Speaker 1: Instead of drunk calling friends, I just like drunk go
Speaker 1: on like Instagram Live and start talking to people and
Speaker 1: I was like, this is not healthy.
Speaker 2: Evening everyone. Greg here, we are now into the second
Speaker 2: half of this new series of midnight chats. We're five
Speaker 2: episodes deep. Do check out the podcast we released in
Speaker 2: the past few weeks with the likes of idols Tim Burgess,
Speaker 2: Phoebe Bridges, Matt Berninger from The National and Last Time
Speaker 2: Out Ezra Collective's Femi Colioso and if the state of
Speaker 2: the world is getting to you right now, really don't
Speaker 2: blame you. If it is, trust me that conversation with
Speaker 2: Femi is guaranteed to pick you up at least a
Speaker 2: little bit. Got a super mellow podcast for you This
Speaker 2: Evening Tonight's guest is Jess Smith, better known as a
Speaker 2: Big Pig. On a stuffy hot day back in mid August,
Speaker 2: Jess rocked up with the coffee and water to the
Speaker 2: loud and quiet office in East London to record the
Speaker 2: conversation you're about to hear. Coincidentally, she'd spent some of
Speaker 2: the lockdown earlier in twenty twenty living in a flat
Speaker 2: just a couple of streets away anyway. Much like her music,
Speaker 2: Big Pig is a laid back character, very open, very chilled.
Speaker 2: A first matter back in twenty seventeen for a feature
Speaker 2: for Loud and Quiet magazine, and I've stuck a link
Speaker 2: to that piece in the show notes, along with some
Speaker 2: other bits that we talked about. But in that we
Speaker 2: talked about the surprising variety of jobs that she'd done,
Speaker 2: even at an early age, and her life growing up
Speaker 2: in Ireland and Spain. Now, in the three years since then,
Speaker 2: a lot has happened, a lot has changed. She's released
Speaker 2: three p's, also continued to make music as a member
Speaker 2: of the nine eight Collective and picked up famous fans
Speaker 2: in the form of Billie Eilish and Clairo. In terms
Speaker 2: of recent stuff, the twenty two year old's track Switch
Speaker 2: is one of my most plays of the year, and
Speaker 2: she keeps the bangers coming. Don't Turn Around and Oh No,
Speaker 2: both recently released, are so so good. Before we get
Speaker 2: into it, the keenest amongst you will have noticed that
Speaker 2: this is episode ninety nine of Midnight Chats, A wild
Speaker 2: achievement for us. I'm not sure we ever thought we'd
Speaker 2: get this far, but thank you for listening. We've got
Speaker 2: something extra special lined up for our one hundredth podcast,
Speaker 2: so keep your eyes on the feed for news on that.
Speaker 2: But let's get into tonight's midnight Chats, starting with some
Speaker 2: conversation about the August heat wave warm weather, remember that
Speaker 2: I'm not sure I do. This is episode ninety nine
Speaker 2: with Big Pig.
Speaker 3: I do like the heat, but I don't think London's
Speaker 3: built for it.
Speaker 1: I feel like everyone's just like sweating on each other
Speaker 1: in just like in a panic, like what do I do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I liked it. I think it was nice. I've no
Speaker 1: fan in my house though, no easy and my house
Speaker 1: is like made of wood, so everything was like really
Speaker 1: hot and we were just like it was grand. Though,
Speaker 1: I feel like I really missed the rain. When the
Speaker 1: rain came on, I was just like, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: really nice.
Speaker 2: I saw social media was basically like in the days
Speaker 2: before the rain turned up. I mean, this is like, yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a bit like kind of like, oh, poor rust.
Speaker 2: We managed to get through like six days of but
Speaker 2: like Twitter, people were just like rain dances online, just
Speaker 2: like please respite.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Literally, all the rain soundtracks.
Speaker 2: Just tell me a little bit about how things are
Speaker 2: at the moment, what kind of level of like normality
Speaker 2: like day to day are you at, Like what you
Speaker 2: kind of have you managed to return to doing the
Speaker 2: things you were doing at the start of the year,
Speaker 2: or like what, yeah, how are the days filled at
Speaker 2: the moment right now?
Speaker 1: I mean, I've just started to go back into studio,
Speaker 1: which is really really nice. I feel like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I have them been back in ages, and I really
Speaker 1: kind of took I don't know, the start lockdown. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm going to write so much and do
Speaker 1: so much and everything else. And once it actually started,
Speaker 1: things were just a lot more intense than I thought,
Speaker 1: and I was just like.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to say, I don't know what
Speaker 3: to feel.
Speaker 1: So I think I just kind to put it on
Speaker 1: the back burner. But and then having that kind of
Speaker 1: a break of shows and break of like making music
Speaker 1: and actually just listening to music and taking the time
Speaker 1: to appreciate other art, I think it was. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was nice and it was healthy I think in a sense,
Speaker 1: and I'm saying that from a very fucking lucky perspective,
Speaker 1: but it was good. And then I think going back
Speaker 1: into good in the studio now it's just like trying
Speaker 1: to understand how I did that before?
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean? Just kind of like
Speaker 3: working out how to be with someone in a room, and.
Speaker 2: Do you sort of lose those skills? Yeah? Get them. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm trying to recall those first few weeks of lockdown.
Speaker 2: We're just full of people being like I'm going to
Speaker 2: use this time proactively to learn a new hobby or
Speaker 2: a new skill or baked banana bread or Yeah there
Speaker 2: really was, wasn't it. I didn't fall into it.
