1 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties, weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: Shirley Hamper and executive editor of Music. Universal Music Group 4 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,440 Speaker 1: is the world's biggest music company and home to dozens 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: of labels spanning every genre from pop to hip hop, 6 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: rock to R and B, country to Latin and niche 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 1: styles like Christian, classical and jazz. To run one of 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: these companies is to associate with top talent household names 9 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: like Taylor Swift, Billie Eilish Drake and Lady Gaga, and 10 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: the pressure to perform is equally massive, which makes a 11 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: label like Verve, which launched in the nineteen fifties with 12 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: the music of Ella Fitzgerald and whose current roster includes 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: left of center signings like Tank in the Bengas, Kurt 14 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: Vile and a Rouge tab a sort of refuge in 15 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: a giant commercial enterprise. But Verv's value to UMG is significant, 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: and this is not lost on Sir Lucian Grange, the 17 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO of the company. It's given the label 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 1: the leeway to invest in traditional artist development. Was that 19 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: mean for some familiar contexts. It's like letting an artist 20 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: like Bruce Springsteen put out two albums achieving less than 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: stellar sales so that he can reach a born to 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:33,400 Speaker 1: run his third and career launching release. VERV has its 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 1: own success stories to follow this trajectory, like John Battist, 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: the former Stephen Colbert bandleader and master musician from New 25 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: Orleans whose We Are one Album of the Year at 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty two Grammys. Verve artists did well at 27 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: this year's Grammy Awards, too, which took place on February fifth. 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: That night, Samara Joy, a twenty three year old jazz 29 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: singer from the Bronx, one Best New Artist, and Madison 30 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: Cunningham took home Best Folk Album. What's the label doing right? 31 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: That was one of the questions I posed to Jamie Krenz, 32 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: president of the Verve Impulse and Verve Forecast Imprints and 33 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: a twenty five year veteran of the company. Jamie was 34 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: named president in twenty nineteen after serving as an international 35 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: marketing executive. He follows in the footsteps of several notable 36 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: label heads in Verve's recent past, including David Foster, the 37 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: producer who saw massive Soft Rock and pop hits with 38 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: Chicago Selene Dion and Whitney Houston and Danny Bennett, son 39 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 1: of iconic singer Tony Bennett. Jazz remains a core genre 40 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: of Verve, where it's catalog artists also include Billy Holliday 41 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: and Louis Armstrong, but it's worth remembering that the label 42 00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: also released seminal and groundbreaking work by the likes of 43 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: Nina Simone, Frank Zappa, and The Velvet Underground. I talked 44 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: to Jamie Krenz about where Verve sits in the greater 45 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: music ecosystem today, and yes, that does include TikTok as 46 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: well as its cultural significance and decades long dedication to 47 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: a and R or artisan repertoire. The tip of the spear, 48 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: Jamie says, when it comes to finding and developing artists, 49 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: both historically and today. Join us after the break. Welcome 50 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:34,119 Speaker 1: back to strictly business. Here's my conversation with VERVS Jamie Krentz. 51 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: I will just start by welcoming you, Jamie too, strictly business. 52 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me so Verve Impulse and Verve Forecast. 53 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: These are the labels under your purview. Of course, Verve 54 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: is just like such an iconic brand in music going 55 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: back to the fifties. So Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday, Herbie Hancock, 56 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 1: these are some of the names are affiliated with VERVE, 57 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: and today it still seems like it has those roots, 58 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: but the roster is so diverse. I just want to 59 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: read off some of your artists, John Batiste, a Rouge, Aftab, 60 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: Kurt Vile, Max Richter, Madison Cunningham, who's just an amazing 61 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: new artist who I love, Samara Joy Best New Artist 62 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: winner at the Grammys, which just happened. So I wanted 63 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 1: to just start by asking, in your position as president 64 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 1: of these labels, what is the through line between today's 65 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: roster and the roots of VERVE The very like mission 66 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 1: statement of Verve, We're very focused on a couple of things. 67 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: Number One, we want to work with timeless artists. I 68 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 1: think if you tried to draw a through line from 69 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 1: Ella Fitzgerald, for whom VERV was founded in the fifties, 70 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: through to artists of today, whether that's Tanking, the Bengas, 71 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: or Madison or a Rouge or anybody like that, including 72 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: everybody else along the way from the Velvet Underground to 73 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: Nina Simone, Frank Zappa, None of those artists were chasing trends. 74 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: All of those artists made recordings that I believe sound 75 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: as relevant today as they might have whether they were 76 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:13,679 Speaker 1: recorded two years ago or fifty years ago. And that's 77 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: the lens that we look at our roster through, especially 78 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 1: when we're talking to potential signings. That's what we look for, 79 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: is this artist gonna make sense? Here is music of integrity, 80 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: and our artists are not constructs. Universal is the biggest 81 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: of the major music companies and has all these incredible 82 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: labels Interscope, Republic, Island, def Jam. They don't need us 83 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: to compete with them for that. They're doing incredibly well 84 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: at the top of the pop charts and the top 85 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: of the hip hop charts. And our mission is a 86 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: bit different, and it is, as you said, kind of 87 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: a continuum where you look at the history of the label. 