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Speaker 1: Oh, what is dilling my dogs?

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Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans, and this is Behind the Bastards, a

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Speaker 2: podcast about Scott Adams, a man whose self awareness is

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Speaker 2: so minimal that he often his hands clipped through his

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Speaker 2: writing desk like he's a character in a video game

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Speaker 2: from the N sixty four era. I don't know, how

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Speaker 2: was that, Randy?

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Speaker 1: That's perfect, That is exactly what I would say.

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Speaker 2: Okay, excellent, all right, So we have Randy Mulholland, artist

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Speaker 2: behind Something Positive, a wonderful webcomic, and now the legally

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Speaker 2: the Brain at least the limbic system of Popeye the

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Speaker 2: Sailor Man. Randy, how are we feeling as we come

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Speaker 2: into part two of this?

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Speaker 1: I am just thankful that you invited me an episode

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Speaker 1: that probably does not involve childhood a section no child vivisection.

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Speaker 2: We are he is? He is going to buy his

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Speaker 2: claim kill a kid in this so oh good, But

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Speaker 2: it's I don't think he really did. I think he's

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Speaker 2: just taking credit for it in a way that's kind

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Speaker 2: of more upsetting than if he just killed a child.

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe that's not right.

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Speaker 1: At least now there's not a kid who's dead but

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Speaker 1: that's a weird.

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Speaker 2: Oh there's a kid who's dead. Don't don't worry. Don't worry.

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Speaker 2: The kid dies in this episode. We're fine, it's all good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that isn't the responsibility of every episode behind

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Speaker 1: the at least once? Yeah, must die.

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Speaker 2: No, as soon as I announced that a child is

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Speaker 2: going to die in this episode, you know, like the

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Speaker 2: last scene in Return of the Jedi where it like

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Speaker 2: goes around the galaxy as all of the people are

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Speaker 2: celebrating in their different planets. It was it was that

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Speaker 2: was that was the behind the bastards fans. They're terrible

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Speaker 2: people a flame. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's choriscant. It's

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Speaker 2: the choriscant of our I don't know why I'm doing

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Speaker 2: Star Wars. Everyone's tired of Star Wars. Think of another.

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Speaker 2: Imagine I did another one, a different.

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Speaker 1: Story track thing.

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Speaker 2: No, No, I feel like that one's pretty saturated too.

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Speaker 2: What's one nobody knows about? Farscape? That's right, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: imagine I did a far Escape God. Okay, So back

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Speaker 2: to Scott. Early in his career, Scott Adams started receiving

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Speaker 2: requests for public speaking engagements, and he realized that this

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Speaker 2: could be a good side business for him. You know,

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Speaker 2: colleges wanted him to talk, and also a lot of

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Speaker 2: like corporations wanted him to come and like give speeches

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Speaker 2: for their employees because they would.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're some manager.

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Speaker 2: You see people have like Dilbert cartoons up over their cubicles,

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Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, well, let's pay this rich man

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Speaker 2: money that could be going to races for our workers

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Speaker 2: so they can hear this weirdo talk about how he

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Speaker 2: draws Dilbert. That'll make him happy. So Scott, realizing that

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Speaker 2: this was a thing that he might make some bank on,

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Speaker 2: enrolled in a Dale Carnegie course and this is while

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Speaker 2: he was still working at Pacific Bell. But drawing Gilbert.

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Speaker 2: His employer was kind of willing to foot the bill

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Speaker 2: because they saw it as beneficial to them. And Scott

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Speaker 2: didn't know how to do any public speaking, and so

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Speaker 2: he felt like this would help him. Now, do you

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Speaker 2: know anything about Dale Carnegie.

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Speaker 1: That name sounds familiar and it doesn't make me h,

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Speaker 1: But that's familiar.

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Speaker 2: You've all, like most people, you may not recognize his name,

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Speaker 2: but everyone's heard of this guy's book. He's the guy

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Speaker 2: who wrote How to Win Friends and Influence people.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, my dad had yeah book, my dad, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to guess something approaching one hundred percent of

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Speaker 2: our listeners had one or more family members with this

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Speaker 2: book in their house. It's an incredit. It's one of

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Speaker 2: the best selling books in the history of like writing.

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Speaker 2: You know, say what you will about it. That's undeniable.

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Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie was born in eighteen eighty eight. He's an

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Speaker 2: American writer and a lecturer. And yeah, he got rich

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Speaker 2: writing this book How to Win Friends and Influence People.

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Speaker 2: It is still a best selling book to this day.

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Speaker 2: It is sold probably like just an unbelievable number of copies.

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Speaker 2: Whether or not this is a good thing kind of

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Speaker 2: depends on yourve But as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 2: I don't think Dale. You know, there's a lot you

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Speaker 2: can say about him. He was kind of like I

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Speaker 2: would say, like a lame man. But he was not

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Speaker 2: like evil, right, He's not like this is not one

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Speaker 2: of those like I'm subtly writing this book about like

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Speaker 2: how to influence people so you can like sexually assault them,

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Speaker 2: like you know, you're talking about like modern you know,

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Speaker 2: like Andrew Tait types. Like he's not that kind of guy.

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Speaker 2: He's just sort of like a little griftie, I guess

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Speaker 2: in kind of his his Like I don't think he

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Speaker 2: is a grifter, but like the way he talks is

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Speaker 2: very appealing to them, and the things he's telling you

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Speaker 2: how to do is kind of appealing to more. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's definitely like that's who the ought. We'll talk about

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Speaker 2: that in a little bit. Yeah, So Dale he had

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Speaker 2: been kind of a like he'd been like a salesman

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Speaker 2: who kind of quits his career midstream to become an

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Speaker 2: actor and just sort of like in order to make

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Speaker 2: ends meet. He starts out teaching public speaking classes like

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Speaker 2: while he's being a stage actor, and he finds out

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Speaker 2: that he's like a lot better that than the actual

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Speaker 2: acting and that there's a lot more money in it.

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Speaker 2: During one session with a bunch of people trying to

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Speaker 2: learn how to do public speaking better, Dale started asking

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Speaker 2: his students while he was again he's trying to like

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Speaker 2: coach them how to get up in front of a

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Speaker 2: room of people and talk. He starts asking his students

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Speaker 2: to talk about something that made them really angry, and

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Speaker 2: he noted that like people who were really reticent who

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Speaker 2: had trouble getting up in front of people and talking.

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Speaker 2: When they started talking about something that pissed them off,

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Speaker 2: they were able to get over their fear of public

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Speaker 2: speaking more easily, right, Which makes a lot of sense. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's not an like's not that I mean, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of worth noting, it's worth being the guy who writes

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Speaker 2: that down. I'm not taking anything away from him. But

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Speaker 2: that's not like for us today. And that's most of

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Speaker 2: like Dale's actual good advice is stuff that today we're

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Speaker 2: just like, well, yeah, if you're pissed off, it's easier

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Speaker 2: to like not think about the fact that you're nervous

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Speaker 2: in front of a group of people or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So Dale kind of used this and some other

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Speaker 2: revelations he had teaching these classes as the basis for

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Speaker 2: a book that promised to improve self confidence for the

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Speaker 2: average reader and teach them how to change the behavior

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Speaker 2: of others by altering their own behavior towards those people.

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Speaker 2: There's nothing inherently wrong with this other than that some

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Speaker 2: of David's some of Dale's advice works pretty well, and

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Speaker 2: kind of more to the point, I think the actual

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Speaker 2: problematic thing is that, like it's number one, it teaches

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Speaker 2: this kind of overly ritualized, rule based approach to how

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Speaker 2: to like influence and talk and convince people of things,

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Speaker 2: which can kind of there's you know how D and

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Speaker 2: D and stuff works, right where.

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Speaker 1: You got yeah, yeah, where you've got like, Okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: here's a character and this character game to level, and

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Speaker 1: so I pick a feet and this feat works with

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Speaker 1: these other feats and it lets them do these other things.

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Speaker 2: It's very there's kind of a hierarchy in terms of

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Speaker 2: how a lot of the skills work, right where you

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Speaker 2: get one skill and that allows you to get these

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Speaker 2: other skills and then you can do these kind of

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Speaker 2: like more complicated acts. That's not really how like charisma works.

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Speaker 2: But books like Dale's, I think, can convince people that

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Speaker 2: that's how it works. That if they just read these

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Speaker 2: books and stack these tactics, then they'll gain these like

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Speaker 2: eventually they'll get to do sort of the speaking equivalent

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Speaker 2: of like a whirlwind attack as a barbarian. Right, we're here, fine,

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Speaker 2: we have mobility, Yeah exactly, yeah exactly, And that's that's

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Speaker 2: really not how this stuff works. But I kind of

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Speaker 2: the fact that people start to believe that's how it works. Again,

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Speaker 2: Dale's not like a pick up artist, but this is

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Speaker 2: where we get pick up artistry, right, Like it all

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Speaker 2: kind of descends from the way that Dale talks about

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Speaker 2: how to win friends and influence people, and kind of

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Speaker 2: getting Americans advice on how to be more confident and

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Speaker 2: convincing is kind of like handing a loaded and chambered

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Speaker 2: pistol to a drunken chimpanzee. It's just not a great idea.

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Speaker 2: And yeah, we are. Of all of the peoples of Earth,

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Speaker 2: Americans are the ones who needed less self confidence. A

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Speaker 2: couple more hangaruts would be nice. Yeah, some humility courses

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Speaker 2: maybe make us. I don't know, we don't do so

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Speaker 2: great when we're scared either. I don't know how to

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Speaker 2: fix Themerica. Let's move on. Yeah, yeah, we should probably

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Speaker 2: just move on. I want to read a quote from

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Speaker 2: his book about his book from an article I found

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Speaker 2: in The Cut, which interviews science writer Maria Konikova, and

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Speaker 2: Maria is the author of a book on CON's and

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Speaker 2: conman called The Confidence Game. And here's Maria talking about Dale.

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Speaker 2: Dale Carnegie's had to win friends and influence people is

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Speaker 2: kind of the unofficial con artist's bible. Because a lot

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Speaker 2: of those tactics he talks about in terms of building

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Speaker 2: relationships and being successful in business are ideal for getting

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Speaker 2: people to trust you. One of the really easy things

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Speaker 2: is creating a feeling of familiarity. You're more likely to

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Speaker 2: trust someone who feels more familiar to you. It's even

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Speaker 2: enough to exploit something called the mere exposure effect, where

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Speaker 2: say you just go to the same coffee shop as

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Speaker 2: someone every single day, and they may not consciously note you,

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Speaker 2: but all of a sudden you feel more familiar. And

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Speaker 2: a lot of Dale's advice is kind of again, it's

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Speaker 2: not like necessarily all that problematic, and in fact, it's

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Speaker 2: kind of like the Art of War and that if

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Speaker 2: you like read it today, because some of the things

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Speaker 2: he wrote about have been so like spread so widely,

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Speaker 2: you'll be really bored. It'll seem it's like very basic

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Speaker 2: stuff to a lot of people today. It's all not

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Speaker 2: necessarily like bad advice, but it's just kind of like

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Speaker 2: basic as hell these days. Like people who obsess over

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Speaker 2: this book today, like people who obsess over the Art

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Speaker 2: of War are kind of like, I don't know, man,

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Speaker 2: there's like better stuff like it's been it's been a

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Speaker 2: one hundred years, Like there's better books on convince.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nice to know what if you want to

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Speaker 1: try to go back to the basics and see what's started.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 2: No, Scott's going to kind of religiously love this guy, right,

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Speaker 2: like he takes this on. This is kind of taking

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Speaker 2: the place of religion for him, and this is going

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Speaker 2: to build what sort of what does really in a

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Speaker 2: lot of ways replace religion in any kind of like

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Speaker 2: political sensibility as the thing at the core of Scott's

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Speaker 2: understanding of reality and how it works, Like what I

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Speaker 2: was just talking about, that sort of people take this

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Speaker 2: book and they interpret it like it's a D and

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Speaker 2: D manual, right, full of like feats and skills, and

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Speaker 2: as they level up, they can like stack these feats

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Speaker 2: and skills starting with this Dale Carnegie chorus. That's increasingly

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Speaker 2: how Scott is going to view the world.

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Speaker 1: I mean I get it from a certain viewpoint of

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Speaker 1: being with an awkward dirt kid, just like why can't

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Speaker 1: I have a cheap code? Why can't just be a

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Speaker 1: direct manual? But someone like him who's like, but I

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Speaker 1: want to make sure I'm always a special boy. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: in manipulations.

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Speaker 2: The other danger of this, like there is some value

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Speaker 2: if you want to be a public speaker. Public speaking

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Speaker 2: is like a technical skill, and like any other technical skill,

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Speaker 2: if you want to do that for a living, it's

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Speaker 2: not a bad idea to study it, to study what

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Speaker 2: other people have written about it, to try to learn

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Speaker 2: more about it. But when you have this kind of

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Speaker 2: very engineer focused view of how something like public speaking works,

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Speaker 2: of how persuasion, of how charisma works, then one thing

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Speaker 2: you're not going to do is ever listen to other people, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: because they they're just they're the they're the again, they're

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Speaker 2: like the cr you know, five monster or whatever that

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Speaker 2: you're trying to figure out how to like drop before

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Speaker 2: it can you know, do any damage to you or

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Speaker 2: something like.

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Speaker 1: They're not to.

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Speaker 2: See everyone is a cobalt. Yeah, yeah, last, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 2: That's That's that's how you're going to look at the world.

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Speaker 2: And that's not a great way to look at the

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Speaker 2: world if you want to be if you want to

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Speaker 2: like have humility or or be capable of like change

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Speaker 2: and personal evolution. Anyway, I do think it's interesting that

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Speaker 2: these Dale Carnegie teachings how they may have influenced what

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Speaker 2: I always considered to be one of Scott's more reasonable

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Speaker 2: philosophical claims. And this is going to take us back

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Speaker 2: into the weeds a little bit.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: Lawrence Peter was a Canadian professor who eventually came to

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Speaker 2: teach at the University of Southern California. His specialty on paper,

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Speaker 2: he's a professor of education. But over the years, Peter

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Speaker 2: felt drawn to studying organizations and why they succeeded or

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Speaker 2: failed in different circumstances, and he came to believe that

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Speaker 2: the best way to do that was to study hierarchies

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Speaker 2: within organizations and how they functioned and how they became dysfunctional.

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Speaker 2: He started to call himself a hierarchyologist, which is both

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Speaker 2: a fun term. It doesn't spell well, but if you

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Speaker 2: like say it out to yourself, it kind of works

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Speaker 2: pretty well. And yeah, he saw himself as like someone

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Speaker 2: who studies how different hierarchical systems function and don't function.

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Speaker 2: Lawrence was also a funny guy. He was kind of

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Speaker 2: renowned for peppering his different writings and essays and papers

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Speaker 2: with witticisms, like noblest of all dogs is the hot dog.

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Speaker 2: It feeds the hand that bites it. That's a Lawrence

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Speaker 2: Peter original.

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Speaker 1: Nice. I mean, that's a fun little quote. I can

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Speaker 1: see that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, not a bad little not a bad little little jape.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty nine, Lawrence co wrote a book called

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Speaker 2: the Peter Principle. The nut of the argument he made

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Speaker 2: in the book was this quote. In a hierarchy, every

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Speaker 2: employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence in time.

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Speaker 2: Every post tends to be occupied by an employee who

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Speaker 2: was incompetent to carry out its duties. Work is accomplished

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Speaker 2: by those employees who have not yet reached their level

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Speaker 2: of incompetence. Now, that is something number one. If you've

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Speaker 2: ever worked in any kind of large corporation, you will

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Speaker 2: be like, yeah, that shit works a lot of the time.

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Speaker 1: Right, it's pessimistic, but unfortunately it's yeah accurate. It is not.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be familiar to basically one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: of people who have worked in corporate America. Right, even

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Speaker 2: if you don't believe that's how it always works, because

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Speaker 2: obviously that's not how everything always works. But like everyone

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Speaker 2: encounters people who are in this position right where they

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Speaker 2: were good at something, and that's the whole premise of

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Speaker 2: the office, right of the American Office. Michael Scott was

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Speaker 2: a really good salesman who got promoted well past his

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Speaker 2: level of competence, you know, and.

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Speaker 1: You're receiving the American Office. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, that's the premise of the show. It's all

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Speaker 2: based on the Peter principles. Right, they're doing great, Robert,

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Speaker 2: thank you, Thank you. People watch that.

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Speaker 1: I think you should be noted that this is one

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Speaker 1: of the few times he like a pop culture reference

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Speaker 1: to a man's podcast and the guests didn't get it.

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Speaker 1: But Robert and you are very, very very correct. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm I'm I'm sick of all of you.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to go listen to my Ariana Grande records.

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Speaker 1: Wow you did.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's growth.

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, I was trying to pronounce it wrong. Did

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Speaker 2: I accidentally get it right?

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Speaker 1: You got it right?

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Speaker 2: A son of a bitch? What a what a shameful

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Speaker 2: moment for me. I'm going to go read the name

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Speaker 2: of some British towns to get my mojo back there

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Speaker 2: you go.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god.

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Speaker 3: All I'm saying is I've infiltrated your mind.

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Speaker 2: Now today you know what, the only way for me

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Speaker 2: to get back on top, I'm gonna I'm gonna read

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Speaker 2: Welsh street signs.

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Speaker 1: See how it goes for me. Small backwoods Massachusetts town

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Speaker 1: name so so yeah.

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Speaker 2: Peter Laurence, Peter, you know, writes this book about how

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Speaker 2: people get you know, people who are competent get promoted

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Speaker 2: past their level of incompetence. And that's how like hierarchies work. Now,

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Speaker 2: this is not Peter is not pretending to write like

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Speaker 2: a super serious book of psychology. He's not trying to

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Speaker 2: write a business book. Either it's a satire, right like that,

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Speaker 2: or at least at various points he will say that

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Speaker 2: it's a satire and there's a lot of like joking

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Speaker 2: bits in it. For example, all of the evidence that

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Speaker 2: he cites to support his argument comes from what he

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Speaker 2: calls his hypothetical case file. So he's not like citing

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Speaker 2: from like real things that happened. He's citing from like

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Speaker 2: hypothetical stories, some of which are probably based on things

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Speaker 2: he heard or things that happened to him. But it's

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Speaker 2: like it's very tongue in cheek this book, right, And

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Speaker 2: he would later claim that the principle is the quote

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Speaker 2: key to understanding of the whole structure of civilization. That's

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Speaker 2: kind of and again he's like sort of joshing around

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Speaker 2: a little bit, but he's also like there's there's something

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Speaker 2: deep there, like that is this is like, I think,

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Speaker 2: a valuable a valuable warning and a valuable observation about

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Speaker 2: how hierarchy very often tends to work, right, because this

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Speaker 2: happens throughout government, throughout company, you know, the business world

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Speaker 2: in militaries, like.

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Speaker 1: This is just a thing, and it's education nonprofits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can you can go back ten thousand years,

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Speaker 2: you know, looking at the best documentation we have of

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Speaker 2: different rulers of different and you'll find evidence of the

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Speaker 2: Peter principle. It's all throughout human history. So yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: it's a bit of like he's taken the piss a

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Speaker 2: little bit, but yeah, there's there's there's quite a bit there. Now,

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Speaker 2: the business community almost instantly adopted Lawrence's idea, even though

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Speaker 2: he was kind of like joking with it. This is

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Speaker 2: a hugely influential text for business people, for MBAs and shit,

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Speaker 2: and today the Peter principle is taken very seriously by

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Speaker 2: people who are like professionals at organizing corporate structures. In

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Speaker 2: a few seconds googling, I found a Harvard Business Review

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Speaker 2: article on quote overcoming the Peter principle and a Forbes

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Speaker 2: article titled new evidence that Peter principle is real and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to read a relevant quote from that real quick.

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Speaker 2: Three professors Alan Benson of the University of Minnesota, Danielle

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Speaker 2: Lee of MIT, and Kelly Schue of Yale analyzed the

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Speaker 2: performance of fifty three thousand and thirty five sales employees

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Speaker 2: at two hundred and fourteen American companies from two thousand

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Speaker 2: and five to twenty eleven. During that time, fifteen hundred

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Speaker 2: and thirty one of those sales reps were promoted to

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Speaker 2: become sales managers. The data show that the best salespeople

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Speaker 2: were more likely to A be promoted and B perform

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Speaker 2: poorly as managers.

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Speaker 1: So like, there's.

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Speaker 2: Actual data, you know behind this obviously not a universal rule,

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Speaker 2: but quite robust. So Scott Adams presumably learns about the

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Speaker 2: Peter principle while he's getting his MBA right, Like he's

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Speaker 2: kind of doing his MBA right at the time when

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Speaker 2: the Peter principle is kind of going viral in corporate America.

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Speaker 2: There's almost no way he wouldn't have read about this

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Speaker 2: and so probably listened to was at like conference and

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Speaker 2: stuff where people talk about it. And in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 2: just as Dilbert was blowing up, he decided to put

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Speaker 2: his own spin on the Peter principle in his first

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Speaker 2: text based book. So this is not like a book

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Speaker 2: of cartoons. This is like a nonfiction book. The Dilbert principle.

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Speaker 1: The delivery that was the book. Yeah, it sure is,

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Speaker 1: it sure is, which I read when I was like

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Speaker 1: ten several ten year old were you? I was a

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Speaker 1: ten year old who, like I would go through sometimes

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Speaker 1: three or four books in a week, like I always

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Speaker 1: wanted to read like that. I was like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: I got a lot. So my my uncle, who had

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Speaker 1: all the comics, was the guy. Also he worked at

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Speaker 1: a bookstore, and he would bring back what were called

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Speaker 1: strip cop books, which is like books that have sold

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Speaker 1: I know exactly we're talking about the ones out there,

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Speaker 1: Well we can't. Yeah, those are great.

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Speaker 2: So everything I read either came from those books or

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Speaker 2: from his library. And yeah, he had a lot of

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Speaker 2: Dilbert books. So I read a lot of Dilbert books.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, surprisingly, I guess because also Dilbert came out when

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Speaker 1: I was much older. Yeah, And when I think about

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Speaker 1: what I was reading at ten was like D and

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Speaker 1: D novels.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I read a lot of those, a lot of

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Speaker 2: dragon Lance.

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Speaker 1: Yeahs Scott Adams at that point, like yeah, oh, I've

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Speaker 1: read Hitching's Gut at each ten. Yeah, Like I remember

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Speaker 1: trying to pick Actually I'm trying to pick up once

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Speaker 1: my dad had a copy of How to Win Friends

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Speaker 1: and Influence People because my father was a union president,

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Speaker 1: and he and I remember pinging up and he's like,

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Speaker 1: you're too young for that. Go read something fun and

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Speaker 1: get out my hands.

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Speaker 2: Don't be That's that's honestly great parenting. Like don' go donco,

401
00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:34,639
Speaker 2: don't read this. This will turn you into one of

402
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,720
Speaker 2: these weirdos, Like go read something that'll make you laugh. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure at the time I read this, I

404
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 2: was like veering between the Wheel of Time series and

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Speaker 2: Delbert books.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I was kid whipping.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was a weird kid for sure.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, at least Gore books that's all I care about. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: good god, we that's another episode. We'll get to that

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Speaker 2: one of these days, Victorians. Yeah, this was basically the

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Speaker 2: Dilbert principle. As Scott describes, it is basically an inversion

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Speaker 2: of the Peter principle. Instead of observing that hierarchies tended

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Speaker 2: to elevate competent people past the level where they are

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Speaker 2: good at what they do, Adams envisioned hierarchy in business

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Speaker 2: as a defense mechanism to elevate incompetent people to positions

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Speaker 2: of upper management where they don't actually have anything to

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Speaker 2: do and thus are less likely to interfere with the

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Speaker 2: people who actually produce work. Right now, if you've also

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Speaker 2: like you've probably I think this is less common for

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Speaker 2: people in the Peter principle because I think most of

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Speaker 2: us have stories of upper management who have like fucked

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Speaker 2: around in our shit. But like, if you've worked in

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Speaker 2: a company, you've seen this too. Both the Peter principle

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Speaker 2: and Scott's Delbert principle, these are things that you can

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Speaker 2: observe in the world, right, These are not like Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I think both principles can be useful observations about

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Speaker 2: the way organizations work, get about pitfalls to avoid when

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00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 2: when created organizations. The Peter principle, I believe is a

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Speaker 2: lot more durable. It describes a much more widespread, I

431
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 2: would say, nearly universal phenomenon. I can think back to

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Speaker 2: like my own career at Cracked. All of my friends

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Speaker 2: and I started out writing funny articles and got promoted

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Speaker 2: to managing teams and like doing a lot of work

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00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 2: that we had absolutely no aptitude for because like we

436
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,479
Speaker 2: just wanted to make our funny little japes and suddenly

437
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,320
Speaker 2: we're like handling all of this like employment shit. And

438
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 2: you know that was that was There was a tough

439
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: learning curve there. I think that I lie, there were

440
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 2: you know, it was good and it was bad. It

441
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 2: worked better than it should have for a long time.

442
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,159
Speaker 2: But like I can definitely say, and it's not like comprehensive, right,

443
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 2: because we all still wrote articles and made videos and

444
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,800
Speaker 2: did the stuff we were good at. I think the

445
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,440
Speaker 2: thing that I would say if I was going to

446
00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,240
Speaker 2: like make a maybe a more generalizable, you know, version

447
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 2: of the Peter principle is that competent people get promoted

448
00:21:58,400 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 2: to the point where they spend less and less of

449
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: time on the thing they're best at.

450
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, Yeah, if you're not you have to or

451
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 1: at least you have to be very careful to avoid

452
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: that happening, right, because it's just kind of like.

453
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 2: Naturally what what hierarchical structures do to people who are

454
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 2: good at shit? So yeah, I do think that Scott's

455
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 2: Gilbert principle, while I have seen versions of this in

456
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 2: my own life, is a lot less widely applicable. For

457
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,560
Speaker 2: one thing, upper management constantly makes decisions that impact the

458
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,479
Speaker 2: lives of people who actually produce shit and interfere with

459
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 2: them getting stuff done, and like Scott knows this. He

460
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: parodies this in a lot of his early strips, right,

461
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: like management making dumbs, decisions that fuck shit up, layoffs,

462
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 2: you know, in order to drink, stock prices that force

463
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,280
Speaker 2: out productive workers in business units, that kind of shit.

464
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 2: And it's it's one of those things where like I

465
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 2: will give Scott some credit because it's there's in this

466
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 2: book kind of some valuable observations, and I don't think

467
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: most of it's like, I don't think they're valuable observations

468
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 2: to like a adults. I think this book is going

469
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,239
Speaker 2: to be is pretty basic for anybody who's been out

470
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 2: and lived in the world, but as like an eleven

471
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 2: or twelve year old kid. There were a couple of

472
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,080
Speaker 2: things that I found pretty influential, and in fact, one

473
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 2: I'm going to read one passage that I encountered at

474
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 2: a young age that I think is a pretty healthy

475
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,959
Speaker 2: thing for a young man to encounter at a young age.

476
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: Here's Scott.

477
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 2: I proudly include myself in the idiot category. Idiocy in

478
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 2: the modern age isn't an all encompassing twenty four hour

479
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 2: situation for most people. It's a condition that everybody slips

480
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 2: into many times a day. Life is just too complicated

481
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: to be smart all the time. The other day, I

482
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 2: brought my pager to the repair center because it wouldn't work.

483
00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: After I changed the battery, the repairman took the pager

484
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: out of my hand, flipped open the battery door, turned

485
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: the battery around, and handed the now functional pager back

486
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 2: to me in one well practiced motion. This took much

487
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: of the joy out of my righteous indignation over the

488
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: quality of their product, but the repairman seemed quite amused,

489
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 2: and so did every other customer in the lobby on

490
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: that day. In that situation, I was a complete idiot,

491
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 2: Yet somehow I managed to operate a motor vehicle to

492
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 2: the repair shop and back. It is a wondrous human

493
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: characteristic to be able to slip into and out of

494
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 2: idiocy many times a day without noting noticing the change,

495
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 2: or accidentally killing innocent bystanders in the process. And I

496
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 2: think that's actually a pretty good observation. I think it's

497
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: also this this obsession that we have through media with

498
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 2: like hypercompetent protagonists, like isn't real, Like, there's nobody who's

499
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,120
Speaker 2: like that that I've ever met in my life. And

500
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: if you kind of accept that, you will be if

501
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: you're able to accept your incompetence, and given situations, you're

502
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: a lot less likely to, for example, try to wire

503
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: your own house and wind up electrocuting yourself to death.

504
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 1: You know, And I don't know, it was a useful

505
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: thing to come across, as it's you're the idiot, yeah,

506
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: and everyone is. The world is too complicated for you

507
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 1: to know how to like you can be. You can

508
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: know how to like from like from the ground up.

509
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: How like the Android or iPhone is coded right. You

510
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: could be an engineer at Apple or Google and know

511
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: everything about like how the actual software on your phone works,

512
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: But like you probably don't know how to solder the

513
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: entire thing together, and you certainly don't know how to

514
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: like mine the rare earth minerals and like put together

515
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,480
Speaker 1: that we're all out of our depth if you really

516
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: think about it all the time. It's other people around

517
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: us who know what they're doing and who have figured

518
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 1: things out, and that that keep shit going right, Like

519
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how to operate a power plant, but

520
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 1: thankfully there are people who do. You know, that's that's

521
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: the it's it's like humbling and valuable to think that way.

522
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 3: I thought you want to say, I don't know how

523
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 3: to run a podcast, and I was going to be like, yep.

524
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 1: I am Sophie Mellow.

525
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 2: Wow, wow, wow, hurtful, hurtful, but yes, I have no

526
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 2: idea what I'm doing. I don't even know what a

527
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: podcast is. Like, I've been trained to shout at this

528
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,679
Speaker 2: blinking light when the box in my cage turns on,

529
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: and that's that's what all of this is.

530
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: Let's how you get the food pillots.

531
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you see that it's now blinking blue, which

532
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 3: means ad break.

533
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 2: Ah, speaking of shouting from your cage and a blinking light,

534
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: here's ads.

535
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: We're back.

536
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 2: So I've just said, I think that Scott's got a

537
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 2: good observation here, a useful thing for certainly a young

538
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: person to encounter. The caveat to this is I don't

539
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: believe Scott believes a word that he's written there, or

540
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,679
Speaker 2: at least if he did at one point believe it,

541
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 2: he no longer does. But I don't think he ever

542
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: really did. For one thing, this book, the debrit Principle,

543
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 2: sells a million copies, which causes his ego to mistastasize

544
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 2: like a cancer cancer and devour his mind. I kind

545
00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: of think the more I've learned about him, and the

546
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: more I've learned about the stuff that he read and

547
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 2: that's in fla, I think he's like, we're all idiots,

548
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:05,639
Speaker 2: especially me. You know, I'm dumb a lot of the time.

549
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff. This kind of self deprecating thing he does,

550
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: I think it's a calculated shtick rather than evidence of humility.

551
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: And I think part of why I believe this is

552
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,959
Speaker 2: this line I came across in that interview with Maria Konakhova,

553
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: and here she is again describing a strategy from Dale

554
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: Carnegie's book that is really popular with con artists. There's

555
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 2: also the Mark Antony Gambit, which comes from Shakespeare where

556
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: Mark Antony begins a speech by saying, I come to

557
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: Barry Caesar not to praise him. He says the opposite

558
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 2: of what he then goes on to do, but he

559
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 2: primes people to think that he's on their side. And

560
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: I kind of think that's there's a version of like

561
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: Scott's doing a version of that with this, right, Like

562
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 2: he's saying, like, we're all idiots, you know, especially me,

563
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 2: I'm domb most of the time. But he's also that's

564
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 2: being packaged, is like and look at how smart I

565
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 2: am for realizing this and delivering this to you. You know,

566
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,199
Speaker 2: like there's there's a little bit of we can call

567
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 2: it like kfe of there. Right, So Scott's books get

568
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 2: increasingly popular from here on out. The next year he

569
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: publishes The Delberate Future, which, of course I also read

570
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,240
Speaker 2: as a small child. The subtitle of the book was

571
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: Thriving on Stupidity in the twenty first Century. It's a

572
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 2: pretty forgettable book. You would call it like a pop

573
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 2: futurist text about how technological development will impact people in

574
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: the future. Again pretty forgettable. It does include the prediction

575
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 2: technology and homeliness will combine to form a powerful type

576
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 2: of birth control, which is a joke in the book.

577
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 2: But I think Scott's going to kind of wind up

578
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 2: pseudo in cell in a lot of like his ideology

579
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,880
Speaker 2: and a lot of the things he says. I think

580
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: you could see this as like a precursor to that

581
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 2: he is currently like this week as we talk chatting

582
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,239
Speaker 2: with Andrew Tait about how nobody likes sex really like

583
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: it's not that good.

584
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, on yourself there, buddy, Yeah, I tell

585
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: you might be telling on yourself a little bit there, Scott.

586
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: It's weird, as you'll see a screen camp for a

587
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: someone late saying women don't actually orgasm. Women they never like,

588
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: oh bloody no.

589
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: And you know, you know what I'll say, for like,

590
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 2: the women don't enjoy sex, guys, you like, that's fucked up,

591
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 2: But they generally do enjoy sex.

592
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,000
Speaker 1: They just don't think women do.

593
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 2: Scott's like, boy, we all actually hate sex, right, And

594
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: it's like, for one thing, Scott, you know, there's like,

595
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 2: if you want to like explore this, you might learn

596
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 2: some stuff about yourself and come to accept some things.

597
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 2: But it would it would take having kind of a

598
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: more nuanced and plastic view of human intimacy that I

599
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 2: think you're capable of having.

600
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: But I don't know if you were more of a

601
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: self reflective guy, well learning he was Ace. Yeah, I

602
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: don't know that he is.

603
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 2: But some of the stuff he says is like, well, Scott,

604
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: if if you think that you've never maybe yeah, I

605
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 2: don't know, A more thoughtful person might like come to

606
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: some conclusions about himself through that. Scott just decides that

607
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: everybody feels the same way, and we're all lying about

608
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: enjoying sex for some reason, which I don't know. I

609
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: feel about that however you want so. The weird part

610
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 2: of the Book of the Delberate Future comes near the end,

611
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 2: when Scott starts writing about his habit of making affirmations

612
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: for the first time. He gives a couple of examples

613
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: of times that affirmations worked for him, and both repeatedly

614
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: gives a caveat that he's not saying there's anything supernatural

615
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: happening here, and also kind of leaving the impression that

616
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 2: he thinks he's discovered some kind of magical reality hack.

617
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: Over time and far too many books, Scott's feelings on

618
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: the Delbert principle and affirmation. Do you know what affirmations are?

619
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, as a whole like speaker truth in the universal world. Yeah,

620
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: and the secret is basically it's the secret.

621
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: Right you have to ask if you tell the universe

622
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 2: what you're going to get or what you want, like,

623
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: it'll provide it for you. There's some rules to it, generally,

624
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: like the way Scott sees it, he has to like

625
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 2: write it down a certain number of times a day.

626
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 2: You have to be really specific about the thing that.

627
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: You're going to do.

628
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,760
Speaker 2: So it's not just like I want to do well

629
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 2: in this class, but I'm going to improve my score

630
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,600
Speaker 2: on this, you know, exam from this to this or

631
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 2: something like that. You have to be very and like,

632
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think there's actually anything wrong with

633
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 2: this idea, Like if affirmations help you focus your mind,

634
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: focus on building skill in something, it's a it's you know,

635
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 2: I can I see. I think for reasonable people this

636
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 2: thing can be kind of a version of like meditation,

637
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: right where you.

638
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: Think for most people that work can be this is

639
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 1: a harmless thing you did. Yeah, it's a personal ritual

640
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: and even that that can be still calming. Yeah, it

641
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: could be calming.

642
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: It can help you kind of you get up in

643
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 2: the morning and you kind of you write your affirmations.

644
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 2: That helps you focus on like the things that you're.

645
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: Going to work on.

646
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: That's that's perfectly healthy if that works for you, Like,

647
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 2: that's a great thing to do. Scott is I think

648
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:42,479
Speaker 2: kind of inherently hardwired to go really dogmatic about this stuff.

649
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: Like he presents himself as as very much like an

650
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 2: atheist and irrationalist, but he builds these kind of like

651
00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 2: labyrinthine rule systems about this stuff. Rather than being like, oh,

652
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 2: you know, affirmations really helped me focus my mind and

653
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 2: I did well on that test, he has to like

654
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 2: set up these kind of increasingly arcane rule systems. He's

655
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: the kind of guy again, if he was a little

656
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 2: more open minded, a little cooler, he would have been,

657
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 2: like in the eighteen hundreds, like one of these guys

658
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: writing books about magic. You know, he would have convinced

659
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: himself he was a wizard and probably would have been

660
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: a healthier, happier person. Become a wizard, Scott Adams, You'll

661
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: you'll like it more than being I don't know, a

662
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 2: weird racist on YouTube.

663
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: What his new book Dilbert Mancy. Yeah, Delbert Mancy, come on, Scott,

664
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: at least give us that you know where owed it?

665
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: Added Gandle Yeah exactly, Yeah, brit come on. So over

666
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: time kind of this, Scott's feelings on the Dilbert principle

667
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: and affirmations will evolve into this kind of labyrinthine scientifico

668
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 1: religious ideology with one goal, and that goal is explaining

669
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 1: why Scott Adams deserved his fame and incredible wealth, right.

670
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: And that's the really problematic thing about Scott here is

671
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 2: that he's focusing all of this stuff. He's not just

672
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: using it to as like, here's you know, how you

673
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,719
Speaker 2: can improve your life. He's using it to kind of

674
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: a priori justify, like why he's earned everything, Like why

675
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:16,719
Speaker 2: luck didn't play into his, you know, life as much

676
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 2: as it really did.

677
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: Why does he care? Like because no one else is

678
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: like asking I think God deserved money? No one never

679
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 1: comes up.

680
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: I think it's simple, which is that if you are

681
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: really successful in a field where the odds are long

682
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: and against you, as God often notes, and you suddenly

683
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: make a shitload of money and become famous, it's pretty

684
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: natural to be terrified that it might end because you

685
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 2: never fully understand why it happened. Right, There's always people

686
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 2: around you who are just as talented, who work just

687
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 2: as hard, and shit doesn't work out for and the

688
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 2: fact that some people make it and some people don't

689
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,600
Speaker 2: is kind of scary, right, And I think again the

690
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: mental the healthy thing to do is kind of embrace

691
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 2: the humility that that should engender in you and have

692
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 2: that influence how you treat other people and how you

693
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: try to give other people opportunities and try to level

694
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 2: the playing field and try to provide options for people

695
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 2: who benefit from luck less than you. The unhealthy way

696
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: to do it is to find justifications. Some people use religion,

697
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 2: Scott's weirder about it for why you deserve like and

698
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,959
Speaker 2: it's because in Scott's case, I discovered the secret rules

699
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: of the universe, and you know, hacked my way into

700
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 2: being an influencer. I'm a master persuading. Really, in that

701
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,840
Speaker 2: egg he found was a child, not just ten dollars.

702
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: The secrets the secret and that's kind of the primary

703
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 2: immorality at the center of Scott Adams in a lot

704
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 2: of ways, I think. So before Scott sort of degenerates

705
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: to a Trump reply guy, which is where this is

706
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 2: building towards. He got the chance to make his own

707
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 2: television show. On January twenty fifth, nineteen ninety nine, Gilbert

708
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: launched as an adult animated sitcom on You Up the

709
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 2: Network where I watched Star Trek Voyager as a little kid.

710
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 2: It was the highest rated comedy series premiere in network history,

711
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 2: but very few people watched UPN, so that's not much praise.

712
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,520
Speaker 2: The show had quite a lot going for it though.

713
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 2: Larry Charles, who was a Seinfeld writer, was on the

714
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 2: development team. Danny Elfman, as we've talked about, was like

715
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 2: the theme music, and it's got some great voices in it.

716
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 2: Daniel Stern, who's Marv from Home Alone, did a lot

717
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 2: of the voices. Kathy Griffin does a voice. Jason Alexander

718
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: is up in there, you know from again, a lot

719
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 2: of like Seinfeld.

720
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: After who did the Boss, because he's a really good time.

721
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: I think it's Larry's yeah, yeah, yeah, I forget you

722
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: like to play the really good smug asshole in the eighties

723
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: and nineties.

724
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 2: The voices are pretty good. It's not like an incompetent show.

725
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 2: Like it's not bad whenever it comes online. Now, people

726
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 2: who like watch it as kids are like, well, the

727
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 2: show was actually really good. I did rewatch a lot

728
00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 2: of it recently. I wouldn't say it's really good, but

729
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 2: for an adult animated series in nineteen ninety nine, it's

730
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 2: perfectly fine, right.

731
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,479
Speaker 1: It was. It was different. It was something that wasn't

732
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: trying to be the Simpsons, which was rare at that point. Yeah,

733
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,439
Speaker 1: was trying to go the opposite direction of like family guy,

734
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: let's be as edgy and weird as we can. No,

735
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: it's just it gave what it promised. It was dilvert show.

736
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: It sure was, and that's there's nothing wrong with that.

737
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: Chris Elliott was Dogbert. I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

738
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: Kent was a boss. Yeah it all it all like,

739
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,759
Speaker 1: the voices are are all pretty competent. So here's all

740
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,359
Speaker 1: Scott says about it in his two thousand and two book,

741
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: published a year or so after the show's second season

742
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: in cancelation in nineteen ninety eight, I started working on

743
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: what would become the Delver TV show that ran on

744
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: UPN during nineteen ninety nine and two thousand. We had

745
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: a tiny operating budget, so I found myself doing more

746
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,919
Speaker 1: of the writing than I had expected. Now, I don't

747
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: actually know what went on in that writer's room and

748
00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: how much of the good parts of the show were

749
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: the Seinfeld guy and the other writers, how much of

750
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: it was Scott.

751
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 2: But he does. You get a taste of Scott Adams

752
00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: in this series. His voice shines through, and when it does,

753
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,279
Speaker 2: it's often in uncomfortable ways. And I'm gonna play you

754
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: a clip now from an episode, and this is one

755
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 2: where Gilbert's antagonist in this episode is a bad guy

756
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 2: whose name is literally Bob Bastard, and Bob is trying

757
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: to unfairly sabotage and invention that Dilbert made. And as

758
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: a result of Bob being an asshole, all of everyone,

759
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: and especially like the female engineer Alice, loves him right

760
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 2: and Alice falls madly in love with him, even though

761
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,960
Speaker 2: he's nothing but a dick to her. This is a

762
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 2: very uncomfortable scene, but like, it's not hard to see

763
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 2: what Scott's trying to say. Here you get another little

764
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 2: glimpse of that sort of attitude.

765
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 1: What are you doing, I'm not doing anything. Why are

766
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: you dressed like that? I'm not dressed like that. You're

767
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 1: trying to look like him don't be ridiculous. It's just

768
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: that all my non Bob Bastard imitation closer in the laundry.

769
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: This is all I have left. What has happened to you?

770
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: Are you with Bob Bastard's camp? Now he has a camp? Cool?

771
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,439
Speaker 1: Why do I try?

772
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 4: I think we make a terrific couple, Alice, you really

773
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 4: think so? No, I'm just toying with your emotions since

774
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 4: I caught you in such a good mood. Can I

775
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 4: borrow another fifty bucks?

776
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 1: Another fifty Oh, forget it.

777
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 4: If you're gonna lay some kind of trip on me,

778
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 4: I'll see you around.

779
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: No. Wait, okay, here, make that a hundred bucks.

780
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 4: I'm saving up for a new mask.

781
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 1: What do you mean you're changing your name? Seriously, don't

782
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 1: you think it sounds good? Wally Bastard? Have you lost

783
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 1: your all? Right?

784
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 2: That's so that's enough, you get it, right?

785
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:43,800
Speaker 1: Yep?

786
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:44,000
Speaker 4: Uh.

787
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: Women fall for abusive jerky.

788
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, women fall for abusive jerks. The unsaid part is

789
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:52,960
Speaker 2: not like me, Scott Adams. Why don't they love me?

790
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 2: I'm so much better than all of the guys who

791
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: get the It's very you see this all of the internet. Now,

792
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,399
Speaker 2: Scott was a was a trailblazer ahead of his time

793
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 2: with this sort of.

794
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: Shit be a shit.

795
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also kind of get signs of this of

796
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: kind of what is now for Scott, an abiting hatred

797
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: of all journalists, who he seems to think are unethical

798
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 2: by nature of doing their job. He thinks it's like

799
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: unethical to report on stuff that's happening in the world.

800
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 2: This is now a pretty standard belief on the far right,

801
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 2: but it was less common in two thousand and two,

802
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: and it's it's pretty clear in this clip.

803
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: What makes you qualified to be a reporter?

804
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 4: I'm willing to violate anyone's privacy for my personal gain

805
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 4: and then claim with a straight face that the public

806
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: has a right to know, all right, So.

807
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 2: Not subtle, right, And it's one of those things that

808
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: people who are remembering this is a good show, like

809
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 2: it's not bad for the time, but like there's not

810
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: a not a great density of comedy in these bits here, right,

811
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 2: Like there's it's got its moments, but yeah, a lot

812
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 2: of it's like weird and off putting, and I think

813
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 2: most of the off putting part arts are Scott's voice

814
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: just kind of shining through clear as a bell. Anyway,

815
00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: the show gets canceled in two thousand.

816
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 1: And two by Adult Swim for a little bit, though

817
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: didn't like it. Does like rerun and reruns and stuff. Yeah,

818
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: they also got Home Movies which was also a you

819
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: Pancho Home Movies, which was a much better show. Home

820
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 1: Movies had something to that. Yeah, never watch it every well,

821
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: so every other year.

822
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 2: It's it still holds the fuck up. I I periodically

823
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 2: find myself singing the Franz Kafka song. But Scott's show

824
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 2: gets canceled. And now if I if I were to

825
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 2: ask you, why do you think Scott's show got canceled?

826
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 2: You know what would your answer.

827
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: Based It was a very targeted product on a rarely

828
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: watched network.

829
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:57,280
Speaker 2: Yeah pretty reasonable. Yeah, yeah, of course yes. And Scott,

830
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 2: to his credit, when he's interviewed about why the show

831
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: failed in two thousand and six, gives basically that answer.

832
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: He says, it was on upn and network that few

833
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 2: people watch, and because some because of some management screw

834
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:10,800
Speaker 2: ups between the first and second seasons, the time slot

835
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 2: kept changing and we lost our viewers. We were also

836
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 2: scheduled to follow the worst TV show ever made, Shasta

837
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 2: McNasty on TV. Your viewership is seventy five percent determined

838
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 2: by how many people watch the show before yours.

839
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: That killed us, that would probably do it. Yeah, yeah, I.

840
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: Don't know that Scott's I think he might be exaggerating

841
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 2: a little bit some of that, but like, yeah, that's

842
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: pretty reasonable, right. Not a lot of people watched it,

843
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 2: you know, they moved around the time slot, so people

844
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,399
Speaker 2: didn't like that was more important back then. If you've

845
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 2: only ever watched in the streaming era, you may not

846
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 2: understand that. But this is not an unreasonable thing for

847
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 2: him to believe, however, right, Yeah, he's not going to

848
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 2: stick with that opinion as to why the show gets

849
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 2: canceled for forever. But what we're building to that, So,

850
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,319
Speaker 2: right in the middle of the period of the time

851
00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: when the Dilbert TV Show is on the air, when

852
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 2: it's in fact the comic is at kind of the

853
00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 2: height of its popularity, Scott decided to try to branch

854
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:03,880
Speaker 2: out into another business, the world of health food, and

855
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 2: he's going to I've been waiting for this one.

856
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,959
Speaker 1: Yeah. He creates a product called the dil Burrito, which

857
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,879
Speaker 1: he says is like, so Scott is like a vegetarian

858
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 1: and he's he's angry that there's not any kind of

859
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: like good fast, like microwaveable food for vegetarians to eat

860
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: that can fulfill all of their nutritional requirements. He wants

861
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,960
Speaker 1: something again. He has this kind of very mechanical ad

862
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: which is fine. A lot of people feel this way

863
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,719
Speaker 1: about food. I know people who they don't particularly enjoy it.

864
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: They're like, I just this is why, Like soilet's a

865
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,560
Speaker 1: popular thing with some people. So you guys have heard

866
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 1: of soilet, which is like this, they're these meal replacements

867
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: sort of like shake is a little bit of an

868
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: odd term, but like it's it's a drink basically, a

869
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: drinkable meal fulfills all of the necessary caloric requirements and

870
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: you can do it quick. And I know some people

871
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: who do it because it makes weight loss easier for him.

872
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 1: Some people they just don't have a lot of time

873
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: in the day, so it's good for I know people

874
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: who take soilt because like when you're doing drugs for

875
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,359
Speaker 1: thirty six hours with your friends, you might forget to eat,

876
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: and it's easier to like pound a soilent than actually

877
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,120
Speaker 1: like eat a meal when you're on so much ketamine.

878
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: That like the world is like melting all around you.

879
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,320
Speaker 1: Scott wants this because he just wants like a simple

880
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 1: thing people can microwave and get all of their nutrients.

881
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 1: He describes it as only bad thing to want. It's

882
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: a fine idea, like sure, sure, I don't eat a

883
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: lot of meat, and I would love to have like

884
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 1: just simple make it in five minutes. Of course, it's

885
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 1: the most reasonable thing he's ever wanted to do. He

886
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 1: does describe it as the blue jeans of food, which

887
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,640
Speaker 1: I find kind of funny, but like there's a peal

888
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: to that. So the problem is that Scott doesn't know

889
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: how to do this. Like Scott has no idea how

890
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:49,560
Speaker 1: to make food. You don't get the feeling he's a

891
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: great cook, and he certainly does not have any experience

892
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: in like the business of mass producing food. So he

893
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: launches this product, which he calls the dil Burrito. I

894
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:06,120
Speaker 1: would say not great branding either. It initially comes in

895
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: Mexican Indian barbecue, garlic and herb flavors. It's described as

896
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: being a tortilla wrapped comestible consisting of vegetables, rice, beans,

897
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,920
Speaker 1: and seasonings that contain all of the twenty three vitamins

898
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: and minerals that nutritionists say are essential. Now, when you

899
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: jam as much nutrients as he's like, he describes as

900
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: like a vitamin pill wrapped in a tortilla, and when

901
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: you shove all of those vitamins and stuff into a

902
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 1: single burrito, it can have some negative consequences on your

903
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: gastrointestinal tract. As Scott would later say, because of the

904
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,720
Speaker 1: veggie and legume content, three bites of the dil burrito

905
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: made you fart so hard your intestines formed a tail.

906
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: It is a disaster as a product, millions of dollars.

907
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 2: It gets just lit on fire by this thing. I've

908
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,400
Speaker 2: talked to people who apparently ate them and said that

909
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: they were prett be fucking nasty, And to be fair,

910
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: Scott describes him as pretty bad too. So there you go.

911
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,880
Speaker 2: The del burrito. Kind of a funny little moment, but

912
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 2: not evil, right, He probably caused, yeah, disaster.

913
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: I have friends, I have a roommate. We weren't a

914
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 1: time who you know. He was a tech guy. He

915
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: was a vegetarian, bordering vegan, and he hesitated because well,

916
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 1: I like the idea of fast food. I just don't

917
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,319
Speaker 1: know that I would trust a fellow nerd making my

918
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: food and then someone else we knew ate it and

919
00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: basic that to never try it because they they basically

920
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: thought they were going to ship their actual brain out.

921
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 1: Like they described it as so bad they could feel

922
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: their capitillarities of moving out of their body. It's just like, Nope,

923
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: don't mean that incredible. I mean indible food around too.

924
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,400
Speaker 1: It was like dad Wood restaurant chain in the adults,

925
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 1: that makes sense. Dagwood eats a lot.

926
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you're if you're selling like the biggest sandwich

927
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:06,919
Speaker 2: anyone's ever seen.

928
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, and that's it. And this isn't quite as

929
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: bad as a Garfield restaurant they attempted in Toronto, was well,

930
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,359
Speaker 1: did he as also trying to do a restaurant at

931
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: one point or.

932
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: Was I just he did do a restaurant. We have

933
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 2: so much to cover. I don't think we're gonna get

934
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: into it. He ran an unsuccessful kind of restaurant in

935
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: the Bay Area at one point in time.

936
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: Jesus. Yeah.

937
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: And it's it's it's very interesting, like it is kind

938
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 2: of like going to Dilbert, Like using him as the

939
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 2: mascot for for fast food is a little bit like

940
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 2: I don't know trying to sell mace that's Calvin and

941
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 2: Hobbes branded, Like, I just don't see much of a connection.

942
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: And also I'm like, I don't know if I don't

943
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: know if I trust the Calvin and Hobbs guy to

944
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:50,760
Speaker 2: sell me mace.

945
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem like that's in his wheelhouse. Charlie Brown brand.

946
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, prophylactics, Yeah, yeah, the Charlie Brown condom.

947
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,759
Speaker 1: It works as long as life. Charlie Brown. You never

948
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: have sex. Weird diagonal line around the shirts? Yeah, absolutely?

949
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: Oh god, oh god.

950
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:19,120
Speaker 2: Cliff Heathcliffe brand off roading tires, Like, why are we

951
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 2: doing this?

952
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: What's going on? Cliff? That might happen? That comic is

953
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:23,399
Speaker 1: so fucking weird these.

954
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: Days it does go off the rails. So this is

955
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 2: all fun. But by two thousand and four, Scott there's

956
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 2: some signs of some problematic stuff, but he's he hasn't

957
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,720
Speaker 2: done anything fucked up yet really in a clear way.

958
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 2: He's expressed some odd beliefs, but he's not blaming diversity

959
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: or black people for his failures publicly yet again. The

960
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 2: book Where that stuff that we talked about comes in

961
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 2: from is published in two thousand and eight, but two

962
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 2: thousand and four is the point at which things start

963
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,840
Speaker 2: to go really wrong in his life. Because of a

964
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 2: legitimate personal tragedy, he develops the symptoms of a rare

965
00:47:55,920 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 2: neurological condition called spasmodic dysphonia. I'm going to quote from

966
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 2: an article in Braininlife dot org.

967
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: Here.

968
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: Adams's experience began in two thousand and four with what

969
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 2: seemed like an extreme allergy related at laryngitis. I used

970
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 2: to get laryngitis every May when my allergies were bad,

971
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 2: adams are called. It would usually last a few days

972
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:15,320
Speaker 2: or a few weeks and go away, so I didn't

973
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 2: think anything of this particular bout. That was the first

974
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 2: of dozens of doctors' visits and an equal number of

975
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 2: treatments over several years. I was diagnosed with respiratory problems

976
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: that I was tested to roll out strep, throat and

977
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 2: acid reflux. From there, I went to an ear nos

978
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 2: and throat specialist to check for polyps in my vocal cords.

979
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: Nothing made a distance. I hit a wall. He tried

980
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 2: a bunch of herbal remedies, and it's one of those

981
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,520
Speaker 2: things where like this starts out as laryngitis, but it

982
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: doesn't go away, and it gets worse and worse, and

983
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:45,000
Speaker 2: he continued, he starts having very basic trouble talking right,

984
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 2: Like he's finding it harder and harder to speak. He's

985
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 2: trying every scientific and also like herbal fringe remedy that

986
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:54,239
Speaker 2: he can come across, because he's just increasingly desperate. You know,

987
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: he's not able to go out and speak anymore. And

988
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 2: first his ability to kind of do public speaking goes away,

989
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 2: but soon his ability to just like talk to his wife,

990
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 2: to talk to his friends goes away. He's unable to

991
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 2: kind of communicate very well. He starts getting angry and

992
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 2: lashing out at people because he'll try to talk and

993
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 2: they won't understand him, and he just gets like enraged

994
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: at this. Eventually, this is what he says, kind of

995
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,360
Speaker 2: causes the collapse of his marriage. And this seems like

996
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 2: a responsibility for something. Yeah, he kind of does with this,

997
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: Like it does seem like like this has to be

998
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: like a terrifying sense I have, Like that's horrible.

999
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: Like I can't wish that on him, Like that would

1000
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 1: probably be a legitimate tragedy, Like that is a nightmare

1001
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: world to be in. Yeah, and yeah, you probably are

1002
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 1: going to last. It doesn't make it right. You shouldn't

1003
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: be lasting out of your spouse or anyone because something

1004
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,839
Speaker 1: happened to you. But I can get it.

1005
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, people don't perform perfectly in situations where they're both

1006
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 2: frightened and like something fundamental about their nature has been

1007
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 2: physically compromised. As Scott later kind of described, I felt

1008
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: like I was a ghoat in the room. It's hard

1009
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,719
Speaker 2: to feel connected to others if you can't talk and

1010
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 2: they can't listen to you. And yeah, again, sounds terrible. Obviously,

1011
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:08,839
Speaker 2: this is the kind of thing that's going to give

1012
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: you some fucking PTSD.

1013
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,480
Speaker 1: An today is an altered reality where he's like, so

1014
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,359
Speaker 1: I decided to start investing into nonprofits that help Yeah,

1015
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: if we worked out or whatever, I know if that's

1016
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,239
Speaker 1: going to happen, I know why, because that's not about him.

1017
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, he doesn't dedicate his life to helping others. As

1018
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: a result of this, it ends with him unable to

1019
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: talk entirely for like a couple of years, and he

1020
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 2: pushes everyone away. He basically lives alone in his home,

1021
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,600
Speaker 2: not communicating with anybody for an extended period of time.

1022
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: He considers suicide, but eventually he finds via googling his

1023
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 2: symptoms enough that there is a rare condition that meets

1024
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 2: his experiences. He finds a doctor who specializes in it.

1025
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 2: He gets diagnosed finally, and the doctor offers him a

1026
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 2: risky pioneering surgery. And basically the way the surgery works

1027
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 2: is they cut the nerve that goes to the main

1028
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,799
Speaker 2: muscle that's spasming, and then they graft a new nerve

1029
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,200
Speaker 2: in its place to prevent the muscle from atrophying and

1030
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: to stop the old nerve, which was like defective from

1031
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 2: growing back.

1032
00:51:11,040 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: That's amazing.

1033
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a really interesting thing that they did.

1034
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 2: The treatment is about eighty five percent effective. That the

1035
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:20,919
Speaker 2: doctor who does it says that about eighty five percent

1036
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: of the time it provides, you know, an improvement or

1037
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: complete cessation of symptoms, which is like not that's not

1038
00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 2: bad odds, but also like a fifteen percent chance that

1039
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,440
Speaker 2: you never talk again is like that's scary.

1040
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 1: You know, that's not low enough to not be terrifying, Right,

1041
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,280
Speaker 1: that is a love Then I would want to gamble

1042
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: on most things much less.

1043
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah my voice, Yeah, I I Yeah, it's it's scary,

1044
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: but like again, by this point, he can't talk already,

1045
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,399
Speaker 2: so he doesn't have any other options. So he has

1046
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: the surgery in two thousand and eight, the same year

1047
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 2: that he publishes the book where he blames all of

1048
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 2: his life problems on black people, and after three years

1049
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:00,920
Speaker 2: of enforced isolation, in near endless silence, he starts being.

1050
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:01,719
Speaker 1: Able to talk again.

1051
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: And the way Scott describes it, the surgery works perfectly

1052
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 2: and he's been fine ever since. Now there is a theory,

1053
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 2: and you might call it a conspiracy.

1054
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: I don't know.

1055
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,440
Speaker 2: Conspiracy is the wrong term because there's a conspiracy. But

1056
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:15,960
Speaker 2: there's a theory that you get among people who like

1057
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: follow Scott and have followed him really going insane on

1058
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 2: Twitter and stuff, that something goes wrong in this surgery

1059
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 2: and it damages his brain and that causes some of

1060
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: the behavioral changes that we see in him after this point.

1061
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 2: I don't have any evidence of this. I've never heard

1062
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:37,200
Speaker 2: the doctor obviously, like say anything about this. I don't know,

1063
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 2: Like it is true that after the he has this

1064
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 2: surgery two thousand and eight, this is the year where

1065
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,600
Speaker 2: he becomes like very rapidly, he becomes increasingly racist and

1066
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: aggressive online. But also number one, I think I can

1067
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,439
Speaker 2: see signs of the stuff that he would do later.

1068
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: And number two, I'm not saying there's no chance to

1069
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,720
Speaker 2: something like that happened. That's a possibility, but like rather

1070
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 2: than something fucking shady happening during the surgery, I find

1071
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:08,479
Speaker 2: it kind of likelier that three years of not being

1072
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 2: able to speak of, losing every close relationship in his life,

1073
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 2: of being completely isolated is what causes the behavioral changes

1074
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 2: for the work. Now, that sounds a lot more like that.

1075
00:53:18,640 --> 00:53:21,960
Speaker 2: And honestly, if nothing else, just like you came out

1076
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: of this situation, like where you are facing a permanent

1077
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 2: life altering situation, Yeah you maybe like fuck it, I'm

1078
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: just going to throw caution to the end. Oh this

1079
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: I feel weird about that, because how can we know,

1080
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:41,520
Speaker 2: Like that's I don't think about anybody who has surgery. Really, yeah,

1081
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 2: I think that it's more. I mean, think about America,

1082
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 2: Think about the COVID lockdown. Think about for how many

1083
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:51,959
Speaker 2: people that period of isolation was the straw that broke

1084
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 2: the camel's back, that sent them spiraling into like Ashley Babbitt,

1085
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 2: you know, like it doesn't take like We're all a

1086
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 2: lot of us, most of us maybe are kind of

1087
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:04,080
Speaker 2: fragile at any given moment, and like, this is an

1088
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 2: intense thing to deal with. I don't think I need

1089
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 2: much more than like, Yeah, he lost the ability to

1090
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: talk for several years and it blew up his marriage

1091
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 2: and he lost everyone who was close to him for

1092
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 2: a while and lived alone as a hermit. Not yeah, man,

1093
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:20,920
Speaker 2: I can see that fucking you up.

1094
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, like even if like just like the

1095
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: everyone I care about left, yeah, or I pushed him away. Yeah, No,

1096
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: that's what I'm like. Yeah, oh my god, Like I

1097
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: just can't even have fathom like how that would be

1098
00:54:34,000 --> 00:54:35,280
Speaker 1: as anyone.

1099
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: I can see you not becoming the best version of

1100
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 2: yourself after that, Right.

1101
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,799
Speaker 1: You're either going to tell on a mia culpa tour

1102
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: and trying to fix or you're just gonna say, well shit,

1103
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: yeah why not? Yeah yeah.

1104
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 2: So And in two thousand and eight, Scott publishes the

1105
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 2: book Twenty Years of Dilbert, which is what I've been

1106
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: quoting from several times. It's where he repeatedly blames diversity

1107
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 2: programs for the great failure of his life. And it's

1108
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 2: interesting because after this point he also like in this book,

1109
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,920
Speaker 2: like he blames you know, losing his job, not getting

1110
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 2: promoted on diversity programs, and he blames now. In two

1111
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: thousand and eight, he blames black people for the failure

1112
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 2: of his television show, saying, quote, the show started out well,

1113
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 2: but in the second season the network made a strategic

1114
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,200
Speaker 2: decision to focus on shows with African American actors. Gilbert

1115
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,960
Speaker 2: lost its time slot and cancelation followed. And that's very

1116
00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: different from the reasonable answer that he gives in two

1117
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 2: thousand and six. It's also definitely not true. For the

1118
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 2: next fifteen years or so, Scott is going to bring

1119
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 2: these incidents up with increasing regularity. In twenty seventeen, he tweeted,

1120
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: I lost my TV show for being white when UPN

1121
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 2: decided it would focus on an African American audience. That

1122
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 2: was the third job I lost for being white. The

1123
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 2: other two are in corporate America. They told me directly,

1124
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: which is again different on the story he.

1125
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: Gives Vampire Slayer around this time. Yeah, man, it's not

1126
00:55:57,080 --> 00:55:59,719
Speaker 1: because you're white. Like it was number one UPN, not

1127
00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: a ground network. Number two. Your show didn't find an audience.

1128
00:56:03,320 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 1: Most shows don't kind of getting two seasons isn't super common, bro, Like,

1129
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,880
Speaker 1: you got actually more of a chance than most people.

1130
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:14,759
Speaker 1: And it's like any reasonable person who gets to be

1131
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: worth hundreds of millions of dollars for drawing doodles would

1132
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: be like, I have no complaints about this system, right yeah? Yeah,

1133
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: like just worked out perfect for me. Like, are you crazy, Scott,

1134
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:31,560
Speaker 1: Like you have been the luckiest anyone's ever been. I've

1135
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: never been rich. I have supported myself. I've been able

1136
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 1: to support my spouse when they were going through grad

1137
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: school off doing comics. I'm proud of that. I feel

1138
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: I'm very fortunate because I have not gone into an

1139
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: office to work since two thousand and four. I feel

1140
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: I'm so lucky. This motherfucker's worth millions. Yeah, he's like

1141
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:55,160
Speaker 1: like black people took my TV show. No, they fucking didn't.

1142
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 1: They just didn't like it. No one else liked it either.

1143
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: We all disliked it. We all took it from you.

1144
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,760
Speaker 2: You have like three hundred million dollars in a mansion

1145
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 2: in California shaped like Dilbert's head because of your glowing

1146
00:57:06,440 --> 00:57:09,600
Speaker 2: like the system has Oh yeah, his his house is

1147
00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 2: shaped like Dilbert's head.

1148
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: Look, that is absurd. That is the dumbest fucking thing.

1149
00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's funny because again he's like, they

1150
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 2: canceled it because they wanted to focus on shows with

1151
00:57:22,240 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: black actors. Other people have pointed out Gilbert had the

1152
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,960
Speaker 2: second lowest ratings of any show on television at the

1153
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 2: time it was canceled. And this is like when Scott

1154
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: made his big post, they can't it was because I

1155
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: was white. Like people brought this up and Scott goes

1156
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 2: ape shit, just like he did with Norman Solomon, he

1157
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 2: is unable to disengage, replying days later to his Twitter

1158
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 2: trolls quote, I successfully stirred up a hornet's nest of

1159
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 2: unsuccessful artists. They don't know they're part of the show.

1160
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: Don't tell them.

1161
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: I'm a master. Yeah, I was really manipulu. No.

1162
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're saying that, like you have seen tremendous success

1163
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 2: and the fact that not everything you did worked isn't

1164
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 2: something that black people did to you, Like it's most

1165
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 2: cartoons don't succeed. Everyone I know who's I know, I've

1166
00:58:13,760 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 2: known I know more than most people of like people

1167
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 2: who have been very successful in Hollywood, all of them

1168
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: have failures. All of them have more than one failure

1169
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 2: in their background. Scott, like Scott Scott McFarlane right, like

1170
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: who's made god knows how much money doing cartoon shows.

1171
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:34,160
Speaker 2: His first show gets canceled after like two or three seasons.

1172
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 2: Oh right, he's out of the base, Yeah, Scott, Why

1173
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 2: I was saying, Yeah, family guy, he's out of like

1174
00:58:39,080 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: the he's out of like doing that for years when

1175
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 2: the show gets canceled. You know, like his got brought

1176
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 2: back because it developed a fan base, which the dilbrit

1177
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:47,720
Speaker 2: show didn't.

1178
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:50,360
Speaker 1: But that's one interesting thing you compare that because they

1179
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 1: both got brought back, like re ran on that swim.

1180
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 1: But Sam may Farlane's, well, shit, if you're gonna be

1181
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: rerun it, I'm gonna do these bumpers. Yeah, lean into it.

1182
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 1: He actually built worked on if Yeah, I wonder if

1183
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: Scott at well, I mean I'm glad he didn't. But

1184
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: Scott has it put like effort like behind it, like

1185
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: that could have helped him too. He just he wanted

1186
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: to work the way it was gonna work, and it

1187
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: didn't happen that way.

1188
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 2: And so now also my suspicion, I don't I'm not

1189
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 2: an expert on Seth MacFarlane lore. But my suspicion is that,

1190
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: like for Seth, being doing that TV shows has been

1191
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 2: his whole motivating factor in life, and Scott.

1192
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 1: Was animator though, that's where he began. He worked, Yeah,

1193
00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 1: he worked for Cartoon Network, he did shorts in the nineties.

1194
00:59:34,120 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: I think he worked on a season of Johnny Bravo even.

1195
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense, And I suspect the reason he

1196
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 2: put in all that extra work on those bumpers and

1197
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,280
Speaker 2: stuff is that, like, this is what he loved and

1198
00:59:44,320 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 2: wanted to do, Whereas for Scott, the Delbert TV show

1199
00:59:47,160 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 2: was like a side gig in between drawing cartoons and

1200
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: trying to make burritos.

1201
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: You know, like brito Yah. Cannon's good, sir.

1202
00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:57,640
Speaker 2: It's such a weird thing to be Like, my like

1203
00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 2: third job didn't pan out. So black people are engaged

1204
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 2: to conspiracy against me.

1205
01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:10,640
Speaker 1: It's it's it's like, it's not evidence of great mental health. Yeah.

1206
01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,919
Speaker 1: If the entire black community was going to rally around,

1207
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: like we need to take one white man down, why

1208
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: the fuck would it be Scott Adens.

1209
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:19,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, to be fair, I think he's saying

1210
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,600
Speaker 2: that like it was these venal Hollywood types who wanted

1211
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 2: to get the black you know viewer or whatever. But

1212
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:28,520
Speaker 2: I also see no evidence of that Like Hollywood, especially

1213
01:00:28,520 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 2: in the early two thousands, wouldn't have killed a successful

1214
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 2: show by a white guy to please the black community.

1215
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 2: It wasn't a successful show, Scott.

1216
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 1: I can think of like a CEO of a channel

1217
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 1: killing successful shows was in the early seventies when CBS

1218
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:48,919
Speaker 1: did like the rural purge, where any show that took

1219
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 1: place or appealed to people in rural areas like Beverly

1220
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:55,360
Speaker 1: Hillbillies and he Hall got canceled despite having amazing ratings

1221
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to appeal to uh, they would

1222
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:02,120
Speaker 1: appeal to more urban viewers. Yeah again. It was white

1223
01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:03,560
Speaker 1: people hurting white people.

1224
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah again. Scott very silly man, So who knows

1225
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: like why he suddenly starts to go down this road.

1226
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,440
Speaker 2: But as he gets increasingly like obsessed with the ways

1227
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:20,840
Speaker 2: in which he's been wronged by diversity, he also starts

1228
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: to get increasingly elaborate with like his lore as to

1229
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:26,560
Speaker 2: why he thinks he's how he thinks he's uncovered the

1230
01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:30,640
Speaker 2: secrets to success in the universe. And the best example

1231
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:35,120
Speaker 2: of this is his concept of talent stacking. In twenty thirteen,

1232
01:01:35,160 --> 01:01:37,200
Speaker 2: he writes a book called How to Fail at Almost

1233
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,800
Speaker 2: Everything and Still Win Big And it's another it's him

1234
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 2: kind of pretending to be humble, where he's like, I

1235
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 2: was bad at all of this stuff, and I still

1236
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 2: got super successful. And I got successful because you know,

1237
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 2: even though I wasn't great at any one thing, I

1238
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,000
Speaker 2: had a bunch of little skills and they all synergize

1239
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: together to allow me to be a big success. You know,

1240
01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 2: I wasn't the best artist, but I understood kind of

1241
01:01:58,080 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: how to use the Internet, and so I was able

1242
01:01:59,680 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 2: to take advantage of that to like promote my cartoon strip,

1243
01:02:03,080 --> 01:02:05,120
Speaker 2: and you know that's why it was a big hit.

1244
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:05,439
Speaker 1: Right.

1245
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: Here's how he describes this concept more succinctly in his

1246
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,840
Speaker 2: book Win Bigley, which he publishes a few years later,

1247
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: you know, in the early Trump years.

1248
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:14,680
Speaker 1: Quote.

1249
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 2: A talent stack is a collection of skills that work

1250
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 2: well together and make the person with those skills unique

1251
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:22,880
Speaker 2: and valuable. For example, a computer programmer who also knows

1252
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 2: how to do good user interface designed would be more

1253
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:27,320
Speaker 2: valuable than one who does not. The power of the

1254
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,160
Speaker 2: talent stack idea is that you can intelligently combine ordinary

1255
01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:33,800
Speaker 2: talents together to create extraordinary value. The key concept here

1256
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 2: is that the talents and the stack work well with

1257
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: one another. Now that's not wrong, but Scott, that's not

1258
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,960
Speaker 2: a discovery, right, Like if you were if you were

1259
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 2: to go up to a person on the street and

1260
01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 2: be like, hey, do you think having more skills makes

1261
01:02:46,840 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 2: you more valuable? I'm going to guess one hundred percent

1262
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:49,560
Speaker 2: of people.

1263
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: Say like yeah, of course goes like yeah that when

1264
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: you turn in a resume, They're not like, oh shit,

1265
01:02:57,200 --> 01:02:58,800
Speaker 1: he's got eight skills supposed to two.

1266
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, oh he's got a great talent stack. No,

1267
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 2: it's yeah, learning things is good. You are a more

1268
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,120
Speaker 2: valuable coder if you know how to code more things

1269
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,720
Speaker 2: you know. And just like when it comes to like

1270
01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:12,720
Speaker 2: the artistic field, this is something that writers have talked

1271
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,880
Speaker 2: about for a long time. Oftentimes if you if you,

1272
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: I mean this goes back decades. You see, like writers

1273
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 2: answering letters from fans. Advice they'll give is go out

1274
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 2: into the world, like experience things, meet people you know

1275
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 2: that will make you a better writer. The more things

1276
01:03:28,120 --> 01:03:30,720
Speaker 2: you know about, the more things you can write about

1277
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,520
Speaker 2: with versimilitude. Robert Heinlen, you know, had a great has

1278
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 2: a great bit about like the creative value of having

1279
01:03:36,960 --> 01:03:39,800
Speaker 2: a broad base of skills of knowing how to you know,

1280
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 2: harvest crops and skin an animal and you know, go

1281
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 2: phishing and you know all these kind of like different

1282
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 2: things that are sort of like unrelated skills because as

1283
01:03:50,240 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 2: has hurt Heinland said, specialization is for insects. Right, Like, again,

1284
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,160
Speaker 2: what Scott is done here is he's taken a basic

1285
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: observation that is most people are aware of and that

1286
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,680
Speaker 2: people have been talking about one way or another forever,

1287
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 2: and has reframed it in kind of the gamified language

1288
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: of hustle culture. And I'm not sure if this is

1289
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: just Scott trying to work a grift and knowing that

1290
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:18,600
Speaker 2: he's just repackaging very obvious shit, or if he just

1291
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 2: hasn't read other people's writing, right, Like, does he legitimately

1292
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 2: fail revelation?

1293
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 1: Yeah? Do it?

1294
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter, yeah, yeah, but it is interesting like this,

1295
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:32,160
Speaker 2: And I think that kind of the way he does this,

1296
01:04:32,560 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 2: by sort of like treating it as such a dogmatic

1297
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: like a skill tree and an RPG, I think kind

1298
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 2: of makes it. It's it sets you into this very

1299
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:47,320
Speaker 2: like crystallized mode of thought that I think is more

1300
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 2: brittle and might make you less likely to pick up

1301
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,439
Speaker 2: useful skills if you can't sort of like figure out

1302
01:04:52,440 --> 01:04:54,680
Speaker 2: how that skill is gonna work in a talent stack,

1303
01:04:55,040 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 2: because like the skill Scott talks about that synergized together,

1304
01:04:58,040 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: he didn't like go into learning those things because he

1305
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 2: knew they would hybridize as well. It was more just

1306
01:05:03,240 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 2: like living a life where you have a wide base

1307
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:09,080
Speaker 2: of experiences makes you more versatile and more able to

1308
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:11,680
Speaker 2: like adapt to the world. And that's the only real

1309
01:05:11,720 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 2: meaning of intelligence. But you know what else is intelligent?

1310
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: Is it the products and services that weis to span

1311
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 1: our minds and skills stack.

1312
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:24,600
Speaker 2: That's right, every single advertiser on this show is a

1313
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:30,360
Speaker 2: member of MENSA. Oh that's the promise hear that. I've

1314
01:05:30,360 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 2: never heard of another podcast talking about MENSA. But here

1315
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:46,480
Speaker 2: we go, Ah, we are back. So good stuff, good stuff.

1316
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 2: So focusing obviously on acquiring talents that you can combine

1317
01:05:51,880 --> 01:05:54,920
Speaker 2: is a good thing. But I think Scott's talent stacking

1318
01:05:55,160 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 2: is kind of I think the way he's framing this

1319
01:05:57,280 --> 01:06:01,600
Speaker 2: is more likely more likely than making you talented. It's

1320
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 2: a very brittle way to interpret a phenomenon that, like,

1321
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:06,920
Speaker 2: viewed properly, can be liberatory. But I think looked at

1322
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 2: the way that Scott looks at it might lock you

1323
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,080
Speaker 2: into a world where all you do is draw Dilbert

1324
01:06:11,080 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 2: and repackage old self help books. But it works for Scott.

1325
01:06:14,680 --> 01:06:17,080
Speaker 2: He does get rich, which means he's never had to

1326
01:06:17,160 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 2: question the person that he's become or the ultimate value

1327
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 2: of his conclusions about the world. As the years go on,

1328
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 2: his work loses any edge of humility, and he veers

1329
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:30,120
Speaker 2: increasingly towards megalamoniacal shit. His two novellas are the best

1330
01:06:30,160 --> 01:06:32,920
Speaker 2: example of this. He writes two fiction books and kind

1331
01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 2: of the early aughts. One is called The Religion War

1332
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 2: and one is called God's Debris.

1333
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:41,360
Speaker 1: Have you read these books? Randy's definitely never heard of them.

1334
01:06:41,520 --> 01:06:45,920
Speaker 1: Oh oh boy, so oslo hesitant when I hear a

1335
01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:48,840
Speaker 1: cartoonist has written a novel. Yep.

1336
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 2: Well, Scott considers this his only his real legacy, that

1337
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: like he will be remembered for these books. He said

1338
01:06:56,080 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 2: this that like what I will be remembered for is

1339
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:01,880
Speaker 2: my novels. He believed these are very deep and contain

1340
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 2: important truths about the human condition that no one else

1341
01:07:05,960 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 2: has elucidated before. Now I have not read God's Debris.

1342
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,960
Speaker 2: I have read The Religion War. These are both pretty

1343
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 2: short books. You can find them for free online if

1344
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 2: you want to steal them like I don't think Scott

1345
01:07:17,440 --> 01:07:19,960
Speaker 2: put them up. But they're available, which is where I

1346
01:07:20,080 --> 01:07:22,920
Speaker 2: found them, So just google them and google the title

1347
01:07:22,920 --> 01:07:25,720
Speaker 2: and text if you want to read this shit. I

1348
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,160
Speaker 2: have read The Religious War. I would the Religion War.

1349
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 2: I would charitably describe it as an atheistic rant that

1350
01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 2: managed to manages to be racist on an almost unique level.

1351
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 2: The basic plot I will give Scott credit for this

1352
01:07:40,000 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 2: is summarized efficiently in the first paragraph of the prologue.

1353
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,640
Speaker 2: And here's Scott's book. Here's how it opens. In the

1354
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,919
Speaker 2: year two thousand and seven, a brilliant and charismatic leader

1355
01:07:50,040 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 2: named al z began his rise to power in the

1356
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:56,000
Speaker 2: Palestinian territories. He was the architect of the twenty year

1357
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 2: Plan for eliminating Israel, the success of which started a

1358
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,120
Speaker 2: domino effect in the Middle East, as one Arab dictatorship

1359
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 2: after another fell and their territories rolled into the Great Caliphate.

1360
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 2: Alsi's subjects heady from an unbroken string of victories, demanded

1361
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:11,160
Speaker 2: the spread of Islam to the rest of the world.

1362
01:08:11,360 --> 01:08:14,280
Speaker 2: AlSi understood that this was neither practical nor desirable, but

1363
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:16,639
Speaker 2: to satisfy the appetite of his people, he began an

1364
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:20,160
Speaker 2: unending war of minor terror against the Christian dominated world.

1365
01:08:20,439 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: The attacks were calculated to be large enough to look

1366
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:25,160
Speaker 2: like progress let's yet small enough to avoid provoking all

1367
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:28,799
Speaker 2: out war. Publicly, he blamed renegade groups for the attacks.

1368
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:31,879
Speaker 2: The Christian dominated countries k new Alzi was behind the bombings,

1369
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:33,960
Speaker 2: but they depended on him for their oil and wanted

1370
01:08:33,960 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 2: to avoid a larger war that would cripple their economies

1371
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:39,759
Speaker 2: and an all likelihood increase the number of bombings. Now

1372
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:42,760
Speaker 2: there's a lot that's insane about that. For one thing,

1373
01:08:43,560 --> 01:08:46,800
Speaker 2: Scott doesn't seem to know that there are Sunni and

1374
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:50,560
Speaker 2: Shia Muslims, and that they, like the all disagree.

1375
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,400
Speaker 1: About a lot. Neither of those words are in the book.

1376
01:08:54,040 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 1: Sunni doesn't show up, Shia doesn't show up. He doesn't

1377
01:08:56,880 --> 01:08:59,400
Speaker 1: mention Iran like we don't know what the Shia world

1378
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 1: supposed to be? Are you doing here? Like? He just

1379
01:09:02,280 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 1: is like all of the Muslims are in a caliphate

1380
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:07,760
Speaker 1: now because this guy and what so Alzi his plan

1381
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:11,400
Speaker 1: to destroy Israel is like he organizes the Palestinians to

1382
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:16,439
Speaker 1: demand democratic rights and like they become kind of quasi

1383
01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 1: equal partners in society and then one day they murder

1384
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:25,120
Speaker 1: all the Jews. Like, it's pretty fucked up. This is

1385
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,919
Speaker 1: a Christian novel that, like My Youth kind.

1386
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 2: Of does now He's he doesn't portray the Christians particularly

1387
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 2: sympathetically either, right, the big Christian general was also portrayed

1388
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,040
Speaker 2: as a bad guy. It's more like an early Internet

1389
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 2: atheist novel. But like, you know how a lot of

1390
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:46,120
Speaker 2: those guys, those like internet atheists from the nineties after

1391
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 2: nine to eleven went like super hard anti Muslim. Yes,

1392
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 2: Scott's doing the same thing here, right, it's pretty fucked up.

1393
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,759
Speaker 2: It's very racist. It's really funny. Like Scott has convinced

1394
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: himself that his novel was prescient because it predicted the

1395
01:10:01,439 --> 01:10:06,040
Speaker 2: rise of Isis. That's bullshit. That is not what Scott did.

1396
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,759
Speaker 2: All he did was use the word caliphate, which isis

1397
01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 2: also used, but also a bunch of governments have called

1398
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 2: themselves caliph. Very it's a thing it goes back like

1399
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:18,080
Speaker 2: a thousand years. It's it's been a thing for a while.

1400
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: Agree, there isn't one of my D and D books

1401
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 1: like for al Kadan. Does that mean like Ed Green

1402
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: nineties predict It's.

1403
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 2: Also like fuck Scott Is, like once they start winning

1404
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:32,800
Speaker 2: the victories, just number one, like the west Is just

1405
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 2: kind of ignores their campaign of low level terror, which

1406
01:10:35,640 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 2: we didn't. We like bomb the crap out of them.

1407
01:10:38,080 --> 01:10:40,519
Speaker 2: And number two he has this idea that like, well,

1408
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,599
Speaker 2: once a caliphate is declared, all of the Muslims just

1409
01:10:43,720 --> 01:10:46,080
Speaker 2: start clamoring to join it and take over the Now

1410
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 2: you know who actually defeated ISIS because I was there

1411
01:10:49,439 --> 01:10:52,599
Speaker 2: for quite a bit of it. It was Muslims, by

1412
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 2: the way, like uh whenever, like I don't know, people

1413
01:10:56,080 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 2: shot at me. The folks who like threw their bodies

1414
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 2: in front of me Muslims. The people who are like

1415
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:02,840
Speaker 2: at their day and night throwing like fucking with like

1416
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:06,559
Speaker 2: hand grenades and fucking combat knives, clearing buildings of ISIS

1417
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,439
Speaker 2: fighters were also Muslims. I watched him pray in the

1418
01:11:09,439 --> 01:11:13,679
Speaker 2: mornings before they would go get fucking shot. Like very offensive,

1419
01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:18,200
Speaker 2: this guy. Yes, I am very frustrated by Scott Adams

1420
01:11:18,240 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 2: and his racist book, and that he thinks he predicted

1421
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:25,480
Speaker 2: isis like, go fuck yourself, Scott.

1422
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: I mean, are you surprised though, considering like nothing else

1423
01:11:28,479 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 1: he's taking credit for it at this point.

1424
01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:33,360
Speaker 2: No, no, not at all. It just is like particularly galling.

1425
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:38,120
Speaker 2: So the way Scott writes about the Caliphate shows his

1426
01:11:38,320 --> 01:11:43,080
Speaker 2: fundamental incuriosity about the world. He never expresses any understanding

1427
01:11:43,160 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 2: of the actual religious doctrine behind the strains of fundamentalist

1428
01:11:46,400 --> 01:11:49,920
Speaker 2: Islam most associated with terrorism. Even if this book was

1429
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:52,600
Speaker 2: anti Muslim hate speech, it might have come from a

1430
01:11:52,600 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 2: position of understanding, you know, stuff like Selophism, right, it'd

1431
01:11:56,280 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 2: be one thing, it would still be bad. But if

1432
01:11:57,960 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 2: this was like anti Muslim and really gott into the

1433
01:12:00,880 --> 01:12:04,559
Speaker 2: nitty gritty of like different really problematic beliefs among extremist Muslims,

1434
01:12:04,560 --> 01:12:06,720
Speaker 2: like you know, Slofi Islam and stuff, that would at

1435
01:12:06,760 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 2: least show that like he was curious to an extent,

1436
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 2: you know, but he's he simply is not. And the

1437
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:18,679
Speaker 2: book itself does treat Christianity with a similarly broad brush.

1438
01:12:18,760 --> 01:12:21,680
Speaker 2: The American Leader is this like general like, by the way,

1439
01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 2: the whole West is part of the Christian Alliance, that's

1440
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,479
Speaker 2: what they call themselves with like, I don't know, man,

1441
01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: I feel like it's a secular I feel like all

1442
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: of the religious terrorism is part of why people have

1443
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 2: become more secular in the twenty first century, as opposed

1444
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 2: to making everyone pick sides in a religion war, like

1445
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 2: it's just not what happened, Scott.

1446
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:43,960
Speaker 1: Not fucking fuck.

1447
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's offensive to it should be offensive to anyone

1448
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:48,040
Speaker 2: who reads it.

1449
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:48,320
Speaker 1: Now.

1450
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 2: The conflict between these two big blocks is resolved when

1451
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,840
Speaker 2: Scott's self insert character who is a guru called the Avatar.

1452
01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,479
Speaker 2: Who is the Avatar is like a wizard, but he's

1453
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:03,360
Speaker 2: a wizard. He's a wizard of smart right, He's so logical,

1454
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,160
Speaker 2: it's so rational that his ability to like talk to

1455
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:11,439
Speaker 2: people and make rational arguments is effectively a superpower. And

1456
01:13:11,520 --> 01:13:14,360
Speaker 2: he solves the religion war becind because he finds an

1457
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 2: old lady who's like he describes her as basically a

1458
01:13:17,479 --> 01:13:20,799
Speaker 2: super influencer. Right, there's just this kind of mystical network

1459
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:22,800
Speaker 2: of people who are really convincing, and if you find

1460
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:25,320
Speaker 2: the right person, they'll talk to you know, fifty people,

1461
01:13:25,360 --> 01:13:27,439
Speaker 2: and they'll convince all those people and those people will

1462
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:30,480
Speaker 2: talk to another fifty people and then kind of stocata

1463
01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 2: or kind of like over in a very short order,

1464
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,720
Speaker 2: everyone will be convinced of something. Right, if you find

1465
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,120
Speaker 2: the right person, you're able to like seed a thing.

1466
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:40,920
Speaker 2: And this old lady comes up with a joke where

1467
01:13:40,920 --> 01:13:43,720
Speaker 2: she's like, if God is so smart, why do people fart?

1468
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:48,080
Speaker 2: And that revelation makes the entire world atheist more or less.

1469
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 1: That's the plot. That's the plot of Scott's book. I

1470
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:56,439
Speaker 1: hate this. I hate this. Yeah. By the way, if

1471
01:13:56,439 --> 01:13:57,840
Speaker 1: you're listening to this and you want to read an

1472
01:13:57,920 --> 01:14:02,200
Speaker 1: actual novels written by cartoonists Mel Lazarus who did The

1473
01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 1: Mama and Miss Peach's Class, I'm told I've read them.

1474
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: Watch of Horley Racist not but like and I was like,

1475
01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,160
Speaker 1: who was one called The Boss is Crazy Too, which

1476
01:14:11,200 --> 01:14:13,840
Speaker 1: was based off his time working in a CD magazine

1477
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 1: like fine stuff like that that's meant to be fun

1478
01:14:17,120 --> 01:14:19,759
Speaker 1: and pulpy. What the fuck? Yeah?

1479
01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 2: Or on the other end of the great cartoonist Alan

1480
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 2: Moore wrote a book called Jerusalem, and I'm gonna be honest,

1481
01:14:26,439 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 2: I haven't read it. No one I know who loves

1482
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,000
Speaker 2: Alan Moore has finished it, but you could put it

1483
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 2: on your bookshelf and occasionally read pages and people will

1484
01:14:34,600 --> 01:14:37,519
Speaker 2: think you're very smart. So sure, it's a great book.

1485
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 2: One of these days, I'll read it.

1486
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: If it's Alan Moore, you probably just like at absolutely.

1487
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 2: And yeah, I keep it on my belt next to

1488
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 2: my handgun in case you know there's a jam or something.

1489
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:50,320
Speaker 2: It's it's it's it's much more effective than a than

1490
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 2: a combat knife. Wailing on some Nazi with a copy

1491
01:14:56,479 --> 01:14:57,200
Speaker 2: of Jerusalem.

1492
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:01,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's my new master material. Thank you, I will

1493
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: I will remember that time. Sorry, Alan, I love you. Okay,

1494
01:15:07,800 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep freaking out about this book, going,

1495
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:11,559
Speaker 1: keep going, please, it's terrible.

1496
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,040
Speaker 2: So God's Debris, which is the sequel, is even more

1497
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 2: out of again, Yeah, it's a sequel. The whole thing

1498
01:15:19,600 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 2: is like a pseudo Socratic dialogue between a delivery boy

1499
01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:27,840
Speaker 2: and the avatar from the first book. It is charity

1500
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:31,759
Speaker 2: to call this freshman intro to psychology gobbledygook, Like most

1501
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,520
Speaker 2: freshman psych students would write a better and more insightful

1502
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 2: book than this. I'm not going to punish you all

1503
01:15:37,840 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 2: with too much detail, but you can get an idea

1504
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 2: of what we're looking at here with this passage, and

1505
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 2: this is so this delivery boy comes to give an

1506
01:15:44,360 --> 01:15:46,560
Speaker 2: old man a passage. The old man is the avatar,

1507
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:48,680
Speaker 2: and he's I guess, going to like pass wisdom on

1508
01:15:48,760 --> 01:15:52,040
Speaker 2: to this kid. So like, here's the delivery boy talking

1509
01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 2: to the avatar. It's for you, he said. That's that's

1510
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:59,440
Speaker 2: the delivery boy. What's for me? The avatar applies the package.

1511
01:15:59,680 --> 01:16:02,200
Speaker 2: I just delivered the packages, I said. My job is

1512
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 2: to bring them to you. It's your package. No, it's yours, okay,

1513
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 2: I said. Planning my exit strategy, I figured I could

1514
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 2: leave the package in the hallway on the way out.

1515
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,759
Speaker 2: The old man's caretaker would find it. What's in the package,

1516
01:16:13,800 --> 01:16:16,040
Speaker 2: I asked. I hoped to get an awkward to get

1517
01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 2: past an awkward moment. It's the answer to your question.

1518
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,679
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting any answers, I understand, said the old man.

1519
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to respond to that, so I didn't.

1520
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,080
Speaker 2: He continued, let me ask you a simple question. Did

1521
01:16:28,080 --> 01:16:30,840
Speaker 2: you deliver the package or did the package deliver you?

1522
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:33,919
Speaker 2: By then I was delivered a little annoyed with his cleverness,

1523
01:16:34,000 --> 01:16:36,759
Speaker 2: but admittedly engaged. I didn't know the old man's situation.

1524
01:16:36,920 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 2: But he wasn't as feeble minded as I'd first thought.

1525
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 2: I glanced at my watch, almost lunchtime. I decided to

1526
01:16:42,200 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 2: see where this was heading. I delivered the package, I answered,

1527
01:16:45,080 --> 01:16:47,880
Speaker 2: that seemed obvious enough. If the package had no address,

1528
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,599
Speaker 2: would you have delivered it here? I said, no, Then

1529
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,520
Speaker 2: you would agree that delivering the package required the participation

1530
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,960
Speaker 2: of the package. The package told you where to go.

1531
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 2: I suppose that's true in a way, but it's the

1532
01:16:58,320 --> 01:17:00,679
Speaker 2: least important part of the delivery. I did the driving

1533
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 2: and lifting and moving. That's the important part. How can

1534
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 2: one part be more important if each part is completely necessary?

1535
01:17:06,800 --> 01:17:10,839
Speaker 2: He asked, Now this is pointless, like there's no wisdom

1536
01:17:11,720 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 2: to be revealed in this, but also like it's like

1537
01:17:14,920 --> 01:17:17,120
Speaker 2: no delivery boy would be like, well, I'm the person

1538
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 2: I'm responsible for why the package. Now the deliverer would

1539
01:17:19,520 --> 01:17:21,120
Speaker 2: be like, look, man, this is my job. I got

1540
01:17:21,120 --> 01:17:23,599
Speaker 2: to make rent, Like that's why I gave you this package.

1541
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:25,280
Speaker 2: Someone told me to deliver package here.

1542
01:17:26,120 --> 01:17:29,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like, I have to do this to afford food

1543
01:17:29,360 --> 01:17:32,040
Speaker 1: and stuff, Like that's why I'm here. That's what drove

1544
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 1: me here is my need for food.

1545
01:17:34,040 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 2: Don't you Tube minutes like, no, the package didn't make

1546
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:40,839
Speaker 2: me come here, and like that, we're not equally integral.

1547
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:42,800
Speaker 2: The integral part of this is I need a job

1548
01:17:42,880 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 2: and this is the job that I have. Will you

1549
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:46,920
Speaker 2: please sign for the fucking package, asshole?

1550
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:48,320
Speaker 1: Oh oh god.

1551
01:17:48,360 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 2: It's frustrating. In general, I think Scott Adams is maybe

1552
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:56,439
Speaker 2: the single person who handled the social media era the worst.

1553
01:17:56,960 --> 01:17:58,960
Speaker 2: There were signs that this was going to be the case,

1554
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,360
Speaker 2: with him from early on having to filter his ideas

1555
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 2: through editors at comics, syndicates and publishers kept the most

1556
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,080
Speaker 2: problematic stuff out of his work. When he was allowed

1557
01:18:07,080 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 2: to just vomit his thoughts to people, things got really dark,

1558
01:18:09,920 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 2: really fast, and an early sign that this was going

1559
01:18:12,280 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 2: to be the case came in. An early sign that

1560
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 2: this was going to be the case came in two

1561
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 2: thousand and six when he made a blog post about

1562
01:18:19,240 --> 01:18:22,599
Speaker 2: how he didn't vote because he was too ignorant. Right now,

1563
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:24,519
Speaker 2: I don't disagree with Scott there. I don't want him

1564
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:27,479
Speaker 2: voting either, But he immediately seguees off of this into

1565
01:18:27,680 --> 01:18:30,760
Speaker 2: very wild territory, starting with the fact that like he's like,

1566
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:33,040
Speaker 2: you know, I think that the news doesn't provide us

1567
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 2: with enough context to make a decision. So, for example,

1568
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:37,679
Speaker 2: I just learned recently that Iran is twenty five thousand

1569
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:40,519
Speaker 2: Jewish citizens, and everybody's talking about how anti Semitic the

1570
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:42,760
Speaker 2: president of Iran is. But there's all these Jewish people

1571
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:44,639
Speaker 2: living in Iran. So does that mean that the president

1572
01:18:44,720 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 2: is anti Semitic and that I'm going to kill people way?

1573
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:48,720
Speaker 2: Or is he just kind of a bigot? You know,

1574
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 2: the media hasn't provided me with the context that I

1575
01:18:51,160 --> 01:18:53,280
Speaker 2: need here, And for one thing, like you could look

1576
01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,800
Speaker 2: up life for Jewish people in Iran, Like there's Jewish

1577
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:58,760
Speaker 2: people who have like left Iran or who still live

1578
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: there probably who you can like you can find like

1579
01:19:01,040 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 2: their feelings on the matter. You could look this up,

1580
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:06,559
Speaker 2: like there are media, there's newspapers that have written articles

1581
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:09,479
Speaker 2: about this, Scott. The fact that every newspaper that talked

1582
01:19:09,479 --> 01:19:11,479
Speaker 2: about this is during like when everyone was flipping out

1583
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 2: over Mahmoud ahmadina Jod, the former president of Iran because

1584
01:19:14,400 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 2: he made some statements about Israel. The fact that like

1585
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:21,479
Speaker 2: every news article on Amadina Jod didn't like go into

1586
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:25,200
Speaker 2: detail about life for Jewish Iranians doesn't mean that like

1587
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,800
Speaker 2: that context is not provided elsewhere by the media, you

1588
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,839
Speaker 2: chose not to look into it, and for some reason,

1589
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 2: from that very strange statement, we veer into Holocaust denial.

1590
01:19:36,760 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: So here's Scott I gamm it. I'd also like to

1591
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,160
Speaker 1: know how the Holocaust death toll of six million was determined.

1592
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:47,080
Speaker 1: Isn't this sort of number that's so well documented, with

1593
01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:49,840
Speaker 1: actual names and perhaps a Nazi paper trail, that no

1594
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:52,720
Speaker 1: historian could document it doubt its accuracy, give or take

1595
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:54,400
Speaker 1: ten thousand, Or is it like.

1596
01:19:54,439 --> 01:19:57,960
Speaker 2: Every other LRN large round number that someone pulled out

1597
01:19:57,960 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 2: of his ass and it became true by repetition. Does

1598
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,840
Speaker 2: the figure include resistance fighters and civilians who died in

1599
01:20:02,880 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 2: the normal course of war, or just the Jews rounded

1600
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,320
Speaker 2: up and killed systematically. No reasonable person doubts that the

1601
01:20:08,360 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 2: Holocaust happened, But wouldn't you like to know how the

1602
01:20:10,720 --> 01:20:14,280
Speaker 2: exact number was calculated? Just for context? Without that context,

1603
01:20:14,320 --> 01:20:15,800
Speaker 2: I don't know if I should lump the people who

1604
01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 2: think the Holocaust might have been exaggerated for political purposes

1605
01:20:18,880 --> 01:20:21,599
Speaker 2: and with the Holocaust deniers if they are equally nuts,

1606
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 2: then I'd like to know that I want context. You

1607
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:27,400
Speaker 2: know what, Scott you can get context because there's libraries

1608
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 2: full of books people have written calculating the death toll

1609
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,599
Speaker 2: of the Holocaust. All of these questions have been answered

1610
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:37,040
Speaker 2: numerous times by both journalists and historians. You chose not

1611
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 2: to seek that out. It's not a problem that every

1612
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:43,559
Speaker 2: article that talks about mentions the Holocaust and its death

1613
01:20:43,600 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 2: toll doesn't go into detail about how that death toll

1614
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:50,960
Speaker 2: was calculated, because that's not good article writing. You don't

1615
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:54,160
Speaker 2: like it would be like every time I talk about

1616
01:20:54,240 --> 01:20:59,759
Speaker 2: fucking climate change, I discuss like how fucking internal combustion

1617
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:04,479
Speaker 2: in work. Like it's simply not necessary context every single time.

1618
01:21:04,720 --> 01:21:07,920
Speaker 2: But it's super easy to learn about how the Holocaust

1619
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,439
Speaker 2: death toll was calculated. And if you were to just

1620
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:14,080
Speaker 2: have typed into Google in this period of time, how

1621
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:18,280
Speaker 2: was the Holocaust death toll calculated? You would find answers

1622
01:21:18,320 --> 01:21:20,959
Speaker 2: to this question. And if people at home are curious,

1623
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 2: The Holocaust Encyclopedia, operated by the US Holocaust Memorial Museum

1624
01:21:25,320 --> 01:21:27,840
Speaker 2: has a page titled documenting numbers of victims in the

1625
01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,240
Speaker 2: Holocaust and Nazi Persecution, which you and Scott Adams can

1626
01:21:31,280 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 2: peruse at your leisure if you want. This is not

1627
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 2: hard stuff. It's easy to find. You do not have

1628
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:39,120
Speaker 2: to be a historian to learn the basic answers to

1629
01:21:39,120 --> 01:21:40,760
Speaker 2: the questions that Scott is asking here.

1630
01:21:40,960 --> 01:21:43,759
Speaker 1: It's so it brings Yeah, it's so blatant. The holy

1631
01:21:43,960 --> 01:21:46,680
Speaker 1: is like no one's covered this means I didn't have

1632
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:49,280
Speaker 1: the curiosity to go find out. Yeah no, man, you

1633
01:21:49,320 --> 01:21:53,760
Speaker 1: didn't look like, why isn't the media telling me about this?

1634
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: Well they did. You didn't read those articles. There's a

1635
01:21:56,880 --> 01:22:00,360
Speaker 1: lot of articles, so you didn't want to know about it, Like, yeah,

1636
01:22:00,479 --> 01:22:04,880
Speaker 1: I can hand I can hand mine toddler evidence that

1637
01:22:05,000 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 1: if she cleans her room up, she will not trip

1638
01:22:08,160 --> 01:22:11,479
Speaker 1: over her toys. She's not gonna read that. She doesn't

1639
01:22:11,479 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: give a shit, she's gonna keep her toys out.

1640
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:16,240
Speaker 2: It's like if I bought a car that didn't have

1641
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 2: a manual in it and then I drove it and

1642
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,200
Speaker 2: never changed the oil until like the engine broke, and

1643
01:22:21,200 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 2: then I was like they didn't give me the contact,

1644
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 2: Like yeah, man, you like you can look up how

1645
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:29,040
Speaker 2: do I maintain a car? What does this light on

1646
01:22:29,080 --> 01:22:32,800
Speaker 2: my dashboard mean? What are these noises from my car mean?

1647
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 2: It's not hard to get that answer, Like it is

1648
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 2: not the fault of the fucking car manufacture that you

1649
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:44,479
Speaker 2: chose to act like a helpless babe. This is all

1650
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,760
Speaker 2: a really perfect example of the kind of dumb that

1651
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,559
Speaker 2: Scott gives us. He thinks that like saying this, that

1652
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:51,640
Speaker 2: being like, well, I just want context, what about this?

1653
01:22:51,680 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 1: What about what I'm saying it didn't happen? Yeah, dot dot.

1654
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like he thinks that this makes him look nice,

1655
01:23:00,160 --> 01:23:02,200
Speaker 2: just deep and wise, but like kind of the cynical

1656
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 2: prankster wise man, like the Avatar and his books, Like

1657
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:08,960
Speaker 2: you just accepted that number without thinking. Maybe now you'll

1658
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 2: think more about the things you accept without thinking. No,

1659
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,960
Speaker 2: you should actually like try to learn the answers to

1660
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:17,360
Speaker 2: the questions that you're asking, because they're very readily available.

1661
01:23:17,520 --> 01:23:23,160
Speaker 2: Scott Adams, it's like very frustrating.

1662
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: It's like.

1663
01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 2: I think his attitude is that like when we talk about,

1664
01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 2: for example, Holocaust and I as shooting up synagogues and

1665
01:23:31,120 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 2: murdering Jewish people, every article about that should include a

1666
01:23:34,320 --> 01:23:37,840
Speaker 2: digression about like the estimated kill rate during acton Reinhard

1667
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 2: and how it compares to the rate of killing in Rwanda.

1668
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:42,960
Speaker 2: Like that's literally what I think he's saying, which is

1669
01:23:43,080 --> 01:23:46,679
Speaker 2: nuts and stupid, and he should feel bad, and also

1670
01:23:47,040 --> 01:23:51,120
Speaker 2: somebody should throw p at him anyway for the sake

1671
01:23:51,160 --> 01:23:53,559
Speaker 2: of fairness. I should note that at this point Scott's

1672
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 2: ill considered political rants are not always entirely on the

1673
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:00,599
Speaker 2: wrong side, although there's always an element of wrong to them.

1674
01:24:00,960 --> 01:24:02,600
Speaker 2: And May of two thousand and eight, he wrote a

1675
01:24:02,640 --> 01:24:05,320
Speaker 2: blog post making fun of people who complained about illegal

1676
01:24:05,360 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 2: immigrants and that's a noble cause. There are some cringe

1677
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:13,200
Speaker 2: worthy lines in the post, like Mexicans have great looking

1678
01:24:13,240 --> 01:24:15,720
Speaker 2: skin that resists sunburn. I have skin that looks like

1679
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:21,680
Speaker 2: tappyokas spilled on canvassing skin. Mexic people, what the fuck, Scott, Well,

1680
01:24:21,720 --> 01:24:25,599
Speaker 2: you don't need to get into that. Scott continued posting, though,

1681
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:29,000
Speaker 2: and he eventually started to draw criticism when other people

1682
01:24:29,120 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 2: realized that the unfiltered Dilbert guy was a dick. This

1683
01:24:33,040 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 2: happened first in a big way when he made this

1684
01:24:34,800 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 2: twenty eleven post complaining about the unfair treatment of women.

1685
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,480
Speaker 2: The reality is that women are treated differently by society

1686
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:44,799
Speaker 2: for exactly the same reason that children and the mentally

1687
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:48,879
Speaker 2: handicapped are treated differently. It's just easier this way for everyone.

1688
01:24:49,200 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 2: You don't argue with a four year old about why

1689
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 2: you shouldn't eat candy for dinner. You don't punch a

1690
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 2: mentally handicapped guy, even if he punches you first. And

1691
01:24:56,120 --> 01:24:58,160
Speaker 2: you don't argue when a woman tells you she's only

1692
01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 2: making eighty cents to your dollar. It's the path of

1693
01:25:00,640 --> 01:25:03,639
Speaker 2: least resistance. You save your energy for more important battles.

1694
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:08,960
Speaker 2: So Scott posts this stupid thing because he's a dumb asshole,

1695
01:25:09,720 --> 01:25:12,040
Speaker 2: and he gets made fun of on a blog called feminist,

1696
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:15,839
Speaker 2: and so he jumps he again. He can't handle people

1697
01:25:15,960 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 2: not agreeing with him or not thinking he's smart, so

1698
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 2: he leaps into the comments section to defend himself and

1699
01:25:22,400 --> 01:25:26,599
Speaker 2: argue against everybody, and immediately, because he's not good at arguing,

1700
01:25:26,840 --> 01:25:29,360
Speaker 2: he just kind of gives that up and starts insulting

1701
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 2: people for their poor reading comprehension. He also suggests that

1702
01:25:33,320 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 2: they all secretly agree with him and know he's right,

1703
01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 2: and are just arguing with him for the sake of

1704
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 2: their own egos. Then he makes a blog post a

1705
01:25:40,040 --> 01:25:42,400
Speaker 2: few days later reiterating all the points that had made

1706
01:25:42,400 --> 01:25:46,439
Speaker 2: everyone mad, but insisting that everyone had just gotten him

1707
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:50,040
Speaker 2: wrong and that like Dilbert readers are smart enough, you know,

1708
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:52,800
Speaker 2: but other people didn't get it. I'm actually going to

1709
01:25:52,920 --> 01:25:55,680
Speaker 2: read a quote from EW dot com here, like summarizing

1710
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,960
Speaker 2: the fallout. Adams insisted that his post was some sort

1711
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 2: of forensic ex size that his loyal readers he presents

1712
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:06,000
Speaker 2: them as sort of uber rational Dilbert Nation, understand, but

1713
01:26:06,080 --> 01:26:09,160
Speaker 2: he did eventually offer an apology. The best of my knowledge,

1714
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:11,840
Speaker 2: no one who understood the original post or its context

1715
01:26:11,880 --> 01:26:13,720
Speaker 2: was offended by it. But to the women who were

1716
01:26:13,720 --> 01:26:16,320
Speaker 2: offended by their own or someone else's interpretation of what

1717
01:26:16,360 --> 01:26:18,680
Speaker 2: I wrote, I apologize.

1718
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:25,240
Speaker 1: You week by your own interpretation. What. Yeah, it was

1719
01:26:25,280 --> 01:26:27,680
Speaker 1: all just a game for me, the puppet master. But

1720
01:26:27,720 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry if it hurt you. Like Scott, just if

1721
01:26:31,920 --> 01:26:34,600
Speaker 1: you want to be if you want to believe shitty things,

1722
01:26:34,680 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: just like say them on your massive platform and ignore

1723
01:26:38,240 --> 01:26:42,280
Speaker 1: the people who argue with you. Yeah, don't be a

1724
01:26:42,320 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 1: little baby about this, like he's such a whimp public

1725
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: counts to defend himself or that.

1726
01:26:49,320 --> 01:26:52,320
Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's where we're heading to. So the attention

1727
01:26:52,520 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 2: or because this kind of goes viral, more and more

1728
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,240
Speaker 2: people start to watch his blog posts because and then

1729
01:26:58,240 --> 01:27:00,400
Speaker 2: they start to realize, like, wow, he says dumb all

1730
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:04,759
Speaker 2: the time, Like he's constantly saying bullshit without knowing anything

1731
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 2: about the shit he's talking about. So in the mid

1732
01:27:07,439 --> 01:27:09,799
Speaker 2: adds it kind of comes sport in a couple places

1733
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 2: online to make fun of bad Scott Adams posts, and

1734
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,320
Speaker 2: Scott can't handle it, so he starts to make fake

1735
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:20,240
Speaker 2: accounts on MetaFilter and Reddit under the pseudonym Planned Chaos,

1736
01:27:20,600 --> 01:27:23,360
Speaker 2: where he again he's doing this puppet master thing and

1737
01:27:23,400 --> 01:27:27,759
Speaker 2: he pretends to be someone else defending himself because apparently

1738
01:27:27,840 --> 01:27:31,439
Speaker 2: his rational superfans aren't like good enough to actually do

1739
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,719
Speaker 2: the job for him. Here's an example of a Planned

1740
01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:38,600
Speaker 2: Chaos post. If an idiot and a genius disagree, the

1741
01:27:38,760 --> 01:27:41,960
Speaker 2: idiot generally thinks the genius is wrong. He also has

1742
01:27:42,040 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 2: lots of idiot reasons to back his idiot belief. That's

1743
01:27:45,080 --> 01:27:47,680
Speaker 2: how the idiot mind is wired. It's fair to say

1744
01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:49,720
Speaker 2: you disagree with Adams, but you can't rule out the

1745
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,719
Speaker 2: hypothesis that you're too dumb to understand what he's saying.

1746
01:27:53,080 --> 01:27:58,559
Speaker 2: And he's a certified genius, just saying, first of all,

1747
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 2: argument to authority. If you want to be like a

1748
01:28:00,960 --> 01:28:03,679
Speaker 2: big fucking rules, D and D for real life guy,

1749
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:06,919
Speaker 2: Like that's the argument to authority. You're not actually defending yourself,

1750
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,120
Speaker 2: Like that's evidence that you've kind of like that whatever

1751
01:28:10,280 --> 01:28:13,080
Speaker 2: argument you're you're you're making is completely hollow because you

1752
01:28:13,120 --> 01:28:14,760
Speaker 2: have to rely on like, well, he's a genius, so

1753
01:28:14,800 --> 01:28:17,680
Speaker 2: you just don't understand him. But also that's just like

1754
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:23,360
Speaker 2: such a sniffly little wiss thing to do, like say

1755
01:28:23,400 --> 01:28:25,280
Speaker 2: it under your own name, you fucking coward.

1756
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's what Bobby Like, well, let's not to

1757
01:28:28,280 --> 01:28:30,519
Speaker 1: the biggest thing that Bob Scott adams. But it's like,

1758
01:28:32,160 --> 01:28:34,799
Speaker 1: I have never understood making a sock of an account

1759
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 1: to defend yourself. It's sad, it's sad, it's weak anyway. Whatever.

1760
01:28:40,760 --> 01:28:44,680
Speaker 2: Once Trump began his campaign for president, Scott's behavior accelerated.

1761
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:47,479
Speaker 2: He predicted a Trump primary win fair enough, gets that

1762
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:50,160
Speaker 2: one right, and then he takes back his endorsement of

1763
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 2: Trump though after the Access Hollywood take tape, and he

1764
01:28:53,240 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 2: endorses Gary Johnson, which he'll later come to like regret

1765
01:28:56,640 --> 01:28:58,600
Speaker 2: and try to explain away, but it is it is

1766
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 2: very funny. Once Trump wins, he publishes a book called

1767
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,160
Speaker 2: Win Bigley in which he argues that he and Trump

1768
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 2: are both master persuaders, and Trump was ushering humanity into

1769
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 2: a bold new world with his master persuader techniques. He

1770
01:29:13,560 --> 01:29:17,200
Speaker 2: becomes increasingly partisan during the Trump years, but also increasingly

1771
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:21,200
Speaker 2: silly and deeply irresponsible, would be fair to say. In

1772
01:29:21,200 --> 01:29:25,360
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, you guys remember the Gilroy Garlick Festival mass

1773
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:28,679
Speaker 2: shooting that was carried out by that kind of fascist guy. Yeah,

1774
01:29:29,120 --> 01:29:32,799
Speaker 2: real fucked up. Scott uses the tragedy as an excuse

1775
01:29:32,840 --> 01:29:35,479
Speaker 2: to publish a video app he's made called win Hub,

1776
01:29:35,800 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 2: which he's created as like a news gathering tool, and

1777
01:29:38,920 --> 01:29:42,439
Speaker 2: he's like, while like the shooting is going on, he's

1778
01:29:42,479 --> 01:29:45,320
Speaker 2: telling people to use this to report on what's happening.

1779
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:48,680
Speaker 2: If they're like, it's pretty fucked up. Like there's a

1780
01:29:48,680 --> 01:29:50,720
Speaker 2: lot of debate in our culture about like what it

1781
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:52,800
Speaker 2: is and isn't appropriate to do in the wake of

1782
01:29:52,840 --> 01:29:54,639
Speaker 2: a mass shooting, but I think we can all agree

1783
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,200
Speaker 2: trying to plug your app is not appropriate.

1784
01:29:57,880 --> 01:30:02,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a bit off sides. Yeah, Yeah, that's just bad.

1785
01:30:02,160 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: That's just real fucked up. Scott.

1786
01:30:04,960 --> 01:30:07,599
Speaker 2: A write up in MSN notes Adams didn't make major

1787
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:10,040
Speaker 2: waves with a February twenty twenty one comic that poked

1788
01:30:10,040 --> 01:30:12,400
Speaker 2: fun at those who received a coronavirus vaccine, but he

1789
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:15,120
Speaker 2: did rouffle feathers when he espoused debunked claims that people

1790
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 2: who weren't vaccinated fared better than those who were in

1791
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 2: a video shared by the Just Think podcast. In the

1792
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:23,720
Speaker 2: twenty twenties, his political statements also started to focus more

1793
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 2: on race. At the beginning of twenty twenty two, he

1794
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:28,320
Speaker 2: tweeted that he was going to self identify as a

1795
01:30:28,360 --> 01:30:31,800
Speaker 2: black woman until Biden picks his Supreme Court nominee, which

1796
01:30:31,840 --> 01:30:34,120
Speaker 2: the President had vowed would be a black woman, and

1797
01:30:34,160 --> 01:30:36,320
Speaker 2: then in June of twenty twenty, Adams tweeted that when

1798
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 2: the Dilbert TV show ended in two thousand after just

1799
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 2: two seasons, it was the third job I lost for

1800
01:30:41,280 --> 01:30:46,439
Speaker 2: being white. So Scott's madness crescendos after the twenty twenty

1801
01:30:46,439 --> 01:30:50,080
Speaker 2: two Highland Park mass shooting. This, like so many mass shootings,

1802
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,720
Speaker 2: was carried out by a very young man twenty one

1803
01:30:52,760 --> 01:30:56,040
Speaker 2: years old. Rather than seeing this as perhaps a reason

1804
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:59,040
Speaker 2: to explore more restrictive laws as to win firearms could

1805
01:30:59,080 --> 01:31:01,280
Speaker 2: be purchased, or perhaps apps as a sign of deeply

1806
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,360
Speaker 2: toxic aspects of our culture and the things that young

1807
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:07,479
Speaker 2: men in it are raised to believe. Scott posted one

1808
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 2: of the craziest things I've ever seen on Twitter, which

1809
01:31:10,000 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 2: is an app fueled entirely my mental breakdowns. Here's Scott again,

1810
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 2: in the wake of a mass shooting. The Highland shooting

1811
01:31:18,200 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 2: and every fit in the overdose death among the young

1812
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,560
Speaker 2: are teaching us the same lesson, and we refuse to

1813
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:24,960
Speaker 2: learn it. It's difficult, but I'm qualified to give you

1814
01:31:25,000 --> 01:31:28,280
Speaker 2: this lesson. Unfortunately, dam this won't be easy to read.

1815
01:31:28,439 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 2: When a young male, let's say fourteen to nineteen, is

1816
01:31:31,160 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 2: a danger to himself and others, society gives the supporting

1817
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,599
Speaker 2: family to options. Number one, watch people die and number

1818
01:31:37,640 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 2: two kill your own son. Those are your only options.

1819
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:44,280
Speaker 2: I chose one and watched my step son die. I

1820
01:31:44,400 --> 01:31:46,760
Speaker 2: was relieved he took no one else with him. If

1821
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:48,559
Speaker 2: you think there is a third choice in which your

1822
01:31:48,560 --> 01:31:51,439
Speaker 2: wisdom and tough love, along with government services, fixes that

1823
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,240
Speaker 2: broken young man, you are living in a delusion. There

1824
01:31:54,240 --> 01:31:56,360
Speaker 2: are no other options. You have to either murder your

1825
01:31:56,360 --> 01:31:58,840
Speaker 2: own son or watch him die and maybe kill others.

1826
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:02,560
Speaker 2: There is a sad reaction behind this, so like, I

1827
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,880
Speaker 2: that's like fucked up. That's real bad. First off, not true.

1828
01:32:06,880 --> 01:32:09,800
Speaker 2: I mean, among other things, I did an interview when

1829
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 2: I was still working with Cracked at a young man

1830
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,000
Speaker 2: who attempted to carry out a mass shooting at his school.

1831
01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 2: This was back in the late nineties, and got caught

1832
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 2: and stopped, thankfully before he was able to shoot anybody,

1833
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,400
Speaker 2: but he had the guns, he was about to start.

1834
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:27,120
Speaker 2: He was penalized obviously, like he was sent to I

1835
01:32:27,120 --> 01:32:30,000
Speaker 2: think a mental institution for a while. But like he's

1836
01:32:30,040 --> 01:32:32,559
Speaker 2: like it's been decades, he's like a normal person. He's

1837
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:36,559
Speaker 2: got a life now, he's like hasn't killed anyone. Like

1838
01:32:36,960 --> 01:32:40,680
Speaker 2: you can, in fact intervene in people who are like

1839
01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:45,320
Speaker 2: going in dark directions and they can be saved. It

1840
01:32:45,360 --> 01:32:48,240
Speaker 2: happens all the time. Part of why it doesn't get

1841
01:32:48,280 --> 01:32:50,839
Speaker 2: more attention is that a guy shooting up a school

1842
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 2: obviously is a thing that people are going to pay

1843
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 2: attention to all the times every single day in which

1844
01:32:57,640 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 2: a mentor comes across a kid who's starting to have

1845
01:33:00,160 --> 01:33:03,599
Speaker 2: under a dark path and like reaches that convinces that person.

1846
01:33:03,720 --> 01:33:06,640
Speaker 2: You know, every time that a parent like sees that

1847
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:11,080
Speaker 2: their child is starting to like embrace toxic aspects of

1848
01:33:11,160 --> 01:33:13,920
Speaker 2: like belief and behavior, and it starts to talk to

1849
01:33:13,960 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 2: them and you know, starts to work with them and

1850
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:19,759
Speaker 2: tries to understand and counsel them. Every time, like people

1851
01:33:19,800 --> 01:33:22,280
Speaker 2: get pulled back from that brink. It doesn't like you

1852
01:33:22,280 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 2: don't get a news story about that, right, like obviously, like,

1853
01:33:25,479 --> 01:33:29,599
Speaker 2: but that doesn't mean it's not happening. It's it's kind

1854
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,759
Speaker 2: of fucked up to say that. Like, once people start

1855
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,760
Speaker 2: to show that they have that they're fetishizing violence, they

1856
01:33:35,960 --> 01:33:39,000
Speaker 2: that you know, they're embracing like racist or problematic beliefs,

1857
01:33:39,080 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 2: or that they're you know, starting to get addicted to drugs,

1858
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:44,479
Speaker 2: that there's no way to save them. Like if you've

1859
01:33:44,520 --> 01:33:46,920
Speaker 2: lived a life, you know people who have been pulled

1860
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:49,599
Speaker 2: away from all sorts of fucked up things or who

1861
01:33:49,640 --> 01:33:52,320
Speaker 2: have like gone too far down a dark road and

1862
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 2: pulled themselves back. It happens all the time. Not that

1863
01:33:56,320 --> 01:33:59,559
Speaker 2: it's like easy or simple. These are terrible things to

1864
01:33:59,600 --> 01:34:01,920
Speaker 2: deal with as a kid, having a child who like

1865
01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 2: you think, might shoot up a school. That's a terrifying

1866
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 2: position to be in as a as a But like

1867
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:11,719
Speaker 2: people get pulled away from that kind of stuff. Now

1868
01:34:11,800 --> 01:34:15,280
Speaker 2: there is a sad his stepson that is a well,

1869
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:18,040
Speaker 2: that's what we're about to talk about. Oh no, it's

1870
01:34:18,080 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 2: a pretty sad story. Scott's step son was involved in

1871
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:25,519
Speaker 2: a serious bicycle accident at age fourteen. He suffered severe

1872
01:34:25,520 --> 01:34:28,439
Speaker 2: brain damage, which caused him to lose all impulse control,

1873
01:34:28,720 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 2: and he became terribly addicted to drugs and eventually died

1874
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:35,800
Speaker 2: of a fentanyl overdose in twenty eighteen. This is a

1875
01:34:35,840 --> 01:34:39,360
Speaker 2: horrible story. There's a video in twenty eighteen when Scott

1876
01:34:39,400 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 2: gets the news where he's just like weeping to his audience,

1877
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:43,759
Speaker 2: and I have no doubt that it's genuine.

1878
01:34:44,240 --> 01:34:47,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it's yeah, yeah. I don't want

1879
01:34:48,000 --> 01:34:51,559
Speaker 1: to brag on him for losing yeah, a child.

1880
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:55,040
Speaker 2: No I don't either, But like number one, I think

1881
01:34:55,040 --> 01:34:57,280
Speaker 2: at twenty eighteen, video doesn't look to me like a

1882
01:34:57,280 --> 01:34:59,200
Speaker 2: man who like gave up on a child. That looks

1883
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,640
Speaker 2: to me like a man who's sad because what he

1884
01:35:01,800 --> 01:35:04,640
Speaker 2: was doing didn't work. And I think it's very depressing that,

1885
01:35:04,720 --> 01:35:06,400
Speaker 2: like the lesson he took out of this is that, like,

1886
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:09,600
Speaker 2: you can't save people when they start to have problems.

1887
01:35:09,960 --> 01:35:14,799
Speaker 2: Obviously everyone can't be saved. Clearly, Scott's steps On, whatever

1888
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,280
Speaker 2: was going on, like was not something he was able

1889
01:35:17,280 --> 01:35:19,320
Speaker 2: to pull out of. And that's a tragedy. I know

1890
01:35:19,439 --> 01:35:22,800
Speaker 2: multiple people who had serious addictions to like things like

1891
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:26,680
Speaker 2: things that were going to kill them and stopped. You know,

1892
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:30,240
Speaker 2: I have friends who like I have a friend who

1893
01:35:30,320 --> 01:35:36,400
Speaker 2: survived shooting himself. Like, people come through terrible things and

1894
01:35:36,640 --> 01:35:39,320
Speaker 2: build lives afterwards. And the attitude that like, when a

1895
01:35:39,320 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 2: young man is troubled, all you can do is let

1896
01:35:41,720 --> 01:35:46,479
Speaker 2: them die or murder them is so that's the such

1897
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:48,760
Speaker 2: a bad thing to take out of this experience.

1898
01:35:50,560 --> 01:35:52,080
Speaker 1: That sounds sociopathic.

1899
01:35:52,760 --> 01:35:55,160
Speaker 2: It is, and it's also it's probably one of the

1900
01:35:55,160 --> 01:35:57,200
Speaker 2: things that's really problematic to me about this is that,

1901
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:59,960
Speaker 2: like he is, he is bringing his step son's death

1902
01:36:00,320 --> 01:36:02,640
Speaker 2: in the context of a man who went on a

1903
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:05,920
Speaker 2: mass shooting and murdered people. His steps on just had

1904
01:36:05,960 --> 01:36:10,000
Speaker 2: a drug addiction. Having a drug addiction and dying as

1905
01:36:10,040 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 2: a result of it is not in the same moral

1906
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:16,920
Speaker 2: universe as shooting strangers to death with a fucking rifle. No, Like,

1907
01:36:17,280 --> 01:36:19,560
Speaker 2: comparing those two things is insane.

1908
01:36:19,880 --> 01:36:23,280
Speaker 1: Well, it's I think it's the whole mentality of Oh,

1909
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:25,919
Speaker 1: addiction is a moral failing, not a disease.

1910
01:36:26,200 --> 01:36:29,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's like number one, especially in this case,

1911
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:32,040
Speaker 2: like this is a kid who's got like brain damage

1912
01:36:32,240 --> 01:36:35,600
Speaker 2: and he has no impulse control, which is sad and

1913
01:36:35,760 --> 01:36:38,400
Speaker 2: hard to deal with, But like it's not the same

1914
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:41,639
Speaker 2: as deciding to murder people. You shouldn't be talking about

1915
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:46,920
Speaker 2: these things together. They're not even in the same realm. No, Like, ah,

1916
01:36:47,320 --> 01:36:52,320
Speaker 2: it's it's one of those things, Scott. So obviously the

1917
01:36:52,360 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 2: culmination of this where we are now is that earlier

1918
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:57,839
Speaker 2: this year, Scott made a number of super racist comments

1919
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:01,040
Speaker 2: about black people and about how like white people just

1920
01:37:01,160 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 2: need to stop talking to and stop being you know,

1921
01:37:03,920 --> 01:37:06,800
Speaker 2: associated with black people, stop living with black people. We

1922
01:37:06,960 --> 01:37:09,519
Speaker 2: just have to separate. Like it's pretty fucked up shit,

1923
01:37:10,080 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 2: and like everyone gets saying this is like the straw

1924
01:37:12,360 --> 01:37:14,720
Speaker 2: that finally breaks the camel's back. He says something that

1925
01:37:14,840 --> 01:37:18,200
Speaker 2: like the normies take note of, and it leads to

1926
01:37:18,280 --> 01:37:20,960
Speaker 2: the collapse of his cartooning career. In like the space

1927
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 2: of a week. He gets dropped by shitloads of newspapers.

1928
01:37:24,080 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 2: His syndicate, his publisher drop him, everybody drops him, and

1929
01:37:28,320 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 2: Scott again tries to do kind of the I was

1930
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:33,519
Speaker 2: really trying to make this very intelligent point, and all

1931
01:37:33,560 --> 01:37:35,960
Speaker 2: the really smart people got what I was trying to

1932
01:37:36,000 --> 01:37:40,280
Speaker 2: say in context, but the dumb people got angry. My argument,

1933
01:37:40,360 --> 01:37:43,040
Speaker 2: Scott is that a writer who repeatedly fails to get

1934
01:37:43,040 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 2: his point across to his audience is bad at writing.

1935
01:37:47,520 --> 01:37:52,320
Speaker 1: Anyway. Yeah, It's one thing I remember from all that,

1936
01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: because I do have people contact me and like ask

1937
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:58,080
Speaker 1: if I wanted you quotes. I was like, not really,

1938
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:00,960
Speaker 1: like contact cartoons, the color that's what you should be

1939
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:03,280
Speaker 1: talking to you, not me. But like one thing I

1940
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:08,040
Speaker 1: will always remember about it was feeling like I saw

1941
01:38:08,080 --> 01:38:12,840
Speaker 1: people like, you know, applauding the syndicate Andrew's universe. Yeah,

1942
01:38:13,040 --> 01:38:18,320
Speaker 1: and uh Andrew real universal and I'm like, yeah, they

1943
01:38:18,360 --> 01:38:21,320
Speaker 1: did it, but like they it took this. Yeah, this

1944
01:38:21,479 --> 01:38:23,880
Speaker 1: was like there were you dog whistles before this, Like

1945
01:38:23,920 --> 01:38:26,320
Speaker 1: there was there are countless points where they could have

1946
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,479
Speaker 1: stoop and said, nah, that's too far dude. Yeah, but

1947
01:38:29,600 --> 01:38:32,960
Speaker 1: like it literally got to a point where newspapers had

1948
01:38:32,960 --> 01:38:37,400
Speaker 1: to say, oh, you're gonna lose this this spot and

1949
01:38:37,439 --> 01:38:39,960
Speaker 1: it finally hurts and now they're like, oh, well we're

1950
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:41,720
Speaker 1: not gonna stand But no, you're not gonna stand out

1951
01:38:41,760 --> 01:38:44,040
Speaker 1: of the fact that you're losing money if you had

1952
01:38:44,080 --> 01:38:47,400
Speaker 1: the morality. And again I should point out I'm saying

1953
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:50,600
Speaker 1: this is myself, not on behalf of King Features or

1954
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:54,240
Speaker 1: Herst Media, my my syndicate does my first opinion. If

1955
01:38:54,240 --> 01:38:57,960
Speaker 1: you really had any morality, he would have been dropped

1956
01:38:58,000 --> 01:39:03,360
Speaker 1: a long time ago. Yeah, like this, like the bigotry

1957
01:39:03,960 --> 01:39:09,439
Speaker 1: has been there in display for a while and now

1958
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:12,320
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, now you have the morality because you're

1959
01:39:12,320 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 1: losing newspapers.

1960
01:39:14,680 --> 01:39:21,160
Speaker 2: No, now, I will say, I am now. Yeah, Yeah,

1961
01:39:21,200 --> 01:39:23,479
Speaker 2: he's got his comic online. You can still read Dilbert

1962
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:25,479
Speaker 2: if you want to. For some reason, it is now

1963
01:39:25,640 --> 01:39:31,200
Speaker 2: entirely focused on like weird, cancel culture, grievance shit. But yeah,

1964
01:39:31,240 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 2: if you want that in your life, it's still available somewhere,

1965
01:39:35,400 --> 01:39:37,320
Speaker 2: and it's it's one of those things. You know, you

1966
01:39:37,320 --> 01:39:39,400
Speaker 2: you are not speaking on behalf of anyone else. I

1967
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:44,000
Speaker 2: am speaking on behalf of a of my corporation. I

1968
01:39:44,040 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 2: am speaking on behalf of both Cools and Media, and iHeartRadio.

1969
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:51,559
Speaker 2: When I assure everyone Scott Adams lives inside of a

1970
01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:55,760
Speaker 2: mansion shaped like Dilbert's head with a swimming pool out back,

1971
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,479
Speaker 2: also shaped like Dilbert's head, where he spends all of

1972
01:39:58,520 --> 01:40:01,320
Speaker 2: his recreational time. Right now, Scott is sitting in a

1973
01:40:01,320 --> 01:40:04,559
Speaker 2: swimming pool shaped like Gilbert's head, angry that people on

1974
01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:07,479
Speaker 2: the internet are making fun of him. And if you

1975
01:40:07,520 --> 01:40:09,720
Speaker 2: want to let Scott know that, let him know that

1976
01:40:09,760 --> 01:40:11,960
Speaker 2: you know that he lives in a house shaped like

1977
01:40:12,000 --> 01:40:14,960
Speaker 2: the hell head of Dilbert. I think he'd appreciate that.

1978
01:40:15,160 --> 01:40:17,760
Speaker 2: Maybe it'll save him.

1979
01:40:17,920 --> 01:40:20,759
Speaker 1: I also remember, didn he he finally introduced a black

1980
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:23,960
Speaker 1: character in his comic in the last year or so. Yeah,

1981
01:40:23,960 --> 01:40:27,040
Speaker 1: the first trip was literally using the black character to

1982
01:40:27,160 --> 01:40:28,360
Speaker 1: shit on trans people.

1983
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very very Scott Adams. Everything he does is

1984
01:40:32,520 --> 01:40:33,080
Speaker 2: very Scott as.

1985
01:40:33,280 --> 01:40:36,479
Speaker 1: It's just it's like that one shitty kid you went

1986
01:40:36,520 --> 01:40:39,720
Speaker 1: to school with, who this is the only attention he

1987
01:40:39,720 --> 01:40:43,000
Speaker 1: can get and he's so proud of it. And when

1988
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 1: people hate I won No, you're just pathetic. Yeah, you

1989
01:40:47,280 --> 01:40:50,120
Speaker 1: just kind of kind of sad, bro. And he could

1990
01:40:50,160 --> 01:40:52,080
Speaker 1: literally say, you know what, I'm not talking to anybody.

1991
01:40:52,120 --> 01:40:54,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit joy my money for the rest of

1992
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:57,720
Speaker 1: my life. Vallid go for it, and we'd all we

1993
01:40:57,880 --> 01:41:01,559
Speaker 1: have here again. There's not a single human being on

1994
01:41:01,600 --> 01:41:03,759
Speaker 1: the face of the earth who has a bad opinion

1995
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:07,599
Speaker 1: of Bill Watterson. No, I mean the probably sending him

1996
01:41:07,680 --> 01:41:08,599
Speaker 1: used to deal with him.

1997
01:41:08,479 --> 01:41:10,639
Speaker 2: Probably the syndicate because he cost him a lot of money.

1998
01:41:10,680 --> 01:41:13,960
Speaker 2: But like fucking a you know, he was like, I

1999
01:41:14,479 --> 01:41:16,479
Speaker 2: made this for ten years. I feel like if I

2000
01:41:16,560 --> 01:41:19,200
Speaker 2: keep making it, the quality will drop. I'm going to

2001
01:41:19,240 --> 01:41:22,360
Speaker 2: go paint landscapes somewhere in the rural Midwest for the

2002
01:41:22,360 --> 01:41:23,360
Speaker 2: rest of my life.

2003
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 1: And Jim Davis again, like you may out like Garfield, Yeah,

2004
01:41:28,040 --> 01:41:30,840
Speaker 1: you may think it's a shallow tompic whatever, but every

2005
01:41:31,000 --> 01:41:34,280
Speaker 1: cartoonist or every person, yeah they were do. He's a sweetheart.

2006
01:41:34,360 --> 01:41:38,000
Speaker 1: He is very supportive. He is a nice man. He

2007
01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 1: has never leapt into a fucking culture controversy. He knows

2008
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:44,200
Speaker 1: that's not what we need from the Garfield man.

2009
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,160
Speaker 2: I don't need to know the Garfield guy's opinion on

2010
01:41:47,200 --> 01:41:48,600
Speaker 2: any of this stuff, Like was.

2011
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:51,080
Speaker 1: It that comic Garfield minus Garfield when it came up,

2012
01:41:51,120 --> 01:41:53,639
Speaker 1: he could easily squash that. Instead he's like, no, that's

2013
01:41:53,640 --> 01:41:54,240
Speaker 1: a great idea.

2014
01:41:54,360 --> 01:41:57,600
Speaker 2: Keeps funny, Yeah, keep doing it, like it's one of

2015
01:41:57,640 --> 01:42:01,120
Speaker 2: those Like Jim Davis has never gonna like come in

2016
01:42:01,200 --> 01:42:03,839
Speaker 2: and be like, here's what everyone needs to know about

2017
01:42:03,920 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 2: like race mixing from Jim Davis, like we're fuck, he's

2018
01:42:07,439 --> 01:42:10,320
Speaker 2: never gonna give you that and think like that's again

2019
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:11,800
Speaker 2: earned his money.

2020
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:14,040
Speaker 1: Good for you, Jim Davis. And you know what, Scott,

2021
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:16,240
Speaker 1: just for some evidence of what you could be. Like

2022
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,240
Speaker 1: Jim Davis lives in a house shaped like Garfield's head

2023
01:42:19,280 --> 01:42:21,280
Speaker 1: and we don't make fun of him for it because

2024
01:42:21,280 --> 01:42:25,080
Speaker 1: we respect Jim Davis. You do you, Jim Davis, just

2025
01:42:25,240 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 1: keep on hating Mondays and tell us how and we're

2026
01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:34,280
Speaker 1: abuse of Odie and John creeping on the vet. That's

2027
01:42:34,400 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 1: sure you've made it. You've made it. Yeah, although give

2028
01:42:38,160 --> 01:42:41,360
Speaker 1: us a better explanation for having a fucking lineman, Davis.

2029
01:42:41,120 --> 01:42:45,519
Speaker 2: Don't, Yeah, have an alignement Davis. Yeah, that's some real

2030
01:42:45,600 --> 01:42:48,519
Speaker 2: deep Garfield lore for those of you who are real

2031
01:42:48,600 --> 01:42:53,479
Speaker 2: Garfield heads anyway, there's actually like a shocking amount of

2032
01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,880
Speaker 2: very deep and unsettling online Garfield lore. People should seek

2033
01:42:56,880 --> 01:42:57,160
Speaker 2: it out.

2034
01:42:57,280 --> 01:42:59,760
Speaker 1: There is really terrible to seek it out on a.

2035
01:42:59,760 --> 01:43:02,280
Speaker 2: Dark night when you're alone in your house and and

2036
01:43:02,840 --> 01:43:05,400
Speaker 2: really delve into the Garfield hole. But you know what

2037
01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:07,360
Speaker 2: other hole people should delve into.

2038
01:43:08,120 --> 01:43:11,680
Speaker 1: These ads and services. No, no, no, you're you're you're

2039
01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,679
Speaker 1: oh yes, my holes, my deep holes. Yeah yeah, yeah,

2040
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:19,920
Speaker 1: uh well, if you want to find me online, my

2041
01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:23,040
Speaker 1: my commic online comics something positive has been going around

2042
01:43:23,080 --> 01:43:27,600
Speaker 1: for twenty one years. It is at something positive dot net.

2043
01:43:27,760 --> 01:43:31,479
Speaker 1: Or if you want to read a new Popeye strip

2044
01:43:31,880 --> 01:43:36,280
Speaker 1: every Sunday that makes apparently certain uncles on Facebook mad

2045
01:43:37,400 --> 01:43:41,040
Speaker 1: go to comics Kingdom dot com slash Popeye every Sunday,

2046
01:43:41,720 --> 01:43:44,080
Speaker 1: and thank you guys for having me. This has been

2047
01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 1: I mean, has it been say fun? It could have

2048
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:53,680
Speaker 1: been working. It could have been a John K episode,

2049
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:58,000
Speaker 1: It could have been dunk. Yeah, we'll get to well

2050
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:02,960
Speaker 1: califernakus or ever it's pronounced one of John awful human

2051
01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:05,439
Speaker 1: being who Yeah, I don't know.

2052
01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:10,400
Speaker 2: Also a lot of a lot of great animator bastards

2053
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:10,840
Speaker 2: out there.

2054
01:44:10,920 --> 01:44:14,439
Speaker 1: But again, I work in a field where like, yeah,

2055
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:18,479
Speaker 1: we're left alone in dark rooms for hours on end.

2056
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:20,720
Speaker 1: It's gonna go one of two days.

2057
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a lot of people don't know this, but

2058
01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:27,120
Speaker 2: Gahan Wilson helped build the Hiroshima bomb. Look it up, people,

2059
01:44:27,320 --> 01:44:30,120
Speaker 2: look it up. It's it's out there. Find the evidence

2060
01:44:30,400 --> 01:44:30,799
Speaker 2: I wanted.

2061
01:44:30,840 --> 01:44:32,800
Speaker 1: I almost made a joke about one of my predecessors

2062
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:34,400
Speaker 1: on pop Eye, but I'm pretty sure would get have

2063
01:44:34,439 --> 01:44:37,080
Speaker 1: some of you're talking to. So they're all helpless, lovely,

2064
01:44:37,160 --> 01:44:41,120
Speaker 1: lovely men, just just like everyone who's ever worked for

2065
01:44:41,200 --> 01:44:45,599
Speaker 1: Clear Channel Communications. Anyway, that's the podcast. Everybody a great.

2066
01:44:46,000 --> 01:44:50,120
Speaker 1: What about where they can find you? Uh? Well, the internet?

2067
01:44:50,400 --> 01:44:52,360
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I have a book called After the Revolution.

2068
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:55,639
Speaker 1: You can find it anywhere you find books, like, type

2069
01:44:55,640 --> 01:44:57,760
Speaker 1: it whatever, wherever you get your books. Type it in,

2070
01:44:58,200 --> 01:44:58,559
Speaker 1: go to a.

2071
01:44:58,560 --> 01:45:01,920
Speaker 2: Bookstore, you know, with with some sort of crude weapon,

2072
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:05,439
Speaker 2: ideally a copy of Jerusalem by Alan Moore, and threatened

2073
01:45:05,479 --> 01:45:08,000
Speaker 2: the teller until they buy a copy of my book

2074
01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:08,759
Speaker 2: After the Revolution.

2075
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:09,680
Speaker 1: That's how you do it.

2076
01:45:10,520 --> 01:45:14,280
Speaker 3: And if you the listeners who do not enjoy ads

2077
01:45:14,280 --> 01:45:17,080
Speaker 3: about Reagan's gold coins would like to listen to this

2078
01:45:17,360 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 3: very podcast and all other cool Zone Media podcasts ad

2079
01:45:21,120 --> 01:45:24,840
Speaker 3: free either coming soon or already out, depending on when

2080
01:45:24,840 --> 01:45:27,640
Speaker 3: you're listening to this. We have Cooler Zone Media, our

2081
01:45:27,720 --> 01:45:32,840
Speaker 3: ad free subscription channel exclusively on Apple podcasts. Is that right, Robert?

2082
01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 3: Did I do it?

2083
01:45:34,080 --> 01:45:35,080
Speaker 1: That is correct? Yeah?

2084
01:45:35,120 --> 01:45:37,840
Speaker 2: Sorry, everybody. It's just for people with iPhones. But that

2085
01:45:38,040 --> 01:45:39,439
Speaker 2: is most of our listeners.

2086
01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:40,479
Speaker 1: One day I will matter.

2087
01:45:40,560 --> 01:45:43,080
Speaker 2: We apologize to everyone else. We'll figure out. I'm an

2088
01:45:43,120 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 2: Android user too. You know, we're all in this together,

2089
01:45:45,840 --> 01:45:48,559
Speaker 2: but sadly it's harder than you'd think to work stuff

2090
01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:52,720
Speaker 2: like this out. Anyway, we've requested the Zone Media Apple.

2091
01:45:52,479 --> 01:46:02,120
Speaker 3: Podcasts behind the Bastards production of Cool Zone Media. For

2092
01:46:02,200 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 3: more from cool Zone Media, visit our website coolzonemedia dot com,

2093
01:46:06,360 --> 01:46:09,640
Speaker 3: or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

2094
01:46:09,720 --> 01:46:11,360
Speaker 3: or wherever you get your podcasts