1 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: I think I spent so much of my life and 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: even as we're talking about me as a teenager, like 3 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about how much I thought, like, wow, I'm 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: so messed up. There must be so many things wrong 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: with me. And I look back and I'm like, that 6 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,760 Speaker 1: is not true. Like there were a lot of behaviors 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 1: that I was doing that you know, probably we're not 8 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: the most healthy. Definitely weren't the most healthy. But I 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: really look at that now and see that more as 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: a sign of resiliency. Hi, y'all, welcome back to another 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: episode of You Need Therapy. One, Thank you as always Alex. 12 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: You know the drill intra music. We love it. You 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: can follow him at at booth Tunes on Instagram. You 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: are awesome and remember for how much we love you. 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: And Two, I was so grateful And all I can 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 1: really say is wow to all the awesome feedback that 17 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: we got from last week's episode. If you haven't listened 18 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: to it, stop what you're doing right now, Go do 19 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: that first. You know that I think this, but I 20 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: think we are all pretty tired of diet culture, whether 21 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: we admit it or not. In so the more we 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 1: can speak truth into that, the better. And that's what 23 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: we did in that episode. So go listen to that one, 24 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 1: then come back and listen to this one if you haven't. 25 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: So we are a couple of weeks into and I 26 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: don't know about you guys, but a lot of my 27 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: plans for the year and even just this month have 28 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: already shifted. I mean, that's even when it comes to 29 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: simple things like this podcast, in the direction it was 30 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 1: going and the people that I wanted on it. And 31 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: so I went to lunch with a friend on Monday 32 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: to talk about some of those changes and just my 33 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: feelings around them. And we did this over some kale 34 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: salads and swo potato fries from Burger Up if you know, 35 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, And well, the conversation kind of moved into 36 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: a deeper um level and we started talking about all 37 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: the similarities we were holding and we think that we 38 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: see people holding around um, how we go about relationships 39 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: and in in that how different we think we do 40 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: things even though it's really the same. And I'm going 41 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: to take you guys back to attachment real quick. I 42 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: have had so many of y'all call me, text me, 43 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: dm me. I've had real life conversations which truly truly 44 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: I've enjoyed, but obviously so we got I got you thinking, Kelly, 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and I got you thinking about your attachment styles and 46 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:49,640 Speaker 1: what that means for you. And what my friend and 47 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: I really became passionate about in our conversation was the 48 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 1: lie that is sweeping around about how different or how 49 00:02:57,440 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: messed up we are because of some of our behavior 50 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: hers and because we have deemed them as unhealthy or bad. 51 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: What I want y'all to know is that despite the 52 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: behaviors you engage in because of your attachment style, whether 53 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: we're avoiding or running towards something or somebody or whatever, 54 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 1: or maybe staying staying still, the end result that we're 55 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 1: all searching for is the same. We're all just trying 56 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: to feel better. And I can't really say that wanting 57 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 1: to feel better is a bad thing or a wrong thing, 58 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: or that means something is wrong with you. The fact 59 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: that you're trying to feel better, it means that there's 60 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 1: something right with you. So half way through this conversation, 61 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my gosh, wait, stop, this all 62 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: needs to be recorded and everyone needs to hear this, 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: and everybody needs to be in this conversation. And well, 64 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: so we couldn't exactly do that, but what we did 65 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: do is sit down and talk about it a couple 66 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 1: of days later. Um, and my friend actually offered to 67 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: spill some of her own guts and story in that. 68 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: So who is this friend? Well, some of you guys 69 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: already know her, and some of you all have just 70 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: probably heard me talk about her or tell stories about her, 71 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: and you might not know that that's even who I'm 72 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: talking about. But she's my office mate or my office wife. 73 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: We actually couldn't really decide what we call each other. 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: But um, her name is Megan Moyer and she's also 75 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 1: a therapist. You all are going to be obsessed with her. 76 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: She is like one of my top rex for therapy too. 77 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: I think I've sent like five of my friends to her. 78 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: I would go see her, but I get to get 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 1: all her insight for free on the daily. And in 80 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,280 Speaker 1: this episode, you're gonna hear Megan's story. So I'll save 81 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: all of that. But what I want you to enter 82 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: in this space with her knowing is how truly truly 83 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: real she is. I don't really have a better word 84 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: to describe her. I don't know that I've met someone 85 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: or that many people as open as she is to 86 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: actually tell you what she sees in you and at 87 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: the same time what she sees and feels around herself. 88 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: She's got a way of being honest without offering an 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: ounce of shame. And she's also like really really really fun. 90 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: So I really like here the bad as well. So 91 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 1: let's not drag this out any longer. Here is Nigan. Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, hello, hello. Um. 92 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: I have a really kind, nice, gracious person with me 93 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: in our office. Yeah. This is the first UM episode 94 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: I've done in a real therapy office and our office, 95 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,359 Speaker 1: and I would say, you know, comparatively to what it 96 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: normally is, I feel like it's relatively organized in here. Um. Well, 97 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: before we get into that, Megan is, um, my office wife. 98 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: Is that what what do we call it? Office wife, 99 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: office mate? Office family? Yeah, we're our own family. So 100 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: we're actually in our office. This is the first episode 101 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: I've actually recorded in a therapy office. Usually we're on 102 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: my couch, and it feels as though this would be 103 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: what it would be like for you to give me therapy, 104 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: because I'm in the therapy chair, except it's closer than 105 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: you would ever have it. Way closer. Brings me back 106 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: to one of our first arguments about how I needed 107 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: the chair to be way further away from my clients 108 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: than you did, and I needed it close because I 109 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: like to be able to touch them if I like yeah, 110 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: And I was just like Catherine, I can't breathe in 111 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: this spatial situation. U Um, So actually this is funny. 112 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: So Megan is somebody that I I can say this. 113 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 1: I refer a lot of my people in my life 114 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: to her. I just can't confirm her denies. But there 115 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 1: was one person in particular who she was seeing who 116 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: knows me in another aspect of life anyway, She said, um, 117 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: because I leave my ship around everywhere, like at my 118 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: house she does in his office at Psycho Bar. Myseulf 119 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: is literally everywhere. One of my friends joke that every 120 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: time I leave the house, I leave something for them, 121 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,280 Speaker 1: Like I'll leave like a jacket or like my purse 122 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: or like a scarf or something, and then I like, 123 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: I won't go back and get it. She said. She 124 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: asked you, um, what it was like to share an 125 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: office with me? I think because I wish I could 126 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: remember how she said it, because she brought my back 127 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: to me that I've left in a random spot. Do 128 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: you remember I'm talking about Do you know I'm talking about? 129 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: I don't ask what it was like to share an 130 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: office with me because I'm so messy, And you said 131 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: something like, because she does this, I'm willing to put 132 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: up with this. I don't know. I imagine it's with 133 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: something about how I love you so much, so I'm 134 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: willing to come in and erase the board and put 135 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: everything in order. But your disorder also gives me something 136 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: to organize, which helps me feel. Oh, you're welcome, more regulated, 137 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: So I think it works. Well, Okay, well I do 138 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: that purpose. Um, okay, anyway back to why we're here, 139 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: So before we get into anything, because obviously I know you, 140 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: just like I know everybody that comes. Um, these people 141 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: don't know you, and some of them I but most 142 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: of them don't. So you just gave like a little 143 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: intro like who are you? Are you from? What you 144 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: like to do? Anything that you think is cool? Sure? 145 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: So I am Megan, as we've already established, and let's see, 146 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: my full time job where I make money is being 147 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 1: a counselor and sharing an office with you, which is amazing. 148 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Do you call yourself a counselor? Or a therapist. Sometimes 149 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: I actually call myself a therapist. Just say that. A 150 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: lot of times. People then ask me if I'm a 151 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: physical therapist. Um, so I don't know. Technically, I'm a 152 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: licensed professional counselor, but I feel like therapist sounds a 153 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,240 Speaker 1: little bit more. Well, when I think of fancy, I 154 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: think of like helping solve ministrual problems. Yeah, I don't 155 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: know that therapy. Okay, this is my unbiased but I 156 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: think that like therapy. When I call myself a therapist, 157 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: I think it makes me sound more important. I agree, 158 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: But I think Layman's for the regular people of the world. 159 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 1: I don't know people A therapist for your head, Yes, 160 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 1: I am a therapist for your head. Officially, some people 161 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: might call it a psychotherapist. Yeah. That that's kind of 162 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: creeps me out sometimes people say that. So I don't 163 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: come to have that, But I guess that's what we are. Basically, 164 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: We're just trying to figure out what to call ourselves. 165 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: That's what I need a therapist to figure out. If 166 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: I am a therapist and I can't be that therapist anyway, 167 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: go on, you were a therapist, counselor psycho therapist, counselor psychotherapists. 168 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: Some people call me a life coach. As long as 169 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: you know that you've signed up for therapy, um, you 170 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: can call me whatever you want. UM. Some other things 171 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,280 Speaker 1: that I do because as you know, well, it's really 172 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: hard for people like us to have one job. People 173 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: like us, people that may be referred to as sevens 174 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: in angiogram, I would not. I don't really want to 175 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: box myself in like that. I just think people that 176 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: are fun and exciting. Yea yeah. Um. So I do 177 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: some speaking, UM, some counseling, some performance coaching, and dabble 178 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 1: probably in a lot of different things organizing and we'll 179 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: do more selling. I'm always looking for the next, the 180 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,440 Speaker 1: next thing to get excited about, really outside of work. 181 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: What are your like favorite things to do? Favorite things 182 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: to do? Go on walks and long walks, drink latte's, um, 183 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: try out my various new hobby I think right now. 184 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: I was googling this last night, but I'm like, I 185 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: think my newest hobby is going to be jiu jitsu. 186 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:38,719 Speaker 1: I don't want you to say too much on that 187 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: because we're going to get to that. But that doesn't 188 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: surprise anyone. But also I would never I'm not gonna 189 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: say I've never choose that, but yeah, I lead you 190 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: down that a couple. Actually, a lot of the male 191 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: clients I've worked with have done jiu jitsu and have 192 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 1: a lot of good things to say about it, and 193 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 1: so I think it's kind of speak sparked my interests 194 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: and then this with my sports background, and I'm sure 195 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: we'll get into more of that. But really playing sports 196 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: my whole life and that being such an identity but 197 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 1: such a source of pain and something I never really enjoyed. 198 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: I've really had to look outside the box to find 199 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: athletic and like active things to do that don't feel 200 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: painful to me. Um, So it's like fighting. I think 201 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot more to it than fighting. I'm just kidding. 202 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 1: We'll talk about that, Yeah, people will talk about that. 203 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,439 Speaker 1: So basically, I can't answer your one hobby thing because 204 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 1: I don't have specific hobbies. I switch every every now 205 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: and then. So yoga, jiu jitsu, black jack, not for money, 206 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: because you know I can become addicting anything. Cycling too, 207 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: there's just too much, too much staying in one spot 208 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: for me. Really, I don't know, just not my jace 209 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: off for everybody I would come for you though, aren't 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: really good? Amazing, best cycle instructor I've ever had, because 211 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: I haven't had many. Um, Okay, so one question I 212 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: ask everybody when they come is have you ever been 213 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: to therapy? So this is going to be an interesting question. 214 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 1: Have you ever been? Have I ever been? Not like 215 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: as a therapist, because obviously you come to work, but 216 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: have you ever gone for yourself? Yes? I love this question. 217 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: I tell people when they're looking for a therapist, if 218 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: you can only ask that therapist one question, Please ask 219 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: them if they've ever been to therapy. Never, because I 220 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: would not see somebody as a therapist who has not 221 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: been to therapy. One, they've never been willing to sit 222 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 1: in the seat you're about to sit in as the client. 