1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,880 Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Sophia Bush here. Welcome to Work in Progress, 2 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: where I talk to people who inspire me about how 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: they got to where they are and where they think 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: they're still going. You probably know him as the lovably insane, 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: quirky Dwight Shroot on the Office, but you are about 6 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: to learn a lot more about him. Rain Wilson is 7 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: here today. I just loved talking to him about his 8 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: interesting childhood, how he got into acting, and how the 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: role of Dwight came to be. We're also going to 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: talk about the importance of religion in his life, his 11 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: company's soul Pancake, how we need to connect more as 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: human beings, and so much more. I'm really excited to 13 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: have you here. I had so much fun on your podcast. 14 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: Thank you for welcoming me to your space, and I'm 15 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: happy to welcome you to mine. Thanks for having me here. 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,399 Speaker 1: I'm really excited to talk to you. That was a 17 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: great interview experience that resident. I had a metaphysical milkshake, 18 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: and you had so many really cool things to say. 19 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: And I just love the way that you're you. You 20 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: walk the walk, you know, and that's just really really 21 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: cool to see you experience. That's really nice. So many 22 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: of us, and I know I'm speaking for myself and 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: some of my friends came to know you on the 24 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: show and as this brilliantly bizarre, comedic character, and and 25 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: yet I'm always really curious about how you began, because 26 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: then I get to know you as a person. When 27 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: you launched Soul Pancake, I found it online and thought, 28 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is what we've all needed. And 29 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: then I found out it was yours, and I was like, 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 1: I need to know more about this guy because I 31 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: know this character, but who is this person who's so 32 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: interested in this sort of metaphysical and and in our 33 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: wellness on the internet? And then I did your podcast 34 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: and we had this conversation about faith and purpose, and 35 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: I was like, I like him so much. And I 36 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: just thought to myself, were you this sort of observational 37 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: and and open and interested in the world around you 38 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: when you were a little kid? Like, what were you 39 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: like at ten? Oh? Well, I you know, it's a 40 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,640 Speaker 1: lot of different ways to go with this, but what 41 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: I was like at ten was just painfully, painfully shy 42 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 1: and insecure. And soon they're at skinny as a rail, 43 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: and soon thereafter kind of pimply and just always felt 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: myself kind of a misfit and a brain and just 45 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 1: someone just alienated that would never and could never fit in. 46 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: So I think that as an actor, I always gravitated 47 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: towards the roles of the characters that can never and 48 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: will never fit in. Like I would never know how 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: to be like a popular person, you know, I wouldn't 50 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: know how to play someone who was like successful and 51 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: well balanced and admired and with lots of friends or 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: something like that. I'm always going to play outsiders in 53 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: some way, shape or form, usually comedic ones, but I've 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: done dramatic ones as well. But you know, the interesting 55 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: story about the acting thing is that my mom left 56 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: me and my dad when I was two years old, 57 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: and I never knew why or how. I'd asked my dad, 58 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: and I basically didn't see her again till I was 59 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: about fifteen o one, one or two or three times 60 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: super briefly in that time, and I would always ask 61 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 1: my dad, why did you guys get a divorce? And 62 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: he would never really say, It's like, oh, we we 63 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: just went on different journeys and kept it really vague. 64 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: So when I started getting interesting interested in acting when 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: I was sixteen, seventeen, eighteen years old. My dad was 66 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: really weird about it. And that's when I was starting 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: to get to know my mom again and my birth 68 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: mother again. And then finally, when I was twenty one 69 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: twenty two, somewhere in there, I asked my birth mother, 70 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: her name is Shay, I said, why did you guys 71 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: get a divorce? And she said, you don't You don't know. 72 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: Your dad never said and he goes, no, He just 73 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,839 Speaker 1: kept it really vague, and she was like, um, I 74 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: was an actress in Seattle in the late sixties, and 75 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 1: I left your dad to have an affair with a 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 1: theater director. And he never My dad never bad mouth Turry, 77 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: never said a single bad thing about her, even though 78 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 1: she cheated on him and left and had this infant 79 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: that saddled him with this like infant and toddler and 80 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: then ran off gallivanting with in her love affair. And 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: so I always thought so weird that my dad was 82 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: kind of kind of put off by me being an actor, 83 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: and he seemed like, really he is. He supported me 84 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: doing the arts. It wasn't about that, but just acting. 85 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: He was just a little gool. So it's so interesting 86 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: that that there seems to be a genetic component to that. 87 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: My mom, who I never knew, I had no idea 88 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: she had been an actress, and I just started getting 89 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: interested into it and and going into it and uh 90 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: and then yeah, so that's that's that. That's so interesting 91 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: and what a kindness. You know, your dad didn't project 92 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: his broken heart onto you as a kid. Yeah, yeah, 93 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: that's hard for us. Yeah, yeah, we've had you know, 94 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: my dad's and dad and I have had our ups 95 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: and downs, as you know kids and parents often do. 96 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: But I do really respect that about him, Like he 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: he doesn't say, he doesn't bad mouth people. You know, 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: he has a lot of integrity and a lot of 99 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: those kind of ways. That's really cool. So where did 100 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 1: you grow up? This was Seattle, you know, this was Seattle, 101 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: But we moved to Chicago when I was sixteen, and 102 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: that's when I went to this really great high school 103 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: called New Trier that's kind of infamously it's a wealthy 104 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: high school. We were very we were not wealthy at all, 105 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 1: but we moved into like the one apartment building that 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: was in the like radius of this high school, and 107 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: it was a lot of millionaires houses, but it has 108 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: incredible hearts programs, of course, because it's got all this money. 109 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: And that's a whole other topic of conversation about social justice, 110 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: like why are high schools and schools based on the 111 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: property taxes and property values around those schools? Because this 112 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: was in will Met, Illinois, and then you know, six 113 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 1: miles south of there, you're in North Chicago and there's 114 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: housing projects and the and this chicken wire windows. You know, 115 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 1: high schools six miles away, and we had our own 116 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: radio station and dance studio with like a sprung floor 117 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: and theater giant theaters, like three different theaters and stuff 118 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: like that, because the funding of high schools is based 119 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: on property values anyway. So that's where I kind of 120 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: started acting, was when I went to Chicago for my 121 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: final years of high school. And uh, and that's where 122 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: I got into it. But really, like I don't know, 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: I don't know your story about how you got into 124 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 1: acting thing, but for me, ultimately it came down to 125 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: so there's the ten year old kid, super insecure, and 126 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: the pimpley kid was a little older, a little nerdier, 127 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: and I was doing like I played the bassoon in 128 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: the orchestra and I went to Model United Nations conferences 129 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: and I was on the chess team, and I would 130 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: drive around Seattle competing in chess matches. And then all 131 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I started doing acting and I started 132 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 1: making people laugh. And then cute girls asked me to 133 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: sit down at their lunch table with them, and so 134 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: I was like, I mean I remember inside just being like, okay, 135 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: funk all that other stuff. I'm not. I'm doing this thing. 136 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm doing the thing that gets me invited to sit 137 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: with the cute girls at their lunch table in the cafeteria. 