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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 2: your weekly podcast that sometimes is people who it's really

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Speaker 2: easy to say are cool, and sometimes are people who

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Speaker 2: it's really easy to say aren't boring. And someone who

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Speaker 2: is neither uncool nor boring is my guest, bridget Todd,

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Speaker 2: host of There Are No Girls on the Internet.

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Speaker 3: How are you a bridget I'm great, thank you for

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Speaker 3: having me.

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Speaker 4: I'm honored that you think I'm sometimes cool and maybe

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Speaker 4: not boring.

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Speaker 3: I strive for both of those things.

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Speaker 2: You do well at both, unlike some of the people

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Speaker 2: we're going to talk about this week, who managed some

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Speaker 2: of them and not the others.

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Speaker 5: Is a complicated one. I am thank you. I know

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Speaker 5: who I like. I like a little moral ambiguity. I

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Speaker 5: like a complicated historical or cultural figure.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, well first I implicated historical figure is Sophie Lichterman,

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Speaker 2: who's been podcasting since the fourteen hundreds and apparently really

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Speaker 2: really old skincare fucking on point.

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Speaker 1: Your sun's green even if you're not going outside.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're like one of those vampires who doesn't age.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna talk about vampires this week.

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Speaker 3: Really, I didn't even know that she must have known that.

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Speaker 2: No, this is just happy and our audio engineer is Danil.

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Speaker 2: Everyone knows is a Hi to Daniel, Hi Danel.

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Speaker 3: I yea Hi Danel.

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Speaker 2: Our theme music was written for us by unwoman. So

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Speaker 2: not the last time we had you on, but the

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Speaker 2: first time we had you on, we were talking about

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Speaker 2: how computer used to be a job, right, And this

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Speaker 2: week I was like, let's talk about the origin of computers.

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Speaker 2: And by that I mean I want to tell a

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Speaker 2: story that involves vampires, poetry, revolution, and an almost unprecedented

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Speaker 2: amount of heatness to get access I'm using. Today, we're

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Speaker 2: going to tell the story of the first computer programmer,

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Speaker 2: a woman named Ada Lovelace who never met her father,

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Speaker 2: but her and her husband were obsessed with her father,

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Speaker 2: the infamous hedonist, the sex crazed class trader, the most

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Speaker 2: famous poet of his generation, and the first vampire lord Byron.

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Speaker 2: You familiar with much of this story.

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Speaker 3: I am familiar with some of this story.

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Speaker 4: I just I'm like quivering with excitement because when you

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Speaker 4: said a complicated person, I had a feeling. Then when

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Speaker 4: you said vampires, I was like, Oh, I think I

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Speaker 4: really know.

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited to get into this cool. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, I was like, I'm going to do Ada Lovelace

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Speaker 2: because I've just been doing a bunch of stuff that

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Speaker 2: revolves not revolves around but like Lord Byron is a

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Speaker 2: periphery figure skulking in the dark and drinking people's blood

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Speaker 2: or whatever. And I was like, all right, well, I

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Speaker 2: don't really want to specifically get into him, and so

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Speaker 2: I started doing Ada Lovelace, and then I more and

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Speaker 2: more realized that I actually think that understanding her father

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Speaker 2: is like a big part of it. And also not boring,

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Speaker 2: not a cool guy, maybe a cool guy. Really the

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Speaker 2: jury is out historically about this man.

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Speaker 4: I think not boring is the perfect way to describe him.

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Speaker 4: I know that Ada Lovelace is somebody who had a

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Speaker 4: very complicated relationship with her family on top of being

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Speaker 4: a complicated person herself. And I like how you're coming

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Speaker 4: at this, like we do sort of have to talk

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Speaker 4: about her father or to really understand who she was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I was also like, before I did too

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Speaker 2: much of this research, there's this thing where people kind

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Speaker 2: of talk about Ada Lovelace as if like she's like,

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Speaker 2: oh well, we kind of need to throw a woman

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Speaker 2: in there. When we're talking about early computers. No, like

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Speaker 2: she she's as important as Charles Babbage. There's no part

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Speaker 2: of me after reading all of this that doubts that,

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Speaker 2: if anything, she was more important.

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Speaker 3: Totally agree.

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Speaker 4: And I hate this perspective where people you can tell

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Speaker 4: the inclusion of traditionally marginalized people is like a footnote,

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Speaker 4: like they're like, oh, yeah, some women were there, some

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Speaker 4: queer folks were there, some transpoloks were there, black folks, whatever, whatever, whatever.

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Speaker 4: But that's so wrong because these people they were at

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Speaker 4: every I mean this literally, at every step of computers

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Speaker 4: becoming the ubiquitous forces they are in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 4: Women were there, Queer folks were there, trans folks were there,

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Speaker 4: black folks were there. And so this idea that adding

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Speaker 4: them is like a little nod to diversity or something

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Speaker 4: that is so wrong because they wouldn't exist without us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And it was really nice to like know

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Speaker 2: that by reading more about this story, you know, I

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Speaker 2: actually had this moment where I was like, am I

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Speaker 2: really going to do some fucking nobles? I like kind

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Speaker 2: of hate English nobility specifically, like a lot of what

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Speaker 2: we're going to be talking about happened around the same

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Speaker 2: time that England was Oh, I don't know, genocide in

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Speaker 2: Ireland and things like that. You know, I usually don't

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Speaker 2: like nobility. I usually am like whatever. But these folks,

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Speaker 2: their story is compelling enough that I decided it's worth it.

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Speaker 2: Although I've refuse to learn why marrying an earl makes

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Speaker 2: you a countess. I don't understand it, and I refuse

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Speaker 2: to learn. And if you know, listener, don't tell me.

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Speaker 2: I don't care.

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Speaker 4: Margarete Killso a hearty supporter of monarchies.

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Speaker 2: And nobility, not traditionally a fan.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: So one thing that Ada Lovelacener father Lord Byron hav

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Speaker 2: in common is a shocking amount of secrecy. There's an

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Speaker 2: awful lot we don't know about them that we will

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Speaker 2: never know about them in their personal lives. And then

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Speaker 2: a lot of conjecture, and some of it based with

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Speaker 2: a lot of evidence. Right, we also don't know the

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Speaker 2: juiciest bits. So whatever we think we know, there's probably

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Speaker 2: something wilder. Lord Byron when he died, his friends burned

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Speaker 2: his wars, less history judge him as a monster.

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Speaker 4: That's when you know you're really like when you're It's

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Speaker 4: like the old school equivalent of.

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Speaker 3: Clearing your browser history. You can't burn their.

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Speaker 2: Papers, Yeah, totally, and they could have gotten a lot

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Speaker 2: of money for those papers. This man was famous, and

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Speaker 2: Lovelace didn't fare entirely better. There's a deathbed confession that

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Speaker 2: shocked her husband that we don't know.

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Speaker 3: What do you think it was?

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Speaker 2: I think it was a round cheating, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know because I also we'll get to it. I think

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Speaker 2: they were swingers. I think they knew each other as cheating.

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Speaker 2: So it's got to be something wilder than that, is

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Speaker 2: my personal guess. Unless he was just such a like

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Speaker 2: goody two shoes wife guy. Well, okay, we'll talk about

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Speaker 2: him later. We're gonna start chronologically with the father, Lord Byron.

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Speaker 2: Lord Byron was, for like one hundred years at least,

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Speaker 2: the archtypical bad boy, the anti hero. I'm not a

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Speaker 2: classic literature girl. I'm much more of a fantasy speculative fiction.

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Speaker 2: So I never heard anyone use the phrase byronic hero.

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Speaker 2: Had either of you heard this phrase before.

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Speaker 3: I had heard it?

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Speaker 4: I am a PhD in literature dropout. Unfortunately I have

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Speaker 4: heard that phrase. Don't ask me what it means. That's

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Speaker 4: why I'm a That's why I'm a dropout and not

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Speaker 4: a degree holder, but I have heard that phrase before.

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Speaker 2: Okay, really cool, Yeah, no, let's dropout. I really excited

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Speaker 2: when I accidentally, like I knew that you know a

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Speaker 2: lot about computer things and the way that women are

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Speaker 2: talked about in the history of computing. I love when

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Speaker 2: I find out that I have the perfect guests for something.