223 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: And then too gosh, how do you sell a product 224 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: or how do you give a product that you've never experienced? Um? So, 225 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,400 Speaker 1: have ever been to therapy? How long do we have 226 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: for this? We're going to be all in this. This 227 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: question is going to like literally be the episode, the 228 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: whole episode. Um. The first time I went to therapy 229 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,840 Speaker 1: was when I was fourteen, and the first two therapists 230 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: I went to I didn't get out of the car 231 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: for like you didn't you just like skip? I just yes, wait, 232 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: so guess what what. I don't think we've ever talked 233 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 1: about this. Also, I'm just gonna slide this in now, 234 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: do you remember the first time I'm gonna pass this 235 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: question to go back for a question when we met, 236 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: because we talked about how we met. So, Megan and 237 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: I met at um working for a working at a place, 238 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: and I remember one of the first things you did 239 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: was you came in and we were at I was 240 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: terrified this day. It was like a big meeting with 241 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: everybody that worked there, and everybody seemed to know each 242 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: other and know each other really well, and I knew nobody. 243 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you came up to me or 244 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: somebody introduced me to you. Let's just say I came 245 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: up to you, okay, And I remember you being like 246 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: you worked at the ranch or something like that, and 247 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I did, and You're like I 248 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 1: really at that point you were like I want to 249 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: started over living and I was like okay, and you 250 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 1: were like, let's meet. And I will say, I don't 251 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: know if I've ever told you this, but like that 252 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: I was so grateful for you and that because I, 253 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: again I didn't know anybody, and I felt like everybody 254 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: was so close and I didn't know how to get 255 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: into that circle. And we went to Portland's Brew and 256 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: you we sat down and you told me like your 257 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: whole story, which was like really great, and I probably 258 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: told you part of my story too, I don't remember. 259 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,000 Speaker 1: But from then on I felt it was just overall 260 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: easier because I think a lot of times it takes 261 00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: like one person, it takes knowing one person to be 262 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: able to go into a room and talk to a 263 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: bunch of people. And then after that I never felt 264 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: I don't ever remember. After probably that time ever felt 265 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: like I was an outsider again, which would think in 266 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: that place is easy to do. Yeah, you're so welcome. 267 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that that's the story. I didn't even 268 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: remember that, but it does make me think about something 269 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: I try to be really intentional about, is everywhere that 270 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: I go to really introduce myself to one person who 271 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: just looks like they're on the outside, because I think 272 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: a lot of my life up until I went to 273 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: college and even here and there, outside of that, I 274 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:21,960 Speaker 1: just felt super lonely and I think the way I've 275 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 1: really tried to combat that is like, Okay, if I 276 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: feel this way, there's definitely other people that feel this way. 277 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: So who can I at least say hi to and 278 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: connect with? Yeah? That was I mean, that was great. 279 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: That was my first impression of you. Do you remember 280 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: that at all? I don't. I want to lie so bad, 281 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: but something about my insides, I get really excited about 282 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: meeting new people. Um. And I'm sure that I spotted 283 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: you and thought that girl looks like fun um and 284 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 1: I have to meet her. And I'm sure something in 285 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: there too was just wanting to connect with you. Um. 286 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 1: So you have no first impression of me. So that 287 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: says a lot that I want a lot. I want 288 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: a lot you can not feeling. But the reason I 289 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: stopped you in the beginning is because when I was 290 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: I probably was in middle school with sixth grade twelve, 291 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: I think I was in sixth grade. My family forced 292 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: me to go to therapy. And I'm not I won't 293 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: give any details of any of that today, but my 294 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 1: mom forced me by I mean, obviously she cared for me, 295 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: and you know I was the problem. So hopefully our 296 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: moms are having a lot of grace for themselves, and 297 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: they listened to my mom was a great mom. Mom, 298 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 1: you're a great mom. I love you so much. But 299 00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: I was acting out, and so obviously you're going to 300 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,800 Speaker 1: take the thing that's acting out and go try to 301 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: help it, not do that exactly. And she dragged me 302 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: to a therapist and we called her the lady. We 303 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: never even called her. I don't know what her name is. 304 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,679 Speaker 1: She was like, you're going to see the Lady, and 305 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: I remember I was so against it for multiple reasons. 306 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: But I have two memories of that. One was I 307 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,919 Speaker 1: was pissed, so I didn't ever want to go, but 308 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 1: I never really spoke to her, so I think I 309 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: probably only went like three times. I remember one time 310 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: just like being in the car with my arms crossing, 311 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: like I don't want to be here. And then the 312 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: next time I think, I remember that all my siblings 313 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: are in there at the same time, and all I 314 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:33,640 Speaker 1: was doing is that she gave me a dry race 315 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: board and I was just drawing, like the limited to 316 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: like simple flower. I had some pajamas. I remember drawing 317 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: that on the board. I wasn't see anything anyway, so 318 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: I know what it feels like to not want to 319 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: go to therapy. So when you started, you didn't even 320 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,159 Speaker 1: go into the office. No, the first couple of places 321 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: I remember not going, and then my mom. I remember 322 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,240 Speaker 1: my mom got my dad involved and said, then why 323 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: did you I got out of the car um I think, 324 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,159 Speaker 1: I think, I know, so I know A part of 325 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: me wanted to go to therapy because I deeply was suffering, 326 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,879 Speaker 1: and the other part of me just felt like something 327 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: was so so wrong with me and that only people 328 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: who were really messed up went to therapy. So even 329 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,880 Speaker 1: though a part of me wanted to go, the other 330 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: part of me I felt so bad and so much 331 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 1: shame about it that I didn't want to go. But 332 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: the original reason that I went to therapy is because 333 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: I was struggling with a lot of disordered eating. I'm 334 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: glad you said all that because I think what was 335 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: This was fifteen years ago, so things were different back then, 336 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 1: and I I want to say that's probably what it 337 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: was like generally. Ever, if you're going to therapy, there's 338 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: something seriously wrong with you, and if there's something seriously 339 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: wrong with you that's really bad, like yeah, which is 340 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: so messed up because as of a fourteen year old 341 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: or whatever I was. I was deeply, deeply hurting and 342 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: didn't have any idea of like really what was going 343 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,159 Speaker 1: on or how to make sense of anything, or how 344 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: to use my voice. And then on top of that, 345 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 1: the place where I could have gone for healing, I 346 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: felt so messed up for going there that when I 347 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: went there, I had to act like I didn't want 348 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: to be there, and so there was only a few 349 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:12,760 Speaker 1: you know, I did therapy for a little bit of 350 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: time until my parents allowed me to stop going. But 351 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: I remember it being this thing of like, oh, finally 352 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 1: I get to stop going, but desperately wishing that they 353 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: would make me go. Yeah, and I you know, I'll 354 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:27,920 Speaker 1: be real honest, I don't remember exactly what the first 355 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:30,320 Speaker 1: therapist I went to look like, but she wasn't nearly 356 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: as cool as us, and so I was like an 357 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 1: old lady. Yeah, I was with like an old lady 358 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 1: who I felt like was nothing like me. Um, and 359 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:44,719 Speaker 1: it just kind of compiled me feeling like, man, I 360 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: really am messed up. This weird house. It was in 361 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 1: her house that is totally old school, and so I 362 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,159 Speaker 1: do kind of think like, wow, if I would have 363 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 1: had somebody younger and more relatable, it could have been 364 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: a better experience. But also isn't really hard to do 365 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: work with teens anyway, so maybe not. Yeah, I don't 366 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, so okay, A couple of things In 367 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: that one, I want to know how you even knew 368 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 1: that you had disordered eating, like how you were aware 369 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: of that or if you were, what did somebody tell you? 370 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: In the other part, I want you to speak to 371 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 1: as a therapist for people listening in that part of 372 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: like how you're just how you figure out the right 373 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,959 Speaker 1: fit for you, because I have that same experience. If 374 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: this lady was old, like I didn't want to talk 375 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: to her. I didn't feel like she was cool, and 376 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 1: like when you're thirteen, you like I want to only 377 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: talk to cool people or whatever. And then my therapist 378 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 1: that I really really liked in grad school who really 379 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: helped me, she actually works in this office in this 380 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: in this building, which I saw her one time and 381 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: I acted like I was on the phone and turned 382 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: around because I ghosted her. She will never know how 383 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: much she helped me. And there are two things that 384 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: she said to me that I'll never forget that I 385 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,479 Speaker 1: tell my clients all the time. She'll never know how 386 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: much she helped me because I ghosted her and never 387 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: went back. But that actually helps me. When I have 388 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: clients to ghost me, I'm like, that doesn't mean they 389 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: actually don't like me, because that lady was great, but 390 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: she was like old. She was in her sixties and 391 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: like very motherly. But I at that point in my 392 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: life I needed that. But when I was little, I 393 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 1: wanted somebody cool. And right now my therapist is in 394 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,919 Speaker 1: her thirties and I relate to her a lot, and 395 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 1: I don't think I would want somebody older. It just 396 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: can you speak to like what you think is important 397 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 1: in finding the fit of a therapist? Yeah, something I 398 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: wish I would have known so much sooner. I'd say. 399 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 1: At this point in my life, Oh my gosh, I've 400 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: seen over just brillion one million therapists. Um. I mean 401 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: probably I've worked with my current therapists for probably five years, 402 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: but you know, in terms of just doing some of 403 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: my own other therapeutic work intensives, when I went to rehab, 404 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 1: all these different things. I mean, I've probably experienced somewhere 405 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 1: between twenty and thirty different therapists, And so what I 406 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,239 Speaker 1: wish I would have known earlier on my journey is 407 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: all therapists are not the same, which is almost funny 408 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 1: to say, because like, yeah, obviously, but I just didn't 409 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: realize that. And I think it can be so hard 410 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: because you're in pain and you're going to get help 411 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: and then to think about, oh, is this the right 412 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: person or is this the right fit? And so I 413 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: think some of it is just when you I think, 414 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,040 Speaker 1: if you can ask for a referral from one of 415 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: your friends, like, hey, do they go to therapy? Do 416 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: they know a therapist, Like that's going to be a 417 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: really good, great place to start. And then from there, 418 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: like when you go to your first session, do you 419 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: click with this person? Do you think they can help you? 420 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: Because if you're seeing somebody you don't think can help you, 421 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 1: that ain't gonna work. Right, Like we know one of 422 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: the greatest predictors for a therapeutic success is the client 423 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: therapist relationship, like do you like the person and do 424 00:22:57,640 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: you get along with the therapist and do you feel 425 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,240 Speaker 1: like there for you. So I look back at some 426 00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 1: of the therapists I had seen in my life and like, 427 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: God bless them for dealing with me. But also I 428 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: look at that, and I'm like, dang, you know, if 429 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: I would have known more, I maybe could have found 430 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 1: somebody that could have helped me more. But I also think, 431 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, the journey is the process. So the journey 432 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 1: is where the fun stuff is. And so I can 433 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,640 Speaker 1: look and say, like, I've had all these unique experiences 434 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: and like some people really helpful and some people weren't um, 435 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: but I definitely learned from all of them. Yeah, And 436 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: two things in that one that you as the client 437 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 1: have to be willing to create the relationship. But so 438 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: that's one part that we can't really do anything about. 439 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: And the other part is, yeah, like is this somebody 440 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: that I feel like I can like connect with? And 441 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: in that too, like somebody can help you for a 442 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 1: season and then you move on to somebody else, Like 443 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 1: I will run out of help when it comes to 444 00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: certain people, Like I had a conversation yesterday with somebody 445 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 1: like it sounds like you need to do this. I 446 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: don't do that, So I think, let's transition you to 447 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: this person and then you can come back. But it's 448 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: like there are also a different therapists for different seasons 449 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: of your life. Yeah, which makes you a really great 450 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: therapist that you're willing to tell the person, hey, why 451 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: don't you go try this? Like I'm not leaving you, 452 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: but somebody else could be more helpful. And so I 453 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: think some of it is also talking with your therapist 454 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: or talking with people, are thinking yourself because like I'm 455 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,360 Speaker 1: in a similar season of life. I transitioned a few 456 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: months ago with my own therapy to seeing a male therapist. 457 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:41,440 Speaker 1: I'm not seeing I'm oh, I have such a long 458 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: lasting relationship with Ashley, but yeah, I'm not seeing her 459 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: really anymore. I'm currently putting off our ending session, final session. Okay, 460 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: well let's pause because that she's probably gonna be a 461 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: lot of what you talk about too. Back to disordered eating, Yes, okay, 462 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: this is it is going to be a four part episode. 463 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: So okay, back to how did you know that? How 464 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 1: did you know you need to go to therapy? Other 465 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: than it says you knew something I didn't feel right, 466 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 1: but you said part of it was dis disordered eating? 