Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, Radio News four.
Speaker 2: Three two, fund Yeer, Big Mission and.
Speaker 3: Lita Space is big business.
Speaker 2: From satellites to tourism.
Speaker 3: The commercial space sector has been having a moment for
Speaker 3: the past few years in African countries went in on
Speaker 3: the investments.
Speaker 1: As the South African National Space Agency SANSA takes giant strides.
Speaker 1: As we transform from a resource bound nation to a
Speaker 1: knowledge based economy serving humanity without borders, SANSA envisions South
Speaker 1: Africa leading space science.
Speaker 3: A new spaceport in Somalia funded by the Turkish government
Speaker 3: could be the latest contribution to the continent's twenty billion
Speaker 3: dollar space sector, But will this one actually make it
Speaker 3: to launch Nigerians?
Speaker 4: Is we count down to the launch of Nigeria's communication
Speaker 4: on satellite Hi four three two one zero.
Speaker 2: On today's Next Africa Podcast?
Speaker 3: Will space ever be the future technology investment Africa needs?
Speaker 3: Or more big promises that end up fizzling out with
Speaker 3: less of a bang and more of a whimper. I'm
Speaker 3: Jennifer's Abasaja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing
Speaker 3: you one story each week from the continent driving the
Speaker 3: future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide.
Speaker 3: Bruce Einhorn is a Bloomberg reporter who covers all things space,
Speaker 3: and he's joining us today alongside technology reporter Loney Prinzlu.
Speaker 2: Hello to you both, Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 3: As revealed on Bloomberg News earlier this week, the Turkish
Speaker 3: government is in talks with Somalia to build a new
Speaker 3: space facility, both for Turkey's versioning space program as well
Speaker 3: as for testing ballistic missiles. Bloomberg reporter Salchen Hacho Glu
Speaker 3: actually told us what's being planned.
Speaker 2: Based on his reporting.
Speaker 6: Turkey is a nascent space program and needs a spaceport
Speaker 6: to be able to test fire the rockets.
Speaker 2: That it's developing.
Speaker 6: They have been looking for a country closs the Equator,
Speaker 6: and they have decided to hold talks with Somalia, which
Speaker 6: is in advanced stage, to be able to build a
Speaker 6: spaceport and test fire rockets that they are going to
Speaker 6: send to space. However, the other side of the story
Speaker 6: is Turkey has also developing ballistic missile program and they
Speaker 6: also want to use this site to test fire ballistic
Speaker 6: missiles that they are not able to test in Turkey.
Speaker 6: Of short, Turkey they need a bigger space to be
Speaker 6: able to test long range missiles. Turkey and Somalia has
Speaker 6: a defense industry cooperation agreement.
Speaker 2: Turkyo is already giving a lot.
Speaker 6: To Somalia from financial aids to building schools providing security,
Speaker 6: and in July both countries agreed to expand the defense
Speaker 6: cooperation between them.
Speaker 3: Bruce, Why is Africa attractive for space launches? Why are
Speaker 3: we seeing Turkey looking to Somalia of all places for
Speaker 3: launch sites?
Speaker 7: Jen There are some important geographic advantages that Africa offers
Speaker 7: for anybody who wants to launch rockets. It's helpful if
Speaker 7: you're launching a rocket into geostationary orbit. They're called geostationary
Speaker 7: because they travel in space, but they're always over the
Speaker 7: same place on the Earth. And if you're over the equator,
Speaker 7: that gives you the broadest range of coverage for your satellite.
Speaker 7: If you can launch your rocket near the equator, then
Speaker 7: it makes it much easier to put your satellite into
Speaker 7: orbit over the equator. Another advantage to launching in say Somalia,
Speaker 7: potentially would be that it's right along the Indian Ocean,
Speaker 7: so you can launch your rocket along the ocean and
Speaker 7: there's quite a big distance to go in the ocean
Speaker 7: before you get to land, and so you have less
Speaker 7: reason to worry about the neighbors being upset about anything
Speaker 7: from your rocket potentially falling on them.
Speaker 3: And Bruce, this is your beat, so you cover this
Speaker 3: day and day out. Maybe you can tell us then
Speaker 3: a bit about some of the other proposals that we've
Speaker 3: seen similar to this, because there is some reporting out
Speaker 3: about how Jibouti was also talking about building its own spaceport.
Speaker 2: How does this compare to that plan?
Speaker 7: The Djibouti example is a very good one because it
Speaker 7: shows just how there's potential, but also there's a lot
Speaker 7: of pitfalls. So in Earl three, a Chinese company announced
Speaker 7: that it had signed an MoU, a memorandum of understanding
Speaker 7: with Jibouti to build a spaceport, really big facility. The
Speaker 7: investment was going to be about a billion dollars. Djibouti,
Speaker 7: like Somalia, right there close to the equator, so there
Speaker 7: are some big advantages to launching from there. That deal
Speaker 7: never really got beyond the MoU phase and fizzled. So
Speaker 7: that does indicate that while we should be really interested
Speaker 7: in saying what Turkey's thinking, about for Somalia. It's certainly
Speaker 7: not a done deal. We've seen before that it's possible
Speaker 7: that something gets announced and then doesn't happen.
