1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:27,639
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

2
00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,160
Speaker 1: the show, fellow Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so

3
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Let's hear it for the man, Myth,

4
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,000
Speaker 1: the Legend. Our super producer Max Fabio Williams.

5
00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,440
Speaker 2: Fellows actually have my hair down right now.

6
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,680
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, dude, don't tell hr. It sounds like I'm

7
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,320
Speaker 3: the Sopranos referring to a sex worker.

8
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I got to rock the twenty four inches

9
00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,320
Speaker 2: of hair that I'm coming right now.

10
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: And for a good cause maybe because if you get

11
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: tired of it, we know you, well, you are the

12
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,600
Speaker 1: kind of person to donate to you something like Locks

13
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,000
Speaker 1: of Love.

14
00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 2: That's the plan that's been for about three years now.

15
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:04,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

16
00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,520
Speaker 3: No, you said you found another organization that you prefer.

17
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,640
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, it's what is the name of it. It's

18
00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,240
Speaker 3: like it's it's like wigs for kids. I think the

19
00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 3: name of that. If that's not the name, then I

20
00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,240
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know.

21
00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,200
Speaker 2: The same thing that always bend to donate the hair.

22
00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:22,399
Speaker 2: Because it was like COVID was coming around and it

23
00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:23,840
Speaker 2: was like ten inches long. I was like, oh, let's

24
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 2: keep throwing it. And then the cove.

25
00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,360
Speaker 3: It's a commodity. It looks good. You grew it yourself. Then.

26
00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,160
Speaker 2: Also, like you know, it's been like what four or

27
00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:33,679
Speaker 2: five years since that point, So.

28
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, about four or five hundred degrees here in Atlanta,

29
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,199
Speaker 3: only just now starting to turn to the proper fall

30
00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:42,679
Speaker 3: fall half fallen, y'all, and I'm here for it.

31
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,720
Speaker 1: Yes, we are a tumnial and I've been bullen. That

32
00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:52,000
Speaker 1: is Noel Brown. And here at the end of summer

33
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 1: we are heading into autumn and our fair metropolis of

34
00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,000
Speaker 1: Atlanta metro area. We thought we'd celebrate with a pretty

35
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,440
Speaker 1: weird idea and all something kind of meta that's been

36
00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 1: on our minds because you know, over the years, you

37
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,519
Speaker 1: and I have explored all sorts of bizarre people, places

38
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 1: and events throughout history, and I think it's fair to

39
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,560
Speaker 1: say that our north star has always been what makes

40
00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:19,919
Speaker 1: this specifically ridiculous?

41
00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,520
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, for better or worse, sometimes more than others.

42
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,080
Speaker 3: But we do try to not you know, do a

43
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,400
Speaker 3: story that's just purely a bummer. They try to have

44
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,880
Speaker 3: some sort of ridiculous lift in there somewhere, but it's true.

45
00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,760
Speaker 3: And you know, Bet I never you know that both

46
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,840
Speaker 3: of us are fans of etymology, and we're always wondering

47
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,600
Speaker 3: where words came from. But I just I've just always

48
00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,840
Speaker 3: accepted ridiculous for its own merits. It never even occurred

49
00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 3: to me to ask the question, where does the word

50
00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 3: ridiculous come from? I'm not sure if that says more

51
00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 3: about me or more of about the power of the word.

52
00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:55,920
Speaker 3: M Yeah.

53
00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: Despite almost eight years of creating new episodes a week,

54
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,520
Speaker 1: which puts us around eight hundred and thirty two episodes

55
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 1: this October, folks, Yeah, despite diving into almost every imaginable

56
00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:13,400
Speaker 1: angle of ridiculous things, we have never asked about the

57
00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,000
Speaker 1: word itself, which is itsself ridiculous that we didn't ask?

58
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,519
Speaker 1: So what is this word? Where does the word come from?

59
00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,440
Speaker 1: Today we're solving the mystery.

60
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 3: We're over the moon.

61
00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: To have you a board with us.

62
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,400
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm gonna put forth that it has something to

63
00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 3: do with something that is worthy of ridicule. Maybe, yeah, yeah,

64
00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:40,360
Speaker 3: I don't know. Let's get into it. Let's get into it.

65
00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,200
Speaker 3: Let's get into it. It's not that hard actually, as

66
00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,320
Speaker 3: it turns out, to define words. It's a pretty common

67
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 3: word in English, unlike words like what is this sesqua pedallion?

68
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,360
Speaker 3: That's okay. This is a new one on me. Um, yeah, Ben,

69
00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:57,280
Speaker 3: give give it to us.

70
00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,520
Speaker 1: What is sesqua padallion? It technically means two things. It

71
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: means a foot and a half long, and it means

72
00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: a person who loves using long words to just or

73
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 1: to describe long words themselves. And so, to be clear,

74
00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:20,560
Speaker 1: that second meaning is almost always used as an insult,

75
00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,800
Speaker 1: dissing people who engage with overly verbose language. And you know,

76
00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,280
Speaker 1: it's kind of self defeating, right, The irony is not

77
00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 1: lost on either of us there.

78
00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,719
Speaker 3: I think you're sort of like pot calling the kettle

79
00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,680
Speaker 3: black there a little bit. If that expression is still allowed,

80
00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,080
Speaker 3: I think it is. Yeah, Yeah, it's weird.

81
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,880
Speaker 1: It's a pyrrhic victory to criticize someone for being wordy

82
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,599
Speaker 1: by using one of the nerdiest dang words in the

83
00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:46,640
Speaker 1: English language.

84
00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 3: I think people would literally drop dead of eyrol if

85
00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 3: someone were to use this like out loud in the

86
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,839
Speaker 3: context of like a diss. I just don't think I

87
00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:57,000
Speaker 3: could handle it personally.

88
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,960
Speaker 1: I've only heard it deployed in common conversations when I

89
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 1: was in the Ivory Tower of Academia.

90
00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 3: And there it was a burner. There was a banger,

91
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,960
Speaker 3: sick ber mic drops bidallion.

92
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,760
Speaker 1: Right, the conference is over. Everybody steal as many sandwiches

93
00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: as you can all the way out.

94
00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,600
Speaker 3: But there are academic sandwiches are the worst though. Man,

95
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 3: they're those tiny little ones. I had the concept of

96
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 3: finger foods. It always gives me the mill like it.

97
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,560
Speaker 1: I still don't understand, you know, the concept of high

98
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 1: t cucumber sandwiches. We'll get into some of that when

99
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 1: we talk about the Kentucky Derby and the Masters and

100
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,400
Speaker 1: their sandwiches. But what we're saying here, folks, is out

101
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 1: of all the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of words

102
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,320
Speaker 1: in the English language, no one sure how many there

103
00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,760
Speaker 1: are by the way, ridiculous, it doesn't really stand out.

104
00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,200
Speaker 1: And that's why folks like Noel and Max and myself

105
00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 1: are never really questioning it. As you said, we're sort

106
00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,440
Speaker 1: of accepting it. It is not the most common word

107
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 1: in the English like whiche. Can you guess what the

108
00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,560
Speaker 1: most common word in the English language is.

109
00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:11,400
Speaker 3: I'm not picking up what you you heard this, it's

110
00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 3: the T, not like thhe.

111
00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:19,800
Speaker 1: So let's get to it. And what does ridiculous mean today?

112
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think we all know that it typically refers

113
00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 3: to something that is extremely silly or potentially even unreasonable.

114
00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,920
Speaker 3: You know, you can say, man, you look ridiculous talking

115
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,680
Speaker 3: about someone's outfit being a little outlandish, or you could

116
00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,599
Speaker 3: say you're being ridiculous, meaning that you're being obstinate, or

117
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,560
Speaker 3: you're not giving an inch, or you're like really digging

118
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,560
Speaker 3: in on something that you absolutely should not be doing.

119
00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:49,480
Speaker 3: Cambridge describes it as stupid or unreasonable, and ding ding

120
00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:53,479
Speaker 3: ding deserving to be laughed at, worthy of ridicule. Ouch,

121
00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,600
Speaker 3: not nice, Cambridge. They've got some acerbic wits over there

122
00:06:57,640 --> 00:06:58,480
Speaker 3: at Cambridge.

123
00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:00,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess someone was having rough day at the

124
00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,839
Speaker 1: dictionary factory when they wrote that. When I mean, if

125
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: we want to convey that meaning, we are not limited

126
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:13,560
Speaker 1: to the R word. You can also use synonyms like absurd, cock.

127
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,440
Speaker 3: Eyed, idiotic, laugh. Kaka maimi.

128
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, kaka maimi is of course the favorite. Uh And that's.

129
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,120
Speaker 3: That's what I put a link to as well, because

130
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,480
Speaker 3: it's just such a weird word. I wish we could

131
00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,800
Speaker 3: do our own show all.

132
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,440
Speaker 1: About ridiculous words or ridiculous etymology.

133
00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:31,440
Speaker 3: Ben. You know, I don't think I've ever seen kaka

134
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,679
Speaker 3: mamie in print before. I had a really outlandish kaka

135
00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,880
Speaker 3: mami spelling of it in mind, but it's actually a

136
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:39,480
Speaker 3: little bit more. No, wait a minute, there is an

137
00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 3: alternate spelling, though apparently less common, which is more what

138
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,320
Speaker 3: I had in mind, c O C K A M

139
00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,240
Speaker 3: A M y, though the more proper spelling would be

140
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,120
Speaker 3: co O C K A M A I e uh.

141
00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,960
Speaker 3: And of course again, you know, stand in for ridiculous,

142
00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 3: something that is worthy of ridicule. Even the word ridiculous

143
00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,480
Speaker 3: is in the Webster description for kakamamie. Incredible is another

144
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,040
Speaker 3: one that I've always found interesting, sort of like awesome.

145
00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:09,400
Speaker 3: If you say something's incredible, that can mean you're really

146
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 3: impressed by it, but it can also mean it's kind

147
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 3: of someone maybe telling a whopper, you.

148
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 1: Know, yeah, without credibility.

149
00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 3: Right.

150
00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:21,360
Speaker 1: So this shows us throughout the evolution of English, it

151
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:25,880
Speaker 1: shows us one thing, all of the daddy languages that

152
00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,760
Speaker 1: led to English, all it shows us is that for

153
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,280
Speaker 1: a long time, for the course of human history, people

154
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,760
Speaker 1: have been talking trash. And this gets us to the

155
00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,440
Speaker 1: evolution of that specific word ridiculous. It's time for I'm

156
00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,280
Speaker 1: doing a drum roll in less Mexic gets a better sound.

157
00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 3: Etymology, Yeah, etymology indeed, not to be confused with atemama,

158
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:56,160
Speaker 3: which is a delicious snack. Ridiculous is a surprisingly old word,

159
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,719
Speaker 3: and it used to be damn near fighting word right,

160
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,760
Speaker 3: way more mean than anyone would ever use it as today,

161
00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 3: again more attacking somebody's credibility. It's first documented all the

162
00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,200
Speaker 3: way back in the fifteen hundreds.

163
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:18,719
Speaker 1: The Oxford English Dictionary's earliest evidence for ridiculous in print

164
00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 1: is from fifteen thirty three. It's found in the writing

165
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,120
Speaker 1: of a guy named Thomas Elliott, not spelled the way

166
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,240
Speaker 1: you think, a humanist and a diplomat. His last name

167
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: is often spelled Elyot or Elyott. But I think we

168
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,360
Speaker 1: should take a second to shout this guy out. Most

169
00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,920
Speaker 1: people probably haven't heard of Tommy, but he is one

170
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 1: of the main reasons fiction books you read today are

171
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,160
Speaker 1: in English instead of Latin.

172
00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,920
Speaker 3: You knew, isn't that weird? We didn't. It is weird.

173
00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,160
Speaker 3: I didn't know one person could have that much influence.

174
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,560
Speaker 3: He is one of the very first people who said, hey,

175
00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,760
Speaker 3: let's perhaps write English literature English, since that's what so

176
00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,719
Speaker 3: many regular people were speaking in those days. So it

177
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:08,560
Speaker 3: might sound like a little tiny historical footnote, which kind

178
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:10,480
Speaker 3: of is. But again, it's a lot of influence for

179
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:12,760
Speaker 3: one person to be able to change the tide of

180
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,560
Speaker 3: language like that. It's tough for us to fully grasp

181
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 3: how incredibly important this person was, and again changing the

182
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,560
Speaker 3: way we communicate, the way we consume information.

183
00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:24,240
Speaker 4: M M.

184
00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, it reminds me of how we marveled at the

185
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,640
Speaker 1: invention of containers way back in antiquity. At some point

186
00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:38,320
Speaker 1: before the discovery of containers, people just had to live

187
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,520
Speaker 1: by the water until somebody, right, until somebody figured out

188
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 1: you could build a thing to hold other stuff.

189
00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,080
Speaker 3: The humble vessel. It seems like just an idea as

190
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,400
Speaker 3: old as time. But yeah, you know, it's funny. It's

191
00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 3: one of those basic things where it's sort of like

192
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 3: it implies a newfound understanding of the way matter works. Right,

193
00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,199
Speaker 3: What if I took this stuff and put other stuff

194
00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:07,400
Speaker 3: inside the stuff, and can I find the right stuff

195
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 3: the right stuff? Yeah, let's try different stuffs, see what

196
00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 3: works the best. Exactly, this is wild.

197
00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:17,959
Speaker 1: So all we're saying is shout out to you, Tommy, Eh,

198
00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,359
Speaker 1: back to ridiculous.

199
00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,240
Speaker 3: Fast forward just a few years.

200
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,319
Speaker 1: By the time we get to the fifteen forties, it's

201
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:30,240
Speaker 1: spelled ridiculos, r id y c, ridiculous l O U

202
00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:33,600
Speaker 1: s E. And that's still pretty mean. It means worthy

203
00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: of ridicule or huh contemptuous laughter.

204
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,560
Speaker 3: Ooh, contemptuous, very mean spirit of perhaps someone in the

205
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 3: in the stockades, worthy of being pilloried, you know, having

206
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,800
Speaker 3: tomatoes and stuff thrown at them. The implication would be

207
00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 3: imparting a sense of vast inferiority, an idiot, a loser,

208
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 3: an absolute buffoon, someone who is beneath you. It is

209
00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 3: an absolute character asassination. To use this in those days, yeah,

210
00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:03,440
Speaker 3: it's calling.

211
00:12:03,760 --> 00:12:08,200
Speaker 1: Calling someone ridiculous means you are, you are massively lesser.

212
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:10,480
Speaker 1: You are for the birds, you were straight up a

213
00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:11,920
Speaker 1: grade dumb.

214
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 3: Not to be taken seriously.

215
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,720
Speaker 1: And when we get to English, like so many words,

216
00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,240
Speaker 1: we learned that the English use of ridiculous comes from

217
00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 1: Latin ridict culus, which means laughable, funny, or absurd, and

218
00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,800
Speaker 1: that comes from madeira, which just means to laugh.

219
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:30,760
Speaker 3: Can I just say, but I applaud you for your

220
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,000
Speaker 3: use of the phrase daddy words. I just the child

221
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,320
Speaker 3: in me giggles every time a little bit, but it

222
00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 3: absolutely is a fantastic descriptor. So we're gonna talk about

223
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:42,320
Speaker 3: some daddy words.

224
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and also shout out to past us when when

225
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,560
Speaker 1: we fell in love with I still don't recall whether

226
00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:55,840
Speaker 1: it was a song we seriously worked on or if

227
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,439
Speaker 1: it was just a game we played, But we had

228
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,160
Speaker 1: this rap game called Daddy Daddy math. Yeah, we're like,

229
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,880
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah, that's daddy blah blah blah blah.

230
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know what it is. It's

231
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 3: a simple math.

232
00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:11,400
Speaker 1: We'd never built out the world on that one, but

233
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: we can't tell you. Ridire is also the daddy word

234
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 1: of risible, which is confusing. I wish it was used

235
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 1: more often.

236
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know about riseable. By the way, is

237
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,840
Speaker 3: daddy math maybe the calculation you determine how many bastard

238
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 3: children you have out in the world. There, we're perhaps

239
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,120
Speaker 3: like a you know, a despot, historical despot, Djengus or

240
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 3: Nick Canny. Yeah.

241
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,120
Speaker 1: So for centuries, like we're saying, ridiculous was a hard

242
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:41,160
Speaker 1: and righteous dis mockery, as you noted earlier, fighting words.

243
00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,640
Speaker 1: Throughout the sixteen hundreds, we see a lot of fiction

244
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 1: and nonfiction writers, including Shakespeare, using ridiculous in that sense.

245
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:56,319
Speaker 1: Sometimes they spell it different ways, mainly because everybody at

246
00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,560
Speaker 1: this point was still trying to figure out how stuff

247
00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: would be spelled. Literacy was a pretty rare skill.

248
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:05,000
Speaker 3: Set, for sure. No, it was a big deal, and

249
00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 3: they were kind of spitballing a little bit, you see,

250
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:10,040
Speaker 3: before they land on the one that kind of sticks.

251
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 3: And oftentimes that is determined by someone very powerful who

252
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 3: perhaps you know, codifies the printing of a particular work,

253
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,840
Speaker 3: and then then that begins to spread because the more

254
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 3: consistency you have, the more people pick up on and

255
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,120
Speaker 3: then the more it's passed around and reprinted, et cetera,

256
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 3: one hundred percent.

257
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 1: And this is where we arrive at the eighteenth century. Ridiculous,

258
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 1: however you spell it, becomes a little bit less of

259
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,120
Speaker 1: a mocking fighting word. It's starting to evolve to mean

260
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:52,320
Speaker 1: something that is more funny or haha, not necessarily.

261
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:52,520
Speaker 3: In a mean way.

262
00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,600
Speaker 1: It's absurd, but it's amusing, it's comical.

263
00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,440
Speaker 3: I guess what we're talking about here too, I mean,

264
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 3: is the evolution of language where know the word you

265
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 3: could absolutely still use it in any of these ways,

266
00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:08,880
Speaker 3: but it begins to really depend on like the emphasis

267
00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 3: you put on it when you speak it, the context

268
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,160
Speaker 3: around it, you know, what your attitude is towards the word.

269
00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,480
Speaker 3: So we're kind of we're not even necessarily talking about

270
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 3: the purely the pure evolution of a word. It's just

271
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,920
Speaker 3: sort of like it picks up different umamis along.

272
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,200
Speaker 1: The way, right, Yeah, well said, well, because what we're

273
00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,920
Speaker 1: talking about is language as technology, and so we're really

274
00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 1: talking about the way society evolves in their usage of

275
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,560
Speaker 1: a thing. Right, and this is this new this like

276
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 1: coke two of ridiculous, is the uh is the more

277
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 1: friendly version of the word, because it's still traced back

278
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 1: to uh ridicularious meaning concerned with jokes, which we definitely

279
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,080
Speaker 1: are on this show.

280
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,560
Speaker 3: Was it thirty Rock where there was like a fictional

281
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:02,560
Speaker 3: rapper named Ridiculous who was sort of like like ludicrous

282
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 3: sort of stand in satire and parody.

283
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,080
Speaker 1: You know, we were talking off air with Max. I've

284
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 1: been rewatching thirty Rock, which is just phenomenal writing. I

285
00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,560
Speaker 1: would have to finish watching the run of the show.

286
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:19,800
Speaker 1: But I'm sure you're right, if not in thirty Rock,

287
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,320
Speaker 1: in some show, that joke's just too.

288
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,560
Speaker 3: Good, it's too good. Yeah, and I having our I don't.

289
00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,480
Speaker 3: I couldn't possibly know how to spell it ridiculous. It's

290
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,440
Speaker 3: I'm spelling it correctly and nothing is coming up. But

291
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:37,680
Speaker 3: it's like comedy joke rapper, ludicris Perry, parody. Maybe yeah,

292
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 3: parody would be good. It doesn't matter. It'll come to

293
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,479
Speaker 3: me eventually when I don't care. But I'm almost positive

294
00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 3: that it was thirty Rocks.

295
00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,720
Speaker 1: And we obviously are huge fans of thirty Rock. We

296
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 1: also you know what I love about the point you

297
00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:58,440
Speaker 1: earlier made is we're also talking now about ridiculous acquiring

298
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,600
Speaker 1: informal meanings like one thing that can happen if you

299
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:09,119
Speaker 1: are dating, especially here in Atlanta. I remember a friend

300
00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,760
Speaker 1: of mine got kind of mythed when he made a

301
00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,800
Speaker 1: joke and it landed, and the lady was interested in went, oh,

302
00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:20,359
Speaker 1: you're stupid, but she meant that he was funny. She

303
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,000
Speaker 1: is stupid funny, right exactly. So, when we see the

304
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,959
Speaker 1: same thing happening with slang, and the word ridiculous and

305
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:34,880
Speaker 1: all living languages constantly creates slang, let's go to the

306
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,679
Speaker 1: Dictionary of Archaic and Provincial Words by how did I

307
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 1: not know about miss Franzil today. That's incredible, and this exists.

308
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 1: It's multiple editions to man. This is written by James

309
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: Orchard halliwell I was first published in eighteen forty six,

310
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,320
Speaker 1: but we are using the eighteen fifty two version because

311
00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 1: per our accounting department, we are not quote made of money.

312
00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 3: That's true. It's true. And this is what he had

313
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,760
Speaker 3: to say on the subject of the word ridiculous. This

314
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 3: is used in a very different sense in some counties

315
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 3: from its original meaning. Something very indecent and improper is

316
00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,880
Speaker 3: understood by it as any violent attack upon a woman's

317
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:21,440
Speaker 3: chastity is called wow, very ridiculous behavior. A very disorderly

318
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 3: and ill conducted house is also called a ridiculous one.

319
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,840
Speaker 3: So in this situation, it's really starting to get like

320
00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,200
Speaker 3: honed in, almost on the level of like a legal designation.

321
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,880
Speaker 3: Right it's really like hard in terms of its its

322
00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:39,920
Speaker 3: judgment call.

323
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 1: Especially because to us right now, ridiculous means funny, interesting

324
00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:50,760
Speaker 1: and cool, silly goofy, you silly goose. But right right now,

325
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,680
Speaker 1: I think we'd all be more insulted if someone came

326
00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:57,880
Speaker 1: to our homes and called them ill conducted. I don't

327
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 1: know why that would steing me more if someone said.

328
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 3: I would be impressed if they whipped out that Turner phrase,

329
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 3: And you're right, it probably would cut me to my

330
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:06,920
Speaker 3: very core.

331
00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like they thought about it, right, So

332
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: we also see to your point, more than a little

333
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 1: discrimination comes into play with this slang as well. In

334
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:22,639
Speaker 1: the twentieth century, in the United States, ridiculous was described

335
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:26,760
Speaker 1: as a synonym for outrageous, and the people who described

336
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,480
Speaker 1: it as such always wanted to point out this is

337
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:34,960
Speaker 1: primarily used in Gullah speech and quote among poor whites

338
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: in Ozarks.

339
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,639
Speaker 3: Yeikes. Yeah, man, It's another one of the things moment

340
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 3: where you realize that any form of a word that

341
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,679
Speaker 3: describes something being stupid or ill conceived or outrageous, it

342
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,560
Speaker 3: has a basis in othering. It has a basis and

343
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 3: this is something that is different than me that freaks

344
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,160
Speaker 3: me out, you know, And it's a way of demonizing

345
00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 3: a perceived other and the way they talk, the way

346
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:08,239
Speaker 3: they dress. It's still used today, you know, it's I mean,

347
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,800
Speaker 3: it really all just boils down to this idea of

348
00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:15,160
Speaker 3: something being worthy of ridicule. What what worst designation could

349
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 3: you slap on something than being worthy of jeers and

350
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,240
Speaker 3: insults and derision.

351
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,840
Speaker 1: Agreed fully, and any word can be weaponized, at least

352
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 1: in English. For instance, think of innocuous words like urban

353
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:35,560
Speaker 1: and think about how keeevily that was deployed, especially in

354
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 1: the advent of the War on drugs, or dog.

355
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 3: Whistles for racist not not. Let's not get too far

356
00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600
Speaker 3: into this, but then you've got words like that that

357
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,080
Speaker 3: you know, initially are sort of benign, and they start

358
00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 3: referring to certain demographics in certain areas. We even see

359
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: it in the categorization of like music, you know, and

360
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 3: that's an official term used in like radio circles and charts, right,

361
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,119
Speaker 3: like music charts, those examples. Where is that taking the

362
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 3: word back or is that another example of an establishment

363
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 3: referring to something with a little bit of a side eye?

364
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is where we get to the serious

365
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: side of ridiculousness. We've established our origin story and we've

366
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,840
Speaker 1: got some other words that sort of fill out the

367
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: background of our painting. We've walked through what we hope

368
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 1: is some tasty etymology for our fellow logophiles word nerds,

369
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 1: oh my god. But before not not fans of the not,

370
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: fans of logs, not fans of logs. That's a different

371
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,400
Speaker 1: read election. But before we light out for the old

372
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 1: podcast territories, we do want to establish some serious value

373
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: of ridiculousness as a concept in the ancient past and

374
00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,680
Speaker 1: in the modern day. Here we have a second Tommy

375
00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: entering the stage. Please, folks, holt your accolades and laws.

376
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 1: This is a tom you have probably heard of none

377
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 1: other than Thomas Hobbes.

378
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 3: Think that the imaginary Tiger and Calvin and Hobbes is

379
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 3: named after Thomas Hobbs. It's spelled the same That just

380
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: occourats me seeing it on paper.

381
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: First off, I have chosen to believe he is very

382
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 1: much a real type.

383
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,359
Speaker 3: Oh fair enough, excuse me the spoiler.

384
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: But I also I believe you are absolutely correct there,

385
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: especially when you see written out right. The legendary English

386
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: philosopher Thomas Hobbes is probably to most of us best

387
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,439
Speaker 1: known for an absolute banger he wrote in sixteen fifty

388
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 1: one called Leviathan. He first kicks the idea of what

389
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 1: we call social contract theory.