467 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: Were you aware? Did somebody tell you I did not 468 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: know I had disordered eating, so I kind of learned 469 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: about it, and by disordered eating, that's my soft way 470 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: of actually saying I had a full blown eating disorder. 471 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: It's still easing myself and and negotiating with my own 472 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: shame within. Um. I've talked a lot about being in 473 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,359 Speaker 1: recovery from alcohol and that kind of thing, But the 474 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: eating stuff, UM, I don't know. For whatever reason, I 475 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: just haven't talked about it as much. It's okay, and UM, 476 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: I think it's really great that we're having a conversation 477 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 1: about it. But I remember in high school when I 478 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 1: finally went to therapy for an eating disorder. It really 479 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: was because I think some friends of mine had reached 480 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: out to the counselor at school, who then talked to 481 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 1: my mom. Um, So I actually learned I had an 482 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: eating disorder in a really roundabout way. I knew I 483 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: had always had like a really funky relationship with food. Um, 484 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: that a lot was based on you know, we learn 485 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 1: a lot about food from our families. And we'll just 486 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: preface something I always say to clients, but I'm now 487 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,680 Speaker 1: saying to myself is I love my parents. And if 488 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: my parents are like yours, they're human beings, so that 489 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: means they have gifts and they have limitations. Um. And 490 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: I think I've done a lot of work around that 491 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: to really be able to love them, appreciate them, and 492 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: accept that they're human. UM. And I hope my future children, 493 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: unborn children, can extend me the same grace because even 494 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: though I think I'm going to be a perfect parent, 495 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: I know that I'm not. UM. So, yeah, I learned. 496 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 1: I remember sitting in health class my freshman year and 497 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,320 Speaker 1: learning about eating disorders and being like, oh, wow, I 498 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: think this is what I have, which is so bizarre 499 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: to me to be thinking about that or to like 500 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 1: have that realization. Now wait, was it like a this 501 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: is what I have ship or like this is helpful 502 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,359 Speaker 1: because oh my gosh, I have this, this is a thing, 503 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: or is it like I'm cool I have this. I 504 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:14,120 Speaker 1: think it was like, oh, here's language or here's words 505 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: to describe what I'm doing. And I was believe me, 506 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: So I was making myself through up. So I think 507 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 1: it would be kind of obvious of like, hey, Megan, 508 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: something isn't really working here for you. But I think 509 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: that sometimes in the depths of what we have going on, 510 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 1: it's hard to see what we're doing um or or 511 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: to name it if you don't know. And so I 512 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: was doing a lot of things. I was restricting, I 513 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: was over exercising, and then eventually all of that led 514 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 1: to purging. But I think something about I remember reading 515 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: in the textbook and thinking like, oh, there's a name 516 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: for what I'm doing, and I'm probably not the only 517 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: one doing it or something in that realm, it's kind 518 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 1: of hard to even explain. Yeah, and I wonder for 519 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: you because you have it's like now you're having the 520 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 1: actual first hand experience of it. I was talking about 521 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,439 Speaker 1: this with a client today of like, it's hard to 522 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: understand things like heartbreak. It's hard to sit with somebody 523 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: and heartbreak if you don't understand what that feels like. 524 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:20,879 Speaker 1: So for you in in working with clients, the whole 525 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: idea of diagnosing people like that's very controversial of like, 526 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,399 Speaker 1: I don't want to label somebody or whatever. For a 527 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: lot of people, having that label isn't so much of 528 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: It's not like I'm labeling you with this, but it's like, hey, 529 00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: look there's a thing that they wrote a book about, right, 530 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: So that means one, there's not so much there's nothing 531 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: wrong with you. There'd be a lot of things wrong 532 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: with a lot of people. But because they wrote a 533 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,360 Speaker 1: book about this, and because we know what this is. 534 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: That means there's a way out of this. So I 535 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: have the experience of like a lot of diagnosis. They're scary, 536 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 1: and I think that it's like, oh, I don't want 537 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: to be in this box and this thing and people 538 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: are gonna label me differently. But at the same time, 539 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: it's almost like a big breath of like, oh my god, 540 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: So does that mean there's a road map out here? Right? 541 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: Like the initial thing can be really hard. I have 542 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: this happen a lot um. I don't know that we 543 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 1: have time to get into this in this episode, but 544 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: there's this thing called covert incest um and it's not 545 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: that complicated, but essentially it's when emotions go awry in 546 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: your family um. And it's really sometimes uncomfortable to tell 547 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: a client, or not uncomfortable, but it's sometimes like I 548 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: think to myself, I don't know how this person is 549 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: going to receive this. But there's this books I don'tly 550 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 1: seduce that. I recommend a lot that could be really 551 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: helpful in giving words to describing what you're talking about, 552 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 1: what you're experiencing. And even though people might have a 553 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,880 Speaker 1: reaction at the time to like the look on their face. 554 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes it's may be painful or hard to hear that 555 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,520 Speaker 1: Almost always when I recommend a book, or even if 556 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 1: it's an eating disorder, sexotic and or alcohol or depression, 557 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: whatever it is, it can be hard to hear the 558 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: label on it. But really, my hope is not that 559 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: you're labeled. My hope is like, hey, here's a word 560 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,400 Speaker 1: for this. How about you go get and here some resources, 561 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: um and so, really, yeah, I agree with you, Like 562 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: there is nothing I really firmly believe this, Like there 563 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: is nothing wrong with any inherently wrong with any human being. 564 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: You may have a lot of behaviors that are not 565 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: working like that I believe. But I think I spent 566 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: so much of my life and even as we're talking 567 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: about me as a teenager, like I'm thinking about how 568 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: much I thought like, wow, I'm so messed up. There 569 00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: must be so many things wrong with me. And I 570 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: look back and I'm like, that is not true. Like 571 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: there were a lot of behaviors that I was doing 572 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: that you know, probably we're not the most healthy, definitely 573 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 1: weren't the most healthy. But I really look at that 574 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: now and see that more as a sign of resiliency, 575 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: Like I had a lot of pain that I was 576 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: trying to make sense of, and I picked all these 577 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: different coping strategies to help myself and that was the 578 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: best I could do at the time. Um. And so 579 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 1: I have a lot of gratitude actually looking back for 580 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: my story and these different things that I used that 581 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: did cause a lot of pain, But in some ways, 582 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, these things probably cut me alive and 583 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: help me get resources that I needed, which is really crazy. 584 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: I remember the first time I was in college and 585 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,360 Speaker 1: a therapist told me that I should be really grateful 586 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,760 Speaker 1: for my eating disorder. And I was looked at her 587 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 1: and I wanted to be like, are you at being crazy? 588 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 1: Like this thing is controlling me um and causing me 589 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: misery and all this stuff, And she was like, I 590 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: think this thing helped you survive. Well, yes, and that's 591 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: what how I explain. That's how I've made sense for myself, 592 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: but also how I explain people who are struggling with that. 593 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: It's like, why did I have to pick this or 594 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: why does this have to be my thing? Like why 595 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: do I like, why did this happen to me? I'm like, 596 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: this actually might have happened for you in a sense, 597 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: of like you were really, really really struggling and the 598 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 1: pain was so intense, like thank god this is what 599 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: you picked, Like thanks, thank god that this was an 600 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 1: option for you, because yeah, in the moment, like an 601 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: eating disorder, yet you're not ever truly really happy in that, 602 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,280 Speaker 1: but it is helping like almost like silently like reduced 603 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 1: or cover or hide or distract whatever is going on 604 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: that is so big and so scary, and so you 605 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: don't have to it to me, it was a distraction. 606 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: I'm not able to deal with this right now. I 607 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 1: really am not. It's a survival mechanism. And like if 608 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: we look at attachment, which again another day, another episode 609 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: for another day, we have to do two point out 610 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: when we look at attachment, Like when I think about 611 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: it and I look back, I'm like, wow, alcohol or 612 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: eating like an eating disorder or any of these other addictions, 613 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: Like what a great thing to attach to. Now I'm 614 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,840 Speaker 1: not promoting these things, but you know what, compared to 615 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: sometimes like really volatile or like unpredictable human beings, when 616 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,160 Speaker 1: you look at an eating disorder, man, it's consistent. It's 617 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,479 Speaker 1: always there for you, Like you eat this, that you 618 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: have a relationship with this addiction, which in a lot 619 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,200 Speaker 1: of ways, even as destructive as it is, is a 620 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: lot safer sometimes than humans. Yeah, and so when we 621 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: can look at it like that, there's so much room 622 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,400 Speaker 1: for compassion. Began might be the person that makes me cry. 623 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: We're not even talking about my life, but that sentence, 624 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,320 Speaker 1: I might have you say it again. I like that 625 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: that eat the eating disorder, the one that you developed, 626 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,479 Speaker 1: the one that whoever is struggling with that developed, Like 627 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: that is consistent. And also you're in somewhat I struggle 628 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: saying this because the disorder ends up controlling you, but 629 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: you have the the idea when you're in it that 630 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: you have control of it. And that feels really safe 631 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: when a lot of other people, and if we're talking 632 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: about attachment and relationships, people are unpredictable, if they're if 633 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: I've learned, one thing is you never know. And so yeah, 634 00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: that I think for a lot of people, it's like, 635 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: thank God I have this thing because people are unsafe 636 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 1: and people can leave and people can come, and people 637 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: can do whatever. But I can go back to this 638 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 1: whenever I want. It's always going to be there. Yeah, 639 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: it reminds me. I tell this story a lot I 640 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 1: don't know if I want to say it's an African proverb, 641 00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: but who knows. Half the time, don't ever check the 642 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: sources of things that I mentioned because I don't know. 643 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 1: I'm not a researcher. Like, actually, my fiance is a 644 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: five on the Instagram, which is the researcher or whatever, 645 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: and I'm like, thank God for him, because I just 646 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: like makeup facts and statistics and I'm like, I think 647 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,879 Speaker 1: I heard this somewhere, but maybe I made it up. 648 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,640 Speaker 1: So now for the African proverb that may not be 649 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:42,400 Speaker 1: an African proverb. Um, there's a story about a woman 650 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: or man. It's been something we're talking to and then 651 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,319 Speaker 1: I changed the gender. And they are walking down the 652 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: side of a rushing river and the storm comes and 653 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 1: they fall in the river and in order to survive, 654 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: like the waters that are so tumultuous and could kill them, 655 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: they grab onto this log and the log saves are 656 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: life like. But then the storm's over and they're in 657 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: the still water and they can see the shore way 658 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: off in the distance, but they start trying to swim 659 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: there with holding onto this log that save their life, 660 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: Like this log carried them through this crazy river thing. 661 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: And they start trying to swim but the log, Like, 662 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: they can't swim to the shore with the log um, 663 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: And so they have to make this choice, like are 664 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,440 Speaker 1: they going to leave the log and try to swim 665 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: to the shore or it's just going to stay on 666 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,560 Speaker 1: the log forever. Yeah, But the thing is, if they 667 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,960 Speaker 1: don't have enough skills to swim to the shore, like, 668 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: they'll get halfway and die, right. So it's not until 669 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: the person believes in themselves and believes they have enough 670 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: strength that they can really let the log be and 671 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: swim to the shore. And so I tell people the 672 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:46,880 Speaker 1: same sort of thing when we're talking about any behavior 673 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 1: that they want to give up, Like this thing might 674 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: have really been good for you in a way that 675 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,839 Speaker 1: may also have caused a lot of harm, but you 676 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: may not need it anymore. But we may need to 677 00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: develop a lot of skills so that you can believe 678 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:02,399 Speaker 1: that you don't need it anymore. I'm going to use 679 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: that and this is gonna make me a better therapist. 