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Speaker 1: You're listening to Alive Again, a production of Psycopia Pictures

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Speaker 1: and iHeart Podcasts.

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Speaker 2: So my name is Scott. When I was twenty seven

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Speaker 2: years old, I had a stroke in a bathtub shooting

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Speaker 2: heroin and crack. The thing that's really hard about addiction,

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Speaker 2: and it's the part that no one else can see, right,

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Speaker 2: It's the total obsession of I want to get high.

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Speaker 2: I want to get high. I want to get high.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's all you can think about.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Alive Again, a podcast that showcases miraculous accounts

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Speaker 1: of human fragility and resilience from people whose lives were

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Speaker 1: forever altered after having almost died. These are first hand

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Speaker 1: accounts of near death experiences and more broadly, brushes with death.

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Speaker 1: Our mission is simple, find, explore, and share these stories

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Speaker 1: to remind us all of our shared human condition. Please

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Speaker 1: keep in mind these stories are true and maybe triggering

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Speaker 1: for some listener and discretion as advised.

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Speaker 2: In junior year of high school, I had a hernia

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Speaker 2: and they prescribed me oxycotton for my surgery. And when

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Speaker 2: I got to take that, it was just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm in love with this, Like this is I feel amazing,

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Speaker 2: Like everything is okay. And I remember even my dad

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Speaker 2: like saw it, like he started being like, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if we should give him these pills, you know.

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Speaker 2: After the surgery, he was kind of like, hey, we

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Speaker 2: just you know, we'll just take one, you know, and

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Speaker 2: then let's see how you feel. Back then, it was

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Speaker 2: like on the beginning.

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Speaker 3: Of the opioid epidemic.

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Speaker 2: This is probably like two thousand and three, two thousand

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Speaker 2: and four or something like that, so nobody really knew

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Speaker 2: how dangerous and what the world was about to see.

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Speaker 2: Either that kind of started a love affair. So it

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Speaker 2: was always in the back of my head. Like I

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Speaker 2: remember when they were like, you gotta have your wisdom

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Speaker 2: teeth taken out. I was like, fuck, yeah, they're gonna

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Speaker 2: give me pills. Yes. So like every every medical procedure

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Speaker 2: was exciting because it was like I may get some pills.

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Speaker 2: I graduated high school, moved to Athens, Georgia, so college.

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Speaker 2: As far as like managing emotions and seeming like life

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Speaker 2: was together and good, I was failing everything. I wasn't

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Speaker 2: a good student. I would have to take so much

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Speaker 2: adderall to get anything done, and then I would have

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Speaker 2: to eat a bunch of xanacs to come down from

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Speaker 2: the adderall so my whole life was just managing these

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Speaker 2: chemicals because I couldn't manage my own emotions. Basically, I

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Speaker 2: guess it might might have looked like I was okay

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Speaker 2: on the surface, but it was because chemicals were doing

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Speaker 2: all the work for me. So I moved back to

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Speaker 2: the small town. I'm going to go to Augusta State,

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Speaker 2: or whatever the fuck it was at the time. And

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Speaker 2: at the tail end of the summer, one of my

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Speaker 2: best friends died in a freak gas explosion and it

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Speaker 2: was the first like close person to me that ever died,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know how to handle it. And like

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Speaker 2: on the day of his funeral, I linked up with

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Speaker 2: a plug for opioids. That was the first time it

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Speaker 2: was ever like, oh, you can call this guy, give

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Speaker 2: him money and get oxy codone. So I immediately I

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Speaker 2: just got strung out for the first time on opiates.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't know like what being dope sick was.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know any of that, so it would be

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Speaker 2: like fuck, like I don't have any money. I gotta

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Speaker 2: fucking stop this. Like I'm crying all the time, and

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Speaker 2: I don't know if it's because my buddy's dead, or

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Speaker 2: if it's because you know, these pills are destroying my

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Speaker 2: life or what's going on. And then I would stop

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Speaker 2: and I would throw up and get real sick shit everywhere,

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Speaker 2: and you know, it was just terrible until finally, I

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Speaker 2: think it was like right after Christmas, I had just

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Speaker 2: like blown through so much money, and my parents were like,

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Speaker 2: what this going on? I finally told them and I

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Speaker 2: went to Penfield Christian Homes.

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Speaker 3: It's like a sick This Week.

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Speaker 2: Program, and they're like, yeah, God'll save you. Here's some

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Speaker 2: stuff about AA. When you get out, you should go

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Speaker 2: to a halfway house. So I went through the little thing.

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Speaker 2: I was feeling great. I wanted to be sober, like,

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Speaker 2: oh man, I feel incredible. And then I moved to

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Speaker 2: Atlanta with a bunch of guys I met there and

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Speaker 2: we all went to a halfway house. So this is

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Speaker 2: kind of getting Now. I'm in Atlanta, it's twenty eleven,

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Speaker 2: and I'm learning about AA and like, oh wow, this

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Speaker 2: is this is awesome, like a bunch of dudes hanging out,

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Speaker 2: we're not doing drugs, Like life is kind of manageable now.

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Speaker 2: And eventually, like I saw that newness is kind of

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Speaker 2: wore off for being sober, and everybody started relapsing. And

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Speaker 2: that was the first time it was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you can do heroin and just shoot it in your arm.

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Speaker 2: It's so much more economical than pills. So it was

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Speaker 2: a financial decision to starts to start shooting heroin. I

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Speaker 2: was driving in East Atlanta with you know, in the

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Speaker 2: middle of winter of like twenty thirteen, and I was

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Speaker 2: just going to get coffee one morning and the police

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Speaker 2: pulled me over and they were like, hey, let me

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Speaker 2: see your driver's licenses and that, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: you don't need one for this thing, and they were like, no,

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Speaker 2: you need a driver's license. And I was like, nah, definitely,

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Speaker 2: definitely not. The guy who loaned me this told me

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Speaker 2: you don't need a driver's license to drive this on

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Speaker 2: the street. So they arrest me for driving a moped

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Speaker 2: without a license. That was the first time I'd ever

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Speaker 2: been arrested. So I called my mom and she was like,

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Speaker 2: here's your one get out of jail. I'll call a bailbondsman.

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Speaker 2: So they let me out at two am with no phone,

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Speaker 2: no while nothing. I went into some restaurant downtown Atlanta,

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Speaker 2: called a friend like the one number I remember. They

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Speaker 2: came and got me. And then early the next morning

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Speaker 2: I had to be back to see the judge about

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Speaker 2: this thing with no phone, no wallet and you know,

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Speaker 2: trying to navigate from East Atlanta back to downtown to

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Speaker 2: meet with the judge at eight am. Finally get down

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Speaker 2: there and they were just confused as to like why

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Speaker 2: I'd even been arrested. It's a scooter violation, Like this

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Speaker 2: is bullshit.

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Speaker 3: So they were just like, I don't know what they

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Speaker 3: did with it. I've never been able to find.

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Speaker 2: The case again. I never got my mom, never got

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Speaker 2: her money back from the bail bondsman, like it just

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Speaker 2: went away.

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Speaker 3: But then I'm.

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Speaker 2: Left with, Okay, I have to go get my shit

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Speaker 2: from bankhead. I make it over there, I get my stuff,

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Speaker 2: and as I'm getting all my stuff, this guy runs

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Speaker 2: in to the building and he's like, hey, o sausage

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Speaker 2: biscuit truck just turned over on the highway out here.

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Speaker 2: Free sausage biscuits for everybody, like just go grab a

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Speaker 2: bunch of them. And so I'm like, oh fucky, I'm starving.

