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Speaker 1: Again there I could use another fifteen minutes of omelet discourse. Really,

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Speaker 1: I say, the more ingredient. No, No, the people deserve

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Speaker 1: to know. Well, look, you know what, you have to

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Speaker 1: put the ingredients in the egg, then fold the egg.

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Speaker 1: It's weird to just fold the egg over the ingredients.

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Speaker 1: This idea that you cook an egg omelet style and

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Speaker 1: then fold it like a pita over a bunch of

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Speaker 1: veggies and ingredients, and you call that an omelet. But

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Speaker 1: I am against that method. I am all for you

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Speaker 1: cook the egg with the ship in it. I agree.

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Speaker 1: I agree. The only thing about the cheese in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the fold that I totally get is that

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Speaker 1: restaurants have you have to be able to see it

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Speaker 1: or else people think, well, it's not there. I remember

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Speaker 1: we had to sometimes that the bakery put some just

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Speaker 1: some cold shredded on it, just so people knew that

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Speaker 1: the cheese was in there, because they would always send

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Speaker 1: it back and you'd be like, there's a fun town

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Speaker 1: of cheese and you just can't see it. Anyway. Look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not about catering to people's ridiculous demands in a restaurant.

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Speaker 1: We don't nego with terrorists and restaurants. So if you're

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Speaker 1: coming in trying to terrorize the cooking staff, i'd been like,

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Speaker 1: this has it right, but it is. You know, sure

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Speaker 1: there's idiots out there sucking up all the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten an order or two in my life, of course,

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Speaker 1: but chances are it's going, well, it's nobody's fault you

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Speaker 1: just you'll get your food. A proportional response is all

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Speaker 1: that's asked. Where you're like, you're not falling off a

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Speaker 1: cliff dude, right, Like, this is not, Simba, No, where's

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Speaker 1: this going? I need this analogy to complete. This is,

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Speaker 1: you know, stuck out in the middle of the will

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Speaker 1: to be stand rampage. You know you have to go

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Speaker 1: save them. It's nothing like that. This is not a

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Speaker 1: serious situation. It's cheese. Like, try to relax. I ordered provolone.

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Speaker 1: He's like, provolone is eighties six right with his ears flat.

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Speaker 1: It's so sad. It was your felt, Simba, you forgot

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Speaker 1: the cheese. You didn't key it in. It's only one

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Speaker 1: way you need to leave the kingdom and never return.

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Speaker 1: Please try with a restaurant worker, because they will straight

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Speaker 1: up and like oh yeah, okay, bye. No, I mean

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Speaker 1: I have felt that way before, like I funked up

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Speaker 1: an order. Oh god, I need to leave the Kingdom

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Speaker 1: and never return. I'm going to go live in the

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Speaker 1: woods with my my world house. It's what I deserve. Ah. Hey, well,

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Speaker 1: welcome back, everybody. Welcome to the show. Thanks for returning.

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Speaker 1: I'm Eli, I'm Diana. We're here with another wonderful episode

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Speaker 1: for you today. Yeah. This, this story came to us

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Speaker 1: from one of our listeners. Brandy reached out and asked

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Speaker 1: for this one. So thank you Brandy for the idea.

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Speaker 1: It's very cool to look into this, I mean, crazy story. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was kind of thinking this where he was in

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Speaker 1: the back of my mind already, um, just because heard

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Speaker 1: of it only for me because of the musical Ragtime.

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Speaker 1: So it was in the back of my mind. But

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Speaker 1: then when when Brandy wrote in about it, I was like, oh, yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: we got that's a good one. Yeah, thanks Brandy for sparking.

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Speaker 1: It's a turn of the century story. So we're in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen hundreds, eight late eighteen nineties, early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: and it's full of fashion models and architects and artists

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Speaker 1: and rich guys in Manhattan and sex clubs and rape

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Speaker 1: and madness and murder and a lot more than that.

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Speaker 1: So it's a story that really has it all. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think we should waste any more time, and

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Speaker 1: let's just get to it. I agree, let's go. Hey

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Speaker 1: the French, come listen. Well, Elia and Diana got some

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Speaker 1: stories to tell. There's no matchmaking, a romantic tips. It's

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Speaker 1: just about pardiculous relationships, a love. It might be any

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Speaker 1: type of person at all, and abstract concept a concrete wall.

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Speaker 1: But if there's a story, went the second Ridiculous Roles

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. All right, well, we will

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Speaker 1: start with Evelyn Nesbitt. She's born on Christmas Day, either

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Speaker 1: in eight four or eighteen eighty five, not sure, because

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Speaker 1: her mom would change her age sometimes to make her

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Speaker 1: seem older so she could work. Um. She was born

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Speaker 1: in Pittsburgh. She was encouraged by her dad to kind

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Speaker 1: of be a reader and sing and dance and kind

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Speaker 1: of be an artist and stuff, so she got kind

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Speaker 1: of into that as a young child. But then her

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Speaker 1: father passed away. He was only forty at the time,

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Speaker 1: so pretty young, and left the family penniless. They had

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Speaker 1: no money at all, so that gets difficult obviously, Um,

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Speaker 1: they lost their house. All their stuff had to be

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Speaker 1: auctioned off, and um, her mom's name was Florence Nesbit,

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Speaker 1: and Florence had to kind of rely on charity for

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Speaker 1: a little while. And then she she took in laundry.

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Speaker 1: She tried to keep boarders at this like boarding house

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Speaker 1: or whatever, but she was not cut out to be

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Speaker 1: a landlady because she could not bring herself to ask

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Speaker 1: for rent. So she wasn't mean enough basically to be

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Speaker 1: a landlady, and so she kind of gave that up.

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Speaker 1: They moved to Philadelphia and she got a job as

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Speaker 1: a sales clerk at the fabric counter of the Wannamaker

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Speaker 1: department store, and quickly brought her daughter, who Evelyn, who

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Speaker 1: was fourteen, and her son, Howard, who's twelve, to also

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Speaker 1: work there for twelve hour shifts, six days a week.

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Speaker 1: So the whole family is busting asks just to get by.

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Speaker 1: But fourteen year old Evelyn, she's a very pretty young girl,

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Speaker 1: and an artist comes by and she was totally struck

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Speaker 1: by her beauty and she said, you know, will you

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Speaker 1: sit down for a portrait? And her mom checked and

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Speaker 1: she was like, okay, well, this artist as a woman,

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Speaker 1: so I feel okay about this, so yeah, you can

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Speaker 1: do it. And then Evelyn becomes this like favorite model

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Speaker 1: among all the artists in Philadelphia. She's posing for illustrators

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Speaker 1: and painters and even like some stained glass, which I

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Speaker 1: think is super cool if I was a stained glass model.

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Speaker 1: So Evelyn had a memoir called Prodigal Days, The Untold

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Speaker 1: Story of Evelyn Nesbitt, and she wrote, quote, when I

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Speaker 1: saw I could and more money posing as an artist

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Speaker 1: model than I could at Wannamaker's, I gave my mother

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Speaker 1: no peace until she permitted me to pose for a livelihood.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I get it, because they were like trudging

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Speaker 1: away at this stupid retail job and she's like, mom,

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Speaker 1: I'm making like crazy money just to sit quietly for

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Speaker 1: five hours, Like let me do this, find me seriously,

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Speaker 1: and I'm immortalized and stained glass. So they moved to

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Speaker 1: New York in November of d and Florence was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, well this is working out, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: go around and find some artists, and here reputable artists,

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Speaker 1: Like she wasn't gonna just pond or after anybody on

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Speaker 1: the street with a pencil. Um yea. But she called

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Speaker 1: around from her friends in Philly and and uh and

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Speaker 1: found some artists in New York, and Evelyn started posing again.

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Speaker 1: There's a book by Simon Batts called The Girl on

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Speaker 1: the Velvet Swing, and there's a great review of it

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Speaker 1: on the Gotham Center dot org. And they were kind

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Speaker 1: of pointing out that women in Florence's social class were

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Speaker 1: totally reliant on their husband's income, so poverty was just

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Speaker 1: one male breadwinner's death way. Basically, like you could do

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Speaker 1: everything right and still end up with nothing if your

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Speaker 1: husband died. And they were kind of like, it's good

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Speaker 1: to keep that in mind in context of all of

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Speaker 1: Florence's and evelynce decisions, because it was pretty risk gay

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Speaker 1: for middle class people to be like posing for artists

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Speaker 1: and stuff. But obviously it was kind of the only

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Speaker 1: thing keeping them out of the street, so that's why

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Speaker 1: she was willing to let her daughter pose for photographers also.

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Speaker 1: And all of a sudden then go on the stage

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and they say, quote the challenges faced by

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Speaker 1: Florence and Evelyn, who were less vulnerable than their African

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Speaker 1: American immigrant or more impoverished peers, provide a lens into

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Speaker 1: the ways the economic landscape of New York City exposed

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Speaker 1: women to sexual exploitation and required them to rely on

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Speaker 1: their relationships with sometimes violent men for survival. And I'm

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Speaker 1: including that quote because it's very important context for the

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Speaker 1: whole rest of this story. So please keep that in

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Speaker 1: mind as we keep talking about all these crazy people.

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Speaker 1: And I would argue that's important context to keep in

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Speaker 1: mind in general in life today, because that's still true

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Speaker 1: I think to some degree. Or people are like, well,

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Speaker 1: why did she stay with him for so long? And

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Speaker 1: you're like, you can't really appreciate the economic repercussions, and

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Speaker 1: you know, all kinds of repercussions that come from leaving

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Speaker 1: someone sometimes that you might rely on for certain reasons

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Speaker 1: and emotionally, you know. I mean, we talked about gas

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Speaker 1: lighting a lot lately, and people do feel guilty even

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Speaker 1: in a even in a relationship that's not abusive, people

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Speaker 1: have stayed in it when it's not working because they

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Speaker 1: feel kind of guilty about leaving, or just uncertain about leaving,

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Speaker 1: or they might just be ashamed that it didn't work

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Speaker 1: out like they thought, you know, if I just tried

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Speaker 1: harder something. I mean, there's a lot of different reasons

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Speaker 1: people stay go back and check out our Robert Downey

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Speaker 1: Junior episode uh and find out why Sarah Jessica Parker

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Speaker 1: stayed with him for seven years. Well, he was very

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Speaker 1: difficult to be around and and you know, heavily addicted

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Speaker 1: to really bad drugs. Yeah. So Evelyn is a huge success.

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Speaker 1: She's like one of the most in demand models of

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Speaker 1: the time. Evelyn she's a Talk of the town. That's

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Speaker 1: nobody and Evelyn Nesbit. And she is appearing on the

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Speaker 1: cover of Vanity Fair. It's a Harper's Bazaar, there's a Cosmopolitan,

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Speaker 1: a Ladies home journal. She's on beer trays, she's on

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Speaker 1: tobacco cards. She's selling sheet music and pocket mirrors, postcards,

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Speaker 1: nine hundred, nineteen hundreds. He has some nineteen hundred playing.

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Speaker 1: She's the funny navel. She's a she's a fiddle string.

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Speaker 1: She's a company car. Wow, a company car. She's great her.

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Speaker 1: They're obsessed. And even in her early teens, she posts

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Speaker 1: for Charles Dana Gibson, who idealized her as the Gibson Girl,

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Speaker 1: which was this like epitome of feminine qualities, and it

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Speaker 1: was like how you should wear your hair and your

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Speaker 1: clothes and how your general aura should be is the

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Speaker 1: Gibson Girl kind of ideal, and she was the ideal.

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Speaker 1: But she was getting a little board, just standing around

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Speaker 1: all day quietly, and she had been getting a couple

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Speaker 1: offers to appear on stage and like get into theater.

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Speaker 1: So she pressures Florence nest Bit, like, hey, mom, I

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Speaker 1: could probably make more money this way, And so in

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Speaker 1: July nineteen o one, she joined the cast of a

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Speaker 1: wildly popular play called Flora Dora at the Casino Theater

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Speaker 1: on Broadway. She's just as a Spanish maiden on the

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Speaker 1: chorus line, so not at like a starring role or

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Speaker 1: anything like that. She's in the back. But even so

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Speaker 1: she's so beautiful that she catches the eye of these

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Speaker 1: two super rich dudes, Stanford White and Harry K. Thaw. Well, sure,

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Speaker 1: it's Flora Dora. Everyone's there, everyone's everyone. It's the talk

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Speaker 1: of the town. It's the it's it's the sensations. It's

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Speaker 1: the little bit of sunshine. Oh my god, that's so good.

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Speaker 1: All right. Stanford White, this guy was New York City's

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Speaker 1: most famous architect. He did a bunch of like private

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Speaker 1: residences and public monuments and famous structures like the Washington

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Speaker 1: Memorial arch and the Bowery Savings Bank or the Gould

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Speaker 1: Library at nyu UH. He also did the second Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Gardens. There have been four Madison Square Gardens in

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Speaker 1: New York City over the many years that New York

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Speaker 1: City has been around. And number two was Stanford White right,

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Speaker 1: number two. What a ship the poopi ist Madison Square

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Speaker 1: gardens there ever was, I think actually it was the

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Speaker 1: prettiest beautiful buildings. It was a very talented architect who

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Speaker 1: can't deny him that his style was the Spanish Renaissance

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Speaker 1: was sort of his mode. And his Madison Square Garden

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Speaker 1: had this soaring, elegant tower at the time, it was

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Speaker 1: the city's highest tower. And it was topped by this

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Speaker 1: scandalous lee nude thirteen foot statue of the goddess Diana,

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Speaker 1: Goddess of the Hunt. So it was a thirteen what

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Speaker 1: nude statue of Diana shooting a bow and arrow. And

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Speaker 1: there's this website, famous trials dot com, and they say

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Speaker 1: that a guy named Anthony Comstock who headed on an

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Speaker 1: organization called the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice,

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Speaker 1: The New York Society for the Suppression of vice. We

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Speaker 1: don't want none of this lude gross. I don't want

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Speaker 1: to see bodies. I don't want to hear about natural things.

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Speaker 1: That's all very we're very pure within here. The New

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Speaker 1: York sality for the bridge in a bit. Yes, it

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Speaker 1: was like put some clothes on that thing. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: they work. They were like, all right, we'll we'll put

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Speaker 1: clothes on it. And Stanford White goes up and says, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll put a little drape on her, dress her real nicely.

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Speaker 1: And then this big wind came one day and just

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Speaker 1: blew the clothes right off of her. So there she is,

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Speaker 1: stark nude again. And what does Stanford White do? He says,

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Speaker 1: let me shine a light on this, and he installs

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Speaker 1: these huge lights right below her, actually drawing more attention

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Speaker 1: to this naked at you. He could have argued. He

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Speaker 1: could have been like, well it was wind. I mean,

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Speaker 1: God clearly wants the statue to be naked. Anthony, what

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Speaker 1: you stand something against God? Now? Stanford White's great granddaughter,

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Speaker 1: Susannah Lessard wrote a piece in The New Yorker about him.

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Speaker 1: She's like, listen, this is a you know, an acclaimed architect.

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Speaker 1: He basically put his stamp all over New York City.

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Speaker 1: Some of his buildings still stand today, and some of

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Speaker 1: his monuments still stand today. You can go see him

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Speaker 1: right now. But there haven't been that many biographies written

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Speaker 1: about him, which you might think, you know, an accomplished

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Speaker 1: man or whatever, but she was like Unfortunately, many biographers

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Speaker 1: lose heart when they dig into Stanford's life and find

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Speaker 1: out more about his sexual proclivities, and so they try

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Speaker 1: and fail to write about him because he was so

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Speaker 1: fucking wild. She describes it pretty clearly. She said that,

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Speaker 1: you know, they went to dives to watch sex and

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Speaker 1: to have sex, accompanied by bohemian cronies or rich friends

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Speaker 1: he had met as clients. So I guess he's kind

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Speaker 1: of wining and dine and I'm sort of And they

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Speaker 1: drink and eat a whole bunch. They go to boxing matches,

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Speaker 1: or spend a night at the opera or at a

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Speaker 1: music hall or something. A vivid example of a night

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Speaker 1: out with Stanford was his Pie Girl dinner, in which

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Speaker 1: was a stag party. A stag party is when a

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Speaker 1: guy throws a party with just his male friends and

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Speaker 1: basically invites a bunch of prostitutes. So that's a stag party.

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Speaker 1: So he throws this stag party where nearly nude young

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Speaker 1: women would serve wine, a blonde would serve the white wine,

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Speaker 1: and brunette would serve the red wine, which I think

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Speaker 1: is a nice touch honestly, but aesthetically I like it.

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Speaker 1: I like it. He's an artist, you know, he was thinking.

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Speaker 1: He's put in details well, and you can see from

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Speaker 1: across the room, like, I really want a red wine.

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Speaker 1: Oh she doesn't have any, Oh but she does. It's

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Speaker 1: I think it's clever. I'm just gonna say it. I

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Speaker 1: like this one element of this party. I really like

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Speaker 1: this single element of this party. And then one girl

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Speaker 1: jumped naked or possibly clad in gauze. The reports differ

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Speaker 1: out of a pie accompanied by can arias. Okay, there's

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Speaker 1: two parts of this party. I like. Is it the

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Speaker 1: pie or the girl in the ply? There's two things

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Speaker 1: I love and it's women wrapped in gauze and pie

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Speaker 1: and canaries, three things I love. I would pay someone

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Speaker 1: like five grand to jump out of a pie for

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Speaker 1: my birthday. Might feel like we could might be arranged that.

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Speaker 1: I just don't have the five grand. Well, Also, how

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Speaker 1: do you get the pie pie big enough? There's probably

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Speaker 1: a whole Netflix Baker's Challenge TV show about people bacon

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Speaker 1: pies big enough for people to jump out of. I

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Speaker 1: only everything of Adams family, and they're trying to get

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Speaker 1: that girl in there. When you picked this cake lurch

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Speaker 1: and they all oud, I was like, oh my god,

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Speaker 1: so dark. But I mean, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: turn of the century gentlemen's clubs, they were all doing

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Speaker 1: crazy ship like this okay pie girl, this and that.

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Speaker 1: So that wasn't really what was tripping up the biographers,

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Speaker 1: the weird sex stuff. It was mainly about who he

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Speaker 1: was having with. Get darker. Susannah writes that Stanford really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed the process of seduction, saying he moved into the

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Speaker 1: life of a very young woman, sometimes a barely pubescent girl,

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Speaker 1: who was in a fragile social and financial situation, and

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Speaker 1: who would feel that she had little choice but to

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Speaker 1: let him take over her life. Then when trust had

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Speaker 1: built up, he would have sex with her and not

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Speaker 1: long afterward he would dump her. So I'm guessing they

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Speaker 1: were going through his life and they were finding like

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Speaker 1: a lot of thirteen year old girls that he had

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Speaker 1: basically ruined, and they were like, Nope, she said. A

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Speaker 1: lot of times they'd start because they had a lot

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Speaker 1: of respect for him as an artist and an architect,

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Speaker 1: and then just now I hate him. I can't write

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Speaker 1: about him, you know, which I get. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: live with another person, which you basically have to do

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Speaker 1: if you're a biographer. You kind of have to live

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Speaker 1: with that person for a while. And it can be

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Speaker 1: really hard to live with a ship person like that

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to write about them in a in

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Speaker 1: some kind of objective way, not unlike the current search

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Speaker 1: I'm doing for one of our upcoming episodes about Said

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Speaker 1: Vicious and Nancy spunge In, who I was like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know much about them, but I know they're pretty crazy,

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Speaker 1: and like five minutes into that research, I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: need to get away from these people, so stay tuned

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Speaker 1: for that episode. Stanford would often promise to marry them.

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Speaker 1: That was part of the lie, and at the time

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Speaker 1: that he met Evelyn, he was actually fighting off a

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Speaker 1: breach of promise lawsuit from the young actress who introduced them.

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Speaker 1: I guess she was like, listen, this guy promised to

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Speaker 1: marry me and then left me high and dry, But

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Speaker 1: why don't you say hello, like, okay, you gotta meet

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Speaker 1: this guy. A couple of flaws, but I really just

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Speaker 1: wanted to stop calling me real sweetheart man. He even

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Speaker 1: opened up his own sex club. It was very secretive.

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Speaker 1: It was called Seward Club, which several of his contemporaries

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Speaker 1: were members there, like the painter Thomas Dewing, who said

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Speaker 1: that these members would explore quote physiological interests and investigations,

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Speaker 1: which sounds like really shitty code. So they were having sex,

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Speaker 1: and that brings us to this episode's first side piece.

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Speaker 1: Who One of these contemporaries who belonged to this club

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Speaker 1: was this sculptor named Augustus sant go Dan's who contributed

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Speaker 1: the beautiful thirteen foot statue of Diana for the Madison

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Speaker 1: Square Garden project. So Augustus said in his autobiography the

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Speaker 1: Reminiscences of Augustus sant Go Dans What a name? What name?

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Speaker 1: What an artist's title? Reminiscences? My reminiscences is this is?

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Speaker 1: He said that quote A devouring love for ice cream

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Speaker 1: brought him in Stanford together in eighteen seventy five. So

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Speaker 1: they went out for a bowl or something, right like

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Speaker 1: ice cream? I like ice cream? No, one else in

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Speaker 1: New York likes ice cream. Buddy, we got to spend

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Speaker 1: more time together. Everybody in New York's got the same voice,

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Speaker 1: by the way. They all talk like this. Alright, So

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Speaker 1: he's he's another artist whose work can still be found today,

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Speaker 1: like um, the Colonel Robert G. Shaw memorial on the

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Speaker 1: edge of the Boston Common was him. Uh. Some historians

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Speaker 1: believe that Stanford was bisexual, a point to this correspondence

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Speaker 1: between him and Augustus as evidence. Susannah says that they

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Speaker 1: would habitually address each other in these letters as like

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Speaker 1: darling or doubly beloved, and once Augustus wrote to Stanford,

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Speaker 1: I'm your man to dine, drink, fuck bugger or such

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Speaker 1: metaphorically speaking, so you can funk me in the ass,

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Speaker 1: but just as a metaphor, you know, no homo metaphorically

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Speaker 1: speaking was the no homo of the day. Or he'd

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Speaker 1: sign off his letters with kiss me where I can't

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Speaker 1: like I'm the back of the neck. I don't think

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Speaker 1: you meant the back of my neck my elbow, or

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Speaker 1: he would address it with like a phallic drawing. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: Susanna always says, their whole world was so fraught with

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Speaker 1: lewd excess that it's hard to know for sure, like

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Speaker 1: if some of these were serious terms of affection or

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Speaker 1: if that's just kind of how they talk like this

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Speaker 1: homo social ribbing she calls it. Yeah, I think the

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Speaker 1: locker room talk of the day. Yeah, exactly like d ship. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to say if they were more comfortable with

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Speaker 1: their sexuality and that's why they could talk like this,

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Speaker 1: or if they were more uncomfortable with it, and that's

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Speaker 1: sort of like, yeah, I whant I just suck my dick?