Speaker 3: Actually have any banana bread.
Speaker 2: Flower was really difficult to get hold of. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: didn't find yourself doing that kind of well.
Speaker 3: I did what I do so for a few weeks.
Speaker 1: It feels like so long going now, But I did
Speaker 1: start to do kind of like I think I went
Speaker 1: a bit mad, and I was like, I'm just gonna
Speaker 1: start reading bedtime stories on Instagram for like whatever and
Speaker 1: kids books and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: And that was fun.
Speaker 1: Teaching Spanish I tried, I think, I just yeah, I
Speaker 1: think I've forgotten a lot more than I thought I had.
Speaker 3: But but that was cool. I did that every.
Speaker 2: Week, shooting people online.
Speaker 3: Or or on Instagram live.
Speaker 1: So I did like little lessons every like two days
Speaker 1: a week or something, and that was really cool. But
Speaker 1: mostly like the comments are always like we speak Spanish,
Speaker 1: like it's all right, and then what else did I do?
Speaker 1: Got into a relationship, So that was a lot. But
Speaker 1: that was definitely a learning experience, I think. And yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think that was that was kind of it.
Speaker 1: I've been moving as well, because I moved from White
Speaker 1: City where I was to them to East London, just
Speaker 1: down here to an empty flat, so it was fine.
Speaker 1: It was like moving into people and then I had
Speaker 1: my ex move in with me, and then from there
Speaker 1: we moved into another flat that was empty as well,
Speaker 1: just down the road. And then after that he left
Speaker 1: and I was like, I need somewhere that's gonna settle
Speaker 1: me and actually just relax. Then the last month I've
Speaker 1: just found somewhere, so I moved in there in Forest Hill.
Speaker 3: So that was nice.
Speaker 2: So lockdown wasn't quite so that it sounds quite turbulent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was really intense. It was really really intense.
Speaker 1: I think it was just o case, so like no
Speaker 1: one knows what to do, and we just were like, yeah,
Speaker 1: sure we've met three times, so we can move in together.
Speaker 3: Sure that's fine, and.
Speaker 1: Then doing that and being like this is a bad idea.
Speaker 1: Maybe we need to like I don't know, and then
Speaker 1: just yeah, it was all quite intense to be here,
Speaker 1: but it was grand and yeah it wasn't boring.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, How are you feeling now? Are you okay?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm finally settled down. I think it's just like probably
Speaker 1: just it's just that thing of like, even though this
Speaker 1: year has gone so slowly, it's also gone so fast,
Speaker 1: and I think you don't get a moment really to
Speaker 1: down or reflect on it because you just kind of,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you kind of forget it as it
Speaker 1: goes because you're like, this just isn't normal, So this
Speaker 1: doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: There's so much that's happened, actually, you know, and you forget.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's an interesting time.
Speaker 2: Really adjesting sounds it like you're quite like a you know,
Speaker 2: from what I kind of understand we've only met once before,
Speaker 2: but like quite quite like a sociable person, like you know,
Speaker 2: we talked a bit about like the nine eight collective
Speaker 2: first time we met, and obviously we'll come on talk
Speaker 2: a bit about that before. But so much of kind
Speaker 2: of what you do and your creativity is based around
Speaker 2: being around other people, yeah, and creating in that way.
Speaker 2: So when something like lockdown comes along and cuts that
Speaker 2: sort of in room contact off, like not being able
Speaker 2: to see your your best friends or your family, or
Speaker 2: your collaborators or whatever, how did you cope with that
Speaker 2: side of it?
Speaker 1: I think I'm not gonna I think I was in
Speaker 1: the opposite way completely. I was like, well, I'm not
Speaker 1: seeing anyone that I'm not talking to anyone. So it
Speaker 1: just kind of became this thing of I don't know,
Speaker 1: putting yourself in like a bit of a like I
Speaker 1: don't know, if you ignore it then it will go
Speaker 1: away a suppose. But it was kind of in a way,
Speaker 1: it was kind of good. I think it was a
Speaker 1: it was good to recharge. I think sometimes you can
Speaker 1: get caught up in social situations and forget to be
Speaker 1: with yourself. And I really haven't been myself for a
Speaker 1: long time, so it was like nice to do that
Speaker 1: and just like sit with your thoughts.
Speaker 3: You know, and sit with things and go like oh
Speaker 3: how am I feeling about this? Or like what is
Speaker 3: this about? Yeah? So it was good.
Speaker 2: So that was probably the major positive, like having a
Speaker 2: bit of time to was that like reflecting on since
Speaker 2: we first met. So we've met in twenty seventeen, that
Speaker 2: was before the release of the WP big fan of
Speaker 2: the session. Yeah, a lot has happened a three years obviously,
Speaker 2: released three EPs since then, done lots of live shows, festivals,
Speaker 2: like twenty million streams on Spotify later. More than that,
Speaker 2: I think I was just looking on there today, But
Speaker 2: you don't normally get the chance presumably to pause and
Speaker 2: just think about, like just have a moment where everybody stopped,
Speaker 2: so like you'll kind of give in this permission to
Speaker 2: maybe just have a think about things. Yeah, did that
Speaker 2: happen to.
Speaker 3: Let us thinking? Yeah, completely?