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Speaker 4: Uh, the perfect guest might have been a PhD holder.

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Speaker 4: I'll take it nonetheless now because then.

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Speaker 2: If you're a PhD holder, he'd be like, Margaret, that's

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Speaker 2: not the way that it happened, Margaret.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if there's any moments like that, you should interject them,

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Speaker 2: because I didn't give a shit about Lord Byron until

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Speaker 2: he was in the background of all of these stories.

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Speaker 2: I did know and care about, and finally I was like,

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Speaker 2: all right, I need to know. A byronic hero is

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Speaker 2: an anti hero. It's a it's a fuck boy. It

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Speaker 2: is a Victoria pre Victorian fuck boy. And people would

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Speaker 2: throw that phrase around byronic the way that we might

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Speaker 2: talk about Orwellian or kafka esque today, not meaning the

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Speaker 2: same thing. But if you have like a brooding, sexy

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Speaker 2: anti hero, he has a byronic figure. He absolutely fucked,

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Speaker 2: he broke hearts. He spit on the conservative morals of

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Speaker 2: his society. He wrote poetry. It was that was like

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Speaker 2: the rock star job at the time, not the way

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Speaker 2: it comes across now. When you tell people that you

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Speaker 2: write poetry, which everyone should still do, mind you, but

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Speaker 2: it doesn't carry the same weight. It's like telling someone

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Speaker 2: you're a podcaster or something. You know. He spent his

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Speaker 2: fortune and his fame on revolution and liberation. He pissed

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Speaker 2: off an awful lot of people. Despite not being conventionally

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Speaker 2: attractive and being disabled, he was the most sexually desired

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Speaker 2: man in high society in London. This is literally the

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Speaker 2: guy who wrote Don Juan, or as he pronounced it,

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Speaker 2: don Juwan, I think, just because he was English, not

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Speaker 2: as like a weird Yeah, and it's semi auto biographical.

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Speaker 2: It's also semi auto biographic about his fuck up dad too,

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Speaker 2: because his fuck up dad was a lot like him.

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Speaker 2: He home wrecked constantly, He ruined lives, He was sleeping

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Speaker 2: with his half sister. He was not around to raise

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Speaker 2: his kids, although this was not entirely his fault always

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Speaker 2: he honestly could potentially have fathered hundreds of children. There's

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Speaker 2: only a few that we know about. He spoke up

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Speaker 2: for the working class when no one else would. He

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Speaker 2: went into exile because his sexuality was a capital offense

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Speaker 2: in his native country, the backwards, a little island called England.

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Speaker 2: Someone's going to get mad that England is actually the

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Speaker 2: name of a specific country, not the larger island whatever.

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Speaker 2: And he died young trying to free far off Grease

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Speaker 2: from foreign occupation. So people argue about him today. They say,

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Speaker 2: was he a hero? Was he a monster? Was he misunderstood?

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Speaker 2: I have come to the conclusion, and I'm curious your take.

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Speaker 2: He's all three of these things.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you.

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Speaker 4: I think complicated person like I think trying to be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: he's just purely a hero, purely a monster. I think

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Speaker 4: his legacy is a little too complex to boil it

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Speaker 4: down in that way.

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Speaker 3: I think all of these things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And the thing that I'm like, well, i'll get

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Speaker 2: into it. The way he specifically handled a few relationships

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Speaker 2: is the thing that I'm like, Wow, I wish I

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Speaker 2: had more details. I wish I kind of knew better.

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Speaker 2: But I mean it's like, who am I to sit

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Speaker 2: in judgment of these people who have been dead for

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Speaker 2: hundreds of years. But I'm like, that's literally my job

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Speaker 2: is to try and find entertaining ways to sit in

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Speaker 2: judgment of people who've been dead for hundreds of years.

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Speaker 4: So I do think is like the way that he

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Speaker 4: showed up in reallyationships does relate to his work and legacy.

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Speaker 4: So it's not like we're just being petty and being like, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: he wrote this, but also he was a scoundrel.

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Speaker 3: Like those things are kind of related totally.

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Speaker 2: He wasn't like writing about a wandering fuck boy out

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Speaker 2: of like an insul imagination sitting in his parents' basement.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: He was a.

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Speaker 2: Wandering fuck boy. And in seventeen eighty eight, Lord Byron

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Speaker 2: was born into minor nobility in the center of that

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Speaker 2: world spanning nightmarish hydra called the British Empire. His first

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Speaker 2: name was not Lord, it was George, but no one

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Speaker 2: as soon as he becomes Lord Byron, he's just Lord Byron, like,

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Speaker 2: which is a move. But he was born George Gordon Byron.

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Speaker 2: He was born in London to a Scottish heiress and

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Speaker 2: a father named mad Jack. To be fair, Lord Byron

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Speaker 2: named his own father mad Jack in like an obituary

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Speaker 2: of the aforementioned mad Jack. But that's the name that's stuck,

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Speaker 2: because Lord Byron, if he names something, that's the name

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Speaker 2: that's going to stick. Matt Jack was lived up to

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Speaker 2: his name. He fought against the American Revolution. He blew

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Speaker 2: all of his money gambling. He fucked around on his

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Speaker 2: wife with other married women. He left his second wife

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Speaker 2: and all of his kids to go live in France

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Speaker 2: with his own sister, whom he was probably fucking. Then

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Speaker 2: he died at thirty four, probably from friend of the

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Speaker 2: pod tuberculosis, but possibly by his own hand. Meanwhile, Young

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Speaker 2: Byron not quite yet Lord, although he's going to become

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Speaker 2: a lord at ten, which is not a thing you

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Speaker 2: should do to a child. He moves with his mom

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Speaker 2: to Scotland. He was born with a club foot. He

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Speaker 2: will walk with a limb his entire life. And he's

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Speaker 2: never able to dance, at least like in a way

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Speaker 2: that is presentable to high society. Through vagaries of inheritance,

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Speaker 2: I refuse to study in depth. My opinion about the

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Speaker 2: English nobility is already on record. A series of dead

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Speaker 2: airs mean that our young Lord Byron winds up inheriting

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Speaker 2: the title Lord Byron from his great uncle who is

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Speaker 2: named Lord Byron. The new young Lord Byron is ten

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Speaker 2: when he becomes the sixth Lord Byron, which is a baron.

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Speaker 2: He's a baron.

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Speaker 4: Again, we don't really know how the titles work. I

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Speaker 4: don't know either, and I refuse to look it up.

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Speaker 4: So if you do know that, I feel like, keep

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Speaker 4: it to yourself.

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Speaker 3: Maybe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he suddenly becomes a character in a weird

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Speaker 2: old movie, only he predates old movies right by one

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Speaker 2: hundred years, so he's actually the things that they're all

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Speaker 2: based on. It becomes a baron of this estate called

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Speaker 2: Newstead Abbey in Nottingham, near Sherwood Forest and all that shit.

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Speaker 2: It is old and run down, so his mom leases

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Speaker 2: it out rather than living there, but he spends some

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Speaker 2: time there as a kid in the like we can't

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Speaker 2: afford to keep up our giant Gothic mansion, and he

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Speaker 2: has a Gothic nightmare of a childhood. His mother was

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Speaker 2: a drunk. A lot of biographers like to argue about

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Speaker 2: whether or not she was shitty to him. His nurse

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Speaker 2: was very shitty to him. The way that it's phrased

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Speaker 2: in history books. I specifically disagree with because his nurse

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Speaker 2: beat him regularly, sexually assaulted him regularly when he's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, ten or something, and then would yell at

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Speaker 2: him in scripture and you know, talk about what terrible

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Speaker 2: person he is or whatever. Right, And one reason it's

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Speaker 2: hard to piece out a lot of things is that

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Speaker 2: people dance around both the things that he had inflicted

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Speaker 2: upon him and that he inflicted upon others. People don't.

