Speaker 1: Getting to talk to different Marines and just seeing for them,
Speaker 1: like when they go to a doctor and doctors like here,
Speaker 1: just take this. This is going to help you that
Speaker 1: if we had all discovered CBD earlier in life, if
Speaker 1: they'd still be around now and they wouldn't be drug addicts,
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have lost all their jobs, they wouldn't be
Speaker 1: in a mental health care facility because they lost it.
Speaker 2: Lava for Good and Stand Together Music present The War
Speaker 2: on Drugs Podcast Season two. This season, we're diving deeper
Speaker 2: into the real stories behind the War on Drugs, it's impact,
Speaker 2: it's failures, and the people offering a better path forward.
Speaker 2: Today on the show, Bellator Women's MMA flyweight World Champion
Speaker 2: and two times UFC finalists, five year Marine Corps veteran,
Speaker 2: Once a Marine, always a Marine, and medicinal CBD education
Speaker 2: and Access advocate Liz car Moosh. All Right, welcome to
Speaker 2: another episode of season two of The War on Drugs.
Speaker 3: Podcast US in two. Yes, this is the season where
Speaker 3: we actually talk to people.
Speaker 2: Man a lot more pr just not just you, me and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we actually going to see them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're in Nashville for this interview. Liz carmuche Yes,
Speaker 2: US marine wants marine always a marine.
Speaker 3: Absolutely mm A fighter, definitely a pain specialist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like because we see what she does in the ring,
Speaker 4: We see what happens in the fight.
Speaker 3: But also she knows how to dish out the pain.
Speaker 4: So she's a pain specialist in giving and receiving. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so if she tells you how to deal with you know,
Speaker 4: a good concussed head, you might want to listen. Yeah,
Speaker 4: she knows a thing or two about this situation. Yeah,
Speaker 4: my pain is joints and self inflicted. I slept wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a tall dude, and like you just you
Speaker 2: take a lot of flights and punch me.
Speaker 3: Oh I am suing you.
Speaker 4: I am not built for that life.
Speaker 2: But yeah, mental well being in particularly like PTSD with
Speaker 2: the Mill Terry community. You know, we talked about in
Speaker 2: our opening episode about how the federal government still you know,
Speaker 2: schedules cannabis at the schedule one and so that kind
Speaker 2: of trickles down on all the other agencies and everyone
Speaker 2: else because they have to be speaking the same fenerty line.
Speaker 2: So that means, you know, the VA, the Veteran Affairs,
Speaker 2: they can't go out and say like yeah, we know
Speaker 2: that this is schedule one, Like our buddies over here
Speaker 2: at the DA are saying that, but like, don't worry
Speaker 2: about it. So their whole thing is they cannot treat
Speaker 2: PTSD with any type of cannis. They cannot tell a
Speaker 2: state physician who can write a prescription that this individual
Speaker 2: has PTSD or something else if the point is for
Speaker 2: them to get a medical card. So that's how screwed
Speaker 2: up the system is. And Liz and I touch and
Speaker 2: you touch on that, you know, through the interview a
Speaker 2: little bit. But I think it's important to know that,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not just a culture thing, Like these
Speaker 2: policies have greater impacts just beyond the criminal justice system,
Speaker 2: because now our health departments are housing. It gets into
Speaker 2: like are you going to get food stamps or not?
Speaker 2: Or a you're gonna get denied because it's in this schedule.
Speaker 2: Are you going to get your SNAPNEF. It's like all
Speaker 2: these types of things trickle down because of this, And
Speaker 2: it's not just because you're in prison. It's because you're
Speaker 2: trying to make ends meet, or you have children, or
Speaker 2: you have chronic pain and you're trying to treat it.
Speaker 2: And so I think that's all the things. And one
Speaker 2: thing I'll just touch on as well. You know, we
Speaker 2: think of CBD is pretty innocuous. I think a lot
Speaker 2: of places, like I live in DC, live in Atlanta,
Speaker 2: like they're in grocery stores or in most places. But
Speaker 2: a lot of places have started to like recriminalize it.
Speaker 2: It kind of was becoming decriminalized in places, so now
Speaker 2: they're trying to roll it back a little bit. And
Speaker 2: so then that's all these hemp products too, That's what
Speaker 2: all these things are. And so again, it's all this
Speaker 2: stuff that hurts these businesses, hurts people. It touches everything,
Speaker 2: and you don't you don't realize until you just talk
Speaker 2: to someone in like their story and you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's because of that or like that x or like
Speaker 2: it's really interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And some of this stuff is down to life
Speaker 4: and death or our veterans. You know, SAT rate is
Speaker 4: high among our veterans, and.
Speaker 2: More people die of suicide thany ever do in combat.
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, right, And that's terrible to make it all
Speaker 4: the way through a conflict and then come and feel
Speaker 4: you know, so isolated, all right, so much pain, are
Speaker 4: so disconnected.
Speaker 2: The toughest battles are still ahead of you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think the system kind of pushes
Speaker 4: people towards the alcohol, which you know is an issue
Speaker 4: with our veterans, or which is people towards the opioids,
Speaker 4: which is, you know, the addictive way to temporarily fix
Speaker 4: the pain.
Speaker 3: But what do you what are you picking up?
Speaker 4: You're losing the pain, but you're picking up an addiction
Speaker 4: that you might not be able to sustain if the
Speaker 4: doctor cuts you off. And now you're looking at black
Speaker 4: marketplaces for opioids that you wouldn't have even been introduced to.
Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is, again, is twenty at least
Speaker 2: twenty nine states categorically say PTSD is something that can
Speaker 2: be helped treated with cannabis and can be prescribed for it.
Speaker 2: And then you look at the VA's website and it
Speaker 2: says under no circumstays should you treat, And it's okay,
Speaker 2: what's going on and where is this? Like can we
Speaker 2: just be honest?
Speaker 3: Like we have.
Speaker 2: Apparently medical professionals on both sides saying completely opposite things
Speaker 2: like what's happening here? And so it's just it's really
Speaker 2: difficult to kind of comprehend that, particularly with this population.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think also Liz is not a person
Speaker 4: that runs from anything. She's not scared of anything, right, right,
Speaker 4: And you might want to run, but she's laying out
Speaker 4: everything that she's seen in her experience. And I think
Speaker 4: that's what we focus on a lot this season. Everybody
Speaker 4: kind of gets to tell you from their perspective. And
Speaker 4: it's not just a perspective of you're in the house
Speaker 4: and you're regurgitating what you've heard from other people. These
Speaker 4: are people's lived experiences. This is what people have been seen,
Speaker 4: what they've been shown, and what they've learned. And if
Speaker 4: we're not gonna come back with the knowledge from what
Speaker 4: you're learning, and what's the point exactly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, just to hear someone at the top of their
Speaker 2: game talk about I have taken everything I have been,
Speaker 2: I have the whole world in front of me. This
Speaker 2: is how I treat my pain. And that's a story
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people are gonna get a
Speaker 2: lot of value at So we can't wait for y'all
Speaker 2: to listen to it and.
Speaker 3: Check it out.
Speaker 4: Hey that me and Greg, our guests and sponsors may
Speaker 4: sound smart, we may even make some good points, but
Speaker 4: at the end of the day.
Speaker 3: We're not medical professional.
Speaker 4: Okay, Please don't get your medical advice from a podcast.
Speaker 4: Anything we say on here does not constitute official medical advice. Relax,
Speaker 4: consult your doctor before you start any new treatment plans.
Speaker 4: Got it all right, We're back right now. We got
Speaker 4: somebody very special guests. Liz Carameves am I saying it right.
Speaker 3: I want to make seeing.
Speaker 4: What you do in the ring. So no, Mma fighter marine,
Speaker 4: former marine man. We're glad always marine stops. Yes, that's
Speaker 4: what's up.
Speaker 2: He was in the Marine, did a couple of tours
Speaker 2: and I was like, we have Carmes coming on. He
Speaker 2: was like, oh hell yeah who rah, Like she's a
Speaker 2: bad Yeah, yeah, really thanks for being on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: thanks it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, You've got so many angles to this thing, and
Speaker 4: you a big advocate for CBD. I think we would
Speaker 4: try to get into that a little later, but yeah,
Speaker 4: just take us through your your journey, like your story.
Speaker 4: If I'm not mistaken. You grew up in Japan, parents
Speaker 4: in the.
