WEBVTT - ADHD pt 2 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.560 Hello, everyone, In case you're listening to these episodes out 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:06.160 of order, we gave a heads up in episode one 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:08.440 that we have a kind of a grown up talk 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.840 about ADHD in these two episodes, So we wanted to say, 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:14.440 if you're a parent with a kid who has ADHD, 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.040 maybe listen to it yourself first before you share it 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:18.520 with them. On with the. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:27.240 Show, Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:32.920 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:35.960 Chuck and Jars here again and we're starting up part 0:00:36.000 --> 0:00:39.640 two of our double episode on ADHD. 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:42.760 That's right, And if you remember in part one we 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.600 discussed ADHD. 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:46.640 Some people have it, some. 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:49.320 People don't, and we're going to talk right now about 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:53.040 how you can figure that out, and that's called diagnosis. 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:58.480 Right now, where we are scientifically is that the biggest 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.760 factor on whether or not you have ADHD or not 0:01:00.960 --> 0:01:05.760 is hereditary. If you have kids and you have ADHD 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:08.880 as a parent, your kid has about a fifty percent 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.040 chance of having it as well. And like we mentioned 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:16.240 in the first part, a lot of adults from especially 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:20.440 our generation Gen Xers, are now getting diagnosed in their 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.640 thirties forties, fifties because they found out that their kid 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.839 has ADHD and they're like, wow, little Chucky Junior looks 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:31.160 a lot like big Chucky. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.600 Yeah, that's a symptom. I thought that was charming exactly. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:36.720 Cattle's a bug. 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:39.880 And even if they don't recognize it in them, there's 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.000 a one hundred percent chance that their spouse will be like, 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:43.560 I really think you have this too. 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:47.200 Yeah, but there are some other factors, right. 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:52.160 Yes, there's issues during pregnancy, that's a big one, usually 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:58.200 exposure to alcohol or tobacco, premature delivery, if you didn't 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:00.480 weigh very much when you were born, if you were 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:03.240 exposed to lead as a kid, if you had a 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:07.240 brain injury as a kid. There's a lot of concern 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.320 about some other stuff. I think you said at the 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:13.120 very outset of part one. There isn't any research that 0:02:13.200 --> 0:02:16.720 suggests watching too much TV or living in a go 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:21.919 go go world. There is some research that suggests that 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.600 blue number one and Blue number two food dies may 0:02:25.680 --> 0:02:30.679 actually at least exacerbate ADHD symptoms, But for the most part, 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.440 they think it's a combination of genetics, the environment you 0:02:34.480 --> 0:02:38.079 were raised in, and then possibly like actual environmental factors 0:02:38.160 --> 0:02:41.800 like being exposed to lead or your mom, you know, 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:43.360 smoking when she was pregnant with you. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.200 Yeah, and just to kind of clear up the TV 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:51.160 and the screen thing, watching TV or being on screens 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.320 too much or too much TV quote unquote isn't going 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:59.600 to help give you ADHD, but there is a connection there. 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.880 If you are a kid with ADHD, the pool toward 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:06.440 a screen is going to be way stronger than a 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:10.040 kid who doesn't have it. That short attention span is 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:15.520 gonna really crave like the flashy graphics that video games 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:19.880 or cartoons can deliver you, it'll deliver that steady dose 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.400 of dopamine. They've done studies, it was. I found one 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:27.360 a large study of five year olds that compared tension 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.639 span of kids who watched less than thirty minutes per 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.320 day of TV with those who spent more than two 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.920 hours in front of a TV, and of course we 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:37.960 mean you know, screens basically. 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.160 And pretty dramatic results. 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:44.080 The kids who watched the most TV had almost an 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.160 eight times more of a chance of meeting the ADHD 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.120 diagnosis criteria, and it even outranked other things that cause 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.960 attention problems like you know, lack of sleep or parents 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.920 stress eutonomic stress stuff like that. 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.880 So there's a link. It's not going to get you ADHD. 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.240 But if you have a kid with ADHD, then you 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:08.480 should probably just monitor screens even more. You know, you 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:10.440 should be doing that anyway, but maybe even more so. 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:14.640 Yeah, because those sites are designed to release dopamine and 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.240 train you to come back and do it again and 0:04:17.279 --> 0:04:20.640 again and again. And so kids with ADHD who don't 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.360 normally have a flood of dopamine when they get it, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.479 they really learn to do that thing that gives them 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.360 that dopamine, which again doesn't give you like a feel 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.159 good rush, It just comes along with that and tells 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:35.360 your brain this is a really important thing to do, 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:37.080 so do it again and again and again. 0:04:38.120 --> 0:04:39.279 Yeah, for sure. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:41.680 It's also like the age of your kid is really 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.799 important when you're trying to diagnose if you're pre preschool 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.760 aged or younger or I guess that counts as all 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:49.000 ages younger than preschool, but. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:49.680 You know what I mean. 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:53.800 That that can be a lot tougher because there are 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:58.640 other developmental delays that may look like ADHD that change 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.360 and you may not be able to get a good 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.440 diagnosis until they're you know, six, seven, eight, years old, 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:06.839 and even when they're older, like you know, teenagers. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:08.800 You got to rule out a lot of stuff like. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:13.560 Learning disabilities, mood disorders, if you have like vision or 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.359 hearing problems or a sleep disorder. A lot of that 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.880 stuff can can fool you into thinking you have ADHD. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:21.800 So it can be tricky, it can be. 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:25.160 So there's two lists. There's an inattentive list and then 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:29.040 there's a hyperactive list. Yeah, and each one has I 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:34.279 think nine like criteria things like you know, you lose 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:37.800 things frequently, you appear to zone out while people are 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.280 talking to you, stuff like that. And if you have 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:43.039 six out of the nine on the inattentive list, you 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:47.320 have inattentive type ADHD. If you have six out of 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:51.240 nine on the hyperactive list, you have hyperactive type ADHD. 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.080 And if you're really running up the numbers and you've 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:58.240 got six of nine on inattentive and six of nine 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:03.880 on hyperactive, you've got the combined version of ADHD. Adults, 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.280 it's the same thing, although the criterias adjusted a little bit. 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:11.560 For you know, runs around rambunctiously in class. You don't 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.919 do that, but say you feel restless at it during 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:15.880 meetings like it's really hard to sit still. 0:06:15.960 --> 0:06:18.160 You may be mentally doing that exactly. 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:20.599 I would love to jump up and spin in a circle, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.120 right right, But a kid will actually do that. Where's 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.360 the adult in the meeting will just struggle through that exactly. 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.520 So the criteria is essentially the same, it's just kind 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.560 of adjusted for adults, and then for adults it's five 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:38.520 of nine yeah, for either lists. And then also with kids. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.440 When you're diagnosing kids, you look at their educational records, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:43.800 you talk to their parents, you talk to the guidance counselors. 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:47.480 You get as much information as you possibly can to 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:51.640 properly diagnose somebody with ADHD, because there's not one like 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.520 here's our ADHD test, whether it's a blood test or 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.960 a written test. You're basically pulling all of these disparate 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.440 info together to put together like, Okay, this kid has 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.120 ADHD and it's this kind Yeah. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.760 And that's why you know, parent teacher conferences are super valuable. 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:11.520 I think when you first start to have to do 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:12.320 that stuff. 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:14.880 You're just like, oh God, kill me, I gotta seriously, like, 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:17.600 because your experience is from when you're a kid, Like 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:18.680 what a waste of time. 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:20.160 But it's not at all. 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.840 When you go in there as a parent, you know 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:23.720 how your kid is at home. You don't know how 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.400 they are at school because you don't have a little 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:28.280 camera in their classroom where you can just sit around 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:29.680 and watch what they're like. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.880 So rich parents do, right, Yeah, maybe so, but. 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:37.440 You can really glean Like I think when you have 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:40.040 challenges with a kid at home as a parent, you're 0:07:40.160 --> 0:07:44.680 dying to know if it's just you or if it's 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:46.400 just the way it is at home. In other words, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.480 obviously not just the parent's fault, but you're wondering. So 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.000 you're you're like when we get in there with Ruby's teachers, 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.440 we're always just like, so, what's going on? 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:56.200 What was she like? Does she have trouble with this 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:56.520 or that? 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.040 And sometimes it's like, yeah, she has the same trouble 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.400 with this or that at home, And sometimes it's like no, 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.600 it's not at all at school. 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:06.760 And so it's really super enlightening. 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:10.200 Yeah, that is super enlightening. Does it make you feel 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.440 better or is it more just like it just answers 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:13.480 the question that you have. 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.360 Yeah, just I think you know, knowledge is power, So 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:18.400 just knowing that stuff that. 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:21.400 Dude, we should start doing that with you and Jerry. 0:08:21.480 --> 0:08:24.160 They needed to be adult versions of parent teacher conferences. 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:26.760 Oh that's a great idea, you know, I would be 0:08:26.800 --> 0:08:27.520 so anxious. 0:08:28.400 --> 0:08:30.880 Oh no, it'd be good. We do it over drinks. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.000 Okay. One other thing, you can find a lot of 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:39.080 really great accurate diagnostic tests on sites like TikTok, which 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.319 have lots of misspelled words in the title. So those 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:43.959 are always really great to test whether you have ADHD 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:44.360 or not. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.199 Be aware of that. I mean, social media stuff can help. 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.480 There's lots some good resources. But what was that study? 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:52.839 Like half of that stuff on TikTok was just wrong? 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.040 Yeah, if I think fifty two yeah. 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.600 When it came to this, yeah, more than half. 0:08:57.960 --> 0:09:01.160 Yeah. So one of the big questions that we're still 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.439 answering today, and if you haven't picked up that we 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:07.160 don't have a full grasp of ADHD in any way, 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.400 shape or form yet. That's correct. But one of the 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.479 factors that we're trying to figure out is the prevalence 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:18.640 of ADHD among kids and among adults, and it's kind 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.640 of all over the map. It does seem like we're 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.079 starting to kind of zero in a little bit. We're 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.160 figuring out like the criteria to really like to really 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.520 diagnose ADHD, and it seems like the numbers are starting 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.160 to get a little smaller as time goes on and 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.760 we get a little better with recognizing ADHD. 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.040 Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I know 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.920 that you found some other numbers, but we'll just go 0:09:44.960 --> 0:09:46.120 through them and you can just say. 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:49.560 If I'm wrong. 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:53.560 Between ages of three and seventeen, so school age kids 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:57.400 in the US United States of America, around ten percent 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:01.640 have been diagnosed with ADHD. That number does get bigger 0:10:01.640 --> 0:10:03.480 with age because a lot of times you won't get 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:08.480 tested until a little later, and some you know, diagnostic 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.080 testing requires money, and sometimes a lot of money. 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:12.680 I mean, you can do. 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:18.480 Like a just a sort of a psychiatric evaluation maybe 0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:20.600 if your kids go into a therapist or something, and 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:22.840 they may just look at criteria and ask a few questions. 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:23.880 But if you want like. 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:28.920 A real deal diagnostic diagnostic evaluation, like those aren't cheap. 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:33.600 And that sucks because, like these numbers are kids who 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:37.480 have been diagnosed because they were able to be diagnosed. 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:40.080 So I'm sure there are a lot of situations where 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:40.920 that's not possible. 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:45.360 There's also a shortage of psychiatrists in the United States, 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:49.839 so it's often there's a long wait list to even 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:51.959 be seen from that psychiatrist, so you have to pay 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:56.760 a lot of money too. Not all psychiatrists specialize in ADHD, 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.920 so you really need to find from an even like 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:04.320 smaller pool to choose from of psychiatrists. And then also 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.720 once they diagnose you that the outlay of money is 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:12.120 not over there, like you have to keep seeing them 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.880 and they charge you every time for that. And psychiatrists 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.360 are medical doctors, so their fees are not on the 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:21.160 par or on the order of a psychologist or a therapist. 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.160 They're four or five times more on average. Probably I'm 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.439 pulling that out of thin air, but it's very clear 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.960 that you're going to pay more for your psychiatrists than 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:32.160 you would for a therapist. 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:33.400 Yeah, for sure. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.960 Generally still boys are more likely to get that diagnosis 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:44.600 than girls, about thirteen percent to six percent. There's also 0:11:44.720 --> 0:11:50.960 variations by race. I believe the highest percentage Black kids 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:54.920 are at twelve percent, ten percent for White kids, eight 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.600 percent for Hispanic kids, and three percent for Asian children, 0:11:58.720 --> 0:11:59.960 which is just super interest. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:02.720 It is interesting, for sure, and there's got to be 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.000 some clue in there somewhere like, Yeah, that seems like 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.560 there's that's weird that there's a difference because I think 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.120 all of those numbers were for kids in the United States. 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:11.920 Yeah, it was. 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.880 I think globally they've come up within a twenty seventeen 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:20.680 study across the world that five almost five point three 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:27.240 percent of kids have ADHD. And there's a there's a 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.320 question like, Okay, is this over diagnosed because I said 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:32.839 that the prevalence rate seem to be kind of getting 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:35.480 a little smaller as we zero in better and better. 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:40.040 But the diagnostic or the rates of diagnosis have really 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.720 picked up where they really did at the beginning of 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.480 the twenty first century. Between two thousand and five and 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:53.560 twenty fourteen, diagnoses of kids with ADHD doubled, doubled. That's crazy. 0:12:53.880 --> 0:12:57.760 That's a huge increase doubled. It's almost like one hundred 0:12:57.760 --> 0:12:58.640 percent more. 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:03.480 Yeah, And you know, there's just no scientific consensus right 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.200 now on whether it's an over diagnosis or whether it's 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.680 just we know more now and there's less stigma. There's 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:15.840 more kids getting tested now there. You know, the criteria 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.920 changed in twenty thirteen from the DSM four to the 0:13:19.000 --> 0:13:21.840 d S m five as far as that threshold, So 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:23.679 all of those things probably factor in. 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:26.840 To the doubling. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.000 I would think, Yeah, one thing though, if you are 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.640 taking your kid into be tested, make sure that it's 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:37.120 since they kind of evaluate the kid against the expectations 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.040 of their grade level. If they're young for their grade, Yep, 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:43.400 that needs to be taken into account because they can 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.640 easily be misdiagnosed because they're actually not at that grade 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.120 level yet, because they're not of that age quite yet, 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:51.600 even though they're in that grade. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:55.720 Yeah, and with COVID kids, you know, potentially missing out 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.680 on depending on what happened where you were, on a 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:03.600 lot of valuable school. So yeah, it's important to look 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.480 at because because Ruby is young for her grade, so 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.880 in some cases she's like eight or nine months younger 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.760 than some of her classmates. And then when you throw 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:17.439 even though she did COVID kindergarten, which was a real boon, 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.360 they did their best, they it wasn't like regular school. Still, 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.840 so teachers and educators are having to sort and parents 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:27.160 are having to sort through all of that. 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:29.200 Still chuck. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:31.040 Just to kind of give a hat tip to some 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.680 of our listeners in other countries, I saw that the 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:37.400 NHS says in the UK five percent of kids have ADHD. 0:14:37.800 --> 0:14:41.480 In Australia they estimate six to ten percent of kids 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:46.720 have ADHD, Canada rich five to seven percent. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.960 Not bad eh. 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.480 And then our friends in Germany can expect a percentage 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.200 of four point three three for the number or for 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.960 the percentage of kids that have ADHD in that country. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:14:59.880 Funderbar. 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.520 So what about adults, because as we now realize, adults 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:10.320 have ADHD too, or they probably had it in childhood 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.440 and it was just undiagnosed and they just didn't get 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.880 diagnosed until later in life. That's typically what happens. 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.600 Well, my friends, let's take a break and find out 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:20.920 those results right after this. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:22.239 Definitely should. 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:27.520 Childhood each other? 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:36.160 Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stuff about 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:43.120 insomnia or aluminia. How about the one on border like 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:49.000 disorder that are nder border that one before, but it 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.240 was so nice I learned this. 0:15:51.640 --> 0:16:06.760 Why everybody listen, all right? 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:10.760 What a cliffhanger that was our adult listeners on the 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:14.840 edges of their collective seat seats seat collective seat. 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.080 Yeah, collective, yeah, because it's collective, collective soul. 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.320 Collective soul. That's a good one. 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.440 The rate of the condition into adulthood is all over 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.400 the map. Some you might look at one thing that 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.640 says about five percent, because you know, that's kind of 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:36.400 what it is for kids, ish, and then you might 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.000 read something else that said, now like seventy five percent 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.560 adults have it. It's really really startling when you start 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.160 looking into this as an adult. There was a study 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:50.680 from twenty twenty one that found that it can fluctuate 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:52.440 over time, and you know, it's kind of what I 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.560 was talking about being on a spectrum. But about nine 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.680 percent of those diagnosed as kids, they said, had quote 0:16:59.720 --> 0:17:04.639 unquot fully recovered in young adulthood. So I don't know 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:08.040 if what that means though that that like our systems 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:10.600 in place such that they've learned to manage it. 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.520 Yeah, that's the weird thing is there's no known cure 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.360 for ADHD. All of the stuff that we use for 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.560 is just managing it. But I think one of the 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.080 reasons also that they were like it's just a childhood 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.960 disorder that you outgrow is because some people actually do so. 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.479 You actually can way, so that maybe the nine percent 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:31.000 or part of that nine percent. 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:33.320 I guess, But to pull one of your old old 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.439 school wards and it seems shinky to me, like I 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:40.560 don't understand how. Yeah, I don't understand how you could 0:17:40.600 --> 0:17:45.600 outgrow something that arises from your brain being literally different 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.919 than other people's brains. Yeah, I don't get it. But 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.280 maybe we just don't don't understand it quite yet. But 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.560 it is true. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.159 for the most part, it does seem like if you 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.560 have ADHD as a kid, you have it as an 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:58.440 adult as well. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.440 Yeah, and if you're in a adult with ADHD, you're 0:18:01.440 --> 0:18:07.040 probably seeing it play out with organization and focus, you 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:08.679 know a lot of times with your job, but in 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.760 just in your life as well, because it's always there. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.400 You might have some pretty severe mood swings. You might 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:20.040 be a procrastinator a lot of times, you're misdiagnosed because 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:21.879 it might make you really anxious. So there's like, now 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:24.920 you have anxiety or it might really bum you out 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.840 with these mood swings, and they might say, oh, you're 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.640 just depressed. All of that could just be ADHD or 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:31.679 a kill morbidity. 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:35.679 Yeah, and we'll talk about cole morbidities in a second. 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.680 I got it. But with adults, you know, again, the 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:42.879 adults don't get up in meetings and run around the 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.199 table and they're like, just go ahead, I'm listening, you know. 0:18:46.280 --> 0:18:48.679 Instead great, they're just going to sit there and just 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.320 you know, use all of their energy to not do that, 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:54.879 and then also to try to focus on what's being said. 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:59.160 And then girls with ADHD, Chuck, tend to fall through 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.640 the cracks much more frequently for a couple of reasons, 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:06.160 but the main one that I saw is that girls 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:10.960 are so expected to be like demure and quiet and 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:16.960 self possessed that girls learn to mask their symptoms earlier 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.800 than boys do, who can get away with being more 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.840 rambunctious than girls can, so it goes undetected. And then 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.440 finally when they grow up and have a family, there's 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.239 like I can't there's too many plates, I can't do this. 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.119 I'm just exhausted and I'm not doing any of this 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:38.120 the way that I'm supposed to be. And they'll usually 0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:41.119 get diagnosed with depression and then anxiety or something like that, 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.680 but if they find the right doctor, they'll be properly 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:45.080 diagnosed as ADHD. 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:46.200 For sure. 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:52.320 You mentioned comorbidities. Autism is a very interesting one. Thirty 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:57.400 to eighty percent of people with autism spectrum disorder are 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:01.119 also diagnosed with ADHD. In about twenty to fifty percent 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:06.480 of people with ADHD also have autism spectrum disorder. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:10.040 And you're just like, why aren't they the same percentages? 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.959 But it turns out that ADHD is actually more common 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.280 than autism, so that, yeah, is solved. 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:18.600 For sure, and there's a lot of overlap there. 0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:24.480 I think before twenty thirteen with the updated criteria in 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.960 the DSM five, they thought that was like a mutually 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:33.040 exclusive thing, and some people this is much the minority 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.359 for sure, but there are some researchers that do think 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:38.879 it's just sort of a single condition manifesting in a 0:20:38.880 --> 0:20:42.480 couple of different ways. But most researchers don't think that. 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.040 They think it's like, you know, two separate things that 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.920 live alongside one another a lot of times. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.440 Right, And Chuck, I just I just realized, I don't 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.760 know if we've shouted out Livia this whole time yet 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.640 for helping us out with this one. But she did 0:20:57.640 --> 0:20:58.280 a great job. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:02.280 She did a great job. And before I forget the other. 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.960 Thing, as far as ADHD and autism spectrum disorder is, 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:11.320 you're more likely to just do better if you have 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.560 one or the other than if you have both. That 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.240 may feel intuitive, but I think it was you know, 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:18.159 Bear saying. 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.720 Did I interrupt and interject that Livia thing. 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:24.120 No, it's fine. 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:29.439 Depression is another one, Chuck. I think kids with are 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:34.320 people with ADHD are five times likelier to have depression 0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:39.840 than neurotypical peers, and they're not exactly sure why. A 0:21:39.840 --> 0:21:41.600 lot of people are like, well, it's obvious. I mean, like, 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.439 it can be a really hard life to have ADHD, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:48.440 especially when it's undiagnosed and untreated, so of course people 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:51.080 have depression. Other people are like, no, we're talking about 0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:55.320 actually like clinical, like brain based depression. It's possible that 0:21:55.400 --> 0:22:00.240 there's actually they share similar roots in the structure of 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.040 the brain, and that might account for it that there's 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:07.000