1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: Cool Zon Media. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You're 3 00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 2: twice a week. Reminder that I introduced the show the 4 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,720 Speaker 2: same time every time. It never changes. This is always 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: the script. My name is Margaret Kiljoy and I'm the host. 6 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: I think you probably inferred that I might even even 7 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: implied it. But my guest is Hazel Akasha. Hi. How 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 2: are you? 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: Hi'm Margaret. I'm doing okay. How are you? 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 2: I'm all right. I'm hungry. I'm always hungry by the 11 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 2: time I'm recording these. 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: I ate a bunch of hot Scheetos on the break 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: and now my mouth is on fire. 14 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 2: Excellent. I ate some pretzel chips. They were good. We 15 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: also have a producer whose name Sophie, who's not on 16 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: the call, and we also have an audio engineer named 17 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: Eva who's also not on the call, but he's listening. 18 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: Hi Eva, Hi Eva. 19 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 2: And our theme music was written for us by un woman. 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: And this is part two of a two parter about 21 00:00:56,400 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 2: a story that I wasn't sure I wanted to tell, 22 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 2: but I actually find it a very entertaining story with 23 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 2: lots of interesting information. It's just that I can't run 24 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: around and be like I want to claim this man 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 2: as a hero. But also that's like one of the 26 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: main lessons of the show, right anyway, is that hero 27 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 2: worship is bad. I know, I went on a long 28 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:15,480 Speaker 2: rund about how I love Roger Casement. Maybe things are blurry. 29 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: Maybe sometimes it's okay to heroes interesting. 30 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: And also we can't let the Nazis have everything, right, Yeah, 31 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: the reasons why the Nazis like this guy are not 32 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: the reasons why you like this guy. 33 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: I know, and they get real mad, and but I 34 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: also am, like, I like a thing that this guy did. 35 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 2: That's all I know. I just know a thing that 36 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: he did that I think is cool, and it's enough 37 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: to have made it into the history books. 38 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 1: It's almost like, you know, we can all agree to have, 39 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: you know, a healthy and respectful amount of admiration for 40 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: a person. We're not getting weird about it. 41 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So probably put down that tattoo gun and 42 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: stop getting ourminius tattoos that you started getting at the 43 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: top of the apisode. But maybe not, I don't know. 44 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: Whatever, maybe you know way more about him than we do. 45 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: That's almost certainly true. I would hope that anyone who's 46 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: getting arminiaus Tattoos knows more about him than we do. 47 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: And actually the Nazis didn't call m Rminius. They called 48 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: him Herman the German. They didn't call him Herman the German. 49 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: They called him Herman. 50 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 1: That's fucked up. That's not even because it's not his name. 51 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: That's just a bad name. 52 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 2: You don't like Herman the German. 53 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: No, I don't like Herman the German. No funk that. No, 54 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: Herman the German is a fucking beije ass name. 55 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 2: It could be the name of like the sergeant in 56 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 2: a World War two movie who's actually on the American 57 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: side but like grew up speaking German in Chicago. He 58 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: could be Herman the German. 59 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: Or it's the name of like the mean kid in 60 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: like a nineteen fifties Leave It to Beaver. Oh, totally 61 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: kind of like sitcom. 62 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: Totally, that's Herman the German. 63 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: The mean kid who like never really talks, just sort 64 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: of growls that you yeah, and he's like twice as 65 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: big as all the other kids. Because it's nineteen fifty 66 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: that we're still weirdly scared of German people in kind 67 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,360 Speaker 1: of a racist way. Yeah, But like also they did 68 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: their Germans so like whatever. 69 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: That's who Herman the Germans should have been. But you 70 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 2: know how to name that should get him beat up? Oh, 71 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: we now have introduced Arminius, Herman's German. But now let 72 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: me introduce you to Publius Quintillus Varus. 73 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: Oh my fucking god. Sorry, can I get another read 74 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: on this name? 75 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: Publius Quinticillus Varus. 76 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 1: Yeah what. I can't believe these people had a whole empire. 77 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: I know the name of their kids. Publius pabilius. It 78 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: might be pabilious, heabilius. Yeah, oh my god, but I 79 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: think it's Publius. 80 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, the only saving grace of our empire said, at 81 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: least I get to choose my own dumbass name. I 82 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 1: chose this one for myself. You cannot you give that 83 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: to my mom? 84 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: Yeah? Glad that the non binary empire that will slowly 85 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: cock anyway, that's unrelated. So Publius Quintacilius Varus, who I'm 86 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: gonna call virus from now on until I get bored 87 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 2: and start calling him Publius to make fun of him. 88 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 2: He's a Nepo baby. I think that probably was implied. 89 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: He's a nepo baby Roman administrator. 90 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's how they all are. 91 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 92 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: Oh, he's not even a general, he's just a fucking 93 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: been counter. 94 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: So he's kind of both. And he's not good at 95 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: being a general, but he's in charge of whole provinces. 96 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: So well, I was gonna say, you got a hand 97 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: to him for being bad at being a general, but 98 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: then you said he was in charge of all provinces. 99 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 2: And the armies therein. Yeah. Yeah, but also it makes 100 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 2: me feeling better. He wasn't very good as an administrator either. 101 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,800 Speaker 1: You know, there's really nothing like having an empire run 102 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: by schmucks. There's nothing like having an empire run by schmucks. 103 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,360 Speaker 2: Just Nepo, baby is all the way down. 104 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: That's really how you that's how it is, your ass 105 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: handed to you. 106 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 2: Uh huh. We never learned this, No, we really really don't, 107 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: especially like watching modern fascists try to recreate, like yeah, 108 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: putting their kids in charge of everything, right. 109 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 1: But that's the thing is either trying to recreate the 110 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: Roman Empire, the Roman Empire famously. 