390
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,400
Speaker 3: So it's a nice idea. Yeah, it's a nice idea.

391
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 3: I mean, isn't the social sorry not a d re

392
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: but is given what's going on in the world. Now,

393
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,679
Speaker 3: isn't the social contract kind of reliant on people just

394
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 3: agreeing to follow certain rules and like, in order for

395
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,359
Speaker 3: the privilege of living in society, you have to kind

396
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,199
Speaker 3: of give up a little bit of into individuality in

397
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,320
Speaker 3: favor of, like, you know, getting along. We all sort

398
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 3: of abide by these rules that are mutually agreed upon

399
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:07,000
Speaker 3: and beneficial.

400
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you nailed it, man. Social contract theory is the

401
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 1: idea that you, as an individual human, either explicitly or

402
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: simply by existing in society, you have agreed to abide

403
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: by rules of that society, to have certain responsibilities in

404
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:33,719
Speaker 1: exchange for protection and maintenance of social order. We know

405
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: that this goes in a thousand directions, but the idea

406
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: at base is that it takes everyone to make a

407
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: society work. We're not a philosophy podcast yet, but we

408
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,200
Speaker 1: do have to give you one more fun fact about

409
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: Tommy h He spent a lot of time ruminating over

410
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: the concept of humor, and to him, the nature of

411
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,919
Speaker 1: ridiculousness and absurd is central to the theory of Beaty.

412
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 1: Here Max, what makes funny? So encountering the ridiculous triggers laughter, shock, parody, satire.

413
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: Also Hobbes, by the way, super duper hater.

414
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, he had some He had some hot takes,

415
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 3: that's for sure. Definitely, Uh thought very highly of himself. Oh, okay,

416
00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 3: we'll do We'll do one quote from Leviathan. I think

417
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 3: we must. It'll give you a good sense of this

418
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: guy's Yeah, penchant for for Hobbs. Yeah maybe, all right.

419
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: So true, for such is the nature of man that,

420
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: howsoever they may acknowledge many others to be more witty,

421
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: or more eloquent, or more learned, yet they will hardly

422
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: believe there be many. So wise it's themselves, for they

423
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: see their own wit at hand and other men's at

424
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: a distance.

425
00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, he's not wrong. I'm not even really trying

426
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: to be a hater of the hater. I think he

427
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 3: was just he's pretty dialed in. That's not incorrect. It's

428
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 3: this idea that everyone's sort of the main character in

429
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: their own story, right, and that everyone else sort of

430
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 3: exists as side players, and that at the end of

431
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,760
Speaker 3: the day, you're more concerned with your own bit and

432
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 3: coming across a certain way than you are and listening

433
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 3: to what other people have to say or acknowledging their existency.

434
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 3: Excellent unpacking there.

435
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see your own you marvel at your own

436
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 1: intelligence or your own winds, and other people they're at

437
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 1: an arms.

438
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,919
Speaker 3: Linked at best. Someone else also said, hell as other people.

439
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 3: So those could you know? Pair those together and you

440
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 3: got yourself a full on philosophy of life.

441
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Tom puts some stank on that one. Also,

442
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: he was a proponent of absolute monarchy, and his arguments

443
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,159
Speaker 1: for that are ridiculous.

444
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: So Tom, we hope you were joking.

445
00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't even bring it back to ridiculous though, Well,

446
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: later on, much much much later on, after the rise

447
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 1: of the science we call psychology, it turns out scientists

448
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 1: would verify Hobbes's pitch about ridiculous, right.

449
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: I mean, he's clearly lampooning most of society and considers

450
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 3: humans to be inherently quite ridiculous. This is a very

451
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 3: important word in helping to draw attention to social hierarchies

452
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 3: and attitudes of the time. By this, we mean the

453
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 3: absurd is able to kind of subvert in a way.

454
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 3: He was also I don't know, it's hard to how

455
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 3: would you describe his work? I mean it's a treatise, right,

456
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: He's basically telling he's calling attention to the absurdities of

457
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 3: society in an effort to perhaps teach people how to

458
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 3: live better. Right, there could be a better way. But

459
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 3: it also is satirical in a way. It's an interesting

460
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,959
Speaker 3: kind of cross section there. Yeah.

461
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's kind of a Josh Johnson to it, or

462
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 1: a George Carlin esque thing. You know, these are great

463
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: or Bill Hicks, these are great orators who will who

464
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: understand the power of laughter along the way. And this

465
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,440
Speaker 1: is an old idea. It's I love that you're talking

466
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: about absurdism, subverting social norms. That's why a jester can

467
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: talk trash so loudly at the king and say all

468
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: these things. An ordinary peasant would be tortured for muttering

469
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: under their breath.

470
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 3: The idea of a roast, You know, people love a

471
00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: roast as long as it's there, kind of in control,

472
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: and it is all sort of like it in the

473
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 3: service of this kind of holding court kind of situation. Right.

474
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: I genuinely enjoy a lot of roast, except for the

475
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: one of Chevy Chase that was I don't think they

476
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 1: were being funny.

477
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,439
Speaker 3: I know they was being mean. Isn't that guy a

478
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 3: real Dick, though I've heard like not great things about it.

479
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,159
Speaker 3: I didn't see the roast though, but I imagine there

480
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 3: was a lot of people just unloading on a guy

481
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 3: who maybe deserved it a little more than the average

482
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 3: roast roasty.

483
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, apparently very difficult to work with, and we hope

484
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: that we're easy to work.

485
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: With so that we don't pick up with chevies. Yeah.

486
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 1: So, the thing about stuff being ridiculous or absurd is

487
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: that it reframes the way you perceive a given experience

488
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: in small yet measurable ways. It also reframes every other

489
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 1: thing you encountered before or after. You look at the

490
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: world differently, you pay more attention, and we see this

491
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: everywhere politics, fiction, personal relationships, advertising. Look, we have background

492
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: in live performance, and as any live performer can tell you,

493
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: the number one easiest emotional reaction to get from an

494
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: audience is laughter.

495
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 3: Right, would you agree with that? I think so. It's

496
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: definitely easier than eliciting a gasp, unless you're just going

497
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: for shock value. But it's also the I think it's

498
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 3: the easiest and most pleasant reaction that an audience might

499
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 3: want to have elicited from them. You know what I mean?

500
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 3: People have to laugh. It's a psychologically cleansing sort of experience.

501
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, especially when you're laughing together, when you're not asking

502
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: for much, right, just the shared acknowledgement that this thing

503
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 1: is funny or ridiculous.

504
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: Dude, speaking of ridiculous and laughter, have you seen the

505
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,520
Speaker 3: New Naked Gun movie yet? Not yet. No, I've been

506
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 3: deep in research land. It is a laugh a second.

507
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 3: It's just so densely packed and that we'll we'll pull

508
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 3: those out of you. So I highly recommend him looking

509
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 3: for a cathartic experience in that respect, go check out

510
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: the New Naked Gun Movie. I'm so excited. I'm so

511
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:41,239
Speaker 3: excited to see it.

512
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: And you know, I've got a little bit of limited

513
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 1: mobility right now, but as soon as i'm as soon

514
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: as I'm back on my proper land lover's status, dude,

515
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm getting to the movie theater to check it out.

516
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 1: And we're huge fans of the earlier Naked Gun stuff

517
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: as well, although to be clear, not all of it

518
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: aged well. Which happens a comedy, Yeah, I mean O

519
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: Jay Simpson's in the first two. I think it's really funny,

520
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: though he's very I gotta give it to guy's very funny,

521
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 1: but he definitely murdered those people. Yeah, once you get

522
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: someone to chuckle with you, psychologically you built this foundational bond,

523
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 1: even if it's only for a limited amount of time.

524
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: And from that bond you could say laughters like a

525
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: mental passwords like hacking a computer. You can do a

526
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: lot of other stuff. Not all of that stuff is

527
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: necessarily above board. And that takes us back to advertising.

528
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 1: Ooh man, advertising and laughter for sure.

529
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, and again, I mean we're starting to see the

530
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 3: pivot into ridiculous of the idea of worthy of ridicules

531
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 3: starting to feel more like positive laughter, something that's done

532
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 3: to illicit laughter, like the gesture you're talking about, Ben,

533
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 3: rather than someone that is a buffoon worthy of mockery

534
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: and contempt.

535
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,719
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like the old stand up rule punching up

536
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: versus punching down.

537
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 3: Right. Really yeah, Advertising, though, is a great transition, Ben,

538
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 3: where we start to see the kind of weaponizing of

539
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 3: some of this thinking. It is, of course a particularly

540
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 3: manipulative branch of psychology unto itself, leveraging a lot of conditioning,

541
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 3: but you know, behavioral cognitive effects in order to elicit

542
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 3: a certain reaction to help encode memories, you know, into

543
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 3: the viewer and to help impart a positive impression of

544
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 3: a particular brand, product or concepts. Yeah, think about it.

545
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: Your favorite commercials, especially if you're from the West, are

546
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: properly comedic. They likely incorporate a buzz term, a jingle

547
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 1: or both. And the serious commercials we remember, like the

548
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: famous PSAs let's play what here is? Here is an

549
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: example of a serious PSA, which we're counting as a

550
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:01,959
Speaker 1: commercial for this purpose. You may all recognize this one, folks.

551
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: Is there anyone out there who still isn't clear about

552
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 4: what doing drugs does? Okay, last time, this is your brain,

553
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 4: This is drugs. This is your brain on.

554
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 3: Drugs, eggs. Oh no, sorry, that was the wrong message.

555
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: It was supposed to be. Okay, brain drugs will crack

556
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 3: open my brains and fry them in a pan, right, right?

557
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 3: And you remember this one, right of course? Yes, And

558
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,479
Speaker 3: there is some absurdity to it. It is also just

559
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 3: sort of like very heavy handed metaphor. I guess as well.

560
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, yeah, you nailed it, because despite the

561
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: initial intent of the people who made that or made

562
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 1: those copyright PSAs, like you wouldn't download a car I

563
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: would if I could, right exactly in this academy get

564
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: back to us. But they meant these things to be

565
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,240
Speaker 1: serious and to stay with you. However, a lot of

566
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: the audience only remembers them because we find them ironic

567
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 1: and funny. We laugh when we recall them because we

568
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: find them accidentally ridiculous. It kind of reminds me of

569
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: you know, not too long ago. I think, just just

570
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: like a few days ago, you and I literally saying

571
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: the Mele mixed jingle on our sister show stuff.

572
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 3: They don't want you to know. Somehow he didn't get

573
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: soon knock on wood. It is funny though, right, I

574
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 3: mean the way those little things like they eat more

575
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 3: chicken campaign is another good example with chick files of

576
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: not only is it absurd this idea that an anthropomorphic

577
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 3: cow is trying to deflect us from eating its flesh

578
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: and the flesh of its breath in favor of instead

579
00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 3: eating it's these other animals that presumably the cows have

580
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: some sort of vendetto with it's implied, but not only that,

581
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 3: it incorporates the concept of disfluency into the ad campaigns,

582
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 3: where it's the text that's all splattery and misspelled words,

583
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 3: and that encodes itself onto your brain even more so.

584
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,640
Speaker 3: It's like piggybacking on that absurdity with these elaborate billboards,

585
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 3: with these like three dimensional cow sculptures, and then the

586
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 3: fact that when you're driving past it you see these

587
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 3: kind of misspelled words, which forces you to think a

588
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: little deeper.

589
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, you're paying more attention because you're replying cognitively

590
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,280
Speaker 1: to absurdity. The concept of ridiculous gets in our heads.

591
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: The meal Mixed jingle solidified the memory, and so even

592
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: if we didn't each personally run out to buy meal

593
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 1: mix right after recording, we now have a shared fond

594
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,759
Speaker 1: memory of It's It's a brilliant idea again, it's ridiculous.

595
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: English is a phenomenally fastating language chock full of words

596
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: that are themselves ridiculous, by which I guess we would mean

597
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: cartoonishly specific, oddly, self contradictory, or even just the kind

598
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: of word where you look back on it later and think.

599
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 3: Well, why would someone make that? What?

600
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 1: What on earth happened in society that we need a

601
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: whole word defining this?

602
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 3: You know what I mean? Yeah? I don't, I mean,

603
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: I don't know it's a good question, then, so.

604
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: We we can play a game for the very end

605
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: of this. I know, I dug up a book that

606
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: I know you will love if you haven't read it already.

607
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: It's we love specific reference works. This is depraved and

608
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: insulting English.

609
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 3: God. Yes, what was the other reference book or the

610
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: old tone that you pulled up a source?

611
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is the diction words archaic and

612
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: provincial words.

613
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: It does seem like a good pairing. I'm down, sign

614
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 3: me up. All right, how about this? Well, we're going

615
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 3: to do the live. We don't know if it will

616
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: work out. So Paul G.

617
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: Stomacks in advance. No, I'm going to flip through this

618
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 1: book and you say when okay? All right, going when okay?

619
00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:12,879
Speaker 4: Uh?

620
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: And then I'm gonna run my finger up and down

621
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: the page. You say, when okay, Rick Rubin, when okay?

622
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 1: Cock o Kalia the state of being.

623
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 3: Guess Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah C A c O c

624
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 3: A L l I A C A c O. Initially,

625
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 3: my mind is is jumping to the word cow, and

626
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: this is like if it's a calia. I don't know

627
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,839
Speaker 3: what that suffix is, but it sounds maybe a little

628
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 3: bit like Aphelia or this is not a phobia. You're

629
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 3: into something. You're into whatever Coco represents. That's my guess,

630
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 3: and I think it might be cow Is. Well, this

631
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 3: was a very unfair one.

632
00:36:57,360 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: I I don't think either of us would have would

633
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: have guessed this one. The definition is the state of

634
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,080
Speaker 1: being ugly but sexy. What that? Hell?

635
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my god, I'm writing this down, CaCO Kalia,

636
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,280
Speaker 3: that is my I'm gonna use that as my mantra

637
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: from now on. You're not You're the opposite of ugly.

638
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 3: You have some devil you no, no, but that's cool.

639
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 3: So it's like, you know, uh, what's his name, the

640
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 3: horrible painter who also acts Adrian Brody. What a weird

641
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,000
Speaker 3: way to describe that. He's a funny looking dude there.

642
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 3: I think this term is very interesting. There are a

643
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 3: lot of what you might call striking individuals who you

644
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 3: could argue you are ugly but sexy. I think it's

645
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: not a disc man.

646
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm into it. I think uh, I think I think

647
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: I agree with it. Except for you and de Niro.

648
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to go to the bat for you guys.

649
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 3: Craggy looking dudes, weathered, he looks weathered because.

650
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: Of his age. We are your ever faithful ugly at

651
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: Sexy Correspondence. We hope you enjoyed this episode. Thank you

652
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,799
Speaker 1: so much as always for tuning in. Thanks to our

653
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 1: super producer mister Max Williams as well as Alex Williams

654
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 1: who composed this track.

655
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 3: Huge thanks to Chris Frossiotis and need to Jeffcoats here

656
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: in Spirit, Jonathan Stricklan the quist Or, A J. Bahamas

657
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 3: Jacobs the Puzzler.

658
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: Big big thanks of course to doctor Rachel Big Spinach Lance,

659
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:31,280
Speaker 1: Big thanks to East Jeffcoat Christopher Hasiotis here in Spirit,

660
00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: and big thanks to Peter Novobotsky and Amanhea who wrote

661
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,399
Speaker 1: Deprived and Insulting English Kill.

662
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. We'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts

663
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 3: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

664
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 3: you listen to your favorite shows