1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,840
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samitha. I don't Stephane never

2
00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:20,360
Speaker 1: told your protection of iHeart radio and welcome and is June,

3
00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,479
Speaker 1: which means Happy Pride Month. Annie, thank you to you

4
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: as well. So we have been doing women around the

5
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,880
Speaker 1: World for a while now. I still trying to think

6
00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,760
Speaker 1: of a new title. Still trying to get there. Um,

7
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,279
Speaker 1: so let's stay celebrating great people around the world. That's

8
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,159
Speaker 1: not a good backgronym, I will say that, but I

9
00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:43,680
Speaker 1: thought it would be interesting, since this is Pride Month,

10
00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,720
Speaker 1: taking it on a personal level, um, especially about people's

11
00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,199
Speaker 1: journeys and and You've talked a little bit about your

12
00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:54,480
Speaker 1: own journey between discovering for yourself your identity and coming

13
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,840
Speaker 1: out to people around you, And I thought it would

14
00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: be interesting to hear of the people you and myr

15
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:03,800
Speaker 1: or look up to as you are processing your journey.

16
00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,520
Speaker 1: So I'm putting you on the spot you are. And

17
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,080
Speaker 1: because of that, I do have a couple of caveats

18
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 1: before I get into this is okay, So number one,

19
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880
Speaker 1: this is far from an exhaustive list. Um. And I'm

20
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,720
Speaker 1: sure like probably an hour from now, I'll be kicking

21
00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,040
Speaker 1: myself for people that I've forgotten I wish I had

22
00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 1: mentioned because there are a lot of people, um, and

23
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,720
Speaker 1: also I didn't have time to vet the folks that

24
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:30,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to talk about and make sure they haven't

25
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,759
Speaker 1: done something really terrible or problematic recently. So please give

26
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,800
Speaker 1: me a pass on that or let me know either way,

27
00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,200
Speaker 1: but just put that out there. Yeah, I mean, it's

28
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,320
Speaker 1: good to know because sometimes we don't we don't know

29
00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,200
Speaker 1: some of the issues that have happened. It's always kind

30
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,520
Speaker 1: of a fear of ours trying to be uh inclusive

31
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,800
Speaker 1: and also trying to be aware of problematic people and

32
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:51,559
Speaker 1: why we should call them out. Like there's so many

33
00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,280
Speaker 1: times that I have researched for the specific segment and

34
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, no, this one bad thing which I

35
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: can't be ignored. But it makes you sad because you

36
00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,960
Speaker 1: don't want to negate the good things that they have done.

37
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:07,520
Speaker 1: But it does make you pause and I have to

38
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,120
Speaker 1: really rethink what you're talking about and whether it's worth

39
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 1: um bringing it out or celebrating which is a good

40
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,480
Speaker 1: and bed there's so many things when it comes to

41
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,720
Speaker 1: try to celebrate people. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm taking this

42
00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 1: from a very personal level, so it's coming from how

43
00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,640
Speaker 1: they impacted me and inspired me specifically. So that's also

44
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,880
Speaker 1: something about this UM. I will say so many women

45
00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 1: we talk about, our people we talked about on this

46
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,360
Speaker 1: segment have been inspirations when I hear what they're doing.

47
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: UM books we've chosen, and one that came to mind

48
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,280
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about this was Charlene A Carothers Unapologetic.

49
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,800
Speaker 1: That was great. Roxanne Gay is a big one for me.

50
00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: Bad feminist, Like the first episode I did on this

51
00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:52,920
Speaker 1: show was about that and that whole idea, and that

52
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,359
Speaker 1: really informed how I thought about me as a feminist

53
00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,800
Speaker 1: and how I could be a feminist and be a

54
00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,760
Speaker 1: better feminist, but still have these things where I like

55
00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 1: things that aren't the best feminist entertainment of the most

56
00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 1: feminist entertainment. Tanya Israel, who was on our show once

57
00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,000
Speaker 1: her by coups she does WHI should bisexual high kus

58
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,960
Speaker 1: so good. Yes, Yes, I have many co workers and

59
00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,839
Speaker 1: friends that I would include as influences and inspirations. Many

60
00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,160
Speaker 1: of you listeners who have written in have been so

61
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:28,359
Speaker 1: open and honest, and then a lot of people we've

62
00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 1: talked about on this show that I really I'm glad

63
00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 1: that I encountered and encountered in college for a lot

64
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 1: of them, but I hadn't heard of them or didn't

65
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,400
Speaker 1: know a lot about them. Polly Murray was a big

66
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:45,160
Speaker 1: one because they just represented so many intersectional identities. Also

67
00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,600
Speaker 1: religious Presbyterian, which is how I was raised. Uh, And

68
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,880
Speaker 1: I love learning about Polly Murray. Billy Jean King, Yes,

69
00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:58,120
Speaker 1: I so, I love that the impact Billy Jean King

70
00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,920
Speaker 1: has had and continues to have. I keeping headlines about

71
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 1: what she's doing now. So I love that Sally rides

72
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 1: Um first, I believe, first American woman into space. Definitely

73
00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 1: up there. Oh. I loved hearing her story and all

74
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: the like both questions she had to answer about like

75
00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:17,720
Speaker 1: bras and space and we'll stick in space, all this

76
00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,400
Speaker 1: stuff and just she was so the way she handled

77
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,039
Speaker 1: herself in those questions I loved. And then like more

78
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:31,400
Speaker 1: currently there's Megan rampino Um and also Abby one buck Um,

79
00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,200
Speaker 1: and I kind of this is sort of like I

80
00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 1: love We've talked about. I enjoy soccer, but I have

81
00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:38,680
Speaker 1: some friends who love it and to see the impact

82
00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,560
Speaker 1: that those two people have had on them has been

83
00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,600
Speaker 1: really powerful for me. And how open they are. Laverne Cox,

84
00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:53,000
Speaker 1: just because I hadn't honestly, I hadn't seen a transgender

85
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:58,160
Speaker 1: person like that in such popular media before. Laverne Cox

86
00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,520
Speaker 1: and also continue used to do amazing things. Linda Carter,

87
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,040
Speaker 1: who played wonder Woman you might have seen recently made

88
00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:12,000
Speaker 1: some headlines because she tweeted this very beautiful artwork from

89
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 1: Paulina Gone, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. Um. That

90
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,839
Speaker 1: was like happy Pride everybody. It was just beautiful, like

91
00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,840
Speaker 1: wonder Woman with rainbows and stars behind her, and said like,

92
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,920
Speaker 1: if you don't think Wonder Woman was queer, you haven't

93
00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,159
Speaker 1: been paying attention. She's buying trans and I just loved it.

94
00:05:30,160 --> 00:05:32,760
Speaker 1: It was so great. Um. And of course, like through

95
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:35,960
Speaker 1: fiction fictional women around the world, I do have a lot,

96
00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,599
Speaker 1: although I kind of, as I mentioned in that episode,

97
00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,920
Speaker 1: we did bridget on Dana Scully, who is one for me,

98
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of fan work that I'm doing for

99
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,840
Speaker 1: all these because they never were like fully confirmed it

100
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: was queer. So Danna Scully, yeah, like she wasn't ever confirmed.

101
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,480
Speaker 1: But for me, for some reason, I was like, it's

102
00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,000
Speaker 1: a queer woman. Uh. I will say. Tara and Willow

103
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 1: from Buffy the Vampire Slayer was just problematic for a

104
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,480
Speaker 1: lot of reasons, not just because John Sweden stuff, but

105
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,640
Speaker 1: also just the way it kind of handled it. But

106
00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: it was the first time I saw two women kiss

107
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:11,480
Speaker 1: on network TV and that was a big impact on me.

108
00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:17,080
Speaker 1: Zeno Warrior Princess Um who I had a friend who

109
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,279
Speaker 1: loved to get a lot of these. I'm like, I

110
00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:21,160
Speaker 1: got to see it through a friend and the impact

111
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,120
Speaker 1: they had on a friend, and through that it had

112
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,360
Speaker 1: an impact on me as well. Um dr Afra, who

113
00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,160
Speaker 1: we talked about in our Fictional Women Around the World,

114
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,560
Speaker 1: who is sort of the Star Wars version of Indiana Jones.

115
00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 1: This was recent, but it had an impact on me

116
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,960
Speaker 1: because I wasn't expecting in a comic Star Wars comic

117
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,880
Speaker 1: to see two women together like physically and not no

118
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,719
Speaker 1: like I mean, they were clearly had had relations but

119
00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: it wasn't like gratuitous or like, oh you're hot boobs

120
00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,280
Speaker 1: or whatever it was. You know, they were under the

121
00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:57,480
Speaker 1: covers together and they had a relationship. I have just shocked. Shocked.

