WEBVTT - Woke AF Daily 5.2.24 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.480 Good morning, keeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:19.239 Me your Girl, Daniel Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:30.200 Witnessing the real time militarized assault on students on Columbia 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:38.320 University and UCLA's campus has me absolutely filled with rage 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:53.040 to see militarized police thugs show more aggression and brutality 0:00:53.720 --> 0:01:02.320 against peaceful anti war protesters as opposed to those that 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:08.400 stormed our capitol building that brought zip ties and smoke 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:14.360 bombs and bare spray and build a fucking guillotine. Those 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:18.520 motherfuckers were allowed to go home, go home and post 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:28.360 on social media talking about their victory of stalling our 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:37.520 electoral process. They're being hailed as heroes, as patriots. But 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.800 what we have seen not only in the last few weeks, 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:49.520 but also in the last several decades of this country 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:55.440 is that whenever black and brown people and young people 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:02.720 utilize their voice, exercise their right to assemble to protests, 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:13.440 to disrupt injustice, to disrupt genocide, police brutality, they're labeled 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:19.920 as monsters and they're beaten and they're brutalized, and they're jailed. 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:27.000 But white supremacist boy with tiki torches, yelling all kinds 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:33.160 of explicitives. Oh no, we don't want to escalate the problem, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:37.760 so we just let them be. Tell me again about 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.960 how white supremacists and police are not one and the same. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:47.040 Tell me again about the fact that we disperse in 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:55.160 this country, our excess militarized gear to the police to 0:02:55.240 --> 0:03:00.680 brutalize citizens. You know what we could do with the 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:05.000 excess that the fucking military is given. Oh, I don't know, 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:11.160 maybe actually invested back into this country in terms of infrastructure, education, healthcare, 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:20.679 safe drinking water. But no, we don't do that. I'm 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.240 so fucking tired of America. I got to tell you that. 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:28.160 You know, I know that we're not even through this week, 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:31.760 but I am through with this current administration. I am 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:35.640 through with this fucking country and its hypocrisy and it's bullshit. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:40.400 And look, folks, I know that I vascilate because I'm 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.080 a full and complete human being with a lot of complex, 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.520 layered emotions like all of us are. But this week, 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:52.960 Fuck Biden is how I feel. At the same time, 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.520 you know, a Time magazine article comes out where Donald 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.800 Trump lays out exactly what he plans to do with 0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:06.320 this country in a second term, and how the people 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:08.440 that are around him. Oh, they're not like the fucking 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:12.040 dummies of the first administration. No, they're rocked and ready 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:17.359 to go, ready to monitor women's pregnancies and mental cycles, 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:21.960 ready to throw undocumented or anybody that has brown skin 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:27.799 or black skin, and detention centers, ready to depoort eleven 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:33.760 million people. You know, somebody said to me that where 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:39.560 we are right now is the Sophie's choice of fucking democracy, 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:48.120 which is, you know, what are we choosing here, Choosing 0:04:48.200 --> 0:04:52.960 to continue to fund a fucking genocide with our tax dollars, 0:04:55.000 --> 0:05:01.520 choosing to overlook the mountain of war crimes that are 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:07.840 being committed by Israel against the people of Gaza, looking 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:12.120 away at the way in which this current administration wants 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:17.479 to try and placate young people by also criminalizing them, 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:24.080 placate them with Oh, I'm going to change the identification 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.560 of marijuana. You know, I'm going to downgrade it so 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.480 that it can be used for research purposes. Oh, I'm 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.559 gonna relieve some student loan debt. But at the same time, 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:37.800 I don't want you to advocate for yourselves. I don't 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:42.400 want you to have the right to protest at the 0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:49.040 same time, I'm going to completely ignore the mounting calls 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.000 for a ceasefire, for some conditions to be placed on 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:59.720 the fucking aid and bombs that you're sending over. You know, 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.360 I am out of place, folks, where I do believe 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.200 that Biden is going to lose this election. And it 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.000 isn't going to be because Donald Trump and the MAGA 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:14.159 folks have stolen the election. It's gonna be because every 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:19.120 single decision that this administration is making is throwing away 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:23.919 this fucking election. It isn't gonna be enough to just 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.440 point to Donald Trump and say like, oh, he's worse. 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.760 It isn't going to be enough to legalize marijuana when 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.560 you have tens of thousands of black and brown people 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:39.760 still serving out fucking jail time because of the maximum 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:45.320 minimum sentences while white people put up fucking you know, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:48.559 weed stands on every other fucking street and it's turned 0:06:48.560 --> 0:06:51.000 into a billion dollar industry while black and brown people 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:55.920 are still in jail. Miss me with it. I'm tired, 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.520 you know, And I've been talking to so many different 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.839 groups of people that I know that are trying to 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.720 figure out where they're going to go and what they 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:13.800 are going to do if Donald Trump wins, because this 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:19.320 country will not be safe. And the speed at which 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.760 everything will shift and go dark, folks, you can't even 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:29.680 fucking imagine, because they are ready to rock on day 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:33.480 one of a Trump administration. By the time that we 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:39.640 would make it to the first one hundred days, I 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.360 can't even explain to you what America would look like 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.840 because the sci fi fucking thrillers that are out there 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:53.040 will not do their dark vision of cruelty in America service. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:08:01.160 But what do we do? Because in good consciousness, my 0:08:01.400 --> 0:08:08.280 job is to wake people up? Right, So I am, 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:12.840 I am. I'm consistently on high alert and on an alarm, 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:16.600 and I cannot swallow the deaths of thirty seven thousand 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:21.720 plus people. I can't swallow the starvation. I can't swallow 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:26.080 the hypocrisy that is happening. When Putin does something, it's 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.520 a war crime because y'all don't like him. But when 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:34.120 Netanyahu does it, oh, it's necessary. What the fuck? Why 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:37.200 do we have rules of engagement to begin with? If 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:40.200 you allow Israel to do whatever the fuck it wants. 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:44.000 And I'm tired of being told that I'm not allowed 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:48.199 to critique this country that is off the fucking deep end. 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.559 These people are nuts, and several years from now, folks 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.560 who will be turning around being like, oh, well, we 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.600 didn't know. How the fuck could you say that you 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:10.000 didn't know? It's on every screen? Whose life matters? As 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:15.320 a black, queer woman in these United States? In this world, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:24.360 I know all too well whose lives matter. It ain't mine. 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:29.920 It ain't the Palestinians, it ain't Muslims, it ain't women, 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:39.080 it ain't queer people. So, folks, we are living on 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:44.000 top of their tinderbox. And if the treatment of these 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:51.120 young anti war college protesters are in any inclination, I 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:55.800 believe that we are headed into the summer of nineteen 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:01.200 sixty eight, and I, for one, am absolutely terrified about 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:05.520 what is to come. And I can't pretend that I 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.360 think that we're going to be able to fight this off. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.640 I really can't, because I know how I am vacillating 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.680 back and forth. I know ultimately I'm going to be 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:21.080 forced to make the Sophie's choice of Biden. But I 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:25.480 don't know how many people living in Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:29.240 you know, the only states that matter, are going to 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:34.200 join me in that decision. We will see coming up 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:40.800 next my difficult conversation this week with our friend doctor 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:45.760 Jonathan Metzel as we partn parcel out what is happening 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:55.080 in Israel and Gaza. Folks. You know that whenever we 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:58.120 have the opportunity to chat with our in house doctor, 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:02.679 doctor Jonathan Metzel, I am always thrilled and welcome back, Jonathan. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.280 You were out last week or the week before. I 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.319 don't even know what day it is for a passover, 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.840 so I'm glad that you had time with your family 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:16.760 and welcome back to the madness. I hope that you 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:17.920 were able to take a break. 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:23.800 I mean, I feel unleavened and totally relaxed. So great. 0:11:24.200 --> 0:11:28.120 So here's where I want to begin. You, my friend, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.439 are a professor among many of the hats and titles 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:39.160 that you wear, and right now, colleges and universities across 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:47.480 the country have created encampments, have set up protests to 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:55.000 urge their universities and colleges to divest from Israel. And 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:59.319 how I've been having this conversation is in a couple 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:05.520 of ways. One is that to me, the overarching issue 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:10.000 is not even about Israel and Gaza. The overarching issue 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:13.520 is about what is happening to our colleges and universities 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:19.720 and the way in which our free speech right to 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:23.959 assemble issues that are at the core of our democracy 0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:28.160 are being challenged, as well as watching the complete and 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:34.640 total militarization of police and the handling that is happening 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:38.319 at the hands of police and administrators. I want to 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.200 get your thoughts and then I want to get into 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:46.720 the conversation with how this is being shown through mainstream media, 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:50.920 how it is differing depending on what outlets you are 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:56.520 using and going towards, and just your overall feelings. As 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.640 a professor that is working all the time. I'm you 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:02.560 know with this generation. 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.920 Who all right, Well, I'm going to give I'm going 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.040 to give do you mind if I give four possible 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.120 avenues for us to go down, and then we can 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.120 choose which one we want to go down. Okay, so 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:17.160 number one would be the forty thousand feet issue, which 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.160 I think you've thought about, which is, let's think first 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.560 about the context before we get into the content. But 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.840 the think how just think about this moment where education 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.880 is such a battleground in so many ways, right, this 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:34.280 protest is happening in the aftermath of attacks on DEI 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:39.559 and attacks on libraries and attacks on school boards and 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.440 all these kind of things. And so I guess question 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.120 number one, avenue number one we can do go to 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.720 all these is what's the bigger story about education that's 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:54.000 happening right now? Like why education right now? And what 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.959 are we fighting about, Like why is education in the 0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.800 lead up to twenty twenty four, in the aftermath of 0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:04.160 the pandemic, in the seven days before we all get 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.040 wiped out by the bird flu? What is it about 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.440 education right now? That that is where we're having these fights. 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.719 And so I don't think you can before you get 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.480 into the actual contact, because I agree with you, many 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:17.800 bigger things are happening. Number one is just how interesting 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.400 it is that this is all a part of a 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:24.560 much bigger conversation we're having about freedom, about education, about 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:28.600 things like that. So that will be number one. Number 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:34.920 two is about the content a little bit. But I 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.440 would say that in part, and I'm just going to 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.200 say this because I'm a professor and I'm an administrator, 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:44.880 and I will say that administrators, like students, have been 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:48.640 trained in a particular way over the past decade or 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:52.520 fifteen years or whatever, that they're going to clamp down 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:55.880 on what any group perceives as hate speech, right, And 0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:58.680 so I think that part of the issue with this 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.560 issue was administrators when they feel like, I mean, if 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:05.800 you could just take any group, but the minute it 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:09.760 started feeling like from the river to the sea, and 0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.240 then Jewish students started saying we're oppressed by this, Like 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:18.480 administrators are almost like robotically programmed to clamp down on 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.560 particular kinds of speech that some people find oppressive and 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.640 other people don't. And so I'm not surprised that administrators. 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:28.760 I mean, I don't think that they would be acting 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.600 this way if it was about climate change. I really don't. 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.880 But I do think that the fact that this is 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.280 a divisive issue, where some people coin this as liberation 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.520 and some people coin this as anti semitism or oppression, 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.400 they're acting the way that they would if this was 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.320 any other kind of speech that any group interpreted as 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.880 hate speech. And so I think if this was racist 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:58.360 or transphobic or anything like that, they would be doing 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:01.480 the same thing. I think they're acting in that brain which. 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.080 I'm going to agree to disagree, but keep going. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:06.640 I'm not saying I'm not saying about the response of 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.640 calling in the police. I'm just saying why universities are 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:13.960 not saying all speech is protected, because all speeches protected 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.160 in less a group finds it offensive. Now, I'm not 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.560 in any way justifying the response. I'm just explaining why 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.400 I think universities are responding the way they are, which 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:28.480 is that there is just a coding in universities about speech. Now, 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:30.960 I'm not in any way justifying the cops or the 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.040 arresting or anything like that, but i will say that 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:36.280 I feel like that's kind of important to recognize when 0:16:36.280 --> 0:16:40.120 we think about why this has escalated. Point number three 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:44.040 is what we might call the medanim You know, the 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.960 metonym is a literary term for the part stands in 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.520 for the whole, And so I understand, Like I was 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:55.160 speaking with Antonia Helton, the NBC reporter this weekend, and 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.920 she was reporting from the Columbia encampment, and she's like, 0:16:57.960 --> 0:17:02.040 it's totally crazy. Most of the protesters are peaceful, and 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:06.400 it's a student group that's very multi everything, and then 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:09.520 these small incidences of somebody smashing out the window with 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.280 a hammer and stuff like that. That's what then goes viral, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.280 and I guess the question is what narrative are you 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.800 going to believe, and where are you getting your source 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:20.280 material and where do you get research. But it is interesting, 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.040 like I was at the Vanderbilt protest when the reporter 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:27.240 got arrested, for example, I was literally fifteen feet away 0:17:27.240 --> 0:17:31.880 when all that happened. There were nine thousand things happening, 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.840 and it was just this tiny little thing where somebody 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.760 screamed in a policeman's ear with a megaphone and he 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.800 turned around and just arrested the first person he saw, 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.240 which happened to be this reporter. And it's just if 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:45.160 you were at the thing, you would think this thing 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.520 wasn't a big deal at all. But then somebody filmed 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.040 him getting arrested, and then it went viral, and then 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:53.439 there were ten billion people, and then I got emails 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.399 from everybody around the world. And so we live in 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.439 a moment where what you capture on social media it 0:17:58.560 --> 0:18:01.120 just kind of becomes the reality. And so I guess 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:05.680 question number three is if ten thousand people are being 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:09.440 peaceful and one person does something that goes viral, that 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.720 becomes the reality. And so the question is, how do 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:15.480 you understand what's happening and what's a trusted source when 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.440 all of social media is meant to invoke a response. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.679 And then I guess the fourth point really is the 0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:24.840 point I've been on the phone all morning with my 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.159 friends in Israel about, which is this is really distracting 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.520 a lot of this stuff, Like the bigger issue actually 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.440 is the peace in the Middle East and stopping the 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.520 war in Gaza and stuff like that. So in a way, 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.359 like it, I guess I feel a little frustrated that 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:44.560 this has become like this question of campus and anti Semitism. 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:49.399 I don't know, it just it's frustrating because it feels 0:18:49.400 --> 0:18:51.640 like it's given people an off ramp toward talking about 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:53.520 the real issue, which is like what are we going 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.840 to do in real terms, about what are the real 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:58.880 outcomes that are possible in the Middle East? And we're 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.080 you know it just it's just been it's been frustrating 0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:06.920 because it's different. People are on my side playing the 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.879 victim card when really this isn't just about anti Semitism. 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.400 This is about the N'tonnaho government and all these other factors. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:16.960 So in a way, it's it's a real issue about campuses. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.680 Absolutely real issue, but the issue itself is also about 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.520 the Middle East, which we kind of don't talk about 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:28.840 sometimes when this becomes the focus. So those are my four. 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.639 Well, I'm going to bounce around because I have a 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.040 couple of things that I'm going to say that I 0:19:34.040 --> 0:19:37.240 don't think are going to be popular, but they're my opinion, so. 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:39.280 Popular with me, anything you say is always pounce with me. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:42.280 So here's my first thing, because you ended with some 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.760 people on your side claiming victimhood, right, and I want 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.600 to talk about victimhood for a minute, because I think 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:54.160 that what becomes incredibly frustrating for somebody that exists outside 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:58.399 of the Jewish community is that it seems to me 0:19:59.760 --> 0:20:06.199 that over the last several months, any conversation that is 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:11.879 about it, that is questioning the violent tactics that have 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:16.880 been used and continue to be used pre October seventh 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:22.280 and post October seventh, everything is couched in anti semitism. 0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:26.840 Every fucking critique, And I'm like, how do we get 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:32.879 anywhere if I'm not allowed to critique a government because 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.800 of the religion of the majority of the people inside 0:20:35.800 --> 0:20:41.040 of that government. And what I find incredibly fucking frustrating 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:47.560 is that When you start doing that, then real anti 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:52.760 Semitism that is on the rise and happening becomes ignored 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:59.719 and watered down because everything can't be anti Semitism, Everything 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.240 can not be fucking anti semitism and couch that way, 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:07.479 because then nothing is, and we lose the seriousness of 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:10.960 the violence and hate that is rising against a community 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:15.640 of people if I can't actually critique things that are 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.160 going wrong. So I'm trying to figure out how it 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:24.440 is that I'm looking at people. I'm watching so many videos, 0:21:24.440 --> 0:21:27.280 and you're right, everything that does happen on social media 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:32.399 is being magnified times a million, right, times a million views. 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:34.520 I don't know how many how many times have you 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.760 seen a video that's like, nothing happened today. We ate 0:21:37.760 --> 0:21:40.280 hot dogs and we'll see that. 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.600 Yeah, let's tackle the first question around anti semitism, which 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.360 is what all of what is happening at these college 0:21:48.359 --> 0:21:52.479 campuses is now being set up as college campuses are 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:59.000 a hotbed of anti Semitism. And I'm like, what, so please. 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.439 Answer that. Well, I'll give you a couple of ways 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:05.560 into that, and we can do avenues down there. I 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:09.040 apologize for something like a multiple choice test, but I'm 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.480 obviously work out my own thoughts about this. So number 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:18.760 one is really personal, which is the reason I'm a 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:21.680 scholar of racism in my life is because I grew 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.880 up with a dad who's a Holocaust survivor, who saw 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.919 anti Semitism everywhere. He looked like if there wasn't a 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.080 parking space when we'd go to the baseball game, he'd 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:33.119 be like, Jews can't park anywhere, you know, something like like. 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.560 That was his way of understanding the world was anti 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:40.879 Semitism because my dad grew up Ninety of our family 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:43.679 were murdered in Holocaust, and my dad and my grandparents escaped, 0:22:44.040 --> 0:22:46.960 and it just became his lens right that. And in 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:49.560 a way, when you start to see a lens of 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:54.240 a structure that is meant for you to be oppressed, 0:22:55.240 --> 0:22:57.280 that's kind of how you see the world now. I 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:01.119 I for me, obviously, I've brought in fact I hardly 0:23:01.119 --> 0:23:03.440 ever think about anti semitism, and I haven't really thought 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:07.639 about it that much before six months ago. But I 0:23:07.640 --> 0:23:11.320 can see how when that becomes your response to a threat, 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:14.760 it just becomes very pervasive. We're under attack, it must 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:16.840 be our group, bust may under attack. And so it's 0:23:16.880 --> 0:23:20.160 a very automatic reflex for people with histories of trauma 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.560 like the Holocaust or slavery or other kinds of things 0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:28.000 to go to that narrative and not and foreclose other narratives. 0:23:28.000 --> 0:23:31.119 And so part of the story is, I mean, I 0:23:31.200 --> 0:23:34.639 obviously disagree with the idea that everything's being anti Semitism. 0:23:34.680 --> 0:23:37.359 And my fourth point was like calling an anti Semitism 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.119 makes it harder to see how you're the aggressor as 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:43.520 well as the victim. But I guess part of that 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.200 is just to say that that when that becomes the worldview, 0:23:46.240 --> 0:23:50.280 that becomes people's kind of go to response in ways 0:23:50.280 --> 0:23:53.560 that any challenges like this, and I think you know 0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:56.640 you and I've talked about this a lot, there are 0:23:56.680 --> 0:24:01.600 some basic foundational things about these tests that are like 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:05.119 existentially terrifying for people who are Jewish, right, And so 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:10.439 the idea that you know, even from the river to 0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:12.280 the sea, Like everybody's like, well, what's the big deal 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:14.320 from the river to the sea, but that is basically 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:20.359 something that's very very it's just seen as kind of 0:24:20.359 --> 0:24:25.400 an existential terror. The idea that basically people would overturn 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:27.479 the state of Israel, and things like that, and so 0:24:27.680 --> 0:24:29.760 in a way that's kind of become the go to, 0:24:29.920 --> 0:24:34.640 which becomes generalizable. And again, part of the issue, this 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:36.240 is kind of the research I do, is that when 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.440 you're always saying you're the victim, you're not seeing how 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.320 you're the aggressor. And so in a way, there also 0:24:41.400 --> 0:24:44.640 is a psychology of getting yourself off the hook of 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:46.880 being part of the problem as well as being part 0:24:46.880 --> 0:24:49.480 of the solution. So I think that's part of it. 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:52.960 Is just this is how people with historical trauma act, 0:24:54.080 --> 0:24:57.160 And I think that's an important point. But I guess 0:24:57.240 --> 0:25:00.199 the other, probably more important point for me is that 0:25:00.240 --> 0:25:03.679 there have been Israelis who don't see the world that 0:25:03.720 --> 0:25:07.840 way in the streets protesting against the Natanyahu government for 0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:11.080 a year before October seventh, and we're saying exactly the 0:25:11.080 --> 0:25:13.399 same things that you just said to me in your question. 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:16.399 Israelis don't feel that way. I mean, I've been on 0:25:16.440 --> 0:25:19.960 the phone with people all morning and they're like supporting 0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:22.560 the protesters here and want their government to be overturned 0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.720 and all these kind of things. And so in a way, 0:25:24.760 --> 0:25:27.960 I think what you're talking about is American Judaism in 0:25:28.000 --> 0:25:30.960 a way more than Israeli Judaism. That's my personal sense. 0:25:31.840 --> 0:25:34.840 Yes, I'm talking. I have no context with which to 0:25:34.920 --> 0:25:39.159 talk about Israeli Judaism because I have only been to 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:43.960 Israel once, right, and I've had one, you know, one 0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:49.000 week long experience with visiting the Kanesset and different leaders, 0:25:49.400 --> 0:25:52.680 you know. So when I'm talking, I'm talking specifically through 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:56.200 the lens of what is happening on college campuses, through 0:25:56.320 --> 0:26:01.600 the vantage point of mainstream media labeling protest, every single 0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:06.800 protest and objection to the continuation of a genocide as 0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:10.639 anti Semitism. Now, what I will say is that the 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:15.000 other piece that I find incredibly troubling is that this 0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:18.600 is all cyclical to me. Yeah, right. There has never 0:26:18.680 --> 0:26:24.400 been a student movement in our history, in our modern history, 0:26:24.760 --> 0:26:28.200 that has been looked at favorably as it is happening. Never, 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:31.119 not one fucking time. I don't care if it was 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:34.720 peaceful to sit in at the lunch counters when folks 0:26:34.760 --> 0:26:38.080 were doing that and being beaten and lynched and murdered 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.280 and all of these things, and when people were barricading 0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:46.840 themselves in during the Vietnam War on the very same campus, right, 0:26:47.119 --> 0:26:51.040 And so these student protests are never looked upon favorably 0:26:51.080 --> 0:26:54.600 in protests, is never looked upon favorably, particularly in countries 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:58.440 that quote unquote care about democracy, because there will always 0:26:58.480 --> 0:27:00.640 be a group that says that it's not the right 0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:03.479 way to protest. Then tell me fucking how, Because if 0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.119 it's not a sit in, if it's not being peaceful, 0:27:06.440 --> 0:27:09.080 if it is now having to take responsibility for every 0:27:09.119 --> 0:27:13.399 single other individual outside of Columbia University and inside of 0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:16.080 the campus, you tell me the right way to push 0:27:16.119 --> 0:27:23.600 back against oppression. Right, So this becomes again this US 0:27:23.640 --> 0:27:26.639 against them. You know this isn't right. They don't know 0:27:26.680 --> 0:27:29.440 what they're talking about. And I'm just like, so, who 0:27:29.480 --> 0:27:32.479 does the people that are sending twenty four billion dollars 0:27:32.520 --> 0:27:35.399 to continue the murder of women and children? Like this 0:27:35.560 --> 0:27:38.199 is just I don't I guess I get to a 0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.960 point where I'm just like, we're never going to get 0:27:42.000 --> 0:27:45.960 to a place of what is quote unquote right when 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:54.359 people outrage is never received in a sincere way and 0:27:54.480 --> 0:28:03.600 when movements are particularly picked apart by the fringe elements. Right, 0:28:03.680 --> 0:28:06.119