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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Nolan.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben. We're joined as always with our

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Speaker 3: super producer Paul Mission Control Decat most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

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Speaker 3: want you to know. An episode long time and coming. Gentlemen,

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Speaker 3: this is a bit stuff they want you to know

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Speaker 3: and a bit ridiculous history. I guess because any student

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Speaker 3: of war can tell you a lot of stuff doesn't

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Speaker 3: make it off the drawing board. Remember all those episodes

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Speaker 3: we did on both shows about like wrapping bombs to

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Speaker 3: bats and using cats as spies.

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Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, no matter what weird stuff do you

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Speaker 4: throw at them, Ben, war, war never changes, right.

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Speaker 3: And that one time the US, absolutely in seriousness, said

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Speaker 3: I don't know what if there's like a bomb that

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Speaker 3: can make people gay, And they put money into this

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Speaker 3: ideation until eventually a voice of reason said, that's kind

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Speaker 3: of wild. I don't think it'll work.

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Speaker 4: Can you imagine if it did, how much happier everyone

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Speaker 4: would be, how much less conflict there would be. I mean, Jesus,

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Speaker 4: what an idea.

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Speaker 3: We see all these wild ideas, right, and the majority

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Speaker 3: of them, the rate of attrition is very high. They

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Speaker 3: don't make it off the drawing board. And so we

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Speaker 3: can look back at a lot of those things, and

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Speaker 3: with the benefit of retrospect, we can call them hilarious.

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Speaker 3: But when they do make it into real world deployment,

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Speaker 3: the result can be terrifying. And please, fellow conspiracy realist,

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Speaker 3: keep that last new in mind. Toward the end of

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Speaker 3: today's exploration.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be a weirdo here, guys, Bob,

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Speaker 2: I'm coming to this episode way more serious, Like this

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Speaker 2: is serious stuff we need to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, That's what I'm saying. Like, keep in mind, like

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Speaker 3: there's a reason we're talking about this, right.

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Speaker 2: God, I got it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, Sometimes the serious stuff you got a temper

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Speaker 4: with a little bit of lighthearted as lest we drive

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Speaker 4: ourselves insane with worry. Here are the.

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Speaker 3: Facts, you know, for most of its recent history, the

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Speaker 3: United States has been in a really weird adversarial relationship

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Speaker 3: with its nearby sovereign nation, Cuba. This wasn't always the case.

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Speaker 3: The US used to have a huge crush on Cuba,

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Speaker 3: and I would argue still sort of does, but it's

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Speaker 3: like an in cell level love hate thing.

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Speaker 2: Well back in the day, they loved the money. The

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Speaker 2: United States loved the money they can make off of

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Speaker 2: Cuba and Cubans.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Cuba is There's a reason Cuba is the largest

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Speaker 3: island in the entirety of the Caribbean. It's perfect for

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Speaker 3: cultivating historically profitable crops. One great quote to illustrate this founding,

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Speaker 3: Father Thomas Jefferson once called Cuba the most interesting addition

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Speaker 3: which could ever be made to our system of states.

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Speaker 3: But they couldn't get it. The Spanish controlled Cuba since

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Speaker 3: the days of Columbus geopolitical version of crushing on a

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Speaker 3: person who's already in a terrible relationship.

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Speaker 4: Wow. In eighteen ninety five, the United States joined forces

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Speaker 4: with Cuba to drive out Spain, and taking advantage of

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Speaker 4: this situation, the US transformed Cuba into essentially a vassal state,

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Speaker 4: and for the next sixty years, American influence in Cuban

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Speaker 4: politics and day to day life was massive. Yeah, obviously,

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Speaker 4: we know things changed after a time, but there was

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Speaker 4: a point where we essentially could kind of wheeld control

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Speaker 4: over the way things went down in Cuba. Americans controlled

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Speaker 4: more than forty percent of the sugar industry, fifty percent

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Speaker 4: of the railways, and ninety percent of telecom and you utilities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there was also a crap ton of black

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Speaker 2: market gambling and all kinds of underground stuff that was

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Speaker 2: run by let's say heavily American influenced mafia style groups.

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Speaker 3: The way they do show up later in tonight's episode,

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Speaker 3: and I think the way they're referred to is a

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Speaker 3: certain demographic of aristocratic businessmen in Miami.

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Speaker 2: We'll give me because it was a destination place for

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Speaker 2: wealthy people to go spend some money and do some

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Speaker 2: things they're not really supposed to do away from home.

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Speaker 3: A lot of trafficking as well, sex trafficking, drug trafficking,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. And most Cubans, most Cuban nationals in this

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Speaker 3: time were landless, We're poor, were oppressed. From the US perspective,

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Speaker 3: this is great in the US for a while, is

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Speaker 3: saying we get on fantastically with Cuba and then kind

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Speaker 3: of a one sided relationship.

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Speaker 4: Though I would argue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a.

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Speaker 2: Lot of people in the upper echelons of.

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Speaker 3: A certain demographic of aristocratic business been now relocated to

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Speaker 3: Miami and points abroad. Yeah, things don't go well for

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Speaker 3: the US because in nineteen fifty nine, reil up and

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Speaker 3: comer named Fidel Castro sees his power and the powers

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Speaker 3: that be previously, I guess we should say the powers

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Speaker 3: that were hated this Castro guy. He ruined this abusive relationship.

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Speaker 3: The US was making tons of money exploiting the Cuban

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Speaker 3: public and practicing resource extraction, and worse come to worse

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Speaker 3: for Uncle Sam. Along with Fidel Castro eventually comes the Soviets.

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Speaker 4: So in nineteen fifty nine, kind of riding high off

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Speaker 4: of the big win World War two, the Russians were

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Speaker 4: the number one threat to the United States dream of

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Speaker 4: kind of getting their arms around the entire globe edgemonically speaking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, peak cold war stuff.

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Speaker 4: Sorry. By the way, the big win for World War

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Speaker 4: two came from the United States, not from the Russians.

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Speaker 4: Open right, the convolution.

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Speaker 3: The Russians won. They paid a much higher toll, but

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Speaker 3: they won.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, the Allies were victorious. I suppose in that

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Speaker 2: but it is just we got to remember the atomic

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Speaker 2: bomb happened, you know, in between these years. This is,

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Speaker 2: as you said, been real Cold War stuff. The tensions

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Speaker 2: were crazy high, and the ideological solidification it was like

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Speaker 2: at its peak.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's define ideology in a way we quite

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Speaker 3: we haven't quite yet in the history of this show,

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Speaker 3: and for our purposes, this is the best definition. The

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Speaker 3: ideology of communism and the ideology of capitalism are conflicting

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Speaker 3: frameworks to justify control over an extraction of resources.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've always kind of wondered, like, what's the big

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Speaker 4: deal with communism? You know, like it seems so harmless,

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Speaker 4: you know, on the one handley as just a thing

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Speaker 4: you study and maybe learn a little bit about, and

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Speaker 4: then maybe you go to some meetings and the first

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Speaker 4: it is treated that way. But then before you know it,

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Speaker 4: it becomes this insidious threat that is in danger of

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Speaker 4: toppling the prevailing you know, mode of thought, and that

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Speaker 4: could essentially ruin everything. I don't know, like, do you

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Speaker 4: think it was there was a real worry there or

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Speaker 4: was it much to do much to do about nothing?

