WEBVTT - Look Ma, No Wires!

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to

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<v Speaker 1>Forward Thinking. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking,

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast that looks at the future and says, here

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<v Speaker 1>is a mind that can see across space. I'm Jonathan Strickland,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Lauren Vocab, and I'm Joe McCormick. And today we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna talk about power and wirelessly transmitting power across vast

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<v Speaker 1>distances as a means of being able to achieve things

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<v Speaker 1>that so far seem unachievable. I don't want to be disrespectful,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think you misspoke. It sounded like you said wirelessly. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess you meant like, uh, some other word. You mean,

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<v Speaker 1>like wired power. Yeah. Sure, I can see why you

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<v Speaker 1>would say that, seeing is how our infrastructure is heavily

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<v Speaker 1>based around wired power. Joe, But nay, say I to you.

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<v Speaker 1>I am talking wireless, as in, get that wire that

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<v Speaker 1>transmits said power to your house and throw it out

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<v Speaker 1>the door, for you shall need it no longer. So

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<v Speaker 1>you're talking lightning. I don't know what is this. Look.

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<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you lightning harnessing the energy of the heavens

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<v Speaker 1>themselves is going to make my cell phone never run

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<v Speaker 1>out of battery. Okay, you know, broadly speaking, yes, uh no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we're gonna talk about wireless power because it is. Yes, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so not thor but Tesla. Okay, all right, let's let's

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<v Speaker 1>ease into this first before we before we get into

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<v Speaker 1>the Tesla discussion. And don't worry, folks, there will be

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<v Speaker 1>one I want to this actually still has to do

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<v Speaker 1>with Tesla. Tesla was one of the minds working on

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<v Speaker 1>making alternating current a workable, uh feasible means of transmitting

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<v Speaker 1>electricity as opposed to direct current. Right, So, like the

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<v Speaker 1>grid electricity that you get out of your wall socket

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<v Speaker 1>is going to be alterning eating current, but to use

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<v Speaker 1>it in a lot of things, you need to translate

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<v Speaker 1>it to direct current. So here's the here's the reason

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<v Speaker 1>why there's alternating current in the first place, because I

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<v Speaker 1>know there are a lot of people who get confused

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<v Speaker 1>about this. Back in the day, back when electricity was

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<v Speaker 1>first starting to be understood and uh and and harnessed

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<v Speaker 1>in a usable way, there was a lot of discussion

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<v Speaker 1>about what's the best way to deliver electricity from the

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<v Speaker 1>place where you generate it to the place where you

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<v Speaker 1>need it. Direct current is one way. This is the

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<v Speaker 1>way that batteries work. Right. The current flows in one direction.

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<v Speaker 1>It goes from the negative terminal to the positive terminal.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how electricity works with direct current. So you're anything

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<v Speaker 1>that's ronning on a fuel cell or a battery, that's

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<v Speaker 1>that's how it goes. Alternating current the essentially you get

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<v Speaker 1>it switching so that the current flows in two different directions.

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<v Speaker 1>First one direction than the other. Its cycles. Okay, it alternates. Uh. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason why alternating current is the is used in

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<v Speaker 1>transmission is because if you wanted to transmit direct current

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<v Speaker 1>and across vast distances, you had to use really high voltage,

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<v Speaker 1>which back in the day was not really easy to do. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it would require a lot of energy, it wasn't very efficient,

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<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't very economical. It meant that you were

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<v Speaker 1>limited to about a miles worth of distance across the

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<v Speaker 1>lines at the time. So that meant that you would

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<v Speaker 1>have had to build a whole bunch of generators or

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<v Speaker 1>power stations to serve even a relatively small city. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>alternating current, what you can do with that is build

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<v Speaker 1>something called a transformer. Transformers allow you to change the

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<v Speaker 1>voltage by stepping it up or stepping it down. And

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<v Speaker 1>if you are using a really high voltage alternating current,

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<v Speaker 1>you can then transmit this electricity over long distances, use

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<v Speaker 1>transformers to step it down to the voltage that you

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<v Speaker 1>need wherever you're going to use it. Because your house

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<v Speaker 1>does not need to have a hundred thousand volts going

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<v Speaker 1>in through the outlet, and if it did, it wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>last extraordinarily long. Honest, I don't know intuitively how much

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<v Speaker 1>a volt is. Okay, so you know you've heard of

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<v Speaker 1>like one twenty volts or two forty volts there you go,

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<v Speaker 1>So you don't need a hundred thousand coming through that

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<v Speaker 1>out So the idea here is that you would have

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<v Speaker 1>these transformers to change the voltage. You can do that

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<v Speaker 1>with alternating current, you cannot do it with direct current.

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<v Speaker 1>It all has to do with electromagnetism. So just one

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<v Speaker 1>last thing that I need to cover for this, because

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<v Speaker 1>direct current will become important in the rest of this conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>When you have a coil of wire and you run

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<v Speaker 1>electricity through it, that generates a magnetic field. Okay, if

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<v Speaker 1>you have an alternating magnetic field and that the magnetic

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<v Speaker 1>field itself is fluctuating. Or you move a magnetic field

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<v Speaker 1>within and away from a conductor, you induce electricity to flow.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you took take two coils of wire, a

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<v Speaker 1>primary coil and a secondary coil, and you run an

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<v Speaker 1>alternating current through the primary coil, meaning that the current

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<v Speaker 1>flows one direction and then the other, this creates a

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<v Speaker 1>fluctuating magnetic field. The secondary coil is within that fluctuating

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<v Speaker 1>magnet field, so that induces electricity to flow. And the

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<v Speaker 1>relationship of the number of coils in the primary coil

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<v Speaker 1>versus the secondary coil determines how much voltage is going

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<v Speaker 1>to flow through that secondary coil. If it's the same

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<v Speaker 1>number of coils, it's a one to one conversion. If

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<v Speaker 1>there are more coils in the secondary coil than there

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<v Speaker 1>is in the primary. Let's say that you've wound wound

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<v Speaker 1>the primary ten times, but you've wound the secondary twenty times,

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<v Speaker 1>you get twice the voltage. Okay, So that's how you

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<v Speaker 1>can step up or step down the voltage based upon

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<v Speaker 1>the number of coils in that secondary coil compared to

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<v Speaker 1>the first one the primary coil. An interesting way to

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<v Speaker 1>tie this into our discussion is that what you've just

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<v Speaker 1>described is what's called a transformer, and this actually does

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<v Speaker 1>transmit current wirelessly, albeit over a very short distance, through

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<v Speaker 1>electro magnetic induction. Right, So these these wires are not

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<v Speaker 1>actually connected to one another. The man magnetism created by

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<v Speaker 1>one creates the electricity in the other wire coil. But

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<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about that. Yeah, we'll talk about more of

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<v Speaker 1>that in a little bit. I just know that it

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<v Speaker 1>works with alternating current, but not with direct current, because

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<v Speaker 1>direct current only creates a magnetic field that's stable, not fluctuating.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, So now we can have our discussion about

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<v Speaker 1>the big bad boy of the Internet of technology, the

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<v Speaker 1>guy who just got ground down by the establishment, the

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<v Speaker 1>guy who had all the ideas to save the world

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<v Speaker 1>or destroy it, Nikola Tesla. Yeah, so, just like all

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<v Speaker 1>these other great technology stories, Nicola Tesla figures into the

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<v Speaker 1>history of wireless power transmission. But there's a problem whenever

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<v Speaker 1>you want to find out something about Nikola Tesla, I've discovered,

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<v Speaker 1>which is the the Internet Tesla fog. Yeah, there is

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<v Speaker 1>sort of this fog of dubious information about Gala Tesla,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's really hard to tell what actually happened with

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<v Speaker 1>this guy. There's just a lot of websites. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>just gonna say stuff. And all right, So part of

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<v Speaker 1>the problem here is that a lot of the info

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<v Speaker 1>about Tesla is from a biography called The Strange Life

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<v Speaker 1>of Nicola Tesla that was published in nineteen seventy three

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<v Speaker 1>by one Arthur H. Matthews. UM. That became the first

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<v Speaker 1>bio of Tesla on the internet because it was transcribed

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<v Speaker 1>from a photo copied booklet by one John Roland Penner. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>If this already sounds shady, that's because it absolutely is. Uh. Now, Now,

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<v Speaker 1>both of these contain certain omissions and weird additions from

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla's actual autobio biography called My Inventions, which was published

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<v Speaker 1>in six parts in a magazine in nineteen nineteen. UM. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>all of this should be should be understood through the

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<v Speaker 1>filter of alright, so Tesla was a crazy showman. I mean, like,

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<v Speaker 1>this dude was very fond of saying these big impressive

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<v Speaker 1>things and making these statements and being kind of wacky

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<v Speaker 1>to begin with, um as part of his personal stick.