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Speaker 2: So I run out and there's a truck overturned like

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Speaker 2: on that like smaller highway and there's just sausage biscuits everywhere.

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Speaker 2: So I like shoved all these sausage biscuits in my jacket,

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Speaker 2: and I mean it was like puffed out like crazy.

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Speaker 2: So now I'm like, all right, well, you know, things

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Speaker 2: are looking up, Like I got all these sausage biscuits.

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Speaker 2: So it was like I got my sausage biscuits. I

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Speaker 2: definitely want to go get high. Like it's been a

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Speaker 2: crazy twenty four hours. Let me, let me go get

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Speaker 2: a shot. This is gonna be my last one, you know.

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Speaker 2: Also by this time, every shot is like this is it.

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Speaker 3: This is my last one. I'm turning my life around.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. So I go straight from lock up,

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Speaker 2: getting all my stuff back sausage biscuits to the gills.

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Speaker 2: I buy the dope and it's like pure white, which heroin.

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Speaker 2: At that time, it was like kind of brownish, and

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Speaker 2: so like I'm just walking down boulevard and I'm looking

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Speaker 2: at the bag and I'm like, this is fucking coke.

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Speaker 2: Like I'm gonna be sick soon, and this dude just

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Speaker 2: sold me coke, Like this is bullshit. But right as

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Speaker 2: I put it in my pocket, a cop just as

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Speaker 2: like we're pulls right there, and I'm able to like

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Speaker 2: pull it up back out of my pocket and flick

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Speaker 2: the baggie. But you know, I had syringes and stuff

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Speaker 2: in my backpack and all this stuff, so I was

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Speaker 2: I was fucked, but I didn't know how fucked. Maybe

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Speaker 2: they would let me go. I didn't know how stringent

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Speaker 2: they would be. But the cop gets out of his

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Speaker 2: car and I'm like, oh shit, like I'm stuffed to

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Speaker 2: the brim with sausage biscuits. So I accidentally just stumbled

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Speaker 2: and he was like, what's going on today? And I

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Speaker 2: just went sausage biscuits and he was like what. So

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Speaker 2: he immediately was like take your jacket off, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: he threw all my sausage biscuits away. He found the syringes. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's being a real dick about all that. And then

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Speaker 2: he's like looking around and he sees the dope bag

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Speaker 2: on the ground too, and you know, he's just like,

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Speaker 2: don't argue, this is yours, and they, you know, cops

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Speaker 2: will be like I'm going to charge you with this, this,

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Speaker 2: and this if you don't say this is yours and

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Speaker 2: all that, you know, and I'm just like, I don't

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Speaker 2: you know, I don't know what's going on. I'd been

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Speaker 2: on quite a bender. I had been arrested the day before.

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Speaker 2: I was like getting arrested walking home from jail. Basically

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Speaker 2: the next morning, they take me to the judge. The

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Speaker 2: judge grants me bond, A signature bond is what they

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Speaker 2: were doing, so I was able to just sign my

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Speaker 2: name that I would come to court, that I would

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Speaker 2: do a pre trial diversion, and they would let me go.

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Speaker 2: So I member the judge did all that, they took

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Speaker 2: me back upstairs. They lost me for a week and

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Speaker 2: a half and I fell asleep so like it was

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Speaker 2: like a week before. Like I kind of like slept

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Speaker 2: for a week and then woke up and was like, wait,

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Speaker 2: am I still here? What the fuck is going on here?

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Speaker 2: And then yeah, like after a week and a half

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Speaker 2: of being in there, finally one of.

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Speaker 3: The guards was like, who are you?

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Speaker 2: Like, what is your name? And she went and checked.

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Speaker 2: So after all of that, my family comes up. I

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Speaker 2: go to rehab again. I get sober again. I'm loving

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Speaker 2: it again. I graduate from the program, I leave, I

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Speaker 2: moved back downtown. I start getting high. I don't know

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Speaker 2: that's that was kind of when like the hopelessness was

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Speaker 2: just like like this shit isn't gonna get sorted out.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to die early. I'm going to have a

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Speaker 2: good time and I'll try to manage as best I can.

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Speaker 2: So that went on for like a year, and then

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Speaker 2: a body of mine who I had been in rehab with,

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Speaker 2: was like, move in with me over here by crog Street,

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Speaker 2: get cleaned up, we'll go to meetings, we'll do all

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Speaker 2: this stuff. It'll be it'll be good. So of course

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Speaker 2: I was still getting high and I had gotten really

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Speaker 2: into I made this concoction. So to break down and

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Speaker 2: shoot crack, you need a little like citric acid. So

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Speaker 2: I would just take lemons and like just like juice,

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Speaker 2: a little lemon into the spoon, put a little.

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Speaker 3: Crack with a lot of heroin. I got really.

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Speaker 2: Into these speedballs, and it gave like, you know, a

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Speaker 2: great sensation, but also like a lovely lemony scent on

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Speaker 2: the back of your throat when you would shoot it.

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Speaker 2: It hurt really bad when you missed, which was starting

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Speaker 2: to happen a lot because all my veins were blown out.

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Speaker 2: So I got really into shooting those speedballs and the

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Speaker 2: way the bathroom in the apartment was set up was

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Speaker 2: like the toilet was right next to the bathtub, and

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Speaker 2: I got super into just like sitting in the bathtub

216
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Speaker 2: for like hours, like I mean like six hours, eight

217
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Speaker 2: hours to twelve hours to like a full day, and

218
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Speaker 2: I would watch Agatha Christie mysteries.

219
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Speaker 3: I was doing that for like.

220
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,160
Speaker 2: A couple of weeks, and the crack slowly started to

221
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Speaker 2: get more than the heroin. I was just like getting

222
00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:28,800
Speaker 2: into chasing the rush of you know, a shot of

223
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,240
Speaker 2: crack just like blash you into this weird dimension where

224
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Speaker 2: it's like hard to breathe and you kind of hear

225
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Speaker 2: a freight train in your ears, and I mean it

226
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Speaker 2: is fucking intense as so, going from like I need

227
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Speaker 2: a shot in the morning, I need a shot at lunch,

228
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Speaker 2: I need a shot tonight to keep from being dope sick.

229
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Speaker 2: It was like I need a shot every fifteen minutes,

230
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Speaker 2: like over and over and over and over, and you'd

231
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,240
Speaker 2: take a shot of crack and you would throw up

232
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Speaker 2: everywhere and be like, oh, I feel so good. So

233
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Speaker 2: one night my roommate was at his girlfriend's I'm doing

234
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Speaker 2: my thing, and you know, it's tough to recall, but

235
00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: all I remember is waking up in a bathtub by myself,

236
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Speaker 2: thrashing all around in the bathtub and be.

237
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Speaker 3: Like what the fuck?

238
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Speaker 4: What the fuck?

239
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Speaker 2: My left arm was completely inoperable, like I could not

240
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,680
Speaker 2: move it at all, and you know, and like started

241
00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 2: crying because it was just like what the fuck just happened?

242
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:43,240
Speaker 2: You know, I just could not really function or like

243
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,360
Speaker 2: think straight, or like what's going on? The tub is

244
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 2: so cold, Like you know, how long have I been out?

245
00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 2: Is it day?

246
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Speaker 3: Is it not?

247
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,400
Speaker 2: You know, all that stuff was going through my head.

248
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 2: And then like eventually I just like calmed down, dried

249
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:01,600
Speaker 2: myself off, like went to bed, and then the next morning,

250
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 2: a girl that I was dating, I say dating, but

251
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,240
Speaker 2: she was like hanging out to make sure like someone

252
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,760
Speaker 2: was kind of close if I needed to be revived

253
00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 2: at some point, you know, she convinced me that I

254
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,920
Speaker 2: needed to go to detox and I was kind of

255
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,400
Speaker 2: like done with it at that point too to some degree,

256
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,320
Speaker 2: so I went to Decab crisis Center to try to

257
00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,760
Speaker 2: kick some dope. The thing that's really hard about addiction,

258
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 2: and it's the part that no one else can see, right,

259
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:39,760
Speaker 2: It's the total obsession of I want to get high.

260
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,160
Speaker 2: I want to get high. I want to get high.

261
00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 2: I mean, it's all you can think about. It is

262
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,960
Speaker 2: all you can think about. There's no reasoning with it.

263
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,200
Speaker 2: You can pray about it, and you can meditate. But

264
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 2: like in those like acute stages of addiction, I mean,

265
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 2: it is the hardest thing that someone could could go through.

266
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,360
Speaker 2: To abstain from drugs when you're obsessed with it is

267
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,320
Speaker 2: just it's kind of impossible. I always had to be

268
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:13,200
Speaker 2: locked up to create space between it. So I go

269
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 2: to the cab crisis center. They were only giving me

270
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 2: like kalanidine to like deal with the withdrawal symptoms, and

271
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 2: which was fine, but like I was taking so much

272
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,080
Speaker 2: of it. I was just like hanging out in a wheelchair,

273
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 2: like I refused to walk around. Until one day they

274
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,520
Speaker 2: did like a med call, you know, like kind of

275
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,360
Speaker 2: like a dinner bell situation where like come and get it,

276
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 2: and I stood up and like fell down and just

277
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 2: busted my face. I woke up in the arms of

278
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,440
Speaker 2: like this simalion man who was like trying to save me.

279
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 2: He's like a really sweet dude. And then I passed

280
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 2: out again. Woke up and some ambulance driver who was

281
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 2: trying to like hook me up on an IV and

282
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,920
Speaker 2: like he thought I was still passed out, and I

283
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,080
Speaker 2: just heard him go, these junkies burn up. They're fucking veins.

284
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 2: You can't find any anywhere. And I was just like, hey, dude,

285
00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:07,919
Speaker 2: like god, damn it, just give it to me, like

286
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:08,800
Speaker 2: I can do it.

287
00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:09,640
Speaker 3: I can, I.

288
00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 2: Can, you know, put this thing in so so anyway,

289
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,160
Speaker 2: I was just kind of in and out of consciousness.

290
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 2: Though I don't know what they did to me at

291
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 2: that hospital, but when they really started checking me out,

292
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:26,600
Speaker 2: they were like, hey, have you had a stroke in

293
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,639
Speaker 2: the last couple of days? And I was like, what

294
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,280
Speaker 2: are you? Oh shit, that's what that was in the bathtub.

295
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:34,359
Speaker 3: Oh my god.

296
00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 2: And at this point too, I'm like bleeding and have

297
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 2: a huge black eye from falling on my face during

298
00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,040
Speaker 2: med call, and you know, just like it's just like

299
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:47,040
Speaker 2: holy shit, you know, like my life is in pieces,

300
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:49,639
Speaker 2: like my health is fucked at this point. You know,

301
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,560
Speaker 2: it's just like I'm.

302
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 3: Not doing well at all.

303
00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,920
Speaker 2: They send me back, they kind of patch me off

304
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,600
Speaker 2: at whatever hospital that was. I wake back up in

305
00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,600
Speaker 2: the cab crisis center again, and I was like you

306
00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 2: know what, I'm ready to be sober. I'm gonna leave.

307
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,000
Speaker 2: And all the doctors like this is a terrible idea.

308
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,080
Speaker 2: You don't need to leave what we can't hold you.

309
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,840
Speaker 2: And I call an uber and have them take me

310
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:18,960
Speaker 2: to go get dope.

311
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:21,080
Speaker 3: So anyway, I go.

312
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 2: Get high, straight from to cab County and then I

313
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 2: like walked back to the apartment I had had a

314
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,760
Speaker 2: stroke in a couple days before, and my roommate was

315
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,040
Speaker 2: there and he was like, hey, you you've got to go,

316
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,440
Speaker 2: like you have to go. And the girl who had

317
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,159
Speaker 2: been around to revive me, she showed up and I

318
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 2: had had a long history with her.

319
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,080
Speaker 3: She saved my life many times. She was she was

320
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:46,840
Speaker 3: she was great.

321
00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,000
Speaker 2: She started calling my mom and they're talking about sending

322
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,200
Speaker 2: me to like a six month rehab in the middle

323
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 2: of fucking nowhere. And I remember I was like smoking

324
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,400
Speaker 2: a cigarette inside and I was just ashing it on

325
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 2: my belly.

326
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:02,760
Speaker 3: Like I was just sitting.

327
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 2: There arguing high. It was just a very sad scene

328
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 2: of like this basically man child having these bullshit reasons

329
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 2: of why they shouldn't have to go to rehab. Eventually,

330
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 2: after like much arguing, I agreed to go to that rehab,

331
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 2: and you know, I go, I go into that rehab

332
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,639
Speaker 2: and they like shave my fucking head. And again I

333
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 2: had been running wild on Edgewood and Old Fourth Ward

334
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,360
Speaker 2: and you know, doing all this shit. And now I'm

335
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 2: in South Georgia with a bunch of like redneck meth heads.

336
00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,399
Speaker 2: So I'm like, oh my god, this is terrible and

337
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,800
Speaker 2: uh and I'm and I'm detoxing, you know, which I

338
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,320
Speaker 2: wasn't like, it wasn't the biggest deal. I had detoxed

339
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,439
Speaker 2: in jail a bunch and you know, so that was

340
00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,600
Speaker 2: but but it was just I was so down, like

341
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,080
Speaker 2: it was it's just so horrible. I hate South Georgia.

342
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 2: Like I won't go there to this day, Like I

343
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:05,720
Speaker 2: just don't.

344
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 3: It's too hot. It was just too much for me.

345
00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 2: So I like, so you kind of like ring the

346
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,400
Speaker 2: bell type situation at that rehab.

347
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,560
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, guys, I'm out.

348
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 2: They'll like they kind of act like all they owe

349
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,240
Speaker 2: you is a trip to the bus stop if you

350
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 2: want to leave. So you know, I called my mom,

351
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,560
Speaker 2: which is what you know, I would always turn to

352
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,520
Speaker 2: when things got bad enough or even when things were

353
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,120
Speaker 2: just kind of bad it would just be like, Mom, Yeah,

354
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: things are bad. So she got me a hotel room

355
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,560
Speaker 2: for the night and then a bus ticket and I

356
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 2: was to go back to my hometown. I get home

357
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,080
Speaker 2: and my mom is seeing me for the first time

358
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 2: since the stroke, since the black eye from falling down

359
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:01,000
Speaker 2: and being.

360
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,440
Speaker 3: Held by the smollion man and all that.

361
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 2: So she's like Jesus Christ, because again, I you know,

362
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:10,679
Speaker 2: in high school and college, I was like, at two

363
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,280
Speaker 2: twenty like kind of a robust person, and now I'm

364
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 2: just a skeleton with a black eye and a shaved head,

365
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,439
Speaker 2: and you know, so she kept calling me gaunt. She

366
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 2: was like, oh, you're so gaunt, you know. That was

367
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 2: what she kept going back to. So my mom was like,

368
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 2: all right, you're gonna do some stuff around at the house.