Speaker 3: Promise and pitfalls. That's a good way of describing it.
Speaker 3: I mean, LONEI jump in here because maybe you can
Speaker 3: talk about Africa space industry then as a whole, because
Speaker 3: these are just two examples potentially of the growing interests
Speaker 3: really in getting a lot of African countries involved. But
Speaker 3: what have we seen from the sector up until this point.
Speaker 5: Jane I would say not too many African countries are
Speaker 5: highly active. The bigger ones that we're seeing as South Africa,
Speaker 5: they are busy building out a three billion dollar telescope
Speaker 5: and that will be actually the biggest radio telescope in
Speaker 5: the world.
Speaker 2: Once it's done.
Speaker 5: Then in Nigeria they do have a launching facility. In
Speaker 5: Algeria they have a launching facility that they've inherited from
Speaker 5: the French. Altogether, there's about eleven launching facilities in Africa,
Speaker 5: but really only about three to five of those get
Speaker 5: used satellites. We've seen about fifty eight or so going
Speaker 5: into space by the bigger countries.
Speaker 7: There's also a third spaceport in Eastern Africa that's really interesting,
Speaker 7: which is an Italian one which was established back in
Speaker 7: the nineteen sixties that has been used several times for
Speaker 7: launches over the years, starting in nineteen sixty seven and
Speaker 7: was the first satellite launched from there. All the way
Speaker 7: through the late nineteen eighties. Altogether, there were twenty missions
Speaker 7: twenty orbital missions from lunch from there. They're still operational there.
Speaker 7: It's called the Luigi Broglio Malindi Space Center in Kenya.
Speaker 2: What a name.
Speaker 3: That example just goes to show Bruce that this is
Speaker 3: definitely not new to the continent by any means.
Speaker 2: And as Loni was just pointing.
Speaker 3: Out, there are projects that have been put in place.
Speaker 3: But if it is potentially a twenty billion dollar industry,
Speaker 3: I mean, why haven't we seen this really take off
Speaker 3: in the way that it should on the continent.
Speaker 7: There are a couple of reasons that things haven't really
Speaker 7: developed at the pace that maybe some people would like
Speaker 7: to see. There are some security issues in places like Somalia,
Speaker 7: in places like Jibouti, there are also issues related to
Speaker 7: technology exports. So if you have a satellite that you
Speaker 7: want to launch on a rocket, there's a good chance
Speaker 7: that you've got American technology on your satellite, American technology
Speaker 7: in your rocket, and the United States has pretty strict
Speaker 7: rules when it comes to the export of technology that
Speaker 7: has the potential to be used in missofs, so military
Speaker 7: applications for clear reasons are things that the United States
Speaker 7: is concerned about, and so most rockets that are launched.
Speaker 7: Most satellites that go into orbit launch from the United
Speaker 7: States from Florida, from Cape Canaveral or from California at
Speaker 7: van Berg Base. There are other places that rockets get
Speaker 7: most so you can launch from French Guyana, say, Chinese
Speaker 7: rockets launch from China, Russian rockets launch from Russia or
Speaker 7: from Kazakhstan. There are also some rockets that get launched
Speaker 7: from New Zealand, but by and large, with the exception
Speaker 7: of Russian and Chinese rockets, other rockets get launched from
Speaker 7: either the US or from US allies, and some of
Speaker 7: those countries have agreements with the United States that allow
Speaker 7: for the export of some of this restricted technology. Without
Speaker 7: that kind of permission, it's difficult to build the launch industry,
Speaker 7: and African countries at the moment just don't have it.
Speaker 2: And stick with US, Bruce and Loni.
Speaker 3: When we come back, we'll look at the role African
Speaker 3: countries are playing in those big diplomatic battles over space expiration.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back. Welcome back.
Speaker 3: Today, we're talking space and the role African countries could
Speaker 3: potentially play in the new space race.
Speaker 2: Bruce. Space has, of course, as.
Speaker 3: Many of us know, been a battle between superpowers for decades.
Speaker 2: In the fifties and sixties, it.
Speaker 3: Was Russia and the US, but now China is a
Speaker 3: big rival in this whole space race. How would you
Speaker 3: describe the space diplomacy and what we're seeing right now
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four.