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Speaker 2: Kind of yes, in offices, right, and maybe individuals contemplating

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Speaker 2: alone like general's chiefs of staff of sitting alone on

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Speaker 2: either side, they're imagining, Oh, what happens if our thing

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Speaker 2: becomes not the thing? Because another way to think about

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Speaker 2: these ideological basis bases basis for like reasoning to have

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Speaker 2: a government. It makes me think about the individual reasoning

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Speaker 2: of a person of why am I a cog in

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Speaker 2: this specific economic machine? Why am I willingly a worker

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Speaker 2: that goes in forty hours a week and does my thing?

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Speaker 2: What is the greater good here that I'm a part of? Right?

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Speaker 2: And they're very opposed to each other.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, because it depends upon who, like your cognitive position.

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Speaker 3: The ideology depends upon what you see as gathering the

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Speaker 3: most resource resource advantages for you on a microcosmic scale.

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Speaker 2: Well is it for me?

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Speaker 4: Dilemma?

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Speaker 2: Is it for me? Or is it for the greater good?

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Speaker 2: And how do you picture those two things in your

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Speaker 2: own mind? Right?

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Speaker 3: People, I would argue you have an historic problem or

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Speaker 3: dilemma with that, which is, if this stuff is good

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Speaker 3: for me, it must mean the thing is great for everything.

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Speaker 3: That's right, That's how people are thinking.

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Speaker 2: Or am I satisfied with not having a bunch because

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Speaker 2: I feel like I'm doing it for the right reason,

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Speaker 2: right if you if you go through all of these things,

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Speaker 2: like if you're getting stamps to buy to get certain

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Speaker 2: amounts of food because you're own rations for whatever through

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Speaker 2: a state program, is that the same as getting more

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Speaker 2: money because I got a promotion?

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Speaker 4: I mean, but aren't people in communist societies also cogs

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Speaker 4: in a machine. It's just a different flavor of machine

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Speaker 4: that they sort of own a little bit, you know what.

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Speaker 4: One could argue you own the machine by virtue of

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Speaker 4: working for it. Like it's it's this ideological twist is

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Speaker 4: so fascinating to me.

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Speaker 3: If there were and I don't want to derail us

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Speaker 3: too far, but if there were uh functioning communist society

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Speaker 3: and modern history there never has been, the argument would

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Speaker 3: be very different.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, they quickly descend into autocracy and kleptocracy, which are

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Speaker 3: just fancy words for saying authoritarian governments and thieves.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I didn't say it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Well, like, what's been the functioning democracy that really works?

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I don't know, man, what is.

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Speaker 3: The difference between the current US government and a monarchy

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Speaker 3: or an aristocracy in all but name anyway? This is so,

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Speaker 3: this is important discourse for these folks. When Castro takes

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Speaker 3: power in fifty nine, they're freaking out. With the Cold War,

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Speaker 3: the world is growing smaller that for people in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty four maybe difficult to imagine the calculus here. So

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Speaker 3: think about like living in a small town. There's a

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Speaker 3: guy on the other side of the city and you

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Speaker 3: hate him. He's the worst, And all of a sudden,

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Speaker 3: he's living part time in another house. It's your neighbor's house,

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Speaker 3: and he's right over the fence. Castro vibed with the Soviets.

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Speaker 3: Cuba went communists. The US did a lot of dumb

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Speaker 3: stuff trying to oust the new Cuban government. They didn't

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Speaker 3: recognize it at all. They treated it as a regime

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Speaker 3: or an occupying force. And they, you know, they tried

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Speaker 3: to like drug his cigars. They tried, didn't They try

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Speaker 3: to like exploding.

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Speaker 4: Wasn't the dynamite explosives, I believe, like a rigged scuba suit.

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Speaker 3: They tried to assassinate his character, if not the man himself,

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Speaker 3: by piping in hallucinogens at one point and.

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Speaker 4: During a speech, so he like sounded like totally was

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Speaker 4: the word incompetent.

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Speaker 3: That was their idea. You know, they had the pigs

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Speaker 3: invasion spoiler didn't work.

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Speaker 2: From this was April seventeenth to the twentieth, nineteen sixty one,

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Speaker 2: so like right around this time as we're recording this

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Speaker 2: episode on the twenty second of April.

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Speaker 3: History is way closer than it looks in the rear

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Speaker 3: view mirror. I love that you're pointing that out. I

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Speaker 3: mean from that point from nineteen well, actually from like

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Speaker 3: nineteen forty eight to now, the US has always held

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Speaker 3: Cuba in a particular species of disdain, so much so

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Speaker 3: that various world powers in the international community have increasingly

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Speaker 3: been saying, hey, come on, man, come on, what's your deal.

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Speaker 2: Well, and nukes made that significantly more scary, right, just

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Speaker 2: the concept of nukes.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, the US was asking itself, you know, if

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Speaker 3: we're the world's most powerful country or company, good argument,

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Speaker 3: why do our enemies hang out next door? What happens

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Speaker 3: if they decide to lob some dangerous party favors over

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Speaker 3: our backyard fence?

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Speaker 4: This is Matt.

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Speaker 3: I think you're also referring in specific to the Cuban

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Speaker 3: missile crisis, when the US was convinced with serious validity

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Speaker 3: that the USSR would deploy nuclear weapons stationed in Cuba.

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Speaker 3: And at that point during the missile crisis, the US

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Speaker 3: had no way to prevent disaster. They had nothing that

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Speaker 3: could stop those missiles.

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Speaker 2: Uh yeah, And that is late October nineteen sixty two,

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Speaker 2: by the way, And if we're looking at timelines as

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Speaker 2: we get further, to keep that in mind, late in

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Speaker 2: the year nineteen sixty two, Cuban missile crisis.

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Speaker 3: And the Cuban Revolution did succeed. It's always struck me

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Speaker 3: as somewhat hypocritical in the larger frame that the US

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Speaker 3: itself was founded upon revolution and saw a revolution in

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Speaker 3: its own backyard and then got pissed that other people

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Speaker 3: were trying to do the same thing with just a

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Speaker 3: different flavor of ideology. So the US sought to cripple

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Speaker 3: this new government at the route. They failed, and with

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Speaker 3: every single failure, the American regime took a step closer

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Speaker 3: to extremism, and through that extremism, they reached conspiracy. And

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Speaker 3: this is why we're recording tonight. We're asking what was

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Speaker 3: Operation Northwoods, why should we remember it now, and what

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Speaker 3: does it mean for the future. We'll tell you after

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Speaker 3: a word from our sponsors. Let's all duck under our

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Speaker 3: public school desk. Here's where it gets crazy, Operation Northwoods

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Speaker 3: Soviet in its brutality. The question is would we sacrifice

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Speaker 3: innocent people then lie to the public about how those

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Speaker 3: people died all to launch a war that the US

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Speaker 3: public would ordinarily never support. Long story short, yeah, given

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Speaker 3: Fallout vibes, sorry, yes, without any spoilers.

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Speaker 4: Watch this show. By the way, even if you played

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Speaker 4: the game, it's such a it's excellent.

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Speaker 2: Bring that back up towards the end here, because I

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Speaker 2: want to have a discussion about fiduciary responsibility, which is

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Speaker 2: something that's brought up by one of the characters in Fallout.

