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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Steve, here, you are listening to one of

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Speaker 1: our original twenty six episodes. If you listen to any

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Speaker 1: of our new episodes, you're gonna notice that we're sounding

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Speaker 1: a little different in these ones. Yeah, there's a reason

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Speaker 1: for that. There is they've been remastered. They have been

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Speaker 1: remastered because they had a really annoying hum. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: mean a huge thanks to listener James for doing almost

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Speaker 1: all of the legwork on this thing. They'll also notice

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Speaker 1: if you had listened to what we're calling the last

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Speaker 1: twenty six episodes before and you're re listening now, the

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Speaker 1: music and sound effects are gone. Yes, we've we've gone

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Speaker 1: back to straight audio, So be warned. We sound a

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Speaker 1: little different today than we do in what you're about

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Speaker 1: to listen to. Yeah, bye bye, Thinking Sideways. I don't understand.

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Speaker 1: You never know stories of things. We simply don't know

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Speaker 1: the answer too. Well. Hi, there, welcome to another episode

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Speaker 1: of Thinking Sideways. I'm Joe, joined by Steve and Den. Hey,

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Speaker 1: so here we are again for another hard hitting UM. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, so okay, this is a little bit of

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Speaker 1: an unsolved mystery. There's UM. Today we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: the Circufe Cirkufe for those of you who don't know

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Speaker 1: about it, was a French submarine that disappeared supposedly in

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Speaker 1: the Caribbean, although some people argue differently, but the circuf

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Speaker 1: was a submarine that was built in France in the

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Speaker 1: late twenties early thirties. Said, no, excuse me. It was

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Speaker 1: built in the late twenties. It was launched in nine

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Speaker 1: nine and commissioned in nineteen thirty four into the French Navy. Um,

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Speaker 1: it was the largest sub ever built at that time.

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Speaker 1: It's about sixty feet. It's about the same length as

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Speaker 1: the Los Angeles claud Los Angeles Class nuclear sub today. Um,

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Speaker 1: do you have us a reference that is in a submarine?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I say, well, we think it's longer than

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Speaker 1: a football field. Okay, yeah, it's it's helpful. That's actually

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Speaker 1: very big. I mean, obviously we're building much bigger subs

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Speaker 1: these days. The biggest sub ever built was built by

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Speaker 1: the Russians was actually the Soviets, the Typhoon. It was

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Speaker 1: the sub that was in the hunt for Red October.

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Speaker 1: Five hundred sixty ft long. Yeah, it's it's enormous and

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Speaker 1: and yeah, so that's the biggest one ever, not the

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Speaker 1: one that jumped. That's not the Red for Red October.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that was not. Yeah yeah, yeah, you know when

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Speaker 1: the Hunt forod October they come up for Ayer and

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Speaker 1: it's like they jumped and where that Yeah that was Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a Los Angeles Class a lot smaller. So,

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Speaker 1: but but at that time it was a big honking

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Speaker 1: sub and it had to be big because it had

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Speaker 1: to do so much. I mean, it wasn't just doing

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Speaker 1: what ordinary substitute, which is go running torpedo ships. It

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Speaker 1: also had a big turret on the top of it

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Speaker 1: in front of the conning tower that had two eight

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Speaker 1: inch guns in it, and so it was like basically

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Speaker 1: kind of like a battleship and it was gonna say

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Speaker 1: eight each guns. Those are destroyers at the time had

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Speaker 1: guns that were almost that size. Yeah yeah, yeah. And

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Speaker 1: so so it's it's like a ship that is also

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Speaker 1: a submarine or a submarine that can glide across the Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like well back back in those days, really up

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Speaker 1: until the invagtion of the snorkel in the forties, most

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Speaker 1: most submarines were really designed and built to run on

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Speaker 1: the surface most of the time and just submerge when

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Speaker 1: controversy occurs, like saying, you know the aircraft, and the

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Speaker 1: aircraft shows up and they wanted like torpedo you and

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Speaker 1: kill you, and so that's a good time to submerge. Maybe, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but they spent back in those days, they spent most

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Speaker 1: of their time in the surface. So anyway, besides the

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Speaker 1: besides having these big hawking guns in a turret in front,

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Speaker 1: they also had a hangar aft of the conning tower

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Speaker 1: that contained a floatplane. And obviously it was a skinny

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Speaker 1: little hangar, so they had to pull the wings and

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Speaker 1: stuff off of this thing to get it stowed away.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what a nuisance that would be. And

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Speaker 1: imagine imagine it's like, okay, guys get up on deck

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Speaker 1: and pull that thing out and put it together. And

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Speaker 1: they say, I don't remember how long it took, but

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Speaker 1: they were talking about in the research how long it

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Speaker 1: took for it to dive and how it made it

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Speaker 1: just like obscenely impractical for being able to make it

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Speaker 1: get away from anything. Yeah, you want to be able

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Speaker 1: to dive quickly, and it took like over two minutes

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Speaker 1: to dive. Take it tiny a little bit, Yeah, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was. I was trying to do a little research

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Speaker 1: on that because that is a long that is an

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Speaker 1: extended dive period, and I was wondering if perhaps it

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Speaker 1: lacked a negative tank, because typically diesel subs that we build,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the same for all countries

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Speaker 1: are not that we build ours with negative tanks. And

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Speaker 1: a negative tank is a tank that when you surface. Normally,

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Speaker 1: when you submerge, you blow the negative tank out, but

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Speaker 1: when you surface be filled up with water. The idea

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Speaker 1: of being as it gives you negative buoyancy. When it's

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Speaker 1: time to flood those tanks, it pulls you under quicker. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh, and so once you submerge and you blow

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Speaker 1: the negative listing. Perhaps lacked the negative tank, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: or perhaps I've had a really kind of a pathetically

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Speaker 1: small one. You know, they were just busy like trying

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Speaker 1: to pull things in. And yeah, well I remember reading

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Speaker 1: about the sign when we're talking about how big it is,

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Speaker 1: and maybe this is why it didn't have an adequate tank.

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Speaker 1: Is it had a area to hold forty prisoners. So

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Speaker 1: I mean that's had a brig which is huge on

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Speaker 1: a submarine. Oh yeah, well, I'm sure they were sure

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Speaker 1: they were stacked in there like cordwood. Still, that's a

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Speaker 1: lot of space, a lot of space on a submarine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure they probably made good use of it for

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Speaker 1: storing food and stuff like that. Where French sailors after

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Speaker 1: watter all, so they had to have a wine cell.