369
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I need money to buy materials

370
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 2: to do what you're asking me to do. So she

371
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:37,439
Speaker 2: just gave me a check and I could go cash

372
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: that at the bank and go buy the lumber that

373
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,240
Speaker 2: I needed to do whatever. And that worked really good,

374
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,719
Speaker 2: and I bought lumber. So like the next four days,

375
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 2: I did the same thing, but just bought drugs with it.

376
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: You know, I think I made it like five days

377
00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: in my hometown. My family is very large and they

378
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 2: all still lived there. And I remember I was on

379
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,040
Speaker 2: the phone with a guy who was like my AA

380
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 2: sponsor in Atlanta, telling him everything that had just happened

381
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 2: and how I was like gonna clean up my act

382
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 2: and all the while also being like, I mean, everything

383
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: is really good, but you know, I am gonna get

384
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,360
Speaker 2: it together. And then as I was talking to him,

385
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 2: two police, three aunts, and four uncles show up in

386
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,679
Speaker 2: the backyard. My aunts and uncles had heard what was

387
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: going on with me and my mom and they were

388
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 2: like fuck that, Like no, So my uncles were like,

389
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:44,800
Speaker 2: we're stepping in, like this motherfucker is running wild. We're

390
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,119
Speaker 2: about to like solve this problem. And the sad part

391
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 2: was the safest place for me at that moment was

392
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: in jail, Like I had just left a rehab, Like

393
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 2: they can't forcibly keep you there. But the thing about

394
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 2: jail is you can't leave. So they were having me

395
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 2: arrested for check fraud, putting a handcuff, you know, like

396
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: having handcuffs put on you in your childhood backyard. They

397
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,919
Speaker 2: again didn't really know what to do with me in

398
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: the jail, for the detox portion of it, and they

399
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 2: just put me in isolation for like ten days. They

400
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 2: put me in isolation as I was kicking dope and

401
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 2: I was just like losing my mind in there. And

402
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 2: it was funny because I started kind of noticing like, Okay,

403
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 2: I was like, the second I get out of here,

404
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 2: I can get money from here. I can go get

405
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: some dope from here. I can do that, you know,

406
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: just like spiraling, spiraling, like for ten days straight on

407
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: how I could get high again. And that started going away,

408
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 2: and it was just like, God, damn it, I want

409
00:23:55,320 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 2: a cigarette so bad. It started obsessing about nicotine. And

410
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: then eventually, after like two weeks of being in jail,

411
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 2: it was just like, God, I want some goddamn skittles

412
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: so bad.

413
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: Before they move me into general population, I gotta go.

414
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 2: See the judge. And they got to talk about, you know,

415
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: what they're gonna fucking do with me, and when the

416
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 2: court date is and all that stuff. And they bring

417
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: me into the little courtroom inside the jail, and the

418
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: judge was my old Sunday school teacher. I can't really

419
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: remember that much about the discussion that happened, but basically

420
00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: we settled on he had been talking to my mom

421
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: and family. There is no bail, no amount of money

422
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: could get me out. You can leave when your mom says,

423
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,360
Speaker 2: So they got to like use this motherfucker as their

424
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: personal jail to keep me in there, like until they

425
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: could figure out like what to do with me.

426
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 3: So anyway, so we have that discussion.

427
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,120
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, I don't know. Whenever your family comes

428
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: and gets you, I guess like you can leave. So

429
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:11,640
Speaker 2: I go back in general population. I have no idea

430
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,959
Speaker 2: of like when I'm getting out or like, They're like,

431
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,399
Speaker 2: I just don't know. I'm just fucking in there, you know.

432
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: And it was miserable and I can like look out

433
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,639
Speaker 2: of this thin window and like see all these places

434
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 2: that I used to go as a kid, and like,

435
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like you're like, what the fuck

436
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: happened to my life? And I remember being so worried

437
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 2: about the outside world, and like all of the manipulations

438
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: and schemes and lies and all this shit that I

439
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 2: had going on out there all going to come to

440
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,160
Speaker 2: a head now because I'm not out there to keep.

441
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 3: All the bullshit up.

442
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 2: It's like, fuck, everybody's gonna figure everything out now. Because

443
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm not out there to throw enough chaos into their

444
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 2: lives to keep things distorted so that they'll, you know,

445
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 2: now they'll finally see how big of a piece of

446
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: shit I am. I remember thinking that, like, if I

447
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 2: continue on this line of thought, I'm going to go insane,

448
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,360
Speaker 2: and like I'm not going to come back from it,

449
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: like I'm going to lose who I am forever. If

450
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 2: I can't surrender this bullshit, let me surrender. I'm going

451
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: to surrender to the process, like I've heard tell of

452
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 2: people recovering from drug addiction and alcoholism, Like maybe maybe

453
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 2: maybe this will work for me this time. My family

454
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 2: has had me arrested. I've been abandoned. No one and

455
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: wants to have anything to do with me, and rightly.

456
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:53,280
Speaker 2: So after two and a half weeks or something like that,

457
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 2: I just get the call, you know, hey, pack your shit,

458
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 2: you're going and my uncle, who's a preacher, my mom

459
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: took me back to a different location of the six

460
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: month boot camp big book AA work camp type place

461
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: that was like closer to where I grew up.

462
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: It's called the Bridges of Hope.

463
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 2: And the one that I went to was also kind

464
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: of like outside of Augusta, and I'd grown up like

465
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 2: turkey hunting all around that property. So it felt very

466
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,800
Speaker 2: like things started to come together that I hadn't manipulated,

467
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 2: that I hadn't told a ton of eyes to get

468
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 2: what I want. Like a bunch of good shit started

469
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 2: happening to me that was not of me, and it

470
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: was It was fucking weird. It was kind of weird.

471
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 2: And so I got to the Bridges of Hope and

472
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: I already had a shaved head, so they didn't need

473
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 2: to reshave my head, and I was like super content.

474
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 2: I remember like getting on the bed the mattress there.

475
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is fucking awesome. And then they

476
00:27:57,240 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 2: would get food from the food bank and there was

477
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 2: all these cakes and I just fucking was shoving my

478
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 2: face full of sweets and all this stuff, and you know,

479
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, this is amazing. And smoked cigarettes

480
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: and met a bunch of the guys that they were cool,

481
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: and then like all this gratitude came over and after

482
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: two days I was like fuck this place.

483
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,440
Speaker 3: It was like I hate this shit.

484
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 2: Luckily, the judge, my Sunday school teacher was like, hey,

485
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 2: if you leave there, you're going to prison. So luckily

486
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: after that, like you know, immediate gratitude happened.

487
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 3: Immediately wore off. I was like, fuck, well, I'm not

488
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 3: gonna go to prison.

489
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 2: And I sat and I stayed, and I started to

490
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:48,000
Speaker 2: do the suggestions that were laid out to me, and

491
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: I read. I read a bunch of twelve step literature,

492
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 2: which helped a lot. The whole rehab was set up

493
00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 2: in a way where all the residents were like there

494
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 2: was a crew that cooked for everybody, and there was

495
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 2: a crew that took.

496
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: Care of the garden, and a crew that took care

497
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 3: of the road.

498
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 2: So, you know, I just worried about my little jobs

499
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 2: and taking care of everybody and making sure to talk

500
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: to people. You know, you would you would hear and

501
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 2: feel your cell phone going off all the time. You

502
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 2: didn't have any cell phone, So it was like there

503
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 2: was a cell phone detox that occurred to where it's like,

504
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: I don't know, you don't realize like how much that

505
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 2: shit kind of fucked you up too, you know, the

506
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: addiction to your phone. And it just allowed me to

507
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 2: be more present and eventually very happy with my life

508
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: because in this like little place that I was at,

509
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 2: I had a purpose. I was helping these other guys

510
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 2: I could make everyone laugh, and then like they like

511
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 2: slowly like moved into leadership positions as I just continued

512
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: to seek, you know, a more spiritual way of life.

