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Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, In case you're listening to these episodes out

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Speaker 1: of order, we gave a heads up in episode one

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Speaker 1: that we have a kind of a grown up talk

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Speaker 1: about ADHD in these two episodes, So we wanted to say,

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Speaker 1: if you're a parent with a kid who has ADHD,

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Speaker 1: maybe listen to it yourself first before you share it

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Speaker 1: with them. On with the.

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Speaker 2: Show, Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and Jars here again and we're starting up part

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Speaker 1: two of our double episode on ADHD.

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Speaker 3: That's right, And if you remember in part one we

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Speaker 3: discussed ADHD.

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Speaker 2: Some people have it, some.

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Speaker 3: People don't, and we're going to talk right now about

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Speaker 3: how you can figure that out, and that's called diagnosis.

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Speaker 3: Right now, where we are scientifically is that the biggest

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Speaker 3: factor on whether or not you have ADHD or not

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Speaker 3: is hereditary. If you have kids and you have ADHD

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Speaker 3: as a parent, your kid has about a fifty percent

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Speaker 3: chance of having it as well. And like we mentioned

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Speaker 3: in the first part, a lot of adults from especially

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Speaker 3: our generation Gen Xers, are now getting diagnosed in their

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Speaker 3: thirties forties, fifties because they found out that their kid

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Speaker 3: has ADHD and they're like, wow, little Chucky Junior looks

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Speaker 3: a lot like big Chucky.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a symptom. I thought that was charming exactly.

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Speaker 2: Cattle's a bug.

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Speaker 1: And even if they don't recognize it in them, there's

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Speaker 1: a one hundred percent chance that their spouse will be like,

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Speaker 1: I really think you have this too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are some other factors, right.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there's issues during pregnancy, that's a big one, usually

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Speaker 1: exposure to alcohol or tobacco, premature delivery, if you didn't

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Speaker 1: weigh very much when you were born, if you were

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Speaker 1: exposed to lead as a kid, if you had a

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Speaker 1: brain injury as a kid. There's a lot of concern

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Speaker 1: about some other stuff. I think you said at the

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Speaker 1: very outset of part one. There isn't any research that

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Speaker 1: suggests watching too much TV or living in a go

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Speaker 1: go go world. There is some research that suggests that

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Speaker 1: blue number one and Blue number two food dies may

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Speaker 1: actually at least exacerbate ADHD symptoms, But for the most part,

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Speaker 1: they think it's a combination of genetics, the environment you

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Speaker 1: were raised in, and then possibly like actual environmental factors

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Speaker 1: like being exposed to lead or your mom, you know,

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Speaker 1: smoking when she was pregnant with you.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to kind of clear up the TV

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Speaker 3: and the screen thing, watching TV or being on screens

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Speaker 3: too much or too much TV quote unquote isn't going

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Speaker 3: to help give you ADHD, but there is a connection there.

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Speaker 3: If you are a kid with ADHD, the pool toward

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Speaker 3: a screen is going to be way stronger than a

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Speaker 3: kid who doesn't have it. That short attention span is

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Speaker 3: gonna really crave like the flashy graphics that video games

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Speaker 3: or cartoons can deliver you, it'll deliver that steady dose

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Speaker 3: of dopamine. They've done studies, it was. I found one

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Speaker 3: a large study of five year olds that compared tension

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Speaker 3: span of kids who watched less than thirty minutes per

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Speaker 3: day of TV with those who spent more than two

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Speaker 3: hours in front of a TV, and of course we

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Speaker 3: mean you know, screens basically.

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Speaker 2: And pretty dramatic results.

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Speaker 3: The kids who watched the most TV had almost an

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Speaker 3: eight times more of a chance of meeting the ADHD

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Speaker 3: diagnosis criteria, and it even outranked other things that cause

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Speaker 3: attention problems like you know, lack of sleep or parents

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Speaker 3: stress eutonomic stress stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: So there's a link. It's not going to get you ADHD.

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Speaker 3: But if you have a kid with ADHD, then you

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Speaker 3: should probably just monitor screens even more. You know, you

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Speaker 3: should be doing that anyway, but maybe even more so.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because those sites are designed to release dopamine and

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Speaker 1: train you to come back and do it again and

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Speaker 1: again and again. And so kids with ADHD who don't

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Speaker 1: normally have a flood of dopamine when they get it,

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Speaker 1: they really learn to do that thing that gives them

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Speaker 1: that dopamine, which again doesn't give you like a feel

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Speaker 1: good rush, It just comes along with that and tells

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Speaker 1: your brain this is a really important thing to do,

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Speaker 1: so do it again and again and again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: It's also like the age of your kid is really

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Speaker 3: important when you're trying to diagnose if you're pre preschool

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Speaker 3: aged or younger or I guess that counts as all

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Speaker 3: ages younger than preschool, but.

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Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: That that can be a lot tougher because there are

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Speaker 3: other developmental delays that may look like ADHD that change

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Speaker 3: and you may not be able to get a good

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Speaker 3: diagnosis until they're you know, six, seven, eight, years old,

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Speaker 3: and even when they're older, like you know, teenagers.

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Speaker 2: You got to rule out a lot of stuff like.

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Speaker 3: Learning disabilities, mood disorders, if you have like vision or

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Speaker 3: hearing problems or a sleep disorder. A lot of that

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Speaker 3: stuff can can fool you into thinking you have ADHD.

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Speaker 2: So it can be tricky, it can be.

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Speaker 1: So there's two lists. There's an inattentive list and then

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Speaker 1: there's a hyperactive list. Yeah, and each one has I

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Speaker 1: think nine like criteria things like you know, you lose

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Speaker 1: things frequently, you appear to zone out while people are

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Speaker 1: talking to you, stuff like that. And if you have

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Speaker 1: six out of the nine on the inattentive list, you

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Speaker 1: have inattentive type ADHD. If you have six out of

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Speaker 1: nine on the hyperactive list, you have hyperactive type ADHD.

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Speaker 1: And if you're really running up the numbers and you've

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Speaker 1: got six of nine on inattentive and six of nine

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Speaker 1: on hyperactive, you've got the combined version of ADHD. Adults,

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing, although the criterias adjusted a little bit.

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Speaker 1: For you know, runs around rambunctiously in class. You don't

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Speaker 1: do that, but say you feel restless at it during

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Speaker 1: meetings like it's really hard to sit still.

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Speaker 2: You may be mentally doing that exactly.

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Speaker 3: I would love to jump up and spin in a circle,

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Speaker 3: right right, But a kid will actually do that. Where's

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Speaker 3: the adult in the meeting will just struggle through that exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the criteria is essentially the same, it's just kind

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Speaker 1: of adjusted for adults, and then for adults it's five

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Speaker 1: of nine yeah, for either lists. And then also with kids.

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Speaker 1: When you're diagnosing kids, you look at their educational records,

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Speaker 1: you talk to their parents, you talk to the guidance counselors.

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Speaker 1: You get as much information as you possibly can to

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Speaker 1: properly diagnose somebody with ADHD, because there's not one like

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Speaker 1: here's our ADHD test, whether it's a blood test or

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Speaker 1: a written test. You're basically pulling all of these disparate

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Speaker 1: info together to put together like, Okay, this kid has

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Speaker 1: ADHD and it's this kind Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And that's why you know, parent teacher conferences are super valuable.

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Speaker 2: I think when you first start to have to do

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Speaker 2: that stuff.

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Speaker 3: You're just like, oh God, kill me, I gotta seriously, like,

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Speaker 3: because your experience is from when you're a kid, Like

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Speaker 3: what a waste of time.

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Speaker 2: But it's not at all.

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Speaker 3: When you go in there as a parent, you know

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Speaker 3: how your kid is at home. You don't know how

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Speaker 3: they are at school because you don't have a little

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Speaker 3: camera in their classroom where you can just sit around

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Speaker 3: and watch what they're like.

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Speaker 2: So rich parents do, right, Yeah, maybe so, but.

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Speaker 3: You can really glean Like I think when you have

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Speaker 3: challenges with a kid at home as a parent, you're

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Speaker 3: dying to know if it's just you or if it's

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Speaker 3: just the way it is at home. In other words,

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Speaker 3: obviously not just the parent's fault, but you're wondering. So

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Speaker 3: you're you're like when we get in there with Ruby's teachers,

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Speaker 3: we're always just like, so, what's going on?

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Speaker 2: What was she like? Does she have trouble with this

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Speaker 2: or that?

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Speaker 3: And sometimes it's like, yeah, she has the same trouble

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Speaker 3: with this or that at home, And sometimes it's like no,

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Speaker 3: it's not at all at school.

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Speaker 2: And so it's really super enlightening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is super enlightening. Does it make you feel

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Speaker 1: better or is it more just like it just answers

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Speaker 1: the question that you have.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just I think you know, knowledge is power, So

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Speaker 3: just knowing that stuff that.

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Speaker 2: Dude, we should start doing that with you and Jerry.

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Speaker 2: They needed to be adult versions of parent teacher conferences.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's a great idea, you know, I would be

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Speaker 1: so anxious.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, it'd be good. We do it over drinks.

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Speaker 1: Okay. One other thing, you can find a lot of

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Speaker 1: really great accurate diagnostic tests on sites like TikTok, which

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Speaker 1: have lots of misspelled words in the title. So those

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Speaker 1: are always really great to test whether you have ADHD

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Speaker 1: or not.

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Speaker 3: Be aware of that. I mean, social media stuff can help.

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Speaker 3: There's lots some good resources. But what was that study?

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Speaker 3: Like half of that stuff on TikTok was just wrong?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if I think fifty two yeah.

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Speaker 2: When it came to this, yeah, more than half.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the big questions that we're still

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Speaker 1: answering today, and if you haven't picked up that we

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Speaker 1: don't have a full grasp of ADHD in any way,

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Speaker 1: shape or form yet. That's correct. But one of the

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Speaker 1: factors that we're trying to figure out is the prevalence

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Speaker 1: of ADHD among kids and among adults, and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of all over the map. It does seem like we're

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Speaker 1: starting to kind of zero in a little bit. We're

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Speaker 1: figuring out like the criteria to really like to really

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Speaker 1: diagnose ADHD, and it seems like the numbers are starting

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Speaker 1: to get a little smaller as time goes on and

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Speaker 1: we get a little better with recognizing ADHD.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I know

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Speaker 3: that you found some other numbers, but we'll just go

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Speaker 3: through them and you can just say.

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Speaker 2: If I'm wrong.

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Speaker 3: Between ages of three and seventeen, so school age kids

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Speaker 3: in the US United States of America, around ten percent

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Speaker 3: have been diagnosed with ADHD. That number does get bigger

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Speaker 3: with age because a lot of times you won't get

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Speaker 3: tested until a little later, and some you know, diagnostic

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Speaker 3: testing requires money, and sometimes a lot of money.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can do.

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Speaker 3: Like a just a sort of a psychiatric evaluation maybe

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Speaker 3: if your kids go into a therapist or something, and

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Speaker 3: they may just look at criteria and ask a few questions.

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Speaker 2: But if you want like.

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Speaker 3: A real deal diagnostic diagnostic evaluation, like those aren't cheap.

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Speaker 3: And that sucks because, like these numbers are kids who

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Speaker 3: have been diagnosed because they were able to be diagnosed.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sure there are a lot of situations where

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Speaker 3: that's not possible.

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Speaker 1: There's also a shortage of psychiatrists in the United States,

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Speaker 1: so it's often there's a long wait list to even

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Speaker 1: be seen from that psychiatrist, so you have to pay

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Speaker 1: a lot of money too. Not all psychiatrists specialize in ADHD,

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Speaker 1: so you really need to find from an even like

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Speaker 1: smaller pool to choose from of psychiatrists. And then also

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Speaker 1: once they diagnose you that the outlay of money is

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Speaker 1: not over there, like you have to keep seeing them

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Speaker 1: and they charge you every time for that. And psychiatrists

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Speaker 1: are medical doctors, so their fees are not on the

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Speaker 1: par or on the order of a psychologist or a therapist.

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Speaker 1: They're four or five times more on average. Probably I'm

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Speaker 1: pulling that out of thin air, but it's very clear

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Speaker 1: that you're going to pay more for your psychiatrists than

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Speaker 1: you would for a therapist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: Generally still boys are more likely to get that diagnosis

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Speaker 3: than girls, about thirteen percent to six percent. There's also

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Speaker 3: variations by race. I believe the highest percentage Black kids

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Speaker 3: are at twelve percent, ten percent for White kids, eight

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Speaker 3: percent for Hispanic kids, and three percent for Asian children,

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Speaker 3: which is just super interest.

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Speaker 1: It is interesting, for sure, and there's got to be

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Speaker 1: some clue in there somewhere like, Yeah, that seems like

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Speaker 1: there's that's weird that there's a difference because I think

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Speaker 1: all of those numbers were for kids in the United States.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: I think globally they've come up within a twenty seventeen

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Speaker 1: study across the world that five almost five point three

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Speaker 1: percent of kids have ADHD. And there's a there's a

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Speaker 1: question like, Okay, is this over diagnosed because I said

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Speaker 1: that the prevalence rate seem to be kind of getting

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Speaker 1: a little smaller as we zero in better and better.

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Speaker 1: But the diagnostic or the rates of diagnosis have really

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Speaker 1: picked up where they really did at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the twenty first century. Between two thousand and five and

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Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, diagnoses of kids with ADHD doubled, doubled. That's crazy.

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Speaker 1: That's a huge increase doubled. It's almost like one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent more.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, there's just no scientific consensus right

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Speaker 3: now on whether it's an over diagnosis or whether it's

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Speaker 3: just we know more now and there's less stigma. There's

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Speaker 3: more kids getting tested now there. You know, the criteria

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Speaker 3: changed in twenty thirteen from the DSM four to the

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Speaker 3: d S m five as far as that threshold, So

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Speaker 3: all of those things probably factor in.

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Speaker 2: To the doubling.

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Speaker 1: I would think, Yeah, one thing though, if you are

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Speaker 1: taking your kid into be tested, make sure that it's

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Speaker 1: since they kind of evaluate the kid against the expectations

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Speaker 1: of their grade level. If they're young for their grade, Yep,

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Speaker 1: that needs to be taken into account because they can

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Speaker 1: easily be misdiagnosed because they're actually not at that grade

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Speaker 1: level yet, because they're not of that age quite yet,

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Speaker 1: even though they're in that grade.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and with COVID kids, you know, potentially missing out

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Speaker 3: on depending on what happened where you were, on a

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Speaker 3: lot of valuable school. So yeah, it's important to look

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Speaker 3: at because because Ruby is young for her grade, so

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Speaker 3: in some cases she's like eight or nine months younger

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Speaker 3: than some of her classmates. And then when you throw

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Speaker 3: even though she did COVID kindergarten, which was a real boon,

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Speaker 3: they did their best, they it wasn't like regular school. Still,

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Speaker 3: so teachers and educators are having to sort and parents

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Speaker 3: are having to sort through all of that.

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Speaker 2: Still chuck.

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Speaker 1: Just to kind of give a hat tip to some

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Speaker 1: of our listeners in other countries, I saw that the

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Speaker 1: NHS says in the UK five percent of kids have ADHD.

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Speaker 1: In Australia they estimate six to ten percent of kids

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Speaker 1: have ADHD, Canada rich five to seven percent.

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Speaker 2: Not bad eh.

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Speaker 1: And then our friends in Germany can expect a percentage

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Speaker 1: of four point three three for the number or for

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Speaker 1: the percentage of kids that have ADHD in that country.

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Speaker 2: Funderbar.

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Speaker 1: So what about adults, because as we now realize, adults

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Speaker 1: have ADHD too, or they probably had it in childhood

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Speaker 1: and it was just undiagnosed and they just didn't get

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Speaker 1: diagnosed until later in life. That's typically what happens.

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Speaker 3: Well, my friends, let's take a break and find out

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Speaker 3: those results right after this.

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Speaker 4: Definitely should.

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Speaker 1: Childhood each other?

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Speaker 4: Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stuff about

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Speaker 4: insomnia or aluminia. How about the one on border like

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Speaker 4: disorder that are nder border that one before, but it

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Speaker 4: was so nice I learned this.

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Speaker 5: Why everybody listen, all right?

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Speaker 3: What a cliffhanger that was our adult listeners on the

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Speaker 3: edges of their collective seat seats seat collective seat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, collective, yeah, because it's collective, collective soul.

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Speaker 2: Collective soul. That's a good one.

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Speaker 3: The rate of the condition into adulthood is all over

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Speaker 3: the map. Some you might look at one thing that

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Speaker 3: says about five percent, because you know, that's kind of

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Speaker 3: what it is for kids, ish, and then you might

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Speaker 3: read something else that said, now like seventy five percent

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Speaker 3: adults have it. It's really really startling when you start

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Speaker 3: looking into this as an adult. There was a study

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Speaker 3: from twenty twenty one that found that it can fluctuate

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Speaker 3: over time, and you know, it's kind of what I

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Speaker 3: was talking about being on a spectrum. But about nine

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Speaker 3: percent of those diagnosed as kids, they said, had quote

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Speaker 3: unquot fully recovered in young adulthood. So I don't know

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Speaker 3: if what that means though that that like our systems

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Speaker 3: in place such that they've learned to manage it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the weird thing is there's no known cure

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Speaker 1: for ADHD. All of the stuff that we use for

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Speaker 1: is just managing it. But I think one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons also that they were like it's just a childhood

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Speaker 1: disorder that you outgrow is because some people actually do so.

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Speaker 3: You actually can way, so that maybe the nine percent

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Speaker 3: or part of that nine percent.

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Speaker 1: I guess, But to pull one of your old old

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Speaker 1: school wards and it seems shinky to me, like I

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Speaker 1: don't understand how. Yeah, I don't understand how you could

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Speaker 1: outgrow something that arises from your brain being literally different

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Speaker 1: than other people's brains. Yeah, I don't get it. But

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Speaker 1: maybe we just don't don't understand it quite yet. But

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Speaker 1: it is true. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but

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Speaker 1: for the most part, it does seem like if you

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Speaker 1: have ADHD as a kid, you have it as an

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Speaker 1: adult as well.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're in a adult with ADHD, you're

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Speaker 3: probably seeing it play out with organization and focus, you

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Speaker 3: know a lot of times with your job, but in

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Speaker 3: just in your life as well, because it's always there.

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Speaker 3: You might have some pretty severe mood swings. You might

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Speaker 3: be a procrastinator a lot of times, you're misdiagnosed because

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Speaker 3: it might make you really anxious. So there's like, now

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Speaker 3: you have anxiety or it might really bum you out

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Speaker 3: with these mood swings, and they might say, oh, you're

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Speaker 3: just depressed. All of that could just be ADHD or

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Speaker 3: a kill morbidity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about cole morbidities in a second.

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Speaker 1: I got it. But with adults, you know, again, the

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Speaker 1: adults don't get up in meetings and run around the

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Speaker 1: table and they're like, just go ahead, I'm listening, you know.

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Speaker 1: Instead great, they're just going to sit there and just

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Speaker 1: you know, use all of their energy to not do that,

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Speaker 1: and then also to try to focus on what's being said.

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Speaker 1: And then girls with ADHD, Chuck, tend to fall through

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Speaker 1: the cracks much more frequently for a couple of reasons,

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Speaker 1: but the main one that I saw is that girls

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Speaker 1: are so expected to be like demure and quiet and

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Speaker 1: self possessed that girls learn to mask their symptoms earlier

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Speaker 1: than boys do, who can get away with being more

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Speaker 1: rambunctious than girls can, so it goes undetected. And then

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Speaker 1: finally when they grow up and have a family, there's

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Speaker 1: like I can't there's too many plates, I can't do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm just exhausted and I'm not doing any of this

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Speaker 1: the way that I'm supposed to be. And they'll usually

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Speaker 1: get diagnosed with depression and then anxiety or something like that,

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Speaker 1: but if they find the right doctor, they'll be properly

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Speaker 1: diagnosed as ADHD.

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Speaker 2: For sure.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned comorbidities. Autism is a very interesting one. Thirty

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Speaker 3: to eighty percent of people with autism spectrum disorder are

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Speaker 3: also diagnosed with ADHD. In about twenty to fifty percent

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Speaker 3: of people with ADHD also have autism spectrum disorder.

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Speaker 1: And you're just like, why aren't they the same percentages?

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that ADHD is actually more common

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Speaker 1: than autism, so that, yeah, is solved.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and there's a lot of overlap there.

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Speaker 3: I think before twenty thirteen with the updated criteria in

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Speaker 3: the DSM five, they thought that was like a mutually

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Speaker 3: exclusive thing, and some people this is much the minority

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Speaker 3: for sure, but there are some researchers that do think

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Speaker 3: it's just sort of a single condition manifesting in a

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Speaker 3: couple of different ways. But most researchers don't think that.

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Speaker 3: They think it's like, you know, two separate things that

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Speaker 3: live alongside one another a lot of times.

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Speaker 1: Right, And Chuck, I just I just realized, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if we've shouted out Livia this whole time yet

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Speaker 1: for helping us out with this one. But she did

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Speaker 1: a great job.

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Speaker 2: She did a great job. And before I forget the other.

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Speaker 3: Thing, as far as ADHD and autism spectrum disorder is,

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Speaker 3: you're more likely to just do better if you have

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Speaker 3: one or the other than if you have both. That

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Speaker 3: may feel intuitive, but I think it was you know,

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Speaker 3: Bear saying.

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Speaker 1: Did I interrupt and interject that Livia thing.

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Speaker 2: No, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Depression is another one, Chuck. I think kids with are

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Speaker 1: people with ADHD are five times likelier to have depression

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Speaker 1: than neurotypical peers, and they're not exactly sure why. A

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Speaker 1: lot of people are like, well, it's obvious. I mean, like,

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Speaker 1: it can be a really hard life to have ADHD,

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Speaker 1: especially when it's undiagnosed and untreated, so of course people

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Speaker 1: have depression. Other people are like, no, we're talking about

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Speaker 1: actually like clinical, like brain based depression. It's possible that

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Speaker 1: there's actually they share similar roots in the structure of

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Speaker 1: the brain, and that might account for it that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of overlap physically between depression and ADHD.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: And about forty percent of kids, and I think we

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Speaker 3: touched on this a little bit in Part one, also

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Speaker 3: have anxiety, which just makes it all tougher to deal

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Speaker 3: with because it kind of feeds on itself. Thirty to

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Speaker 3: fifty percent of kids with ADHD fit the criteria for

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Speaker 3: a couple of other conditions, one called oppositional defiant disorder

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Speaker 3: and conduct disorder, which we should maybe cover.

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Speaker 2: We could probably cover both of those in one episode

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Speaker 2: at some.

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Speaker 1: Point, we should. Man One of the most heartbreaking things

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Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life was on a plane

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Speaker 1: and this kid was just kicking the back of my

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Speaker 1: chair and on stop hard. And I turned around to you, like,

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Speaker 1: what the heck's going on?

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Speaker 2: You said, don't Josh, no, right, And.

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Speaker 1: The parents were there with them, and they just gave

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Speaker 1: me a look like what do you want us to do?

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Speaker 1: We can't do anything. Yeah, And I've never seen two

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Speaker 1: people look more tired and more defeated in my life.

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Speaker 1: And their kid was probably only three or four, and

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Speaker 1: it was just like, like I still today, I just

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Speaker 1: feel so bad for those people because that's your kid,

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Speaker 1: and like there's not a lot of understanding or treatment

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Speaker 1: with that, and certainly not out in the general public,

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Speaker 1: who turns around like you know, what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: Why is your kid doing that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: And in the old days, like you would tie your

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Speaker 3: kid to a plane seat or something a barbaric like.

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Speaker 1: That, yeah, which I'm sure helps a lot.

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Speaker 2: All right, So.

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Speaker 3: If you don't have ADHD, like me, It helps you

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Speaker 3: grow older because you do get a little wiser and

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Speaker 3: you do gain empathy, hopefully at least I have. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so it's hard to put yourself in someone's shoes until

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Speaker 3: you are close to someone with ADHD and then it,

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Speaker 3: like I said, it really benefit it's everyone you can

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Speaker 3: if you can lead with empathy and understanding, like in

441
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 3: your case with that kid even and that's coming from

442
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 3: someone with ad ADHD recognizing maybe this behavior and a kid.

443
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 3: But it can be hard if you don't have it

444
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 3: to understand this stuff.

445
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, So people like low empathy generally with people walking

446
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: around who know about autism or probably like yeah, that's

447
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,479
Speaker 1: that's that has to do with autism. Turns out it's

448
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 1: a huge symptom with ADHD too, and probably the exact

449
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: same stuff applies to people with autism. But with ADHD,

450
00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: it's not that you don't care, you couldn't care less

451
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: or whatever. You do care. You just either lack the

452
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 1: ability to, like you said, put yourself in that person's situation,

453
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 1: so your empathy can be triggered, or you lack emotional empathy,

454
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 1: which is where you're like, oh man, that's terrible that

455
00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 1: that happened to you, but I'm not feeling empathy, Like

456
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 1: I don't feel it. That's the difference. They're not sure

457
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: how many people with ADHD have low empathy and exactly

458
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: how it works, but it is a huge problem because again,

459
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 1: like they're if you can't if you can't empathize with people,

460
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: that's a basic human thing, and that will really cut

461
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: down on the number of connections you have with people.

462
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: Because if somebody's telling you something and they've just you know,

463
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 1: inserted that pop like the end of it, and like

464
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: this is what happened, and you're like, oh uh, like

465
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: you're just taking their words at face value and you're

466
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,479
Speaker 1: losing the emotional component. It's missing, it's not landing on you.

467
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 1: And they're just like, well, what is wrong with you?

468
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:40,439
Speaker 4: What?

469
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: Like you did you not hear what I just said?

470
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,160
Speaker 1: And you can stop and think about it and be like, oh, yeah,

471
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,400
Speaker 1: that's crazy, but like in the moment, it's not, it's

472
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: not there.

473
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally another And this is something I never

474
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 3: knew anything about until we started researching this, but false

475
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,919
Speaker 3: memory or falty memory can.

476
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,119
Speaker 2: Be issue if you have ADHD.

477
00:26:03,359 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 3: And it's not just well I just don't remember things

478
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 3: as they really were.

479
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,639
Speaker 2: It can literally be like a false memory.

480
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 3: They've done tests with kids and they showed that kids

481
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: with ADHD are much more likely to remember things that

482
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 3: weren't on a list. And this is sort of the

483
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 3: key here. Not only that, but be really emphatic that

484
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: those memories were correct and trying to defend those memories.

485
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 3: And that can be not only a frustration, but a

486
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: real challenge, especially as you get into adulthood to sort

487
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: of be able to construct your autobiography of who you are,

488
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 3: because that's all based on your memories.

489
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you can accept that you have false

490
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,880
Speaker 1: memories and that you embellish stuff that you don't remember

491
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,880
Speaker 1: inadvertently you don't know that you're doing this, you start

492
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: to question all of your memories, like which ones are true,

493
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: which ones are made up. That's a huge problem individually,

494
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: but also as far as relationships go. You're accidentally inadvertently

495
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,400
Speaker 1: gaslighting the people that you're like, no, that totally didn't happen,

496
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: or you said this, I didn't say that. And to

497
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 1: get to a point where you can trust the other

498
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: person's version of events what you're doing, you're having to

499
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: disavow your own version of reality and rely on somebody

500
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: else's version of reality. And that's probably the hardest mental

501
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: thing a person can do in their life, is abandoned,

502
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,719
Speaker 1: like just like not trust their view of reality and

503
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: be like, okay, I trust your version instead. It's one

504
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: of the hardest things you could possibly ever do. And

505
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: that's what it requires to not accidentally gaslight people and

506
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: not get arguments all the time because your memories are false.

507
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I imagine you know, you keep kind of

508
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 3: going back to this. How so much of this can

509
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 3: lead to a lack of ability to connect with people

510
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 3: in different ways. I imagine when you find your person

511
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 3: or your person's in your life, it may be maybe

512
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,399
Speaker 3: a smaller number than it would have been otherwise, but

513
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 3: I'm I would think that maybe some of those connections,

514
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 3: because so much trust is involved, can be even deeper sometimes.

515
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, for sure, if you can find somebody that

516
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,439
Speaker 1: you feel like you can be yourself around and just

517
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 1: let your guard down and they accept you as you

518
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: actually are, you hang on to those people for sure.

519
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: And that's true whether you have ADHD or autism. For sure,

520
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: Like if that's how whenever you find those people. But

521
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 1: it's like you said, they're going to be much fewer

522
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: and farther between because you're lacking that initial easiness of like,

523
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: oh I like you, Oh I like you too, Let's

524
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,560
Speaker 1: start hanging out more and cultivate a friendship naturally without

525
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: even thinking about it. Each relationship is a lot of

526
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: work for people with ADHD. So yeah, of course you're

527
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 1: going to have fewer of them.

528
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.

529
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: You and these are you know, we're kind of going

530
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: through just sort of like what it's like to live

531
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 3: with it. So some of these our downers, but you

532
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 3: are more I believe, twice as likely to be injured

533
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 3: in life if you have ADHD, which sounds kind of weird,

534
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 3: but it makes sense. You know, if you're distractive or distracted,

535
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 3: or if you're impulsive, if you take more risks, that's

536
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 3: going to lead to more injury in life. There's also

537
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 3: this very very strange thing called the ADHD sway, where

538
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 3: it's a literal physical imbalance, a postural imbalance that's associated

539
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 3: with ADHD, which could be a short stuff on its own, maybe.

540
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: I think so you have found this hilarious video I

541
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: think on Instagram of somebody saying, like, what it's like

542
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: walking next to somebody with ADHD. And because the ADHD

543
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: person will accidentally walk in front of you or walk

544
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: like kind of sway too close to you or something

545
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: like that, you end up the guy who's like walking

546
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: along next to this girl who's talking to him, and

547
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: like he ends up having to like climb over like

548
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: a jungle. It ends up having to walk through a

549
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: bush and like all this all this stuff, and the

550
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,400
Speaker 1: person with ADHD is totally oblivious that all this is

551
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: going on. But it's because of that that ADHD sway.

552
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: They don't as far as I know, no one knows

553
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: exactly what it is, but they think it could have

554
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: something to do with the differences in brain structure, has

555
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: something to do with the balance as well, because it's

556
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: in the brain as well as in the ears.

557
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 2: Fascinating. All right, we're in.

558
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: The act one, two, three, four, five, We're headed toward

559
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 3: the act six.

560
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: Wow, is this the one where the guns go off?

561
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 4: Oh?

562
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I hope not.

563
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 3: So we're headed toward act six and we will talk

564
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: more about the destruction of masking behaviors right after this.

565
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: Definitely large chrysk.

566
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 4: Lately, I've been learning some stop about in.

567
00:30:59,280 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: Volume.

568
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:08,920
Speaker 4: How about the one on border like disorder orner before

569
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: but it was so nicety e.

570
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 5: Body listen.

571
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 4: Stop.

572
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: So Chuck, you promised that we're going to talk about masking.

573
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 1: So I feel like my back's against the wall. I

574
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: have to start talking about masking, which I will right now.

575
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, are you masking right now?

576
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 1: Sure?

577
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 4: Yeah?

578
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: I think at all times people with ADHD mask to

579
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: varying degrees. For sure. I feel very comfortable on the episode.

580
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, I didn't mean to put you

581
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 2: on the spot. I was kind of just joking. What

582
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: is masking? Let me ask you.

583
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,280
Speaker 1: That masking is camouflaging your symptoms to blend in better.

584
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 3: And how bad can that get? And how bad is

585
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 3: that for somebody?

586
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: In some ways it's necessary and needed just to navigate

587
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: the world just to blend in and not to blend

588
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: in like don't look at me, but to seem but

589
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,200
Speaker 1: to be able to interact with people in levels that

590
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: they're not like, huh, what's wrong with you? They're paying

591
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: attention instead to what you're saying or you know, the

592
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,400
Speaker 1: value that you have. Yeah, you have to if you

593
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: have ADHD and autism. A lot of neurotypical disorders, if

594
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 1: not all of them require you to mask to be

595
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: able to just kind of live in the world. Right,

596
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,880
Speaker 1: So in that sense, it stinks. And there's a lot

597
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: of I think you kind of mentioned it either earlier

598
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 1: in Part one. Some employers are starting to create more neurodiverse,

599
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: inclusive workplaces where it's just like, just be yourself. But traditionally,

600
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: if you want to just make it in the world,

601
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: you have to mask to some degree, right, And so

602
00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: in that sense that's okay, or at the very least

603
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: that's not the most insidious version of masking. The problem

604
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: with that is that starts to carry over throughout other

605
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: parts of your life, and you find that you eventually

606
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: develop a version of yourself that you assume other people

607
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: would prefer to be around, and in a lot of

608
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: cases you're probably correct. And so in addition to, you know,

609
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: all of the exhaustingness that it keeps from not you know,

610
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: getting up and running around the conference table during a

611
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 1: meeting and being like, now go ahead, I'm just keep going,

612
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: I'm listening you. You. Also, your self esteem takes a

613
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: real nose dive because what you're training yourself is that

614
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: your you is not good enough. You have to you

615
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: have to hide yourself for people to accept you or

616
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: value you. That's the most insidious part of masking.

617
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine that to even It can get

618
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: so bad where you lose your sense of self because

619
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 3: you're masking so much. Obviously, something like this can manifest

620
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 3: in bad ways. Swings, anger, those are symptoms that can

621
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 3: be associated with ADHD because of the masking, and you know,

622
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 3: regulating those mood swings. Being unable to to be sort

623
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,759
Speaker 3: of generally in a stable emotional state can be very,

624
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: very challenging, and that takes a lot of energy. And

625
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: that's part of the fatigue that can come along with

626
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 3: ADHD is you're if you're always on or playing a

627
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,399
Speaker 3: role that you think you should play to fit into

628
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 3: work or life for the world, it's got to be exhausting.

629
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 4: It is.

630
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: So you're more irritable, So you're more prone to like

631
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: get mad at somebody who cut you off in traffic,

632
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: whereas like a neurotypical person might be like, huh, that

633
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: guy's having a bad day, or what a jerk or

634
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: something like that. You know, Yeah, you add all this

635
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 1: stuff together, and research consistently shows that people with ADHD

636
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: have lower self esteem and lower self compassion too than

637
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,359
Speaker 1: neurotypical people. And that's yeah again, like I said, it's

638
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 1: a really insidious part of ADHD and just being neurodiverse

639
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: in general. Again, it's not just ADHD people who have

640
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 1: to mask. Anybody who isn't neurotypical will feel like they

641
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: have to mask at least in some situations unless they

642
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 1: make a conscious decision not to do that. It's almost

643
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 1: like resisting an impulse and just being like, I am

644
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: going to be me in every situation, and to tell

645
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: you the truth, I'm not even sure that that's possible.

646
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and resisting impulses one of the challenges anyway.

647
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, good point.

648
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 3: So you know, as far as families go, we already

649
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 3: mentioned that that can you know, family members maybe on eggshells.

650
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: There have been studies that have shown that you may

651
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 3: have a lower parental warmth and especially maternal warmth toward

652
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 3: a kid with ADHD, which is super sad, more stress,

653
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 3: more depression they found among among mothers especially, And if

654
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,399
Speaker 3: you have like one neurodiverse child, one kid with ADHD,

655
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,359
Speaker 3: and two or three other kids or just one other

656
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: kid who is neurotypical, that can be really challenging for everybody,

657
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 3: including the neurotypical kid. And they have found adults with

658
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 3: ADHD have about a twice as likely a chance of

659
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 3: getting divorced as a neurotypical couple.

660
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,719
Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, there's a lot of challenges just in

661
00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 1: living everyday life at home, even not even just at

662
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 1: work or at the mall or something like that. There's

663
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: some other real bummer downsides to having ADHD. As a population,

664
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: you're very susceptible to addiction because again, like these things

665
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: flood your brain with dopamine, so you learn to do

666
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 1: those over and over and over again. So it's really

667
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 1: easy to get addicted to just about anything if you

668
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: have ADHD. There's a study of people who were in

669
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: treatment in the US. I can't remember when it was conducted,

670
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,400
Speaker 1: but they found a quarter of them had ADHD and

671
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: another quarter. Between twenty four percent and sixty two percent

672
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: of homeless people in the US were found to have

673
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:22,279
Speaker 1: ADHD despite again only maybe three point one percent of

674
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 1: adults globally having the disorder, so they're disproportionately represented in those.

675
00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, for surations. So here's the good news, everybody.

676
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 3: We've been through five acts and a third of some

677
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 3: good things, some bad things, and real challenges.

678
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: We cried, we laughed, we cried.

679
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: For sure, it's a very, in fact, one of the

680
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: most highly treatable conditions or disorder.

681
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 2: I don't even like saying disorder, you know.

682
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: But I guess that's how they list it that you

683
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 3: can have. There are a few things you can do

684
00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: treatment wise. There is coaching, there's therapy, and there's medication.

685
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 3: You may try one of these things, you might try two,

686
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 3: you might try all three. As an individual or a parent,

687
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 3: if you're helping your kid through the situation.

688
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: Well that's the most effective usually is all three of those.

689
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, medication can be very effective.

690
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 3: As of twenty sixteen, sixty two percent of kids in

691
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 3: the US that are diagnosed were on medication, thirty percent

692
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 3: of those were only on medication, thirty two percent were

693
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 3: on medication and behavioral treatment, and fifteen percent shunned the

694
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 3: medication and just did behavioral treatment.

695
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: And that's kind of understandable for a parent to make

696
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,280
Speaker 1: a decision, and that many parents to make the decision

697
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: like I don't want to put my kid on speed. Yeah,

698
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,919
Speaker 1: because again, like central nervous system stimulants are the go

699
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: to drug for treating ADHD because it really really works.

700
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: It's like flip a light switch, I understand, where like

701
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: just even from the first dose, you're like, oh, this

702
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: is what it feels like to be neurotypical. And one

703
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 1: of those stimulants that is prescribed one type adderall vivance straterra,

704
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: they are literal amphetamines. So the idea of putting your

705
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: kid on amphetamines really does not sit right with a

706
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: lot of parents, even though the state of understanding the

707
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: consensus in the professional ADHD community, despite a lot of

708
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 1: non professionals giving contrary advice for information, Yeah, study after

709
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: study has shown that kids on stimulants for ADHD treatment

710
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 1: do not get addicted to those stimulants, Like it just

711
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: doesn't happen. And then it also doesn't set them up

712
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 1: for increased addictions later in life, and it may actually decrease.

713
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: Some studies of show the proneness to addiction of other

714
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: stuff later in life even too. And I don't want

715
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: to be just like a lackey for psychostimulants as ADHD treatment.

716
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 1: There's a lot of different info out there, but from

717
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,600
Speaker 1: what I could tell when I researched it for this.

718
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: The professional community generally agrees they are not harmful to

719
00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: be on, even long term.

720
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a couple of kinds. There's immediate release

721
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 3: medicines that's sort of as needed, like a maybe up

722
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: to four hour effective time window. You may crash really

723
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 3: hard after that or get really tired or depressed after that.

724
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: There are extended release medications that's sort of the morning

725
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 3: pill that can last all day. Sometimes sometimes it's six hours,

726
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 3: sometimes it's up to sixteen. Sometimes people tag team those

727
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: take that pill in the morning and then either as

728
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 3: needed or in the afternoon or evening one of the

729
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 3: immediate release medicines. And you have to get screened, you know,

730
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 3: for something like this. They're going to do like a

731
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: cardiovascular screen for health risks and stuff like that. But

732
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 3: it's sort of I believe they haven't found link to

733
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 3: cardiovascular disease, right, But didn't they there was something about

734
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 3: the heart you found that was contrary to that, right.

735
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a study in the Journal of the American

736
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: Medical Association that I think from like twenty twenty three

737
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: that was like, actually, we studied some dudes in Sweden,

738
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: and it seems like they were at an increased risk

739
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 1: of cardiovascular disease from long term psychostimulant use for ADHD.

740
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: So again it's possible that we just don't know enough

741
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 1: or people haven't been on it long enough. But again,

742
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: these things were developed in the fifties and kids have

743
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: been on them since the seventies eighties at the latest

744
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: when they started putting them on well effectively speed to

745
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 1: treat this stuff. And there doesn't seem to be a

746
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: lot of research that suggests they are harmful.

747
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: Right, if you don't respond well of those, if the

748
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 3: side effects are no good, there are other medicines that

749
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 3: you can take that are not stimulants alpha antagonists sometimes

750
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,759
Speaker 3: sometimes like they found that some medications to treat high

751
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 3: blood blood pressure like clonidine, have you know, improved ADHD symptoms.

752
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 3: So you know, talk to your doctor if this is

753
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 3: something you're interested in, and you know, just we're not

754
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: medical professionals, so you know, speak, speak to your doctor

755
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 3: and like really do some research and dig in. It's

756
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 3: you know, putting your kid or your adult self on

757
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: a on any kind of medication, it's not something to

758
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,640
Speaker 3: take lightly. So just you know, really really dig in

759
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 3: there and ask questions.

760
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 1: For sure, and no no shade on you if you're

761
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 1: a parent, that's like, I don't care what you say.

762
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: I'm not putting my kid on speed for sure, totally

763
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 1: totally get that. Like I respect anybody's to about that,

764
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: because it doesn't mean that you don't care about your kid.

765
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: I respect anybody's decision about stuff like that.

766
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:06,919
Speaker 2: Of course.

767
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 1: So I said that the most effective I guess approach

768
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: to treating ADHD is not just medication, but also different

769
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 1: types of therapy and then also some other interventions like

770
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 1: exercise and nutrition, and when you put all that together,

771
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 1: it's much easier to treat ADHD symptoms. And one of

772
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: the first things, especially with kids with ADHD, is family training,

773
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,879
Speaker 1: where you teach the family how to teach the kid

774
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: how to act and behave like what's expected of them,

775
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 1: what the consequences are, and not just the kid, the

776
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: whole family is supposed to fully understand and be very

777
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: clear on all of the house rules and the structure

778
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: of the family. And I guess so the younger kids

779
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 1: can effectively tell on the kid with ADHD when he

780
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: misbehaves or she does. And I saw the authoritative parenting

781
00:44:00,600 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: type is the most effective, which was described as high

782
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:09,120
Speaker 1: control with high warmth and high support. Oh interesting, but

783
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: also that means okay, so high warmth, right, does that

784
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: mean that some parents make a decision to not be

785
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: warm to their kids, like they think that that's the

786
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:18,480
Speaker 1: best way to raise kids?

787
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, sadly, sure there are all kinds of parents,

788
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,959
Speaker 3: but I feel like that probably high warmth probably means

789
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 3: extra warmth, like being really attuned to providing that extra

790
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: warmth would be my.

791
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: Guests on fire, like a furnace of a parent.

792
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:37,920
Speaker 2: You mentioned exercise.

793
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,960
Speaker 3: Of course, that's good for everybody when it comes to

794
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 3: mood regulation and your brain functioning at its highest. But

795
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 3: for sure, if you have ADHD, it can increase dopamine,

796
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,880
Speaker 3: it can improve your executive functioning. If you have a

797
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: lot of pen of energy, especially if you're a kid,

798
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 3: you know, with hyperactivity, exercise can really can really help

799
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 3: for sure.

800
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: Coaching is another one too, this therapy obviously, but coaching

801
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 1: is huge in the ADHD community because you're not like, Okay,

802
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you, Let's figure out all your traumas

803
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's like, okay, you're having trouble

804
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: with time management, Let's figure out what works for you

805
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 1: for getting better at time management. It's a it's a

806
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 1: legitimate way to approach ADHD symptoms. So are productive strategies

807
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: where that will probably also come out of coaching sessions.

808
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,120
Speaker 1: And one thing that you'll learn very early on is

809
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 1: phone calendars that are easily accessed, that you can put

810
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: reminders on all the time, alarms on your phone, anything

811
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: that can remind you can become like second nature to

812
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: use it to really help you navigate ADHD symptoms and

813
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: remember important stuff.

814
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 3: Systems, baby, that's the key, that's right, Getting systems in

815
00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 3: place ADHD or not. Systems are just the older I get,

816
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 3: the more I realize it. If you don't have a

817
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 3: system in place, then you're just you're just flailing.

818
00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:12,800
Speaker 2: You know. You got to get a system. They did,

819
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 2: you know, outcomes are pretty good.

820
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 3: There was a survey This is a little bit old,

821
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 3: but it's you know, I think it's probably still pretty

822
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 3: pretty on par. But twenty twenty twenty twelve, twenty twelve

823
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 3: survey of three hundred and fifty one English language studies,

824
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 3: So I guess this is like a meta analysis of

825
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 3: long term outcomes of people with ADHD found that seventy

826
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 3: two percent of people treated had improved outcomes when it

827
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 3: comes to everything from self esteem to fewer accidents behind

828
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:46,240
Speaker 3: the wheel, less rates of addiction, anti social behavior, increased employment,

829
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:51,520
Speaker 3: increased academic success. So seventy two percent if you are treated,

830
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: that's that's great, that's really successful.

831
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of good resources too for ADHD.

832
00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:03,680
Speaker 1: There's a researcher named Melissa Orlov. She holds marriage seminars

833
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: that really kind of paint ADHD in an almost exclusively

834
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: positive light. And if you were a couple that's tried

835
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: like traditional marriage counseling, you've been like, this isn't working.

836
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 1: It's because that stuff's geared toward neurotic typical people. Hers

837
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: is geared toward neurodiverse people. Melissa Orlov is very frequently

838
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: criticized as being overly positive about ADHD. There's a researcher

839
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: named Gina Perla who came out with a much more

840
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: balanced look. It seems like an ADHD called is it

841
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: You Me or adult ADHD, which is a yeah. And

842
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: then Russell Barkley has written a lot of books too

843
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 1: for kids and parents and adults, and he was the

844
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,040
Speaker 1: president of the American Psychological Association for a while, so

845
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:54,000
Speaker 1: he's no slouch no, And again, be very wary of

846
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,200
Speaker 1: who you're listening to on social media. But there are

847
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 1: psychiatrists who specialize in ADHD who post a lot on

848
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 1: social media. And Kim be really helpful on Instagram too

849
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:08,280
Speaker 1: that I wanted to shout out Perry Nichols mandanis it's great.

850
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:12,279
Speaker 1: And then the psych doctor Md. Sasha Hamdani, she has

851
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 1: ADHD yourself and she wrote a book called Self Care

852
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,279
Speaker 1: for People with ADHD.

853
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:21,800
Speaker 3: All great resources, and you know what, let's skip listener

854
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 3: email all together and just encourage people to support one another,

855
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,960
Speaker 3: dig into those resources, try and lead with empathy and understanding.

856
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 2: You get much further in life. And rate and review

857
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 2: our show.

858
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 1: Well put Chuck very nice. In the meantime, if you

859
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us, you can email us.

860
00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: You can send us that email to stuff podcast at

861
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.

862
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 5: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

863
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,880
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864
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,920
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