1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: This is the Business of Sports. 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 2: Sports are the greatest unscripted show owner. 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 3: The next generation of players who really grew up with 4 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 3: tech and believe in tech. 5 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 4: Your face is your ticket, your face is your wallet, 6 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 4: your face is your access to a club. 7 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 5: These are such iconic and important buildings for businesses. 8 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 1: For fans, COVID was one of the best things ever 9 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: happened to go. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 6: The NFL is a bulletproof business. 11 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 4: Racing is unique because there is absolutely no reason why 12 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 4: we can't compete with the guys. 13 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: I'm well, it's pro pickleball. 14 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,640 Speaker 6: Real, are people really going to tune into this? 15 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 3: If you're playing moneyball with a huge bag of money, 16 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,960 Speaker 3: you're going to be really, really good. 17 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 18 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 7: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports, where we explore 19 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 7: the big money issues in the world of sports. 20 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damian Sonasawer, and I'm Vanessa Prodemo. 21 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 7: Coming up on the show, we talk a little left one. 22 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 7: Our colleague Danny Berger from Bloomberg Television got a chance 23 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 7: to sit down with Carlisle CEO, Harvey Schwartz and Oracle 24 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 7: Red Bull Racing team principal Laurent Meckis about their new 25 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 7: partnership and the Oracle Red Bull Racing team's recent success. 26 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 2: Well, here a portion of Danny's conversation with Schwartz and 27 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 2: Mekis from the sidelines of the Formula One Grand Prix 28 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: in Austin, Texas. 29 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 7: All that and more is on the way on the 30 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 7: Bloomberg Business of sports. But first, we've got news this 31 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 7: week of a major illegal sports betting scheme going on 32 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:24,119 Speaker 7: in the NBA. 33 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,279 Speaker 6: That's right, Michael. 34 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 8: More than thirty people across eleven states were arrested in 35 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 8: connection to a sprawling gambling scheme that involved current and 36 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 8: former NBA players and coaches. 37 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 2: That's right, Vanessa. Miami Heat guard Terry Rozier and Portland 38 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 2: Trailblazer head coach Chauncey Phillips were among those arrested as 39 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 2: part of two separate criminal gambling schemes. 40 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 7: Now, according to the allegations, one scheme involved using non 41 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 7: public information about players and teams to make bets, and 42 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 7: the other involved a nationwide scheme that allegedly used special 43 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 7: technology to rig poker games. 44 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 8: Both of these schemes went far and beyond the NBA 45 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 8: and involved or organized crime families. 46 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 7: On Thursday, FBI Director Cash Betel held a press conference 47 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 7: announcing the bust, alongside several federal officials, including Interim US 48 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 7: Attorney for the Eastern District of New York Joseph Nocella, 49 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 7: who detailed the schemes. 50 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 9: Between December twenty twenty two and March twenty twenty four, 51 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:24,480 Speaker 9: these defendants perpetrated a scheme to defraud by betting on 52 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 9: inside non public information about NBA athletes and teams. The 53 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 9: non public information included when specific players would be sitting 54 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 9: out future games or when they would pull themselves out 55 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 9: early for purported injuries or illnesses. 56 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 7: That is US Attorney Joseph Nosella in an FBI pressor 57 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 7: on the massive illegal gambling scheme of allegations involving both 58 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 7: former and current NBA players. 59 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 8: For more on what we know about the scheme, we 60 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 8: welcome Bloomberg senior reporter Miles Miller. 61 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,040 Speaker 7: Miles Miller, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. I 62 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 7: wish it was on a happier note, but this is 63 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 7: very serious, and you know it's serious when the House 64 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 7: Minority Leader Hakeem Jefferies says that this is a case 65 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 7: that is stunning and should shake NBA fans tell us about. 66 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 10: Yes, So this is a criminal indictment that charges that 67 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 10: NBA players, current and retired were involved in two separate schemes. 68 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 10: You've got the one scheme that involves NBA players being 69 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 10: involved in sports betting. And basically you wouldn't say throwing 70 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 10: a game, but removing yourself from a game early so 71 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 10: that another party is able to make money off of that. 72 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 10: In this instance, we're told by Brooklyn prosecutors that my 73 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 10: Miami heat guard Terry Rosier was one of the people 74 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 10: who is responsible for this, and it goes back to 75 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 10: a game he played when he was on his former team. 76 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 7: Back in twenty twenty three. 77 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 10: Exactly, and he went out saying that his ankle was hurting, 78 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 10: his foot was hurting. But prosecutors say, in this case, 79 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 10: the truth of the matter was that you know, he 80 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 10: knew someone was placing a bet that would go a 81 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 10: certain way, and the only way to facilitate that happening 82 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 10: would be for him to leave the game. You may 83 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 10: be thinking, why are federal prosecutors in Brooklyn interested in this? 84 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,719 Speaker 10: And you know the reason is this goes back to 85 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 10: twenty twenty three, we're going back to the case involving 86 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 10: John tay Porter. Now, the reason why he is so 87 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 10: central to this case is because he had said that 88 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 10: he had a gambling addiction and that was the reason 89 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,040 Speaker 10: why he had gotten involved in some of these illegal 90 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 10: sports betting schemes. And then what happens. You know, you 91 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 10: know a good thing is going on, so you bring 92 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 10: your friends into it, and that is what prosecutors are alleging. 93 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 10: The reason why these NBA players were involved was because 94 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 10: you know, they have a central link in one NBA player. 95 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 8: It's really it's really unbelievable, all of the moving parts 96 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 8: to this story. And like you mentioned this incident that 97 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 8: happened with Terry Rozier in twenty twenty three. He was 98 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 8: under investigation at the time in twenty twenty three, and 99 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 8: the NBA found that there was what their conclusion was 100 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,480 Speaker 8: nothing illicit had happened at the time. But now it 101 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 8: comes back around when you found out this new information, 102 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 8: Was there any indication that it was this big and 103 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 8: there were so many moving. 104 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 6: Parts of this. 105 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 10: Yeah, you should have seen I mean, you see the 106 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 10: I mean, if you saw the press conference, you saw 107 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 10: how many people were involved in the case. Right, This 108 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 10: is a wide ranging case. It started in twenty nineteen, 109 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 10: so they've been working on this case for quite some time. 110 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 10: To your question about this, it boggles the mind that 111 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 10: the NBA says that they closed their investigation and they 112 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 10: found no wrongdoing when you see very clearly the wrongdoing 113 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 10: that was found by federal prosecutors here. The one thing 114 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 10: that's important to notice that federal prosecutors have said that 115 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,680 Speaker 10: the NBA is cooperating in this case. But how is 116 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 10: it that you hire an external law firm and you 117 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 10: have folks look into this. I mean they had an 118 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 10: there was an independent firm that looks into sports betting 119 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 10: irregularities and found the bet and found the specific amount 120 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 10: of money tied to it. So how the NBA was 121 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 10: able was not able to find this is beyond me. 122 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 8: Does that then bring up the conversation of do they 123 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 8: now have to look at every investigation that the NBA 124 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 8: has taken place of and now we're talking we're talking 125 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 8: about the Kawhi Leonard and Clippers investigation that's going on 126 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 8: right now about caps are convention. 127 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 6: Do they then have to look at all the things 128 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 6: the NBA. 129 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 8: Has said that they've investigated and come up with no conclusion. 130 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 10: You know, the US Attorney, I think, was very clear 131 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 10: that this is an ongoing investigation, and I thought what 132 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 10: the FBI director said was really interesting that this is 133 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 10: a major scandal and the and historic and when it 134 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 10: comes to the to the NBA, this is not the 135 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 10: last will hear of this investigation, because it's very clear 136 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 10: that if the NBA has led to do their own 137 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 10: investigations into this and it leads to nothing, and then 138 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 10: you've got all of these FEDS standing up there and 139 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 10: saying we found something and it involved in one instance, 140 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 10: the four of the five crime families in New York, 141 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 10: you know, and talking about organized crime, the mafia in 142 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 10: New York. There is much more to this, and it 143 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 10: didn't just it's not just these three players that are 144 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 10: named here. They're going to continue doing this investigation, and 145 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 10: it is clear that an FBI agent's retiring, you're gonna 146 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,320 Speaker 10: have people retiring from the Eastern District who worked on 147 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 10: these cases. They'll probably go join the NBA, they'll probably 148 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 10: go join some of these law firms to start looking 149 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 10: into these sports books and figuring out just what's happening 150 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 10: as it relates to players and how players are using 151 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 10: the sports books. 152 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: Miles, is this only the beginning? Are we just scratching 153 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: the surface of the impact of sports gambling on major sports. 154 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: I got to believe that the NFL, major League Baseball, 155 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 2: they too have had quote unquote reports that you know, 156 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: maybe this player was taking himself out of games, or 157 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: they were doing some I mean referees, et cetera. You know, 158 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: is there more coming? 159 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 10: Oh, there's certainly more coming, and certainly from the Eastern district, right. 160 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 10: I think it was important to note that this happened 161 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 10: in Brooklyn because of the prior case, and all it 162 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 10: shows me is that it's going to continue to happen. 163 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 10: You know, we we asked about college basketball and college sports, 164 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 10: and they said college sports wasn't involved in this, but 165 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 10: that's not to say that this kind of scheme won't happen. 166 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 10: And when it comes to college sports. He said that 167 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 10: the sports books are the victims in this case. But 168 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 10: it's going to be incumbent on these sports books to 169 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 10: figure out who's making these these these wagers and figure 170 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 10: out if there's any corruption happening when these wagers are happening. 171 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 10: One more thing that's interesting, the waterfront Commission was involved 172 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 10: in this. The Waterfront Commission is one of the oldest 173 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 10: law enforcement agencies in the country, really focused on on 174 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 10: the mob. They're involved in this investigation into NBA players 175 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 10: who are who are doing bets or who are involved 176 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 10: in bets where they take themselves out of games or 177 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 10: go sick or you know, can throw a game. That 178 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 10: is something that should not be looked. 179 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 7: And this is more than just prop bets in the game, 180 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 7: I mean this, The allegations of that are bad enough. 181 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 7: This goes now into the underground poker games where you've 182 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 7: got X ray machines that they're ledging here have been 183 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 7: used to read cards, I mean, and and the mafia 184 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 7: families made millions off of this. According to what the. 185 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 10: Officials are saying, Yeah, I've got them in my bag. 186 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 10: I should have brought them with me. The the the 187 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 10: court documents here literally that you see you can see 188 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 10: through the table, and they had cameras under the table, 189 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 10: so to because with that X basically you're you're playing 190 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 10: on an X ray machine and you could see, you know, 191 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 10: what cards were being dealt. They're watching hand signals, they've 192 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 10: got surveillance in the room, they've got manipulated card machines. 193 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,839 Speaker 10: All of this happening on Washington Washington Street down in 194 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 10: the in the West side of Manhattan and on Lexington 195 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 10: Avenue not far from where we are. So it's really 196 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 10: interest that that organized crime and then they say Italian 197 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 10: organized crime, that's what they're calling it is still alive 198 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 10: and well in New York. And how are they able 199 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 10: to make their money by running these rigged games? And 200 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 10: in some of the cases you see people saying, hey, listen, 201 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 10: what you did was wrong. You know, you took my 202 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 10: money and that kind of thing. And these people are 203 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 10: who are losing tens of millions of dollars. You know, 204 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 10: what do they do? It's the first thing they do. 205 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 10: They call the FBI and they say, hey, we listen, 206 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 10: I was taken and here's who did it, and here's 207 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 10: how it all came together. And all the text messages 208 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 10: are right there, plain as day showing how the scheme worked. 209 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 7: And Vanessa during that press conference, they were saying one 210 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 7: person got taken for one point five million dollars in 211 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 7: a poker game, and they were like, hey, wait a minute, 212 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 7: what's going on here? And then when you didn't pay, 213 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:52,959 Speaker 7: according to the allegations the crime family. 214 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 6: They got tough, they became the crime family. 215 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 9: Right. 216 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 8: Yeah, So, myles, can you just connect the dots there 217 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 8: on how that organized crime and the poker games relate 218 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 8: to this NBA investigations, right. 219 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 10: The easiest way to explain it is that Damon Jones, 220 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 10: a former NBA player, is connected in both schemes. He 221 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 10: was connected to the scheme that involved you know, non 222 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 10: public information and players going out on injuries or illnesses, 223 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 10: pulling himself from games. And he was involved in the 224 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 10: in the card situation where you could see cards on 225 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 10: X ray machines and all that kind of stuff. He 226 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 10: is the link between the NBA and organized crime in 227 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 10: this instance. He's the one who was a connector of 228 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 10: those dots. In addition to that, when it comes to 229 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 10: the card games, you know, they would use these NBA 230 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 10: players to get you know, high quality folks in. Oh, 231 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 10: you've got this NBA player who's going to be you know, 232 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 10: sitting in the game or he's such a face card right. Oh, 233 00:11:58,040 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 10: you know, I'll get to take a picture with him, 234 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 10: and I'll get to spend time, you know, maybe I'll 235 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 10: have a drink with him. 236 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 8: Uh. 237 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 10: And then also trying to use these NBA players to 238 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 10: basically enforce when when you know, when they lose all 239 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 10: this money to say, hey, you know you need to 240 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 10: pay these guys back. It's not all right. And you know, 241 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 10: if you have a big celebrity telling you to do that, 242 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 10: you know you're gonna find any way to do it 243 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 10: so that you're you know, you're not in any more trouble. 244 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,800 Speaker 2: Our thanks to Bloomberg senior reporter Miles Miller for joining us. 245 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 8: Up. 246 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,439 Speaker 7: Next, we stick with the NBA and some controversy surrounding 247 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 7: clipperstar Kawhian Leonard. For Damian's Assauer and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm 248 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 7: Michael Barr. You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of 249 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 7: Sports Bloomberg Radio around the world. 250 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,600 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 251 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 7: This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We explore the 252 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 7: big money issues in the world of sports. 253 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damien's Assauer, and I'm Vanessa Brodemo. 254 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: On top of the illegal gambling program learned about this week, 255 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 2: there's also some controversy brewing in LA with clipperstar Kawhi Leonard. 256 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 8: The NBA is investigating whether the Clippers were able to 257 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 8: work around the league's salary cap to get extra money 258 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 8: to Leonard oh Dear. 259 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 7: Joining us now to talk about it is Bloomberg News 260 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 7: Global Sports Business reporter Ira Gooodway. Ira, Welcome back to 261 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 7: the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 262 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 3: Good to be here. 263 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 7: You said in your article NBA Commissioner Adam Silver has 264 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 7: a Steve Bumer problem. 265 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 3: Explain that, well, the league has recently launched an investigation 266 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 3: into Balmer and the Clippers over allegations that they have 267 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 3: circumvented or tried to circumvent the salary cap. And that 268 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 3: is a big deal in the NBA. It's kind of, 269 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,719 Speaker 3: as Commissioner Silver wants called it, a cardinal sin, and 270 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: so he's gonna have to get to the bottom of this. 271 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: But it's a very tricky situation when you're dealing with 272 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 3: disciplining owners in any sports league, because you work for 273 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 3: the owners as a commissioner. So he's in a bit 274 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:58,959 Speaker 3: of a pickle. 275 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 8: I mean, it's interesting because he came into the league, 276 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,440 Speaker 8: Adam Silver. I mean when he came into the league 277 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 8: and was, you know, started as commissioner, he essentially came 278 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 8: in and based fired one of the owners, banned them 279 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 8: for life, bamed Donald Sterling for life, which is the 280 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 8: team that Steve Baumer then buys. 281 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 6: But he did that pretty swiftly. 282 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 8: And without any issues, right, kind of seemed like everyone 283 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 8: was on his side. 284 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 6: Donald Sterling was in the wrong. 285 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 8: But this is very different. Do you think this is 286 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 8: probably the hardest thing he's had to deal with and 287 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 8: trying to make a decision on this if he is 288 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 8: found guilty. 289 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 3: I mean, it is very different. And we should be 290 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 3: clear that Sterling got in trouble for making racist comments 291 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 3: that were recorded, which is a lot different than trying 292 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: to get around the salary cap. But I think, you know, 293 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 3: it's interesting going back to that moment eleven years ago 294 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 3: when Silver banned Sterling for life, which led to Sterling 295 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: having to sell the Clippers and the buyer with Steve Balmer. 296 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 3: That was interesting because at the time, even though nobody 297 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 3: thought Sterling was in the right or really should own 298 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 3: this team, it was a question and whether Silver had 299 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 3: the authority to force him to sell. And he was 300 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 3: just three months into his tenure and he figured out 301 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: a way to make it happen, and it was pretty bold. First, 302 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 3: he did the lifetime ban, and then they switched the 303 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 3: ownership to Sterling's wife, and then that led to the sale. 304 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 3: So he managed to force a sale without sort of 305 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:19,840 Speaker 3: forcing this question in front of the owners of whether 306 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 3: that was allowed. Now he's got a thing where Balmer 307 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 3: is the wealthiest owner in the league, and he's been 308 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: very active. He's a huge fan, he's front row, he's 309 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 3: always loud, he's very well known, former CEO of Microsoft. 310 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: He just spent two billion dollars of his own money 311 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: to build a new arena for the Clippers, the Into 312 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 3: It Dome that's supposed to host the All Star Game 313 00:15:42,640 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: in February. So it's a very tricky thing because salary 314 00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 3: cap circumvention is a big deal because if teams are 315 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 3: doing it, then your salary cap kind of doesn't really exist. 316 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: Well, I right, we're talking about the integrity of the 317 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 2: league here, right, And so you know you're bringing this 318 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 2: back to the Sterlingsdale in twenty fourteen. I want to 319 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 2: bring it back to nineteen ninety nine, bringing back to 320 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: the Joe Smith fiasco, because that, to my knowledge, is 321 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:08,120 Speaker 2: the last time we had salary capser convention and the penalty. 322 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: If I remember on the Timberwolves was absolutely massive. I mean, 323 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: I think they took four or five first rounders. If 324 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: they do that in today's day and age, which I'm 325 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 2: not suggesting they would, but there is precedent there. I mean, 326 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: that could just pummel the team for a decade an error. Yeah, 327 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,280 Speaker 2: So I mean, like, so is that is that really 328 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 2: what's at risk here? I mean that is a mass. 329 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 2: I mean, the Clippers are one of the most forgive 330 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: me if I'm I don't know the number but valuable 331 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 2: franchises in the NBA, right, I mean top ten for sure, 332 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 2: So I mean what would that do to that? 333 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 6: But I mean it's gotta be not a good thing. 334 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Silver has broad liberty. Heal broad liberty 335 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: to penalize the Clippers, and there is a set of 336 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 3: penalties outlined in the Biolows and the Collective Bargain Agreement 337 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 3: that includes stripping draft picks and Joe Smith, you're right, 338 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 3: they took away five first rounders. Timberwolves got some of 339 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 3: those back later, but but yeah, they can do a 340 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: lot and and all. So he has Silver has liberty 341 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: under the NBA rules to punish owners just for doing 342 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:08,200 Speaker 3: things that that contrary to the interests of the league. 343 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 3: So it really depends what this investigation discovers. So right 344 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 3: now they've got Walktel looking into it. If they come 345 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 3: back and they show very strong evidence that Balmer was 346 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 3: aware of this, that the Clipper somehow directed this, and 347 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 3: this is a side contract or an endorsement contract with 348 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 3: Kawhi Leonard, that's under question that if the Clippers were involved, 349 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 3: then yeah, I think the punishment could be pretty severe 350 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 3: because you have to disincentivize this behavior. So you could 351 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: be talking about lost draft picks, you could be talking 352 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 3: about millions of dollars in fines, and you could be 353 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,200 Speaker 3: talking about voided contracts. So there's a lot of ways 354 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 3: that they can go. It could really damage the Clippers. 355 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 6: So let me ask you this. 356 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: Back in nineteen ninety nine, did David Stern consult with 357 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 2: other owners about that penalty that was? I mean, I 358 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 2: don't know the answer, right, And because my question is 359 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 2: Silver works for the thirty NBA team, not just the Clippers, right, 360 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: So there are twenty nine other owners out there, all 361 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,479 Speaker 2: of whom might want to see Bomber get, you know, 362 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: the max penalty, while others might not because it might 363 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: have an impact on you know, their own you know, 364 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 2: value franchise valuation. So you know, my question is do 365 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 2: you think that Silver would at least take counsel from 366 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,919 Speaker 2: some of the other team owners with whom he works for. 367 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's a very tricky question. I think 368 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 3: right now, he's probably saying, let's let this investigation play out, right, 369 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 3: He needs that to say we commit we paid for 370 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: this independent investigation. We want to see what it says. 371 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: What is the evidence beyond what's been publicly presented by 372 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,959 Speaker 3: Pablo Torre and his podcast, and can we corroborate that 373 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 3: and can we figure out what's really going on here? 374 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a What's interesting is the other owners 375 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 3: are also torn, I think right because on the one hand, 376 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 3: they are Bomber's competitors, they are his rivals. They want 377 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:56,479 Speaker 3: to beat him. Caps or convention is a form of cheating, 378 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 3: they would be pissed about that in theory. On the 379 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: other hand, and they are Balmer's partners. They all share 380 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 3: one thirtieth of an interest in this league, and they 381 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 3: don't necessarily want the league to be damaged. And they 382 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 3: also don't want a precedent where the commissioner has a 383 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: free hand to punish owners because they're an owner too, right, 384 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,600 Speaker 3: And so as his partners in the business, they might 385 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 3: like to see this go away with a slap on 386 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 3: the wrist. As his rivals on the court, they might 387 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 3: like to see the full weight of the law brought 388 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 3: down on Balmer. So that is I think exactly the 389 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 3: dynamic that Silver's going to have to navigate in this moment. 390 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 7: I had forgotten until you had written it that the 391 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 7: NBA salary cap has been in place since nineteen eighty four. 392 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 7: Now today it is at one hundred and fifty five 393 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 7: million dollars per franchise. Quite frankly, that's not much in 394 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 7: today's league. 395 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at how 396 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 3: much money some of these owners have, right, Balmer estimated 397 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 3: net worth one hundred and seventy five billion, So for him, 398 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: you could look at the salary cap as a nuisance, right, 399 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 3: he really wants the Clippers to win. He can only 400 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 3: spend one hundred and fifty five million. You can go 401 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 3: over that through various exceptions. You can pay the luxury 402 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 3: tax and so on, but you're really limited in what 403 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 3: you can spend. And that is why the NBA has 404 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 3: salary cap. Circumvention rules because they know that these incentives 405 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,720 Speaker 3: are in place that Balmer and other owners might really 406 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 3: want to spend more than they're allowed to win, right, 407 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 3: And so yeah, that is the trick here is can 408 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 3: you enforce your salary cap which is there for competitive 409 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 3: balance and to control costs for the league and for owners. 410 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 8: All Right, I'm curious, like if this is really what 411 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,000 Speaker 8: are they looking for? What is harsh evidence here? Can 412 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 8: actually find it? Do they want to find it? Or 413 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,320 Speaker 8: is this going to be something like we've seen before 414 00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:53,959 Speaker 8: that makes huge headlines but nothing really comes of it, 415 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,639 Speaker 8: like when the Astros got caught sign stealing and they 416 00:20:57,720 --> 00:20:58,919 Speaker 8: kind of just skated over it. 417 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 3: Or Yeah, I mean it's really interesting. I do think 418 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 3: the League wants to get to the bottom of it. 419 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 3: What's at stake here is there's this company Aspiration. It's 420 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 3: now bankrupt. Its leader was brought up on federal charges 421 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: for fraud in one of its co founders. He's agreed 422 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 3: to plead guilty. But this company, Aspiration that did like 423 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 3: climate finance. They did a deal with the Clippers to 424 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 3: be a partner in the Intuit Dome, and Balmer invested 425 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 3: fifty million in them. Back in September of twenty twenty one, 426 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: and then after that, Aspiration did a deal with Kawhi Leonard, 427 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 3: an endorsement deal for four years twenty eight million. What's 428 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 3: fishy about that deal is Leonard never really did anything 429 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 3: in public to endorse Aspiration, right, and so it looks 430 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 3: like pay to play potentially. 431 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 6: Clipper. 432 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. According to Pablo Torri, who broke the story on 433 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,560 Speaker 3: his podcast, the contract allows him to not do anything. 434 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 3: As long as he's on the Clippers, he gets paid. 435 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 3: And so what Walktail is going to have to figure 436 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 3: out here is why did Aspiration do that? That's the 437 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 3: central mystery. 438 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 2: Wasn't Kawhi Leonard a super Max to begin with? 439 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 3: So he was on a four year, one hundred and 440 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 3: seventy six million dollar contract extension with the Clippers, which 441 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 3: was an interesting choice. He signed that in twenty twenty one. 442 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 3: He could have done a shorter deal, he could have 443 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 3: to get to a bigger contract sooner. He could have 444 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 3: done a bigger deal at that moment, So it was 445 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 3: sort of a middle path. But yeah, so he this 446 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 3: side deal, if it is in fact a side deal, 447 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 3: and that's what that's what we need to figure out 448 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 3: is Aspiration doing this on behalf of the Clippers. Is 449 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 3: it a way to pay Kawhi off the books or 450 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 3: were they just doing what looks like a really stupid 451 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 3: endorsement deal right on its. 452 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 6: Facebook from the perspective, Kawhi Leonard, right and. 453 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 3: Right, Kawhi Leonard, Yeah, why not take it? It's twenty 454 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 3: eight million dollars for what looks like a no show 455 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 3: kind of arrangement, you know, over four years. But I 456 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 3: think that's what we got to solve here. Is there 457 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 3: another explanation for why Aspiration is doing this deal? Now, 458 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 3: this is a company that did do a lot of 459 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: fraudulent stuff, including some funny dealings with influencers and other celebrities, 460 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: So maybe there are other explanations here. It's also possible, 461 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,439 Speaker 3: and this is just me speculating like that Aspiration wanted 462 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 3: to do this for the Clippers without the Clippers knowing it, 463 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 3: right that they were like, ooh, they would love it 464 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 3: if we did a deal with Kawhi and we paid 465 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 3: him more than he's worth, because that would you know, 466 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,159 Speaker 3: But the Clippers never asked for any of this. What 467 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 3: Balmer has said is I made the introduction, right, I 468 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 3: was an investor in aspiration Kawhi Leonards my player. I 469 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 3: put the two together and they went off and made 470 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 3: a deal that I didn't know about, that had no 471 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640 Speaker 3: control over, and I didn't know the terms. So that's 472 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 3: what we got to sort through now. 473 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 7: And I should add first of all that mister Balmer 474 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 7: said that, look, I didn't do anything wrong right. Clippers 475 00:23:56,840 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 7: are saying we didn't do anything wrong and saying the 476 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 7: same thing, I didn't do anything right. And even Adam 477 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,640 Speaker 7: Silver when it came out in the press conference afterwards, said, look, 478 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 7: the burden of proof that something went wrong is on 479 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 7: the league. Yeah. I mean, I don't forgive me for 480 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 7: using it. It's like a Perry Mason case. You know, 481 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 7: it's like, Okay, you've got to prove that this actually happened, 482 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 7: the bad dealings. Yeah. 483 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 3: So he said, basically, the mere appearance of impropriety wouldn't 484 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 3: be enough here. And so that is really the question. 485 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 3: It's kind of like, what is the It's not a 486 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 3: legal case in the sense of it's just up to 487 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 3: the league enforcing its own rules, So what are the 488 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:40,719 Speaker 3: how much evidence do they need? What is the burden 489 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 3: of proof? Is it beyond a reasonable doubt? Like this 490 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 3: is all basically what Silver is going to have to 491 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 3: look at what they come back with and make those choices. 492 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: You know, it's not a court of law, it's it's 493 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 3: a it's an NBA commissioner. 494 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 8: Well, we've been talking a lot about what would happen 495 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 8: to Steve Baumer in that decision. But if this is 496 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 8: found to be true, what would happen to Kuhi? Is 497 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:02,960 Speaker 8: there something that would happen to him? 498 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 3: I mean, theoretically they could avoid his contract. I think 499 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,720 Speaker 3: I doubt that would be the outcome here. I think 500 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 3: they'd want to punish the franchise and the owner. You know, 501 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 3: that's just my guess our. 502 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,480 Speaker 8: Thanks to Aira Budwey for joining us. He's Bloomberg News 503 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,119 Speaker 8: Global sports reporter. You can find his reporting on the 504 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,359 Speaker 8: terminal and online at Bloomberg dot com. 505 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 7: Coming up, we turned that F one and a new 506 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 7: big money partnership between Carlyle and the Oracle, Red Bull 507 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 7: Racing two, the Damien Sasaur and Vanessa Pernomo. I'm Michael Barr. 508 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 7: You are listening to the Bloomberg Business of Sports Bloomberger 509 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 7: Radio around the world. 510 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio. 511 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 7: Thank you for joining us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports, 512 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 7: where we explore the big money issues in the world 513 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:52,920 Speaker 7: of sports. 514 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 2: I'm Michael Barr, I'm Damien Sasaur, and I'm Vanessa Prodomo. 515 00:25:56,040 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 7: Carlyle recently announced a new partnership with Oracle Red Bull Racing, 516 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 7: becoming it's exclusive investment management partner. 517 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: It is the first ever partnership between a Formula one 518 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 2: racing team and a leading global private markets firm. 519 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 7: And joining us now to talk more about the deal 520 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 7: is Danny Berger. Danny, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 521 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 6: Thank you so much. 522 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,120 Speaker 7: Oh my good Now, you had did an interview recently. Well, 523 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 7: you talked to Carlisle CEO, and you also talked with 524 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,160 Speaker 7: the Oracle Red Bull Racing team principal. 525 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 9: That's right. 526 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 7: Tell us about that. 527 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,720 Speaker 4: Well, Carlisle, for an undisclosed amount of money, but probably 528 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 4: a very large sum of money, has become a sponsor 529 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 4: of Red Bull Racing. Typically, when you think about the sponsors, 530 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 4: a lot of tech companies, Oracle, for example, is one 531 00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 4: of the main sponsors of Red Bull one password a. 532 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 6: Lot of tech companies. 533 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 4: Rarely do you get capital coming from financial giants like Carlisle. 534 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 4: But Carlisle nonetheless signed this deal, they became a title 535 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 4: sponsor of them. I went down to the F one 536 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 4: to interview both of them and basically ask one. 537 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 6: Why would you do this? 538 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 4: Why would you spend so much money on something incredibly flashy, 539 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,920 Speaker 4: and just generally to ask red Bull, hey, what's going 540 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 4: on with the team? How are you thinking about twenty 541 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 4: twenty six? And same goes for the Carlisle CEO. 542 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 7: Too, and Vanessa Danny did that interview and we have 543 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 7: a clip of that. Let's give a listen to it. 544 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,720 Speaker 5: The last thirty years, you've seen a remarkable development of 545 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 5: private markets. Private markets are really the primary source of 546 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 5: capital for many companies. As that capital continues to grow, 547 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 5: the market has just evolved to a place where wealth retail. 548 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 5: The breath of what we do globally is just evolved also, 549 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 5: and this is just part of the natural evolution. While 550 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 5: it might feel unique now, I think it's actually not 551 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 5: revolutionary at all. It's really just quite evolutionary. 552 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 6: And why move that way? With Red Bull specifically? 553 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 5: That was pretty easy. Everything about Oracle red Bull Racing 554 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 5: is about performance, execution, excellence, so that part was very 555 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 5: easy to see and very easy to relate to as 556 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 5: a firm. The sport F one is also global and 557 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 5: growing dramatically as we know as our private markets, and 558 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,439 Speaker 5: so that all aligned. What made this really special was 559 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 5: when Laurent and I spent time together, the teams spend 560 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 5: time together, and it was almost like this sort of very, 561 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 5: i don't know, uniquely natural affinity where we all just 562 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 5: became best friends really quickly, and so hey, it's got 563 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 5: to be fun too, but it is about performance excellence 564 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 5: first and foremost. 565 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: I was going to say, Laurn, given what Harvey is 566 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 4: saying that the finance world in general has been more 567 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 4: interested in sport, more interested in F one, have you 568 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 4: been fielding a lot of calls before this partnership from 569 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 4: Harvey's peers who wanted to get in like he did. 570 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,480 Speaker 11: You know, in reality, no, it's felt very natural straight 571 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 11: away with got with Harvey. You know, it's this moment 572 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 11: where you realize that as a personal new talking quize 573 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 11: as the best at what they do in the world, 574 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 11: and you know, we feel we are quite good at 575 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 11: what we do, and what we see with our partners 576 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 11: is that we go and try to partners with companies 577 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 11: that are the best at what they do, and we 578 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,000 Speaker 11: had a lot more points of connections were we had 579 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 11: these these performence obsessions. We have this data driven approach 580 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 11: in our very different business, but together with that quest 581 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 11: for perfections in everything we are doing, it felt like 582 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 11: a very very natural connections. 583 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 4: To be fair Harvey, there have been some outspoken critics 584 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 4: about the move for private capital to do sponsorships to 585 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 4: get invested in sports. Josh Easterly of Sixth Street said 586 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:41,240 Speaker 4: at a conference a couple of weeks ago, it's representive 587 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: to him that firms are more concentrated on fine tuning 588 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 4: their brand than on the returns themselves. 589 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 3: What do you say to that criticism. 590 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 5: Our business is exactly where they'ren't just described it. It's 591 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 5: first and foremost always about performance. Performance drives everything. If 592 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 5: you have performance, you have success. Again, think about everything 593 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 5: they do at Oracle Red Bull Racing. It's all oriented 594 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 5: around success. When he references data, we think about data, 595 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 5: it's different data, but these are organizations driven around performance excellence. 596 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 5: If you don't have performance, you don't have success. In 597 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 5: terms of the partnership here, yeah, this is important to 598 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 5: be able to reach a global audience. You know, you 599 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 5: mentioned sport before. There's a real desire in the world 600 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 5: for people to come together around sport, and this is 601 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 5: truly one of the fastest growing sports in the world. 602 00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 2: That's Bloomberg TV host Danny Berger speaking with Carlile CEO, 603 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 2: Harvey Schwartz and Oracle Red Bull Racings Laurent McKeith. 604 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 8: Danny, I'm curious in your interview you talked to Carlisle 605 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:45,520 Speaker 8: about them being forward facing and how that was kind 606 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,960 Speaker 8: of different for them, and this was a different opportunity. 607 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:50,720 Speaker 6: And we've seen private equity. 608 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 8: Come into sports a lot, but it's a different way, right. 609 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 8: This is sponsorship, This isn't investment necessarily equity. 610 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 6: So what did you gather from that part of. 611 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 4: The That is just spot on because to your point, 612 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 4: usually when we think about private equity and sports, it's 613 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 4: that they want to make money out of it. This 614 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,479 Speaker 4: is literally the opposite, right, like they're throwing money at it. 615 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 4: And it's a very different Carlisle and a different industry 616 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 4: in general, because usually you think private capital, it's this 617 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 4: exclusive club it's hard to get into. You have the 618 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 4: biggest institutions in the world, be it pensions or sovereign 619 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,160 Speaker 4: wealth funds coming to them to buy their portfolios. Now 620 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 4: something has changed. They want to sell it. They don't 621 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 4: want it to be a. 622 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 6: Product that's bought. They wanted to be a product that's sold. 623 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 4: And they're trying to sell Okay, maybe not everyday people, 624 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 4: but every day people who have lots of money. They're 625 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 4: trying to sell it to high net worth individuals. They're 626 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 4: hoping that for oh one k's will open up to 627 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 4: private equity too. So all of a sudden, they're realizing 628 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 4: it's not enough that this sovereign wealth fund in the 629 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 4: Middle East. 630 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,240 Speaker 6: Knows who we are. We need more everyday people to 631 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 6: know who we are. 632 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,880 Speaker 4: So when they're thinking about, Okay, I've got extra money, 633 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 4: usually I just put that in ETFs. Maybe instead I 634 00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 4: go to my wealth advisor and try to get into 635 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 4: a Carlisle fund. So, all of a sudden, to your point, 636 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 4: they're really front facing. They're trying to show a more 637 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 4: friendly and maybe more sporty face. And it's not just 638 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 4: them doing it. Blue Owl, for example, they sponsor tennis players, 639 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 4: they sponsor golf players. Apolo also sponsors golf players too, 640 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 4: So you're seeing this become start to become a trend 641 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 4: in the industry. 642 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: Well, Danny, let's put some numbers around that. Oracle, who 643 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:24,479 Speaker 2: is Red Bull's main sponsor, sixty million dollars a year, Vanessa, 644 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 2: can you believe that? And they've got Honda, they've got 645 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 2: FOURD Visa And that's just just the tip of the surface. Now, 646 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,040 Speaker 2: you know, this is the business sports, So let's talk 647 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 2: about it. 648 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 7: Right. 649 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: The f one just did a deal with Apple TV 650 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 2: where they got their media rights up to one hundred 651 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: and forty million dollars a year over five years. So 652 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: clearly there's something there, right, I mean, I mean, I 653 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: think that's a huge increase. It's a huge bump, bump bump. 654 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 2: But you know so Carlisle, David Rubinstein, I mean, these 655 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:50,240 Speaker 2: they know how to, you know, get around a deal table, 656 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 2: and they know what a good investment looks like, so 657 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: they must see something here. 658 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 4: Now. I think it's kind of key that they did 659 00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 4: this deal after Christian Horner left. Christian Horner left not 660 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 4: because of controversy, but he left in a fog of 661 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 4: controversy with accusations of sexual misconduct. And it'd be hard 662 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 4: to imagine a scenario where even though that was investigated 663 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 4: by the team and nothing came out of it that 664 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 4: you'd have a private capital giant like Carlisle be comfortable 665 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 4: with investing in the team and in Laura Mecky's you 666 00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 4: have a team principle. 667 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 6: I was there. 668 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 4: I saw the two interact. You kind of got the 669 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 4: feeling they were almost friends, even though they were so different. 670 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 4: I mean, Harvey Schwartz cutting his teeth on Wall Street 671 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 4: at one point being floated as the next CEO of 672 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 4: Goldman Sachs. Meanwhile, this French engineering nerd. It's not exactly 673 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 4: a combo that you would expect, but the two of 674 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 4: them really got along and they kind of love to say, 675 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,880 Speaker 4: look completely different businesses, but we're obsessed with performance, We're 676 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 4: obsessed with data. So you have this feeling that Carlisle 677 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 4: is being really deliberate in how it puts its brand 678 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,200 Speaker 4: out there, and they were really deliberate in choosing Red Bull, 679 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 4: which I should say, even though they're not leading the 680 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 4: pack but Ethlyn. Right now, they are are getting closer 681 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 4: with their driver, Max firs Stoppin kind of wearing down 682 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 4: the gap between them and the McLaren driver. 683 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 2: You just took the words out of my mouth they 684 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 2: are fourth in the constructors now this year, right, I 685 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: mean behind you know obviously McLaren, but Mercedes in Ferrari 686 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 2: as well. And for Stappan is now three in the 687 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 2: driver's rankings, although that win in Austin obviously ranked them 688 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,520 Speaker 2: back up. He's now contesting again. I think there's I 689 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 2: think he has enough chance ybe. He does, and obviously 690 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 2: was because of my interview with the team of course, 691 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 2: of course right right, inspiration without question. So so I 692 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: mean so again you know there is a lot of 693 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 2: value there. I guess is the points of Carlisle actually 694 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 2: sees that. 695 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 7: Michael Barr No, yes, you you are exactly right. 696 00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 8: So when you're thinking about it and after talking with them, 697 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 8: do you see the link between Formula one and private equity? 698 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,480 Speaker 8: Do you see the value in this sponsorship? 699 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 4: I think it's interesting because okay, so people when they 700 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 4: I talk to people after this sponsorship and they said, 701 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,359 Speaker 4: what a weird move from Carlisle to go after F one? 702 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 4: They want to reach more people? Is an f aren't 703 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,920 Speaker 4: F one fans just the typical billionaire class and people 704 00:34:57,960 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 4: they already have. 705 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:00,879 Speaker 6: F one has changed so much. 706 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 4: I myself am a huge F one fan I watch 707 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,960 Speaker 4: every single race, and I am a woman in my thirties. 708 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 4: I am maybe not what you typically picture for the 709 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 4: F one fan, but I am increasingly becoming what the 710 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,959 Speaker 4: F one fan looks like. After the success of Drive 711 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,800 Speaker 4: to Survive on Netflix, the F one fans are more female, 712 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,360 Speaker 4: they are younger. So it's a really interesting type of 713 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 4: person that Carlisle is actually capturing here. And I think 714 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,400 Speaker 4: in that vein they do see a unique opportunity because 715 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:34,280 Speaker 4: of the growing audience and Damian, you mentioned Apple getting 716 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,240 Speaker 4: the rights to F one. There you go, a whole 717 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:39,760 Speaker 4: new audience too, potentially coming in. It is a growing 718 00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 4: sport and a growing audience. 719 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 2: Based well, Danie, and I'll just give it to you 720 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 2: right now. Read Singapore, Abu Dhabi, Dubai. I mean, I mean, 721 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 2: the list goes at Baku, the list goes on and on. 722 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 2: So for Carlisle to penetrate some of these international financial markets, yeah, 723 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:56,840 Speaker 2: I get it. 724 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 6: You know, I see the benefit of it for sure. 725 00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 6: Now let's just see if they can bring it to 726 00:35:59,760 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 6: the track. 727 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 7: Michael Barr, Oh see, you know what I remember, I'm 728 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,879 Speaker 7: old and and and when you reminded me, he said, 729 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 7: I'm a lady in my thirty Well, I didn't want 730 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 7: to know how old someone snowed on my head. I 731 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 7: remember when Jackie Stewart and I know you're gonna see 732 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 7: who the hell is that? No, Jackie Stewart man one 733 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 7: of the greatest racing drivers of all time, that's right, 734 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 7: And he had a car that had six wheels on it. 735 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 7: He really did. It was like two four in the 736 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 7: front and then there was the two in the back. 737 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,760 Speaker 7: That's how far I go, which brings me to how 738 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,359 Speaker 7: far has F one changed since old man bar Would 739 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,000 Speaker 7: got into it? 740 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,480 Speaker 6: Well, do you want to talk about the car. 741 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:47,080 Speaker 10: Or the teams? 742 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,439 Speaker 2: I mean, did Harvey Schwartz promise us a team kid? 743 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,279 Speaker 2: You know, Michael Barr could use. 744 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 6: A nice little team kit to wear to the office. 745 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 4: I'm sure we could arrange that. They would be so thrilled. 746 00:36:56,640 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 4: If Carlisle on the side, I think they would absolutely 747 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 4: love that. Now the sport has changed so much. You 748 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 4: could talk about the audience, the money behind it with 749 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,120 Speaker 4: this with other investments in there, with the type of audience, 750 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 4: but also the cars themselves. They have changed so much 751 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:13,719 Speaker 4: and they change every year. And I think one thing 752 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 4: that they've really concentrate on is the safety of the car. 753 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,160 Speaker 4: They now have these halos around it to make sure 754 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 4: if the car rolls over, the driver is safe. Literally 755 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 4: every single aspect of this has changed, and I think 756 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 4: one of the biggest changes again is the American audience. 757 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 4: We had again Austin, There's Miami, There's Vegas, which is 758 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,799 Speaker 4: an insane race and is literally the most American thing 759 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 4: you could think of because of the spectacle behind it. 760 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 4: But yeah, literally every aspect of the sport, it is 761 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 4: changing and changing fast. 762 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 7: Danny, you are a friend of the show, I believe, 763 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,279 Speaker 7: and you can come back anytime you want. 764 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,799 Speaker 6: Michael again, I mean it. I'm honored. Thank you so much. 765 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: I'm back and help us, Danny. 766 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 8: Yes, yeah, our thanks to Danny Berger for joining us. 767 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,120 Speaker 7: And that does it for this edition of The Bloomberg 768 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:03,200 Speaker 7: Business of Sports. Damien Sassar and Vanessa Perdomo. I'm Michael Barr. 769 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,400 Speaker 7: Tune in again next week for the latest on the 770 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 7: stories moving big old money in the world of sports. 771 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 2: And don't forget to catch our podcast on all of 772 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 2: your podcast platforms. 773 00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 7: You are listening to The Bloomberg Business of Sports from 774 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 7: Bloomberger Radio around the world.