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<v Speaker 1>And on top of that, by by nine nineteen UM

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<v Speaker 1>he was perhaps not perceiving um reality the way that

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<v Speaker 1>I would say that most human people on average perceive

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<v Speaker 1>reality to be had some stuff going on. To be fair,

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<v Speaker 1>being a showman and being in technology in this era

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<v Speaker 1>was by no means limited to only Tesla. This was

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<v Speaker 1>an arrow where Edison would take the stage to try

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<v Speaker 1>and while the newspapers and and other form of audiences

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<v Speaker 1>into buying into direct current. I mean Edison of course

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<v Speaker 1>famously would use alternating current to show how dangerous it

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<v Speaker 1>was zapping animals to death. Yeah, that one time he

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<v Speaker 1>had one of his assistants kill an elephant. Was she

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<v Speaker 1>had she did nothing? Well? Okay, no, she actually did

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<v Speaker 1>kill a couple of trainers, but to be fair, the

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<v Speaker 1>trainers were probably not so nice either. To complicated issue

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<v Speaker 1>at any rate, Um, anything that you read online about

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<v Speaker 1>Tesla and his inventions should be um considered critically. Yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>because some of the things that are famously attributed to

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<v Speaker 1>him have no actual documentation apart from people relating a story,

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<v Speaker 1>So you might get something second or third hand or worse,

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<v Speaker 1>and not actual documented evidence. So the reason why we're

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<v Speaker 1>even laying all this out in the first place is

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<v Speaker 1>because a large part of Tesla's mythos centers around this

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<v Speaker 1>idea of broadcasting power wirelessly more than one method, I believe, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's one that sort of used the earth. So how

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<v Speaker 1>how did that's That's that's really the big one. There's

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<v Speaker 1>the other one, which is just zapping the hell out

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<v Speaker 1>of anything that happens to be nearby, also know as

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<v Speaker 1>the Tesla coil um. But no, if you're talking about

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<v Speaker 1>like warden Cliff Wardencliffe Tower, which was meant for a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of things. Primarily it was meant to find a

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<v Speaker 1>way to transmit speci tifically, not really radio waves, but

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<v Speaker 1>transmit waves transatlantically. Uh. There were a lot of financial backers,

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<v Speaker 1>including JP Morgan, who were interested in this possibility. This

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<v Speaker 1>is the earliest days of radio. Yeah, yeah, this was

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<v Speaker 1>mostly being thought of as a method of communication, but

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<v Speaker 1>as of course it would turn out to be. But

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<v Speaker 1>the kind of secondary proof of concept sort of things

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<v Speaker 1>surrounding it was like and maybe energy, right right, Tesla

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<v Speaker 1>was saying that, you know, he had this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>interesting Yeah, he was thinking of the Earth is having

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<v Speaker 1>its own electric charge, all right. He essentially thought of

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<v Speaker 1>the Earth in a way that future scientists would kind

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<v Speaker 1>of prove he was on the right track. He didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have a he didn't really have the right view of it,

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<v Speaker 1>the accurate view, but he was on a track to

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<v Speaker 1>enough things that it gives enough credibility to this makes

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<v Speaker 1>people question right or not it's real. So his idea

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<v Speaker 1>was like using the Earth essentially as the means of

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<v Speaker 1>transmitting electricity. And before we get too technical, essentially just

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<v Speaker 1>imagine that you have a transmitter and a receiver that

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<v Speaker 1>are precisely tuned to one another so that you you

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<v Speaker 1>can't be even a smidge off or else that nothing works,

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<v Speaker 1>and you transmit this using the transmitter, you send electricity

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<v Speaker 1>through the Earth, and then really no matter where the

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<v Speaker 1>receiver is, as long as it's tuned into the right frequency,

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<v Speaker 1>it would pick up that transmission and you would get

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<v Speaker 1>power transmitted from one point to the other. This is

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<v Speaker 1>not the same as free energy, which is what some

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<v Speaker 1>people say. You would in fact have to generate the

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<v Speaker 1>electricity on the transmitting end and then transmit it through

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<v Speaker 1>and you would lose power this way too, just as

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<v Speaker 1>you would through any other transmission means where converting energy

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<v Speaker 1>from one form to another you tend to lose some,

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<v Speaker 1>usually in the form of heat, kind of resistance. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's usually some sort of resistance there. There would have

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<v Speaker 1>to be if you were generating electricity and then putting

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<v Speaker 1>it through a transmitter, and then you probably lose more

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<v Speaker 1>on the receiver end as well. So it's not a

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<v Speaker 1>efficient it's not free energy, but it would be a

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<v Speaker 1>wireless means of transmitting power. All that being said, I

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<v Speaker 1>know of no one who has ever been able to

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<v Speaker 1>make it work the way Tesla was saying. I know

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of people who are looking at

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<v Speaker 1>similar approaches, but nothing. For one thing, Tesla. Tesla did

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<v Speaker 1>put out a patent on this, but you know, patents

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<v Speaker 1>describe a general way of achieving something, right, they don't

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily outline the entire process. Yeah, and so especially back

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<v Speaker 1>in that those days, Tesla's patent is refreshingly very short

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<v Speaker 1>compared to today's patents. You might see a patent today

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<v Speaker 1>on something as simple as, uh, an electric toothbrush that

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't even have you know, a wireless charging and it

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<v Speaker 1>could be you know, thirty pages long. Tesla's is relatively tiny.

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<v Speaker 1>But anyway, uh, yeah, as far as I know, no

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<v Speaker 1>one has replicated anything that Tesla was playing. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>there there were stories that Tesla was able to use

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<v Speaker 1>an enormous Tesla coil in Colorado that lit something like

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<v Speaker 1>um light bulbs that were twenty six miles away or

0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:13.000
<v Speaker 1>something two light bulbs. But again that's second, third hand information.

0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 1>There was no actual documentation of it. Um. Also, I

0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:21.040
<v Speaker 1>mean there are stories that Tesla like created a winged horse,

0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:26.040
<v Speaker 1>and just I love the story about how Tesla went

0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.320
<v Speaker 1>on this long journey trying to get home and was

0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:32.920
<v Speaker 1>distracted several times throughout that journey by a cyclops and

0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.280
<v Speaker 1>there were some and uh there was like a big

0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 1>whirlpool thing. Okay, okay, but but for first, an actual

0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:45.640
<v Speaker 1>quote from Tesla about this Warden Cliff tower. Um Uh,

0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:47.719
<v Speaker 1>this is according to PBS, who I trust to have

0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.840
<v Speaker 1>done their fact checking. In this system that I've invented,

0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.960
<v Speaker 1>it is necessary for the machine to get a grip

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:55.800
<v Speaker 1>of the earth, otherwise it cannot shake the earth. It

0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 1>has to have a grip so that the whole of

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.400
<v Speaker 1>this globe can quiver. Yeah, I not dramatic at all.