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Speaker 3: Yep, agree, Okay, the US got and this is not

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Speaker 3: video game, this is real. The US got very close

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Speaker 3: to launching a comprehensive false flag campaign, sacrificing it so

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Speaker 3: in citizens to create what war nerds would call causes belly,

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Speaker 3: which is just a fancy term for an actor series

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Speaker 3: of events justifying a conflict, a hot conflict. The best

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Speaker 3: example of this probably the Gulf of Tonkin is a

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Speaker 3: great example, right, and you'll see a lot of people

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Speaker 3: arguing nine to eleven is another example. We do talk

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Speaker 3: about the Gulf of Tonkin at length in our book.

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Speaker 3: Check that out. The book about Northwoods is by a

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Speaker 3: guy named James Bamford. It's called Body of Secrets, an

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Speaker 3: intensely researched expos in the NSA, the National Security Agency,

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Speaker 3: and uh, mister b published this in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 4: Isn't it basically just like a manufactured pr moment that

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Speaker 4: allows them to make the argument because it sways public

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Speaker 4: support in such a way that there's no other choice

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Speaker 4: other than to wage the war they want to wage.

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Speaker 3: It can be that way. What they were talking about

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Speaker 3: is actually killing innocent people.

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Speaker 4: Right, but they're creative making it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the

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Speaker 4: moment that the engenders the support.

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Speaker 2: I think the great deal of the declassified memos that

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Speaker 2: we've been through are more about falsifying killing or falsifying

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Speaker 2: the deaths of American civilians or naval personnel or you know,

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Speaker 2: civilians in an aircraft, or making it look as though

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Speaker 2: Cuba has a attacked American citizens and military personnel, even

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Speaker 2: though they did not, and even though there were no

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Speaker 2: military or civilian personnel who died.

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Speaker 3: Right, however that was it was still all up for grabs,

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Speaker 3: this was a brainstorm thing. It was a memorandum. Uh.

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Speaker 3: They also were totally fine with killing innocent Cuban people

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Speaker 3: and not making them up. That's what I mean when

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Speaker 3: I'm saying real people as.

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Speaker 4: Collateral damage, right, I mean, it's not quite to the

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Speaker 4: level of sci fi malevolence of like murdering your own

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Speaker 4: people to create so saying the other guys did it

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Speaker 4: so you could go in and have your way, But

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Speaker 4: it's also not that far from that.

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Speaker 3: They also said they would do.

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Speaker 2: That, yeah, in their their plans in there for everything

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Speaker 2: from like strategically deploying plastic explosives that may very well

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Speaker 2: kill human beings to blowing up a drone aircraft that

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Speaker 2: looks like an American plane that is not that nobody

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Speaker 2: is actually on and then making up a list of

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Speaker 2: human beings that would be published in papers that supposedly

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Speaker 2: died in that aircraft.

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Speaker 4: Am I a dumb dumb that I didn't really realize

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Speaker 4: they had drone aircrafts in the sixties, So what did

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Speaker 4: those look like?

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Speaker 2: They did?

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Speaker 4: This was just kind of radio controlled, I imagine, right exactly.

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Speaker 3: They weren't as cool as the modern UAVs. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: they were definitely they were around. Operation Northwoods is first

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Speaker 3: ide eated in nineteen sixty two. You can read the

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Speaker 3: initial document and all of the appendices and at the

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Speaker 3: annex on this also for free online now in US

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Speaker 3: government websites. The first title was Justification for US Military

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Speaker 3: Intervention in Cuba parentheses, ts and parentheses, which means top secret.

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Speaker 3: And this is under something we'll get to in a

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Speaker 3: second called Mongoose, which was actually a little bit scarier,

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Speaker 3: and they did a lot of this. They proposed a

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Speaker 3: lot of the stuff that you're mentioning, Matt, you know,

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Speaker 3: assass nation of Cuban immigrats or migrants, sinking boats of

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Speaker 3: people from Cuba, trying to get to the US, hiji

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Speaker 3: on Cuba, and blaming it all on Cuba. Obviously everything

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Speaker 3: we're about to say, the US wanted their hand hidden,

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Speaker 3: blowing up US naval ship or a civilian ship, orchestrating

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Speaker 3: terrorism in US cities, on US soil, attacks, having riots

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Speaker 3: in both countries, and.

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Speaker 2: They specifically using Guantanamo Bay as a staging ground for

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Speaker 2: a lot of the military action that the US would

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Speaker 2: take under the false flag of Cuba.

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Speaker 3: And the US has controversially controlled Guantanamo since the days

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Speaker 3: of the Spanish War, right, so they already had a footho,

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Speaker 3: a beachhead basically, and they did say some of these

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Speaker 3: attacks can be staged, some can be real. Very much

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Speaker 3: when you read it, it very much has the feel

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Speaker 3: of people sitting around freestyling in a writer's room, like, well,

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Speaker 3: what if we did this? But what if we did this? Well,

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Speaker 3: they don't all have to die, Yeah, we could just

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Speaker 3: meet people up, right, or we could kill some people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Type it all, put it all in. There wasn't a

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Speaker 3: lot of self editing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. But have we said who is actually coming up

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Speaker 2: with these ideas yet?

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Speaker 3: Well, this is largely the brainchild or under the guidance

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Speaker 3: of General Lyman Luis Lemnitzer, who was the chairman of

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Speaker 3: the Joint Chiefs.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but he's at least proposing it, right, he's signed it.

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Speaker 2: You can read his signature and scene in the documentation

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Speaker 2: that we're.

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Speaker 3: Talking to Landyerdale as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but then it's something that ends up in front

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Speaker 2: of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, who then have like

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Speaker 2: a response to it, which is where a lot of

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Speaker 2: the some of the main ideas are generated. If you

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Speaker 2: imagine a group of people sitting around a large table

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Speaker 2: in a war room discussing, well, what could we do here? Guys, Well,

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Speaker 2: you got an idea, You got an idea, Johnson, and

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Speaker 2: then they write it down. That's where this is coming from.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's like committee, that's what it is.

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Speaker 2: Because it's movie level stuff. Some of the things.

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Speaker 4: Is just that flabbergasted by how accurate that assessment is

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Speaker 4: because it's just a remarkably banal.

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Speaker 3: It's a little casually, right, it's a little bit casual.

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Speaker 2: And it's insane. We talked about hijacking planes. This is

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Speaker 2: April or March nineteen sixty two. This is early in

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Speaker 2: the year nineteen sixty two. They're sitting around talking about

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Speaker 2: hijacking planes and falsely showing that a plane got lost

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Speaker 2: or shot down. A plane full of like college students,

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Speaker 2: right that are going on vacation get shot down over Cuba.

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Speaker 2: But it's not actually a plane full of college students.

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Speaker 2: It's a again, one of these remote planes. But then

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Speaker 2: in the papers there'd be a list of all these students,

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Speaker 2: so that the American public would go, oh my god,

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Speaker 2: Cuba shot down a bunch of call kids. We got

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Speaker 2: to go to war.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. It's manufacturing the righteous indignation of the people

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Speaker 4: that then allows you to make whatever to say. We

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Speaker 4: see it all the time, weapons of mass destruction, all

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Speaker 4: these moments that turn out to be bullsh you know.

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Speaker 4: It's just to sway the public and get them to

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Speaker 4: not complain because everyone's trying to defend their political base.

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Speaker 4: It's the most casual caddy. Just cha canary, utter cha canary.

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Speaker 2: If this is nineteen sixty two and we've been alive

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Speaker 2: since the eighties, guys, just how many times has this

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Speaker 2: kind of thing happened and we just were none the wiser.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gonna be the ending question of tonight's exploration too.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we got to remember at the time.

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Speaker 4: To be fair.

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Speaker 3: First off, Noel, to your point, I wanna name check

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Speaker 3: a book. Would you say they were manufacturing consent Bernez, Oh, well.

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Speaker 4: Yes, of course, because it's you know, people just buy

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Speaker 4: into this whole scenario and then they're like, well, yes,

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Speaker 4: of course, we would not be good Americans if we

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Speaker 4: did not support this, because these evil people have now

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Speaker 4: been identified as our true enemies, and we have to

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Speaker 4: be on board, you know.

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Speaker 3: And let's Remember, the US government is not a monolith,

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Speaker 3: has never been really, and some factions of the state

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Speaker 3: who are aware of these plans absolutely opposed them bluntly,

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Speaker 3: so one president in particular.

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Speaker 2: Well, the civilian side of the government right versus the

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Speaker 2: military side of the government m h.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and for others for the military side of the government,

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Speaker 3: this became a myopic focus. We could argue that the

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Speaker 3: CIA and factions of the military had a sunk cost

401
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Speaker 3: fallacy in many ways. They were like ahab and Cuba

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Speaker 3: and Castro became their white whale that they wanted to pursue,

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Speaker 3: and they were thinking, again, with some validity of the

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Speaker 3: possibility of a nuclear first strike, America would once again

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Speaker 3: be absolutely defenseless against armament like this deployed so close

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Speaker 3: to home. The Eastern seaboard would be no more possibly,

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Speaker 3: And then it becomes a greater good calculus. Like if

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Speaker 3: you had the choice between losing an appendage or a

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Speaker 3: limb or a finger or dying, You're not gonna choose

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Speaker 3: to die. It just becomes a question of which limb

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Speaker 3: would you prefer to lose. So if you sacrifice a

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Speaker 3: finger to save your body, that's an easy choice, and Jaysok.

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Speaker 3: The military complex saw this kind of in the same

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Speaker 3: philosophical light, not my Apia went on to I would

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Speaker 3: argue and form later aberrant actions in Southeast Asia. We

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Speaker 3: know the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag.

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Speaker 2: I mean we're talking about the Vietnam War here, Yesody.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and the top brass over a the

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Speaker 3: Uncle Sam's side. They did say we could cause US

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Speaker 3: military casualties, would they you know, to them like the

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Speaker 3: list of actual people or fake people. It didn't matter.

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Speaker 3: They just said, we need a list. It'll cause a quote,

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Speaker 3: it's a real quote casualty list in US newspapers. Would

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Speaker 3: cause a helpful wave of national indignation.

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Speaker 4: Here, it's the word indignation.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about that that as as defined by Miriam Webster,

427
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Speaker 2: that is anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean, indignation, indignation.

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Speaker 2: But if you go to righteous igdignation, which is something

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Speaker 2: that is thrown around I think quite a bit in

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Speaker 2: at least in American fiction. This is the belief in

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Speaker 2: your right to be angry about something, even though the

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Speaker 2: people around you perhaps don't agree with why you're angry.

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Speaker 4: To it like there's a certain tunnel vision associated with it,

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Speaker 4: and that's if you can get people to that place.

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Speaker 4: You got them, you know what I mean. And it's

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Speaker 4: rattling around your particular cause, you know.

437
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: So it's to get the American people to feel that indignation,

438
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 2: and then to make sure that you can strategically get

439
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 2: the United Nations assemblies to feel the same way, because

440
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 2: you need the support of other countries, not just your

441
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 2: internal civilians to support, like full on hot war.

442
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,359
Speaker 4: What's that thing you say, Ben rabble, This something must change.

443
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 4: This will not stay. Yeah, the the.

444
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 3: United Nations, Thank you, the United Nations. At this point,

445
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 3: they've still got that new car smell. Think of them

446
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 3: a little bit like the world's most ineffective hoa oh

447
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 3: yeah in the in the neighborhood metaphor from analogy from earlier.

448
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: If Northwood, if Northwoods is deployed, if it works any

449
00:26:55,119 --> 00:27:00,600
Speaker 3: aspect of it, the end result is full military invasion

450
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 3: with the tacit support or approval of the majority of

451
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,400
Speaker 3: other nations on the planet. And then they would acquire

452
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 3: full possession of Cuba, possibly annexing it or making a

453
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,679
Speaker 3: puppet government, remove the Soviets from that part of the

454
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 3: board and at the same time, to be completely honest,

455
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 3: repair some long standing relationships with a certain demographic of

456
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 3: aristocratic businessmen in Miami.

457
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 4: Oh right, and get them back to their villas and

458
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: you know, in their homes, right, you know, taking them control?

459
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, retain control or take control, I guess, take possession

460
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 3: of nationalized assets, many of which were like private company things.

461
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 4: I know we're going to get to a disentergree, but

462
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:48,639
Speaker 4: I just can't help but take a beat to say, like,

463
00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 4: how is it that we can know this stuff happened

464
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 4: this time, but that some people convince themselves that this

465
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 4: doesn't happen all the time. I feel like it's the

466
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 4: name of the game. It is this kind of back dealing,

467
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 4: two facedness. This is it writ large. We can see

468
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 4: it down to every detail. Who are we kidding when

469
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,399
Speaker 4: we try to convince ourselves there's still some shred of

470
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 4: like truth telling and goodness and magnanimity in government. I

471
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 4: just don't buy it, man, Or.

472
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 3: Why did Taran and Tel Aviv have such a limited

473
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 3: exchange of attacks quite recently, dude?

474
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: And who fired first? And why? And or be sure

475
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 2: it was them?

476
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 4: Of course?

477
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 2: Like it it makes you question everything guys, can I

478
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: just quickly read just a little bit of a fuller

479
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 2: quote from the indignation quote you gave there, Ben, just

480
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: because it speaks a writer's room thing we're talking about,

481
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: where you're just like, what you really thought? This this

482
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,280
Speaker 2: comes from page eleven. If you find the pdf online,

483
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: you'll be able to find it. And so this is

484
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: page eleven pdf, not page eleven in the actual memo.

485
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: That makes sense here it is it's listed under B.

486
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: We could blow up a drone or unmanned vessel anywhere

487
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: in the Cuban waters. So they're talking about a boat,

488
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: a ship we could arrange to cause such an incident

489
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 2: in the vicinity of Havana or Santiago as a spectacular

490
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 2: result of Cuban attack from the air or sea, or both.

491
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: The presence of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the

492
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 2: intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that

493
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 2: the ship was taken under attack. The nearness to Havana

494
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: or Santiogo would add credibility, especially to those people that

495
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 2: might have heard the blast, or have seen.

496
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 4: The fires, or lost a family member.

497
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: Well, well, again, this is an unmanned drone ship that

498
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: they're talking about so nobody would be well, but that's

499
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 2: what they're saying. That's this in this theoretical idea, it's

500
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: just a ship that serves as the fire and the

501
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: thing that then Cuban actual planes are like, what the

502
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: hell's going on over here? And those planes are the

503
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 2: evidence that Cuba was involved. That's what they're saying. It

504
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: says the US could follow up with an air sea

505
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 2: rescue operation again to save the fake people covered by

506
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 2: US fighters to quote evacuate remaining members of the non

507
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: existent crew casualty lists in US newspapers. That's where it

508
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: goes to. Your quote would give that indignation. So it's

509
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: fake people that would cause the American public to revolt.

510
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 3: Again, they're not they they are considering fabricating a manifest right,

511
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 3: fabricating the identities. But they're also, to be clear, super

512
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 3: cool with killing Americans if.

513
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 4: They have to.

514
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the first the first one, like the A

515
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: that was b A is just we just blow up

516
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 2: a ship.

517
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 4: In Guanta writes they were just spitballing here, guys, you know.

518
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 2: And just one more quick thing here from page eleven.

519
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 2: This is title eleven or a heading eleven. It says

520
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 2: one idea is to quote sink ship near harbor entrance,

521
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: this is near Guantanamo Bay, conduct funerals four mock victims.

522
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: That just is insane to me that there would they

523
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: would have full funerals as again like a film production

524
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: or something.

525
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 4: Well, you got to follow through with the grift. Yeah.

526
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 3: And also, let's know another word, since we're doing a

527
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 3: little etymology today. In the b part that that you shared, Matt,

528
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 3: they use the phrase spectacular. Spectacular is meant to be theatrical.

529
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 3: That's what it means, right, So they want it to

530
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 3: be seen. And it might surprise some of US American

531
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 3: patriots in particular to learn this was the extension of

532
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: a larger, ongoing older conspiracy something in the holes of

533
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: Langley in DC that was referred to as the Cuban Project.

534
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 3: It had another name, Operation Mongoose. And the etymology okay,

535
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 3: Operation Mongoose very unclean thing. It comes from the historic

536
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 3: rivalry and conflict between the mongoose and the cobra enemies,

537
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 3: and the mongoose relies on a microcosmic version of asymmetrical

538
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: warfare to kill the cobra. Because it can't bite like

539
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 3: a cobra. It uses agility, speed, and unexpected vectors of

540
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 3: attack to compromise the snake. But it doesn't just run

541
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 3: full steam at its opponent. Its feints and its false

542
00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 3: moves and above all, its timing of these motions are

543
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 3: all meant to drain the snake of energy and resources.

544
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 3: So mongoose echoes the lessons of the natural world. One

545
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: of the big things they want to do is remove

546
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 3: or force the Cuban government to expend resources. They want

547
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: to drain it of its ability to fight. They want

548
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 3: to remove offensive capability and make it focus, you know,

549
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 3: whatever armament or manpower it has on defensive capabilities. And

550
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 3: they also want the boffit on the Cuban side and

551
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 3: the Soviet side to spend most of their time thinking

552
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: about how to correct the narrative.

553
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's It's like a really good boxer, right

554
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: you in about you're teaching your opponent to respond to

555
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 2: the way your shoulder moves. Your left shoulder moves at

556
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: a certain angle right when you're preparing to throw a

557
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: jab or a cross or something, and once your opponent

558
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: is aware of that and is reacting to that shoulder movement,

559
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 2: you do something different with your shoulder right but or

560
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 2: you or you feign that move with your shoulder and

561
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 2: you throw a different strike and it is so sorry, guys,

562
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 2: I'm getting a little lost here, but it's so interesting

563
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 2: the way this this played out then with the USSR,

564
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 2: because it's they're not just going after Cuba, right, they're

565
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: going after communists and putting that in quotes or the

566
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: Soviets in general at as.

567
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 4: Like as a concept, like you know, which we know

568
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 4: it's really hard to kill a concept.

569
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 2: Well, and I would say overall, I think this strategy

570
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,320
Speaker 2: is kind of what worked, right if we pull out

571
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 2: a little bit, we look at the fall of the

572
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: USSR and we look at what occurred there and expending

573
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:15,879
Speaker 2: resources in places like Afghanistan, like it kind of worked right.

574
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 4: Yeah.

575
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 3: And we also we've got to give an honorable mention

576
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: or dishonorable mention to the University of Miami because they

577
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:32,040
Speaker 3: were they were deep with something called JM Wave, which

578
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,799
Speaker 3: is sort of the operation station or origin point for

579
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,760
Speaker 3: a lot of this stuff if it were to be enacted.

580
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 3: This was under the ownership of USAF General Edward Lansdale

581
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 3: and then a guy named William King Harvey out of

582
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 3: the Agency of the CIA. They were the sunk cost

583
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: fallacy dudes or some of them in this story because

584
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: they lost the Bay of Pigs invasion. That was just

585
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: poor Lee. From a production standpoint, it was not a

586
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,440
Speaker 3: not a good series of operations. They wanted blood, they

587
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 3: wanted castro gone. They had made certain promises regarding the

588
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 3: economic state of the Caribbean and Cuban particular. They wanted

589
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: stuff to go back to the resource extraction of your

590
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,319
Speaker 3: You know, if we want to be cliche about it.

591
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 4: They're omelet guys.

592
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 3: They like omelets, which means they're on board with breaking eggs.

593
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: Well, according to JM. Wave, it's the same people we

594
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 2: keep talking about. We just brought up that same dude

595
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,719
Speaker 2: in the last episode in Herehan's episode, the guy who

596
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: was at the Ambassador Hotel, George Joannides. These are the

597
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: same people we talked about with Rob Rob Reiner when

598
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 2: we did the Who Killed JFK. Episode. It's the same

599
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: crew of Cuban exiles who were working directly with the

600
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: United States government to carry out operations that carried out

601
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: the Bay of Pigs and failed in nineteen sixty one.

602
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 2: Then here in nineteen sixty two, we're talking about doing

603
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: more stuff like that. Nineteen sixty three, JFK gets assassinated

604
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 2: and allegedly, according to that show, who killed JFK? Jmwave,

605
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: Joeanides and all these guys were directly involved in that

606
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: assassination and.

607
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 3: Jmwave not a person. Jabwave is the station. So Mongoose

608
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 3: allows the CIA to conduct asymmetrical terrorist attacks against civilians,

609
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 3: against members of the Cuban military and Russian military folks

610
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 3: stationed in the area, and they wanted to rack up blood,

611
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: they wanted to injure the public, compromise the military. Doing

612
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,920
Speaker 3: all this causes the legitimacy of the government to fall

613
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,880
Speaker 3: into question, and then force resource allocation right in a

614
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: way that is advantageous to the US. North Woods is

615
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 3: just a logical escalation of this strategy. And we have

616
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 3: to remember the context, right, We're talking a lot about context.

617
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: The US has kind of done this already in Guatemala

618
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 3: in nineteen fifty four, you know what I mean. They

619
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 3: had They had several successful test runs of this kind

620
00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 3: of stuff. And now the question is if the greater

621
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: good of our ideology is this important, does it justify

622
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 3: putting our own blood in the game to win the

623
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: larger war, will we risk sacrificing our own.

624
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they thought they were on a timeline. Guys.

625
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: They were talking about how the USSR was not fully

626
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: invested in Cuba at this time, Like they're talking about

627
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 2: the Warsaw Pact. Cuba is not a member of that yet.

628
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: They are not established full Soviet bases on Cuban land

629
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 2: at this time. Yet, the same way the US has

630
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: bases in Western Europe that are basically you know, they

631
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,960
Speaker 2: would be the same thing, right, they would be very similar.

632
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 2: So at least the creators of this document, this Northwoods document,

633
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,839
Speaker 2: they're saying that in this time, in nineteen sixty two,

634
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 2: we have to act within quote the next couple of months.

635
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 4: All right, guys, why don't we take a quick pause

636
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: here to digest what we've learned, hear a word from

637
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 4: our sponsor, and then come back with the rest of

638
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:19,720
Speaker 4: this sordid tale.

639
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 3: We've returned, and we will never know how north Woods

640
00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 3: would have played out, the specific Northwoods, the larger strategy,

641
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,359
Speaker 3: that's what we've been teasing. We'll get to at the end.

642
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 3: Jaysok did approve this, They drafted it, they presented it

643
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 3: to the Secretary of Defense, at the time Robert mcmaara

644
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 3: on March thirteenth, nineteen sixty two, It was never officially

645
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 3: accepted or implemented because largely because then President John Fitzgerald

646
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: Kennedy bluntly rejected it, said it was a dumb idea,

647
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 3: and maybe not for the reasons we might assume. An

648
00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 3: also spoiler this may have been factor in his untimely demise.

649
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, that's exactly what I want to talk about,

650
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 2: because again, going back to the discussion with Rob Reiner,

651
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 2: according to him, and according to official documentation that's come out,

652
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 2: JFK was talking directly to castro Via letters trying to

653
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,360
Speaker 2: calm everything down at this time, at this exact time

654
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,879
Speaker 2: he and he's also talking with members of like high

655
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: ranked members of the Soviet Union at this time, trying

656
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: to calm down tensions. And this doesn't seem like a

657
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: calm down tensions kind of plan, right, This is a

658
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 2: raise tensions as high as we can so that we

659
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:35,280
Speaker 2: can take full direct action.

660
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 4: Yep.

661
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 3: And the question becomes, how do we know about north

662
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 3: Woods this evening? Why are we talking about it here

663
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four, Well, it might surprise a lot

664
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: of us, a lot of our younger folks in the

665
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 3: audience tonight to learn that the American public was not

666
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:57,280
Speaker 3: aware of this in an open way until the late

667
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 3: nineteen nineties because.

668
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,879
Speaker 4: Because of declassification, or was it because of a leak

669
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 4: or what happened?

670
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 3: In November of nineteen ninety seven, the John F. Kennedy

671
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 3: Assassination Records Review Board said, oh yeah, they released like

672
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 3: over fifteen hundred pages of classified stuff that some of

673
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 3: which was directly related to the assassination, but all of

674
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 3: which got collected over time because it was related to Kennedy.

675
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 3: And what they found in this vast swath of documents

676
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 3: was that, yeah, Northwoods, Uncle Sam thought of killing some

677
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 3: of us because they were super pisted Cuba.

678
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 4: They would argue likely, and I, by the way, the

679
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 4: reason I think that they decided not to attempt this

680
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 4: plan was they had a bigger fish to fry right

681
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 4: in Berlin or in Germany, but they would just but

682
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 4: we didn't do it. What's the problem, you know, like

683
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 4: kind of yeah, we got to look at all the possibilities, guys.

684
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's a complex world out there.

685
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: I'm really glad you said that, because we'll see. But

686
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:09,280
Speaker 3: you're you're absolutely right, because in a March sixteenth, nineteen

687
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 3: sixty two memo by Lansdale, whom we've mentioned earlier, Kennedy

688
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,400
Speaker 3: rejects Northwoods out of hand entirely. And I love that

689
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: you're pointing out Berlin because he said, look to the

690
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 3: General Lemnitzer, who is kind of the point of the

691
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: spear here. Ideologically, he says, the tensions growing in Berlin

692
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:36,000
Speaker 3: are such that we may not have those four divisions

693
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: that you want to send a Cuba. They might have

694
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,880
Speaker 3: to go out to the European theater. Oh and also,

695
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 3: General you're fired.

696
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 4: Okay, goodbye. I'm sure I'll get a book dealer or something.

697
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: Oh well, firing. See, that's the thing, you know, if

698
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: you cut the point of a spear off, it's still

699
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 3: a spear. It's just maybe less least still, it's still there.

700
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 3: So Jasok continued to follow the ideology. They mapped false

701
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 3: flag opportunities against Cuba until at least nineteen sixty three,

702
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,880
Speaker 3: the shadow of Mongoose loomed well.

703
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 4: Ben to that point, I have often wondered, like, what

704
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,720
Speaker 4: does happen when a high up military official behind something

705
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 4: like this gets let go? Did they not send a

706
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 4: memo to the underlings to stop with that guy's plan, Like,

707
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 4: how does that work?

708
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:33,240
Speaker 2: Well, these are just plans to be presented to get

709
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 2: comments from the rest of the Joint chiefs of Staff,

710
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: because I got it. What's his name, Limititzer was the

711
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 2: chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the time

712
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 2: when this was written. So this is like giving it

713
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 2: to everybody else to get their ideas, which then went

714
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: all the way up to the president and the the

715
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 2: who did you say?

716
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 3: It was Secretary of Defense.

717
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 2: Secretary of Defense to be like, all right, guys, this

718
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: is our plan. What you think and they said no,

719
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 2: that dude was out. Then Lemnitz are this.

720
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,680
Speaker 3: Is just it's a vibe check.

721
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 2: It's that's exactly You're right. It was a huge vibe check.

722
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 2: And they were like, nah, not vibes, not vibes.

723
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 4: Too far, too far.

724
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: Kennedy said, not vibes, and then he got one of

725
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 3: the worst vibes a president could get.

726
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: Sh yeah, magic bullet.

727
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 4: Yeah.

728
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 3: So in the wake of or I guess we should say,

729
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 3: in the spirit of asymmetrical warfare, Jaysak continued to ask

730
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 3: themselves post Lemnitzer about waging terrorism in their neighbor's yard,

731
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 3: they said, And this is all proven. They said, well, okay,

732
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,960
Speaker 3: if an attack on our own, even a fake attack

733
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 3: like a drone or a manifest of people who don't exist,

734
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 3: even if that empty ship strategy is out of bounce,

735
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: then what if we attack another member of the Organization

736
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: of American States. What if we just hit another Caribbean

737
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: country and blame it on Cuba, meaning we blame it

738
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 3: on the Russians. And someone's like, oh, yeah, yeah, I

739
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,000
Speaker 3: know some countries in the Caribbean. What about you guys

740
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 3: like Jamaica, And they said, put it on the list,

741
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: And they said, oh, Trinidad and Tobago maybe, and they're like,

742
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: never heard of it, put it on the list.

743
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 2: They put the Dominican Republic and Haiti all on that

744
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 2: list too, And it was all again to try and

745
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 2: pretend that maybe we could even do small things with

746
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: Cuban quote Cuban shipments that we've doctored to make it

747
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,040
Speaker 2: look like they're Cuban of specific arms or something that

748
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 2: are found or intercepted that look like there's about to

749
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 2: be an invasion. But even though there's not, like.

750
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 3: It's just could we yellow cake this a little bit.

751
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 3: Oh that's god, you know what I mean?

752
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 2: Like, yes, yeah, Can I give you another one? This

753
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,319
Speaker 2: is this is from page twelve in this is the

754
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 2: This is under a heading six the use of Meg

755
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: type aircraft. Ben, you want to tell everybody what a

756
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 2: MiG type aircraft is.

757
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, A big type aircraft is a fighter plane that

758
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 3: is Russian.

759
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: That's really all you need. Was Soviet at the time.

760
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 2: It was the front one of their primary fighter jets.

761
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 2: So use of a Meg type aircraft by US pilots

762
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 2: could provide additional provocation, harassment of civil air attacks on

763
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:27,760
Speaker 2: surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft. Again,

764
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 2: drone aircraft by Meg type planes would be useful as

765
00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: complementary actions to this concept of using false shipments in

766
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: something like a place like Trinidad or in the Dominican Republic.

767
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: And this is what really got me, guys, they said,

768
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 2: an American made American military F eighty six that is

769
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:54,840
Speaker 2: quote properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw

770
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 2: a Cuban MiG aircraft, especially if the pilot of the

771
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: transport we're to announce such a fact. So like, imagine

772
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 2: you're just on a delta flight, and the pilot says,

773
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 2: h oh, that appears to be a Meg aircraft. What

774
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: is that doing outside? And now you've got a false

775
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,240
Speaker 2: story that everybody on the aircraft gets to talk about.

776
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 2: And it says, it says reasonable copies of the Meg

777
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,799
Speaker 2: could be produced from US resources in about three months.

778
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 3: And that was probably a better idea than just trying

779
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 3: to sort of tart up tart up a saber, because

780
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 3: if you look at the picture of an F eighty

781
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 3: six and you look at the picture of a Meg,

782
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 3: they have very they're very different. You know, it's like

783
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 3: a dog with a longer versus a shorter snout, and

784
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 3: the wing shape is different. However, again, sy up style,

785
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: the average passenger on a commercial airline is not going

786
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: to know the difference. What they're going to be looking

787
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 3: for is insignia yep.

788
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 2: Colored.

789
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

790
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: And so there's one thing before we move on that

791
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,080
Speaker 3: I want to get back to. The Machavelian brilliance of

792
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 3: attacking Trinidad and Tobago and Jamaican in particular, is that

793
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:18,760
Speaker 3: they're Commonwealth countries, which means that the United Kingdom would

794
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 3: be by treaty bound to be drawn into the conflict.

795
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 4: Wow I mean, thank god they didn't you do it?

796
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got to get that coalition of the willing

797
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 2: right guys. Cough cough nine to eleven cough cough, we

798
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,480
Speaker 2: shout out Pearl Harbor right cough.

799
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: Oh oh man, a New American Century. What if there

800
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 3: was a project for that? Wow, the last time we

801
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 3: did something something spontaneous and fun, guys.

802
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 4: Jeez man, I said the most literal name possible to

803
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 4: an organization. Guys.

804
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 2: I want to be a rational human being who is

805
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: not this crazy conspiracy theorist or someone would call that.

806
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 2: But I swear it feels like the are so strong

807
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: and so direct, But there's no the smoking gun thing

808
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:07,919
Speaker 2: just doesn't exist, and I don't think we would ever

809
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: see it because, as you said before, we didn't learn

810
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,439
Speaker 2: about this until the nineties, and all of these were

811
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 2: marked top secret, special handling, and this thing that we've

812
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 2: talked about in the past. No foreign guys, remember what

813
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 2: that means.

814
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, not for any foreign to zero nationals. Right, foreignationals.

815
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: Not releasable to foreign nationals. And inside the recommendations here

816
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: from the Joint Chiefs of Staff, it's stuff like, guys,

817
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 2: do not share this or forward it to any commanders

818
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 2: of unified or specified commands. Don't let anybody see this

819
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:47,920
Speaker 2: that are US officers assigned to NATO activities whatsoever. Do

820
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 2: not show this to anyone to the chairman US delegation

821
00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 2: United Nations, do not let that person see this.

822
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and certain folks in what we call academia got

823
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,879
Speaker 3: similar warnings because of the way research interacts.

824
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 2: It's just not it was like, nobody can know that

825
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:10,720
Speaker 2: this is what we're doing. This is the secret plans,

826
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 2: is the ausi mandiis stuff.

827
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: This is totally right and ethical, by the way, and

828
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 3: that's why we can't tell anybody nothing weird. Also, I

829
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 3: would argue this is a parable there's a reason we're

830
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 3: talking about this. I don't think it's crazy to note

831
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 3: that this teaches us profoundly important lessons. They're surprising and uncomfortable.

832
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: Nobody in this exploration at any point saw themselves as

833
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 3: the bad guys. They conspire to create bad guys for

834
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 3: a greater good. And honestly, like, I know this is

835
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 3: a hot take, but the US was not necessarily unreasonable

836
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 3: in its assumptions here. We have to remember that we're

837
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 3: foreign nuclear weapons deployed this close to home again, there

838
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: would be no countermeasure. There would be a second strike capability,

839
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,359
Speaker 3: but it wouldn't save places like DC or New York

840
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 3: or Philadelphia or you know, Miami. I'm sure they would go. Well,

841
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 3: Miami's kind of close. Maybe Atlanta. But the thing is

842
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,960
Speaker 3: to your earlier point, Nol, this is one thing the

843
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:23,360
Speaker 3: public knows about now. At some point many other sinister

844
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 3: options equally, if not more, sinister options had to be considered.

845
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 3: You have to think through it because you have to understand,

846
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 3: you know, like you said, Matt, the shoulder dropping, what

847
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:35,560
Speaker 3: is your enemy trying to signal? What are you trying

848
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 3: to signal to them? It becomes a double blind game

849
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,600
Speaker 3: in the worst way. And if they didn't consider this

850
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, somebody else was going to And maybe

851
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 3: that was part of their rationale, but it doesn't make

852
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 3: it right. It shows us. It shows us that any

853
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: country or any power structure in general will actively consider

854
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: these kind of things if they feel it is to

855
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:03,960
Speaker 3: the larger advantage.

856
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's the kind of thing that makes at

857
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 2: least me personally. I can't speak for everyone. I can't

858
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 2: speak for you guys. It makes me doubt the anything

859
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:18,040
Speaker 2: that comes after this, anything that comes after nineteen sixty

860
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 2: two as like, oh did was that real? Nore it?

861
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,839
Speaker 2: This is just them getting caught. Like I just feel

862
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 2: like this this has just been the.

863
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 4: Name of the game as long as governments have governmented,

864
00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 4: you know, these types of exploits and behind the scenes

865
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 4: double deals, like back to the look at the Romans.

866
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,240
Speaker 2: I mean they were double.

867
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 4: Crossing each other left, right, and center. I mean it's

868
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,760
Speaker 4: just when you get to a certain level of power

869
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 4: and control, corruption just kind of sets in and like

870
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 4: you just want I don't know, it's it's bizarre, but

871
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 4: let's talk.

872
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: About getting caught. This is thirty five years later that

873
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: we learn about this, right and.

874
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 4: Oh, which makes even more galling because they don't even

875
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 4: look at it as getting caught barely. It's just like, you,

876
00:51:58,640 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 4: guys are.

877
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,160
Speaker 2: Maybe the wrong people to ask, but when's the last

878
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:04,360
Speaker 2: time you had a casual conversation with somebody unrelated to

879
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,719
Speaker 2: this show about Operation Northwoods. When's the last time you

880
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 2: heard about it?

881
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 4: Guys, I didn't know about it. I mean, this is

882
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:13,759
Speaker 4: very new to me. I mean it doesn't surprise me, though,

883
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:14,680
Speaker 4: I'm just I.

884
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: Guess what I'm saying is getting caught. It's they didn't

885
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 2: really get caught. It then got discussed. You know, a

886
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 2: couple of times.

887
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: They got identified, which is not the same thing as

888
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,759
Speaker 3: being apprehended nor encountering consequences there, you know what I mean.

889
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 3: And this is another thing too, like, yes, this is

890
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 3: the this is the dirty business of state craft. It's

891
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 3: kind of the reason why you might enjoy a stake

892
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 3: and you don't want to watch a documentary about factory

893
00:52:44,239 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 3: farms while you're eating that stake.

894
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 4: Or even kill a cow, right right.

895
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 3: You're never going to hear a politician running for election

896
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: on the idea of staging a terrorist attack. It does

897
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,239
Speaker 3: not matter who the US president is. They're not going

898
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 3: to come out and say, hey, guys, stuff with Ukraine

899
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 3: Rush is getting kind of complicated. So we're thinking, you know,

900
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:08,120
Speaker 3: we could dress a bunch of people up, you know,

901
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 3: in Balaklava's and have them run out at a theater

902
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 3: or something. You're never gonna hear Putin saying yeah, bomb

903
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,480
Speaker 3: some apartments in the nineties, because you know, election season,

904
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 3: you're never gonna hear that.

905
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:22,320
Speaker 4: There was a great line I can't remember. There's a

906
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 4: lot of lines in this movie in Oppenheimer. But the

907
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,480
Speaker 4: character the Robert Downey Junior played has something very poignant

908
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 4: to say about the nature of politics. He's like the

909
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:33,360
Speaker 4: ones that are out in the light governing openly, or

910
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 4: like they're not the ones you have to worry about

911
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 4: or that's not even how you do. He says something

912
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 4: about like you have to do it from the shadows,

913
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 4: and that's those are the ones that are that's when

914
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 4: the job is really getting done. It is like the

915
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:45,880
Speaker 4: time spent in the shadows.

916
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: Okay, and I don't want to spoil too much here, guys,

917
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: but I do want to quickly talk about something that

918
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 2: was stated in one of the episodes of the Fallout

919
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: series that's on Amazon Prime right now. So without spoiling,

920
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 2: let's if you know any thing about the Fallout series,

921
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 2: then you know there's a company called vault Tech or Robeco,

922
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 2: Roboco something like that.

923
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 4: Vltech's vault Tech and rob Co's rob Co. But I

924
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 4: think at some point they may be bought rob Co. Yeah,

925
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 4: I think that's right.

926
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 2: So there's a discussion about how vault Tech before the

927
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 2: Great War, before the bombs fell, vault Tech has a

928
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: quote fiduciary responsibility to ensure that there is a nuclear there,

929
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,520
Speaker 2: that there is uh a disaster and end of the

930
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 2: world nuclear fallout situation, because if they don't, if that

931
00:54:36,480 --> 00:54:42,880
Speaker 2: doesn't occur, then all of their investments. Investors, investors right

932
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 2: the day have a fiduciary responsibility to their investors to

933
00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 2: ensure that the vaults are used right and that there's

934
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: a there's a reason that these people have spent so

935
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 2: much money and invested so much money in these vaults.

936
00:54:56,120 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 4: We have that same fiduciary responsibility to all these war

937
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:01,879
Speaker 4: profiteers and companies that we're in business with making all

938
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 4: of this stuff, that it gets used and there continues

939
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,400
Speaker 4: to be in need to be fed by these.

940
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:11,120
Speaker 2: Products, yes, which in my opinion, then goes directly to

941
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 2: the lobbying groups that work directly for those companies. That

942
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:17,600
Speaker 2: then goes directly to the senators and lawmakers and people

943
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 2: in the White House. So it really does feel like

944
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 2: we're in this situation, in this weird situation where there

945
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:28,479
Speaker 2: is a fduciary responsibility to be at war as much

946
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: as possible.

947
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all spelled out in nineteen eighty four, the documentary,

948
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 4: and just really quickly then I'm done the quote was

949
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,919
Speaker 4: the character he plays is Lewis Strauss, and the quote

950
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 4: is amateurs seek the sun and get burned. Power stays

951
00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 4: in the shadows.

952
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 3: Love it and outside of Spentley Butler, maybe you will

953
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 3: never hear a top level military official speak of the

954
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,760
Speaker 3: US and anything but glowing terms. Make no mistake, folks.

955
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 3: There's a lot out there behind and beyond those bright,

956
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 3: pretty phrases. So who is to say something like Northwoods

957
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: couldn't happen this decade, this year, two thousand and one,

958
00:56:09,239 --> 00:56:12,200
Speaker 3: this evening. That's the stuff they don't want you to know.

959
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 3: We will return later this week with more deep dives

960
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 3: into the shadows. In the meantime, we can't wait to

961
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 3: hear from you, folks. Let us know your thoughts, let

962
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:25,400
Speaker 3: us know if you have firsthand experience with north Woods

963
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 3: or something like it. We try to be easy to

964
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 3: find online.

965
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 4: Find us on the Internet at the handle Conspiracy Stuff,

966
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 4: where we exist on Facebook, where you can join our

967
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 4: Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. Ben sent Matt

968
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:41,920
Speaker 4: and I a lovely rap songw you guys familiar with

969
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,080
Speaker 4: the rap music? Now, sorry, I sound like good Grandpapa

970
00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 4: face two Lee from the Facebook group here's where it

971
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,359
Speaker 4: gets crazy for posting that about the three of us

972
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 4: and various facets of our personalities. You too can be

973
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 4: a part of that conversation. And here's where it gets crazy.

974
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:58,880
Speaker 4: On Facebook. We are also conspiracy stuff. On x FKA,

975
00:56:59,040 --> 00:57:02,000
Speaker 4: Twitter and on YouTube. Or we've got video content rolling

976
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 4: out every single week on Instagram and TikTok. We're conspiracy stuff.

977
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 2: Show A. Do you want to call us or use

978
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 2: your voice to do something weird on your phone? Why

979
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,200
Speaker 2: not call one eight three three std WYTK when you

980
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: call in, give yourself a cool nickname and let us

981
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 2: know if we can use your name, voice and message

982
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: on the air. If you don't want to do that,

983
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,000
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

984
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 3: We are the folks who read every single email we get.

985
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,600
Speaker 3: It's an amazing way to speak with us directly. Give

986
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 3: us the links, give us the annotations, no character limit,

987
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 3: love a good essay. By the way, all you have

988
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 3: to help, pictures of cats, pets, limericks, haiku, any and

989
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,920
Speaker 3: all all are welcome. As the villain said, alter guys,

990
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,880
Speaker 3: be well aware, folks. Sometimes the void writes back, we

991
00:57:47,000 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 3: are a conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

992
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

993
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

994
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.