WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Surcouf 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:03.600 Hey guys, Steve, here, you are listening to one of 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:06.600 our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:09.280 of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding 0:00:09.320 --> 0:00:11.639 a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:14.480 for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:18.040 remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.480 mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:23.880 all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:25.880 if you had listened to what we're calling the last 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:29.639 twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.160 music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.720 back to straight audio, So be warned. We sound a 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.040 little different today than we do in what you're about 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:47.160 to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't understand. 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:57.080 You never know stories of things. We simply don't know 0:00:57.160 --> 0:01:02.520 the answer too. Well. Hi, there, welcome to another episode 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:08.200 of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined by Steve and Den. Hey, 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:13.000 so here we are again for another hard hitting UM. Yeah. 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.480 So anyway, so okay, this is a little bit of 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.680 an unsolved mystery. There's UM. Today we're gonna talk about 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.080 the Circufe Cirkufe for those of you who don't know 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:29.000 about it, was a French submarine that disappeared supposedly in 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:32.800 the Caribbean, although some people argue differently, but the circuf 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.480 was a submarine that was built in France in the 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.720 late twenties early thirties. Said, no, excuse me. It was 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.080 built in the late twenties. It was launched in nine 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:45.640 nine and commissioned in nineteen thirty four into the French Navy. Um, 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.480 it was the largest sub ever built at that time. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.920 It's about sixty feet. It's about the same length as 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:57.160 the Los Angeles claud Los Angeles Class nuclear sub today. Um, 0:01:57.560 --> 0:01:59.600 do you have us a reference that is in a submarine? 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.640 Oh yeah, I say, well, we think it's longer than 0:02:02.680 --> 0:02:06.320 a football field. Okay, yeah, it's it's helpful. That's actually 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.080 very big. I mean, obviously we're building much bigger subs 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:12.560 these days. The biggest sub ever built was built by 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.000 the Russians was actually the Soviets, the Typhoon. It was 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.079 the sub that was in the hunt for Red October. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.960 Five hundred sixty ft long. Yeah, it's it's enormous and 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:25.960 and yeah, so that's the biggest one ever, not the 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.520 one that jumped. That's not the Red for Red October. 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.639 Yeah that was not. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know when 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:33.440 the Hunt forod October they come up for Ayer and 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:37.359 it's like they jumped and where that Yeah that was Yeah, 0:02:37.400 --> 0:02:40.120 that was a Los Angeles Class a lot smaller. So, 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:42.480 but but at that time it was a big honking 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.480 sub and it had to be big because it had 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:46.160 to do so much. I mean, it wasn't just doing 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.760 what ordinary substitute, which is go running torpedo ships. It 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.760 also had a big turret on the top of it 0:02:52.800 --> 0:02:55.120 in front of the conning tower that had two eight 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:58.120 inch guns in it, and so it was like basically 0:02:58.200 --> 0:02:59.799 kind of like a battleship and it was gonna say 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.160 eight each guns. Those are destroyers at the time had 0:03:02.200 --> 0:03:05.400 guns that were almost that size. Yeah yeah, yeah. And 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:08.360 so so it's it's like a ship that is also 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:12.760 a submarine or a submarine that can glide across the Yeah, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:15.520 it's like well back back in those days, really up 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.160 until the invagtion of the snorkel in the forties, most 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.800 most submarines were really designed and built to run on 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.680 the surface most of the time and just submerge when 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:26.960 controversy occurs, like saying, you know the aircraft, and the 0:03:26.960 --> 0:03:29.120 aircraft shows up and they wanted like torpedo you and 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.040 kill you, and so that's a good time to submerge. Maybe, Yeah, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.280 but they spent back in those days, they spent most 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.320 of their time in the surface. So anyway, besides the 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.600 besides having these big hawking guns in a turret in front, 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:44.520 they also had a hangar aft of the conning tower 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.880 that contained a floatplane. And obviously it was a skinny 0:03:47.880 --> 0:03:49.520 little hangar, so they had to pull the wings and 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:51.400 stuff off of this thing to get it stowed away. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.480 I can't imagine what a nuisance that would be. And 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.440 imagine imagine it's like, okay, guys get up on deck 0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:59.400 and pull that thing out and put it together. And 0:03:58.400 --> 0:04:02.440 they say, I don't remember how long it took, but 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.000 they were talking about in the research how long it 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:06.760 took for it to dive and how it made it 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:10.880 just like obscenely impractical for being able to make it 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.120 get away from anything. Yeah, you want to be able 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.080 to dive quickly, and it took like over two minutes 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:21.320 to dive. Take it tiny a little bit, Yeah, and yeah, 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:22.960 I was. I was trying to do a little research 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.720 on that because that is a long that is an 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:30.320 extended dive period, and I was wondering if perhaps it 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:34.720 lacked a negative tank, because typically diesel subs that we build, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.679 I don't know if it's the same for all countries 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.040 are not that we build ours with negative tanks. And 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:43.040 a negative tank is a tank that when you surface. Normally, 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.839 when you submerge, you blow the negative tank out, but 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:48.920 when you surface be filled up with water. The idea 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:50.920 of being as it gives you negative buoyancy. When it's 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.400 time to flood those tanks, it pulls you under quicker. Yeah, 0:04:54.480 --> 0:04:57.560 and uh, and so once you submerge and you blow 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:00.640 the negative listing. Perhaps lacked the negative tank, I don't know, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.160 or perhaps I've had a really kind of a pathetically 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:05.400 small one. You know, they were just busy like trying 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.040 to pull things in. And yeah, well I remember reading 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.840 about the sign when we're talking about how big it is, 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:14.599 and maybe this is why it didn't have an adequate tank. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:21.440 Is it had a area to hold forty prisoners. So 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:28.159 I mean that's had a brig which is huge on 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:30.880 a submarine. Oh yeah, well, I'm sure they were sure 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.120 they were stacked in there like cordwood. Still, that's a 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:36.840 lot of space, a lot of space on a submarine. Yeah, 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:38.479 I'm sure they probably made good use of it for 0:05:38.520 --> 0:05:43.080 storing food and stuff like that. Where French sailors after 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:44.760 watter all, so they had to have a wine cell. 0:05:45.000 --> 0:05:49.320 Why why did it have the airplane again, because I 0:05:49.360 --> 0:05:52.040 remember there was there was some specific reason that there 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.600 was a plane involved, because that's not what you're normally 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:57.400 happen to song. Uh. You know, actually back in those days, 0:05:57.440 --> 0:06:00.320 a lot of subs did carry floatplanes. It's not it 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:05.600 wasn't that unusual. But wouldn't they just use radar? Yeah, 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.880 they didn't have radar back in those days, and sonar 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:12.760 and sonar was not that well developed either, so you know, 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:15.719 in order to find targets, you know, like say ships 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.480 and stuff like that, they would launch their plane. The 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.000 plane would go buzz around and find something and then 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.920 come back and come back and tell I'm more radio back. 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.680 I guess it seems like just such a backwards way 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:29.599 to like be doing all this stuff right in that 0:06:29.640 --> 0:06:31.640 in between period where they're like, okay, we have to 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.480 be able to do these things. But we don't have 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:37.159 the technology, so I know, we'll just strap some guns 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:41.560 on it, trap a plane on it, and we'll just 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.840 see where it goes. It just seems so like a 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.240 like kind of just a bad idea that design. Yeah, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.479 I can't, you know, And I would imagine that in reality, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.080 the plane, for example, would probably not be pulled out 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.760 of the hangar very often. You can you imagine what 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.359 a what a huge news is it would be. And 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:02.800 you're very vulnerable if enemy aircraft do show up while 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.200 you're saying dismantling the plane, well, you're just gonna have 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.640 to like leave the plane die. Yeah, I mean they 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:11.920 were going to make I think this was the first 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:15.320 of seven of these that they were planning to make. 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.800 It they were, Yeah, the plan was to to build 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:21.040 a series of them, but this was the first one. 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.880 And they built this thing because the Washington Naval Treaty 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.760 placed limits on naval construction that submarines were admitted from that. 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:30.920 So they built this big honking thing, which is basically 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:34.040 they called it. They called it a submerged cruiser or something. 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:37.920 They called it an underwater cruiser, but basically, yeah, it 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.800 was a loophole. They were exploiting a loophole, said well, 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.760 if we can build this this thing that's kind of 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.040 like a frigate or a battleship or something like that, 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.560 but it's technically a submarine and totally totally what it is. 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.880 Right if the battleship, it can hardly submerge. It's just 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:55.240 like on a technicality, it has to. Okay, and the 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:58.360 flaw if when I was doing the reading on this 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.480 is the flaw is okay. Well it's gigantic, which is awesome. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:05.679 We've got the giant subs, the biggest one ever made, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:10.560 and it's got these massive guns. But because they were 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.760 on a sub which doesn't sit the high hut of water, 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:16.560 these guns were supposed to be able to shoot I 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.600 believe it's fifteen miles. That's an eight inch gun could shoot. 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.480 Max ranged on the on these guns was twenty four miles, 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.840 but unfortunately they were not able to see twenty four miles, right, 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:28.560 so they could only shoot I think it was eight 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.560 or ten or something. Yeah, depend yeah, they had they 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:35.600 had like a station where they could sight from the 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.920 top of the conning tower and and that gave them 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.079 a range of I believe eight miles and then if 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:43.400 they used the periscopes, they could get a little higher 0:08:43.480 --> 0:08:45.960 up and say, can see further away. That gave them 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:53.920 a range of about ten miles the periscope. And then 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:55.920 but if there, if they wanted to go to max range, 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:59.320 they could launch the floatplane and then the floor plane 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.760 could actually could actually you know, guide him in. Yeah, 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.720 it just it was. It was again, it's an awkward 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.840 way to solve the problem. Well we don't have this, 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:10.640 so we'll do that. And well we don't have that, 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.440 so let's just try this. It just seemed cobbled together. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.319 And it's like and this is this is possibly apparently 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:19.160 it was. It looks to me, I mean, if you 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:21.200 look at the thing, if you look at pictures of 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:25.400 it, it it looks really top heavy for submarine. And they 0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.079 were talking that was talking about it behaving very badly 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.320 in rough seas, rolling really badly, and that could be 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.560 one clue to the mystery. The whole thing is as 0:09:33.559 --> 0:09:35.320 to what happened to it. Is like, then we'll get 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.080 into the theories about what happened to it. But I'm 0:09:38.120 --> 0:09:40.560 thinking it's quite possible that if they just tried to 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.920 submerge in rough seas, I was, like, you noticed earlier, 0:09:43.960 --> 0:09:47.079 I had my old submarine manual out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:09:47.120 --> 0:09:49.360 I warted to confirm something that that I remembered from 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:52.960 reading it long long ago. But apparently submersion of a submarine, 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.360 center of gravity and the center of buoyancy cross one another. 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:00.560 So essentially, when you're on the surface, your center of 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.320 gravity is above the center of buoyancy, and then as 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.000 you submerge, the center of buoyancy moves up. If you 0:10:06.000 --> 0:10:09.400 can imagine a line moving vertically through the submarine, and 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.520 eventually it winds up. Center buoyancy wants up above the 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.200 center of gravity. But at that point where the two 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:20.160 points meet, the submarine becomes very unstable. So because it's 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.360 just like a roly poly, right, yeah, yeah, it's not 0:10:23.400 --> 0:10:25.400 like a surface ship where you know, if you if 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:27.440 you list to one side, it sets up a writing 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.600 arm and tends to push you back. It's not like that. 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.320 And so that's even a possibility that possibly, and I'm 0:10:34.320 --> 0:10:37.600 getting get ahead of myself, because but what the hell, Well, 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.520 it's it's all in the size and the build of 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.720 this thing, So it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, so I 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.840 could see, I could see the possibility where it's just 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.720 bad luck. You know, they're they're submerging in rough seas 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:50.600 and they hit that point of instability and then hit 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.719 they get hit by a big wave. And and I 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:55.560 don't know if you guys looked at any pictures or 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:59.400 diagrams of the SUBMODT. Yeah, yeah, the eight inch guns 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:03.000 are fed this vertical magazine and the ammunition is stored 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:06.640 at the lowest deck of the submarine. And so that's yeah, 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:09.800 it's like and so I'm sure that formed part of 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:11.640 the ballast of it putting all that, because you know 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.960 that that eight h ammo has got away a ton. Yeah, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:18.040 those are big. Yeah, So that's kind of my kind 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.880 of something I was curious about. It's like, you know, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.760 they obviously weren't able to replenish. They were were actually 0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.199 out doing stuff, shooting and shooting at things and stuff 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:28.000 like that, using up their ammo. And I don't think 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:29.920 they had a supply line back to France, which was 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:33.080 occupied by the Germans by this time. So what happened 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.840 down there? Did they did they think to put counterbalancing 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.200 weights down there or did they have trim tank second, 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.120 so it might not have had the weight that they 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:45.720 were expecting. Yeah, counters that sense. Yeah, but anyway, I'm 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:49.000 getting ahead of myself though. Okay, So anyway, so we 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.320 talked about the issues that she had. She rolled, she 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:53.520 rolled badly in rough seas and took a long time 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:55.679 to dive. So back to the history of the ship 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:57.839 a little bit. So she served in the French Navy, 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:02.000 but the Germans invaded France in May nineteen forty the Seracuf. 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.880 Hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, all of our French listeners 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:11.119 right in her call. Yeah, she was in Breast being refitted. 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:12.760 And I don't know where Breast is, but I assume 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.360 it's on the coast of France. She uh, So at 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:18.480 that point she she's left and went to England and 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:22.120 stayed there being refitted in Plymouth, England. And then in 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:26.560 July the Brits launched an operation called Operation Catapult. And 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:28.880 I'm not going to go to all the specifics of Catapult. 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:31.080 I had to do with a lot of French ships 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.959 being either either coming up to our side or being scuttled. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.520 But in the part the phase that affected the Circouf 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.840 is that all French ships that were in port in 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:44.079 Britain and also in Canada were boarded by our marines 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.360 and basically the crews were taken off them and most 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.000 of them were repatriated to France. And then the idea 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.040 was that these ships and submarines whatever, we're gonna be 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.720 turned over the Free French Navy under you know, you know, 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:00.280 the free French guys, remember Charles de gall and all stuff. 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.000 And I'm guessing the idea of however misguided here was 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:09.280 that if there's any French who are on the ship 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.319 who have been turned by the Germans for whatever reason, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.560 that you get them off so that the ship doesn't 0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:19.960 become a threat to you while your quote unquote using 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:23.319 it in your service. Yeah, i'd be a correct assumption. Yeah, 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:25.920 and so yeah, the French, So the French, after the 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:29.120 Germans took over, the VC government formed and they were 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.920 basically kind of what's what's the word, I'm thinking of 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:35.440 the puppet government of the Germans. And so, you know, 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.080 the question was for these sailors, who where where did 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.959 their loyalties lie? And so they just decided to take 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:44.240 them all the ships and you know, send them back 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:46.280 to France and then uh, and then they turned them 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.280 over to the Free French nagers. I love that that's 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:50.840 like one of my favorite stories in history. Right, we 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:53.800 couldn't trust some of you, so we're going to condemn 0:13:53.880 --> 0:14:00.000 all of you and just take all your stuff. Yeah yeah, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.840 good luck to be found. And actually, uh and actually 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.679 this is kind of sad, but most almost the entire 0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:09.120 crew the Seracouf was was sent back to France on 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:12.840 on a hospital ship, which was unfortunately torpedoed and sunk 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.600 by the Germans. Yeah yeah, and so that that costs 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.960 that cost a little bit of bitterness, yeah, I know. 