Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside Territory foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: Sahadev Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We are your
Speaker 1: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick. Before we
Speaker 1: get into this show, let's take a quick moment to
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Speaker 2: Patrick.
Speaker 1: The Cubs had a draft last weekend, two days, twenty
Speaker 1: one selections for them over twenty rounds. They had that
Speaker 1: extra pick after Kyle Tucker signed with the Dodgers, and
Speaker 1: they took sixteen pitchers. This is not a shock. Dan
Speaker 1: Canterwitz kind of tipped their hand so to say. You know,
Speaker 1: he didn't flat out say they were going to do it,
Speaker 1: but if the opportunity arose He said they were looking
Speaker 1: to be more aggressive with selecting pitchers. They were working
Speaker 1: more directly with player development and Tyler Zambro, who has
Speaker 1: taken on a bigger role VP of pitching, and sixteen
Speaker 1: sixteen new arms are in the system. They're not all
Speaker 1: signed yet, so not official, but I believe they expect
Speaker 1: to sign the majority of these guys, the vast majority
Speaker 1: of the players they drafted. And number one pick twenty
Speaker 1: third overall, Cade townshend out of old miss right handed
Speaker 1: starter for them. That's their number one pick. New big
Speaker 1: arm added to the farm system, arguably the top arm
Speaker 1: in the system.
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, it was interesting to hear Cad you know,
Speaker 3: say be asked about his connections to your organization and
Speaker 3: he said.
Speaker 2: You know, he knew Ryan Rolson really well. And I
Speaker 2: thought that was.
Speaker 3: A good jumping off point in terms of trying to
Speaker 3: think about what the Cubs are doing with their pitching group.
Speaker 3: And so rosson a waiverclaim who bounced around this offseason,
Speaker 3: former first round pick of the Rockies where things didn't
Speaker 3: work out, needed a change of scenery, need to get healthy.
Speaker 3: That was probably the primary reason why he had bounced
Speaker 3: around that much. And it was a good timing because
Speaker 3: I was in Cincinnati, and you know, Ralson was talking
Speaker 3: off the field, and he's a really good talker. He's
Speaker 3: a thoughtful guy, very appreciative and you know, insightful because
Speaker 3: of his journey to get to this point. And yeah,
Speaker 3: he was a first round pick out.
Speaker 2: Of Old Miss.
Speaker 3: His wife, who had also gone to Old Miss, works
Speaker 3: with their athletic department.
Speaker 2: And sort of in the NIL space.
Speaker 3: And so he's gotten to no Townsend over the last
Speaker 3: two off seasons, you know, basically since he first stepped
Speaker 3: foot on campus as a student athlete. And you know,
Speaker 3: he said he obviously has big league stuff, but that
Speaker 3: he was very impressed by the way he went about it,
Speaker 3: how he would talk through the game. I'm assuming he's
Speaker 3: very up to date on all the bells and whistles
Speaker 3: you know in the Cubs tech department just kind of
Speaker 3: already speaks that language. And so Rolison, a guy who
Speaker 3: no one really paid attention to when the Cubs made
Speaker 3: that waiverclaim and is now like pitching the ninth inning
Speaker 3: for the Cubs at times, or pitching multiple innings in
Speaker 3: games they wind up winning, like at Dodger Stadium of
Speaker 3: all places, like He's an example of this system, and
Speaker 3: so he had been asking Zambro sort of on and
Speaker 3: off of like, do you think we got a shot
Speaker 3: at Townsend?
Speaker 2: You know, they're texting back and forth.
Speaker 3: Zambro did a zoom with Townsend in the final days
Speaker 3: before the draft, on top of what was a very
Speaker 3: good meeting with the Cubs at the Draft combine, and
Speaker 3: so this, I think you could speak to this od
Speaker 3: of is a should be a better form of synergy
Speaker 3: than maybe they've had in the past, or at least
Speaker 3: that's the hope.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think they've really incorporate rated player
Speaker 1: development and working hand in hand with Zambro and his
Speaker 1: pitching people. That I think that leads to that should
Speaker 1: lead to better results. I think it's a better process
Speaker 1: when you have the people that are going to be
Speaker 1: working with these guys and coming up with the development plan,
Speaker 1: helping identify what works best, what what traits they're looking for.