111 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 2: Phil I know, I know ed, We'll do it again, 112 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: do it again. By Jove, one day I'll do the 113 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: Goths taken down the Roman Empire. But it's not as 114 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: clean and nice of a story as I want it 115 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 2: to be. 116 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: You're just a fucking goth. Yeah, wowed that story to 117 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: be good. You should write the historical fan fiction that 118 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 1: you desire. 119 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: I want to see in the world. That's a good idea, 120 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: and then I'll just present it as a nonfiction on 121 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 2: this show and there'll be no ethical problems with that. No. 122 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: Have you ever had a guest on the show and 123 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: told them an entirely fake story? No? 124 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 2: When I think about it, at least once a week. 125 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 2: That's my Roman Empire is thinking about how I want 126 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,160 Speaker 2: to write fiction and present to this fact on cool 127 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 2: people who did cool stuff. But I just can't bring 128 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: myself to do it. I love you all too much, 129 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: dear listeners, to do what I want to do to you. 130 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 1: The only person stopping you is you. 131 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: I know. I'm a fucking paladin. It's awful. 132 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: I'm ruined, and if you enjoy Margaret being a paladin, 133 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: you should go listen too. 134 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 2: Ah, well done. 135 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: I know I'm learning. 136 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 2: I play a spite a champion, which is basically a paladin. 137 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 2: But pathfinder. 138 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, back from plugging our other shit. 139 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, like the Scourge of the earth, so old Publius. 140 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: He married the emperor's grand niece and so he got promoted. 141 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: What good she's probably honestly, he probably didn't care one 142 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 2: way or the other, which is fine, but not in 143 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 2: a respectful way, but in a I just because I 144 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: want to do grift. He absolutely just wants to do grift. 145 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: This man is driven by one thing. 146 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: How do you think she felt about that arrangement. Do 147 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: you think she was like, hell, yeah, now I also 148 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: get to do what I want? Or was she like, 149 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 1: I'm a simp who wants a husband who loves me, 150 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: but I will never have such a thing because I 151 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: have been born into evil nobility. 152 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 2: I guess that's a question of like how good he 153 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: was at grift, And there's a period where he seems 154 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 2: to be good at it, but I think it was 155 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: just luck. So either she's as incapable as him and 156 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: she's totally define with it, or she's competent and pretty 157 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 2: sad she's straddled with such a loser. 158 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope that she was happy. 159 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: I hope so, uh, well do I I don't know 160 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 2: if I hope, so, I hope she hated him, and 161 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: in which case I hope she was happy because he's 162 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: the actual bad guy. 163 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: But with a name like Publius, that's a fucking asshole. 164 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: I know. It's just you can't win. It's nominative determinism 165 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: that you just need to be bullied, and he had 166 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 2: to go to Germania to get bullied. He rolled over 167 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: what's now Tunisia for a year or two in like 168 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: eight to seven BCE, and then he got sent over 169 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 2: to Syria, which meant he was in charge of the 170 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: largest chunk of the Roman army, and he was corrupt 171 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 2: as hell. One of his contemporaries wrote about him, quote, 172 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: Varis entered the rich province a poor man, and left 173 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: the poor province a rich man. That's a swindler, I know, 174 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: and some good wordplay. Yeah, he got sidelined for a while. 175 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: People are kind of like, we don't know what happened 176 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 2: to him for twelve years and then in the autumn 177 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: of six CE he was named the governor of Germania. Notably, 178 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 2: Germania wasn't really a province at this point, but it 179 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: was germanizing, as we were talking about with that town. 180 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: Sorry, was it germanizing or was it romanizing? 181 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 2: Romanizing? That's what it was. Doing it was absolutely romanizing as. 182 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: Long as it wasn't womanizing. 183 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: Now, well not very effectively. They were monogamous and only 184 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: got married late. 185 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: Oh that's right. 186 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: The position of governor in Germania was only like twenty 187 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: years old at this point, and the Romans have been 188 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 2: playing softball with the Germans up to this point, lots 189 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,280 Speaker 2: of I hate that expression. Softball isn't like baseball is 190 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 2: not a hard, scary sport. What a weird playing softball? Whatever? Okay, 191 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: I take it back. 192 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: If softball is for dikes and playing softball should mean 193 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: eating a pussy. 194 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 2: I think that's true, and also probably why the German 195 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: women didn't remarry after their husbands. Oh no, my husband died. 196 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,920 Speaker 2: Whatever will I do? Oh you're a widow too. Oh 197 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 2: you're not a widow yet. Here's some poison anyway. So 198 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: there's lots of trade going on with Germania and they're 199 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: romanizing slowly, and Varus is like, now fuck that, I'm 200 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: the fucking boss. Motherfuckers are going to start paying tribute. 201 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 2: I'm gonna treat you like you're basically enslaved. And there's 202 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: eleven legions of Romans stationed there. So sixty six thousand soldiers, 203 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: just a lot of Roman soldiers, so they can kind 204 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 2: of get away with it for a little while. People 205 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: start to grumble, but Varus wouldn't believe the grumblings. He 206 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: was utterly convinced. Again, every source agrees on this, but 207 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: I'm also like, I don't know, I haven't read his writing, 208 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 2: but whatever. 209 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, all two sources. 210 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, all two sources. Yeah. And then there are like 211 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 2: some other ones like on this. Like it's like like 212 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 2: that guy who said the clever thing about he was corrupt, 213 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 2: you know, right, But he's convinced that his army is 214 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 2: invincible and that his subjects are fine with everything that's 215 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: happening to them. 216 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 1: So that's a bad combo. 217 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: It's a real bad combo. It's especially a bad combo 218 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: when eight of your eleven legions are about to leave. Yeah, 219 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,479 Speaker 2: because there was some shit popping off in either Bohemia 220 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 2: or Chechia southeast of Germania. They just took all the 221 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: old names and added i A to them. Oh my god, 222 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: they did. I was about to say, like Britannia, and 223 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: I'm like no, yeah, no, that's what they scott Landia, Nedelinzia, Arlandia, Irelandia, Portlandia. Ah, 224 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: Portlandia is actually a Roman province. This explains a lot. 225 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 2: So some shit's popping off in Chechia, and eight of 226 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: the eleven legions are sent off east and just leaves 227 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 2: Varus with three legions and about a total of twenty 228 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: thousand soldiers. Three legions and a bunch of auxiliaries, but 229 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,320 Speaker 2: a lot of the auxiliaries are German, and that's going 230 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 2: to come up. Oh sick Arminius. He is down to 231 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: play politics and his dad, the chief of the tribe, 232 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: start hanging out with Varus, and they just show up 233 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: and they come in like just straight bootleguers. They're like, oh, Varus, 234 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 2: you're so good at this, You're such a good administrator. 235 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 2: Oh we're all so grateful that you're here to treat 236 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 2: us like shit. Varus, you're doing so good. And Varus 237 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 2: just eats this shit up. He fucking buys it everything 238 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 2: they're selling. Meanwhile, a coalition of four or five tribes 239 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: is coming together to fight the Romans, the Cheruscans, the Marcie, 240 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,720 Speaker 2: the Broctarians, and the Chatty. 241 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: At least I like the Chatties. I know that's the 242 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: one I'd be a part of the chatty Kathys. 243 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is actually probably their full name 244 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 2: is the chatty Kathys. 245 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: Oh, and that's where that term comes from. 246 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. 247 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: Everyone. When my elementary school teachers accuse me of being 248 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:54,680 Speaker 1: a chatty kathy, I should have turned them and said, 249 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 1: you mean like the old German tribes. 250 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, that turned and destroyed an empire, or at least 251 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: drove an empire out. 252 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: Gossip saves lives. 253 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: Gossip does save lives, and in this case, gossip tried 254 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: to save the Romans lives because they had a problem. 255 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 2: They had this coalition. They're going to lure virus into 256 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 2: a trap and then just like murder or that shit 257 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 2: out of all the Roman legions. That's their plan. Yeah, 258 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 2: but there's a problem with their plan. There's a snitch 259 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 2: because our minius has an enemy and it's his father 260 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 2: in law. But I think not yet. I actually think 261 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 2: he marries his wife after this battle, but it's his 262 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: father in law to. 263 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: Be Oh shit, can't trust that men laws? 264 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: No, absolutely not, especially especially not this one. His wife's 265 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: name is Thusnelda, which is a sick name. 266 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,199 Speaker 1: That fucking rules. After my next Pathfinder character, all the 267 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: Grimes or whatever, so Sneld is next. 268 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, by most accounts, and again they're gonna get married 269 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: later in the story, but I'm not one hundred percent 270 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: certain about that, And this is where I wrote it 271 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: into the script. By most accounts, the two of them 272 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 2: in love and are close to each other and similar 273 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 2: in temperament. There's like whole things about how she like 274 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 2: doesn't cry because she's so tough, because she's a hard 275 00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 2: primitive or whatever the fuck you know. 276 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, people got weird opinions. 277 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I run across one of the problems with 278 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: reading this history when it comes to Thussenelda, because by 279 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 2: and large, people who write about this era are let's 280 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: go with conservative, that's the nice way to say it. Yeah, 281 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 2: But here's where we run into an interesting split in 282 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: modern types of conservative. Guy. Oh, some fascists love Rome 283 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: and they're so pro Rome, and they hate all the 284 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 2: barbarians in this story. Other fascists love Germany and they 285 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: love the good and noble Barbarians, not the weak, effeminate Romans, 286 00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 2: and therefore our minius can do no wrong. 287 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 3: Oh shit. 288 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: And the easiest way to know which soorce' reading is 289 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 2: to read about how they talk about Thusnelda. Yeah, either Arminius, 290 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: that dastardly rogue, kidnapped Thusnelda or the two of them 291 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: eloped without her father in law's consent. Uh huh. I 292 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: believe it's the latter. I believe that people wrote about 293 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: it as kidnapping because she was her father's property. Yeah, 294 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 2: Arminius and thusneld are married, but possibly not till later. 295 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 2: And this is either why her dad Segates is really mad. 296 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 1: Sorry Segates, Yes, Segates, Segees Nuts, Oh you're welcome. 297 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 2: So Segaty's Nuts is really mad about this, and he 298 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 2: goes to Varus and he's all ready to snitch out 299 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: and he's like, there's a conspiracy against you, and it's 300 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: run by Arminius. But what he didn't know is that 301 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 2: there was a conspiracy. And the conspiracy is all of 302 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: the people who are trying to stop you from buying 303 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 2: everything that is sold. There is a conspiracy against you, 304 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 2: dear listener, trying to stop you from hearing what our 305 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 2: advertisers have to say. 306 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: They're the dirty reds. They're trying to destroy the free market. 307 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, and so you can stick it to the 308 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 2: man by no, just don't sports gamble. It's just a 309 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: bad idea. Regular gamble if you want to, unless you 310 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 2: have a problem with it. But sports gamble on your phone. 311 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 2: Don't do it. Just no gambling should happen on your phone. 