138 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: So at that point, I just kissed goodbye to the 139 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: bassoon and the chess and the Model United Nations and 140 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: the dungeons and dragons. I let all that go. Was like, 141 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing this thing, got it? Do you still 142 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: play chess? I do. I've taken a hiatus from it 143 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: because I get too obsessed. I put the app, the 144 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: Chess dot Com app on my phone, and I can 145 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: just spend hours. I'll just go hours diving into matches 146 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: and speed chess and chess puzzles and opening learning openings, 147 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 1: and it just I don't have the brain space to 148 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: do it. I can't do it part time. I get that. Yeah, yeah, 149 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: you realize the first step is is the admitting of 150 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: the addiction ry exactly. Yeah. Something I'm curious about Seattle 151 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 1: as a boy, Chicago as a teenager. I lived in 152 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: Chicago for four years. It's like my home away from home. 153 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: I have a lot of Chicago bride. But you had 154 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: a a sort of stint in between, and you were 155 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: living in Nicaragua. Yeah that was not that was priest. Well, yeah, 156 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: I was during the Seattle. So my parents were members 157 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: of the High Faith and the they went to go 158 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: work with the High Community in the late sixties right 159 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 1: after when my mom left. My dad what did he do? Well? 160 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: He was he was a bhigh and he had this giant, white, 161 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 1: pudgy toddler and he packed me up under one arm 162 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: and he moved to Central America. So I spent from 163 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:42,199 Speaker 1: two to five in mostly Nicaragua but also Mexico and 164 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 1: lived in the jungles of of Nicaragua on the Mosquito 165 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: coast as a as a child. And what was happening there? 166 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: What was your dad doing? And how how are you 167 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: growing up? This is kind of like the High version 168 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: of missionary work. So it's a little it's better than missionary. 169 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: Missionary has a very bad um connotation because you know, 170 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: like converting the natives and stopping them from going to Hell, 171 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: be heise or not about that. So you know, we 172 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 1: do talk about the behindh faith and teach it and 173 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: by principles, but service work, working with the nascent behind 174 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 1: communities of the area. He was doing a lot of 175 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: that stuff. But also my dad started business as he 176 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: started an oyster farm in Nicaragua. Yeah, he started like gathering, 177 00:10:23,920 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: chucking oysters, putting them in brine, canning them, sending them 178 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: out to Managua and then they would get sent to 179 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: like Mexico City and other places like that. And he 180 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:39,439 Speaker 1: was had an oyster farm business. That's so interesting. Are 181 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,319 Speaker 1: you approach chucking an oyster? I'm terrible at chucking oyster 182 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 1: me too, and I want to know how to do it. 183 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 1: It's so hard to do. I don't know. When you 184 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: see those guys doing it, it's crazy. I don't understand it. 185 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: I was a cater waiter in New York for years 186 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 1: and sometimes we would have to like prep and chuck oysters, 187 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: and nights I would slice my fingers open. It's the worst. Yeah, 188 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: but I love eating them. I had this conversation with 189 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 1: somebody the other day just about practical skills, and you 190 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: realize that because so much of the universe is tech 191 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: pace now, Like I looked around and I'm like, I 192 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: don't know how to do anything. Like I can hang shelves, 193 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: that's great. Um, I'm handy, but I wouldn't know how 194 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 1: to fix an air conditioner or a carburetor. I don't 195 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: know how to chuck an oyster. I can hard boil 196 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: an egg, but like, cool, that's going to save us 197 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 1: when the apocalypse happens. Like I I wanna I almost 198 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: want to go take shop classes or something. Yeah, and 199 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: all your spare time. I mean, I know, but it's 200 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 1: a fantasy. I mean I do have a I have 201 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:41,880 Speaker 1: a great appreciation of the fact like when I was 202 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: getting going in college and it's like the mid eighties 203 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: and stuff like I had a bunch of broken down 204 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: cars that I bought, you know, literally like going to 205 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: the you know, in the new back of the newspaper 206 00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 1: and buying a Toyota for dollars, putting in a carburetor 207 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: and new breaks and changing own a O whil and 208 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: stuff like that. So I went through a period of 209 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,760 Speaker 1: time which I'm really grateful for that I had because 210 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: I didn't have an alternative. I was broke and I 211 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: needed a car, and I had to you know, I 212 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: had to work a job, and I had to learn 213 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: how to fix ship, and I couldn't hire a handyman 214 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: or gardeners or anything like that. So, um, I'm grateful 215 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,560 Speaker 1: for that time in my life. That's really cool you talk. 216 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: I've heard you talk about what it was like growing up, 217 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: you know, with your dad and and growing up, as 218 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: you said, not in a family with money, you know, 219 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: shopping at the Salvation Army, like not having a ton 220 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: of stuff as a kid. What was that like for 221 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:54,319 Speaker 1: you winding up in such a wealthy school in Chicago. Yeah, 222 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: that was like that was like living inside a John 223 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: Hughes movie. I mean it was literally because New Trier 224 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: is kind of based on one of those John Hughes 225 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: kind of high schools, like pretty and pink kind of 226 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: high schools, And it was I was the kid from 227 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: the wrong side of the tracks in Seattle. It's not 228 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: like the Seattle neighborhood was like poor, but it was 229 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: working class. My friends dads were insurance salesmen and fishermen 230 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: and carpenters, and they weren't lawyers and doctors and stuff 231 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: like that. So I was this kid from suburban Seattle 232 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: and we were pretty broke, and and you know, we 233 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: drove from Seattle to Chicago in a U hall you know, 234 00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: the stuff in the back, and moved into an apartment 235 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: building and Will met and and you know, it was 236 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: it's it's fascinating as one of the most seminal times 237 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: in my life. Like I'm really grateful for it because 238 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: I was, like I said, this intensely nerdy kid, and 239 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: I really almost decided to change who I was in 240 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: the world at sixteen. I was I saw it as 241 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: like I had my first girlfriend in Seattle. I was 242 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: heartbroken leaving her. I was sobbing, and it was so 243 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: heartbroken about that. But I was really into like punk, 244 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: a new wave and and the arts and being an artist, 245 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: and so I just said, like, I don't have to 246 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: be the same person I was in Seattle at Short 247 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: Crest High School. I can go to New Trier High 248 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: School and kind of reinvent myself. So it was like 249 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,400 Speaker 1: this when I came into New Treer, like I had 250 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: a new wave haircut, like I'd had a picture of 251 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: David Bowie and tore out of a magazine and went 252 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: into like a went into a hair salon. It was like, 253 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: can you make my hair look like this? And so 254 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: I had this kind of punky kind of thing, and 255 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: I had torn jeans and I had to clash T 256 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: shirts and army jackets and and boots and stuff like that. 257 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: And so I came into New Tree. I was like, 258 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: who's this outrageous punk rebel kid artist kid? And they 259 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: didn't know like my Model United Nations and and Ceramics Club. 260 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: Pas asked to what I want to hang out with 261 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 1: the kid who's instagramics come and place chess and is 262 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: in Model United. I love that kid. I know. I'm 263 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: he's still He's still in here. He's still in there somewhere. 264 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: But so I kind of reinvented myself in some ways. 265 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: I was still was pretty nerdy. So it was really exciting. 266 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: And then I started acting, and like I said, I 267 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: got invited to the cute girls table and and then 268 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 1: I saw that I could make people laugh and and 269 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,080 Speaker 1: that started my acting career and some really amazing acting 270 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: teachers there that I'm so I'm still in touch with 271 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 1: and really grateful for and that started starting my path. 272 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: That's so cool. Were you a big reader as a kid? 273 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: I was, what kind of the things you into reading? 274 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: So my my TV room now are like where we 275 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: sit media room, TV room. It's just it's a den 276 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: with a TV on the wall. But say media room, 277 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: it sounds so fancy. There's I know, it makes it 278 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: sound like you have some Bob by your screening room 279 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: and your nothing like that. You're like, it's not Disney, 280 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: but I have I have like two hundred and fifty 281 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: science fiction books from the seventies all around the walls, 282 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: and that was only part of my collection. I've read 283 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: every single one of those books. So I was a 284 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 1: huge to add to my nerd cred. I read all 285 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: of these science fiction books from when I was about 286 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: twelve to sixteen. I read hundreds and hundreds of science 287 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: fiction books. Yeah, I was. That's all I would do, 288 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 1: you know. I would just go home and I would 289 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: do my homework and I'd eat some yogurt and then 290 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: I just go in my room and I would read 291 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: science fiction for hours and hours and hours. God isn't 292 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: that so cool? Though? It's like you weren't on Instagram. 293 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: You were reading. Yeah, you were exploring worlds. Who who 294 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 1: would you say is your favorite science fiction author? Oh 295 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: that's a great question. Um, I have so many or 296 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 1: maybe five. I won't do that to you. I can 297 00:16:55,280 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: never pick up five. I mean Isaac Asimov is rate 298 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: and Arthur C. Clark. Those are like the two kind 299 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,640 Speaker 1: of legends of the genre. I really liked this fantasy 300 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,880 Speaker 1: writer named Jack Vance who did a lot of more 301 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: fantastical stuff. I loved Michael Moorecock and he was more 302 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: kind of fantasy science fiction. Clifford Simac. He wrote a 303 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: lot of really great speculative fiction. Philip K. Dick, this 304 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: is one of the legends. Yeah, he did Blade Runner 305 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: and you know, a Man in the High Castle and 306 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: stuff like that. So cool. Wow. And did that stay 307 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: with you as you get into your teenage years, as 308 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: you move into the space of acting and storytelling. At sixteen, 309 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,920 Speaker 1: did you keep up a voracious reading habit? And then 310 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: then it was you know, when once you go into 311 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 1: the acting thing, then it's like reading plays and working 312 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: on scenes and stuff like that. So it's a very 313 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: different relationship to read. I kind of gave up on 314 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 1: science fiction and I but I read a lot of literature, 315 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: and I was going to be an English major in college, 316 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: and but I was always doing plays. And then I 317 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: just decided, fuck it, I'm gonna go for it and 318 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 1: try and be a professional actor. But I've always read 319 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, And I'm really grateful again, grateful 320 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: for those times. And it's hard from my son is fifteen, 321 00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: Like I see him with his phone and his computer 322 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: and the texting. Loves to just be texting his friends 323 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: and I text my friends, and I got it, but 324 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: it definitely distracts from time that he could be. He 325 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,040 Speaker 1: could be re really try and encourage him to read, 326 00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: and he reads a good amount read creating music, you know, 327 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:31,200 Speaker 1: being a creative person, and you know it's these phones. 328 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 1: The phone issues is really big. And I know that 329 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: you've spoken about it before and dealt with it before, 330 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 1: and it's one of the things we we One of 331 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: the conundrums we have at Soul Pancake as a media 332 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,960 Speaker 1: company is like most of our content is ingested on 333 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: phones and laptops, and and yet at the same time, 334 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: with this scourge of depression, of anxiety and suicide among 335 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: young people, these days. It's so much of it has 336 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,479 Speaker 1: to do with like we're desocialized. We don't have groups, 337 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:00,679 Speaker 1: and we're not connected, and we're just staring at my 338 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: tiny screens all the time. Do you think when you 339 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: talk about your company. Because one of the ways I 340 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:19,919 Speaker 1: feel about this is that, for better or worse, the 341 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: Internet is, social media is, and I feel like, personally, 342 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: I almost have a responsibility to show up and be 343 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: vulnerable in that space and and and talk about things 344 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,159 Speaker 1: that are really important and post content that really matters, 345 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: and talk about political issues and personal issues and creative thought. 346 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 1: And because in a way, I feel like if I 347 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: were to say I don't want to participate in this system, 348 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 1: then the system would just be left to people who 349 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: are I don't know, selling whatever they're selling and commenting 350 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 1: on reality TV and and not that any of that's bad, 351 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: but it can't be our whole world. And so I 352 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: feel like we almost have a response ability to show up. 353 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: Like when when Soul Pancake tweets are in my feed, 354 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: I'm always so relieved. You know, there are people who 355 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 1: am so happy to see in my Twitter feed because 356 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,160 Speaker 1: they brighten my day, right, and you guys have done 357 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: that with your company, and do you feel a little 358 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: bit of that, like you want to take up some 359 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: of that space with goodness? Yes. So that's a really 360 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 1: interesting conundrum. Is there's a couple of different facets to 361 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: the topic that you bring up. And again, like I 362 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: talked about, like soul Pancake, trying to make the bet 363 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:31,760 Speaker 1: world a better place through media. So we're trying to 364 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: make uplifting content, inspiring, content that binds people, that tackles 365 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 1: big human questions and issues that you know, elicits hopefully 366 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: some some action and changes of thought. And yet so 367 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: much of what's broken in the world is media and 368 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: social media and the fact that we have these this 369 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: addictive little relationship with our phones. We're just staring into 370 00:20:55,200 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: these little black rectangles all day long. But are you 371 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: gonna do You're gonna ignore that it's here to stay 372 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 1: and our phones are incredibly helpful. I mean, the navigation 373 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: system in my phone got me here today and I 374 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,800 Speaker 1: was able to make some business calls and and send 375 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,959 Speaker 1: some texts and not while driving. So the phones are 376 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: here to stay, as social media is here to stay. 377 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: How can we as a species learn to have a healthy, 378 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: a moderate relationship with them? And how do you And 379 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:27,960 Speaker 1: then the second question is like how do you and me, 380 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: who have some social following and people know who we 381 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: are as TV celebrities, Like, how do we impact the 382 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: world and do do what we can with what we got? 383 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: So I have a lot of Dwight fans out there, 384 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 1: so what can I do? How can I really truly 385 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: make an impact? So, you know, I do philanthropy. I 386 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: founded Soul Pancake, and so Pancake now works with participant media, 387 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: doing some work with them, trying to make the world 388 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 1: a better place, trying to galvanize young people towards action. 389 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: And it's a it's a tricky thing, you know that, 390 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: it's the tricky thing that balance one of the things 391 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: that I've gotten more into these days. And I'm on 392 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: the advisory board of a nonprofit that has to do 393 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: with climate change, and I kind of feel like, well, 394 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's millions of d White fans out there 395 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: on my Twitter feed and Instagram and stuff like that, 396 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: and a lot of them are pretty lost about climate change. 397 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: They don't know what to think or what to look 398 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: at or what to do about it. It feels overwhelming, 399 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: it's depressing. And and then some of them might even 400 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: be hearing from their parents or their uncles like, oh, 401 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: it's a hoax, I'm the liberals, and uh, you know, 402 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and they're kind of ignoring the science 403 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: or not getting into the science. So I'm trying to 404 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: do something around climate change. You're doing the same thing, 405 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,239 Speaker 1: like we do what we can. And I wish that 406 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 1: more public figures would do more with their platforms to 407 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: move the needle in a positive direction. And that doesn't 408 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: just mean about yelling at people about Trump, you know, 409 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: it doesn't just mean like what an asshole he is 410 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,359 Speaker 1: and and kind of shout the kind of shouting but like, Okay, 411 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: that's that's all fine. You can do that, I suppose, 412 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: But are you also creating positive, positive movement? Are you 413 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 1: also building something It's easy to just protest and comment 414 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 1: and shout, it's easy to do that, but are you 415 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: actually making something that makes the world a better place? 416 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: That's a lot harder to do. There's a lot of 417 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: Twitter keyboard warriors, and I'm really not about that. I 418 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: like that a lot. I think about it when you 419 00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:34,680 Speaker 1: talk about the opportunity that we have when you've made 420 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: something and you do have the ability to converse with 421 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: millions of people every day. I think about operating my 422 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: platforms as a way to spend my privilege. It is 423 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: a privilege to converse with all those people. And if 424 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: I'm not spending it, if I'm not willing to put 425 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: my neck out there, if I'm not willing to risk 426 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: being unpopular to fight for what's right and show up 427 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: for people we need to be show it up for, 428 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: then I don't know why I have the privilege in 429 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: the first place. And that that you know, that's for me, 430 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: that's it seems to be for you. I don't expect 431 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: everyone to have the same feeling about it, but I 432 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: do really think we owe we owe it to our community, 433 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,159 Speaker 1: are big digital community, to show up for them in 434 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: real ways. Now for me, because I'm a member of 435 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: the High Faith and a person of faith, to me, 436 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: I look at it from a God perspective, but you 437 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: certainly don't have to, because I feel like God gave 438 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,359 Speaker 1: me certain talents and faculties and it's my privilege to 439 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: put those two use. So this geeky science fiction reading 440 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: kid becomes an actor playing these weirdos, and all of 441 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: a sudden I stumble into the greatest weirdo role that's 442 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: been on American television in decades and I get to 443 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: play Dwight Shrut And then all of a sudden, I 444 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 1: have an audience. So this geeky kid has has a 445 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: large audience. So it's it's up to me to utilize 446 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 1: God's gifts that I was given in my body, mind 447 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: and spirit to entertain, to tell stories, and to to 448 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: maximize my talents to become the very best actor I 449 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: can possibly try and be. And now that I have 450 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 1: this celebrity platform, like, how do I put that to 451 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: the best possible use? And that really was the founding 452 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: of soul Pancake where because you would ask on the 453 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: elevator ride up here about soul Pancake. And you know, 454 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: when I saw that The Office was going to be 455 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: on the air for a long period of time, all 456 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, I knew, because you know what it's like, 457 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: you never know if you're gonna have any income as 458 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,919 Speaker 1: an actor, and all of a sudden, I was like, oh, 459 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 1: I've got five years of paychecks in my future. I'm 460 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: gonna be on a hit show. And this was like 461 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: early on in season two of the Office, like I 462 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 1: get an opportunity. I have an opportunity now to do something, 463 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,679 Speaker 1: to say something, to make a mark. So I got 464 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,720 Speaker 1: together with a bunch of buddies and we built Soul Pancake. 465 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: It started as a website and then became kind of 466 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,919 Speaker 1: a social media digital media company, YouTube channel and and whatnot. 467 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: And at the time ten years ago, there was not 468 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: a lot of like positive media. It was before Upworthy 469 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: existed and some of those other companies, and so we 470 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 1: were like, let's try and steer the ship of media 471 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,080 Speaker 1: and social media just one or two degrees toward goodness, 472 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: towards impact, towards connection, towards inspiration. And so we were 473 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: really at the cutting edge of that of that movement, 474 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: and we see the impact that that has made. So 475 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: I was just trying to take what I was given 476 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,320 Speaker 1: and then put it to the best possible use. And 477 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: in the case of so, you know, there's a lot 478 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: of the things I've tried that have failed, but so 479 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:42,880 Speaker 1: Pancake worked out pretty well, and as you know, has 480 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,680 Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of fans and viewers and and has 481 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: uh and helped people's lives. So I'm lucky, and it's 482 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: great because it was one of those things that I 483 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:54,719 Speaker 1: take all the credit for it, but I didn't do 484 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: the work. So I had this team of people like 485 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: putting in the sixty seventy hours of work on it, 486 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, and mean while it's like Rain Wilson's Soul 487 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,680 Speaker 1: Pancake Company did X, Y and Z, so um, Well, 488 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: I just again, I just took the credit. Well, it 489 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,680 Speaker 1: takes so many people for things like that. I think 490 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: about it. Even in terms of when we make TV shows. 491 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: People know the cast, right, maybe seven to ten people 492 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: and people behind yes, and I'm constantly talking about the crew. 493 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: It's a hundred and fifty to two hundred people on 494 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,960 Speaker 1: the other side of those camera lenses who are making 495 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: everything happen with us. We're such a team. And yeah, 496 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm so grateful for every single person 497 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,680 Speaker 1: who contributes to a piece of creativity, making it to 498 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: air or to the internet. You know, it does really 499 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: take a village. I would love to go back, because 500 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: you mentioned it in telling that story, and we've touched 501 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: on it a couple of times when you talk about 502 00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: your faith. I so enjoyed our our metaphysical milkshake conversation 503 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: because we really got into the idea of it, and 504 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 1: and for listeners at home who hear you say I'm 505 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 1: a member of the Behigh Faith and go, huh, can 506 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: you can you walk us through what that means? Sure? Um. 507 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: It's always a tricky conversation because the behind faith is very, 508 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,639 Speaker 1: very nuanced and complex, with a rich history of several 509 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,919 Speaker 1: hundred years and tons of social teachings and mystical writings 510 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: and teachings, and you know, a worldwide be High community 511 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:39,520 Speaker 1: of five or six million people. It's very hard to 512 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: sum it up in a thumbnail, but I will say 513 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: that it's a worldwide religion. It's the second most widespread 514 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: religion in the world, so it's in every country in 515 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: the world, but the numbers are small, so next to Christianity, 516 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: it's the most widespread. Its started around a hundred eighty 517 00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: years ago in what is now Iran was then called Persia, 518 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: and a Persian nobleman who went by the title who 519 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: was given the title Bahoolah, whose name means the Glory 520 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: of God bhies our followers of how Allah, who we 521 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: believe is a divine teacher for this day and age, 522 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: who brought a message of like all the great divine 523 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:22,000 Speaker 1: teachers of love, and unity and harmony and acceptance and 524 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: diversity and inclusion. But one of the main things that 525 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: Bahaullah taught is that that he is the most recent 526 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: in a long line of these divine teachers. That there's 527 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: only one God, and that this God educates humanity spiritually 528 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: by sending down this kind of list of divine teachers. 529 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you go through elementary school. 530 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: You have your kindergarten teacher, your first grade teacher, etcetera, etcetera. 531 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: Now your second grade teacher knows just as much as 532 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: your sixth grade teacher, but they're not choosing to reveal 533 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: everything to you because you're not ready yet. So these 534 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 1: spiritual teachers like Shna, the Buddha, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohammed, 535 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 1: they're gradually unfolding God's divine revelation to humanity. So there 536 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 1: is only one religion. There's what behinds believe. There is only, 537 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 1: in actuality, one religion. It may look like you look 538 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 1: out there and wait a minute, there's a dozen different 539 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: religions and they all believe really vastly different things. But 540 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: there is only one gradually unfolding religion of God, and 541 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: it's essential message when you look at the primal message 542 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: of Krishna or the Buddha, or Jesus or Mohammed, it's 543 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,959 Speaker 1: the same. It's love one another, gift service to one another. 544 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: This physical world is is fleeting. We are we are 545 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: spiritual beings inhabiting bodies. You know, there's some universal truths 546 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: that run through all of these religious faiths. So that's 547 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: that's essentially what Bahads do. So as a Bhai, I 548 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: believe in the Bible and in Jesus and in Mohammed 549 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: and the Kuran, but I also follow the teachings of Baha'ullah. 550 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: Many of his teachings are very socially progressive, teachings about 551 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 1: eliminating prejudice and the equality of women and men, and 552 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: eliminating extremes of wealth and poverty and doing a lot 553 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: of social good and stuff like that. And as you 554 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: explain all of that, it does strike me as essentially 555 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: everything every religion says in its own way. You know, 556 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: these ideas that were meant to be good to each other, 557 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,520 Speaker 1: were meant to provide for each other. We're meant to 558 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: lift each other up, We're meant to lead with love. 559 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,959 Speaker 1: And I think that's what set me on my own 560 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: exploration of faith because I grew up with I grew 561 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: up in a family where I have a parent who's 562 00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: was raised Catholic, a parent who is Agnostic, and then 563 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,239 Speaker 1: my aunt and uncle who are Jewish. I grew up 564 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: celebrating Christmas and going to synagogue on every high holiday. 565 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: I I was always sort of fascinated by why there 566 00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: was an argument, and I remember it as a kid, 567 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: not being able to fathom how the Holocaust could have happened, 568 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 1: how we as a people could have demonized a group 569 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: of people among us for their religion, and then learning 570 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: that this happens, you know, as to your point, As 571 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: you get older, every grade, you learn that there have 572 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: been more and more of these wars, whether it's you know, 573 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: ethnic cleansing in the Congo or or Vietnam or darfour. 574 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: And it's so crazy to me that we do this 575 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 1: to each other when we really all believe the through 576 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: line of what we all believe is essentially the same. 577 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: And I was really fortunate, like you to to have 578 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: a school with such access to arts and such access 579 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: to so many different ideas. And I took an Islamic 580 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: studies course my senior year in high school wanting to 581 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: or maybe it was my junior year. It's been so long, 582 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: I don't remember. That's embarrassing, um to sign you're getting 583 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:56,760 Speaker 1: old when you're like, how old was I? When? Uh? 584 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,240 Speaker 1: And and I remember just really falling in love with 585 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: my studies of the Koran and then seeing just a 586 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: few years later in college when eleven happened, how an 587 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: entire group of faith was demononymous rather than rather than 588 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,239 Speaker 1: a group of extremist terrorists being examined, rather than us 589 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: studying the roots of terrorism, rather than a couple hundred 590 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: or a couple of thousand people in a religion that 591 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: incorporates a billion and a half people on the planet, 592 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: rather than you know, these bad apples within a beautiful 593 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: faith system perpetrating this violence. Well, and anyone who's willing 594 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: to bastardize a faith or in ideology. And it struck 595 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: me that, you know, not to take it too dark, 596 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 1: but I remember Oklahoma City and thinking, well, why didn't 597 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: that person, Why why haven't people who look like you 598 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: and I have committed terrorist atrocities? Somehow by doing those 599 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: things damned their entire group of people. You know, the 600 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the stay Wards are not the same right wing extremists 601 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: are a far greater terrorist threat to the United States 602 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: than than Islamic terrorists. And the FBI has been saying 603 00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: that for years. I mean, there are there are factual 604 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: studies that prove exactly that. Look at the numbers, and 605 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: we and we and we don't acknowledge it. And it's 606 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: again so strange to me to sort of bring it 607 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 1: back around that any person could justify, quote faith being 608 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: their reason for harming another person when the three line 609 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: is supposed to be care for each other. Yeah, this 610 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: is and this is why bihines believe that religion and 611 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 1: which is a dirty word these days, all of these 612 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: central concepts of you talk about, like religion, faith, spirituality, 613 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: God have all been kind of become dirty words. Like 614 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: religion in the best sense needs kind of refreshing because 615 00:34:54,960 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 1: like Christianity, for instance, became a Christianity odd the enough 616 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,759 Speaker 1: the teachings of Christianity were warped to become tools of oppression, 617 00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 1: where it's like, oh, if Native Americans and and Africans 618 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: were deemed not as human, then we didn't need to 619 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: love our neighbor because they're not human. There part animal 620 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 1: or whatever. We get to take the land away from 621 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: the Native Americans and we didn't. Then we import slave 622 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: labor from Africa to actually do our work. So we're 623 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: working stolen work on stolen land. And it was all 624 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 1: justified by the Church. But when you go back to 625 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 1: what Jesus said, it's so pure and so loving, and 626 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: it's serving the poor and serving the the you know, 627 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,879 Speaker 1: a diverse group of people. You know, you hey, hung 628 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,040 Speaker 1: out with people of different races and tribes and and 629 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: whars and and addicts and poor and the poor and 630 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,879 Speaker 1: just served them. It has gotten so far away from 631 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: its roots when you think about now. I'm not trying 632 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: to judge or damn all Christians, of course not. There's 633 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 1: I've seen so many great works being done throughout the world. 634 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: And have I traveled you know, the third the developing 635 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 1: nations and see the work that's being done by so 636 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: many of them Christians emulating the great work of Jesus Christ. 637 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: But this is why religion needs to be refreshed, to 638 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: go back to those basics. Have you ever read Religion 639 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,560 Speaker 1: for Atheists? Ellen? Oh? No, but I know I know 640 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,160 Speaker 1: his work and in fact, Ellen de Baton started a 641 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: school for school of life so good, and you know 642 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 1: what his inspiration for School of Life was. Stop. So wait, 643 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: does that give you the chills? I mean, you've known 644 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:40,240 Speaker 1: for longer than I have. I just found out this second. 645 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: But yeah, it was. I won't say it's a singular inspiration, 646 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: but it was one of his inspirations of what Soul 647 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 1: panc Ache was doing, you know, uniting people around ideas, uplifting, 648 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,400 Speaker 1: not getting in the same old tired political arguments and sniping. 649 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: He comes from an atheist perspective, but I love his 650 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: His atheist perspective is really is really beautiful and accepting 651 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: and inclusive. He's not like condemning people that believe in 652 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 1: God all um. He's really more of an agnostic. Just 653 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,799 Speaker 1: I love his his stuff. I have not read that. 654 00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 1: His perspective to me almost feels like a bird's eye 655 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: view looking over all the religions and just saying, hey, 656 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 1: don't you see all this stuff up here that's true 657 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,000 Speaker 1: for all of us, that doesn't even have to do 658 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,800 Speaker 1: with whatever specific thing you believe. And it's a really 659 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: fascinating book. And he posits that so much of what 660 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,120 Speaker 1: we under, what we know to come from religion, you know, 661 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: systems of gathering, systems of service. All these things existed 662 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: so far before modern religion, and that modern religions adopted 663 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: sort of societal behaviors of of pagan communities and of 664 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: tribal communities, and that we should take those things back, 665 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: no matter what religion we are, or if you don't 666 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: have one at all, that they that they really are 667 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: the foundations of how we coexist together, and that they're 668 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,479 Speaker 1: bigger than any And I think about I think about 669 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,560 Speaker 1: that on the grandest possible scale. And I when I 670 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: see cave paintings and I think about what must have 671 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,600 Speaker 1: the cavemen are caveman ancestors from you know, fifty thousand 672 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,960 Speaker 1: years ago, a hundred thousand years ago. You know what 673 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:22,960 Speaker 1: was that like? Where again, art, culture, religion all blended seamlessly. 674 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 1: So the story of the hunt, the mythology of our 675 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 1: people and our tribe, the shaman who is part entertainer, 676 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: he's part part Sasha Baron Cohen, part clown, part priest 677 00:38:37,560 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 1: and revelator, and also keeper of the flame of mythology 678 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: and bringing people together in this cave, in this tribe, 679 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:49,360 Speaker 1: and of course that tribe was fighting another tribe and 680 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: fighting another tribe. But I think de Bhutan is exactly right, 681 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,839 Speaker 1: which is were taking the bird's eye view. We now 682 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,640 Speaker 1: need to do this with humanity because now it is 683 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 1: very clear. Ever since we into the moon and we 684 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 1: looked back on planet Earth and it's a shining blue 685 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: marble down below that as soon as we saw that, 686 00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 1: we saw, oh, we are seven billion people sharing a 687 00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:14,879 Speaker 1: planet in outer space. So what does what does this mean? 688 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:19,360 Speaker 1: That we're humanity? Where different skin colors, where different genders, 689 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,160 Speaker 1: were different sexual orientations, were different cultures and tribes, but 690 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 1: we're one tribe where a human species sharing a planet. 691 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: How what's what's our equivalent of being gathered in that 692 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: cave to talk about the day's hunt, to share together, 693 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,200 Speaker 1: to sing songs, to share our mythology, to celebrate our 694 00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: differences and celebrate our similarities and anyways, that that's where 695 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,439 Speaker 1: humanity needs to head. We have to head or we'll 696 00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:50,920 Speaker 1: just die. How do you do that? How do you 697 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 1: how do you gather? What's your cave? Well? This is 698 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:59,320 Speaker 1: for me again, like I feel almost embarrassed about talking 699 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,719 Speaker 1: about this, and and I shouldn't, I should own it. 700 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 1: But for me, that's what religion can do. Religion people's 701 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: young people see as like obsolete and a force for 702 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,040 Speaker 1: evil in the world. And religion has to do with 703 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:22,840 Speaker 1: judgment and you know, separating people and Andrea. But religion, literally, 704 00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:26,439 Speaker 1: the word religion has at its root re legio, which 705 00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: means to rebind, to connect people. So what young people 706 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: who are staring at their shiny black rectangles in their 707 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: pockets all day long, what we need is religion. And 708 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like a specific religion. I'm not saying, oh, 709 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: you should become a High or you should become a 710 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 1: Muslim or Christian or whatever like that. But what we 711 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: need is to rebind. We need to reconnect the the 712 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: suicides and anxieties and depression that young people are suffering from, 713 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: and absolutely epidemic proportion. I mean it is, the statistics 714 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 1: are mind boggling. What we need is to rebind together 715 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,920 Speaker 1: as a human species and to connect. So for me personally, 716 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: I feel like the High Faith provides that not only 717 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: for me, but for humanity and for other people. So 718 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: I'm very involved in in in those activities. And and 719 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't just me. I mean it can be praying together, 720 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,680 Speaker 1: it can be worshiping together, it can be serving together, 721 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: it can be fighting for social justice. Together too, which 722 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: is a spiritual act I believe. It's not. Spirituality is 723 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 1: not just something you do in a yoga studio. You know, 724 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: when the right incense is burning and you feel the 725 00:41:37,040 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 1: right kind of tingles in your chest. It it has 726 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: to be to trying to serve the poorest among us 727 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,400 Speaker 1: and to uplift people, to to unite people and stuff 728 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: like that. So that's my focus. It's not yours, doesn't 729 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:51,800 Speaker 1: need to be yours, and we need to be the 730 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 1: various listeners. But that's that's the goal. Is um, let's 731 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,399 Speaker 1: let's be in rooms together, let's be outdoors together, Let's 732 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: see each other's eyeballs and connect and and sing and 733 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: make art. And I'm sounding like just the most grandiose hippie, right, 734 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: That's what it's all about. I get very excited talking 735 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,920 Speaker 1: about that. And that's what it's what humanity, what humanity needs, 736 00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 1: certainly what America needs. I'm not quite sure why this 737 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: is the question that popped up in my brain as 738 00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: you talked about that. But you telling me about your 739 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: childhood and how you felt you were this this very 740 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: nerdy kid. You know, you you've describe yourself as an outcast, 741 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:39,959 Speaker 1: and you talk about how in your adulthood you play 742 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: these outcasts or these sort of unpopular or unexpected humans. 743 00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,400 Speaker 1: Do you think that your faith, the way that you 744 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: grew up with this belief in all people being divine, 745 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,839 Speaker 1: did that help you as a kid when you were 746 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: going through those awkward faith is because I know what 747 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,840 Speaker 1: it is to be a kid with my own awkward phase, 748 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: and I know how terrible kids are to each other. 749 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:09,640 Speaker 1: And I know that the bullying that you experienced or 750 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,560 Speaker 1: that I experienced is different from what kids go through 751 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: now to your point, now they're on phones. It's it's 752 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: cyber bullying. It's another thing. But did you have a 753 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: different perspective on whatever it was like for you as 754 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 1: a as a nerdy kid who was treated in whatever 755 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,200 Speaker 1: way you were because of this? Do you think? Well? 756 00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: I think what? Because I left the behind faith for 757 00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: a long time. So I I um, when I was 758 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 1: about twenty years old and living in New York and 759 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: trying to be an actor going in y U, I 760 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,279 Speaker 1: just decided I didn't want anything to do with morality. 761 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,040 Speaker 1: I didn't want anything to do with God. I didn't 762 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: want anything to do with the religion of my parents, 763 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, And so I really jettisoned everything having to 764 00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,200 Speaker 1: do with spirituality. And I don't want to say I 765 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,680 Speaker 1: lived like in total debauchery, and there was definitely some debauchery, 766 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,960 Speaker 1: But I just was an atheist, agnostic bohemian. I just 767 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,080 Speaker 1: wanted to be an artist in New York City and 768 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: I didn't want any part of of that. But I 769 00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: do think that when I look back on my childhood, 770 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: going to your question, the thing that being growing up 771 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,839 Speaker 1: behind gave me was a sense of the larger questions 772 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,200 Speaker 1: and the larger purpose. So from Sol Pancake, you know, 773 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 1: we have this podcast that you were on, Metaphysical Milkshake, 774 00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,040 Speaker 1: that I do with Reza Aslan, the great scholar and 775 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,239 Speaker 1: media presence, and it's about life's biggest possible questions. That's 776 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 1: what the podcast is about, and that's what we try 777 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 1: and explore it Sol Pancakes. So the science fiction and 778 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:43,279 Speaker 1: the nerdiness and the chess meeting, the acting, and and 779 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,000 Speaker 1: the behindh faith. For me, I feel like I'm really 780 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: grateful because it gave me a kind of you talked 781 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,520 Speaker 1: about a bird's eye view, but a big vision like 782 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,120 Speaker 1: I've always had, like a big vision of what can 783 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,960 Speaker 1: you man? What should What should I strive for? What 784 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: should my family strive for? What should humanity strive for? 785 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 1: What can the arts do? You know? What can the 786 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:10,719 Speaker 1: media do? How do we bring people together? I don't. 787 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I have answers or solutions or anything 788 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: like that. I'm, you know, stabbing in the dark on 789 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:18,239 Speaker 1: a lot of it. But I do think that it 790 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,200 Speaker 1: helped give that nerdy kid a vision, where if I 791 00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: didn't have that vision, that same nerdy kid might just be, 792 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, a computer programmer somewhere in 793 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: some basement or something. Not that there's anything wrong with 794 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: computer programmers and basements. They make the world run, But 795 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: I think I would my But you might have missed 796 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 1: your calling. Yeah, I might have missed my calling, and 797 00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: certainly kind of a greater scope or a greater purpose. 798 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: And that's another thing religion can give us, is purpose, 799 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: and it's one thing that people are missing. And again 800 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say religion, and what I mean by that 801 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: is like any kind of belief system that brings people 802 00:45:56,800 --> 00:46:00,719 Speaker 1: together and gives them meaning and set them on a path. 803 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: So I'm not trying to like convert people to be 804 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: high faith. It's not about that, but I do think 805 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: that that's what religion can do, is give you a 806 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: sense of purpose as what young people need. There's a 807 00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:18,359 Speaker 1: purposelessness out there that is that is really sad, you know. 808 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,280 Speaker 1: And with climate change and the current current political climate 809 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: and the isolation, you know, it's it's um you know, 810 00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: it's a recipe for a lot of anxiety. I am 811 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: curious about something you just mentioned. You talked about your 812 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,160 Speaker 1: time at n Way. You and you wound up in 813 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,960 Speaker 1: the graduate acting program there, and and I and I 814 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,720 Speaker 1: read you've said that it was the best possible place 815 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,839 Speaker 1: for you in the entire world. What was the experience 816 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:01,239 Speaker 1: of moving to New York from Chica? Go like, what 817 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 1: what was the village like in the mid eighties? What 818 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 1: was school like? Can you can you give us a 819 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,359 Speaker 1: little bit of that period of your life? Yeah, yeah, 820 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,360 Speaker 1: well that's uh. Thanks thanks for you. You're you're bringing 821 00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:16,440 Speaker 1: me back to those wonderful, those delicious parts of my youth. 822 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: I feel like old man, old man, grandpa theater. You're 823 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,440 Speaker 1: like back when I was a child. This is how 824 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,319 Speaker 1: it was. So I moved to New York in eighty 825 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 1: six when there were still subway tokens, you had to 826 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,200 Speaker 1: go to the booth and buy tokens to get in 827 00:47:30,239 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: the subway, and they were covered in spray paint. And 828 00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: this was like the crack epidemic was just starting to 829 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: take off. So crack was being sold all over. It 830 00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:43,880 Speaker 1: was a lot of It was a pretty dangerous place. 831 00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,520 Speaker 1: In fact, I lived in a lot of neighborhoods that 832 00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:49,680 Speaker 1: now are like so fancy, like Chelsea, and it was 833 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: crack was being sold up and down Eighth Avenue, you 834 00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:55,279 Speaker 1: know it was. But yeah, for a nerdy Seattle boy 835 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,480 Speaker 1: moving to New York City in the late eighties, it 836 00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 1: was it was pretty mind blowing. And why do I 837 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,480 Speaker 1: say it was like the best possible place for me, 838 00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:07,440 Speaker 1: Like because I was pretty successful as an actor in 839 00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:10,160 Speaker 1: college and I was getting like lead roles, and I 840 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,759 Speaker 1: was like, oh, maybe I could make this a profession. 841 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,920 Speaker 1: So I went out in Seattle and I started auditioning. 842 00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,480 Speaker 1: And I had gone from Chicago back to Seattle. I 843 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,080 Speaker 1: went to Boston for the while and then went back 844 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:26,760 Speaker 1: in Seattle. So I'm twenty something, I'm back in Seattle 845 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,280 Speaker 1: and I start auditioning and I'm like, whoa, I'm nowhere 846 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: near good enough to be landing roles even at small 847 00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:37,480 Speaker 1: Seattle theaters. So I auditioned for like American Buffalo at 848 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:41,600 Speaker 1: Seattle Rap and The Glass Menagerie at the Empty Space, 849 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: and like you know, these little theaters, and I was 850 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,840 Speaker 1: doing monologues and trying to and I was like, oh wow, 851 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm really grateful of this about myself, Like I 852 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,920 Speaker 1: know how good I am, Like I know my strengths, 853 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:55,600 Speaker 1: and I also and I think a lot of actors 854 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: don't have this ability. And I was like, I'm not 855 00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:01,279 Speaker 1: good enough. I don't have this skills. I Am not 856 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: going to be able to make it as a professional 857 00:49:02,960 --> 00:49:07,319 Speaker 1: actor right now. I need training. So I wanted to 858 00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: find the best possible training. And I was lucky enough 859 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: to get into n y u H grad program even 860 00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,560 Speaker 1: though I wasn't I hadn't finished undergrad. I ended up 861 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,759 Speaker 1: getting my b f A from there. And because it 862 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,240 Speaker 1: was three years of sixteen hours a day just working 863 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:25,080 Speaker 1: on being an actor and so voice and speech clowning, 864 00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,359 Speaker 1: We did circus class. It was you know, it was Shakespeare. 865 00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,000 Speaker 1: It was you know, scene study of course, and you know, 866 00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: running a lightboard and doing props backstage and just being 867 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:42,520 Speaker 1: in total immersion in the craft of creating characters and 868 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,120 Speaker 1: creating theater and storytelling and for three years and it 869 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,239 Speaker 1: was it was amazing. So it's body mind, spirit and 870 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,080 Speaker 1: uh and n y U still has that philosophy of 871 00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: you know, the purpose of the actor is greater than 872 00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 1: just to try and like get a job you know 873 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,719 Speaker 1: on C. S. I, Fresno or whatever. And it's more, 874 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:07,160 Speaker 1: it's more than that, Like it's that we have a 875 00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,480 Speaker 1: role to play as actors where storytellers were a vital 876 00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:14,600 Speaker 1: part of the conversation and to be daring in our 877 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,160 Speaker 1: work and stuff like that. Had a lot of great 878 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,160 Speaker 1: teachers and had a big impact on me. That's so cool. 879 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: And then your first theater job was in a Shakespeare play, right, 880 00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,920 Speaker 1: Shakespeare in the Park. I did to Shakespeare in the 881 00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 1: Parks right when I got out of school. I did 882 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:33,560 Speaker 1: a lot of Shakespeare for a long time. Um I did. 883 00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: Then I was in a touring company called the Acting Company. 884 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: Spent two and a half years on the road doing 885 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:43,120 Speaker 1: Shakespeare productions in high school auditoriums and in college theaters. 886 00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:47,320 Speaker 1: And my first role in that was playing the nurses 887 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:52,160 Speaker 1: assistant in Romeo and Juliet. So I started at the bottom. 888 00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,480 Speaker 1: I started at the bottom of the actor food chain. 889 00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:57,400 Speaker 1: It was Peter, the nurse's assistant for a year and 890 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,120 Speaker 1: a half on the road in Romeo and Juliet are 891 00:51:00,160 --> 00:51:03,720 Speaker 1: studying mercucio. I got to go on a handful of times, 892 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:06,520 Speaker 1: but traveled the country in a bus and truck, a 893 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:11,480 Speaker 1: stinky bus and playing in doing ten am matinees and 894 00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: high school cafeterias, doing Romeo and Juliet. Did you love it? 895 00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,440 Speaker 1: I loved it and hated it, but yeah, I mostly 896 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:21,279 Speaker 1: loved it, and I'm grateful for the for the experience. 897 00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,080 Speaker 1: And was it after that touring experience that you moved 898 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,440 Speaker 1: to l A? Yes, So I did that, and then 899 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,120 Speaker 1: I did a bunch more theater in New York for 900 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,200 Speaker 1: a few more years before I went to l A. 901 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: And I moved to l A about twenty years ago. 902 00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm very old, very young spirits or you will never age, 903 00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: you know. I just heard an interview with Clint Eastwood 904 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: and someone was talking about his favorite phrase, and it's 905 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:48,279 Speaker 1: don't let the old man in. And so they were like, 906 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,279 Speaker 1: They're like, how do you stay so young and so 907 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 1: vital and you do so much and you direct all 908 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:57,160 Speaker 1: these movies and play jazz and golf and travel the 909 00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: world and stuff like that. Whatever you think about Clint 910 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:02,760 Speaker 1: Eastwood and and he's like, you don't let the old 911 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: man in. So I'm fifty three. I want to not 912 00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: let the old man in. He's trying to get in, folks, 913 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,440 Speaker 1: he's trying to get in. Barricade that door into this pudgy, sad, 914 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:17,239 Speaker 1: middle aged body. But I don't want to let that 915 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:20,160 Speaker 1: old man in. Not welcome here. But okay, So you 916 00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,399 Speaker 1: go back to New York, you're doing theater. You come 917 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:26,759 Speaker 1: to l A. How does the office happen? And what 918 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,040 Speaker 1: do you think it is like when you audition for that? 919 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: Do you have any idea what's coming? Yeah, no, it's not, 920 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:34,880 Speaker 1: it's it's nothing fancy. I moved to l A and 921 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,480 Speaker 1: I started getting little jobs in in TV and film. 922 00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: The first two movies I did when I got here 923 00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:46,120 Speaker 1: were tiny rolls in Galaxy Quest and Almost Famous, and 924 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: that was in and then I did like House of 925 00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,600 Speaker 1: a Thousand Corpses, this horror movie where I got sawed 926 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:56,840 Speaker 1: in half and my bottom half of my torso was 927 00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: attached to a giant fish's tail and Rob's be Film. 928 00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: And then uh, I was unlike Charmed in a guest spot, 929 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,160 Speaker 1: and like C S I and a guest spot, and 930 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,520 Speaker 1: Law and Order a guest spot, and you know, just 931 00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:13,280 Speaker 1: kind of some pilots that didn't go and and blopping 932 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,040 Speaker 1: along and then um, you know, I think the story 933 00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:18,840 Speaker 1: that sums it up the best, and I kind of 934 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:23,440 Speaker 1: tell young actors this story is I I knew these 935 00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: casting agents that were really good to me and really 936 00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: super cool, Libby Goldstein and Junie Lowry Johnson, and they 937 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,799 Speaker 1: would bring me in for whatever they were casting at 938 00:53:33,800 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: the time. And they were doing the show called six 939 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: ft Under on HBO, and I really wanted to be 940 00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: on that show. I just loved the show so much. 941 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:43,959 Speaker 1: And I went in an audition for five different roles 942 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,240 Speaker 1: that I did not get, and I would small roles 943 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:51,799 Speaker 1: just three lines here, five lines there. And then I 944 00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:54,759 Speaker 1: auditioned for one of the small roles, tiny roles that 945 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,240 Speaker 1: I didn't get, and I saw in the call sheet 946 00:53:57,360 --> 00:53:59,919 Speaker 1: that there was this new character they were introducing named Arthur, 947 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,440 Speaker 1: who was going to have a big arc and he 948 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 1: was like described as like a Peter Seller's nerdy undertaker, 949 00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,880 Speaker 1: you know, apprentice undertaker, who was very odd and I 950 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,439 Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, I could so play that role. 951 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,360 Speaker 1: That's me I did. So I went to Libby and 952 00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:20,720 Speaker 1: I was like, hey, I see this on the breakdown. 953 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,719 Speaker 1: Is there any way I could audition for this role 954 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,839 Speaker 1: as well? And she was like, and this is how 955 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,640 Speaker 1: she talks, and this is not mocking, this is literally 956 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,680 Speaker 1: how she talks. She's like, oh my god, yeah, I 957 00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:35,000 Speaker 1: had thought about that. Uh let me check and see. 958 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: And she went in. She was like, I talked to 959 00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:41,160 Speaker 1: that direction. I said, yeah, fine, you can audition. So 960 00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:44,000 Speaker 1: I've just come back in an hour and look over 961 00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,400 Speaker 1: the sides and the lines and you can audition for it. 962 00:54:47,520 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: So I went off like I had an hour, looked 963 00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,400 Speaker 1: at the lines, memorized him as well as I could, 964 00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,239 Speaker 1: made some choices, came back in and and got the 965 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,520 Speaker 1: role of Arthur. So I did thirteen episodes on this 966 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: show six ft under on HB. That was and it 967 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,799 Speaker 1: was a very popular show at the time, and that's 968 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,840 Speaker 1: what got me the office. Essentially, I had auditioned for 969 00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,440 Speaker 1: DWIGHTE and and it was kind of the same thing 970 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:13,640 Speaker 1: I saw, Like I knew the English Office and I 971 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: knew that I could kick ass at this kind of 972 00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,640 Speaker 1: part but because of my success on this other show 973 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,200 Speaker 1: that opened the door. So for me, this show is 974 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:29,880 Speaker 1: a very valuable kind of spiritual lesson. It's like God 975 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: answers you yes, no or not yet and not. I 976 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,479 Speaker 1: am so grateful that I didn't get those little guest 977 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,720 Speaker 1: spots on six ft under with three lines or five lines, 978 00:55:43,080 --> 00:55:45,640 Speaker 1: because had I gotten one of those, I never could 979 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:47,839 Speaker 1: have played Arthur, which never would have opened the door 980 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,840 Speaker 1: to the office. Do you never know what the universe 981 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:52,839 Speaker 1: has in store for you and all the rejection could 982 00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: be leading up to a much bigger door opening in 983 00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: your future that What was your favorite thing about playing 984 00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:06,239 Speaker 1: I think, um, my favorite thing, well, there's too much 985 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:10,360 Speaker 1: to list. Um. I love playing a weirdo. I like 986 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,759 Speaker 1: doing the physical comedy. I always begged them to write 987 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,400 Speaker 1: me more like physical comedy and they would get. I 988 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:17,440 Speaker 1: get to do a lot of it from the clowning stuff, 989 00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 1: you know. I love doing physical comedy and that's some 990 00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: of them work I'm most proud of on it. And 991 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,279 Speaker 1: but really the collaborative spirit that Greg Daniels and and 992 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,879 Speaker 1: Steve Carrell you know, created on the set, where all 993 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,680 Speaker 1: ideas were welcome. You could improvise, make it your own. 994 00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:39,120 Speaker 1: We played together, you know, as a family on that set, 995 00:56:39,160 --> 00:56:41,760 Speaker 1: and it was Directors would come in and their jaws 996 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:47,360 Speaker 1: would drop. They couldn't believe how much love and openness 997 00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,359 Speaker 1: and collaboration existed on that set. It was not like 998 00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,840 Speaker 1: other TV sets which can, as you know, can be 999 00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:59,360 Speaker 1: very toxic environments and very closed and very hierarchical. You know, 1000 00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,799 Speaker 1: here's Greg Annuals running the show. He also created King 1001 00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:03,960 Speaker 1: in the Hill. He wrote on Seinfeld, he wrote on 1002 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,400 Speaker 1: Saturday a Live, he wrote on The Simpsons, like and 1003 00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:08,560 Speaker 1: you could just go to him and say like, hey, 1004 00:57:08,560 --> 00:57:11,719 Speaker 1: what about an idea? What about this? You know, like 1005 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,560 Speaker 1: I remember having the idea like Jim ordering Dwight gaydar, 1006 00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: you know, to see if it works on Oscar and 1007 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: if Oscar is gay, like literally like gaydar like a 1008 00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: mental detector. And Greg's like, oh, that's great, and he 1009 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: went had some writers right it up and wrote a scene. 1010 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,280 Speaker 1: That's just how we worked. So it was really, uh again, 1011 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:33,200 Speaker 1: so grateful to be a part of that kind of 1012 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:37,200 Speaker 1: collaborative experience. And what a lesson to that if you 1013 00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 1: value everyone, if you if you let everyone in the 1014 00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: room feel ownership over what they're making. What they're making 1015 00:57:45,080 --> 00:57:47,280 Speaker 1: becomes so incredible and they're and they're in it for 1016 00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,080 Speaker 1: the long haul too. And then you get, you know, 1017 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:52,400 Speaker 1: nine years of great workout of people because they're they're 1018 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:55,480 Speaker 1: a part of that, They're part of that process. Doesn't 1019 00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,400 Speaker 1: exist very much in the TV world, But boy was 1020 00:57:58,440 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 1: I lucky. I mean, come on, I love that. So 1021 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:08,960 Speaker 1: in the spirit of collaboration, you spoke about Reza. How 1022 00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,080 Speaker 1: did you guys come to work together? So, Reza Aslin 1023 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:17,400 Speaker 1: is a fiction writer, he's an author, he is a 1024 00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,720 Speaker 1: uh he is a religious he's a PhD and kind 1025 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:26,120 Speaker 1: of religious studies and as a scholar as well. He's 1026 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:29,440 Speaker 1: well known like pundit on news channels, and he had 1027 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,880 Speaker 1: his own show on CNN for a while called Believer. 1028 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:37,640 Speaker 1: And I met him through the grapevine and we always 1029 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 1: hit it off. We have a lot of similar ideas. 1030 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,120 Speaker 1: We have some some discrepancies, but we have some similar 1031 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:47,480 Speaker 1: ideas about art and faith and service and making the 1032 00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:51,240 Speaker 1: world a better place. And I was really I've loved 1033 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,800 Speaker 1: his especially his book Zealot, which is about kind of 1034 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:59,480 Speaker 1: a whole different way of looking at Jesus and and Christianity, 1035 00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:03,560 Speaker 1: as as an act of like social rebellion was really interesting, 1036 00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:07,360 Speaker 1: and like two years ago we had a breakfast and 1037 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,080 Speaker 1: we're just talking about all these ideas and like, we 1038 00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,680 Speaker 1: need to do a podcast together like this is we're 1039 00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 1: so in alignment, we're so deeply curious about the same stuff. 1040 00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:18,680 Speaker 1: And then there was a long process of developing it. 1041 00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,320 Speaker 1: What's it going to be, what are we going to 1042 00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:22,080 Speaker 1: call it, where are we going to do it, how's 1043 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:24,480 Speaker 1: it going to be organized? You know, there's so many 1044 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,560 Speaker 1: different things to consider when you're doing a podcast, and 1045 00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,840 Speaker 1: that's when we started Metaphysical Milkshake. It's so cool. I 1046 00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:34,880 Speaker 1: just love it and it's such an amazing partner piece 1047 00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:38,680 Speaker 1: to Soul Pancake. Yeah, I'm so excited and it's so yeah, 1048 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,040 Speaker 1: it's we're really excited to team with Soul Pancake on 1049 00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,400 Speaker 1: it because so Pancakes interested in the same things we're 1050 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,120 Speaker 1: interested in, big human questions, big universal stuff, you know, 1051 00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:54,160 Speaker 1: love and loneliness and work and service. And we just 1052 00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:56,880 Speaker 1: recently did one on memory. We have one coming out 1053 00:59:56,920 --> 01:00:02,600 Speaker 1: on you know, indigenous spiritual tradition. And my uncle is 1054 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,760 Speaker 1: a is a professor and his study he studies beauty 1055 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,600 Speaker 1: literally in the psychology of beauty. So we did an 1056 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:14,160 Speaker 1: episode on beauty, like both physical beauty, psychological beauty, moral beauty. 1057 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,680 Speaker 1: You know that? Do you know that people are wired 1058 01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,320 Speaker 1: to appreciate moral beauty, Like we're wired to appreciate good 1059 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:25,400 Speaker 1: moral acts and to see the beauty and those and 1060 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:30,840 Speaker 1: those acts. That's actually like a whole new school of psychology, 1061 01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,960 Speaker 1: realizing that we were drawn to the beautiful, not just 1062 01:00:35,040 --> 01:00:39,120 Speaker 1: the visual beautiful, but the psychological and moral and spiritual beautiful. 1063 01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:42,040 Speaker 1: So that's one of our episodes two. So I love it. 1064 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,040 Speaker 1: I love having those those conversations. So folks listening at 1065 01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:48,080 Speaker 1: home want to get started diving into your content if 1066 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:51,000 Speaker 1: they haven't yet, where should Yeah, well it's this, it's 1067 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:54,840 Speaker 1: this company called Luminary. Unfortunately have to subscribe. They're trying 1068 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:56,840 Speaker 1: to be kind of like the Netflix of podcasts, and 1069 01:00:56,840 --> 01:01:00,800 Speaker 1: you'll be like when binge so Gal there's a month 1070 01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: three eight dollars a month or however much it is 1071 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 1: making him on the free podcast, Thank you to show Bush. 1072 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:11,360 Speaker 1: Only because there's a lot of cool podcasts on Luminary. 1073 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,880 Speaker 1: You have to get the app. Russell Brands on their 1074 01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:17,640 Speaker 1: Trevor Noah, Lena Dunham there's a lot of great talkers 1075 01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:20,680 Speaker 1: and thinkers and stuff like that, and and that's where 1076 01:01:20,720 --> 01:01:24,720 Speaker 1: they find it Beta Physical Mook Shake. So my final 1077 01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:26,800 Speaker 1: question for you, which I do like to ask everyone 1078 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:29,640 Speaker 1: who comes on the podcast, as it is the title, 1079 01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:36,360 Speaker 1: how much? How much can you bench? One thirty? I'm 1080 01:01:36,400 --> 01:01:39,680 Speaker 1: not that strong. I mean, that's impressive. That's a whole human. 1081 01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:44,520 Speaker 1: That's a very light human. Well that's like a teenage girl. 1082 01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:51,919 Speaker 1: I don't know, teenage girl. Yeah. So I'm very glad 1083 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,280 Speaker 1: you answered that. It was my most pressing question. But 1084 01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:56,840 Speaker 1: my second most pressing question is, as it is the 1085 01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,320 Speaker 1: title of the podcast, when you hear the phrase work 1086 01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:03,840 Speaker 1: in progress, what comes to mind for you as being 1087 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,320 Speaker 1: a work in progress in your life? Wow? Great question, 1088 01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:13,560 Speaker 1: great title. Love that so much. You know, life is 1089 01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:18,160 Speaker 1: a precious gift. We talked about recently putting our having 1090 01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,800 Speaker 1: to put our dogs down because of cancer, and I 1091 01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:25,200 Speaker 1: have several friends who have recently been dealing with cancer. 1092 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:30,560 Speaker 1: And life is just so infinitely precious and very very short. 1093 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:35,440 Speaker 1: And what is my work in progress? Like? What next 1094 01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,320 Speaker 1: for me? You know? Like quite honestly, like I really 1095 01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:41,120 Speaker 1: love acting. I'm kind of like you, like I love 1096 01:02:41,160 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: acting but it's not everything that I am, and it's 1097 01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:49,040 Speaker 1: not really everything I want to do, you know? And 1098 01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:55,040 Speaker 1: so what next, dear universe? Can I put whatever qualities 1099 01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:57,840 Speaker 1: and attributes and skills that I have acquired to this point, 1100 01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:02,480 Speaker 1: what next to both fulfill myself but also be of 1101 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,880 Speaker 1: service to others? So am I? I may not have 1102 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:12,160 Speaker 1: yet found my highest calling? You know what next? I 1103 01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,720 Speaker 1: don't know what? Does it I mean just going and 1104 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,680 Speaker 1: serving poor people or doing education? Or does it mean 1105 01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,120 Speaker 1: making people laugh more? I don't know. So my work 1106 01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,280 Speaker 1: in progress is you know what? What? What next? Dear universe? 1107 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:30,040 Speaker 1: I feel like that would be such a good prompt 1108 01:03:31,640 --> 01:03:35,160 Speaker 1: for a journal in the morning. Have you asked yourself 1109 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 1: that question and seeing what comes out? That's a good idea. 1110 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,000 Speaker 1: I need to do that. I haven't. Okay, let's do that. 1111 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,560 Speaker 1: Feeling very inspired, excellent, Thank you so much for coming 1112 01:03:45,600 --> 01:03:48,480 Speaker 1: today and bringing all of your wisdom and humor, and 1113 01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,760 Speaker 1: oh thanks thanks for having me this is I really 1114 01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,800 Speaker 1: admire what you do and who you are. And you, 1115 01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,080 Speaker 1: like I said, you walk the walk. You don't just 1116 01:03:57,280 --> 01:03:59,560 Speaker 1: talk about it. You you are involved in so many 1117 01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:04,000 Speaker 1: great and it's I don't know how you have the time, 1118 01:04:04,080 --> 01:04:05,680 Speaker 1: the hours in the day to do what you do, 1119 01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:10,000 Speaker 1: but really exciting glad to be here. Thank you, Thank 1120 01:04:10,000 --> 01:04:17,480 Speaker 1: you so much. This show is executive produced by Me, 1121 01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,640 Speaker 1: Sophia Bush, and sim Sarna. Our supervising producer is Alison Bresnick. 1122 01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:27,240 Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Cate Linley, Our editor is Josh Wendish, 1123 01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 1: and our music was written by Jack Garrett and produced 1124 01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,720 Speaker 1: by Mark Foster. This show is brought to you by 1125 01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:34,560 Speaker 1: Brilliant Anatomy