680 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: I think. I just hope all the money I spent 681 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 1: on therapy can help other people. But there I think 682 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,799 Speaker 1: that it is like that I'm so visual and so 683 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: that's super helpful, And I think I tried to express 684 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: that to people a lot of times of like, yeah, 685 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: these behaviors have been so helpful to you, of course 686 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 1: that you kept doing them. Of course you don't want to, 687 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 1: but it's now hurting you. And just getting into the 688 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:33,239 Speaker 1: whole idea because I frame eating disorders um as just 689 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,920 Speaker 1: another kind of an addiction. And how I have I've 690 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 1: come to, like no to define addiction. It's not one sentence, 691 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: but one thing I always say, it's like, what happens 692 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: in addiction is it because it's a way to meet 693 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: a legitimate need of yours, like to survive, But now 694 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: it's happening in like illegitimate way, So it's not actually 695 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,080 Speaker 1: helping you survive anymore. It's holding you bath And so 696 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: as you move and you grow as a human, you 697 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: have to like move with that process. And some of us, 698 00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to do that. We've never had to 699 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 1: do that, we're too scared to do that. But addiction 700 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: is what happens when we are using those old solutions 701 00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: over and over they've stopped working, yet worth trying to 702 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 1: still make them work, and they're not, and now they're 703 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: just causing us pain and that's like the essence of 704 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: behavior modification. Like if there's anything I've done in my life, 705 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: it's trying to modify my own behavior. And it's like, oh, well, 706 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:25,799 Speaker 1: you know, if I just stopped throwing up, if I 707 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,040 Speaker 1: just stopped drinking, or if I just you know, relax more, 708 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: if I just did this, or I just did that, 709 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,400 Speaker 1: And it's like so much effort, and trust me, like 710 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 1: there are things that need to be stopped, like you know, 711 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: one day, which I'm sure we'll get into, but one 712 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: day I really did I needed to go to rehab, 713 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 1: and I needed to stop drinking and get some things 714 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 1: like under wraps so that I could actually move forward. 715 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: But what I've also found is like behavior modification is 716 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: really really really hard work. And if we can do 717 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,800 Speaker 1: some stuff from the inside, like and develop some skills, 718 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 1: developed some self love, self compassion, all these things all 719 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: of a sudden. If we go back to the metaphor, 720 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: you're not trying to swim with the log to the shore. 721 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I got this, like and you're not like, 722 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: oh no, if somebody rips this log away from me, 723 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to drown, which is sometimes what happens. Like 724 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 1: people come into therapy and they're like, I need you 725 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: to help me stop doing blank, or I need you 726 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: to help me stop throwing up, or I need you 727 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: to help me stop over exercising. And I'm like, wait 728 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: a second, I don't know that we want to do 729 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: that because you might drown. Yes, So before I rip 730 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: all this stuff away, we got to build something else. 731 00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: We've got to put some other stuff there, Like so 732 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:36,759 Speaker 1: you've got to get your life jacket. We've got to 733 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 1: get swim lessons, like we've got to get your raft, 734 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: like freaking boat with a motor. I don't know something yea, 735 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: and all that because I would like to know, because 736 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 1: we'll go backwards into this of some of your story 737 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: and we're definitely gonna talk about the rehab for you. 738 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: In that situation. I'm sure people are like, what what 739 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: she has? Normal people go to rehab? Yes they do. Um, 740 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: I want to know because this is might be a 741 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,439 Speaker 1: little like convoluted, and it definitely is for me, which 742 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: I think surprises a lot of people that, like I 743 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: went to become a therapist, Like in grad school, I'm 744 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,279 Speaker 1: like running twelve miles a day and then going to 745 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,640 Speaker 1: a hot kickboxing class and then eating baby carrots for lunch. 746 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: So it's like I didn't get my ship together and 747 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: then was like, I'm gonna go help people. I didn't 748 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,840 Speaker 1: realize I needed help until I was like, I'm gonna 749 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,279 Speaker 1: try to help people. So for you, how where did you? 750 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,240 Speaker 1: Because you also your your first degree was not college degree, 751 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,680 Speaker 1: was not in anything therapy world, So how did you 752 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 1: because you've started therapy at fourteen, so that was always 753 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: like a thing. Tell me what the process of you 754 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: realizing hey, this might be something I want to go become. Yeah, 755 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: so I wish it happened like that. It happened backward 756 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 1: of like I fell into it. Yeah, my undergraduate degree, 757 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: I used to be a professional student, but hopefully I 758 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,239 Speaker 1: put that on the UM, put that in retirement. But 759 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,359 Speaker 1: my first degree actually wasn't accounting and marketing and UM. 760 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: The way I chose that is basically got to college 761 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: and I was playing college golf and doing a lot 762 00:40:21,480 --> 00:40:23,799 Speaker 1: of things, and I had no idea who I was, 763 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,399 Speaker 1: what I wanted to do, and so I just thought, well, 764 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,480 Speaker 1: I want to be a woman who makes a lot 765 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,440 Speaker 1: of money and is powerful and successful in the business world, 766 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 1: and what's the best thing I can do? There and 767 00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,120 Speaker 1: I was accounting. Why were those things important to you? 768 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: Because I thought that would make me happy. Um, that 769 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: would create a life of meaning. Um I really yeah, 770 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,960 Speaker 1: being the best? Um, I think I spent so much 771 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: time feeling like I wasn't good enough. And obviously still 772 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 1: we also have those days. But I just thought, what's 773 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: going to make me feel good enough? And I was 774 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: like being at the top. And so I got my 775 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,280 Speaker 1: accounting and marketing degree, graduated in three years, and then um, 776 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:09,439 Speaker 1: still was playing graduating three years. Yeah, um, you really 777 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: were the best? Well, it was kind of. It wasn't 778 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 1: a fluid graduated in three years. I was playing golf, 779 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: so I kind of graduated. And then I started my 780 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,280 Speaker 1: master's degree while I was still playing golf at Kentucky. 781 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,760 Speaker 1: And so then I got a master's in sports leadership. 782 00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:23,839 Speaker 1: I guess I did graduate in four years. I think 783 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,920 Speaker 1: I only took like I was on like the twelve 784 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 1: hours a semester plan or something. Um, so I was 785 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: able to I kind of spread my classes out so 786 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:33,920 Speaker 1: I could, you know, be the best but also have 787 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: a lot of fun, because it's hard if you like 788 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: have too many classes and too much studying and too 789 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,960 Speaker 1: much traveling, so anyway, graduated and then I was I 790 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,360 Speaker 1: played a fifth year at Kentucky and UM got my 791 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: masters in Sports leadership for no reason other than I 792 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: was like, which program will let me get out of 793 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: here in one year? Because I didn't want to stay 794 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:58,640 Speaker 1: in school anymore. And so then after that I graduated. 795 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: What was painful school? Like? What led you to and 796 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:04,600 Speaker 1: maybe it's not. Maybe it wasn't painful. I just make 797 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:05,879 Speaker 1: that up in my head. But what made you want 798 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: to get out of there so fast? I think it 799 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,399 Speaker 1: was more so that was my fifth year. It wasn't 800 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,280 Speaker 1: so I actually didn't want to leave. I didn't like golf, 801 00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,280 Speaker 1: but Kentucky and playing golf at Kentucky and my coach 802 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: when I was there was really the first place that 803 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: I really began to thrive. Um. I tell people I 804 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: want every award for not being that great at golf. UM, 805 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: So I really made the most there. I felt really valued. 806 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:34,080 Speaker 1: I had. My college golf coach really was a mentor 807 00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,200 Speaker 1: to me, someone who really loved me for who I 808 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 1: was and helped me in a lot of ways. And 809 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:40,800 Speaker 1: it was really this place that I had a sense 810 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,760 Speaker 1: of belonging, probably for the first time in my life. 811 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,239 Speaker 1: So I didn't so much want to leave, except that 812 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: I had older friends who had been out of school 813 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,319 Speaker 1: for four years that I was like. I would talk 814 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:50,879 Speaker 1: to them on the phone, They'd be like, you're still 815 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,880 Speaker 1: in school, and I'm like, yeah, I'm still here. So 816 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,960 Speaker 1: I just wanted to get out and like live my life. 817 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: It sounds like, and if I'm making this up, let 818 00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 1: me know. It sounds like when you were in school 819 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: playing golf, you finally had that sense of belonging, the validation, 820 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: the affirmation that like a sense of love and care 821 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:14,960 Speaker 1: that you might have been trying to get your whole life. 822 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 1: In a sense. The interesting thing that you said is 823 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,239 Speaker 1: I didn't like golf. So is that just like one 824 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,439 Speaker 1: more log you're grabbing onto to try to get this thing, 825 00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: and this time it really works. So how does that 826 00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:30,479 Speaker 1: screw with your head? Yeah? It goes back to even 827 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,439 Speaker 1: like things are not good or bad, right, So it's 828 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:35,680 Speaker 1: so much of us, I think as humans want to 829 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: mark things as good or bad, and so much for 830 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,960 Speaker 1: me wants to be like, I hated golf, so that 831 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: was bad. And I think there was the part of 832 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,120 Speaker 1: me that was doing something I didn't like but the exchanges, 833 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,560 Speaker 1: I got this sense of belonging that I really did like. 834 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,359 Speaker 1: And so I did have that sense of belonging, which 835 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: was great. And then also there was still so many 836 00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:58,279 Speaker 1: addictive behaviors running through me. You know, I had one 837 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,360 Speaker 1: sense I looked really great on the outside I and 838 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,439 Speaker 1: I was really achieving, like at a high level, playing golf, 839 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: going to school, president of every thing you can imagine. 840 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,560 Speaker 1: And then, you know, I tell people that was my 841 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: day job, and then my night job was when I 842 00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: would go drink and have my various addictions, where I 843 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,279 Speaker 1: kind of coped with living a life that was really 844 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,720 Speaker 1: incongruent to who I was. You know, it wasn't until 845 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,680 Speaker 1: I remember sitting in treatment and there was a family 846 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 1: week and this therapist asked me to make a collage, 847 00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 1: and she wanted on this inner circle to be like 848 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 1: the parts of me that were like the true me, 849 00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 1: and then on the outer circle she wanted me to 850 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: show like who I was to the world. And I 851 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: remember making that collage and being like, holy shit, like 852 00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,680 Speaker 1: the true me doesn't look anything like this person that 853 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: the rest of the world sees. And I remember like 854 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 1: rolling that up and I was going to go present 855 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 1: it to my family, which family week with your Like, 856 00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 1: it's just hilarious. You could do a whole sitcom on 857 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: that family week and rehab um. And I remember feeling like, 858 00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,040 Speaker 1: I this might sound dramatic, but I was like, maybe 859 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: this is what it's like like if when a person 860 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,040 Speaker 1: tells their family that they're gay, or like when they 861 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 1: come out, because I felt like so much of me 862 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: was coming out of Like I came from this very 863 00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: athletic family, and I was like, I don't even like sports, 864 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: Like so much of my identity was around athletics, and 865 00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,760 Speaker 1: you don't like sports, but what did you like about sports? 866 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,000 Speaker 1: I like the belonging. So I was willing to do something. 867 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I was only three sports varsity athlete in 868 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 1: my school, Like I played golf in the SEC. Like 869 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: my life was sports, Like that's what I did. And 870 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,040 Speaker 1: I don't even like I mean, sports are fine, Like 871 00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:43,640 Speaker 1: I know a lot about them, but all the time 872 00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: people ask me like, oh, do you still play golf? 873 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, nope, when that time you played probably like 874 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: three years ago. You know, I coached while I was 875 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: getting a master's degree. But I also like have this 876 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,239 Speaker 1: hilarious thing that happens. I have gratitude almost every day 877 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: for not playing golf. If it's really nice outside, I 878 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: think to myself, I'm so happy I'm not playing golf 879 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,560 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah. If it's really cold outside, I'm like, 880 00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,480 Speaker 1: I'm so happy I'm not playing golf right now. And 881 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,720 Speaker 1: if I have to go do something that I'm like, oh, 882 00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:14,080 Speaker 1: like I gotta go do this thing and it's three hours, 883 00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my gosh, at least it's not six hours. 884 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:21,760 Speaker 1: Like I practiced every day for six hours. People don't realize, 885 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,799 Speaker 1: like how much goes into golf. I'm like, no, wonder 886 00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,479 Speaker 1: so many golfers are alcoholics. Like God, all that time 887 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,680 Speaker 1: with yourself and like trying to perfect something. Like oh 888 00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:32,920 Speaker 1: my gosh, So when you said you had that second 889 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,240 Speaker 1: job of like going in whatever, you were you aware 890 00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: at that time that you had a problem or is 891 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:40,399 Speaker 1: it just like I'm a college student, I'm having fun 892 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,759 Speaker 1: and like I deserve this. Oh yeah, I knew I 893 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:46,520 Speaker 1: had a problem. Um, I kind of knew, you know. 894 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:48,480 Speaker 1: I had the eating stuffing in high school and like 895 00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,000 Speaker 1: other just resouous happy. I was never really went away. Um, 896 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,480 Speaker 1: there were seasons where it got better they're like not better. 897 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,840 Speaker 1: But there were seasons where it got more manageable, and 898 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,760 Speaker 1: then there's seasons where it was really out of control. 899 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,040 Speaker 1: But it was always there. And early on in college 900 00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 1: I had this spiritual experience, will say, and I got 901 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:11,520 Speaker 1: really involved in the evangelical Christian world, and with that 902 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 1: I found a lot more belonging and a lot of 903 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 1: really really great friends. The other part of that is 904 00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: I really began I really began to believe all of 905 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:24,000 Speaker 1: my let's say, addictions were then sin. So then I 906 00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:27,040 Speaker 1: got into this whole thing of trying to solve like, 907 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:30,520 Speaker 1: bless my heart, I've tried everything, you know. Um. But 908 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,319 Speaker 1: then I really got into the saying of thinking like, oh, 909 00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: if I was just more Christian, or if I just 910 00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: prayed more, if I had more community, or if I 911 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:41,320 Speaker 1: love God more, like whatever, these things would go away. 912 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,239 Speaker 1: And now I tell people, I'm like, I didn't need 913 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,000 Speaker 1: more Jesus, like I need a rehab. Right. So, yeah, 914 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: they were still there. They got a lot more manageable, 915 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:52,359 Speaker 1: or maybe I learned how to hide them better and 916 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,000 Speaker 1: look better. But I was also talking to people in 917 00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,800 Speaker 1: my life about what was going on. Did anybody express 918 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,880 Speaker 1: concern for you. Yeah, I had great friends. I was 919 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:05,120 Speaker 1: seeing therapists, my coach was involved. Like, I definitely had people, 920 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: but it was kind of just like, here's these lingering 921 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,960 Speaker 1: things I wonder for you. Did you have an experience 922 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,640 Speaker 1: of I can't need to go to rehab. There's no 923 00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:17,359 Speaker 1: way I need to go to rehab because I know 924 00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:19,919 Speaker 1: the kind of people that go to rehab and that's 925 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,560 Speaker 1: not me. I never thought about rehab because I think 926 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:25,319 Speaker 1: I didn't even know people went or something like that. 927 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, like it's kind of crazy to 928 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,960 Speaker 1: do what I'm doing now and think about myself of like, oh, 929 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: how would I was just like dabbling and all these 930 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:38,239 Speaker 1: like various really harmful behaviors. But I think that says 931 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,360 Speaker 1: something about our society, you know, like so much of 932 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,160 Speaker 1: this stuff is normalized. And I um do a lot 933 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,120 Speaker 1: of speaking on college campuses, and so I'll hear a 934 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: lot of like, oh, you know, I'm drinking, but I'm 935 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,000 Speaker 1: not that bad, like, and I think what I come 936 00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: back with is, hey, like in this room. You know, 937 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,440 Speaker 1: if we look at statistics, one in four college students 938 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: already meet the definition for a substance juice disorder, which 939 00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: we would call alcoholism and then are one like criteria 940 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: away from that. So I tell people, I'm like, if 941 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,320 Speaker 1: you're looking at Catherine to see you know, oh, I 942 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:15,440 Speaker 1: don't drink as much as she does, that doesn't necessarily 943 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,279 Speaker 1: mean that you're okay. Well, also, because I don't think 944 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,719 Speaker 1: a lot of people know, is that addiction is progressive 945 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,439 Speaker 1: and so something that might be working for a little 946 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: bit of time if you're one criteria way, well that 947 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a little bit risky to like stay in. 948 00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:32,840 Speaker 1: But I think that's what makes us. For me, it 949 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,000 Speaker 1: was that can't be me because I don't want to 950 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:39,359 Speaker 1: for multiple reasons, that can't be me. But like, I 951 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: don't want that to be me. So I'm gonna find 952 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: all the evidence I can find for that not to 953 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,759 Speaker 1: be me, and I will. I want to tell this 954 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:48,759 Speaker 1: little story. So when I was in grad school, I 955 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,680 Speaker 1: went to I did my practical in my internship at 956 00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,680 Speaker 1: the place that I ended up working at for three 957 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: years when I graduated, wonderful place. UM loved it so much, 958 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: And but I was this, I think I was pretty sheltered. 959 00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: That's like little white sorority girl who is essentially engaging 960 00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:16,120 Speaker 1: in all of her disordered eating, eating disorder, exercise addiction behaviors. 961 00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: But I think I'm, you know, killing it. So I 962 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,719 Speaker 1: go into this treatment center and it was it's a 963 00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,800 Speaker 1: big treatment center and they serve everything and it's pretty 964 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:28,279 Speaker 1: acute and trauma focus. But I went in thinking like 965 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:30,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna become the series, gonna help all these people 966 00:50:30,560 --> 00:50:35,640 Speaker 1: and whatever. And they put me in the young Men's 967 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,839 Speaker 1: at the time, that was organized differently. Did I ever 968 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: tell you this? They put me in the young Men's House, 969 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,520 Speaker 1: and so most of the clients who are around my age. 970 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:52,440 Speaker 1: I remember going to the first group group therapy man 971 00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,360 Speaker 1: and being scared on your mind hair. I would tell 972 00:50:56,719 --> 00:50:59,480 Speaker 1: my I would tell my supervisor that I was sick, 973 00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,960 Speaker 1: and I would like leaf, I would like not go 974 00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 1: to group. I would find any way not to gro group. 975 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: But the first time I went, I because this is 976 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:08,919 Speaker 1: this is what I think is a problem, and I've 977 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:12,560 Speaker 1: became aware very quickly. But I walked into this place 978 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,640 Speaker 1: thinking that these people are different than me. I walked 979 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:17,759 Speaker 1: into this house thinking these people are different to me, 980 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,360 Speaker 1: almost as if they weren't human. And that's the experience 981 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:23,840 Speaker 1: that I have of like these people are there's something 982 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,799 Speaker 1: wrong with them or they're they're bad people. I don't 983 00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,240 Speaker 1: exactly know what it was, but I just remember feeling 984 00:51:29,719 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: very different than them. And I sat down in the 985 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,160 Speaker 1: first group, a client did his first step, which, for 986 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,640 Speaker 1: those of you that don't know that what that really entails, 987 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 1: it's really an inventory of everything that your addiction has 988 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,439 Speaker 1: caused you or you have caused other people. It's it's 989 00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: kind of to like shake you and wake you up 990 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,279 Speaker 1: and say like, hey, hey, this is a problem. But 991 00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:55,240 Speaker 1: I remember this one guy and he did his first step, 992 00:51:55,440 --> 00:51:58,560 Speaker 1: and I just remember my jaw dropping and my eyes wide. 993 00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: Part of it was because I was like, holy shit, 994 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: I've never heard stories like these, because I'm the shelter girl, 995 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,040 Speaker 1: and I'm having this experience of who do I think 996 00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 1: I am that I'm going to help these people? What 997 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,319 Speaker 1: that like? What the fuck kind of? And then the 998 00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,879 Speaker 1: other part it's like I feel even more disconnected from 999 00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:19,040 Speaker 1: these people, like oh my gosh whatever. So after I'm 1000 00:52:19,080 --> 00:52:21,160 Speaker 1: of course doing my own work through this, but I 1001 00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:25,839 Speaker 1: am just like these people. My actual behaviors, like I 1002 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,719 Speaker 1: never took stole my grandmother's wedding ring and pond it, 1003 00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:30,960 Speaker 1: but I did some shitty things. I lied to a 1004 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:32,840 Speaker 1: lot of people. I lied to myself, I lied to 1005 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,239 Speaker 1: my family, I lied to my friends. I skipped out 1006 00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,880 Speaker 1: on things, I missed on things. I wasn't nice all 1007 00:52:37,960 --> 00:52:40,120 Speaker 1: the time. Like I did a lot of stuff and 1008 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:43,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't the same exact behaviors. And no, I wasn't 1009 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,160 Speaker 1: using those drugs or doing that, or I wasn't homeless 1010 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,080 Speaker 1: and stealing ship, but I essentially should have been. And 1011 00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,640 Speaker 1: I met with this particular guy, which is really cool. 1012 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:59,080 Speaker 1: He ended up. He's great, he's sober, still great guy 1013 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:03,359 Speaker 1: of course. And um I met with him maybe three 1014 00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,640 Speaker 1: or four years after he had left because he started 1015 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,840 Speaker 1: working the treatment treatment world and we met for like coffee, 1016 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: for like marketing stuff, and he was the first time 1017 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,680 Speaker 1: we met, he was like I'll never forget your face. 1018 00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 1: Oh god. For one of the first things he said, 1019 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,040 Speaker 1: it was like, Hi, how are you And then he 1020 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:23,719 Speaker 1: was like, I'm I will never forget your face. The 1021 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,880 Speaker 1: first day you came to group and he was like 1022 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,800 Speaker 1: you were terrified, And I was like yeah, And that 1023 00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,600 Speaker 1: was the best thing that ever happened to me at 1024 00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:32,080 Speaker 1: that place. It was like a wake up of like 1025 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: you are this is all the same, like I am 1026 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,520 Speaker 1: all like I am like you, you are like me, Yeah, 1027 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: which is awesome. I'm so glad you're bringing that up 1028 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:42,920 Speaker 1: because I think if I had a mission in life 1029 00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,040 Speaker 1: like that would be one of them. Is like we 1030 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: are all so much more the same than we are different. 1031 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 1: And even now, as we're talking about different parts of 1032 00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,200 Speaker 1: my story, I'm thinking about, like, oh, no, who's listening 1033 00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,120 Speaker 1: to this and what are they going to think about me? 1034 00:53:56,239 --> 00:53:59,120 Speaker 1: And um, here's some parts of my story that maybe 1035 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 1: people know maybe they don't know, and um, I kind 1036 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: of have this awareness of this judgment. But as you're 1037 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,759 Speaker 1: even telling that story, I was thinking to myself, like, 1038 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,959 Speaker 1: I am so grateful for my story and what I've 1039 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:14,879 Speaker 1: been through because it genuinely allows me to sit with 1040 00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,400 Speaker 1: anybody and really see like, yeah, we're not that different, 1041 00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,520 Speaker 1: Like I maybe haven't done exactly what you've done, but 1042 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: I could do that, like, or I can see where 1043 00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,239 Speaker 1: maybe I'm the same, and so I hope, Like I 1044 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:29,319 Speaker 1: even tell people that come to therapy, and I tell 1045 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,440 Speaker 1: people in my life outside of here, like you are 1046 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:35,600 Speaker 1: not different than somebody sitting on my couch, Like, do 1047 00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,440 Speaker 1: not think for one second, like I work with people 1048 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:41,120 Speaker 1: who are messed up, and like, really, the different thing 1049 00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,400 Speaker 1: is is that these people are willing to do something 1050 00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,239 Speaker 1: about it. That's what I'm saying, Like, I'm like, I 1051 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,120 Speaker 1: work with some brave, asked people because you know, what 1052 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:50,120 Speaker 1: makes them different than the rest of the people that 1053 00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 1: are walking around hurting in the world. Is there actually 1054 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,520 Speaker 1: willing to do something about it. And so who's I 1055 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,080 Speaker 1: tell people, I'm like, who's crazier the person who gets 1056 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,120 Speaker 1: there arm blown off and just like walking around and 1057 00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:03,799 Speaker 1: it's like it's okay, Like it'll be okay, I'm gonna 1058 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,160 Speaker 1: tough it up. Meanwhile they're like bleeding out or the 1059 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,120 Speaker 1: one who goes to the hospital to like get the 1060 00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,279 Speaker 1: arms zone back on. And so I think that's how 1061 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,080 Speaker 1: I feel about therapy and think it that way. I'm like, duh, yeah, 1062 00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:18,600 Speaker 1: it's like people who go to therapy are not people 1063 00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,480 Speaker 1: who are like the most messed up in the world. 1064 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,920 Speaker 1: Like there are people who are actually trying to do 1065 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,240 Speaker 1: something different because they are willing to recognize their suffering 1066 00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,400 Speaker 1: and have some humility about it, or they got forced 1067 00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,839 Speaker 1: into it by going to treatment because of life circumstances, 1068 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,080 Speaker 1: but then they don't. But something like in between there, 1069 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, but like brave people are willing to go 1070 00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: to therapy, and so I appreciate that you're willing to 1071 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,280 Speaker 1: say that and to like, if we as a society 1072 00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:46,880 Speaker 1: stopped looking for like all these things that make us 1073 00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,719 Speaker 1: so different, like oh I'm this color, or oh I 1074 00:55:49,880 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: have this political affiliation or oh um, this religion or whatever. 1075 00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,800 Speaker 1: If we stopped looking at those things and started looking 1076 00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 1: for the similarities, I think the world would be like 1077 00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:03,560 Speaker 1: much more connected place. Like I'm sure you hear it 1078 00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,319 Speaker 1: in your office, Like half the problems the problem right 1079 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:12,680 Speaker 1: here in is people being lonely. That's I read wrote 1080 00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,080 Speaker 1: a whole article on that people. If I read, I 1081 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,680 Speaker 1: would read that. I won't take that offensively. You don't 1082 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:20,439 Speaker 1: have a person impression of me, and then you don't 1083 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:25,480 Speaker 1: read to the past. Okay, great, Um, But yeah, I 1084 00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:27,719 Speaker 1: think that a lot of people come in here and 1085 00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:30,279 Speaker 1: think it comes down to like I'm not in relationship, 1086 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:32,759 Speaker 1: like I want to be in relationship with people, and 1087 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:36,400 Speaker 1: that's terrifying, and we'll do anything to fix that or 1088 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:42,360 Speaker 1: avoid feeling it to different avenues, which is like group therapy, 1089 00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:46,520 Speaker 1: Like I have group therapy for all listeners out there, 1090 00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,480 Speaker 1: is amazing. I change more in group therapy than I 1091 00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,360 Speaker 1: ever have changed individual therapy. And I love individual therapy, 1092 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:55,799 Speaker 1: I really do. I think there's a time, I think 1093 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,880 Speaker 1: there's a place. But also group therapy is so powerful, 1094 00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:02,240 Speaker 1: and I get it people are scared. I was scared. 1095 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,880 Speaker 1: But it's hard to sit with people who are lonely 1096 00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,560 Speaker 1: and then to offer group therapy and people be like, oh, hello, 1097 00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to that. I'm like, all right, what 1098 00:57:11,160 --> 00:57:14,920 Speaker 1: I think I see when I encourage that, or even 1099 00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:17,440 Speaker 1: when I worked in treatment, you had to go and 1100 00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,080 Speaker 1: people are like, I'm not going to that group. I'm 1101 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,919 Speaker 1: not talking to that group. It's because there is part 1102 00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: of us that knows by doing that, that's going to 1103 00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:27,600 Speaker 1: open up a whole another avenue and to get what 1104 00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,000 Speaker 1: I want, I'm going to have to learn how to 1105 00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:32,400 Speaker 1: let go of that log and so going to a 1106 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,000 Speaker 1: group people are going to essentially I was talking about 1107 00:57:35,040 --> 00:57:38,040 Speaker 1: earlier with just our personal conversation, I'm like, I'm going 1108 00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:39,400 Speaker 1: to be in a room with people that are going 1109 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: to be holding up mirrors to the behaviors that I'm choosing, 1110 00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:44,600 Speaker 1: and I'm not going to be able to be like 1111 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:48,080 Speaker 1: lie about that because there's ten people, five people wherever, 1112 00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:52,320 Speaker 1: many people seeing it. So yeah, you guys should get 1113 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:54,880 Speaker 1: in some group therapy. Meganiz group. I have a couple 1114 00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,120 Speaker 1: of groups, same with plug right there. Um uh. And 1115 00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: we're gonna start up wor gonna one day have a 1116 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:02,440 Speaker 1: little situation for you guys to come hang out with 1117 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,439 Speaker 1: both of us. Yeah, but back to back to where 1118 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:11,000 Speaker 1: we were. Can you move us through post college that 1119 00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,919 Speaker 1: you graduated, you've got so mega got an undergraduate degree 1120 00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,680 Speaker 1: accounting and then a graduate degree and what sports leadership? 1121 00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:19,680 Speaker 1: Sports leadership and then you come where? And then I 1122 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:24,080 Speaker 1: graduated and two days later I flew out to Portland, Oregon, 1123 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,640 Speaker 1: and I didn't internship working at Nike, and I forgot 1124 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: about this part of your life. Yeah that was the plan, 1125 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,240 Speaker 1: Like I was gonna drink right yeah, dream job. You know, 1126 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,640 Speaker 1: I got selected for this really niche experience I'm working 1127 00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:42,560 Speaker 1: out there. It was a really eye opening experience, like 1128 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:44,520 Speaker 1: this is what I thought I wanted. Like I made it. 1129 00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:47,240 Speaker 1: You know. Lebron James was riding his bike around campus, 1130 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,560 Speaker 1: um and I'm just walking past him, you know, and 1131 00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,480 Speaker 1: this was it. And I'm so so grateful for that 1132 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,400 Speaker 1: experience because it was so much of what I thought 1133 00:58:56,400 --> 00:59:00,080 Speaker 1: I wanted. Um. I thought that it would make you 1134 00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:02,480 Speaker 1: feel different about myself. I thought that finally I would 1135 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,600 Speaker 1: feel like, man, I'm enough. But as anybody knows, like 1136 00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,520 Speaker 1: as soon as you get to the next rung of 1137 00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: the ladder, the next one like pops up and you're like, 1138 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,560 Speaker 1: oh shit, I gotta keep climbing. And so what I've 1139 00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,840 Speaker 1: learned there were you aware of the feelings associated with 1140 00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,880 Speaker 1: being there and realizing that there was another rung. Yeah, 1141 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,760 Speaker 1: I think. So I've always been a pretty and I I 1142 00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:25,720 Speaker 1: don't know if you're like this or maybe all therapists 1143 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:28,240 Speaker 1: are like this, but even at fourteen, I think people 1144 00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,480 Speaker 1: said I acted like I was thirty. Um, And so 1145 00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:34,480 Speaker 1: I think I've always been pretty, like insightful. I just 1146 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:39,120 Speaker 1: didn't have the right environment to really be myself or 1147 00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:40,760 Speaker 1: I didn't know how to be myself for that kind 1148 00:59:40,760 --> 00:59:43,240 Speaker 1: of thing. So yeah, I knew. And actually somebody came 1149 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,200 Speaker 1: to visit me and I was showing around campus because 1150 00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:50,040 Speaker 1: Nike World Headquarters is like forty people, it's a college campus, 1151 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:52,440 Speaker 1: and they looked at me and they said, like, wow, 1152 00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,760 Speaker 1: you can't ever leave here, like you've made it this 1153 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,880 Speaker 1: is amazing. And I remember inside of me thinking to 1154 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 1: myself for the first time, I started finding my anger, 1155 01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,880 Speaker 1: and I thought, if you fucking want to come work here, 1156 01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,280 Speaker 1: you work here, but like I don't want to be here. 1157 01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:10,480 Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, I don't know. I want 1158 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:11,760 Speaker 1: to say I was mad at the world, but I 1159 01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:15,000 Speaker 1: think I was mad at I had always played this 1160 01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,000 Speaker 1: hero role in my family. That's another episode Family Roles, 1161 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,720 Speaker 1: But you know, like I was always winning awards and 1162 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,480 Speaker 1: doing this and doing that and like the hero, and 1163 01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 1: I think I was just like, man, I'm tired. I've 1164 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,400 Speaker 1: been performing my whole life. I literally graduated from college, 1165 01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:35,640 Speaker 1: stopped playing my golf career, and the next day basically 1166 01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:38,440 Speaker 1: went to work. And I remember thinking to myself, when dow, 1167 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:40,360 Speaker 1: I actually get to do what I want to do. 1168 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,920 Speaker 1: And I really had this moment of clarity, which I'm 1169 01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:46,760 Speaker 1: so thankful for, where I thought to myself, you know what, 1170 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:49,040 Speaker 1: I was walking around campus. I was walking from one 1171 01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,880 Speaker 1: building to the other, and I thought to myself, you know, 1172 01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,200 Speaker 1: if I fell over and died right now, I think 1173 01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:56,520 Speaker 1: the next person would be standing behind me, like trying 1174 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,240 Speaker 1: to take my job, because it's a competitive culture and 1175 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,560 Speaker 1: right rightfully so, but I thought to myself, I'm like, Megan, 1176 01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:05,080 Speaker 1: is that the life that you want? And so that 1177 01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,200 Speaker 1: internship ended four months later and I got on a plane. 1178 01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:14,959 Speaker 1: Oh my god, what and I moved to Eastern Africa. Wait. 1179 01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:18,720 Speaker 1: I totally blocked that out. I live in Africa for 1180 01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:22,680 Speaker 1: six months, seven months doing what mission work? Wait? Okay, 1181 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,520 Speaker 1: to hold on because you are I don't even know 1182 01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: like what word what comes after trifecta? But like you 1183 01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:32,880 Speaker 1: are like the Okay, so you're playing this college sport, 1184 01:01:32,880 --> 01:01:35,600 Speaker 1: you're getting multiple degrees, you're drinking in parties. So you 1185 01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:37,720 Speaker 1: have that part, and you have this faith part, then 1186 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:39,480 Speaker 1: you have this Nike part. Then like so like what 1187 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:41,080 Speaker 1: do you if I'm not going to be the top 1188 01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:43,160 Speaker 1: at Nike, I'm gonna go and like save all of 1189 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:46,080 Speaker 1: the children in Africa become like a mission like what 1190 01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to write a book. But like you are 1191 01:01:49,280 --> 01:01:52,240 Speaker 1: the like whack a mole of like what can I hit? 1192 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,520 Speaker 1: This isn't working, This isn't working, This isn't working. This 1193 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,720 Speaker 1: isn't working because you know you're not giving up. What 1194 01:01:57,800 --> 01:01:59,640 Speaker 1: you're not doing is you're not giving up. You're going 1195 01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,480 Speaker 1: to keep going until you find that sense of like 1196 01:02:03,280 --> 01:02:06,560 Speaker 1: belonging or whatever it is, and that means what. Yeah, 1197 01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:08,720 Speaker 1: and I think the thing is is I don't think 1198 01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:10,600 Speaker 1: people looked at me and thought like, what the heck 1199 01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:13,280 Speaker 1: is wrong with her? She's crazy or something. People actually 1200 01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,400 Speaker 1: looked at me and kept thinking that I was amazing. 1201 01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,480 Speaker 1: And so what ended up happening is all of my 1202 01:02:18,560 --> 01:02:21,560 Speaker 1: pain always got ignored, and not always, but I think 1203 01:02:21,560 --> 01:02:23,600 Speaker 1: it was easy to ignore it because it's like, oh, yeah, 1204 01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:27,160 Speaker 1: Megan might have this and this and this like going on, 1205 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:29,880 Speaker 1: but also like we love being around her, Look how 1206 01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:33,160 Speaker 1: awesome she is. And so I was so good at performing, 1207 01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,400 Speaker 1: like I was so good at being who I needed 1208 01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:38,800 Speaker 1: to be, and like locking the pain away that I 1209 01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:42,800 Speaker 1: just kept going. And so the Africa thing really was like, Wow, well, 1210 01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:45,800 Speaker 1: if being rich and successful didn't didn't work for me, 1211 01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,520 Speaker 1: maybe being poor will. This is why I love talking 1212 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:51,480 Speaker 1: to you. I love so much about myself, my tact you, 1213 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,160 Speaker 1: and just see how therapists are always learning about themselves. 1214 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:59,520 Speaker 1: So I can't stop. Yeah, um, last week I had 1215 01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:02,960 Speaker 1: where we have we have very similar personalities, which we know, 1216 01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,600 Speaker 1: and I'm always doing things and I think a lot 1217 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,640 Speaker 1: of people, a lot of people will look at me 1218 01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,600 Speaker 1: and be like, Wow, she can start a business, she 1219 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:13,600 Speaker 1: can teach cycling, she can be the life of this party. 1220 01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:15,840 Speaker 1: She can teach her how to teach herself how to 1221 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:17,960 Speaker 1: do this. If I want to learn how to do something, 1222 01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:19,960 Speaker 1: I have the ability to learn how to do it 1223 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,240 Speaker 1: and do it well. And I've done that a lot, 1224 01:03:23,960 --> 01:03:26,360 Speaker 1: and I fit in a lot of different areas. And 1225 01:03:26,920 --> 01:03:29,600 Speaker 1: my friend this week, she was talking to her friend 1226 01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,160 Speaker 1: that was doing something and she needed something to keep 1227 01:03:32,160 --> 01:03:33,880 Speaker 1: her mind occupied. A boy she's doing it. She's like, 1228 01:03:34,120 --> 01:03:38,000 Speaker 1: listen to my friend Catherine's podcast, and she said, Wow, 1229 01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:41,000 Speaker 1: that girl can do anything. And she sent it to 1230 01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:43,880 Speaker 1: me and I was like, of course, I'm supposed to 1231 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,680 Speaker 1: be a compliment, right, But I'm like, I don't want to. 1232 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:50,919 Speaker 1: I don't know that I want that. I think that 1233 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:53,800 Speaker 1: people are probably like get your ship together or like 1234 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: stay consistent or whatever. But I feel something about the 1235 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,479 Speaker 1: fact that I always have to be doing something. Yeah. 1236 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,400 Speaker 1: It sounds like if I can be a therapist or 1237 01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:05,320 Speaker 1: a second um, it sounds like you feel shame for 1238 01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:07,360 Speaker 1: the way that you're wired. And I think with any 1239 01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,520 Speaker 1: of us, it's like knowing our wiring. So I once 1240 01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:12,160 Speaker 1: had a friend one time who was like, gosh, I 1241 01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:14,080 Speaker 1: don't know that I can be friends with you. You 1242 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,800 Speaker 1: always have like something different going on, or you're never 1243 01:04:16,840 --> 01:04:19,200 Speaker 1: committed to anything, and that really, like I had to 1244 01:04:19,240 --> 01:04:21,800 Speaker 1: think about that, and I really it was actually in 1245 01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,680 Speaker 1: reference to how much I switched different gyms that I 1246 01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: was doing and which I do that, and I went 1247 01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:31,800 Speaker 1: and I was kind of processing this in therapy of like, man, 1248 01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:34,160 Speaker 1: is this really who I am? Like I can't say 1249 01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,920 Speaker 1: committed anything, And really what I found is like, no, 1250 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:40,560 Speaker 1: I am committed to the things that matter for me. 1251 01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:42,760 Speaker 1: And then also I need a lot of change and 1252 01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,360 Speaker 1: variety in my life, and so yeah, there are a 1253 01:04:45,360 --> 01:04:47,120 Speaker 1: lot of things that change with me, Like I have 1254 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:49,880 Speaker 1: new hobbies, I have new gyms. I'm reading. You know, 1255 01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:51,440 Speaker 1: I said I don't read, but that's a lie. I 1256 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,680 Speaker 1: do try to read eight books at one time. And 1257 01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,040 Speaker 1: there's all these different things. Um, I gush I could 1258 01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,640 Speaker 1: say I did reading half of a book. Sometimes I do, 1259 01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:02,480 Speaker 1: But I also say, you know what, if you get 1260 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,800 Speaker 1: what you need, then you can put the book down. 1261 01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, I think, what what I get what I 1262 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,479 Speaker 1: need out of doing projects? And I've done and yeah, 1263 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:12,280 Speaker 1: You're right. I feel ashamed of the fact that people 1264 01:05:12,360 --> 01:05:14,760 Speaker 1: might see that one way, but one I'm making that 1265 01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:16,800 Speaker 1: story up because I think a lot what a lot 1266 01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,760 Speaker 1: of people do see is, oh, I wish that I 1267 01:05:19,760 --> 01:05:23,560 Speaker 1: have the ability to leave something when it's not working anymore, 1268 01:05:23,880 --> 01:05:25,640 Speaker 1: which is what you did in Oregon. You left, you 1269 01:05:25,640 --> 01:05:28,320 Speaker 1: went to Africa. So then you go to Africa. So 1270 01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,280 Speaker 1: I go to Africa, and I thought that I was 1271 01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:33,080 Speaker 1: It's a really long story. I thought I was going 1272 01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:35,520 Speaker 1: there to just do like some service work. Turns out 1273 01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:38,920 Speaker 1: I was a missionary and preaching in the street and 1274 01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:45,040 Speaker 1: in churches the gospel um, which is just not me um. 1275 01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,280 Speaker 1: But because I can't quit anything, or couldn't quit anything, 1276 01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:51,640 Speaker 1: I stayed there for the seven months. I came back 1277 01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:55,320 Speaker 1: thirty pounds heavier, and I was in fact sober for 1278 01:05:55,360 --> 01:05:59,200 Speaker 1: those those months, but came back and had never ever 1279 01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:01,560 Speaker 1: I was living literally in the bush, so I had 1280 01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:04,640 Speaker 1: not seen how I looked, and was just eating carbs 1281 01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,280 Speaker 1: and all sorts of things. So I came back really 1282 01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,360 Speaker 1: not okay in my body for lots of reasons. I mean, sure, 1283 01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:13,200 Speaker 1: there's the eating disorder stuff, but then also like I 1284 01:06:13,280 --> 01:06:17,680 Speaker 1: just didn't feel good I mean I was swollowing, right, 1285 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:21,000 Speaker 1: And so I came back. I kind of wandered around. 1286 01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:24,120 Speaker 1: I lived in my family's house. I traveled for six months. 1287 01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,160 Speaker 1: I was so so so lost, um, but really trying 1288 01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,720 Speaker 1: to figure out what I was going to do next. 1289 01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:32,440 Speaker 1: And actually I thought like, well, I guess I'll go 1290 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:36,520 Speaker 1: coach college golf because golf was what I knew, um, 1291 01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:38,280 Speaker 1: And there was a lot of there is. I tell 1292 01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,320 Speaker 1: people I would love to coach college golf. I love 1293 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:43,320 Speaker 1: everything about coaching and think I'd be successful except for 1294 01:06:43,320 --> 01:06:47,960 Speaker 1: the actual golf part. Um. But so I started interviewing 1295 01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:49,880 Speaker 1: for these different jobs, all this stuff, and I had 1296 01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:52,920 Speaker 1: some good friends living in Nashville, and gosh, I interviewed 1297 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:59,680 Speaker 1: a Dave Ramsey, I interviewed just alsos U um. And 1298 01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:02,360 Speaker 1: so I was interviewing for these things and all this stuff, 1299 01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,360 Speaker 1: and um, I was reading burn A Brown's Daring Greatly, 1300 01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:08,320 Speaker 1: and and it she tells the story of this guy 1301 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:11,320 Speaker 1: who came up to her afterward, and he talked about 1302 01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,160 Speaker 1: how when he was younger, he used to be a 1303 01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:16,560 Speaker 1: painter and he hung his paintings on the refrigerator and 1304 01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:18,640 Speaker 1: one time his uncle came over and said to his 1305 01:07:18,720 --> 01:07:21,560 Speaker 1: dad like, what are you raising this faggot artists? And 1306 01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:24,480 Speaker 1: the guy said, I felt so much shame I never 1307 01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:28,160 Speaker 1: painted again. And again I had this another moment of clarity, 1308 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:30,560 Speaker 1: and I thought, what do I have so much shame 1309 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,920 Speaker 1: about in my life that I'm not willing to do? 1310 01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,040 Speaker 1: And so I just keep doing whatever I think is 1311 01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:37,720 Speaker 1: gonna make me look good because I think the guy 1312 01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:39,840 Speaker 1: had gone out to be really successful in business. And 1313 01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:42,160 Speaker 1: so in that moment, I realized like I was going 1314 01:07:42,200 --> 01:07:45,640 Speaker 1: after these really big time golf coaching jobs, and I 1315 01:07:45,720 --> 01:07:49,200 Speaker 1: was having success and had some offers, and I thought, wow, 1316 01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:51,240 Speaker 1: I'm about to do the same thing. I'm about to 1317 01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,160 Speaker 1: take this job where people will think I'm awesome because 1318 01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:56,240 Speaker 1: oh I'm so young and I have this awesome job. 1319 01:07:57,120 --> 01:07:59,960 Speaker 1: And in the midst of it, like I am didn't 1320 01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:02,360 Speaker 1: dying like who I really am, and I had no 1321 01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,680 Speaker 1: idea who I really was. I just knew it wasn't 1322 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:08,240 Speaker 1: like golf. And so I had been offered a coaching 1323 01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,200 Speaker 1: job at Travecca because one of my friends was coaching soccer. 1324 01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:13,240 Speaker 1: It's a long story, but I came down here and 1325 01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,440 Speaker 1: coach golf and they said, hey, we can't pay you 1326 01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:17,280 Speaker 1: that much, but you can go to school for free. 1327 01:08:17,320 --> 01:08:19,839 Speaker 1: And I thought, well, I'm really good at going to school, 1328 01:08:20,200 --> 01:08:22,920 Speaker 1: Like I love going to school like that, I'm like 1329 01:08:23,000 --> 01:08:24,479 Speaker 1: always at the top of my class. It makes me 1330 01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,639 Speaker 1: feel so good about all this stuff that I'm doing 1331 01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:30,240 Speaker 1: that really lacks integrity and the super destructive. But I 1332 01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:31,880 Speaker 1: was like, man, I got these business degrees. I've had 1333 01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:34,719 Speaker 1: the sports leadership degree. I guess I'll take some counseling classes. 1334 01:08:35,360 --> 01:08:39,760 Speaker 1: So that's really literally just started taking counseling classes. And 1335 01:08:39,800 --> 01:08:42,040 Speaker 1: then I got into some of my own counseling, which 1336 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,439 Speaker 1: I've been in before. It was actually group counseling, and 1337 01:08:44,479 --> 01:08:47,280 Speaker 1: I kept coming in and saying, like, you know, I 1338 01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:49,880 Speaker 1: had built this life that looks so good on the outside, 1339 01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:51,800 Speaker 1: and then I would go to counseling and say like, 1340 01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:54,599 Speaker 1: here's this crazy thing that I did last week. And 1341 01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:56,160 Speaker 1: one time I came in and I said I just 1342 01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:59,240 Speaker 1: don't know what to do, and the therapist looked at 1343 01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:01,479 Speaker 1: me and said, you're an addict. Do you need to 1344 01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,360 Speaker 1: go to rehab? And I said me And I was like, 1345 01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: people like me don't go to rehab, Like do you 1346 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:11,200 Speaker 1: know what I've done? Like I played golf, in the 1347 01:09:11,280 --> 01:09:13,360 Speaker 1: sec I've won this award. I worked at Nike, I 1348 01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,120 Speaker 1: lived in Africa, Like you know, I people like me 1349 01:09:17,240 --> 01:09:21,559 Speaker 1: don't do that. And fortunately, because you had the same 1350 01:09:21,600 --> 01:09:25,080 Speaker 1: idea of that, I had probably a people that you're 1351 01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:28,120 Speaker 1: not like that. Well in the same like I know people, 1352 01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:31,120 Speaker 1: I know what people who go to rehab do. I'm 1353 01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,760 Speaker 1: not doing that. Yeah, I'm not that bad. I don't 1354 01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,360 Speaker 1: live under a bridge. Actually I have. I have a 1355 01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:38,759 Speaker 1: lot of friends and did at the time who drank 1356 01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,760 Speaker 1: way more than me um or had way more going 1357 01:09:41,800 --> 01:09:44,760 Speaker 1: on than me. And this therapist looked at me and said, 1358 01:09:45,080 --> 01:09:46,840 Speaker 1: you know, Megan, I know a guy who drinks one 1359 01:09:46,880 --> 01:09:49,360 Speaker 1: day a year, and he's an alcoholic because when he stopped, 1360 01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,360 Speaker 1: when he starts, he doesn't stop and he doesn't know 1361 01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:54,240 Speaker 1: what's going to happen. And again I kind of like 1362 01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:57,599 Speaker 1: was like f you, you know whatever, and I wasn't 1363 01:09:57,600 --> 01:09:59,800 Speaker 1: really wasn't going to go. But I started talking to 1364 01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:01,760 Speaker 1: some my friends and I was like, listen to this 1365 01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:05,439 Speaker 1: crazy idea this therapist told me, and my friends actually 1366 01:10:05,479 --> 01:10:07,360 Speaker 1: were like who had been there on the journey with 1367 01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,680 Speaker 1: me for years and they actually were like, well, you know, 1368 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:13,519 Speaker 1: I never thought of that before but maybe, And I 1369 01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:17,000 Speaker 1: was like, you all are crazy, no way, And so finally, 1370 01:10:17,120 --> 01:10:19,040 Speaker 1: like again, there's this one day. I remember I was 1371 01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:20,719 Speaker 1: on a golf trip and I walked into a hotel 1372 01:10:20,800 --> 01:10:23,360 Speaker 1: room by myself, and I just thought to myself, like, 1373 01:10:23,720 --> 01:10:27,920 Speaker 1: I am so lonely, I'm so miserable. I really like, 1374 01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,360 Speaker 1: I just don't care if I live, if I die, 1375 01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:35,400 Speaker 1: Like I don't care. And I pictured my life five 1376 01:10:35,479 --> 01:10:37,880 Speaker 1: years from now, and I thought, in five years, I'm 1377 01:10:37,880 --> 01:10:40,960 Speaker 1: going to be married to some guy who looks the 1378 01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,400 Speaker 1: right way and makes a lot of money, and we're 1379 01:10:43,400 --> 01:10:46,400 Speaker 1: gonna have kids, and I'm gonna be drinking like in secret. 1380 01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,800 Speaker 1: And I was like, that is what my life is 1381 01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:52,000 Speaker 1: going to look like. And I thought to myself, well, 1382 01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:54,880 Speaker 1: I guess I'll go to treatment, Like I have no 1383 01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:57,840 Speaker 1: idea if this is gonna work. I've tried so much, 1384 01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,600 Speaker 1: but I don't want that life, like they're got to 1385 01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,600 Speaker 1: be something better. And so I went to treatment. In 1386 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:07,719 Speaker 1: five months of treatment, it came back. I went treatment, 1387 01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,439 Speaker 1: I went sober living. You followed recommendations, yes, And that's 1388 01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:13,760 Speaker 1: the whole story for another day. And I came back 1389 01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:15,000 Speaker 1: and I was still like, I have no idea I 1390 01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,360 Speaker 1: want to want to do. But I kept going to 1391 01:11:16,400 --> 01:11:19,920 Speaker 1: class and kept coaching golf just to like provide some consistency, 1392 01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,040 Speaker 1: and finally got some real recovery under my belt and 1393 01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:26,479 Speaker 1: some healing, and was like, you know what, Like, I 1394 01:11:26,600 --> 01:11:29,240 Speaker 1: have a life that is really, really amazing, And the 1395 01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,120 Speaker 1: most amazing part about that is like I like myself, 1396 01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:37,679 Speaker 1: Like I genuinely like myself, and I genuinely am able 1397 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,080 Speaker 1: to be myself and for the most part, you know, 1398 01:11:40,160 --> 01:11:43,120 Speaker 1: not with perfection. And I was like, I want other 1399 01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:45,600 Speaker 1: people to have this. So then you became it. So 1400 01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:47,920 Speaker 1: then I was like, I guess I'm doing it. So 1401 01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,240 Speaker 1: and the idea of like to like yourself, you have 1402 01:11:51,320 --> 01:11:54,240 Speaker 1: to know yourself, and so I know that you had 1403 01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:57,719 Speaker 1: a really unique way of going about that. And it started, 1404 01:11:57,760 --> 01:12:00,840 Speaker 1: I think in treatment of you being like, what the funk? 1405 01:12:00,840 --> 01:12:02,680 Speaker 1: I don't know what I like? I know what I 1406 01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,800 Speaker 1: know some things I don't like. But what did you 1407 01:12:04,840 --> 01:12:07,360 Speaker 1: do to figure out who that person was so then 1408 01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,559 Speaker 1: you could learn to like her? Yeah? So I had 1409 01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:15,840 Speaker 1: extensive amounts of self pity, um like internally, and what 1410 01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:17,960 Speaker 1: did that do for you? Because again, we don't do 1411 01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:19,960 Speaker 1: anything for no reason. So like we get stuck in 1412 01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,800 Speaker 1: that self pity victim mode. What was that doing for you? 1413 01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,599 Speaker 1: It validated me. It was like I felt like, oh 1414 01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:27,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, my life is so bad. And then I 1415 01:12:27,760 --> 01:12:30,320 Speaker 1: kept telling myself, my life is so hard, my life 1416 01:12:30,320 --> 01:12:31,880 Speaker 1: is so bad. And then I really didn't have to 1417 01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:35,400 Speaker 1: take any ownership and I didn't have to do different yeah, 1418 01:12:35,680 --> 01:12:37,719 Speaker 1: and I could just feel helpless and like a victim. 1419 01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,240 Speaker 1: And so I literally was in treatment and I looked 1420 01:12:40,240 --> 01:12:42,160 Speaker 1: at my clothes that I was wearing, and I was like, 1421 01:12:42,880 --> 01:12:45,760 Speaker 1: these are not even clothes that I would wear. I 1422 01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:49,320 Speaker 1: have dressed this certain country club esque way my whole life. 1423 01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,280 Speaker 1: This isn't even me and most of my life has 1424 01:12:52,320 --> 01:12:56,120 Speaker 1: spent been spent playing sports. And I had this moment 1425 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:58,880 Speaker 1: where I was like feeling sorry for myself that, you know, 1426 01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:02,240 Speaker 1: I didn't get to explore the other things, and really 1427 01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:06,240 Speaker 1: also like didn't feel very feminine. And for some reason 1428 01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:08,840 Speaker 1: I found enough anger to be like, you know what, 1429 01:13:08,920 --> 01:13:10,720 Speaker 1: like what the hell are you going to do about this? 1430 01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:13,439 Speaker 1: Like you can't just keep living your whole life feeling 1431 01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:16,639 Speaker 1: sorry for yourself. And so I was like, all right, 1432 01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,519 Speaker 1: I'm doing it, Like I'm gonna start and I really 1433 01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:21,639 Speaker 1: made a commitment to myself. I was like, I'm gonna 1434 01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,800 Speaker 1: try something new every and I say every quarter, but 1435 01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:26,960 Speaker 1: it was really like every couple of months or whatever. 1436 01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,800 Speaker 1: Can I add something because I like what you just said. 1437 01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,559 Speaker 1: And I talked to a lot of people about feelings overall, 1438 01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:38,040 Speaker 1: but especially anger, and as a society and as humans 1439 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,439 Speaker 1: living in the society, we look at that as a 1440 01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:43,120 Speaker 1: really bad feeling and a scary feeling and feeling we 1441 01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:46,519 Speaker 1: want to get rid of, and another area to walk 1442 01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:48,800 Speaker 1: down as a difference between like anger, resentment, and rage. 1443 01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,679 Speaker 1: But just anger. It's not bad. And I think of 1444 01:13:52,080 --> 01:13:56,280 Speaker 1: any emotion, any feeling, as essentially energy. And so instead 1445 01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:58,800 Speaker 1: of you stay in that place of like I don't 1446 01:13:58,800 --> 01:14:02,439 Speaker 1: want to feel angry, you actually are using the anger 1447 01:14:02,520 --> 01:14:05,320 Speaker 1: to move you into a direction that then, like the 1448 01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:08,160 Speaker 1: anger might dissipate. But like, use it, don't try to 1449 01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:11,120 Speaker 1: ignore our heide it, you're you used it. So when 1450 01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:13,599 Speaker 1: I talk to people, anybody who's heard me say that, 1451 01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,320 Speaker 1: that's a direct example of like what I'm talking about, 1452 01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:20,559 Speaker 1: your anger can be for you, right like anger when 1453 01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,000 Speaker 1: we talk about anger, like if you're not using your anger, 1454 01:14:23,040 --> 01:14:26,160 Speaker 1: you feel depression. If you think about depression. To depress something, 1455 01:14:26,200 --> 01:14:29,599 Speaker 1: you pressed something down so far it doesn't exist anymore. 1456 01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:32,519 Speaker 1: And so part of healing is finding your anger, which 1457 01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:34,160 Speaker 1: tells us what we want to be different, what we're 1458 01:14:34,160 --> 01:14:37,519 Speaker 1: passionate about. Like when you finally find anger, you're willing 1459 01:14:37,560 --> 01:14:40,400 Speaker 1: to do something. So yeah, I found that anger and 1460 01:14:40,439 --> 01:14:42,639 Speaker 1: I really started out on this quest. Like my first 1461 01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:46,240 Speaker 1: quest was that I wanted to feel more feminine, and um, 1462 01:14:46,360 --> 01:14:49,280 Speaker 1: I remember the only rules where that I always had 1463 01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,200 Speaker 1: to be doing something different, like you know, every when 1464 01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:54,120 Speaker 1: one thing ended, I needed to go into the next thing. 1465 01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,120 Speaker 1: And then the second rule was I had to honor 1466 01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,240 Speaker 1: my commitment to myself. Yeah they're just my So honoring 1467 01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:02,920 Speaker 1: my commitment was like if I signed up for an 1468 01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,080 Speaker 1: eight week class, I needed to go for all eight 1469 01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:06,840 Speaker 1: weeks no matter how much I hated it, and I 1470 01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:09,000 Speaker 1: never had to do it again. But I had to 1471 01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,320 Speaker 1: do it almost I mean not almost. It literally was 1472 01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:15,360 Speaker 1: me reparenting myself. Like that's similar to what healthy parents 1473 01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:17,960 Speaker 1: would do with a child, is like, yeah, you're gonna 1474 01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:19,479 Speaker 1: do this for this season. If you don't want to 1475 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:21,080 Speaker 1: do it again, great, but you're not going to quit. 1476 01:15:21,520 --> 01:15:23,680 Speaker 1: And so if you would have been in Los Angeles. 1477 01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,840 Speaker 1: When I was out there at l A Fitness, my 1478 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,320 Speaker 1: first thing was going to zoomba class. Oh my god, 1479 01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:31,000 Speaker 1: zoomba class. I think it was like twice a week 1480 01:15:31,080 --> 01:15:35,200 Speaker 1: for eight weeks, and I cried for like I promised you. 1481 01:15:35,320 --> 01:15:38,200 Speaker 1: I cried probably for like the first five weeks. But 1482 01:15:38,320 --> 01:15:40,880 Speaker 1: I did not leave that room because that was the goal. 1483 01:15:40,960 --> 01:15:43,920 Speaker 1: It's like I didn't have to dance. I just had 1484 01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:46,759 Speaker 1: to not leave the room. Um. And so I'm sure 1485 01:15:46,800 --> 01:15:48,759 Speaker 1: people were like, what is going on with this girl? 1486 01:15:48,960 --> 01:15:52,080 Speaker 1: But that's really, like I think was a huge part 1487 01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:55,200 Speaker 1: of my healing. And since then, I've done zoomba, I've 1488 01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:59,200 Speaker 1: taken makeup lessons, I've taken uh lessons on how to 1489 01:15:59,240 --> 01:16:02,920 Speaker 1: curl my hair. I've taken painting, I've taken pottery, I've 1490 01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:07,440 Speaker 1: taken tennis lessons. I took improv class to improv classes. 1491 01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:13,040 Speaker 1: That right, that's what they started this conversation with. That's 1492 01:16:13,040 --> 01:16:15,599 Speaker 1: what I knew we would do this. But um, they're 1493 01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:17,840 Speaker 1: probably listening people listening to this that are like, oh, 1494 01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:19,800 Speaker 1: that's who she's talking about. I tell that story all 1495 01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:21,960 Speaker 1: the time because when people are like I don't know 1496 01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,120 Speaker 1: what I like, I'm like, well, there's a way to 1497 01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,400 Speaker 1: figure that out. And even when you don't like it, 1498 01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:28,320 Speaker 1: let's say you never do it again, you are still 1499 01:16:28,400 --> 01:16:30,960 Speaker 1: learning what you like in that because you're not just 1500 01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:33,760 Speaker 1: doing the thing. There's many other aspects that You're not 1501 01:16:33,880 --> 01:16:36,679 Speaker 1: just making pottery. You're going to ability and you're talking 1502 01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:39,160 Speaker 1: to people. What kind of people are you trying to? Like? 1503 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,519 Speaker 1: It's so much more than that. So here everybody, Megan 1504 01:16:42,640 --> 01:16:45,840 Speaker 1: is who I'm and there's been so many gifts. A 1505 01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,320 Speaker 1: lot of those things I haven't done. But like pottery, 1506 01:16:48,360 --> 01:16:51,040 Speaker 1: for example, Oh my gosh, I was horrible. I was 1507 01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:54,000 Speaker 1: so horrible at pottery, and you know, I really tried, 1508 01:16:54,080 --> 01:16:56,599 Speaker 1: and the teacher like got frustrated with me. And then 1509 01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:58,840 Speaker 1: about four out of the eight weeks in, I was like, 1510 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:01,280 Speaker 1: you know what, No, I'm gonna do something like I'm 1511 01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:03,360 Speaker 1: done trying to make these cups in these bowls like 1512 01:17:03,439 --> 01:17:06,599 Speaker 1: I suck and that's just the reality. And actually I 1513 01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,040 Speaker 1: ended up making I started thinking I had been wanting 1514 01:17:09,080 --> 01:17:11,280 Speaker 1: something to give to my clients when they were done 1515 01:17:11,280 --> 01:17:13,240 Speaker 1: with therapy where they could like remember and go on, 1516 01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:16,000 Speaker 1: and so I actually ended up making a pottery classes. 1517 01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,120 Speaker 1: These coins similar like a coin you would get into 1518 01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:21,400 Speaker 1: a twelve step program and they like I use macaroni 1519 01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,080 Speaker 1: noodles to like press in the words lean in, And 1520 01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:26,400 Speaker 1: so I end up making these really cool coins that 1521 01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,439 Speaker 1: I could give out like when people ended therapy well 1522 01:17:29,800 --> 01:17:31,439 Speaker 1: and not do when they ended well, but when they 1523 01:17:31,520 --> 01:17:33,679 Speaker 1: ended therapy with me. And it's been such a gift. 1524 01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:35,760 Speaker 1: Do you still do that? Yeah? I still do it. 1525 01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:40,120 Speaker 1: And so yes, pottery like making you know, bowls didn't 1526 01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:42,400 Speaker 1: really work out for me, but I actually got this 1527 01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:45,800 Speaker 1: totally different gift in the midst of trying it. Yeah, 1528 01:17:45,840 --> 01:17:49,080 Speaker 1: and what like a story to tell about you can 1529 01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:52,599 Speaker 1: go into just because how something is starting out doesn't 1530 01:17:52,640 --> 01:17:54,759 Speaker 1: mean it has to end that way, Like you can shift, 1531 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:58,120 Speaker 1: Like at any point, you can change your mind about something. 1532 01:17:58,680 --> 01:18:02,160 Speaker 1: Nothing it's permanent unless you wanted to be and um 1533 01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:04,160 Speaker 1: which I feel like I'm teaching a second part class 1534 01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:09,960 Speaker 1: the time. But yeah, but for you, um uh, you 1535 01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,040 Speaker 1: didn't have to quit that class. You just shifted. And 1536 01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,000 Speaker 1: are you willing to go through some of the ship 1537 01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:18,639 Speaker 1: to find the gold? Like I think that's the biggest 1538 01:18:18,680 --> 01:18:21,240 Speaker 1: thing because even in a lot of the hobbies I've tried, 1539 01:18:21,720 --> 01:18:24,280 Speaker 1: like yeah, maybe nine out of ten of them, I 1540 01:18:24,360 --> 01:18:26,639 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I never doing that again. But it's 1541 01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:28,679 Speaker 1: sort of like I say, with dating. You know, before 1542 01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,920 Speaker 1: I met Eric, I cannot tell you know someone I 1543 01:18:31,960 --> 01:18:34,559 Speaker 1: used to do like full on improv skits of bad 1544 01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:37,240 Speaker 1: dates that I went on. Um, I'm actually I have 1545 01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:40,360 Speaker 1: some friends who are genuinely sad that I met Eric 1546 01:18:40,400 --> 01:18:42,599 Speaker 1: because they don't get to fear about my dates anymore. 1547 01:18:42,840 --> 01:18:44,840 Speaker 1: Oh my god. But you know, like when I look 1548 01:18:44,920 --> 01:18:46,960 Speaker 1: back in the midst of it, was it terrible to 1549 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,880 Speaker 1: go on like so many dates. And it wasn't terrible. 1550 01:18:49,920 --> 01:18:52,400 Speaker 1: I mean I was learning about myself. But to go 1551 01:18:52,439 --> 01:18:54,880 Speaker 1: on all these dates and you know, to meet somebody, 1552 01:18:54,960 --> 01:18:56,559 Speaker 1: maybe date for a little bit, and then it doesn't 1553 01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,840 Speaker 1: work out and there's a disappointment, or you know, you 1554 01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,360 Speaker 1: go out with something you're like, wow, that was really horrible, 1555 01:19:02,479 --> 01:19:05,240 Speaker 1: or you know, you know, I have the shitty date jar. Yeah, 1556 01:19:05,280 --> 01:19:08,280 Speaker 1: I have at my house a jar of shitty dates 1557 01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,479 Speaker 1: and it is been such a bliss sing. You know 1558 01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:12,720 Speaker 1: what we should actually do is that me and you 1559 01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:16,840 Speaker 1: do a dating episode, because I do think that one 1560 01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:19,879 Speaker 1: there is a perception of like if you're a therapist 1561 01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:21,120 Speaker 1: and this is what you do when you help people. 1562 01:19:21,280 --> 01:19:24,479 Speaker 1: There's a perception that like we do everything right ourselves 1563 01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:27,400 Speaker 1: and I hate to say this, but we don't. Oh 1564 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,200 Speaker 1: my gosh, we don't. But I think it's interesting the 1565 01:19:30,240 --> 01:19:32,719 Speaker 1: way that we both have faced some of that. Yeah, 1566 01:19:32,800 --> 01:19:35,840 Speaker 1: And it's like, can you keep persevering because you have 1567 01:19:35,960 --> 01:19:38,519 Speaker 1: hope that something else is out there? Like I can't. 1568 01:19:38,560 --> 01:19:41,000 Speaker 1: If we go back to the dating, you know, yeah, 1569 01:19:41,080 --> 01:19:45,280 Speaker 1: I really probably did when I started intentionally. I mean, 1570 01:19:45,400 --> 01:19:47,040 Speaker 1: when we get to attachment, we can talk about my 1571 01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,439 Speaker 1: avoid of attachment style. So like I had to really 1572 01:19:49,560 --> 01:19:52,120 Speaker 1: like talk myself into going on dates, into dating because 1573 01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,599 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, life is good alone. And when 1574 01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,439 Speaker 1: I start thinking about all that I went through to 1575 01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,559 Speaker 1: meet Eric and to finally like get to that gold, 1576 01:20:01,600 --> 01:20:04,519 Speaker 1: I can't imagine like I would do it all over 1577 01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:08,479 Speaker 1: again times ten. I loved watching you move through that. Yeah, 1578 01:20:08,600 --> 01:20:10,479 Speaker 1: and then even when organized started dating, we could do 1579 01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,640 Speaker 1: a whole episode on that, just how hard it was 1580 01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:15,000 Speaker 1: in the beginning of like I don't know about this, 1581 01:20:15,120 --> 01:20:17,000 Speaker 1: I want to quit, but I stayed in it. And 1582 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,200 Speaker 1: it's like it's just it's almost scary to think about, 1583 01:20:20,280 --> 01:20:22,519 Speaker 1: like if I would have given up sooner and what 1584 01:20:22,640 --> 01:20:24,920 Speaker 1: I would have missed out on, which also goes back 1585 01:20:24,960 --> 01:20:27,720 Speaker 1: to people in therapy, like sometimes people quit when it 1586 01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:30,120 Speaker 1: gets hard, which is okay, but what kind of gifts 1587 01:20:30,160 --> 01:20:32,439 Speaker 1: around the other side if you stick with it and 1588 01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:36,000 Speaker 1: it's bound for Yeah, it's bound. I hope it gets hard, 1589 01:20:36,080 --> 01:20:38,240 Speaker 1: Like I hope you want to quit because I hope 1590 01:20:38,280 --> 01:20:42,120 Speaker 1: that like something is being touch that's uncomfortable. I hate 1591 01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,519 Speaker 1: to say this, but Megan has to get I have 1592 01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:50,040 Speaker 1: to go to my own therapy. Um. But I think 1593 01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:54,120 Speaker 1: this has been wonderful and we didn't even get to like, wow, 1594 01:20:54,160 --> 01:20:56,200 Speaker 1: we've like stopped your story kind of. I mean, you've 1595 01:20:56,200 --> 01:21:02,240 Speaker 1: become a therapist. Here you are and the fairy tales ended. Yeah, credits. Um, 1596 01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,120 Speaker 1: and now my life is happily ever after. She's perfect 1597 01:21:05,160 --> 01:21:09,040 Speaker 1: now by the way, perfect, she's engaged. There's no problems, right, Um, 1598 01:21:09,240 --> 01:21:12,760 Speaker 1: no problems. It is just amazing. You know, we never 1599 01:21:12,880 --> 01:21:16,880 Speaker 1: ever have any disagreement. Sweatings are great. Um. We did 1600 01:21:16,880 --> 01:21:18,600 Speaker 1: stop in the middle of all my addictions. But I 1601 01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,160 Speaker 1: do think I do think there is some room to say, 1602 01:21:21,320 --> 01:21:26,360 Speaker 1: like I do live a life of recovery, um, where 1603 01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:31,519 Speaker 1: those behaviors have stopped. Um. And can you say you 1604 01:21:31,560 --> 01:21:34,920 Speaker 1: do live a life of recovery in having that there 1605 01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:38,680 Speaker 1: are still places of struggle. Oh hell yeah. And just 1606 01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:42,240 Speaker 1: because you stop using behaviors doesn't mean all of the 1607 01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,200 Speaker 1: other stuff stops. I just want to say that because 1608 01:21:45,200 --> 01:21:48,320 Speaker 1: I do think sometimes we we see, well, they're not 1609 01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,120 Speaker 1: doing that anymore. So I'm sure everything's okay now, and 1610 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:53,519 Speaker 1: that speaks to the fact of why you're continuing to 1611 01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:57,360 Speaker 1: work on yourself. Yeah, getting sober in some ways, like 1612 01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,880 Speaker 1: just literally stopping drinking. I mean, I don't want to 1613 01:22:00,880 --> 01:22:03,639 Speaker 1: take any thing away from it. It was definitely hard. 1614 01:22:03,680 --> 01:22:05,840 Speaker 1: But when I think about that compared to some other 1615 01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,840 Speaker 1: behaviors or other things that I deal with, like that 1616 01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:11,880 Speaker 1: was easy, you know. And so I think also, like 1617 01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,519 Speaker 1: we've talked about this, like what sobriety is, Like I 1618 01:22:14,560 --> 01:22:17,600 Speaker 1: hardly ever think about sobriety, Like it's really important that 1619 01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,360 Speaker 1: I don't drink, and that is foundational to my recovery. 1620 01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:23,960 Speaker 1: But if all I'm doing is like not doing all 1621 01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:27,280 Speaker 1: these behaviors, then that doesn't mean that I'm anymore alive 1622 01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,559 Speaker 1: than somebody is. Is Like, if you ask me what 1623 01:22:29,600 --> 01:22:31,439 Speaker 1: it is to be alive, and I said, oh, somebody's 1624 01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:35,280 Speaker 1: breathing Okay, well, yeah, I mean technically, but that doesn't 1625 01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,040 Speaker 1: mean you're living a full life. And so i'd say 1626 01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:40,120 Speaker 1: the same thing. Like even for me, I hardly ever 1627 01:22:40,240 --> 01:22:42,360 Speaker 1: think about anymore like oh I don't drink, it's just 1628 01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:45,040 Speaker 1: like whatever, or I don't do this behavior, I don't 1629 01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,040 Speaker 1: do that behavior because yeah, there are things I need 1630 01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:49,880 Speaker 1: to not engage in, and there's things I need to 1631 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,599 Speaker 1: engage in. But I'm much more concerned with like being 1632 01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,920 Speaker 1: a recovered person, being like who I was fully made 1633 01:22:55,920 --> 01:22:58,800 Speaker 1: to be, and like living fully in that. Then I 1634 01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:02,680 Speaker 1: am about what behaviors I'm doing or not doing. I 1635 01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,479 Speaker 1: love that, so I want to in wrapping this up, 1636 01:23:05,520 --> 01:23:08,439 Speaker 1: I think that a good way to kind of like 1637 01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:13,080 Speaker 1: tie it all together is through this story that did 1638 01:23:13,120 --> 01:23:14,920 Speaker 1: I tell this to you? Or did you have you 1639 01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:20,040 Speaker 1: watched this um? Despite severely mispronouncing his name, I have 1640 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,439 Speaker 1: seen the um Ted talk, right, he has a bunch 1641 01:23:23,439 --> 01:23:24,840 Speaker 1: of stuff, but yet seen the Ted Talk. I don't 1642 01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:26,160 Speaker 1: know if he told the story in the Ted Talk, 1643 01:23:26,360 --> 01:23:29,519 Speaker 1: but I tell the story all of the time because 1644 01:23:29,640 --> 01:23:32,639 Speaker 1: I think that addiction it just gets a bad rap. 1645 01:23:32,680 --> 01:23:35,240 Speaker 1: In general. What I want everybody to know it's that's 1646 01:23:35,240 --> 01:23:37,559 Speaker 1: not about the behavior or the thing. And the way 1647 01:23:37,560 --> 01:23:40,040 Speaker 1: that I know that is there's this guy, um his 1648 01:23:40,120 --> 01:23:43,040 Speaker 1: name is Gabor Mate. He's a doctor and he does 1649 01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:44,479 Speaker 1: a lot of He wrote a book called In the 1650 01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:47,639 Speaker 1: Realm of Hungry Ghost. It's really good. But he uh 1651 01:23:47,960 --> 01:23:50,240 Speaker 1: was doing this talk and he was explaining like the 1652 01:23:50,240 --> 01:23:56,680 Speaker 1: psychosocial biopsychosocial model of addiction and UM basically he was 1653 01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:01,439 Speaker 1: working in a UM think it was a harm reduction clinic, 1654 01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:04,320 Speaker 1: which is a place where people go to do less 1655 01:24:04,320 --> 01:24:06,880 Speaker 1: of their behaviors and not get rid of them. And 1656 01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:10,520 Speaker 1: there was a lot of heroin addicts in this place specifically, 1657 01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:14,080 Speaker 1: and he went to one of them, UM and he 1658 01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,200 Speaker 1: describes this, which I think the description is important. He 1659 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:17,920 Speaker 1: describes the guys like big and tall and like I 1660 01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:19,800 Speaker 1: think he was old and maybe a tattoos or something. 1661 01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:21,559 Speaker 1: My picture in my head that I got was like 1662 01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:24,000 Speaker 1: a big bouncer at like a gym or club. And 1663 01:24:24,040 --> 01:24:27,320 Speaker 1: he asked him, I want to know what heroin does 1664 01:24:27,360 --> 01:24:29,280 Speaker 1: for you, Like I want to know what it does 1665 01:24:29,320 --> 01:24:31,080 Speaker 1: for you. We know this is could kill you. What 1666 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:34,240 Speaker 1: does this do for you? And the guy said, I 1667 01:24:34,280 --> 01:24:36,960 Speaker 1: don't know how to describe it other than have you 1668 01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,160 Speaker 1: ever been sick. I used to cry every time I 1669 01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:42,200 Speaker 1: told the story I used to be. Have you ever 1670 01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:45,679 Speaker 1: been sick? Your mom wraps you up in a blanket, 1671 01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:50,080 Speaker 1: sits you on her lap, and feeds you warm chicken 1672 01:24:50,120 --> 01:24:54,320 Speaker 1: noodle soup. That is what heroin feels like to me. 1673 01:24:56,000 --> 01:24:58,840 Speaker 1: And I don't know what you guys are thinking of that, 1674 01:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,960 Speaker 1: but what he made of that and what I make 1675 01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:03,679 Speaker 1: of that is like, that is the feeling of love 1676 01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:08,519 Speaker 1: and belongings. Yeah, like that is the feeling that like 1677 01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:11,840 Speaker 1: when your mom does that, It's like, that is unconditional love, 1678 01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,320 Speaker 1: and I belong somewhere and somebody wants to be with me, 1679 01:25:14,600 --> 01:25:17,599 Speaker 1: and that's what we're all searching for. And so like, yeah, 1680 01:25:17,680 --> 01:25:19,720 Speaker 1: your behaviors might not look like Megan's, and they might 1681 01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:21,280 Speaker 1: not look like mine, and they might not look like 1682 01:25:21,600 --> 01:25:23,720 Speaker 1: the person who's blacked out at the bar next to you, 1683 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,720 Speaker 1: But what are your behaviors moving? What are you trying 1684 01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,800 Speaker 1: to move towards? So it's not what are the behaviors 1685 01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:32,479 Speaker 1: or what am I? What am I doing wrong? It's 1686 01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:34,240 Speaker 1: like what am I trying to find? Or what am 1687 01:25:34,280 --> 01:25:36,760 Speaker 1: I trying to run from? Those are the questions we 1688 01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:39,479 Speaker 1: should be asking and I think that part of your 1689 01:25:39,520 --> 01:25:42,559 Speaker 1: story was you were trying, like that's what you were 1690 01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,040 Speaker 1: looking for. Those were the questions that you were going towards. 1691 01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:49,599 Speaker 1: So which is the question we're all going for? Right? 1692 01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:53,080 Speaker 1: Like if we think about even babies in an orphanage, 1693 01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:57,639 Speaker 1: um the failure to thrive syndrome, like they had the food, clothing, 1694 01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,599 Speaker 1: and shelter, and they weren't being touched and cared for, 1695 01:26:01,760 --> 01:26:05,600 Speaker 1: and the babies literally started dying. And so I was 1696 01:26:05,600 --> 01:26:07,479 Speaker 1: talking to somebody about this this week. Like when you 1697 01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,720 Speaker 1: think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, like the bottom rung 1698 01:26:10,800 --> 01:26:14,040 Speaker 1: being food, clothing, shelter, and water, whatever, there's a wrung 1699 01:26:14,479 --> 01:26:18,280 Speaker 1: completely underneath that of like love and belong What was 1700 01:26:18,320 --> 01:26:22,479 Speaker 1: I reading? I was reading something somewhere that said that 1701 01:26:22,520 --> 01:26:25,760 Speaker 1: people are starting to think that like physical touch and 1702 01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:29,000 Speaker 1: that it is more important than that the basic needs. Now, 1703 01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,439 Speaker 1: well there's the study too with the monkeys, um they 1704 01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:34,920 Speaker 1: what was I what was I reading? The wire monkey 1705 01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,519 Speaker 1: and the reading I don't know. I think that was 1706 01:26:37,520 --> 01:26:43,760 Speaker 1: in I don't know what, but anyway, but yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, 1707 01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:47,280 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with anybody. There's behaviors. Everybody probably needs 1708 01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,920 Speaker 1: to stop and what what you need therapy? Yeah, you 1709 01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:52,720 Speaker 1: need therapy. We're going to wrap it up there. It's 1710 01:26:52,760 --> 01:26:57,840 Speaker 1: the name of the podcastes by request. What do you 1711 01:26:57,840 --> 01:26:59,240 Speaker 1: want to get to come talk about? What do you 1712 01:26:59,280 --> 01:27:01,720 Speaker 1: want me to shut up and not talk about? Um? 1713 01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:04,280 Speaker 1: But okay, anyway, So Megan's a therapist, and so what 1714 01:27:04,360 --> 01:27:06,320 Speaker 1: do you want to give? A spot right here for 1715 01:27:06,360 --> 01:27:08,439 Speaker 1: you to tell people how to connect with you if 1716 01:27:08,479 --> 01:27:10,800 Speaker 1: you are loving what she is saying and you want 1717 01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,599 Speaker 1: to know more about her, how you can work with her, 1718 01:27:13,760 --> 01:27:16,040 Speaker 1: or how you can just get more of some of 1719 01:27:16,080 --> 01:27:19,800 Speaker 1: her good solid like little nuggets of truth. How can 1720 01:27:19,840 --> 01:27:22,960 Speaker 1: they find you? Yes? Best place to find me is 1721 01:27:23,200 --> 01:27:28,440 Speaker 1: probably my website www dot megan is it a Dasha 1722 01:27:28,800 --> 01:27:32,519 Speaker 1: Moyer m o I r dot com. Um. You can 1723 01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,439 Speaker 1: find out information there and then you can um there's 1724 01:27:35,439 --> 01:27:37,799 Speaker 1: a form if somebody wants to reach out and contact 1725 01:27:37,800 --> 01:27:40,960 Speaker 1: me for speaking or therapy or whatever. And then you 1726 01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:45,880 Speaker 1: can also check out my very subpar Instagram page which 1727 01:27:45,960 --> 01:27:50,799 Speaker 1: is also at Megan Moyer and it is a place 1728 01:27:50,840 --> 01:27:56,080 Speaker 1: where I write in frequently randomly. Oh shit, okay, I'm glad, 1729 01:27:56,680 --> 01:27:59,639 Speaker 1: but it's like ran every three weeks. I know. So 1730 01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,639 Speaker 1: am is my inspiration. Maybe one day I will get 1731 01:28:02,640 --> 01:28:06,599 Speaker 1: better at social media. It's just a hard balance between 1732 01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:09,400 Speaker 1: trying to stay off of social media and then also 1733 01:28:09,479 --> 01:28:12,240 Speaker 1: trying to actually produce something that's not like, Oh, here 1734 01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:15,640 Speaker 1: she is again. So either one of those things and 1735 01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:18,000 Speaker 1: then maybe on a new podcast that I may or 1736 01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:20,920 Speaker 1: may not start at some point in my life, and 1737 01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,240 Speaker 1: she'll be back here with it. I'll be back with Catherine. 1738 01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:28,839 Speaker 1: And if you ever want to run into her, she works. Yes, 1739 01:28:29,040 --> 01:28:34,560 Speaker 1: I worked in the same office, so in the same Um. Anyway, 1740 01:28:35,320 --> 01:28:39,240 Speaker 1: thank you, This just great. I want you more time. UM. 1741 01:28:39,280 --> 01:28:43,280 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'll see you guys at a later day, 1742 01:28:43,640 --> 01:28:46,599 Speaker 1: two weeks preferably. Megan will be back in one month. 1743 01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,759 Speaker 1: Um anyway, thank you. I hope you enjoy your therapy today. 1744 01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:57,720 Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, y'all, I 1745 01:28:57,760 --> 01:29:00,320 Speaker 1: told you she was great. There are so many parts 1746 01:29:00,320 --> 01:29:04,360 Speaker 1: of hearing her story that, honestly, every time I talked 1747 01:29:04,360 --> 01:29:06,920 Speaker 1: to her moves me in a direction of just feeling 1748 01:29:07,000 --> 01:29:09,920 Speaker 1: less alone. And I think something I really took as 1749 01:29:09,920 --> 01:29:13,160 Speaker 1: a reminder which I needed from this conversation was that 1750 01:29:13,200 --> 01:29:16,920 Speaker 1: we are all more of the same than we are different, 1751 01:29:17,160 --> 01:29:20,120 Speaker 1: and it's important to remember that now, our awareness of 1752 01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:23,880 Speaker 1: our behaviors that move us away from relationships and connectiveness 1753 01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:27,320 Speaker 1: and our true selves is what's different. Um. There's a 1754 01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,240 Speaker 1: lot of shame tied to being honest about our feelings, 1755 01:29:31,280 --> 01:29:34,360 Speaker 1: but what the real deal is is we're all just 1756 01:29:34,479 --> 01:29:37,840 Speaker 1: humans trying to find a way to access love and 1757 01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:41,680 Speaker 1: belonging through ourselves and other people. So I just want 1758 01:29:41,720 --> 01:29:44,720 Speaker 1: to say again, thank you Megan for having that conversation. 1759 01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:48,160 Speaker 1: I needed it, and I'm sure there's somebody out there 1760 01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:52,200 Speaker 1: that also needed it. You're great, You're wonderful. Um. If 1761 01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:54,200 Speaker 1: you loved hearing from Megan, let us know, and if 1762 01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:56,360 Speaker 1: you want to access her to help you out and 1763 01:29:56,439 --> 01:29:58,920 Speaker 1: to help you let go of whatever log you're holding onto, 1764 01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:02,519 Speaker 1: I to encourage you to do that, reach out to 1765 01:30:02,560 --> 01:30:06,759 Speaker 1: her for real. As always, please please please rate, comment, 1766 01:30:06,840 --> 01:30:10,840 Speaker 1: subscribe the to this. I know it sounds like silly, 1767 01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:13,000 Speaker 1: but it really takes two seconds and in the podcast 1768 01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:15,600 Speaker 1: world that actually is very helpful and it makes a 1769 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:18,320 Speaker 1: big difference in more ways than you know. As well. 1770 01:30:18,479 --> 01:30:21,200 Speaker 1: Please connect with me. You can follow me on Instagram 1771 01:30:21,240 --> 01:30:23,760 Speaker 1: at at three Chords Therapy, and you can learn more 1772 01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:29,880 Speaker 1: about my practice at www dot three chords therapy dot com. 1773 01:30:29,880 --> 01:30:32,960 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for hanging out with us today 1774 01:30:33,240 --> 01:30:36,360 Speaker 1: and I will talk to you very very soon.