WEBVTT - Future of Gaming and Amazon Union Loss 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.560 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.880 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:27.400 Emily Jay. I'm Emily Jack in San Francisco, and this 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:29.920 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour. A 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:34.080 David versus Goliath struggle continues between Amazon and its workers. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:37.640 The retail giant just defeated a push to unionize a 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:41.000 second New York warehouse, just weeks after the union one 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:44.680 at another warehouse across the street. We will have all 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.960 the details, Plus Warren Buffett discloses a massive sake in 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.479 act Division in a merger arbitrage play. Does the deal 0:00:52.520 --> 0:00:55.560 with Microsoft go through? We'll have a wide ranging conversation 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:59.880 with former Nintendo CEO Reggie m about the rapidly evolving 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:05.279 gaming landscape and media stocks Light, Netflix, Spotify and met 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:07.840 It all down more than fift so far this year. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.360 What's a good business and media right now? We'll ast Light, Sheds, 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.480 Rich Greenfield, all of that in a moment before let's 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:16.600 turned out to another part of the Amazon narrative, with 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.160 workers at a facility in New York having voted not 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:23.240 to join an upstart union. This just weeks after the 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:26.360 group one a historic victory at a warehouse right across 0:01:26.360 --> 0:01:29.800 the street. Bloomberg Spencer Soper, who covers Amazon Forest joins 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.280 us now Spencer, given that the union just one across 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:38.160 the street, what happened here? Yeah, that's a great question, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:43.160 And you know, it's tough to really make big sweeping 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:45.680 conclusions out of this. You know, the question was is 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:47.760 the is the union going to build on the momentum 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:50.280 from the last vote or or supper setback? And we 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.760 just see that they suffered a setback. Precisely what that 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.720 means for their overall drive and overall momentum, we we 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.720 just we just don't know. And um, these things take 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:05.120 months to finally unraveled because they're generally contested, uh and 0:02:05.200 --> 0:02:08.200 the n l RB process is extremely slow. So we've 0:02:08.240 --> 0:02:11.760 still got a union vote that was denied twice in 0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.560 Bessemer that's still being litigated. And then we've got the 0:02:14.680 --> 0:02:17.799 union vote that was approved at this other facility recently 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:20.120 that that Amazon is contesting. So we're just gonna have 0:02:20.160 --> 0:02:22.919 a lot of I think a lot more of these 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.880 as as we look forward, And truly, not every warehouse 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:29.560 is the same. Could it be that conditions are simply 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:35.600 different in different warehouses. UM, it could be this was uh, 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.639 I think more of a sort center, whereas the initial 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.080 one was one of these bigger fulfillment centers. And also, 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:43.639 let's just I think that maybe people have this false 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.400 notion that UM, it's big community of people. You know, 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.200 people go to these facilities are specific places they work, 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.960 they clock in, they clock out, they go home. There's 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:58.040 not necessarily some big community that that congregates UM. And 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:01.840 that's that's really up for the union now to to uh, 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:04.480 to make that happen, to to increase that kind of 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:07.639 solidarity among among the workers and the and the big 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.600 thing against them is UM, a lot of people just 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.040 don't can be fairly apathetic, you know, maybe they don't 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:15.880 want to have this job for very long and don't 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:19.600 see them see it being worth um trying to to unionize, 0:03:19.600 --> 0:03:21.280 and then they just question if they gotta pay dues, 0:03:21.320 --> 0:03:23.360 what are they getting? What are they getting in exchange 0:03:23.400 --> 0:03:26.560 for paying dudes? Well, one person who's not ampathetic is 0:03:26.639 --> 0:03:30.320 Chris Smalls, who was really critical in that initial union 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:34.000 victory at the warehouse across the street. Amazon is trying 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:37.040 to overturn that one. Right now, what is the status 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:40.760 of that. Yeah, so there's going to be hearing later 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.640 in the month. Amazon lobbed concerns that, um, you know, 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.880 people were allowed to get too close to the voting 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:48.560 when it when it occurred, and even the media was 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.040 allowed to get too close to the voting when it occurred. Um, 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.080 there's all these various things. Is supposed to be a 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:56.960 pristine process where the workers are allowed to voice their 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.360 thoughts without any fear of reprisal or intimidation, that kind 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:02.480 of thing. And so so Amazon is trying to throw 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.400 some allegations that that this was not a pristine process. 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.800 So we'll see where that. We'll see where that goes. 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.000 All right, you will keep us updated. Spencer Soaper, thank 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:23.760 you so much. Chairs of Activision. Blizzard jumped in US 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.280 trading after warm Buffetts, Berkshire Hathaway raised its steake in 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.720 the video GameMaker. Berkshire now once about nine and a 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.800 half percent of Activision stock. That is up considerably from 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.560 the less than two percent steak the company held at 0:04:35.600 --> 0:04:37.960 the end of last year. Buffett betting on the merger 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:41.560 between Activision and Microsoft, that still has plenty of hurdles 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:43.760 to clear. And my next guest knows a sing or 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:46.160 two about the world of gaming. I'm joined now by 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.720 Reggie vs M, a former president and CEO of Nintendo, 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:52.280 who is also out with a new book, Disrupting the 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.400 Game From the Bronx to the Top of Nintendo. Reggie, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.320 great to have you back here on the show. Um, So, 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.520 your book chronicles the rise of Nintendo and how you 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:05.080 navigated a lot of different disruptive forces. I'm so curious 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.719 now looking back and it's been almost twenty years since 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:09.960 you joined the company. What do you don't know now 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.600 that could help some of the folks navigating the drama 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:17.760 in the gaming industry today. Well, first, Emily, thanks for 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:22.200 having me. You know that the gaming industry constantly undergoes 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:25.880 so much change. There's always new technology, there's always new 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:27.880 forms of gaming. I mean, if you if you think 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:31.400 about a game like Fortnite, it didn't exist five years ago. 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:34.440 So there's always something new, something coming around the corner. 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.719 As as I continue to be engaged with the gaming industry, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:43.120 you're constantly thinking about what's next. Where are the new 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.160 technologies going to take you and how do you continue 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.119 growing the business moving forward? You know, you talk about 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.239 the activision Microsoft potential merger. You know, I do believe 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.240 there's going to continue to be consolidation in the overall 0:05:56.320 --> 0:05:59.480 gaming industry space. But I also believe it's going to 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.840 give eies to new smaller studios that are going to 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.080 be even more aggressive and bringing new types of content 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.640 out to the marketplace. So the bigger going to continue 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.599 getting bigger, but they're going to be really innovative smaller 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.440 players coming into the market as well. So let's talk 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.599 about Activision for a moment. What do you make of 0:06:18.680 --> 0:06:22.200 Warren Buffett's stake here, because a number of investors don't 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.039 seem to think this deal is actually going to happen, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:27.240 do you. I do think the deal is going to happen. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.239 When you look at the overall combined entity, it makes 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:36.240 the new combined business one of the top three gaming businesses, 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.320 but not the number one industry that that position is 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.200 still held I believe by Apple, with Sony not too 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.359 far behind. So it's not a situation where the merger 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.279 is going to create the new biggest player on the block. 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.200 And as I said earlier, I think they're going to 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:55.600 be other types of mergers, other entities that are going 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.000 to continue growing within the overall space. So I do 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:02.560 think it passes all of the anti trust hurdles. But 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:05.960 as you said, this has a long way to play out. Now, 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:08.560 you recently told me that you're a big believer in 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:12.520 blockchain technology. You see that as a big opportunity in 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:14.840 the gaming world. Can you walk this out a little further? 0:07:14.960 --> 0:07:20.280 How you see this benefiting players and the developer ecosystem. 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:23.760 What I believe blockchain technology can do is that it 0:07:24.120 --> 0:07:28.400 can create a ed ability for new types of different 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:32.120 games to be created, games where you're actually playing to 0:07:32.320 --> 0:07:35.480 own a piece of content. I also believe that the 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:40.320 blockchain will enable developers to potentially create new types of 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:44.520 different games. Just as augmented reality gave rise to games 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.400 like Pokemon Go, I believe this fundamental technology can give 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.600 rise to new and different types of games. Now what 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:55.440 has to happen, though, is that fundamentally the games need 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:58.280 to be fun, they need to be worth playing. Technology 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:02.080 by itself doesn't necessary create new forms of content, but 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.520 it enables new and different types of play to come 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:07.840 to bear. So that's what I believe is going to happen. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.560 When you look at blockchain as a technology and what 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.880 it could do for game could that, though, eliminate intermediaries 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:19.320 one day, like big gaming studios. I don't think it 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:23.120 eliminates the big gaming studio, but I do think it 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:28.560 changes the payment mechanism, It changes maybe how retailers can 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.880 participate in this industry. I think that's where there's a 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:36.480 bigger risk for great game creators, great development studios. As 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:40.520 long as they're developing novel content that speaks to the consumer, 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.880 I think they're going to be fine. I'd be more 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.679 concerned if I was a retailer in this space and 0:08:45.720 --> 0:08:49.760 what that looks like five years, ten years from now now. Nintendo, 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:54.880 for example, has traditionally avoided giving players control of game 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:59.880 data in game items. Do you see something like that changing? You? Know? So, 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.960 I would say that Nintendo has evolved to do much 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:07.840 more downloadable types of content, much more digital content. There 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:12.079 really is no gaming company out there today that truly 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:15.920 lets its players own all of the content. Once a 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:21.120 game potentially comes off of a developers uh systems, all 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.959 of the mechanisms where they're updating the games. Once that happens, 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.280 then the players always at risk for potentially losing their content, 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:33.000 losing what they've spent potentially years building which is why 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:36.720 I think blockchain can change that dynamic so that when 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.080 I create something, I truly can own it forever, which 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.480 I think is very very appealing to it to a 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:47.400 gamer today. Speaking of new technology on the horizon, I 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.280 recently interviewed you at south By Southwest and you had 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:55.480 some very controversial remarks about meta and Mark Zuckerberg's vision 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:58.640 for the metaverse. I want to replay a portion of 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:02.160 what you had to say. Then take a listen. I'm 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.080 not a buyer of that idea. I don't think that 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:10.960 their current definition is going to be successful. Why do 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.440 I say that. I say that because, first, you know, 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:16.720 and I don't know if anyone from Facebook is here, 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:22.480 but you you have to admit that Facebook itself is 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:28.080 not an innovative company. Facebook is not an innovative company. 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.800 You can see my face there. Uh in response to 0:10:31.400 --> 0:10:35.160 um that remark, I'm curious what reaction you've had to 0:10:35.320 --> 0:10:40.000 that assessment since well, so let me just finish the thought, right, So, 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.960 what I said was that Facebook has been a fast forward, right. 0:10:43.960 --> 0:10:48.760 They've typically taken other initiatives and pushed them forward. They've 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:50.920 been an acquire You look at some of the things 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.240 that they're doing. For example, with Instagram, they acquired that business. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:11:00.760 The only piece of of completely new tech or completely 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.680 no idea that they did was the very first social network. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:06.400 So that's where I was coming from when I said 0:11:06.440 --> 0:11:11.600 that today Meta I wouldn't qualify as an innovative company. 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.160 What I found shocking was the amount of people who 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:17.920 agreed with that statement and with the statement overall that 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.400 the other reasons why I believe their vision of the metaverse, 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:23.560 the fact that they don't partner very well, the fact 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:25.920 that they don't have a lot of credibility or have 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.840 suffered credibility issues with the consumer. These all affect the 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:35.520 concept of the metaverse, where ideally you have one overall environment, 0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:39.080 it's digital in nature, there's a common currency. All of 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.720 these things are fundamental to at least my vision of 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.560 the metaverse. And this is where I see that Meta 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:48.840 as a company has some issues. So I wonder if 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.560 there are any metaverse companies that you like. You know, 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.680 it's been interesting some folks are saying, you know, more 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:57.079 traditional quote unquote gaming companies like Nintendo. The stock is 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.280 lagging because investors are focusing on other company these that 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:03.199 are promoting their visions of the metaverse, whether it is 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.560 Roadblocks or in Vidio meta shares. To be fair, I've 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.000 really suffered. What do you think of that assessment and 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.880 the pace of innovation at some of these other companies, 0:12:12.880 --> 0:12:16.920 including Nintendo, which you know isn't trumpeting its vision for 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.040 the metaverse. Yeah, so I think there's a number of 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:24.160 different things. I do think companies like Epic, who are 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:27.560 the parent company for Fortnite, are doing some very interesting 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:33.480 things with that platform and introducing avatars and having events 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:38.400 within its space, which is very meta like. I also 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:42.400 believe that Roadblocks has the potential to really push on 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.080 this area quite aggressively. I think the market is down 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:51.920 on Nintendo in part because while the Nintendo Switch continues 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.000 doing exceptionally well, they've already announced that their software sales 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.880 are going to be down in the current fiscal. They're 0:12:57.920 --> 0:12:59.760 hinting that they're going to be some challenges in the 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.800 next fiscal. I think that's why investors are reacting to 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.480 that particular stock in terms of where they see it 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.600 going over the next twelve or eighteen months. In terms 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:12.280 of other companies that I think are doing some really 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:15.640 interesting things. You know, as I said with you on stage. 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.040 I think there are a number of smaller companies, privately 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.240 held companies that are doing very interesting things in this 0:13:21.400 --> 0:13:23.960 space that will come to light over the lex number 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:28.360 of months. Any advice for the Nintendo leadership today? You know, 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.240 I am still on very good terms with all of 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:35.280 my my peers and my friends over at Nintendo. Whatever 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.760 they call me for advice, which isn't too often. I've 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:40.280 been away from that business three years now. I give 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.360 them lots of my opinion. But look, the Nintendo Switch 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.840 is on the verge of becoming the best selling Nintendo 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:51.120 system of all time, So that speaks a lot to 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:53.880 all of the momentum they have today on that business 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.959 and all of the wonderful content they're created. So last 0:13:57.000 --> 0:13:58.840 good question, I want to ask you about Netflix, because 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.440 since we talked, we saw Netflix Blue subscribers for the 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.800 first time in a decade. A lot of folks concerned 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.920 about the future of the streaming business. Has streaming hit 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.440 its peak? I actually don't believe that streaming has hit 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.760 its peak. I think there's a number of different factors 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:17.880 going on. Specifically two uh Netflix, There's a lot of 0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:21.040 new players in the streaming space. I do think they 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.960 need to take another look at their overall strategy for 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:27.400 how they air their content. I personally believe that binging 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.800 maybe has become a little passe. You look at what 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:34.480 HBO and other players are doing as they come back 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.520 to having appointment TV and having a piece of content 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:40.920 airing on a regular day on a regular schedule. I 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:42.600 think those are some of the things that they may 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:47.960 need to look at versus a complete overhaul of their programming. Interesting. 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.960 Reggie Fees may uh interesting advice for the Netflix team. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.080 Appreciate you as always taking the time to join us. 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.880 Author of a new book, Disrupting the Game from the 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:02.040 Bronx to the Top of Nintendo available coming up. Could 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.960 cyber threats be the greatest threat we face? We're gonna 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:08.920 have more on what the war in Ukraine is teaching 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:22.880 us about cybersecurity next. This is Bloomberg as the War 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.920 in Ukraine reaches on a recent report from Microsoft says 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:30.000 Russia has carried out hundreds of cyber operations, including destructive attacks, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:34.360 against Ukraine throughout its invasion. This an effort to degrade 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.920 Ukraine's government and military and to undermine the public's trust 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.440 in those institutions. Want to talk about what it all 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.040 means for the future of cybersecurity abroad and here at 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:44.880 home with Camille Stewart. She is the Global head of 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.040 Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, great to have you 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:52.000 with us. I'm so curious what Google has seen in 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.920 in in light of the war in Ukraine. Have you 0:15:55.000 --> 0:15:59.920 seen a big uptick in cyber attacks? Yes. We are 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:05.600 are focused on elevating information to help the folks on 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:09.760 the ground in Ukraine understand what threats are headed their way. UM. 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:13.200 We have provided a lot of support in Poland as well, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:18.600 and are leveraging Android bones to provide some of those 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:22.160 air rapid alerts that folks need to stay safe. So 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:24.120 we've seen a lot of activity across a number of 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:27.360 different vectors and are providing support in any way that 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:33.880 we can. So how specifically have attacks ramped up? So 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:39.560 most attacks are locally targeted, and we're seeing UM some 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:45.640 activity around UM misinformation and disinformation around UM the the 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.160 war in the campaign UM, access to information has been 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:52.520 limited and those things are causing some churn. We've seen 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.600 a little bit of activity targeting UM Ukraine infrastructure, but 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.880 not as much as anyone had predicted before when they started. 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:05.840 But we're definitely seeing some activity now. John Cocho from 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:09.360 the Department of Homeland Security recently had this to say, 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:10.960 And I know you also worked at the Department of 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.720 Homeland Security under President Obama, So I want you to 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.119 take a quick listen. You know, five years ago, the 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:22.200 biggest threat to our country was isis inspired massive acts 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:24.679 of violence here that's no longer the case. The biggest 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.320 threat to our country I from homeland security standpoint, and 0:17:27.359 --> 0:17:31.400 really national security of cyber actors attacking us. And at 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:36.080 Homeland Security, that's what we're doing seven Representative John Cocho 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:39.320 there of New York, would you agree with that assessment. 0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.280 It is definitely one of the greatest. I mean, it 0:17:43.359 --> 0:17:46.760 has risen in public consciousness because we are seeing attacks 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.560 like solar winds and on colonial pipeline, and so I 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:54.280 think the pervasiveness and the public consciousness is a really 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.400 helpful thing as we moved forward. But we're definitely seeing 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:01.520 um an increased focus on that media love attack. Our 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:06.480 business is prepared, they are working on. It depends on 0:18:06.480 --> 0:18:09.080 the size of the organization, it depends on their investment 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.560 in security. But there has been a really strong effort 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.520 through the US government to collaborate with private sector, and 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.639 that public private cooperation has facilitated a lot of investment 0:18:21.160 --> 0:18:25.960 and DHS through sis UH, as mentioned by Congressman, UM 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:30.800 does a lot of support for organizations throughout the UM 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:34.159 the private sector, and there are you know, this number 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:37.520 to me is still so striking. Six hundred thousand open 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.600 cybersecurity jobs. Is that part of the reason we may 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.200 be seeing an uptick and attacks. I wouldn't say that 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.679 that is the reason, but we definitely need more people 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.280 to combat the threat, a lot of smart people with 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.119 a number of different backgrounds. I'm glad you brought up 0:18:56.119 --> 0:18:59.600 that statistic because I think people here about cybersecurity jobs 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.800 and think they need to be an engineer or very technical, 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.600 but there are a number of jobs that would require 0:19:05.720 --> 0:19:09.080 folks of a variety of backgrounds, from legal backgrounds to 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:14.720 training and marketing. All right, Camille Stewart, Global head of 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.520 Product Security Strategy at Google. Camille, thanks for giving us 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:29.680 your view on the cyber landscape. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.120 I Emily Chang in San Francisco. The Milk and Institute 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:36.080 Global conferences underway this week, and bloombergs Eric Schatzker caught 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.080 up with Citadel CEO Ken Griffin to talk about everything 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.520 from inflation to the war on Ukraine. Part of that 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.400 conversation and what he had to say about crypto right now, 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.119 take a listen. So it's it's pretty simple. All my 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.600 colleagues who are younger than I am probably think I'm 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:56.679 a dinosaur in this issue. They're big believers. They believe 0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.560 that cryptocurrency has an important role in the global economy 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.480 as a means of facilitating payment in a web three 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.240 world three world. I have to give that due consideration. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.119 These are really sharp people. I have to live with 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.600 the reality that that an asset's worth of people perceive 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.119 it to be worth. So I may be skeptical about cryptocurrency. 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:19.639 What's the value bitcoin or ethereum? I also collect American 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.439 abstract art. Why is a painting worth ten million dollars? 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.119 It's oil on a canvas. So value is in the 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.440 eyes of the holder. It's nigh's the market. One of 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:32.679 the things that we do with Seal securities is we 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:36.879 help people create the portfolios that they think create the 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:40.879 greatest value for them. And as such, given the institutional 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.520 increase and interest in cryptocurrency, I think it's reasonable to 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.679 expect to see us be more involved in the crypto space, 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:52.760 providing liquidity institutional and potentially retail investors. How soon is 0:20:52.800 --> 0:20:55.560 it difficult to build a market making business in crypto 0:20:55.600 --> 0:21:00.080 from scratch. It's difficult to build to the level of 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:03.479 rigor that we would want to build too. Things like 0:21:03.960 --> 0:21:06.520 ensuring that we're not a party to a transaction with 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.040 North Korea are really important to us. They might not 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.680 be to our competitors, but I'm not going to help 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:19.280 fund the North Koreans with their various ventures by by 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:23.200 mistakenly buying their cryptocurrency. So we're going to run our 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:26.760 business too. I believe a very high standard of of 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.359 k y C and a m L in the interest 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:31.640 of making sure that we are in the markets as 0:21:31.640 --> 0:21:35.320 a constructive participant in this space and really bring the 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:38.240 best practices that we see here in North America into 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:40.840 the market. Would you describe that business the one you 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:44.600 envision as a market making business akin to what you 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.640 do in equities or more of an exchange I would 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.480 say it's it's it's probably a combination to choose what 0:21:50.520 --> 0:21:53.720 will end up in So obviously, we as a market 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.280 maker commit our capital's principle, and then we believe exchange 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.879 technology is very important helping to bring buyers and sellers together. 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.560 Do you feel any sense of regret for not diving 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:11.040 in sooner, because, as you well know, there are examples 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:16.000 of firms. I'll mention Binance because it's the biggest that 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:23.240 have become among among in revenue terms and valuation terms, 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:29.439 among the biggest in the world. Well, I'm gonna I'm 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:32.600 gonna answer this in a way that's very personal to me. Look, 0:22:32.720 --> 0:22:35.159 I wish I owned a whole lot of Amazon fifteen 0:22:35.240 --> 0:22:38.159 or twenty years ago, and I wish I owned a 0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:41.439 whole lot of or Apple twenty years ago and just 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:44.920 kept it for like twenty years. I'd say one difference 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.720 between those investments and having built a cryptocurrency firm over 0:22:49.760 --> 0:22:52.240 that period of time is I'd actually feel really proud 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.960 of what Amazon has done for the US consumer. I 0:22:55.040 --> 0:22:56.920 feel really proud of what Apple has done for the 0:22:57.040 --> 0:22:59.240 U S consumer. You know, we both walked in here. 0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:02.040 I was checking my iPhone. It's just completely changed our lives. 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:06.240 Amazon has completely changed the ability for somebody to purchase goods, 0:23:06.280 --> 0:23:09.760 for small retailer to offer their products on a giant, 0:23:09.840 --> 0:23:14.040 vast virtual marketplace. These are businesses that have really clearly 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:17.879 changed the world for the better. I'm still looking for 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.000 that story as to how crypto has made the world 0:23:20.040 --> 0:23:22.280 so much better. I give you the story as to 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.800 how bitcoin consumes as much power as a small country. 0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.240 You know, a world that's fixated on carbon footprints. It's 0:23:29.240 --> 0:23:32.000 remarkable to me that we applaud the emergence of a 0:23:32.400 --> 0:23:37.359 cryptocurrency which has a CEO two footprint of like a 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:42.000 significant smaller, small, mid sized country. A couple of quick 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:45.919 questions for you on politics before we finish, Um, you 0:23:45.960 --> 0:23:52.280 are among the most significant UH funders of political campaigns 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:57.119 in this election cycle. Um. One important thing has just 0:23:57.320 --> 0:24:01.119 changed or is about to change. Elon is going to 0:24:01.200 --> 0:24:05.840 own Twitter. How is that going to change this election 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:09.920 cycle and those that follow? I think the most important 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:14.679 part of Elon Musk owning Twitter is about free speech, 0:24:17.240 --> 0:24:23.480 hands down the most important part. The social media networks 0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.240