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Speaker 1: Why why did it have the airplane again, because I

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Speaker 1: remember there was there was some specific reason that there

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Speaker 1: was a plane involved, because that's not what you're normally

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Speaker 1: happen to song. Uh. You know, actually back in those days,

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Speaker 1: a lot of subs did carry floatplanes. It's not it

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Speaker 1: wasn't that unusual. But wouldn't they just use radar? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have radar back in those days, and sonar

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Speaker 1: and sonar was not that well developed either, so you know,

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Speaker 1: in order to find targets, you know, like say ships

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, they would launch their plane. The

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Speaker 1: plane would go buzz around and find something and then

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Speaker 1: come back and come back and tell I'm more radio back.

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Speaker 1: I guess it seems like just such a backwards way

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Speaker 1: to like be doing all this stuff right in that

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Speaker 1: in between period where they're like, okay, we have to

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Speaker 1: be able to do these things. But we don't have

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Speaker 1: the technology, so I know, we'll just strap some guns

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Speaker 1: on it, trap a plane on it, and we'll just

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Speaker 1: see where it goes. It just seems so like a

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Speaker 1: like kind of just a bad idea that design. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't, you know, And I would imagine that in reality,

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Speaker 1: the plane, for example, would probably not be pulled out

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Speaker 1: of the hangar very often. You can you imagine what

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Speaker 1: a what a huge news is it would be. And

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Speaker 1: you're very vulnerable if enemy aircraft do show up while

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Speaker 1: you're saying dismantling the plane, well, you're just gonna have

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Speaker 1: to like leave the plane die. Yeah, I mean they

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Speaker 1: were going to make I think this was the first

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Speaker 1: of seven of these that they were planning to make.

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Speaker 1: It they were, Yeah, the plan was to to build

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Speaker 1: a series of them, but this was the first one.

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Speaker 1: And they built this thing because the Washington Naval Treaty

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Speaker 1: placed limits on naval construction that submarines were admitted from that.

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Speaker 1: So they built this big honking thing, which is basically

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Speaker 1: they called it. They called it a submerged cruiser or something.

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Speaker 1: They called it an underwater cruiser, but basically, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: was a loophole. They were exploiting a loophole, said well,

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Speaker 1: if we can build this this thing that's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a frigate or a battleship or something like that,

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Speaker 1: but it's technically a submarine and totally totally what it is.

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Speaker 1: Right if the battleship, it can hardly submerge. It's just

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Speaker 1: like on a technicality, it has to. Okay, and the

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Speaker 1: flaw if when I was doing the reading on this

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Speaker 1: is the flaw is okay. Well it's gigantic, which is awesome.

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Speaker 1: We've got the giant subs, the biggest one ever made,

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Speaker 1: and it's got these massive guns. But because they were

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Speaker 1: on a sub which doesn't sit the high hut of water,

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Speaker 1: these guns were supposed to be able to shoot I

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Speaker 1: believe it's fifteen miles. That's an eight inch gun could shoot.

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Speaker 1: Max ranged on the on these guns was twenty four miles,

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Speaker 1: but unfortunately they were not able to see twenty four miles, right,

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Speaker 1: so they could only shoot I think it was eight

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Speaker 1: or ten or something. Yeah, depend yeah, they had they

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Speaker 1: had like a station where they could sight from the

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Speaker 1: top of the conning tower and and that gave them

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Speaker 1: a range of I believe eight miles and then if

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Speaker 1: they used the periscopes, they could get a little higher

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Speaker 1: up and say, can see further away. That gave them

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Speaker 1: a range of about ten miles the periscope. And then

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Speaker 1: but if there, if they wanted to go to max range,

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Speaker 1: they could launch the floatplane and then the floor plane

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Speaker 1: could actually could actually you know, guide him in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just it was. It was again, it's an awkward

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Speaker 1: way to solve the problem. Well we don't have this,

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Speaker 1: so we'll do that. And well we don't have that,

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Speaker 1: so let's just try this. It just seemed cobbled together. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And it's like and this is this is possibly apparently

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Speaker 1: it was. It looks to me, I mean, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the thing, if you look at pictures of

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Speaker 1: it, it it looks really top heavy for submarine. And they

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Speaker 1: were talking that was talking about it behaving very badly

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Speaker 1: in rough seas, rolling really badly, and that could be

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Speaker 1: one clue to the mystery. The whole thing is as

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Speaker 1: to what happened to it. Is like, then we'll get

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Speaker 1: into the theories about what happened to it. But I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking it's quite possible that if they just tried to

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Speaker 1: submerge in rough seas, I was, like, you noticed earlier,

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Speaker 1: I had my old submarine manual out. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I warted to confirm something that that I remembered from

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Speaker 1: reading it long long ago. But apparently submersion of a submarine,

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Speaker 1: center of gravity and the center of buoyancy cross one another.

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Speaker 1: So essentially, when you're on the surface, your center of

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Speaker 1: gravity is above the center of buoyancy, and then as

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Speaker 1: you submerge, the center of buoyancy moves up. If you

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Speaker 1: can imagine a line moving vertically through the submarine, and

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Speaker 1: eventually it winds up. Center buoyancy wants up above the

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Speaker 1: center of gravity. But at that point where the two

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Speaker 1: points meet, the submarine becomes very unstable. So because it's

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Speaker 1: just like a roly poly, right, yeah, yeah, it's not

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Speaker 1: like a surface ship where you know, if you if

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Speaker 1: you list to one side, it sets up a writing

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Speaker 1: arm and tends to push you back. It's not like that.

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Speaker 1: And so that's even a possibility that possibly, and I'm

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Speaker 1: getting get ahead of myself, because but what the hell, Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's all in the size and the build of

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Speaker 1: this thing, So it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, so I

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Speaker 1: could see, I could see the possibility where it's just

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Speaker 1: bad luck. You know, they're they're submerging in rough seas

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Speaker 1: and they hit that point of instability and then hit

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Speaker 1: they get hit by a big wave. And and I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you guys looked at any pictures or

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Speaker 1: diagrams of the SUBMODT. Yeah, yeah, the eight inch guns

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Speaker 1: are fed this vertical magazine and the ammunition is stored

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Speaker 1: at the lowest deck of the submarine. And so that's yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like and so I'm sure that formed part of

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Speaker 1: the ballast of it putting all that, because you know

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Speaker 1: that that eight h ammo has got away a ton. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are big. Yeah, So that's kind of my kind

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Speaker 1: of something I was curious about. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: they obviously weren't able to replenish. They were were actually

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Speaker 1: out doing stuff, shooting and shooting at things and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that, using up their ammo. And I don't think

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Speaker 1: they had a supply line back to France, which was

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Speaker 1: occupied by the Germans by this time. So what happened

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Speaker 1: down there? Did they did they think to put counterbalancing

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Speaker 1: weights down there or did they have trim tank second,

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Speaker 1: so it might not have had the weight that they

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Speaker 1: were expecting. Yeah, counters that sense. Yeah, but anyway, I'm

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Speaker 1: getting ahead of myself though. Okay, So anyway, so we

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Speaker 1: talked about the issues that she had. She rolled, she

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Speaker 1: rolled badly in rough seas and took a long time

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Speaker 1: to dive. So back to the history of the ship

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Speaker 1: a little bit. So she served in the French Navy,

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Speaker 1: but the Germans invaded France in May nineteen forty the Seracuf.

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Speaker 1: Hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, all of our French listeners

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Speaker 1: right in her call. Yeah, she was in Breast being refitted.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know where Breast is, but I assume

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Speaker 1: it's on the coast of France. She uh, So at

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Speaker 1: that point she she's left and went to England and

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Speaker 1: stayed there being refitted in Plymouth, England. And then in

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Speaker 1: July the Brits launched an operation called Operation Catapult. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to go to all the specifics of Catapult.

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Speaker 1: I had to do with a lot of French ships

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Speaker 1: being either either coming up to our side or being scuttled.

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Speaker 1: But in the part the phase that affected the Circouf

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Speaker 1: is that all French ships that were in port in

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Speaker 1: Britain and also in Canada were boarded by our marines

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Speaker 1: and basically the crews were taken off them and most

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Speaker 1: of them were repatriated to France. And then the idea

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Speaker 1: was that these ships and submarines whatever, we're gonna be

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Speaker 1: turned over the Free French Navy under you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: the free French guys, remember Charles de gall and all stuff.

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Speaker 1: And I'm guessing the idea of however misguided here was

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Speaker 1: that if there's any French who are on the ship

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Speaker 1: who have been turned by the Germans for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: that you get them off so that the ship doesn't

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Speaker 1: become a threat to you while your quote unquote using

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Speaker 1: it in your service. Yeah, i'd be a correct assumption. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so yeah, the French, So the French, after the

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Speaker 1: Germans took over, the VC government formed and they were

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Speaker 1: basically kind of what's what's the word, I'm thinking of

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Speaker 1: the puppet government of the Germans. And so, you know,

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Speaker 1: the question was for these sailors, who where where did

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Speaker 1: their loyalties lie? And so they just decided to take

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Speaker 1: them all the ships and you know, send them back

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Speaker 1: to France and then uh, and then they turned them

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Speaker 1: over to the Free French nagers. I love that that's

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Speaker 1: like one of my favorite stories in history. Right, we

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Speaker 1: couldn't trust some of you, so we're going to condemn

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Speaker 1: all of you and just take all your stuff. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: good luck to be found. And actually, uh and actually

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Speaker 1: this is kind of sad, but most almost the entire

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Speaker 1: crew the Seracouf was was sent back to France on

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Speaker 1: on a hospital ship, which was unfortunately torpedoed and sunk

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Speaker 1: by the Germans. Yeah yeah, and so that that costs

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Speaker 1: that cost a little bit of bitterness, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing that costs a little bitterness is

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Speaker 1: that actually the Seracouf saw during the during Operation Catapult,

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Speaker 1: actually saw a little bit of gunplay on the sub

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Speaker 1: and three Brits and one French sailor were killed during

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Speaker 1: the boarding of this which again caused a little bit

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Speaker 1: of bitterness. Um. In August ninety they the Brits completed

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Speaker 1: the refit of the ship and then turned her over

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Speaker 1: to the Free French Navy for convoy patrol. You know,

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Speaker 1: as you know, there was a lot of convoy going

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Speaker 1: going on between America and Britain and also America and Russia,

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Speaker 1: and so yeahly so convoys convoy escorts were kind of necessary.

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Speaker 1: There was only one officer who had I've been sent

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Speaker 1: back to France to be torpedoed and killed by the Germans,

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Speaker 1: and that was Commander George Louis Blaison. I think I

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Speaker 1: don't know that. Yeah, So he became the new commanding officer,

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Speaker 1: and then and then a bunch of French sailors for

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Speaker 1: the Free French Navy were put on board and she

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Speaker 1: was assigned to convoy patrol. And uh. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time there was still a bit of an atmospode

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Speaker 1: of distrust between the Brits and the French. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: hang on, before we go any farther, I've already seen

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Speaker 1: a giant issue here, which is she had been running

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Speaker 1: for a year or so with a crew that had

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Speaker 1: learned and knew about the ship. And then they're all

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Speaker 1: jettisoned off of this ship and an entirely new crew

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Speaker 1: is put on and she's put back out to sea. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and that's with a bunch of guys you don't know

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Speaker 1: how exactly to do everything, especially since she's like so

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Speaker 1: problem right and right, I mean she is prone to toppling,

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Speaker 1: she's all these little Yeah, so ring is a complex

303
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Speaker 1: machines too, you know. And and and I'm assuming you know

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Speaker 1: that at least a strong percentage of these people have

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Speaker 1: served on submarines before and had had some clue what

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00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,400
Speaker 1: they were doing. You gotta hope, you gotta hope again

307
00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,680
Speaker 1: if this is this is a one of a kind

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Speaker 1: sub she was the only one of her design that

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Speaker 1: was ever built, which means that every ship has its

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Speaker 1: own idiosyncrasies. I got to know how to deal with them.

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Speaker 1: So if you've got guys who oh yeah, you gotta

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Speaker 1: do this, you gotta do that. But suddenly they're all gone,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what to do. You don't know if

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00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:39,520
Speaker 1: you're doing something right or wrong, which can make you know,

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00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 1: for a catastrophic situation, even in like the most perfect submarine.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah. And and this one had another problem too,

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Speaker 1: which was that it was in Britain, and obviously if

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Speaker 1: they needed spare parts, well, you know, I'm sorry French,

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Speaker 1: they're back in France, which is occupied by the Germans, right,

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Speaker 1: so you know, you gotta like, you gotta. They're not

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Speaker 1: gonna obviously set up a whole manufacturing infrastructure to make

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Speaker 1: parts for this thing, for one, So we're saying it's

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Speaker 1: even more cobbled together at this point, right, repairs that

324
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 1: are being done all yeah, well, I'm sure that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of pieces and parts that could be could

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Speaker 1: be made made from scratched by a qualified machinists and

327
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Speaker 1: stuff like that, but it would be time consuming. Also,

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Speaker 1: this is the war, like yeah, yeah, I say, in

329
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Speaker 1: a sense, it's kind it's kind of like a mystery

330
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Speaker 1: why they even processing in a service. Um it seemed

331
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Speaker 1: like an accident waiting to happen. So but anyway, there

332
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Speaker 1: was still at a little bit of tension there. They

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Speaker 1: had a new commanding officer and a new crew. There

334
00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 1: were accusations made that people on the sub we're spying

335
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Speaker 1: for vit friends. The Brits apparently also claimed that this

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00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,800
Speaker 1: so coop was attacking British ships because when you think

337
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Speaker 1: about it, when you were in a convoy in the

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Speaker 1: North Atlantic, then you know, and the convoys are kind

339
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 1: of spread out, and so it would actually not be

340
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Speaker 1: that tough if you're like one of the one of

341
00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,159
Speaker 1: the escorts to just go ahead and sink one of

342
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Speaker 1: these merchant ships. Yeah, you could do that, wouldn't be

343
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Speaker 1: that duck. You could just sink a merchant ship, you know,

344
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Speaker 1: and it's like, hey, what happened? I don't know. The

345
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:07,720
Speaker 1: Germans must have got him, yeah, but I got everybody.

346
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Speaker 1: Everybody on board would have to be on board with that. Yeah.

347
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Speaker 1: So the Brits actually actually, as part of this, they

348
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Speaker 1: stationed a British officer and two sailors on board, supposedly

349
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Speaker 1: to be liaisons, but more likely just to keep an

350
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Speaker 1: eye on them and make sure that nothing like this happened.

351
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Speaker 1: So anyways, the Cirkufa went to Halifax, Nova, Scotia and

352
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Speaker 1: basically escorted Transatlantic convoys until one which was damaged by

353
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Speaker 1: a German plane, and then went to the US Naval

354
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Speaker 1: shipyard of Portsmith, New Hampshire for a refit, and then

355
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Speaker 1: went to the New London, Connecticut, and then went back

356
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Speaker 1: to Halifax, neb All. What happened is Pearl Harbor. Yeah, yeah,

357
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Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor. So they decided to send the circuf to

358
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Speaker 1: the Pacific Theater, and so she was given orders to

359
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Speaker 1: sail to Sydney, Australia, the Via Bermuda and Tahiti and

360
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Speaker 1: the Panama Canal and all that stuff. So she was

361
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Speaker 1: gonna have a neat little tour and I could just

362
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Speaker 1: imagine that, you know, I I've read conflicting stuff. According

363
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Speaker 1: to some accounts that I've read about this, at the

364
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Speaker 1: time that she set out to make this voyage, she

365
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,719
Speaker 1: only had one functioning engine. Yeah, I know, And I

366
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Speaker 1: can't believe that. I cannot believe they would have put

367
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Speaker 1: her to sea for that voyage like that with one

368
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Speaker 1: function So I am taking that with a grain of salt.

369
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Speaker 1: Although I guess it wouldn't be so surprising given that,

370
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Speaker 1: you know, nobody really could get their hands on the

371
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,200
Speaker 1: correct parts. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, it's like, yeah,

372
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Speaker 1: but it seems to me rather dangerous to send the

373
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Speaker 1: ship to sea with only one functioning Yeah, although I

374
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Speaker 1: guess you say, you know, you kind of had your

375
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Speaker 1: bet at that point, right, you say, well, you've only

376
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Speaker 1: got one functioning engine, but it would take us like

377
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Speaker 1: five years to actually get the parts we need in

378
00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,680
Speaker 1: every fabricade or whatever, you know, or yeah, yeah, but

379
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Speaker 1: you know, there's what fairly disposable dudes on this ship

380
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 1: also like pretty disposable, So I oh, yeah, you know,

381
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,240
Speaker 1: either they make it and they're helpful or they don't,

382
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 1: but we tried. Yeah, I and I I really think

383
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: the proper course of action for this ship would have

384
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,199
Speaker 1: been to like runner not too not too far distances

385
00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: or very long until that second engine craps out and

386
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,840
Speaker 1: then just scrap it and use that steal to build

387
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,239
Speaker 1: you know, other stuff on the battleships or something like that,

388
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: or just scrap it. Yeah, that would have been that too. Yeah,

389
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:26,640
Speaker 1: that just doesn't make any sense. It would be as

390
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 1: if I were going to take a you know, a

391
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 1: road trip in my car, but I only got first

392
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,719
Speaker 1: and second Geary. I mean that, that's essentially it. I'm

393
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,280
Speaker 1: gonna drive a thousand miles, but it's gonna take me

394
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: weeks because my mac speed is you know, twenty miles

395
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: an hour. It's just it's foolish. Yeah. Do nobody in

396
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,560
Speaker 1: good conscience would do that? Yeah, it is, you know.

397
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,680
Speaker 1: And and frankly, this thing was designed with an inadequate

398
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 1: inadequate number of engines anyway. Um, and that probably gets

399
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: back to things like, you know, if you're gonna have

400
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: a big, big tour in the floatplane and a big

401
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: that holds forty prisoners, well you gotta you gotta make

402
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: up that space somehow. Well, but the fleet submarines at

403
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 1: the US building World War two had four diesel engines

404
00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: in them. And you know, the you guys are seeing

405
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,680
Speaker 1: the blue Back, you know, the blue back. Blue back

406
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,080
Speaker 1: has got three diesel engines in, you know, and it's

407
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 1: not even how big is I mean blue is two

408
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: ft long? Yeah, and so you know, it seems to

409
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 1: me that three is the minimum, you know, really needed. Yeah.

410
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: I've got a chance to take a tour of a

411
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,119
Speaker 1: Russian Foxtrott submarine and that's that's a pretty small dinky

412
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: sub compared to compared to this thing, and that had

413
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 1: three diesels on it. I mean it's like, you know,

414
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: three is a minimum. So yeah, so you know, design

415
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,080
Speaker 1: constraints are you know, submarines are there's a huge design

416
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: constraint which is a total volume equals total displacement, which

417
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 1: is not the same as for surface ships, where displacement

418
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 1: is smaller than the actual volume of the ship. And

419
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,239
Speaker 1: so there's only so much space on that thing. So

420
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 1: I assume to like do things like a brig in

421
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: you had to cut out a diesel engineer too, or

422
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 1: you know, the what is it the null tank or

423
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 1: then then the negative tank, Yeah, the negative tanks. Maybe

424
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: there is an all tank would If you look at

425
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 1: the tanking diagram of the submarine, you would be amazing

426
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: how many tanks there are on a typical submarine. Uh

427
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: so where were we? Oh yeah? So so anyway, so

428
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 1: they decide to send to the Pacific Theater. So she

429
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,239
Speaker 1: she left and went to Bermuda where she resupplied and

430
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: then headed south and there to go to the go

431
00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,359
Speaker 1: through the Panama Canal. I guess southwest tech Yeah, like

432
00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 1: like that would make sense, and headed southwest. The plan

433
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: was to go through the Panama Canal, stop off at

434
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 1: Tahiti for a little resupply, then on to Sydney. Uh

435
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,320
Speaker 1: So she never made it to the Panama Canal. She

436
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,479
Speaker 1: disappeared somewhere between Bermuda and the Panama Canal. Yeah, and

437
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 1: so the question is what happened to her? Here's the

438
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 1: installed mystery part of things. Yeah. Yeah, why would they

439
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: send a ship like that? Which is a valid question. Yeah.