Speaker 1: This is something that you know teams have been doing
Speaker 1: for years. As far as you get the data, you
Speaker 1: get the high speed images, the high speed camera images,
Speaker 1: and you can kind of understand what what a pitcher
Speaker 1: can do, how can what pitches can you add what
Speaker 1: what can you incorporate into this picture's arsenal and feel
Speaker 1: strongly about it, just by the way a pitcher's arm moves.
Speaker 1: And they, you know, with all these selections, with many
Speaker 1: of these selections, they see they already have a development
Speaker 1: plan in place. You mentioned it with Townshend. He's very
Speaker 1: aware of all the tech and it seems like there's
Speaker 1: a good like plan in place. These guys trust like
Speaker 1: he's he's on board and he understands all the things
Speaker 1: that they want to do, and they already have a
Speaker 1: development plan in place. I'd expect him to, you know,
Speaker 1: as long as he's healthy to be the type of
Speaker 1: pitcher that could move quickly. That doesn't mean he's going
Speaker 1: to be on the opening day rotation next year or
Speaker 1: anything like that. I mean moving quickly is being ready
Speaker 1: by you know, twenty twenty eight. If he's ready late
Speaker 1: twenty twenty seven, that's a huge developmental win. But this
Speaker 1: is a guy that you know, he's he's smaller in
Speaker 1: the sense like he's six', one but they like he
Speaker 1: holds his velocity deep into. Games is he a five
Speaker 1: to six inning? Guy can go seven? Eight we'll, see,
Speaker 1: Uh but he's got a d, arsenal AND i think
Speaker 1: they believe they can add and refine, it add to
Speaker 1: it and refine. It it's a it's intriguing to kind
Speaker 1: of see them go so aggressive with pitching and And
Speaker 1: I'm i'm curious to see how player development goes right
Speaker 1: now when it comes to, pitching because it is different
Speaker 1: than it was even a year. Ago so they have
Speaker 1: a different and it's a different way of attacking, things
Speaker 1: and we'll see how it, goes because they certainly are
Speaker 1: much more optimistic as far as pitching goes than they
Speaker 1: had been. BEFORE i did not get a lot of
Speaker 1: great reports after last year's draft when it came to the.
Speaker 1: Pitchers not a lot of high. Upside there's you, know
Speaker 1: there's boomer bust potential with a lot of these. Guys
Speaker 1: but you, KNOW i Think townsend is someone that you,
Speaker 1: know consensus seems to be like this isn't like some
Speaker 1: crazy reach or this isn't a guy with low end.
Speaker 1: Stuff it was just like a you, know mid to
Speaker 1: back end rotation. Guy he's a mid to up you,
Speaker 1: know front of the rotation. Guy if all things. Click, Yeah,
Speaker 1: LOOK i.
Speaker 3: Mean Kate HORTON i think gives them a little more
Speaker 3: confidence or credibility in this.
Speaker 2: Area, Obviously Kate horton is now recovering from major.
Speaker 3: Surgery but how they were able to manage him last
Speaker 3: year and sort of take what they saw in flashes
Speaker 3: At oklahoma and kind of transport that to the major
Speaker 3: leagues is very. Impressive you, Know townsend pitch two years
Speaker 3: At Ole.
Speaker 2: Miss one year wasn't very.
Speaker 3: Good i'm not sure if he was like the best
Speaker 3: pure pitcher on his team for college this, season but
Speaker 3: he's doing it in THE sec for a College World
Speaker 3: series type of. Program they have all these various stakeholders
Speaker 3: now working together to give you, know pd just a
Speaker 3: little bit more raw material to work, With like instead
Speaker 3: of waiting for it not to work for The rockies
Speaker 3: first round pick this year and then waiting five years
Speaker 3: to get, Him, like what if you get him from the,
Speaker 3: START i can put him on a plan and see
Speaker 3: where it goes.
Speaker 1: Exactly all, Right let's take a break and talk a
Speaker 1: little bit more about some other intriguing arms that The cups. Drafted.
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Speaker 1: All, Right like we, said sixteen pitchers selected by The
Speaker 1: cubs over the last. WEEKEND i believe their second picture
Speaker 1: picked this was they went pitcher two bats and then another,
Speaker 1: Arm Carson. Yassa this guy's six foot Seven patrick just
Speaker 1: a giant of a man on the, mound very, athletic quick,
Speaker 1: arm and that's something that The cubs immediately believe they
Speaker 1: can work with as far as a developmental. Plan this
Speaker 1: is a guy who throws ninety six. ISH i believe
Speaker 1: he averages with his fastball, already and he's not using
Speaker 1: his lower half as efficiently as he. Can it sounds
Speaker 1: like it's a short, stride not much depth in the lower.
Speaker 1: Half they think with like working out their high performance
Speaker 1: team working with him and just teaching him how to
Speaker 1: use that part of his body, better they, can like
Speaker 1: they're very confident they can add multiple ticks and that
Speaker 1: by like spring, training this guy's going to be close,
Speaker 1: to if Not touchingle. Digits. Uh that's that's a big.
Speaker 1: DEAL I, mean these are the types of things That
Speaker 1: i'm talking about WHEN i, say like working with player
Speaker 1: development like you already. Have you're you're having zooms meetings
Speaker 1: with these guys and and talking about plans before you're even. Selected.
Speaker 1: Uh and and in figuring these things. Out and guys
Speaker 1: are you, know buying in on plans and saying, okay,
Speaker 1: YEAH i think that makes. Sense, uh that's that's the
Speaker 1: type of stuff that you, know that's what the best orgs.
Speaker 1: Do now we need TO i, mean these are. Plans
Speaker 1: so WHEN i say all this, stuff it's important to,
Speaker 1: remember like The cubs haven't done anything yet with these.
Speaker 1: GUYS i mean they've done little, things, uh you, know
Speaker 1: in workouts and and talk to them about, stuff but
Speaker 1: they haven't actually executed the plan as of. Yet so
Speaker 1: it's it's we want to you have to see them execute.
Speaker 1: It but this is a guy that comes from a high,
Speaker 1: slot has feel for his breaking, balls and they believe
Speaker 1: they can to add more ticks to it and that
Speaker 1: they can add to his. ARSENAL i think they want
Speaker 1: to add a sinker to this guy's pitching. Repertoire.
Speaker 3: YEAH i think with all these, guys you have to
Speaker 3: be open minded but. Realistic AND i like hearing sort
Speaker 3: of the how and why some of these selections were.
Speaker 3: Made and that particular PICTURE i believe was recommended by Ty,
Speaker 3: nichols The scout who had Recommended Kate. Horton he's you,
Speaker 3: know a long time experienced scout in The cubs, organization
Speaker 3: and you, KNOW i think he's someone you know that they.
Speaker 2: Listened.
Speaker 3: To definitely that the size jumped, out you, know like
Speaker 3: when you're on deadline sort of like piecing together some
Speaker 3: of the, stuff it's, like, oh that dude's six.' seven
Speaker 3: they're taking him in the, third round you know as
Speaker 3: a pure. Reliever play, LIKE yeah i think really what
Speaker 3: you're looking, for too is like what if this guy
Speaker 3: just like clicks for, you know one season or a
Speaker 3: post trade deadline in. Another season not, this Year but
Speaker 3: i'm just talking about down, The ROAD like, i think,
Speaker 3: you know to have sort of a realistic view of
Speaker 3: like this guy's, got stuff they've got, a plan and
Speaker 3: if you could just sort of capture something a few years.
Speaker 3: FROM now, i mean that's really what you're. Looking for
Speaker 3: scanning some of these, other names like what pops out.
Speaker 3: To you obviously you got to go read it On
Speaker 3: the athletic for more, thorough breakdown, but like what are
Speaker 3: two of the other takeaways or names that lit up?
Speaker 1: For, YOU yeah i MEAN the i think it was
Speaker 1: a fourth or Fifth Rounder dillian Mariano From northwestern state
Speaker 1: guy that's. LIKE skinny i think they had him in
Speaker 1: for a workout and he's like one, sixty five he's
Speaker 1: already throwing. NINETY five i think he's Over His northwestern.
Speaker 1: State career he jumped a bunch, of ticks and they
Speaker 1: still feel like there's more. In there get him on
Speaker 1: a weight, gaining plan weight, training plan and they believe
Speaker 1: they can add two three. Ticks there. Like that that's
Speaker 1: the type of stuff like immediately there's. A plan immediately,
Speaker 1: they're like this is how we're going to. Elevate this
Speaker 1: This Picture, isaac morton right. Handed pitcher this guy fell
Speaker 1: to the sixth round because he. WAS hurt i think he,
Speaker 1: YOU know i think he was looked at as a
Speaker 1: much much higher. Round pitcher University. OF minnesota i think
Speaker 1: he was pitching hurt for a. Little while so like
Speaker 1: he was holding ninety six for five six innings and,
Speaker 1: then suddenly, you know for a couple of starts there
Speaker 1: he was at ninety two and at first they were
Speaker 1: saying it. Was, fatigue no he was pitching with a significant.
Speaker 1: Injuries underground i'm not sure if he's underground. Surgery yet
Speaker 1: he either will or has. Underground surgery so he's out.
Speaker 1: Right now but they saw him as like the guy
Speaker 1: with the best sweeper in the in, the draft one
Speaker 1: of the best sweepers in. The, draft uh and and
Speaker 1: like a pretty. Nasty. Sinker uh they're they're they're dreaming
Speaker 1: on him and hoping when he gets healthy that he
Speaker 1: could be a pretty special. Uh pitcher uh, YOU know
Speaker 1: i wrote logan web is the dream with. More velocity,
Speaker 1: THEY LIKE i i wanna, YOU know i want to
Speaker 1: caveaut all. These things that's what, You, hear, like obviously these,
Speaker 1: are dreams these. Are hopes uh is? It? Possible sure is?
Speaker 1: It likely like you need to cave out? That way
Speaker 1: like this is just like these are the wild comps you,
Speaker 1: can get uh when when you're talking to people about.
Speaker 1: This stuff but they're they're excited about him and and
Speaker 1: think like once they get, Him, healthy uh but health
Speaker 1: is going to be, An issue like it's not the
Speaker 1: first time he's dealt, with injuries and and like if that's,
Speaker 1: the case then, you, know uh you just don't know
Speaker 1: when what what's gonna happen and what happens with these
Speaker 1: guys when injuries are. The case and then there's there's
Speaker 1: a kid that they drafted Out. OF clemson i thought this,
Speaker 1: Was Interesting AARON. Ariston vesvc so he Committed to georgia
Speaker 1: out of high school and as a two, way player
Speaker 1: or he was Committed to georgia as, a catcher and
Speaker 1: then in high school, like randomly like came on the
Speaker 1: mound like they needed pitching and he was throwing like. Ninety,
Speaker 1: five again they didn't really know what they had. With
Speaker 1: him so then he ended up Going to alabama as
Speaker 1: a two way player in two years only pitched like
Speaker 1: three or. Four innings Transferred to clemson where he was
Speaker 1: a reliever under thirty innings this past season in twenty,
Speaker 1: something appearances but he was touching ninety seven, basically. Fastball
Speaker 1: curveball but again what we're talking about with, developmental plans they,
Speaker 1: you know they're breaking down like how he throws and
Speaker 1: his arm path and and, the like, you know everything
Speaker 1: that he does with how, he moves and they're like
Speaker 1: we can, add this this and this and feel very
Speaker 1: confident about being to add. Those things and they have
Speaker 1: a plan for him to add. Multiple pitches like it's
Speaker 1: a barely any development any time with, you know tech
Speaker 1: and a real development plan working on, adding pitches. Pitch
Speaker 1: design he's not spent any time really doing that because
Speaker 1: he's been a two way player and just really spend
Speaker 1: time as a reliever this year and only worked with. Two,
Speaker 1: pitches uh that's kind of like a, you know we'll
Speaker 1: see what, happens there CAN they i think these are
Speaker 1: the types of things like if you believe that you
Speaker 1: can do these things and, you execute like that's quickly,
Speaker 1: proof that, you know pitching development has. Gotten better like
Speaker 1: if we're a year, from now if we're talking about, these, guys,
Speaker 1: like hey, you know four of these guys actually executed
Speaker 1: their plans and are now doing, Different things like that's
Speaker 1: that's when we start Talking, about okay they they they
Speaker 1: really did something with their with their. Pitching development it hasn't.
Speaker 1: Happened yet this is all talk right now and and
Speaker 1: and plans and and just you know what they're hoping.
Speaker 2: To do so, he's like but better this two way
Speaker 2: guy who. GOT draft.
Speaker 1: I THINK that i think that's we're safe in. SAYING
Speaker 1: that i think we should just go ahead. With That.
Speaker 1: UH uh i don't think he's going to be a,
Speaker 1: two WAY but i think they drafted him as a
Speaker 1: pitcher to, Be, clear okay, all right, uh okay, let's
Speaker 1: uh let's take a, quick break but talk a little
Speaker 1: bit about how this impacts the organization and and uh
Speaker 1: presently and in.
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Speaker 1: Patrick so an infusion of pitching talent into. The system,
Speaker 1: you know we'll see how good these. Guys are but,
Speaker 1: right Now the cubs feel really good about the talent
Speaker 1: they have and the talent they can work with in.
Speaker 1: Their system what does that mean for the? Trade, deadline
Speaker 1: no they're not going to trade a bunch of these
Speaker 1: guys this. Trade deadline, you know unless there's some big
Speaker 1: deal to. Be made. They can't first, of all they
Speaker 1: can't be trade. Traded for they could be they could
Speaker 1: be a player to be named later if you wanted
Speaker 1: to go. THAT route. I don't i don't think that's
Speaker 1: that's what this draft. Was. About uh but now do
Speaker 1: do other arms? Become available that's that's. The Question Uh
Speaker 1: Is jackson wiggins more? Available Suddenly If, KATE townsend i think,
Speaker 1: they'd argue Is the cubs probably feel like? He's better,
Speaker 1: Maybe SLIGHTLY but i Would Say jackson wiggins. Is available
Speaker 1: he could you could be had for, you know two
Speaker 1: months of a reliever or maybe even two months of.
Speaker 1: A starter but if you can get a big deal,
Speaker 1: in place they'd be willing to Part With jackson wiggins
Speaker 1: in the, you know a couple of weeks ago that
Speaker 1: may have not been. The case.
Speaker 3: It does give them, more options and we've seen they're
Speaker 3: not exactly shy about trading recent draft picks again getting
Speaker 3: beyond that SORT of cba mandated. Roster guidelines but how
Speaker 3: do You Get, kyle tucker how do You Get? DAVID
Speaker 3: peterson i think there was one other oh Was it soroco?
Speaker 2: Last, year.
Speaker 3: Anyways they've at the trade deadline in terms of using
Speaker 3: guys who were drafted in say whatever the years, are now,
Speaker 3: twenty three, twenty four, twenty five kind of in that
Speaker 3: time frame of being willing to move those for right.
Speaker 3: NOW help i think it's a. GOOD strategy, i think,
Speaker 3: you know you look at how hard it is to
Speaker 3: get to, the majors how long it, can take how
Speaker 3: long it before player feels comfortable and ready to perform
Speaker 3: at that label at. That level they're in this cycle
Speaker 3: now the window. Is open that is interesting to Hear
Speaker 3: about wiggins because he's sort of like the only pitching
Speaker 3: PROSPECT that i think gets real traction as sort of
Speaker 3: a maybe not, a headliner but like A one b
Speaker 3: sort of headliner in a deal like their pitching depth
Speaker 3: has been. Severely depleted now there are probably organizations that
Speaker 3: may See certain cubs pitching prospects and can run through
Speaker 3: the miles and have a similar plan what you were,
Speaker 3: Just discussing toad of just kind of on the other end, of,
Speaker 3: like oh if we get this, guy here give him
Speaker 3: this opportunity to make. This tweak there probably are some of,
Speaker 3: those guys but in terms of the like guys that
Speaker 3: really move the, lead needle it's Kind. Of wiggans that
Speaker 3: is interesting to hear That on, june first EVEN though
Speaker 3: i think he was still injured at, that point you
Speaker 3: maybe don't want to give. Him up but now he's last,
Speaker 3: we heard he's pitching in, the minors and they have
Speaker 3: a little more inventory on the minor.
Speaker 2: League side that does open.
Speaker 1: Things, Up yeah and if you're making a list of
Speaker 1: the cubs ten best, PITCHING prospects, i mean how many
Speaker 1: come from, This draft i'd say more. Than half that's
Speaker 1: that's an indictment of where the pitching was and also
Speaker 1: compliment to. THIS draft, i mean but when you draft
Speaker 1: in bulk, like this, you know you hope that it
Speaker 1: adds to your, you know high end talent or potentially high.
Speaker 1: End talent, SO yeah i think they're more willing. To,
Speaker 1: MOVE honestly i think anyone that was in the system
Speaker 1: pitching wise before this draft can be had in the.
Speaker 1: Right deal they're not giving. Anyone AWAY but i don't
Speaker 1: think there aren't any untouchables on the. Pitching, side probably
Speaker 1: like if, you know even on the position, player side
Speaker 1: you could make the argument that there aren't really. Any
Speaker 1: untouchables it would it would take a pretty big deal
Speaker 1: to get Someone Like jefferson Rojas Or, Josiah hardshorn but,
Speaker 1: you know or any of the big leaguers or formerly
Speaker 1: big Leaguers Like Biastero's, Matt Shaw, pedro ramirez These aren't
Speaker 1: they're not giving those guys away and likely aren't moving
Speaker 1: any of them. FOR rentals. I don't i don't THINK
Speaker 1: anyone i name just there would be moved. For rental so, you,
Speaker 1: know there it's a pretty available group as far as their,
Speaker 1: farm system and it's a system that's gotten much better
Speaker 1: over the course of. The season i'd say they were
Speaker 1: bottom ten and now middle ten as far as as
Speaker 1: far as the system goes from where they've, jumped in
Speaker 1: and maybe. The pitching if, you know some of these
Speaker 1: guys will probably pitch with that. They drafted some of
Speaker 1: them will pitch. This year some of them look. Really
Speaker 1: good maybe maybe it pushes them up up a little
Speaker 1: bit more as far as how good the. System is,
Speaker 1: but yeah they're definitely they definitely have more to work
Speaker 1: with and more willing to, move GUYS and i think.
Speaker 1: THAT matters i think that's a. Big DEAL.
Speaker 3: And, i mean these are guys you know you can
Speaker 3: work with during a lockout right of like they would
Speaker 3: not be on the forty, man roster yet you would
Speaker 3: still have be able to even if they don't go
Speaker 3: out and pitch, this summer you'd be able to put
Speaker 3: implement a comprehensive long.
Speaker 2: Range plan and.
Speaker 3: You know everyone says we take the. BEST available i
Speaker 3: think most of the time they. Mean it AND then
Speaker 3: i think there are certain circumstances where you just have
Speaker 3: to look at what you have and sort of, plan
Speaker 3: accordingly because all these are just like, educated guesses and
Speaker 3: getting that many pictures just gives you a better chance
Speaker 3: to have one or two, breakthrough eventually or a couple
Speaker 3: can stay healthy enough to be factors either as trade
Speaker 3: chips in a different, trading cycle or maybe.
Speaker 2: They do we've seen it.
Speaker 3: This year even if you're just able to be an
Speaker 3: up and down optionable reliever like that holds a ton
Speaker 3: of value in.
Speaker 1: Today's, game absolutely, all right we'll wrap it. Up there
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