0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:03.760
<v Speaker 1>And also I'm not sure why he was kind of

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:10.120
<v Speaker 1>British there, but but I think Russian, British whatever. Actually,

0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 1>what I was going to say was that fueling the

0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 1>the mythology around Tesla is the fact that his financial

0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 1>backers pulled out so warden Cliff was being constructed, it

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.880
<v Speaker 1>was taking longer than anticipated, it was costing more money

0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 1>than anticipated. And meanwhile, a little fellow named Mark Coni

0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:36.680
<v Speaker 1>had figured out how to transmit a single letter transatlantically

0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.120
<v Speaker 1>just like some dudes holding a pole right well, essentially

0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.680
<v Speaker 1>that he found it using a system that was that

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.720
<v Speaker 1>worked and was cheap comparatively speaking. So if you are

0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:51.520
<v Speaker 1>our financial backer and you're looking at this unproven technology

0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>that is taking huge amounts of your money and still

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 1>you haven't seen any progress unless just talking about the

0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.000
<v Speaker 1>earth quivering, and then you look at this other dude

0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:01.800
<v Speaker 1>with with this stick, and you're like, oh, I get

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>a stick. I understand that right, right exactly? Why do

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.040
<v Speaker 1>I waste all this money on this thing that may

0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.160
<v Speaker 1>or may not work when I can get this thing

0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>that totally works. So that was you know, it wasn't

0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.640
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't like it was a malicious attempt. There are

0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 1>some people who framed this as the uh like like

0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Edison and his cronies were able to infiltrate all of

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 1>this and pull strings and that's why um Tesla was abandoned.

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 1>But here's the deal, guys think there were certainly many

0:15:28.320 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 1>times during which kind of underhanded business stuff like down

0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>in Tesla's life. But but you know, here's the thing

0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.720
<v Speaker 1>is that that's not why people remove their money. That's

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.960
<v Speaker 1>not why people remove their financial backing. Because I don't

0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>care if you're Edison or not. If you're JP Morgan

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>and Edison comes up to you and says, hey, I

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.400
<v Speaker 1>want you to pull your support out of from Tesla.

0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.760
<v Speaker 1>But you're JP Morgan and you think, no, Tesla is

0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 1>gonna make me little ten times more money than I'm

0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>putting in. You tell Edison like, go pound sand buddy.

0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.560
<v Speaker 1>So so I'm pretty sure there wasn't a conspiracy. It

0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:02.960
<v Speaker 1>was more of a in a decision. Okay, So I

0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.360
<v Speaker 1>want to climb our way out of the Tesla fog,

0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 1>if that's all right, that's fair because a minute ago

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:13.680
<v Speaker 1>you mentioned electric toothbrushes. Yes I did, And that brings

0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.720
<v Speaker 1>me to the complete opposite end of the spectrum. Coming

0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.360
<v Speaker 1>away from the winged horse Tesla mythology, I want to

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>come right down to the most mundane wireless power transmission

0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 1>we've got the same junk that charges your electric toothbrush

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and really is wireless electricity? How does it work? Okay,

0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:35.000
<v Speaker 1>so this is essentially what I was talking about before

0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:39.480
<v Speaker 1>inductive coupling. You have imagine that you have a a

0:16:39.480 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 1>a device that is able to put an alternating current

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 1>through a coil of wire. You've got a secondary device

0:16:45.960 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 1>that has a coil of wire in it that's connected

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:51.440
<v Speaker 1>to some sort of energy storage device like a battery

0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.040
<v Speaker 1>actually really should just say a rechargeable battery, and then

0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:58.160
<v Speaker 1>you run that that alternating current through the first coil.

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:00.960
<v Speaker 1>As long as the second coil is close enough to

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.280
<v Speaker 1>be within that magnetic field, then it will induce electricity

0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to throw flow through the coil and thus charge the battery.

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 1>So with your electric toothbrush, the actual the primary coil

0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:14.280
<v Speaker 1>would be the one that's in the base that you

0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.200
<v Speaker 1>set the toothbrush down upon once you're finished brushing your teeth,

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.600
<v Speaker 1>and then as long as it's plugged in, it's going

0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.160
<v Speaker 1>to be drawing current and then running this little alternating

0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 1>current through the primary coil. Secondary coil picks up that

0:17:26.600 --> 0:17:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it's induces electricity to flow charges the battery. Okay, but

0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.760
<v Speaker 1>so this is actually charging the toothbrush without making conductive contact. Yes,

0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.240
<v Speaker 1>it's it's just using that magnetic You could you could

0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:42.240
<v Speaker 1>do this with anything. You could have a lightbulb plug

0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.200
<v Speaker 1>screwed into a base that has a coil in it.

0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:48.120
<v Speaker 1>You could have a secondary coil where there is no

0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>physical contact between the two coils, and you could run

0:17:51.440 --> 0:17:54.080
<v Speaker 1>electricity through that primary coil and that light bulb will

0:17:54.240 --> 0:17:57.480
<v Speaker 1>light up. Just the magnetic energy from the first creates

0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 1>electricity in the second. Just that that basic uh, that

0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 1>basic relationship between electricity and magnetism. Yeah, okay, so that's

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.199
<v Speaker 1>really cool, But it seems like that only works at

0:18:07.200 --> 0:18:11.120
<v Speaker 1>short distances, right, well you yeah, you in general, if

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.840
<v Speaker 1>you're using basic, this basic approach, yes, because the secondary

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.679
<v Speaker 1>coil has to be within the magnetic field generated by

0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 1>the first coil. Is there a way we could make

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.719
<v Speaker 1>it work at longer distances? Okay? Well, I guess um,

0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.040
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what you're saying. Resonates with me, but

0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 1>oh no, oh dear alright, So, so resonance actually adds

0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:35.959
<v Speaker 1>potential to this entire inductive coupling concept. Yeah, um, and

0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.879
<v Speaker 1>and resonance is just um an object size and shape

0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 1>will determine the frequency at which it naturally vibrates, right, right,

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.119
<v Speaker 1>So this is the same concept behind if you if

0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 1>you ring a glass and you hear the tone it makes,

0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.320
<v Speaker 1>if you're able to generate that same tone at a

0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.520
<v Speaker 1>strong enough amplitude, you can make the glass deform and break.

0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.560
<v Speaker 1>H Yeah. Or for example, if you have a second

0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.560
<v Speaker 1>glass that has the exact same resonance, then pinging the

0:19:00.600 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 1>first glass should make the second one also begin to vibrate, Yes, exactly, Okay,

0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.439
<v Speaker 1>and now for power. The idea here is to get

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.639
<v Speaker 1>yourself some two curved coils of wire. Yeah, except you

0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.280
<v Speaker 1>put a capacitance plate at the end of each one,

0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.760
<v Speaker 1>um and and place the coils within an appropriate range

0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:21.240
<v Speaker 1>of each other. Once you're working with resonance, this can

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.520
<v Speaker 1>be up to a couple of meters or about seven feet,

0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:27.119
<v Speaker 1>which is that's huge because again you're you are outside

0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:31.600
<v Speaker 1>the usual magnetic field. I mean, unless you're putting bookoos

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.280
<v Speaker 1>a power through a coil, that magnetic fields not going

0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 1>to normally extend that far. So certainly not that far

0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.360
<v Speaker 1>right right, this is pretty good. Um And if these

0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.520
<v Speaker 1>if these coils resonate at the same frequency, and you

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.760
<v Speaker 1>run electricity through that first one, then it should jump

0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.120
<v Speaker 1>or more precisely transmit or stream to the second one.

0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.600
<v Speaker 1>UM M I T has been working on prototypes of

0:19:51.640 --> 0:19:55.560
<v Speaker 1>this since um the early two thousand's. But um, even

0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.720
<v Speaker 1>with this method, the distance at which you can transfer

0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:00.320
<v Speaker 1>power is dependent on the on the diam or of

0:20:00.400 --> 0:20:03.840
<v Speaker 1>that coil. So that's not going to like electrocute you

0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.240
<v Speaker 1>if you walk in front of it. No, because it's

0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.919
<v Speaker 1>not electric fields. It's a magnetic field, and you're not

0:20:10.040 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 1>resonating hopefully at the same same odd if you had

0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:21.560
<v Speaker 1>something on you or in you that resonated at that frequency, uh,

0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:23.879
<v Speaker 1>that would not be good. But I can't imagine you

0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:27.680
<v Speaker 1>having anything that would make being the setup for a

0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>really interesting techno murder mystery. I think I think there

0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.639
<v Speaker 1>should be an episode of Sharlock about this, absolutely where

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:38.240
<v Speaker 1>this necklace. Let's not get off on the subject of Sharelock,

0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.280
<v Speaker 1>because I just watched the first episode season three, and

0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm I could talk about that. We're wearing to go okay,

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:44.480
<v Speaker 1>But so it's a it's a pretty much one to

0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 1>one ratio of the diameter of the coil that you're

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:48.679
<v Speaker 1>using and the distance at which you can make a

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.840
<v Speaker 1>second coil resonate, gotcha. So in other words, you that

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.840
<v Speaker 1>that is a limitation obviously, because if you're talking about

0:20:55.000 --> 0:20:57.920
<v Speaker 1>larger distances, you would need larger coils, which means a

0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.679
<v Speaker 1>larger form factor for whatever it is you're using. It

0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:04.120
<v Speaker 1>gets pretty ridiculous and expensive pretty fast. But there might

0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.959
<v Speaker 1>be ways around that. Even just this month January, researchers

0:21:08.960 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 1>at Duke published a paper which is a tongue twister

0:21:11.720 --> 0:21:14.119
<v Speaker 1>that I'm just going to try to say anyway because

0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:17.480
<v Speaker 1>it entertains me so much. Magnetic meta material superlens for

0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:22.760
<v Speaker 1>increased range wireless power transfer. First, take y'all um and

0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:25.160
<v Speaker 1>and this described the design of a sort of focusing

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 1>lens for electromagnetic fields. It's it's sort of like a

0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:31.240
<v Speaker 1>cubic honey comb. And and each cell of this of

0:21:31.320 --> 0:21:35.399
<v Speaker 1>this sort of weird giant flat Rubik's cube um is

0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:39.600
<v Speaker 1>etched with spiraling copper wire um. This this this is

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:41.919
<v Speaker 1>called a meta material, and it kind of funnels the

0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.800
<v Speaker 1>field into this narrow cone that can transmit power a

0:21:44.840 --> 0:21:47.520
<v Speaker 1>distance of some twelve times the diameter of the coils.

0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>All right, that's kind of cool. So we're talking like

0:21:49.560 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 1>coils and what like the eight or ten inch range

0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:55.360
<v Speaker 1>something like that. Oh, they're about two centimeters in diameter

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>right now, which is about point eight inches. Um, little

0:21:58.840 --> 0:22:01.719
<v Speaker 1>smaller than I was thanking, But all right, but that's

0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:05.520
<v Speaker 1>a total transfer distance of of centimeters are about a foot,

0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:09.640
<v Speaker 1>which is still really impressive considering that they're only two

0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.080
<v Speaker 1>centimeters to begin with. Sure, okay, so so we're still

0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 1>pretty much live. It's not like you're going to be

0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.880
<v Speaker 1>able to have a power station that's on one side

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.639
<v Speaker 1>of your house and be able to use that to

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:22.680
<v Speaker 1>transmit power to a light bulb on the other side

0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>of your house right now, not this year. But this

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 1>is a step in that sort of direction. Okay, Yeah,

0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>that's really cool. But we're still basically on the hield,

0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:37.920
<v Speaker 1>not outside my yard certainly, right right, Well, why don't

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.840
<v Speaker 1>we think about maybe going a little further, like, I

0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:44.639
<v Speaker 1>don't know, from outer space to the Earth. What. Yeah,

0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:49.680
<v Speaker 1>I have thought about this before, because if you'll recall

0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:54.280
<v Speaker 1>our our podcast about the Kardashiv scale. Yes, we talked

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>about what it takes to advance a civilization to sort

0:22:57.640 --> 0:23:01.800
<v Speaker 1>of the next stage of energy production and use. Um,

0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:05.760
<v Speaker 1>So what happens when we need to power all kinds

0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:10.280
<v Speaker 1>of vehicles and colonies all over the solar system. Clearly,

0:23:10.320 --> 0:23:12.639
<v Speaker 1>we would have to be able to tap into power

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.760
<v Speaker 1>beyond just what's available here on Earth. And we're already

0:23:16.800 --> 0:23:19.399
<v Speaker 1>even though even though you you can easily argue that

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.200
<v Speaker 1>we're not nearly tapping all of the Earth's resources as

0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.439
<v Speaker 1>far as energy production could theoretically go, we might not

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:30.040
<v Speaker 1>even be tapping the best ones. Right. But even even so,

0:23:30.160 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 1>even if we were to do that, that would still

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:36.160
<v Speaker 1>limit us on how far we could expand outwards. If

0:23:36.200 --> 0:23:38.560
<v Speaker 1>that's all we depended upon, we would need to find

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:42.360
<v Speaker 1>other ways of harvesting and transmitting energy. Right. You can't

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 1>run a chord out from Earth to the colony on

0:23:45.560 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>the Moon, not after that one visit I had from

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.760
<v Speaker 1>federal authorities who said it was a noble attempt, but

0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:56.359
<v Speaker 1>I should knock that off. Versus versa. You also can't

0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:59.160
<v Speaker 1>run a chord from the solar harvest on the Moon

0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:01.680
<v Speaker 1>to Earth if that's what you want to do. Right, So,

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:05.240
<v Speaker 1>you might even be able to design this amazing device

0:24:05.320 --> 0:24:10.000
<v Speaker 1>that can float out in space unimpeded by the Earth's atmosphere,

0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:14.160
<v Speaker 1>that has a diameter that is so large that's it's

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.160
<v Speaker 1>capturing more solar energy just from this one device than

0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 1>all of the solar farms on Earth. But how do

0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:21.800
<v Speaker 1>you get that power down to the planet where we

0:24:21.800 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 1>can use it. Well, let's talk about some beaming beam

0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:33.400
<v Speaker 1>we get Scottie, he's chief Archief O'Brien. Yeah, that they

0:24:33.400 --> 0:24:35.560
<v Speaker 1>are very important as far as beaming goes. Now, so

0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 1>we're talking about using uh different forms of energy to

0:24:39.680 --> 0:24:43.560
<v Speaker 1>transmit uh something that where we store. We we gather

0:24:43.720 --> 0:24:46.439
<v Speaker 1>energy from one source, we convert it into another kind

0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:51.760
<v Speaker 1>of transmission, whether it's electromagnetic or something else, send that

0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:56.120
<v Speaker 1>down to a receiver which then can convert it back

0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:59.440
<v Speaker 1>into electricity that then can be used. That's the basic idea,

0:24:59.560 --> 0:25:02.440
<v Speaker 1>right Is this for real? This is for real? Yeah,

0:25:02.440 --> 0:25:04.120
<v Speaker 1>this is this is something we can do right now.

0:25:04.160 --> 0:25:06.800
<v Speaker 1>In fact, one of the one of the methods is

0:25:06.840 --> 0:25:11.280
<v Speaker 1>through microwave transmissions. Yeah, okay, So microwaves are basically their

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:16.160
<v Speaker 1>electromagnetic radiation, so they're along the electromagnetic spectrum the same

0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:20.679
<v Speaker 1>as light and radio waves. Um, so we know that

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:23.480
<v Speaker 1>we can transmit them around. I mean that they're like

0:25:23.520 --> 0:25:26.640
<v Speaker 1>your cell phone sends a signal based on microwaves. Sure,

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.359
<v Speaker 1>lots of other cable signals like television come in can

0:25:30.400 --> 0:25:32.639
<v Speaker 1>be beamed by microwave. Y yep, you can do it

0:25:32.680 --> 0:25:35.600
<v Speaker 1>that way, and you can actually have a way of

0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:40.320
<v Speaker 1>generating or all not generating, but transmitting electricity this way. Okay,

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:43.040
<v Speaker 1>So how does it work? How does a device receive

0:25:43.240 --> 0:25:46.960
<v Speaker 1>microwaves and turn that into usable electricity? First, you have

0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:50.600
<v Speaker 1>again a DC generator, all right, something that's going to

0:25:50.680 --> 0:25:53.960
<v Speaker 1>create DC electricity, that converts that. You then have a

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.840
<v Speaker 1>converter that converts the electricity into microwaves, sends the microwaves

0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:01.640
<v Speaker 1>towards wherever it is that you're you want it to go,

0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:05.159
<v Speaker 1>all right. On the other end, you have a rectifying

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:12.120
<v Speaker 1>antenna or a rectenna that can receive this and then

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:16.600
<v Speaker 1>convert those microwaves back into direct current, which then can

0:26:16.640 --> 0:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>go and to whatever application you were planning. Granted, if

0:26:20.520 --> 0:26:22.919
<v Speaker 1>you were planning on transmitting that through, say like a

0:26:22.960 --> 0:26:25.080
<v Speaker 1>power grid. Let's say that we've got some sort of

0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.360
<v Speaker 1>um orbiting space station that's beaming power down to generate

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.760
<v Speaker 1>electricity specifically for the power grid here on Earth, then

0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:36.160
<v Speaker 1>you would probably need to at least the where infrastructure

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:38.160
<v Speaker 1>is based right now, you would need to then put

0:26:38.200 --> 0:26:41.760
<v Speaker 1>the power through an inverter to make to change it

0:26:41.760 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 1>from DC power to a C power so it could

0:26:44.000 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 1>be transmitted across the grid. As it stands now, still

0:26:47.280 --> 0:26:49.560
<v Speaker 1>pretty cool. If you're getting there from space, I'd say, oh, no,

0:26:49.640 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>it's it's pretty awesome. I mean you have to keep

0:26:51.640 --> 0:26:56.360
<v Speaker 1>in mind that any anything that's a multi stage process

0:26:56.400 --> 0:26:59.280
<v Speaker 1>like this, where you're transmitting power, you're losing energy along

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:01.679
<v Speaker 1>the way, so your efficiency is never going to be

0:27:02.440 --> 0:27:04.720
<v Speaker 1>I want to make that clear. Uh, you should think

0:27:04.720 --> 0:27:08.600
<v Speaker 1>about changing energy between different media, like trying to hand

0:27:08.720 --> 0:27:11.840
<v Speaker 1>somebody a pile of sugar. Like you can hand it

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:15.440
<v Speaker 1>to them, but they're never going to get all of it, right, Right,

0:27:15.480 --> 0:27:17.360
<v Speaker 1>You're gonna lose a little bit, usually in the form

0:27:17.400 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 1>of heat. That's the that's the big one, right, But

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:22.080
<v Speaker 1>there are other ways you can lose energy as well. Yeah,

0:27:22.119 --> 0:27:25.400
<v Speaker 1>And microwaves actually do better than a lot of other forms. Sure. Yeah.

0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:28.520
<v Speaker 1>In fact, in space they're great because you don't have

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:31.120
<v Speaker 1>to worry about like when it moves through the atmosphere.

0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:34.200
<v Speaker 1>You can actually lose some microwaves and transmission that way.

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Not enough for it to be a huge loss, but

0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 1>it would mean that you would take a hit and efficiency.

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Each stage you would lose a little bit of energy

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:45.520
<v Speaker 1>and efficiency. But I think i've read that the ideal

0:27:45.600 --> 0:27:48.320
<v Speaker 1>like it's say that everything's working at all, the equipment

0:27:48.400 --> 0:27:50.919
<v Speaker 1>is top notch. Yeah, it's working as good as it

0:27:51.040 --> 0:27:53.879
<v Speaker 1>possibly could, which means we'll never get there. But you

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:56.520
<v Speaker 1>know it's it's the This is the ceiling would be

0:27:56.560 --> 0:28:00.440
<v Speaker 1>an efficiency of around seventy Because you're talking about converting

0:28:00.480 --> 0:28:04.480
<v Speaker 1>electricity to microwaves, the microwaves back into electricity. It means

0:28:04.480 --> 0:28:06.399
<v Speaker 1>there are a couple of different stages there, and of

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:08.760
<v Speaker 1>course that also will depend upon whether the transmission is

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:10.639
<v Speaker 1>through space where you don't have to worry about the

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:13.879
<v Speaker 1>atmosphere getting in the way, or if it's atmosphere to

0:28:14.040 --> 0:28:17.080
<v Speaker 1>space or space to atmosphere. Because we could use this

0:28:17.200 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 1>microwave transmission for a lot of different purposes, not just

0:28:20.840 --> 0:28:23.359
<v Speaker 1>beaming out to space. Wouldn't have to just be that.

0:28:24.080 --> 0:28:27.800
<v Speaker 1>But but that's one way. How about unmanned aerial vehicles?

0:28:27.800 --> 0:28:32.840
<v Speaker 1>How about them? You can beam microwaves to a ua

0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:36.959
<v Speaker 1>V and keep it a lot I can surely this

0:28:37.040 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 1>is crazy science fiction. No, this idea has been around

0:28:39.760 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 1>for a long time. Actually in nineteen sixty four, the

0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.200
<v Speaker 1>electrical engineer William C. Brown, who was working for the

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:50.320
<v Speaker 1>Raytheon Corporation at the time, gave a demonstration showing that

0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:54.320
<v Speaker 1>he could power a small electric helicopter by beaming microwaves

0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:57.720
<v Speaker 1>to the vehicle from an antenna. So it had a rectenna,

0:28:58.160 --> 0:29:00.640
<v Speaker 1>it received the microwaves, convert to them to d C

0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:03.800
<v Speaker 1>current and power the rotors of the helicopter. And this

0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:08.520
<v Speaker 1>was how it stayed aloft. Uh. And so that's not

0:29:08.560 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 1>the only one there's been. The Sharp vehicle. It was

0:29:12.200 --> 0:29:16.239
<v Speaker 1>the stationary high altitude relay platform that was created by

0:29:16.280 --> 0:29:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the Canadian Communication Research Center in the nineteen eighties, and

0:29:19.920 --> 0:29:22.920
<v Speaker 1>it was given a huge boost by new printed circuit

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 1>technology that allowed um, those those rectennas to become lightweight

0:29:27.000 --> 0:29:30.960
<v Speaker 1>enough to really benefit the vehicle, right, because I mean, obviously,

0:29:30.960 --> 0:29:34.160
<v Speaker 1>if you have a device that adds weight to the vehicle,

0:29:34.200 --> 0:29:36.080
<v Speaker 1>then you have to take all of that into account.