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Speaker 1: I don't really would metaphor, so I don't know. She

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Speaker 1: writes that in some ways, Stanford's activities don't even seem

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Speaker 1: to be sexual and usual sense. They're more like a

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Speaker 1: form of compulsive consumption, and according to the Gotham Center,

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Speaker 1: he once said that he and his friends could do

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Speaker 1: as they darn please, Right, So she's kind of saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, to a rapist, it's all the same. I

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Speaker 1: guess it doesn't really matter what's the sex of the

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Speaker 1: person is. It's just about the power that it makes

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Speaker 1: me feel that that we're having sex at all. So anyway,

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Speaker 1: not not sure about him being bisexual. It has definitely

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Speaker 1: been floated that he is. Um just talked about dick

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Speaker 1: a lot or Yeah, they just obsessed with their own dicks,

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Speaker 1: so they like to talk about it a lot. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. In the nineties, Stanford's spending was out of

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Speaker 1: control because he had a lot. You know, he had

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Speaker 1: a lot of expenses. Guys, he has all these lovers

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Speaker 1: and he would pay their dental bills, which just sounds

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Speaker 1: nice to me right now because I would love to

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Speaker 1: him my dental bell pay. I wish you had a

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Speaker 1: lover to pay your Honestly, that would solve a lot

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Speaker 1: of our problems. But apparently he did it because he

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Speaker 1: was trying to perfect them as if they were works

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Speaker 1: of art. So it wasn't only about their health. It

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Speaker 1: was just about him what he had to look at,

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Speaker 1: I guess. But still, I'll take it. I'll take I'll

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Speaker 1: take He put Evelyn and her mother up in this

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Speaker 1: fancy hotel for more than a year that he also

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Speaker 1: furnished for them. He paid rent on his various retreats,

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Speaker 1: like his sewer club. He had multiple residences, so you

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Speaker 1: had to pay rent on all that. Um. But he

401
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Speaker 1: was kind of the personality where the more dead he

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Speaker 1: ran up the more money he'd spend, like he'd start

403
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Speaker 1: an expensive project just as he was meant to be

404
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Speaker 1: paying off some crazy amount. So by the time of

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Speaker 1: his death in nineteen o three, he was seven hundred

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Speaker 1: and nine thousand dollars in debt, which today would be

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Speaker 1: effecting the machine two point one million dollars. That's a

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Speaker 1: lot of debt out. That's a lot of dental bills, right,

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Speaker 1: how much do they probably? Medical industry seriously, But he

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Speaker 1: did not care. He had continued to live the high

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Speaker 1: life completely on credit, and some of the laborers he

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Speaker 1: had engaged for building projects were not being paid, and

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Speaker 1: we're threatening to sue him. That sounds familiar, it doesn't it?

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Speaker 1: Like man New York, New York guys. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a recent rich New Yorker who got in a

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Speaker 1: lot of trouble for not paying the people who agreed,

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Speaker 1: and also some questionable connections to ladies. But anyway, we

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Speaker 1: won't go there. So this is the guy who Evelyn

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Speaker 1: met in nineteen o one. He's a leader of society,

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Speaker 1: famous acclaimed architect, big spender, and not so secretly a

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Speaker 1: debaucher of young women and deeply in debt, so a lot,

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Speaker 1: a lot of sides to old Stanford. Yeah, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna hear more about Evelyn and Stanford right after we

424
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: get back from this little teeny tiny Etsey Pitsy commercial breaking.

425
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, everybody. So Stanford started on

426
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: his seduction routine right with Evelyn. He moves in her

427
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,479
Speaker 1: and her mother into nicer digs at the hotel. Like

428
00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: we said, he furnished it for them, even paid for

429
00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,080
Speaker 1: her brother Howard to go to the Chester Military Academy.

430
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: And he invited Evelyn to come to these parties at

431
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 1: his apartment, which it was decorated like super height of luxury, right.

432
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 1: I mean he's an architect, he knows design is, he

433
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,679
Speaker 1: knows interior designers, I'm sure, and it is the best

434
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 1: there could be. Guilt velvet, I mean pillows, you know

435
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, probably gut in today's standards. I bet

436
00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: I bet it was. I think everything was at that age.

437
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. He even had this like red velvet

438
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: swing that he hung up in his apartment and he

439
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: would have her swing on it and Evelyn's like, oh yeah,

440
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm a look at me. I'm just a young girl.

441
00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: On a swing. This is so fun and pleasant, a

442
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 1: red velvet swing just for me. And you know, obviously

443
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 1: it was a little more nefarious than that. Evelyn and

444
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: her mother even considered him nothing but this benevolent sponsor

445
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: right of her career, like, wow, this is just the

446
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: guy who pays for all our ship. This is so great.

447
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 1: And he seemed to have this like paternal interest in her.

448
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: It didn't seem to her like he was. She never

449
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: even considered that he was moving in on her like this. Yeah, yeah,

450
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,919
Speaker 1: they were both totally just like, had this totally innocent

451
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: idea of who he was. Evelyn even called him terribly old.

452
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 1: And it wasn't long before he persuaded Florence her mother

453
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: to go visit some old friends in Pittsburgh. Said, you

454
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: go off, you go see your friends. I'll take care

455
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 1: of Evelyn here. Everything's gonna be fine, have fun. He

456
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: invited Evelyn to this party at his apartment while mom

457
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: was out of town, and when she arrived, he told

458
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: her that everyone else had turned his invitations down. Oh,

459
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: no one came to my party, but you. It's just

460
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: the two of us. What a coincidence? Yeah, right, come on,

461
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: And then he asked her to change into this yellow

462
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 1: silk kimono and sit on his green velvet couch drinking champagne.

463
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: According to Evelyn, that was her last memory of the

464
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: evening until the next morning. She woke up in his

465
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: bed naked with blood on her legs. In Prodigal Days

466
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: her memoir, she recounts because of the unusual quantity of

467
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: wine I had, I lost all self control. I grew

468
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,479
Speaker 1: dizzy and passed out. When she woke up, she found

469
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 1: myself in bed, naked except for an abbreviated pink undergarment.

470
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: Stanford lay beside me, catching a glimpse of my reflection

471
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:45,960
Speaker 1: in the mirror. I think I let out one suppressed scream.

472
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 1: I know I started to cry. I was utterly confused,

473
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 1: still a bit dizzy, and terribly embarrassed and afraid. Stanford

474
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: put on a robe and gave me the yellow kimono

475
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: that was lying on the back of a chair. Don't cry, Kittens,

476
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: he said tenderly. Kittens was his pet name for me.

477
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: Don't please, don't it's all over now. You belong to me.

478
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I know it's frustrating because a lot

479
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: of when you look up this story a lot of

480
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,720
Speaker 1: people are really reluctant to call it a rape. I

481
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: guess because she was a little bit wishy washy about

482
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 1: calling it rape herself in her later years and stuff.

483
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: But when you read that, it's kind of hard not

484
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 1: to take it any other way. She was fucking not

485
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: in her own mind. She woke up, She never said

486
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: yes to that. She woke up freaked the funk out,

487
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,200
Speaker 1: and he's like, you belong to me. I don't just

488
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: don't know what else that would be. That's clear as day,

489
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: I think. But she continued to see Stanford, who she

490
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: called her benevolent vampire, which I think is also pretty

491
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 1: telling how she felt about him. That he drinks blood

492
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: and turns into a bat. That well, or he was

493
00:26:54,880 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 1: like this very scary, yeah, controlling, old, powerful figure that

494
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: she was. I gets scared of, even though he's benevolent

495
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: and being nice to her a lot of the time.

496
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 1: She's kind of like, I just never know what to

497
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: expect because one night you were nice to me and

498
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: I woke up with bloodle over myself. So plus we

499
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 1: talked about that, like that in and of itself creates fear.

500
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: Oh you you provide everything that I need to survive

501
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: and if you go away, if I make you angry,

502
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: that could all go away. Like that's fear right there,

503
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,959
Speaker 1: and not only for me, but for my whole family.

504
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 1: And she's kind of been the breadwinner for a few

505
00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 1: years now, so she probably feels a lot of responsibility

506
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: for them. So anyway, for six months they saw each

507
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: other pretty much daily. For her seventeenth birthday in nineteen

508
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: o one, he gave her a pearl necklace, three diamond rings,

509
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: and a set of white fox furs. And decades later

510
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: in her memoir she would say Stanford White was a

511
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 1: great man, that he did me wrong, that from certain

512
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: moral standards he was perverse and decadent. Does not blind

513
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: my judgment. I think her, yeah, maybe a little bit

514
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 1: blind at a little bit. It's just tough to to

515
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: litigate someone's feelings about somebody, I guess, um, But I

516
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: do feel sorry for her right now, because I think

517
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: she feels I feel sorry for her throughout this story,

518
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,719
Speaker 1: I guess more accurately, But I think, you know, if

519
00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: you had really given her a chance to leave him,

520
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 1: I think she would have, if she could have found

521
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: something else stable. Right, So that's going to bring us

522
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 1: to this episode second, What's That Man? According to paula

523
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: Uburu's book American eve Evelyn Nesbit Stanford White, The Birth

524
00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 1: of the It Girl and the Crime of the Century,

525
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: Stanford White gave a party that Evelyn attended as well

526
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: as John Barrymore, and John had been smitten with Evelyn

527
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: because of her performance in a show called The White Rose.

528
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: She thought he was handsome, witty, and fun loving, and

529
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: they were actually kind of close in age two. He

530
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,040
Speaker 1: was only twenty one. She's like seventeen at this point,

531
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: so instead of these like sixty year old men she's

532
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: freaking to hanging out with. I'm sure she was having

533
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: a lot better time with this handsome young man. By

534
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: nineteen o two, they they're having little romance, They're going out.

535
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,160
Speaker 1: She would go back to his apartment until the early

536
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,120
Speaker 1: morning hours. So the gossip columns were kind of getting

537
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: on them and reporting about them. But he was just

538
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: a broke newspaper illustrator who was kind of irresponsible with

539
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: his family money. So Evelyn's mom and Stanford White both

540
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: thought that this was a bad match for Evelyn. I

541
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: guess because they wouldn't know until later that he would

542
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: become one of the greatest American actors of all time

543
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: Andrew Barrymore's grandfather by the way, So anyway, they're like,

544
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: we need to get her away from this John guy.

545
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: So Stanford and Florence kind of get together and they'd

546
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 1: arranged to have Evelyn sent to this boarding school to

547
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: study acting and art. The boarding school is actually run

548
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: by film director Cecil B. DeMille's mother, Matilda, and John

549
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: did ask Evelyn to marry him in front of Florence

550
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: and Stanford, and she turned him down, So speculation station.

551
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: I think if he had asked her alone, she probably

552
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: would have said yes, but she knew that both of

553
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: them were not into it, so I think she was like,

554
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 1: I have to say no because they're freaking standing here

555
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: staring at me. But maybe not because she didn't want

556
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: financial stability, so maybe she was also like, yeah, you

557
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: just not. I can't. You can't pay for my brother,

558
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: you can't pay for my mom, so I can't be you.

559
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: And around the same time that she was seeing John

560
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: Barrymore as well as Stanford White, she was also being

561
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: courted by a third guy, this mysterious Mr Monroe Monroe.

562
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: He came to see her perform over forty times, and

563
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: he would send her flowers and jewelry and big old gifts,

564
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: and she wasn't really interested in meeting him, maybe because

565
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: she already had a rich, older guy in her life. Right,

566
00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: she's got there's a lot of trouble. I don't need

567
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: another one. Y'all are all a miss. But in nineteen

568
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: o two he succeeded through an intermediary in getting a

569
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: lunch date with her. He kissed the hem of her

570
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: dress and pronounced Devilyn to be the prettiest girl in

571
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 1: New York, right there in the middle of the restaurant.

572
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: And not long after he revealed himself he said, I'm

573
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: not actually Mr Monroe, I'm the very rich Harry Kendall

574
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: Thaw of Pittsburgh. Yeah, Evelyn wrote later, A disguised Napoleon

575
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: revealing himself to a near sighted veteran on Elba could

576
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 1: not have made the revelation with a greater a plum.

577
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 1: He really put some sauce on it. I like to

578
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 1: picture him like in a in a whole disguise, like

579
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: he's got a cane, a false nose, and his long

580
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: scraggly wig, and then he like throws it off. Look

581
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: at the actually this handsome rich gentleman, well, Harry Thaw,

582
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Harry Thaw, who is this guy? He was the heir

583
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 1: to a railroad and coal fortune, and he was set

584
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: to inherit forty million dollars, which I need to check

585
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: what that was in this time? What year was this?

586
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: Nineteen o one? Forty million dollars in nineteen o one

587
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: is equivalent to about one point to six billion dollars today,

588
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 1: So quite quite an inheritance this guy was set up for.

589
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: And he was not a very stable fellow. Not not,

590
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: not Every crayon was lined up in the right section

591
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: of that box. Um paula Uburu said in her book

592
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: that his mother was known for abusing her servants and

593
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: having these just like wild bouts of totally uncontrollable temper, right,

594
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: just difficult person. And as a child, Harry had insomnia,

595
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: he had temper tantrums, and then he would have these

596
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 1: like just episodes of incoherent babbling, just talking, talking, talking,

597
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: and would often slip back into baby talk, which he

598
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: retained that well into adulthood. He loved to just throw big,

599
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: heavy household objects at servants. Other people's misfortune triggered giggling

600
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: fits in him total schadenfreude. One teacher said that he

601
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: had quote an erratic kind of zigzag walk which seemed

602
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: to involuntarily mimic his brain patterns. Yeah, they said he

603
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: was troublemaker, not very intelligent. Yeah, but it didn't matter

604
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: because he had the right family name. He had all

605
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: the money in the world, and he was still able

606
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:21,040
Speaker 1: to get into the University of Pittsburgh and later on

607
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: he used that name to get himself transferred over to

608
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: Harvard University. He was a Lori Laughlin of his time.

609
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 1: He bragged that he studied poker at Harvard, So, I mean,

610
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: he went to a really good university but didn't do

611
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: anything there. He apparently lit cigars with one dollar bills,

612
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: He went on long drinking binges, he attended cock fights,

613
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: and he chased women. So this is his college career.

614
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: In he chased a cab driver down at Cambridge Street

615
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 1: with a shotgun because he thought that the driver had

616
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: cheated him out of ten cents, which in today's money

617
00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: is not very much money. I mean, and he lightens

618
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: cigar with a hundred dollar bills, like, let the cabby

619
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: have the damn ten cents you've been You don't get

620
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 1: to lighten hundred dollar bills cigars by letting cabbies run

621
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: away with ten cents every day, he said. He said

622
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: the shotgun wasn't loaded, but I don't think that was

623
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: really the main problem with that story. It's like, come on, man,

624
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: you're acting crazy. And ultimately he was expelled from Harvard

625
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: for immoral practices and for threatening teachers and students. And

626
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: he must have done something kind of crazy because they

627
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,239
Speaker 1: only gave him three hours to pack up and get

628
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: the funk out, like they were like, you get no time.

629
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: So speculation station, what are immoral practices at Harvard? Because

630
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: I know what some of those guys practice at Harvard,

631
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: And it's what the hell was he getting up to

632
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: in there? Was so bad? Imagine you know, oh you

633
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: know what it was. He was probably like rooting for

634
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: Yale at the rugby games or something. You bastard, three hours.

635
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: I want you the fun off on this campus. How

636
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: dare you? Oh the alleys aren't so bad, he said,

637
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,000
Speaker 1: get the funk out. So Thaw's parents tried to get

638
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: him in line, but not buy some really draconian measures.

639
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: They were really hard on him. Yeah, his father said, son,

640
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna limit that monthly allowance. Ours. All you're gonna

641
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: get from now on is twenty five hundred dollars a

642
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: month a month, real quick, running back to the calculator.

643
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: A month. Uh, in today's money seventy four thousand dollars.

644
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 1: So I'm told you're getting not a penny more until

645
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: your behavior shapes up, young man, which, by the way,

646
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: i'd love to make a month. Now today's money a

647
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: month will be a great allowance. That's good. Yeah, this

648
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: was a time when an average working man earned five

649
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 1: hundred dollars a year. Then his father died and he

650
00:35:57,120 --> 00:36:00,800
Speaker 1: left Harry three million dollars in his will, and bas

651
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: mom was like, you know, that was so unreasonable to

652
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: give you only twenty five How can a man, how

653
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,399
Speaker 1: can a young man live on dollars a month? It's ridiculous.

654
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,880
Speaker 1: Let's let's put this back to a normal amount of

655
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: eight thousand dollars a month. I'll try to make it work.

656
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: I guess I can cut some corners, which, yeah, in

657
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 1: today's money is two thousand dollars a month, quarter mill

658
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:31,960
Speaker 1: every month month, three million dollars a year in allowance.

659
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: So obviously this amount of money every month gave him

660
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: license to indulge every one of his whims, anything he

661
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: wanted to think of gratify his sadistic sexual impulses. He

662
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: went through Europe and tore through like all their prostitutes.

663
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: He liked to restrain them with handcuffs and other bondage devices.

664
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: Big fan of whipping. So he's just like kind of

665
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: into some sado mass kiss. You know, you said tore

666
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 1: through the prostitutes in Europe, and I had this dark

667
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,839
Speaker 1: image in my mind, and then you explained it and

668
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: I was, yeah, that was that was the image in

669
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: my mind. How was it? In Paris he threw a

670
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: party costing fifty thou dollars, which is one point six

671
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,479
Speaker 1: million dollars today. If anyone's ever thrown a party that big,

672
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: I'd like to go. But he threw it just for

673
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: himself and twenty five of Paris's most beautiful prostitutes, so

674
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 1: that's it. He spent that much money just to have

675
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 1: twenty five women around him hanging out. And he engaged

676
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: a military band to play John Phillips douss marches because

677
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: Harry said, the best party music John Phillips is a march.

678
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,279
Speaker 1: I love it because as Harry said they lifted the

679
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: roof off the place they do John Philip Susan knows

680
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:46,800
Speaker 1: how to raise a roof, damn right. And I always

681
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: think of Mr. Show, which is one of my favorite shows.

682
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 1: Bob Odenkirk's like a little and David Cross is like crying,

683
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: like I'll never be as good the most beautiful music,

684
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: and he keeps yelling at a pregnant wife like, woman,

685
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: you will birth me a marching band. Oh you've given

686
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 1: me our drummers. I'm sorry. Anyway. Mr Show is so

687
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: good watching each of the prostitutes at this party. By

688
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: the way, got a special party favor. It was a

689
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: thousand dollar a piece of jewelry wrapped around the stem

690
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: of a liquor glass. I mean, that's pretty sweet. He

691
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 1: also had some other expensive habits, namely a speedball habit.

692
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: A speedball in case you don't know, because I didn't,

693
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: is cocaine and heroin injected together in one dose, Because

694
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: I guess the idea was that cocaine makes you, you know,

695
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: is an upper. Heroine's a downer. So if you do

696
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: them both together, you kind of have like a perfect

697
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 1: cocktail of both the best of both worlds. Yeah, it's

698
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: like a lunesta and a shot of espresso. Oh god,

699
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: please don't take lunesta. I don't know what it would do.

700
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to find out. It sounds awful, terrible.

701
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: And yeah, and many many people and many celebrities have

702
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: overdosed from speedballs, including Philip Seymour Hoffman. So there's still

703
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 1: a thing that people are into today, and they still

704
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: are killing people. So don't do speedballs. That's my message.

705
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 1: That's the message I'd like you to take from this episode.

706
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 1: This week's b s a don't do speedballs. And he

707
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: took laudanum as well, at one point, drinking an entire

708
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: bottle in a single swallow. I mean, this guy partied.

709
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: This guy partied. It sounds like a terrible party. Awful party.

710
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 1: So then Harry goes back to America, splitting his time

711
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:41,359
Speaker 1: between Pennsylvania and New York. He really wanted to be

712
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: in those elite clubs in New York. He wanted everybody

713
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 1: to respect him and him to be like amongst the

714
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: upper social class. I mean, he probably felt like it

715
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: was owed to him just for being from a wealthy family, right,

716
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: But all of his applications to these men's clubs were rejected,

717
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: so he became convinced that it was because of this

718
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: assholes Stanford White, who had considered Harry to be a

719
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: poser and a clown and once called him a Pennsylvania pug. Yeah,

720
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,479
Speaker 1: apparently it's because he had kind of a baby face,

721
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: so he was trying to make fun of his like

722
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: youthful features, which I was like, I mean, oh, clever burned, boss,

723
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 1: you really got him with that one, which I didn't.

724
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: We didn't describe Stanford White, but if you look him up,

725
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:28,440
Speaker 1: the mustache that this man rocked was, I mean, it's

726
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: like ridiculous, Like it is so big, it just keeps going.