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:22.200 And the other thing that costs a little bitterness is 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.320 that actually the Seracouf saw during the during Operation Catapult, 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:29.480 actually saw a little bit of gunplay on the sub 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:33.400 and three Brits and one French sailor were killed during 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:35.600 the boarding of this which again caused a little bit 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:40.000 of bitterness. Um. In August ninety they the Brits completed 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.480 the refit of the ship and then turned her over 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:44.720 to the Free French Navy for convoy patrol. You know, 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.480 as you know, there was a lot of convoy going 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.640 going on between America and Britain and also America and Russia, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:58.200 and so yeahly so convoys convoy escorts were kind of necessary. 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:00.560 There was only one officer who had I've been sent 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:04.200 back to France to be torpedoed and killed by the Germans, 0:15:04.200 --> 0:15:08.640 and that was Commander George Louis Blaison. I think I 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:13.120 don't know that. Yeah, So he became the new commanding officer, 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:15.880 and then and then a bunch of French sailors for 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.040 the Free French Navy were put on board and she 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.840 was assigned to convoy patrol. And uh. But at the 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:23.840 same time there was still a bit of an atmospode 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:27.240 of distrust between the Brits and the French. Okay, so 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.040 hang on, before we go any farther, I've already seen 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.920 a giant issue here, which is she had been running 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.320 for a year or so with a crew that had 0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.760 learned and knew about the ship. And then they're all 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:44.360 jettisoned off of this ship and an entirely new crew 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.480 is put on and she's put back out to sea. Yeah, 0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.800 and that's with a bunch of guys you don't know 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:53.120 how exactly to do everything, especially since she's like so 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:57.120 problem right and right, I mean she is prone to toppling, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:16:00.960 she's all these little Yeah, so ring is a complex 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:05.000 machines too, you know. And and and I'm assuming you know 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:07.560 that at least a strong percentage of these people have 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:11.600 served on submarines before and had had some clue what 0:16:11.640 --> 0:16:15.400 they were doing. You gotta hope, you gotta hope again 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.680 if this is this is a one of a kind 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:22.040 sub she was the only one of her design that 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:25.520 was ever built, which means that every ship has its 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.880 own idiosyncrasies. I got to know how to deal with them. 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:31.360 So if you've got guys who oh yeah, you gotta 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.560 do this, you gotta do that. But suddenly they're all gone, 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:36.200 you don't know what to do. You don't know if 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.520 you're doing something right or wrong, which can make you know, 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:43.920 for a catastrophic situation, even in like the most perfect submarine. 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.400 Uh yeah. And and this one had another problem too, 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:50.720 which was that it was in Britain, and obviously if 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.520 they needed spare parts, well, you know, I'm sorry French, 0:16:53.560 --> 0:16:56.920 they're back in France, which is occupied by the Germans, right, 0:16:57.040 --> 0:16:59.080 so you know, you gotta like, you gotta. They're not 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.640 gonna obviously set up a whole manufacturing infrastructure to make 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.399 parts for this thing, for one, So we're saying it's 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:09.399 even more cobbled together at this point, right, repairs that 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.840 are being done all yeah, well, I'm sure that there's 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.920 a lot of pieces and parts that could be could 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:17.520 be made made from scratched by a qualified machinists and 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.880 stuff like that, but it would be time consuming. Also, 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.639 this is the war, like yeah, yeah, I say, in 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:25.520 a sense, it's kind it's kind of like a mystery 0:17:25.520 --> 0:17:28.639 why they even processing in a service. Um it seemed 0:17:28.640 --> 0:17:31.399 like an accident waiting to happen. So but anyway, there 0:17:31.440 --> 0:17:33.359 was still at a little bit of tension there. They 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:35.840 had a new commanding officer and a new crew. There 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:39.520 were accusations made that people on the sub we're spying 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.639 for vit friends. The Brits apparently also claimed that this 0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.800 so coop was attacking British ships because when you think 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:47.639 about it, when you were in a convoy in the 0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:50.879 North Atlantic, then you know, and the convoys are kind 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:54.159 of spread out, and so it would actually not be 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:56.280 that tough if you're like one of the one of 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.159 the escorts to just go ahead and sink one of 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:01.119 these merchant ships. Yeah, you could do that, wouldn't be 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:02.840 that duck. You could just sink a merchant ship, you know, 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:04.840 and it's like, hey, what happened? I don't know. The 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.720 Germans must have got him, yeah, but I got everybody. 