Speaker 1: Military kind of yeah, my dad been in the Air Force,
Speaker 1: but my parents split, they got divorced. I was in
Speaker 1: Japan from three and a half till twenty Okay, and
Speaker 1: so lived off base, worked, went to school, did everything
Speaker 1: off base, but a lot of the interactions we had
Speaker 1: was on base, and I got to see all the
Speaker 1: different branches. I got to see who they were as
Speaker 1: they carry themselves as an international representative, right they're representing
Speaker 1: the United States in another country. So I got to
Speaker 1: see how each of the forces carried themselves there. I
Speaker 1: got to see their side when they were with the
Speaker 1: families and who they were within a family environment. I
Speaker 1: got to see them do physical training and see like
Speaker 1: who's the highest standard, and like every time it always
Speaker 1: shone through his always the Marine Corps for me, Like
Speaker 1: whether it's doing something out in town. You know everybody
Speaker 1: parties are twenty one. These are young marines. But you
Speaker 1: see somebody a little too drunk. They pick them up,
Speaker 1: put them in a TAXI, take them home and make
Speaker 1: sure he's safe. And then I watch Air Force like
Speaker 1: fall into the streets cause an accident. See what those
Speaker 1: are the branches.
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, no, no, that's for me.
Speaker 1: And then like physically, like when you think of how
Speaker 1: sharp a Marine Corps uniform looks like to me, it's
Speaker 1: the most badass uniform. It looks so cool and It's
Speaker 1: just I always saw them carrying themselves, and I just
Speaker 1: knew that education school wasn't for me. I love learning,
Speaker 1: but doing in an environment where I have to like
Speaker 1: sit in the classroom be forced to learn certain things,
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm not that kid. Yeah, I'm not that kid.
Speaker 1: And I knew that about me, and I knew financially too.
Speaker 1: For me, the athletics is something that I passion for,
Speaker 1: but financially it just wasn't a place for my family.
Speaker 1: Was something to'd be able to afford to go away
Speaker 1: to college and to be able to pursue that. So
Speaker 1: the military really just fit every mark for me, and
Speaker 1: that brought me to the United States. When I was
Speaker 1: in the Marine Corps, I started to learn about MMA,
Speaker 1: fell in love with that, started just doing workouts and
Speaker 1: challenging myself, trying new things. And then when I got out,
Speaker 1: it was like day one of officially being out of
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps, started training and it's almost fifteen years
Speaker 1: later and I haven't stopped.
Speaker 2: WHOA did you have that moment of getting punched in
Speaker 2: them out the first time? Being like all right, I didn't, man,
Speaker 2: I didn't like that, but I can deal with it.
Speaker 2: Was that in UFC Marines before.
Speaker 1: Probably in the so I definitely got in fights as
Speaker 1: a kid. Yeah, I was just like a tiny little kid,
Speaker 1: and I was just raised to think that everybody has
Speaker 1: a right to play sports and it doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: you're a girl a boy. And my dad's like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're stronger than most kids. You actually need to dialop
Speaker 1: back in, nicer and very protective over my younger sister.
Speaker 1: She was like teeny tiny and frail. And then so
Speaker 1: then once it was a part of the Marine Corps
Speaker 1: and we're like learning how to kind of where to
Speaker 1: direct this and do things like wow, this is really
Speaker 1: fun and really cool, Like I can take a hit
Speaker 1: and I don't nobody wants to take it and always
Speaker 1: sit in there like this feels good. Nobody does that.
Speaker 1: But you know you realize, like, hey, I'm actually a
Speaker 1: lot tougher than other people. I'm not crying about any
Speaker 1: of these experience. I got a peogle stick to the
Speaker 1: face and fell off the barrier and I'm on the
Speaker 1: ground and I'm ready to get back up. And so
Speaker 1: I think I learned there that like physically pushing myself,
Speaker 1: that I could take a lot more than other people,
Speaker 1: and I like challenging myself to the maximum and physically
Speaker 1: in every way possible. And then once I got into
Speaker 1: MMA and I had like my first sparring sessions. I
Speaker 1: think it was my first week ever of training, Like
Speaker 1: it probably started like on a Wednesday. Fridays are usually
Speaker 1: known for every single class being sparring classes. And I
Speaker 1: show up and it's like, hey, you got the heavyweights
Speaker 1: and that's who you're gonna spar I'm like okay, Like
Speaker 1: weight classes wasn't the thing to me and understand. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, you told me to do this, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna do it. And it's like coming out, my nose
Speaker 1: is busted, my hair's ripped out, my shirt's torn, and
Speaker 1: I was like cool. They're like, yeah, we'll see if
Speaker 1: we'll be back on Saturday, and I'm like, well, I'm
Speaker 1: at that point. I'm also man like if you tell
Speaker 1: me like come back tomorrow, I'm gonna do whatever you say. Hey,
Speaker 1: go jump from that car to help you train, like okay.
Speaker 1: So they're like we'll see you tomorrow. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'll see you tomorrow. They come back like most people
Speaker 1: don't actually come back, and I was like you told
Speaker 1: me too, So I'm here, like, if you tell me
Speaker 1: to do eight hours back to back, I'm doing eight hours.
Speaker 1: So I just found out that that's what I love
Speaker 1: doing and more than anything that getting hit is out
Speaker 1: of it. It was just the learning experience of I
Speaker 1: love then Mma. It's not checkers, it's chess, right, There's
Speaker 1: so many pieces on the board that you have to learn.
Speaker 1: You have to understand all of them. And that's the
Speaker 1: same thing. Like you're learning how to do boxing and
Speaker 1: muay Thai and wrestling and judo and all of it,
Speaker 1: and then how to combine it all together. And I
Speaker 1: love that. It's so challenging and engaging and pushing me intellectually,
Speaker 1: mentally and physically that it's just addicting. And I just
Speaker 1: couldn't help but just keep you back from more.
Speaker 2: You've gone through things and you're like where everything is about,
Speaker 2: like physical thing injuries can happen. I know with my
Speaker 2: work doing criminal justice policy, where we see a lot
Speaker 2: of people actually kind of lead down a place of
Speaker 2: pain management, where it goes to a place of potentially
Speaker 2: hope you a addiction or things is after an injury
Speaker 2: where I know when I was working on resencing for
Speaker 2: a gentleman who is in the Marine Corps towards ACL
Speaker 2: or acting, got you know, strung out on pain pills
Speaker 2: and had a fake gun in his pocket, try to
Speaker 2: rob some CBS once they cut them off and edit
Speaker 2: that thing you sayed relatively help you know, pain free.
Speaker 2: But you see that. Can you talk about some of
Speaker 2: the I guess the things that you've seen in your career,
Speaker 2: either to you personally or to other people around that,
Speaker 2: where you've seen the way that our system works, what
Speaker 2: we prohibit and what we allow, and what we see
Speaker 2: as kind of okay and what we don't how that
Speaker 2: actually leads to pretty negative consequences for people, not just
Speaker 2: for their careers, but their lives as well.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I mean when we talk about injuries, right, you're
Speaker 1: already going through combat sports put so much wor and
Speaker 1: tear in your body. It's inevitable even if you come
Speaker 1: out without injury, Like you have less cartilage, you're in
Speaker 1: your strained. You know, you're taking little bone spurs which
Speaker 1: like microfractures, and that just calcifies you know, like there's
Speaker 1: things that are going to happen and you just can't
Speaker 1: get around it. Then you talk about the fatigue, the soreness, right,
Speaker 1: concussions and how that alters everybody, Like I could. I
Speaker 1: can remember one of my training partners he got knocked
Speaker 1: out one practice and comes back to him. We're like, hey,
Speaker 1: do you like said no, I want to keep going,
Speaker 1: and just a lack of knowledge right to understand, and
Speaker 1: so the coaches like, you know, he said he's good.
Speaker 1: He's good. Now I understanding, Like that could have been
Speaker 1: two concussions back back, he's dead, Like he goes home,
Speaker 1: he doesn't wake up right, and then you start to
Speaker 1: see like more and more he's altered. He's not sleeping
Speaker 1: as well, he's having anger issues. He's stealing and getting
Speaker 1: involved in alcohol when you never touched alcohol before getting
Speaker 1: involved with drugs. Right, you definitely see changes where people
Speaker 1: were like getting speeding tickets that never and there were
Speaker 1: safe drivers and all of that. Seeing injuries where somebody
Speaker 1: who was a clean person got surgery, had never had
Speaker 1: opiates before, and they give to you like, hey, here's
Speaker 1: a bottle of twenty five and they advise you like
Speaker 1: you don't have a nurse that's staying there to help you, right, right,
Speaker 1: So you're trying to limp around your house, or you're
Speaker 1: trying to like grab stuff and you only have one
Speaker 1: arm and your limit. Nobody is regulating everything. I'm like,
Speaker 1: here's the bottle. We'll see you get into the month.
