1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everybody, 4 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, and thanks for tuning in. This 5 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: is stuff they don't want you to know audio. My 6 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: name is Ben and my name is Matt. And today, Matt, 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: you and I are doing something a little bit different. Yeah, 8 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: we're gonna hook you up with a bit of an update. Yeah, 9 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: this is one of the first times we've been able 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: to do an update outside of our Friday blogs. Now, 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: we've covered whistleblowing before. Yeah, we covered it in two 12 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: thousand eleven. We made a three part series that we 13 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: recently released on our YouTube and test tube channels and 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: on iTunes, and the information contained within is from two 15 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: thousand eleven. So we kind of wanted to give an 16 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: update to a lot of the characters that we talked 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: about in that in those stories. Right, and this is 18 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: a situation that can happen to us when we're covering 19 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 1: something that's still developing or evolving. Case in points. Some 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:09,679 Speaker 1: people may say, but guys, didn't you do an audio 21 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: episode on whistle blowing? Yes, we did. And it's already out. However, 22 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: things have happened so rapidly that we wanted to catch 23 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: everybody up on that information so that you have the 24 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: latest stuff. First question, Matt, I'll pose to you, what's 25 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: going on with Bradley excuse me, Chelsea Manning. Okay. So 26 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: in the show in I believe it was episode maybe 27 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: it was all three episodes, we referred to Bradley Manning 28 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: UM as the whistle blower who talked with Wiki leaks, 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: released some a lot of logs, the Afghanan, the Afghanistan 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: and the Iraq war logs and the collateral murder video 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: that we could Leaks published. At the time, he was 32 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: Bradley Manning UM. And now UM, I believe this story 33 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: broke right around sentencing when he was going to be sentenced, 34 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: that he'd like to be known as Chelsea. Uh, she 35 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: now would like to be known as Chelsea. And and this, uh, 36 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: this is a this is something that for a few 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 1: observers struck struck them as I don't know, suspicious or something, 38 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: because uh, Manning was held in what you could argue 39 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: as an unconstitutional situation, you know, total isolation, not allowed 40 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,799 Speaker 1: depation and not allowed exercise for a time as well. 41 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: And later UM came out and you know, UH wanted 42 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 1: to complete the transition from male to female and identify 43 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: as Chelsea. So there's been a lot of speculation over 44 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: whether this is related to the leaks. Come to find 45 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: out that UM, before the leak's occurred, UH then known 46 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 1: as Bradley Manning, had already had some UM identified as 47 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: as someone with a body disorder. UM. And this is 48 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: something that can be This is something that people will 49 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: tell you does occur before somebody does make the decision 50 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 1: to have some sort of gender transition surgery. We do know, UM. 51 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Do you know as well that UM at at sentencing 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: UM Bratt, despite the cries from the people on the 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: far left and the far right, UH, Bradley or Chelsea 54 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: Manning was neither executed on the spot nor let off 55 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: scott free with a parade. Uh. It looks like this 56 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: person is going to be in jail for a while. Yeah, 57 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: at least she was not charged with aiding in eventing 58 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: the enemy or or no, she was not charged with 59 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: the treason and treason, UM. Treason does have a possible 60 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: deaths vnts and UM we've got actually some interesting historical 61 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: anecdotes about people who have been convicted of treason and 62 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: then later found to be innocent or more more more 63 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: likely than not innocent. So, um, well we'll just to 64 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,559 Speaker 1: stay quickly give an update from the two thousand eleven 65 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: videos if you're watching, if you're listening to this after 66 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: watching the videos, Um, it just should be noted this 67 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: was uh an interesting development. Then in two thousand twelve, 68 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: Bradley Manning was voted Person of the Year by The 69 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: Guardians web pole and there was kind of contentious because 70 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 1: it looked like maybe there was some weirdness going on 71 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: with a bit of hacking. But still either way, Bradley 72 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: Manning at the time, Bradley Manning now Chelsea Manning was 73 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: voted person of the Year, which is pretty crazy, um, 74 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: considering how vilified he was at the time. Yeah, and 75 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: there are there are a couple of things we should 76 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: You're right, there are a couple of things we should 77 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: talk about. We go on just in background context here. Uh. 78 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: The Guardian is a paper based in the United Kingdom, 79 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: widely considered to be on the left side of politics. Um, 80 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 1: the and and that's just that's just sort of a 81 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: bias or perception that we need to acknowledge before we 82 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: move on. And then also, um this Person of the 83 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: Year award at the same time as there was uh 84 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: so much vilification. I love that use that word was 85 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: supported by quite a few people and derided by quite 86 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,160 Speaker 1: a few people. Most of the people who said he 87 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: shouldn't be Person of the here we're wait for it, 88 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: oh in the United States. Who's surprised about that? Because 89 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: regardless of how you look at it, whether you support 90 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: the idea of whistle blowing, whether you think it is 91 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: violation of you know, numerous moral standards which you know 92 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: could be argued since he was uh here, she was 93 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 1: working um for the government at the time, and you 94 00:05:57,279 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: know what is the nature of a patriot right is 95 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: ultimately with that argument boils down to but regardless way 96 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: you think, UM, huge embarrassment to the United States and 97 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: operational impediment uh in in the most under diplomatic terms possible. 98 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam got caught with his pants down his his 99 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: so called private Instagram account. I guess I made public well, 100 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 1: and he thought that was bad, yes, and he thought 101 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: that was bad what the government pants out? However, Yeah, 102 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,159 Speaker 1: somebody had surveillance camera set up in the bathroom in 103 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: all of the dirty places. Sure, and that man was 104 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: Mr Edwards Snowdon, who uh. Readers uh and listeners may 105 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: be either delighted or horrified to find out is still alive. 106 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: I don't know if he's hail and hearty. I don't 107 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: know how excited he is about his day to day life. 108 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: But he does currently live in Russia. He is looking 109 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: for employment. He continues to make waves, rather, his actions 110 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: continue to make waves because the leak's coming out about 111 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: the n ess a um even from just the time 112 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: the story of the reason is this week as recent 113 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: as this week perfect um. They are rocking the foundations 114 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: of a lot of assumptions made both by people in 115 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: the mainstream media and people who would be formally considered paranoid. 116 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: And and it's it's information about the entire international spine community. 117 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: It's not just about the US, right, it's not just 118 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: about Britain. No much in the same way that Chelsea's 119 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: Chelsea Manning's information about the war logs. You know, the 120 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 1: diplomatic cables were not just US centric, right, touched on 121 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: European countries dealing with it, touched on backdoor agreements and 122 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: What's what's strange about this is that in both of 123 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: these cases there are no I think we said this 124 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,560 Speaker 1: in the earlier video or in the earlier episode. It's 125 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: not as though there are more skeletons in the closets, 126 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: just more people have keys to the closets, and it's 127 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: easier to get the word out. UM. You know, often 128 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: whenever you hear people arguing in diplomatic circles, there's a 129 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: lot of rhetoric. You know, there's a lot of buzzword 130 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: terminology being thrown around. UM. One of my one of 131 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: my favorite examples of this, and this might be a 132 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: little conspiratorial, but hell, that's what the shows about. UM. 133 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: You know how sometimes you'll hear, oh my gosh, a 134 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: dozen terrorists somehow broke out of a prison, you know, 135 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: in Karachi or something. It's entirely possible that they were 136 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: allowed to break out in some kind of quick pro 137 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: quote deal. Because politics away from the headlines can be 138 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: just as Macavellian and ugly as a physical war. The 139 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: difference is that, um, often the diplomats are you know, 140 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 1: bartering other people's lives rather than their own, Which is 141 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: to be said before I vilify them. Uh, this is 142 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,559 Speaker 1: part and parcel of diplomacy. This is how the game 143 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: is supposed to be played. But the the idea that 144 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: this should all be kept secret, right, it might, it's 145 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:22,880 Speaker 1: part of the operational integrity, right, and these kind of things. Um, 146 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: but it does show at the very least a disingenuous 147 00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: cynical nature when we compare what governments around the world 148 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: have been telling their citizens versus what governments around the 149 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 1: world are doing to their citizens and to the citizens 150 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: of other states. Do his daddy says not as he does, right, 151 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: And we found, um, you had a great statistic just 152 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: how much of the n Essa leaks from Snowden have 153 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: been published according to one source, and darned if I 154 00:09:56,080 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: don't know exactly what it is. But they were just 155 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: discus think the amount of information that Snowdon retains in 156 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: his believe they call it his doomsday little vault that 157 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: he has of information insurance policy. And according to I 158 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: think it was on the Guardian, they said only about 159 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: one percent has been leaked thus far. And this is 160 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: a great point because one of one of the things 161 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: that needs to be hammered home. It's a scary number 162 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: to hear one percent, because out of that one percent, 163 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 1: we've seen some level terrifying stuff. We've we've found out that, uh, 164 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: the n s A not only has the capacity to 165 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: monitor the vast majority of the average person's communication, location 166 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: and social networks, but they also have what amounts to 167 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: no oversight with with some of this stuff. And and 168 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: and when I say that, when I say that, I'm 169 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: saying it carefully because as I am being objective, I'm 170 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: not bringing politics into this. It amounts to no oversight. 171 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: And that's most clearly seen in the fact that an 172 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: essay employees and contractors were able to perform searches on 173 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: like this James Bond supervillain level database on their boyfriends, 174 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: their girlfriends that shouldn't be happening with um, some of 175 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: this most important information. And I don't know, maybe it 176 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: was just maybe it was just one of those rare exceptions, 177 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:35,719 Speaker 1: but UH, without knowing that, without the transparency, UH that 178 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: would be necessary to know what those searches were about. UM, 179 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: all we can say is that it's enormously troubling. And 180 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,559 Speaker 1: we've also found out that foreign countries are all cooperating 181 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: on spine on each other and all pretending to be 182 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: just appalled when it comes to light. Um, and we're 183 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: talking about hacking people's personals cell phones like angela miracle. 184 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: And we're also talking about taking information provided in you know, 185 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 1: state level meetings and passing it into corporation saying hey, 186 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: guess what, buddy, which is technically, I'm just gonna say, 187 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: technically illegal in the United States to do if you're 188 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: a person or or you're excuse me, a person who's 189 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: not in Congress, because as we know, insider trading laws 190 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 1: do not apply to either the House or the Senate. 191 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: But you know what, it strikes me there's going to 192 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: be very soon another uh national debate on corporate personhood. 193 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: And I think it's gonna stem from some of these 194 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 1: allegations or some of these leaks about what corporations do. 195 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: So if a corporation does this can in The Daily 196 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: Show has been covering this recently. Um, how what the 197 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: heck do we do to a corporation? Is it really 198 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: if it's that much of a person we've got, I 199 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: mean that person needs to be jailed or really reprimanded, 200 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: not just not just find money. Well, yeah, well the 201 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: question is then you know, if it is a business, 202 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: then the business decision is at what threshold does a 203 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: fine need to be set in order to become a 204 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: prohibitive or action? You know, Um, if you and I 205 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: are making a deal, uh in a legal deal for 206 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred million dollars, and our fine is two hundred 207 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: million dollars and no one goes to jail, then that's 208 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: just part of the transaction price. That's just another tax, 209 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: and that's you know, I think that's interesting and that's 210 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: a good Um, that's a good subject that we should 211 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,720 Speaker 1: delve in before we go. Though, of that one percent 212 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: that's been leaked, it's very easy to think, oh, these 213 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: massive apocalyptic revelations will come to like like guess, an 214 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: apocalypse just means when things become hidden, things become apparent. 215 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: But the the point being, uh that it's also quite 216 00:13:55,400 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: possible that these leaks are curated by Glenn Greenwald to 217 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: make the biggest possible impact, which means that if these 218 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: all came out of a dump, then it's quite possible 219 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: that the other or even are relatively mundane things. Well, 220 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: I am terrified and extremely excited about what will be 221 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: released right around two thousand sixteen. Do you think we'll 222 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: be do you think we'll be in there. Uh yeah, 223 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: no way the scary. Yeah, I'm glad you said, because 224 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: this this revelation, the part about the Snowden update that 225 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: is frightening and and I guess exciting is a fair word. Uh. 226 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: The part about this that's just astonishing is that what 227 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: we have revealed, or what we have had revealed to 228 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 1: us strongly implies that one of the reasons uh, there 229 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 1: are fewer people in the federal level or the federal 230 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: apparatus uh seek to curtail this power is that the 231 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: n s A might have the ability to blackmail them. Um, well, 232 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: it would be extremely easy. They can turn the camera 233 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 1: on or off whenever they want without you knowing on 234 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: your cell phone. That's one of the things that we 235 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: found out they could do. I mean, and they've been 236 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: doing this well before the current administration. These are the 237 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: same things that Thomas Drake and Thomas tam we're fighting 238 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: UM back in the George W. Bush Yer's right. And 239 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: we know that this this practice UM expanded under the 240 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:38,000 Speaker 1: current administration, but we do not know how. Uh, we 241 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 1: do not know the degree to which it expanded. We 242 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: just know that it did well and and is this 243 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 1: is it a self expanding structure. Is it is it 244 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: the thing that continues to grow? Is it being grown 245 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: by the executive branch? Or is it just one of 246 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: those things that's kind of run away. Is it a cancerpen? 247 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: You're right? Is it metastasizing? Well, the the the thing 248 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: going back to our skeleton in the closet thing. It 249 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: turns out that the n Essa might just have all 250 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: the keys yea to all of the closets, which means that, 251 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: um it, it could be political suicide depending on who 252 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: the person is for them to to speak out against this. 253 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: And let's note that although although a vocal majority of 254 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: Americans have a problem with this sort of invasion of privacy, um, 255 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: there is also a sizable faction that says, hey, this 256 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: is working, this is really stopping terrorist attacks, even though 257 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: the even though it is well established that that sometimes 258 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 1: the line between entrapment and a sting operation is blurring 259 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: and actually increasingly so. Um. But this leads us, I 260 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: I got away from the point you were making, which 261 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: goes to an excellent segue. You were talking about, Um, 262 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: the corporate Shenanigan is uncovered by these leaks. Well, so 263 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: let's let's kind of jump I don't know if it's back. 264 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,959 Speaker 1: Let's jump to November, all right, we've jumped, Okay, so 265 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: now that we're in November. So wiki leaks released part 266 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: of the the Trans Pacific Partnership Treaty TPP or TPP 267 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:23,879 Speaker 1: and uh, it was essentially a draft version of it. 268 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: And this thing is huge, this this partnership. It's been 269 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: it's been secret for quite a while now, and it 270 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 1: has to do with copyright laws internationally, has to do 271 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: with a lot of privacy concerns internationally. I P exact 272 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: actual property exactly. Um, and Wiki leaks just dropped it. 273 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: And I'm bringing this up to kind of call back 274 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: to Julian Assange and what the heck is going on 275 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: with Julian Sange. So that was another huge post, another 276 00:17:56,400 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 1: huge break that they've that they've given that weekily is given. 277 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: And then on the day that we're recording this, can 278 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: I do you mind that I tell people it's December 279 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: nine when we're recording this. And WikiLeaks has released another 280 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 1: two documents which are describing the divisions between the US 281 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: and a lot of the other countries that are involved 282 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: in this and how the US is really trying to 283 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: strong arm a lot of the other countries to come 284 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: to their view of how copyright should function. And UH, 285 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: let's let's address this because there is an interesting thing 286 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 1: about the t p P that people found out. UH. 287 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: One of the biggest economies in the world it's not 288 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: a part of the t p P, and that is China. 289 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: And if you think about it, you can see how 290 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: that would be an obstacle to say the least, because UH, 291 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: the Chinese economy is one of the primary driving forces 292 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: in the world, are in global international economics and has 293 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: just a horrible track record with copyright I P or 294 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:07,439 Speaker 1: anything like that. They're like thirty different Harry Potter spinoff books, 295 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: you know, UM in China, and they're wildly popular and 296 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:13,800 Speaker 1: they're there. Yeah, well I'm you know, I'm pulling a 297 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 1: number out of my elbow, I'll say, since it's a 298 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: family show. But the the point being, now, as the 299 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: TPP negotiations are closing in UM, we have to wonder 300 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: how much would the average non UH, non corporate executive 301 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: or non international lawyer know about this if it hadn't 302 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: been for those leaks. The question now is do these leaks, UM, 303 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,959 Speaker 1: do these serve a purpose? Do they help more than 304 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: they hurt, because there's no denying, there's no denying that 305 00:19:46,119 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: there is harm done um to definitely to their national 306 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: status quo right when these are leaked. And I guess 307 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: that depends on how you feel about the international status quo. 308 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: M all right, and uh, there's you know, it's tough 309 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: to be it's tough to say that leaks about military 310 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 1: activity don't compromise um people's lives. But the question again, 311 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: do they help more than they hurt? Did they hurt 312 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: more than they help in this situation? I think transparency 313 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: always helps. Yes, however, right exactly exactly, And and that's 314 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 1: the wonderful the debate that this creates. How how important 315 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: is our privacy? And I don't want to get too 316 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: much into your kind of uh your thoughts been that 317 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,440 Speaker 1: you've been talking about this, but one day we're gonna 318 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 1: have a conversation really that it's really going to tackle 319 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: privacy in the modern day. Yeah, well yeah, if we 320 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: if we make it, Um, I'm kidding. Well, so let's 321 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: I'm gonna jump right back into back into just I'm 322 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: throwing pot shots at you guys. You never know what 323 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: math's gonna say. And it's it's crazy, but we're gonna 324 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 1: continue on wiki leaks really fast. Just to just to 325 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: note that it was a story I read in the 326 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: Washington Post on November and it was discussing how uh 327 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:09,919 Speaker 1: the justin Justice Department concluded, not officially, uh, this is 328 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: not official, this is not a legal thing, but they 329 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: decided that they wouldn't be able to charge Julian assange um. 330 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: And that's only because they would if they wanted to 331 00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,360 Speaker 1: do that, they'd also have to prosecute journalists and news 332 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: organizations organizations in the US. However, with what we're seeing 333 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: going on in the UK with The Guardian, it seems 334 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:34,119 Speaker 1: like we may be moving pretty soon to a future 335 00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: where news organizations are going to be culpable for this 336 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Well, we may be returning to a situation. 337 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: But the because right because as um as a lot 338 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: of our listeners probably know to the the historical situation 339 00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 1: has been such that the current freedom of the press 340 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: is more of an anomaly than it is um a rule. 341 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: But uh, great point. I'm so glad you in that 342 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 1: Washington Post story because I'll be honest with you, I 343 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: am not buying it. I'm not buying it even if 344 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: it's on sale. Julian Ossang is still hold up in 345 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: that embassy in London, and uh the minute that he 346 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 1: walks out, unless something changes, the minute he walks out, 347 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 1: he is in some deep Uh yeah, he's in some 348 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: deep situations. Uh, deeper perhaps than that sound that I 349 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: just made. That was a pretty deep sound. But also, um, 350 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: it's important for us to note that if you look 351 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 1: at the language that the Justice Department used in that statement, 352 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: what they essentially said was that it wasn't a priority. 353 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: And they said it in such a way that it 354 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: could be taken by an optimistic or gullible person to 355 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: mean that they were done trying to fight that fight. 356 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: That's not what it means. Come on, step out yet, 357 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,199 Speaker 1: you want to get out of that embassy just for 358 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: a second. That's all we need, right And you know, 359 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: I I hate anecdotal comparisons. You hear them all the 360 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,639 Speaker 1: time when somebody doesn't have facts to back up their story. 361 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,479 Speaker 1: When someone says, you know, well I believe in X, 362 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: because think about if you have a boat and some fish, 363 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: and you know you're out fishing, and what would you 364 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: do with that fish? That doesn't mean anything. I really 365 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: don't know what I do with that fish, well, you 366 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: know the whole like when people fall back on some 367 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of anecdote that's tailored to their cause and hypothetical. 368 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 1: That being said, this is just like in a horror 369 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: movie when someone's pounding on the door and pounding on 370 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: the door and saying they're gonna kill you, and then 371 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: they stopped and they go, Okay, I've calmed down. I'm sorry. 372 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: You should open the door. Just come out, let's talk. Julian, 373 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,879 Speaker 1: come outside. Oh god, that's creepy, Ben, I've brought you 374 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: some corn nuts. Alright. I like it. I really like it. Yeah, 375 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: it is creepy. But and also it's not in any way, um, 376 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,679 Speaker 1: anything but a funny riff because we don't know the situation. 377 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: And it's the troubling thing. Going back to your earlier 378 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,959 Speaker 1: point about the transparency there, there is only transparency in 379 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: these programs because these people have committed what are legally 380 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: crimes too, because they they found their conscience and they 381 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:20,720 Speaker 1: thought that there was something bigger, or there was you know, 382 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: there's a reason. There's a larger reason for me to 383 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: tell other people about this. Sure, that's what they say. Um, 384 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,879 Speaker 1: but now we're in this massive situation where we have 385 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: facts that we're not supposed to come to light, and 386 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 1: we have different people saying different things. Um, let's see, 387 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: where do you want to go? Oh, we need to 388 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: talk about we need to talk and even thrown colpro 389 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 1: in there yet or you know disinformation or well we 390 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: have shows on that too, and I guess our time 391 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: is running a little long, Matt. Is it true? Is 392 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: it true that you can find the n essay in 393 00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:00,399 Speaker 1: your favorite online games? Some recent revelations have let us 394 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: know that yes, World of Warcraft and Second Life have 395 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: been infiltrated by agents, uh literal actual physical agents playing 396 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 1: World Warcraft. I'm guessing there there or characters running around 397 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: just listening in, just kind of walking up the other 398 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:21,360 Speaker 1: characters in PCs. No, no, no, like player player characters. 399 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: Man just walking around. I don't know. I don't know 400 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: what version they're playing, which the latest one, Bernie Crusade, 401 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: who knows, But they're just sneaking around in the dungeons 402 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 1: going and in Second Life as well. And in Second 403 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 1: Life yes, well you know logically there, logically you have 404 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: to you have to admit if you were the leadership 405 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,680 Speaker 1: you would want for the leadership of an organization that 406 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,439 Speaker 1: wants to know everything. Then of course you want to 407 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,920 Speaker 1: go online because that's where that's another channel where people 408 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: can meet without much super Yeah, isn't that a weird thing? 409 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: And I hadn't ever fathomed that idea or had that 410 00:25:57,640 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: idea that, well, I want to have a clandestine meeting. 411 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna hop in the second life and go 412 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,239 Speaker 1: into my apartment building on whatever street and talk with 413 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: this other person. Yeah, that's that's scary. And um, the 414 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,199 Speaker 1: idea that that could happen makes me wonder if it 415 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: already has happened. Maybe who knows. Maybe it's preemptive because 416 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: that's that's federal money that you're spending to make that happen. 417 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: And that's that's both the n s A and the 418 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: g h Q. So that's UK n U S Yeah, 419 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: you g c h Q is the UK version of 420 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: the n s A, right, and they worked pretty closely. Um, now, 421 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: when when we close out, we've got to go to 422 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: a quotation that you have found. Yes, this is a 423 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 1: quotation from the Swampland blog from Time magazine. Um, it's 424 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: kind of old, but it's it's something really to think about. 425 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: Because it's again, I'm always torn on these issues because 426 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 1: I I want to believe that there are there's somebody 427 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: out there who wants to protect my country or whatever 428 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: it's for me to say country, who wants to protect humans, 429 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: right that it. I want to believe that there are 430 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 1: good people running the countries around the world somewhere, that 431 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 1: they are good people. Um. And then if you think 432 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: about what the n s A really is supposed to do, 433 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: is it's too supposed to protect be one of the 434 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: highest levels of protection by gaining information and controlling it. Okay, 435 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: So this is a quote from Joel Brenner, who was 436 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: the n s A Inspector General from two thousand two 437 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:32,280 Speaker 1: to two thousand six. So he's retired. He's retired. Um, 438 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: but this is this is just a quick quote, and 439 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 1: I just want to hear what you think and please 440 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,040 Speaker 1: tell us about it in the comments. What you think 441 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 1: about this quote. The agency, from top to bottom, leadership 442 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: to rank and file, feels that it's had no support 443 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,639 Speaker 1: from the White House, even though it's been trying to 444 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: carry out publicly approved intelligence missions. So just the idea 445 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: that we've all decided that these at least our fit 446 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: our elected officials have decided that these are the missions 447 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 1: that need to be carried out. These are the people 448 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 1: who we vote for. They're just trying to do their jobs, 449 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: is what he's saying. And we're not getting support from 450 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: the head. Okay, so that goes back to your earlier 451 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: point with the um with asking whether or not the 452 00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: an essay or the current intelligence gathering apparatus is a 453 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: self sustaining organism. Yeah, for lack of a better word, 454 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: exactly to me that It's exactly what I'm hearing in 455 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: my head. We're not getting support even though we are. 456 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: It's almost like the it's so weird, it feels I 457 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: don't want to say coo. It doesn't feel like a coup, 458 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: an adversarial relationship, it really does. And and as though 459 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: they may have more power than perhaps the executive branch does, 460 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: like they've got them by the you know, right by 461 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,720 Speaker 1: the elbows, by the albums. But the the this is 462 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: this is an interesting thing because we do know that 463 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: it is fairly common for different parts of countries government 464 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: to have adversarial relationships with one another, you know, like 465 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: the E p A will probably have a contentious relationship 466 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: with some other agencies. But the e p A doesn't 467 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: have an ear to every single cell phone in the 468 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 1: entire world. Yeah, well we'll see. And uh, this is 469 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 1: not this is not at all something unique to the 470 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: United States. I think that's important to say. It doesn't 471 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: make it right, but it's not unique. Um, the n 472 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: s A is not some uh precious little snowflake. It 473 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: is a massive glacier and we're just finding out that 474 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: other countries are part of that glacier too. And now 475 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 1: the question is what happens in what happens in what 476 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: new things were going to learn from the other of 477 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: the Snowden leaks, what's going to happen to Chelsea Manning 478 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: well Julian Assange ever get out of the embassy. Um 479 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: to find those answers, we're all gonna have to stay tuned. 480 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: We hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you'd like 481 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: to talk about it more, we'd love to hear your opinion, 482 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: especially I want to hear from people who uh support 483 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: this idea. Yeah, I really want to hear. I want 484 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: to hear what that. I want to hear arguments for 485 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 1: and against. I've heard a lot of arguments against. I mean, heck, 486 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: I've made a lot of arguments against UM, but I 487 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: really want to hear the arguments for I'd like to 488 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: see some evidence that this has stopped some sort of war, 489 00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 1: or that this has saved uh hundreds of thousands of lives. UM. 490 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: You know, the question here is a question that's very 491 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: difficult to answer because there's so many variables that they 492 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: don't want us to know. Or is this just the 493 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 1: inevitable reality of the globalized earth? Yeah? Right? Is this 494 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: just a step on the way uh so right to us? 495 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think. You can find us 496 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: as you said, men, and then find us on YouTube 497 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: and test too. You can also send us an email directly. 498 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at Discovery dot com. From more on 499 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: this topic another unexplained phenomenon, visit test tube dot com 500 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch on 501 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,959 Speaker 1: Twitter at the handle at conspiracy stuff.