0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:39.000
<v Speaker 1>It changes everything, right every time you are thinking, oh, well,

0:29:39.000 --> 0:29:41.760
<v Speaker 1>here's a solution, but it adds weight weight. Now we

0:29:41.800 --> 0:29:44.040
<v Speaker 1>need more power than the solution would allow us to have,

0:29:44.120 --> 0:29:45.880
<v Speaker 1>and then we have to go back to the drawing board. Right,

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 1>this one could circle for like months at a time.

0:29:48.480 --> 0:29:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Uh yeah, So I think that's really the bottom line

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:54.200
<v Speaker 1>with this is you've got to figure out how to

0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:58.520
<v Speaker 1>reduce the size and mass of the rectenna and um

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:01.840
<v Speaker 1>how to increase the efficient right, And so if you

0:30:01.880 --> 0:30:05.200
<v Speaker 1>can maximize both of those, these could have some really

0:30:05.240 --> 0:30:09.719
<v Speaker 1>interesting capabilities. Like save for micro aerial vehicles. Sure, so

0:30:09.760 --> 0:30:11.959
<v Speaker 1>you can have teeny tiny ones because you wouldn't need

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:14.200
<v Speaker 1>a battery on board at all. Yeah, I want to

0:30:14.360 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 1>give just one example. I was looking at some of

0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 1>what are some of the really cool micro aerial vehicles

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:22.280
<v Speaker 1>out there. One is called the Dell fly Explorer, and

0:30:22.280 --> 0:30:26.479
<v Speaker 1>that's an autonomous flying vehicle. Weighs about twenty grams, so

0:30:27.440 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 1>your average empty soda can is fourteen or fifteen grams,

0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>not much heavier than an empty aluminum can, right, And

0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>this is a an autonomous, tiny flying vehicle. It's got

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:42.520
<v Speaker 1>stereovision so it can see obstacles and avoid them. But

0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:45.680
<v Speaker 1>the main problem is the battery life is only nine

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:49.520
<v Speaker 1>minutes at that scale. Yeah, that's not very long. But

0:30:49.720 --> 0:30:55.320
<v Speaker 1>imagine if you could scale down and efficient enough rectanna

0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:59.360
<v Speaker 1>at that size that you could beam microwave power and

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.200
<v Speaker 1>keep this thing going. I don't know if that's achievable.

0:31:02.240 --> 0:31:04.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm not an engineer. I don't know if you can

0:31:05.240 --> 0:31:09.880
<v Speaker 1>get Erectina to that size and the right efficiency, But

0:31:09.960 --> 0:31:11.520
<v Speaker 1>if you could, it seems like that would be a

0:31:11.520 --> 0:31:15.280
<v Speaker 1>good alternative to the battery power. And another is, uh,

0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:19.240
<v Speaker 1>this is true of all of our broadcast abilities, the

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 1>ability to to transmit power over fast distances. But another

0:31:22.760 --> 0:31:28.880
<v Speaker 1>potential application is in construction in space. Oh yeah, actually,

0:31:28.920 --> 0:31:31.680
<v Speaker 1>because a lot of the things you want to have

0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 1>in space, it is not very feasible to build on

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Earth and send up whole right. Yeah, even even building

0:31:37.680 --> 0:31:40.160
<v Speaker 1>in part and sending it up and being constructed in

0:31:40.240 --> 0:31:42.920
<v Speaker 1>parts can be problematic depending on the size of the parts,

0:31:42.960 --> 0:31:46.360
<v Speaker 1>because you know, you're you're limited by whatever payload capacity

0:31:46.440 --> 0:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>your vehicle happens to have. Right. So, if we're able

0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:51.680
<v Speaker 1>to get to a point where we can either ship

0:31:51.800 --> 0:31:55.040
<v Speaker 1>raw materials up into space, or if we get into

0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 1>that asteroid mining world where we're able to even get

0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.800
<v Speaker 1>raw materials out there and process us them some way,

0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:03.640
<v Speaker 1>we need to have energy to fuel those processes and

0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:06.400
<v Speaker 1>not having to send fuel up along with whatever we're sending,

0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:08.760
<v Speaker 1>because then again you need more fuel to send up

0:32:08.800 --> 0:32:11.040
<v Speaker 1>the fuel. As we're right back to that energy problem.

0:32:11.040 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 1>But if you're if you're able to beam the energy

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 1>either from Earth or you're able to generate it through

0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 1>some other space orbiting uh platform. For example, you know,

0:32:21.040 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 1>a space orbiting platform that's collecting solar energy. You could

0:32:25.120 --> 0:32:27.960
<v Speaker 1>beam it from there to the site and you would

0:32:27.960 --> 0:32:31.240
<v Speaker 1>be able to provide energy for everything from uh uh

0:32:31.280 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, refining the materials that you're mining out of

0:32:34.040 --> 0:32:38.520
<v Speaker 1>asteroids to actually giving the energy you need to for

0:32:38.560 --> 0:32:41.760
<v Speaker 1>the construction of various stuff out in space. If we

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:43.680
<v Speaker 1>could get to a point where we could actually construct

0:32:44.040 --> 0:32:47.640
<v Speaker 1>spacecraft in space where you don't have to launch them

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:51.160
<v Speaker 1>in the first place, then you you're really on your

0:32:51.200 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 1>way toward a viable exploration and even colonization sort of

0:32:56.280 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 1>civilization of that. You know. Otherwise you have to sit

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:00.160
<v Speaker 1>there and figure out how to get the thing off

0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:03.160
<v Speaker 1>the planet before it can even start on its journey

0:33:03.160 --> 0:33:05.480
<v Speaker 1>to wherever it's going to go. Yeah, the the construction

0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:08.080
<v Speaker 1>thing seems like a big potential application to me. But

0:33:08.160 --> 0:33:10.760
<v Speaker 1>the other one is the one we touched on earlier,

0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:16.080
<v Speaker 1>which is energy harvesting space. Sure, um, so we're not

0:33:16.160 --> 0:33:19.080
<v Speaker 1>getting all of the potential solar energy we could be

0:33:19.120 --> 0:33:21.760
<v Speaker 1>getting on the surface of the Earth, are we not nearly?

0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:25.360
<v Speaker 1>You know? For one thing, obviously one, we can't cope

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 1>the entire Earth with solar panels, so we can't get

0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:30.920
<v Speaker 1>all of the solar energy that's saying earth. Plus there

0:33:30.920 --> 0:33:34.200
<v Speaker 1>are these things called clouds, the clouds. There's also, yeah,

0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the atmosphere. There's also the fact that solar panels reflect

0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 1>some lights, so you're not gonna get you're not getting

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 1>of the sunlight that's even hitting a panel, much less

0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.200
<v Speaker 1>of the sunlight that's hitting the Earth. There's this other

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:49.120
<v Speaker 1>thing called nighttime. Yeah. Yeah, it happens first when the

0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Sun goes down, right, it's not when the Earth turns um.

0:33:53.880 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, if if we were able to create, uh,

0:33:57.840 --> 0:34:00.760
<v Speaker 1>like I said, these these kind of solar harvesting platforms

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:04.040
<v Speaker 1>out in space, then that could definitely help. Or if

0:34:04.080 --> 0:34:06.520
<v Speaker 1>we were able to harness uh, some of the other

0:34:06.640 --> 0:34:09.520
<v Speaker 1>real estate that's out there, like the moon. Yeah. H

0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the idea of a space based solar power plant is

0:34:13.120 --> 0:34:15.600
<v Speaker 1>also we're not just spitballing like this is something that

0:34:15.920 --> 0:34:19.240
<v Speaker 1>NASA actually talks about. I want to give one example

0:34:19.239 --> 0:34:22.040
<v Speaker 1>of a cool paper I was looking at it's called

0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the SPS alpha. So it was in an early evaluation

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:31.360
<v Speaker 1>of this thing called the Solar Power Satellite via arbitrarily

0:34:31.480 --> 0:34:33.640
<v Speaker 1>large phased array. I don't know why it has to

0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:37.440
<v Speaker 1>be arbitrarily large. I think it should be specifically large.

0:34:38.360 --> 0:34:41.040
<v Speaker 1>I think the basic idea about that was that you

0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:44.400
<v Speaker 1>could keep adding modules to make it larger. Okay, that

0:34:44.480 --> 0:34:47.880
<v Speaker 1>makes sense. Okay, So it was investigated by NASA's Innovative

0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Advanced Concepts Division in two thousand and eleven two twelve,

0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 1>and so essentially, imagine a flower shaped array of modular

0:34:57.400 --> 0:35:02.040
<v Speaker 1>mirrors that direct solar energy inward towards solar cells and

0:35:02.080 --> 0:35:05.600
<v Speaker 1>then convert that energy into microwaves and then beam it

0:35:05.640 --> 0:35:08.720
<v Speaker 1>down to Earth and that would be up in geostationary

0:35:08.880 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 1>orbit UM, so it would have direct access to this

0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:16.640
<v Speaker 1>clean sunlight. UH. And in the official report, the authors

0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:20.399
<v Speaker 1>stayed in their conclusion quote, if the SPS alpha can

0:35:20.440 --> 0:35:23.839
<v Speaker 1>be developed, solar power in the range of hundreds of megawatts,

0:35:23.880 --> 0:35:27.839
<v Speaker 1>two hundreds of gigawatts could be harvested in space and

0:35:27.880 --> 0:35:31.560
<v Speaker 1>delivered efficiently to markets on Earth, and to enable energy

0:35:31.680 --> 0:35:36.200
<v Speaker 1>rich operations throughout the inner solar system, transforming all aspects

0:35:36.200 --> 0:35:39.000
<v Speaker 1>of government and commercial space. All I need is one

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:47.960
<v Speaker 1>one gigawatts, that's megawatts, Yeah, I need one one of them.

0:35:48.120 --> 0:35:49.920
<v Speaker 1>But they think that microwaves are the way to do this.

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:53.520
<v Speaker 1>Huh Yeah, so they went with microwaves. Now, are there

0:35:53.560 --> 0:35:56.759
<v Speaker 1>any other ways that you could transmit something that far

0:35:57.440 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>other than microwaves space hamsters? I think that that's the

0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:06.440
<v Speaker 1>most accurate and scientific method of energy transfer. I have

0:36:06.520 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 1>a ridiculous story to tell you, guys, but we'll save

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:11.319
<v Speaker 1>that till after the podcast is over. Actually, the other

0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:16.000
<v Speaker 1>one another, well, the other one, there are multiple suggestions,

0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:19.680
<v Speaker 1>but another big one, which another big one would be lasers,

0:36:20.400 --> 0:36:23.400
<v Speaker 1>right right, because lasers are, after after all, working on

0:36:23.520 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 1>just another range of the electromagnetic spectrum that's within the

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:31.520
<v Speaker 1>light spectrum, super focused. In this case, it would be

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.640
<v Speaker 1>directed infrared or near infrared laser beams, so would not

0:36:35.760 --> 0:36:38.359
<v Speaker 1>be visible to the naked eye, right, But that could

0:36:38.440 --> 0:36:43.000
<v Speaker 1>activate photovoltaic cells, you know, basically solar cells, and that

0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:45.919
<v Speaker 1>would convert the light into electricity. So in other words,

0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.759
<v Speaker 1>we're just kind of being able to create fakes on

0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:53.279
<v Speaker 1>light beam it down to a specific place. Now, I

0:36:53.360 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 1>got a question for you, guys. So it's a laser

0:36:56.239 --> 0:37:00.520
<v Speaker 1>based system. Um, what am I looking here? What are

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:05.480
<v Speaker 1>my limitations? Well, you know with with this or actually

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:07.839
<v Speaker 1>with microwaves, to you need a direct line of sight

0:37:08.120 --> 0:37:11.200
<v Speaker 1>between your power source and your receiver. So anything that's

0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:14.399
<v Speaker 1>based on light is obviously limited by line of sight.

0:37:14.560 --> 0:37:18.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, if if if the receiving station is on

0:37:18.680 --> 0:37:21.239
<v Speaker 1>the side of the Earth that's facing away from the

0:37:21.280 --> 0:37:23.879
<v Speaker 1>transmitting station, you have to wait until the two are

0:37:23.880 --> 0:37:26.279
<v Speaker 1>in alignment. Now, normally you would get around this by

0:37:26.320 --> 0:37:29.879
<v Speaker 1>having whatever it is in uh direct line of sight

0:37:30.000 --> 0:37:32.719
<v Speaker 1>all the time, sure, or if you had some kind

0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:36.440
<v Speaker 1>of um array of dishes, you could use those to

0:37:36.640 --> 0:37:39.840
<v Speaker 1>beam the lasers. Yeah, if you had an array and

0:37:39.920 --> 0:37:44.960
<v Speaker 1>you were able to direct the transmitting antenna toward a

0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:48.320
<v Speaker 1>specific point, then you could do that. So um, yeah,

0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:51.360
<v Speaker 1>it's certainly one something that you'd have to take that

0:37:51.400 --> 0:37:54.880
<v Speaker 1>into consideration. Obviously it's an issue. M Also efficiency is

0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:59.200
<v Speaker 1>an issue. Um, your photovol takes optimized for the wavelength

0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.560
<v Speaker 1>of an R are near and for a beam can

0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:05.439
<v Speaker 1>capture about half the power. So again we're looking at

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:09.840
<v Speaker 1>that that loss of energy through various stages of transmission.

0:38:09.840 --> 0:38:14.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean even converting energy into a laser, you're going

0:38:14.120 --> 0:38:17.480
<v Speaker 1>to lose some of that energy already, right, depending upon

0:38:17.520 --> 0:38:19.040
<v Speaker 1>however you're doing it. But you know, some of the

0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.359
<v Speaker 1>electricity that you would go into creating a laser, you

0:38:21.360 --> 0:38:23.359
<v Speaker 1>lose some of that. And then on the other end,

0:38:23.400 --> 0:38:26.319
<v Speaker 1>you've got the common problems with photovoltaics being you know

0:38:26.360 --> 0:38:29.800
<v Speaker 1>that the materials that we have right now aren't quite

0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:32.080
<v Speaker 1>as optimal as they could be. Yeah, and even that

0:38:32.400 --> 0:38:35.360
<v Speaker 1>at top level, like even if you were to optimize

0:38:35.400 --> 0:38:37.960
<v Speaker 1>it to the ideal, again, you're never going to reach.

0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 1>So the question is whether or not the efficiency adds

0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:47.760
<v Speaker 1>up to it making being a practical solution. Um. And honestly,

0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:50.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, all of these things are things we're thinking about.

0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:54.960
<v Speaker 1>We don't have a whole lot of experience actually putting

0:38:55.080 --> 0:38:57.360
<v Speaker 1>major versions of this into place. I mean, obviously in

0:38:57.360 --> 0:38:59.720
<v Speaker 1>the lab we've used quite a bit. Yeah, what's actually

0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 1>been done in terms of laser transfer, Well, for lasers,

0:39:03.200 --> 0:39:05.480
<v Speaker 1>they did a test run of a tiny little radio

0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:08.640
<v Speaker 1>controlled aircraft at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in two

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.960
<v Speaker 1>thousand three that that proved that the concept was solid. Um.