312 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: We gamble and casinos like man. 313 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 2: Unlike those weak Romans. Here's ads. So our Minia shows up. 314 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: We're sorry, not Arminia, says Segs. It's not name that 315 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 2: his name. Segaties goes to Varus and it's like, there's 316 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 2: a conspiracy against you, and Varus just fucking ignores it. No, 317 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 2: they're like, oh, that guy's just jealous and just straight 318 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 2: up ignores it. Seganies doubles down and is like, look, 319 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: I care about Rome. I don't know why I'm a 320 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: boot liquor. I just love the taste. Just arrest all 321 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: of the German leaders, even me, and then you can 322 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: sort out who's guilty later, Like you can arrest me 323 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: because I knew about this. And Varus is like, no, 324 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 2: everyone actually loves me. Arminius keeps telling me that everyone 325 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,880 Speaker 2: loves me, so it must be true. 326 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: What in fucking I hate everybody in the story. I 327 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 1: know none of these people are cool people. These are 328 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: all bad people who do sort of cool thing. 329 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: No, absolutely, Arminius like, yeah, he's gonna get his because 330 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: he didn't read talking. But Arminius gets this guy's total trust. 331 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 2: Varus is like, I fucking love you, Arminius, And so 332 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: Arminius is like, Varus, there actually is a rebellion brewing, 333 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 2: just not us good tribes. It's the bad tribes. In fact, 334 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: we should take all three legions and start putting down 335 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 2: this rebellion. And so our Minius convinces Varus to start 336 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: quartering troops in people's houses in the rebellious territory to be. 337 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 1: Like, oh, people famously hate. 338 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: That, yeah, and then go on a big long march 339 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 2: and they're actually, well, there is a rebellion, but it's 340 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 2: not the one that they think. Yeah, although ironically it 341 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 2: is actually the rebellious households. We'll get to that. And 342 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,840 Speaker 2: then we're gonna go on this big long march where 343 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: all twenty thousand troops and all of their like, all 344 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 2: their families and shit come along too, and they have 345 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,439 Speaker 2: their families and their servants. And our Minius is like, 346 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:33,679 Speaker 2: you know, it's a long it's a long march. We 347 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 2: go all the way around that forest. What if we 348 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: went through Tuttenberg Forest. What if I know a short cut, 349 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,320 Speaker 2: you can trust me? 350 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:44,640 Speaker 1: Not a short cut? 351 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 2: And Virus is like, sure, whatever you say, I am 352 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 2: so unintelligent that it'll forever change history. Oh god, and 353 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: like like literally, like that's just like unless this story 354 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 2: is being written in a way where Varus is just 355 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: being painted as a but everyone is like this is 356 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: this guy? 357 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened was that I laughed so hard that 358 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:07,880 Speaker 1: I hiccuped. 359 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: And so the shortcut they took was rough going. The 360 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 2: paths were narrow, leaving the army stretched out across miles 361 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 2: and miles of dense forest. 362 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: Mm hm. 363 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,719 Speaker 2: They had to fell trees and build bridges, and they 364 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 2: also like built roads literally they found like survey steaks 365 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 2: and stuff like that. Later, whoa, and the winds were wild, 366 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 2: and a storm picked up, and the wind and rain 367 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 2: made Roman bows nearly useless. The mud made their armor 368 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 2: an impediment because they're wearing a fucked on of weight, right, 369 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 2: And the narrow path meant that they couldn't form the 370 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 2: formations that made them so legendary and open conflict and 371 00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: so Arminius and his dad, as well as probably the 372 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 2: German soldiers embedded in the army, like the auxiliaries that 373 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: they worked with. They just slip out at some point 374 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 2: to go joined the ambush that's coming. Meanwhile, all those 375 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 2: troops that are quartered in people's houses, all the people 376 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 2: living in those houses just slaughter the troops at. 377 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: Night, sick. Yeah, no notes. 378 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, don't quarter people's houses. I don't know what to 379 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: tell you. 380 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: It's in our constitution. I don't think we'll be able 381 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: to use that one this time. 382 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, if they break that one, we're good. 383 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 1: This was hammered over my head like several different years 384 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: of elementary school histories that they really hated it when 385 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: the British Empire put troops in people's homes in the 386 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds. Yeah, and it was like a feature of 387 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: why we broke away from them. 388 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. 389 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: So I don't know, but fascists are dumb and cowardly, 390 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: and I hate spending government money for whatever reason. So 391 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,639 Speaker 1: who knows, who knows what we're in for. 392 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 2: I think what would work in the modern era is 393 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: the like sucking up and being like everyone loves you. 394 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 2: I think that those people would absolutely fall for some flattery. 395 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 1: Absolutely, I'm sure that they are, and I'm also sure 396 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: that the people doing that are not necessarily on our team. 397 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: I think they're probably just going to continue to strip 398 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 1: the copper wiring out of the proverbial house of the government. 399 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: I think you're right, unfortunately, but okay, So all the 400 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 2: people get slaughtered while they're middle of the night wherever 401 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 2: they're quartered, so there's no reinforcements coming for the legions now, 402 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 2: and then the main force while it's spread out over 403 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 2: like I've read four or five miles, I've read like 404 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: eight miles. They're spread out over a long way. The 405 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 2: four or five tribes sneak up, throw javelins into the 406 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: Romans and then just like harassed and killed them. It's probable, 407 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 2: and this is actually a Roman tactic that they used. 408 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,920 Speaker 2: They built a zig zag defensive wall about four feet tall. 409 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 2: And the reason that zigzag is so you have like 410 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 2: two angles of attack at any given time from each 411 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: place here around. 412 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: Oh. Interesting, that's good. 413 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 2: I know. Star fortresses are a thing where people were like, oh, 414 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: the best defensive system is not a circle, it's a 415 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 2: star fortress. 416 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. The Trays Italians. Oh shit, this is in that 417 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: John Darneil book. 418 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:11,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, you're right. Everyone read Wolf in White 419 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 2: Van if. 420 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: You want, If you want, it was a fine book. Yeah, 421 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 1: but uh, pod alum of cool people. 