1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Let's dig in a little bit more with former FED 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Vice chair Richard Clarita. He is now Global Economic Advisor 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: over at Pimco, and rich really great to get some 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: timey you, thanks so much for joining us. What was 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: your take on Jay Powell at Centro? Was he a 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: little bit more hawkish than maybe the market had anticipated? 7 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: Just a touch although market pricing. First of all, good 8 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 2: to do your show, Matt, been a while. Maybe just 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 2: a touch, although market pricing really did not move that much. 10 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 3: It was really an excellent panel. 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 2: You know, I've seen a number of these over the 12 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: years in different formats, but to get the big four 13 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 2: all in the same stage with a new appearance by 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: Uada Bank of Japan who just joined, I thought it 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 2: was a good, good session. Maybe Jay skewed a little 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 2: bit more hawkish than he did at the press conference, 17 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 2: but I don't think a big mover of markets today. 18 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: Markets still don't buy that the Fed is going to 19 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 1: hike rates two more times, as the dot plot shows, 20 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: And even though we've pushed out the cuts from this 21 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,399 Speaker 1: year in work on the Bloomberg terminal, we still see 22 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: cuts priced in twenty four into twenty five. Even though 23 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: Powell said at the last FED meeting it was going 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: to be years before we saw cuts. Why does he 25 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: want to push that narrative and why doesn't the market 26 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: buy it? 27 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 3: Well? 28 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 2: I think at the last press conference man he indicated 29 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: it maybe several years before they project inflation getting down 30 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: all the way to two percent. But the SEP projections 31 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 2: themselves actually do have rate cuts in for next year. 32 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: The feds rationale is that if they succeed and inflation 33 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: starts to fall, they can cut rates basically to keep 34 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: real rates unchanged. And so I do think their baseline 35 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 2: probably does have some cuts, does have cuts for next year, 36 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: certainly in the baseline. The question is markets I think 37 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: have priced in more than the Fed seas right now. 38 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 4: And in looking through the headlines of what we heard 39 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 4: from Pale this morning, this caught my eye sort of 40 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 4: on this topic, is that Palse's us getting two percent 41 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 4: core inflation by twenty twenty five. And to your point 42 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 4: that if you look at the dot plot, you actually 43 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 4: see some cuts penciled in next year. Is there a 44 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 4: situation where Okay, we're not at two percent yet, but 45 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 4: the Fed see something and is willing to cut even 46 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 4: though we're not back to target. 47 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 2: Oh yes, in fact, that's that's really our baseline view 48 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 2: at PEMCO. It's what we sometimes call the two points 49 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,399 Speaker 2: something a destination. That is, we could see them under 50 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: their outlook. We could see inflation next year falling below 51 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: three that's obviously is not two. But in that context 52 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 2: inflation will have fallen substantially, and we do think the 53 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 2: FED can ratchet down and would ratchet down rates in 54 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: those circumstances, and so so, yes, obviously you know the 55 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: FED will be like the ECB and other central banks 56 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: will be especially data dependent. But you know, we could 57 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 2: see cuts next year even if inflation remains aims somewhat 58 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: above two percent. 59 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 4: Well, on the topic of data dependency. On June fifteenth, 60 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,720 Speaker 4: after the FED meeting, on Bloomberg Television, I believe it 61 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 4: was you made the point that I really think that 62 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 4: for the first time in a long time that the 63 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,400 Speaker 4: FED is data dependent. Does that imply that up until 64 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 4: this point, perhaps they hadn't been. What has changed that 65 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 4: now they are definitely data dependent? 66 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: Well quite frankly, the FED really risk falling behind the 67 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: curve last year. You know, they only began to hike 68 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 2: rates at the March of twenty twenty two meeting and 69 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: then under Jay's Palace leadership, and I think he showed 70 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: excellent leadership. He unified the committee to a very very 71 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: aggressive steep lift off path, and I actually thought, really 72 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: for most of last year, the focus was on getting 73 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: rates into restrictive territory, and they were going to do 74 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 2: that for a pretty wide range of data. I think 75 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: they now agree and I would we would agree that 76 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 2: rates are in restrictive territory, they have to. 77 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 3: Keep them there for a while. 78 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: And I really do think for the first time in 79 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: this cycle, there is some data dependence. You know, for example, 80 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 2: they did skip or pause at the last meeting, and 81 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 2: the chair did not want to rule out that they 82 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 2: could pause at future meetings, but he also didn want 83 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 2: to rule out they could go at the next two meetings. 84 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 2: So more optionality now for the PALFED than I think 85 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:24,799 Speaker 2: that we've seen in some time. 86 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: I wonder what you think about the impending recession. I mean, 87 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: obviously there's going to be a recession at some point. 88 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: The question is when, on the one hand, we're seeing 89 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: strong economic surprises to the upside. If you look at 90 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Economic Surprise Indicator, it's really spiked over the 91 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 1: past few weeks, and on the other hand, we're seeing 92 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 1: things like delinquencies on car loans starting to ratchet higher, 93 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 1: right savings and bank balances starting to come down. What's 94 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: your take on a recession and when we're going to 95 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: get it? 96 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 3: I think you phrased the question. 97 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 2: Well, Matt, there will at some point be a recession. 98 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 2: We've not banished the business cycle. Economists are not good 99 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 2: at a lot of things, and one of things we're 100 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 2: not good at is is forecasting recessions. If we do 101 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: get a recession, say later this year or early next year, 102 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 2: it'll probably be one of the most anticipated or forecasted 103 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 2: recessions in my professional career. Our baseline view is, you know, 104 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: monetary policy does operate with a lag. We've seen a 105 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 2: tightening and lending standards by banks. The leading indicators are 106 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: a negative territory. The curve is inverted, so all the 107 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 2: classic signals are flashing a recession either later this year 108 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 2: or next year. The labor market traditionally is a lagging indicator. 109 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: It's certainly lagging in this cycle. It would be great 110 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: if we could get a soft or softish landing. So 111 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: we're not putting a zero probability on that, but we 112 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: do think that all together that a recession is more 113 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: likely than not. 114 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 4: I want to pivot here. I wasn't expecting to ask 115 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 4: you about artificial intelligence, but the FED brought it up. 116 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 4: Pal brought it up himself. Some headlines there. Pale said 117 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,720 Speaker 4: that the FED is trying to get smart about artificial intelligence, 118 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,159 Speaker 4: and that the FED is spending a lot of time 119 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: on AI. But it's too early for a conclusion. And 120 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 4: I'd love to get your perspective on how a central 121 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 4: bank goes about sort of factoring in technology like artificial 122 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 4: intelligence into their economic models. How do you even go 123 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 4: about that. 124 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 3: It's a great question. 125 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: And actually in our recently completed PIMCO forum, we devoted 126 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 2: some time what we call the aftershock economy, and one 127 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: of the potential disruptors over the next five years is 128 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: the rapid adoption of AI. And it's complex for the 129 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 2: following reason. If you talk to experts, and I wouldn't 130 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: pretend to be one, but we do talk to experts, 131 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: you could see AI having a big impact on inflation. 132 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 3: It could be inflationary. 133 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 2: You could also see AI having a big impact on growth. 134 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: Faster growth tends to push up interest rates. 135 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 2: So even if AI becomes a big deal, it's not 136 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: at all clear whether or not the net effect would 137 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 2: be to push up or push down you know, neutral 138 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: policy rates. So I think the FED is to be 139 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: commended by trying to get ahead of this. You know, 140 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 2: I haven't had related in contact with my former colleagues, 141 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,679 Speaker 2: but I would imagine that they're looking at both sides 142 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: of the AI coin, if you will, the potential for 143 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: disinflation in terms of labor cost reduction but faster growth, 144 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: and I think they'll probably be looking at both those 145 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 2: dimensions in. 146 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: Terms of inflation. Rich what do you see as the 147 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 1: main drivers right now? We still see a very sticky 148 00:07:43,960 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: core around five percent. Is that because we still have, 149 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, supply constraints or is it the demand side 150 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: that's the problem. 151 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 3: Excellent. 152 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: I think the supply constraints, which were a big deal 153 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 2: certainly in my last year's Vice Chared twenty twenty one 154 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: and last year, I do think the supply story is 155 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 2: in the rear view mirror. I quite frankly there's more 156 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 2: stickiness and inertia and inflation than I would hope or 157 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 2: have expected a couple of years ago. I do think, however, 158 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: that we are going to get some good news on 159 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: core inflation, because the way in which the statistical statistical 160 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: agencies calculate inflation, it's very much a lagged rear view 161 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 2: mirror approach. On housing and rental inflation, more high frequency 162 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 2: measures Zillow and the like have turned and that's a 163 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: big part of the price indexes. I think goods disinflation 164 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 2: may turn into goods deflation because of better supply conditions, 165 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 2: and so I do think that we will begin to 166 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: get some better. 167 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 3: News on inflation. 168 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:55,079 Speaker 2: But the Fed does have a ways to go, and 169 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,120 Speaker 2: I think the chair has mentioned that underlying inflation, so 170 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: core other measures are probably at least a point maybe 171 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: a point and a half higher than they want them 172 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: to be, which is why they're trying to engineer the 173 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: slowdown in growth. But I do think that the supplies 174 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 2: to your question, specifically, Matt, the supply drivers of inflation, 175 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 2: I think are no longer really a factor. 176 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 4: Well to the idea that okay, inflation is coming down, 177 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 4: maybe it's been a little bit stickier than expected. Maybe 178 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 4: we don't get back to target for about two years. Here, 179 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 4: should the conversation be less around how many more rate 180 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 4: hikes we need versus how long should the FED be 181 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 4: on pause? 182 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 2: And I think that's the way they're thinking about it, 183 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: both from the chairs comments today and certainly from speeches 184 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 2: and commentary from other FED officials. For example, Dallas FED 185 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: President Louri Logan recently has indicated that that's exactly where 186 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: I think the center of gravity now is on the committee, 187 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: which is, they recognize they've done a lot. They also 188 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: recogniz eyes that monetary policy operates with a lag, and 189 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: so it does make sense, I think, for them to slow. 190 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 3: Down the pace. 191 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 2: But then the bargain is to convince markets that once 192 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: they get to that restrictive level, wherever that is, one 193 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 2: or two more hikes, they definitely plan to keep rates 194 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: there until they actually see demonstrable progress on underlying inflation. 195 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 2: So I do think that the discussion becomes less about 196 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 2: how many more hikes and more about how long they'll 197 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 2: keep the policy rate in restrictive territory. 198 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: Rich, let me just finally ask a market's question, where 199 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: you want to be on the curve right now. Over 200 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 1: the past few weeks, we've seen the ten year kind 201 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: of holding in a three seventy to three eighty range, 202 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 1: while the two years gone from four twenty to four eighty, 203 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:50,960 Speaker 1: you think it's time to start moving out on the 204 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 1: curve or what do you think And what's the view 205 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 1: of Pimco. 206 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 2: Well, well, broadly really since last fall in terms of duration, 207 00:10:57,880 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: so say at the ten year yield on the ten 208 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 2: we've really thought of it as fluctuating in a range. 209 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 2: You know, we got up to four and a quarter 210 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 2: maybe north of that, and we've been down all the 211 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 2: way down to three thirty three forty, So we're right 212 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 2: in the middle of that range, which means we don't 213 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 2: think we have a particularly strong view either way. We 214 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 2: do think now that market pricing is broadly is broadly fair. 215 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 2: You know, the front end has moved around a lot. 216 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,199 Speaker 2: If you look at a chart, the volatility in the 217 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 2: two year yield in the last twelve or fifteen months 218 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: is really eye popping, but a lot of that reflected 219 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 2: the very very aggressive rate hike cycle last year and 220 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: also some increase volatility that appears. 221 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 3: To be narrowing. 222 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: So right now we're really focused not so much on 223 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 2: making a big bet on direction of rates, but making 224 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 2: sure we have portfolios that are resilient and that offer 225 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: Right now in an environment where, for the first time 226 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: in really a long time, investors can have resilient portfolios 227 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 2: with a nice attract to yield. 228 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: So it's a lot of good opportunities right now. 229 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: Excellent, all right, Really appreciate your time, rich Thanks so 230 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 1: much for joining us. Former FED Vice Chair Richard Clarida 231 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: and Katie Greifeld Bloomberg Cross Assets Reporter and the anchor 232 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: of Real Yield, which you catch Fridays at one pm. 233 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: It's a relevant program. I need to plug right now. 234 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:19,719 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for joining us.