Speaker 1: I think that was literally just like I think sometimes
Speaker 1: you can be so caught up in things and things
Speaker 1: even so quick that you don't actually appreciate where you're
Speaker 1: at or what you've got. And I feel like I
Speaker 1: really had a lot of like things where I wake
Speaker 1: up in morning, I go, what is happening? My life
Speaker 1: is mad? Like this is sick. It's so cool, just mad,
Speaker 1: it's just really really cool. I think, Yeah, I just
Speaker 1: haven't really had a situation or a chance to do
Speaker 1: that ever. So that was a really really lucky positive
Speaker 1: for me to see it all from a bird's eye
Speaker 1: view and from a perspective.
Speaker 2: Always like step out of your own experience.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly exactly how did you find it?
Speaker 2: I feel like I've gone through different stages of it,
Speaker 2: to be honest, Like, I quite liked the beginning of
Speaker 2: lockdown when there were I think it appealed to the
Speaker 2: sort of organized part of my brain where I knew
Speaker 2: what the sort of rules were and what the red
Speaker 2: lines were. I was quite disciplined to be getting out
Speaker 2: of the house once a day to do your like
Speaker 2: regulation exercise. It's just stuff sounds you know, it's obviously
Speaker 2: a bit of distance since that time, but to sound
Speaker 2: kind of extraordinary. So it was on one hand it
Speaker 2: was a bit of balance of just trying to establish
Speaker 2: those new routines just to sort of look after yourself.
Speaker 2: I did find myself like becoming much more aware of
Speaker 2: looking after like physical and mental health a bit more,
Speaker 2: just because you stopped doing everything else was just sort
Speaker 2: of canceled, wasn't it going out and meeting people or
Speaker 2: any whatever gigs you might have booked, festivals, anything like that,
Speaker 2: And so it's all gone, which is really sad, which
Speaker 2: was obviously you kind of have that moment being like
Speaker 2: I'm gutted about that. But what that does do is
Speaker 2: just generate all this time to be I don't know,
Speaker 2: just yeah, like you already said, a bit of reflection,
Speaker 2: so definitely felt very it was a bit of a
Speaker 2: reset moment I think on certain things that just working
Speaker 2: out what I really cared about and prioritized. I'm finding
Speaker 2: now weirder the fact that sort of everything's kind of
Speaker 2: opened up more, but only to a level. Definitely don't
Speaker 2: feel anywhere near like the normal. Haven't been out that
Speaker 2: much to kind of go to meet people or have
Speaker 2: kind of seen friends and family, but in sort of
Speaker 2: parks and gardens and stuff. I don't know. I just
Speaker 2: don't really know where the kind of rules are. And
Speaker 2: also it feels like we're going to be in this
Speaker 2: stage now for quite a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's all that thing of readjusting as to
Speaker 1: being social a wrapp like do you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: or being like close to people.
Speaker 3: It's just like feels like such a weird thing to
Speaker 3: do now.
Speaker 2: Do you know if you've been back to like the
Speaker 2: puble like I mean, there are no like there's clubs,
Speaker 2: there's no parties to go to. There's no like I mean,
Speaker 2: I imagine like we've got lots of friends that put
Speaker 2: on club nights for example, Like that is what they do.
Speaker 2: Like every month, they're putting on a couple of parties
Speaker 2: and that's their it's their livelihood, you know. And so
Speaker 2: like those like nightlife as we know it, it doesn't
Speaker 2: really exist anymore. So what do you think have you
Speaker 2: thought about like the effect of that, Like people aren't DJs,
Speaker 2: aren't out there playing the music they want to play.
Speaker 2: Like people can't organize the creative club nights that they
Speaker 2: might put on. The spaces that people go to, different
Speaker 2: people of different people go to meet to socialize. That
Speaker 2: those those have been like I know people that go
Speaker 2: on zoom and stuff, but like it's different. It's not
Speaker 2: the same if you go to a club night where
Speaker 2: you know that everybody's you know, your your people are
Speaker 2: attending this club night, and yeah, you go there to
Speaker 2: socialize like that.
Speaker 1: Even the smoking area and all people who meet through that,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? And like the little
Speaker 1: things and the way that people used to be close,
Speaker 1: even the strangers, like going to a club and like
Speaker 1: I don't know, having a dance to the stranger and
Speaker 1: being close to the stranger and like that whole thing.
Speaker 1: I think it's just so different now, Like I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's ever going to get back to the
Speaker 1: point of well, no.
Speaker 3: Well definitely will.
Speaker 1: Sorry that's very negative, but I think it's just going
Speaker 1: to be weird readjusting to like even like being close
Speaker 1: to someone that you don't know, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? And like even I don't know wanting to
Speaker 1: go on a date with them, you don't know, it's
Speaker 1: just gonna be so different, like you.
Speaker 2: Know, zoom dates, Yeah, zoomed.
Speaker 3: I've seen these happen that would be so weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like socially distanced park dates and stuff.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, screen, isn't it Yeah? Oh my goodness, have.
Speaker 2: You missed being able to go out and dance, have
Speaker 2: a just cut loose exactly.
Speaker 1: The thing is, I love going out my own as well,
Speaker 1: Like I'm a big fan of just like going out
Speaker 1: and meeting strangers and seeing the night takes. Yet and
Speaker 1: like that hasn't happened for ages, So that's been real sad.
Speaker 3: Because yeah, I just feel like there's.
Speaker 1: So many like stories I'll never get to hear or like,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean, a little world so
Speaker 1: that you can just know. But hopefully one day we'll
Speaker 1: get back into it.
Speaker 2: If we're talking about the topic of like nightclubs or bars,
Speaker 2: and I mean I know bars have reopened, but like
Speaker 2: music venues and club nights and stuff, just I just
Speaker 2: don't see a way of that coming back like this year.
Speaker 2: Certainly have you.
Speaker 1: Seen the socially distanced ones that they tried as well? Oh,
Speaker 1: it's the most awkward thing. I think everything in my
Speaker 1: whole life I saw actually sad.
Speaker 2: It was like it was like the up on the
Speaker 2: platforms with the step and the further I saw. And
Speaker 2: this is not to like criticize anybody's efforts to like
Speaker 2: put on this course or anybody that went desperate for
Speaker 2: a night out and then they put on a series
Speaker 2: of kings. Recently, I think it was up in the
Speaker 2: Northeast where there was like a festival stage and then
Speaker 2: there were these platforms where you could go and you'd
Speaker 2: be with your friends or your family that you you know,
Speaker 2: your your bubble if you like, and then it was
Speaker 2: just a series of these platforms this field of just
Speaker 2: sort of it looked just it looked wrong.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It just wasn't actually sounds better than one that I saw.
Speaker 1: I think it was like midway through lockdown, but it
Speaker 1: was I think it was somewhere in like the Netherlands
Speaker 1: or something, and people were sat down individually two meters apart,
Speaker 1: but you weren't allowed to get up or to like whatever.
Speaker 3: So people were just like and the.
Speaker 1: DJ was just like, I don't know, it was a
Speaker 1: really weird thing to look at. I was like, what's happening?
Speaker 2: And yeah, it makes me nostalgic for a time when
Speaker 2: a stranger would spill their pint over.
Speaker 3: Here, yeah and you go what and they'd be like,
Speaker 3: oh man, I'm about you, Jake.
Speaker 2: All right, I never see them again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't know what the effect will be like long
Speaker 2: term on creators, like yeah, nightlife, people that are involved
Speaker 2: in putting on nights and stuff. What are the conversations
Speaker 2: like with for example, the nine eight collective, like within
Speaker 2: if anybody that doesn't know like you're you're you're part
Speaker 2: of a collective of creators and making music and artists
Speaker 2: and visuals. Like people you've worked with consistency for the
Speaker 2: last like four or five years on some of your output,
Speaker 2: and also you contribute to the nine eight collective, you know,
Speaker 2: the yeah yeah, So what how are they all doing?
Speaker 2: How are people navigating it? Like? Are they are they
Speaker 2: also finding this period challenge super weird?
Speaker 3: I think?
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean I saw them all there recently
Speaker 1: or doing a video shoot for traffic coming up like
Speaker 1: it's coming out saying. But even that was really strange
Speaker 1: because it was just like we used to be very
Speaker 1: consistent and like in meeting up and chatting all the
Speaker 1: time and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Once sock happened, I think everyone just kind of went
Speaker 3: into the bubble and was just a bit like oh,
Speaker 3: like I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then to see everyone back in a big room
Speaker 1: together again, it was just like mad, was.
Speaker 2: It nice or was it weird? Or like how do you?
Speaker 2: I mean, I suppose the key thing is like being
Speaker 2: forced to communicate in a different way.
Speaker 1: It was really nice, but it was also like we
Speaker 1: so much to catch up on and also like everyone's
Speaker 1: got the same stuff to catch you out.
Speaker 3: I mean, it was weird, but it was so lovely.
Speaker 3: It was just kind of that thing as well.
Speaker 1: I think of like when we were like saying goodbye
Speaker 1: and stuff, I was like, jeez, you might see them
Speaker 1: get for like another while.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: That was weird, but sure, yeah, just different times.
Speaker 1: I'm glad we're doing the stuff we're doing now because
Speaker 1: luckily we in the last year I think it was
Speaker 1: or this start of this year, we were making the
Speaker 1: tape together and we spent weeks on end in the
Speaker 1: same room together and then lockdown have and obviously we
Speaker 1: didn't teach other at all, So it was just it
Speaker 1: was nice and almost like really lucky that we had
Speaker 1: that time.
Speaker 2: Are you want of these people that's kind of hung
Speaker 2: on every detail and like update about what's been going on?
Speaker 2: Or at the other end of the spectrum, it's easy
Speaker 2: to wake up in the morning, open your phone and
Speaker 2: just feel completely depressed about the state of things, and
Speaker 2: therefore some people would take the opportunity to just distance
Speaker 2: themselves from just like, you know what, I need to
Speaker 2: give myself a break from all this. Where do you
Speaker 2: lie on the spectrum normally?
Speaker 1: I mean I think for a while it was very
Speaker 1: much like ignoring it all and being like, nope, I'm
Speaker 1: just going to like pretend like this is what I
Speaker 1: want to do and it's a holiday, but it's not.
Speaker 1: That's a fucking that's a very lucky Breek for me
Speaker 1: to look at it. But I think then you get
Speaker 1: flashed of reality and you're like, well and you have
Speaker 1: to like like even looking up the long term effects
Speaker 1: of like some people are going to have for the
Speaker 1: rest of their lives possibly, and it's just like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, there's a lot of really depressing fast that
Speaker 1: pop up. Sometimes you're like Jesus Christ, you know, I
Speaker 1: think you can kind of forget and not forget, but
Speaker 1: just kind of sometimes you're like you look at the
Speaker 1: death to every day and you're like, oh my god, wow,
Speaker 1: but yeah, let's not get sad exactly.
Speaker 2: Final question on that, hopefully this might have an optimistic answer,
Speaker 2: it might not. How do you think it's uniquely affected
Speaker 2: people of your generation, people in the early twenties, Like
Speaker 2: obviously the mental health aspect of just going everybody has
Speaker 2: experienced of going through the pandemic, But what about like
Speaker 2: opportunity wise, like personally for you, you've kind of got
Speaker 2: a bit of a foundation to work with that, like
Speaker 2: you know, post pandemic, you'll be able to kind of
Speaker 2: pick up with and start creating music and you've got
Speaker 2: like an audience. What do you think people sort of
Speaker 2: more genuinely in their early twenties, Like, what do you
Speaker 2: think the big effect is going to be? Is it
Speaker 2: like the lack of opportunity for expressing themselves at a
Speaker 2: club night or getting a job?
Speaker 1: It depends obviously in case to case a person and
Speaker 1: how they're like going through it. I think jobs are
Speaker 1: something people have really like been speaking about recently, Like
Speaker 1: even trying to get a pub job.
Speaker 3: Now there's like a huge queue of people trying to
Speaker 3: do that.
Speaker 2: It's still a pub in the family, is your because
Speaker 2: your parents ran a pub? Yeah, yeah, they still got
Speaker 2: a pub.
Speaker 1: They've got a hostel and they've like they still live
Speaker 1: over a pub. But yeah, positively though, there definitely has
Speaker 1: been like I don't know, I think a room for
Speaker 1: conversation and stuff that maybe hadn't happened before on such
Speaker 1: a wide scale, like when it comes to BLM and
Speaker 1: like just a load of conversation even between like mental
Speaker 1: health and everything else as well. So I think in
Speaker 1: a positive way, like people have had more open conversations
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, which has been nice. Individually, people
Speaker 1: are going through it, but on a wider scale, I
Speaker 1: think communication and conversations have been happening that are really important.
Speaker 3: So it's been nice.
Speaker 2: So the first time we met, already mentioned it was
Speaker 2: like three years ago. You were just starting out. You've
Speaker 2: been working on material that ended up being on the
Speaker 2: W what's happened since then? You've released three p's you
Speaker 2: mentioned it a minute ago, like you've had a chance
Speaker 2: to kind of reflect recently on just some of the
Speaker 2: stuff that's been happening. But just taught me through a
Speaker 2: few of the highlights have been since that period. Like
Speaker 2: you know, at that point, I don't think you'd even
Speaker 2: played a live show. I think the idea of pulling
Speaker 2: together like a band was still something you were thinking about.
Speaker 2: What have been some of the things that you just
Speaker 2: have been like wow, fantastic, Like love to do in
Speaker 2: that since.
Speaker 1: Live shows when it comes to mind, there was one
Speaker 1: we did in Barcelona that was insane and that was
Speaker 1: really really cool to see how many people came out
Speaker 1: for that. And I think as well, I've been really
Speaker 1: lucky with the people that worked it for my band
Speaker 1: as well. They're just incredible musicians as well as great friends.
Speaker 1: So the way that that panned out was great, and yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just been a really really fast and incredible time.
Speaker 2: At that point, we were talking about tracks like Vice City,
Speaker 2: the early material. At that point, did you already have
Speaker 2: were you thinking I want to release almost like a
Speaker 2: trilogy of EPs? You already knew that I didn't.
Speaker 1: I don't think I did it exactly the way I
Speaker 1: wanted to do it, okay, because individually, the way that
Speaker 1: I was going to do it was there's going to
Speaker 1: be different names for the characters in each of them,
Speaker 1: not the characters, but the people, the person who it
Speaker 1: was about whatever, And the way visually I wanted to
Speaker 1: look was slightly different as well. But the way that
Speaker 1: they came out ended up being a lot more personal,
Speaker 1: I think, and a lot more like given Like visually,
Speaker 1: I feel like it was just a lot more kind
Speaker 1: of myself rather than like someone I was playing it.
Speaker 2: Twenty twenties obviously wiped out most people's plans and affected
Speaker 2: schedules and stuff. Were you at the point where you
Speaker 2: were starting to think about a debut album or what
Speaker 2: was what was the project you were working on when
Speaker 2: things kind of got paused?
Speaker 1: To be fair, actually I was only doing kind of
Speaker 1: like I've just been working on music and music and
Speaker 1: music to the point now where I'm kind of like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like before I lockdown, I was in
Speaker 1: studio constantly, and I feel like I've just got this
Speaker 1: big bucket of tunes, and I think at that point,
Speaker 1: you kind of the more you add on to it,
Speaker 1: the more you like put into it. Sometimes it can
Speaker 1: be great, but also sometimes you like kind of lose
Speaker 1: what you're looking for with it, do you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, You're like just mass producing something like whereas
Speaker 1: the I feel like the love kind of you kind
Speaker 1: of lose the love out of it. Sometimes having that
Speaker 1: break was really important, and now going into it, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I've got these like five tracks that I'm really excited for.
Speaker 1: I kind of feel like that wants to be on
Speaker 1: the album, and then there's three tracks that I want
Speaker 1: to put this year. But I'm still just kind of
Speaker 1: figuring out as a girl.
Speaker 2: I was going to say, because if you had a
Speaker 2: really firm vision for like how the trilogy of EPs
Speaker 2: went and each dealt with a different character a different period,
Speaker 2: like when it comes to an album, like a traditional
Speaker 2: album would be like I know, twelve fifteen tracks or something.