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Speaker 2: People are like sly and vague, And I think that's

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Speaker 2: like a British nobility thing, where when they talk about assault,

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Speaker 2: child abuse, incest, homosexuality and affairs, and they're all like

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Speaker 2: conflated as bad things, even though some of them are

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Speaker 2: perfectly fine and consensual and some of them are horrific,

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Speaker 2: nightmare things whatever. I'm not even going to repeat it.

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Speaker 2: I don't like the way that about half the histories

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Speaker 2: that I read about him refer to what he suffered

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Speaker 2: at the hand of his caretakers. He was very happy

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Speaker 2: to get sent way to boarding school. He called them

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Speaker 2: the happiest days of his life. He met a bunch

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Speaker 2: of his forever friends while he was at school. He's

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Speaker 2: probably started sleeping with boys. I understand why men at

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Speaker 2: the time talk slyly around homosexuality because it was a

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Speaker 2: public hanging offense at the time, and he falls in

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Speaker 2: love with girls a bunch too, and he's way more

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Speaker 2: public about that. By college, the school is like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you can't keep a dog in your room, and he's like, okay,

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Speaker 2: So he gets a bear.

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Speaker 4: Wait where did he get a bear? Like, what do

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Speaker 4: we know about him obtaining this bear?

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Speaker 2: I don't know enough. He keeps animals his whole life.

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Speaker 2: He always has like a menagere that follows him around

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Speaker 2: basically through all of his travels, and it's like whatever,

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Speaker 2: weird animals, But he specifically likes dogs and birds, like

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Speaker 2: giant birds, peacocks and eagles and stuff like that. Right,

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Speaker 2: But it's referred to as a tame bear, and I

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Speaker 2: refuse to like just say it was a tame bear

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Speaker 2: because I only half believe that that's a concept. You know.

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Speaker 2: I think you can have a trained bear. I think

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Speaker 2: that's true. And yeah, I it's just one of these

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Speaker 2: like rich European people things like every now and then

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Speaker 2: you read about like someone who lives in Europe and

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Speaker 2: they have a ton of money, so they have like

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Speaker 2: a leopard or whatever, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if I you know that meme.

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Speaker 4: I wouldn't tell anybody if I won the lottery, but

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Speaker 4: there would be signs I would definitely get all kinds

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Speaker 4: of weird animals.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, for sure. I mean I would treat them

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Speaker 3: well and have like specialists or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Like.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't be you.

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Speaker 4: Know, it wouldn't be one of those things where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 4: this person had a alligator in their studio apartment or something,

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Speaker 4: they would be well cared for. But yes, I get it,

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Speaker 4: this is something I understand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally, And like, yeah, all of the birds

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Speaker 2: and stuff that he keeps, I'm like, yeah, I would

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Speaker 2: totally do that if I, like, if I got to

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Speaker 2: hire people to take care of things, you know, for me.

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Speaker 2: And while in school he got into poetry. His first

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Speaker 2: poems were terrible love poems for his cousin Margaret, which

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Speaker 2: I only included because I like the name Margaret and

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Speaker 2: Margaret did not want him. He self published two poetry books,

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Speaker 2: one of which he had to censor because of its

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Speaker 2: like frank eroticism. He's like from a very young age,

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Speaker 2: is like and then I like fucking you know, and

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Speaker 2: then the priests are like you shouldn't say that, and

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Speaker 2: he's like, and then I like vague metaphors, and.

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Speaker 3: That's much better. Then I like intimacy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Now he's constantly talking about his like

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Speaker 2: intimate friendships with boys and then the like long curly

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Speaker 2: locks that go down the back of this boy's you

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Speaker 2: know back or whatever.

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Speaker 3: I think we're picking up what he's putting down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. But it's funny because it took hundreds of

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Speaker 2: years for people to pick it up because they were

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Speaker 2: like and then late later spoiler, he leaves England because

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Speaker 2: he can't come back, and it's because of scandal, and

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Speaker 2: some of it's like kind of legit scandal. But he's

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Speaker 2: pretty open in his letters. He's like, I can't go

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Speaker 2: back becaus they hang me for having the sex that

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Speaker 2: I have.

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Speaker 3: You know. Yes, this is.

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Speaker 4: Something that I've seen time and time again from history

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Speaker 4: where the person they're writing about all but comes out

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Speaker 4: and says it and it's like, ooh, what was the

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Speaker 4: relationship here? And it's like, well, you can read what

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Speaker 4: they wrote where they talked about how they have it's

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Speaker 4: a sexual one, or he can act like it's like

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Speaker 4: very cloudy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we just do it as they do in Greece,

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Speaker 2: and we're buried next to each other, like uh huh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So he self publishes two poetry books, right, and then

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Speaker 2: his third book finds a publisher and it's called his

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Speaker 2: first published book by someone else's called Hours of Idleness,

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Speaker 2: and it's not particularly impressive. It is widely panned. People

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Speaker 2: are like, it's no good, it's derivative. I honestly didn't

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Speaker 2: totally love his poetry, so I'm not going to like

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Speaker 2: include much of it in this episode. I actually really

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Speaker 2: like a lot of his contemporaries poetry like Percy Shelley,

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Speaker 2: which I'm not going to quote in here. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: so he turned around and he wrote poems making fun

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Speaker 2: of his reviewers, and these were his first good poems

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Speaker 2: that people like, where his poems talking shit and if

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Speaker 2: you want to talk shit, you can talk shit about

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Speaker 2: are well, no, you should never talk shit about our advertisers.

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Speaker 2: We think that all of them are perfect in every way,

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Speaker 2: especially the ones that are about things that go exactly

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Speaker 2: against everything that we believe in. Here's Dad's and we're back.

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Speaker 2: So he won't dance for obvious reasons, but he is

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Speaker 2: an athlete. He is a fairly obsessive athlete. He's not

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Speaker 2: particularly talented, he's not particularly bad at it either, but

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Speaker 2: he's like always like swimming canals and doing all of

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Speaker 2: this stuff right his whole life. And he ends up

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Speaker 2: going to the same college, Trinity College at Cambridge, that

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Speaker 2: are later bisexual hero Oscar Wilde would go to almost

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Speaker 2: a century later, and they're both into boxing, and they

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Speaker 2: both self publish bad poetry while in college. And I

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Speaker 2: just we did an episode about him like a month ago,

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Speaker 2: and I just I'm going to forget the name Trinity

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Speaker 2: College like in three months, but for now it sticks

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Speaker 2: in my mind, top of mind. He gets out of

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Speaker 2: college and he starts doing what he's really good at,

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Speaker 2: becoming a wandering vagabond, and fuck boy, this is nit

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Speaker 2: his niche niche. How do you pronounce that word niche?

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Speaker 3: I think I've heard both.

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Speaker 4: I know, it's one of those words that whenever I

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Speaker 4: say on a podcast, I second guess myself.

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Speaker 3: Yoh, I don't know tbd.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he went on a grand tour like all rich

395
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Speaker 2: assholes do when they're like done the school, you know,

396
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Speaker 2: and they traveling around and now, don't get me wrong,

397
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Speaker 2: dropping out of college or finishing college and going and

398
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Speaker 2: wandering around for a couple of years or whatever. That's fine.

399
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 2: It's a rich asshole move when you have all of

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Speaker 2: your friends and servants in your meningerie with you, that's

401
00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 2: that going.

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Speaker 4: It's like what an artist, like a musician, goes on tour,

403
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Speaker 4: Like everybody's.

404
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Speaker 3: Coming with us.

405
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Speaker 4: We've gotta cook, get a servant and a cleaner, and

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Speaker 4: everybody that I'm sleeping with all in one group.

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Speaker 2: Yep, which is often for him an overlap between those

408
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Speaker 2: various positions.

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Speaker 3: It actually doesn't sound bad. I'm not gonna know, it's not.

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Speaker 2: He's lived a final life and like there's only one

411
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Speaker 2: thing that is gonna comp up in his life that

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Speaker 2: may not have been consensual on his part, and like

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Speaker 2: even that, honestly, I'm not so sure, at least in

414
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Speaker 2: everything that I've read. So he's off adventuring, and the

415
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Speaker 2: Napoleonic Wars have like shut down Europe to travel, right,

416
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Speaker 2: it's not a good idea to go wander around with

417
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Speaker 2: peacocks and like your lovers around Europe. So he goes

418
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Speaker 2: to the Mediterranean, and he also picked that area, and

419
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Speaker 2: he wrote about this, and again people didn't bother me.

420
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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, it's just the wars. He picked that

421
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Speaker 2: area because homosexuality is more tolerated and autumn and controlled

422
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Speaker 2: areas than European areas. He was also into like esoteric

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Speaker 2: shit and orientalism. He's pretty into like being a white

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Speaker 2: guy in a Sufi mysticism and all that shit.

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Speaker 4: I feel like, I know guys like this. This is

426
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Speaker 4: as like you're just like this as a type. This

427
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Speaker 4: guy is still out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he is the first, and I was gonna say finest,

429
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,199
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure. But I challenge if you are

430
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Speaker 2: listening to this and you're like, I'm kind of this

431
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,360
Speaker 2: kind of asshole, commit your life and possibly lose your

432
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,639
Speaker 2: life to progressive causes of liberation. That's what I'm gonna say.

433
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Speaker 2: That's the thing you should do, and always stay consensual.

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Speaker 2: The sketchiest thing that we can immediately point to is

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00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,639
Speaker 2: that during these travels, and he's just out of college,

436
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,640
Speaker 2: he is almost certainly fucking a fourteen year old boy

437
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 2: who's like with him on these travels, and he's also

438
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,280
Speaker 2: in love with like every woman he meets, including three sisters,

439
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 2: one of whom is twelve. However, usually when people are

440
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 2: like he is in love with it means that he's

441
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: fucking them. I actually don't think he's fucking these sisters. Then,

442
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:01,880
Speaker 2: the most part is that the only thing that's abnormal

443
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 2: about what I just described is that one of them

444
00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 2: as a boy for the time. This is not to

445
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 2: say it was all right, but it wasn't a thing

446
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 2: that people bothered to note as weird. He starts writing

447
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: epic travelog poetry. His first successes came from a poem

448
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,000
Speaker 2: called Child Harold's Pilgrimage, and this did real well, like

449
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: selling tens of thousands of copies right away. Byron says,

450
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 2: I awoke one morning and found myself famous. Anywhere you

451
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,199
Speaker 2: go in England, someone has either read this or is

452
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 2: talking to someone who has read this. I can't imagine

453
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: poetry ever finding that same niche in society ever. Again,

454
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna switch between niche and niche every single

455
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 2: time I say it. That's my plan.

456
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: I like it. The only poem, the only poet that

457
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 3: I can think of like that is.

458
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 4: Who's the poet who writes kind of sparse poems that

459
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 4: It's like.

460
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 2: I'm going to embarrass myself by not knowing.

461
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 3: Her first name is Rupee. She's very famous.

462
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 4: Okay, she might have been dating Corey Booker for a while,

463
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 4: like like she's the last poet that I remember that like.

464
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 3: Blew up everywhere, k A you are, and.

465
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 4: Every every poem is like the lines, the breaks are

466
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 4: really interesting, so it'll be like the milk line break

467
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 4: in my heart line break. Like it's like very like

468
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 4: the poems are sparse and broken on the page in

469
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 4: a specific kind of way.

470
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: These go on Instagram a lot, right.

471
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 3: Yes, it's like Instagram famous poet.

472
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is that's her name it? But I think

473
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: it's I think it's not Ruby.

474
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 3: I think it's Rupee Rupee, Yes, thank.

475
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,880
Speaker 1: You, Yes, so yeah, check her out.

476
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 2: I think that we've just hit this place where it's

477
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:43,959
Speaker 2: just a media saturation thing where it's like because at

478
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,040
Speaker 2: the same time you're like, oh, the novelist and you're like, oh,

479
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: which one. There's ten there are ten novelists available for

480
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,719
Speaker 2: you to listen to to read, you know, and now

481
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,879
Speaker 2: everyone can write novels and that's great, but it does

482
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 2: make it harder to become an overnight success. He was

483
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 2: writing basically pulp fiction adventure tales about different wandering fuck boys,

484
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 2: but in poetry form it has lots of Orientalism. Literally,

485
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 2: these are referred to as his Oriental tales, and his

486
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: particular obsession is with Greece and Albania. And since he's

487
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 2: a lord, as soon as he comes of age, he

488
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,160
Speaker 2: goes and he joins the House of Lords. I again

489
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,920
Speaker 2: refuse to know if this is automatic, but he is

490
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: now in government because because an uncle died, right, that's

491
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 2: how government should work. He gives three speeches total his

492
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: entire career, and all of them are super radical and

493
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: unpopular because he's politically he's really fucking cool. The first

494
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: speech he gives there I actually covered in the episode

495
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 2: about the Lattites. Basically, all of these people are rioters,

496
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 2: are destroying machinery that was destroying their livelihood. They didn't

497
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 2: hate technology, they hated specific technology that was putting them

498
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 2: out of a job. It's very applicable to a lot

499
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 2: of people. Right now, we're listening to this m HM

500
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: and the House of Lords was considering a bill that

501
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 2: they passed which was let hang everyone who breaks machines,

502
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 2: because that's England's solution to everything at this point. Hangings, yeah,

503
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 2: just public hangings, which to be fair is a lot

504
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: less gruesome than what England was doing to kill people

505
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: about two hundred years earlier. So he stands up and

506
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 2: he gives this long speech about like, hey, actually the

507
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: Luddites are kind of cool and at very least don't

508
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: murder them. His second speech in the House of Lords

509
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: was what if we treated the Catholics over in Ireland

510
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 2: a little bit better? Huh how about that? Doesn't that

511
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: seem like a good plan? That one was equally unpopular.

512
00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine that going over well.

513
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,439
Speaker 2: No, and like, Okay, the one cool thing about an

514
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 2: inherent nobility is that every now and then you're just

515
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 2: gonna have this guy who's just like, I guess I'm

516
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 2: in government now, but I fucking hate all of you,

517
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: like because he's not trying to play nice with the

518
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: House of Lords. He doesn't care about any of this stuff,

519
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 2: you know. All he cares about is getting his dick

520
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,920
Speaker 2: wet and like writing poetry and wandering around and actually

521
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 2: trying to be nice to everyone constantly, and like really

522
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 2: like he gives all of his stuff away constantly. He

523
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: is selfish romantically in some ways, but he's also he

524
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: doesn't care when the people he sleeps asleep with other people,

525
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: so I don't know. I don't So he spends four

526
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 2: years of his life in society, which is like I'm

527
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: gonna put in air quotes because he gets capitalized. This

528
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 2: is the rich asshole clique of five thousand people in

529
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: a city of one million that, like all of the

530
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 2: books and shit are all about. He is a rock

531
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: star when he enters society because he's just come back

532
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 2: from his grand tour and he's famous as hell, and

533
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 2: so he's invited all the fancy poets and he either

534
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: starts seducing or honestly, the way that most histories present it,

535
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 2: being sought after by everyone in society. Everyone is trying

536
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 2: to fuck this guy. Everyone's like mailing him blocks of

537
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 2: hair and like writing him weird letters and shit, Yeah,

538
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: this fucking guy.

539
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 4: Like I mean, like it's like throwing a bra up

540
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,160
Speaker 4: on stage or something, you know, like can't go anywhere

541
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 4: without people sending me.

542
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: A weird letter totally, And like I remember when at

543
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 2: some point there's this like reckoning that will eventually happen

544
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 2: to the history of rock and roll, where we realize

545
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: that all of these men are like mass rapists, right

546
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 2: and people are like, well, if you can't just like

547
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: randomly fucked group is, why would you be a rock star?

548
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, like make music and like change

549
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: people's lives and shit. And that's also say that you

550
00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: can't have like wild consensual sex with lots of people.

551
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: But like, obviously the way that the rock stars were

552
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 2: doing it overall was not so good. Lord Byron starts

553
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: up an affair with a woman named Lady Lamb, which

554
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 2: is a funny name. Her name is Lady Caroline. Lamb

555
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 2: definitely pursued him. She sent him a bunch of letters

556
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: and lock of hair, and then she learned how to

557
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: copy his prose style and wrote him in his own

558
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: voice to try and get his attention.

559
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 3: Whoa pretty intense, Lady Lamb.

560
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: She is going to get way more intense. This is

561
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: the relationship that I like. I think they're just bad

562
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: for each other, but it's like the relationship where he

563
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 2: is either the worst person or she is either the

564
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: worst person, or they're both just really bad for each other.

565
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I know this relationship where it's like

566
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 4: both of y'all are really toxic and together it's like

567
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 4: unleashed something really wild.

568
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. You're like, well, yeah, no, he is absolutely

569
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: awful if in this context, and you're really awful in

570
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 2: his context too, And I wish he would just get

571
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: away from each other. She called him while she was

572
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: still pursuing him. She called him mad, bad, and dangerous

573
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 2: to know, which is like the quote about him that

574
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: it's not on his tombstone, but practically, and she wasn't wrong.

575
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 2: This relationship absolutely wrecks her. You could make the case

576
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 2: that she was emotionally abusive to him. You could make

577
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 2: the case that she was acting in the ways that

578
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: she was because of the way that he was acting

579
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: to her. I think I usually tend towards siding with

580
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 2: women in any such pairing. I couldn't tell you in

581
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: this case, and maybe that's because of there's entire books

582
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: written for hundreds of years arguing one side or the other.

583
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: It annoys me how much has been written about this, honestly,

584
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: even though I'm like, I wish I knew more about it,

585
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: but I wish I knew more about it without having

586
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 2: to read like all of these politicized triestises arguing one

587
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: position or the other. Lady Caroline Lamb was already married

588
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 2: to a future prime minister, but that did not stop

589
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: her and Lord Byron from having this very public affair,

590
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 2: which I think was kind of just normal in society.

591
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: I think it was all just swingers, but they all

592
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 2: had weird rules about it.

593
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 3: I think so too.

594
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, she would do things like mail him her pubic

595
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 2: hair cut so close there's still blood on it. That

596
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 2: is a move, show up at his house, grab a

597
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 2: letter opener, and threaten to kill herself if he doesn't

598
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 2: date her, and she's mad that he's not faithful to

599
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,160
Speaker 2: her even though she's married. On the other hand, I

600
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 2: think he's fucking her. Mother in law.

601
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,959
Speaker 3: Is one messy.

602
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's messy, then there's fucking mother he's getting He's

603
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 1: gonna get messier.

604
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: Both of them are going to get messier. What's messier

605
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 2: than mother in law? Half sister?

606
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: Oh god, I think mother in law is messier.

607
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, wait, I'm I think his own half sister.

608
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: He is half sister.

609
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: His half sister might up.

610
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 2: With his wife, but we'll get to that. He's not

611
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: married yet at this point, sir. Yeah, So he hates

612
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 2: dances because he can't dance because of his club foot,

613
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: but he goes to dances with her, and he's embarrassed

614
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 2: because she dances with everyone else, and so eventually he's like,

615
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 2: if we go to these dances, you can't dance with

616
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: anyone else, which is him being controlling whatever. After he

617
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: leaves her, she gets wilder. At one point, he's getting

618
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 2: his portrait done, so she copies his style of writing

619
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: and writes the portrait artist and is like, oh yeah,

620
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 2: I'll like send somebody by to pick up that painting.

621
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: I'm totally Lord Byron.

622
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 4: These people would have loved being in an era where

623
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 4: you could have digital drama, because like, yeah, like forging

624
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: someone's way of speaking, and then I guess the person's like, well,

625
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: sounds like him.

626
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 3: I guess that's right.

627
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 4: Like imagine the damage these two could have done to

628
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 4: each other with Instagram.

629
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, the friend's only close friends stories that these two.

630
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 1: Were, stories with like quotes like oh my god, all

631
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,920
Speaker 1: of Koe Kardashian style dramatic quotes.

632
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 2: And they would be like screen capping I noticed you

633
00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: saw my story but didn't heart react it and then

634
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: like sending that to each other nikes. So she steals

635
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: this portrait of him and won't give it back unless

636
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: he sends a lock of his hair. This is after

637
00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 2: they're broken up, so he sends a lock of his

638
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 2: new lover's hair instead. I'm not sure whether it was like, haha,

639
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: fuck you is my new lover's hair, or if he

640
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 2: was pretending it was his own. Later he's going to

641
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 2: like straight up like write her back from like his

642
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: new lovers of address and shit, just to piss her off.

643
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 2: At one point, he runs across her at a dance

644
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 2: and she's like, well, I guess I can dance now,

645
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: ha ha ha, because I'm not dating you anymore. And

646
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 2: he's like, sure, because you dance with everyone in a

647
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: like you're a dirty slut kind of implied way. Right,

648
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 2: So she smashes a glass and starts cutting at her

649
00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 2: wrist in front of everyone. She does not seriously wound herself,

650
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 2: but this is not great. So they're bad for each other,

651
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 2: and they're bad to be in the same society as

652
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 2: each other, and she wants him back to the end

653
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 2: of her life. None of the people who lives he

654
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: wrecking Balld stop spending the rest of their life even

655
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 2: after he dies, pining for him. I am guessing this

656
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: man could fuck yeah.

657
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 4: I mean when the hold lasts longer than your actual

658
00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 4: life on this earth when you've died, and they're still like, hm,

659
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 4: the one that got away.

660
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, that really says something.

661
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he, like I does, I think on some

662
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: level genuinely cares for her, and he's like writing her

663
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 2: for a long time, but then like after they're breaking up,

664
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, I should probably really stop writing her

665
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 2: and stuff.

666
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: You know.

667
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: At one point in desperation, she builds a huge bonfire

668
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 2: and makes all the servant women. It's like it's like

669
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: all of the women in town, but I think it's

670
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 2: like her town, because she's like, fucking she's a higher

671
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 2: up richer, noble, right, So it's like all the women

672
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 2: have to like come out and like burn all of

673
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: his shit, like all of the trinkets and letters and

674
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,880
Speaker 2: stuff that he sent her in a big public spectacle.

675
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: And then and this far it's fun. I kind of

676
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 2: like this. She's like, fuck my own reputation, I am

677
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 2: going to write a novel about this man with a

678
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: thinly disguised chriacature of Byron named Lord Ruthven. Because she's

679
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 2: actually a really good writer on her own right, and

680
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,279
Speaker 2: she writes this whole Gothic novel at a different point

681
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 2: that I haven't read yet but kind of want to.

682
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 2: It seems up my alley. So she puts this out

683
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: and it like torpedoes are standing in society. But it

684
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 2: kind of takes him down a little bit too. Right.

685
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 2: Of all the affairs he started, the most scandalous besides

686
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,799
Speaker 2: the men that he can't admit he's fucking, is that

687
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: he is fucking his half sister Augusta. There's a lot

688
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: of like, oh, maybe he is fucking his half sister Augusta.

689
00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: I'm going to go on a limb here, and this

690
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 2: is his father's kid from a previous marriage. It is

691
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 2: scandalous because it is incest, but it is not as

692
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 2: scandalous as it could be. I am not making I

693
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: am making a moral judgment. My moral judgment is separate

694
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 2: from the one that I am now describing. The moral

695
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 2: judgment of this pre Victorian English society is that it's

696
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: not as scandalous as it could be because they did

697
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,399
Speaker 2: not grow up together, it did not really know each

698
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: other too well until they were adults, and because of

699
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 2: the fact that they had different mothers rather than different fathers.

700
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: Some Game of Thrones, ash ship Margaret.

701
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,279
Speaker 2: Yeah. The more I read history, the more I'm like,

702
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: George R. Martin was just just pulling on some he was.

703
00:36:16,719 --> 00:36:20,040
Speaker 1: Just he was just going off of what actually happened. Yes,

704
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 1: with some with some magic and some dragons mixed in.

705
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 2: Yeah. God, I wish we.

706
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:25,759
Speaker 1: Had dragons like that.

707
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:26,879
Speaker 2: I know.

708
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: Oh, I would commit war crimes or a dragon. A dragon,

709
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 1: I would write a dragon and you're blonde.

710
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 3: I am yeah, not a dragon.

711
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I don't.

712
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: But I'm not into the incest.

713
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: Sorry, Oh you're not weird.

714
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. That's a firm modern sensibility, the incest dragon writing. Yes,

715
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: that's about it. So at this point, Lord Byron, who

716
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 2: was not successfully acquired a dragon, is like, I know,

717
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 2: He's like, I better get married to quell this scandal.

718
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: Plus I keep blowing all my money, so I better

719
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: marry someone rich. He refused to take money for poetry

720
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 2: because of like weird nobility ethics. But the cool thing

721
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 2: he did is that he gave away the copyright to

722
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 2: his works to like anyone who like needed money. Like,

723
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 2: instead of being like, oh, I made some money off

724
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 2: my work, here's the money for it, he just a

725
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 2: straight up like, ah, it's your poem. Now you can

726
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,480
Speaker 2: sell it under my name. I don't care.

727
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 3: That's kind of bad ass, I know.

728
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 2: Like his political ethics, I'm chill with. And I also

729
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 2: understand why, coming from the society that he does, he

730
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 2: spits on conventional morality. You know, I just think that

731
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 2: there's some babies in bathwater problem happening. But most people

732
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: paint this marriage as a marriage of convenience that he

733
00:37:58,440 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: ends up in.

734
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 3: I see why.

735
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: The two of them get along pretty well. He marries

736
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 2: a woman named Anna Isabella Millbank or Annabella for short,

737
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: who is mostly known to history as Lady Byron. She

738
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 2: is interesting in her own right. We're actually going to

739
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 2: talk about her more in the second half of this

740
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 2: particular episode. She is his opposite in all ways but politics.

741
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 2: She's like into non hedonism, and she likes math not poetry.

742
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: And she also said no the first time he proposed

743
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 2: to her, which probably just like is probably why he

744
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 2: was so into her.

745
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 5: You know.

746
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: They get married at his new wife's insistence, his half

747
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: sister and lover, Augusta, moves in with the couple. Okay,

748
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: most nights, Annabella is on the couch and Augusta's in

749
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: the marriage bed is the way that it is often phrased.

750
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,799
Speaker 2: I think that there's a chance of that is a

751
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: triad and not talked about. And plus he's just running

752
00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,000
Speaker 2: around fucking other people. This marriage does not last. This

753
00:38:59,040 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: is going to be shocking.

754
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: Surprises me. What was that? A solid foundation?

755
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 2: I know last less than a year. All that came

756
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,720
Speaker 2: out of it was Annabella's life being like pretty fucked

757
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: up by it all. And they had a daughter named

758
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,399
Speaker 2: Augusta Ada because Ada Lovelace is named after the half

759
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 2: sister that her dad is banging.

760
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:25,240
Speaker 3: It's pretty messy.

761
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. Shortly after Ada's birth, Annabella takes Ada and leaves

762
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 2: her husband, but Annabella doesn't stop loving and caring for

763
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: Lord Byron. Annabella is like, you are fucking insane. That's

764
00:39:40,800 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: what's happening here is you are non She was like,

765
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,520
Speaker 2: my ex husband is neurodivergent in ways that are problematic.

766
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 2: Is the way she would have phrased it in her Instagram.

767
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: She would not have been messy on Instagram. Well she

768
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 2: would have had to be because he would have been

769
00:39:59,080 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 2: messy on Instagram.

770
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 1: Her.

771
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, you get you get pulled into this stuff, even

772
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 4: if you are not the kind of person who is

773
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 4: messy on Instagram. When you're in the orbit of people

774
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 4: who are you get pulled in.

775
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:16,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, Lord Byron never sees his daughter again, but he

776
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: like writes about her constantly in his poetry. This is

777
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 2: like the great loss in his life that he's not

778
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 2: more part of his daughter's life as far as I

779
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 2: can tell. And Annabella Mom continues to think fondly of

780
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 2: Lord Byron for a long time, but is like pretty like,

781
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: but you got to stay no influence. My kid cannot

782
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: end up like you. You're just a weird crazy man

783
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 2: that I miss and who's like soul. She's constantly trying

784
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: to say, she's really religious. So in eighteen sixteen, Byron

785
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 2: left England for good. Most accounts refer to the scandal

786
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 2: of the failed marriage, but his own correspondence was like, yeah,

787
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: I could get hanged for you know the way I

788
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 2: like to have sex, which is with men. But what

789
00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 2: isn't a hanging offence is taking advantage of these sweet deals.

790
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: This is the worst one. This is the worst one

791
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:19,399
Speaker 2: I've ever done. It's like Robert Evans level. I know,

792
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 2: I I try to rise above such it's because I'm

793
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 2: doing someone who isn't actually because I'm doing someone who

794
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: could easily be a bastard. That's why valid valid. But

795
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that these deals are bastards. The fact

796
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 2: that they are is completely unrelated. Here's the ads geesus.

797
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 3: You you got there. I feel like you got there.

798
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 3: You laided the plane.

799
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,520
Speaker 2: So we're back, much like our wanderers, back to wandering.

800
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 2: This time I'm among his uh menoche. He brings a

801
00:42:02,840 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: Catholic personal physician named Polardari, whom he was probably fucking.

802
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,880
Speaker 2: Who is a man, and he was probably fucking Polardari.

803
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,359
Speaker 1: No one. I don't try him to do anything else

804
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 1: when he's just consistently fucking all the time.

805
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 3: You know.

806
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 2: He writes about writing poetry as like it's like hard,

807
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 2: and he does that annoying thing where writers are like,

808
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,840
Speaker 2: this is the hardest thing anyone's ever done. I am

809
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: forcing the muse out of me or whatever, you know,

810
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 2: because I think the thing that he actually enjoys, yeah,

811
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 2: is just having sex constantly. He was absolutely nagging and

812
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: monstrous to Polardari if they were dating. Whether or not

813
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 2: they were dating, he was absolutely just like pretty verbally

814
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: abusive to Polardari. And so that kind of implies that

815
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 2: that might have been. He has tempestuous moods, and so

816
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the way that people are

817
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: behaving around him is like understandable in that context. You know,

818
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 2: he settles in Switzerland, where the most famous thing about

819
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 2: him happens. Well from the modern sense, at the time,

820
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 2: he was famous for like everything else. But at the time,

821
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 2: but now these days people are like, oh, yeah, the

822
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 2: guy whose fucking house Frankenstein was written at because he

823
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 2: was staying at some chateau or whatever the fucking Switzerland

824
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 2: for the summer. Because he's rich as fuck, you know,

825
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:23,799
Speaker 2: he's like they're always like, oh, and then he was

826
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,279
Speaker 2: like broken in debt, and they're like, there's noble rich,

827
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:29,720
Speaker 2: and then there's like normal people like like there's noble poor,

828
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: which is way the fuck above like even like middle

829
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 2: class rich.

830
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's not broke, like like someone like me is broke.

831
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 4: I gu it's a different level of broke we're talking.

832
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 2: About, Yeah, exactly. So he's at the chateau. I've covered

833
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,479
Speaker 2: this a little bit on other things. The writers Mary

834
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 2: Shelley and Percy Shelley show up to his house in

835
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: Switzerland on the lake. They spend the summer and the

836
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: year without a summer there because the reason the year

837
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 2: was without a summers because some volcanos fucked up the weather.

838
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 2: Guests in the hotel across the lake would pay to

839
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 2: use telescope to spy on the famous rockstar poets over there,

840
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 2: and people like to conjecture about what they got up to,

841
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:14,239
Speaker 2: and I suspect it was horny, but who knows. Mary

842
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: Shelley wrote Frankenstein there and invented science fiction. And Polodori,

843
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 2: the physician who was also there, who's never remembered because

844
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 2: he's a servant, because there's a ton of people there,

845
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 2: because they have fucking servants there, who are people people

846
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: You can get that.

847
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 4: Fucking servants as in servants, they are fucking or fucking

848
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 4: servants like fucking servants.

849
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 2: I you know, probably both in this kind of a

850
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 2: little bit of both. Yeah, Polodori started writing The Vampire.

851
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 2: If you want to hear me do a reading of

852
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,919
Speaker 2: The Vampire, listen to Coolsone Media book Club. I read

853
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 2: it recently because it's about an evil, seductive vampire named

854
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: Lord Ruthven, the same name that Lady Lamb used to

855
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,879
Speaker 2: make fun of Lord Byron and this Lord Ruthven, who

856
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 2: is clearly Byron, is traveling around with his friend around

857
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,160
Speaker 2: year up especially the Mediterranean, and just fucking up people's lives.

858
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 2: And it is just the barest, most obvious. I am

859
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,919
Speaker 2: traveling with a vampire. What the fuck is my life?

860
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 2: Which is to say, Lord Byron is the first vampire,

861
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 2: and therefore I can tie computers back to vampires. It's

862
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 2: the whole.

863
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:24,360
Speaker 4: Point, masterfully, that weaving is quite masterful.

864
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,440
Speaker 2: Thanks with a ready yarn on a big bulletin board.

865
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 3: When you're using your computer, think vampires.

866
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Bulladori is going to die young as hell,

867
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 2: probably by suicide. The toxicology reports are like, oh, it

868
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 2: was like some reason to think it might not have been.

869
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 2: His life was functionally ruined by Lord Byron. Or maybe

870
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 2: he died because he was sucked dry of all his

871
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: blood because Lord Byron is actually a vampire who's to tone.

872
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 2: After Switzerland, the vampire Lord Ruthven, sorry, Lord Byron went

873
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: on to where he slept his way into a secret

874
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 2: society trying to free Italy from the Austrians, which is cool.

875
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: Then he started a newspaper called The Liberal, which is

876
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 2: about revolution because they liberals were made different back then.

877
00:46:13,640 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 2: He studied Armenian. He wrote I think the first English

878
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 2: language Armenian grammar book, but I'm not sure, and he

879
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,960
Speaker 2: wrote about the needs for Armenian liberation. He kept fucking

880
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 2: people's wives the whole time. Of course, he would write

881
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 2: a three thousand word letter to his publisher back in

882
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 2: England just talking about how he's fucking the wife of

883
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 2: some baker.

884
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:42,960
Speaker 4: Like like, his publisher is like, why are you telling

885
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 4: me this?

886
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 3: Where are your pages?

887
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: I know I can't publish this until you die, like,

888
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,000
Speaker 2: and those letters are definitely published now because everything he

889
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: wrote that didn't get burned is published. But and meanwhile,

890
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 2: Greece is like, what have we didn't have Ottoman rulers anymore?

891
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,560
Speaker 2: What if we were like Greece again? So you have

892
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 2: the Greek War of Independence that goes from eighteen twenty

893
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: one to eighteen twenty nine. In eighteen twenty three, pretty

894
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 2: early on, Lord Byron joins in accounts that dislike him

895
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 2: are like he was like, oh, I'm so special and important.

896
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to go become the king of Greece and

897
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to be a famous war hero because war

898
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: is fun, adventure and I like adventure. I think there's

899
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,399
Speaker 2: some of that, But I think it's two things happening. One,

900
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: I think this man had a death wish. I think

901
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 2: he felt like his race was run at this point,

902
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,919
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure that's my own conjecture. And Two,

903
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 2: the thing I know a little bit more about is

904
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 2: that Greek rebels were writing him, being like, hey, you

905
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 2: know how you like Greece and always write about us

906
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 2: and like exoticize us and made all your money writing

907
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:47,480
Speaker 2: about it. Why actually he didn't take any money, made

908
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 2: all your fame writing about us, Why don't you come

909
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 2: throw down? And so they talk him into going, and

910
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: he's like, yeah, all right, I talk a big game.

911
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: Time to fucking put my money where my mouth does.

912
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 2: He's in his mid thirties at this point. He sailed

913
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 2: to Greece. He had to dodge Ottoman patrols in order

914
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: to do it. He spent his fortune retrofitting the Greek

915
00:48:09,080 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 2: navy and supporting the rebel cause. Like literally, he sells

916
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: his estate in England like he actually now he like

917
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 2: actually goes broke for something, and he gives all of

918
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:22,399
Speaker 2: his money to the cause, and especially a younger man

919
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,400
Speaker 2: who he was trying to fuck but who didn't love

920
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: him back? And then he gets sick. It's the nineteenth century.

921
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 2: Don't catch a cold in the nineteenth century. But his

922
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: doctors they tried everything, you know what they tried. They

923
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 2: tried everything. They tried blood letting, they tried animas, they

924
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: even tried bringing up blisters on his skin. None of that,

925
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 2: friend was working. No, not of it, which is funny

926
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 2: because Polodari his like personal physician. That was the thing

927
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,880
Speaker 2: he was trained into. There's a word for it. I

928
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 2: forget the word for it, but it's like the like

929
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: doctors at the time or like we have to get

930
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: the bad out of you through whatever, which is like,

931
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 2: I mean, you can physically remove an infection from your

932
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 2: body in certain contexts, but really it's like really rare,

933
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: like like if you have like a cut that's infected,

934
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 2: you can kind of don't I'm not advocating anyone do this.

935
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: You can kind of like get all that stuff out

936
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 2: of there and clean it again, you know, like if

937
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:21,920
Speaker 2: you catch it early enough. I'm not This is not

938
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: how you do medicine overall. There's every now and then

939
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 2: you can get the bad out of you. It is rare.

940
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,319
Speaker 4: So when they were like putting leeches on people, it

941
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 4: wasn't like completely crazy that it's not based out of

942
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 4: absolutely nothing that that was going to be effective.

943
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 2: Maybe I know less about blood letting, okay, and I

944
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: only know a little bit about like removing like literally,

945
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 2: I mean, there's just some things that you're like, oh,

946
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 2: we're going to go in and cut out that tumor,

947
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 2: or we're going to you know, so they're at least

948
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 2: coming from a cause of like, oh there's a bad

949
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 2: thing in you, We're going to remove it, right. You know.

950
00:49:56,120 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 2: I want to know more about this stuff because I

951
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: think eventually the way that we currently look at medicine

952
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 2: and is going to look as silly as the Four

953
00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 2: Humors did, you know?

954
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 3: I totally agree.

955
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they'll be like the way that we talk about

956
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: tuberculos is killing everyone and people are like, god this

957
00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 2: people just didn't have antibiotics one day. If humanity survives

958
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 2: the current climate crisis, people are going to look back

959
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 2: and say that about cancer. You know, they're like Wow,

960
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: They'll be like given doing a history podcast and he'd

961
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 2: be like, you would't believe what this bitch died of

962
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: fucking cancer? Just everyone's just dying of cancer.

963
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:29,359
Speaker 4: Don't get cancer in twenty twenty four, y'all. I know

964
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 4: we're making like pithy little jokes about it, like we

965
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:32,320
Speaker 4: are now.

966
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and that will be good. I am glad that.

967
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:37,839
Speaker 2: I mean, people still die of tuberculous all the time,

968
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 2: but that is a crime of poverty, not a anyway whatever.

969
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,799
Speaker 2: So he's sick, and at one point he says there

970
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: are many more die of the lancet than the lance,

971
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 2: which is his pithy way of saying, I don't think

972
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 2: that all this blood letting is good for me. Later

973
00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: doctors have been like, this is the reason he died

974
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 2: is they took out all of his blood while he

975
00:50:58,120 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 2: was trying to fight a cold. He died on April nineteenth,

976
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 2: eighteen twenty four, on the west coast of Greece, at

977
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,440
Speaker 2: the age of thirty six. He never fought a battle

978
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 2: in Greece. He failed at uniting all the various factions

979
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,320
Speaker 2: while he was alive. But while he was there he

980
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: did a fuck ton of humanitarian work for both Christians

981
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 2: and Muslims there, and he became a symbol and an

982
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 2: icon of Greek rebels, succeeding in death what he failed

983
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 2: to do in life, Like there's a suburb of Athens

984
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 2: that's named after him, and his friends immediately burn his

985
00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,279
Speaker 2: memoirs lest his reputation be forever tarred, tarred with what

986
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: I wish I knew, Like realistically, it's probably all the

987
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:43,279
Speaker 2: stuff that I was like conjecturing about. But I don't know.

988
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what happens when you're dangerous to know.

989
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, as he was dying, he said, let not my

990
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 2: body be hacked or sent to England. Both requests were denied.

991
00:51:57,360 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 2: His lungs or maybe his heart of read both were

992
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,760
Speaker 2: like taken out and put in an urn in Greece,

993
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 2: so that Greece got to hold onto a little bit

994
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 2: of him their new hero, you know. And the rest

995
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: was sent to England. His body was sent to England,

996
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 2: and there was a place that was the most obvious

997
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,839
Speaker 2: and logical place to bury him. In Westminster Abbey. There

998
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 2: was all the famous poets got buried at Poet's Corner.

999
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: The dean was like, this man is the devil. He

1000
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,800
Speaker 2: is not getting buried here, no fucking way. Probably didn't cuss.

1001
00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 2: It wasn't until nineteen sixty nine that a memorial was

1002
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: placed for him at Westminster Abbey with all of the

1003
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,920
Speaker 2: other poets of his generation.

1004
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 3: Wow, that's so late.

1005
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 2: People did not the nobility did not like him for

1006
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 2: a very long time. Instead, he was buried near his

1007
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 2: own home, Nottingham, with a marble slab donated by the

1008
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 2: King of Greece because Greece wins its independence. Although he

1009
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:56,600
Speaker 2: really win independence. He rand up by the king.

1010
00:52:56,640 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 3: But whatever.

1011
00:52:59,280 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 2: His friends mission to statue, but nowhere would take it

1012
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,440
Speaker 2: for a long time. I think eventually it ends up

1013
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: at Cambridge to this college, but like for years they're like,

1014
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 2: we made a statue of the guy, and everyone's like, nah,

1015
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,360
Speaker 2: we're good like that guy. He was kind of sketchy,

1016
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 2: and it's like not for the right reasons, you know, Like,

1017
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,080
Speaker 2: but no one wants a statue to evil hedonism. He

1018
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,840
Speaker 2: was mourned by the working class of England and he

1019
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 2: was spurned by the nobility because even the way he

1020
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 2: wrote was like pulp adventure poetry. And almost two hundred

1021
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 2: years since his death, some of us still don't know

1022
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 2: what to make of him. That's where I land, like.

1023
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, you promised a complicated character and you

1024
00:53:45,600 --> 00:53:46,320
Speaker 4: sure delivered.

1025
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: I like my clean cut moral that's not true. I

1026
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 2: always like it into the messy moral complexities of people,

1027
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 2: but like, don't treat people the way he treated people.

1028
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: But also like there's nothing in apparently wrong with like

1029
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: sleeping with a bunch of people who want to sleep

1030
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 2: with you, you know, and like the society telling him that

1031
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,799
Speaker 2: that was wrong, especially the society had told him that

1032
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 2: he'd get hanged for. Like part of the scandal was

1033
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: that he liked performing anal I don't like to usually

1034
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 2: talk much about like specifics of sex because I'm kind

1035
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: of a kind of a prude on my own podcast,

1036
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 2: But he liked performing that on men and women, And

1037
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: so women who I believe consentually had that kind of

1038
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,399
Speaker 2: sex with him would later like make a big deal

1039
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: out of like this is why he's bad. Is he

1040
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 2: likes this it's illegal. And then the other thing, I

1041
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: actually don't know how it didn't end up in the script.

1042
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 2: One of the things that Lady Lamb did to him

1043
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 2: was through like clever, weird wordplay, blackmail him and be

1044
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,880
Speaker 2: like I know you like boys, so you should be

1045
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,319
Speaker 2: nice to me, you know, by like I think she

1046
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: like wrote like remember me in one of his books.

1047
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: That was like by a fame, a man who was

1048
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: like famously gay.

1049
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:02,920
Speaker 4: Something I don't like about the behavior here is people

1050
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 4: who enjoy all different kinds of sets then turning around

1051
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 4: and like using that to like blackmail or shame other

1052
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:13,120
Speaker 4: people that they've had that kind of sex with. It's

1053
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 4: like you're getting down that way too, Like who are

1054
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,040
Speaker 4: you to point a finger?

1055
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Or he was pressuring everyone into sex that

1056
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:24,560
Speaker 2: you know. It's like, I don't fucking know, you know,

1057
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 2: And no one can talk honestly about it because of

1058
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 2: the laws criminalizing sodomy and homosexuality. No one can actually

1059
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 2: say what was happening. That's my somehow tie it all together? Takeaway?

1060
00:55:40,840 --> 00:55:47,319
Speaker 2: I don't know, But there's your archetypical, mad, bad and

1061
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 2: dangerous to no guy. Yeah, his daughter was really into

1062
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 2: him and she basically invented software and we're gonna talk

1063
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: about her and computers that I promised on Wednesday.

1064
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:09,280
Speaker 3: This was a much more sexual episode than than I'm expecting.

1065
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 2: I love it, Okay, good, No, I like I again,

1066
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,760
Speaker 2: like I'm not like and I feel like I mostly

1067
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,439
Speaker 2: don't talk about the more details of this kind of thing,

1068
00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 2: but I feel like it's just necessary in this particular case, you.

1069
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 4: Know, absolutely, Like I feel like you need to know

1070
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 4: that fact because I didn't know that about the anal sex,

1071
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:32,960
Speaker 4: and so it does help contextualize exactly how these how

1072
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:34,799
Speaker 4: these figures were interacting with each other.

1073
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I think part of why I like

1074
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 2: studying history so much because there's so many versions of

1075
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,880
Speaker 2: history that people like take what they currently believe in

1076
00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,319
Speaker 2: project it backwards, like what we have is projections of

1077
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: ourselves backwards, you know, and trying to figure out how

1078
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,759
Speaker 2: wild people were and weren't in the past is like

1079
00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,799
Speaker 2: so fast to me because there's all these reads where

1080
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 2: it was like, no, that was unheard of, no one

1081
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 2: did that, And then there's other reads where like, well,

1082
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,360
Speaker 2: of course they did that. People have those bodies and

1083
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,600
Speaker 2: they go together in that you know, they can fit

1084
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 2: that way, so of course people did it. You know.

1085
00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 2: It's like it's really interesting to me because I think

1086
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 2: it says so much about you know, like like the

1087
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: Victorians actually just trashed history because they just projected Victorian

1088
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:24,840
Speaker 2: values out to the past, and so we're still unpacking

1089
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 2: all of the things that the Victorians tried to apply

1090
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,680
Speaker 2: retroactively and then it's annoying because it's like five thousand

1091
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,840
Speaker 2: rich white assholes in fucking London that the entire world's

1092
00:57:34,920 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 2: history lives in the shadow of their moral values, and

1093
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 2: it's so annoying.

1094
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 4: Anyway, Yeah, this is why it would be helpful of

1095
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:46,320
Speaker 4: some of this if there weren't laws that made people

1096
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 4: squeamish about writing some of this stuff down.

1097
00:57:48,520 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 2: Clearly, Yeah, totally. Well, if people want to, I don't

1098
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 2: have a good way to transfer that into your plug

1099
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: for your podcast. But where can people listen to you

1100
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 2: talking about stuff?

1101
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 4: Anal Sex doesn't come up a lot, but if you

1102
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 4: still want to hear the podcast, you can.

1103
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: Check it out.

1104
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 2: I come up on this show. I'm being like, I'm

1105
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 2: blushing and defensive.

1106
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 3: Anyway, please kids, has it come up?

1107
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 4: But all other kinds of things do that are still

1108
00:58:14,960 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 4: very interesting. The show was called There Are No Girls

1109
00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:17,760
Speaker 4: on the Internet.

1110
00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 2: Please check it out, all right, and we'll be back

1111
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 2: on Wednesday. By everyone.

1112
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1113
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,600
Speaker 1: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1114
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: visit our website cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us

1115
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: out on the Iheard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1116
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:42,240
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts