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Speaker 1: Welcome into the Lounge presented by DraftKings. I'm Ryan Mink

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Speaker 1: here with Cliffton Brown, fresh off the Ravens fourth of

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Speaker 1: July Little break, happy to be back, and we today

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Speaker 1: are going to talk about the Ravens Mount Rushmore. If anybody's,

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Speaker 1: you know, doing one of those cross country US trips,

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Speaker 1: they stop into South Dakota, check out Mount Rushmore, They're

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Speaker 1: going to see these Ravens players out there. You know,

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Speaker 1: this was a debate that I saw on the NFL

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Speaker 1: network kind of having they they're going team, my team

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Speaker 1: and saying who belongs on everybody's Mount Rushmore? And I

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Speaker 1: was I was interested in this because I think that

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Speaker 1: there's an interesting debate here in Baltimore to be had.

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Speaker 1: So so Cliff, let's start out here. I think there's

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Speaker 1: three slam dunks for the Ravens of Mount Rushmore.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I agree.

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Speaker 1: All right, So we have Ray Lewis, ed Reed, and

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Ogden, all three Hall of famers, all three guys

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Speaker 1: won a Super Bowl, Ray two here in ball it'simore

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Speaker 1: slam dunk picks. So we have three of the four

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Speaker 1: heads taken.

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Speaker 2: I don't think you can argue with that.

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Speaker 1: The question is who's the fourth? Okay, so Cliff, give

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Speaker 1: me your nominees.

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Speaker 3: The nominees for the fourth spot, in my opinion, would

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Speaker 3: be Joe Flacco, Lamar Jackson, Terrell Suggs, and Marshall.

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Speaker 1: Yanda and Marcia Nna.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw him in there too, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Could could you throw in a coach? Could Harball be

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Speaker 1: on the Mountain Rush?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: Branton out if you if you are throwing in a coach, then.

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Speaker 1: Definitely okay, Okay, Okay, Justin Tucker nominee. Not a nominee.

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Speaker 3: You'd have to throw Tucker. I believe Tucker will have

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Speaker 3: a gold jacket. So as a nominee, I would include Justin.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, all right, So now we have what

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Speaker 1: was that? Six nominees at six? Okay, one spot? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm gonna boil it

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Speaker 1: down the three okay, Okay. Harves is a tough one,

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Speaker 1: though hearts almost Max. I think I think, all right,

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Speaker 1: really we want to see players on here. This now

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Speaker 1: knock on Harves, but I think players. People want to

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Speaker 1: see the players on the mount rushmore.

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Speaker 3: The coaches or not all because almost all because we

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Speaker 3: tell you, it's all about the player.

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Speaker 1: All right, So we'll go that. That's gonna be our reason.

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Speaker 1: That'll be on fall Back, John Harmold and what the

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Speaker 1: players to be on Mountain.

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Speaker 3: Storm down the Hall, I'll say, Coach, it's all about

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Speaker 3: the players, all right.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna remove him. And I think I think

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Speaker 1: as great as Tucker is, greatest kicker of all time,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna remove him from the consideration. I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I think you'll have a gold jacket.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but I can't see justin blowing all these guys

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Speaker 3: out the water and getting that force spot.

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Speaker 1: I can't see image out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Jermaine, right, this is odd. It's supposed to be hard.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the best of.

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Speaker 1: The best, right, Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna take Marshall

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Speaker 1: Yanda off the list. Also, okay, because as great as

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Speaker 1: Marshall was, I mean, we're sitting here, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: an eight time pro bowler, pretty durn good. And I

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Speaker 1: think that marshallana will and deserves to be in the

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Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. I don't think he's going to be

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Speaker 1: a first ballot guy, but I think he deserves this

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Speaker 1: spot in the Hall of Fame.

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Speaker 2: He will get in.

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Speaker 1: I think he will get I think he will too,

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Speaker 1: but I'm going to remove him from this for now.

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Speaker 2: That shows you how tough this is.

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Speaker 1: Was tough.

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to argue with that. I would remove

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Speaker 3: him at this point as well, although yes, I think

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Speaker 3: he will be a Hall of Famer and I yeah,

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Speaker 3: I will have to remove him because I think the

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Speaker 3: last spot he's just gonna get edged out. To me,

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Speaker 3: the last spot, Now, you have to be one of

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Speaker 3: the all time best. What was the point where you

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Speaker 3: have to be one of all time best at your position.

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Speaker 2: To get that spot?

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Speaker 1: Well, not really, because I mean Joe Flacco well and

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Speaker 1: considered Joe Flaggo one of the all time best at

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Speaker 1: his position. That's not gonna flagen. You know what, Oh,

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Speaker 1: are you removing Joe in flavorit yonder?

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Speaker 2: No, I would say that.

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Speaker 3: What I was going to say is Joe Flacco's one

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Speaker 3: of the best postseason quarterbacks.

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Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say.

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Speaker 3: Okay, now, can't to me, you can't just eliminate the

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Speaker 3: regular season, right. But the reason why he is a

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Speaker 3: nominee for this fourth Mount Rushmore spot is because of

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Speaker 3: what he did in.

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Speaker 2: Playoffs, particularly on the road, right, and what he.

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Speaker 3: Did in the playoffs ranks with almost any quarterbacks playoff performance.

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Speaker 3: I mean, he was a better quarterback in the playoffs

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Speaker 3: than he was in the regular season, for sure, and

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Speaker 3: few quarterbacks have had the playoff resume that he.

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Speaker 1: Did as much success in the number of trips that

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Speaker 1: he made, just wins, and then obviously the epic Super

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Speaker 1: Bowl run that he went on twelve that's epic. Look,

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Speaker 1: Joe Flacco was the led the charge to the Ravens

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Speaker 1: second Super Bowl. Okay, no doubt about that. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: the defense that year. It was Joe Flacco and An

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Speaker 1: Kwan was awesome. There were a bunch of guys, right,

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Speaker 1: but but Joe Flacco was the guy there. He was

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Speaker 1: the m v P for a reason. So if we're talking,

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about that ring that I have, you

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Speaker 1: know on my finger, Joe Flacco gave me that ring, right,

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Speaker 1: and so he's up there for that for that spot,

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Speaker 1: all right. But just like you talk about, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's what he did in the postseason, he wasn't one

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Speaker 1: of the best regular season quarterbacks. You flip that over

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Speaker 1: Lamar Jackson. You say, well, gosh, Lamar Jackson is a

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Speaker 1: two time m v P. Right, where would the Ravens

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Speaker 1: v without Lamar Jackson the past whatever six years? Not

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Speaker 1: a good thought?

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Speaker 3: And Lamar, he's one vote away from being a two

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Speaker 3: time unanimous MVP.

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Speaker 1: Right, exactly, right, that's pretty strong. I mean, when you

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Speaker 1: talk about who is the better player, Lamar Jackson is

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Speaker 1: a better player than Joe Flaco. So if you're just

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Speaker 1: gonna boil it down to who is better the essential question,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to say Lamar Jackson, right.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean, at this point in his career,

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Speaker 3: Lamar two MVPs. The biggest not in the record in

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Speaker 3: the regular season is crazy.

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Speaker 2: The winning percentage.

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Speaker 3: Ye even think about when he took the reins from

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Speaker 3: Flacco in that twenty eighteen season as a right led

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Speaker 3: him to the playoffs, right, instantly, the entire team became better.

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Speaker 1: The trajectory of the entire franchis.

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Speaker 3: From the time he took that first nap, that's correct.

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Speaker 3: He picked the offense up and led it to a playoffs,

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Speaker 3: that's correct. So yeah, I mean, to me, obviously, the

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Speaker 3: biggest knock with Lamar is yes, he does not have

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Speaker 3: a Super Bowl ring.

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Speaker 1: Yet it's the converse of the joe phlak Organ.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, But when you look at his career at

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Speaker 3: this point and compare it to many all time great

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Speaker 3: quarterbacks had not won a Super Bowl at this stage

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Speaker 3: of their career, and very few had won two MVPs

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Speaker 3: at this stage of their career. So, yes, Lamar Jackson

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Speaker 3: is the better player in my opinion. He would be

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Speaker 3: the last spot on the Mount Rushmore.

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Speaker 1: Oh you're declaring, you're you're just saying it right now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would, And yeah, I mean hopefully he's going

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Speaker 3: to stay healthy for the next I'll just throw out

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Speaker 3: the number ten's age. Healthy for the next ten years,

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Speaker 3: relatively healthy. I think everything else will take care of himself.

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Speaker 3: He won't be talking about this ten years from now

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Speaker 3: as if who it should be.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so does that mean a super Bowl?

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Speaker 2: Yes?

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Speaker 3: Okay, yes, I think that's gonna be taken care of

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Speaker 3: all right, I do. I mean, you keep knocking on

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Speaker 3: the door like Peyton Manning did. I mean, I'm in

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Speaker 3: John Elway didn't win one to his last two seasons, right,

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Speaker 3: great career, Now it's possible. Hopefully it won't be a

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Speaker 3: damn Marito situation where everyone knows how great he is, right,

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Speaker 3: but he looks at his two at his two hands,

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Speaker 3: and he sees nothing there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he sees a wedding.

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Speaker 3: Yah, exactly the right, but not everyone knows that he

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Speaker 3: was a great player. But yes, I do believe, and

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Speaker 3: more importantly, Lamar believes. I believe Lamar believes.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Lamar definitely thinks there's gonna be ring on this finger.

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Speaker 3: Yet nothing that is happened in his career has broken

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Speaker 3: his belief. I believe that. And as long as that's

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Speaker 3: the case, I think, yes, it'll get to in.

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Speaker 1: Care If Lamar Jackson wins the Super Bowl for the Ravens,

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Speaker 1: he's a no doubter for the first spot on the

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Speaker 1: Ravens from Mount Rushmore, A no doubter.

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Speaker 2: I don't see how it couldn't be.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's the only advantage that Joe has over

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Speaker 1: Lamar in this conversation is he got it done in

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Speaker 1: the playoffs, and most importantly in the biggest playoff game. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: that's the only argument that he has. Absolutely did we

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Speaker 1: skip over so right? I think that, like we there's

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Speaker 1: a serious conversation to be had about Threll sucks. I mean,

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Speaker 1: here's a guy. Okay, so if we're talking about what

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Speaker 1: has put these other nominees up, won a super Bowl yep, Okay,

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Speaker 1: He's played for the Ravens for sixteen seasons. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: he will back up. He's a two time Super Bowl champion.

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Speaker 1: Threll sucks. He forget the last one, but yeah one

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Speaker 1: here exactly, here's defensive player of the Year right ok

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Speaker 1: in twenty eleven, he was a seven time pro bowler.

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Speaker 1: I mean, dude's got all the credentials, all of them.

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Speaker 1: And I'll say this, he also, I think, is one

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Speaker 1: of the central figures in establishing what it means to

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Speaker 1: play like a Raven, the Ravens defensive pride, legacy, whatever

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Speaker 1: you want to call it, Terrell Sucks is a big

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Speaker 1: part of that. Great I mean, if you're talking ray

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Speaker 1: Ed and Sizzle, yes, defensively.

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Speaker 3: I agree, he left a legacy and his impact on

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Speaker 3: the entire defense. We had a few, actually a bunch

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Speaker 3: of former Ravens at of practice here what last month?

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Speaker 2: I can think of two guys right off the bat

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Speaker 2: who mentioned.

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Speaker 3: Terrell sucks at the practice just like how different it

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Speaker 3: is not having him, Like when I played and.

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Speaker 2: Suggs was great.

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Speaker 1: They're like, if Suggs were here, this would have happened

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Speaker 1: right now.

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Speaker 2: And you hear his voice, You've been hear his voice right.

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Speaker 3: He was a presence, yes, and set the standard as

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Speaker 3: you mentioned of for all the guys when you came

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Speaker 3: to the Ravens much like to me, Rokwan Smith is

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Speaker 3: doing that when you join the Ravens defense. This is

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Speaker 3: a certain standard is how we play, you know started obviously,

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Speaker 3: Ray Ray established it and Ed Suggs continued that and

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Speaker 3: played at a high level for a long time. And

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Speaker 3: like all these guys in biggest games, to me, that's

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Speaker 3: when you almost expected Suggs was going to do something.

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Speaker 2: Bit he loved it.

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Speaker 3: He loved being the villain, I think he yeah, he

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Speaker 3: brought a swag you.

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Speaker 2: Know into New England.

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Speaker 3: He to me, Sugs would rather almost rather win a

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Speaker 3: game on the road than as much as he loved

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Speaker 3: playing in front of Ravens fans, he embraced the villain role, yep.

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Speaker 2: And he yeah, he was part.

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Speaker 3: Of the culture like Joe and Ray and others. And

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Speaker 3: despite all the disappointment, much like Lamar's going through now,

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Speaker 3: they had some disappointing playoff losses before they finally broke through.

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Speaker 3: It's because of a player like Suggs and others. It

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Speaker 3: didn't break down. They just kept coming and kept coming,

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Speaker 3: and they finally broke through.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And I think the argument, another argument for Sizz and

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Speaker 1: for Joe is the length of time in which they

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Speaker 1: were key figures here, right, that Lamar doesn't have. That's

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Speaker 1: like another point in their column, Lamar. You know, Lamar's

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Speaker 1: entering his seventh season. Am I doing the math right here?

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Speaker 1: Seventh season is yeah? Seventh? Yeah, And so you know

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Speaker 1: those guys, you're talking sixteen years with trell Suggs right right.

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Speaker 1: He and Joe were both parts of really the most

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Speaker 1: successful run in Raven's history. Yes, when you're talking from

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight Joe Flacco when he was a

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Speaker 1: rookie and took over to twenty twelve, I mean that

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Speaker 1: was a ridiculous run. I mean three AFC Championship games

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Speaker 1: and a super Bowl and you're in the playoffs every year.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So that was that was a crazy run of success,

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Speaker 1: and those two guys were at the crux. They were

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Speaker 1: the crux of that run on both sides for sure.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's a pretty important you know, longevity and

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Speaker 1: getting it done over a long period of time.

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Speaker 2: Matters, it does.

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Speaker 1: I'm still gonna give it to Lamar though. My final vote,

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Speaker 1: I'm still giving it to Lamar because I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's a tougher bit between Lamar and Sugs, and

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Speaker 1: I think I get Sugs over Flaco, even I think

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Speaker 1: I put Sugs over Flaco. I mean, Suggs was when

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Speaker 1: you talk about ravens. Sugs was a raven and Joe

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Speaker 1: was too. I mean, Joe was a yeah, I really tough.

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Speaker 1: But you know, he tarnished it with this whole brand

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Speaker 1: thing last year. He kind of tarnished his mouth. Rushmore

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Speaker 1: chances with me.

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Speaker 2: I'm not old, Eddie, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I get, I get, I get, but it was still

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Speaker 1: a little weird. It was weird saying with Sugs going

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Speaker 1: to win the Super Bowl went to Cardinals and then

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Speaker 1: the Chiefs, the Chiefs, Zach Rushmore, that might that might

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Speaker 1: be the final.

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Speaker 2: You know, if we're going to be like, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, we're gonna be petty. If we're gonna be petty,

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Speaker 1: that's even Peddy.

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Speaker 2: That was weird coming back in the Chiefs uniform.

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Speaker 1: All right, but of course you know me, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be petty, so.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna you assaulted yourself, Ryan, I think I do.

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Speaker 1: I do think I put Sizz over Joe, but I

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Speaker 1: think I put Lamar or SiZ. I mean, look, Lamar's

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Speaker 1: one of the biggest stars in the world, sports stars in.

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Speaker 2: The world, without question.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you could never ever say that about Joe

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Speaker 1: or Suggs. You could never say that. I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: he's the most exciting player. He's a bigger Lamar is

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Speaker 1: a bigger international star than Ray Lewis ever was. Right,

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Speaker 1: he's the most exciting player the Ravens have ever had

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Speaker 1: in team history. I mean Ray with all the pregame stuff,

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Speaker 1: you know, just the swagger. Ray was awesome in his

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Speaker 1: own way.

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Speaker 2: It was big.

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Speaker 1: But there's a difference between defense and offense, right, highlight

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Speaker 1: as a quarterback thing, right and Ray's you know, nobody's

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Speaker 1: arguing Ray. He of course he's the first guy you

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Speaker 1: put on Mount rushmore probably you know. But like, Lamar

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Speaker 1: is a bigger star than Ray ever was. So I

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Speaker 1: think I think you have to I give it to

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Speaker 1: Lamar and giving my first spot to Lamar.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I mean again, I think the only reason why

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Speaker 3: we're having this conversation is Lamar is seven years in

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Speaker 3: and when you talk about longevity.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Sis right right.

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Speaker 3: You know Sis Yan the other ray and you know

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Speaker 3: they they have longer resumes. But again, if Lamar can

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Speaker 3: play fifteen years, which means that he's like halfway through

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Speaker 3: his career, that resume at the end is going to

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Speaker 3: be something else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll say this, if you want to put Joe

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Speaker 1: or Sizz on the Mount Rushmore, it is a temporary

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Speaker 1: spot right now. I could I think that anybody could

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Speaker 1: make that argument, and I would be like, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I can't. I can't argue. I could argue. I would argue,

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Speaker 1: but like I would respect that opinion. Right if you

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Speaker 1: put Joe or SiZ on your Mount Rushmore, I would

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Speaker 1: respect that opinion.

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Speaker 2: Four now, right, four now?

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Speaker 1: Because the only now, if Lamar doesn't win one, if

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Speaker 1: he weren't to win one ever, makes it harder, right.

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Speaker 1: But I think that like with more years in this league,

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Speaker 1: I agree, I think that he will win one. And

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Speaker 1: I think that as long as he continues playing at

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Speaker 1: that level, he's played for and crosses off the longevity argument.

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Speaker 1: Even if he doesn't cross off the super Bowl argument,

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Speaker 1: the longevity argument, which I think that you know, eventually

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Speaker 1: Lamar is going to slow down, but he's in his

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Speaker 1: prime still, and I think that he will have a

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Speaker 1: number of excellent years in him as one of the

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Speaker 1: best quarterbacks in this game. He will cross that off

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Speaker 1: for sure. I have no doubt about him crossing.

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Speaker 2: That off none.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean that's the only that's

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Speaker 3: the only criticism he gets now to me is you

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Speaker 3: haven't won a super Bowl.

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Speaker 2: That's it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's nothing else He's he's been crossing off.

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Speaker 3: He's been silencing critics ever since he was in college.

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Speaker 3: And so he has one thing left on his to

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Speaker 3: do list and plenty of time to get it done,

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Speaker 3: assuming you know, he stays healthy. Right, And there isn't

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Speaker 3: any doubt in my mind in this organization, by the

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Speaker 3: talent that he's going to be surrounded by, and the

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Speaker 3: way that he's going to play, and the way that

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Speaker 3: he continues to try and get better. He's he's not resting.

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Speaker 3: He's still trying to be a better quarterback, and I

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Speaker 3: think he will still. He hasn't reached his peak as

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Speaker 3: a quarterback, so I think Lamar Jackson is going to

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Speaker 3: be a better quarterback two years from now than he

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Speaker 3: is now.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I agree with you.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: All Right, we're going to take a break. We come back.

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Speaker 1: We're going to wrap up this conversation about the Ravens

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Speaker 1: Mount Rushmore. Thank you for listening to Lounge. We're coming

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Speaker 1: to you from the seat Geek Studio. We also want

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Speaker 1: our listeners to know that this week, the DraftKings Sportsbook

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Speaker 1: twenty one or older to play. All right, Cliff, so

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Speaker 1: a good debate about who goes on the Mount Rushmore

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Speaker 1: in ink. Now you're etching this thing out. You got

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Speaker 1: the pickaxe. You're going Lamar for the fourth Yes, and

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Speaker 1: you're going Lamar.

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Speaker 2: Yup. I'm chisen everything all right.

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Speaker 3: I'm looking at his face getting it down, fat everything, airstyle, everything.

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Speaker 1: All right, that's a good looking Mount Rushmore. I'm right

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Speaker 1: there with you, Cliff. I'm gonna be your assistant. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to hand you the tools. You take care of

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Speaker 1: the chiselin. I'm right there with you. I'm going Lamar

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Speaker 1: Jackson for the fourth spot on the Ravens Mount Rushmore.

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Speaker 1: It's good stuff. It's good stuff. Well, thank you for listening. Everybody.

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Speaker 1: We are getting closer to the beginning of Ravens training camp.

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Speaker 1: We have more for you. We're going to break down

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Speaker 1: the competitions to watch. All that stuff is upcoming. Make

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Speaker 1: sure you leave a rating and review here of the

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Speaker 1: Lounge podcast. Send us your emails to the at Ravens

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Speaker 1: NFL dot net. We want to hear what's going through

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Speaker 1: your mind as we get closer to training camp and

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Speaker 1: maybe what fun summer things you've been doing. Lamar Jackson,

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Speaker 1: he wants to be playing some college football, you know,

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Speaker 1: video games. We're seeing Save Flowers had a camp, but

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Speaker 1: Derrick Henry had a camp. You know, all that fun,

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Speaker 1: all sieves and stuff is going. I went on a

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Speaker 1: hiking trip.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I went on.

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Speaker 1: It was a pretty epic hiking Chip Cliff saw his family, grandsons.

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Speaker 1: Good stuff's been happening. We want to hear what's going

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Speaker 1: on with your lives. Ravens are otherwise all right, so

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Speaker 1: email us. Thanks for listening. We'll be back with you

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Speaker 1: later