Speaker 1: And they taste it, They're like, whoa, this is kind
Speaker 1: of cool for the people that like it.
Speaker 3: I can function.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they feel really good now, nobody.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I didn't really listen that much because I'm just coming
Speaker 1: out of surgery and somebody said like, hey, don't drive
Speaker 1: when you do these, and they feel so good they
Speaker 1: go out driving.
Speaker 2: You definitely see pastime. Yeah right, somebody makes.
Speaker 1: A small mistake and that alters the course of everything.
Speaker 1: I saw a fighter who was young, and again he
Speaker 1: had surgery. He just come out and nobody was there
Speaker 1: to help him, and he does exactly that. He drives.
Speaker 1: He gets a DUI because he's on pain meds, driving
Speaker 1: under the influence, and he didn't release. I guess it
Speaker 1: is on the bottle, but I was kind of out
Speaker 1: of it. I didn't listen to anybody, and then loses
Speaker 1: his job because of it, loses his license because of it,
Speaker 1: can't go do his job right, and then loses his
Speaker 1: apartment and then down just goes downhill from there, the
Speaker 1: fight career is over. So the one thing that he
Speaker 1: was passionate and loving goes away from him, and he
Speaker 1: just see their whole life go off course, and people
Speaker 1: aren't advising you on alternates, like, yeah, cannabis can be
Speaker 1: a great alter to that, so you can do something
Speaker 1: that's gonna remove the pain. Like I've had surgeries and thankfully, like,
Speaker 1: I hate opiates just it makes me feel so sick.
Speaker 1: I don't like how my body feels, so I wean
Speaker 1: myself off. They're like, all right, cool, so you're gonna
Speaker 1: do this much. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm just
Speaker 1: not gonna do the pills and get rid of it
Speaker 1: and take it into too the clinic and like give
Speaker 1: it to them. I don't have to take these, so
Speaker 1: thankfully for me, I don't like them, right, and I'm fortunate,
Speaker 1: But that's not so many other people.
Speaker 4: That struggle with that, and so many people find out
Speaker 4: they like them in a situation where you know, it
Speaker 4: wasn't even like.
Speaker 1: They would go yeah, yeah, something they wouldn't seek out.
Speaker 1: They had a surgery, they had an injury where they're like, here,
Speaker 1: take this insteady, and so yeah, it's just automatically come
Speaker 1: out of it, and nobody's even recommending other options. And
Speaker 1: I very quickly weaned myself off of it, and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't I don't want to take this.
Speaker 1: I don't like it. Thankfully, my mom came out and
Speaker 1: she'd been a nurse, so she helped me. She's like, oh,
Speaker 1: you need to take this much. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to. So she's like bringing me pain meds. I'm
Speaker 1: like sneaking them in a napkin and just like throwing
Speaker 1: them away and not telling her.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, and then and then she's like, okay, cool, we
Speaker 1: can kind of like dial it down and reduce the hours.
Speaker 1: I'm like, ohyeah, already, stop taking it? Yeah what like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I stopped taking them. I don't take them, are you no?
Speaker 1: But I'm given to you. I'm like, yeah, I've been
Speaker 1: throwing in the knapp boy like I don't take some
Speaker 1: super fortunate And then I started getting into CBD because
Speaker 1: I really wanted to remove the pain. I wasn't right,
Speaker 1: there was still pain there, but I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is much more manageable and I feel more in
Speaker 1: connection with my body. And when I went into the
Speaker 1: doctor and like he hate, everything's looking great. You know,
Speaker 1: how are you doing on pain? I'm like, yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: I stopped taking the payments in the first week. Like
Speaker 1: you can't do that. I'm like, well I did what
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And like, well, how do.
Speaker 1: You manage the pain and the inflammation? Like everything looks
Speaker 1: really good. I'm like CBD. They're like I don't think
Speaker 1: that does that?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Mind you this is wow ten years ago, right, and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I'm like, well, that's the only
Speaker 1: thing I'm doing is I'm doing CBD for pain and
Speaker 1: for inflammation. And I've done all the other protocol you
Speaker 1: guys have said, but it's it's CBD. It's hardy do things.
Speaker 1: And mind you, had I know more about cannabis, I
Speaker 1: probably would have used that as an alternative, because there
Speaker 1: was still a lot of pain and a lot of
Speaker 1: sleepless nights trying to get through it. And I'm like
Speaker 1: I'm just not I feel so sick. I'm giving the
Speaker 1: pain meds that they gave me. It's just not even
Speaker 1: an option. Trying to like argue with the doctor about
Speaker 1: like I'm not going to do pain meds when that's
Speaker 1: all they're advising you to do is do that. Was like,
Speaker 1: why am I having to argue about my care? Like
Speaker 1: you on this bottle also says like risk right, it
Speaker 1: could have all of these side effects, and they give
Speaker 1: you a print out of all the bad possibilities. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're giving me something and there's like twenty nine things
Speaker 1: on here that could go bad, one of which is death.
Speaker 1: And we know like the addiction level for people. Why
Speaker 1: would you push this on me? And what I have
Speaker 1: to argue about not taking this and tell you that,
Speaker 1: like you can prescribe it to me, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to get it. And I can remember, like I had
Speaker 1: another surgery and I come out and I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: I don't take payments and make me really sick. I
Speaker 1: don't like them, and I've learned how to deal with
Speaker 1: the pain. Like trust me, you're gonna want to take
Speaker 1: I'm like I'm not going to and they maybe they're
Speaker 1: like you cannot do the surgery and finish it off
Speaker 1: if you don't actually take this prescription. Like so I
Speaker 1: have to pay for a medication, I'm never going to
Speaker 1: eat And I told you guys, I'm like, we'll just
Speaker 1: give you a different one that'll agree with you better.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, it's not God, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: want to see this, like I'd rather not. And they
Speaker 1: didn't even give me an option.
Speaker 2: It's pretty remarkable, like we're almost like forced into these
Speaker 2: buckets and you're not allowed to do the other things.
Speaker 2: And so I'm curious with your journey with with CBD.
Speaker 2: What was that first experience with it? Were you always
Speaker 2: kind of you know, hey, I always think this could
Speaker 2: be something interested? Were you skeptical just just curious your
Speaker 2: thoughts and how did you change over?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was super skeptical.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: My mom was pretty open about her cannabis used and
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, I like pot. You know, I was
Speaker 1: born this in the fifties. I've lived through sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1: I think you can have a healthy relationship with it.
Speaker 1: I'm like cool, I'm like, it's not for me. And
Speaker 1: I joined the Marine Corps and it's not an option, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so the only thing I knew about CBD was
Speaker 1: THC base. I'm like, yeah, guys, I can't I fight
Speaker 1: for a living and I don't want to be high,
Speaker 1: Like it's just not of interest to me. I'm good.
Speaker 1: And one of the guys I worked with, he was
Speaker 1: a veteran and he had a big connection with CBD.
Speaker 1: He's liken't check out this company. It doesn't have You're
Speaker 1: not going to get high by using CBD. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I was medically discharged from the Air Force. I experienced pain,
Speaker 1: and this is what I do to help me sleep,
Speaker 1: to help me go through anxiety, and to help me
Speaker 1: reduce the pain. He's like going to help so much.
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't want to take pain meds and
Speaker 1: he's like, my body is so messed up for me
Speaker 1: medically discharge. I needed something. And he was a respectable
Speaker 1: person who's like leading this group that was helping veterans,
Speaker 1: really professionally human being and a guy I really trusted
Speaker 1: and liked. So I'm like, Okay, he's not a pothead,
Speaker 1: so you know, like I'm gonna trust him what he
Speaker 1: has to say about CBD. I started looking it up.
Speaker 1: I'm like, Okay, maybe you can do CBD without getting
Speaker 1: high and I don't have to worry about stuff. And
Speaker 1: I talked to the company and I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: these people nobody's they're not all potheads here and they're
Speaker 1: showing me around their business and showing me everything, and
Speaker 1: everybody is really functioning. I'm like, I think I've really
Speaker 1: misunderstood one what a pothead was, and then two like
Speaker 1: CBD and THHC aren't the same thing. So they gave
Speaker 1: me some product to try, Like I don't know. I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: but like I'm having trouble sleeping. Pain's really bad. I
Speaker 1: tried it out and I didn't expect it. Like I
Speaker 1: took the dose that they recommended. I'd laid on the
Speaker 1: couch and woke up and I'd been in the same
Speaker 1: position because I passed off so hard for the first
Speaker 1: time in like a month, and like my back was
Speaker 1: hurting because I was like sleeping in a weird position
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I slept on the couch like I
Speaker 1: don't sleep on the couch, and I'm like that was
Speaker 1: like eight hours ago, Like holy crap, and I'm not
Speaker 1: in pain other than I slept in a funky position,
Speaker 1: like I'm not in pain. Stuff. I'm like okay, And
Speaker 1: I tried it again the next day. I'm like, Wow,
Speaker 1: this stuff actually really works, and yeah, I'm not high.
Speaker 1: There's nothing else coming negative about it. I feel really good.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm managing mental health a lot better. Physically,
Speaker 1: I feel better, and because I'm not in pain, I'm
Speaker 1: sleeping through the night. All right, Maybe there was some
Speaker 1: more truth thiss. So I did even more research to
Speaker 1: try and understand the different types of CBD and all
Speaker 1: the benefits of it, and the difference between THHC and CBD.
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, this is actually really beneficial. Why
Speaker 1: wasn't I doing this before? Like I would have never
Speaker 1: I would have really fought with my surgeon about not
Speaker 1: using products like that with opiates and just on this instead.
Speaker 1: Like if I had known, I'm like, man, I definitely
Speaker 1: had a really a misunderstanding.
Speaker 2: And you're someone in training nutrition, going out of doctors
Speaker 2: constantly being not one person like let alone someone that's
Speaker 2: just an insurance agent, you know kind of then except
Speaker 2: hurt their knee, like they're just going in call today
Speaker 2: they have no ID. Yeah, I mean, it's it's crazy.
Speaker 2: You weren't made aware of you.
Speaker 4: Ever hied tolerance or a threshold probably for pain. So
Speaker 4: just imagine other people like the CBD. How much I
Speaker 4: guess maybe give us like a scale of how much
Speaker 4: it decreased your pain or what could people look too
Speaker 4: like equivalent.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean substantially without all the like when
Speaker 1: I compared to an opiate, Like when I took opiates,
Speaker 1: I still felt the pain. It was just a different
Speaker 1: sensation of people, right right, and then it was just like.
Speaker 4: It feels like you don't care then yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: But then also I felt nauseous, I felt groggy, and
Speaker 1: then I felt bloated, and you know all these other
Speaker 1: like my sleep was weird and it wasn't good. On CBD,
Speaker 1: I was clear headed, you know. Inflammation was reduced significantly,
Speaker 1: and that was like a big thing too. Is when
Speaker 1: you train as much as I do, you have information
Speaker 1: all over your body and again and again, like I
Speaker 1: do blood work, My blood work markers will show inflammation
Speaker 1: levels and it shows a significant production. I'm talking fifty
Speaker 1: percent in inflammation workers compared to what it had been. Right,
Speaker 1: So like, okay, well that I can clearly see is helping.
Speaker 1: I can see in a joint like if my elbow
Speaker 1: got smashed in and it's swollen, it reduced down. And
Speaker 1: so if I can visibly see no right inflammation, it's
Speaker 1: not swollen, it has gone down pain wise, I'm not
Speaker 1: focusing on the pain. There's still a little bit of
Speaker 1: pain there, but I'm aware of it. It's not distracting
Speaker 1: me from it, and it still isn't hurting. I can
Speaker 1: go drive and I'm not impaired and go through So
Speaker 1: to me, just all around much better option than using
Speaker 1: other things that they give you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Me, I feel like you're an expert on it.
Speaker 4: You've done You've done two of probably the toughest jobs,
Speaker 4: you know what I'm saying, for the marine and then
Speaker 4: to actually fight in a combat sport.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So if people are listening to her and they're like,
Speaker 2: all right, this is Liz Carmon, she's a marine, she's
Speaker 2: a MMA fighter, Okay, that's her. What about what about
Speaker 2: just like the typical person, you know, they're going to
Speaker 2: the gym a few times a week, they're getting information.
Speaker 2: This is not gonna work. I need more. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: need something else. Like she can tolerate page, she can
Speaker 2: handle it. Like what would you say to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd say my mom is a prime example. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she used cannabis and she was is okay for like
Speaker 1: smoking weed, but CBD wasn't something she was familiar with,
Speaker 1: like the polar opposite. I didn't know anything about CBD,
Speaker 1: And again she was asking me, She's like, hey, I
Speaker 1: remember when you had surgery and you weren't taking on
Speaker 1: the obvious, but you got through it. Like what exactly
Speaker 1: were you doing to help that? And she ended up
Speaker 1: having surgeries too, like she had to have knee replacement
Speaker 1: surgery and it didn't work, and so she definitely want
Speaker 1: something different because she's home alone really easy to just
Speaker 1: like be so focused on the pain and you get
Speaker 1: through it. And she tried CBD and she's like, this
Speaker 1: actually works really well, Like immediately I noticed information goes
Speaker 1: down immediately pain wise, it's almost like fifteen twenty minutes
Speaker 1: where I notice a change in it. And she's so
Speaker 1: like hyper aware of her pain and in such a
Speaker 1: pain state that I mean, it's my mom's seventy two now,
Speaker 1: she's just turned seventy three. So like when you know,
Speaker 1: if you're like six year old mom and she's saying like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm in pain, like she's not gonna get rid of pain.
Speaker 1: That's not somebody you definitely want to reduce it. So
Speaker 1: when she says there's a difference to me, that's a
Speaker 1: big difference. Yeah, yeah, right, And so that's who I
Speaker 1: noticed more because, like you said, yeah, I could. I've
Speaker 1: gone through a lot of pain and learned how to,
Speaker 1: like to some level, turn that switch off and ignore
Speaker 1: it to some degree you have to. And she's somebody
Speaker 1: who like doesn't turn that switched off and definitely doesn't
Speaker 1: ignore it and notices it. And CBD changed that for
Speaker 1: her and she could notice a difference, and that's me
Speaker 1: speaks to it.
Speaker 2: No, that's that's awesome. And I think obviously there's there's ignorance,
Speaker 2: and there's you know, an education on this and that
Speaker 2: the high you know that people just have that. And
Speaker 2: then I think a lot of that is because of
Speaker 2: our culture and our stigma behind CAMPA that MCBD, that
Speaker 2: it's still illegal in a lot of places. There's people
Speaker 2: in prison right now, you know, for doing things that
Speaker 2: people are making you know, millions for and things like that,
Speaker 2: and so there is this stigma. And then also what
Speaker 2: happens when you have states that are legal or some
Speaker 2: are decriminalized, you get a lot of let's just call
Speaker 2: it bullshit on the market. And so a lot of
Speaker 2: people's first experience with cannabis is something where they thought
Speaker 2: it was this but then there's all this other stuff
Speaker 2: in it, or they thought they were going to take
Speaker 2: CBD and they got it like their you know, grocery
Speaker 2: store down the road. It's like some five dollars tub
Speaker 2: And then you're like, Okay, why do you think this
Speaker 2: is gonna like it's getting like a five dollars lobster?
Speaker 2: Like you think it's gonna be a good lobster? Like,
Speaker 2: probably not? And so did you experience that? Have you
Speaker 2: seen people like I just know that there's a lot
Speaker 2: of there's a lot of crap out there, and a
Speaker 2: lot of that is because you know, there's this stigma
Speaker 2: around it. Yeah, So I'm curious like did you have
Speaker 2: to sort through things that worked for you particularly or
Speaker 2: did you kind of have things come around?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: No, No, I definitely had to. Thankfully, like I said,
Speaker 1: with my friend, he helped kind of direct it because
Speaker 1: he knew the company's producing it, right, So that made
Speaker 1: it definitely a lot easier when you get to go
Speaker 1: to it and you get to see firsthand what they're
Speaker 1: producing and the whole process and what they have. But
Speaker 1: then yeah, then once federally everything changed. What was before
Speaker 1: you had to go out of your way and they
Speaker 1: only had like good quality stuff out there and it
Speaker 1: wasn't as popular to then it being oversaturated in the
Speaker 1: market where you're like, hey, it's twenty five cents for
Speaker 1: the CBD. I'm like, yeah, that's that's probably not it right, right,
Speaker 1: But again, having to do research and really see stuff
Speaker 1: and try things out, I definitely have done things where
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, I ran out of my CBD and
Speaker 1: I made a huge mistake in practice and I got
Speaker 1: dropped and because I got my legs kicked out from
Speaker 1: under me and twisting my ankle and now my ankle's
Speaker 1: sooling this big and I and I have I'm not
Speaker 1: going to go do anti inflammatory medication, Like I'm just
Speaker 1: not that person. I'm not going to take it anymore.
Speaker 1: I'm not putting my liver through that. And I don't
Speaker 1: have CBD, so I need something. I'm like, cool, just
Speaker 1: went to the store, Like how convenience at the grocery shore.
Speaker 1: I'm like yeah, yeah, you know. Now look at it,
Speaker 1: I'm like, why is that twenty five milligrams or sugar
Speaker 1: in it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Inflammatory marker and increases inflammation, Like that's not going to
Speaker 1: help me, so like, okay, not that, and then it's like, wow,
Speaker 1: I'm having to weed through to see all the junk
Speaker 1: that's here, canola oil and CBD. Yeah right right, So
Speaker 1: it's really it does become very difficult, and most people
Speaker 1: aren't looking ingredients in their food, let alone their medication
Speaker 1: to really discern what's the good what's the bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, And then most people too, they're like, hey, I
Speaker 1: can get my medication for twelve dollars for one hundred pills,
Speaker 1: and it cost me one hundred and twenty dollars to
Speaker 1: get good CBD. So very quickly people are being like, well,
Speaker 1: I'd rather go cheaper. I'm like, yeah, but cheaper's going
Speaker 1: to mess up your body. There's a reason for it.
Speaker 2: Have you seen people that you're like, man, I wish
Speaker 2: i'd talked to them earlier, or kind of like changeovers
Speaker 2: where you're like they were doing X and now they're
Speaker 2: doing Y. Any other examples like that within your career, yeah, fighting, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, talking to because I had been in California
Speaker 1: for a long time being on a fighting team and
Speaker 1: getting to have a lot of military personnel that you
Speaker 1: worked with, interact with that you knew they're like, hey,
Speaker 1: we see you. We know you're not the type of
Speaker 1: person that's going out getting high every day, So what
Speaker 1: are you doing because my body's messed up for the
Speaker 1: military and I'm about to get out. Getting to talk
Speaker 1: to different rains and just seeing for them, they're like okay, difference,
Speaker 1: Like thank you so much, Like that that was huge,
Speaker 1: And then seeing other people too, where like you said, yeah,
Speaker 1: like what if those training partners that they discovered for
Speaker 1: trying to conflict with pain when they go to a
Speaker 1: doctor and doctors like, here, just take this. This is
Speaker 1: going to help you. That if we had all discovered
Speaker 1: CBD earlier in life, if they'd still be around now
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't be drug addicts, the wouldn't have lost
Speaker 1: all their jobs, they wouldn't be in a mental health
Speaker 1: care facility because they lost it, you know. And it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I wish that we had all known better then and
Speaker 1: there had been this research and been more information out there,
Speaker 1: because maybe not, but I certainly hope that that would
Speaker 1: have made a difference had they had that option.
Speaker 2: Yeah, very at least being exposed to it. For every person,
Speaker 2: there's going to be a different path and that can
Speaker 2: be the right path for people. But the fact that
Speaker 2: you don't even gain the information, like I know, for
Speaker 2: like veterans' affairs, you can't even go to them. They
Speaker 2: can't talk to you about cannabis. They can't even write
Speaker 2: you a recommendation saying that you have PTSD if the
Speaker 2: purpose is to give it to like a state physician,
Speaker 2: which is you tell people that it's absolutely freaking crazy,
Speaker 2: but you don't even get the option to hear that.
Speaker 2: And then so where are you gonna go? You're gonna
Speaker 2: go to other sources of information. And obviously you have
Speaker 2: a good head on your shoulder and you're looking at
Speaker 2: things and you have a team around you, but you're
Speaker 2: just sitting on the couch at home trying to figure
Speaker 2: it out, scrolling through and read you know, all this stuff.
Speaker 2: It's confusing and scaring. You're probably going to get something
Speaker 2: that's not greater poor information.
Speaker 1: So yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, And like I said, when
Speaker 1: it comes to you have the option of having a
Speaker 1: product that's super cheap, right, Like you can get opiates
Speaker 1: and it's two dollars and you get twenty five pills
Speaker 1: that they prescribe you. But you can't be prescribed CBD,
Speaker 1: and you can't you want to have to spend one
Speaker 1: hundred and twenty dollars and you're doing the math like,
Speaker 1: well this is easier. Want to just do this instead
Speaker 1: and then don't have to research and look things up
Speaker 1: and have to It shouldn't be that way. It it's
Speaker 1: so much cheaper to get these things that you know
Speaker 1: are hurting you rather than something that's helping them.
Speaker 4: As far as with the veterans, have you seen like
Speaker 4: movement from like the top.
Speaker 1: I see with the VA that they still fall under
Speaker 1: the conflict of federal enforcement. Right, So because federally we
Speaker 1: still learn this great of what THC, CBD and everything
Speaker 1: else can be used, they're not vocalizing any of that,
Speaker 1: and so unfortunately it's still pushed that the main source
Speaker 1: of what they're offering the military and veterans is still opiate's.
Speaker 1: It's still motor and it's still flex role for a muscle. Right.
Speaker 1: And then I do see that there are certain people
Speaker 1: that really is just based on states to state. We're
Speaker 1: still in that conflict where I've heard some people where
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, you use CBD, and there's kind of
Speaker 1: like they can't say anything. These give you the thumbs up,
Speaker 1: and then you can be in a different state where like, no,
Speaker 1: you can't use that, those are drugs, and I'm like, whoa,
Speaker 1: what are we just like going from California to Tennessee
Speaker 1: and the hearing, I'm like, I didn't think that we
Speaker 1: went back in time and it was just such a
Speaker 1: different scene. And the issue always run into is like
Speaker 1: whoever's in charge is on a rotation two to four years,
Speaker 1: whatever their term is. You could have somebody who at
Speaker 1: the end of the term is starting to see differences
Speaker 1: right and evolve with their policies and try and enforce
Speaker 1: new things and change things. But then the moment they
Speaker 1: start to make change, they're two to four years is up,
Speaker 1: somebody else comes in with the whole different agenda. They're
Speaker 1: completely ahead of everything and they're like I see these
Speaker 1: involvements in these changes happening, or they're completely against it.
Speaker 1: And that's always the difficulties when with the military, Like
Speaker 1: even I can remember being in the Marine Corps and
Speaker 1: you have we have somebody who's in charge, right, they're
Speaker 1: in charge of all the Marine Corps. They come in
Speaker 1: they're like, our policy is a marines are allowed to
Speaker 1: have tattoos, but only like a three court sleeve. Next
Speaker 1: person comes in, they go absolutely no tattoos whatsoever, and
Speaker 1: everybody that gets tattoos gets kicked out. Okay, so two
Speaker 1: weeks ago before you changed, we were just everybody went
Speaker 1: out and got three court sleeves like yeah, sorry, you're
Speaker 1: out now, and something like that. That really shouldn't have
Speaker 1: I understand, but shouldn't really have a plan in things.
Speaker 1: They're inappropriate tattoos, which has always been the thing. But
Speaker 1: and that policy just tattoos is everything from medical like
Speaker 1: CBD being allowed, and then the next person comes in
Speaker 1: they go absolutely no CBD. You've got to you got it,
Speaker 1: absolutely ridiculous. And so whereas one person making changes and
Speaker 1: making headwig in a positive way, somebody else slides in
Speaker 1: as a whole different thought process. And so it's really
Speaker 1: hard to keep up with it because the VA operates
Speaker 1: for the military, so in that same sense, they're evolving
Speaker 1: and rotating the same way that the military does. So
Speaker 1: it's really hard. And I see a lot of other people,
Speaker 1: like veterans like myself that have gotten out and they're
Speaker 1: trying to go to the VA and say like, hey,
Speaker 1: this needs to change, like these are the benefits that
Speaker 1: we're having. And they're trying to talk to people, but again,
Speaker 1: you know, like they're making headway. They're going working the
Speaker 1: way up the structure to talk to more people, talking
Speaker 1: to the next head above them and above that. But
Speaker 1: then everybody changes and pre people are talking before they're
Speaker 1: like yeah, absolutely, we hear what you're saying. You want
Speaker 1: to make changes, all those people are gone, right, And
Speaker 1: so it's really hard to make those movements, and to
Speaker 1: make those adjustments, it's got to start from much higher
Speaker 1: than that to be able to really have an effect.
Speaker 2: Who's the man?
Speaker 1: Yeah, in this situation, I think you know, we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to go to like higher government. We're talking like presidency.
Speaker 1: We're talking people within Congress, within the Senate. Those are
Speaker 1: the people that need to make those bigger changes because
Speaker 1: they're ultimately it's Congress and the Senate that has overseeing
Speaker 1: over them to make those changes. Right, So somebody changes
Speaker 1: there and it trinkles down everybody's changes. So I think
Speaker 1: if we can at the beginning of somebody's term, get
Speaker 1: to them and be able to say like, hey, these
Speaker 1: are the positive effects that we think we could help
Speaker 1: introduce into the va that's when it starts to happen,
Speaker 1: because that's when policies change. And unfortunately, what I see
Speaker 1: with the va IS is after so many losses like
Speaker 1: suicide within the veteran community and raising awareness on that,
Speaker 1: you know, like you lose a few veterans of suicide,
Speaker 1: that should be enough.
Speaker 2: We should be like, hey, we should do something's going
Speaker 2: on here, not like hey.
Speaker 1: Years of losing people to realize that what we're doing
Speaker 1: now isn't working and we need to change things.
Speaker 2: And you were talking about some of the advocacy that's
Speaker 2: coming from the military community now. And I worked a
Speaker 2: little bit in Kentucky where Dakota Meyer was with someone
Speaker 2: who worked with a Republican governor to talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: bringing plant based medicines there to fight mental health and
Speaker 2: opioid addition. Because he said, you know, I'm a Medal
Speaker 2: of Honor, you know, recipient. I did multiple tours here.
Speaker 2: I've lost so many more people back home to suicide
Speaker 2: than I ever did on any of my tours over
Speaker 2: I rack of Agans. So when you hear that, you
Speaker 2: can't just say oh, okay, moving on like that means something.
Speaker 1: I think it's simply looking at the numbers, like if
Speaker 1: we look at how many deuis happen because of people
Speaker 1: being under the influence fights, just altercations that happen, violence
Speaker 1: that happens. Let's look at those numbers that are involved
Speaker 1: with alcohol and then look at all the numbers of
Speaker 1: these altercations that happen under the influence of THHC. I
Speaker 1: bet it's a lot most Like we said, most people,
Speaker 1: if they smoke weed, they haven't edible.
Speaker 2: What do they want to do?
Speaker 1: They want to veg out and they want to chill.
Speaker 1: They're not looking to go to a fight, whereas people
Speaker 1: ge get drunk. I know that I did too when
Speaker 1: I was in the Marine Corps. I got drunk like yeah,
Speaker 1: fighting socks fighting, so yeah, absolutely, you want to punch
Speaker 1: me like cool for no reason. Next day be like
Speaker 1: why did I do that? Like you're not hearing the
Speaker 1: people say the same thing, like why do oh I
Speaker 1: ate too much food? Like if nothing else alone, let's
Speaker 1: just look at that find you. I understand. You want
Speaker 1: to restrict it. You want to make taxes, you want
Speaker 1: to make money. Let's just look at those numbers. Loan
Speaker 1: about live's loss altercations, money lost for having to give
Speaker 1: these people tickets, having to just everything there for violent
Speaker 1: acts destruction that's done the businesses because somebody was drunk
Speaker 1: and under the influence as opposed to people under the
Speaker 1: influencyc just compare those two numbers, and why why would
Speaker 1: we not say yes to one ding advice the other? Like,
Speaker 1: I'm ingesting unnecessary calories. I don't feel good after doing this,
Speaker 1: whether there's decisions I made under the influence or the
Speaker 1: next day, I don't feel good. So I finally came
Speaker 1: to a point where I'm like and then doing more
Speaker 1: recent I'm like, wow, I was really really bad for you,
Speaker 1: but it's so socially acceptable, And I'm like, man, since
Speaker 1: I stopped and I don't even know when that was,
Speaker 1: but since I stopped drinking, I've never had to like
Speaker 1: argue with people so much about why I don't want
Speaker 1: to drink. Where I go to any public event and
Speaker 1: they're like, hey, I'm like, oh, no, thank you, on
Speaker 1: to drinking.
Speaker 2: Why not?
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you? I'm like, I don't want to
Speaker 1: drink and like, just have one. I'm like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to have one. It's just one, You'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't. I'm like, okay, but I've never
Speaker 1: like I've had somebody offer me wee. I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: I'm good, like all right, cool, no worries. Yeah, Like
Speaker 1: I never have to argue about that, but I have
Speaker 1: to argue my points to say, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to drink and you are.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to push it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, do you want to hear this? No, that's a
Speaker 4: thank you that means this word for me.
Speaker 1: But like, and being in events where people are like,
Speaker 1: I can't trust somebody that doesn't drink, like really because
Speaker 1: I almost can't trust somebody that can drink, right, because
Speaker 1: how often the next day you're talking to something, they're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember saying or doing that, right man, that
Speaker 1: that's not trustworthy, and it's it sucks. I'm like, hey,
Speaker 1: somebody wants to drink, that's your choice. If I don't
Speaker 1: want to drink, that should be okay too. I'm not
Speaker 1: judging you one way or the other. Yeah, And it's not.
Speaker 1: It's so culturally, it's such a part of our culture
Speaker 1: now that you're wrong if you don't drink.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious with sports leagues have always they've been
Speaker 2: very similar kind of the van and on the other
Speaker 2: side of the private sector area you have sees as archaic.
Speaker 2: I think people see it. They always are on the
Speaker 2: forefront of a lot of things on how to make
Speaker 2: things work. Like you look during COVID, they were the
Speaker 2: first people to try to figure out how to open
Speaker 2: back up, and they were very you know, much more
Speaker 2: I think socially driven in a lot of ways on
Speaker 2: social rights and drug policy and things like that. Accepting
Speaker 2: being open to that. Can you talk about a little
Speaker 2: bit your experience, like dealing with mixed martial arts and
Speaker 2: how you've seen that and maybe maybe seening parallels to
Speaker 2: other athletes that you see in other leagues where they're
Speaker 2: much more restrictive on these types of thing are not
Speaker 2: as supportive. I'd be really curious about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Definitely in the early days, like Andrew asadav when
Speaker 1: you got drug tested, was no THC. There's no drugs
Speaker 1: of any sort, even if you're prescribed to medication, Like
Speaker 1: even if you had surgery, you still have to submit
Speaker 1: paperwork and doctors notices to say that you're approved to
Speaker 1: do that, right, and most of the time you're not
Speaker 1: thinking like you just came on doctor's office round, like yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm going to sbmit all this paperwork to Soden to
Speaker 1: get approval to say like hey, I'm supposed to take
Speaker 1: this right. And then that changed to where the only
Speaker 1: rule was you couldn't have teasing your system ten hours
Speaker 1: before you fight and leading up to it, so it's
Speaker 1: within a certain window. And then talking to another friend
Speaker 1: that's a professional NBA player, they're like, yeah, no TFC
Speaker 1: at all. Ever doesn't matter the time. It does not
Speaker 1: ten hours before I have a competition. It's not twenty four,
Speaker 1: there's no ever. And like CBD and now you're seeing
Speaker 1: like you said, you can see it as being one
Speaker 1: of the major parts within the cage where it's on
Speaker 1: the pad and it's a CBD company and like you
Speaker 1: show up to your fight and in your goodie bag
Speaker 1: where you have like their customary T shirt and also
Speaker 1: there's also CVD. Like a huge difference between like we're
Speaker 1: gonna test you, don't you dare have CBD in your body,
Speaker 1: to hey, we're gonna give you this c like wait,
Speaker 1: wait is this fawn that ten hour window? Like I'm
Speaker 1: I actually allowed to do this, So a huge huge
Speaker 1: change and again not necessarily them advocating for induction how
Speaker 1: it helps you. It's not educating you on how it
Speaker 1: helps you. But going from its band you're not allowed
Speaker 1: to have it at all to now it's a part
Speaker 1: of your your gimme bag, right, you can have it.