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:11.240 Everybody on board would have to be on board with that. Yeah. 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:14.360 So the Brits actually actually, as part of this, they 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.919 stationed a British officer and two sailors on board, supposedly 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:21.199 to be liaisons, but more likely just to keep an 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.640 eye on them and make sure that nothing like this happened. 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:27.439 So anyways, the Cirkufa went to Halifax, Nova, Scotia and 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:33.159 basically escorted Transatlantic convoys until one which was damaged by 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.160 a German plane, and then went to the US Naval 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.120 shipyard of Portsmith, New Hampshire for a refit, and then 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.760 went to the New London, Connecticut, and then went back 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:46.080 to Halifax, neb All. What happened is Pearl Harbor. Yeah, yeah, 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:49.520 Pearl Harbor. So they decided to send the circuf to 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.679 the Pacific Theater, and so she was given orders to 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.439 sail to Sydney, Australia, the Via Bermuda and Tahiti and 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.280 the Panama Canal and all that stuff. So she was 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:00.320 gonna have a neat little tour and I could just 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.719 imagine that, you know, I I've read conflicting stuff. According 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.320 to some accounts that I've read about this, at the 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:08.200 time that she set out to make this voyage, she 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.719 only had one functioning engine. Yeah, I know, And I 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:13.520 can't believe that. I cannot believe they would have put 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.440 her to sea for that voyage like that with one 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.760 function So I am taking that with a grain of salt. 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:23.480 Although I guess it wouldn't be so surprising given that, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.600 you know, nobody really could get their hands on the 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.200 correct parts. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, it's like, yeah, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.040 but it seems to me rather dangerous to send the 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.800 ship to sea with only one functioning Yeah, although I 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.560 guess you say, you know, you kind of had your 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.560 bet at that point, right, you say, well, you've only 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.639 got one functioning engine, but it would take us like 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.639 five years to actually get the parts we need in 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:49.680 every fabricade or whatever, you know, or yeah, yeah, but 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:56.040 you know, there's what fairly disposable dudes on this ship 0:19:56.320 --> 0:20:00.919 also like pretty disposable, So I oh, yeah, you know, 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.240 either they make it and they're helpful or they don't, 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:07.520 but we tried. Yeah, I and I I really think 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.600 the proper course of action for this ship would have 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.199 been to like runner not too not too far distances 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.679 or very long until that second engine craps out and 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:18.840 then just scrap it and use that steal to build 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.239 you know, other stuff on the battleships or something like that, 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.040 or just scrap it. Yeah, that would have been that too. Yeah, 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:26.640 that just doesn't make any sense. It would be as 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:29.919 if I were going to take a you know, a 0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.160 road trip in my car, but I only got first 0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.719 and second Geary. I mean that, that's essentially it. I'm 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.280 gonna drive a thousand miles, but it's gonna take me 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.840 weeks because my mac speed is you know, twenty miles 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.200 an hour. It's just it's foolish. Yeah. Do nobody in 0:20:47.280 --> 0:20:49.560 good conscience would do that? Yeah, it is, you know. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:52.680 And and frankly, this thing was designed with an inadequate 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.840 inadequate number of engines anyway. Um, and that probably gets 0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:57.480 back to things like, you know, if you're gonna have 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.800 a big, big tour in the floatplane and a big 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:02.840