WEBVTT - Part One: Ada Lovelace and Lord Byron: The First Computer Programmer, Child of the First Vampire

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<v Speaker 1>Cool Zone Media.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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<v Speaker 2>your weekly podcast that sometimes is people who it's really

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<v Speaker 2>easy to say are cool, and sometimes are people who

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<v Speaker 2>it's really easy to say aren't boring. And someone who

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<v Speaker 2>is neither uncool nor boring is my guest, bridget Todd,

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<v Speaker 2>host of There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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<v Speaker 3>How are you a bridget I'm great, thank you for

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<v Speaker 3>having me.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm honored that you think I'm sometimes cool and maybe

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<v Speaker 4>not boring.

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<v Speaker 3>I strive for both of those things.

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<v Speaker 2>You do well at both, unlike some of the people

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to talk about this week, who managed some

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<v Speaker 2>of them and not the others.

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<v Speaker 5>Is a complicated one. I am thank you. I know

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<v Speaker 5>who I like. I like a little moral ambiguity. I

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<v Speaker 5>like a complicated historical or cultural figure.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, well first I implicated historical figure is Sophie Lichterman,

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<v Speaker 2>who's been podcasting since the fourteen hundreds and apparently really

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<v Speaker 2>really old skincare fucking on point.

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<v Speaker 1>Your sun's green even if you're not going outside.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you're like one of those vampires who doesn't age.

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<v Speaker 2>We're gonna talk about vampires this week.

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<v Speaker 3>Really, I didn't even know that she must have known that.

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<v Speaker 2>No, this is just happy and our audio engineer is Danil.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone knows is a Hi to Daniel, Hi Danel.

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<v Speaker 3>I yea Hi Danel.

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<v Speaker 2>Our theme music was written for us by unwoman. So

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<v Speaker 2>not the last time we had you on, but the

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<v Speaker 2>first time we had you on, we were talking about

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<v Speaker 2>how computer used to be a job, right, And this

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<v Speaker 2>week I was like, let's talk about the origin of computers.

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<v Speaker 2>And by that I mean I want to tell a

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<v Speaker 2>story that involves vampires, poetry, revolution, and an almost unprecedented

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<v Speaker 2>amount of heatness to get access I'm using. Today, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to tell the story of the first computer programmer,

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<v Speaker 2>a woman named Ada Lovelace who never met her father,

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<v Speaker 2>but her and her husband were obsessed with her father,

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<v Speaker 2>the infamous hedonist, the sex crazed class trader, the most

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<v Speaker 2>famous poet of his generation, and the first vampire lord Byron.

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<v Speaker 2>You familiar with much of this story.

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<v Speaker 3>I am familiar with some of this story.

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<v Speaker 4>I just I'm like quivering with excitement because when you

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<v Speaker 4>said a complicated person, I had a feeling. Then when

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<v Speaker 4>you said vampires, I was like, Oh, I think I

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<v Speaker 4>really know.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm so excited to get into this cool. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I was like, I'm going to do Ada Lovelace

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<v Speaker 2>because I've just been doing a bunch of stuff that

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<v Speaker 2>revolves not revolves around but like Lord Byron is a

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<v Speaker 2>periphery figure skulking in the dark and drinking people's blood

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever. And I was like, all right, well, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't really want to specifically get into him, and so

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<v Speaker 2>I started doing Ada Lovelace, and then I more and

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<v Speaker 2>more realized that I actually think that understanding her father

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<v Speaker 2>is like a big part of it. And also not boring,

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<v Speaker 2>not a cool guy, maybe a cool guy. Really the

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<v Speaker 2>jury is out historically about this man.

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<v Speaker 4>I think not boring is the perfect way to describe him.

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<v Speaker 4>I know that Ada Lovelace is somebody who had a

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<v Speaker 4>very complicated relationship with her family on top of being

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<v Speaker 4>a complicated person herself. And I like how you're coming

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<v Speaker 4>at this, like we do sort of have to talk

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<v Speaker 4>about her father or to really understand who she was.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I was also like, before I did too

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<v Speaker 2>much of this research, there's this thing where people kind

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<v Speaker 2>of talk about Ada Lovelace as if like she's like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh well, we kind of need to throw a woman

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<v Speaker 2>in there. When we're talking about early computers. No, like

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<v Speaker 2>she she's as important as Charles Babbage. There's no part

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<v Speaker 2>of me after reading all of this that doubts that,

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<v Speaker 2>if anything, she was more important.

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<v Speaker 3>Totally agree.

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<v Speaker 4>And I hate this perspective where people you can tell

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<v Speaker 4>the inclusion of traditionally marginalized people is like a footnote,

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<v Speaker 4>like they're like, oh, yeah, some women were there, some

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<v Speaker 4>queer folks were there, some transpoloks were there, black folks, whatever, whatever, whatever.

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<v Speaker 4>But that's so wrong because these people they were at

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<v Speaker 4>every I mean this literally, at every step of computers

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<v Speaker 4>becoming the ubiquitous forces they are in twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 4>Women were there, Queer folks were there, trans folks were there,

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<v Speaker 4>black folks were there. And so this idea that adding

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<v Speaker 4>them is like a little nod to diversity or something

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<v Speaker 4>that is so wrong because they wouldn't exist without us.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Absolutely, And it was really nice to like know

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<v Speaker 2>that by reading more about this story, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>actually had this moment where I was like, am I

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<v Speaker 2>really going to do some fucking nobles? I like kind

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<v Speaker 2>of hate English nobility specifically, like a lot of what

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to be talking about happened around the same

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<v Speaker 2>time that England was Oh, I don't know, genocide in

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<v Speaker 2>Ireland and things like that. You know, I usually don't

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<v Speaker 2>like nobility. I usually am like whatever. But these folks,

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<v Speaker 2>their story is compelling enough that I decided it's worth it.

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<v Speaker 2>Although I've refuse to learn why marrying an earl makes

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<v Speaker 2>you a countess. I don't understand it, and I refuse

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<v Speaker 2>to learn. And if you know, listener, don't tell me.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care.

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<v Speaker 4>Margarete Killso a hearty supporter of monarchies.

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<v Speaker 2>And nobility, not traditionally a fan.

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<v Speaker 1>No.

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<v Speaker 2>So one thing that Ada Lovelacener father Lord Byron hav

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<v Speaker 2>in common is a shocking amount of secrecy. There's an

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<v Speaker 2>awful lot we don't know about them that we will

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<v Speaker 2>never know about them in their personal lives. And then

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of conjecture, and some of it based with

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of evidence. Right, we also don't know the

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<v Speaker 2>juiciest bits. So whatever we think we know, there's probably

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<v Speaker 2>something wilder. Lord Byron when he died, his friends burned

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<v Speaker 2>his wars, less history judge him as a monster.

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<v Speaker 4>That's when you know you're really like when you're It's

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<v Speaker 4>like the old school equivalent of.

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<v Speaker 3>Clearing your browser history. You can't burn their.

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<v Speaker 2>Papers, Yeah, totally, and they could have gotten a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of money for those papers. This man was famous, and

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<v Speaker 2>Lovelace didn't fare entirely better. There's a deathbed confession that

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<v Speaker 2>shocked her husband that we don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>What do you think it was?

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<v Speaker 2>I think it was a round cheating, but I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know because I also we'll get to it. I think

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<v Speaker 2>they were swingers. I think they knew each other as cheating.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's got to be something wilder than that, is

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<v Speaker 2>my personal guess. Unless he was just such a like

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<v Speaker 2>goody two shoes wife guy. Well, okay, we'll talk about

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<v Speaker 2>him later. We're gonna start chronologically with the father, Lord Byron.

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<v Speaker 2>Lord Byron was, for like one hundred years at least,

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<v Speaker 2>the archtypical bad boy, the anti hero. I'm not a

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<v Speaker 2>classic literature girl. I'm much more of a fantasy speculative fiction.

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<v Speaker 2>So I never heard anyone use the phrase byronic hero.

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<v Speaker 2>Had either of you heard this phrase before.

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<v Speaker 3>I had heard it?

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<v Speaker 4>I am a PhD in literature dropout. Unfortunately I have

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<v Speaker 4>heard that phrase. Don't ask me what it means. That's

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<v Speaker 4>why I'm a That's why I'm a dropout and not

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<v Speaker 4>a degree holder, but I have heard that phrase before.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, really cool, Yeah, no, let's dropout. I really excited

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<v Speaker 2>when I accidentally, like I knew that you know a

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<v Speaker 2>lot about computer things and the way that women are

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<v Speaker 2>talked about in the history of computing. I love when

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<v Speaker 2>I find out that I have the perfect guests for something.

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<v Speaker 4>Uh, the perfect guest might have been a PhD holder.

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<v Speaker 4>I'll take it nonetheless now because then.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're a PhD holder, he'd be like, Margaret, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not the way that it happened, Margaret.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And if there's any moments like that, you should interject them,

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<v Speaker 2>because I didn't give a shit about Lord Byron until

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<v Speaker 2>he was in the background of all of these stories.

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<v Speaker 2>I did know and care about, and finally I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>all right, I need to know. A byronic hero is

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<v Speaker 2>an anti hero. It's a it's a fuck boy. It

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<v Speaker 2>is a Victoria pre Victorian fuck boy. And people would

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<v Speaker 2>throw that phrase around byronic the way that we might

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<v Speaker 2>talk about Orwellian or kafka esque today, not meaning the

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<v Speaker 2>same thing. But if you have like a brooding, sexy

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<v Speaker 2>anti hero, he has a byronic figure. He absolutely fucked,

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<v Speaker 2>he broke hearts. He spit on the conservative morals of

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<v Speaker 2>his society. He wrote poetry. It was that was like

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<v Speaker 2>the rock star job at the time, not the way

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<v Speaker 2>it comes across now. When you tell people that you

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<v Speaker 2>write poetry, which everyone should still do, mind you, but

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't carry the same weight. It's like telling someone

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<v Speaker 2>you're a podcaster or something. You know. He spent his

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<v Speaker 2>fortune and his fame on revolution and liberation. He pissed

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<v Speaker 2>off an awful lot of people. Despite not being conventionally

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<v Speaker 2>attractive and being disabled, he was the most sexually desired

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<v Speaker 2>man in high society in London. This is literally the

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<v Speaker 2>guy who wrote Don Juan, or as he pronounced it,

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<v Speaker 2>don Juwan, I think, just because he was English, not

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<v Speaker 2>as like a weird Yeah, and it's semi auto biographical.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also semi auto biographic about his fuck up dad too,

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<v Speaker 2>because his fuck up dad was a lot like him.

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<v Speaker 2>He home wrecked constantly, He ruined lives, He was sleeping

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<v Speaker 2>with his half sister. He was not around to raise

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<v Speaker 2>his kids, although this was not entirely his fault always

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<v Speaker 2>he honestly could potentially have fathered hundreds of children. There's

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<v Speaker 2>only a few that we know about. He spoke up

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<v Speaker 2>for the working class when no one else would. He

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<v Speaker 2>went into exile because his sexuality was a capital offense

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<v Speaker 2>in his native country, the backwards, a little island called England.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone's going to get mad that England is actually the

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<v Speaker 2>name of a specific country, not the larger island whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>And he died young trying to free far off Grease

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<v Speaker 2>from foreign occupation. So people argue about him today. They say,

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<v Speaker 2>was he a hero? Was he a monster? Was he misunderstood?

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<v Speaker 2>I have come to the conclusion, and I'm curious your take.

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<v Speaker 2>He's all three of these things.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree with you.

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<v Speaker 4>I think complicated person like I think trying to be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>he's just purely a hero, purely a monster. I think

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<v Speaker 4>his legacy is a little too complex to boil it

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<v Speaker 4>down in that way.

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<v Speaker 3>I think all of these things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And the thing that I'm like, well, i'll get

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<v Speaker 2>into it. The way he specifically handled a few relationships

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<v Speaker 2>is the thing that I'm like, Wow, I wish I

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<v Speaker 2>had more details. I wish I kind of knew better.

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<v Speaker 2>But I mean it's like, who am I to sit

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<v Speaker 2>in judgment of these people who have been dead for

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<v Speaker 2>hundreds of years. But I'm like, that's literally my job

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<v Speaker 2>is to try and find entertaining ways to sit in

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<v Speaker 2>judgment of people who've been dead for hundreds of years.

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<v Speaker 4>So I do think is like the way that he

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<v Speaker 4>showed up in reallyationships does relate to his work and legacy.

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<v Speaker 4>So it's not like we're just being petty and being like, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 4>he wrote this, but also he was a scoundrel.

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<v Speaker 3>Like those things are kind of related totally.

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<v Speaker 2>He wasn't like writing about a wandering fuck boy out

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<v Speaker 2>of like an insul imagination sitting in his parents' basement.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>He was a.

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<v Speaker 2>Wandering fuck boy. And in seventeen eighty eight, Lord Byron

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<v Speaker 2>was born into minor nobility in the center of that

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<v Speaker 2>world spanning nightmarish hydra called the British Empire. His first

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<v Speaker 2>name was not Lord, it was George, but no one

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<v Speaker 2>as soon as he becomes Lord Byron, he's just Lord Byron, like,

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<v Speaker 2>which is a move. But he was born George Gordon Byron.

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<v Speaker 2>He was born in London to a Scottish heiress and

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<v Speaker 2>a father named mad Jack. To be fair, Lord Byron

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<v Speaker 2>named his own father mad Jack in like an obituary

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<v Speaker 2>of the aforementioned mad Jack. But that's the name that's stuck,

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<v Speaker 2>because Lord Byron, if he names something, that's the name

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<v Speaker 2>that's going to stick. Matt Jack was lived up to

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<v Speaker 2>his name. He fought against the American Revolution. He blew

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<v Speaker 2>all of his money gambling. He fucked around on his

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<v Speaker 2>wife with other married women. He left his second wife

0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:16.920
<v Speaker 2>and all of his kids to go live in France

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.959
<v Speaker 2>with his own sister, whom he was probably fucking. Then

0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:24.120
<v Speaker 2>he died at thirty four, probably from friend of the

0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:31.240
<v Speaker 2>pod tuberculosis, but possibly by his own hand. Meanwhile, Young

0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.880
<v Speaker 2>Byron not quite yet Lord, although he's going to become

0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 2>a lord at ten, which is not a thing you

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:38.760
<v Speaker 2>should do to a child. He moves with his mom

0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:41.600
<v Speaker 2>to Scotland. He was born with a club foot. He

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.600
<v Speaker 2>will walk with a limb his entire life. And he's

0:12:43.600 --> 0:12:46.960
<v Speaker 2>never able to dance, at least like in a way

0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:52.480
<v Speaker 2>that is presentable to high society. Through vagaries of inheritance,

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:55.079
<v Speaker 2>I refuse to study in depth. My opinion about the

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.720
<v Speaker 2>English nobility is already on record. A series of dead

0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.720
<v Speaker 2>airs mean that our young Lord Byron winds up inheriting

0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 2>the title Lord Byron from his great uncle who is

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:09.960
<v Speaker 2>named Lord Byron. The new young Lord Byron is ten

0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.400
<v Speaker 2>when he becomes the sixth Lord Byron, which is a baron.

0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:14.600
<v Speaker 2>He's a baron.

0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 4>Again, we don't really know how the titles work. I

0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 4>don't know either, and I refuse to look it up.

0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.720
<v Speaker 4>So if you do know that, I feel like, keep

0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 4>it to yourself.

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 3>Maybe.

0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So he suddenly becomes a character in a weird

0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>old movie, only he predates old movies right by one

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.360
<v Speaker 2>hundred years, so he's actually the things that they're all

0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 2>based on. It becomes a baron of this estate called

0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Newstead Abbey in Nottingham, near Sherwood Forest and all that shit.

0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.400
<v Speaker 2>It is old and run down, so his mom leases

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.600
<v Speaker 2>it out rather than living there, but he spends some

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>time there as a kid in the like we can't

0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:50.400
<v Speaker 2>afford to keep up our giant Gothic mansion, and he

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 2>has a Gothic nightmare of a childhood. His mother was

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:55.880
<v Speaker 2>a drunk. A lot of biographers like to argue about

0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.640
<v Speaker 2>whether or not she was shitty to him. His nurse

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:01.000
<v Speaker 2>was very shitty to him. The way that it's phrased

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:05.600
<v Speaker 2>in history books. I specifically disagree with because his nurse

0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 2>beat him regularly, sexually assaulted him regularly when he's like,

0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:13.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, ten or something, and then would yell at

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:16.400
<v Speaker 2>him in scripture and you know, talk about what terrible

0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 2>person he is or whatever. Right, And one reason it's

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 2>hard to piece out a lot of things is that

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 2>people dance around both the things that he had inflicted

0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 2>upon him and that he inflicted upon others. People don't.

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 2>People are like sly and vague, And I think that's

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 2>like a British nobility thing, where when they talk about assault,

0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 2>child abuse, incest, homosexuality and affairs, and they're all like

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.880
<v Speaker 2>conflated as bad things, even though some of them are

0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 2>perfectly fine and consensual and some of them are horrific,

0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.560
<v Speaker 2>nightmare things whatever. I'm not even going to repeat it.

0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't like the way that about half the histories

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.080
<v Speaker 2>that I read about him refer to what he suffered

0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 2>at the hand of his caretakers. He was very happy

0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.040
<v Speaker 2>to get sent way to boarding school. He called them

0:15:02.080 --> 0:15:04.520
<v Speaker 2>the happiest days of his life. He met a bunch

0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.760
<v Speaker 2>of his forever friends while he was at school. He's

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:11.000
<v Speaker 2>probably started sleeping with boys. I understand why men at

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>the time talk slyly around homosexuality because it was a

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.680
<v Speaker 2>public hanging offense at the time, and he falls in

0:15:19.760 --> 0:15:21.440
<v Speaker 2>love with girls a bunch too, and he's way more

0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:27.680
<v Speaker 2>public about that. By college, the school is like, oh,

0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 2>you can't keep a dog in your room, and he's like, okay,

0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 2>So he gets a bear.

0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 4>Wait where did he get a bear? Like, what do

0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 4>we know about him obtaining this bear?

0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know enough. He keeps animals his whole life.

0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>He always has like a menagere that follows him around

0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.800
<v Speaker 2>basically through all of his travels, and it's like whatever,

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.160
<v Speaker 2>weird animals, But he specifically likes dogs and birds, like

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.480
<v Speaker 2>giant birds, peacocks and eagles and stuff like that. Right,

0:15:58.000 --> 0:15:59.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's referred to as a tame bear, and I

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:01.800
<v Speaker 2>refuse to like just say it was a tame bear

0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:04.840
<v Speaker 2>because I only half believe that that's a concept. You know.

0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 2>I think you can have a trained bear. I think

0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 2>that's true. And yeah, I it's just one of these

0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:15.200
<v Speaker 2>like rich European people things like every now and then

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 2>you read about like someone who lives in Europe and

0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:18.760
<v Speaker 2>they have a ton of money, so they have like

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 2>a leopard or whatever, you know.

0:16:21.240 --> 0:16:23.200
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if I you know that meme.

0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:25.800
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't tell anybody if I won the lottery, but

0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 4>there would be signs I would definitely get all kinds

0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:29.239
<v Speaker 4>of weird animals.

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:30.920
<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, for sure. I mean I would treat them

0:16:30.960 --> 0:16:32.560
<v Speaker 3>well and have like specialists or whatever.

0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:32.840
<v Speaker 4>Like.

0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:34.920
<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't be you.

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:36.640
<v Speaker 4>Know, it wouldn't be one of those things where it's like, oh,

0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.840
<v Speaker 4>this person had a alligator in their studio apartment or something,

0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.280
<v Speaker 4>they would be well cared for. But yes, I get it,

0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:43.480
<v Speaker 4>this is something I understand.

0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, totally, And like, yeah, all of the birds

0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:49.920
<v Speaker 2>and stuff that he keeps, I'm like, yeah, I would

0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:52.480
<v Speaker 2>totally do that if I, like, if I got to

0:16:52.560 --> 0:16:55.160
<v Speaker 2>hire people to take care of things, you know, for me.

0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:00.800
<v Speaker 2>And while in school he got into poetry. His first

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.600
<v Speaker 2>poems were terrible love poems for his cousin Margaret, which

0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 2>I only included because I like the name Margaret and

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.760
<v Speaker 2>Margaret did not want him. He self published two poetry books,

0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.240
<v Speaker 2>one of which he had to censor because of its

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.840
<v Speaker 2>like frank eroticism. He's like from a very young age,

0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.879
<v Speaker 2>is like and then I like fucking you know, and

0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.520
<v Speaker 2>then the priests are like you shouldn't say that, and

0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:25.720
<v Speaker 2>he's like, and then I like vague metaphors, and.

0:17:25.680 --> 0:17:28.760
<v Speaker 3>That's much better. Then I like intimacy.

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now he's constantly talking about his like

0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.719
<v Speaker 2>intimate friendships with boys and then the like long curly

0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:37.959
<v Speaker 2>locks that go down the back of this boy's you

0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>know back or whatever.

0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.000
<v Speaker 3>I think we're picking up what he's putting down.

0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. But it's funny because it took hundreds of

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 2>years for people to pick it up because they were

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>like and then late later spoiler, he leaves England because

0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:49.959
<v Speaker 2>he can't come back, and it's because of scandal, and

0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 2>some of it's like kind of legit scandal. But he's

0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:55.119
<v Speaker 2>pretty open in his letters. He's like, I can't go

0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.280
<v Speaker 2>back becaus they hang me for having the sex that

0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I have.

0:17:58.440 --> 0:17:59.680
<v Speaker 3>You know. Yes, this is.

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.800
<v Speaker 4>Something that I've seen time and time again from history

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.840
<v Speaker 4>where the person they're writing about all but comes out

0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 4>and says it and it's like, ooh, what was the

0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:08.399
<v Speaker 4>relationship here? And it's like, well, you can read what

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.400
<v Speaker 4>they wrote where they talked about how they have it's

0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.800
<v Speaker 4>a sexual one, or he can act like it's like

0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:13.840
<v Speaker 4>very cloudy.

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we just do it as they do in Greece,

0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.879
<v Speaker 2>and we're buried next to each other, like uh huh.