422 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 2: It's true. And so basically, archaeologists found this four foot 423 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 2: high wall and it was probably used as cover for 424 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 2: the assault, and later archaeological finds show that the Roman 425 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: artifacts like go up to the wall but not over it. 426 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 2: So this is like where they like tried to storm 427 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 2: this four foot wall and just kept getting killed. 428 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and they didn't like move the bodies. 429 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: So I'll talk about what happens to the bodies. Several 430 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 2: people are going to get involved with the bodies in 431 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: various ways. 432 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 433 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,480 Speaker 2: All right, Yeah. The pop history of this moment, the 434 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,360 Speaker 2: one that most people say is that the Germans were 435 00:21:55,359 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 2: wildly outnumbered, but through sheer barbarian strength and cunning they 436 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 2: beat the Romans. Realistically, the Germans almost certainly outnumbered the 437 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 2: Romans and got constant reinforcements. Or I read that from 438 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: someone who was a pro Roman analyst, because again, everyone 439 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 2: has sides here. By and large, the Germans fought only 440 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,159 Speaker 2: with short spears, which were excellent in the dense woods. 441 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 2: And it's because like you kin'd have to be rich 442 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 2: to have a sword. Yeah, and the Romans fled as 443 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: quickly as they could, and they built a hasty formation 444 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 2: that they defended through the night. Quite possibly that even 445 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 2: the Barbarians were like, we're not going to bother attacking 446 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 2: you in the middle of a wild wind and rainstorm 447 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: at night in the woods, because like, we can't fucking 448 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: see who we're fighting, you know. Yeah, But as soon 449 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 2: as dawn broke, the Barbarians stormed the Romans camp and 450 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 2: sent them into a wild retreat for three more days. 451 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: Oh shit. 452 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 2: And it's possible that this was a sort of orderly 453 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:53,040 Speaker 2: thing with the Romans, like marching, and then you know, 454 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 2: they try and get they're trying to get sixty miles 455 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 2: to their nearest formation, and they last another three days 456 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 2: of marching. But it's also possible it probably started that 457 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 2: way and soon enough was just like a three day 458 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: route where people are being hunted down and killed in 459 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 2: the woods. 460 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, sure. 461 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 2: On the fourth day, some people think it was the 462 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 2: third day, and the Roman historian made a typo I 463 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,119 Speaker 2: think this was Tacitus not cashiest day, but I can't remember, 464 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: because nothing happened on the third day. It's like on 465 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: the first day this and the second day this and 466 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 2: on the fourth. 467 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: Day, you know, well the third day he rises from 468 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: the grave. 469 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 2: Oh right, that's actually probably what happened. On the fourth day, 470 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 2: the brave Roman officers like Varas killed themselves to avoid 471 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,400 Speaker 2: capture and torture, and so all their soldiers were like, well, fuck, 472 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 2: what do we do? What do we do now? Pretty 473 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 2: much they were all slaughtered. Falling on your sword was 474 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: its style and the time for Roman officers. To be clear, 475 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: it wasn't like a like they were uniquely cowardly or 476 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 2: noble or whatever. They were doing what they were sort 477 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 2: of told to do, and there were barely any survivors, 478 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 2: and the ones that were simply ran the fuck away. 479 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 2: Like the survivors basically like who fled at the very beginning, 480 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 2: some of them made it to the rhine and like 481 00:23:57,960 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: told what happened? 482 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. 483 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 2: No one else survived because remember how sane, how accepting 484 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: surrender as a relatively new technology, right? 485 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: Yeah? 486 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,640 Speaker 2: Who yeah, No, it's twenty thousand soldiers plus a lot 487 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 2: of other people. Six years later, some Romans returned to 488 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 2: the scene of the slaughter and they found again, according 489 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 2: to a Roman historian, so who knows if this is true, 490 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: but it probably is. They found that the Roman soldiers 491 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: had had their heads nailed to trees and that others 492 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 2: were sacrificed on bloody altars or burned alive. Whoa fuck, 493 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 2: Yeah they were barbarians. Yeah. But also, like again the 494 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: thing that you've run across over and over in history 495 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 2: where pro imperial sources will always play up the like 496 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 2: brutality of the people that they want to go genocide, 497 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 2: Because that army that says that they found these things 498 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 2: was literally trying to genocide the Germans. They went back 499 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 2: to kill all of them. They were like, we're just 500 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 2: going to get rid of German me and Germans. It 501 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 2: was a big part of their plan. They're not going 502 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 2: to succeed. We'll get to that. Meanwhile, the Germans find 503 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,679 Speaker 2: Varus's body and they cut off his head and they 504 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 2: sent his head to this guy in Checchia, king marrow Baduz, 505 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: hoping that he would join in their revolt. But the 506 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 2: Czech king actually just turned around in boot liquor form 507 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: and sent Varis' head onto Rome because he's trying to 508 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 2: play nice with Rome at this point. 509 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, as you do. 510 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 2: But do you know you can get ahead, Oh. 511 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: I see what you did there. 512 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you. You can listen to ads or 513 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: actually can get ahead faster if you just press the 514 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 2: skip ahead button a couple times and we're back. So 515 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 2: this defeat in Tunenberg Forest, twenty thousand soldiers, and no 516 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 2: one bothered to count all of the non soldiers who 517 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 2: were there. Why would anyone count that? Literally no source 518 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 2: even bothered to guess how many civilians in this, Like, 519 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: no one even bothered. Fuck anyway, this fucked Rome up. 520 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 2: Rome was like, we are invincible, that's our thing. But 521 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 2: more than ten percent of the entire military had just 522 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,040 Speaker 2: been destroyed over the course of four days, which is 523 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 2: literally a decimation. Augustus the Caesar, he lost his fucking shit. 524 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: He would apparently, according to some sources, and this is 525 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,040 Speaker 2: like his famous quote about this, he would roam around 526 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,399 Speaker 2: beating his head against the wall, shouting, Varus, give me 527 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: back my legions. 528 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 1: Just so creative. I knew, Wow, they should have. It 529 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 1: was really a good move to put him and control 530 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:40,880 Speaker 1: an entire empire. 531 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: I think that one person should be in charge of everything. 532 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,280 Speaker 2: I think that's a good plan with no downsides. 533 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 1: I think it's a fine plan. I just think they've 534 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 1: got to have more style, like quote, verus give me 535 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: back my allegiance. He can do better. That's the first draft. 536 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 1: Edit it a little more, come back with more flair. 537 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 2: Well, he's also going to invent the rom com trope 538 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: of man loses his shit and stops shaving. Oh, because 539 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 2: for months he stops getting his haircut or shaving because 540 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 2: he's so distraught that he can't bring himself to do 541 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 2: basic grooming. 542 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: Uh, you know, depression, Queen, I've been there too early. 543 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: Yeah. And because fascist governments never change. Back in Rome, 544 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 2: all the Germans and Gauls in the city were thrown out, 545 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 2: as if they had had something to do with it. 546 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: German and Gaulish soldiers in the Roman Army were sent 547 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 2: to go protect remote islands so that if they rose up, 548 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: it wouldn't be a big deal. Oh yeah, it's like 549 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,280 Speaker 2: such a nothing ever changes, fucking nightmare things. 550 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. 551 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 2: That town, the trading town, built in four AD, was 552 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: deserted within months of the Battle of Tutburg. Someone burned 553 00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: it to the ground, probably the deserting Romans because they 554 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 2: didn't want it to fall into German hands. 555 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 556 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,879 Speaker 2: Then someone, presumably the Germans, busted up that bronze, do 557 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 2: you and repurpose the metal and sacrifice the horse head 558 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: to the water gods in the well? And if you're 559 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: going to sacrifice horses, it should probably be bronze horseheads. Yeah, 560 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: that's my hot take. 561 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: Right, I mean, the only unethical thing there is wasting 562 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: raw material. Bronze is valuable and useful, but you know 563 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: you're not killing a horse. 564 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: I mean it's like literally the idea of sacrifice, right, 565 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 2: is you take something out of the productive economy. Like 566 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 2: that's like it's like thing as you're saying, like, I'm 567 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 2: going to be unproductive with this. Rome didn't take the 568 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: loss of Germania lying down or of three legions. They 569 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 2: sent a general named Germanicus to go conquer Germania, which 570 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 2: feels a little on the nose, I would agree. 571 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: Again, scriptwriters, can we just get something a little bit better? 572 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: You would think he inherited the honorific name from his father, 573 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: who had tried to extend the Roman border to the north. 574 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:02,440 Speaker 2: And while he's up there marching's Neelda's dad kidnaps his 575 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: own pregnant daughter and gives her to Germanicus into slavery. 576 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: Fuck that also, I forgot about the Snelda and thank 577 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: you for the reminder. 578 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, good fucking name, good fucking name. 579 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: Fucked up that her dad did that. 580 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: I know. This is part of why I'm like, I 581 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: don't think Ourminia is kidnapped, Thusnelda. I think Thusnelda kidnapped 582 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: herself away from her fucking dad. 583 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: Found like her dad fucking sucks. Yeah, good thing he's dead. 584 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 3: I know. 585 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 2: That's a nice thing about all of these motherfuckers. Arminius 586 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 2: never saw her again. 587 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: You never saw never saw her again. 588 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: You also never met his kid. And uh, I think 589 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 2: as Tacitus wrote about the kid being like it was 590 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: a boy, and then Tacitus was like, and when he 591 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 2: was three, Well, I'll tell you that in a different book. 592 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: Oh my god, did he write it? 593 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 2: We don't know. Fuck yeah, there's so many things that 594 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: Tastas is like, I'll get to that later. And then like, 595 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: there's a lot of books we don't have, and a 596 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 2: lot of books that might not have ever been written. 597 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: Oh like they just didn't survive. 598 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: Yeah all right, Yeah, so it might not have been 599 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 2: a Georgia R. Martin thing. It might be like, although, 600 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: actually mean, what if Georgia R. Martin actually did finish 601 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:07,800 Speaker 2: writing it, and he just finished writing it at the 602 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,520 Speaker 2: end of the Iron Age and it was destroyed. 603 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: I really wouldn't be surprised if George R. Martin was 604 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: secretly somehow transported from the Roman Empire that feels energetically aligned. 605 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, the r RS is Romulus and remiss. 606 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: I believe that canonically to be true if you go 607 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: on his Wikipedia page. Yeah, well, I mean that this 608 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: is finestly like the crux of a lot of Game 609 00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 1: of Thrones. Lare right is like, did ned Stark's sister 610 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,080 Speaker 1: get kidnapped by the guy or did she kidnap herself? 611 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 2: Oh? Fuck? Yeah. Like I said, Game of Thrones is 612 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 2: way more ancient world than medieval, despite it being like 613 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: technologically medieval. And depending on the bias of your source, 614 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 2: you're gonna get different accounts of Germanicus's fairly long war 615 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 2: in Germany. Most Roman sources are like, we won and 616 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: the because they sure killed a lot of Germans, but 617 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 2: it was a stalemate, and a stalemate favors the defenders. 618 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 2: Germanicus eventually goes back across the Rhine, but his whole 619 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 2: thing is that he was like not necessarily there to 620 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 2: conquer Germany. But I don't know. I think Rome wan 621 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 2: in Germany, but he was kind of as captured the 622 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 2: flag thing. Each legion had a gold eagle standard, and 623 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: so there's three of them, and they managed to recapture 624 00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: two of them. And that's the like we did it, guys, 625 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 2: Like he's standing on the aircraft carrier with the like 626 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 2: you know, mission accomplished. But Arminius led a lot of 627 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 2: the revolt against Germanicus and did like really clever shit, 628 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,239 Speaker 2: like divert streams and rivers to flood fields so that 629 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 2: the battlefields were like marshy, so that it favors the 630 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 2: barbarians instead of the Roman legions. 631 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,600 Speaker 1: Interesting because of the armor and the mud. 632 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, Rome didn't know how to fight a guerrilla war 633 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 2: in the forest and bog They never conquered Germany. Instead, 634 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 2: they kind of stayed happy to let the Germans fight 635 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,560 Speaker 2: each other endlessly. Later, Rome figured out a better way 636 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 2: to grow strong. Rather than conquering places directly, You let 637 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 2: immigrants from those places come in, let them become citizens 638 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,160 Speaker 2: after serving in the military, and then give them land 639 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 2: in some colony somewhere, So you make your enemy die 640 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: for you and expand your empire for you. But Arminius, 641 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 2: I promised you his. 642 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: End, Yes, give it to me. 643 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 2: He wound up chief of his tribe, and he was 644 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 2: basically trying to be in charge of everyone. 645 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:44,719 Speaker 1: Skeptical. 646 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it didn't work out for him. Tacitus wrote that 647 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 2: Arminius quote found himself opposed and aiming at the throne 648 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 2: by his countryman's independent spirit. He was assailed by armed force, 649 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: and while fighting with various success, fell the treachery of 650 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: his kinsmen. So it was literally his own clan was like, 651 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 2: oh shit, not fuck you. You're not fucking in charge of everyone. 652 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 2: We didn't fight this whole ass war against having a 653 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 2: fucking emperor to have a king. 654 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck off, reasonable position, I know. 655 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 2: And yeah, they wanted him when he could drive off 656 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: a tyrant, not when he wanted to become one. Yeah, 657 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 2: if he had read Lord of the Rings, he would 658 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 2: have known. 659 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: He would have known. 660 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, for thousands of years, no one knew exactly where 661 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,239 Speaker 2: this battle took place. I think we're still not one 662 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 2: hundred percent sure, but I think we're most of the 663 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 2: way there. I read scientific articles that are like, we're 664 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 2: almost ready to know that this is the right place, 665 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: But I didn't find the follow up articles. You know, Yeah, 666 00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 2: because in nineteen eighty seven, a guy with a metal 667 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:47,800 Speaker 2: detector who was looking for ancient Roman shit. He was 668 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 2: looking for this, but he had a metal Detector's just 669 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: a guy with a metal detector. And he found a 670 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 2: fuck ton of coins one weekend, one hundred and five 671 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: coins in a week shit, and none of them were 672 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 2: newer than the reign of Augustus. 673 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 3: Wow. 674 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 2: And then he found all kinds of legions on the 675 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: march stuff, like a legion is sixty centuries and a 676 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,840 Speaker 2: century as one hundred soldiers. Yeah, although I think later 677 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,040 Speaker 2: they move it down to sixty soldiers, but I can't remember. 678 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 2: Don't quote me on that. I just wantly read that 679 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,200 Speaker 2: shit so I can write weird dark age's fiction or 680 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: iron age fiction. Each century had what was called a signifier, 681 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 2: which is a person who is the standard bearer, and 682 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 2: they look sick as hell. They wear silver face masks 683 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: and bear and lion furs. 684 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: Oh sorry what yeah? What? Yeah, this is the only 685 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: thing of silent substance that I've heard all episode. 686 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,319 Speaker 2: Yeah. No, the Roman signifiers looked sick as hell, and 687 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,880 Speaker 2: symbols were so fucking important, Like the signifier, I think 688 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: didn't even have a weapon. They had like the stick 689 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 2: that like the standard. Yeah, and then they also had 690 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 2: a buckler like a little shield, and they had to 691 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,800 Speaker 2: be at the front lines. 692 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: God awful. 693 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 2: And if your signifier died in your century, then like 694 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,759 Speaker 2: you suck, your legion is disgraced. So everyone's trying to 695 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,720 Speaker 2: defend you at least. 696 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: Okay. Is it a job that goes to like the 697 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: new guy he doesn't know how to fight yet, or 698 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: is a job that goes to like the guy who's 699 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: been around for a while and is like the most popular. 700 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 2: I don't know, no, I actually can't remember. But it's 701 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 2: funny because this would matter a lot because the way 702 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 2: that Rome did their legions is you put the new 703 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 2: people on the front line and then this line behind 704 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,920 Speaker 2: them is that people have a little bit of experience 705 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 2: and then the people behind them are like the real FETs. 706 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 2: But I actually I don't remember about the signifiers. And 707 00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,359 Speaker 2: Arminius is considered a national hero in Germany except now 708 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 2: because most people don't want national heroes in Germany. 709 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: Again a reasonable position. 710 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 2: But the people who are using it for German nationalism 711 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 2: are of course doing it wrong. They're like, isn't it 712 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 2: cool that our Manius prove that Germans are like biologically 713 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 2: superior to Romans, gross rather than isn't it cool that 714 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 2: he organized a bunch of groups of people to come 715 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 2: together and kick out an invading force and probably we 716 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 2: shouldn't have invading forces. And also when he reached too 717 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,279 Speaker 2: close to the sun, the other barbarians were like, you're 718 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 2: not better than us, bud. 719 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: Hellia, No, I like you read a lot more. 720 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, I. 721 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: Don't even think it's like a stretch of like how 722 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: to narrate that story? 723 00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to be like. No, 724 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 2: it's just like the true barbarian spirit is not letting 725 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:34,839 Speaker 2: Arminius fucking take control, like right. Martin Luther, the older one. 726 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 1: Protestant guy nailed ninety five theieces to a door. 727 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, one at a time. He was really into Arminius 728 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: because he's really into fighting the influence of Roman Germany. 729 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 730 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 2: And he renamed Arminius with a good German name, German name, 731 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 2: Herman the German. 732 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 1: Oh what is that? In German? 733 00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 2: They don't call him Herman the German, and German they 734 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,319 Speaker 2: just call Herman. And it's just a way to make 735 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 2: fun of him is to call Herman the German because 736 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:03,440 Speaker 2: it sounds dumb. 737 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, because Germans don't call themselves Germans. 738 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,200 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's Dutsland or something. Yeah, I don't know. 739 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 2: I actually don't know. I should, but I don't. 740 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: So they're saying it's only Herman the German in non yeah, 741 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: in non German languages. Right, you've in fact lied to. 742 00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 2: Me potentially, but it's still Herman. In the nineteenth century, 743 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: you have German unification under Ottovon Bismarck, and that creates 744 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,880 Speaker 2: Germany as a thing, and they are really Bismarck and 745 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,399 Speaker 2: all those people are really and Arminius yeah, and he's 746 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 2: right wing as fuck. From eighteen seventy five to eighteen 747 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,879 Speaker 2: eighty six, the largest statue in the world was an 748 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 2: eighty seven foot high statue of the Mighty Herman. 749 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 1: Yuck. 750 00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the Nazis fucking loved the shit. The statue 751 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,319 Speaker 2: is still around. Nazis still go and pilgrimage to this fucking. 752 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: Statue eighty feet. 753 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,800 Speaker 2: Eighty seven feet yeah. No, it was the largest statue 754 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 2: in the world and it's on an even higher pedestal. 755 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 756 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 2: It wasn't until the Statue of Liberty that there was 757 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 2: a larger statue. Wow, and a statue has inscribed on 758 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,799 Speaker 2: its sword to some right wing shit, German unity is 759 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,320 Speaker 2: my strength. My strength is Germany's might. Nazis promoted a 760 00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 2: version of Herman entirely divorced from reality and use it 761 00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: to promote racism and nationalism. And like, there's like some 762 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: stuff has been written about this. There's other people who 763 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,879 Speaker 2: kind of people don't like talking about this. Historians don't 764 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 2: like being like, my cool guy, what did you do 765 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 2: to my boy? You know? 766 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,200 Speaker 1: But look how they have massacred my son. 767 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. When I told what I was covering into, one 768 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 2: of my friends is a history nerd and a theory 769 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 2: nerd that into shit that's over my head. He quoted 770 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 2: to me a Walter Benjumin quote about history where it's 771 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,399 Speaker 2: like something like even the dead or not safe about 772 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 2: how like, yeah, they will come even for the dead. 773 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 2: He was actually talking about the Nazis. He was like, 774 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: unless we beat the Nazis, even are dead or not 775 00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 2: safe from the Nazis. 776 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what better motivation? I know. 777 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,600 Speaker 2: I remember at one point during an early anti Nazi 778 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 2: rally in a city even more than the like known 779 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 2: anti fascist crew or whatever. The first people at the 780 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,360 Speaker 2: demo were the local Heima crew, the local historical European 781 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 2: martial arts group yea, and they were there and they're 782 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 2: like fucking armor and they were like folding signs that 783 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:26,640 Speaker 2: said like Heathen's against hate. Oh yeah, and they like 784 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,839 Speaker 2: you know, started making sure to like intentionally flag being 785 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,439 Speaker 2: like like yeah, people are like, hey, I'm into Norse 786 00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 2: paganism or whatever, but fuck Nazis, like right, yeah, yeah. 787 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 2: The two thousandth anniversary of the battle did not get 788 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 2: much of a celebration in Germany because Nazis ruined everything. Ahhh. 789 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: And it's a shame because it was pretty sick that 790 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,800 Speaker 2: they tricked all those fucking Romans and then. 791 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: Like, yeah, why can't we have nice things? 792 00:39:58,440 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 2: Nazis that's the answer. 793 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:01,440 Speaker 1: You got to be an ass hat. I know. 794 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:04,080 Speaker 2: Well that's my story. 795 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 1: It's a good story. Thank you for sharing it with 796 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: me today. 797 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, if people want to hear another good yarn, you 798 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 2: got anything? 799 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 3: Uh no, do you? 800 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 2: Oh well, actually people can listen to me alone play 801 00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: Pathfinder by myself on cool Zone Media. Because according to 802 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,479 Speaker 2: the Great Woman of History theory, I actually do everything good. 803 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,399 Speaker 1: That's true. It's funny because if you look deep enough, 804 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: you are actually me and I am just a puppet 805 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: being operated by your other hand. And you not only 806 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: wrote a script today, you also wrote your own guests. 807 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you're actually a very good actor. I hired 808 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 2: you to read the script that I wrote. 809 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've been just lying about when existence entire time. 810 00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, and every other guest on the show. That's the 811 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 2: worst part is this entirely scripted show. 812 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, wonder people are burning out, not you, but 813 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: just people in general. 814 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the best secret to avoiding burnout is to 815 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 2: pay a nominal amount of attention to the news and 816 00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 2: then lose yourself reading history all the time. 817 00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:10,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that's healthy. And I think the other 818 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 1: best way to avoid burnat is to listen to Margaret 819 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 1: and I and some other people who don't matter Playpathfinder. Yeah, 820 00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: doesn't matter. It's really nice to have stuff that doesn't matter. 821 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,359 Speaker 2: Actually, that's genuinely actually. Yeah, Like, go Playpathfinder any other 822 00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 2: tabletop role playing game, and then if you feel like it, 823 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 2: also listen to us play it on cooles on Media 824 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:29,439 Speaker 2: book Club. 825 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, and go touch some grass. 826 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:38,320 Speaker 2: That's right, especially in states where it's legal. Eh. 827 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 1: I didn't mean it that way. 828 00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:41,799 Speaker 2: No, I know, I just was trying to be clever. 829 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 2: All right, I'm hungry. Bye, everyone, have a good week. 830 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: We'll see you. 831 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,400 Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 832 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, 833 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 3: visit our website Foalzonemedia dot com or check us out 834 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 3: on you, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. 835 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: Mm hmm