1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Hey everybody. By popular listener demand, a stuff Mom Never 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Told You store is now live. Head on over to 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: stuff Mom Never told You dot spreadshirt dot com and 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 1: check out all of the stuff Mom Never told you 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:22,480 Speaker 1: t shirts, toadbags, pins, coffee mugs, cell phone cases, even 6 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: sweatshirts that you can pick up for yourself or maybe 7 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: even a fellow stuff Mom Never told You fan. 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We've talked about the 18 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: spicy Latina stereotype, the issue of calling women exotic and 19 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: really what that connotation entails. And today we're going to 20 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: turn our attention to a stereotype that exists about a 21 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:35,119 Speaker 1: particular subset of American Indian culture, and that is the 22 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: Indian princess stereotype. We want to look at where this 23 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: whole stereotype came from, first of all, but also the 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: effect that it can have on American Indian women today. Yeah, 25 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: and I have a feeling that unlike say the spicy 26 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: latina stereotype, this one might not be as immediately recognizable, 27 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,760 Speaker 1: we might not see it as much in our day 28 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: to day pop culture. But it's also partially because of 29 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: that that we wanted to talk about it, because this 30 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: is a stereotype in particular that really collapses all of 31 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: these different cultures. I don't I don't think that many 32 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: people even recognize the fact that there are, for instance, 33 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: five hundred sixty two federally recognized Native American tribes in 34 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: the US, and because a lot of times, for reasons 35 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: that we'll talk about in this podcast, we see them 36 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: through just this one one image, just one, or at 37 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: least we see the women through uh this image. Yeah, Well, so, 38 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean there are plenty of stereotypes about Native Americans, 39 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: not just women specifically. Historically, they've been portrayed as inferior 40 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: to Europeans when Europeans first came to the continent and 41 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: just generally inferior to white people. Today today, stereotypes exist 42 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: about the fact that, oh, are all alcoholics living on reservations. 43 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: They're all lazy, they won't go out and get an 44 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: education and get jobs. And on the flip side of 45 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: the same stereotype, a lot of people still just assume 46 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: that every person of Native American heritage is more spiritual 47 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: and wise than anyone else. And while certainly there are 48 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: very real issues that happen on reservations in terms of 49 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: economic blight, in terms of lower educational attainment, in terms 50 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: of them not receiving the same kinds of resources that 51 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: Americans elsewhere in the country receive, and because of that 52 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: it has produced a lot of problems that do include 53 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: things like alcoholism. But it is important to dig back 54 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: into the history and see how we have gotten to 55 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:55,120 Speaker 1: this point, um, and we're going to focus in yes 56 00:03:55,280 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: on this Indian princess stereotype. And also to a note 57 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: on language. Uh, some people prefer Native Americans, other people 58 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: prefer American Indian. The Associated Press style guide, for instance, 59 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: recommends American Indian or when whenever possible, actually referring to 60 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 1: someone as their tribe that they are a part of. 61 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: So we are going to be using the terms Native 62 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 1: American and American Indian, probably interchangeably throughout this podcast, but 63 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 1: just to note that we have done our research on 64 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,599 Speaker 1: that part. Yeah. Well, so, Kristen mentioned the very real 65 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: social and economic issues that face a lot of Native Americans, 66 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 1: whether they're on reservations or not today, and a part 67 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 1: of that stems from a lot of the papers we 68 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: read talked about the fact that a lot of these 69 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: issues stem from a culture of oppression that a lot 70 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: of these people's, a lot of these cultures have faced, 71 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: and a lot of that in turn stems from the 72 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: limitations that are placed on people when you try to 73 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: force them into these stereotypical roles, when you don't allow 74 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: people to be who they are. And when we looked 75 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: at the paper called Debunking the Pocahonist Paradox the Need 76 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: for a Humanistic Perspective, they talked the writers talked about 77 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: how early European explorers considered Native American Indians the quote 78 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: essence of what people would be without Christian and civilized behavior, 79 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 1: and that's both good and bad depending on who's writing 80 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: the history at the time, because this perception led a 81 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: lot of Europeans to assume that Native Americans were beasts, 82 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: they were savages, and they were heathens. But at the 83 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: same time that also led later on a little bit 84 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: to the perception that American Indians were these noble savages 85 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: who were so much more in touch with nature than 86 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: the civilized white man. Well, and that also leads into 87 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: from the fifteenth century this um perception of, particularly by Europeans, 88 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: of American Indians as either good in terms of supporting 89 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: their expansionist goals or bad in terms of fighting these 90 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: invaders off from their land. And it's just incredible to 91 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: see even how through artwork these very Eurocentric ideas of 92 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: the savage versus the civilized christian um really plays out 93 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: and sort of feeds into this concept of manifest destiny 94 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 1: of oh, you know, we're actually doing a good thing 95 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: by coming in here, because we will convert them to Christianity, 96 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,520 Speaker 1: we will civilize them, we will take their women and 97 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: marry them, and won't that be great? Um. So, even 98 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: if you look at early European art depicting Native American women, 99 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: these kinds of themes that lead into uh, the Indian 100 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: princess stereotype quickly emerge. For instance, there is a mid 101 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: nineteenth century painter, he was pretty well known, Alfred Miller, 102 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 1: and he painted all sorts of portraits um portraying American 103 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:08,359 Speaker 1: Indian life. And there is one in particular from eighteen 104 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,239 Speaker 1: forty five, the oil painting called the Trapper's Bride, and 105 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: in the foreground there's a pocus pocahunta is like woman 106 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: who is being handed off, presumably by her father, to 107 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 1: a white trapper. And there's a paper that was reading 108 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: about this that called it a symbolic portrayal of the 109 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: marriage between civilization and the wilderness, uncivilized woman in need 110 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: of domesticating by a civilized white man. And of course 111 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: that ties into the greater metaphorical use of this imagery 112 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: in terms of representing America or what would be America 113 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: as the Native American, the wild and untamed person becoming 114 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: tamed and civilized by white men basically. But yeah, he 115 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: Alfred Miller also had another painting. I mean, he he 116 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: painted all sorts of scenes of the of the frontier 117 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: and of the untamed wilderness, and a lot of them 118 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: featured half naked Native American women. There was one that 119 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 1: shows a woman swinging from a treety branch and she's 120 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 1: completely topless with just basically a skirt on, and it's, 121 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's open to interpretation as to whether 122 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,720 Speaker 1: he actually witnessed anything like that or just chose to 123 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: portray Native American women in morally inferior positions to their colonizers. 124 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,320 Speaker 1: Um he was. He's been critiqued as using this whole 125 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: domestic ideology to create images of Native American women as 126 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: domestic moral influencers on the frontiers instead of co contributors 127 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: to survival. And it's also worth noting that amid this 128 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: background of trying to force these kind of domestic ideologies 129 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: onto these people's, pre colonial American Indian societies were for 130 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: the most part not male dominated. Yes, there was a 131 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: division of labor, gendered division of labor, but a lot 132 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: of tribes were actually matrilineal, for instance, including uh the 133 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: Modo Pony, of which Pocons was a part of. But 134 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: I don't want to get ahead of myself, right, and 135 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 1: so it's interesting though to see this this total manipulation 136 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: of what was going on, but manipulating things through art 137 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: and and depicting things as being a certain way for 138 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: European audiences. And I mean we still see echoes of 139 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: that today in our modern media because newcomers to the 140 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 1: quote unquote New World, their experiences with American Indians Native 141 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: American people's were really shaped through the quote literary and 142 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: visual representations that helped perpetuate stereotypes. And that reminded me 143 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: of a point in this paper Our Indian Princess, Subverting 144 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:57,320 Speaker 1: the Stereotype by Nancy Mithlo that jumped out, which said 145 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: white images of Natives tell us some more about whites 146 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: attitudes and beliefs than about Native realities. And it's it's 147 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: notable too that we've been talking for the past few 148 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: minutes about art, because that paper Our Indian Princess was 149 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: all about Native made art and also often how it's 150 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 1: not so much considered art but more artifact, which also 151 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 1: says a lot again about white's attitudes, right exactly. And 152 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: so you know, if if we look at general tropes 153 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,199 Speaker 1: about American Indians, and there's a great website all about 154 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: this called red face dot Us that's Red dash face 155 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: dot Us that goes into all of these tropes and stereotypes, 156 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 1: and they talk about the ones that are specific to men, 157 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: like the chief, the noble, savage, UM, the warrior, or 158 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: the brave UM. And then they go into the ones 159 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 1: that are specific to women. And there's really two main ones, 160 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: the squaw versus the Indian princess. And boy, if we 161 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: in modern society do not still have the same arguments 162 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: about women in terms of the squaw versus the Indian 163 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: princess dichotomy, the whole quiet, subservient serving her husband woman 164 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: versus the woman that we consider too strong and maybe 165 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: maybe we call her a tramp. Well, and I didn't 166 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: realize this. Um. In one of the sources we were reading, 167 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 1: it noted that it was originally um a neutral word 168 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 1: for woman, but it's now often perceived as a derogatory term. Yeah. 169 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: And there was another paper that was talking about reclaiming 170 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: the words squaw the way that we talk about reclaiming 171 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: bitch or reclaiming queer today. While there are definitely languages 172 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: that still use squaw and variations of the word squaw 173 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: to talk about women or women or female things, animals, whatever, um, 174 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: largely in modern society squaw is still considered pretty derogatory. Yeah, 175 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: because it's sort of at least according to what we 176 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: were reading, it has, in its derogatory sense, become uh 177 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: autonomy for a woman's vagina because they're also through this 178 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: specific trope. Um. Squaws also were considered sexual servants in 179 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: a way for um white men in particular as well. 180 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: They were the one They weren't the desirable princesses like 181 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: a Pocahontas of legend, but rather um you know, you know, 182 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: the women who were just willing to have sex. You 183 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: would you would want to have sex with her, but 184 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to marry her. That whole thing. Yeah. 185 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: And and it's interesting to look at the first use 186 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: among white Europeans of the words squaw. It's first mentioned 187 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: in English by William Bradford and Edward Winslow, who were 188 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: describing life in the Plymouth Colony, and they mentioned the 189 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: squaw statue or the Massachusetts Queen, Massachusett being an entire 190 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: culture of people. Uh um. And I mean that's going 191 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 1: to lead us into talking about the Indian princess, because 192 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: by talking about the Massachusetts Queen, these Europeans are framing 193 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: Native Americans further as something that more white people could understand, 194 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: like here's some language that you fellow Europeans back in 195 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 1: England will understand and be able to get it basically right. 196 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 1: The Indian princess is basically a female equivalent of the 197 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 1: male noble, savage figure that quote unquote good Indian that 198 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: the Europeans would talk about and before we get into 199 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: more into Poco Hottas, because a lot of it really 200 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: stems from her and uh not even really who she 201 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: was in reality, but more what her legend became. Um, 202 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: this reduces women a lot of times, this Indian princess 203 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: stereotype reduces women to helpless maidens or metaphors. Um. We 204 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: read a paper about this, call all the Pocahontas Paradox, 205 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: a Cautionary Tale for educators, and it says that the 206 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: Indian princess stereotype is rooted in the legend of Pocahontas 207 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 1: and it's typically expressed through characters that are maidenly, demure 208 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: and deeply committed to some white man. And a lot 209 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: of this too is echoing the history portion of our 210 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: Spicy Latina podcast, where there is usually that that connection 211 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: between the woman of color and her you know, love 212 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: and loyalty to white men. Yeah, exactly. And this this 213 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: paper was written by Cornell Pewee Wardie, who is an 214 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: incredible educator and activist in the Native American community, and 215 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: he writes that this, this metaphor, this woman that we're 216 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: talking about, she's powerfully symbolic as queen and princess, and 217 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: she's been with us since the time that she came 218 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: to stand for the quote unquote New World, a term 219 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: he says that in and of itself reflects, of course, 220 00:14:56,000 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: at Eurocentric value judgment. But it's interesting to watch the 221 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: evolution of these metaphors, the princess and the queens, specifically 222 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: getting away from just talking about the squaw as some 223 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: basically subservient character in the European imagination. But if we 224 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: go back to Terrell Alway, a Guy Heap Portman and 225 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: Roger D. Harring, who were the authors of that paper 226 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: we talked about earlier debunking the Pocahona's paradox the need 227 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: for humanistic perspective, they point out that is early as 228 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: fifteen seventy five, artists were interpreting the Indian queen character 229 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: as a bare breasted woman who was wearing animal skins 230 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: and leaves and jewelry and weapons. She was totally decked 231 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: out as this wild thing, and she also was often 232 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: depicted with her foot on some sort of dead conquest, 233 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: and she was meant to represent not only the abundance 234 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: of the New World, but the danger of the new world. 235 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:56,479 Speaker 1: And this then evolved into the image of the Indian princess, 236 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 1: because the longer that white people were in the New World, 237 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 1: all the less scary it became, as they were sort 238 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: of conquering people around them and conquering the environment around them, 239 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,400 Speaker 1: and this whole Indian princess image. This woman was more 240 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: non threatening. She had lighter skin and more romanesque clothes. 241 00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: She wasn't quite as wild with leaves and animal skin. 242 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: She was more draped in a familiar, sort of educated 243 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: Greek fashion. She wasn't as much of a warrior, it 244 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: sounds like, compared to the Indian queen, and she's absolutely 245 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: a precursor to like the lady liberty figure, and she 246 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: was often she was often wrapped in like a colonial 247 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: flag too, being like, hey, she's like our mascot, well right, 248 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: she's bridging the gap between the two cultures. But it's 249 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: also though notable that uh, those artistic depictions of the 250 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: so called Indian queen that go back to the sixteenth century, 251 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:59,120 Speaker 1: which probably explains why Alfred Miller, in that portrait you 252 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: were describing, shows the woman bare breasted swinging from the tree. 253 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: She was probably more of a queen, more of a 254 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: warrior than this more diminutive princess, right exactly. And so, 255 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: just like Kristen and I have talked about with other 256 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: issues of stereotypes and racism, these stereotypes basically served to 257 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:25,400 Speaker 1: justify a certain behavior, in this case, justified expansion. And 258 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,199 Speaker 1: so a portman inhering right that these stereotypical images of 259 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: Indian princesses became instrumental in furthering the cultural domination necessary 260 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: to the colonialist enterprise. We've talked before about how perceptions 261 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: and racism about black people was used as a way 262 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: to justify their enslavement in our country, and so we 263 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: see the same attitude here being applied to Native Americans 264 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: of all cultures, of all tribes, because it was a 265 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,359 Speaker 1: way of being like, oh, well, they don't matter, we 266 00:17:57,359 --> 00:17:59,719 Speaker 1: can just shove them out of the way and achieve 267 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: our NFS destiny. And once that happens, use her image 268 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: as a very popular marketing tool and In our research 269 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: for this episode, we found this incredible repository of all 270 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 1: of these different products and even songbooks from the eighteenth 271 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: and nineteenth century and even into the twentieth century, using 272 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: the image of either the Indian Queen or the Indian 273 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: Princess to sell all sorts of products, but especially for 274 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:38,600 Speaker 1: quote unquote natural goods because remember she also has this 275 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,439 Speaker 1: spiritual side to her as well. Right, it's just the 276 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: whole stereotype of uh, Native Americans being tied closer to 277 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: nature than white people, and isn't that cute and so 278 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: good for them? But yeah, we have things like the 279 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: Victorian era Indian Queen perfume sold by Bean and Brother 280 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia. And then we saw an ad this is 281 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 1: also from the Victorian era for No Water Radium Sanitarium company, 282 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 1: which sold radioactive water largely thought to improve health. This 283 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: was like all the health rage back in this time period, 284 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: I think, all the way up through the twenties if 285 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken. But here we see just cartoons basically 286 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 1: imagery of Native American women being used to advertise something 287 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: that was supposedly a natural remedy for health. Yeah, and 288 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: we find her image on cigars on the nine Swamp 289 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: Root Almanac, which was promotional literature for the manufacturers of 290 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: the delicious sounding swamp root, which apparently was a quote 291 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: great kidney, liver and bladder remedy. So between swamp root 292 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: and your radioactive water, you probably feeling tip top. I'm 293 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,400 Speaker 1: I'm getting heartburn just thinking about it, right, And then 294 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: the very cleverly named Mischief, as in Miss Chief Washington Apples, 295 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,719 Speaker 1: and of course the illustration on that was a buxum, 296 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 1: very cartoonish Native American woman. Yeah, and you do see 297 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 1: similar things. They're probably as many products marketed using the 298 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: warrior stereotype. The first thing that comes to mind are 299 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,480 Speaker 1: the big Chief writing tablets um that you know, kids, 300 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: school kids used for years and years and years. And 301 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,400 Speaker 1: in addition, of course to this marketing angle, she plays 302 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: very well on screen, particularly in Western films, of course, Yeah, definitely, 303 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: and it's it's interesting to see the sort of parallels 304 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: with the spicy Latina trope. And in six is Duel 305 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: in the Sun, the woman character Uh is supposed to 306 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,160 Speaker 1: be half Native American and half Hispanic, and of course 307 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: she's viewed as a bad girl who gets involved with 308 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: two white brothers and ends up stirring up all of 309 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: this trouble between them. Um. And then of course you 310 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: have nineteen these Broken Arrow in which a young Native 311 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: American woman falls head over heels for a white man, 312 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: and then Disney. Then there's Disney with Peter Pan and 313 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,880 Speaker 1: I had totally forgotten about this until reading up for 314 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: this episode. There's Peter Pan and Tiger Lily, and Tiger Lily, 315 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 1: like in the animated feature, she dances for Peter and 316 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: then kisses him while the song what Makes the Red 317 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: Man Red is playing, And of course when Tiger Lily 318 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,640 Speaker 1: kisses Peter, then his cheeks turned very red. And oh, 319 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: it's like a whole play on the thing what makes 320 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: the Red Man Red? And of course they're then surrounded 321 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: by caricature depictions of Native American men, And that's a 322 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: criticism that is constant for Disney from uh Peter Pan 323 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 1: through Pocahonas which we're about to talk about, because all 324 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: of the caricature, like uh, Native American men in that cartoon, 325 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: they all look exactly the same. Whereas you have someone 326 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: like Windy and Peter Peter himself, who are white children 327 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: whose features are like incredibly detailed in their movements are 328 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: incredibly detailed, but then you have what looks like like 329 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 1: basically Hannah Barbera cartoons of Native American men. And it's 330 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: one of the same criticisms that surfaced in the nineties 331 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: when Disney's Pocahonas came out, because again, like, okay, all 332 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:31,240 Speaker 1: of the Native American people in this movie essentially look 333 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: exactly the same. Well, because they're just scenery. Oh and 334 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: let's just remember that we have a tendency to collapse 335 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tribes just into one, 336 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: one poorly drawn image. I mean, yeah, exactly, And so 337 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: of course this brings us to Pocahonas. Um Pocahona is 338 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: the animated feature exactly. Yes, important note, right. The Disney 339 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: Pokehontist figure who in the movie V is a beautiful 340 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,440 Speaker 1: young woman who saves and then falls in love with 341 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: the strapping John Smith rather than marry a man from 342 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: her own tribe, And of course she's portrayed as this buxom, 343 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: fully grown adult woman in tune with nature and animals. 344 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: And of course, in researching I wanted to appropriately researched 345 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: for this episode, so naturally I went back and watched 346 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: a ton of clips from the movie, and I got that, like, 347 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, that very specific like full body, hot, sweaty 348 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: feeling that you get when you're so embarrassed for someone else, 349 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: Like I got that watching those clips because it's horrifying. 350 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 1: I have not seen that movie since I was a 351 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 1: kid and it was out in theaters. And of course 352 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you don't think anything of it. 353 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: You're like, oh, yeah, that's what Indians are like. Um, 354 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: but I mean there's literally a scene for those of 355 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 1: you who don't know or don't remember, there's literally a 356 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: scene when Pocahonas encounters John Smith for the first time. 357 00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: They haven't spoken. He's a stranger. She can't speak English 358 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: and he can't speak her language, and she is surrounded 359 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,160 Speaker 1: by this magical, glittery rainbow wind and suddenly she can 360 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: speak English and perfectly. And it's it's weird, and a 361 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,200 Speaker 1: lot of people makes sense take issue with it. But Caroline, 362 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: I mean the thing I don't think you're getting because Caroline, 363 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: have you ever heard the wolf cry to a bluecorn moon? What? Well, 364 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: deeper question? What is a bluecorn moon? I don't know. 365 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: I might be getting the lyrics wrong. Horn Moon William horne. 366 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: Who's to say, yeah, it could be a blue corn 367 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: blue horn. Um or Or asked the grinning Bobcat why 368 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 1: he grins, Well, I just talked to my raccoon friend 369 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: that follows me around everywhere. I mean, I will say 370 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: that when this movie came out, the feature film my 371 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: mother was, she was not about to let me see 372 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: it because, in her words, is revisionist history. He's revision's history. 373 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: But more I think she took issue with the fact 374 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: that Pocons was not talking to a tree. She could 375 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: not talk to trees. So so that was my that 376 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: was my Pokehonta's history. But we do want to uh 377 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: correct that revisionist history. Let's revise that revisionist history. When 378 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break and talk 379 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: about who Pokehonas really was. And now back to the show. 380 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 1: So before we took a break, we were talking about, well, 381 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,400 Speaker 1: my mother's this taste for revision's history and Disney animated 382 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: feature films. But more importantly, um, we need to talk 383 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: about though, the very real truth of how this legend 384 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: of Pocahonas which snowballed into this Disney film and the 385 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: follow up film. There was a follow up of Pocahona 386 00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: st where they were like sorry about that, but was 387 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: even worse they didn't really correct anything. Um, But we 388 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,640 Speaker 1: need to talk about how this so called Pocahontas paradox, 389 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: as academics call it today, has served, you know, really 390 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: too mold a more European understanding of Native American women. 391 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: We really see Native American women a lot of times 392 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: through this Pocahontas lens. And you know, we should explain 393 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,240 Speaker 1: that the Pocahontas paradox what it is, because we've mentioned 394 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,879 Speaker 1: it several times since it is in the name of 395 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: several studies we've cited. But it's the same thing as 396 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: the Princess squad dilemma or the Prince's prostitute syndrome, or 397 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 1: as you might know it, the Madonna Wore paradox as well. 398 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 1: But it's basically combining the stereotypes of the beautiful, exotic, 399 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 1: lustful woman and the dangerous, strong, powerful woman. It's basically 400 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: a lot of fears about women. Yeah, and not to 401 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: turn this into an episode of stuff you missed in 402 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: history class, but we need to do our due diligence 403 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: of just ironing out what really happened. Um. First of all, 404 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 1: Pocahonas was from the Moto Pony tribe. And by the way, 405 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: Pocahonas was not actually her name. It was a Powertan 406 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: nickname meaning the naughty one or spoiled child. And her 407 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: personal name was mata Waca or Matoa, and she also 408 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: had a public name of Amnute, and she was the 409 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: daughter of Chief Powertin. But it's also important to remember 410 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,880 Speaker 1: too that Chief Patin was not a king, which means 411 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,200 Speaker 1: that po was not a princess. Although with the Moto 412 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: Pony tribe the chieftain power was matrilineal. However, Pocahonas would 413 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: not have been the next in line. It would have 414 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: been one of it would have been a brother still 415 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: getting the being handed the chief torch, which is also 416 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,200 Speaker 1: which is also not how things work. I am now 417 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: mangling history yet again. Hot at every turn we're running 418 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 1: into hurdles. But okay, so there is a definite questionable 419 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: time frame here, because you know, we mentioned that in 420 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: the Disney movie she is a fully developed adult woman 421 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: who falls in love with John Smith. But actually in 422 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: the time that Pocahonas and her family encountered John Smith 423 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: in seven, Pocahonas actually would have been about ten or 424 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: eleven years old, and the whole circumstance by which she 425 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: first meets him is still something that historians and anthropologists 426 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: are trying to figure out. There's still a lot of 427 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: theories about how they initially encountered each other. Now, of course, 428 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: as the legend goes, which John Smith wrote years after 429 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: Pocahonas died, um, he says that she essentially rescued him 430 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: from being killed by Chief Powaton. And that's probably not 431 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: what happened at all. I mean, there there's a chance 432 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: that perhaps there was a ceremonial introduction happening and she 433 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: interrupted it. Because there's also a good chance that she 434 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: would not have had like it would not have been 435 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: her role to be in that place at that time. Um. Yeah, 436 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: all sorts of things that could have happened. But John 437 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: Smith is not the most reliable narrator for this story. Yeah, 438 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: because the whole thing is that he wrote this account 439 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: of spending a winter with this group of people, um, 440 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: and the account didn't mention anything of the sort about 441 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: a rescue. It wasn't until seventeen years later that he 442 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 1: wrote the follow up account, and historians basically say, like, yeah, 443 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: there was a pre existing story about a Native American 444 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: young woman who did help out a white guy at 445 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: some point, So he could have stolen the story because 446 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: it sounded good, or he could have actually been helped 447 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: out by old Pocahonas, But either way, it's possible that 448 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 1: he was just trying to make his way as a 449 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: writer of New World adventures after it was pretty clear 450 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 1: that because he was such a jerk, he wouldn't actually 451 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: be going back there to make his fortune. Well, and 452 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,040 Speaker 1: it would have furnished his image because by this time 453 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: Pocahonas was well known because she had, you know, been 454 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: to Europe and made this huge impression. So how convenient 455 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: for him to be like, oh, bt Dubbs, she actually, uh, 456 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: she rescued me. So yeah. But in sixteen twelve, then 457 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: seventeen year old Pocohonas, who was married at the time. 458 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: She was married to a Palatin named Kakum, who in 459 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: the Disney movie is portrayed as a violent, savage creature 460 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 1: who she chooses John Smith over by the way um 461 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: she's married, she's taken prisoner by Jamestown residents on a 462 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,960 Speaker 1: ship for more than a year, and while she was captive, 463 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 1: she meets John Rawle, who is twenty eight already a 464 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: widower because it is sixteen twelve, and he takes an 465 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 1: interest in her. Some sorts to say that, yeah, the 466 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 1: feelings were mutual. Um. But in the process she converts 467 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: to Christianity. She's baptized under the name Rebecca and Mary's Rolf. 468 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: And this is a huge deal for the Europeans because 469 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: this means that the now renamed Rebecca Rolf is the 470 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 1: first American Indian woman on record to marry a white 471 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: guy and even more importantly, convert to Christianity. What a 472 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: prime example of how these Europeans are bringing civilization to 473 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,600 Speaker 1: the quote unquote New World. And she made such a 474 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: splash in sixteen sixteen when she and her husband traveled 475 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 1: to England because she captured their imaginations. She was the 476 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: New World equivalent of a princess. Here's this woman who 477 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: has been made rafa end and civilized by the civilizing 478 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: influence of her white husband. But she's also the daughter 479 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: of the Indian equivalent of a king right well, which 480 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: also justified Ralph marrying her because a lot of people 481 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: still were horrified at the thought of that kind of 482 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: racial intermingling. Too, so that the Indian princes stereotype also 483 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: served that role. Yeah, but so in England she was 484 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: used in the Virginia Company of London's campaigns to get 485 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: people to move to the New World. And of course 486 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,280 Speaker 1: she eased people's fears because oh, well, she's in a 487 00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: ball gown or a big, you know, fancy dress, just 488 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,360 Speaker 1: like I am. So clearly she's not that savage. But 489 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: the story does not have a happy ending, as one 490 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: might imagine. In sixteen seventeen, she got very ill on 491 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: the way back to America, and when they basically turned 492 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: around and came back to England to get her help, 493 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,080 Speaker 1: she ended up dying at the age of twenty one. 494 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,520 Speaker 1: And well, she probably died of something that I'm sure 495 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: a lot of people died of at the time, possibly pneumonia, tuberculosis, 496 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 1: or some type of smallpox. Contemporary reports of the day, 497 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: tying in with this whole legend and the whole stereotyping, 498 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: said that she died of a broken heart. Oh goodness, 499 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: it was probably likelier smallpox or just living in uh, 500 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 1: sixteen seventeen, because remember too, by the time Ralph meets 501 00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 1: hero at twenty eight, he's already a widower. Um. But 502 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: it's just incredible that that rather tragic, not tragic to 503 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: the point of say Sarky Bartman, who we talked about 504 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: in our episode on fat Bottomed Girls, um, but still someone, 505 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, this woman of color being shipped off to 506 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: Europe specifically to be used kind of put on display 507 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 1: in a way. And if you look at drawings and 508 00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: depictions of her um from Save the seventeen d eighteen hundreds, 509 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: it is very disnified already because it's her with very 510 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: long lashes, she has um, you know, very she's very attractive. 511 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,920 Speaker 1: She's wearing a ballgown, but also she's wearing a headdress. 512 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: So it's like the melding of these two, these two cultures. Yeah. 513 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: And so of course, now that we have told you 514 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: the true story with a sad ending, let's look back 515 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: at Disney and what the cartoon version did in terms 516 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 1: of furthering stereotypes, because we already mentioned Pocahon's near magical 517 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: powers thanks to her of course, because she's an Indian, 518 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: her super amazing connection with nature, and of course the 519 00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,239 Speaker 1: furthering of the stereotype totally serves to disconnect her from 520 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: the actual human person that we've just told you she was, well, 521 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: and there's the whole thing too with falling in love 522 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 1: with the first white man. She sees that's a common 523 00:34:55,640 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: um trope within a trope, and Perety, who we cited earlier, 524 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: said that quote. Disney has created a marketable new age 525 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: pocahonist to embody our millennial dreams for wholeness and harmony 526 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: while banishing our nightmares of savagery and emptiness. In this regard, 527 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: how Indian women are portrayed in the movies is an 528 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,320 Speaker 1: extension of White America's attempt to cope with a sense 529 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: of cultural guilt. And that also reminds me of that 530 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: paper by Nancy myth Flow, Our Indian Princess, in which 531 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: she interviews a lot of Native American artists, and one 532 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: of whom was talking about how um everyone She's like, 533 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,480 Speaker 1: everyone always wants me to paint the warrior chief on 534 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,880 Speaker 1: a horse, and of course I never am going to 535 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: I'm never going to do that because it's you know, 536 00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: fulfilling this image. Although there are some days when I 537 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,920 Speaker 1: am hungry and I need money, and I consider, you know, 538 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: how how quickly could I paint that horse? How quickly 539 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: could I do that? Because it is all of this. 540 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: It ties into all of this imagery God, and it 541 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,319 Speaker 1: goes back to that Arthur Miller guy who was just 542 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: painting images of the savage Native people's, you know, all 543 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,439 Speaker 1: of them running around without clothes on and being sinful. Well, 544 00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:16,399 Speaker 1: and even farther back to because Sydney, say fifteventy five 545 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,560 Speaker 1: when we first see those, uh, those paintings of the 546 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 1: Indian Queen. And there's a lot of conversation about art 547 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: in this because it is important because kind of like 548 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,880 Speaker 1: from our Women Explorers episode where you have the botanist 549 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 1: sitting there painting these flowers because obviously Google image did 550 00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: not exist, photography what did not exist, and so you 551 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,399 Speaker 1: relied on art to see these these new worlds. Yeah, 552 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: and I mean this ties together so many things we've 553 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: talked about because just like in our Spicy Latina episode 554 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 1: where we talked about what modern media is doing four 555 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 1: stereotypes of Latino women, it's the same thing. It's just 556 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,880 Speaker 1: not it's not primetime TV obviously, but it's paintings and 557 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: lithographs and rawings and journal accounts that are going back 558 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 1: to England to inform people's image and their thought process 559 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: about what the new world was like and so for 560 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,080 Speaker 1: a lot of people, that meant that it was a wild, 561 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: scary place full of savage, sinful people who walked around 562 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: without shirts on. Yeah. And and the unfortunate thing is 563 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: I have noticed that a lot of people, especially like 564 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,800 Speaker 1: a lot of Americans today who are not native American, 565 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,360 Speaker 1: we're not American Indians, often tend to greet these kinds 566 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,479 Speaker 1: of conversations with an eye roll of like, oh, well, 567 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: here we go again about the American Indians. Yeah, we know, 568 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 1: we know, and or whenever, for instance, there are conversations about, hey, 569 00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 1: that that stereotypical kind of racist mascot. We might not 570 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: want to use that anymore. People, You know what, It's 571 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: just a mascot, Come on, um, but it's actually no 572 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: just being wilfully ignorant of history and why it's just 573 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: strange that we are so a lot a lot of 574 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: people are so um intensely defensive of wearing blinders to it, 575 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:17,000 Speaker 1: right exactly. And so that leads us to our next 576 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: point about how these stereotypes affect our kids. Because we 577 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 1: mentioned at the top of the podcast that there are 578 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: very real issues, social issues, economic issues affecting a lot 579 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: of American Indians today, and a lot of times that 580 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 1: starts with children because, uh pe, we already argues that 581 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: this whole stereotyping issue is part of a larger miseducation 582 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: of all of our children, both Native and otherwise, because 583 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,759 Speaker 1: you have non Native children who developed these stereotypes of 584 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: the continents, aboriginal inhabitants um and Native American children being 585 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,759 Speaker 1: presented with confusing reflections and interpretations of their own cultures. 586 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: Because you know how many people are going to go 587 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: out and serve which of the truth in terms of like, 588 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: especially with non Native people. I mean, you're gonna be 589 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,160 Speaker 1: presented with a stereotype or a story about Christopher Columbus 590 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:10,560 Speaker 1: and you're going to be like, well, I don't know 591 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 1: how else to get a different version of things. So cool. Yeah, 592 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:16,799 Speaker 1: And we read a study from two thousand eight in 593 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: the Basic and Applied Social Psychology Journal looking at the 594 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: psychological impacts of American Indian sports mascots on Native American kids, 595 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: and what was interesting about the finding was that the 596 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:36,239 Speaker 1: students themselves reported positive associations with these actual mascots, but 597 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: at the same time reported depressed state self esteem and 598 00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: community worth. Because even though we might see these mascots. 599 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Caroline, let's go ahead and identify the elephant 600 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: in the room, which is the fact that we live 601 00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: in Atlanta and our baseball team, our beloved hometown team, 602 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 1: are the Atlanta Braves, and we have a mascot called 603 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 1: Chief Nakahoma. That's not okay? And do I do the 604 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: tomahawk chops sometimes? Yeah, And that's probably not okay. Um, 605 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,920 Speaker 1: because these might seem like just fun kinds of fandom things, 606 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 1: but they clearly in the process of collapsing these cultures 607 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:20,959 Speaker 1: and limiting the of what kids kind of can see 608 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:27,759 Speaker 1: themselves in leads to that, you know, the lowered self esteem. Yeah. 609 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: And so the writers of that study said that basically 610 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:35,440 Speaker 1: American Indian mascots are harmful because they remind American Indians 611 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: of the limited ways that others see them and in 612 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: this way constrain how they can see themselves. And it's 613 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: in it's things like this that are especially in sidious, 614 00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: especially when you look at girls in particular. Teresa la 615 00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:56,160 Speaker 1: FROMBOS did some research into Native American adolescents and found 616 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:59,800 Speaker 1: that girls were six times more likely to be sexually 617 00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: abused than boys. They're more prone to depression and more 618 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,640 Speaker 1: likely to be suicidal with higher incidents of alcohol abuse, 619 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 1: and she writes the impact of the welfare culture and 620 00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:12,839 Speaker 1: the losses can be identified at the individual level by 621 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: feelings of victimization attributable to racism and stereotyping, value conflicts 622 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:23,439 Speaker 1: or confusion, isolation, and oppression. She writes, unresolved grief over 623 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: losses and effects of ongoing cultural genocide are often presented 624 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: by clients in the form of chronic cycles of crisis 625 00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,440 Speaker 1: and oppression. So what do we do? I mean, that's heavy? 626 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,279 Speaker 1: What do we How do we? Is it possible to 627 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: even fix that? And fix seems like too simple of 628 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:41,879 Speaker 1: a word. Yeah, well, I mean, so we've presented here 629 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 1: that the a lot of the issue is how children 630 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: see themselves and the image that they see reflected back 631 00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: when they turn on the on the television, and so 632 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:54,160 Speaker 1: pee wee reready that educator activist author calls on his 633 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:58,080 Speaker 1: fellow teachers, for instance, to encourage reflective exploration of this 634 00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: and other dimensions of multicultural education. Basically, get in on 635 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,919 Speaker 1: the ground level, show kids that there are so many 636 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:12,520 Speaker 1: multifaceted cultures out there, that it's not just pocahonas and 637 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,719 Speaker 1: the majestic Indian chief well. And this also brings up 638 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,280 Speaker 1: a quote from Wilma Mankiller, who we did a podcast 639 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,800 Speaker 1: on a long time ago. Um, she was the first 640 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: woman to lead the Chaerokee nation, and she said quote 641 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: the appalling lack of accurate information about Indigenous women fuels 642 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,560 Speaker 1: negative stereotypes. Television, film, and print media often portray Indigenous 643 00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: women as a sexual drudges, the squaw, or innocent children 644 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 1: of nature. The power, strength, and complexity of Indigenous women 645 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,680 Speaker 1: are rarely acknowledged or even recognized, probably because of these 646 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,480 Speaker 1: very stereotypes we've been talking about, and I mean so 647 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 1: tying all of the harm that these stereotypes can do 648 00:42:56,280 --> 00:43:00,040 Speaker 1: back to education, I mean, Pewee Aready basically addresses the 649 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: fact that there's so much to learn and to unlearn. 650 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 1: And my thought about it in reading all of these 651 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 1: sources was that it's good to remember that history tends 652 00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:15,440 Speaker 1: to be the stories of the winner, the conqueror the 653 00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: person who won the war. And so even though we 654 00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:25,840 Speaker 1: have things like matrilineal cultures in Native American societies and 655 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: women holding important roles in positions, the European men who 656 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,880 Speaker 1: came over wouldn't have even noticed or cared, or they 657 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:35,839 Speaker 1: wouldn't have wanted it reflected and sent back to their 658 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 1: families in England. And so a lot of the histories 659 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,319 Speaker 1: that we hear focus only on men, and not only 660 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: on just men, but on the noble savage. And so 661 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,200 Speaker 1: the more we can learn about both women in all 662 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:52,480 Speaker 1: of these various cultures, and the more that we can 663 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: focus on the fact that these were real, actual three 664 00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 1: dimensional humans, I think the better will be. Yeah, And 665 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: this is probably with the point where we need to 666 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,719 Speaker 1: do a follow up episode at some point to actually 667 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:10,200 Speaker 1: talk about those women, you know, to highlight Native American 668 00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:15,000 Speaker 1: women both from history and today who have helped shape 669 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: these tribes and these cultures and who are still working 670 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: every day to advocate on behalf of them and on 671 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: behalf of you know, people outside of their tribes as well. 672 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,720 Speaker 1: But this is where we have to wrap up today. 673 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,359 Speaker 1: So really curious to hear from listeners about this. If 674 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,959 Speaker 1: there are any American Indians listening, anyone who has any 675 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 1: insights direct insights into this Indian princess stereotype, we'd love 676 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,839 Speaker 1: to hear from you. Mom Stuff at how stuff works 677 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,120 Speaker 1: dot Com is our email address you can also tweet 678 00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,680 Speaker 1: us at moms a podcast, or messages on Facebook. And 679 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,840 Speaker 1: we've got a couple of messages to share with you 680 00:44:54,080 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: right now. Okay, I have a letter here from Judith 681 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,360 Speaker 1: about our Girl Gangs episode. She says, I really enjoyed it, 682 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: but I had a few thoughts after listening. I really 683 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:11,040 Speaker 1: thought that this topic could have been expanded. I know 684 00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,319 Speaker 1: you guys have constraints sometimes. This is probably a whole 685 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:16,239 Speaker 1: other topic. There are women like Griselle de Blanco, who 686 00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:19,520 Speaker 1: was a famous drug lord of the Median cartel and 687 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,720 Speaker 1: one of the first in the cocaine trade of Miami 688 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,280 Speaker 1: during the seventies. She was also known as the Black 689 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,880 Speaker 1: Widow she killed her ex husband's, the cocaine godmother, and 690 00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,840 Speaker 1: the queen of narco trafficking. If you look at places 691 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: like Baltimore and d C. There's been an uptick in 692 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: recent years in girl gangs, even as recently as this 693 00:45:36,600 --> 00:45:40,200 Speaker 1: past week when headlines were made in Baltimore. Also, many 694 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: gangs that are formed by women are not necessarily for 695 00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:47,400 Speaker 1: offensive means, but for defense, like in the Pink Sorry 696 00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: gang in India, which was created to protect women from 697 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,719 Speaker 1: domestic violence and abuse of all sorts. Or the gang 698 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:56,239 Speaker 1: of women in Mexico that are protecting others from violent cartels, 699 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,040 Speaker 1: and while not necessarily an organized gang, you also have 700 00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:02,399 Speaker 1: Diana the Hunter Nuarez, who again protects victims of rape 701 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 1: and abuse. Like I said, I'm a big fan of 702 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: the podcast. I just thought the topic could have been 703 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:10,279 Speaker 1: fleshed out more along the lines of race, especially in class. 704 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:13,000 Speaker 1: Thanks guys, and thank you Judith. Um. You bring up 705 00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,560 Speaker 1: some really excellent points. Um. You know, we we were 706 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,719 Speaker 1: focusing more on like a specific subset of the whole 707 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,120 Speaker 1: gang issue, but I love your ideas and suggestions, so 708 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:26,040 Speaker 1: thank you. Well. I've got a letter here from Meredith 709 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: with the incredible subject line quote they that die mades 710 00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,200 Speaker 1: will leap apes in Hell? Or why our culture is 711 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:39,200 Speaker 1: anti spinsters? She writes. I teach British literature at a 712 00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: community college in Texas, and while preparing for a class, 713 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: I wrote a poem by Catherine Phillips, a cool lady 714 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,279 Speaker 1: who wrote a married state. Her last line sent me 715 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,279 Speaker 1: on a j store spiral to understand what was going on. 716 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 1: I came across an old article about the quote and 717 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,600 Speaker 1: the subject line of this email and what exactly it meant. 718 00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: It really shed some interesting light on our cultural aversion 719 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,640 Speaker 1: to spinsterhood or virginity in general. The article argues that 720 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:06,160 Speaker 1: it's all because of the English Reformation and the need 721 00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,120 Speaker 1: for the Protestants and Henry the Eighth, as well as 722 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: his children Edward and Elizabeth, to distance the English population 723 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,680 Speaker 1: from quote the Popish practice of celibacy by basically denouncing 724 00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:21,840 Speaker 1: all celibates as heading directly for Hell, and that quote 725 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:25,239 Speaker 1: he who vows chastity is an infidel. At first, it 726 00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: seems to be about both men and women who vow chastity, 727 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: but as so many unpleasant religious and cultural things do, 728 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:33,880 Speaker 1: it eventually shifts to the idea that maids are the 729 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: one who will be doomed to leap apes around Hell. 730 00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:40,480 Speaker 1: As religious celibacy ends in fifteen thirty six, the need 731 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:43,520 Speaker 1: to tar priests with this brush ends, and since male 732 00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:46,759 Speaker 1: virginity is so often seen as a joke and also improbable, 733 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 1: but female virginity is a threat to the order of things, 734 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,200 Speaker 1: it begins to be associated with the social and economic 735 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:57,320 Speaker 1: burden of old maids. Although luckily this saying is now obsolete, 736 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,320 Speaker 1: it seems to reflect and strengthen the fears are culture 737 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,360 Speaker 1: has had for so long of spinsterhood. I find it 738 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 1: frustrating and also fascinating that this symbol virginity can be 739 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,279 Speaker 1: at first upheld as an ideal and then disparage as 740 00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: something foolish and dangerous. Just another example of an impossible 741 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,359 Speaker 1: dichotomy for women do live up to. So thank you 742 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,320 Speaker 1: Meredith for that fascinating insight from and she even included 743 00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: her journal citation from the Journal of American Folklore. And 744 00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,480 Speaker 1: if you have any journal citations to send our way 745 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,879 Speaker 1: or just wanna let us know your thoughts, Mom, stop 746 00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:35,920 Speaker 1: at House of Works dot com is our email address 747 00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: and for links to all of our social media as 748 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: well as all of our blogs, videos and podcasts, including 749 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: this one with our sources so you can learn more, 750 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,120 Speaker 1: perhaps about the true history of Pocahona's. Head on over 751 00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom Never Told You dot com for moralness 752 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,160 Speaker 1: and thousands of other topics. Does it how stuff Works 753 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:05,480 Speaker 1: dot com