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:14.400
<v Speaker 1>They they totally flew that little thing around inside a

0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:17.640
<v Speaker 1>building for a good while, right, and and I mean,

0:39:17.680 --> 0:39:19.600
<v Speaker 1>you know, I'm talking about it like it was silly,

0:39:19.640 --> 0:39:21.080
<v Speaker 1>and it was a tiny bit silly, but it was

0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:24.360
<v Speaker 1>really cool. I mean, like that was a laser powered airplane.

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:26.600
<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. It's a proof of concept, right, that's how

0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:30.360
<v Speaker 1>these things start. Also also very cool. Um. Back in

0:39:30.440 --> 0:39:33.719
<v Speaker 1>two thousand nine, there was a robot that climbed nine

0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.360
<v Speaker 1>that's that's about half a mile or so UM cable

0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:40.080
<v Speaker 1>that won some funding from NASA for going towards space

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:42.960
<v Speaker 1>elevator research because we need to be able to provide

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:47.480
<v Speaker 1>energy to climber, and that robot was laser powered. Yeah. Yeah,

0:39:47.560 --> 0:39:49.160
<v Speaker 1>see that that makes a lot of sense too, because

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:50.840
<v Speaker 1>if you have a space elevator and you've got a

0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:54.600
<v Speaker 1>robotic climber that needs to climb that cable, one way

0:39:54.840 --> 0:39:56.880
<v Speaker 1>that you can reduce some of the weight is to

0:39:57.000 --> 0:39:59.759
<v Speaker 1>remove the need for it to carry its own power,

0:39:59.800 --> 0:40:03.359
<v Speaker 1>so able to provide power some other way than that

0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:07.239
<v Speaker 1>would lighten the load of the space elevator uh that

0:40:07.320 --> 0:40:10.360
<v Speaker 1>needs to climb up this this cable and thus in

0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:12.880
<v Speaker 1>the long run, it will only take sixty four weeks.

0:40:12.880 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 1>In well more importantly, it means that you are, it

0:40:18.560 --> 0:40:20.319
<v Speaker 1>won't be let's it won't be as much of an

0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 1>energy drain, right, Yeah, ultimate expense will be less so

0:40:26.320 --> 0:40:30.680
<v Speaker 1>uh so. Yeah, really cool ideas here, and the you know,

0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:32.720
<v Speaker 1>the important thing to remember is that all of this stuff,

0:40:32.719 --> 0:40:37.600
<v Speaker 1>it's all in the prototype stage, the experimental stage. Obviously,

0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.960
<v Speaker 1>we've been harnessing solar power for ages now, so it's

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.240
<v Speaker 1>not like all of these are untested ideas. The ideas

0:40:44.239 --> 0:40:46.960
<v Speaker 1>themselves have been tested. It's just being able to implement

0:40:47.000 --> 0:40:50.080
<v Speaker 1>them on a large scale is still that's a big deal.

0:40:50.480 --> 0:40:52.919
<v Speaker 1>I think I know the main thing that's holding them back,

0:40:53.719 --> 0:40:56.600
<v Speaker 1>which is when you build a microwave power plant in

0:40:56.640 --> 0:41:00.440
<v Speaker 1>some city two thousand, it inevitably gets blast by this

0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:02.960
<v Speaker 1>thing from from above where you can see, and it

0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:05.640
<v Speaker 1>sets half your city on fire. That does you know,

0:41:05.680 --> 0:41:08.200
<v Speaker 1>we have to we have to crack that nut. We

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.960
<v Speaker 1>have to crack that nut, and once we do, then

0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:13.759
<v Speaker 1>we're ready to install sim City and it will not

0:41:13.840 --> 0:41:16.440
<v Speaker 1>require an online connection for you to play, even if

0:41:16.440 --> 0:41:20.560
<v Speaker 1>you're playing a single player campaign, that's just connect part.

0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:23.120
<v Speaker 1>Part of this brings up an important issue, which is

0:41:23.160 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 1>the public perception of things like microwaves and laser beams,

0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.319
<v Speaker 1>because when you say words like that to a lot

0:41:28.360 --> 0:41:31.200
<v Speaker 1>of people, they think microwave. That's what I used to

0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:34.480
<v Speaker 1>boil food. I go back to Tesla's death ray. Yeah,

0:41:34.640 --> 0:41:38.560
<v Speaker 1>that kind of thing, which is not how that would work. Yeah. Uh, Now,

0:41:38.800 --> 0:41:42.040
<v Speaker 1>I can't conclusively rule out any risks because I don't

0:41:42.040 --> 0:41:44.719
<v Speaker 1>really know, but I have not read anything that suggested

0:41:44.800 --> 0:41:47.680
<v Speaker 1>there would be major risks of death rays from space

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:52.200
<v Speaker 1>if we were to use microwave transmission. Yeah, I death

0:41:52.280 --> 0:41:54.879
<v Speaker 1>rays from space would make an awesome album title though.

0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:57.920
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, you know, the important thing I think

0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:02.279
<v Speaker 1>to remember here is that these these methods are not

0:42:02.400 --> 0:42:04.759
<v Speaker 1>science fiction. I mean, this is the stuff that is

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:09.520
<v Speaker 1>going to make a lot of the future, specifically stuff

0:42:09.560 --> 0:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>like space exploration really viable, at least in the near term,

0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:16.239
<v Speaker 1>unless we come up with a way of creating you know,

0:42:16.640 --> 0:42:22.799
<v Speaker 1>fusion reactors aboard distant um spacecraft and space stations. So

0:42:22.960 --> 0:42:25.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm really excited about it. I think that it's got

0:42:25.760 --> 0:42:30.080
<v Speaker 1>some interesting applications. I don't think necessarily that we're going

0:42:30.120 --> 0:42:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to see it replace all the power cables that are

0:42:33.520 --> 0:42:36.960
<v Speaker 1>here on Earth anytime soon, unless someone comes up with

0:42:37.000 --> 0:42:41.160
<v Speaker 1>a brilliant means of transmitting power safely that I think

0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:46.200
<v Speaker 1>that infrastructure is going to stick around for the foreseeable future.

0:42:46.360 --> 0:42:49.799
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's kind of so tied into everything we

0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:54.040
<v Speaker 1>do right now. There are are infrastructure yeah right, I

0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:58.319
<v Speaker 1>mean even now that we can transmit direct current more

0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:03.200
<v Speaker 1>efficiently than alternating, well, our infrastructure is based off alternating currents.

0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:05.960
<v Speaker 1>So while we have the technology to do it, it

0:43:05.960 --> 0:43:08.360
<v Speaker 1>would mean having to replace a huge amount of stuff

0:43:08.360 --> 0:43:12.239
<v Speaker 1>that's been established for you know, decades now. So uh so,

0:43:12.520 --> 0:43:14.239
<v Speaker 1>you know, I don't know that we're gonna see a

0:43:14.520 --> 0:43:17.640
<v Speaker 1>change on our day to day lives in the near future,

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 1>but it has incredible implications for the far future, particularly

0:43:22.440 --> 0:43:25.239
<v Speaker 1>when we're talking about space, which we like to do

0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:28.640
<v Speaker 1>on this podcast from time to time. So guys, if

0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:32.279
<v Speaker 1>you have enjoyed this episode, go to FW thinking dot com.

0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:36.080
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0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.200
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0:43:42.440 --> 0:43:45.840
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0:43:53.960 --> 0:43:56.800
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0:43:56.800 --> 0:43:59.040
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0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:06.520
<v Speaker 1>to you again, Nellie Sen. For more on this topic

0:44:06.560 --> 0:44:20.360
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0:44:11.160 --> 0:44:23.280
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