0:18:23.160 --> 0:18:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:18:23.480 --> 0:18:27.640
<v Speaker 2>So he self publishes two poetry books, right, and then

0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:30.119
<v Speaker 2>his third book finds a publisher and it's called his

0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>first published book by someone else's called Hours of Idleness,

0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's not particularly impressive. It is widely panned. People

0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.400
<v Speaker 2>are like, it's no good, it's derivative. I honestly didn't

0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.000
<v Speaker 2>totally love his poetry, so I'm not going to like

0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.719
<v Speaker 2>include much of it in this episode. I actually really

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:48.639
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of his contemporaries poetry like Percy Shelley,

0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 2>which I'm not going to quote in here. But anyway,

0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.080
<v Speaker 2>so he turned around and he wrote poems making fun

0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:59.360
<v Speaker 2>of his reviewers, and these were his first good poems

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.720
<v Speaker 2>that people like, where his poems talking shit and if

0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:07.760
<v Speaker 2>you want to talk shit, you can talk shit about

0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>are well, no, you should never talk shit about our advertisers.

0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 2>We think that all of them are perfect in every way,

0:19:13.400 --> 0:19:16.680
<v Speaker 2>especially the ones that are about things that go exactly

0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:30.040
<v Speaker 2>against everything that we believe in. Here's Dad's and we're back.

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 2>So he won't dance for obvious reasons, but he is

0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 2>an athlete. He is a fairly obsessive athlete. He's not

0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:41.480
<v Speaker 2>particularly talented, he's not particularly bad at it either, but

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.119
<v Speaker 2>he's like always like swimming canals and doing all of

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 2>this stuff right his whole life. And he ends up

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.639
<v Speaker 2>going to the same college, Trinity College at Cambridge, that

0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.600
<v Speaker 2>are later bisexual hero Oscar Wilde would go to almost

0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:57.440
<v Speaker 2>a century later, and they're both into boxing, and they

0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:01.520
<v Speaker 2>both self publish bad poetry while in college. And I

0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:03.600
<v Speaker 2>just we did an episode about him like a month ago,

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.600
<v Speaker 2>and I just I'm going to forget the name Trinity

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.159
<v Speaker 2>College like in three months, but for now it sticks

0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.240
<v Speaker 2>in my mind, top of mind. He gets out of

0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 2>college and he starts doing what he's really good at,

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:19.040
<v Speaker 2>becoming a wandering vagabond, and fuck boy, this is nit

0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:22.440
<v Speaker 2>his niche niche. How do you pronounce that word niche?

0:20:22.520 --> 0:20:24.200
<v Speaker 3>I think I've heard both.

0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:25.960
<v Speaker 4>I know, it's one of those words that whenever I

0:20:26.000 --> 0:20:29.160
<v Speaker 4>say on a podcast, I second guess myself.

0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.040
<v Speaker 3>Yoh, I don't know tbd.

0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:36.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he went on a grand tour like all rich

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.399
<v Speaker 2>assholes do when they're like done the school, you know,

0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:42.000
<v Speaker 2>and they traveling around and now, don't get me wrong,

0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.760
<v Speaker 2>dropping out of college or finishing college and going and

0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:48.800
<v Speaker 2>wandering around for a couple of years or whatever. That's fine.

0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.040
<v Speaker 2>It's a rich asshole move when you have all of

0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:57.240
<v Speaker 2>your friends and servants in your meningerie with you, that's

0:20:57.240 --> 0:20:57.680
<v Speaker 2>that going.

0:20:57.720 --> 0:21:01.600
<v Speaker 4>It's like what an artist, like a musician, goes on tour,

0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:03.359
<v Speaker 4>Like everybody's.

0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:03.320
<v Speaker 3>Coming with us.

0:21:03.359 --> 0:21:05.919
<v Speaker 4>We've gotta cook, get a servant and a cleaner, and

0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 4>everybody that I'm sleeping with all in one group.

0:21:08.320 --> 0:21:11.600
<v Speaker 2>Yep, which is often for him an overlap between those

0:21:11.680 --> 0:21:12.560
<v Speaker 2>various positions.

0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 3>It actually doesn't sound bad. I'm not gonna know, it's not.

0:21:16.000 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 2>He's lived a final life and like there's only one

0:21:20.359 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>thing that is gonna comp up in his life that

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.960
<v Speaker 2>may not have been consensual on his part, and like

0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:29.399
<v Speaker 2>even that, honestly, I'm not so sure, at least in

0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:33.960
<v Speaker 2>everything that I've read. So he's off adventuring, and the

0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.320
<v Speaker 2>Napoleonic Wars have like shut down Europe to travel, right,

0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:40.399
<v Speaker 2>it's not a good idea to go wander around with

0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:44.639
<v Speaker 2>peacocks and like your lovers around Europe. So he goes

0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:49.159
<v Speaker 2>to the Mediterranean, and he also picked that area, and

0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.280
<v Speaker 2>he wrote about this, and again people didn't bother me.

0:21:51.400 --> 0:21:53.159
<v Speaker 2>They're like, oh, it's just the wars. He picked that

0:21:53.200 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 2>area because homosexuality is more tolerated and autumn and controlled

0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.880
<v Speaker 2>areas than European areas. He was also into like esoteric

0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.520
<v Speaker 2>shit and orientalism. He's pretty into like being a white

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.639
<v Speaker 2>guy in a Sufi mysticism and all that shit.

0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 4>I feel like, I know guys like this. This is

0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:11.800
<v Speaker 4>as like you're just like this as a type. This

0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:12.920
<v Speaker 4>guy is still out there.

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he is the first, and I was gonna say finest,

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:21.199
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not sure. But I challenge if you are

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:22.679
<v Speaker 2>listening to this and you're like, I'm kind of this

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of asshole, commit your life and possibly lose your

0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:29.639
<v Speaker 2>life to progressive causes of liberation. That's what I'm gonna say.

0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:33.920
<v Speaker 2>That's the thing you should do, and always stay consensual.

0:22:34.960 --> 0:22:38.080
<v Speaker 2>The sketchiest thing that we can immediately point to is

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:40.639
<v Speaker 2>that during these travels, and he's just out of college,

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.640
<v Speaker 2>he is almost certainly fucking a fourteen year old boy

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.400
<v Speaker 2>who's like with him on these travels, and he's also

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.280
<v Speaker 2>in love with like every woman he meets, including three sisters,

0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:54.080
<v Speaker 2>one of whom is twelve. However, usually when people are

0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:56.120
<v Speaker 2>like he is in love with it means that he's

0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.520
<v Speaker 2>fucking them. I actually don't think he's fucking these sisters. Then,

0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:01.880
<v Speaker 2>the most part is that the only thing that's abnormal

0:23:01.920 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 2>about what I just described is that one of them

0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:06.480
<v Speaker 2>as a boy for the time. This is not to

0:23:06.480 --> 0:23:09.160
<v Speaker 2>say it was all right, but it wasn't a thing

0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.760
<v Speaker 2>that people bothered to note as weird. He starts writing

0:23:12.800 --> 0:23:17.159
<v Speaker 2>epic travelog poetry. His first successes came from a poem

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:21.000
<v Speaker 2>called Child Harold's Pilgrimage, and this did real well, like

0:23:21.640 --> 0:23:25.639
<v Speaker 2>selling tens of thousands of copies right away. Byron says,

0:23:25.680 --> 0:23:29.359
<v Speaker 2>I awoke one morning and found myself famous. Anywhere you

0:23:29.400 --> 0:23:32.199
<v Speaker 2>go in England, someone has either read this or is

0:23:32.280 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 2>talking to someone who has read this. I can't imagine

0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:41.240
<v Speaker 2>poetry ever finding that same niche in society ever. Again,

0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm just gonna switch between niche and niche every single

0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:44.720
<v Speaker 2>time I say it. That's my plan.

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:47.600
<v Speaker 3>I like it. The only poem, the only poet that

0:23:47.640 --> 0:23:49.000
<v Speaker 3>I can think of like that is.

0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:54.119
<v Speaker 4>Who's the poet who writes kind of sparse poems that

0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:54.600
<v Speaker 4>It's like.

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:56.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to embarrass myself by not knowing.

0:23:56.680 --> 0:23:58.920
<v Speaker 3>Her first name is Rupee. She's very famous.

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.080
<v Speaker 4>Okay, she might have been dating Corey Booker for a while,

0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:04.520
<v Speaker 4>like like she's the last poet that I remember that like.

0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Blew up everywhere, k A you are, and.

0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:13.440
<v Speaker 4>Every every poem is like the lines, the breaks are

0:24:13.440 --> 0:24:17.320
<v Speaker 4>really interesting, so it'll be like the milk line break

0:24:17.640 --> 0:24:19.879
<v Speaker 4>in my heart line break. Like it's like very like

0:24:19.960 --> 0:24:22.280
<v Speaker 4>the poems are sparse and broken on the page in

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 4>a specific kind of way.

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:25.200
<v Speaker 2>These go on Instagram a lot, right.

0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:27.800
<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's like Instagram famous poet.

0:24:27.960 --> 0:24:31.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, which is that's her name it? But I think

0:24:31.680 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 1>it's I think it's not Ruby.

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 3>I think it's Rupee Rupee, Yes, thank.

0:24:35.840 --> 0:24:38.880
<v Speaker 1>You, Yes, so yeah, check her out.

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I think that we've just hit this place where it's

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.959
<v Speaker 2>just a media saturation thing where it's like because at

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:47.040
<v Speaker 2>the same time you're like, oh, the novelist and you're like, oh,

0:24:47.080 --> 0:24:50.320
<v Speaker 2>which one. There's ten there are ten novelists available for

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:54.719
<v Speaker 2>you to listen to to read, you know, and now

0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:57.879
<v Speaker 2>everyone can write novels and that's great, but it does

0:24:57.960 --> 0:25:01.919
<v Speaker 2>make it harder to become an overnight success. He was

0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 2>writing basically pulp fiction adventure tales about different wandering fuck boys,

0:25:06.800 --> 0:25:09.959
<v Speaker 2>but in poetry form it has lots of Orientalism. Literally,

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:13.199
<v Speaker 2>these are referred to as his Oriental tales, and his

0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:17.800
<v Speaker 2>particular obsession is with Greece and Albania. And since he's

0:25:17.840 --> 0:25:19.840
<v Speaker 2>a lord, as soon as he comes of age, he

0:25:19.880 --> 0:25:22.160
<v Speaker 2>goes and he joins the House of Lords. I again

0:25:22.320 --> 0:25:24.920
<v Speaker 2>refuse to know if this is automatic, but he is

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:29.520
<v Speaker 2>now in government because because an uncle died, right, that's

0:25:29.640 --> 0:25:34.159
<v Speaker 2>how government should work. He gives three speeches total his

0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:38.600
<v Speaker 2>entire career, and all of them are super radical and

0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 2>unpopular because he's politically he's really fucking cool. The first

0:25:44.119 --> 0:25:46.439
<v Speaker 2>speech he gives there I actually covered in the episode

0:25:46.440 --> 0:25:49.720
<v Speaker 2>about the Lattites. Basically, all of these people are rioters,

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.480
<v Speaker 2>are destroying machinery that was destroying their livelihood. They didn't

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:55.359
<v Speaker 2>hate technology, they hated specific technology that was putting them

0:25:55.359 --> 0:25:58.560
<v Speaker 2>out of a job. It's very applicable to a lot

0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 2>of people. Right now, we're listening to this m HM

0:26:02.320 --> 0:26:05.600
<v Speaker 2>and the House of Lords was considering a bill that

0:26:05.640 --> 0:26:09.000
<v Speaker 2>they passed which was let hang everyone who breaks machines,

0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 2>because that's England's solution to everything at this point. Hangings, yeah,

0:26:14.119 --> 0:26:16.159
<v Speaker 2>just public hangings, which to be fair is a lot

0:26:16.280 --> 0:26:18.440
<v Speaker 2>less gruesome than what England was doing to kill people

0:26:18.440 --> 0:26:21.560
<v Speaker 2>about two hundred years earlier. So he stands up and

0:26:21.560 --> 0:26:24.520
<v Speaker 2>he gives this long speech about like, hey, actually the

0:26:24.600 --> 0:26:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Luddites are kind of cool and at very least don't

0:26:27.119 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 2>murder them. His second speech in the House of Lords

0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:34.520
<v Speaker 2>was what if we treated the Catholics over in Ireland

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:36.960
<v Speaker 2>a little bit better? Huh how about that? Doesn't that

0:26:37.000 --> 0:26:41.560
<v Speaker 2>seem like a good plan? That one was equally unpopular.

0:26:41.880 --> 0:26:44.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I can't imagine that going over well.

0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:49.439
<v Speaker 2>No, and like, Okay, the one cool thing about an

0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:51.439
<v Speaker 2>inherent nobility is that every now and then you're just

0:26:51.440 --> 0:26:53.640
<v Speaker 2>gonna have this guy who's just like, I guess I'm

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.080
<v Speaker 2>in government now, but I fucking hate all of you,

0:26:56.600 --> 0:26:59.840
<v Speaker 2>like because he's not trying to play nice with the

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:02.439
<v Speaker 2>House of Lords. He doesn't care about any of this stuff,

0:27:02.520 --> 0:27:04.880
<v Speaker 2>you know. All he cares about is getting his dick

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:09.920
<v Speaker 2>wet and like writing poetry and wandering around and actually

0:27:10.160 --> 0:27:13.000
<v Speaker 2>trying to be nice to everyone constantly, and like really

0:27:13.040 --> 0:27:16.360
<v Speaker 2>like he gives all of his stuff away constantly. He

0:27:16.440 --> 0:27:21.359
<v Speaker 2>is selfish romantically in some ways, but he's also he

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:23.679
<v Speaker 2>doesn't care when the people he sleeps asleep with other people,

0:27:23.880 --> 0:27:27.600
<v Speaker 2>so I don't know. I don't So he spends four

0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.760
<v Speaker 2>years of his life in society, which is like I'm

0:27:30.760 --> 0:27:33.280
<v Speaker 2>gonna put in air quotes because he gets capitalized. This

0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.159
<v Speaker 2>is the rich asshole clique of five thousand people in

0:27:36.200 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>a city of one million that, like all of the

0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.560
<v Speaker 2>books and shit are all about. He is a rock

0:27:42.600 --> 0:27:44.920
<v Speaker 2>star when he enters society because he's just come back

0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.359
<v Speaker 2>from his grand tour and he's famous as hell, and

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:49.680
<v Speaker 2>so he's invited all the fancy poets and he either

0:27:49.720 --> 0:27:53.800
<v Speaker 2>starts seducing or honestly, the way that most histories present it,

0:27:54.560 --> 0:27:59.400
<v Speaker 2>being sought after by everyone in society. Everyone is trying

0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:02.959
<v Speaker 2>to fuck this guy. Everyone's like mailing him blocks of

0:28:03.040 --> 0:28:11.080
<v Speaker 2>hair and like writing him weird letters and shit, Yeah,

0:28:11.200 --> 0:28:12.240
<v Speaker 2>this fucking guy.

0:28:12.440 --> 0:28:14.840
<v Speaker 4>Like I mean, like it's like throwing a bra up

0:28:14.880 --> 0:28:18.160
<v Speaker 4>on stage or something, you know, like can't go anywhere

0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:20.359
<v Speaker 4>without people sending me.

0:28:20.359 --> 0:28:24.600
<v Speaker 2>A weird letter totally, And like I remember when at

0:28:24.640 --> 0:28:26.800
<v Speaker 2>some point there's this like reckoning that will eventually happen

0:28:26.800 --> 0:28:28.639
<v Speaker 2>to the history of rock and roll, where we realize

0:28:28.640 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 2>that all of these men are like mass rapists, right

0:28:32.440 --> 0:28:33.760
<v Speaker 2>and people are like, well, if you can't just like

0:28:33.800 --> 0:28:35.760
<v Speaker 2>randomly fucked group is, why would you be a rock star?

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know, like make music and like change

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.680
<v Speaker 2>people's lives and shit. And that's also say that you

0:28:40.680 --> 0:28:43.600
<v Speaker 2>can't have like wild consensual sex with lots of people.

0:28:43.640 --> 0:28:46.320
<v Speaker 2>But like, obviously the way that the rock stars were

0:28:46.320 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 2>doing it overall was not so good. Lord Byron starts

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:54.600
<v Speaker 2>up an affair with a woman named Lady Lamb, which

0:28:54.640 --> 0:28:58.000
<v Speaker 2>is a funny name. Her name is Lady Caroline. Lamb

0:28:58.520 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 2>definitely pursued him. She sent him a bunch of letters

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:04.360
<v Speaker 2>and lock of hair, and then she learned how to

0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:06.920
<v Speaker 2>copy his prose style and wrote him in his own

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:08.480
<v Speaker 2>voice to try and get his attention.

0:29:09.080 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 3>Whoa pretty intense, Lady Lamb.

0:29:12.640 --> 0:29:15.520
<v Speaker 2>She is going to get way more intense. This is

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the relationship that I like. I think they're just bad

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:22.400
<v Speaker 2>for each other, but it's like the relationship where he

0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:24.960
<v Speaker 2>is either the worst person or she is either the

0:29:24.960 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 2>worst person, or they're both just really bad for each other.

0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 4>Oh my god, I know this relationship where it's like

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:32.760
<v Speaker 4>both of y'all are really toxic and together it's like

0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:34.440
<v Speaker 4>unleashed something really wild.

0:29:34.760 --> 0:29:37.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally. You're like, well, yeah, no, he is absolutely

0:29:37.240 --> 0:29:40.320
<v Speaker 2>awful if in this context, and you're really awful in

0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 2>his context too, And I wish he would just get

0:29:42.080 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>away from each other. She called him while she was

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:48.880
<v Speaker 2>still pursuing him. She called him mad, bad, and dangerous

0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>to know, which is like the quote about him that

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:58.120
<v Speaker 2>it's not on his tombstone, but practically, and she wasn't wrong.

0:29:59.160 --> 0:30:03.640
<v Speaker 2>This relationship absolutely wrecks her. You could make the case

0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>that she was emotionally abusive to him. You could make

0:30:06.440 --> 0:30:08.600
<v Speaker 2>the case that she was acting in the ways that

0:30:08.680 --> 0:30:10.800
<v Speaker 2>she was because of the way that he was acting

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:14.960
<v Speaker 2>to her. I think I usually tend towards siding with

0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:19.440
<v Speaker 2>women in any such pairing. I couldn't tell you in

0:30:19.480 --> 0:30:22.440
<v Speaker 2>this case, and maybe that's because of there's entire books

0:30:22.440 --> 0:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>written for hundreds of years arguing one side or the other.

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:27.680
<v Speaker 2>It annoys me how much has been written about this, honestly,

0:30:27.720 --> 0:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>even though I'm like, I wish I knew more about it,

0:30:29.360 --> 0:30:30.880
<v Speaker 2>but I wish I knew more about it without having

0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 2>to read like all of these politicized triestises arguing one

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 2>position or the other. Lady Caroline Lamb was already married

0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:42.080
<v Speaker 2>to a future prime minister, but that did not stop

0:30:42.120 --> 0:30:44.520
<v Speaker 2>her and Lord Byron from having this very public affair,

0:30:45.160 --> 0:30:47.800
<v Speaker 2>which I think was kind of just normal in society.

0:30:47.840 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I think it was all just swingers, but they all

0:30:49.760 --> 0:30:51.200
<v Speaker 2>had weird rules about it.

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:52.640
<v Speaker 3>I think so too.

0:30:53.200 --> 0:30:57.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she would do things like mail him her pubic

0:30:57.160 --> 0:31:00.960
<v Speaker 2>hair cut so close there's still blood on it. That

0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 2>is a move, show up at his house, grab a

0:31:04.880 --> 0:31:07.360
<v Speaker 2>letter opener, and threaten to kill herself if he doesn't

0:31:07.440 --> 0:31:11.520
<v Speaker 2>date her, and she's mad that he's not faithful to

0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>her even though she's married. On the other hand, I

0:31:15.200 --> 0:31:18.120
<v Speaker 2>think he's fucking her. Mother in law.

0:31:21.160 --> 0:31:22.959
<v Speaker 3>Is one messy.

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's messy, then there's fucking mother he's getting He's

0:31:29.920 --> 0:31:30.760
<v Speaker 1>gonna get messier.

0:31:31.400 --> 0:31:33.960
<v Speaker 2>Both of them are going to get messier. What's messier

0:31:34.000 --> 0:31:36.280
<v Speaker 2>than mother in law? Half sister?

0:31:36.760 --> 0:31:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh god, I think mother in law is messier.

0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, wait, I'm I think his own half sister.

0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:45.600
<v Speaker 2>He is half sister.

0:31:46.040 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 3>His half sister might up.

0:31:50.000 --> 0:31:52.680
<v Speaker 2>With his wife, but we'll get to that. He's not

0:31:52.720 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 2>married yet at this point, sir. Yeah, So he hates

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.360
<v Speaker 2>dances because he can't dance because of his club foot,

0:32:01.080 --> 0:32:03.760
<v Speaker 2>but he goes to dances with her, and he's embarrassed

0:32:03.760 --> 0:32:06.560
<v Speaker 2>because she dances with everyone else, and so eventually he's like,

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:08.920
<v Speaker 2>if we go to these dances, you can't dance with

0:32:08.960 --> 0:32:12.920
<v Speaker 2>anyone else, which is him being controlling whatever. After he

0:32:13.040 --> 0:32:16.200
<v Speaker 2>leaves her, she gets wilder. At one point, he's getting

0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:19.520
<v Speaker 2>his portrait done, so she copies his style of writing

0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:22.040
<v Speaker 2>and writes the portrait artist and is like, oh yeah,

0:32:22.080 --> 0:32:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll like send somebody by to pick up that painting.

0:32:25.560 --> 0:32:27.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm totally Lord Byron.

0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:30.160
<v Speaker 4>These people would have loved being in an era where

0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 4>you could have digital drama, because like, yeah, like forging

0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.280
<v Speaker 4>someone's way of speaking, and then I guess the person's like, well,

0:32:36.320 --> 0:32:36.960
<v Speaker 4>sounds like him.

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:37.720
<v Speaker 3>I guess that's right.

0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:40.280
<v Speaker 4>Like imagine the damage these two could have done to

0:32:40.320 --> 0:32:42.320
<v Speaker 4>each other with Instagram.

0:32:42.560 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh absolutely, the friend's only close friends stories that these two.

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Were, stories with like quotes like oh my god, all

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:54.920
<v Speaker 1>of Koe Kardashian style dramatic quotes.

0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:58.040
<v Speaker 2>And they would be like screen capping I noticed you

0:32:58.080 --> 0:33:00.400
<v Speaker 2>saw my story but didn't heart react it and then

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:05.080
<v Speaker 2>like sending that to each other nikes. So she steals

0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 2>this portrait of him and won't give it back unless

0:33:07.600 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>he sends a lock of his hair. This is after

0:33:09.560 --> 0:33:12.960
<v Speaker 2>they're broken up, so he sends a lock of his

0:33:13.040 --> 0:33:16.719
<v Speaker 2>new lover's hair instead. I'm not sure whether it was like, haha,

0:33:16.720 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 2>fuck you is my new lover's hair, or if he

0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:21.440
<v Speaker 2>was pretending it was his own. Later he's going to

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:24.080
<v Speaker 2>like straight up like write her back from like his

0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:27.520
<v Speaker 2>new lovers of address and shit, just to piss her off.

0:33:29.480 --> 0:33:31.840
<v Speaker 2>At one point, he runs across her at a dance

0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:34.320
<v Speaker 2>and she's like, well, I guess I can dance now,

0:33:34.400 --> 0:33:37.000
<v Speaker 2>ha ha ha, because I'm not dating you anymore. And

0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 2>he's like, sure, because you dance with everyone in a

0:33:40.120 --> 0:33:43.720
<v Speaker 2>like you're a dirty slut kind of implied way. Right,

0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>So she smashes a glass and starts cutting at her

0:33:47.280 --> 0:33:51.120
<v Speaker 2>wrist in front of everyone. She does not seriously wound herself,

0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:54.480
<v Speaker 2>but this is not great. So they're bad for each other,

0:33:54.600 --> 0:33:56.360
<v Speaker 2>and they're bad to be in the same society as

0:33:56.360 --> 0:34:00.400
<v Speaker 2>each other, and she wants him back to the end

0:34:00.400 --> 0:34:04.280
<v Speaker 2>of her life. None of the people who lives he

0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:08.120
<v Speaker 2>wrecking Balld stop spending the rest of their life even

0:34:08.160 --> 0:34:12.400
<v Speaker 2>after he dies, pining for him. I am guessing this

0:34:12.440 --> 0:34:14.400
<v Speaker 2>man could fuck yeah.

0:34:14.440 --> 0:34:17.080
<v Speaker 4>I mean when the hold lasts longer than your actual

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:20.120
<v Speaker 4>life on this earth when you've died, and they're still like, hm,

0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:21.240
<v Speaker 4>the one that got away.

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:23.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that really says something.

0:34:23.520 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And he, like I does, I think on some

0:34:26.160 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 2>level genuinely cares for her, and he's like writing her

0:34:28.080 --> 0:34:30.200
<v Speaker 2>for a long time, but then like after they're breaking up,

0:34:30.239 --> 0:34:33.200
<v Speaker 2>he's like, oh, I should probably really stop writing her

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:33.680
<v Speaker 2>and stuff.

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:33.880
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:37.360
<v Speaker 2>At one point in desperation, she builds a huge bonfire

0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and makes all the servant women. It's like it's like

0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 2>all of the women in town, but I think it's

0:34:41.000 --> 0:34:43.160
<v Speaker 2>like her town, because she's like, fucking she's a higher

0:34:43.239 --> 0:34:45.880
<v Speaker 2>up richer, noble, right, So it's like all the women

0:34:45.920 --> 0:34:47.880
<v Speaker 2>have to like come out and like burn all of

0:34:47.920 --> 0:34:50.319
<v Speaker 2>his shit, like all of the trinkets and letters and

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:52.880
<v Speaker 2>stuff that he sent her in a big public spectacle.

0:34:53.719 --> 0:34:55.799
<v Speaker 2>And then and this far it's fun. I kind of

0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.759
<v Speaker 2>like this. She's like, fuck my own reputation, I am

0:34:58.800 --> 0:35:01.359
<v Speaker 2>going to write a novel about this man with a

0:35:01.400 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 2>thinly disguised chriacature of Byron named Lord Ruthven. Because she's

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:08.360
<v Speaker 2>actually a really good writer on her own right, and

0:35:08.400 --> 0:35:10.279
<v Speaker 2>she writes this whole Gothic novel at a different point

0:35:10.280 --> 0:35:11.600
<v Speaker 2>that I haven't read yet but kind of want to.

0:35:11.640 --> 0:35:15.600
<v Speaker 2>It seems up my alley. So she puts this out

0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:20.400
<v Speaker 2>and it like torpedoes are standing in society. But it

0:35:20.480 --> 0:35:22.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of takes him down a little bit too. Right.

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:27.200
<v Speaker 2>Of all the affairs he started, the most scandalous besides

0:35:27.239 --> 0:35:29.799
<v Speaker 2>the men that he can't admit he's fucking, is that

0:35:29.840 --> 0:35:32.719
<v Speaker 2>he is fucking his half sister Augusta. There's a lot

0:35:32.760 --> 0:35:36.520
<v Speaker 2>of like, oh, maybe he is fucking his half sister Augusta.

0:35:36.560 --> 0:35:39.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go on a limb here, and this

0:35:39.320 --> 0:35:41.759
<v Speaker 2>is his father's kid from a previous marriage. It is

0:35:41.760 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 2>scandalous because it is incest, but it is not as

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:47.640
<v Speaker 2>scandalous as it could be. I am not making I

0:35:47.680 --> 0:35:49.960
<v Speaker 2>am making a moral judgment. My moral judgment is separate

0:35:50.000 --> 0:35:52.239
<v Speaker 2>from the one that I am now describing. The moral

0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:55.880
<v Speaker 2>judgment of this pre Victorian English society is that it's

0:35:55.920 --> 0:35:57.560
<v Speaker 2>not as scandalous as it could be because they did

0:35:57.560 --> 0:36:00.399
<v Speaker 2>not grow up together, it did not really know each

0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:03.040
<v Speaker 2>other too well until they were adults, and because of

0:36:03.040 --> 0:36:07.320
<v Speaker 2>the fact that they had different mothers rather than different fathers.

0:36:07.320 --> 0:36:09.880
<v Speaker 1>Some Game of Thrones, ash ship Margaret.

0:36:10.520 --> 0:36:13.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The more I read history, the more I'm like,

0:36:13.320 --> 0:36:16.759
<v Speaker 2>George R. Martin was just just pulling on some he was.

0:36:16.719 --> 0:36:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Just he was just going off of what actually happened. Yes,

0:36:20.280 --> 0:36:22.960
<v Speaker 1>with some with some magic and some dragons mixed in.

0:36:23.200 --> 0:36:24.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. God, I wish we.

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Had dragons like that.

0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:26.879
<v Speaker 2>I know.

0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:32.400
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I would commit war crimes or a dragon. A dragon,

0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:35.520
<v Speaker 1>I would write a dragon and you're blonde.

0:36:35.960 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 3>I am yeah, not a dragon.

0:36:38.640 --> 0:36:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I don't.

0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:41.680
<v Speaker 1>But I'm not into the incest.

0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, Oh you're not weird.

0:36:44.320 --> 0:36:50.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry. That's a firm modern sensibility, the incest dragon writing. Yes,

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 2>that's about it. So at this point, Lord Byron, who

0:36:56.160 --> 0:37:00.360
<v Speaker 2>was not successfully acquired a dragon, is like, I know,

0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 2>He's like, I better get married to quell this scandal.

0:37:03.840 --> 0:37:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Plus I keep blowing all my money, so I better

0:37:06.600 --> 0:37:10.640
<v Speaker 2>marry someone rich. He refused to take money for poetry

0:37:10.719 --> 0:37:16.600
<v Speaker 2>because of like weird nobility ethics. But the cool thing

0:37:16.640 --> 0:37:18.560
<v Speaker 2>he did is that he gave away the copyright to

0:37:18.600 --> 0:37:22.839
<v Speaker 2>his works to like anyone who like needed money. Like,

0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:24.279
<v Speaker 2>instead of being like, oh, I made some money off

0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:26.360
<v Speaker 2>my work, here's the money for it, he just a

0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:29.080
<v Speaker 2>straight up like, ah, it's your poem. Now you can

0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:30.480
<v Speaker 2>sell it under my name. I don't care.

0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:32.759
<v Speaker 3>That's kind of bad ass, I know.

0:37:33.400 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Like his political ethics, I'm chill with. And I also

0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.000
<v Speaker 2>understand why, coming from the society that he does, he

0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:48.920
<v Speaker 2>spits on conventional morality. You know, I just think that

0:37:48.920 --> 0:37:54.840
<v Speaker 2>there's some babies in bathwater problem happening. But most people

0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 2>paint this marriage as a marriage of convenience that he

0:37:58.440 --> 0:37:59.160
<v Speaker 2>ends up in.

0:38:00.080 --> 0:38:00.600
<v Speaker 3>I see why.

0:38:00.640 --> 0:38:03.200
<v Speaker 2>The two of them get along pretty well. He marries

0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:06.440
<v Speaker 2>a woman named Anna Isabella Millbank or Annabella for short,

0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:09.920
<v Speaker 2>who is mostly known to history as Lady Byron. She

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:12.239
<v Speaker 2>is interesting in her own right. We're actually going to

0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:14.239
<v Speaker 2>talk about her more in the second half of this

0:38:15.239 --> 0:38:19.360
<v Speaker 2>particular episode. She is his opposite in all ways but politics.

0:38:19.640 --> 0:38:23.280
<v Speaker 2>She's like into non hedonism, and she likes math not poetry.

0:38:24.480 --> 0:38:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And she also said no the first time he proposed

0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:30.319
<v Speaker 2>to her, which probably just like is probably why he

0:38:30.360 --> 0:38:31.000
<v Speaker 2>was so into her.

0:38:31.239 --> 0:38:31.440
<v Speaker 5>You know.

0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:38.120
<v Speaker 2>They get married at his new wife's insistence, his half

0:38:38.120 --> 0:38:42.160
<v Speaker 2>sister and lover, Augusta, moves in with the couple. Okay,

0:38:42.920 --> 0:38:45.480
<v Speaker 2>most nights, Annabella is on the couch and Augusta's in

0:38:45.520 --> 0:38:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the marriage bed is the way that it is often phrased.

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:49.799
<v Speaker 2>I think that there's a chance of that is a

0:38:49.840 --> 0:38:54.920
<v Speaker 2>triad and not talked about. And plus he's just running

0:38:54.920 --> 0:38:59.000
<v Speaker 2>around fucking other people. This marriage does not last. This

0:38:59.040 --> 0:38:59.920
<v Speaker 2>is going to be shocking.

0:39:00.800 --> 0:39:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Surprises me. What was that? A solid foundation?

0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:08.399
<v Speaker 2>I know last less than a year. All that came

0:39:08.440 --> 0:39:11.720
<v Speaker 2>out of it was Annabella's life being like pretty fucked

0:39:11.760 --> 0:39:14.000
<v Speaker 2>up by it all. And they had a daughter named

0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:20.399
<v Speaker 2>Augusta Ada because Ada Lovelace is named after the half

0:39:20.440 --> 0:39:23.240
<v Speaker 2>sister that her dad is banging.

0:39:24.080 --> 0:39:25.240
<v Speaker 3>It's pretty messy.

0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:32.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Shortly after Ada's birth, Annabella takes Ada and leaves

0:39:32.320 --> 0:39:36.000
<v Speaker 2>her husband, but Annabella doesn't stop loving and caring for

0:39:36.080 --> 0:39:40.760
<v Speaker 2>Lord Byron. Annabella is like, you are fucking insane. That's

0:39:40.800 --> 0:39:45.279
<v Speaker 2>what's happening here is you are non She was like,

0:39:46.080 --> 0:39:49.520
<v Speaker 2>my ex husband is neurodivergent in ways that are problematic.