88 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: Really proud obviously for the legacy of these labels, whether 89 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: it's Verve, Proper or Forecast or Impulse, but we don't 90 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 1: want to just be a legacy label. The last couple 91 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: of years, we've really been focused on making sure our 92 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: frontline roster is resonating for people and we're helping these 93 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 1: artists find a wider audience. Also trying to remind people 94 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: that Verve was not only a jazz label, even in 95 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: the sixties, you know, when you had the Velvet Underground 96 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: and Richie Havens and Frank Zappa. The label's always been 97 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: the home for eclectic talent. And really I'm not doing 98 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: anything different than Tom Wilson and Creed Taylor and Norman Grands, 99 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:29,679 Speaker 1: which is kind of continuing that tradition, but in this era. 100 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: And so that's the through line. Really, it's artists that 101 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: have a point of view and are making the music 102 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: they want to make. It's not about fitting into a 103 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: template of what will work right now. I mean, it 104 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: must be nice to have that mandate, that sort of 105 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: liberation of we want you to build something here. I mean, 106 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: did that come from Lucian? I know Verve has been 107 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: through a number of changes in its structure, both at 108 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:57,479 Speaker 1: UMG and internally. Definitely a lot of support from Lucian 109 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: and also from Michelle Anthony Andrew kron Field, some of 110 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: the most senior executives at Universal. I was lucky, you know, 111 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: I've been at Verve in a various capacities since nineteen 112 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: ninety eight, so I was here for some of those 113 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: iterations that you're referring to, and I had the benefit 114 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 1: I think of a some really good work by my predecessors. 115 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: Some of the artists that we mentioned were actually signed. 116 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: I didn't sign Diana Crawl, but I'm so glad she's 117 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: still here. But equally it was the vision I think 118 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: of people like Lucian and Michelle that Verve needs to exist. 119 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, surely we still have to make 120 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: our numbers. There is a lot of scrutiny. We're running 121 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: a business, but I think there's been an acknowledgement that 122 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: in the modern space, a label like this can do both. 123 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: You can still be commercially successful, you can win Grammys, 124 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: and you can do those things while still having the 125 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: lane that we occupy. So the support's been really strong. 126 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: We spend a lot of time with those executives. We 127 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 1: get a lot of good guidance from them, but they 128 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: also have let us kind of chart our own path, 129 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: especially over the last three years. That's been a particularly 130 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: strong period for us, certainly a Grammys and with some 131 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: commercial success, but I think also just the evolution of 132 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: this team, we've sort of rebuilt what the label itself 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: looks like, and who works here and what their skill 134 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: sets are. There's forty five people here that have had 135 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: to figure out how do you deal with TikTok for 136 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: this kind of music? How do you deal with influencer campaigns? 137 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: How do we navigate the ever changing landscape of streaming. 138 00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: So there are people here who may love music from 139 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: all eras, but they have a decidedly contemporary awareness of 140 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: how music's consumed now. Yeah, so how do you deal 141 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 1: with TikTok? How is the stream big looking? I mean, 142 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: streaming is our biggest challenge. Our music doesn't stream at 143 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: the scale that we would like it too. And some 144 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: of that systemic, I mean some of it is that 145 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,439 Speaker 1: this streaming, as we know, favors shorter, punchier, accessible music 146 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:50,439 Speaker 1: that you want to listen to over and over again, 147 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: and that may not be an avant garde jazz track. Equally, 148 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: I think it's an area of huge opportunity for us. 149 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 1: What we're trying to do is work as closely as 150 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: we can the DSPs to help make a better ecosystem 151 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: within their companies and sort of say clearly there's a 152 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: customer for this. When you win Best New Artist or 153 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: you have the year that John Batiste did. Clearly people 154 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: are interested. It's not just the Grammy voters, but are 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: there playlists you know that suit these kinds of artists 156 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: and are you driving people to those? We get a 157 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: lot of great support, but could there be more? And 158 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: what can we be doing better is a label to 159 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,439 Speaker 1: make their job easier. I mean, these people are ingesting 160 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: anywhere between sixty to one hundred thousand tracks a day. 161 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 1: How do you cut through that, and particularly how do 162 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: you cut through that if you're making music that doesn't 163 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: just reside, say in today's top hits. We love it 164 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: when our music ends up there, but you know, one 165 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: of the things we do is we try to go 166 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: to them and say, why don't you take some chances? 