1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: Works dot com. This podcast is brought to you by 3 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: Audible dot com, the Internet's leading provider of audio books, 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 1: with more than eighty five thousand downloadable titles across all 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: types of literature. For Stuff to Blow Your Mind, Audible 6 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: is offering a free audiobook to give you a chance 7 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 1: to try out their service. One audiobook to consider is 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Physics of the Future. How Science will shape Human destiny 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: in Our Daily Lives by the Year twenty one hundred, 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: by Michio Kaku. Kaku predicts what the world will be 11 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: like in one hundred years based on interviews from over 12 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: three hundred top scientists from computers to robots to medicine. 13 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: Kaku predicts an exciting future world. That's Physics of the Future, 14 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: How Science will shape Human destiny in Our Daily Lives 15 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,320 Speaker 1: by the year twenty one hundred, available from Audible. To 16 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: try Audible free today and to get a free audiobook 17 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: of your choice, go to Audible podcast dot com slash 18 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: mind stuff. That's Audible podcast dot com slash mind stuff. Hey, 19 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb, and if you're listening to this episode. Uh, 21 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: ideally you're listening to it during a holiday season, when 22 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: this is like a cheerful kind of a thing, like, oh, Santa, 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 1: It's kind of need to do in a Christmas holiday 24 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: kind of episode. That's awesome because if you're listening to 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: it in March, you're kind of like, oh, that's a 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,400 Speaker 1: Christmas episode. Or maybe maybe you even skipped it. I 27 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: don't know. That's the danger of of seasonally specific episodes. 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: But hang on, don't don't leave us if you are 29 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: listening to this in July or something. Because we're getting 30 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: down to some of the the science or the theoretical 31 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: science of Santa Um. We have a really good UM 32 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: article or two on the How Stuff Works website to 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: deal with some of this, like how is Santa Slay 34 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: actually work? And it's kind of fun to to take 35 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: something that's magical like Santa Claus and try and translate 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: into the real world. How would Santa Clause travel around 37 00:02:00,960 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: the world in a single night? How would reindeer pull 38 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: a sway through the air? Um? And one of the 39 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: big ones, how does he make all those toys? Is 40 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: it really dependent on elf labor? Where is there may 41 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: be something a little more science going on. Oh, there's 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: something more science going on for sure, something I dare 43 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: say dangerous going on. Actually that could be menacing, right, 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: we'll talk about it. I mean it depends on how 45 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: do you think Santa Claus is the right person to 46 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: command this technology? Or I mean is it safe? Do 47 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: we need to see about securing it? I see, And 48 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: this is a podcast where we will take you from 49 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: Santa Claus to the singularity. Don't think we could do it, 50 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: but we will from Santa Claus to possibly the end 51 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: of the world in one night. Let's begin. So toys, 52 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: if you've ever watched like an old Timmy Santa Claus 53 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: film that tries to depict a toy manufacturing facility, they're 54 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: generally making really basic toys. Stop animation. Yeah, it's elves 55 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: hammering together some stuff. And sometimes it will be like 56 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: children only get three or four things, like I think 57 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: like in Santa Claus versus the Martians, it's like there's 58 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:06,799 Speaker 1: the doll, there's the bat, there's the you know, it's 59 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of variety. And the Martian kids 60 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: did need it, but need a lot of variety and 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: their gifts. But but ideally, if you had Santa Claus 62 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: actually bringing gifts to everyone, he would need a universal constructor. Yes, 63 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: he would need a device that's not unlike the technology 64 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: see on Star Trek when they when they go in, 65 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: they push a button and any food comes out of 66 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: their little microwave like device. The idea that you would 67 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: have a machine that could build anything, anything from the 68 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: bottom up. Anything dog food turns into a lovely dress, right, yeah, 69 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: in theory, in theory, yeah, they could build everything and 70 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: everything from an iPhone to um, you know, a wooden 71 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: horse too. I don't even like a puppy or something 72 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: becau Santas to Clus sometimes brings live animals and possibly 73 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm just thinking about that. We were talking about stem 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: cell generated organs. Why not a dog son out of 75 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: that um So basically, to me, it's like a computer 76 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: version of a golem, a computer that constructs at our bidding, 77 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: but does so autonomously. And this is this is sort 78 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: of a theoretical framework that we're talking about, but this 79 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: is something that people want and actually, Philip might come 80 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: into play some day in the future, right right, We've 81 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: we've spoken a little in the podcast episodes about nano manufacturing. 82 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,840 Speaker 1: The idea of using nanotechnology and building things from the 83 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: bottom up at the smallest level. The idea that if 84 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: you're if you're building something at a molecular level UM 85 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: or an atomic level, the way nature builds things, then 86 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,040 Speaker 1: you can build anything. Right. So the smaller the particle 87 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: of the more you can manipulate it. Right. It's not 88 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: like what can I build out of wood? It's what 89 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 1: can I build out or even what can I build 90 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 1: out of some sort of iron um molecules. You're dealing 91 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: in an even lower level, like a base level, to 92 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 1: where everything is possible. So this is the universal Constructor. 93 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: John von Neuman, a Hungary Hungarian American mathematician, created a 94 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: proposal centered around the combination of a universal constructor, which 95 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: could make anything it was directed to make, in a 96 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: universal computer which could compute anything it was directed to compute. 97 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: This combination provides immense value because it can be reprogrammed 98 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 1: to make any of a wide range of things UM. 99 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 1: So we could do it um at a very low cost, right, 100 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: which would be really important. And the ability of the 101 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 1: device to make copies of itself, which would just simply 102 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 1: be a means to achieve low cost, rather than the 103 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: ability to continue to to stamp out versions of itself. Right. Yeah, 104 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: that the idea of the self replicating machine especially is 105 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: is kind of like the Holy Grail and the also 106 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: the the ultimate um nightmare, right because but it's like 107 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,720 Speaker 1: the Holy Grail, and that that's what life does. I mean, 108 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,479 Speaker 1: the whole point of life as a as a larger 109 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: concept and not just you know, goldfish or humans or cactus. Uh. 110 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: It self replicates, like its whole programming is to make 111 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 1: more copies of itself and make and make better copies 112 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: of itself that will continue to to copy and copy 113 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: and copy forever. So there's two issues with the universal constructor. 114 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:15,440 Speaker 1: One is the ability to have this sort of like 115 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: uh Ford assembly line on steroids, right, to continue to 116 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: punch out products. But then there's the other idea where 117 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: it has the self replicating technology that it just begins 118 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 1: to make copies of itself. Right, So all of a sudden, 119 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: you have a universe that's populated by universal constructors. Yes, 120 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: and my mom jumping ahead of a bit much, but 121 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: just to see where we're going with this idea, right, 122 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: because that's that's the whole thing. It's like, if you 123 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: had a universal constructor, you can make another universal constructor, right, 124 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: and it would be really helpful if you were going 125 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: to construct something like the Dyce and Fear right, like 126 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: we've talked about. Here's this idea about the Dyson Fear 127 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: sphere that you could you know, harness the energy of 128 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: another planet. You could build another habitat. But you have 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: to have the technology for obviously, you can't send a 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: bunch of people up there to do, you know, to 131 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: Mars for instance, to do this. Yeah, and especially if 132 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: you're talking about building mega structures to be at a 133 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: and a particularly enormous skyscraper, a space elevator, or some 134 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 1: sort of structure that you know, encloses a star or something. 135 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: You're talking about taking the mass of planets and and 136 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: transforming them into say, you know, carbon nanotubes. Yeah. Yeah. 137 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,559 Speaker 1: And actually the person who termed the Santa Class machine, 138 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: physicist Ted Taylor, said, quote, it is possible to imagine 139 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: a machine that could scoop up material rocks from the 140 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: Moon or rocks from asteroids, process them, process them inside, 141 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: and produce just about any product washing machines or teacups 142 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: or automobiles or starships. Once such a machine exists, it 143 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: could gather sunlight and materials that it's sitting on and 144 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: produce on call whatever product anyone wants to name, as 145 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: long as somebody knows how to make it, and those 146 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: instructures can be given to the machine. I think the 147 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: name Santa Class machine for such a device as appropriate. 148 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: Of course you would. So then again we you've got 149 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: the guy John von Newman, and um, he's trying to 150 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: figure out this hypothetical machine, and he succeeds in figuring 151 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 1: it out, at least theoretically, when he found a mathematical 152 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: model for such a machine with very complicated rules on 153 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: a rectangular grid. So it's based on a cellular automating 154 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: a mathematical grid of cells that exists in a finite 155 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: number of states, such as like an on or off position. Okay, 156 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: And it kind of it comes back to, um, I 157 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: think the whole, the whole thing about nanotechnology. The smaller 158 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: the building blocks that you used to create something, the 159 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: more command you have over the properties of the materials 160 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: and then ultimately the things that those materials composed. Right, 161 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,599 Speaker 1: And I mean this has really taken off, especially in 162 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: the seventies. People took this idea and they sort of 163 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 1: ran with the cellular automating, and in fact, there's something 164 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: called Conway's Game of Life, and this was created by 165 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: British mathematician John Horton Conway. He created the game of 166 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: Life based on cellular automating and described by John von Newman. 167 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 1: A person essentially interact with a model by creating an 168 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: initial configuration and then observes how it evolves. So this 169 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: isn't a mathematical model, right, we're talking about computer science here, 170 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: and it's really cool because it's a it's been a 171 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: crowdsourcing sort of event, and people have created some really 172 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: amazing theoretical models based on this. And what he did 173 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,079 Speaker 1: is he took of this idea that von Newman had 174 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: and he created simple rules rather than complex rules. Okay, 175 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: so he made sort of a miniature version of this 176 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: um and the simple rules lead to emergence or self 177 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,840 Speaker 1: organized structures. And current developments have gone so far as 178 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: to create theoretic emulations of computer systems within the confines 179 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: of a life board. And Conway chose his rules really carefully. 180 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: He said, one, there should be no explosive growth in 181 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: these models. Okay, there should exist small initial patterns with 182 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: chaotic unpredictable outcomes, there should be potential for a von 183 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: Newman universal constructor constructor, right, because that's really the that 184 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 1: the end all of what we want to get to here. 185 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 1: The rules should be as simple as possible whilst adhering 186 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: to all the above constraints. Okay, this is a gigantic 187 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: thought experiment that eventually could get us to a place 188 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: where it would have real world applications, right if that. 189 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 1: Cognitive scientist Daniel Dennett has used the analog of Conway's 190 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: life universe extensively to illustrate the possible evolution of complex 191 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: philosophical constructs such as consciousness and free will from um 192 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: this sort of simple set of deterministic physical laws that 193 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: govern our own universe. So there's this idea that that 194 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: free will consciousness was is a self organizing principle based 195 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: on simple rules. Yeah, which means that I don't know, 196 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, to when we talked about this all the time, 197 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,839 Speaker 1: but you know whether or not free will really exists? 198 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: You know, if there's uh these simple rules and only 199 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: certain amount of outcomes are possible, then is it really 200 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: free will? So again, this whole idea of universal constructor 201 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: heavily theoretical, not experiment, but what if it actually did exist? Right, 202 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: what we actually were able to create a machine, not 203 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: in our lifetime. But let's not yet, not even not 204 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: creating this little thing. But uh, but yeah, let's say 205 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: nano technology really takes off next hundred two hundred, three 206 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 1: hundred years, right, we end up the amount of freedom 207 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: that we have over what we can do at the 208 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: nano scale, the things that we can make eventually reaches 209 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: the point where we can make virtually anything out of anything, 210 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 1: out of anything. I mean it all comes to you 211 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: cannot matter, Energy cannot be created or destroyed, be transferred, 212 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: So you would have to have matter to transform into 213 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: more matter. It's kind of like your your dog has 214 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: to eat something if it's gonna go to the bathroom, right, 215 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: I mean, it's just transfer right. Uh. The an atomic 216 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: explosion is is matter becoming energy and all this. So 217 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,439 Speaker 1: for this machine to work, you would have to say, 218 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: all right, Santa, Santa has this right, he needs to 219 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: make toys, So he as the elves bring in, uh, 220 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, a mountain top that they've harvested, and 221 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: they put the mountain top in a machine, and now 222 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: he can transfer x amount of mass into x amount 223 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: of presence the mass, it's the same. I don't know. 224 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: He might lose or gain some energy in there somewhere, 225 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: but I mean, he could even throw an elf in there. 226 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not trying to get dark, but that's 227 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: that's really what we're talking about, a society where every 228 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: raw material could be repurposed to make a finished good 229 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: with this universal constructor. Um, so what happens to big 230 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: box retailers, right, Um? Presumably they become extinct, they become 231 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 1: a small box, they become right that sits right next 232 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: to you, and there's only one small box. Yeah, yeah, um. 233 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: And so it also kind of makes a question about 234 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: what happens to original design or even intellectual property, right 235 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: because what we're talking about here again is a mass production, 236 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: the ability to to take almost anything and not not 237 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: only just feed it to a machine and and get 238 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: something on the other side, but the design elements would 239 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: have to be in there. I can't help but think 240 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: about my Space in this. Remember how I don't know 241 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: if you were ever on on the my Space back 242 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: in the day. Uh No, I wasn't, but I'm familiar 243 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: with it, and I I know that sort of um, well, 244 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: it seems like the web ridden cave that it is now. 245 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: Well you remember how some of you may remember how 246 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: it started off. It seems like all the profiles were 247 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,320 Speaker 1: pretty clean, and I don't know if people were I 248 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: don't remember if people were were given the power to 249 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: change and customize their profiles over time, or if they 250 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: merely learned how to do it, or probably a mix 251 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: of column A and column B. But emergence, Yeah, it 252 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,599 Speaker 1: got to the point where people's profiles were just unreadable 253 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: because they were they were adding like glitter script and 254 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: changing the fonts in the background, and adding animations and 255 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: video and sound, and it just became a nightmare where 256 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 1: you'd like go to somebody's profile and it would like 257 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: crash the computer or or your brain just trying to 258 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: look at it. So, you know, in Facebook has been 259 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: pretty ingenious and is avoided a lot of that by 260 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: limiting what you can do to the profile. It's the 261 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 1: Conway game of life. Yeah, yeah, I mean simple rules rights, 262 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: the constraints are pretty yeah. Yeah. You give people enough 263 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: creative rope there, they are going to hang themselves and 264 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: create an unreadable profile. So the idea of a universal 265 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: constructor where there there is no big box, there's no 266 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: there's basically no mass production anymore. Do people end up 267 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: just having horrible things that they've customed to. You're talking 268 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,600 Speaker 1: about like the Etsy of of I don't mean to 269 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: say that a lot of Etsy is good, but if 270 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: anybody has ever gone to regrets dot com, you know 271 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm talking about, the regret c flacation of 272 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: life itself exactly. It's possible there could be like, uh, 273 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: you know, pink boa is coming. I don't know where 274 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: pink Boas came from, but generally they're not I think 275 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: that they were Jesse Ventura. Yeah, yeah, nice, you get 276 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: your wrestling thing in there. But so anyway, yeah, I 277 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: mean there's this idea that there could be a lot 278 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 1: of bad design, and only that that you would spend 279 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: your life feeding the machine with whatever resource you had. 280 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: And then here's where things get particularly dark. If the 281 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: machines start to self replicate, which at point, at that 282 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: point they'd be able to write, okay, because we're talking 283 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: in the far far away land. The mission of a 284 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: self replicating robot would be, you know, to continue to 285 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: create versions of itself, and then you need more energy 286 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: and matter to do this because we end up in 287 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: like a matter economy or a mass economy. Yes, yes, yeah, 288 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: I mean you know, currency is now dirt or or 289 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: whatever material you can find. And not only that, you 290 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: have a population that could be, you know, much more 291 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 1: machine dominated than human dominated. And that's where the singularity 292 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: always comes in. Right, So I mean basically, what I'm 293 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: talking about here is the armageddon that could be ushered 294 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: in by machines that are just gobbling up all the resources, 295 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: including us. Right, So let's go back to the North Pole. 296 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 1: You're at Senta's. You're trying to take it to the 297 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: nice place again. No, well we're gonna We're gonna go 298 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: through the nice place to the darkness. That's all right. 299 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: So it's Santa's laboratory, his workshop. However, you want to 300 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: look at it, because all it has in it is 301 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: that universal manufacturing device. So this nano manufacturing wonder machine. 302 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: And Santa has taken off early because he's a little tired, 303 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: and he's left one elf in charge. And the elf 304 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: h does something wrong with the settings, like he he 305 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: accidentally flips it over, or he spills a little eggnog 306 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: on the keyboard and it goes hey wire. So suddenly 307 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: it's making a copy of itself. That is, that suddenly 308 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: makes a copy of itself, and it's making a copy 309 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 1: of itself, and it's self replicating without end. It's like 310 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: a it's like a cancer cell, except it's transferring matter. 311 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 1: And suddenly elves are disappearing right and left is they're 312 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: sucked into the machine. Then the then it's like ice 313 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: and polar bears, and then where does it end. We 314 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: end up with this gray goose scenario. Right, this is 315 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: the nano apocalypse, the idea that you could create nano 316 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: machines or some sort of nano manufacturing device that ends 317 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: up transforming all available matter into itself to where it's 318 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: just a nothing but nano machines everywhere. It's just at 319 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: what looks like gray goo covering the entire earth, and 320 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: eventually is the earth well. And that's the interesting part 321 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: of it, that's right, is that there's this ability to imitate. 322 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: So it's very possible that all of a sudden you 323 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: have machines that are able to imitate us, imitate uh, flora, fauna. 324 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: And you know what I'm saying, it's not just replacing 325 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: of the human being or even using humans as um 326 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: as fuel, but but just sort of taking over the 327 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: earth and in as many ways as possible. Well, indeed, 328 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: you can go crazy on this and say that this 329 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: apocalyptic Christmas that we're describing actually happened millions of years ago, 330 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: and then after the gray goose scenario occurred, the gray 331 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: go like reformed itself into some approximation of century life. Alright, kids, 332 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: I know you're you're shaking your heads. Gonna happen, But 333 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 1: we were talking about, you know, nanotechnology. We're talking about 334 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: nano carbon tubes that are a hundred times stronger than 335 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: steel and just tinier than a thread of hair. Yeah, 336 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: the seeds have already been planted. It's just a question 337 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 1: of how big will the nano tree grow and will 338 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: it consume her happy holidays? All right, well, let's uh, 339 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: let's call the robot over here. Surely we have time 340 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: for a quick quick listener mail from the mail folder. 341 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: You won't call the robot, Arnie William I'm still warming 342 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: up to the idea that this robot as a person. 343 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: So this one says, dear Santa. Oh, this is a 344 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: Santa letter. I mean, these are all Santa letters. Wait 345 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: and take this back, Arnie. All right, now, okay, now 346 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: I have the right folder. Here's one from Robert different 347 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,239 Speaker 1: Robert Obviously it's not not me, Um, Robert him, hear me, Hi, 348 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: Robert new Julie. I'm sitting in my car right now. 349 00:18:54,359 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: Don't panic. I got to work early. I love the podcast, 350 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: and I'm currently listening to the Quest for Cyber Immortality. 351 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:01,119 Speaker 1: And I want to let you know that I have 352 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: seen this concept twice in fiction, both times to very 353 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: creepy effect. The first example is in the Orson Scott 354 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 1: Card novel Speaker of the Debt, which I actually just 355 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,639 Speaker 1: finally bought that the other day for like a nickel. 356 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: I love used bookstores. Um. In this story, the protagonist 357 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,760 Speaker 1: goes through the universe, effectively living hundreds of years via 358 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: relativistic travel, and seeks out the dead whose memory is 359 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: being perverted. He does he does extensive research with the 360 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: help of a galaxy spanning AI, and then performs the 361 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: ceremony in which he represents the dead person as accurately 362 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: and fairly as possible. The second example is from Doctor Who, 363 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:37,919 Speaker 1: Let's be honest, what haven't they done anyway? In the 364 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 1: episode Forest of the Dead, astronauts consciousnesses are briefly preserved 365 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 1: in their communications equipment, a phenomenon called ghosting. I find 366 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: it interesting that there are these two opposite ideas about memory, 367 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: the terrifyingly tragic ghosting and the catharsis of speaking for 368 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: the debt. They make me wonder whether any middle ground 369 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: is possible there. Thanks for reading, and if you use 370 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,040 Speaker 1: this in the show, give a shout out to my 371 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 1: friend Matt for recommending the podcast. Thanks, and indeed thanks 372 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,880 Speaker 1: Matt for turning your friends onto our podcast. So word 373 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: of mouth, that's the big way it spreads, like like nanoparticles, 374 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: self replicating or viruses. Yeah. So if you have some 375 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: holiday cheer you would like to share with us, or 376 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: something about the end of the world, or just do 377 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 1: some general ramblings about I mean with the big thing 378 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: about our I love about our podcast is the idea 379 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 1: that gets people's brains moving and gets people thinking about 380 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: the philosophical or futuristic implications on the subject. So which 381 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: gets us percolating. Yeah, yeah, so share it with us. 382 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook as stuff to Blow 383 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: the Mind, and our handle on Twitter is blow the Mind. 384 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: And you can always write a letter to Santa, send 385 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: it to us and we'll afford it on And you 386 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,680 Speaker 1: can do that at below the Mind at how staf 387 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: works dot com. 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