0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.080
<v Speaker 2>Is the way she would have phrased it in her Instagram.

0:39:53.080 --> 0:39:57.120
<v Speaker 2>She would not have been messy on Instagram. Well she

0:39:57.120 --> 0:39:59.040
<v Speaker 2>would have had to be because he would have been

0:39:59.080 --> 0:39:59.840
<v Speaker 2>messy on Instagram.

0:40:00.160 --> 0:40:00.239
<v Speaker 1>Her.

0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:02.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, you get you get pulled into this stuff, even

0:40:02.640 --> 0:40:04.320
<v Speaker 4>if you are not the kind of person who is

0:40:04.360 --> 0:40:07.200
<v Speaker 4>messy on Instagram. When you're in the orbit of people

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:08.520
<v Speaker 4>who are you get pulled in.

0:40:09.360 --> 0:40:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Lord Byron never sees his daughter again, but he

0:40:17.239 --> 0:40:20.120
<v Speaker 2>like writes about her constantly in his poetry. This is

0:40:20.200 --> 0:40:23.560
<v Speaker 2>like the great loss in his life that he's not

0:40:23.760 --> 0:40:25.360
<v Speaker 2>more part of his daughter's life as far as I

0:40:25.400 --> 0:40:30.680
<v Speaker 2>can tell. And Annabella Mom continues to think fondly of

0:40:30.680 --> 0:40:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Lord Byron for a long time, but is like pretty like,

0:40:34.120 --> 0:40:36.680
<v Speaker 2>but you got to stay no influence. My kid cannot

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:38.680
<v Speaker 2>end up like you. You're just a weird crazy man

0:40:38.760 --> 0:40:43.799
<v Speaker 2>that I miss and who's like soul. She's constantly trying

0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:49.200
<v Speaker 2>to say, she's really religious. So in eighteen sixteen, Byron

0:40:49.320 --> 0:40:52.600
<v Speaker 2>left England for good. Most accounts refer to the scandal

0:40:52.640 --> 0:40:56.279
<v Speaker 2>of the failed marriage, but his own correspondence was like, yeah,

0:40:56.360 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 2>I could get hanged for you know the way I

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:02.759
<v Speaker 2>like to have sex, which is with men. But what

0:41:02.960 --> 0:41:11.880
<v Speaker 2>isn't a hanging offence is taking advantage of these sweet deals.

0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:13.600
<v Speaker 2>This is the worst one. This is the worst one

0:41:13.640 --> 0:41:19.399
<v Speaker 2>I've ever done. It's like Robert Evans level. I know,

0:41:19.520 --> 0:41:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I I try to rise above such it's because I'm

0:41:22.600 --> 0:41:25.799
<v Speaker 2>doing someone who isn't actually because I'm doing someone who

0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:30.880
<v Speaker 2>could easily be a bastard. That's why valid valid. But

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:34.959
<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean that these deals are bastards. The fact

0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.640
<v Speaker 2>that they are is completely unrelated. Here's the ads geesus.

0:41:38.680 --> 0:41:41.440
<v Speaker 3>You you got there. I feel like you got there.

0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:42.960
<v Speaker 3>You laided the plane.

0:41:54.280 --> 0:41:58.520
<v Speaker 2>So we're back, much like our wanderers, back to wandering.

0:41:59.280 --> 0:42:02.840
<v Speaker 2>This time I'm among his uh menoche. He brings a

0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Catholic personal physician named Polardari, whom he was probably fucking.

0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Who is a man, and he was probably fucking Polardari.

0:42:11.920 --> 0:42:14.359
<v Speaker 1>No one. I don't try him to do anything else

0:42:14.400 --> 0:42:18.800
<v Speaker 1>when he's just consistently fucking all the time.

0:42:19.280 --> 0:42:19.480
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:23.040
<v Speaker 2>He writes about writing poetry as like it's like hard,

0:42:23.120 --> 0:42:26.160
<v Speaker 2>and he does that annoying thing where writers are like,

0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.840
<v Speaker 2>this is the hardest thing anyone's ever done. I am

0:42:29.400 --> 0:42:32.120
<v Speaker 2>forcing the muse out of me or whatever, you know,

0:42:32.680 --> 0:42:34.759
<v Speaker 2>because I think the thing that he actually enjoys, yeah,

0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:39.920
<v Speaker 2>is just having sex constantly. He was absolutely nagging and

0:42:40.000 --> 0:42:43.080
<v Speaker 2>monstrous to Polardari if they were dating. Whether or not

0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:46.560
<v Speaker 2>they were dating, he was absolutely just like pretty verbally

0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 2>abusive to Polardari. And so that kind of implies that

0:42:50.520 --> 0:42:54.560
<v Speaker 2>that might have been. He has tempestuous moods, and so

0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:56.560
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of the way that people are

0:42:56.560 --> 0:42:59.080
<v Speaker 2>behaving around him is like understandable in that context. You know,

0:43:01.120 --> 0:43:04.160
<v Speaker 2>he settles in Switzerland, where the most famous thing about

0:43:04.239 --> 0:43:08.359
<v Speaker 2>him happens. Well from the modern sense, at the time,

0:43:08.400 --> 0:43:10.200
<v Speaker 2>he was famous for like everything else. But at the time,

0:43:10.239 --> 0:43:12.040
<v Speaker 2>but now these days people are like, oh, yeah, the

0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:15.680
<v Speaker 2>guy whose fucking house Frankenstein was written at because he

0:43:15.760 --> 0:43:19.160
<v Speaker 2>was staying at some chateau or whatever the fucking Switzerland

0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:22.239
<v Speaker 2>for the summer. Because he's rich as fuck, you know,

0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:23.799
<v Speaker 2>he's like they're always like, oh, and then he was

0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:26.279
<v Speaker 2>like broken in debt, and they're like, there's noble rich,

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:29.720
<v Speaker 2>and then there's like normal people like like there's noble poor,

0:43:29.800 --> 0:43:33.520
<v Speaker 2>which is way the fuck above like even like middle

0:43:33.520 --> 0:43:34.080
<v Speaker 2>class rich.

0:43:34.560 --> 0:43:37.359
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, he's not broke, like like someone like me is broke.

0:43:37.400 --> 0:43:39.960
<v Speaker 4>I gu it's a different level of broke we're talking.

0:43:39.680 --> 0:43:44.120
<v Speaker 2>About, Yeah, exactly. So he's at the chateau. I've covered

0:43:44.120 --> 0:43:46.479
<v Speaker 2>this a little bit on other things. The writers Mary

0:43:46.520 --> 0:43:48.239
<v Speaker 2>Shelley and Percy Shelley show up to his house in

0:43:48.239 --> 0:43:50.200
<v Speaker 2>Switzerland on the lake. They spend the summer and the

0:43:50.280 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 2>year without a summer there because the reason the year

0:43:53.640 --> 0:43:55.879
<v Speaker 2>was without a summers because some volcanos fucked up the weather.

0:43:56.840 --> 0:43:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Guests in the hotel across the lake would pay to

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:02.640
<v Speaker 2>use telescope to spy on the famous rockstar poets over there,

0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and people like to conjecture about what they got up to,

0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:14.239
<v Speaker 2>and I suspect it was horny, but who knows. Mary

0:44:14.280 --> 0:44:19.000
<v Speaker 2>Shelley wrote Frankenstein there and invented science fiction. And Polodori,

0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:21.919
<v Speaker 2>the physician who was also there, who's never remembered because

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:23.879
<v Speaker 2>he's a servant, because there's a ton of people there,

0:44:23.880 --> 0:44:27.920
<v Speaker 2>because they have fucking servants there, who are people people

0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:28.680
<v Speaker 2>You can get that.

0:44:28.600 --> 0:44:32.400
<v Speaker 4>Fucking servants as in servants, they are fucking or fucking

0:44:32.560 --> 0:44:34.440
<v Speaker 4>servants like fucking servants.

0:44:34.800 --> 0:44:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I you know, probably both in this kind of a

0:44:36.840 --> 0:44:41.040
<v Speaker 2>little bit of both. Yeah, Polodori started writing The Vampire.

0:44:41.080 --> 0:44:42.520
<v Speaker 2>If you want to hear me do a reading of

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:45.919
<v Speaker 2>The Vampire, listen to Coolsone Media book Club. I read

0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:49.799
<v Speaker 2>it recently because it's about an evil, seductive vampire named

0:44:49.840 --> 0:44:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Lord Ruthven, the same name that Lady Lamb used to

0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.879
<v Speaker 2>make fun of Lord Byron and this Lord Ruthven, who

0:44:55.920 --> 0:44:59.759
<v Speaker 2>is clearly Byron, is traveling around with his friend around

0:44:59.840 --> 0:45:03.160
<v Speaker 2>year up especially the Mediterranean, and just fucking up people's lives.

0:45:03.760 --> 0:45:07.920
<v Speaker 2>And it is just the barest, most obvious. I am

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:09.919
<v Speaker 2>traveling with a vampire. What the fuck is my life?

0:45:10.520 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 2>Which is to say, Lord Byron is the first vampire,

0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:19.000
<v Speaker 2>and therefore I can tie computers back to vampires. It's

0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:19.600
<v Speaker 2>the whole.

0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:24.360
<v Speaker 4>Point, masterfully, that weaving is quite masterful.

0:45:24.640 --> 0:45:27.440
<v Speaker 2>Thanks with a ready yarn on a big bulletin board.

0:45:30.160 --> 0:45:32.640
<v Speaker 3>When you're using your computer, think vampires.

0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:36.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Bulladori is going to die young as hell,

0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:40.000
<v Speaker 2>probably by suicide. The toxicology reports are like, oh, it

0:45:40.120 --> 0:45:42.040
<v Speaker 2>was like some reason to think it might not have been.

0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:46.840
<v Speaker 2>His life was functionally ruined by Lord Byron. Or maybe

0:45:46.880 --> 0:45:49.000
<v Speaker 2>he died because he was sucked dry of all his

0:45:49.080 --> 0:45:52.719
<v Speaker 2>blood because Lord Byron is actually a vampire who's to tone.

0:45:54.680 --> 0:45:59.600
<v Speaker 2>After Switzerland, the vampire Lord Ruthven, sorry, Lord Byron went

0:45:59.640 --> 0:46:02.120
<v Speaker 2>on to where he slept his way into a secret

0:46:02.120 --> 0:46:05.720
<v Speaker 2>society trying to free Italy from the Austrians, which is cool.

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Then he started a newspaper called The Liberal, which is

0:46:09.080 --> 0:46:12.160
<v Speaker 2>about revolution because they liberals were made different back then.

0:46:13.640 --> 0:46:16.719
<v Speaker 2>He studied Armenian. He wrote I think the first English

0:46:16.800 --> 0:46:21.360
<v Speaker 2>language Armenian grammar book, but I'm not sure, and he

0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:23.960
<v Speaker 2>wrote about the needs for Armenian liberation. He kept fucking

0:46:23.960 --> 0:46:28.040
<v Speaker 2>people's wives the whole time. Of course, he would write

0:46:28.040 --> 0:46:30.719
<v Speaker 2>a three thousand word letter to his publisher back in

0:46:30.760 --> 0:46:34.239
<v Speaker 2>England just talking about how he's fucking the wife of

0:46:34.280 --> 0:46:35.200
<v Speaker 2>some baker.

0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:42.960
<v Speaker 4>Like like, his publisher is like, why are you telling

0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:43.200
<v Speaker 4>me this?

0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:44.240
<v Speaker 3>Where are your pages?

0:46:44.760 --> 0:46:48.080
<v Speaker 2>I know I can't publish this until you die, like,

0:46:49.719 --> 0:46:52.000
<v Speaker 2>and those letters are definitely published now because everything he

0:46:52.000 --> 0:46:58.360
<v Speaker 2>wrote that didn't get burned is published. But and meanwhile,

0:46:58.400 --> 0:47:01.400
<v Speaker 2>Greece is like, what have we didn't have Ottoman rulers anymore?

0:47:01.440 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 2>What if we were like Greece again? So you have

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:05.680
<v Speaker 2>the Greek War of Independence that goes from eighteen twenty

0:47:05.680 --> 0:47:08.880
<v Speaker 2>one to eighteen twenty nine. In eighteen twenty three, pretty

0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:13.200
<v Speaker 2>early on, Lord Byron joins in accounts that dislike him

0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:16.360
<v Speaker 2>are like he was like, oh, I'm so special and important.

0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:18.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to go become the king of Greece and

0:47:18.200 --> 0:47:20.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to be a famous war hero because war

0:47:20.320 --> 0:47:23.359
<v Speaker 2>is fun, adventure and I like adventure. I think there's

0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:26.399
<v Speaker 2>some of that, But I think it's two things happening. One,

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:29.759
<v Speaker 2>I think this man had a death wish. I think

0:47:29.800 --> 0:47:32.560
<v Speaker 2>he felt like his race was run at this point,

0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:35.919
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not sure that's my own conjecture. And Two,

0:47:36.080 --> 0:47:37.840
<v Speaker 2>the thing I know a little bit more about is

0:47:37.880 --> 0:47:41.160
<v Speaker 2>that Greek rebels were writing him, being like, hey, you

0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:43.239
<v Speaker 2>know how you like Greece and always write about us

0:47:43.280 --> 0:47:45.879
<v Speaker 2>and like exoticize us and made all your money writing

0:47:45.920 --> 0:47:47.480
<v Speaker 2>about it. Why actually he didn't take any money, made

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:50.040
<v Speaker 2>all your fame writing about us, Why don't you come

0:47:50.120 --> 0:47:54.239
<v Speaker 2>throw down? And so they talk him into going, and

0:47:54.320 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 2>he's like, yeah, all right, I talk a big game.

0:47:57.239 --> 0:47:59.399
<v Speaker 2>Time to fucking put my money where my mouth does.

0:47:59.400 --> 0:48:03.200
<v Speaker 2>He's in his mid thirties at this point. He sailed

0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:05.520
<v Speaker 2>to Greece. He had to dodge Ottoman patrols in order

0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:09.000
<v Speaker 2>to do it. He spent his fortune retrofitting the Greek

0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:11.800
<v Speaker 2>navy and supporting the rebel cause. Like literally, he sells

0:48:11.800 --> 0:48:15.520
<v Speaker 2>his estate in England like he actually now he like

0:48:15.640 --> 0:48:18.719
<v Speaker 2>actually goes broke for something, and he gives all of

0:48:18.760 --> 0:48:22.399
<v Speaker 2>his money to the cause, and especially a younger man

0:48:22.680 --> 0:48:25.400
<v Speaker 2>who he was trying to fuck but who didn't love

0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:31.640
<v Speaker 2>him back? And then he gets sick. It's the nineteenth century.

0:48:31.880 --> 0:48:34.800
<v Speaker 2>Don't catch a cold in the nineteenth century. But his

0:48:34.960 --> 0:48:38.520
<v Speaker 2>doctors they tried everything, you know what they tried. They

0:48:38.520 --> 0:48:42.200
<v Speaker 2>tried everything. They tried blood letting, they tried animas, they

0:48:42.239 --> 0:48:45.239
<v Speaker 2>even tried bringing up blisters on his skin. None of that,

0:48:45.360 --> 0:48:49.040
<v Speaker 2>friend was working. No, not of it, which is funny

0:48:49.040 --> 0:48:52.040
<v Speaker 2>because Polodari his like personal physician. That was the thing

0:48:52.080 --> 0:48:53.880
<v Speaker 2>he was trained into. There's a word for it. I

0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:55.360
<v Speaker 2>forget the word for it, but it's like the like

0:48:55.640 --> 0:48:57.719
<v Speaker 2>doctors at the time or like we have to get

0:48:57.760 --> 0:49:01.000
<v Speaker 2>the bad out of you through whatever, which is like,

0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:03.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you can physically remove an infection from your

0:49:03.920 --> 0:49:07.799
<v Speaker 2>body in certain contexts, but really it's like really rare,

0:49:07.840 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>like like if you have like a cut that's infected,

0:49:11.480 --> 0:49:14.640
<v Speaker 2>you can kind of don't I'm not advocating anyone do this.

0:49:14.760 --> 0:49:17.200
<v Speaker 2>You can kind of like get all that stuff out

0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:19.680
<v Speaker 2>of there and clean it again, you know, like if

0:49:19.719 --> 0:49:21.920
<v Speaker 2>you catch it early enough. I'm not This is not

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.080
<v Speaker 2>how you do medicine overall. There's every now and then

0:49:25.160 --> 0:49:27.040
<v Speaker 2>you can get the bad out of you. It is rare.

0:49:27.960 --> 0:49:30.319
<v Speaker 4>So when they were like putting leeches on people, it

0:49:30.360 --> 0:49:34.160
<v Speaker 4>wasn't like completely crazy that it's not based out of

0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:37.239
<v Speaker 4>absolutely nothing that that was going to be effective.

0:49:37.320 --> 0:49:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Maybe I know less about blood letting, okay, and I

0:49:42.680 --> 0:49:45.760
<v Speaker 2>only know a little bit about like removing like literally,

0:49:45.760 --> 0:49:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's just some things that you're like, oh,

0:49:47.080 --> 0:49:48.640
<v Speaker 2>we're going to go in and cut out that tumor,

0:49:48.560 --> 0:49:50.480
<v Speaker 2>or we're going to you know, so they're at least

0:49:50.480 --> 0:49:53.200
<v Speaker 2>coming from a cause of like, oh there's a bad

0:49:53.239 --> 0:49:55.400
<v Speaker 2>thing in you, We're going to remove it, right. You know.

0:49:56.120 --> 0:49:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I want to know more about this stuff because I

0:49:57.680 --> 0:50:00.000
<v Speaker 2>think eventually the way that we currently look at medicine

0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:01.480
<v Speaker 2>and is going to look as silly as the Four

0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Humors did, you know?

0:50:03.200 --> 0:50:04.280
<v Speaker 3>I totally agree.

0:50:04.800 --> 0:50:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they'll be like the way that we talk about

0:50:07.239 --> 0:50:09.520
<v Speaker 2>tuberculos is killing everyone and people are like, god this

0:50:09.560 --> 0:50:13.600
<v Speaker 2>people just didn't have antibiotics one day. If humanity survives

0:50:13.680 --> 0:50:16.160
<v Speaker 2>the current climate crisis, people are going to look back

0:50:16.200 --> 0:50:19.640
<v Speaker 2>and say that about cancer. You know, they're like Wow,

0:50:19.640 --> 0:50:21.480
<v Speaker 2>They'll be like given doing a history podcast and he'd

0:50:21.520 --> 0:50:23.160
<v Speaker 2>be like, you would't believe what this bitch died of

0:50:23.560 --> 0:50:26.400
<v Speaker 2>fucking cancer? Just everyone's just dying of cancer.

0:50:26.600 --> 0:50:29.359
<v Speaker 4>Don't get cancer in twenty twenty four, y'all. I know

0:50:29.680 --> 0:50:31.680
<v Speaker 4>we're making like pithy little jokes about it, like we

0:50:31.719 --> 0:50:32.320
<v Speaker 4>are now.

0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:35.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, exactly, and that will be good. I am glad that.

0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:37.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean, people still die of tuberculous all the time,

0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:42.080
<v Speaker 2>but that is a crime of poverty, not a anyway whatever.

0:50:43.480 --> 0:50:46.799
<v Speaker 2>So he's sick, and at one point he says there

0:50:46.800 --> 0:50:49.120
<v Speaker 2>are many more die of the lancet than the lance,

0:50:49.280 --> 0:50:52.080
<v Speaker 2>which is his pithy way of saying, I don't think

0:50:52.120 --> 0:50:54.280
<v Speaker 2>that all this blood letting is good for me. Later

0:50:54.360 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 2>doctors have been like, this is the reason he died

0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:58.080
<v Speaker 2>is they took out all of his blood while he

0:50:58.120 --> 0:51:02.720
<v Speaker 2>was trying to fight a cold. He died on April nineteenth,

0:51:02.760 --> 0:51:04.960
<v Speaker 2>eighteen twenty four, on the west coast of Greece, at

0:51:04.960 --> 0:51:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the age of thirty six. He never fought a battle

0:51:07.480 --> 0:51:10.080
<v Speaker 2>in Greece. He failed at uniting all the various factions

0:51:10.080 --> 0:51:12.320
<v Speaker 2>while he was alive. But while he was there he

0:51:12.360 --> 0:51:15.040
<v Speaker 2>did a fuck ton of humanitarian work for both Christians

0:51:15.040 --> 0:51:18.080
<v Speaker 2>and Muslims there, and he became a symbol and an

0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:21.280
<v Speaker 2>icon of Greek rebels, succeeding in death what he failed

0:51:21.280 --> 0:51:23.280
<v Speaker 2>to do in life, Like there's a suburb of Athens

0:51:23.320 --> 0:51:29.640
<v Speaker 2>that's named after him, and his friends immediately burn his

0:51:29.719 --> 0:51:33.279
<v Speaker 2>memoirs lest his reputation be forever tarred, tarred with what

0:51:33.960 --> 0:51:38.560
<v Speaker 2>I wish I knew, Like realistically, it's probably all the

0:51:38.640 --> 0:51:43.279
<v Speaker 2>stuff that I was like conjecturing about. But I don't know.

0:51:43.840 --> 0:51:46.200
<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's what happens when you're dangerous to know.

0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:52.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as he was dying, he said, let not my

0:51:52.120 --> 0:51:56.680
<v Speaker 2>body be hacked or sent to England. Both requests were denied.

0:51:57.360 --> 0:51:59.560
<v Speaker 2>His lungs or maybe his heart of read both were

0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:01.760
<v Speaker 2>like taken out and put in an urn in Greece,

0:52:01.800 --> 0:52:03.560
<v Speaker 2>so that Greece got to hold onto a little bit

0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:06.399
<v Speaker 2>of him their new hero, you know. And the rest

0:52:06.480 --> 0:52:09.640
<v Speaker 2>was sent to England. His body was sent to England,

0:52:09.920 --> 0:52:11.360
<v Speaker 2>and there was a place that was the most obvious

0:52:11.400 --> 0:52:13.839
<v Speaker 2>and logical place to bury him. In Westminster Abbey. There

0:52:13.880 --> 0:52:17.040
<v Speaker 2>was all the famous poets got buried at Poet's Corner.

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:21.200
<v Speaker 2>The dean was like, this man is the devil. He

0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:25.800
<v Speaker 2>is not getting buried here, no fucking way. Probably didn't cuss.

0:52:27.640 --> 0:52:30.360
<v Speaker 2>It wasn't until nineteen sixty nine that a memorial was

0:52:30.360 --> 0:52:32.560
<v Speaker 2>placed for him at Westminster Abbey with all of the

0:52:32.560 --> 0:52:33.920
<v Speaker 2>other poets of his generation.

0:52:34.160 --> 0:52:35.279
<v Speaker 3>Wow, that's so late.

0:52:36.239 --> 0:52:42.520
<v Speaker 2>People did not the nobility did not like him for

0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:47.239
<v Speaker 2>a very long time. Instead, he was buried near his

0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:51.040
<v Speaker 2>own home, Nottingham, with a marble slab donated by the

0:52:51.120 --> 0:52:55.000
<v Speaker 2>King of Greece because Greece wins its independence. Although he

0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:56.600
<v Speaker 2>really win independence. He rand up by the king.

0:52:56.640 --> 0:52:57.040
<v Speaker 3>But whatever.

0:52:59.280 --> 0:53:02.480
<v Speaker 2>His friends mission to statue, but nowhere would take it

0:53:02.560 --> 0:53:04.440
<v Speaker 2>for a long time. I think eventually it ends up

0:53:04.480 --> 0:53:07.080
<v Speaker 2>at Cambridge to this college, but like for years they're like,

0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:09.080
<v Speaker 2>we made a statue of the guy, and everyone's like, nah,

0:53:09.080 --> 0:53:13.360
<v Speaker 2>we're good like that guy. He was kind of sketchy,

0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:18.120
<v Speaker 2>and it's like not for the right reasons, you know, Like,

0:53:19.200 --> 0:53:22.080
<v Speaker 2>but no one wants a statue to evil hedonism. He

0:53:22.200 --> 0:53:24.840
<v Speaker 2>was mourned by the working class of England and he

0:53:24.960 --> 0:53:27.440
<v Speaker 2>was spurned by the nobility because even the way he

0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:36.080
<v Speaker 2>wrote was like pulp adventure poetry. And almost two hundred

0:53:36.120 --> 0:53:38.360
<v Speaker 2>years since his death, some of us still don't know

0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:42.200
<v Speaker 2>what to make of him. That's where I land, like.

0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:45.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean, you promised a complicated character and you

0:53:45.600 --> 0:53:46.320
<v Speaker 4>sure delivered.

0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I like my clean cut moral that's not true. I

0:53:49.960 --> 0:53:53.120
<v Speaker 2>always like it into the messy moral complexities of people,

0:53:53.680 --> 0:53:57.680
<v Speaker 2>but like, don't treat people the way he treated people.

0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:01.000
<v Speaker 2>But also like there's nothing in apparently wrong with like

0:54:01.800 --> 0:54:03.440
<v Speaker 2>sleeping with a bunch of people who want to sleep

0:54:03.440 --> 0:54:06.759
<v Speaker 2>with you, you know, and like the society telling him that

0:54:06.760 --> 0:54:08.799
<v Speaker 2>that was wrong, especially the society had told him that

0:54:08.800 --> 0:54:13.080
<v Speaker 2>he'd get hanged for. Like part of the scandal was

0:54:13.120 --> 0:54:15.719
<v Speaker 2>that he liked performing anal I don't like to usually

0:54:15.719 --> 0:54:17.879
<v Speaker 2>talk much about like specifics of sex because I'm kind

0:54:17.880 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 2>of a kind of a prude on my own podcast,

0:54:21.920 --> 0:54:25.799
<v Speaker 2>But he liked performing that on men and women, And

0:54:25.840 --> 0:54:28.239
<v Speaker 2>so women who I believe consentually had that kind of

0:54:28.280 --> 0:54:32.399
<v Speaker 2>sex with him would later like make a big deal

0:54:32.400 --> 0:54:34.080
<v Speaker 2>out of like this is why he's bad. Is he

0:54:34.200 --> 0:54:36.719
<v Speaker 2>likes this it's illegal. And then the other thing, I

0:54:36.719 --> 0:54:38.680
<v Speaker 2>actually don't know how it didn't end up in the script.

0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:41.120
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that Lady Lamb did to him

0:54:41.840 --> 0:54:45.680
<v Speaker 2>was through like clever, weird wordplay, blackmail him and be

0:54:45.800 --> 0:54:48.880
<v Speaker 2>like I know you like boys, so you should be

0:54:48.960 --> 0:54:52.319
<v Speaker 2>nice to me, you know, by like I think she

0:54:52.480 --> 0:54:54.880
<v Speaker 2>like wrote like remember me in one of his books.

0:54:54.920 --> 0:54:56.480
<v Speaker 2>That was like by a fame, a man who was

0:54:56.520 --> 0:54:57.279
<v Speaker 2>like famously gay.

0:54:59.160 --> 0:55:02.920
<v Speaker 4>Something I don't like about the behavior here is people

0:55:03.239 --> 0:55:07.600
<v Speaker 4>who enjoy all different kinds of sets then turning around

0:55:07.719 --> 0:55:11.080
<v Speaker 4>and like using that to like blackmail or shame other

0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:13.120
<v Speaker 4>people that they've had that kind of sex with. It's

0:55:13.120 --> 0:55:15.920
<v Speaker 4>like you're getting down that way too, Like who are

0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:17.040
<v Speaker 4>you to point a finger?

0:55:17.400 --> 0:55:21.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, totally, Or he was pressuring everyone into sex that

0:55:21.760 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 2>you know. It's like, I don't fucking know, you know,

0:55:25.400 --> 0:55:27.920
<v Speaker 2>And no one can talk honestly about it because of

0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:34.360
<v Speaker 2>the laws criminalizing sodomy and homosexuality. No one can actually

0:55:34.480 --> 0:55:40.800
<v Speaker 2>say what was happening. That's my somehow tie it all together? Takeaway?

0:55:40.840 --> 0:55:47.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, But there's your archetypical, mad, bad and

0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:54.000
<v Speaker 2>dangerous to no guy. Yeah, his daughter was really into

0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:59.520
<v Speaker 2>him and she basically invented software and we're gonna talk

0:55:59.560 --> 0:56:02.560
<v Speaker 2>about her and computers that I promised on Wednesday.

0:56:06.320 --> 0:56:09.280
<v Speaker 3>This was a much more sexual episode than than I'm expecting.

0:56:09.360 --> 0:56:12.600
<v Speaker 2>I love it, Okay, good, No, I like I again,

0:56:12.640 --> 0:56:16.760
<v Speaker 2>like I'm not like and I feel like I mostly

0:56:16.800 --> 0:56:19.439
<v Speaker 2>don't talk about the more details of this kind of thing,

0:56:19.600 --> 0:56:22.799
<v Speaker 2>but I feel like it's just necessary in this particular case, you.

0:56:22.800 --> 0:56:26.279
<v Speaker 4>Know, absolutely, Like I feel like you need to know

0:56:26.400 --> 0:56:29.000
<v Speaker 4>that fact because I didn't know that about the anal sex,

0:56:29.040 --> 0:56:32.960
<v Speaker 4>and so it does help contextualize exactly how these how

0:56:33.000 --> 0:56:34.799
<v Speaker 4>these figures were interacting with each other.

0:56:35.400 --> 0:56:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I really I think part of why I like

0:56:40.080 --> 0:56:43.640
<v Speaker 2>studying history so much because there's so many versions of

0:56:43.760 --> 0:56:45.880
<v Speaker 2>history that people like take what they currently believe in

0:56:45.920 --> 0:56:48.319
<v Speaker 2>project it backwards, like what we have is projections of

0:56:48.360 --> 0:56:55.480
<v Speaker 2>ourselves backwards, you know, and trying to figure out how

0:56:55.840 --> 0:56:58.759
<v Speaker 2>wild people were and weren't in the past is like

0:56:59.440 --> 0:57:01.799
<v Speaker 2>so fast to me because there's all these reads where

0:57:01.800 --> 0:57:03.680
<v Speaker 2>it was like, no, that was unheard of, no one

0:57:03.719 --> 0:57:05.360
<v Speaker 2>did that, And then there's other reads where like, well,

0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:07.360
<v Speaker 2>of course they did that. People have those bodies and

0:57:07.400 --> 0:57:10.600
<v Speaker 2>they go together in that you know, they can fit

0:57:10.640 --> 0:57:12.319
<v Speaker 2>that way, so of course people did it. You know.

0:57:12.360 --> 0:57:15.399
<v Speaker 2>It's like it's really interesting to me because I think

0:57:15.400 --> 0:57:18.480
<v Speaker 2>it says so much about you know, like like the

0:57:18.520 --> 0:57:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Victorians actually just trashed history because they just projected Victorian

0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:24.840
<v Speaker 2>values out to the past, and so we're still unpacking

0:57:24.880 --> 0:57:26.800
<v Speaker 2>all of the things that the Victorians tried to apply

0:57:26.840 --> 0:57:30.680
<v Speaker 2>retroactively and then it's annoying because it's like five thousand

0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:34.840
<v Speaker 2>rich white assholes in fucking London that the entire world's

0:57:34.920 --> 0:57:37.760
<v Speaker 2>history lives in the shadow of their moral values, and

0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:39.360
<v Speaker 2>it's so annoying.

0:57:40.880 --> 0:57:43.400
<v Speaker 4>Anyway, Yeah, this is why it would be helpful of

0:57:43.440 --> 0:57:46.320
<v Speaker 4>some of this if there weren't laws that made people

0:57:46.640 --> 0:57:48.480
<v Speaker 4>squeamish about writing some of this stuff down.

0:57:48.520 --> 0:57:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Clearly, Yeah, totally. Well, if people want to, I don't

0:57:55.000 --> 0:57:57.240
<v Speaker 2>have a good way to transfer that into your plug

0:57:57.280 --> 0:57:59.560
<v Speaker 2>for your podcast. But where can people listen to you

0:57:59.560 --> 0:58:00.520
<v Speaker 2>talking about stuff?

0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:03.520
<v Speaker 4>Anal Sex doesn't come up a lot, but if you

0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:05.560
<v Speaker 4>still want to hear the podcast, you can.

0:58:05.480 --> 0:58:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Check it out.

0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.800
<v Speaker 2>I come up on this show. I'm being like, I'm

0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:09.840
<v Speaker 2>blushing and defensive.

0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:11.600
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, please kids, has it come up?

0:58:13.120 --> 0:58:14.840
<v Speaker 4>But all other kinds of things do that are still

0:58:14.960 --> 0:58:17.120
<v Speaker 4>very interesting. The show was called There Are No Girls

0:58:17.160 --> 0:58:17.760
<v Speaker 4>on the Internet.

0:58:17.880 --> 0:58:21.880
<v Speaker 2>Please check it out, all right, and we'll be back

0:58:21.920 --> 0:58:27.600
<v Speaker 2>on Wednesday. By everyone.

0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:31.440
<v Speaker 1>Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

0:58:31.520 --> 0:58:34.600
<v Speaker 1>cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

0:58:34.760 --> 0:58:37.800
<v Speaker 1>visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us

0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:40.960
<v Speaker 1>out on the Iheard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:58:41.160 --> 0:58:42.240
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts