Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Master on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: All Right, I gotta just say and I'm gonna put
Speaker 1: it out there, and I say this every time he
Speaker 1: joins us. I could talk to him for a couple
Speaker 1: of hours. We're talking about Scott Galloway. He's author of
Speaker 1: several books, including The Four The Hidden DNA of Amazon, Apple, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Google. He's also wrote wrote Uh, The Algebra of Happiness,
Speaker 1: The Pursuit of Success, Love and What It All Means,
Speaker 1: which is a perfect book for right now. Professor at
Speaker 1: n y use Stern School of Business, he has founded
Speaker 1: multiple tech firms. Great to have back with us and
Speaker 1: talk about his new book, Post Corona From Crisis to Opportunity.
Speaker 1: Scott Galloway, he is with us on the phone from California. Scott,
Speaker 1: So nice to have you here with us. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm great, Carol, but I'm feeling especially good after that introduction.
Speaker 1: I could speak to Carol Master for hours in my car. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hold it to you. Hold you do it
Speaker 1: because I really I do. I feel like you get
Speaker 1: us thinking. And there's so much going on in the world,
Speaker 1: um right now, where so much has happened to us,
Speaker 1: and I do wonder about what happens on the other
Speaker 1: side of it. So first of all, tell us about
Speaker 1: kind of your world right now. I mean you've been teaching,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming, I mean tell us about how you've been
Speaker 1: kind of taking everything in in this world that is well.
Speaker 1: You don't like to say this out loud, that if
Speaker 1: you have, if you've been blessed with with health and
Speaker 1: the people you love are healthy, and you make a
Speaker 1: good living, and you have a nice home, and you're
Speaker 1: a little bit older, and maybe you know, have a
Speaker 1: fortunate to own real estate and owned stocks. The pandemic
Speaker 1: for a lot of those people has meant more time
Speaker 1: with their children, more time with Netflix. You get back
Speaker 1: five to ten hours of commuting. The era of cleaner
Speaker 1: in your stock market portfolio isn't an all time high,
Speaker 1: So you know, that's both a good and a bad thing.
Speaker 1: I would argue that COVID nineteen is more of an
Speaker 1: accelerant than it is a change engine, and some of
Speaker 1: the dysfunctional income and equality attributes of our economy have
Speaker 1: absolutely become the stoke in So I would argue a
Speaker 1: lot of the wealthiest people are living their best lives
Speaker 1: right now, and I think unfortunately it's taken a real
Speaker 1: toll on and maybe a little bit younger, not as
Speaker 1: economically well off, had jobs that were a lower income
Speaker 1: and more susceptible. So this is really a K shape
Speaker 1: recovery on a lot of levels. I've talked with Peter
Speaker 1: atwater Over at William and Mary I totally. I think
Speaker 1: that is how we describe our time. You know in
Speaker 1: your book, Scott, you're right, and forgive me. I hate
Speaker 1: quoting someone's book back to someone the person who wrote it,
Speaker 1: but it's stuck with me. Whether the US is headed
Speaker 1: for a Hunger Games future or something brighter depends on
Speaker 1: which path we choose post Corona. I do feel like
Speaker 1: we're at this interesting time where whether it's the health pandemic,
Speaker 1: whether it's racial inequalities and justices, there's so many things
Speaker 1: that are wrong right now, and I do wonder do
Speaker 1: we learn from it? Can we be smarter and do
Speaker 1: we come out better on the other side? And I
Speaker 1: wonder what do we need to do to come out
Speaker 1: better on the other side? Well, yeah, you know word
Speaker 1: and I hope so, sister. The Chinese term for crisis
Speaker 1: is interpreted as the intersection between opportunity and risk, and
Speaker 1: there's two paths here, and I would argue it needs
Speaker 1: to you know, loosely speaking, the path to a brighter
Speaker 1: future involves, in my view, of re embracing capitalism. But capitalism,
Speaker 1: if you will, is full body contacts certain Darwinian harshness
Speaker 1: for corporations that duke get out, and that competition and
Speaker 1: that violence creates such incredible spoils that we can be
Speaker 1: generous with people. We can afford to pay for social
Speaker 1: security that takes seniors, poverties poverty among seniors from eleven.
Speaker 1: We're gonna pay for medicare. I would argue that this
Speaker 1: crisis illuminates a very unhealthy feature, and that is we've
Speaker 1: decided that companies deserve more generosity and people are less
Speaker 1: protected in some I think the opportunity here is to
Speaker 1: realize we need to protect people and not companies. And
Speaker 1: then the other word I would use as camaraderie. We
Speaker 1: need to rejoin hands with our brothers and sisters in
Speaker 1: Europe and recognize the value the North American Treaty, the
Speaker 1: Paris Accords, the World Health Organization, and just generally have
Speaker 1: more empathy for one another and try and see each
Speaker 1: other as Americans before we see each other as Republicans
Speaker 1: or democrats. Most crises have done that. I worry this crisis.
Speaker 1: It's not obvious that this crisis is bringing us together.
Speaker 1: So re embrace the capitalism and camaraderie are the call
Speaker 1: signs to move to opportunity as opposed to the risk.
Speaker 1: I like this idea of reembrace capitalism because it's just interesting.
Speaker 1: I have conversations with my nieces who are younger, and
Speaker 1: they're like, capitalism is terrible and Carol, and I'm like, well, no,
Speaker 1: it's not. It can be very good. But I do
Speaker 1: wonder how it got to be such a bad thing. Where,
Speaker 1: if anything, you created these incredibly wealthy companies, right, um,
Speaker 1: that sold a lot of stuff, but not everybody got
Speaker 1: to participate in that wealth creation. Well, I would argue
Speaker 1: that your what your nieces are saying, it's not capitalism
Speaker 1: when you have uh, you know, full by contact capitalism
Speaker 1: on the way up, and you privotize the games and
Speaker 1: in the airline industries and example, here's your free cash
Speaker 1: flow to buy back shares. As the senior executives, compensation
Speaker 1: is based on the value of shares and then on
Speaker 1: the way down, you say we're in this together and
Speaker 1: you ask her a bailout. Capitalism on the way up
Speaker 1: and socialism on the way down is coronism. And so
Speaker 1: I think, I think their right to be skeptical of
Speaker 1: capitalism where an older, middle class, mostly white, mostly college
Speaker 1: educated cohort is capturing gains and when they hit a
Speaker 1: tough time, they want to borrow money and time against
Speaker 1: future generations and out of control deficits and claim that
Speaker 1: we're all in this together on the downside. So I
Speaker 1: don't think what we're seeing as capitalism. Capitalism is not
Speaker 1: an organic state. It has to rest on a base
Speaker 1: of empathy and i'll use the R word redistribution of income.
Speaker 1: And we seem to have found incredible empathy and generosity
Speaker 1: for these companies that we idolize and turn into people
Speaker 1: and then seem to be very harsh with people. That's
Speaker 1: not capitalism, that's crony ism. That's the hunger game. So
Speaker 1: what I would argue is they were not witnessing capitalism
Speaker 1: and it's best. Okay, So how do we We've got
Speaker 1: about fifty seconds and then I gotta do some news
Speaker 1: and we'll come back. I told you. I could talk
Speaker 1: to you for hours. Um. So how do we how
Speaker 1: do we get away from this CRONIUSM. I mean, man,
Speaker 1: you look at Congress and that's what it's all about.
Speaker 1: Um and elsewhere? How do we remove it? And just
Speaker 1: got about forty seconds. Uh So on a corporate level,
Speaker 1: I think the fastest thing we could do to reoxygenate
Speaker 1: the economy which to be fund the FTC and the
Speaker 1: d o J and go through every industry, whether it's
Speaker 1: big tech, big agg big pharma, and break them up
Speaker 1: and oxygen eight the economy and give small and medium
Speaker 1: sized companies the same fighting chance. They've always had to
Speaker 1: create two thirds of the jobs, and we've let big
Speaker 1: companies overrun government and overrun small and medium sized companies.
Speaker 1: I think, cross individuals, I think we can need a
Speaker 1: greater sense of empathy and camaraderie for each other, whether
Speaker 1: it's national service where we all serve in the same
Speaker 1: uniform right out of high school. I think gap here
Speaker 1: should become the norm, not the exception, and find common
Speaker 1: cause so we see each other as Americans, as opposed
Speaker 1: to Democrats and Republicans. So, Scott, what I do wonder
Speaker 1: is and one of the things you write about is
Speaker 1: kind of how we have you know, broken this contract,
Speaker 1: this agreement, that these promises that if you worked hard,
Speaker 1: you had talent, you know, anybody could do better and
Speaker 1: and and do well in our society. You know, my
Speaker 1: dad was first generation and he raised seven kids and
Speaker 1: it's pretty remarkable what he was able to do with,
Speaker 1: you know, parents that came over from Europe. So I
Speaker 1: do wonder what's happened? Can we get back that contract? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I think so. I think you zero in on
Speaker 1: what is the ground zero of some of the anger
Speaker 1: or whether it's protests, whether it's a disaffection or lack
Speaker 1: of confidence in capitalism. And that is, for the first
Speaker 1: time in our nation's history, at thirty year old man
Speaker 1: or woman isn't doing as well. It's his or her
Speaker 1: parents were at the age of thirty. And the question is, well,
Speaker 1: why is that? And the good news is is that
Speaker 1: there's no excuse for it because the prosperity we have
Speaker 1: recognized over the last thirty years, whether it's GDP, slow
Speaker 1: but steady growth, market games, you know, the prosperity that
Speaker 1: is there. The problem is we haven't made much progress,
Speaker 1: and that I would argue that our tax structure, our
Speaker 1: education system that's drunk on luxury. It seems like what
Speaker 1: we have said with our priorities, our tax policy, only
Speaker 1: letting in fewer and fewer kids to elite schools, turning
Speaker 1: into a cast system instead of the upput lubricant of
Speaker 1: the middle class. Of fields that we're saying to America
Speaker 1: that our priority is to take the top one percent
Speaker 1: and turn them into billionaires, as opposed to taking the
Speaker 1: bottom and giving them a shot at being in the
Speaker 1: one percent. So we have to, I think, return to
Speaker 1: the notion that we have to fall back in love
Speaker 1: with the unremarkables. If you're born wealthy, if you're incredibly remarkable,
Speaker 1: there's never been a better time to be American. But
Speaker 1: America used to be a place where the unremarkables could
Speaker 1: have remarkable futures. I think it's about education. I think
Speaker 1: it's about tax policy where the top point one percent
Speaker 1: don't pay the lowest tax rate. It's about universities like
Speaker 1: mine falling back in love with unremarkable kids and not
Speaker 1: bragging that we're rejecting our applicants and then forcing middle
Speaker 1: class households to go into debt. We've affected a a
Speaker 1: reallocation or transition a cap at one point six trillion
Speaker 1: dollars in middle class homes the universities. That is morally criminal.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think we have to get back to
Speaker 1: this notion that America needs to fall back in love
Speaker 1: with its unremarkables. The remarkables have killed it. Good for them,
Speaker 1: It's time to focus again on the other I am
Speaker 1: wondering on this Thanksgiving Eve. You know, is there hope
Speaker 1: out there? You know, do you see anything out there
Speaker 1: that does give you some hope that you know, we're
Speaker 1: not going to just keep talking about the problems, but
Speaker 1: we're actually going to have some form of action and
Speaker 1: make a change so that we do embrace the unremarkables
Speaker 1: and that we kind of, you know, raise up those
Speaker 1: that have really been forgotten. I mean, I think about
Speaker 1: the political scene. To me, it makes sense why people
Speaker 1: were angry because there's been a lot of people left
Speaker 1: behind and forgotten. So do you have hope that we
Speaker 1: can that we will fix this and do better? Well,
Speaker 1: as you've probably discovered, Carl, I'm I'm a glass half
Speaker 1: empty kind of guy, but I think there's I think
Speaker 1: there's enormous silver linings and healthcare. The people that have contracted, endured,
Speaker 1: and developed Antibiason the novel coronavirus will have never stepped
Speaker 1: in foot in a doctor's office a much less the hospital.
Speaker 1: We might be able to offer healthcare remotely that brings
Speaker 1: down costs and takes our healthcare system off its heels
Speaker 1: and onto its toes and starts offering great primary care
Speaker 1: at a lower costs. We might, in my industry, be
Speaker 1: able to take advantage of remote remote learning and double
Speaker 1: our admittistrates, double to supply, and take education back to
Speaker 1: where it needs to be with much greater admittistrates and
Speaker 1: much lower costs. We might decide to leave a mission behind.
Speaker 1: We might decide to take that time we spend community
Speaker 1: and spend more time with our families are making money.
Speaker 1: There are absolutely nothing wrong with America that can't be
Speaker 1: picked with what's right with it. And this is not
Speaker 1: the world we live in. This is the world we
Speaker 1: make of it. We're at a critical juncture here and
Speaker 1: it's up to us. Okay, having said that, I'd be
Speaker 1: remiss if I don't at least tap into all of
Speaker 1: the great writings that you've done about kind of our
Speaker 1: text base and those you know companies that we talk
Speaker 1: about ad nauseam, whether it's ads you know, Tesla, whether
Speaker 1: it's Amazon, whether it's Twitter, whether it's Google. Um. What's
Speaker 1: the role that they need to play in all of
Speaker 1: this in your view, I think they're playing that role.
Speaker 1: I think their profits thinking. I don't think they look
Speaker 1: left or right. I think they look down and focus
Speaker 1: on how to increase their earnings. I think the role
Speaker 1: is for government to provide the same level of scrutiny,
Speaker 1: whether it's antitrust or regulation, that we've provided against other
Speaker 1: companies and other industries, and that at some point the
Speaker 1: company becomes so powerful that the best way to oxygenate
Speaker 1: that sector is to do what we did with a
Speaker 1: T and T or the aluminum companies, of the old companies,
Speaker 1: going to break them off and then with and ten years,
Speaker 1: as we've seen with a T and T or the
Speaker 1: spin of PayPal, those companies are worth exponentially more So.
Speaker 1: I think it's regulators that have to step in and say,
Speaker 1: all right, congratulations. Any trust is in a punishment, it's
Speaker 1: a reward that you have become. You are so good,
Speaker 1: you are now performing a fantaside on small companies prematurely
Speaker 1: euthanizing big companies which tend to be better employers of
Speaker 1: their taxpayers. We're going to break you up, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna unleas incredible innovation. And if you want to see
Speaker 1: the markets go to new highs, break these companies up.
Speaker 1: We need to go through big tech, big form a
Speaker 1: big act and oxygenate the marketplace with any trust. Well,
Speaker 1: I have to say, you always leave us with lots
Speaker 1: of things to think about. And you know your book,
Speaker 1: you know, Ends with America isn't what it is but
Speaker 1: what we make of it. I mean, we as individuals
Speaker 1: also have a role right in all of this. Just quickly,
Speaker 1: you know, be the be the man or the woman
Speaker 1: your kids think you are. U. This is an extraordinary
Speaker 1: time to reach out to people. People remember how you
Speaker 1: behave in a crisis. People will remember how you behave
Speaker 1: in this crisis. Make sure the people in your circle
Speaker 1: are healthy and happy. And then if you have, if
Speaker 1: you're blessed, reach out to people who will never know
Speaker 1: your name. This is that's Americans are the most generous
Speaker 1: people in the world. Let's let's live up to that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the sense of community has never been as important. He's
Speaker 1: got Thank you so much. Have a safe um and
Speaker 1: good holiday, Happy Thanksgiving and our thanks to Scott Galloway.
Speaker 1: He does always leave us with so much to think about,
Speaker 1: certainly for me, Professor at n y eu Stern School
Speaker 1: of Business. His new book post Corona From Crisis to Opportunity.
Speaker 1: Check it out, check out to the Algebra of Happiness.
Speaker 1: Whenever I'm a little lost to I go back and
Speaker 1: check it out.