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Speaker 1: Welcome to How to Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel Matt and today we're talking about the Child

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Speaker 2: Free Guide to Money with Jay Zigmont.

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Speaker 1: All right, Joel, so picture this all right.

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Speaker 3: After a great night's sleep, you wake up in the

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Speaker 3: morning when your alarm goes off, Maybe even the sun

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Speaker 3: is peeking through your windows a little bit like that's

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Speaker 3: what's waking you up. No crashing of toys in the

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Speaker 3: playroom to.

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Speaker 1: Wake up to.

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Speaker 3: You get yourself ready, maybe to go on a run,

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Speaker 3: maybe to go to work. No arguing with your kids

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Speaker 3: over what they can and can't wear to school.

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Speaker 2: This is sounding nice.

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Speaker 3: May maybe you make yourself a delicious breakfast again, no

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Speaker 3: arguing with a kid over what they're gonna eat. This

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Speaker 3: scene sounds incredibly foreign to us, because, as listeners know,

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Speaker 3: both of our families have a ton of kids and

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Speaker 3: we love it most of the time. Yeah, most of

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Speaker 3: the time. But it's not what everyone out there what

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Speaker 3: they want in life. You know a lot of folks

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Speaker 3: they might prefer the quieter scene that I just described,

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Speaker 3: and that's totally fine. But our guest today he argues

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Speaker 3: that not having kids presents his own set of financial

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Speaker 3: problems to address. We're joined by a founder and CEO

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Speaker 3: of Child Free Wealth, doctor Jay Zigmont. Doctor J is

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Speaker 3: a flat fee fiduciary who specifically addresses the different priorities, needs,

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Speaker 3: and concerns that folks have who don't have kids. And

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Speaker 3: that's what we're going to talk about today. So doctor J,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much for speaking with us.

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Speaker 4: Hey, thanks for having me join you. And that morning

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Speaker 4: is pretty close to what I had this morning, although

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Speaker 4: our dog did wake us up. You know, he wanted

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Speaker 4: his breakfast like he's pretty set on top.

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Speaker 2: Well, I was gonna say, don't rub it in, man,

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Speaker 2: all right? Like I had literally had a four nine

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Speaker 2: year old wake me up at four am, had to

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Speaker 2: walk her back to her room. That is, it's not

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Speaker 2: every night, but that probably happens once a week and

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Speaker 2: those are the worst nights to sleep for me. The

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Speaker 2: first question we ask everybody who comes to on the

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Speaker 2: podcast doctor J is what do you like to sporge on?

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Speaker 1: Matt and I.

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Speaker 2: Our thing is craft beer. We're drinking one right now.

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Speaker 2: But what's that for you? You're doing the right thing,

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Speaker 2: saving an investing for your future, but you also got

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Speaker 2: a spurge a little in the meantime.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, So I'm gonna give you a silly one,

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Speaker 4: but I do consider my splurge. I have all of

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Speaker 4: the streaming services, like, and I can't watch them all once,

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Speaker 4: but like, I like being able to switch between them,

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Speaker 4: except Apple Plus. They keep running out of shows so

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Speaker 4: I have to cancel them. But like, it's so nice

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Speaker 4: to have this choice of whatever I want because I

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Speaker 4: love binging something, diving into it. And let's be real,

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Speaker 4: I could probably take turns by them and save some money,

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Speaker 4: but I want to have it at my fingertips.

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Speaker 3: There you go, set it and forget it. Do you

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Speaker 3: have a favorite series or show.

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Speaker 1: That you're you've been into you recently?

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Speaker 4: So actually right now, even though I resubscribed to Apple

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Speaker 4: Plus and watching Silo, I don't know if you've seen that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, little I saw some of it. I read the book,

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Speaker 2: the first book. It was getting a little post apocalyptic,

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Speaker 2: and the book was better.

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Speaker 4: Let's be real on that. But usually, no, it is interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, I will say, agree with you.

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Speaker 2: Apple's Apple streaming service is definitely the worst of the

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Speaker 2: ones out there. Like they have the fewest good stuff.

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Speaker 3: That being said, the stuff that's on there, I'm a

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Speaker 3: huge like, I can't wait for what is it Severance

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Speaker 3: Season two to come back because I so enjoyed that

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Speaker 3: first season.

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Speaker 1: Doctor J.

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Speaker 3: You know, before we hit record, we're kind of talking

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Speaker 3: about making political predictions and what happened a couple of

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Speaker 3: weeks ago in South Korea. We're gonna avoid the political

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Speaker 3: chatter on this question, but like being child free, it

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Speaker 3: certainly seems like it's like it's trending up. How big

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Speaker 3: of a trend is it becoming based on the data

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Speaker 3: that we've seen recently, so.

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Speaker 4: If you look at the overall population as best we

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Speaker 4: can guess, because we don't have great studies on this,

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Speaker 4: because it's not a question that's ask there's about twenty

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Speaker 4: five percent of the US our child free or permanently childless.

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Speaker 4: And just for definition, child free means you don't have kids,

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Speaker 4: aren't planning to having kids ever, usually by choice. Childis

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Speaker 4: tends to be now by choice. It's not like your

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Speaker 4: child free for the weekend. You know, the grandkids get

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Speaker 4: you know, the grandparents have the kids for a bit, No,

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Speaker 4: like never, And if you look at the younger generations,

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Speaker 4: they're just stopping and pausing before they have kids and

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Speaker 4: going do I want to do this. Yeah, and that

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Speaker 4: is completely different than what we call the standard life

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Speaker 4: script just is go to school, get married, have kids.

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Speaker 4: Like it. It's that American dream, you know, the house,

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Speaker 4: the pick offense to two and a half kids, a dog.

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Speaker 4: I think you're seeing a lot of the younger generations.

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Speaker 4: We've actually studied why they choose to be child free.

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Speaker 4: And I'm like, you know, in this world and in

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Speaker 4: where my finances are, where my life is, where my

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Speaker 4: health is, I'm gonna skip having kids. It's not better

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Speaker 4: or worse, it's just different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: On the generational thing, I'm curious to pick your brain

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Speaker 2: on this because the there were all these predictions about millennials. Hey,

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Speaker 2: they're always going to live in the city, they're never

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Speaker 2: moving to the suburbs. And it seems like maybe some

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Speaker 2: of the things that millennials were supposed to do, or

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Speaker 2: or maybe like that they were likely to avoid ended

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Speaker 2: up happening just a little bit delayed. Do you think

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Speaker 2: that's going to be the case for younger generations like

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Speaker 2: gen Z Or is that one of those things where

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Speaker 2: it's like now they're flipping the script.

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Speaker 4: You know. I always have people, you know, ask this question.

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Speaker 4: They usually ask the question like, are they going to

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Speaker 4: change their mind? You know, and there's a lot of

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Speaker 4: judgment built in there. But I'll just give you an example.

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Speaker 4: So I interviewed a whole bunch of people from my

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Speaker 4: book for the first book with ports of child free wealth,

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Speaker 4: and I had somebody, there's twenty one getting sterilized. They're

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Speaker 4: not changing their mind. If you actually look at the

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Speaker 4: number adults under forty nine who don't have kids, forty

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Speaker 4: seven percent say they're never gonna have kids. So I

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Speaker 4: mean we're talking huge, huge numbers. It's not like, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're putting it off and doing it later.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that? So, based on some of the

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Speaker 3: interviews you've that you've done, are child free folks actually

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Speaker 3: better off financially according to the data and according to

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Speaker 3: some of the life experiences and the anecdotal evidence that

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Speaker 3: you've come across.

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Speaker 4: So this is where it gets interesting. Child free folks

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Speaker 4: don't have a goal of passing on money to next generation,

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Speaker 4: so they actually tend to bring their net worth down

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Speaker 4: over time intentionally, kind of that dio zero approach. So

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Speaker 4: when you look at total net worth, there's a slight difference,

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Speaker 4: but not much. What is interesting is if you look

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Speaker 4: at the gender wage gap. If you look at parents,

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Speaker 4: you know, if you have a standard couple, you have

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Speaker 4: a male female, the woman tends to make about eighteen

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Speaker 4: eighteen hundred dollars less per month, that's median income monthly income.

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Speaker 4: If you look at child free couples, that gap goes

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Speaker 4: down to one hundred and twenty bucks a month, which

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Speaker 4: statistically is nothing.

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Speaker 1: Basically yeah, non existent.

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Speaker 4: Right, So it's not actually like they're like, you don't

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Speaker 4: become child free. There's not like a check you get

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Speaker 4: in the male you become rich, but you get different

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Speaker 4: choices in life, and we're seeing it in things like income.

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Speaker 4: And it's really interesting when you say, hey, this gender

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Speaker 4: wage gap, there's such a big issue, disappears and like

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Speaker 4: you have to stop and think about that.

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Speaker 2: So when you look at the people give for why

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Speaker 2: they opt to go child free, and say, listen, having

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Speaker 2: kids isn't for us. Finances tend to be the second

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Speaker 2: biggest reason. Then most people say, hey, not doing this,

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Speaker 2: not going down that path, Like is it the the

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Speaker 2: headline number to raise a kid to maturity that has

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Speaker 2: people freaked out about procreating? Is that's sort of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's going to cost you a quarter million dollars to

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Speaker 2: get this child from age zero to eighteen, And man,

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Speaker 2: I think of all the things I could do with

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Speaker 2: that money instead. Like what when we say finances is

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Speaker 2: one of the top reasons, what do we mean by that?

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Speaker 4: You know? In actuality, most people when they're child free

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Speaker 4: have more than one reason why they not gonna have kids.

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Speaker 4: And we've actually studied this and finances is about thirty

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Speaker 4: percent of folks cite it. And it's interesting because a

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Speaker 4: lot of them and I don't have I've been kind

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Speaker 4: of down this rabbit hole trying to find better data,

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Speaker 4: but a lot of them are like, hey, I saw

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Speaker 4: my parents struggle. I don't want to do that, and

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Speaker 4: like this. There's a lot of this story about like

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Speaker 4: I had difficulty growing up or we had difficulty growing up,

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Speaker 4: and that's where we're going to go. And what's interesting

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Speaker 4: is if you actually sit down and look at the

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Speaker 4: finances of having kids, it can scare anybody, you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's eighteen thousand dollars a year on average.

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Speaker 4: I had somebody we still have a few clients that

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Speaker 4: have kids, and I had somebody who want to put

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Speaker 4: their kid through private school and then college. And the

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Speaker 4: total budget was a million dollars, like huge numbers, but

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Speaker 4: a lot of times people don't even stop and think,

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Speaker 4: you know, we were in the pre record, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm just outside Nashville. And you mentioned Dave Ramsey, and

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Speaker 4: Dave Ramsey's interesting these guys baby steps program. We've got

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Speaker 4: a program we called the No Baby Steps, so we

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Speaker 4: just gotta have the alter alternant. But what's interesting about

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Speaker 4: his program is he has a financial plan for buying

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Speaker 4: a car and everything else, but kids come. Whenever the

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Speaker 4: kids come, you know, and there's some religious things there

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Speaker 4: and other things. But like if you actually stop and

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Speaker 4: look at the finances, a lot of people will go,

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Speaker 4: how the heck am I going to do this in

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Speaker 4: this economy, in this housing market, like in this wage

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Speaker 4: is it's hard. I mean, I give it to parents

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Speaker 4: who are figuring out how to do it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It's what you're pointing out is that it's

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Speaker 2: a bigger financial decision than buying a Toyota camera.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but people just default and do it, you know,

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Speaker 4: like you're just expected to do it. And what we

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Speaker 4: found is, in many cases, child free people put more

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Speaker 4: thought into not having kids. Then parents put into having

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Speaker 4: kids and I'm not judging it all like I don't

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Speaker 4: get a vote when you having kids or not, Like

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Speaker 4: that's what you do, awesome, But what happens is having

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Speaker 4: kids is the default choice. The not having is the

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Speaker 4: going against the grain and going against the shared life script.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I guess historically speaking, the civilization and progress and a

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Speaker 3: lot of that is based on having kids. And so

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Speaker 3: I think if someone is going to the lineage, yeah,

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Speaker 3: like your genes. But yeah, it makes sense that to

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Speaker 3: go against that script that it does require a little

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Speaker 3: bit of thinking. But that kind of raises the question then,

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Speaker 3: like what made you want to write this book because

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Speaker 3: like it seems like the financial decisions that child free

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Speaker 3: folks face they are pretty similar, right, like like we're

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Speaker 3: still talking about saving, We're still talking about investing, avoiding

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Speaker 3: bad debt.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, address the book specifically.

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Speaker 4: So the basics are the same. You know, get out

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Speaker 4: of debt, have a budget, all that. That's good for everybody,

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Speaker 4: But then everything seems to change after that. And the

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Speaker 4: reason I did this I'm a certified financial planner. When

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Speaker 4: I was studying to become a CFP, I realized there's

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Speaker 4: absolutely nothing in the literature about life without kids. All

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Speaker 4: of the financial plans, the financial software, the education assumes

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Speaker 4: you either do have kids or you you know, planning

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Speaker 4: on it. And my wife and I are child free.

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Speaker 4: And I started this research question, and the question was,

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Speaker 4: how weird are we? Like, you know, like just I mean,

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Speaker 4: we're two pH.

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Speaker 2: You know, for a few minutes, I can already answer

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Speaker 2: that question.

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Speaker 4: Like we're two PhDs. We'll sit around at night talking

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Speaker 4: about research sites, like literally last night, nine o'clock at night,

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Speaker 4: where texting back and forth about a research study, like

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Speaker 4: in bed, like I mean, okay, we're weird, but how

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Speaker 4: weird are we for being child free in the life

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Speaker 4: we live? And all that? And I didn't even know

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Speaker 4: the term child free existed at the time. I found

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Speaker 4: a Reddit group that's got like one point five million

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Speaker 4: people in there. It's Reddit, so it's a bit of

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Speaker 4: assess pool. But like you know, there's these groups. And

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Speaker 4: come to find out, being child free changes almost everything

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Speaker 4: about your life and financial plan because the core assumptions

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Speaker 4: are different. Child Free people don't want to pass some

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Speaker 4: money the generation, they don't want to retire, or in

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Speaker 4: the classical sense, they've got to worry about their long

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Speaker 4: term care. Things like life insurance doesn't fit. They're making

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Speaker 4: different choice with their life, and to the point where

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Speaker 4: what we say is you have to plan for your

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Speaker 4: life first, then your finances, which may sound like semantics,

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Speaker 4: but that's a big difference.

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Speaker 2: So you just mentioned like maybe a different view of

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Speaker 2: retirement for child free folks. For is it just that

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Speaker 2: they have more or flexibility over when they're willing to

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Speaker 2: or desirous of retiring And what are the major particular

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Speaker 2: financial challenges that child free folks need to consider. I've

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Speaker 2: got to think, I mean, just we talked about this

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Speaker 2: just briefly at the beginning, but that achieving financial freedom

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Speaker 2: is actually easier, right because you're talking about eighteen thousand

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Speaker 2: bucks a year for kids. I mean, that might be overblown,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know that I one hundred percent agree

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Speaker 2: with those statistics, but you know, without having to expensive

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Speaker 2: kids to raise, plus you've got more free time to

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Speaker 2: let's say you want to increase your income. I got

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Speaker 2: to think the financial piece of the puzzle it becomes

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Speaker 2: easier to solve.

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Speaker 4: It's not necessarily easier. So income disparities still exists if

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Speaker 4: your child free or not. You know, there are still

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Speaker 4: people who are struggling, but the difference is you get

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Speaker 4: different options. So, for example, my wife got offered a

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Speaker 4: job and we embrace someone called the garden of the Rose.

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Speaker 4: One's growing, on's vice support. She's the rose right now growing.

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Speaker 4: She's like, I want this job opportunity, it's twelve hundred

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Speaker 4: miles away. We packed up the car and went. Like

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Speaker 4: the biggest issue was you got to see two masterifs

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Speaker 4: in the back of a Prius. That was hilarious, but

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Speaker 4: like we could do that for her career. And what

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Speaker 4: we find is for child free people, the goal is

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Speaker 4: not fire or standard retirement. It's how do I enjoy

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Speaker 4: my life more. Now we have a concept we call

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Speaker 4: file finance priends live early, where it's more like dialing

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Speaker 4: backwork to the work you enjoy and doing that across

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Speaker 4: your life versus I just want to put in my

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Speaker 4: years and get out. So I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: people that leave really high paying jobs to go do

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Speaker 4: something they enjoy. You know, for some reason, I have

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Speaker 4: a lot of librarians. I don't know why they want

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Speaker 4: to go back and be librarians or authors or things

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Speaker 4: like that don't pay a lot of money, but they

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Speaker 4: can enjoy their life. And what happens is, yes, if

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Speaker 4: they were one hundred percent focused on money, they have

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Speaker 4: the time to do side businesses all that they can

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Speaker 4: grind it out. But then you hit what we call

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Speaker 4: the child free midlife crisis, which is you hit your

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Speaker 4: personal professional financial goals. You're like, now, what, Like we

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Speaker 4: hit that way earlier in our life, and it's that

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Speaker 4: existential crisis, like, what's the point? What's my next forty years?

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Speaker 4: Look like? That's really hard.

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Speaker 2: That's a really good point because when you have extra

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Speaker 2: mouths to feed and you have maybe a bigger house

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Speaker 2: in which means a bigger mortgage because you've got more

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Speaker 2: people living under the roof, the flexibility that you can

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Speaker 2: have typically unless you're incredibly dedicated to building financial security

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Speaker 2: for yourself is minimal. Like you can't just say I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna take this job and shove it. I'm gonna go,

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Speaker 2: you know, write the next great American novel, because you

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Speaker 2: got to have that next paycheck to be able to

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Speaker 2: feed the kids all and keep the lights on. So

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Speaker 2: that it sounds like that's one of the benefits of

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Speaker 2: opting to be child free is not necessarily that oh

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna, you know, get millions in the bank more quickly,

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Speaker 2: but that hey, I can make alternative decisions that would

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Speaker 2: be much harder to make if I had kids in

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Speaker 2: my life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. The way we say it is living a life

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Speaker 4: of child free wealth means you have time, money, and

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Speaker 4: freedom to do to enjoy. It doesn't mean you're rich,

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Speaker 4: like it doesn't mean the bank account is huge, but

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Speaker 4: you have that flexibility. You know. We have a child

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Speaker 4: Free Wealth podcast and one of our top downloaded episodes

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Speaker 4: is I'll make you quit your job. And when I

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Speaker 4: work with clients, my para planner with at the time

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Speaker 4: was helping me out. She actually kept track us. It

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Speaker 4: was something like eighty percent of the clients we met

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Speaker 4: with them like, quit your job, you hate it, it's

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Speaker 4: making you miserable. Let's go find you something else. And

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Speaker 4: like just the standard says, you've got to do this,

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Speaker 4: You got to feed into the house, you gotta do

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Speaker 4: all that. Child free people we rent, like, we can

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Speaker 4: we can move, we can move every two years, we

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Speaker 4: can do whatever you want. And it gets to a

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Speaker 4: point where it's almost too much flexibility and it can

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Speaker 4: become analysis paralysis or paradox of choice, like what do

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Speaker 4: I do if I can do anything?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Well, I mean so yeah.

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Speaker 3: On that note, like what are some of the solutions

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Speaker 3: then that you provide to folks as they've sort of

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Speaker 3: reached this the stage of burnout in their life?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Because for a lot of folks, and you're write about

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Speaker 3: this in the book, how as parents, we can often

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Speaker 3: like we've got our own goals. As we achieve those,

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Speaker 3: we tend to then focus on the goals for our

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Speaker 3: children in different ways that we can provide for them.

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Speaker 3: How do you sort of ameliorate that problem there when

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Speaker 3: you don't have kids?

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Speaker 4: So this is where it gets interesting. If you look

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Speaker 4: at people's success with money, about eighty percent is your behaviors,

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Speaker 4: the way you're thinking, and kind of like does your

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Speaker 4: money match your values? And we'll spend a lot of

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Speaker 4: time with our clients talking about that. We've spent more

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Speaker 4: time on that than the actual numbers and investing. Our

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Speaker 4: goal is to make your finances simple so your life

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Speaker 4: can be amazing. But people are like, well, what I

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Speaker 4: want my amazing life to be? And I'm like, I

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Speaker 4: have no clue. How am I supposed to know that?

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Speaker 4: Like I'll ask them what do you want to be

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Speaker 4: and to grow up? And I don't care what age

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Speaker 4: they are, and they're like, I don't know, nobody's ever

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Speaker 4: asked me.

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Speaker 1: I'm still asking myself that question. Jay.

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Speaker 4: Okay. So here's what happens in the standard plant. You

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Speaker 4: go to school because somebody in your high school set,

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Speaker 4: you know whatever, it's family or counselor whatever, said you'd

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Speaker 4: be great at this career. Then you go in that career.

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Speaker 4: You're in the career, you get some promotions, you get

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Speaker 4: to kind of like mid thirties forty, and you're like,

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Speaker 4: how the heck did I get here? And what it

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Speaker 4: is is the eighteen year old version of you made choices.

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Speaker 4: You're like, oh, I want to be a nurse or

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Speaker 4: whatever else it is, and then you're like, this is

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Speaker 4: not what I really want from my life. And the

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Speaker 4: hard part is parents usually don't deal with this until

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Speaker 4: kind of like the empty nest phase, you know, the

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Speaker 4: kids are out, what's my next chapter? And some people

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Speaker 4: it's just like I'm gonna put on my grandkids or

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Speaker 4: where else. But we're doing that much earlier as child

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Speaker 4: free people, and the question we get to is what

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Speaker 4: do you want your impact to be. I do an

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Speaker 4: exercise with my clients and I'll ask them, what do

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Speaker 4: you want the second line of your obituary to be?

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Speaker 4: So the first line is Jay died at this age

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Speaker 4: in Nashville. The second line is normally Jay was a

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Speaker 4: father of three leaves behind blah blah blah blah blah.

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Speaker 4: For child free people, that's not gonna be the line.

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Speaker 4: What do you want that line to be? And this

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Speaker 4: is where we'll dig in with people and it takes

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Speaker 4: months of work, and it's like, I don't know, and

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Speaker 4: you know, if you're not leaving a genetic legacy, what

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Speaker 4: do you want that you shaped hold look like when

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Speaker 4: you're leaving? And how do you want to make an impact,

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Speaker 4: whether it's giving, or it's work or you know, family,

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Speaker 4: whatever it is. And then how do we make sure

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Speaker 4: your money matches that? Yeah, so really getting these deep

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Speaker 4: questions like the the how do I save enough to

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Speaker 4: retire is a really easy question. But what do I

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Speaker 4: do when I don't want to retire and I don't

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Speaker 4: know what I want my second half my life to

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Speaker 4: look like.

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Speaker 2: It sounds like you're half therapist, half life coach, half

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Speaker 2: financial advice Like you're all these things rolled into one

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Speaker 2: and which which is like, you're like at the centaur

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Speaker 2: of personal finances for these people.

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Speaker 3: Great visualization exactly, doctor j Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But which is so important? I mean, that's I feel

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Speaker 2: like on this show, that's a lot we hit on

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Speaker 2: a lot of other topics besides just like nuts and

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Speaker 2: bolts of how to open a roth ira or what

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Speaker 2: contribution limits are. And that's like the biggest conversations in

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Speaker 2: money center around those hopes and dreams and desires. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious too, like I feel like, and I the longer

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Speaker 2: we've been in this space, the more we hear about

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Speaker 2: the concept of generational wealth, people wanting to save and

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Speaker 2: invest enough to pass some sort of large inheritance down

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Speaker 2: to their kids, or we even here talking of super

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Speaker 2: funding five twenty nine plans and getting your kids started

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Speaker 2: off on the right financial foot. And sometimes, man, it's

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Speaker 2: hard enough to say for your own retirement and your

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Speaker 2: own current goals and pay for those things, much less

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Speaker 2: trying to advance the financial abilities of your kids. And

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Speaker 2: you make it sound like that's one of the benefits

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Speaker 2: of going child free too. It's like you don't have

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Speaker 2: to worry about that.

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if it's not worry about it.

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Speaker 4: So I think it's a different goal set. So the

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Speaker 4: way my wife and I handle this is our nephews

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Speaker 4: get what's left over, like they're in the will, you know,

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Speaker 4: like they get what's left over. But the way we

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Speaker 4: look at it is if they get like ten grand

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Speaker 4: or one hundred grand, that's fine. If they get a

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Speaker 4: million dollars, we made a mistake. And here's the reason.

436
00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:56,719
Speaker 4: If we're going to be ninety something when we die,

437
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,360
Speaker 4: who knows what age, But I'm just gonna pick that

438
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 4: they're gonna be sixty something, and the odds that they're

439
00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 4: going to need that money then is very low where

440
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 4: I could make a bigger impact earlier in their life,

441
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:10,080
Speaker 4: you know. So we have five twenty nine's for all

442
00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 4: of our nephews. We're very you know, education centered people.

443
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 4: By who we are, we have plans around that. You know.

444
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,280
Speaker 4: I have clients. I have a client, one of my favorites.

445
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,120
Speaker 4: She's got to count and it's just called the get

446
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,159
Speaker 4: the babies to love me you count, And like it's like,

447
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 4: how do you get let's be realized this And what

448
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 4: she said is she doesn't want to go into education.

449
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:35,520
Speaker 4: She wants it going to like the first car, investing

450
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 4: in their first business, or backpack across to Europe or

451
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,720
Speaker 4: whatever an experience, because the reality is for an eighteen

452
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,760
Speaker 4: year old kid, giving them ten grand for an opportunity

453
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 4: has a huge impact on their life. Giving them a

454
00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,359
Speaker 4: million dollars when you die has little to none. And

455
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 4: that's where you start thinking about things differently. A lot

456
00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 4: of child people are charitable. Well, if you're charitable and

457
00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,640
Speaker 4: you give it in your state, you get no tax benefits. Instead,

458
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 4: we can give it throughout our life and be part

459
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 4: of the cherries and new things. Like, it's just different

460
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 4: set of assumptions. And this generational wealth is kind of

461
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,000
Speaker 4: like an excuse that parents sometimes use of why they

462
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 4: keep working and why they don't have to like address

463
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 4: like the big issues about why am I doing all

464
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 4: that fun stuff. They're like, well, I'm gonna give it

465
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 4: to my kids. And you see people like just hoarding

466
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,639
Speaker 4: money to give to their kids, And I'm like, how

467
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 4: about you enjoy your money, how about you enjoy your life?

468
00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 4: How about you enjoy it with your kids? And those

469
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 4: are the types of things we're doing.

470
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 3: And I like that within that response, you never mentioned

471
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 3: spending a ton of money, even though we will get

472
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 3: to that some of the different goals maybe that you

473
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: have for yourself when you get to the rose stage

474
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,200
Speaker 3: of the gardener in the rose illustration, which maybe we'll

475
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,119
Speaker 3: have you unpack a little bit more. But you've you've

476
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,400
Speaker 3: touched on a lot of different topics, Jay, and we're

477
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 3: gonna get to more of that right after this.

478
00:21:51,359 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 2: Break far we're backwards. We're all talking about generating wealth

479
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,879
Speaker 2: and growing your money even as a child free person.

480
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 2: Doctor j Zigmont is with us talking about this today,

481
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: and Jay, let's talk about like financial products and the

482
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:17,399
Speaker 2: need and desire for certain financial products changes if you

483
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 2: don't have kids. You briefly mentioned life insurance, but that

484
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 2: is one of the financial products that Hey, typically if

485
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 2: someone else relies on your income, that's when you want

486
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 2: to have life insurance. And granted you have spouse still,

487
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 2: so there might be a need for life insurance. But

488
00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: what are the factors and how do people need to

489
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: think about whether or not they need life insurance if

490
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: they're kind of entering that child free zone.

491
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 4: So the way we look at it, the first thing

492
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 4: to keep in mind is thirty two percent of child

493
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 4: less folks will never marry versus two point five percent

494
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 4: of parents. So we have a large population what we

495
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 4: call soloist single with no kids. If you're a soloist,

496
00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,639
Speaker 4: there's almost zero need for life insurance. Yeah, I have

497
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 4: people like, well, I have life insurance because I need

498
00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 4: money to bury me. I'm like, that does not cover burial.

499
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 4: Like that's a complete a different product, you know. And

500
00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 4: even if you're in a couple, so this would we

501
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 4: get that term dank dual ink of no kids. Chances

502
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 4: are your spouse is gonna be okay without the life insurance.

503
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 4: But things like disability insurance are a much bigger issue.

504
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 4: So if you are single and you don't have disability insurance,

505
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 4: you need to go fix that today, Like social scurity,

506
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 4: disability pays nothing. I mean it's such a small amount.

507
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,399
Speaker 4: You can't live on it. And if you don't have

508
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: a spouse or kids or other people that you can

509
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: rely on to help you with it, you're out of luck.

510
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,679
Speaker 4: So like, it's not that we don't need insurance, we

511
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 4: just a different insurance. The challenge is a lot of

512
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 4: the people when they come to us have been sold

513
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 4: these big old life insurance policies because that's just the

514
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,760
Speaker 4: standard answer. And by the way, that's where the insurance

515
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 4: companies make their commissions.

516
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're selling a product maybe that you don't need,

517
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 2: and you feel like you've done the right thing because

518
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,639
Speaker 2: you've heard it on enough podcasts or articles or something

519
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 2: like that, but it doesn't fit your situation.

520
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 4: I had somebody who used to sell life insurance for

521
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 4: one of the big companies, and I asked them about this.

522
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,240
Speaker 4: I'm like, help me understand, Like I don't understand this world.

523
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 4: And he said, when he was working at the company,

524
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 4: no matter what age you were, no matter what your

525
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 4: life was, their goal was that your whole life in

526
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 4: this example, insurance payment per month was the same amount

527
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 4: as your mortgage.

528
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: And I'm like, that's nuts, that's insane.

529
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 4: But that's how they make their commissions.

530
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

531
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 4: So I had clients and I sent them to their

532
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: insurance broker. I said, go get a quote for disability insurance.

533
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 4: So they go to their insurance broker. They come back

534
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 4: to me the next meeting and they're like, I have

535
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 4: these six quotes. Five of them were for life insurance.

536
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 4: And I'm like, guess what they're trying to.

537
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: Sell you stuff, you failed the assignment.

538
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 4: Like the problem is these are the assumptions that are

539
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 4: built in, and what happens is all of these things

540
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 4: like that you gotta have ten to twelve times your

541
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 4: salary and life in shirts are general rules that just

542
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: don't fit when you're living a different life.

543
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 3: Script for those soloists, do you have a like I guess,

544
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 3: a rule of thumb amount when it comes to the

545
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: amount of disability that you think your clients should have.

546
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 4: Our goal is always something the sixty to seventy percent

547
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 4: of your income because that's usually what you can buy

548
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 4: and as long as you're paying for it out of pocket,

549
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 4: that's going to be tax free when you claim. So

550
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 4: that's why seventy percent works is because you're not paying

551
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 4: taxes on it. It is one of those things like

552
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 4: that's an absolute must. You know, there's very few things

553
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 4: in finance that I can say are just absolute must,

554
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 4: and that's one of them.

555
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 2: Well, when you look at the stats, by the way,

556
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,840
Speaker 2: and disability insurance, more people are going to encounter our disability,

557
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 2: then they're gonna ye die prematurely, right, So it's it's

558
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: one of the most underutilized insurance products that people don't

559
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:41,640
Speaker 2: think to.

560
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,680
Speaker 4: Get I agree, Jay.

561
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,639
Speaker 3: So before the break you talked about the gardener in

562
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 3: the rows. Sort of model that illustration right where you

563
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: packed up the dogs in the back of the prius.

564
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 3: I want you to send me a picture of that,

565
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 3: by the way, but elaborate a little bit more. Explain

566
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 3: how y'all arrived at this. I guess this framework and

567
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: what that means for each of you at diferent stages

568
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: of life.

569
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 4: Absolutely, and this is one we use often with our couples.

570
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 4: And now keep in mind child free couples are not

571
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 4: always married. They often ask me, kind of should I

572
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 4: get married? And the question is do you need health insurance?

573
00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 4: They go no, oh, then don't bother getting married, like,

574
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 4: you know, like it changes the assumptions. But in couples,

575
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:23,400
Speaker 4: it's very hard to find two careers at the same location,

576
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,040
Speaker 4: at the same level that allows you both to like

577
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,359
Speaker 4: chase your dreams. You know, we come out of an

578
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 4: academic world. I was in academia and my wife was

579
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,120
Speaker 4: also in academia. They always have the person who gets

580
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: a tenor track position, and then they have what they

581
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 4: call the trailing spouse, which is just a terrible term,

582
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 4: but it's like the leftover job that we give to

583
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 4: the person that we don't really care about.

584
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: The lunch tables down in the cafeteria.

585
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 4: Well, that's kind of what they're doing. I mean, you know,

586
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 4: even you know I got a PhD, they'll find me

587
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: a job teaching something randomly, but like you know, I

588
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,800
Speaker 4: get the crappy one. Yeah, And what will happen is

589
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 4: there's this approach. It's technically in some areas called the

590
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 4: gardener and the flower. I call the gardener in the

591
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 4: rose because my wife is not just any flower. And

592
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 4: what it is is you have a conscious plan that

593
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 4: one of you is growing and the other ones providing support.

594
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 4: If you look at a lot of our systems in

595
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 4: the country, they're still based around a concept that in

596
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 4: a couple, one person's providing support and the other ones

597
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: doing their career. And in this gardener in the rose,

598
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 4: what we do is we actually have a conscious decision

599
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,879
Speaker 4: of who's in what role. The rose is allowed to

600
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 4: be selfish, kind of like we're gonna move, We're gonna

601
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 4: do whatever you got for your job, that's your thing.

602
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 4: The gardener provides a day to day support, which literally

603
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,320
Speaker 4: might mean gardening and you know, taking out of the house,

604
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: might be paying the bills, whatever else. It is so

605
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 4: that the other person can explore. And what we do

606
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 4: is we put an intentional plan in there to swap

607
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 4: so for for our life every five it's five to

608
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 4: seven years ish. And I say ish because you know,

609
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,919
Speaker 4: it depends on exactly where we're on a careers. But

610
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 4: it doesn't always have to be for career. When I'm

611
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 4: the rose five to seven years from now, we're going

612
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,479
Speaker 4: to get a boat and travel the world. It's not

613
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 4: about the career to me. You know, there's other things

614
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 4: I want to do with it. And the result is

615
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 4: you each and a couple get to live your best life,

616
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 4: whatever that is. You know, there's a there's a book

617
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: out there. It talks about like an eighty percent marriage,

618
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 4: you know, where you each get eighty percent of what

619
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 4: you want. And I'm like, that's twenty percent resented, like

620
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: you know, like it's there's just issues there. And because

621
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 4: we have that flexibility of being child free and we

622
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 4: can do different things, there's got to be a better

623
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 4: way as a couple to communicate around that and plan

624
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 4: around it.

625
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. And when you have kind of

626
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,560
Speaker 2: a recipe and a timeframe for it. It means like

627
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 2: all right, cool, hey off ramp for us coming up

628
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: and for me, And I think the time frame is

629
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: really important. I think Jay, you talk about that like

630
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: how there's a limited amount of time, and so I

631
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 2: think that that's an important ingredient to keep resentment from

632
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: building up, thinking that like, well, how.

633
00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 3: Long is this going to last? Like is it always

634
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,480
Speaker 3: going to be your turn or is it going to

635
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: be a b turn at some point?

636
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you've talked about Jay, and it's a really important part.

637
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 2: I think of what you discuss in your book is

638
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 2: is the solo tax and the fact that not all

639
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: child free folks are in a relationship and so yeah,

640
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: there's been talk about like the pink tax, but there's

641
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,280
Speaker 2: also kind of something like a single tax on people

642
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 2: who opt to, you know, remain solo.

643
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: And there's a.

644
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: Bit of a financial disadvantage to living alone, right, even

645
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 2: if that's what you want. So for you and and

646
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: your wife, two incomes, one mortgage, right, but like when

647
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: you're living solo, it's one income, one mortgage. Like talk

648
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 2: about maybe the trade offs there.

649
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 4: And by the way, the challenging your language said one

650
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 4: mortgage child free. People aren't buying houses, they're renting, and

651
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 4: we're still okay with that because we give this flexibility. Yeah,

652
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 4: but for the soloist, there's a great study Fidelity did

653
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,719
Speaker 4: the Rise of solo households and they talk about some

654
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: different stats in there, and they found that the cost

655
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 4: to be single across your life is somewhere between four

656
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 4: hundred and forty thousand dollars and a million dollars extra

657
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 4: because you can't split the house and you can't split

658
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 4: the utilities all those other things, and people just don't

659
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 4: get that, you know, like some people are, you know,

660
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 4: single by choice, some people not by choice. That's that's

661
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 4: up to them. But there's all these things that come

662
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 4: with it. And then it gets even more interesting because

663
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: a lot of our soloists that's what we call single

664
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 4: no kids, are soloists are then also expected to take

665
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 4: care of their parents, like, well, you don't have kids

666
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,479
Speaker 4: and you don't have a spouse, so you can take

667
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,720
Speaker 4: care of mom, which, by the way, that's just an

668
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 4: assumption that just not be there. But it's one of

669
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 4: those things like, oh, well you're single, so you can

670
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 4: move in back in with mom and take care of her.

671
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,719
Speaker 4: No like, I can live my best life too, but

672
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 4: I have to pay for that. And you start kind

673
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 4: of looking at the way the country is set up

674
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 4: and you start seeing this what we call pro natalist bias.

675
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 4: That bias is towards kind of the old school nuclear family.

676
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 4: You know, the housing size of other structures are there

677
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: like this. You know, if you look at communities are

678
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 4: trying to say, like, how about if we have affordable housing,

679
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 4: people are like, no, we can't do that in our community.

680
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 4: Like there's all of these things and the result is

681
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,320
Speaker 4: those who are soloists probably have it the hardest. But

682
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 4: the Census found when they looked at individuals, we looked

683
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 4: at net worth. They found that single, childless women have

684
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:28,640
Speaker 4: the highest net worth. So maybe there's something to the struggle.

685
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm gonna take care of my stuff. I

686
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 4: can only rely on me. And we do see that

687
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 4: a lot where they're great savers, they're doing great things,

688
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 4: and now we're like, all right, how do you enjoy

689
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 4: your money?

690
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 2: As the next set Yeah, okay, I'm curious about that

691
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: question of if let's say the single person has siblings

692
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: who have kids of their own, and it does come

693
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 2: they're in the sandwich generation, and it does come time.

694
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 2: And we probably have had a lot of listeners in

695
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: that group who are saying, okay, who takes care of

696
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 2: mom and dad? How do we do this together? Or

697
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 2: how do you push back in that conversation, in this

698
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: conversation to say no, no, no, no, this isn't just on

699
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: my shoulders just because I'm the one who didn't opt

700
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: to have kids.

701
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, we call it the financial bingo, which is like,

702
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 4: you don't have kids, so you can take care of mom.

703
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 4: And the hard part is if you don't plan for that,

704
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 4: your mom's or your parents, whoever it is, their health

705
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 4: and their finances can have more of an impact on

706
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 4: your plan than your own choices. So we actually we

707
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 4: have a program called eight No Baby Steps and No

708
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 4: Baby Step seven is what is your plan for your parents?

709
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: And the first thing we talk about is what's your boundary?

710
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 4: So like, for my wife and I we've decided nobody

711
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 4: lives with us. We just can't do it, like it

712
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:42,680
Speaker 4: just can't. Will we support them otherways? Yes? But what

713
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 4: is that boundary? And it's one of those things where

714
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 4: people like, well, I'll deal with it when it happens,

715
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 4: but what then happens is mom falls breaks her hip.

716
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna keep picking a mom. It doesn't give

717
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 4: me dadever. But mom falls breaks her hip, and then

718
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 4: mom moves in for six months recovery for our hip,

719
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: and we get them month seven and you're like, mom,

720
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 4: are you ever moving out?

721
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: Yeah?

722
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 4: And she's like why, Like I love this here, like

723
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,479
Speaker 4: you know, and those just assumptions are there, and you

724
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 4: hear the term sandwich generation. When you take care of

725
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 4: kids your parents, we're the open face sandwich. You don't kids,

726
00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 4: but we're still take care of our parents. And it's

727
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 4: actually something I think both parents and child free folks

728
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 4: need to be talking more about. We do something with

729
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 4: our clients we call the parent checkup. Will will take

730
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 4: on the parents as a financial client, just to look

731
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 4: through their stuff to figure out how they do it.

732
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 4: And what we tend to find with parents is they're

733
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 4: either broker than we thought or richer than we thought.

734
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,440
Speaker 4: There are very very few parents that are kind of

735
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 4: that middle ground, like either I'm gonna get big old

736
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 4: perance from them or they're gonna be relying on medicaid,

737
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 4: and like living with me, you need to know which

738
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 4: one of those it is, but your parents never want

739
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 4: to talk about it. They're like, Oh, I'll be fine,

740
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: I'll be fine, don't worry about me. No, mom, I

741
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 4: need to worry about you.

742
00:33:58,440 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: Now. At some point we.

743
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 2: Are going to after I need information to work with.

744
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, and anyone listening, I'm gonna give you the same

745
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: tool I get my clients, blame me, doctor Jason's. I

746
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 4: have to ask you questions like blame your financial planner,

747
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 4: like that is something you can blame others for. And

748
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 4: we'll actually sit down with the parents of our child

749
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 4: free folks and we'll say, let's talk about what's your

750
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 4: plan for long term care, what's your will look like,

751
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 4: what's your power eternity look like, what do your finances

752
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 4: look like, what's your insurance like? And it's the first

753
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 4: time as a family that they've ever discussed this. And

754
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 4: what I find is this really really awkward conversation to start,

755
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,120
Speaker 4: but it always brings people together because you're actually like

756
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 4: planning for the future.

757
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, some of that you said awkward conversations start so true,

758
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 2: like so hard to talk to you, of all people,

759
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 2: your parents about their financial situation. It feels like now

760
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: you're the parent and they're the kid, it just changed.

761
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: It's a role reversal thing that's really weird from an

762
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 2: emotional standpoint. So what questions, Well, one, how do you

763
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:57,800
Speaker 2: broach the conversation? And then too, what kind of questions

764
00:34:57,840 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 2: are you asking of your parents to kind of gain

765
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 2: some of that insight.

766
00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 4: So there's a general role in finance that says you

767
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 4: can't coach somebody who's you've seen naked orf they've seen

768
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 4: you naked. So that really means you can't teach your

769
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 4: parents anything like just yeah, I'm just gonna be transparent

770
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 4: on that. You know, the likelihood that they're going to

771
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 4: listen to their baby talk about this stuff is very low.

772
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 4: So I actually think this is a role for a

773
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 4: comprehensive financial planner to kind of help you through it.

774
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:26,720
Speaker 4: And what it is is I often tell my clients.

775
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 4: You start with, Hey, I've been talking to my financial

776
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,399
Speaker 4: planner about my will, my power of attorney because for child

777
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 4: free people, we're doing that real early, like in your twenties.

778
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: And I've been talking about that, and they said, I

779
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: should ask you questions about yours, and Mom, I don't

780
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 4: care about how much money I'm getting. That's not what

781
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 4: I'm asking I just want to know what your plan is.

782
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 4: And as you start asking the questions the kind of

783
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,359
Speaker 4: the first time you bring this up to your parent,

784
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 4: you probably won't get far, but you started a conversation

785
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 4: and then you can dive in deeper. So one of

786
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 4: the examples I often site is you'll talk to their

787
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 4: parents and say, hey, do you have a plan for

788
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 4: long term care? Long term care is stupidly expensive. Well,

789
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 4: I had somebody who was a colleague. I was working

790
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 4: with this woman and she went into the hospital for

791
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 4: ninety days. It was a long term thing, rough medical thing,

792
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 4: got out at ninety one days and went to a

793
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 4: long term care facility and she's like, why have this

794
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 4: long term care insurance? Well, guess what in that ninety

795
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 4: days the bill was not paid for that long term

796
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 4: care insurance and guess she ends up with nothing like

797
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:34,359
Speaker 4: that is hundreds of thousands of dollars gone. So how

798
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 4: do you have that conversation with your parent? Like, Hey,

799
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 4: what do I do? And I had somebody go to

800
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 4: the parent and ask this question about long term characters

801
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: and he was like, yeah, I stopped paying that last

802
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 4: month because it was it doesn't make any sense. I'm

803
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,879
Speaker 4: like you're seventy five years old, you don't stop paying

804
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 4: your long term care insurance policy that you got years

805
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 4: ago that was really cheap, Like you pay the long

806
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 4: term care bill before you pay your electric bill, you know,

807
00:36:56,360 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 4: And that's part of those conversations is just understanding what

808
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 4: it is. I mean, I'll have my clients pay the

809
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 4: long term care bill because it's gonna be a whole

810
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 4: lot cheaper than actually paying out of pocket or having

811
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:07,279
Speaker 4: them lived with you.

812
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 2: All Right, Jaye, we got a few more questions we

813
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 2: want to get to, including what does retirement look like

814
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 2: when you don't have kids, grandkids, and and that's partly

815
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 2: a financial thing, but it's also just kind of partly

816
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,480
Speaker 2: a support thing as well. So we've got more questions

817
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 2: to get to with doctor J. Right after this, all right,

818
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 2: we are back from the break, still talking with doctor J.

819
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 3: And you know, earlier on you're talking about I joked

820
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 3: about I'm still asking myself the question like what do

821
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 3: I want to do with my life? Like and you

822
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 3: were talking about the kind of impact that you want

823
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 3: to be able to make with your life legacy, like

824
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,800
Speaker 3: that is an issue that you discuss with your clients

825
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 3: because I think many child free folks want to leave one,

826
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:54,880
Speaker 3: but they're not.

827
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,319
Speaker 1: You know, they're not doing it in the form of

828
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 1: offspring with their kids.

829
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: But what other specific suggestions do you have for them

830
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: as they're trying to find some different creative ways to

831
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: do something with her money in an impactful way after

832
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: they've left this mortal coil.

833
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 4: So, really, what I'm trying to do, I call it

834
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 4: recondoing your life. Let's get rid of the things that

835
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: don't bring you joy and do more of the things

836
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 4: that do, which sounds simple, but that's actually really hard,

837
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 4: especially when you've been doing things for across your life,

838
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,399
Speaker 4: Like what do you really enjoy? What do you want

839
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 4: to make an impact on? What are the causes, what

840
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 4: are the people you care about? And how do we

841
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 4: do that? So I had a conversation with a client

842
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 4: on this and come to find out what she really

843
00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 4: wants is her impact is she wants to have that

844
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 4: garden that's the one known throughout the neighborhood that people

845
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,360
Speaker 4: come to, they walk through, they get centered with the universe,

846
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 4: they see the butterflies, they do this, and I'm like, Okay,

847
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 4: if that's the impact you want to make, then we

848
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 4: got to buy you some land you can make this

849
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 4: nice garden with. And at the time she was renting,

850
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 4: I'm like, no, no, no, we need to put your

851
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: money towards this. And it was interesting because people think

852
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 4: about like legacy as like giving money to a charity

853
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 4: or people, but how do you want to make an impact?

854
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 4: And her impact was I want to have this impact

855
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 4: on the community in this way. I have others that,

856
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 4: you know, we have a debate do you want to

857
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 4: give money or do you want to give time? You know,

858
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 4: so if you're going to do charitable donations, the time

859
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 4: is throughout your life. But if you give enough money

860
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 4: then you could be on the boards. Do you want

861
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 4: to be part of it? And what we'll tend to

862
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 4: do is, at some point in a child free person's life,

863
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 4: every dollar you earn is going towards your estate, which

864
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 4: is not a priority. So we got to bend the

865
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 4: curve and start spending more money. And often what we'll

866
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 4: do is set a goal that like, let's say they

867
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 4: love travel, that they do an equal amount of travel

868
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 4: as giving, Like I'm talking about like I have clients

869
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 4: like spending six figures a year on both giving and travel,

870
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 4: and we'll work through this whole process, and I'll help

871
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 4: through a tack stuff and all that's easy. At the

872
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 4: end of the year, I always ask them, did you

873
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 4: get more out of the giving or more out of

874
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 4: the travel. You'd be amazed how many times it's the

875
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 4: giving that they got more out of And like, that's

876
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,759
Speaker 4: part of that conversation. And what the reason I do

877
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 4: that is It allows them to have spend a little

878
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 4: bit on themselves enjoy it, but at the same time,

879
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 4: it also allows them to make an impact and test it. Yeah,

880
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,759
Speaker 4: and now I've had other people like I gave to

881
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 4: this charity, that charity just was terrible, Like I didn't

882
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 4: like what they did with it. I'm never gonna give

883
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 4: to them again. Awesome, Like we learned we can try

884
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 4: these things and then figure out what do we want

885
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 4: the next forty years of our life to look like

886
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 4: and optimize for that.

887
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 3: I love that that you are literally doing an assessment

888
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: as opposed to I think oftentimes folks think about it

889
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: from the standpoint of like, Okay, they have this picture

890
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 3: in their mind as to what they want it to

891
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: look like, but like they're never really gonna know whether

892
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: or not that that's going to provide fulfillment to them

893
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 3: right Like they might even end up like in their

894
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 3: later years and dying hoping that it leaves the kind

895
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: of impact that they're wishing it would. But the ability

896
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 3: to kind of try it out beforehand, I think that's

897
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 3: a really smart way to kind of just do this

898
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 3: like ab testing and see which one of these moves

899
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: the needle of the most and oh, that moved the

900
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: needle a ton. Okay, how can I then funnel even

901
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: more dollars towards that? I think that's incredibly start.

902
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 2: Wade into the waters right to see is this the

903
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: kind of water I want to be something to right out? Yeah. Jay,

904
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: When we're talking about retirement, oftentimes the four percent rule

905
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: is something that people are told, oh, yeah, this is

906
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 2: the amount that you can tap of your retirement accounts

907
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: without running out of money later on down the road.

908
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 2: And so you seem to think that the four percent

909
00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,959
Speaker 2: rule doesn't make as much sense for child free folks.

910
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 2: Is that is that true?

911
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,479
Speaker 4: It is? And two parses One, many of my child

912
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 4: free folks aren't going to retire in the standard like thing.

913
00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 4: They're going to kind of tune back. It's kind of

914
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 4: like if you want to go down to the fight

915
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 4: the fire community. It's kind of coast FI essentially, or

916
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,479
Speaker 4: breathe the Fi if you really want to go that way.

917
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 4: But how do I do something I enjoy? Like I

918
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,200
Speaker 4: have a bunch of clients that are a therapist, and

919
00:41:56,239 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 4: they will like cut back from clients seeing clients four

920
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 4: days a week to two, but they're constantly working. Well,

921
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 4: that now changes a bunch of assumptions around your retirement.

922
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 4: The other thing that happens is the four percent rules.

923
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: Goal is for you not to run out of money. Well,

924
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,720
Speaker 4: if your child free and your goal is to wind

925
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 4: down your wealth or die with zero, it has a

926
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 4: conflict and the result is you'll actually underspend. And if

927
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 4: you look at a lot of the data on the

928
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 4: four percent rule, there's just as much a risk of

929
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 4: underspending as overspending, in some cases more. And that becomes

930
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 4: a problem and they'll use the kind of the twenty

931
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:35,439
Speaker 4: five times your your expenses get kind of a rough

932
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 4: fine number. And often I'll talk to people I'm like, hey,

933
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 4: you got this number in your head, why don't you

934
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 4: change your life now? And they're like, well, because I

935
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 4: haven't hit the number. I'm like, well, you don't need

936
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 4: that big of a number because you're not trying to

937
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,680
Speaker 4: pass some money in next generation. Like, well, but the

938
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 4: four percent rule says I have to I'm like, it's

939
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 4: not really a rule. Okay, it's a back of the

940
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:57,439
Speaker 4: nap can matter.

941
00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: It's not like the eleventh Commandment or anything like that.

942
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,040
Speaker 4: But okay, in the fire community, it is.

943
00:43:02,160 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the big difference.

944
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 4: And if you look in the fire community, it's really

945
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 4: interesting to watch. I think with the fire community, there's

946
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 4: a lot of folks that it's kind of like the

947
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 4: dog who caught the car. What do I do next? Okay,

948
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 4: I've been scrimping and saved my whole life. I hit

949
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 4: my FI number, and now I'm like, what do I do?

950
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:24,400
Speaker 4: And it's amazing how many people then start writing fire

951
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 4: blogs or other businesses with it, Like they go back

952
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 4: to something because they haven't thought about what they want

953
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 4: to retire too. Oh, they want to retire from.

954
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: On that note, we knew somebody who retired early and

955
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 2: had a pretty great job and he got so bored

956
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 2: so quickly he started driving for Uber. And that's not

957
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 2: like a lucrative profession or anything like that. And it's

958
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: not like he needed the money, but I think it

959
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 2: was just kind of this stopgap measure where like I

960
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 2: feel like I need to do some sort of work,

961
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: and I guess this is the direction I'll go in.

962
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: And that's normal. I mean, we call an encore career,

963
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,840
Speaker 4: and what we often find is, how about you know

964
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 4: you've been a whatever, you've made a whole bunch of money,

965
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 4: or an executive youve made six figures. How about we

966
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 4: do what you really enjoy? And I'll often ask them,

967
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 4: like what you want to be before you went to

968
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 4: college all that? Like what was your dream? Now? I

969
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 4: want to be an astronaut. I'm too old for that,

970
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 4: but like, what did you want to be? And people

971
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 4: will say, oh, well, my passion is I have a

972
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 4: lot of authors. I want to write books. Cool, how

973
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 4: about we do that? And they're like, but I make

974
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 4: all this money at my job. I'm like, yeah, but

975
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,439
Speaker 4: you don't need that. How about we take the time

976
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 4: to do this, Like and I have some people who

977
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 4: don't want to call phase retirement where they're like, work

978
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 4: two months, take a month off, maybe travel, they go

979
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 4: back and forth, but they're doing alternative structures and alternative jobs.

980
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 4: The result is they're happier, they're working because they want

981
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 4: to versus they have to.

982
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:51,040
Speaker 1: Yeah.

983
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,640
Speaker 3: Thus, going back to your not fire but file financial independence,

984
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,440
Speaker 3: living early, squeezing some of that living in in between

985
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: some of that work. So while we're talking about retirement,

986
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 3: how does being child free impact when you might recommend

987
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 3: for folks to tap social Security? Does that change things?

988
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 3: Or is delaying and waiting and receiving the full payout

989
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:12,439
Speaker 3: does that still make the most sense.

990
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 4: Yeah. So our solution is we want what we call

991
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 4: a die with zero safety net. And we don't literally

992
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 4: want to die with zero. I'd love to bounce my

993
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 4: last check, but I don't know when that last day is.

994
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 4: But the safety net, the way we structure it is

995
00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:30,520
Speaker 4: we put off social curity till seventy The reason there

996
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:33,840
Speaker 4: is that's essentially an annuity that it is cost of

997
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 4: living adjusted, so you have some money there. We figure

998
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 4: out a plan for long term care. Our goal is

999
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 4: to actually have an answer for your long term care,

1000
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,440
Speaker 4: either money set aside or insurance by the time you're

1001
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:47,279
Speaker 4: about mid forty and then a little cash cushion. And

1002
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 4: what we do is we say, okay, you've got long

1003
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 4: term care, take care of you've put off social curities

1004
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 4: to get the biggest benefit from that. You got some cash.

1005
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 4: Now let's optimized for spending money. And it's a different

1006
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:01,000
Speaker 4: way of looking at it. And people will challenge to me, like, well,

1007
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,960
Speaker 4: you could make more money by taking your social curity

1008
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 4: earlier and investing it. Yeah, that works in concept, but

1009
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 4: nobody ever a history really does that, like you know,

1010
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 4: they spend it or where else it is. But also

1011
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:14,000
Speaker 4: we're doing that so that the client looks at it

1012
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 4: and goes, I have a safety net. If i do

1013
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 4: spend through my nest egg, I've still got social curity.

1014
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 4: Now it might not be a full payment. Let's love

1015
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 4: the whole debate on whether social curity is solve and

1016
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,719
Speaker 4: but you know, you can figure that out and then

1017
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 4: you can actually spend your money, which takes a lot

1018
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 4: of work. I spend more time with my clients talking

1019
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 4: about spending money than saving money, Like reprogramming their brain

1020
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 4: is a challenge.

1021
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 3: Well, and kind of going back to what you said

1022
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 3: about firefolks the dog that caught the car, I feel

1023
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,479
Speaker 3: like we are starting to see more folks talk about

1024
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 3: that as well. There's more books coming out as folks

1025
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 3: are talking about how to spend money in a strategic way,

1026
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 3: because that, I mean, what does that do? Like what

1027
00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 3: they're getting out there is sort of the underlying problem.

1028
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 3: It's not just the simple math problem. But that's easy.

1029
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,359
Speaker 3: And I think that's why somebody, folks, oh, twenty five

1030
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: times your angul expense has got that, Well, what is

1031
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 3: truly going to resonate with you in a way that's

1032
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 3: going to allow you to feel like you've.

1033
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: Got fulfillment in life?

1034
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1035
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's way more interesting.

1036
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 2: And her number on a screen that represents your overall

1037
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 2: net worth just it's a piece of the puzzle. But

1038
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 2: if you're not even close to the whole thing exactly,

1039
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 2: I'm curious to jay. Like, so, my grandma ended up

1040
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: moving back in with my folks for like a decade, right,

1041
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,960
Speaker 2: and now she's living with my uncle. But it's kids

1042
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: often play a role in their parents' retirement years, and

1043
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 2: yet child free folks, they're not going to have the

1044
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: ability to go stay with their kiddo or something like that.

1045
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,360
Speaker 2: So do you have any thoughts or how do you

1046
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: navigate those conversations about support in those retirement years.

1047
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you were very nice on the way you

1048
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 4: asked it. But the question I usually is who's going

1049
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 4: to take care of you when you're older? Like that

1050
00:47:52,760 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 4: that's like boil it down, that's it. And I kind

1051
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 4: of have a love hate thing with this question. What

1052
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 4: I hate is implies you think your kids are going

1053
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 4: to take care for you. And here's the stat The

1054
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 4: US Census looked at adults over fifty five and they

1055
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,359
Speaker 4: found that for childless people, two point five percent we're

1056
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 4: getting any financial support from their family. Wow, so that's

1057
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 4: like nothing.

1058
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1059
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 4: Now they looked at parents over fifty five and they

1060
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,160
Speaker 4: found that one point five percent of parents were getting

1061
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 4: any financial support from their family. So guess what, your

1062
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 4: kids aren't gonna do it? Hmmm, just like this assumption

1063
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 4: Gramdma's gonna live with you forever, Like that's an assumption.

1064
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 3: Does that stat also include as far as like housing

1065
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: a parent?

1066
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,840
Speaker 4: This is specific about finance and that you know, so

1067
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 4: there might be housing or other support you're getting, but

1068
00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 4: it's the financial support in this case.

1069
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,640
Speaker 2: So yeah, hey, maybe they're putting a roof over your head,

1070
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 2: but they're not maybe by cutting you a check or

1071
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:47,080
Speaker 2: giving you cash.

1072
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 4: The data Unfortunately, I've worked as a paramedic for many years,

1073
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 4: and you go into nursing homes and you look and

1074
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 4: see who's getting visited, and the answer is nobody. Like

1075
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 4: I mean, it's pretty sad. So the way we look

1076
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 4: at it is it costs about one hundred and fifty

1077
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 4: thousand dollars a year for long term care. On average,

1078
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 4: men will spend two point two years in care, women

1079
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 4: three point seven, So we're talking about half million dollars

1080
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,759
Speaker 4: for women, and that cost is increasing by five percent

1081
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 4: of a year. I mean, it is just insanely expensive.

1082
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,879
Speaker 4: So our answer is we tell people, if you're gonna

1083
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 4: plan for long term care, there's two things. We're gonna

1084
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 4: end up with some money either set aside to do

1085
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 4: that or a standalone long term care insurance policy so

1086
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,480
Speaker 4: that takes care of the finances. The harder question is

1087
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 4: who's gonna make decisions for you when you can't, because

1088
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 4: all the systems are based on your spouse makes the

1089
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 4: decisions first, and then you're next of kin. Well, especially

1090
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 4: for the soloists, you're kind of out of luck. And

1091
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,040
Speaker 4: that's actually the harder one. The financial one is just

1092
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 4: a math equation. How do I put how much money

1093
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 4: to put aside for that how do you make decisions

1094
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:54,840
Speaker 4: on who is gonna put me in the home, who's

1095
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 4: gonna check on me out? It's really hard and the result.

1096
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,439
Speaker 4: I've been working on this for about three years, and

1097
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 4: in California or in Arizona, you can hire a professional

1098
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,440
Speaker 4: fiduciary to do that for you. But that's two out

1099
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,319
Speaker 4: of fifty states. If you're in the other forty eight,

1100
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,719
Speaker 4: you're kind of out of luck. You know, attorneys are

1101
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 4: willing to serve as your financial power of attorney or

1102
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 4: your executor. They won't touch the medical stuff. So we've

1103
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:20,919
Speaker 4: been working on this for three years and we hope

1104
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 4: to have a product out middle of next year that

1105
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:25,240
Speaker 4: we're calling Childfree Trust that we're going to be able

1106
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 4: to serve as child free people's medical power attorney, financial

1107
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 4: power attorney, executor, and trustee. And we're doing that because

1108
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,839
Speaker 4: the system's broken for child free people. If you don't

1109
00:50:35,920 --> 00:50:39,040
Speaker 4: have somebody you can appoint, the government or the healthcare

1110
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,439
Speaker 4: systems are making the decisions, which I don't trust either

1111
00:50:42,480 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 4: of them to make decisions for me. Yeah, and you know,

1112
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 4: the who do you live with? That's an easy question,

1113
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 4: Like how do you pay the bills? That's easy it's

1114
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 4: how do I trust somebody to do those tough things?

1115
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: Yeah? Is that not what what living wills address?

1116
00:50:56,760 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 3: Or is that just more kind of like a again,

1117
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 3: I guess, more of a serious sort of scenario where

1118
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 3: you might be in the hospital, incapacitated, not able to

1119
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 3: make decisions. Can you, I guess distinguish between the two.

1120
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, So living will or medical power attorney go to

1121
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 4: hand in hand. Your living will will say who makes

1122
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 4: the decisions for you? The living will will say like

1123
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 4: should you do CPR or not? But you know, kind

1124
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 4: of like the real bad end of life stuff. But

1125
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 4: it doesn't talk about all the other things. So, for example,

1126
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,399
Speaker 4: your living will isn't going to determine am I going

1127
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 4: into a nursing home? Am I going to a good

1128
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 4: nursing home, a bad nursing home? Am I staying at home?

1129
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 4: Am I getting caregivers? None of them?

1130
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: So the qualitative choices.

1131
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you hope the person that you name is

1132
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 4: following your wishes. The hard part is if you actually

1133
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 4: look at the data. ARPS does a lot of studies

1134
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 4: on elderly and they find me a number of elderly

1135
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 4: fraud is just through the roof, and I had a

1136
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 4: reporter reach out to me and she was trying to

1137
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:55,920
Speaker 4: talk about this topic for child free people, and she's like, well,

1138
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 4: here's my solution. I'm going to give my nephew my

1139
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,680
Speaker 4: estate and he's gonna to take care of me. Well,

1140
00:52:01,680 --> 00:52:04,640
Speaker 4: here's the problem. You just set up fraud, because now

1141
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,319
Speaker 4: the nephew looks at it and goes, do I put

1142
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 4: my aunt in the good home and get less in

1143
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 4: the money from her, or I put her in the

1144
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 4: cheap home and get more from the estate. Like you

1145
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: would hope people would make the right choice, but they

1146
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:19,240
Speaker 4: often don't.

1147
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 2: And it's a tough choice. I guess then as the

1148
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 2: nephew for sure, Jay, this has been just an awesome conversation.

1149
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 2: You've shed a lot of light on what child free

1150
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,319
Speaker 2: folks endure when they're thinking about their finances from whether

1151
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 2: they're solo or in a relationship. Where can our listeners

1152
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,799
Speaker 2: go to find out more about your book and what

1153
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 2: you're up to.

1154
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 4: So the book is the child Free Guide to life

1155
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 4: and Money out in your favorite bookstores. Always encourage people

1156
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,480
Speaker 4: to go to your favorite independent bookstore websites, child fiewealth

1157
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 4: dot com, child fee wealth on all the socials except

1158
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 4: for Twitter, because he says childless people should not have

1159
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 4: a vote, so you know the choices we have to make.

1160
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,960
Speaker 1: All right, Well, doctor j we appreciate you taking the

1161
00:52:59,000 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: time to chat with us.

1162
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 4: Great having you all.

1163
00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:03,840
Speaker 2: Right, Matt, good combat with doctor j R. Make you

1164
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:05,440
Speaker 2: want to send all your kids off to boarding school.

1165
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:07,319
Speaker 3: Didn't make you want to go back in time and

1166
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: not have any kids so that you could truly have

1167
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 3: that great night's sleep that you didn't have last.

1168
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 2: Night, I mean, the way you described it. Sorry to

1169
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,800
Speaker 2: hear about that. I'm not gonna lie. It sounded nice,

1170
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,240
Speaker 2: but no, I'm not willing to upend my entire family structure.

1171
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:18,799
Speaker 1: Well, that's the thing.

1172
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 3: And like, I don't think either of us felt the

1173
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 3: need to belabor the point of our own worldview and

1174
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 3: kind of what we think is important. And obviously kids,

1175
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 3: I mean, they are a massive part of that. But

1176
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 3: even still, it was a lot of fun to talk

1177
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 3: with doctor j because there were like certain commonalities that, like,

1178
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 3: everything that he talks about is something that's important to

1179
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 3: folks who are child free. Are also things that we

1180
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 3: do when it comes to making sure specifically that our

1181
00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 3: money and our spending aligns with our values. And so

1182
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 3: my big takeaway is going to be when he was

1183
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:48,759
Speaker 3: talking about it's when I asked about, like I guess,

1184
00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 3: the legacy aspect of your life, and he was talking

1185
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 3: about different ways to essentially leave an impact now and

1186
00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 3: the here and now while you're still alive and not

1187
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,439
Speaker 3: just putting it off as of this ultimate destination right

1188
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,759
Speaker 3: And in a similar way, I think that's oftentimes how

1189
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:06,920
Speaker 3: a traditional view of retirement is looked at. It's like,

1190
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:09,160
Speaker 3: I'm going to get to this point of nirvana and

1191
00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 3: it's going to be easy for me to step away

1192
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 3: from my work and I'm going to have quote unquote enough.

1193
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 3: In a similar way, when it comes to how we're

1194
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,120
Speaker 3: living our life, like find some of the different ways

1195
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 3: where are spending and how we're spending our time can

1196
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 3: align with what's important. And I love the example that

1197
00:54:22,280 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: he gave of the lady that wanted to leave like

1198
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 3: a community garden, and I think there's all sorts of

1199
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 3: different ways that we can do that does not necessarily

1200
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 3: bolster our bottom line like our net worth number, but

1201
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 3: it does start to shape and have an impact on

1202
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 3: what our world and our communities look like today. And

1203
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 3: Man I am one hundred percent all about that, even

1204
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,319
Speaker 3: if it's done like sacrificially. Probably even all the better

1205
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 3: if it's done sacrificially, because that means it's even more

1206
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 3: important to you. But finding ways to essentially convert our

1207
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,759
Speaker 3: dollars into difference in the world.

1208
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: Or into impact, Yeah yeah, yeah, So about you. When

1209
00:54:56,640 --> 00:55:00,440
Speaker 2: he said to talked about alternative structures and alternative jobs,

1210
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: I thought that was so compelling. And I think this

1211
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,439
Speaker 2: is true for people who are child free and people

1212
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,680
Speaker 2: who are not child free, and I think it probably

1213
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: takes more intentionality and it takes more of a financial

1214
00:55:11,480 --> 00:55:15,799
Speaker 2: backstop when you have kids, because it's just harder to achieve, right,

1215
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 2: some of those alternatives, like if you're making now the

1216
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 2: encore jobs, yeah yeah, and then you opt to go

1217
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 2: become a librarian and you're making a third of that

1218
00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 2: or something like that's really difficult to pull the trigger

1219
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:29,319
Speaker 2: on when you have mouse to feed, when you have

1220
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,680
Speaker 2: a family. But if you just have a spouse, or

1221
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 2: if you are a what he called a soloist, you

1222
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,040
Speaker 2: have a lot more options over what your life looks like.

1223
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,040
Speaker 2: And you might say, you know what, I have been

1224
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,399
Speaker 2: killing it at this high end job this high earning job,

1225
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,640
Speaker 2: but I am like so not into this anymore of

1226
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 2: those sixty hour work weeks, whatever it may be, and

1227
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 2: you might be ready to take a massive pay cut

1228
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:53,879
Speaker 2: to do something you enjoy a whole lot more. Well,

1229
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 2: those decisions I think are easier, like you said, if

1230
00:55:56,560 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 2: you have kids. But that's also those are also decisions

1231
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,520
Speaker 2: people can make when they kids. Exactly, you just have

1232
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,880
Speaker 2: like more parts of the equation to consider, But I

1233
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: think those are That's always a good thing to push

1234
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,360
Speaker 2: yourself towards. It's saying, well, can I be more frugal?

1235
00:56:10,440 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 2: Can I frontload the sacrifice a little more so that

1236
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,400
Speaker 2: I can have this sort of optionality and freedom, And

1237
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,040
Speaker 2: that's what pursuing your finances with the way we talk

1238
00:56:18,040 --> 00:56:19,279
Speaker 2: about here on how to Money, I think that's what

1239
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 2: it allows you. It's not just about building the biggest

1240
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 2: network number that she is humanly possible.

1241
00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:26,440
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yeah, I guess my. Yeah. My ultimate sort.

1242
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 3: Of takeaway is a lot of what he talked about

1243
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 3: isn't only prescriptive for child free folks. You can also

1244
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 3: do a lot of these things with kids in a

1245
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:36,719
Speaker 3: different way though, perhaps. But the beer Joel that you

1246
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:38,920
Speaker 3: and I enjoyed while we talked with Doctor j was

1247
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 3: a Christmas ale by Bells and this was a Scotch ale.

1248
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:44,600
Speaker 3: What'd you think, bud.

1249
00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:47,360
Speaker 2: So Bell's is one of the og craft breweries in

1250
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 2: the country out of Michigan, right, And I thought.

1251
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: They were like Kalama Zoo because on the label here

1252
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:53,680
Speaker 1: it says Calm Stock.

1253
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,280
Speaker 2: Mass Calama Zoo. I think that's my founders, Oh.

1254
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 1: My thing to founders.

1255
00:56:57,200 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 2: That could be okay, but like Michigan is home to, yeah,

1256
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:03,000
Speaker 2: some really good craft breweries and this one, well one

1257
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: We're a week away from Christmas, so we had to

1258
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 2: drink a Christmas beer on the show, and this is

1259
00:57:07,280 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: a Scotch jale. It's it's very much in the Belgian

1260
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: line of beers, right, the kind of caramely slight, sort

1261
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:17,240
Speaker 2: of Christmas spice vibes. I think Scotch shales are underrated,

1262
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 2: are they? We almost never drink them.

1263
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,560
Speaker 1: No, yeah, it's not a common becoming beer that.

1264
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: And so Scotch shales or winter warmers like that's kind

1265
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 2: of right in my wheelhouse this time of year with

1266
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:28,800
Speaker 2: cold tempts. But it's also not this burly fourteen percent stout.

1267
00:57:28,840 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 2: So if I want to go in that direction, but

1268
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 2: I want something maybe with a softer touch.

1269
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:34,120
Speaker 1: This is what I'm rolling with.

1270
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a step up from a brown ale. Yeah right,

1271
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:38,800
Speaker 3: and so but it doesn't it's not nearly as aggressive

1272
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 3: as some giant stout out there. But it doesn't have

1273
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 3: like this like the Belgian. You said Belgian. It doesn't

1274
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 3: have like the Belgian yeasts. And when you said that,

1275
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:49,200
Speaker 3: that's what I immediately thought of. I was just like, well, yeah,

1276
00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 3: like it doesn't have like that kind of Belgian funkiness.

1277
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:54,320
Speaker 3: So don't expect that were you to pick up a

1278
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 3: Scotch Sale and I don't know.

1279
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,360
Speaker 2: If you pick up a Belgian do Bell. Let's say,

1280
00:57:57,560 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 2: this has kind of a lot in line with that.

1281
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 2: The Quad a lot more going on, but the du

1282
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,280
Speaker 2: Bell is simpler, and this kind of fits that vibe.

1283
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: I think he's so fancy over there.

1284
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:10,800
Speaker 3: I call him Doubles. But we all that being said,

1285
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 3: definitely enjoyed and would recommend this beer, especially this time

1286
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 3: of year.

1287
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: Oh real quickly.

1288
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 3: So, Doctor Jay's book is actually going to come out

1289
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 3: December thirty first, so if you're interested in checking it

1290
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,040
Speaker 3: out yourself, that's when it hits the shelves, but you

1291
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:25,680
Speaker 3: can find our show notes up on the website at

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Speaker 3: howtmoney dot com. We'll link to his site his wealth

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Speaker 3: advisory firm there as well. But Buddy, that's going to

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Speaker 3: be it for this episode until next time. Best Friends Out,

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Speaker 3: Best Friends Out,