727
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: You think it's going to end, and then it just

728
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 1: keeps going in both directions. It looks like a really

729
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 1: bad costume piece, but it was not. It was totally

730
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: real and it was also he was a redhead, so

731
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 1: it must have been very like just really distinctive, huge

732
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 1: red must So another incident happened that kind of convinced

733
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,720
Speaker 1: him that Stanford White had an in for him. Harry

734
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: threw a big party, but all the girls he invited

735
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: went to a party at Stanford's house instead. Now it

736
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: turns out that it was because Harry had insulted at

737
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: a show girl and her revenge was to hijack all

738
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: the guests for his party and bring him over to Stanfords,

739
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: because she knew that would kiss him off. But Harry

740
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: just refused to believe that, and he got even matter

741
00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,720
Speaker 1: about it when somebody wrote up in a gossip column

742
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: that he'd had no doe eyed girlies at his party.

743
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: Harry can't even bring a party together with any no

744
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:26,439
Speaker 1: eye gurlies at it. Total sausage. Best over it Harry

745
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 1: kate Don's place. All the no eyed girlies went over

746
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: to Dan from White's house. That's really good ey girl

747
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 1: like to hang out. I guess because it's a stag party.

748
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: They were like doe eyed. I don't know. It was

749
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: like these dear references are real weird. But it's more likely,

750
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: according to Ruberu, that Harry really just admired and resented

751
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,720
Speaker 1: Stanford's social stature, and he recognized that they both enjoyed

752
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,439
Speaker 1: similar lifestyles. But White could just he was so big,

753
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: he could just operate with impunity, and Harry was kind

754
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,320
Speaker 1: of censured for his behavior. So there was this rivalry

755
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: built in that it seems to me like Harry really

756
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 1: felt and Stanford was like basically oblivious to it because

757
00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: he was like this guy, well, I'm not I'm not

758
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: going to think about him, whereas Harry spent all of

759
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: his time thinking about Stanford. Yeah, that's it was a

760
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: Draco Malfoy at best. You know, Draco is obsessed with Harry,

761
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: and Harry thought about Draco sometimes, but it wasn't like

762
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 1: his overall thing. That's what I think. So the long

763
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,239
Speaker 1: and short is that Harry already hated Stanford with a

764
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,200
Speaker 1: burning passion. He fucking did not like this guy. He

765
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: was probably looking for any way to humiliate him or

766
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,959
Speaker 1: funk with him in the same way that he felt

767
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: he was being fucked with. And some people think that

768
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: he pursued evilence specifically because she was seeing Stanford. So

769
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,880
Speaker 1: it was like that was the attraction to her, was

770
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: that I can take her away from him. I mean,

771
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,439
Speaker 1: that checks out right. It makes sense to me, much

772
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: like Stanford. He won over Florence by promising a lifetime

773
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: of care and protection for Evelyn, and apparently he also

774
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: kind of tried to warn Evelyn about Stanford because he

775
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 1: knew a little bit about these young girls and stuff

776
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: like that. So he kind of tried, but he he

777
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: couched it in very vague terms, so she kind of

778
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: didn't really know what he was talking about. But also

779
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: Roburu was like, she probably felt kind of trapped, as

780
00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: we've been talking about a lot. Ellie Times writes, she

781
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,040
Speaker 1: had nobody to turn to. The sexual power she held

782
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: over these two rich men was immense, but essentially she

783
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 1: was their chattel. That's the contradiction and the sadness in

784
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: her story. So she's still seeing both of these men

785
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: at this point in the story. So then at this time,

786
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,400
Speaker 1: this is when they sent her to that boarding school, remember,

787
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: to kind of get her away from John Barrymore. And

788
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: towards the end of her year there, April three, she

789
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 1: had to have emergency surgery for appendicitis, and both Stanford

790
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: and Harry visited her while she was getting better, but

791
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: they were very careful never to cross paths. And Harry

792
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: and Florence discussed Evelyn's future at this time, and a

793
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: few months later, in what Evelyn would later call the

794
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:06,040
Speaker 1: worst mistake of her life, she Florence and Harry agreed

795
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 1: to sail to Europe together for an extended vacation. But

796
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 1: why was it such a mistake. We'll find out right

797
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: after this commercial break and welcome back to the show.

798
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: We're going to find out why Evelyn Nesbit would say

799
00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: going to Europe for an extended vacation, which sounds amazing,

800
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 1: would actually be the worst mistake of her life. Spoiler alert.

801
00:44:27,520 --> 00:44:31,920
Speaker 1: It's because Harry sucks. He like deliberately created a really

802
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: hectic itinerary which was calculated to weaken Evelyn emotionally and

803
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: exhaust Florence. Like he was really working on these women

804
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: because he wanted Evelyn to marry him and he wanted

805
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: Florence to fuck off. I think, yeah, like wear them

806
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: down until they don't have the capacity to and just back. Fine, whatever, Harry,

807
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: You're exhausting Jesus. And he also started to kind of

808
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 1: show his temper at this point. They had not really

809
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: seen the real Harry yet, but they're in vacation and

810
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: he starts to kind of have a little free his

811
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 1: little temper tantrums and freak out a little bit. Smithsonian

812
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: says sometimes when a waiter displeased him, he would snatch

813
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: the tablecloth off the table and send everything crashing to

814
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: the floor, or even turn the whole table over. I

815
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta say, I'm picturing one time he's having

816
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: a tantrum, he's really piste off, and he grabs the

817
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,919
Speaker 1: tablecloth and he yanks it and everything just stays there,

818
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 1: it doesn't move, and then flip the table over. He

819
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: flips the table and it like just does a complete

820
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: lands on its legs again, and everything's fine, and everyone's

821
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,959
Speaker 1: applauding that very nice. No, I'm angry the entertainment tonight.

822
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: It is wonderful. Anyway, That's not what happened, though. He

823
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 1: was a furious monster exactly. And also, please don't treat

824
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: your waiters like that, guys. Come on. Well, it worked

825
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: on Florence. She finally was like, fuck this, I'm going

826
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 1: back to America. This guy is embarrassing and terrible and

827
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: kind of fought with Evelyn about it a little bit,

828
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: so she went alone. She left Evelyn with Harry, and

829
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 1: Harry and Evelyn went on to Paris without her. Before

830
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: Florence left, I'll say this really important thing happened where

831
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: he kept asking Evelyn to marry him and she kept

832
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 1: being like no, no, no, no, I can't because she's

833
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: not a virgin. And she's like, men, Mary virgins, so

834
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: but she didn't explain that to him. She just kept

835
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: saying no, And finally one day he wears her down.

836
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 1: He keeps asking and asking, he wears her down, and

837
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:34,800
Speaker 1: she says, I can't because I slept with Stanford White.

838
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: And she describes the night to him of her rape

839
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,360
Speaker 1: by Stanford, and he's incredibly sympathetic and he poor girl,

840
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 1: what a monster. You know. He gets the whole story

841
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,840
Speaker 1: out of her. I think she was very reluctant to

842
00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 1: share it with him because probably because he's starting to

843
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: meet like make her real nervous. I don't want to

844
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: tell you about this, but she's all embarrassed by it,

845
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 1: of course, and yes, of course, and then yeah, like

846
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: what's he gonna do? But he gets the story out

847
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: of her, and at the point, at that point it's

848
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 1: very sympathetic and kind about it. But then he kind

849
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: of chose this weird itinerary for their trip um and

850
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: took her to all of these sites devoted to the

851
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: cult of Virgin murdyrdom, like the birthplace of Joan of

852
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: Arc for example. So it was kind of like, I

853
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: don't know, I think that's weird because if you just

854
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: said I'm not a virgin because I was raped, and

855
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: you were like, oh, I'm so sorry. Let's go look

856
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: at all these pure women unlike you, you know. Yeah,

857
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 1: it's just like I'm so sorry, but I'm gonna dig

858
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: into your subconscious about this. Yeah, these women are better

859
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 1: because they didn't let that happen to them or something

860
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,279
Speaker 1: I guess, or just like just again just part of

861
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 1: that breaking her down, just like these little like a psychological,

862
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 1: little psychological these subliminal hints, you know, where he knows

863
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: that she's going to have that on her mind constantly.

864
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to make her think about it

865
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: a lot that she'll turn away from Stan heard maybe

866
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 1: probably is that like he just keeps be like, oh,

867
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: isn't virgin hood nice? Look at these virgins. Here's a

868
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 1: powerful virgin, here's a stly virgin, you know, and she's

869
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: just like thinking about it constantly, so that he's not

870
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: letting her let it go. He's trying to make her

871
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 1: want to leave him, I think, and feel bad about herself.

872
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: He's trying to lower her self esteem, you know, and

873
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,920
Speaker 1: all these things, doing all the classic monster playbook. Yeah,

874
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: and weirdly like she said later that he was obsessed

875
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 1: with female chastity. I don't know if this is why

876
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: she thought that, or if there were other things, but

877
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,839
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to point out that a man

878
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: can be very obsessed with a pure woman and still

879
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 1: tear through all these prostitutes and treat them like ship

880
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 1: because they weren't pure, you know what I mean. Like

881
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: he's got a real weird outlook on women having sex period,

882
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 1: like at any time at the birthplace of Joan of Arc.

883
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: This is funny. Harry wrote in the Visitors book she

884
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: would not have been a virgin of stan And for

885
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: White had been around, which really sad. It's a ridiculous comment.

886
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: But I really loved the idea of Stanford White or

887
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 1: Harry Thaw trying to walk up on Joan of Arc

888
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,440
Speaker 1: and not ending up, you know, impaled on a spear

889
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: very quickly. Yeah, she ain't interested. I wish I wish

890
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: Joan of Arc what have had five minutes a long

891
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 1: Stanford preferably both. Yeah. So he took Evelyn to the

892
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: castle in Austria, and according to Evelyn, this is where

893
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: he kept her locked in a room for two weeks

894
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 1: castle and he would maniacally beat her with a whip

895
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: and sexually assault her all this time, all while screaming

896
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: about Stanford White and what he'd done to her. Harry,

897
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: what are you doing to her? But but this is

898
00:49:51,640 --> 00:49:53,640
Speaker 1: why I brought that up, because I'm like, it was

899
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,120
Speaker 1: sort of like she was if you take out all

900
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: the Stanford White stuff, if he really was interested in her,

901
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: did he think she is this pure virgin worthy of

902
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: his money and time? And then found out about the

903
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: rape and was like, Oh good, now I can treat

904
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: you like a prostitute in Paris. Do you know what

905
00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:15,720
Speaker 1: I mean? I don't, you know, speculation station, But that's

906
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: I'm kind of like, it just seems like it really

907
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: changed in his mind her value, right, But but it

908
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: also just plays into his deep obsession with Stanford White too, Right,

909
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: it's more about him than her. I think in a

910
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: lot of ways, he's just like, Oh, something else to

911
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: punish Stanford about something else this monster has done that

912
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to bring him down for. And here's how

913
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it. And it's totally irrational and

914
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: it's just violent, psychotic behavior from someone who's got a

915
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 1: really serious obsession again with a guy who probably spends

916
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: two fucking seconds a year thinking about him, but he's

917
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 1: just completely obsessed. Why else is he calling out Stanford

918
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: White while he's whipping and beating her? And how does

919
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,600
Speaker 1: punishing Villynn have any effect on Stanford? I mean, he's

920
00:51:02,640 --> 00:51:04,799
Speaker 1: not even there y'all in Austria. I think this is

921
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 1: one of the things with obsession where you think, because

922
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 1: his whole world revolves around Stanford, he thinks that everything

923
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 1: he does affect Stanford too, right like he like, I

924
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 1: think he's got this misguided belief that Stanford is going

925
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: to give a fuck um, you know, that he's that

926
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,400
Speaker 1: he's punishing him somehow, that Stanford is right now thinking

927
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: I wonder what he's doing to Evelyn in Europe, and

928
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: that he can somehow feel what's happening, you know, because

929
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,799
Speaker 1: he When you're obsessed with someone, you think they're thinking

930
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: about you as much as you are about them. But

931
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: that's the whole point. They're not. Yeah, that's true, which

932
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: is more infuriating. So you know, I don't know. I

933
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 1: certainly I don't know if geologist, so I couldn't speak

934
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: to geologist. It's just it's an Internet expression. Well anyway,

935
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:55,399
Speaker 1: So Harry is he's got some proms in his head.

936
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: And after he did that sexual assault beating crazy shit,

937
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: he was arey apologetic but also really upbeat. He was

938
00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 1: in a great mood. Oh well, glad to see if

939
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: turned yourself around there. You know, She's like, I guess

940
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're in a good mood because that means

941
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: you might not be It is horrible to me, but

942
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:18,879
Speaker 1: just awful. And he kept kept asking her to marry him. Now,

943
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 1: will you marry me? Now? I'm such a stand up guy.

944
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: I get worse and worse the longer you spent time

945
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: with me. Don't you want to marry me? Isn't this typical?

946
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: I mean, at least from what I see if my

947
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,400
Speaker 1: my women friends on dating apps is like, you know,

948
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: guys will make an introduction and you'll be like not interested,

949
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, what if I'm more of a

950
00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: horrible piece of ship? Now are you interested? Like that

951
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,799
Speaker 1: seems to be a recurrent threat to this day. That

952
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 1: is true. It's not a good angle, dudes. There are

953
00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: many other ways. Yeah, stop using that one. And if

954
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,239
Speaker 1: you're letting it work, ladies, please stop sucking it up.

955
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: For the rest of it. There are better people out there,

956
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,720
Speaker 1: I promise you, Maybe not many, and they'll still be flawed,

957
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,399
Speaker 1: but it's better than Harry. Well. Unfortunately, Evelyn kind of

958
00:53:07,480 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: felt that she had no alternative from Harry. Stanford is

959
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: already married, so she's not she's not getting his ring

960
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: on her finger, and John Barrymore is out of the

961
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: picture obviously, so she's kind of like, if I marry Harry,

962
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,799
Speaker 1: my whole family and me are good forever. I mean financially,

963
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,000
Speaker 1: will will be fine. So fine. Yeah, it's going back

964
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 1: to that quote we talked about at the beginning to

965
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: to keep in mind, it's exactly that relying on sometimes

966
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 1: violent men for survival, that's exactly what's happening here. And

967
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 1: they married in April five. But even even though he

968
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 1: won the prize or whatever, Stanford White was still this

969
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: huge obsession with Harry. I mean, you don't get over

970
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,399
Speaker 1: something like that right away, and the thing he did

971
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 1: to Evelyn was kind of the focus of his hatred.

972
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,600
Speaker 1: At this point, he kind of stopped talking about the

973
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: club's thing and was just like, he's at a boucher

974
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: of women fun this guy, and he actually thought that

975
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: Stanford had set tails on him was like spying on

976
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,760
Speaker 1: him or something, so he starts carrying a pistol everywhere

977
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: he goes. It made me think of I don't know

978
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 1: why because this is so far off base, but it

979
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: made me think of Wanda and Thanos a end game

980
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,960
Speaker 1: when she finds him on the battlefield and she's like,

981
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:21,879
Speaker 1: you took everything from me, and Thanos says, I don't

982
00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: even know who you are. That's that's the dynamic I'm

983
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: picturing here, right, because Wand is cooler than Harry. But yeah, yeah,

984
00:54:31,600 --> 00:54:35,359
Speaker 1: although both prone to violent tendencies sometimes overreact a little bit.

985
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 1: Um that's where it ends. So Evelyn goes to meet

986
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,960
Speaker 1: Harry in a bar the night of June's six, and

987
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: he's already put three drinks away. So she saw Stanford

988
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,720
Speaker 1: White come in with his son while they're there, and

989
00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: she was afraid Harry was going to freak the funk

990
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: out and lose his temper, but he actually was pretty chill.

991
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: He took it pretty well, except that when it was

992
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 1: time for them to leave, he stands up and he

993
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,840
Speaker 1: put his straw hat on his head with such force

994
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:05,959
Speaker 1: that it cracked the brim. He busted his own hat,

995
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:10,239
Speaker 1: just let his temper stride through there. Alright, honey, I

996
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: think it's time to go. We had a very nice evening.

997
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 1: Let me just get my hat. I mean this hat

998
00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: probably cost like forty bucks, just one point two billion

999
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:25,240
Speaker 1: in days dollars, so he told her he bought tickets

1000
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: to see a player called Mamselle's Champagne at Madison Square

1001
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:32,479
Speaker 1: Garden's rooftop theater that night. Bamsell Champagne. It's the Targo town.

1002
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:37,080
Speaker 1: Everybody's seeing Mamselle Champagne at Badison Square. Copy is Florida,

1003
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: which will last a little bit such shine. So they

1004
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,240
Speaker 1: go see the show a Madison Square Garden rooftop theater,

1005
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: and seated not far away from them was the man himself,

1006
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,120
Speaker 1: Stanford White, And in the middle of the song called

1007
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:54,879
Speaker 1: I Could love a thousand girls, which let me give

1008
00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:58,399
Speaker 1: you a piece of that. I could love a thousand

1009
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 1: girls me two or three, and that's not enough I need.

1010
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 1: If you gave me a thousand girls, I would love

1011
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: them all because I'm a man in six or any

1012
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: point in history. Beautiful number. Wow. I can kind of

1013
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: see why I closed. But in the middle of this song,

1014
00:56:26,160 --> 00:56:31,360
Speaker 1: Harry Thaws stands up calmly walks right over to Stanford

1015
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: White and shoots him in the face, point blank three times.

1016
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 1: Stanford died instantly. A lot of people thought it was

1017
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 1: part of the show, which I think is funny because no,

1018
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,759
Speaker 1: no one was in those see the audience. It's immersive theater,

1019
00:56:46,840 --> 00:56:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, like sah, they're really breaking the fourth wall tonight.

1020
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:54,839
Speaker 1: My goodness, I broke the fourth wall of that guy's face. Well,

1021
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,239
Speaker 1: that's true because it kind of noticed that his face

1022
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 1: was missing now, so they were like just kidding. Tipped

1023
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:04,000
Speaker 1: everybody off, like wait, it's six special effects are not

1024
00:57:04,040 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: this good yet. In the middle of the screaming, Harry yells,

1025
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: I did it because he ruined my wife. And they're

1026
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: not sure witness accounts if he said he ruined my

1027
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 1: wife or you ruined my life. They're making a rush. Yeah,

1028
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: people are screaming. They're making a rush for the exit. Meanwhile,

1029
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: the manager of the show jumps on a table and

1030
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: tells the show to go on. He says, go on playing.

1031
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: We're all in the chorus, fucking theater people, I know, right.

1032
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 1: He's like, we paid for this damp and you and

1033
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: we're gonna damn use that as a lifelong theater person,

1034
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,000
Speaker 1: I could say fucking theater people. And well as a producer,

1035
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: I'm like, I ain't refunding all these tickets. Y'all getting

1036
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: the show? We want to get at least a halftime

1037
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 1: because then I don't have to refund you Madison Square rooftop.

1038
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,840
Speaker 1: This ain't a cheap venue, people, And I gotta pay

1039
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: all these girls, a thousand girls, a thousand girls. And

1040
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:03,439
Speaker 1: the guy who could love him. So Harry's led away

1041
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,280
Speaker 1: by a police officer and Evelynce like, look at what

1042
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: a fix you're in. And he says, I probably saved

1043
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: your life. Or maybe he said I probably saved your wife.

1044
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: With his accounts were uncertain. Now he said I probably

1045
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,000
Speaker 1: saved your life. Not sure what he meant by that. Well,

1046
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:23,080
Speaker 1: it's just funny because it's worth noting. I don't think

1047
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: Stanford ever beat her. He only raped her, whereas Harry

1048
00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,280
Speaker 1: beat and raped her. So actually she's with the worst

1049
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 1: of the two devils in her life. So Harry's charged

1050
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 1: with murder and he's put in a prison to await

1051
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: his trial. You know, because of the murder, he could

1052
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: Evelyn spent a few nights with a friend, so that

1053
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: she could escape the press. They even gave her the

1054
00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: hot new nickname the girl Whodini because she was so

1055
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:51,800
Speaker 1: good at escaping the press. Right, and Thomas Edison's studio

1056
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:55,520
Speaker 1: worked overtime to rush a film version into the Nickelodeon's

1057
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: called The Rooftop Murder, which go figure that Thomas Edison

1058
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: himself would be like, I could make a dime off

1059
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,520
Speaker 1: of this. Yeah, it came out like the next week.

1060
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:09,720
Speaker 1: Like he They took no time, They did not get

1061
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: any facts. They just were like he was a beautiful girl,

1062
00:59:12,560 --> 00:59:16,520
Speaker 1: and that bloody bart over this lady. Yeah. The trial

1063
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:20,080
Speaker 1: was a little awkward because Evelyn testified on behalf of

1064
00:59:20,120 --> 00:59:23,440
Speaker 1: Harry and her mother testified on behalf of the prosecution.

1065
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,360
Speaker 1: Harry felt that he had done nothing wrong. He said,

1066
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: there's no crime here at all. He had just saved

1067
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,640
Speaker 1: the world and all the women in it from this

1068
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:36,920
Speaker 1: notorious rapist. In his testimony, he said Stanford had boasted

1069
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:40,320
Speaker 1: of taking advantage of three hundred and seventy eight girls

1070
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 1: and that workmen frequently heard the screams of young women

1071
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: coming out of Stanford's love nest with the velvet swing

1072
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: in it. So the idea is to make the jury

1073
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,080
Speaker 1: hate Stanford so much that they would kind of decide

1074
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: that everything is cool and kosher and let this guy go.

1075
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: So the trial actually became more a trial about Stanford

1076
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,640
Speaker 1: White than about Harry Thaw. And they kind of invented

1077
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 1: at this point the idea of temporary insanity, um because

1078
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: they were like, Harry's not crazy. We don't want to,

1079
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: we don't want you all think he's crazy or anything,

1080
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,640
Speaker 1: but he did have like a temporary insanity they called

1081
01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:19,480
Speaker 1: dementia Americana because it was the same madness that any

1082
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,040
Speaker 1: red blooded male would feel when it came to protecting

1083
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 1: the flower of womanhood basically, so they were like, if

1084
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:29,680
Speaker 1: you're a dude in America, of course you're going to

1085
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,400
Speaker 1: kill some guy who is a sexual assaulter, and anyone

1086
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: are you would have done the same. His lawyer says, yeah,

1087
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,920
Speaker 1: But Jerry's like, I would murder someone, sure right about that.

1088
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: I've been waiting for an excuse juror number three sets

1089
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: He's excused her number three from proceedings. Um. So in

1090
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 1: order to kind of drive this point home, the defense

1091
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 1: managed to convince Evelyn to share the details of her

1092
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 1: rape by Stanford on the stand. And it was incredibly

1093
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: difficult for her to testify about this. She cried a lot.

1094
01:01:04,920 --> 01:01:06,840
Speaker 1: She even collapsed at one point they had to call

1095
01:01:06,880 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 1: a recess. So it was a really difficult thing for

1096
01:01:09,720 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: her to do to share this, but she did, and

1097
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: she was very, i mean, pretty lurid about She was

1098
01:01:14,600 --> 01:01:17,360
Speaker 1: pretty clear about what had happened, so much so that

1099
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:22,520
Speaker 1: President Theodore Roosevelt told the Postmaster General to ban accounts

1100
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,440
Speaker 1: of the trial from the males because it was pornography.

1101
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: It's worth mentioning here that the public opinion was on

1102
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,040
Speaker 1: Harry's side. Generally. They were like, yo, oh, sure, this

1103
01:01:32,080 --> 01:01:34,760
Speaker 1: guy was horrible and he killed him and that's just justice.

1104
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 1: Dimentia americana sounds good to me. And he got bags

1105
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: of fan mail, and most people thought that he should

1106
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: be acquitted because, yeah, he was protecting American womanhood. There

1107
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 1: was even a song written about him at the time,

1108
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: called for My Wife and Home. You know a little

1109
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: bit of that song, don't you sure? Sure? Yeah? How

1110
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,520
Speaker 1: does it go? It goest give me a gun and

1111
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:03,000
Speaker 1: let me shoot it? Are my wide but hall. It's

1112
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:06,520
Speaker 1: a jazzy little number. It's really it was for it's

1113
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: for the charts. You know it's top forty. What was

1114
01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:12,120
Speaker 1: the next line? There's one, there's another line. Oh yeah,

1115
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: I think it was I really didn't like to shoot

1116
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: my gun, but I need a good reason. Give me one.

1117
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:25,120
Speaker 1: What a did he really slaps? I know? Why don't

1118
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: we use it today? It was? It was it was

1119
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:33,480
Speaker 1: a pop like. The trial ended in a hung jury, right,

1120
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 1: so they had to arrange a second trial. At this time,

1121
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:38,920
Speaker 1: the defense decided, we're going to convince the jury that

1122
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: he was clinically insane. We'll get him shipped off to

1123
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,240
Speaker 1: an asylum and then we'll get him out of the asylum.

1124
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 1: Will work on that. We'll cross that bridge when we

1125
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: come to it. We basically we just don't want him

1126
01:02:47,200 --> 01:02:49,000
Speaker 1: to get the electric chair. Right. This is New York

1127
01:02:49,040 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 1: State death penalty. Was Their electric chair was a big thing.

1128
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:56,480
Speaker 1: They loved using it. Uh it was. He was definitely

1129
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 1: uh you know, that was a possibility. So this proved

1130
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: to be six us full. It worked for some reason.

1131
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:04,520
Speaker 1: They believed he was crazy, right. He went to the

1132
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: Mateowan State Hospital for the criminally Insane in nineteen o nine,

1133
01:03:08,520 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: and because he was rich, he had a real nice stay, right,

1134
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean, plush cushions, fancy arm on the walls, probably

1135
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, classical music playing all day. There's a picture

1136
01:03:20,160 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: of him in like a private room with a tablecloth, dinner,

1137
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: you know, being served. So he was very comfy, comfy,

1138
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: cozy in this asylum. Evelyn testified again for him at

1139
01:03:31,880 --> 01:03:34,600
Speaker 1: the second trial after being promised some money from his

1140
01:03:34,640 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 1: family the thoughts, but then after the verdict they totally

1141
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,640
Speaker 1: cut ties with her. Didn't get any more funds, no communication.

1142
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: That was it. In ten he was appealing, you know,

1143
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: trying to get out of the asylum. He's like, I'm saying,

1144
01:03:47,040 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: I'm not crazy whatever. But unfortunately for him, this woman

1145
01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: named Susie Merrill testified that Harry used to rent rooms

1146
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:56,520
Speaker 1: from her in nineteen o two for the purpose of

1147
01:03:56,560 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: taking women there to physically and emotionally abuse them, and

1148
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 1: then he would pay them money to keep him quiet.

1149
01:04:03,280 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: And she even was able to produce this jeweled whip

1150
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:08,560
Speaker 1: that he liked to use on them. Damn get him, Susie,

1151
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: I know right, she said, I'm not fucking listen to

1152
01:04:10,920 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: this ship. So the judge is like, well, obviously this

1153
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: guy's nuts. He's locking up these ladies and whipping him this,

1154
01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,440
Speaker 1: you're funking crazy. So he sends him back to Mateowan now,

1155
01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: and that's you know, disclaimer not to say that people

1156
01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: who like using whips and flogging and things like that

1157
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 1: in a sexual atmosphere, that's totally fine as long as

1158
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:33,880
Speaker 1: it's consensual with all parties never want agreed to it,

1159
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,280
Speaker 1: and nobody's being paid to keep their mouth shut about

1160
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 1: it later. I mean, that's a pretty bad sign. So yeah,

1161
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,439
Speaker 1: I think it's true that around this time, probably any

1162
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:45,080
Speaker 1: sexually deving itt behavior was like enough to be like,

1163
01:04:45,240 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 1: this guy's either a pervert or an insane person or

1164
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: a homosexual or something, you know, put him away for

1165
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:58,680
Speaker 1: a good but in this circumstance was put him away. Also,

1166
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: in nineteen ten, Evelyn gave birth to a son. She

1167
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:05,720
Speaker 1: said it was Harry's and that they conceived during a

1168
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: conjugal visit that she had paid him I guess at

1169
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:13,080
Speaker 1: the at the asylum. But until his death, Harry denied

1170
01:05:13,120 --> 01:05:15,240
Speaker 1: paternity of this child. He said, I had nothing to

1171
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:17,600
Speaker 1: do with that. Ship. It's hard to say, because I'm like,

1172
01:05:17,680 --> 01:05:19,760
Speaker 1: I could see if she had like her own little

1173
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:22,720
Speaker 1: affair going on in the side, she would say, well,

1174
01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: of course, it's my husband's child and not someone else's.

1175
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: On the other hand, I could also see him being like,

1176
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,360
Speaker 1: I'm I've gotten what I want from this girl. I

1177
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: don't want to pay for a kid the rest of

1178
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,160
Speaker 1: my life, so I'm just gonna stay. I don't know

1179
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: that kid, so I don't know. I couldn't decide for

1180
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: myself if she was lying or not. Somehow Harry just

1181
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: walked out of Mateo one. I guess because his money

1182
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: again just made him. They didn't lock him up, but

1183
01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:53,640
Speaker 1: it was like he wasn't released. No, no, no no, he

1184
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: wasn't walked out. Yeah, he escaped. It was just that confidence,

1185
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:59,840
Speaker 1: you know. He just like walked out the door and

1186
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:01,919
Speaker 1: guys like, wait, should you be leaving? It's like, yeah,

1187
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm heading out by thanks, okay, okay. I guess if

1188
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:08,880
Speaker 1: if you say so, Harry come back again sometime you will.

1189
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: And he crossed the border to Quebec to hide in Canada,

1190
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of people believed that Harry's mother arranged

1191
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:22,600
Speaker 1: this escape because Harry's mother, she's a mess. She had

1192
01:06:22,640 --> 01:06:25,800
Speaker 1: been trying to get his insanity conviction overturned with some

1193
01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 1: crazy fucking ideas, including this insane one. Where her whole

1194
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: plot is. She was going to pay this Brooklyn immigrant

1195
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:39,840
Speaker 1: to set a fire, confess to Arson, get sent to

1196
01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 1: Matteo Wan, and then collect intelligence on the administrator of

1197
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: Matteo One for her, I need a guy on the inside, See,

1198
01:06:47,200 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: I need you to go set a fire and get

1199
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 1: yourself locked up. The amount of places this could go

1200
01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: wrong because who said he would get to an insane

1201
01:06:54,720 --> 01:06:57,240
Speaker 1: asylum instead of go to jail? Who said who says

1202
01:06:57,240 --> 01:07:00,280
Speaker 1: he would go to Mattawan over somewhere else. I mean,

1203
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:02,760
Speaker 1: it's just a lot of things had to fall into

1204
01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: place for this plot to work. And I'm kind of

1205
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: glad it didn't work out because poor those poor immigrants. Guy,

1206
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:14,400
Speaker 1: whoever he was, I hope you're did something else. So anyway,

1207
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: she's a mess. And he lasted in Quebec for about

1208
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:20,919
Speaker 1: a year before he got extradited back to New York

1209
01:07:21,120 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: and put back in Mateowan in December nineteen fourteen. Finally

1210
01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:28,760
Speaker 1: they got a third trial together. It's nineteen fifteen, and

1211
01:07:28,840 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: this time Evelyn refused to testify. She said he hid

1212
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:35,280
Speaker 1: behind my scarch through two trials and I won't stand

1213
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:38,480
Speaker 1: for it again. So Harry and Evelyn divorced that year,

1214
01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:41,520
Speaker 1: and the court decided that he wasn't insane and they

1215
01:07:41,600 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 1: let him out of Mate Juan in July nineteen six.

1216
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: Kind of curious how they came to the conclusion that

1217
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: this very insane, violent person wasn't insane. But whatever money.

1218
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, money, that's right. I keep forgetting about that.

1219
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: But maybe this book too soon saying that he wasn't insane,

1220
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:01,400
Speaker 1: because that same year he was charged and convicted with

1221
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:05,000
Speaker 1: the kidnapping, beating, and sexual assault of a nineteen year

1222
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:08,480
Speaker 1: old boy named Frederick Gump. He promised to pay Frederick's

1223
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:10,880
Speaker 1: way in college. That's sort of how he roped him

1224
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,920
Speaker 1: in so then after this, Harry fled to Philadelphia and

1225
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:16,479
Speaker 1: tried to convince Frederick and his family to take a

1226
01:08:16,479 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 1: half million dollars in hush money, but they refused. They

1227
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: were like, no, you're fucking Harry Thaw like, we're going

1228
01:08:22,840 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: to win this case. And Harry was found once again

1229
01:08:26,120 --> 01:08:28,640
Speaker 1: to be insane, and this time he was committed to

1230
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:34,360
Speaker 1: Kirkbride Asylum in Philadelphia, finally under tight security. He was

1231
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: judged to be sane again and allowed out in nineteen

1232
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: twenty four's like eight years later, and then he tried

1233
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 1: getting into the movies. Maybe I'll just be a movie

1234
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: producer a movie star, but that didn't work out. He

1235
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:50,479
Speaker 1: was actually sued for breach of contract and he had

1236
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: to pay a twenty five dollar settlement. And then he

1237
01:08:53,320 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: was like, fun this, I'm moving to Florida, many many

1238
01:08:55,560 --> 01:08:57,559
Speaker 1: older New York man. I guess they're like you know.

1239
01:08:57,800 --> 01:09:02,320
Speaker 1: Let then eviitely and tried careers in vaudeville. She was

1240
01:09:02,360 --> 01:09:05,640
Speaker 1: in several silent films. She worked as a bar hostess

1241
01:09:05,720 --> 01:09:08,640
Speaker 1: and entertained its stag parties. She may have run a

1242
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:13,679
Speaker 1: speakeasy during Prohibition, and she performed burlesque, though she wasn't

1243
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,559
Speaker 1: a stripper. She told press in ninety nine, I wish

1244
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:18,559
Speaker 1: I was a strip teaser. I wouldn't have to bother

1245
01:09:18,600 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: with so many clothes in she attempted suicide, and that's

1246
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: when Harry, who had been keeping tabs on her. By

1247
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:30,599
Speaker 1: the way, so even though he doesn't want to marry her,

1248
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:32,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to be married, he don't want to

1249
01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: pay for the kid, he don't want to be with her,

1250
01:09:34,200 --> 01:09:36,720
Speaker 1: but he does like to keep an eye on her

1251
01:09:36,840 --> 01:09:39,000
Speaker 1: and see what she's up to. Are you suggesting to

1252
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: me that Harry Thaw had like an obsessive personality, and

1253
01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: that he really closely focused on people that he wasn't

1254
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 1: that involved with, right, and maybe had a bit of

1255
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 1: a controlling thing. I mean, I don't want to say

1256
01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:55,320
Speaker 1: anything too harsh weird. So he'd been keeping tabs on her.

1257
01:09:55,360 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: He saw she was in the hospital, he went to

1258
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:59,840
Speaker 1: visit her, and the papers were like, Oh, they're getting

1259
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 1: back together, Oh my goodness. But no they were not.

1260
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 1: She told the Times that they reconciled, but their relationship

1261
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:11,559
Speaker 1: would not continue. In seven, Harry Thaw died. He left

1262
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,439
Speaker 1: behind in a state worth about a million dollars. Can

1263
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 1: we look at what a million dollars is worth? To

1264
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:22,960
Speaker 1: transferred twelve million dollars, which is pretty good, Although I

1265
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:24,439
Speaker 1: have to wonder what happened to all the rest of

1266
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 1: that forty million dollars. It didn't because a lot more. Yeah,

1267
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,880
Speaker 1: he lost some money in the railroads or something, maybe

1268
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,519
Speaker 1: in the stock market or something. Maybe on court fees,

1269
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 1: that's true. He spent it all at the Mateo on

1270
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,679
Speaker 1: keeping up his lifestyle, and he left ten thousand dollars

1271
01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: for Evelyn in his will, about one percent of his

1272
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: overall worth. Which kind of feels like, I mean, I

1273
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:51,760
Speaker 1: guess it's nicety left or anything, but it kind of

1274
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: feels like a little bit of a fuck you, not

1275
01:10:54,560 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 1: that much, you know. Evelyn's son, Russell, did appear in

1276
01:10:58,400 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: some of her films with her, and he eventually became

1277
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:04,599
Speaker 1: a successful pilot. He even beat Amelia Earhart in an

1278
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 1: air race once and then he crashed also once in Atlanta, Georgia.

1279
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:11,320
Speaker 1: It wasn't fatal or anything. I just thought it was fun.

1280
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,160
Speaker 1: Because we live in Atlanta, Georgia. I wonder if we

1281
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: can go find the site where Russell Nesbit crashed his

1282
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: plane in Atlanta. A plaque. I'll love a plaque in

1283
01:11:19,840 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 1: this city. So Evelyn published her memoirs and the l

1284
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:26,479
Speaker 1: A Times said that her writings quote show her to

1285
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 1: be clever, shrewd and self aware, a good writer. Actually,

1286
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,280
Speaker 1: she sold her story to Hollywood and Joan Collins played

1287
01:11:34,280 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: her in the movie. The movie was The Girl in

1288
01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 1: the Red Velvet Swing, and Evelyn worked on the movie

1289
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:41,720
Speaker 1: as a technical advisor. So I think she made like

1290
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: another ten grand doing that or something that's good. That's good.

1291
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,160
Speaker 1: And she died in nineteen sixty seven in a nursing

1292
01:11:48,200 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: home in Santa Monica, California. She was eighty two years old.

1293
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:55,960
Speaker 1: Not bad. She did marry one other time, like a

1294
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:58,919
Speaker 1: fellow vaudeville star, but there was a short lived marriage,

1295
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:02,120
Speaker 1: um not last, and then she was single the rest

1296
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: of her life, which I kind of imagined she was like, finally,

1297
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,960
Speaker 1: get these dudes out of here, because they just feel

1298
01:12:10,000 --> 01:12:11,600
Speaker 1: like they were more trouble than they were. Were not

1299
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 1: a lot of luck in the romance departments. But I mean,

1300
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 1: you know, she lived out her life. She wasn't destitute,

1301
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,760
Speaker 1: she wasn't incredibly wealthy or anything, but she seemed to

1302
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,080
Speaker 1: do all right and was able to get her story

1303
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: told the way that she wanted it to some degree.

1304
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:28,320
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I feel this is a tough one. Uh.

1305
01:12:28,400 --> 01:12:30,080
Speaker 1: I just feel bad for her. I feel like she

1306
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: just had a lot of fucked up circumstances. Kind of

1307
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 1: felt like a lot of her life maybe felt like

1308
01:12:37,840 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: a prison, even a pretty one at times, because even

1309
01:12:41,520 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: the modeling was like she liked it, but she only

1310
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:46,120
Speaker 1: did it for money because they were broke. I'm not

1311
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:48,439
Speaker 1: sure she would have done that if her father had

1312
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:51,519
Speaker 1: been alive to pay for things. You know, maybe she

1313
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:55,080
Speaker 1: would have gone into something more respectable or whatever, like

1314
01:12:55,120 --> 01:12:59,200
Speaker 1: a more respectable artistic career path, or or at least

1315
01:12:59,200 --> 01:13:01,680
Speaker 1: not feel like I have to say yes to some

1316
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,559
Speaker 1: old dude because he's paying for my brother and my

1317
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:07,960
Speaker 1: mother and me to not live in the street. You know.

1318
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: So anyway you said this about Tesla, I think, and

1319
01:13:12,560 --> 01:13:14,679
Speaker 1: you know, you just feel like some people just deserve

1320
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,080
Speaker 1: a do over. Yeah you didn't get it. Good to

1321
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:21,040
Speaker 1: get a mull again on that one. Come back, And

1322
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:23,160
Speaker 1: I think it's a good story too, because it has

1323
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: so much really important conversation about first of all beauty

1324
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 1: and how it can be an attractor, but also again

1325
01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,200
Speaker 1: kind of a prison for you. You have a really

1326
01:13:33,240 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: hard time with people sometimes if you're too attractive and

1327
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 1: get obsessed with you. And now you're like, I know,

1328
01:13:38,920 --> 01:13:42,719
Speaker 1: you know in my life honestly, I mean, these bitches

1329
01:13:42,800 --> 01:13:44,640
Speaker 1: be four or five deep in the yard and I

1330
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:47,040
Speaker 1: have to like push the elbow, I'm out of the way.

1331
01:13:47,439 --> 01:13:50,720
Speaker 1: Just the bitches. It's everybody, you know. But I don't

1332
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:53,000
Speaker 1: have that problem, but I don't want it, so thank

1333
01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:57,680
Speaker 1: you very much. Well, I think you're so intimidatingly pretty

1334
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:01,640
Speaker 1: that people are afraid to approach you. Well, that's what

1335
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 1: we need to go. We need to time travel back

1336
01:14:04,000 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: to nineteen o one or whatever, or even before that,

1337
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: I guess, and just tell Evelyn, like, girl, you look

1338
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:12,040
Speaker 1: cute and it's working for you, but you need kind

1339
01:14:12,040 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: of a resting bitch face. Otherwise people are going to

1340
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: think they can walk all over you. We need to

1341
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 1: cultivate a bitch face. Should go back to b C.

1342
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 1: This is going to be a really important way to look.

1343
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:34,720
Speaker 1: Just just established dominance. Now you hit him on the

1344
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 1: head and drag him back to the cave. So that's

1345
01:14:37,439 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: the story of Evelyn Nesbit and Harry cay Thaw and

1346
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:43,960
Speaker 1: Stanford White. What a trio, What a triad and the

1347
01:14:44,000 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: turn of the century New York. There's almost more of

1348
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:49,360
Speaker 1: a romance, you know, between Harry and Stanford. There's like

1349
01:14:49,439 --> 01:14:53,040
Speaker 1: that relationship was almost the most intense out of out

1350
01:14:53,040 --> 01:14:55,360
Speaker 1: of the three of them. The way Harry felt about

1351
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:59,400
Speaker 1: Stanford having just NonStop, NonStop focus. Yeah, I don't see

1352
01:14:59,400 --> 01:15:01,559
Speaker 1: a lot of rome ants and this one, Oh no,

1353
01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: there's hardly any. It's a good relationship story obviously, and

1354
01:15:06,040 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 1: it's passion and you know whatever. But I was like,

1355
01:15:09,439 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 1: there's there's very little like candle at dinners and nice

1356
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: things being said, and they gave her a lot of stuff,

1357
01:15:15,240 --> 01:15:18,280
Speaker 1: but even that was more mark of ownership, I think

1358
01:15:18,280 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: than anything else. Yeah, so but of course we'd love

1359
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:24,559
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts. Yeah, you can always email us.

1360
01:15:24,760 --> 01:15:28,800
Speaker 1: I hope it lived up to her your dreams Brandy story.

1361
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,240
Speaker 1: Thanks again for sending that in. Thank you, and if

1362
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:33,600
Speaker 1: you've got ideas for another story, then go ahead and

1363
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:36,720
Speaker 1: email us at romance at iHeart media dot com. Right,

1364
01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,520
Speaker 1: and we're on social media as well. I'm at Dyanamite

1365
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,080
Speaker 1: Boom and I'm at O Grade It's Eli or the

1366
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:44,920
Speaker 1: show is at Riddic Romance, Twitter and Instagram. We can

1367
01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: find us there. Slide into the d m s and

1368
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 1: tell us what you like. And thanks so much for

1369
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:53,160
Speaker 1: leaving reviews also on Apple podcast. That's very useful for

1370
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,839
Speaker 1: the show. So if you if you like to leave reviews,

1371
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:58,800
Speaker 1: or if you like us and you want to help

1372
01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,400
Speaker 1: us out, please leave review air give us some five stars.

1373
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 1: I have got a deep passionate romance with some of

1374
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:08,000
Speaker 1: these reviews on our podcast. It's so great. So thanks

1375
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:10,479
Speaker 1: so much for listening to everybody, and uh, we'll get

1376
01:16:10,479 --> 01:16:12,320
Speaker 1: out of here and we'll see you with the next episode.

1377
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:17,639
Speaker 1: By so long, friends, it is time to go. Thanks

1378
01:16:17,640 --> 01:16:21,519
Speaker 1: so listening to our show tell your friend's names, Uncle

1379
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:24,759
Speaker 1: Sandez to listen to a show ridiculous roll dance