513
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: I guess, is how all say it. Since I started

514
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: to like make that positive turn at the bridges of hope,

515
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: there has not been a moment in the last eight

516
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 2: and a half years. This is this all happened eight

517
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:22,719
Speaker 2: and a half years ago. There's not been a moment

518
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: where I'm like, I'm gonna go get high right now

519
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: and somebody had to talk me off the ledge that

520
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: like has not happened at all. There's been times of like,

521
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 2: oh they're smoking weed and skiing. That looks fun, but

522
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: never has it been like, holy fuck, I have got

523
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: to go get high or anything like that. So that

524
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 2: that's the most miraculous things that's ever happened to me,

525
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: To have that lifted from me. The process was chaotic,

526
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: long winded, and you know, just kind of insane. But

527
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 2: once I got to that point, once I was four

528
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: WSD to just like take the fucking medicine and sit

529
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 2: there for six months and let the process take hold.

530
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,960
Speaker 2: I have not had a problem with getting high since then.

531
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: So my life now is plumbing. My uncles were plumbers,

532
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 2: so I grew up plumbing, so I had like kind

533
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: of a skill. I wasn't any good, really, I was

534
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,959
Speaker 2: a good helper maybe. And I eventually moved back to

535
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 2: Atlanta after rehab and started working for a guy from

536
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: AA who had a plumbing company, and started plumbing, and

537
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: it just became clear I really enjoyed working with my hands.

538
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 2: It keeps my mind busy and I really enjoy it.

539
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 2: So I just nerded out on plumbing and just like

540
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 2: loved it so much. And I found two buddies who

541
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: were all also sober and have similar stories, who are

542
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: also working for the same company, and they were nerds

543
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 2: about it. And eventually we worked for a bunch of

544
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: plumbing companies in Atlanta until we set up an LLC

545
00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 2: to do our side work and it's grown into like

546
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 2: a thirty person company now where we have our own

547
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: plumbing company, and so it's kind of full with that. Yeah,

548
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: it's not like I'm still a member of twelve step groups,

549
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 2: but my life is just very full of, you know,

550
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 2: taking care of this company. A lot of my guys

551
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: are sober. My business partners are sober, so that support

552
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: I still get it. When I'm in a ditch digging

553
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: a sewer line, I can be like, hey, dude, I've

554
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 2: really been struggling with my anger because of this, this

555
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 2: and this, and they're like, yeah, I've had that too.

556
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 2: You know. It's just like I'm having I'm blessed to

557
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to like just turn around and talk

558
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 2: to somebody who had addiction issues and doesn't anymore due

559
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 2: to twelve staff or a more spiritual way of living.

560
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: I have that at my disposal all the time. And again,

561
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 2: it was one of those things that just naturally happened.

562
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 2: You start to you know, when it's hard to see

563
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: in the moments, but when you start to look back,

564
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 2: like the best things that have happened in my life

565
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: are not of my design. Like if you would have

566
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 2: asked me on the day that I was arrested and

567
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: was in front of my Sunday school teacher as the judge,

568
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 2: like where do you see.

569
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 3: Your life in five years?

570
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: Like, you know, you could not call this shit, you know.

571
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 2: So that's probably the craziest thing. So today, when I'm

572
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 2: practicing awareness, I'm actively trying to do better as a human.

573
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 2: The best way I've found to do that is to

574
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: try to remove myself from the situation, remove.

575
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 3: My ego, get out of the fucking way of.

576
00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: The process, and just be of service to others or

577
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: to the process itself. And usually the best things happen

578
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: by doing that.

579
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Alive again. Joining me for a conversation

580
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,280
Speaker 1: about today's story are my other Alive against story producers

581
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: Nicholas Dakowski and Print Day, and I'm your host, Dan Bush.

582
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 5: I had a very I feel like I had a

583
00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:59,840
Speaker 5: very personal connection to Scott's story. I have not struggled

584
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 5: with addiction to the level that he did, but I

585
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:13,839
Speaker 5: have personally struggled hard with alcohol dependency, with alcoholism or

586
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,279
Speaker 5: alcohol disused disorder, whatever they call it these days. That's

587
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 5: what I had, And I know what not necessarily chasing

588
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 5: the high, but chasing the numb that allows you to

589
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 5: not have to deal with your own head and what's

590
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 5: wrong with it or why it's wrong. And you know,

591
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 5: having spoken to Scott about his story, there was just

592
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 5: something that felt very familiar and something that I I

593
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 5: think you know, always bears discussion, and that's that is

594
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 5: what addiction does. To your brain and what it does

595
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:54,840
Speaker 5: to your soul to a certain extent.

596
00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't really go into or at least I

597
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: didn't hear in his story any indication of like the trauma.

598
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: Mostly you hear about the trauma or the disconnect that

599
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 1: sets somebody off into this path of addiction of behavior,

600
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: and he didn't go into much of that. He just

601
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: sort of told the story itself of like how he

602
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: managed to survive barely over years and years and years

603
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 1: of this this monkey on his back.

604
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 5: To a large extent, he touches very briefly on you know,

605
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 5: the opioid epidemic. He didn't. He wasn't like he you know,

606
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 5: he did what kids do.

607
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: I mean, like the.

608
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 5: Story about him, you know, going and buying weed when

609
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 5: he's twelve years old at a pool hall and getting

610
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 5: getting robbed. But even that is just kind of a

611
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 5: thing that kids do. They they're like, I want to

612
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 5: try marijuana because it was about it, and they get

613
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 5: in a dumb situations. But where his trouble began was

614
00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 5: not going and looking for marijuana and you know, drink

615
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 5: in a flask of wild turkey or you know, trying

616
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 5: shrooms in college like that his addiction. His like his

617
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 5: story and the hell that he went through started legally

618
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 5: with his doctor giving him pain medication oxy codone, that

619
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 5: at the time was being prescribed like fucking candy out

620
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 5: of these doctor's offices because it was being pushed so

621
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 5: hard by the pharmaceutical industry. This guy didn't get addicted

622
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 5: because like he went down the wrong path and like

623
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 5: met up with the wrong people. He got addicted because

624
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 5: his doctor, who you should trust, who you're taught to trust,

625
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 5: gave him some of the most addictive drugs that have

626
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 5: ever existed in the history of the planet.

627
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: And he is perhaps one of one of the people

628
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 1: who is aligned with addiction because I think he remember

629
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: him saying, I fucking loved it. Assume as you know,

630
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,960
Speaker 1: this feels great, right, Like I just I'll take all

631
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 1: of this, yeah, you know, And that's some I think

632
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 1: some people are just it affects them in a certain

633
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:15,799
Speaker 1: way and they're sensitive to it and more prone to

634
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: addiction than others. I don't know if that's true for him,

635
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: but it sounded like that might have been the case.

636
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 5: That's absolutely a part of it, but yeah, I think so.

637
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 5: There was something very striking about the fact that he

638
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 5: was like, yeah, I was, you know, I was. There's

639
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 5: a lot that's on me, but like I was also

640
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 5: a victim of this epidemic, and you know, it was

641
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 5: getting hooked on that stuff and then finding it everywhere,

642
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 5: and then you know, making the switch over to heroin.

643
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 5: He says, you know, when I switched over to Heroin,

644
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 5: it was an economic decision. It was just cheaper. Yeah,

645
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,879
Speaker 5: And I don't know, man, I mean, like, having been

646
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 5: in the throes of all of that, you can want

647
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 5: so badly to chase the next high, even while knowing

648
00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 5: that like this is eating you up and destroying your life.

649
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 5: There was a there was a time in my life that,

650
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 5: like him, it was like, you know, I don't know

651
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 5: what's going to happen in my life, but I know

652
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 5: what's going to kill me. And it's this thing that

653
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 5: I'm doing.

654
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I hear of these stories of people who

655
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: have just hit rock bottom and and yet they're not.

656
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: You know, we have this this narrative, sort of myth,

657
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 1: urban legend, sort of image running in our mind that

658
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: these folks are different than us, that they are somehow

659
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,359
Speaker 1: more delinquent or more or somehow less human or something.

660
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,080
Speaker 1: Because we have this image that's not a real image.

661
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: Then you meet the real people and they're just like us,

662
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,799
Speaker 1: and they have He was you know, Scott was not

663
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 1: aware even though his head was shaved and he was

664
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: beat up with a black eye and he had lost,

665
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: you know, some massive percent of his body weight, and

666
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 1: he was basically this you know, he just he had

667
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: a stroke, shell of you and he had had a stroke,

668
00:39:57,680 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: and he was with the shell of a human being.

669
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 4: He's still was had.

670
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:04,919
Speaker 1: He still was going, you know, but it's okay, I'm

671
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: gonna you know, he still had this sort of thought

672
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:09,359
Speaker 1: of going he's gonna get out of it, or it's

673
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: like it's you know, he'll move past this, or he

674
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: was he couldn't see how bad off.

675
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 5: He was, right, Yeah, when when you're that deep in you,

676
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 5: I think you have a recognition that something is really

677
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,400
Speaker 5: wrong and that you need to stop this thing. But

678
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 5: the part of your brain that wants the next like

679
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 5: fix the next hit is like is like, yeah, but

680
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 5: it's not that bad.

681
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 1: And he talks about phones too at some points because

682
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: people forget about the phone's and I think, and I

683
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: tell my kids this too, Like I tell them, I'm

684
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,600
Speaker 1: like the screen time you're getting At first it's dopamine hit,

685
00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:49,239
Speaker 1: dopamine hit, dopamine hit, and that that makes you feel good.

686
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 1: But then it gets to the point where just to

687
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: feel normal you have.

688
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 4: To have it. And that's just phones. Yeah.

689
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: You know, imagine him like he's it's he's not getting high,

690
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,600
Speaker 1: he's just doing it so he's not sick, right, Yeah.

691
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 4: And I have had points in my life where, you.

692
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: Know, I haven't had anywhere near that level of disparity

693
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: or gone to that point of like being arrested and

694
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,840
Speaker 1: having to you know, go through with draws and a

695
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 1: shitty jail.

696
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:17,040
Speaker 4: Cell.

697
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: I haven't experienced that myself, but I have gotten points

698
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: where I've been able to look back and go, wow,

699
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 1: I was really doing a lot of adderall and you know,

700
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,359
Speaker 1: excessive adderall and alcohol and xanax and all these things

701
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 1: that are readily available and just sort of a part

702
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 1: of continued normal existence in America, and only later looked

703
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: back and went, wow, I was really deep into that shit. Yeah,

704
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: you know, I was completely functional, highly functional. Yeah, Scott says,

705
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: if I seemed normal for the outside world, it wasn't

706
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: for anything I was doing that was actually normal. It

707
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,399
Speaker 1: was because my emotional sort of ups and downs were

708
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,360
Speaker 1: regulated by the drugs I was taking.

709
00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 6: Right around the time Philip Seymour Hoffmann died, there was

710
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,080
Speaker 6: a huge snowstorm in Atlanta, and my daughter and I

711
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 6: would walk down to the local store and to reward ourselves,

712
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 6: we would buy a pint of Ben and Jerry's ice

713
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 6: cream and we'd go back to the house and eat it.

714
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 6: And people thought I was joking, because I was like,

715
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,640
Speaker 6: I can totally get why he was so obsessed with

716
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 6: heroin because I had that same I could not think

717
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,320
Speaker 6: of anything but getting more of that ice cream. And

718
00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 6: people thought it was a joke, And I'm like, this

719
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,279
Speaker 6: is no I mean, and something as innocuous and controllable

720
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 6: as ice cream can have that kind of control over you.

721
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 1: Like, actually, sugar's just as addictive as cigarettes, period.

722
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: I mean it literally, Like I'm not kidding.

723
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 5: When I quit drinking, I switched. I mean like for months,

724
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 5: I switched to sugar. Like I was just I gained.

725
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 5: All these people lose weight from from quitting drinking, and

726
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 5: I did. I did lose weight initially, and it came

727
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 5: back and was more. It was just like okay, so yeah,

728
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,520
Speaker 5: now I've I've been detoxing off of like that kind

729
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 5: of stuff too. I do eat a lot of watermelon.

730
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 4: There's a whole.

731
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: Food for you that's, you know, full of fiber and yummy, yummy.

732
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 6: I remember as a kid, they showed us these scared

733
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 6: straight movies, you know, and and they would talk about

734
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 6: like the Acid Trip, and they'd be like, I was

735
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 6: sitting in my room and my posters came alive and

736
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,439
Speaker 6: started walking around the room, and I was like, man,

737
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 6: that actually sounds kind of.

738
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 5: Cool that but I'm not supposed to use.

739
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 6: But the teacher said, if you have an addicted personality,

740
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 6: you should stay away from this stuff. You know, this

741
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 6: is like second grade or third grade. And I was like, yeah,

742
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 6: you know, I'm obsessed with Eminem's. That's what I thought.

743
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 6: I'm obsessed with Eminem's. So I steered clear of that stuff.

744
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 6: And listening to your story, Nick, and listening to Scott's story,

745
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 6: I just kept thinking, thank god I didn't have that

746
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,239
Speaker 6: albatross hanging around my neck, because that would be a

747
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 6: huge fucking alligator to wrestle to the ground man, And

748
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 6: hats off to anybody who has fought that battle. And

749
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 6: I think Scott shows how.

750
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:04,319
Speaker 5: Hard it is.

751
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 4: It is, and it's hard it is.

752
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: I will admit it's hard for me to relate to

753
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: how somebody could be in that situation and not know

754
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: that they're in that situation. How somebody could have a

755
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: stroke in a bathtub and not go whoa wait a minute,

756
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 1: you know, it's but.

757
00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 6: How somebody could lay in a bathtub for six to

758
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 6: twelve hours out when you're.

759
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: In it, yeah, yeah, But when you're in it, you're

760
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 1: in it. And the one thing that at the end

761
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 1: he you know again, this is reflected across a lot

762
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: of these stories. But the thing that I think ultimately

763
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,840
Speaker 1: happens to get out of the situation or to survive

764
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: whatever the experience is, whether it's a slow drip death

765
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: that's slowly killing you and poisoning you due to addiction

766
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: or whether it's a car wreck. The way that the

767
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,480
Speaker 1: way back to some sense of of of a life,

768
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: the way to be alive again, I guess just go

769
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: there is to He said to remove my ego, to

770
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: move myself from the situation, and he talks about that

771
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,040
Speaker 1: and he says good things come from surrendering. That's when

772
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: the good things in my life have happened is when

773
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 1: I surrender, when I got out of my own way,

774
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: when it wasn't about me. When I just surrendered and

775
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 1: he says to be of service to others or to

776
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: the process itself, that's.

777
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 4: When good things happen.

778
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: And it just reminded me of like the greatest tool

779
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 1: that any of us have isn't so much about control.

780
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: It's about surrendering, you know, It's about surrendering to the

781
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:39,560
Speaker 1: process or or you know, to just be of service

782
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: to others. Is like the one of the compassion again,

783
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,920
Speaker 1: is one of the greatest tools we have for survival

784
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: or for self resilience or for you know, for well.

785
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 5: And that's why the serenity prayer is so central to

786
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 5: the twelve step programs. You know, God give me, God

787
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 5: grant me the serenity to accept the things I can

788
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 5: cannot change, the courage to change the things I can.

789
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: And the wisdom to know the different difference.

790
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's I mean, that's absolutely central to it, because

791
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 5: I think so much of addiction is this, I think

792
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 5: maybe false sense of control over ourselves.

793
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:19,480
Speaker 7: You know.

794
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 5: I mean when I was when I was drinking to

795
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:29,399
Speaker 5: blackout every night every night. It started with me trying

796
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 5: to regulate my emotions. I was so stressed out by

797
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 5: the day that I needed the alcohol to regulate that emotion,

798
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 5: and it just disregulated me worse, and it became just

799
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,239
Speaker 5: like this absolute spiral.

800
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: I've heard therapists talk about how you can't like you

801
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: can't begin to deal with trauma until you stop drinking, right,

802
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 1: you know, you just it's just not possible first. You

803
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:54,759
Speaker 1: have to get that out of the way before you

804
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: can even think about about And I remember I was like,

805
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,239
Speaker 1: it's different. But I used to paint house and I

806
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:02,240
Speaker 1: would come home and just the fumes from the paint

807
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: like good, already to be high. And so me and

808
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: my friends we would, you know, Charlotte, North Carolina. We

809
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:10,719
Speaker 1: would drink a shitload just to feel normal again after

810
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: painting with fumes all day long. And and we got

811
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 1: to where we'd do that all summer, and by the

812
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,839
Speaker 1: end of the we were just drunks. We were just drunk.

813
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:19,359
Speaker 1: And then it got where we were drinking on site

814
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: and we were just you know. And then at some point,

815
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: I remember I shifted and I was like, I got it.

816
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:25,960
Speaker 1: I can't do this anymore. I got to get the

817
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 1: fuck out of this situation because I'm just a drunk.

818
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm just painting all day, and I've got hives all

819
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: over my body. I've gained all this weight. And so

820
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,880
Speaker 1: I went into another addiction. I started jogging seven miles

821
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: a day, twelve on weekends, you know, and I would

822
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: get done with a full day of work and I

823
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: would go run seven miles just to get my brain

824
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,480
Speaker 1: back after all the paint fumes.

825
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 4: So there's all.

826
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: These forms of addiction, phones and exercise, and you know.

827
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, but exercise is a probably a pretty good one.

828
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:55,959
Speaker 5: I mean, you could definitely over you can do that. Yeah,

829
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 5: I mean I was, but yeah, I get it with

830
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 5: the running. Uh you know, listen, I I didn't. I

831
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 5: was unable to quit drinking for years and years after this,

832
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,839
Speaker 5: like low point. It still took me. It still took

833
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 5: me eight years, seven eight years to quit drinking after that.

834
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: It was my eggnog that I gave you that did.

835
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,120
Speaker 5: That was well. I mean at that point, I knew

836
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 5: I was going to be taking I knew I was

837
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 5: going to be taking at least like a dry January.

838
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 5: But but yeah, I think like even.

839
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: I made I may make some some family recipe eggnog.

840
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:36,279
Speaker 5: Oh, and I made you that I made you.

841
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 4: And I think that was some of the last which

842
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 4: it was, and I.

843
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 5: Gave didn't I give you the Oh my god, I

844
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 5: can't remember the name of it now, but it was

845
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 5: the cocaine like the sort of coconut ncoction with the

846
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 5: reasons in it that ship was delicious but just too sweet. Yeah,

847
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 5: but yeah, no, your eggnog. Actually, there's a there's a

848
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 5: picture you took of me and I'm wearing a shirt

849
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 5: that's just too small and I'm holding that thing and

850
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 5: I'm like making some fucking face and it was that

851
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 5: picture was definitely a motivating factor. Definitely not anywhere close

852
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 5: to the but it was a motivating factor in making

853
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 5: me go like, maybe this needs to be longer than

854
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:26,239
Speaker 5: a dry January. Honestly, by the time that I did

855
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 5: quit drinking, the real trigger was was I had a kid,

856
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 5: and so my drinking got cut down a tremendous amount.

857
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 5: So I was no longer getting drunk anymore, but I

858
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 5: was still drinking every single night, like two or three

859
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 5: a night, and I was just I felt toxic.

860
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 1: I quit drinking. Mostly ninety percent of my drinking is

861
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,480
Speaker 1: I don't do anymore because I noticed that I'm just

862
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: tired around my kids. My kids are like, read to me, wrestle,

863
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: let's do something. Let's and I was like, I was

864
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,120
Speaker 1: going to point. I was like, you know what, I'm

865
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:00,279
Speaker 1: just too tired. I just feel I just want to

866
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: enjoy this beer and watching TV, you know.

867
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:03,759
Speaker 4: And I was like, what, that's not me.

868
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: I have children who want nothing more than to interact

869
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,319
Speaker 1: and and they're watching every move I make same reason.

870
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: I put my fucking cell phone down these days when

871
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:15,640
Speaker 1: they come around the corner. I'm like, nope, I'm with them.

872
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,840
Speaker 1: Cell phone's off at five kids are home, you know,

873
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 1: and it's hard to do.

874
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 4: It's hard. Yeah, I want to go check my phone.

875
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 4: I want to see if there's any more messages.

876
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: I'm working on multiple projects and it's just but it's

877
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:31,759
Speaker 1: all bullshit and nobody's there's not going to be an emergency.

878
00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: It's there's not going to be any any Like I'm

879
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: not going to get a call from some network.

880
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 4: It's like, we're going to make your TV show now. Dan,

881
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 4: let's you know, Yeah, we.

882
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 6: Need you to respond in the next twelve minutes.

883
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 5: Right, otherwise it's over otherwise it's over. We're going to

884
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 5: move on to the next guy. We just got a list.

885
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 4: You missed it.

886
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 5: But no, I mean, I totally that's a thing though.

887
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 5: It's like we life is. Life is kind of difficult

888
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:04,960
Speaker 5: and frequently really really boring. Nobody really gets into how

889
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 5: boring adulthood is gonna be. It's just tedious to the extreme.

890
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,280
Speaker 5: So if you already have, if you if you're already

891
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:15,240
Speaker 5: like living this in this reality that we all share,

892
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:19,439
Speaker 5: and uh, if you find something that helps like kind

893
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,839
Speaker 5: of smooth over the rough edges, whether that be your

894
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 5: phone which takes away boredom in a way, or alcohol

895
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 5: or opioids that just make you feel great, it's like

896
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 5: who you have that who wants to experience reality unfiltered

897
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 5: without any like gauze over it?

898
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:38,840
Speaker 7: You know?

899
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 5: I mean I think that that there's a part of

900
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 5: us that feels that way, that wants that, that needs

901
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:47,680
Speaker 5: the constant little dopamine hits constantly because that means we

902
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 5: don't actually have to like deal with existing full time.

903
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: At it becomes normal, like it what was a decamine?

904
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,360
Speaker 1: It now you have to have just to feel normal, right.

905
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 6: But we've taken to like you know, just not letting

906
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,439
Speaker 6: the girls get on their iPads, not letting them watch

907
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 6: the TV, which we limited how much they could do anyway.

908
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 6: And I'm like, you guys are just gonna have to

909
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 6: be bored for a while like we were. And they

910
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 6: turn that into creative energy. They'll start a creative project,

911
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 6: or they'll you know, one daughter's kind of into fitness,

912
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 6: so she'll do like a little workout, and the other

913
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:22,719
Speaker 6: one I'll start creating something, you know.

914
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think.

915
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 6: If you remove that ticket out of your boredom or

916
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,680
Speaker 6: that ticket out of your uncertainty, and it forces you

917
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:51,520
Speaker 6: to just kind of find a way to fill that

918
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 6: with something positive, as Scott did with his business. I mean,

919
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 6: it's remarkable from one train wreck to another. And he

920
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 6: ends this story and he starts a plumbing business and

921
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 6: he's doing really well with it. Now he's got thirty employees,

922
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,640
Speaker 6: and I'm like, did not see that company?

923
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 7: Right?

924
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 1: We had a situation the summer where the kids were

925
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 1: getting more and more into it was like summertime, they

926
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:18,399
Speaker 1: can watch TV, they could play Fortnite, and they got

927
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:20,520
Speaker 1: to where they were just so addicted to it and

928
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: just doing it constantly. And then it was going to

929
00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: be a thing. But I had to kind of take

930
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: them through this withdrawal. So I took away all the

931
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: phones and stuff. And at first, of course, they lost

932
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: their minds and they were like whining and crying and

933
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: trying to just grab food and snacks. And day two

934
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 1: they did a fashion show, they wrote, they made a

935
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,600
Speaker 1: comic book, they designed and built their own lego. Like

936
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 1: they did all this stuff in one day, and I'm like,

937
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,720
Speaker 1: Jesus should just get rid of the TV's entirely right.

938
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 6: Well, A friend of mine in college used to say,

939
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 6: the reason Da Vinci was able to be such an

940
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:52,160
Speaker 6: accomplished artist is because he didn't have a TV. He's

941
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:54,440
Speaker 6: he's gonna go carve something out of marble because there

942
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:55,399
Speaker 6: was nothing else to do.

943
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:56,919
Speaker 3: Boredom is today.

944
00:53:57,120 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 5: I think that they've done studies. It's like we about

945
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,879
Speaker 5: like nobody, Yeah, nobody daydreams anymore. It's I mean, it's

946
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:08,840
Speaker 5: and that's I mean, that's a it's a huge problem.

947
00:54:08,920 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 5: You know, back in the day, you went to the bank,

948
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 5: you had to like stand in line, and you just

949
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 5: had to stand there. There was nothing you had to

950
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 5: be with, You had to be with yourself. Yeah, you

951
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 5: had to be with your stupid brain. You know, that's

952
00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 5: why I actually really enjoy long car rides now, is

953
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 5: because you know, when I'm when I have to drive

954
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 5: a long distance, you can't like I'll listen to music.

955
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 5: I might, I might listen to a podcast or something.

956
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 4: But sometimes I.

957
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 6: Know a good, good podcast you could listen to. It's

958
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 6: called a Live Again.

959
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 5: And you know what every land stories. But the commentary

960
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 5: isn't sufferable.

961
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,320
Speaker 6: Hey, dear listener, I cut as much of this commentary

962
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,319
Speaker 6: out as I can when I'm editing these, just so

963
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,399
Speaker 6: you know, Oh, I'm helping you.

964
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:53,080
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, you don't. You don't want to hear the whole.

965
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,520
Speaker 5: You don't want to hear what you think about it.

966
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 6: I do think it's important for people to put their

967
00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 6: devices down and get away from being entertained all the time,

968
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,600
Speaker 6: except for if they have an opportunity to lift until

969
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 6: Live Again, right, they really should because they'll gain something

970
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 6: from it. But otherwise, yeah, throw these devices.

971
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, after you're done listening to this episode.

972
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 6: No, after the series sign up for next year.

973
00:55:13,280 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 5: No, I mean I found that, you know, the best

974
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 5: writing that I get done is not when I'm sitting

975
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,480
Speaker 5: in front of my computer. It's when I'm driving. It's

976
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,320
Speaker 5: when I'm just like stuck in traffic and I can't

977
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 5: you know, I can't really like have my phone in

978
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,799
Speaker 5: my hand. I'm just forced to think. Yeah, I mean,

979
00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 5: I guess if there's anything I can if I really

980
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 5: want to impart anything else, it's that there's help out

981
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 5: there if you are struggling with addiction. Uh, there's there

982
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 5: is help out there. There are phone numbers, there are

983
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 5: there are meetings you can go to there if you're

984
00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 5: not into twelve step programs. I am not into twelve

985
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,360
Speaker 5: step programs. I'm just not. But they're incredibly helpful for

986
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,279
Speaker 5: some people. But there's things that are not twelve step programs,

987
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:10,720
Speaker 5: and I will give them to you Dan to add

988
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 5: at the end of this. But you know, take the

989
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 5: first step and get the help you need.

990
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:21,520
Speaker 1: Next week, on a light again, we sit down with

991
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: doctor Eben Alexander, a Harvard neurosurgeon whose near death experience

992
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: turned his understanding of consciousness and the brain completely upside down.

993
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 1: What he wants dismissed as impossible, he now believes is

994
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,040
Speaker 1: at the very heart of our existence. That consciousness does

995
00:56:37,080 --> 00:56:41,240
Speaker 1: not arise from the brain, but is beyond universal, shared

996
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: and rooted in love.

997
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:47,600
Speaker 7: We've taken huge steps backwards in the last few years

998
00:56:47,719 --> 00:56:51,080
Speaker 7: with warfare and with violence, and with disregarding the rights

999
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 7: of human beings. It's time to reverse every bit of

1000
00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,919
Speaker 7: that and start acknowledging this much deeper lesson that's coming

1001
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,359
Speaker 7: to the fore about the nature of our existence and

1002
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 7: how we're really all in this together. And to hurt

1003
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 7: another is to hurt one's self.

1004
00:57:04,640 --> 00:57:08,120
Speaker 1: It's a conversation about science, spirit and the paradigm shift

1005
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,240
Speaker 1: that might just change everything you thought you knew about reality.

1006
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: That's next week, I'm Alive Again. Our story producers are

1007
00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 1: Dan Bush, Kate Sweeney, Brent Die, Nicholas Dukoski, and Lauren Vogelbaum.

1008
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: Music by Ben Lovett, Additional music by Alexander Rodriguez. Our

1009
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,520
Speaker 1: executive producers are Matthew Frederick and Trevor Young. Special thanks

1010
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,760
Speaker 1: to Alexander Williams for additional production supporting. Our studio engineers

1011
00:57:34,760 --> 00:57:38,440
Speaker 1: are Rima El Kali and Nomes Griffin. Today's episode was

1012
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: edited by Mike w Anderson, mixing by Ben Lovett and

1013
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: Alexander Rodriguez.

1014
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 4: I'm your host Dan Bush.

1015
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Scott Jenkins for sharing his story Alive

1016
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,040
Speaker 1: Again as a production of Ieart Radio and Psychopia Pictures.

1017
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,479
Speaker 1: If you have a transformative near death experience to share,

1018
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear your story. Please email us at

1019
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: a Live Again Project at gmail dot com. That's a

1020
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 1: l i v e A g A I N p

1021
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: R O j e c T at gmail dot com.