1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry and 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson. We talked about jack o' lanterns 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: this week. We did, we did. We didn't say it 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: at the top of the show, but I'm like, I 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: should have said, that's not going to be an exhaustive 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: history of jack lanyards because there are many. I mean, 8 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: you could do an episode just on like Victorian Halloween 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: decorations that ye depict them in scary and beautiful ways. 10 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: But I have a list of things that I wanted 11 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: to mention. Okay, I did not realize until I was 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: an adult, like a grown grown almost. I think it 13 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: was right before I got married person adult, that a 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: lot of people did not grow up carving pumpkins. And 15 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: at the time, I thought, like, you have been deprived 16 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: of your childhood. What has happened? Because there was there 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: was no question. Now, I, upon reflection, don't remember if 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: this was something initiated by my parents or me. But 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 1: I carved a pumpkin. Yeah, we usually carved a pumpkin. 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 1: There's only been a couple times that I've carved a 21 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:23,559 Speaker 1: pumpkin like as an adult. I did. However, the first 22 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: Halloween of covid Oh, some friends and I all carved turnips. 23 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 1: I am showing Holly a picture of my carved turnip. 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: I actually feel like I took two. I did two 25 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: of them, but only one of them turned out. I 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: think I only have one picture of one of them 27 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: saved on my phone. And I carved like it. It's 28 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: too small to like carve the top out, so I 29 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: just I carved the bottom out and put it over 30 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: a little tea light. Yeah, like a little battery of 31 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: which is really the smart way anyway, because yeah, pulling 32 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: even with a big pumpkin, pulling open the top and 33 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: reach your hand in if you have a live candle. Sure, 34 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: those people today I have noticed suggest carving using a 35 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 1: instead of a lid, using a bottom base, cutting the 36 00:02:10,200 --> 00:02:13,120 Speaker 1: bottom out, and making that though I have very strong 37 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: feelings and opinions about the proper ways to carve pumpkins, Okay, 38 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 1: I am one of those people that does not like 39 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: to cut all the way through because I feel like 40 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: if you leave some flesh, you get a lot more 41 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: options for detailing and shading. And it's to the point 42 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: where when I see one that's carved all the way through, 43 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, but if you do it that way, 44 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: do it that way. I'm just I have my own 45 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: picky business. I did, however, continue to wonder for a while, 46 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: why didn't everybody grow up in I thought body carved pumpkins? 47 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: And then while I was researching this episode, I may 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: have accidentally stumbled onto insight. Oh yeah, because I found 49 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: this is in my least favorite genre of article. But 50 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: I found a series of presumable intended to be comedic 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: articles about how much dads hated to carve pumpkins and 52 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: how it was this horrible, messy chore, which it is messy, 53 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: but you know, it just was one of those things 54 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: where it was like the same way that people like 55 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: to complain about their spouses or their kids does not 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: appeal to me. Where it was like, oh, my dumb 57 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: kids gotta have a pumpkin here I am carving, and 58 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: I'm like, that is not funny to me. But if 59 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: there was this culture, this particularly in the late fifties 60 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 1: up through the sixties, I kept finding these allegedly funny 61 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: stories about beleaguered husbands and fathers having to carve pumpkins. 62 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: I was like, there may have been right about the 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: time our parents were coming of age as adults, where 64 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: they had been indoctrinated into this idea that pumpkin carving 65 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: was arduous and unfun, which might be why a lot 66 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: of our friends didn't do it growing up, but I 67 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: sure did. I haven't done it as an adult because, uh, 68 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: you gotta get the pumpkins, yes, and then you gotta 69 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: then you gotta carve the pumpkin, and then you gotta 70 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: dispose of the pumpkin. And like we don't currently have 71 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: a composter or anything. Our city does have a day 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: of like the pickup for compost of pumpkins, because that 73 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 1: is a lot of food waste to just like put out. 74 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: But then also the last several years of my life 75 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: I have been living in cities, and putting a cut 76 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 1: vegetable onto your stoop contributes to the attracting of rodents 77 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: a lot of the time. So yeah, you weren't gonna 78 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: like my solve then for throwing away pumpkins, which is 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: to feed it to the rodents, like cut it up 80 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: and put it out on your deck or your lawn 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: for birds and whatever else to get. Yeah, yeah, I've 82 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: just I've lived in a couple of neighborhoods that are 83 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: like really densely populated and have in some cases like 84 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: struggled with rodent control, and so that makes a little trickier. Yeah, 85 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: I sure do love pumpkin everything. I'm that person. I 86 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: am that basic, basic gal who wants pumpkin everything all 87 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: year round. I know it's not always pumpkin in the 88 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: pumpkin puree, and sometimes there are other squashes, but I 89 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: don't care. I will open a can and eat it 90 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: right out of the can with the spoon. I love 91 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 1: that stuff. Nice. Throw like the tiniest scant little scattering 92 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: of sugar and cinnamon on that, and I'll eat it 93 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: for days. I'm getting all of my vitamin A in 94 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: the fall. I love pumpkin flavored everything, fake and otherwise. 95 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: There was another thing that I discovered while I was 96 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: doing the research for this that tickled me utterly. Okay, 97 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: maybe this is something other people have known about and done. 98 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,880 Speaker 1: I had never seen or heard about it before, and 99 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: it kind of cracked me up. There seems to have 100 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: been in the forties and fifties this popular style of 101 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: party to have called a birthday party. But it was 102 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: not like Happy Birthday, Tracy, this is your party. It 103 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: was like a party that was for everyone, and it 104 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: had twelve tables, each themed to a month of the year. 105 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: And when you got to the party, you were supposed 106 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: to sit at the appropriate table, huh, which sounds sort 107 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: of cute. And then I found this very very funny 108 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: article in let me make sure I know where this 109 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 1: is from the Daily American of Somerset, Pennsylvania. That is 110 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: a story about something that happened at one of these parties, 111 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: and it's very charming, and it's under the subheader. Attorney 112 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: Clarence Shaver sat down at a table laden with pumpkins 113 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 1: at the Church of the Brethren birthday dinner last night 114 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: to observe his October birthday. To his amazement, he found 115 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: he was in error and that pumpkins can be symbolic 116 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: of Thanksgiving and harvest when they don't have jack o 117 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: lantern faces. So he politely excused himself and sought the 118 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: table bearing the symbols of October. Okay, And that's from 119 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,119 Speaker 1: a nineteen forty five February paper, which I just thought 120 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: was hilarious. Like that, it was enough of a startle that. 121 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: He was like, oh, and then it made the paper somehow, 122 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: and I'm like, did he tell the paper? Did he? 123 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: That is quite a my little faux pod have written 124 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 1: up in the paper, right, I mean to me, it's hilarious. 125 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: I get it, but like, what an odd thing to 126 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: make the paper. I sat at their own table at 127 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: the birthday party, like should I host a birthday party? 128 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: And then I'm like, where would I find twelve tables? 129 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: So maybe maybe in the future, somewhere else that is 130 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: not my house, because that seems like a lot. It 131 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: does seem like a lot, unless they're very tiny tables. 132 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: Like maybe you could do little tiny cocktail tables and 133 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: do temp ones and see I'm already planning, or maybe 134 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 1: in the yard. Oh I love a party anyway. I'm 135 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: so excited for jacka Lantern season. Do you have feelings 136 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 1: about the foam based faux pumpkins and carving them? Do 137 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: you ever carve those? I've never tried that. Oh. I 138 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: love it because if you have a really good design, 139 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: you can keep it and use it over and over 140 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,439 Speaker 1: and over, which I love. Oh yeah, And I also 141 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: like those those are great for on the porch because 142 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: they will not attract rodents, and they're very handy. You 143 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: should always, of course, not use flame in them, but 144 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: an artificial candle because you don't want to melt any 145 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: plastic and stuff. I'm imagining melting burning plastic. That's never 146 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:20,400 Speaker 1: a good thing, never a good thing. So we talked 147 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: about patients Worth and Pearl Curran this week we did. 148 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: This is when I've been circling for a minute. I mean, 149 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: it definitely went on my list a year ago. I 150 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: had heard of them before that, but that was when 151 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: I was really like, oh, yeah, that's gonna happen. This 152 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: whole thing is so fascinating to me. Yeah, I don't 153 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: think I had heard about it at all, but I agree. 154 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: There are still people, you know, trying to decide what 155 00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: they think was going on with Pearl Curran. We'll never know. 156 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: I want to mention briefly this thing that utterly fascinated 157 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: me about her use okay, because you know, her mom 158 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: clearly had some struggles and when she would go through 159 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: a rough period, Pearl would get sent to live with 160 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: another relative for a little while, which you know, is 161 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 1: a perfectly valid solution and was very very common then 162 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: and still goes on a lot now. But what struck 163 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: me as interesting is that part of what is was 164 00:10:21,679 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: and again this is all based on like other people's recollections, 165 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: so just know that I'm this is all speculative. Right. 166 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: What was bothering Mary so much about her life and 167 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: leaving her feelings so nervous all the time was that 168 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: they were moving around constantly and didn't have consistency, and 169 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: like money was often a little bit tight. And then 170 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: I'm like and unfortunately, like this is an example of 171 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: how like a problem like that will replicate through a family, 172 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,079 Speaker 1: because the solution was then to move Pearl around constantly 173 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: and give her very little consistency. And I'm like, yeah, 174 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: that's a problem with how this works. Yeah, I'm so 175 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 1: fascinated by that that, Like I'm always like, did anybody 176 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 1: connect those dots that like maybe she had some sort 177 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: of episode when she was a teenager because she was 178 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: living essentially the same problems that her mother was experiencing 179 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,320 Speaker 1: that had triggered her his shoes And I don't know 180 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: if anybody ever did just a food for thought kind 181 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: of thing there. Yeah, I'll never ever be able to 182 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: unravel that particular problem. Yeah, I mean, listen, I have 183 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,600 Speaker 1: often said, I am as skeptical as they come. I 184 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: do not believe in ghosts. Yeah, but we talked in 185 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: the weed Aboard episode about how like it's not. And 186 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: I never quite got the sense that many people were 187 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: giving a ton of credit to this possibility in her time, 188 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: although certainly there have been psychologists since then that have 189 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: the idea that Pearl may very well have believe like 190 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: it was not a conscious effort on her part to 191 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: be manifesting something that wasn't real. She may have truly 192 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: believed in patience and it was just a part of 193 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: her brain going no, remember we read that book when 194 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: we were seventeen, and we'll just put that back in 195 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: an out into the world in a new way, like 196 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: we don't, we have no idea. There's a lot of 197 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: I will say that very few of the psychological analyzes 198 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: of her seem like they want to vilify her as 199 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: the lady making something up, but they do often veer 200 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 1: off into more like she had serious mental problems, And 201 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, right, she just kind of like a person 202 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: who had given into the power of suggestion on a 203 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: level that didn't seem to hinder her day to day life. 204 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: As pearl current in any way, which makes it a 205 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: whole other thing to think about. So one of the 206 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: things that struck me was like the rate at which 207 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: she was reportedly writing so fast, really fast and really 208 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 1: fast if it was coming from being spelled out letter 209 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: by letter on a wija board. Like I kind of 210 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: was trying to do mental math of like how fast 211 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: would that Planchette have to be moving if that was 212 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: really like how fast she was writing, And then like 213 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: that led me to mental questions of like, Okay, let's 214 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: just say hypothetically that what is really going on here 215 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:35,720 Speaker 1: is that she's actually pretty good at just like free 216 00:13:35,760 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: writing creative work, right, which there are people, yeah, but 217 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: that can just kind of churn out a free written 218 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: draft of something. So it's like if even if there's 219 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:52,440 Speaker 1: another person sitting with her at at the wigiboard, like, 220 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: is she really hitting all of these letters or is 221 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: it more that she's kind of dictating? And like, I 222 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 1: don't know, it just seems so fast to me to 223 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: be me too. Now. I do have friends that are 224 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: writers that will say like they bang out their first 225 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: draft in a couple days, and I believe people can 226 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: do it. But the other thing is that that's usually 227 00:14:16,559 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: a draft. Well, I've done National Novel Writing Month multiple times, 228 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: which is fifty thousand words in a month, and I 229 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: usually did that with a period of hours per day. 230 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: But I was also typing. I was typing on a computer, 231 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,640 Speaker 1: which I do a million times faster than I write 232 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: with a device. So I'm like, were you're writing out 233 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: all these with somebody writing out all these words? Were 234 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: they using shorthand? I just have various questions. I have 235 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: some answers to you, okay, because I know that they 236 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: never use shorthand because they were worried about misinterpreting it 237 00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: and not getting Patience's exact odd dialect if they did that. 238 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,720 Speaker 1: So I know they weren't using shorthand. Like I said, 239 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: John was doing it. After he died, there wasn't really 240 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: anybody else that picked it up the way that he 241 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: had done. So after nineteen twenty two, then it's a 242 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: little more open to interpretation. I think, like what actually happened. 243 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 1: He may have just been extraordinarily good at it, But yeah, 244 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: twenty five hundred words to thirty five hundred words in 245 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: ninety minutes to two hours is a lot that's hand cramped. 246 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: Territory for sure. So yeah, I don't don't know, and 247 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: he wrote down everything that happened in addition to that, 248 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: since she would also be like, I would like to 249 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: comment on the weather or that person over there that's 250 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: here visiting, because she would Apparently I didn't hear a lot. 251 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 1: I didn't find a lot of instances or evidence of it, 252 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 1: but she was said to be insightful. One of the 253 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:59,320 Speaker 1: things that made people believe patients was real was that 254 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 1: she would times say things that indicated she knew personal 255 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: details about people in the room that Pearl could not 256 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: have known. Whether that's true or not, I don't know, 257 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: but yes, And so John is madly writing all of 258 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: this out, well at all plays out. Here's the thing. 259 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: I think Rosa Alvaro was a confession. Yeah, but I 260 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: mean it does seem real easy to interpret it that way. Yeah, 261 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: And that was so that came out in nineteen nineteen, 262 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: so it was six years after all of this started. 263 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: And that seems like about I don't know if the 264 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 1: right amount of time is the right phrasing, but I 265 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 1: could see that as being a length of time where 266 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,600 Speaker 1: she was reaching the point of like, I don't know 267 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: if I can keep this going she did after that, 268 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: but that's probably also in formed by financial need, whereas 269 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: at that point she may have just wanted to be 270 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: Like she was said to have been very excited when 271 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: it got sold for a movie option, and I think 272 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: she made like fifteen hundred dollars off of it, but 273 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,439 Speaker 1: she didn't. It didn't She wasn't able to parlay that 274 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: into an ongoing Pearl current writing career because nobody seemed 275 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: very interested in more of her work. They wanted more 276 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: Patience Patience. Patience is Victorian novel. It's very funny to me. 277 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 1: I hope that doesn't sound disrespectful, but I think it's hilarious. 278 00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you might have misplayed your hand here. 279 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: Here's the other thing that people have often mentioned in 280 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: the discussion of it. We didn't really dig into all 281 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: of the debates over her work that were going on, 282 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: but one of the things that people who believed the 283 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,439 Speaker 1: whole thing was real would often say, like, there is 284 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: literally no way that Pearl Curran could be preparing to 285 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,600 Speaker 1: do this, Like even if she was like studying up 286 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: in the day before people came over, there's no way 287 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: somebody could pull this off. But like we know that 288 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: there are people who have, you know, essentially photographic recall 289 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: of certain specific things, like it's entirely possible that somebody 290 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 1: could do it. And I feel like part of why 291 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: I really dislike most of the cases that are made 292 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: suggesting it is real. We touched on in the show 293 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: are that they are all very dismissive of Pearl Curran 294 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 1: and kind of talk about her as though she's some 295 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: sort of simpleton that could never pull this off. She 296 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: could not have written these words. Well, she did, so 297 00:18:52,560 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: shush yeah. Well, and especially because she did also write 298 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: a short story on her own, like she obviously could 299 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: write a short story that was good enough that people 300 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: wanted to adapt it into film. But again, that one 301 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 1: thing seems to like kind of vanish in the mist. 302 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: I think it didn't work into anybody's story of what 303 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: they thought was going on, so everybody kind of disregarded it. 304 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: They're like, ah, too confusing, because if it did, even 305 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: for the people that it would have proven. I think 306 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,679 Speaker 1: so many people were invested in the idea that it 307 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: was a mental illness of some kind manifesting that they 308 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: didn't want They at that point did not want to 309 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: be like, oh, she was just a very very clever 310 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 1: woman who managed to keep this thing going for a 311 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: shocking amount of time. I mean, by the time she died, 312 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: she was still channeling patients and it was twenty four 313 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 1: years into their relationship together. For lack of a better phrase, 314 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: just fascinating. Fascinating anyway, Pearl current. The other thing that 315 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: I think is proof positive that the patient's worths could 316 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: not have been real. She was a chatty Chatterson, and 317 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: if she really was a spirit that could channel to people, 318 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: she would have showed up again in the last hundred 319 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: years to have something else to say. There's no way 320 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: she could have kept it shut for one hundred years. 321 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: There's just I don't know how much more specific detail 322 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 1: we know about her, like purported biography, beyond what we 323 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: said in the little, very little, but it like it. 324 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: It has some tropes, oh very much so like very 325 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,959 Speaker 1: much so like is when I read just like the 326 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 1: first paragraph of the outline, I was like, this reads 327 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: like a made up, fanciful story by a white person. 328 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah. I mean she they had asked 329 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: her some other questions Emily and Pearl when she had 330 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: first appeared, and it was like, where are you from 331 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: and they were very cagey answers, like far away across 332 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 1: the sea. And eventually they got some additional info and 333 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 1: Casper Yost, because he really was trying to track it down, 334 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 1: identified the town he thought made the most sense, and 335 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: like we mentioned briefly in the show, he went to 336 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: England and tried to like find her in place and 337 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: time and couldn't find anything. Really, So, yeah, that's a 338 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 1: made up entity that doesn't conveniently didn't have any family 339 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: to connect her to, conveniently died at the hands of 340 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: indigenous people and was not given any kind of proper burial. 341 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: It sounds like conveniently, it's all very convenient. Yeah, And 342 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: as you said, Tropius, heck yeah, obviously they're really were colonists. 343 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: Obviously there really were people who were killed in various conflicts. 344 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: But like it just it fits so many hallmarks of 345 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: what a person might make up as their purported spiritual guide. Yeah, 346 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: oh yeah, Like it went through the checklist like of 347 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: difficult to trace, stays just nebulous enough, gives the details 348 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 1: that people would be like I've heard of that happening before. Then, 349 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: I hope none of you are haunted by ghosts. Or 350 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: spirits this weekend or ever unless you want to be 351 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, I always say don't believe in ghosts, but 352 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: if one showed up, I'd be into it. So Baba Duke, 353 00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: come to my house. We hope that if you have 354 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: some downtime this weekend, that you get to use it 355 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: doing whatever makes you happiest. And if you don't have downtime, 356 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: I still hope you sneak some happiness in there. We 357 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: will be right back here tomorrow with a classic Episoddin 358 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: then on Monday with something brand new for the Halloween season. 359 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: Stuff You Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. 360 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 361 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.