WEBVTT - Jen Celotta - Pt. 2 0:00:05.280 --> 0:00:14.320 I'm Jen Salata and I was a writer on the Office. 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:23.600 Oh she's back, everybody. Hello there, Welcome to another fan 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:29.560 freaking tastic installment of the Office Deep Dive. As always, 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:34.440 I'm your host, Brian Baumgartner, and yeah, she is back, baby, 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:39.360 the lafi ist writer from our set, probably the laffiest 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:44.800 person on this podcast, let's be honest, the person who 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:48.840 actually got welts in her cheeks from trying to hold 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:54.680 it in. That's what she said. Uh, Jen Salata, if 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:58.280 you haven't listened to part one of our conversation, do it. Okay, 0:00:58.400 --> 0:01:02.600 just go check that out first, because today Jen and 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.280 I circle back to talk about what it was really 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.560 like to be a writer on the Office, how she 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:15.040 started to blur reality from TV, and how she helped 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:20.200 write some of the most classic love stories in modern history, 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:24.000 from Michael and Holly The Match Made in Heaven, to 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:29.560 Dwight and Angela The Match Made in No. I don't 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:35.120 know anyways. I love Jen. Jen is was always an 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.880 absolute delight to have on set. And let me tell you, 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:46.840 she has some stories. And speaking of stories, seamless transition 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:52.040 right there, we have a place for you to see 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:56.520 a bunch of stories the greatest stories ever. Right now 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.120 you can pre order on Amazon. It's called Well, Come 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.320 to dunder Mifflin, The Ultimate Oral History of the Office. 0:02:03.560 --> 0:02:07.720 It comes out next week if you're listening to this 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:10.880 live ish all right, So if you love this podcast, 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:16.279 if you love this show, I will guarantee you, well guarantee, 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.360 I can garronty you're gonna love this book too. And 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.040 well the other thing I can guaranty, of course, is 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:29.480 that you're going to love the Wonderful, the Brilliant, the 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:34.600 Magnificent Friend of Mine that is coming on right now, 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:44.640 Jen Silata, Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:51.600 squeakan Bubble and Squeaker cook at every month lift over 0:02:51.600 --> 0:03:04.640 from the Night before. Where did the idea behind getting 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:08.240 Dwight and Angela together and come from? Oh my gosh, 0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:11.320 I would imagine it was something from the O G Gang, 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.680 like Greg or Mike or I or Paul. I'm not sure. 0:03:14.760 --> 0:03:20.200 I just remember the idea that the two of them 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:24.920 were so strong and so specific, and I think I 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:27.320 couldn't see dwighte with anyone, and it couldn't see Angela 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:31.560 with anyone except wait a minute, maybe you can't see 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.920 either of them with anyone except maybe it was one 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.680 of these like two things that have something in common. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.120 They would repel a lot of things, but maybe not 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.640 each other. So I think that there was some fascination 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.720 in terms of how un Jim and Pam it was 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:54.640 and how it could be played for even more comedy, 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.920 you know, just the comedy romance was the exciting part 0:03:57.960 --> 0:03:59.960 of that for us. Of course, I like the lay 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.400 years and levels, so would want a tiny little bit 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.800 of pathos in that or just to see the tiniest 0:04:05.840 --> 0:04:08.560 little undercurrent, not immediately but of the two of them 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.360 going through something that they want. But the comedy of 0:04:11.400 --> 0:04:14.760 them was I think the impetus for for that and 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.479 seeing wanting to see Dwight in a romance and see 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.920 her in a romance like that just seems like you 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.960 don't want to look exactly. Um, going back, do you 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:30.600 recall could you imagine that their wedding would end up 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:36.640 ending the show? I don't think I could have known that. No, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.839 I mean I was hopeful for it, but um, but 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:43.800 I think what was cool about that show and felt brave. 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:46.440 I think there was a bravery about Greg that is like, 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.360 let's just go for it. Let's just go for it 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.000 and we'll see, right And and in general, people would 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:52.800 ask like, how much did you know about the end 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.800 of the season from where you started at the beginning, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:57.080 And we would just carve out thirteen because something could 0:04:57.120 --> 0:04:59.440 come up in that thirteen that was so unexpected and 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:02.560 delightful we'd want to follow that more. Or something could 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:06.040 not work for some reason. You don't know necessarily. I mean, 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:07.840 I think there was a lot of faith in Dwight 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:11.760 and Angela, but we always left ourselves open to how 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.159 something could pop or not pop or you know. But yeah, 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:17.240 I don't know that I would have thought ending the 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:19.080 whole series like I would have thought it was like, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:22.240 you know, it's still I don't even think I would 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.200 have known we were going that many years. I mean, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.919 it's just like I was so excited. I certainly hoped so, 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.080 But um, why do you think the fans responded so 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:37.599 much to Jim and Pam God? I think they're so 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.680 gifted that I feel like it was the right storyline 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.479 with the right two actors. There was like a chemistry 0:05:44.520 --> 0:05:46.680 and a dynamic between the two of them. One of 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.719 my favorite things I got to do with them was 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.440 the Jinx episode where they didn't speak. I couldn't believe 0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:54.719 the moments I was getting where you know, there's a 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:58.520 moment where Pam, you know, says, Oh, what are you 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:00.640 going to tell me something? Oh, you can't tell me something? 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:02.800 And he wanted to say that he liked her, right, 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.720 but he's now has to be silent. But she says, 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:07.080 what is there something you want to tell me that 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:10.479 you can't And he looks just like his stomach drops 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:12.560 and he turns white and he looks down and then 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:15.600 you see her see that he did that, and know 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:18.960 what that means. They were so incredibly gifted as like 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.880 they could be silent film stars. I really feel like 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:24.840 the dynamic between the two of them, But I also 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:26.880 think it was Greg's thing. And I keep kind of 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.839 saying this kind of thing in different ways of like 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:32.320 the Beauty, the pop of Beauty and the Gray, like 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.960 having an episode that's not about them or is about 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:37.400 you know, you guys are Dwight or Michael, and then 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:41.000 having this little pop of Jim and Pam not overdoing 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.320 it when it felt like it was doing stuff when 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.240 it wasn't even doing stuff. Just seeing that Jim and 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:47.520 Pam were in the background of a scene where you're like, 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.920 they like each other, but they're not getting together. Was 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.120 this thing that I feel like fans were rooting force. 0:06:52.279 --> 0:06:56.160 You could have go to this anybody in this ensemble 0:06:56.320 --> 0:07:00.240 and give them a fantastic storyline and still feel the 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.280 yearning between the two of the you know what I mean, 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:07.640 it's like and it will because it wasn't accelerated so quickly. 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:10.440 The best things were things we had to reach for, 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:12.640 and the fact that they weren't front and center. The 0:07:12.680 --> 0:07:16.520 fact that the pressure wasn't on them made us want 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.640 to I don't know, just made us enjoy it. Yeah. 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:24.400 So when Holly is brought in, do you remember any 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.880 conversation about where Michael ends his journey on the show 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.880 being with her or was this just a limited thing. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.280 I can't quite remember what we've said about like ending 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:39.160 the show. I just remember all the discussions about Jan 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.760 and whether or not to evolve him and Holly. The 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:44.400 decision of Holly came out of the decision to evolve 0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:48.440 Michael's character passed Jan and to a point where he 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.640 was finding a peer. So we wanted somebody who was 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:55.520 a peer relationship and it didn't necessarily I mean in 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.360 my mind and have to be that it would be 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:00.120 her and her forever, but that she would be the 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:04.920 first person that you know, was really appear for him 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:08.160 and that he evolved. Michael would have picked. So if 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:10.400 we wrote the character right and if it worked out, 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.280 if she left him or if he left her, that 0:08:13.360 --> 0:08:16.280 he would be devastated, that it would be a real 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.560 peer relationship, and then the consequences of a real pure relationship, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.200 the fact that she was so fantastic, and then we 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:24.440 got to keep her around and keep using her as 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:27.080 in our biggest dreams she would be she would be 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.080 Michael's person. I remember when we wrote the first episode 0:08:30.080 --> 0:08:31.520 that she was in Paul and I and Paul had 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:33.560 the first half and I had the second half, and 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:37.760 Paul all that Yoda stuff was just pure Paul, just genius. 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.120 I read it and I was like, holy sh it, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.640 this is fantastic because she's Michael, but she's different enough, 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:46.080 And it was sort of like, how do we get 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:50.319 somebody that is a peer for him, that adores him. Um, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:54.800 that is goofy but also like him. You just want 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.400 you love her, you feel her. You She's so sweet 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:01.600 and you just you know, excited for her and um 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.120 so the dynamic between the two of them I thought 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.480 was phenomenal. So so as soon as we saw that, 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:10.160 it was an instant yes, this is this is going 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:13.080 to work because you can think about it and you 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:15.000 can write that he's going to have somebody that's kind 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.640 of a little bit more involved. But I think as 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:18.800 soon as we saw that, we just fell in love 0:09:18.880 --> 0:09:22.480 with them, right things in your head at first and 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.760 you're like, is this going to work? Like what if 0:09:24.920 --> 0:09:27.320 we evolved him past jan and we write this character 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.720 of Holly you know, this is before noise, any and everything, 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.640 and then what if it's just boring and it's not 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.400 funny and it doesn't work. So there was stakes on 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.959 this of like, oh, like how do we do this? 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.880 And um, thank god Paul wrote those Yoda scenes, like 0:09:42.160 --> 0:09:47.559 you know, yeah, thank god. Um. Rain and I got 0:09:47.559 --> 0:09:51.920 into a conversation where I, well, what I said to 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:59.000 him was that I consider Twight and Michael to be 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:04.400 one of the greatest comedy duos of all times. Where 0:10:04.400 --> 0:10:07.160 do you feel like they fit in in terms of 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.800 sort of the legacy of comedy duos? So I agree completely. 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.880 I think they were just one of the best. They're 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.080 up there with the greatest, I think their abilities individually 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:21.120 and then bouncing off of each other. They were so 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:25.560 specific in Dwight's wanting to be more than he is 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.000 in Michael's eye. I mean, I'm thinking of drug testing. 0:10:29.320 --> 0:10:32.480 When Michael asked for Dwight's herein it's like the ultimate 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.240 ask is like going against his ethics and responsibilities as 0:10:36.240 --> 0:10:39.080 a sheriff. But then this is Michael asking him, and 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.160 then they're both just so crazy gifted. I mean, there 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:43.280 were times where I just had to leave the room, 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.000 like I couldn't. I was gonna laugh and I was 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:46.439 going to ruin a take, so I had to I 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.320 had to get out of there. Like you were maybe 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.320 the laughiest writer. I was so bad. It was so bad. Yeah, 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.439 you funny? How am I like you put any human 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.920 being in a situation with you guys in that area 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.640 and a bullpen in What are you supposed to do? Like? 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:05.040 How do you not laugh? Like I was biting my 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:07.400 cheek at times, Like I would go home and like 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.160 I'd have a little like welts and stuff I had. 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:12.600 I had a trick? Was your trick? I had a trick? 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:15.840 I had I had a trick at times. I mean, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.840 it was just mostly And it's funny because where I 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:21.520 really remember you laughing, as in the Talking Heads again, 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:26.200 where you're well in that same room, in the conference room. 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:28.800 That was where it was the most difficult, because somehow 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:32.200 you felt trapped. You couldn't turn around, you couldn't turn 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.839 to the side, like you couldn't find a pole to 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.079 hide behind, like there was sort of nothing to be done. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.319 So I said, your index finger and my thumb. I 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:45.720 would take that and I would bury my fingernail into 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.440 the side of my thumb. And it was just trying 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:52.280 to just think about that small amount of pain that 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:58.040 was there and not Steve being prison Mike or whatever. 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:02.040 It was insane not doing that. There was one moment 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:03.880 with Rain where Greg and I were there. I don't 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:05.360 remember who was writing and directing. I think he was 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:07.040 directing and I was the writer, and we were sitting 0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.600 there across from Greg and Matt Soon is there and 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.120 Dwight is talking and he's doing a talking head. I 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.559 cannot remember the topic. But Greg leaps, he leaps. He 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.120 can't be in the room, so he leaves and he's 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.360 like outside of the stage even and then I move 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:22.240 and sit in his chair so he can have eyeline, 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:24.440 and then I leave. I can't do it. I leave, 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:27.560 And so basically Rain is sitting there and being like, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.000 is that okay? Did anyone see that? Is it? Okay? 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:34.240 Can move on, like nobody's there. But it happened with you. 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.959 I remember happening with you several times. And what happened 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:40.320 with you is that just you could see your brain work, 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:43.240 You can see yourself thinking, and there were just moments 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.520 where I knew what was coming up or I knew 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:48.880 what was going to happen, and it's just just delightful 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.440 journey of you getting to what you were going to say. 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.240 And I was like, I'm not gonna I'm gonna lose 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:54.959 my ship, and so I would bite my cheek, but 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.719 half the time it was just lose it. It was 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:04.199 like an exposure of psychology for my laughing. Yes, Gregg 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.240 talked about the cast too, so not just Michael and Dwight, 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.240 but you know the Accountant's Corner, but Dwight and Jim 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:15.160 as well, and it really everybody fit together like a puzzle. Yeah, God, 0:13:15.200 --> 0:13:16.720 it was such a gift. I mean to come in. 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:18.920 I came in after the casting process obviously, and I 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.360 was just so impressed with all of you guys. It 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:25.200 was phenomenal, just like so strong, such good comic actors, 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.599 but also so specific in terms of your characters. It 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.040 felt like you guys were living in those characters you were. 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.920 You were just so true to them so that you 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:38.360 could be delighted when you know, Angela would come over 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:40.640 and ask you to do something. It was just you 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.120 were amused already because you just knew that. Like, you 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.040 guys were so dialed in and you were just going 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:49.040 to knock it out of the park. What do you 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:56.600 think makes Michael a great leading man? I think that 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.920 he cares so much about the people that he were 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.960 works with. It's his family. He doesn't have a family 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.200 outside of that, so it's very important that things go 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.200 well and he's rooting for them. But at the same time, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.800 he is so uh different in the way it approaches everything. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.480 I think the contrast between caring so much and liking 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:21.360 the people that he works with and loving them and 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:23.800 wanting them to do well, and yet not having the 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:27.040 ability that he should have as a manager at all, 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:32.880 like that tension is fascinating to me. I think you 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:37.360 asked about Michael, but I think Steve is such a genius. 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:39.520 You know, we could get away with more because he 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.920 was so gifted. We could push because he could he 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:47.480 could have that undercurrent of humanity and where it's coming from, 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.520 underneath the broadest thing. I mean, certainly there were lines, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.120 but we could push that so far and still have 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.920 it read true. And I remember, you know, seeing first 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.400 season of the Office, seeing four year old Virgin, and 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.000 then I was just like, Oh, there's nothing this man 0:15:04.160 --> 0:15:08.840 can't do. I mean, he would do takes completely differently, 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.240 give you all these different sides of things and sides 0:15:11.280 --> 0:15:13.880 of him. I just felt for him. I felt for 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.000 him enormously because he could do the sillier joke ere thing, 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.800 but there always was the truth and the reality that 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:23.200 was grounding it. I always felt where he was coming from. 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.280 I always felt like he wanted to connect or didn't 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:30.200 want to disappoint or you know, like, I don't know. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:36.760 He's just extraordinary. So it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous because you 0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:38.960 can have you laugh and then in a in another 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.960 moment you can just cry, and he can just turn there. 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:44.920 There was a moment and I don't remember I think 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.040 I was. I wrote it and I wasn't directing, but 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.360 I was on set and he was doing a scene 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:53.400 with Holly and they were having this kind of intimate 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:57.000 scene and then they started laughing about something and I 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.680 started laughing and he Steve turned to me. I think 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.280 this is the ploper real. Actually hey, he turned to me, 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:04.320 and I was like, oh my god, I'm sorry. He's like, 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:07.960 we're acting here, Like he just was laughing but he 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.440 was laughing. They were laughing so real, which is of 0:16:10.520 --> 0:16:12.360 course what acting is. But like I was like, oh, 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:14.600 they broke because it's just just just feels too real. 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.840 And so there were just moments with him where I like, 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.680 I couldn't I just couldn't tell, you know, because it 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:25.040 was just so true. Yeah. I haven't asked anybody this, 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:27.640 but it just occurring to me. Do you do you 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:33.680 think that there was because of Steve's ability to improvise? 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:37.640 Did you feel like the words that the writers were 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.120 writing were less precious on this show than anywhere else 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:46.440 or did that game not change? I personally, I feel 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:52.200 like they weren't so precious. I think, especially with him. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.200 Everybody was so talented on the show, but Steve had 0:16:56.240 --> 0:17:00.400 an ability to understand so much the subtext of all 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.920 the text that I felt like changing things up or 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:06.800 adding something always. I mean, I think of Oscar kissing 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:09.520 Oscar and Gay witch Hunt. It was like the best moment, 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.199 one of the best moments of the whole show. And 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.960 it's just you knew it was on story, it was 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.800 on theme, and it was funnier than what was scripted. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.679 So I felt like he had great respect for the text, 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:26.399 but he had this ridiculous ability to understand everything in 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:30.959 such depth that if he was going to change things up, 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:35.680 it was always going to honor the intention. Yeah, I've 0:17:35.680 --> 0:17:46.119 been asking people who was the greater loss, Michael or Steve. Oh, Steve. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.040 I mean I wasn't there, but I just feel like 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:55.119 everybody saw what genius he was with the Michael Scott character, 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:58.399 but getting to see him outside of that, and how, 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.320 you know, good he was with everybody else. I mean, 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.119 we'd have like, I remember, we had an actor come 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.879 in who was very young and very new, and Steve 0:18:07.000 --> 0:18:10.879 just working with his performance and dialing in different directions 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:13.520 so that he could help this person get up to 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:17.679 that level, you know, And there were so many kind 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.880 hearted things he did that, like you know, Michael Scott 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:25.679 was brilliant, but to know that that's who he's playing 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.560 with any steps out of that role and just as 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:32.600 a human was just such a good man. I have 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:53.320 to say, Steve, did you ever think of Greg as 0:18:53.359 --> 0:19:00.520 a teacher? M hm. I feel like I learned an 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.479 enormous amount from Greig. I'm trying to think of the 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:07.520 thing my my greatest takeaways from being Greg. I had 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.960 been writing for a while by the time I was 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.360 working with Greg, and so I think that even though 0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:17.000 there were writing things to learn, I think I learned 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:20.679 a lot of things about leadership that I really was 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:24.040 kind of focused on or thinking about. He was phenomenally 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:26.359 good at story and so many things. So I learned 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:28.399 from just being around him about how he approaches and 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.000 how he attacks things. But I'm just going to try 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.200 to think about the things now. I'm my brain. I'm 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.520 sort of thinking about it live. I have a little 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:35.960 bit of a d D D. If you haven't noticed that. 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:40.200 One thing is he had this idea about blue skying, 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:43.439 where he would say, let's think about the ideas in 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:45.679 this area, and we would think about it, and we 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.520 would just think about throw out ideas, throw out ideas. 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.960 Even when we had great or even excellent ideas, He's like, 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:56.000 keep going. So the amount of times we had something 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.400 that was great and he would come in and challenge 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.399 and test and want to take it and shaken and 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.040 turn it upside down. Every time we did that, we 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:05.800 came up with something better. It wasn't lateral, it wasn't worse. 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:07.840 It wasn't that we should have stayed with that first thing. 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.080 It was better. So the fact that he hired people 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:16.439 that were so animated and passionate, and he wasn't scared 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:19.040 of somebody who would constantly challenge him, you know, like 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.280 he wanted to have people who would fight him on 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:24.280 stuff in the room. He wanted wherever the idea came 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.400 from that was best. He just wanted that idea in there. 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:29.320 It did not have to be his idea. And I've 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:32.040 worked with show runners who are brilliant, but it had 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:34.480 to be their stamp had to be on something. But 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:39.240 to his credit, he uh got a group of people 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.680 that all thought differently and that we're going to fight 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.520 in the room about things that mattered to them. They 0:20:43.520 --> 0:20:46.199 all gave a ship and they all thought and I've 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.320 been fortunate enough to work with a bunch of different people, 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:50.680 and I sort of divided everybody into all the show 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.440 runners I've worked with into I Basically I told Greg this. 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:56.359 I said, they're all control freaks because you have to 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.880 be some level of, you know, really caring and being 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:02.240 very meticulous about what you put out into the world. 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.240 But I think there are control freaks with egos and 0:21:05.280 --> 0:21:08.879 control freaks without egos, And the difference between creating a 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:12.159 show with that kind of vibe where you have somebody 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:16.520 very smart, filtering everything and deciding it, but wants to 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.439 hear everything and wants to be challenged, and if he 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.399 doesn't agree with you, I'm going to come back and 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:24.320 say it three more times, you know what I mean? 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:27.400 Like there's I with the no sound of the proposal. 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:30.399 I I just was beating that drum for weeks because 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.320 it meant that much to me. But um, steaks and 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.480 escalation and surprise and all those things he's such a 0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:40.800 master at. And some of those um either I relearned 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.560 or learned a Greg way of doing things that was phenomenal. 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:45.760 But I kept thinking about leadership when I was working 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:50.240 with him. So interesting, so other than blue skying, if 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.000 there's anything else specifically about the work in the writer's room, 0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:55.280 or because was like a beautiful mind in there. I 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.400 don't know if anyone's told you that. Note cards everywhere, 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:00.800 thousands and thousands of note cards, fragments, piece is of cards, 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.119 pieces of stories, character, um things. You'd look at a 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:05.480 card and you were like, I have no idea what 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:08.959 this card means, Like you have to try to remember, um, 0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:11.960 candy bags, you know, like I didn't know candy bags 0:22:12.000 --> 0:22:14.960 before the office, which was we would have, you know, 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.119 a thirty five forty page scripts sometimes and eventually it 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.160 would be twenty minutes or twenty one minutes. And then 0:22:20.240 --> 0:22:23.080 additionally we would have sometimes a sixty or eighty page 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.879 joke bag. So like for every talking head of of yours, 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.520 we'd have ten additional talking heads if we had the 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.640 time and you know, we could get to them, we'd 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:36.000 have alternate jokes for scenes. Um, yeah, I think that 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.119 them trying to think of other Greg things that were specific, 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:41.359 I could tell a story if you want about Greg 0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:46.040 and I trying to write a script together. Um, I 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:48.159 wonder if I should say that. I think you'd be 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.520 fine with this, But I had to write an episode 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:52.439