Speaker 7: As you point out, there is a big competition between
Speaker 7: the United States and China in space, and there is
Speaker 7: a role that Africa plays in that both the US
Speaker 7: and China want to send astronauts to the Moon. No
Speaker 7: people have been on the Moon since the last Apollo astronauts,
Speaker 7: and in the early nineteen seventies, the Americans have the
Speaker 7: Artemis program that is trying to get astronauts back to
Speaker 7: the Moon within a few years. China wants to get
Speaker 7: its astronauts to the Moon for the first time by
Speaker 7: the end of the decade. Longer term, the Chinese have
Speaker 7: a project that they initially launched with Russia a few
Speaker 7: years ago. They want to build a research station at
Speaker 7: the south pole of the Moon, and they're trying to
Speaker 7: get countries to sign up and say we support that. Meanwhile,
Speaker 7: the Americans have initiative of their own as part of
Speaker 7: the Artemis program. Related to that, there's something called the
Speaker 7: Artemis Accords, which is an agreement among the United States
Speaker 7: and like minded countries about how activity on the Moon
Speaker 7: and elsewhere in space will be conducted going forward to
Speaker 7: the United States has gotten about forty plus countries to
Speaker 7: sign up for that, some African countries. Nigeria is one
Speaker 7: and Gola is another. I think there may be a
Speaker 7: few others. China got a later start compared to the
Speaker 7: Americans in trying to win diplomatic allies for its vision,
Speaker 7: but the Chinese have had some success. Most notably recently
Speaker 7: was Senegal signing up saying that it was supporting this
Speaker 7: Chinese project for the lunar south Pole. So at the moment,
Speaker 7: there are about a dozen countries that have signed up
Speaker 7: for China's project, as opposed to forty plus for the US.
Speaker 7: But there are a lot of countries in Africa, so
Speaker 7: there's a lot of opportunity for both sides to try
Speaker 7: to win support from African countries. It's important not just
Speaker 7: for what happens in space, but also for the rivalry
Speaker 7: between the two countries here.
Speaker 3: On I wonder Loney, considering the space race that is
Speaker 3: going on in space and also on the ground here.
Speaker 3: I mean, what's the outlook you think for the industry
Speaker 3: as a whole on the continent, especially if you consider
Speaker 3: that investment gap that you were talking about.
Speaker 5: Look, a lot of it is in the satellite space
Speaker 5: and Tina Cums's very big in Africa. I think there's
Speaker 5: a plan to launch another one hundred and teen satellites
Speaker 5: for and ground observation and all of that. There's also
Speaker 5: a push by Rwanda. There's fifty four countries in Africa
Speaker 5: and they all follow their own route, so there isn't
Speaker 5: really lack a considered effort or one plan, but there's definitely,
Speaker 5: as we said, there's definitely a push to do more.
Speaker 3: And Bruce, I just wanted to finish with you on
Speaker 3: your outlook for the business of space, considering you have
Speaker 3: the newsletter titled that what's your outlook for the next
Speaker 3: few years, especially considering what is going on on the
Speaker 3: ground here on Earth, how does this play out over
Speaker 3: the next few years, What should we be watching for
Speaker 3: and what is Africa's role in that.
Speaker 7: I think Africa has a really big role to play
Speaker 7: in the years to come, because access to space is
Speaker 7: becoming so much more affordable as we have more and
Speaker 7: more companies that are launching rockets. So as well known
Speaker 7: example of course is SpaceX Elon Musk Company and they're
Speaker 7: on track to launch like well over one hundred rockets
Speaker 7: this year. And because companies are now offering a lot
Speaker 7: more rides to space, space is becoming less expensive. Also,
Speaker 7: satellites have become much smaller, and so a lot more
Speaker 7: countries see opportunities for themselves to actually have their own
Speaker 7: satellites in space. And so there are many African countries
Speaker 7: that have already started doing that, but there are a
Speaker 7: lot of other African countries that haven't gotten there yet.
Speaker 7: So in the years ahead, there will be a lot
Speaker 7: more countries in Africa that want to establish a presence
Speaker 7: for themselves in orbit. And there will be a lot
Speaker 7: of companies in the United States and Europe, in Asia,
Speaker 7: all around the world that want to help African countries do.
Speaker 3: Those sounds like I could get very crowded, but still
Speaker 3: very interesting to follow. Bruce and Lonie, thank you so
Speaker 3: much for joining us on the podcast today.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate your insights.
Speaker 3: And you can read all the latest coverage of space
Speaker 3: on Bloomberg News. Plus you can sign up for Bruce's
Speaker 3: Business of Space newsletter. So similar to what we are
Speaker 3: seeing on Earth, African nations clearly have an opportunity to
Speaker 3: play a role in industries traditionally dominated by global powers,
Speaker 3: But ultimately what guides their participation in this new space
Speaker 3: race may be less about the actual race into orbit
Speaker 3: and more about their needs on the ground. This program
Speaker 3: was produced by Adrian Bradley. Don't forget to follow and
Speaker 3: review the show wherever you usually get your podcasts. I'm
Speaker 3: Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.