Speaker 1: It's a huge difference. And that's still not in public sports, right,
Speaker 1: You're still not seeing it in the major leagues where
Speaker 1: they're allowed to have these things and they have those
Speaker 1: same level of a lack of restriction. It's still very
Speaker 1: much a no go and they're not allowed to do it.
Speaker 1: And still in the military too.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you would want something that kind of helps out
Speaker 4: or prolongs the ability of whatever sport or whatever player
Speaker 4: it is. Like you know, like Okay, if this dude
Speaker 4: recovers better with CBD then getting on these opioids, drinking,
Speaker 4: doing something dumb, you know, like how much of that
Speaker 4: is a factor? How much like with anything where you
Speaker 4: might get a concussion, Like, is there any research on that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's not research on it. Because I was
Speaker 1: curious about that too, just to see because if it's
Speaker 1: reducing inflammation, then theory some of the damage is done
Speaker 1: from brain damage, is inflammation within the brain right now, right,
Speaker 1: and I know that I'd gotten dropped really bad in practice,
Speaker 1: like it got a really bad concussion, and try to
Speaker 1: do everything from omega acids and trying to make sure
Speaker 1: that I have my omega threes, doing everything from healthy
Speaker 1: fats to fish oils to all the like allions made
Speaker 1: mushrooms and things like that. So trying to ingest as
Speaker 1: much as that doing pressure treatment where they push in
Speaker 1: the chamber right. And then the other thing I did
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I upped my CBD because I kind
Speaker 1: of fallen off. I was like, oh, no, no big deal.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like, oh, I made sure. And I'm a
Speaker 1: part of a study that does brain scans and if
Speaker 1: you get a concussion, if there are markers in your brain,
Speaker 1: they're not getting it's in your blood and because you
Speaker 1: have increased information in your blood and they can see
Speaker 1: like essentially scars issue in your brain is permanent. It
Speaker 1: doesn't go away you get a concussion. It's not like,
Speaker 1: oh you just magically heel for it. The majority of
Speaker 1: information hills, but the scars there's like a cut, like
Speaker 1: you get cut, it heals, but you still have the scars.
Speaker 1: It's the same thing. So they know if you have
Speaker 1: a concussion. And I went in, I did the scan
Speaker 1: stuff and they're like, cool, so did you have you
Speaker 1: retired from fighting? I'm like, excuse me, Like with your brain,
Speaker 1: it's just like it's healing and some of the scars
Speaker 1: are not there that were there before. Like I'm like no, Actually,
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy because about three months ago, I
Speaker 1: got dropped really bad and I had a headache for
Speaker 1: like a week straight. And they're like no, I'm like yes,
Speaker 1: Like it's not a question, it's not a doubt. Like
Speaker 1: I'm so I just fought. We scheduled this because I
Speaker 1: just had a fight, and you have to wait so many,
Speaker 1: like thirty days before you can go and start doing
Speaker 1: this testing again. And they're like, oh wait, you did
Speaker 1: say that. They're like it doesn't your scams don't make
Speaker 1: any sense, Like what are you doing. I'm like, the
Speaker 1: only thing I can say is a clean diet. I
Speaker 1: don't drink anymore in CBD. Right, It's like we might
Speaker 1: need to add that as some of the research because
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense. Like looking at it, you're like
Speaker 1: back backwards, You're you're faster, you're sharper. Your scams are
Speaker 1: healthier than they were last time.
Speaker 2: Is that the Cleveland brain study. But a lot of
Speaker 2: the NFL players are amazing. Yeah, OK, that's really fascinating.
Speaker 3: That's good to know.
Speaker 4: Like you said, it needs to be more more research
Speaker 4: on that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's that's impressive.
Speaker 1: And maybe it's just for me, you know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Just like I know that like if we wait until
Speaker 1: the body in the brain are fully developed and you
Speaker 1: ingest drugs or alcohol, the likelihood that you get addicted
Speaker 1: goes down, and the likelihood that you use those products
Speaker 1: also goes down. And then the impact that it has
Speaker 1: on your brain is it's not forming because it's already formed.
Speaker 1: So like your level, it doesn't compromise. Like you have
Speaker 1: a kid that smokes sweet at thirteen and then is
Speaker 1: smoking weed all the time. Their brain is altered because
Speaker 1: of that, right, right, like twenty six years old, that's
Speaker 1: your first time trying anything. Your brain isn't really altered.
Speaker 1: Still has effects, but not the same, right, So I
Speaker 1: don't know if maybe just because I had never done
Speaker 1: cbdtch HE or anything until I was in my thirties,
Speaker 1: if that influenced it, right, and why it had a
Speaker 1: positive effect or other than a negative effect.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then again those are other parameters that they'd have
Speaker 1: to consider when doing that study. Is the age and
Speaker 1: the development of the brain and how that kind.
Speaker 3: Of right and like you said, your relationship with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you so much for your time today, Liz.
Speaker 3: This has been awesome.
Speaker 2: We want to keep your goys long But just one
Speaker 2: last quite kind of ending on a note of kind
Speaker 2: of moving looking forward. Where do you see kind of veterans'
Speaker 2: access moving forward? Where have you seen where we really
Speaker 2: need to start focusing what can people do to help
Speaker 2: and where can people get more educated? Just any thoughts
Speaker 2: that you have kind of on the next two five years,
Speaker 2: you know, kind of moving forward then and access to
Speaker 2: this type of care.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for veterans, like it's officers need to
Speaker 1: step up to the role more, right, Like most of
Speaker 1: the people I know that are stepping up and they're
Speaker 1: approaching the VA and they're trying to make change. They're
Speaker 1: in former enlisted and it's just one there's there's a
Speaker 1: niche market with with the officers where they have such
Speaker 1: a good community. One they're at the top, right, so
Speaker 1: the top is going to make connections to the other
Speaker 1: people at the top and be able to speak off
Speaker 1: Like you aren't seeing senators and congressmen. They're former and listed,
Speaker 1: they're former officers, right right. So in that same sense,
Speaker 1: if we can get the officers to speak up and
Speaker 1: to make the differences and to approach, whether that's the
Speaker 1: listed personnel former and listed, the talks home. But it's
Speaker 1: the officers that need to use the connections that they
Speaker 1: have to be able to make the change and to
Speaker 1: reach out to their congressmen, their senators, the higher ups
Speaker 1: that they have. They're in charge and leading the way
Speaker 1: to be able to start implementing these new policies and
Speaker 1: making new change to help the veteran community.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, And we and we need that. We gotta.
Speaker 4: We got to treat our veterans better, like you said,
Speaker 4: people that put in willing to do that sacrifice, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, Like they deserve the best when
Speaker 4: it comes to treatment and like their mental health and
Speaker 4: all that type of care. So yeah, I love what
Speaker 4: you're doing. Appreciate you. Yeah, amazing, You're bad ass. You
Speaker 4: know this, you know what I'm saying. So Okay, this
Speaker 4: is the last question I have. If I ever get
Speaker 4: hit in the face, what is the best way to
Speaker 4: deal with it?
Speaker 3: And where do I need to go? Mentally?
Speaker 1: Oof, that's you know, that's where it comes into a
Speaker 1: fight or flight response, because.
Speaker 3: I'm thinking flight. I'm thinking flight. Do I have Do
Speaker 3: I have a way out?
Speaker 1: But that's not the wrong approach, you know. Like even
Speaker 1: even I've been out in town hanging out with the friends,
Speaker 1: a drunk altercation happens and they're like, hey, lizen like,
Speaker 1: I'm not the bouncer, I'm not coming in like the
Speaker 1: higher yeahs to be a fight, but I'm like, it doesn't, Like,
Speaker 1: why do I want to jump into a fight? There's
Speaker 1: no point in that. I'll be like, hey, calm the friends,
Speaker 1: let's walk out here, let's get the way for the altercation.
Speaker 1: I don't think that that walking away from the situation
Speaker 1: is the wrong I think if you're trying to protect somebody,
Speaker 1: like if somebody attacks your son, yeah, you know, try
Speaker 1: and safely get him out of there if you can
Speaker 1: and run away. But if that's not because you're carrying
Speaker 1: a child, like I know my eight year old son,
Speaker 1: he's a lot denser than he looks. He's a scrawny
Speaker 1: little kid, and then you pick him up, like, how
Speaker 1: are you seventy pounds? You look like you're like thirty pounds, right,
Speaker 1: So like moving seventy pounds is a lot harder than
Speaker 1: you think it is. So like trying to get them
Speaker 1: out there, They're like, you're going to face situations where
Speaker 1: you do have to fight, but I think more often
Speaker 1: looking for the safe way to exit that situation. It's
Speaker 1: the best way to go.
Speaker 2: Liz, thank you again. Is there a place that we
Speaker 2: could direct folks at all? Is there any website anything
Speaker 2: you want to play?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I do need to get a website go, And I've
Speaker 1: been saying that for years. I still end up never
Speaker 1: doing it. From the most part, I'm on millions and
Speaker 1: that's kind of a way that people can help give
Speaker 1: back to me. And then the biggest source for social
Speaker 1: media is Instagram, Instagram perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and where can we find you on Instagram? On Instagram?
Speaker 2: I am gorilla girls.
Speaker 3: It's awesome.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you again. Yeah, Liz is an awesome guys.
Speaker 2: Check out Liz Carmoush. Go to a girl rilla on
Speaker 2: Instagram to her and thank you again.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you appreciate it all right, welcome back, special thanks
Speaker 2: again to Liz Carmouche. Yes, awesome interview. I've always heard
Speaker 2: that Cleveland Brain study. I didn't really know what was
Speaker 2: about it was participating. I thought that was like really fascinating,
Speaker 2: Like she was just talking about.
Speaker 4: If that's not enough to get you on board with
Speaker 4: at least the research aspect of it, at least the
Speaker 4: trial and experimental aspect of it, I don't know what
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't And Liz is like the most like straight
Speaker 2: level being a marine was like emboldened her by like
Speaker 2: she is, like she was very skeptical of this at first,
Speaker 2: and she had a lot of the questions I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people do, like is it addictive? Is
Speaker 2: it's like it's gonna make me sleepy? Or is going
Speaker 2: to make me tiree yes, exactly. Those are all valid
Speaker 2: questions that we don't really have like a place to
Speaker 2: just like discover and like understand and being able to
Speaker 2: talk to your doctor about it or something like that.
Speaker 2: And so I think that was really important to show, like,
Speaker 2: I mean, these are skeptics that are coming through that
Speaker 2: the height of their control. This isn't someone that's just
Speaker 2: trying to have a good time. They're trying to prove
Speaker 2: themselves better, themselves, continue to do their profession and the
Speaker 2: passions that they love. And I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people can resonate with that. That's I definitely did, And
Speaker 2: I've talked to my parents about you know, guys, they've
Speaker 2: gotten older, like you know, using CBD, and they've had
Speaker 2: those same questions, and so I'm happy for them to
Speaker 2: be able to listen.
Speaker 4: To this, And like we were saying, is having those conversations,
Speaker 4: is being able to put it in a way where
Speaker 4: they can understand it. And sometimes you need it, You
Speaker 4: need to hear somebody else lay it out in a
Speaker 4: way with the credentials to make it valid exactly.
Speaker 2: I really just I thought that was such an important
Speaker 2: conversation to have because it just again it shows not
Speaker 2: only the things that were we know about and have
Speaker 2: knowledge and capabilities to explore more on CBD and on
Speaker 2: HEMP and what works and what's not. And then we
Speaker 2: also at the same time have states trying to claw
Speaker 2: these back. Veterans can't even go to their their VA
Speaker 2: doctor and talk about this a lot. It's just this weird,
Speaker 2: like again complicated piecemeal. We're almost living in multiple universes
Speaker 2: and worlds like within this like policy and it's just
Speaker 2: again it's a recurring theme Ticklar with cannabis, as like
Speaker 2: we live in this kind of gray area of the
Speaker 2: world with it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it doesn't make sense, And I think that's
Speaker 4: what we're doing a good job of highlight it doesn't.
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if alcohol is not that effective of opioids, if
Speaker 4: you're not looking at that like it's detrimental when you
Speaker 4: have the facts right in front of you, Yeah, then
Speaker 4: what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, something Liz was talking about that really resonated
Speaker 2: was that you know it with the veterans, it's going
Speaker 2: to take the officers, it's going to take those people
Speaker 2: to kind of like move through. And if you have
Speaker 2: veterans in your life and people that are in the military,
Speaker 2: they're not getting a lot of this information from the
Speaker 2: sources that we may think they would be. So maybe
Speaker 2: you could be that or at least like open up
Speaker 2: to them and say, like, what's your story, what's going on?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of people are struggling and hurt and
Speaker 2: may not know Avenue's resources or anything else going out there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, talk to the people you have in your family
Speaker 4: and community, share this episode with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: And Liz also talked a lot about how whenever she
Speaker 4: would go to the doctor after having surgery or anything,
Speaker 4: they would try to push her to those pain medications,
Speaker 4: the painkillers, and she was adamant about I'm not taking those.
Speaker 4: I do CBD, this is how I recover, and just
Speaker 4: how important it is for the medical community to study
Speaker 4: this or take her seriously. She says she dealt with
Speaker 4: so many doctors that didn't believe that she wasn't taking them,
Speaker 4: and that there's no way she could be here with
Speaker 4: that kind of pain without going to an opioid or
Speaker 4: the traditional go to painkillers.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, this is not going back to some of
Speaker 2: the roots that we dug in season one. Misinformation about
Speaker 2: some of the benefits of potentially some of these things are,
Speaker 2: how harmful they are or not. A lot of that
Speaker 2: research is driven in the dirt, and then it doesn't
Speaker 2: get research at places, and we still need so much
Speaker 2: more research, and like I said, the ignorance of a
Speaker 2: lot of what CBD is compared to THC and what
Speaker 2: they do and what they don't. It leads to really
Speaker 2: bad policy, and it leads to people filing bills to
Speaker 2: remove the whole thing. And you know, you're like, you're
Speaker 2: going to do this to things that don't even make
Speaker 2: people high. But again it's the lack of research and
Speaker 2: education and it's ignorance. And I think that stems in
Speaker 2: a lot of the medical where they are under a
Speaker 2: guy's and regulations on what they can and cannot say
Speaker 2: about certain things. They can't talk to you about this
Speaker 2: if they if they're not allowed to or that or
Speaker 2: this diet. Not even just with like cannabis, it's with
Speaker 2: other things, like there are things that are allowed to
Speaker 2: pbscriber and they're allowed or not because those are on
Speaker 2: those regulations. A lot of that comes from the prohibition
Speaker 2: that we have on cannabis. It is a schedule one drug.
Speaker 2: It is a Schedule one drug, and all the other
Speaker 2: ones are prehbaitive. It's MDMA. You know you need all
Speaker 2: these special and it really gets into that, and again
Speaker 2: it just makes all this that much more frustrating when
Speaker 2: you hear these stories of people succeeding and others cannot because.
Speaker 4: Of what else right not even given the option right exactly,
Speaker 4: and that's why these stories are important, man, I mean,
Speaker 4: get them out there so people do have the language
Speaker 4: and the capacity to talk about it with their love one.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, thank you, Liz, And again we're going to
Speaker 2: keep rolling for the next episode, episode four. Another amazing
Speaker 2: kind of unique experience and something that's kind of coming up.
Speaker 2: We talk about, you know, being California sober and what
Speaker 2: that means with Marcus King, who is an amazing i'll
Speaker 2: just say, a southern rock musician, just overall amazing. We
Speaker 2: got to interview him here in DC, and then I
Speaker 2: got to go to his concert he was playing that night.
Speaker 2: My wife and I went and saw some of the folks.
Speaker 2: Just an incredible artist, an incredible story and one that
Speaker 2: again I think will resonate with a lot of people
Speaker 2: coming from a small town, not a lot of resources
Speaker 2: out there, what does that look like? And again you're
Speaker 2: gonna have to listen to it to find out. But
Speaker 2: this is when I did solo as well, so you're
Speaker 2: gonna learn the same time.
Speaker 3: Let's do it. I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, awesome, that's the Again, it's special.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: And those War on drugs, the War on Drugs is
Speaker 2: a production of Lava for Good and Stand Together Music
Speaker 2: and association with Signal Company Number one. Stand Together Music
Speaker 2: unites musicians and their teams with proven change makers to
Speaker 2: co create solutions to some of the most pressing issues
Speaker 2: in our country, including criminal justice, for foreign addiction, recovery,
Speaker 2: mental health, education, free speech, and ending the War on drugs.
Speaker 2: Learn more at Stand Together Music dot org. Be sure
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