Speaker 2: So in your mind, do you think were you to
Speaker 2: create an album you'd like chapterize it, would there be
Speaker 2: like a narrative woven into it. Would it just be
Speaker 2: a collection of songs that you've been working on that
Speaker 2: you really liked, or do you have a vision for
Speaker 2: what you'd want to do with.
Speaker 1: So I've got definitely like the idea of the world
Speaker 1: that I wanted to be in and the way that
Speaker 1: it looks, in the way that it feels, And I
Speaker 1: think it's almost just a mature version of myself and
Speaker 1: a lot more kind of I don't know, allowing myself
Speaker 1: to be less like how.
Speaker 3: Do I heard it?
Speaker 1: It's more kind of just like the darker but also
Speaker 1: sometimes more exciting parts of going into adulthood and the
Speaker 1: experience is and that I mean, it's still being written,
Speaker 1: but I feel like hopefully it'll write itself when I
Speaker 1: know about like I can feel where I want it
Speaker 1: to go.
Speaker 2: With the live aspect of things kind of pretty much
Speaker 2: just paused for the moment. Who knows when that will
Speaker 2: come back. Do you feel I know some artists were like,
Speaker 2: I'm just going to wait, like it doesn't feel like
Speaker 2: the right moment to be releasing music, and it feels
Speaker 2: like things have sort of moved on from that, and
Speaker 2: it's lots of people just want to put music out
Speaker 2: there now because we're not. We can't wait forever. Maybe
Speaker 2: like creativity just can't stop, Like you can just like
Speaker 2: start releasing music again, even though the live part of
Speaker 2: things aren't isn't there? That is that how you feel
Speaker 2: about it? Do you think you'll you'll kind of pick
Speaker 2: up and still want to continue releasing music for the
Speaker 2: rest of this year?
Speaker 3: I think so.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of a lot of tunes
Speaker 1: I'm sitting on that I feel like if I don't
Speaker 1: release them, I just like the past, it.
Speaker 2: Then just becomes history otherwise, and it's kind of like
Speaker 2: time's not right for that, like it goes into the
Speaker 2: sort of the holding area or it just sits on
Speaker 2: the hard drive forever sort of thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there's so many tracks like even though
Speaker 1: I really that I've made within the time of like
Speaker 1: when we first met, and none of them will lover
Speaker 1: come out on it because like they've had their do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, They've had their time even
Speaker 1: past it. So it's like I don't know, but these ones,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'd love to love to have them
Speaker 1: released this year.
Speaker 2: But yeah, the first conversation we ever had, I sat
Speaker 2: with kind of amazement as we talked about all the
Speaker 2: different variety of like jobs and things that you've done.
Speaker 2: And the thing that keeps always popping up in every
Speaker 2: interview or thing that I've seen with you since is
Speaker 2: like the whole poker dealer thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird recently as well.
Speaker 2: Really fascinating. I mean, you did a variety of jobs
Speaker 2: kind of growing up, from working at your parents are
Speaker 2: out in Spain, through to being a poker dealer in London,
Speaker 2: through to you went to beer school, right, did you
Speaker 2: to be a school? Is that when you're in London?
Speaker 3: That was?
Speaker 2: What was that experience? Like? Did you is that like
Speaker 2: an interesting kind of way to follow up on or
Speaker 2: what it was?
Speaker 3: It was cool.
Speaker 1: I mean it was just kind of I think I
Speaker 1: was a bit young, so I was just like, we're
Speaker 1: just getting pizzed.
Speaker 3: It's cool. But it was just a week. It was
Speaker 3: like an induction.
Speaker 1: Day for what do they call the draft house, so
Speaker 1: working for them and they were starting off like this
Speaker 1: new opening up, this new.
Speaker 3: Branch, so they were like, oh, well, we'll just take.
Speaker 1: You through like wine tasting and beer tasting everything else,
Speaker 1: so you get to learn about it.
Speaker 3: Before you start. It was really cool though, really interesting.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like I'm still an Amstoll girl
Speaker 1: at the end of it, but it's really like cool
Speaker 1: to note and to know about different beers and stuff.
Speaker 2: I suppose one thing that has happened is in a
Speaker 2: bid to kind of take care of myself during lockdown,
Speaker 2: is it got big into low alcohol and alcohol beer. Oh,
Speaker 2: that's so good and it's good. Like the variety is
Speaker 2: pretty decent now, but they're not they're not rible.
Speaker 3: No, it's it's really good Portuguese. You should try.
Speaker 2: Okay, what's it called it something?
Speaker 3: It's sad grease. Yeah, cool, it's so good for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think we should do the big pig no
Speaker 2: alcohol beer merch line.
Speaker 3: That would be sick.
Speaker 2: I reckon it was. I don't, but I'm quite you
Speaker 2: know what, Like it is there's there's a business that
Speaker 2: is growing like during lockdown, Like I think that's like
Speaker 2: more people have yeah, and it's it's big. It's big business.
Speaker 2: Like it seems like all those breweries are suddenly like
Speaker 2: rushing to try and create ranges of like no alcohol.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it used to not be any really like
Speaker 1: one or two, but not many, Like it's really difficult
Speaker 1: to go on the bob and find one that has.