122
00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,279
Speaker 1: Ellie from the Last of Us. Of course I found

123
00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 1: out thanks to a listener who let me know this.

124
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 1: Yelena from Black Widow is the first confirmed ace character

125
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 1: in Marvel Really yeah, okay, so that's cool. I do

126
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:15,880
Speaker 1: love Yelena. And then I, if you will forgive me,

127
00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:20,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to include two men. Um, thank you Smith.

128
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,840
Speaker 1: So one is Todd Chavez from BoJack Horsemen. Was the

129
00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,080
Speaker 1: first time I've ever seen an a sexual character that

130
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,760
Speaker 1: I know of on TV, and I was like, oh

131
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:34,440
Speaker 1: my gosh, this this is me, this is what I feel.

132
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: And then also I just had to include Luke Skywalker

133
00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:43,520
Speaker 1: because I found a whole section of the Internet that

134
00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,400
Speaker 1: is very tongue in cheek that is called Luke Skywalker

135
00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 1: Gay Fashion Icon and it gave me the most joy

136
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,520
Speaker 1: of like had in a long time, and it was hilarious.

137
00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 1: But also I found this thing that I didn't know where. Um,

138
00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:59,320
Speaker 1: a woman was speaking about how she Luke Skywalker is gay.

139
00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 1: Think she just said LuSE Howard's gay. Now I believe it,

140
00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,400
Speaker 1: but he's gay, and she got booed and heckled, and

141
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,360
Speaker 1: then like Mark Hamill stopped in the back and said, no,

142
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: she's right. I don't know. I just gave you a

143
00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,640
Speaker 1: lot of joy. Uh. And I think it does make

144
00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 1: me sad that it's kind of this, like I have

145
00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: to search and like squint and convinced myself to see

146
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 1: this representation. But when I can, when I find a

147
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,640
Speaker 1: beautiful section of the Internet, the Luke Skywalker's gay Fashion gun,

148
00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 1: and I laugh and laugh and it brings me joy.

149
00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:31,920
Speaker 1: I'll take it for now. I'm right, Brian, you joy

150
00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:47,719
Speaker 1: is not a bad thing. As we're talking about more

151
00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 1: icons and people coming out, there's also that conversation of

152
00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,240
Speaker 1: your heroes who you have put on a pedestal when

153
00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,319
Speaker 1: they fall, what do you do? What is the reaction?

154
00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,760
Speaker 1: Because there's a lot of problematic things own the world.

155
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 1: We know it. J k Rowling and her her what

156
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,679
Speaker 1: seemingly came out with like we were so excited that

157
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:12,079
Speaker 1: maybe yes she is an ally and she's exhibiting all

158
00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,960
Speaker 1: this in the book, and yes, look she's uh confirming

159
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,760
Speaker 1: that Dumbledore was gay, and you know all of these things.

160
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,480
Speaker 1: But then you find out her stances are very turfy

161
00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,199
Speaker 1: and that she is exclusionary of trans because she fears

162
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,240
Speaker 1: trans women, which is a whole different conversation in itself,

163
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,000
Speaker 1: And then what do you do about that? What do

164
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,120
Speaker 1: you do when you have someone on such high esteem,

165
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 1: and how do you pick yourself back up of that,

166
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:39,760
Speaker 1: and then how do you enjoy it. One of the

167
00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 1: things about that is Glee, the show, which is problematic

168
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,679
Speaker 1: in itself, please don't get me wrong, but there was

169
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,439
Speaker 1: a lot of good representation and in a l g

170
00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: bt Q relationships that made it normalized instead of being

171
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:58,079
Speaker 1: overly tongue in cheek and or so sexualized to a

172
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,200
Speaker 1: certain degree, Like there was moments like if do you

173
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 1: have to do that? But there's so many problems within

174
00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:06,199
Speaker 1: that show, including the actual people in the show, that

175
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:09,680
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, now, it's kind of disturbing to watch,

176
00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,600
Speaker 1: whether it's uh, the death of your favorite actor or

177
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: the death or the arrest of possibility of pedophile and

178
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,880
Speaker 1: all of these things that happened within that show. You're like,

179
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,320
Speaker 1: as a person who I really love musicals, I love songs,

180
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:26,839
Speaker 1: and to see it being accelebrated for the first time

181
00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:29,760
Speaker 1: with like this and people loving it made me feel

182
00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 1: less nerdy. You're like, oh yeah, and then it kind

183
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 1: of goes away because of a lot of problems that

184
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,319
Speaker 1: happened within it. Harry Potter the same things, like I

185
00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 1: love the movies, but I wasn't the deep fan that

186
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: so many people have been where they just embraced it

187
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 1: and took onto a part of their personality and loved

188
00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,160
Speaker 1: it and used it as a comfort in their trauma.

189
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 1: To come back to, oh what do I do now?

190
00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,439
Speaker 1: Like there's this conversation of Okay, we have to squint

191
00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,920
Speaker 1: and really searched, but what do we do when our

192
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,400
Speaker 1: heroes fall? And I know you were a big fan

193
00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,559
Speaker 1: of Harry Potter, how did you fill with all of

194
00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,520
Speaker 1: that kind of like negativity that seems to be placed

195
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,640
Speaker 1: on it now? And and what are your thoughts on

196
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 1: enjoying it today? Yeah, again, I'm going to just caveaut

197
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,679
Speaker 1: this with this is very personal take that I have.

198
00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:25,640
Speaker 1: I did love Harry Potter. I think it might shock

199
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:29,880
Speaker 1: you to know this, but it was bigger than like

200
00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,439
Speaker 1: what's happening with Star Wars right now. Like I loved

201
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 1: it and it was something that got me through the

202
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 1: most traumatic time of my life, and all my friends

203
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: loved it. And I happened to be growing up at

204
00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,160
Speaker 1: the time when it was like perfect, Like we graduated

205
00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,480
Speaker 1: high school, when the seventh book came out, we graduated college,

206
00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,160
Speaker 1: and something movie came out, so it was like a

207
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:52,560
Speaker 1: very timing was perfect. Um, and it just meant so

208
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,200
Speaker 1: much to me, and it was a huge part of

209
00:11:54,200 --> 00:12:02,600
Speaker 1: my identity, and I think because I wasn't on social media,

210
00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 1: I was able to avoid the knowledge of that she was.

211
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:07,680
Speaker 1: Jake Eberlin was a turf for a long time, especially

212
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,200
Speaker 1: because she had kind of that um reputation of being

213
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,840
Speaker 1: like a good ally and like articles would come up

214
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,600
Speaker 1: about how like Trump is Baltimore, you know, like all

215
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:20,839
Speaker 1: that stuff. So she had like that going for her.

216
00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,800
Speaker 1: But then it just became like impossible to ignore, and

217
00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 1: unfortunately for me, that has made it extremely difficult for

218
00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: me to engage in it. And I also hate it too,

219
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,880
Speaker 1: because I mean, obviously it's awful, but growing up when

220
00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 1: I liked it, there was this idea that it was

221
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:47,080
Speaker 1: silly to like, Um that's what I experienced, Like it

222
00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,959
Speaker 1: was childish and frivolous and silly, and so I always

223
00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,640
Speaker 1: felt like I had defend why it was good and

224
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,600
Speaker 1: why I liked it and why it was valuable and worthwhile.

225
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 1: And so now it's like I feel a shame about

226
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,960
Speaker 1: it because people know I loved it, Like there's no

227
00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 1: way I can. If you've known me for any of

228
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,240
Speaker 1: that time, you know that I loved it, and I

229
00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,760
Speaker 1: still have, like you know, posters up and I haven't

230
00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,240
Speaker 1: the heart to take him down. But so there's that

231
00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,520
Speaker 1: aspect of it as well. And then I hate this too.

232
00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,760
Speaker 1: I have friends who are still really into it and

233
00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: I can't if they bring it up, it's like I

234
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,560
Speaker 1: totally shut down, like oh um, But I do want

235
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 1: to say some of you listeners, um, some of you

236
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,000
Speaker 1: trans listeners have written and said like it meant so

237
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,000
Speaker 1: much to me and this is how I'm like, reclaiming

238
00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,079
Speaker 1: it and reshaping it are all that stuff. So I

239
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: don't want to get this is very personal to me

240
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:42,960
Speaker 1: and I don't want to take that away from anybody.

241
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,400
Speaker 1: And I know we had that one listener right and

242
00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:46,520
Speaker 1: once she was really standing her friend who wrote the

243
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,040
Speaker 1: fan fix, and I still think about that and they

244
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:53,320
Speaker 1: did a better job. Yes, I love that too. Like

245
00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,280
Speaker 1: so I don't want like for me, it's hard. But

246
00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,280
Speaker 1: if you can reclaim it in a way that doesn't

247
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 1: feel like totally gross and you could write fan fiction

248
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,280
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, then yeah, and that's the thing.

249
00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,280
Speaker 1: It's like, if it helped you process that, then that

250
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 1: is a personal thing for you and it shouldn't be

251
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 1: taken away, But yeah, the bigger question is like what

252
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,680
Speaker 1: happens when our heroes fault? You know, Ellen de Generes.

253
00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:17,560
Speaker 1: It's kind of one of those things as well, because

254
00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,520
Speaker 1: she was iconic essentially coming out on national TV and

255
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: was one of the first, and she was successful, and

256
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 1: for so long she had been hiding that part of

257
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,880
Speaker 1: her identity, never really speaking too much about it. If

258
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember the Ellen sitcom show

259
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 1: that existed way before, Okay, way before I remember a bit,

260
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: but playing the heteronormative role she did, and then finally,

261
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,880
Speaker 1: I believe it was towards the end of the seasons,

262
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,520
Speaker 1: she just finally just came out. It just happened, um

263
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,280
Speaker 1: and it was earth shattering for so many, for the

264
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: conservatives and for the non conservatives, because it was a statement.

265
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,560
Speaker 1: It was a bold move during that time when on

266
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: national TV that wasn't being represented like that, and especially

267
00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:07,040
Speaker 1: a family sitcom. And I remember people really loving what

268
00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,760
Speaker 1: she was doing coming out, um, from being on Time magazine,

269
00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,760
Speaker 1: being on all the other I'm coming out literally was

270
00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 1: the headline of some of her magazines and seeing her

271
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,680
Speaker 1: become that icon and that you really wanted to go

272
00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,080
Speaker 1: with because it seemed like she leveled up to this

273
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 1: like kindness, perspective and joy and giving and maybe it

274
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 1: was during a different time and during easier time, I

275
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: don't know. But then she kind of fell from grace

276
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,120
Speaker 1: because of a lot of the problematic things that came

277
00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,760
Speaker 1: up from her show, her own response to some of

278
00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: the political conversations that were having, like we get it,

279
00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,840
Speaker 1: but maybe no, and and the fact that, yeah, at

280
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,160
Speaker 1: the end of our season, I think it's finally done.

281
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 1: Everybody was criticizing the work ethic on her set, uh,

282
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: some of the things in questions and how she went

283
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,080
Speaker 1: after people and her guests, And again, I think this

284
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,360
Speaker 1: doesn't have as big of a cultural impact today. Maybe

285
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,720
Speaker 1: I could be wrong, let me know, But for what

286
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 1: she did and in the beginning of her career was

287
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,760
Speaker 1: huge and a huge risk at that point in time.

288
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,480
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, she is still a white woman,

289
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,800
Speaker 1: fairly rich, fairly successful, so she did have a padded

290
00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:18,280
Speaker 1: uh step up, but it still was a risk. And

291
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 1: we know this, and to see that type of level

292
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,760
Speaker 1: of not necessarily like failure. It's not a failure, She's

293
00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: she made money, She made uh killing off her show

294
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: show all of that, and she has a lot of connections.

295
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,760
Speaker 1: We know this, and she's not just gonna go away.

296
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 1: We know she's gonna come back. It's it's inevitable, but

297
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,040
Speaker 1: it is. It was kind of hard to kind of

298
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,840
Speaker 1: see that to this today, to her transition today, also

299
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,240
Speaker 1: with the fact that just like that, she's human and

300
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:50,600
Speaker 1: and that's the problem is like we maybe we're putting

301
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,600
Speaker 1: too much on those uh when we see that in

302
00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: that are in the public eye. What is the responsibility

303
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: that they hold in being human versus what is a

304
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:03,480
Speaker 1: response ability that they hold in being a public figure. Um,

305
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 1: So there's a whole different there's a whole level of conversation.

306
00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,159
Speaker 1: Of course, being the turf is a whole different, different

307
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 1: different conversation and it self, especially when you were writing

308
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,639
Speaker 1: op eds about why you're a turf. But there's no

309
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,640
Speaker 1: many thoughts to that. Obviously, I want to come back

310
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,400
Speaker 1: to it because it's a constant one might Please don't

311
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:20,879
Speaker 1: put me on a pedistal, don't put people in a

312
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,359
Speaker 1: higher reach because they're inevitably going to disappoint you. And

313
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,200
Speaker 1: here's what you need to do to pick yourself up

314
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 1: after the point, like not to be the negative Nancy,

315
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:35,359
Speaker 1: but to be the negative Nancy. Yeah. And also I

316
00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,840
Speaker 1: don't want to because I've heard a lot of people

317
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: gay women specifically say how much Ellen de generous ments,

318
00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:47,480
Speaker 1: and I think that through that inspired them to either

319
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 1: come out or pursue things they thought they couldn't pursue.

320
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: So I don't want to take that away either. Hopefully,

321
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, yes, we should definitely recognize problem back behavior,

322
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,360
Speaker 1: not saying that at all, but hopefully you who took

323
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,159
Speaker 1: inspiration from that will move on and be ben or

324
00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:15,919
Speaker 1: do better. And with that, Uh, there's a lot of

325
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:19,560
Speaker 1: conversation about identity and being able to uh safely be

326
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,439
Speaker 1: who you are and just the stigma that has played

327
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 1: so many from being able to be themselves and uh,

328
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 1: and we've been able to follow your journey in this

329
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 1: I feel like we've really gotten to see you grow

330
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 1: and really understand who you are. Just from our first

331
00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 1: episode about being Ace and you having those conversations to

332
00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,240
Speaker 1: even reading the books and um, understanding a little more

333
00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:44,359
Speaker 1: about who you are. You're like, oh yeah, and again

334
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,640
Speaker 1: you have done this very transparently for all of us. Uh.

335
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,920
Speaker 1: And I've asked before, but I think it's always worth

336
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,080
Speaker 1: coming back to what advice would you give to others

337
00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:59,360
Speaker 1: who are trying to understand their own journeys who. Yeah,

338
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 1: I will say that everyone is different, um, and I

339
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,399
Speaker 1: always there's something lovely about that. And also it's kind

340
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: of scary about that because I'm sure all of us

341
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:15,880
Speaker 1: feel this way. But I feel like my coming out

342
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:19,119
Speaker 1: story is very I don't want to stay strange but

343
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:20,639
Speaker 1: kind of different because I did kind of do it

344
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 1: through a podcast. I came out on this podcast before

345
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,680
Speaker 1: I came out to anybody, writ I knew like really, UM,

346
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: I would say, definitely find yourself a support group. Uh,

347
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: and you can do that in multiple ways, and I

348
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,520
Speaker 1: think multiple ways is the best. Like if you can

349
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: find a close group of friends or you know who

350
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,919
Speaker 1: have your back, if you can find there's plenty of

351
00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 1: really good online groups that you can find a lot

352
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,400
Speaker 1: of cities have meetups and like not to tutor on horn,

353
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 1: but you could include us and that like a podcast

354
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,080
Speaker 1: or something because for me, like starting on this show,

355
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 1: I've said it before, but it was like, oh gosh,

356
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm not alone because I came from this small town

357
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 1: and I just wasn't hearing this kind of stuff. And

358
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:13,359
Speaker 1: I would suggest ideally you do all of that before

359
00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: coming out. I just had like a reminder, you know,

360
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,760
Speaker 1: there's a bigger rold out there, have a self care

361
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:21,760
Speaker 1: plan in place. And I'm saying all of this as

362
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,639
Speaker 1: somebody who kind of didn't do it, so sort of

363
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: like giving advice that I didn't really follow. But I

364
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: just think like, ideally, luckily I had all that stuff

365
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: and it worked out, but I think ideally you would

366
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,360
Speaker 1: kind of have that and be able to prepare yourself

367
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 1: and so that you can anticipate that if there are

368
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 1: these negative reactions from people are because it is hard

369
00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 1: and it is scary, you have this net, the safety net.

370
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: UM just like to go ahead. So it's almost like

371
00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:55,680
Speaker 1: thinking about it, planning it, making sure you're taking care

372
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 1: of yourself, um, the whole way, because it's it's kind

373
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 1: of shocking. I'm very insulated in a lot of ways

374
00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 1: because I am in a kind of liberals part of

375
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: a kind of liberal city. But occasionally, like very recently,

376
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: I got kind of a hateful thing said to me, UM,

377
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: and it I was just so taken aback by it

378
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:20,919
Speaker 1: because to me, I'm just be and I'm not bothering you.

379
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,399
Speaker 1: So it's good to have. Like even though I did,

380
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 1: I didn't really talk to anybody about it. I had

381
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: people to go to and just sort of like, screw

382
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 1: that guy, I'm just gonna talk you do I need

383
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 1: to pull up on because what yeah, see, this is

384
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:47,760
Speaker 1: how you need you needed, Samantha. Let's go. I'll find you. Oh,

385
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,560
Speaker 1: I'll find you. Definitely not listening, but noted, I'll find

386
00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 1: you listen. You know, honestly, one of the reasons I

387
00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,640
Speaker 1: wanted to put you on the spot as I am

388
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: thinking about a month and we want to celebrate. We

389
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 1: do it throughout the year, and we do it all

390
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,600
Speaker 1: the time. I know, like it's just constant that we

391
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,359
Speaker 1: want to talk about all the amazing people, whether the

392
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 1: non binary, trans, uh, queer whatever. This is our constant

393
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: and we want to keep it intersectional. But because it

394
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: is a time that we are going to celebrate Pride months,

395
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,200
Speaker 1: I was trying to think who do I admire, who

396
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: do I see and nothing. I don't admire more people.

397
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 1: I just have this oddness to the fact that I

398
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:30,360
Speaker 1: don't uh look up to celebrities. That's not a thing

399
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: for me. I don't know why I've never had idols

400
00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: or mentors in that way. Um, but people that I

401
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 1: look up to, our people that I've seen their growth

402
00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 1: and experience, and I was like, Annie is truly one

403
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 1: of those people that I queer people I admire because

404
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,400
Speaker 1: I've seen your journey and the joy and the pain

405
00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,840
Speaker 1: that you've gone through, but also the way that you

406
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: have really navigated a path for others, including our listeners,

407
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,440
Speaker 1: who have reached out constantly saying thank you so much

408
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: for your openness about you coming out from about your

409
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: trauma and understanding your trauma and how that does play

410
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 1: into your identity as well, and just understanding even more

411
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: of your queer identity beyond that and who you are.

412
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,400
Speaker 1: And so I was like, yeah, I'm gonna put any

413
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: on the spot because you're the woman that I do admire.

414
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: You're the queer person and like not just because you're

415
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,480
Speaker 1: queer obviously, but just seeing this journey has been fulfilling

416
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: for me to watch you love yourself and that has

417
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,639
Speaker 1: been a glorious thing. So I wanted to take this time.

418
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't put it on the outline saying any which

419
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 1: I was typically I'm not gonna put this on here

420
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 1: and make it really really odd, um, but I love you,

421
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: and I wanted you to know that as someone who

422
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: wants to be an ally but honestly just someone who's

423
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,879
Speaker 1: watching someone they love find themselves. Has been amazing and

424
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 1: I'm glad to have been part of this journey with you,

425
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: very small, just listening honestly, this journey. I want to

426
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: say a part of me listening with you, um and

427
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,320
Speaker 1: say that you're amazing, and uh, I'll hope you know that.

428
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: I celebrate you all the time, every time, any time.

429
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: But yes, to me, you are someone who should be

430
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 1: looked up to as well. Thank you. I love you too,

431
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: and you have been invaluable on this journey and listening

432
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: is no small thing at all. So thank you, thank you,

433
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. All right we' when it ended

434
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: on that happy note, that's it. Yes, yes, And also

435
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm loving seeing all of these pictures of people really

436
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: joyously celebrating pride, so keep those coming, um. And we

437
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 1: do have some more contents around this, because I know

438
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 1: there's some a lot of negativity going on right now

439
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: and that can get difficult to be bogged on in.

440
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: But yes, find that joy where you can, and also

441
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: you can always reach out to us are to me specifically,

442
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: some of you have and some of you have to me,

443
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:03,560
Speaker 1: and I love that. So I'm I am here, and

444
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 1: you can do that at our email, which is Steffanite,

445
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: your mom Stuff at I Hurt me dot com. You

446
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or

447
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as

448
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: always to our sup producer Christina, Hey you, and thanks

449
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stuff under Told the direction I

450
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: Hiart Radio from More podcast on my Heart Radio is

451
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: the Hear Radio, ap Apple podcast, or wherever you listen

452
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows