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Speaker 1: Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: Good Morning. This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today's tip is to make sure you have a really

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Speaker 1: good reason if you choose to do valuable things for free.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot of us raised our eyebrows upon

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Speaker 1: reading a recent New York Times article describing a job

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Speaker 1: posting at U c l A for a person with

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Speaker 1: a PhD to serve as a course instructor for no pay.

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Speaker 1: According to this article, universities often pay students in academics

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Speaker 1: shockingly low wages or no wages for their work. The

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Speaker 1: New York Times article quoted a doctoral candidate and labor

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Speaker 1: organizers explanation for this. There is the belief that you

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Speaker 1: can eat Christie Aage, So I am here to tell you,

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Speaker 1: as this person implied, that you can't eat prestige. Volunteer

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Speaker 1: work and hobbies are wonderful, but professional work is different.

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Speaker 1: When others are realizing real value from your labor, you

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Speaker 1: should get something of value too, and I mean real

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Speaker 1: tangible value. If you choose to work for free or

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Speaker 1: reduced rate in the hopes that it might lead to something,

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Speaker 1: make sure there is a very clear an immediate payoff.

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Speaker 1: It is summer as I am writing this episode, and

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Speaker 1: summer is intern season. Every year, plenty of organizations with

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Speaker 1: large budgets try to get young people and sometimes not

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Speaker 1: so young people, to work for free. It is a

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Speaker 1: misperception that calling something an internship means you don't have

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Speaker 1: to follow minimum wage laws, but I know this is

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Speaker 1: a wide bread belief. If you are in such an

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Speaker 1: organization that does have a summer internship program, please pay

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Speaker 1: your interns. Not doing so doesn't save you that much money.

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Speaker 1: What it does is guarantee that the majority of your

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Speaker 1: interns will be from families that can afford to fund them.

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Speaker 1: It seems unlikely that the circle of people whose families

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Speaker 1: can fund their summers exactly overlaps with the circle of

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Speaker 1: people you'd like to hire in the future, so it

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Speaker 1: is a short sighted move. But most people are looking

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Speaker 1: at this question more from the other side of the equation.

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Speaker 1: You face the situation where you are asked or expected

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Speaker 1: to do some sort of work for free or for

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Speaker 1: a much reduced rate. The offer is that association with

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Speaker 1: a prestigious organization will lead to something in the future,

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Speaker 1: and maybe it will. But as far as I know

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Speaker 1: U c l A wasn't offering whoever took that unpaid

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Speaker 1: teaching job a clear promise that, barring disaster, they'd be

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Speaker 1: hired for a regular, full time job. They were not

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Speaker 1: offering guaranteed letters of recommendation and referrals, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think they were even offering free tuition for family and friends.

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Speaker 1: It was just the hope that the experience would lead

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Speaker 1: to something. Hope is a tricky strategy. The only thing

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Speaker 1: that is guaranteed to come from unpaid labor is that

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Speaker 1: you will do work you won't be paid for. Everything

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Speaker 1: else is a question of odds, So before you agree

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Speaker 1: to work for free, you want to do your due

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Speaker 1: diligence so you know the odds. Have other folks who

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Speaker 1: have done what you are being asked to do wound

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Speaker 1: up with great professional positions right afterwards, or they immediately

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Speaker 1: showered with amazing professional opportunities thanks to the exposure. Talk

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Speaker 1: to them, if you can do they feel the time

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Speaker 1: was worthwhile. What exactly made it worthwhile? And sometimes there

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Speaker 1: are truly great upsides. Giving a main stage ted talk

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Speaker 1: can lead immediately to good opportunities. Sometimes there aren't upsides.

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Speaker 1: You want to know what you're looking at. You can

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Speaker 1: also make sure that things other than pay are being

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Speaker 1: offered to you. Will people for sure refer you to

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Speaker 1: open positions within the organization. Can they say that, barring disaster,

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Speaker 1: the big names that your organization will write letters of

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Speaker 1: recommendation for you. Can you get other benefits that might

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Speaker 1: approximate the rate you would be earning. Again, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that you'll never work for free or that you

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Speaker 1: should never work for free. If you're early in your

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Speaker 1: career or you are changing from one career to another,

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Speaker 1: that is vastly different and there may be a place

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Speaker 1: for some unpaid work. For instance, if you have taught

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Speaker 1: yourself graphic design, you might need to do a few

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Speaker 1: projects for nonprofits you care about as a volunteer before

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Speaker 1: you get your first paid project. Some very competitive fields

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Speaker 1: like museum work. I like to see that people have

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Speaker 1: put in time volunteering at their local institutions. Doing so

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Speaker 1: will help your name rise to the top of the list.

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Speaker 1: But most of these things aren't full time work. They

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Speaker 1: are gigs on the side that have the clear goal

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Speaker 1: of getting you paying gigs for everything else. Make sure

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Speaker 1: you are going in with your eyes open. You can't

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Speaker 1: eat prestige, so be sure that you are getting something

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Speaker 1: of value in exchange for the value of the work

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Speaker 1: you are providing. In the meantime, This is Laura. Thanks

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Speaker 1: for listening and here's to making the most of our time. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to hear from you. You can send me

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Speaker 1: your tips, your questions, or anything else. Just connect with

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at Before Breakfast Pod.

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Speaker 1: That's b E the number four, then Breakfast p o D.

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Speaker 1: You can also shoot me an email at Before Breakfast

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Speaker 1: podcast at i heeart media dot com that Before Breakfast

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Speaker 1: is spelled out with all the letters. Thanks so much,

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Speaker 1: I look forward to staying in touch. Before Breakfast is

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Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from

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Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.