WEBVTT - Could New Rocket Launch Sites Fuel Africa’s Space Race? 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:08.280 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, Radio News four. 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:14.320 Three two, fund Yeer, Big Mission and. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:19.480 Lita Space is big business. 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:21.160 From satellites to tourism. 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.439 The commercial space sector has been having a moment for 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.760 the past few years in African countries went in on 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.160 the investments. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:34.040 As the South African National Space Agency SANSA takes giant strides. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:37.600 As we transform from a resource bound nation to a 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:44.320 knowledge based economy serving humanity without borders, SANSA envisions South 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:46.159 Africa leading space science. 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.440 A new spaceport in Somalia funded by the Turkish government 0:00:50.720 --> 0:00:54.160 could be the latest contribution to the continent's twenty billion 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.320 dollar space sector, But will this one actually make it 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:00.440 to launch Nigerians? 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:05.320 Is we count down to the launch of Nigeria's communication 0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:16.920 on satellite Hi four three two one zero. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:18.319 On today's Next Africa Podcast? 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:22.400 Will space ever be the future technology investment Africa needs? 0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:26.040 Or more big promises that end up fizzling out with 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:31.200 less of a bang and more of a whimper. I'm 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.520 Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.280 you one story each week from the continent driving the 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:43.240 future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.080 Bruce Einhorn is a Bloomberg reporter who covers all things space, 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:52.240 and he's joining us today alongside technology reporter Loney Prinzlu. 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:55.240 Hello to you both, Thank you so much for joining us. 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:55.720 So. 0:01:55.920 --> 0:01:59.400 As revealed on Bloomberg News earlier this week, the Turkish 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:02.800 government is in talks with Somalia to build a new 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:07.320 space facility, both for Turkey's versioning space program as well 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:12.480 as for testing ballistic missiles. Bloomberg reporter Salchen Hacho Glu 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:14.760 actually told us what's being planned. 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:16.040 Based on his reporting. 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.760 Turkey is a nascent space program and needs a spaceport 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:24.440 to be able to test fire the rockets. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:25.320 That it's developing. 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:28.640 They have been looking for a country closs the Equator, 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:32.679 and they have decided to hold talks with Somalia, which 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.160 is in advanced stage, to be able to build a 0:02:36.200 --> 0:02:39.920 spaceport and test fire rockets that they are going to 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:44.960 send to space. However, the other side of the story 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:50.359 is Turkey has also developing ballistic missile program and they 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.480 also want to use this site to test fire ballistic 0:02:54.560 --> 0:02:59.760 missiles that they are not able to test in Turkey. 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:03.320 Of short, Turkey they need a bigger space to be 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:07.480 able to test long range missiles. Turkey and Somalia has 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.480 a defense industry cooperation agreement. 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.000 Turkyo is already giving a lot. 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:18.280 To Somalia from financial aids to building schools providing security, 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.480 and in July both countries agreed to expand the defense 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.320 cooperation between them. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.040 Bruce, Why is Africa attractive for space launches? Why are 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:34.080 we seeing Turkey looking to Somalia of all places for 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:35.320 launch sites? 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:40.520 Jen There are some important geographic advantages that Africa offers 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:43.840 for anybody who wants to launch rockets. It's helpful if 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:48.880 you're launching a rocket into geostationary orbit. They're called geostationary 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.800 because they travel in space, but they're always over the 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.800 same place on the Earth. And if you're over the equator, 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:59.600 that gives you the broadest range of coverage for your satellite. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.600 If you can launch your rocket near the equator, then 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.520 it makes it much easier to put your satellite into 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:12.360 orbit over the equator. Another advantage to launching in say Somalia, 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:17.400 potentially would be that it's right along the Indian Ocean, 0:04:17.560 --> 0:04:20.520 so you can launch your rocket along the ocean and 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.640 there's quite a big distance to go in the ocean 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.640 before you get to land, and so you have less 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.040 reason to worry about the neighbors being upset about anything 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.160 from your rocket potentially falling on them. 0:04:33.360 --> 0:04:35.760 And Bruce, this is your beat, so you cover this 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.840 day and day out. Maybe you can tell us then 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:39.880 a bit about some of the other proposals that we've 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.840 seen similar to this, because there is some reporting out 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:47.480 about how Jibouti was also talking about building its own spaceport. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.000 How does this compare to that plan? 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.839 The Djibouti example is a very good one because it 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.800 shows just how there's potential, but also there's a lot 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:04.480 of pitfalls. So in Earl three, a Chinese company announced 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:08.000 that it had signed an MoU, a memorandum of understanding 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:13.000 with Jibouti to build a spaceport, really big facility. The 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.159 investment was going to be about a billion dollars. Djibouti, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.160 like Somalia, right there close to the equator, so there 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:23.479 are some big advantages to launching from there. That deal 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:28.040 never really got beyond the MoU phase and fizzled. So 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:33.160 that does indicate that while we should be really interested 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.480 in saying what Turkey's thinking, about for Somalia. It's certainly 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:39.360 not a done deal. We've seen before that it's possible 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.719 that something gets announced and then doesn't happen. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.560 Promise and pitfalls. That's a good way of describing it. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.880 I mean, LONEI jump in here because maybe you can 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.760 talk about Africa space industry then as a whole, because 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.120 these are just two examples potentially of the growing interests 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:58.000 really in getting a lot of African countries involved. But 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:02.080 what have we seen from the sector up until this point. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:07.120 Jane I would say not too many African countries are 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:11.960 highly active. The bigger ones that we're seeing as South Africa, 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:16.720 they are busy building out a three billion dollar telescope 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.880 and that will be actually the biggest radio telescope in 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:20.640 the world. 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:21.359 Once it's done. 0:06:21.600 --> 0:06:25.680 Then in Nigeria they do have a launching facility. In 0:06:25.920 --> 0:06:29.640 Algeria they have a launching facility that they've inherited from 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:34.440 the French. Altogether, there's about eleven launching facilities in Africa, 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.680 but really only about three to five of those get 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:43.960 used satellites. We've seen about fifty eight or so going 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.080 into space by the bigger countries. 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.919 There's also a third spaceport in Eastern Africa that's really interesting, 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:53.800 which is an Italian one which was established back in 0:06:53.839 --> 0:06:56.839 the nineteen sixties that has been used several times for 0:06:56.960 --> 0:07:00.040 launches over the years, starting in nineteen sixty seven and 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.719 was the first satellite launched from there. All the way 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.839 through the late nineteen eighties. Altogether, there were twenty missions 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:11.040 twenty orbital missions from lunch from there. They're still operational there. 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.960 It's called the Luigi Broglio Malindi Space Center in Kenya. 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:15.520 What a name. 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.000 That example just goes to show Bruce that this is 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.560 definitely not new to the continent by any means. 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:24.120 And as Loni was just pointing. 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.120 Out, there are projects that have been put in place. 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:30.520 But if it is potentially a twenty billion dollar industry, 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:34.320 I mean, why haven't we seen this really take off 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:36.880 in the way that it should on the continent. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.000 There are a couple of reasons that things haven't really 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.480 developed at the pace that maybe some people would like 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:46.560 to see. There are some security issues in places like Somalia, 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.760 in places like Jibouti, there are also issues related to 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:53.960 technology exports. So if you have a satellite that you 0:07:53.960 --> 0:07:57.440 want to launch on a rocket, there's a good chance 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.800 that you've got American technology on your satellite, American technology 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:04.600 in your rocket, and the United States has pretty strict 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:08.720 rules when it comes to the export of technology that 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.840 has the potential to be used in missofs, so military 0:08:13.880 --> 0:08:18.280 applications for clear reasons are things that the United States 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:22.440 is concerned about, and so most rockets that are launched. 0:08:22.440 --> 0:08:25.560 Most satellites that go into orbit launch from the United 0:08:25.600 --> 0:08:29.200 States from Florida, from Cape Canaveral or from California at 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.559 van Berg Base. There are other places that rockets get 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.480 most so you can launch from French Guyana, say, Chinese 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:38.760 rockets launch from China, Russian rockets launch from Russia or 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.680 from Kazakhstan. There are also some rockets that get launched 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.760 from New Zealand, but by and large, with the exception 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:49.120 of Russian and Chinese rockets, other rockets get launched from 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:52.360 either the US or from US allies, and some of 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:55.520 those countries have agreements with the United States that allow 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.120 for the export of some of this restricted technology. Without 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:04.200 that kind of permission, it's difficult to build the launch industry, 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:06.520 and African countries at the moment just don't have it. 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:08.760 And stick with US, Bruce and Loni. 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.080 When we come back, we'll look at the role African 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.920 countries are playing in those big diplomatic battles over space expiration. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:24.160 We'll be right back. Welcome back. 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.680 Today, we're talking space and the role African countries could 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.600 potentially play in the new space race. 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.440 Bruce. Space has, of course, as. 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:36.959 Many of us know, been a battle between superpowers for decades. 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.000 In the fifties and sixties, it. 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:43.000 Was Russia and the US, but now China is a 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.480 big rival in this whole space race. How would you 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:50.600 describe the space diplomacy and what we're seeing right now 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:51.600 in twenty twenty four. 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:54.760 As you point out, there is a big competition between 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.760 the United States and China in space, and there is 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:01.240 a role that Africa plays in that both the US 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.120 and China want to send astronauts to the Moon. No 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:06.679 people have been on the Moon since the last Apollo astronauts, 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:10.120 and in the early nineteen seventies, the Americans have the 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:13.600 Artemis program that is trying to get astronauts back to 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.920 the Moon within a few years. China wants to get 0:10:16.000 --> 0:10:18.800 its astronauts to the Moon for the first time by 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.480 the end of the decade. Longer term, the Chinese have 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.520 a project that they initially launched with Russia a few 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.320 years ago. They want to build a research station at 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.280 the south pole of the Moon, and they're trying to 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:33.600 get countries to sign up and say we support that. Meanwhile, 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.680 the Americans have initiative of their own as part of 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:40.000 the Artemis program. Related to that, there's something called the 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.480 Artemis Accords, which is an agreement among the United States 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:48.679 and like minded countries about how activity on the Moon 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.520 and elsewhere in space will be conducted going forward to 0:10:52.520 --> 0:10:55.760 the United States has gotten about forty plus countries to 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:59.640 sign up for that, some African countries. Nigeria is one 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:01.880 and Gola is another. I think there may be a 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.120 few others. China got a later start compared to the 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.400 Americans in trying to win diplomatic allies for its vision, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:13.000 but the Chinese have had some success. Most notably recently 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:17.360 was Senegal signing up saying that it was supporting this 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:21.160 Chinese project for the lunar south Pole. So at the moment, 0:11:21.240 --> 0:11:24.320 there are about a dozen countries that have signed up 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.559 for China's project, as opposed to forty plus for the US. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:29.840 But there are a lot of countries in Africa, so 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:32.680 there's a lot of opportunity for both sides to try 0:11:32.720 --> 0:11:36.520 to win support from African countries. It's important not just 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.480 for what happens in space, but also for the rivalry 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.160 between the two countries here. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:45.240 On I wonder Loney, considering the space race that is 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.719 going on in space and also on the ground here. 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:50.559 I mean, what's the outlook you think for the industry 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.840 as a whole on the continent, especially if you consider 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.240 that investment gap that you were talking about. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.440 Look, a lot of it is in the satellite space 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.960 and Tina Cums's very big in Africa. I think there's 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:05.559 a plan to launch another one hundred and teen satellites 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:10.000 for and ground observation and all of that. There's also 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.199 a push by Rwanda. There's fifty four countries in Africa 0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:17.160 and they all follow their own route, so there isn't 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:22.199 really lack a considered effort or one plan, but there's definitely, 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.240 as we said, there's definitely a push to do more. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:27.719 And Bruce, I just wanted to finish with you on 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.880 your outlook for the business of space, considering you have 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.559 the newsletter titled that what's your outlook for the next 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.360 few years, especially considering what is going on on the 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:40.439 ground here on Earth, how does this play out over 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.600 the next few years, What should we be watching for 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.040 and what is Africa's role in that. 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.480 I think Africa has a really big role to play 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:52.199 in the years to come, because access to space is 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.080 becoming so much more affordable as we have more and 0:12:56.160 --> 0:13:00.280 more companies that are launching rockets. So as well known 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.960 example of course is SpaceX Elon Musk Company and they're 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.040 on track to launch like well over one hundred rockets 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.600 this year. And because companies are now offering a lot 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:16.120 more rides to space, space is becoming less expensive. Also, 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.959 satellites have become much smaller, and so a lot more 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.679 countries see opportunities for themselves to actually have their own 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:28.400 satellites in space. And so there are many African countries 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.160 that have already started doing that, but there are a 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.560 lot of other African countries that haven't gotten there yet. 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.200 So in the years ahead, there will be a lot 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:39.800 more countries in Africa that want to establish a presence 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.480 for themselves in orbit. And there will be a lot 0:13:42.480 --> 0:13:46.480 of companies in the United States and Europe, in Asia, 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:49.520 all around the world that want to help African countries do. 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.040 Those sounds like I could get very crowded, but still 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.200 very interesting to follow. Bruce and Lonie, thank you so 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.000 much for joining us on the podcast today. 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.280 I really appreciate your insights. 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.960 And you can read all the latest coverage of space 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.480 on Bloomberg News. Plus you can sign up for Bruce's 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:09.280 Business of Space newsletter. So similar to what we are 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:12.720 seeing on Earth, African nations clearly have an opportunity to 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:17.280 play a role in industries traditionally dominated by global powers, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:22.040 But ultimately what guides their participation in this new space 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:25.320 race may be less about the actual race into orbit 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:33.600 and more about their needs on the ground. This program 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.960 was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.640 review the show wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.280 Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.