440
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 1: So you know, again there were questions about her loyalty,

441
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 1: and according to the U. S. Navy, she was done

442
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,239
Speaker 1: in by an accident. Accident. Okay, so and again this

443
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 1: is this is my own fault. But I read this theory.

444
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: I could never quite understand exactly how this would have

445
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 1: gone down. I don't understand what you didn't understand about it. Well,

446
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,680
Speaker 1: it just seems that if this is such a massive ship,

447
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 1: I mean, well okay, before we're getting ahead of our

448
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: So what is what is the theory or give us

449
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: the details on this particular one. Well what the What

450
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: the U. S. Navy said is that there's an American

451
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 1: freighter named that Thompson likes was was steaming in that area,

452
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 1: the same area that the thing that our sub was

453
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: in and reported hitting and running down a partially submerged object,

454
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 1: and her lookouts supposedly heard people in the water, but

455
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 1: they went on was out without stopping because they were

456
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: assuming it was a U boat on German U boat,

457
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 1: although apparently they said they had heard people yelling out

458
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 1: in English, so there were only those problems. Yeah, there

459
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: were only three people on the boat who spook English,

460
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: so I mean, I was some of the French did,

461
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: but you know, you think they would be like yelling

462
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: in French, but you know, it's it's hard to say.

463
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 1: It was supposedly a very very dark night, uh, and

464
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 1: they just heard really kind of more heard and felt

465
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: rather than saw. There was I found a thing on

466
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: the on the interwebs, some guy who had claimed that

467
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,239
Speaker 1: his grandfather was on the Thompson likes and said that

468
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: he was. He was. He remembered the incident very clearly,

469
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 1: and he said it was the biggest submarine you've ever seen.

470
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: Although I'm questioning that because it's like it's like I said,

471
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: I thought it was a dark, moonless night and nobody

472
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:58,200
Speaker 1: could see, so I guess my my question about that is, like, okay,

473
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 1: so you assume it's a German U boat and like whatever,

474
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 1: like humanitarian problems without a sign, like fine, but you

475
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 1: have lights on your ship. You have you just have

476
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: you have lights on your ship, on the deck of

477
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: your ship, and maybe you just like shine one down there,

478
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,040
Speaker 1: just like hey, what was that? Okay it was, let's

479
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,199
Speaker 1: keep going, or oh no, that was something much bigger

480
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: and we should probably stop and try and help these people,

481
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: or oh we just hit a whale, like you know, whatever,

482
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: the possibility you take one light, one lookout person takes

483
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,639
Speaker 1: one light, turns the switch on, but it takes one

484
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: light to get spotted by the enemy and be shot.

485
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 1: This is true. This is true. If you if you

486
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: believe that, you just run over a U boat. Then

487
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 1: you just run over pretty much all of the enemy

488
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: that's in the area, probably crowning. You just watched them

489
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 1: drown for a second. Yeah, I mean it might be.

490
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: It could be that if you you know, obviously from

491
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: a humanitarian standpoint, because you could have just run over

492
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: somebody's goat or something like that. It's hard to say,

493
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 1: but ship a small cruise ship, yeah yeah, yeah, I mean,

494
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: but of course you know, of course, if if you

495
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: really think that it's the U boat, well the U boat,

496
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,879
Speaker 1: and the U boat doesn't think the boat might sink you,

497
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: So maybe you want to beat feet out of there too.

498
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe that's why they did it, I guess.

499
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: Or you check to make sure that it's actually thinking,

500
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: and if it's not, while they're like in panic mode,

501
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: you shoot your one round into them and then they

502
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: actually are thinking. Well you can do that, you know,

503
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that just in my mind. Again,

504
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: I understand I'm not a soldier in the more or

505
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,720
Speaker 1: anything like that, but you shine a light, I would

506
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,439
Speaker 1: think you would, now you'd want to know is actly

507
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: what you know, what you ran over? I would think so,

508
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: But they didn't. And it's kind of surprising because and

509
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 1: I know it's wartime, but you know, a law of

510
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: the sea and all that, you're supposed to stop and

511
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,439
Speaker 1: help people. And especially then the report that they hear

512
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: people calling out in English. Yeah, you know, you think

513
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: that if they actually heard somebody calling out in English,

514
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: but they really didn't want to stop, then they would

515
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: just keep quiet about it. So here's here's the thing

516
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: is when what I didn't understand, and this gets back

517
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: to my initial question, is what it didn't get is

518
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: if the circuf is so large and such a manage ship,

519
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 1: I would think that hitting it would cause excessive amounts

520
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: of damage to a top side boat. I would think

521
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 1: that that would just mangle the holy crap out of

522
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: the hole to the point that that ship would go

523
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: down as well, because it's it's just such a big

524
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: chunk of metal in the water. I guess it could

525
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: be a glancing blow. But glancing blow wouldn't sink the sun, No,

526
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 1: but a glancing blow could tilt it off of its act.

527
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 1: You could knock it over and it's open. Everybody's like

528
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: up there doing stuff or whatever. It was over. Well,

529
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: they said it was partially submerged. They say they partially

530
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: submerged object that probably even when it's top side, it's

531
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 1: partially submerged, right, Well, I mean it's always any boats

532
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: partially submerged always, But it's like you know, I mean, yeah,

533
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: they could have been diving, for example, they could have

534
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: been surfacing and then then so this thing just sort

535
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: of scrapes along the top of it. But the thing is,

536
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: if it did that sort of glancing blue scraping thing,

537
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: it's not going to probably damage the sub enough to

538
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 1: sink it. To me, and this this is where this

539
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 1: gets back to where I had issues with it. If

540
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: you think about the two moving perpendicular to each other

541
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,640
Speaker 1: and they hit it basically a ninety degree angle, it's

542
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,400
Speaker 1: and it causes enough damage to sink the sub. That

543
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: to me means it causes enough damage to the ship

544
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: to potentially sink it as well. If it's a glancing blow,

545
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, so they're almost parallel to each other, well

546
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: then they bounce off of each other, and that doesn't

547
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 1: seem like that would be enough force to sink the sub.

548
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: That's what I didn't get about this whole We ran

549
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: them over, that's yeah, that's true. Yeah, well they did

550
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: hear scraping along their keel. So that what's again to me,

551
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: it kind of reinforces that the idea perhaps they were submerging,

552
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: and so if they were like kind of submerging already

553
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: and they got run over and then you know, that

554
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: would that would cause a lot of scraping sounds and

555
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: stuff like that, and there was damage apparently to the

556
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 1: likes about I didn't see that when it wasn't I mean,

557
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: it was obviously it wasn't enough damage to stop them. No, no, no,

558
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 1: did that according to the kind of that I was

559
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 1: talking about. The guy with the grandfather who was in

560
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 1: the ship, he said that they were actually taken on

561
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: water after Okay, well, then validity to the theory for me,

562
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 1: because I didn't I did never see that before. I

563
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: also guess you can take on some water as a ship. Yeah,

564
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: you still got you've got pumps and stuff like that.

565
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: You've got pumps or you know, you section off that

566
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 1: shut section and you shut your fire door and everything's

567
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: fine for you know, the twenty minutes that it takes

568
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: you or yeah, I mean, yeah, even if it's two days,

569
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: it's all compartment. Yeah you're gonna list badly, but yeah, yeah,

570
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: so it wasn't Yeah, they were taking on water, but

571
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't catastrophic. So I that that solves that for me,

572
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 1: and I can I can run with that a little

573
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 1: more now that I never was very weird. Yeah, yeah,

574
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 1: so yeah, I don't know. But you know, the question

575
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: is I mean to you know, a submarine has two holes.

576
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: It's got the pressure hole on the inside, then it's

577
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 1: got the outer hole that you actually see. The pressure

578
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 1: hall is built very stoutly to withstand tremendous amounts of

579
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: water pressure. Probably the pressure hall didn't get breached. Probably

580
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: maybe one or two ballast tanks got breached. So even

581
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: if they weren't sunk, they were kind of screwed because,

582
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: like say, for example, if your forward ballast tanks can

583
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: no longer hold air because they've been breached, then if

584
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: you try to surface, well you're gonna be sort of

585
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: asked up in the air. You can still you can

586
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: still escape and everything like that. You can still escape

587
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 1: the sub and you can still make the surface, but

588
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: you really can't operate that kind of in that kind

589
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: of condition. So one theory that's out there is that

590
00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: they were actually done it by kind of a one

591
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: two punch set. They were hit by the likes and

592
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: they were damaged enough they were kind of dead in

593
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: the water. And that was on the night of February eighteen,

594
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: by the way, So they're dead in the water. And

595
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: believe that was yes, the next day some some according

596
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: to the records of the six Heavy Bomber Group there

597
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: they were operating out of Panama, they claimed to have

598
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: sank a large submarine north of Columbus. That's that's actually

599
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: Crystal Cologne, Panama. They planned to a sanky large submarine

600
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: to a seventeen and one B eighteen aircraft dropped bombs

601
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: on this vessel, and so it was quite possibly the Tuku.

602
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: You know, really a bad luck vessel when you think

603
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: about it, you know, because if this happened, they get

604
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: run over there, dead in the water, they're trying to

605
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: figure out what to do, and then here comes to

606
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: planes and just bomb the crap out of them. So there,

607
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: so then I guess by that theory their communications are

608
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: down to yeah, probably must have been. Yeah, they must

609
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: have been, because you don't, I mean, it's not it

610
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: doesn't happen so often that you bomb your own thing,

611
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: right for your radio and tennis and towers around on

612
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: the top, so something that's nothing. Yeah, yeah, it could

613
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 1: be that the likes took off their radio stuff. You know,

614
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,920
Speaker 1: they weren't they were and they were unable to communicate.

615
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: The thing that I finally explicable about this is that

616
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: they found the submarine, they sank it. But generally speaking,

617
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: in the Navy, they had like these cards that they

618
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: give you that have like silhouettes of various craft or

619
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: as ships and submarines and look, yeah, exactly exactly. They

620
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: have all these you know, these these and they have

621
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 1: these things that you can look at that will tell you, hey, okay,

622
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 1: this is a U boat. Hey this is one of ours.

623
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: And the Sirkup was one of the kind of one

624
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: of the combat it should have been. It should have

625
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: been some sort of a reference to. Certainly if they

626
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: looked at there, if they looked at their reference cards

627
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: and said, well, you bote, you vote your boat, there's

628
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: nothing like it. Maybe the Cirkuf being one of a cord.

629
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: Maybe they just never got around to putting it on

630
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: the identification cards. You know, I can totally see it

631
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: not being put in there. If it's one of a kind,

632
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: why am I going to spend all this time adding

633
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: it to all of these manuals for these guys, and

634
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: these guys going, well, the Germans have been doing all

635
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: this other crazy stuff. This must be one of their

636
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 1: new subs that we've been hearing about. I just see,

637
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of eighteen year old guys in

638
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 1: an airplane going I don't know what it is. Oh well,

639
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: i'll bet you, I'll bet you I know what it is,

640
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 1: and just going crazy, dropping a ton of moms. Yeah,

641
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't see it as it doesn't

642
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 1: look like a friendly one. So let's go ahead and

643
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: kill it. I've never seen anything like that, have you. Nope? Okay,

644
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 1: you know, and then you hail it, right or what?

645
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what that was. Hale it, You hail it,

646
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 1: and there's no response, and you've got all right, great, right,

647
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like ours. It's not responding to our radio.

648
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: Let's go ahead, and yeah, yeah, there are other theories too. Well, wait,

649
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,600
Speaker 1: I guess the next question of that is that is

650
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: the place where the ship reported hitting something close to

651
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: where the bombers reported bombing something. Yeah, it is so

652
00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: close enough that it could conceivably be the same thing. Yeah, yeah,

653
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: they're close. I did find one guy, one guy on

654
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: the web who claimed that the circus could not have

655
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 1: been in that place because if it was only running

656
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,720
Speaker 1: on one engine, that couldn't have it couldn't have actually

657
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,240
Speaker 1: gotten that far from Bermuda. But I actually that actually

658
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,759
Speaker 1: did a calculation. I figured out they probably could have.

659
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: That's fair, yeah, probably, yeah, yeah, yeah for another day.

660
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, where they were sunk

661
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: supposedly about twenty eight kilometers from Bermuda. They have six

662
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: days to get there. Okay, but so well we've never

663
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: found it, right, we've never found the wreckage. Well, according

664
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: to UH is to be believed, they know, they know

665
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: pretty precisely where it's at. They know the latitude and

666
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: launched you to where the record is at. It's and

667
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 1: it's an almost ten thousand feet of water and so

668
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:01,200
Speaker 1: that probably explained is when nobody has ever actually gone

669
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: down to find problem. Yeah, it kind of is. It

670
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,319
Speaker 1: would be actually interesting too. I wish somebody would go

671
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: to quite well, we need to write to Robert Ballard

672
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: and as they didn't. Jack James Stowe say back in

673
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: the seventies he was saying he was going to go

674
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: look for it and try and find it. There was

675
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: some rummer about that, but I don't believe he ever did. Well, no,

676
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: he never did. But I came across the counsel that

677
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: said that Cousteau was saying he was going to go

678
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: look for this kouth and he made all this public

679
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: kuha about it, and then the stories kind of followed

680
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,640
Speaker 1: that he got hushed up and basically told no, don't

681
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,680
Speaker 1: look for that. It would be in your better interest

682
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: just not to look for that. Sung. Well, so we

683
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: need to call up James Cameron. Yeah, yeah, Robert Ballard

684
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,239
Speaker 1: is Robert Ballard is the guy who took him down

685
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: to the Titanic. We need That's the guy we need

686
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,799
Speaker 1: to call it. But we should just call it James Cameron.

687
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 1: What should call it? Because actually he might think that

688
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 1: we're so awesome he wants to put us in a movie. Yeah,

689
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: uh yeah. So anyway, um there. You know, there are

690
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,440
Speaker 1: a lot of conspiracies theories surrounding this. One is that,

691
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,000
Speaker 1: uh it claims that the Brits didn't trust the Circuf.

692
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: They thought that the Cirkuf was cooperating with the Vis

693
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: French and actually sinking allied shipping and so this one

694
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,760
Speaker 1: of these series is that they deliberately sank it using

695
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 1: using whatever, you know, aircraft and whatever. They just went

696
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: out and found it and sank it. Another one is

697
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: that when it was import in Bermuda, British divers swam

698
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: out and attached limp it minds to it, which were

699
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 1: time to go off several days after. What's a limpit mind? Yeah,

700
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,439
Speaker 1: limp it mine is a is a is a mine

701
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: that's attached to a ship sold by magnets, and it's

702
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: called a limp it because it's got a similar to

703
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,280
Speaker 1: a limp it, which is a sea snail that clings

704
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: to rocks another heart. So basically what what this theory

705
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:00,879
Speaker 1: is saying then is that they just stuck a bunch

706
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: of magnets with explosives on it and a couple of daytimer. Yeah,

707
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:12,000
Speaker 1: that's one possibility. It's like being James Bond, Yes, James Bond,

708
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: James n Yeah. Now, of course there's another theory that

709
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,479
Speaker 1: she was swallowed by the remainder triangle, which, of course

710
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,440
Speaker 1: as as possible, it's a lot more plausible to believe that,

711
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,840
Speaker 1: you know, leaving aside limpid minds, that she just suffered

712
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: some sort of catastrophic failure because the submarine has a

713
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:29,919
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of hole openings. You know, that's

714
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 1: where you have water that you know, the water coming

715
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: in and out of you're venting and pulling in And yeah,

716
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:41,279
Speaker 1: that's entirely possible that if connection fails, And it's believable

717
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: with this boat. This boat was more than ten years old. Man,

718
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,279
Speaker 1: it had been by this time, it had been well

719
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:51,360
Speaker 1: over a year before she had any spare parts of

720
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: it was possible to sea fitting just failed and started

721
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: letting lots of large amounts of water in another one,

722
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:02,320
Speaker 1: another another claim. The story is that she was caught

723
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 1: in Long Island Sound refueling a German U boat. This one,

724
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: this one. I was going to say that if you're

725
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 1: if you're going to refuel a German U boat on

726
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: the slide, it seems to be like doing a Long

727
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:19,319
Speaker 1: Island Sound is kind of a bad idea. Yeah, what

728
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: is the story or the anecdotal evidence behind this? In

729
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: other words, I know this this theory comes from some

730
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: stories of something being sunk in the Long Island Sound,

731
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: But I never could figure out how somebody tied it

732
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 1: to being Yeah, I don't know either. I mean there

733
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: might there might very well be a U boat wreck

734
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: in the sound. I mean U boats were all over

735
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 1: the place. I guess. My big question about that is,

736
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: like she's running on one engine. She's got like no

737
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: extra room in her entire body, right, Well, why is

738
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: she refueling other things? Well, there is there is a

739
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 1: good that is a good point. It's like you did,

740
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean she did. This boat actually did carry quite

741
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: a lot of fuel for a submarine, which she obviously

742
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: needed for herself. Yeah, probably, you know. And so there's

743
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: another another story is that she was loaded up with

744
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: French gold. Yeah okay, it flashed that out for you

745
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: because I didn't see that one. Yeah yeah, yeah. So

746
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: another another story, and again I don't place any any

747
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 1: value on this at all, is that a lot of

748
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,439
Speaker 1: gold from the French treasury was actually put in their

749
00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,840
Speaker 1: cargo compartment. You know that big space that was built

750
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 1: to house forty prisoners. Yeah, well that's a nice big space.

751
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: You stack a lot of gold bars in there. Oh

752
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: those are great ballas. Yeah. I know that it's nice

753
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 1: and low down there, and that I would definitely keep

754
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: you from tipping over. So yeah, you know, but It's

755
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: like like many of these stories about lost ships, somehow

756
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: gold ones up getting interjected quite often. I was gonna say,

757
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:50,280
Speaker 1: this is just like the houring mcdan and Yamashita's gold

758
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: talked about before. What how did Oh? Okay, well this

759
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:57,800
Speaker 1: one got it. Seems like it's what was the phrase

760
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,800
Speaker 1: we used, shoehorned in? Yeah? Probably probably. Well, I guess

761
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: you know what about slavery? Yeah, well that's a good point.

762
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean there's no reason they might

763
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: have been running slaves from Africa to the New World.

764
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: It's a little late for that. But wow. So there

765
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: was a Jacques Cousteau, the Jacques Cousteau thing, so has

766
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: claimed that Jacques sto actually did find it and go

767
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: aboard and grab the gold, and that's why you shut

768
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: up about it later. But again, that's that's not exactly believable. Um.

769
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: And then there was a diver named Lee Prettyman who

770
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: reported he claimed to have found it in the nineteen sixties.

771
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,800
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, and there was a newspaper article published

772
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: about it, but he was actually forced to retract his

773
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: story later on, so apparently because he apparently not Yeah,

774
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: and so most of these series are really fairly weak.

775
00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 1: The strongest series at the six Heavy Bomber Group, the

776
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,240
Speaker 1: one that meant the one that I mentioned earlier, operating

777
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 1: out of Panama. Their records do show that was sinking

778
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,880
Speaker 1: a large submarine on the morning of the February nineteen,

779
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 1: but they never they never classified the kind of sub

780
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: that they say said it was a big stuff. We

781
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: said said it was a big sub. And so that

782
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: seems it seems to me that you know, quite possibly

783
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,240
Speaker 1: they were just done in by the one to punch.

784
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,799
Speaker 1: You know, they get hit by a freighter and then

785
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: the next morning they're trying to figure out what to

786
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: do and limping towards shore and then here come these

787
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,960
Speaker 1: airplanes and boom. For guys, I feel bad for him.

788
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's like dying in a sub would

789
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 1: not be a way to go there. Either you drown

790
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: or you suffocate, or you start I mean, there are

791
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: no good possibilities tying, and so it's like, yeah, it

792
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:55,360
Speaker 1: would be a way to go regardless of what happens. Yeah,

793
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 1: or you managed to stub how get to the lifeboat,

794
00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 1: get over ward, you get the lifeboat and then later

795
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: on you're eating sharks or you drift until you starved

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: to death. All kinds of bad possibilities here. You're picked

797
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: up by a U boating Yeah, I mean anything could

798
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: happen here. Yeah. So anyway, sad, sad story. And you know,

799
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: it is quite possible that they were done in by

800
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: by British treachery. The Brits maybe for whatever reason, did

801
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,879
Speaker 1: decide to put a behind in their hole, but there's

802
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,359
Speaker 1: really no evidence for it. So which one so you

803
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: think it was? So you, personally, Joe lean towards more

804
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: of the one to punch approach, yeah, or possibly even

805
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,479
Speaker 1: just the one punch approach. I mean, there's no there's

806
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: no real proof that the Thomas Likes actually hit this,

807
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: hit this circof. There could have been other things that

808
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: they hit. There's all kinds of stuff, even leaving inside

809
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 1: ships and submarines. There's all kinds of stuff floating around

810
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 1: the ocean. Yeah. Like you remember after after the tsunami

811
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: in Japan a few years back then, like like one

812
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: day somebody somebody goes on the Organ coast, goes out

813
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,360
Speaker 1: looks and there is this big floating dock that washed

814
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: up on shore. It's like, you know, there's stuff like that.

815
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: All over the place in the ocean. I mean, but

816
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,880
Speaker 1: they didn't obviously have containers back and they don't containers

817
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: and container ships back then. But these days, you know,

818
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: container ships lose containers over the side all the time.

819
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: There's containers out there floating around, and you know, you know,

820
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: even back in those days of World War Two, there's

821
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff floating around the ocean that you

822
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: can run into. So it may have been the one

823
00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: to punch, or it may have just been that the

824
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: Thomas Likes hit something else entirely. And then these guys

825
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: showed up on February nineteen in the early morning and

826
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: sank listener, who personally, I I, based on the history

827
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: of this this vessel, I have a feeling that to me,

828
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: it's more of the mechanical issues. She had some kind

829
00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: of failure, because I mean, all this reading about you know,

830
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: we couldn't get parts for and all this stuff. It

831
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 1: just seems to me that something she basically spread the

832
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: leak and went down because things just stopped working. It

833
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: seems the simplest again, it's Accum's razor, but it's simplest,

834
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: more plausible. Submarines Again, they operating a very hostile environment,

835
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: and they are very complex machines. There's a lot of

836
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 1: points of failure, and yeah, they can easily be done

837
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 1: in by just a mechanical failure. Yeah, I mean I

838
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 1: think I you know, when I was working on cruise ships,

839
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: which is not comparable to a submarine really, but a

840
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,759
Speaker 1: little bit. It is that we had a ship in

841
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: our fleet that like I had to go in for

842
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: repairs like four times or something like that. And there

843
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: was one time where they like took it out for

844
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 1: repairs and like the front seat or just fell off

845
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 1: the front seat or so it was like where they

846
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 1: would load all the like cargo or whatever. So it's

847
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 1: usually like above water and they would drop it down

848
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: into the water and it just fell off like underwater,

849
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,319
Speaker 1: just fell off. Day. Like if it happens all the time,

850
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, somebody doesn't studer something on quite right, you

851
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 1: know your you know then you know what twenty thirty

852
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 1: years since they even had parts that were actually made

853
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: for them. You know, they've been just cobbling repairs together

854
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: ten years, yeah, ten years, ten years, yeah, but yeah,

855
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: ten years. So well, yeah, we have in service and

856
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:14,840
Speaker 1: constantly and guys are working on in metric versus standard.

857
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 1: It's easy to get everybody confused. Yeah, so I guess

858
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: I agree with Steve. Yeah, I think mechanics, some kind

859
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: of mechanical failure or a bombing. I don't think. Yeah,

860
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: it could have been ebombing, It could have been I'm

861
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: pretty sure it wasn't aliens, but maybe we don't think

862
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: so it might have been. Okay, you think it might Okay,

863
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: that's good. I'm willing to allow like a possibility, okay, alright, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah.

864
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: So anyway, it's too bad for the CIRCUF. I think

865
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 1: we solved this mystery pretty conclusively, and we think that

866
00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 1: maybe it was aliens. Okay, aliens, aliens bombing from the

867
00:45:54,520 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: air and six just mechanical failure. Okay, that sounds right, perfect, Yeah, great, Okay,

868
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 1: that's so cool now, And so now you're all experts

869
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,280
Speaker 1: on the CIRCUF. Alright, So if you want to see

870
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 1: pictures of the Sokof, I've actually, I've actually found a

871
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 1: cool picture across section of a model of the CIRCOF

872
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: and so you can look at that and get an

873
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: idea of the complexity of this beast. And also, if

874
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: you want to see links to other sites. They will

875
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: be on our website, which is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

876
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: And if you like to if you were actually on

877
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,120
Speaker 1: the circuf and you somehome reculously survived, or if you're

878
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: on the Thomas Likes, then you want to like like

879
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: wig in a little bit here and tell us what

880
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: happened then at State four line. Uh yeah, you might

881
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: want to send us an email, which is Thinking Sideways

882
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: Podcast at gmail dot com. Also, don't forget to check

883
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 1: us out on Facebook and iTunes and Stitcher. And if

884
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: you're downloading an episode through iTunes, please stop, give us

885
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: a rating, give us a review if you possibly can.

886
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Let's wrap this up. Another mystery

887
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: solved here on Thinking Sideways. That's it. Goodbye, talk to

888
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 1: you guys soon. It was Aliens. I'm pretty sure now

889
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 1: you're probably right with that.