Speaker 2: It's still quite difficult. Pubs are still tricky, like they
Speaker 2: don't tend to have much of a off. I think
Speaker 2: it will become like quite a big thing. A little
Speaker 2: while ago we so with Loud and Quiet and the
Speaker 2: magazine that we make. My colleagues, you came to visit
Speaker 2: you and that you're flat down in Peckham at that point,
Speaker 2: and I think you did a tarot reading for it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, are you still doing that?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, no, I actually I didn't lose them. They just disappeared,
Speaker 1: and I felt like it was a sign that I
Speaker 1: should stop.
Speaker 3: They were like, stop messing up people's lives, just leave
Speaker 3: it alone.
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, did they get lost in like
Speaker 2: a move or something, and he was like, yeah.
Speaker 3: Well kind of.
Speaker 1: And then like I thought, I put them in a bag.
Speaker 1: I opened it up and they weren't there, and I
Speaker 1: was like, but yeah, I'm still really into them and stuff.
Speaker 1: I just don't think i'm the right person to be
Speaker 1: probably to be to be using them, right, Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: also really like superstitious and quite like scared of spirits
Speaker 1: and stuff as well. So I'm just but like maybe
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be playing with this. But yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: remember what he said for his actually.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. The other day I saw a video
Speaker 2: there where you'd gone to like Joey Crooks's house. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: cooking dinner YouTube video interview thing and and you did
Speaker 2: joys reading then, and yeah, I mean I'm quite interested
Speaker 2: in it, but did you feel Yeah, why do you
Speaker 2: why do you think you were like attracted to it
Speaker 2: in the first place?
Speaker 1: I think what the thing thing is the reason I
Speaker 1: got the cards because your man next door we live too,
Speaker 1: he just brought them over and he was like like
Speaker 1: left the monitor step and we're like what, And his
Speaker 1: wife came over she was like, yeah, I mean it's
Speaker 1: good luck. If you give us a penny, then you
Speaker 1: can just start using mys like sick. So then I
Speaker 1: looked into it and there was like a lot of that,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I've always loved like readings and like the
Speaker 1: idea of I don't know, with Taro, especially like it's
Speaker 1: always there's always a resolve. It's never a bad thing.
Speaker 1: It's either like a learning curve or like a positive thing,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. I've always liked the
Speaker 1: idea that like people can understand each other and there's
Speaker 1: something maybe we don't. I don't know, we can be
Speaker 1: vulnerable enough to open up that way. I think as well.
Speaker 1: I think people do when it's like things like that. So,
Speaker 1: but I don't think I'm meant to do it. So
Speaker 1: I don't think you're gonna do it anymore.
Speaker 2: Can you do your own tart reading? Because I've never
Speaker 2: done it? So could you? Was it always in conversation
Speaker 2: with somebody else or was it something you could.
Speaker 3: Just know you could do for yourself as well?
Speaker 1: But you're not supposed to do it more than like
Speaker 1: once every three months and then for yourself or something
Speaker 1: like that, just because you could drive yourself mad.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, right, just end up with all these
Speaker 2: different pathways.
Speaker 3: I supposed to be going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you do readings with because you were like
Speaker 2: big into it for a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I did readings for someone ie ate Leban and
Speaker 1: Nyana for them?
Speaker 3: Who else? Do I do it for my housemates? My manager?
Speaker 1: That was really weird that was like he got really
Speaker 1: freaked out and he was like, oh, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and he was like, actually, I wish you didn't do that.
Speaker 3: That's really like.
Speaker 2: Quite I really hope like prosperity came out of that way.
Speaker 2: All of our fortunes are based on this.
Speaker 3: We're gonna make.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny, but yeah, some of them really really
Speaker 1: hit hard and really hit like really hit home with
Speaker 1: a lot of people. I feel like I do think
Speaker 1: that like energy did definitely a thing, and I think
Speaker 1: I think there's definitely stuff that we can't control with
Speaker 1: like how things pan out and high powers and stuff
Speaker 1: like that. But yeah, that was an intense one with him.
Speaker 1: Who else I do Y Yeah, kind of a bad
Speaker 1: because when it was Stu and your man that came
Speaker 1: with him, Jesus I said, I think I just felt
Speaker 1: so bad after I think Tom's I was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: I can just imagine you, like at a festival, going
Speaker 2: around like the backstage area doing it with like different eyes,
Speaker 2: freaking people out.
Speaker 1: But originally there was actually an I did to do
Speaker 1: a podcast for people, I'm like to do that, and
Speaker 1: I was actually, actually, you know what I'm asking a lot.
Speaker 1: If someone asks to like come onto that and suddenly like, yeah,
Speaker 1: tell me about all your trauma, that would be horrible.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I didn't end up doing that.
Speaker 2: In the end. In the last three years, like the
Speaker 2: journey for you is kind of built and built, and
Speaker 2: like you've discovered kind of new fans and different artists
Speaker 2: and you know you've been asked before, like Billie Eilish
Speaker 2: has said that she's a fan of your work or
Speaker 2: enjoyed a couple of tracks. Yeah, how was that felt
Speaker 2: finding people already with large audiences discovering your stuff and
Speaker 2: I guess kind of probably sending some new fans in
Speaker 2: your direction as it felt like that.
Speaker 3: I felt really cool.
Speaker 1: I feel like it's the thing the reach that you
Speaker 1: forget about how far music can get to and how
Speaker 1: many people are kind of reaches and it's just like
Speaker 1: it's a bit of reality check where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's mad that I made this, And especially with things
Speaker 1: like my old tunes, where I'm like, oh, literally made
Speaker 1: this in Lloyd's bedroom and suddenly like someone on the
Speaker 1: other side of the planet, I don't know, with like
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff going on, like it's just bumping
Speaker 1: it and you're like, whoa, how did that happen?
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's been really cool.
Speaker 1: And then with the audience and stuff, it's grown I
Speaker 1: think a lot in the last couple of years, and
Speaker 1: it's definitely there's definitely a lot to be to be
Speaker 1: said for people at that sharing it and everything else.
Speaker 1: It's been really cool, really grateful for him.
Speaker 2: And how do you feel about like kind of nurturing
Speaker 2: that as in you mentioned right at the top, doing
Speaker 2: things like the bedtime stories and the Spanish lessons during lockdown,
Speaker 2: Like do you see like having a fan base, a
Speaker 2: growing fan base is something you need to like strengthen
Speaker 2: the bond and constantly have like an open dialogue like
Speaker 2: what's your relationship like to having a fan base?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, sometimes it's very like you pick your moments
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, maybe do you know what come
Speaker 1: on in and like whatever else, Like even there was
Speaker 1: some living over here, just little things of like what
Speaker 1: we do in our day in quarantine or whatever. I
Speaker 1: think quarantine has definitely been something where you're you end
Speaker 1: up with that kind of need for social interaction probably,
Speaker 1: but with me it was like, oh, well this is
Speaker 1: what I'm doing, Maybe I should just show them and like,
Speaker 1: you know, it feels a bit good, like to to
Speaker 1: know the people are are watching.
Speaker 3: In case anything happens.
Speaker 1: No, but it was grand. There was just like showing
Speaker 1: people around the house and.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, like some days you like having fun with
Speaker 2: it and some days it's like no, it's.
Speaker 3: Not yeah yeah, or some days I want to just
Speaker 3: close it.
Speaker 1: And I also feel like I can be quite impulsive
Speaker 1: with it sometimes where I'm just like end up I
Speaker 1: don't know. There's a couple times where I end up
Speaker 1: getting drunk and I was just like, instead of drunk
Speaker 1: calling friends, I just like drunk, go on like Instagram Live,
Speaker 1: start talking to people, and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: not healthy, you know what I mean? So yeah, I
Speaker 1: think it's just trying to work out.
Speaker 2: Come on board. Stacy from Australia, how are you, babe?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Do you want to see look at my like I'll.
Speaker 2: Just see what's in the fridge?
Speaker 1: Yeah, nothing, your love life, Like it's just you know what.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think there's definitely a need to.
Speaker 2: There's the other podcast idea. If you don't do like
Speaker 2: tarot readings, it could be that drunk calling Big Pig.
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus Christ, that'd be awful, not alcoholic bears and
Speaker 1: drunk on our coolo bears.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's been interesting.
Speaker 2: One thing, like I was reading back, like when when
Speaker 2: we reading back some of the stuff we talked about
Speaker 2: when when we first met, and there was something that
Speaker 2: jumped out to me, like a quote something you said
Speaker 2: to me that I thought it was really interesting that said,
Speaker 2: I feel like with every job that I do, it's
Speaker 2: important to learn something new. And if you're not learning
Speaker 2: something new, then you're not going to feel happy about
Speaker 2: what you do. So I wanted to kind of finish
Speaker 2: by asking you, what do you think the key things
Speaker 2: you've learned from being like a full time musician the
Speaker 2: last couple of years, Like, what are the key things
Speaker 2: from being now that your job is a musician? Yeah,
Speaker 2: what have you learned from that new job?
Speaker 1: I think I've learned a lot about what I hold
Speaker 1: dear and what I hope close just from like the
Speaker 1: amount of writing that I do now. It's just let
Speaker 1: me kind of understand myself so much more, and like
Speaker 1: the way that I deal with relationships and everything else,
Speaker 1: it's just like self there, Well, that's not true, don't
Speaker 1: do that, because that's not a real thing self therapy.
Speaker 1: It is not a thing, but yeah, it is really therapeutic.
Speaker 1: And then what else it taught me. It's taught me
Speaker 1: about just like people I hold dear and.
Speaker 3: Like I think as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, I went through a lot of changes with
Speaker 1: the last two or three years, I don't know, in
Speaker 1: moving around and fallout and all that, and.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I feel like it's really taught me.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Music has genuinely been such a savior for me in
Speaker 1: so many ways, even with the people that I've met
Speaker 1: through it when it comes to like Eva Love and
Speaker 1: Lloyd and nine eight, and I don't know, it's that
Speaker 1: thing that I'm just so lucky to have where if
Speaker 1: anything ever happens, we've just got each other. We've got
Speaker 1: that bond. It's just unbreakable. So it's just I don't know,
Speaker 1: I owe a lot to it. As for the musical
Speaker 1: side of stuff, yeah, it's been cool. And then I
Speaker 1: feel like, you know, you're not always gonna get it right,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, You're not always gonna come
Speaker 1: out with something that you I used to be very
Speaker 1: picky when I used to write, and I used to
Speaker 1: be like if this isn't written in twenty minutes, then
Speaker 1: it's just not a thing where it's like now, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm much more patient with it and I
Speaker 1: give myself time. And sometimes you're not gonna have it
Speaker 1: all worked out, and you got to you got to
Speaker 1: come back to it, You've got to, I don't know,
Speaker 1: just give yourself a minute.
Speaker 3: You know, life's too short, so.
Speaker 2: Be patient with yourself. And the power of friendship through
Speaker 2: music has been a saving grace.
Speaker 3: Yea literally that
Speaker 1: Anyway, good Night,