167 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: Why don't you put a rouge aftab in a playlist 168 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: that isn't just world music? Why don't you put her 169 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:53,200 Speaker 1: in one of these relaxing transcendental meditation playlist. We're not 170 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: asking for favors. We're just saying give it a chance, 171 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: and then it's sort of Darwini and the algorithm will 172 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 1: kick you out if the music doesn't perform. So we're 173 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: not asking for anything more than an open mind to 174 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: put this music in places where maybe it isn't today. 175 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: So you mentioned the Grammys. You've had three Best New 176 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 1: Artist nominees. Yeah, Tanking the Benga's a Rouge and Samara 177 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: his best year. Obviously, John Batiste was a huge winner 178 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. He won Album of the Year. 179 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: He won five out of his eleven nominations. I mean, 180 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: he really was the big Grammy winner of that night. 181 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: Madison Cunningham took home Best Folk Album this year. I 182 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: would almost say that you've got the Grammy's figured out. 183 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: What are you guys doing right? Honestly, I think some 184 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: of it is born at the right time. I think 185 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: there have been some changes in the Academy and the 186 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: voting process which has benefited what I said earlier, artists 187 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: of integrity. I also think that these artists make really 188 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: dynamic work that doesn't always get the recognition it deserves commercially, 189 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: but it does resonate for the people doing the nominating 190 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 1: and also we really try to market this music effectively. 191 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,199 Speaker 1: When John turned in the album that became We Are, 192 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: the album that won all those Grammys, it was so 193 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,160 Speaker 1: clearly unlike anything else out there, and it was kind 194 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: of the record that I think people who were aware 195 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: of him were waiting for him to make. Some people 196 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: think that that was John's first record for Verve, but 197 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: it was actually his fourth record, and there was no 198 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: doubt that he's a great jazz musician and a great 199 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: writer and singer and pianist. But this was actually in 200 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: his mind, this was the record he'd kind of his 201 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: whole life, had been wanting to make that was soul 202 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: and pop, an R and B and everything and kind 203 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 1: of amalgamated. And I think that that was the kind 204 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: of record that the Grammys in a way should be for. 205 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: It's something that it does deserve songwriting recognition. He's great 206 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: with visuals. It deserved a Video Award, which it got. 207 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: The writing was really really intelligent. He's an excellent composer, 208 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: and it was so good that he was able to 209 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: then transcend people was saying, oh, the guy from Colbert. 210 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: He'd also won an Oscar earlier in the year, which 211 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: he can't take any credit for that, but it didn't 212 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: hurt his profile. But I think the overarching answer to 213 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: your question is that artist development is still relevant, and 214 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: all of these artists are developing. I don't think that 215 00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: was John's best work. He's still a young artist, and 216 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: Samara is twenty three years old and Madison this is 217 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: just her second record. So the artists that are getting 218 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: this recognition, I think part of it is because they're 219 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: in a place that can allow them to evolve and 220 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: nurture it. We have the resources, whether it's the financial 221 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,200 Speaker 1: resources or the global marketing, to make sure that we're 222 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: helping them and amplifying what they do, but also giving 223 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: them room to continue to grow with the kind of 224 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,199 Speaker 1: records they make. Rouge is putting a record out in 225 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks that's a trio record with some 226 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: great jazz musicians. She isn't just repeating what she's done. 227 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: She wants the ability to show other sides. And certainly 228 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: John is the same. And who knows where Samara will be. 229 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: I definitely think Madison is a great example of artist 230 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: development at work. It's amazing to watch her develop in 231 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: real time. I feel the same way. When we met Madison, 232 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: she was in her early early twenties, and she grew 233 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 1: up in a very religious household in Orange County and 234 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: had just sort of moved to LA and was meeting 235 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: lots of people and she played in Andrew Bird's band, 236 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: and the first record she made was great, and then 237 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: when it was time to make the second record, we 238 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 1: had some very deep conversations about collaborators and co writing 239 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:26,199 Speaker 1: and trying different producers, and she didn't do the easiest thing. 240 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: The easiest thing would have been to keep doing what 241 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: she was doing. It's a great story of artist development, 242 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: but it's equally a story of an artist who was 243 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: open to some suggestions, and not every artist is, but 244 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: she was, to her credit and her team, and they 245 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: were willing to take some chances. That's why I was 246 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: really pleased for her when she won the Folk Grammy, 247 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: because I think it was affirming to her that the 248 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: risk had paid off. And she's also worked. She tours 249 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: constantly and she's just out there and it's nice to 250 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 1: see that. Some people would call that old school. I 251 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: just think it's hard work. Honestly, about Samara Joy, I 252 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: think she's kind of like evidence that talent is something 253 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: you're really born with. I don't know that if she 254 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 1: had gone through the traditional music school that she would 255 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: sound any better than she does, just having sort of 256 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: picked it up naturally. Would you agree she did go 257 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: to music school. She went to Sunny Purchase. But you 258 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: can't teach that, you're so right. And also she's still 259 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: relatively new to singing this kind of music. She didn't 260 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: grow up singing jazz. And that's what's amazing to me 261 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: to think that they who effectively started really focusing on 262 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: this in the last four or five years, is singing 263 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: at that elite of an I mean, it's incredible. But 264 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 1: she's more than a singer. I mean she can sing saxophones, 265 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,080 Speaker 1: so like Ella, I don't want to be reductive, but 266 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: she's a musician. She's a bandleader. She's counting off the 267 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: tempos of her songs, and she's also an omnivore. I 268 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: went to the Knicks game with her the other night, 269 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: and she was singing along to every song they played 270 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: at the time outs, whether it was Journey or Beyonce. 271 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, she's also a completely normal, open minded, twenty 272 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: three year old person who's still kind of just taking 273 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: in all the music. But I agree with you, I 274 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: think you're getting into rarefied air when you have that 275 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: level of talent like she does. I mean, I've worked 276 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: at for a long time and we have been sent 277 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 1: a lot of singers over the years, A lot of 278 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: them are really great, but I've kind of run out 279 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 1: of words to describe what she can do. I mean, 280 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: that's why he's better just to listen. She's otherworldly, and 281 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: she's also probably a better person. Sounds cliche, but she's 282 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: so nice and she's got such a good work ethic, 283 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: and she's so unfazed by all this. And I'm sure 284 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: if it was me, I would be insufferable, like two 285 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: days after the Grammys, and she's completely the same person 286 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: that she was. She was here at the office the 287 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: other day and it was like we'd given everybody at 288 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: the office laughing gas. People are just so happy that 289 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: she's here and feel so proud to be a small 290 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: part of her rise. We need to take a quick break, 291 00:15:56,160 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: but we'll be back with more from Jamie Kristz. And 292 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: we're back with Jamie Kruntz. I think about jazz a lot. 293 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily listen to it, but I think about 294 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: it because it's a uniquely American art form. I mean, 295 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: in a way, jazz was kind of like the hip 296 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: hop of its time. Would you say that I love that. Yeah, 297 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 1: we think about that too. It is something that absolutely 298 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: originated here in this country. That's one of the great 299 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: ironies is that there have been a lot of times 300 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: where jazz musicians and jazz music have probably found greater 301 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: appreciation in other countries than they do here. I mean, 302 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,080 Speaker 1: it was the pop music of its day. That's something 303 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: that sometimes people who are younger who work here are 304 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: surprised to be told that Ella Fitzgerald had number one singles, 305 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: things like that, it's alive and well. I feel like 306 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: I have at least enough perspective to say that in 307 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: the twenty five ish years that I've been here, jazz 308 00:16:57,080 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: is in the best place it's been, both in terms 309 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: of the musician ship and the quality of the records, 310 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: but also in terms of the ecosystem that's out there 311 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: to support it. Like jazz musicians are getting added to 312 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: Coachella and Bonaru and it's not as siloed as it 313 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 1: used to be. I grew up loving jazz, but I 314 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: also played bass in indie rock bands, and I actually 315 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: see a lot of parallels not only between jazz and 316 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: hip hop, but jazz and punk rock. And most of 317 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: my friends from that world love jazz. I mean Flee 318 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: and Henry Rollins and Fugazi, they're all huge jazz fans 319 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,720 Speaker 1: because there are a lot of commonalities, and I think 320 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,679 Speaker 1: the good news is it's a lot healthier than it 321 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: was ten or fifteen years ago. Is any part of 322 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 1: that attributable to the vinyl boom? Is jazz seeing more 323 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: vinyl reissues as many as we can make. We wish 324 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: we could make more vinyl that we're up against the 325 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: same supply chain and capacity issues that every music company is. 326 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: But yes, the vinyl boom has been really helpful. I 327 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: think some of it is artists making more focused records. 328 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: But there's never been a lack of great jazz musicians 329 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: who can play incredibly well and going to see them 330 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: live as mind blowing. But when you think about the 331 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,919 Speaker 1: jazz records that have stood the test of time, and 332 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: we're lucky to have a lot of them. But I'll 333 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: mention something that we don't Miles Davis, Sketches of Spain, 334 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: kind of Blue, or records that we do have in 335 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: our catalog, Ella and Louie stan Getz, John Coltrane loves Supreme. 336 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 1: Some of these records that everybody likes when they hear them, 337 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,760 Speaker 1: it's because the songs are great, the compositions are great, 338 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,399 Speaker 1: they're pleasant, you're not you don't have to listen to 339 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,400 Speaker 1: them and just hear virtuosity. There are melodies and there's 340 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: great interaction and there's magic in those records. And I 341 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: think that there have been a lot of artists who've 342 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: come along in the last ten years who've brought some 343 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: of that to the table. Again, Kamassi Washington had an 344 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 1: incredible impact. Independently, we have an artist on Impulse named 345 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: Shabaka Hutchings who's got different groups sons of kemt comed 346 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,360 Speaker 1: Is coming, Shabaka and the Ancestors. But he rose out 347 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,359 Speaker 1: of a East London loft party scene rather than just 348 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: playing in the jazz clubs. But he brings that energy 349 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: and desperanza. Spalding Brandy Younger, who records for a said 350 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: Impulse Julius Rodriguez is an up and coming pano player 351 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: and multi instrumentalists. There's a lot of good jazz records 352 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 1: being made, and I think that's as much as the 353 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 1: vinyl boom and things like that. I think equally that's helped, 354 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: and I also think young people are a little more genreists. 355 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: It was very very segmented. It's sort of like Oh, 356 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: that's a jazz guy. When I was growing up, or 357 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: you'd walk into the record store and make a hard 358 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: left to that section. And I have a twelve year 359 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: old son who really just doesn't seem bogged down in 360 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: any genres, you know what I I mean. He likes shred 361 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: guitar music, and he likes Kurt Vile, and he also 362 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: likes Cannonball Adderley. Yeah. Well, also, it's interesting to think 363 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 1: about Verve was launched really as a label for Ella Fitzgerald. Right. 364 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 1: She didn't have a contract, right, I mean, it's not 365 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: unlike a doctor dre and death row. I mean, it's 366 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: it's a home right. It was. It was an indie label. No, 367 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: you're so right, And it was at the time she 368 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: couldn't get the record deal she wanted, or she was 369 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: being discouraged from making the music she and her manager, 370 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: Norman Grands felt like she should make, so they started 371 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 1: their own label. And that entrepreneurial and independent spirit. We 372 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: like to think that we've retained that and it's kind 373 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: of our north star. I'm not delusional. We do sit 374 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: in a big corporate record company and there are benefits 375 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: to that, and there are things about that that I 376 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: understand why they're stigmatized, but I feel very comfortable saying 377 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: to artists who sign here, the good outweighs the bad 378 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: having this level of resource and support. But also the 379 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: team were very internationally oriented. We have dedicated offices in 380 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: over seventy countries for these labels, and that's also very 381 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: hard to quantify what a difference that can make because 382 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: so so much of this music resonates outside of the 383 00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: United States anyway. Yeah, so where's the second biggest market 384 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: for jazz Japan? Japan, the UK, France, but you know Poland. 385 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: We have artists you wouldn't believe how well they do 386 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: in Poland and Diana Crawl. What our biggest markets is Portugal. 387 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: So let's talk about your background, because you're a musician. 388 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,680 Speaker 1: Where does your passion for music come from and how 389 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:06,160 Speaker 1: did you land in the label system? Well, I grew 390 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: up in Washington, DC, and I always loved music and 391 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,639 Speaker 1: I was an early consumer. I went to Olsen's Books 392 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: and Records in nineteen eighty three or eighty four and 393 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 1: I bought Thriller and Lionel Richie's Can't Slow Down on cassette, 394 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: And that was as soon as I had my first allowance. 395 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: So I always loved music and I was a big fan. 396 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: But my dad died when I was in sixth grade, 397 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: and I think when he died the only positive thing 398 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: was I think I then felt like, Okay, maybe I 399 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,959 Speaker 1: can try music because I won't be in his shadow. 400 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: And so I started playing guitar and then very quickly 401 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: moved to bass. And I was really lucky because DC's 402 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: music scene in the eighties was so vibrant, and also 403 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: my cousin played drums in the band Fugazi and Minor 404 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,320 Speaker 1: Threat and the Bad Brains. There are all these bands 405 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of around DC as well. I was very lucky 406 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: because DC isn't always this active music lead. So I 407 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: played in bands growing up, and it never occurred to 408 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: me that you couldn't do that because my cousin was 409 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 1: out there touring the world in Fugazi, and it just 410 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: seemed like, Yeah, that seems like a much better job 411 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: than anything they're teaching me in high school. And I 412 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 1: ended up going to Oberlin College. There's a conservatory there, 413 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: and I loved jazz, so I was eager to study 414 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: and take classes in the conservatory. But there's also a 415 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,479 Speaker 1: college and I studied English as well, and when I 416 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: was there, Kareno was there from the AA Yeas and 417 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: John Theodore, who went on to play drums in the 418 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: Mars Volta and is now in Queens of the stone 419 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: Age and Bright Eyes. In high school, my best friends 420 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:28,160 Speaker 1: and I started a band that eventually became a French Kicks, 421 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: which was an indie rock band, and our friends and 422 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: kind of rival band at the other high school were 423 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: the guys who formed Jonathan fire Eater and then the Walkmen. 424 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: It was almost like a collective, I mean, these bands 425 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: became somewhat interchangeable. So after college, both the Walkmen and 426 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: the French Kicks ended up in New York and I 427 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: was trying to be a professional musician, but in between 428 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: some of the early tours I needed a job. We 429 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 1: weren't making any money, and the French Kicks were on 430 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: an indie label called Startime, which ironically ended up getting 431 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: absorbed by Universal, so not by design, but I sort 432 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: of ended up in the building either way. But my 433 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: girlfriend at the time had a connection in the human 434 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: resources department, and it was right when PolyGram and Universal 435 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: were merging at the end of the nineties, and there 436 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: was an opening to work with the outgoing president of 437 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: ver Verve and Impulse were going to merge, and Tommy Lapuma, 438 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: who was running Impulse, was going to end up with 439 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: the job, so I ended up becoming a temp assistant 440 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: to the guy who they knew wasn't going to be 441 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: there much longer. I figured I'd be here for a 442 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: month and steal a bunch of CDs and make a 443 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: little money and then go back on the road. And 444 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,359 Speaker 1: when the dust settled after the merger, they realized they 445 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,679 Speaker 1: had fired too many people and they needed an assistant 446 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: in the catalog department, and I was still playing a 447 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: lot with the band and touring. I had no intention 448 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 1: of giving up playing music, but they offered me the job, 449 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 1: and for a couple of years I was able to 450 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 1: balance the two things. But I found that first of all, 451 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,399 Speaker 1: I wasn't the greatest bass player, and second of all, 452 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: I found I really liked working in the music business 453 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: and being on this side of things, and it might 454 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: have been a little different if I'd worked at Matador 455 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 1: or a label that was closer to the music I 456 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: was playing. But I was not a great jazz musician 457 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: and I still am definitely not a great jazz musician, 458 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: So it was kind of a church and state thing 459 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: where I just loved working with Herbie Hancock and Charlie 460 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: Hayden and Diana, and also working on these incredible reissues, 461 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: and so it never made me feel like I was 462 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 1: somewhere I shouldn't be. I was just such a fan 463 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: of Verve and its history and jazz and I still 464 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: play music. I still play some gigs. I still play 465 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: with some of the guys from The Walkman from time 466 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: to time. But this is what I do. And if 467 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: you heard me play bass, you would agree I probably 468 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 1: made the right choice. Don was runs Blue Note and 469 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: I always say, well, I'm the second best head of 470 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: a jazz label bassist at Universal. I think he would agree. 471 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,159 Speaker 1: So that's funny. When did you discover the Velvet Underground 472 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety one Pale Blue Eyes? Someone put it on 473 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: a mixtape. I was so relatively late compared to the 474 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: Stones and lots of other bands, but I, yeah, a 475 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 1: little bit late in high school, but I went all in. 476 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: And if they're not my favorite band, they're in the 477 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: top five, that Velvet Underground, or they're just to me, 478 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 1: Like everyone likes the cliche about everyone who bought the records. 479 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: Whatever anyone thinks about that, I just have to say 480 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: that they're underrated, whether or not everyone bought the record 481 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: started a band, and whether Brian Eno actually said that, 482 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: But I still don't think people understand that if they 483 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 1: hadn't existed, music would just be different. For a lot 484 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: of music would be different. And they were such a 485 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,880 Speaker 1: big influence on the bands that I mentioned from DC 486 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: that I played in or my friends bands, and we 487 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,680 Speaker 1: were able to do kind of a tribute album around 488 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: the Todd Haynes film that Universal produced, and that was 489 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,800 Speaker 1: so selfishly fun worked with how Wilmer before he died, 490 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 1: and just to kind of go around to people and say, 491 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,639 Speaker 1: we're going to do the Velvet Underground Nico record. What 492 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: song do you want to do? It's almost like we're 493 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: all in a cult. Whether it was Kurt Vile or Fontaines, 494 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: Matt Sweeney, everyone was just like they had a definitive 495 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: idea of, Oh, I want to do heroin the song. 496 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: Speaking of the Todd Haynes documentary, did that move the 497 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,439 Speaker 1: needle in terms of the Velvet's catalog verve? The UMI 498 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: is the catalog company here and I checked in with 499 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: them a lot after that came out, and in a 500 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: republic are involved as well. It didn't move the needle dramatically, 501 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: not as much as I would have hoped. But Todd 502 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: also didn't make one of those music docs that kind 503 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: of feels like an infomail. Sometimes you see these films 504 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: and it's like, you made this to try to sell 505 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: the catalog, And if you saw Todd's film, that wasn't 506 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 1: his agenda, and he made a film that I think 507 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: had a deeper mission and so wouldn't have moved the 508 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 1: catalog more if it had been more linear, maybe, but 509 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: I just think it would have been so boring to 510 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: make a behind the music velvet underground doc, and he 511 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 1: was never going to do that, so we were really 512 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: thrilled with the results. It was also a bit early 513 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: in the life of Apple TV. It was sort of 514 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: preted lasso, and I don't know how many people saw 515 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 1: it when it first came out, because I feel like 516 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: now it probably would make a deeper impression because more 517 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: people have that service. Do you work with Universal on 518 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: film projects? I know John Batiste has a documentary coming 519 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: out right he does, Yes, yeah, we do. There are 520 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: two studios here at Universal and then also some of 521 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,919 Speaker 1: the labels Republic have Federal films. They were involved in 522 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 1: that Todd Haynes movie. But there are two studios here 523 00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,639 Speaker 1: and we work with both of them. Mercury Studios is 524 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,520 Speaker 1: doing the Batiste doc that you mentioned, and PolyGram Entertainment, 525 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: who've done everything from the Amy Winehouse film to the 526 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: Ron Howard Beatles movies. Jazz has a lot of good 527 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: stories and there was a Lewis Armstrong film, Black and 528 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: Blue that came out before the Holidays that was really great, 529 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: So we were really happy to be peripherally involved in that, 530 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: and that really did move the needle. Lewis Armstrong had 531 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: his first Billboard top two hundred appearance since nineteen sixty five. 532 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,520 Speaker 1: We put out this Christmas project. It came out right 533 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,479 Speaker 1: after that film, and I think all those things helped 534 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: VERVS had some I would say, like big names in 535 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 1: the music industry run it before, like Danny Bennett, Tony 536 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: Bennett's son, and David Foster ran up for a while. 537 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: How much of it is you're the proprietor you're the shopkeeper, 538 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: and how much of it is I'm going to make 539 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: this label my vision of music, Like David Foster. I 540 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: imagine running Verve is very different from a Danny Bennett 541 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: is very different from a Jamie Krentz. What is that 542 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: title require of you? I would also just add Tommy 543 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: Lapuma to that conversation, because he was running Verve when 544 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: I really became officially employed. The big differences, they were 545 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,400 Speaker 1: all to some degree public figures. Then I'm really not so. 546 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: Tommy was a record producer and a record producer of 547 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,320 Speaker 1: a very very high level, and he'd had a lot 548 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 1: of success, but he was in many ways not a traditionalist. 549 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: He was very different than David, who is also a 550 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: record producer and a songwriter and is known for a 551 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: much more slick commercial sound, and was coming off of 552 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,400 Speaker 1: really breaking Michael Boublet and Josh Grobin. And it was 553 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: a very logical thing to do at that time, and 554 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: the music business was still in a very tough spot, 555 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: and I can understand why David came in and took 556 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: the job, and we actually had some great times. I mean, 557 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: I was the closest with Tommy. He was really my mentor, 558 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 1: and I spoke it is memorial service, which is the 559 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: most scared I've ever been, much more than any other gig. 560 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,560 Speaker 1: But David actually brought a lot of good things here. 561 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: I think ultimately it wasn't the job that he wanted, 562 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: and there were so many challenges that were systemic, not 563 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: necessarily his, But he did a lot of good things here, 564 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: and Danny did a lot of great things. I mean, 565 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: Danny signed Tank in the Bengas, Danny came to Verve 566 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 1: and has his great taste in music, I had a 567 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 1: front row seat to take kind of the best of 568 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: what those guys were doing and then maybe avoid some 569 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: of the pitfalls that were out there as well. So 570 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: I ultimately don't think it's really about the president of 571 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: the label. I think it's about the roster. And obviously 572 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: the president of the label can have a huge effect 573 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 1: on the roster. But ultimately, if you're not empowering the 574 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: A and R team and helping to find the right 575 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: artists and looking at the marketplace, it really doesn't matter. 576 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 1: The tip of the spear is the A and R, 577 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: and then it's about having the right people to help 578 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: tell the stories on the marketing and the press and 579 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 1: the digital sides. So rather than sounding like falsely magnanimous, 580 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: I would just say that I got a real time 581 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 1: user manual of what probably benefits Verve and also what doesn't. 582 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: And I got to work here for a long time 583 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:19,120 Speaker 1: before I was entrusted with this role. So it's a 584 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,400 Speaker 1: little bit like I got a roadmap that some of 585 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 1: those guys didn't get, or I have the longest roadmap, 586 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: and that served us well so far. Girl from Ipanema 587 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: is that's a Verve catalog song, right, Yeah, yeah, that's 588 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: in our catalog. Yeah, Anita, a couple of years ago 589 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: she redid it. She went and got permission from the 590 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: family to sort of do an interpolation spin on it, 591 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: have interpolation sort of like boosted the catalog. Are you 592 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: seeing more jazz licks like end up in hip hop songs? 593 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 1: Has that opened up at all? More so with TikTok 594 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: sounds and people like Billy Holliday's Solitude. We had a 595 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 1: great story with that last year where it kind of 596 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: took on a life of its own. And that's not 597 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: an obscure Billy Holiday, but it was fantastic for discovery 598 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,239 Speaker 1: of her music. Girl from Eppanema. You know, it's one 599 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: of the best known Solitude's not even in her top 600 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: three best known songs. Sometimes as much as we'd like 601 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: to take credit. These things happen kind of organically, and 602 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: there are levers we can pull as a marketing company 603 00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: with our catalog and our frontline to try to increase 604 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: the chances that something has virality like that. But equally, 605 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 1: I think the people speak sometimes and kids are discovering 606 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 1: so much music and someone makes a TikTok and we're 607 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: having a great moment right now with something similar happening 608 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 1: for a tank in the Bengas Sound and it's performing 609 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: better than anyone would have ever imagined. So we are 610 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: just trying to stay up to date. That is not 611 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 1: something we would have even talked about five years ago, 612 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: and now it's like a core part of our business 613 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: and we just try to make sure when we lean 614 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: into it, we do it right. What about those playlists 615 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: like the mood playlists or the chill or the study 616 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: Is that something you guys work actively? Oh? Absolutely, And 617 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: during the pandemic we did a huge amount of at 618 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: home because we were all at home. And yes, we 619 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: have to what's our value to our artists if we're 620 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: not increasing their chances of ending up in places lifestyle playlists, 621 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: mood playlist It's like the equivalent of used to check 622 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,920 Speaker 1: into like a hipster hotel and you'd always hear the 623 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,760 Speaker 1: same things playing in the hotel lobby, And it's kind 624 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: of the modern version of that. It's the soundtrack to 625 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: certain situations, in certain moods, and yet we spend a 626 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: huge amount of time and resource making sure we're well 627 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: represented there. Are you involved in the classical music side 628 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: at all? Not as much. No, that's really looked after 629 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: by a couple of my colleagues, Dick and Stainer, who 630 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: is our COO and he's the global head of Classics 631 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: and Jazz at Universal, and Joseph Urki and Dawn Oli 632 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,520 Speaker 1: are the kind of senior executives here who are focused 633 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,360 Speaker 1: on the music of Decca and Deutsche Gramophone. And it's 634 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: really not my area, but we're a pretty seamless team 635 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: and most of our staff works across all of it. 636 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: So personally I'm not as involved in it, but I'm 637 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: plugged into it and it's a critical part of our business. Well, 638 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: I was going to ask if there's been any progress 639 00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 1: on that Apple Classical app Apple Classical. Yeah, I think 640 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: there has. I mean, Universal's very involved in it, and 641 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: so is Decca and Deutsche Gramophone. For sure. I'm probably 642 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,239 Speaker 1: not the right person to speak with fluency on it, 643 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,720 Speaker 1: but it's coming. Could you ever see something like that 644 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:25,440 Speaker 1: for jazz? I would love that that might be the answer. 645 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 1: On the streaming side, we might need something that's that 646 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: focused to really achieve the progress we need in streaming 647 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: for jazz. Yeah, I would be all for it. But 648 00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: I also think that as much as we're more than 649 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: a jazz label and jazz is just one of the areas, 650 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: I also think jazz doesn't need a dedicated app to 651 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,320 Speaker 1: do better than it does. It's so funny. When we 652 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: signed Kurt Vile, we talked about what label he wanted 653 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: to be. Do you want to be on Verve Forecast 654 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: that tends to be our less jazzy stuff, and Kurt 655 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: was like, no, I love the Velvet Underground, I love 656 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: that classic Verve logo. I want to be on Verve 657 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: And his first VID he's wearing a sun rash or 658 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: That's what I mean is it's not always even that 659 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: important to make these distinctions because he's as much of 660 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,440 Speaker 1: a fan of the jazz stuff we do. And then 661 00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: we have jazz artists who were so stoked that we 662 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: signed Kurt Vile. So that's what's I think really cool 663 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: about the roster we have now is there's a pretty 664 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: respectful two way street going between all the genres. Well, Jamie, 665 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: this has been so informative and interesting. Thanks so much. 666 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: I really appreciate you talking to me. Thanks for tuning 667 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 1: into Variety strictly Business. This episode was edited by Jessica Chalvoy. 668 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 1: Please make sure you subscribe to the podcast to hear 669 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,920 Speaker 1: future episodes featuring conversations with medium movers and shakers. Also 670 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: leave a review on Apple Podcasts and let us know 671 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,160 Speaker 1: how we're doing