WEBVTT - Teaching Companies to Do Good While Innovating

0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.200
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:08.080
<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. But the past

0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:11.040
<v Speaker 1>couple of years, due the pandemic, the continued exposure of

0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:14.640
<v Speaker 1>racism and society, the truckles, the struggles of our world

0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.880
<v Speaker 1>and workers overall have led to companies and global senior

0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.840
<v Speaker 1>leadership coming out making pledges to do better, be better,

0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:24.080
<v Speaker 1>and embrace all of society stakeholders. And yet, as our

0:00:24.120 --> 0:00:26.239
<v Speaker 1>next guest will share, there is more to it in

0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.720
<v Speaker 1>getting it right and building out responsible innovation. It's something

0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:32.560
<v Speaker 1>we talk a lot about here at Bloomberg Business Kevin Manias,

0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.800
<v Speaker 1>founding partner at Category Design Advisors. He joins us on

0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:37.880
<v Speaker 1>the phone from New York City. His new book is

0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:41.559
<v Speaker 1>called Intended Consequences, How to build market leading Companies with

0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Responsible Innovation. Kevin, how are you hey? I'm great, Thanks

0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:47.440
<v Speaker 1>for having me on. Hey, it's really great to have

0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.760
<v Speaker 1>you with us. I want to hear the origin story

0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.639
<v Speaker 1>here and the moment that you realize that what you've

0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.440
<v Speaker 1>been observing, what you've been writing about, it was it

0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:59.200
<v Speaker 1>was perfect for a book. Take me into it well.

0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:01.720
<v Speaker 1>I co authors us with a guy named Haymont Tunisia,

0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and Haymont is the guy who runs the General Catalyst,

0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.520
<v Speaker 1>which is now one of the most powerful VC in

0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.480
<v Speaker 1>Silicon Valley. This is the third book we've written together.

0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.119
<v Speaker 1>So we had over the last five or six years,

0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.480
<v Speaker 1>constantly conversations about what's going on, what do we know,

0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:19.360
<v Speaker 1>what do we want to say? Things like that, and um,

0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:22.319
<v Speaker 1>one of the things we've it's been on our minds was,

0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.920
<v Speaker 1>um that just as you say, right the um, there's

0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.399
<v Speaker 1>been constant conversation about we gotta be responsible, we gotta

0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.800
<v Speaker 1>be addressed, all stakeholders, all this kind of stuff. Um.

0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:38.360
<v Speaker 1>But uh, it was all kind of um like, all right, well,

0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:41.480
<v Speaker 1>that would be a nice thing to do, but nobody

0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.880
<v Speaker 1>had actually come up with what we What we noticed

0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:45.959
<v Speaker 1>was nobody had come up with like a playbook, Like

0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.040
<v Speaker 1>if you're a founder starting a company and you're saying,

0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:50.600
<v Speaker 1>like I really want to do that. I mean, I

0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:52.360
<v Speaker 1>think it's important, I think it's the best way to

0:01:52.400 --> 0:01:55.920
<v Speaker 1>do business. But nobody had actually written like, how do

0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.320
<v Speaker 1>you think that through and build it into your business?

0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:00.920
<v Speaker 1>And so that's what we decided to do. We we

0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.440
<v Speaker 1>wanted to help a new generation of founders and perhaps

0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:07.160
<v Speaker 1>people who know already have companies and are and are

0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:09.919
<v Speaker 1>doing well, uh, to have a way to think through

0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.960
<v Speaker 1>these issues. Well, and what's interesting too, And I was

0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.200
<v Speaker 1>thinking about your book because it really does know how

0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.200
<v Speaker 1>to build these companies and it really plays to the

0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:20.040
<v Speaker 1>startup world. But I do wonder, Kevin, can we as

0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.200
<v Speaker 1>we see this rotation going on in the established corporate

0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:29.400
<v Speaker 1>America or or global corporate world of companies, you know,

0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:34.440
<v Speaker 1>laying out E s G practices talking about sustainability, being

0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:39.079
<v Speaker 1>good global corporate citizens. Um, how do you view all

0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:40.919
<v Speaker 1>of that? Because there's an awful lot of investment money

0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.800
<v Speaker 1>playing into that as well. Yeah. Well one of the

0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.720
<v Speaker 1>probably the key point that we make here is that, um,

0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:52.440
<v Speaker 1>it's it's all fine to say that you're you're going

0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to do this but the um but but it's not

0:02:56.520 --> 0:02:58.919
<v Speaker 1>really baked into the company unless it's part of the

0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:02.799
<v Speaker 1>like the business model has to actually do better if

0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:08.359
<v Speaker 1>you're doing better. Um and and uh so you know,

0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:11.040
<v Speaker 1>if you're an investor, for instance, and you're looking at

0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:14.520
<v Speaker 1>like E s G scores just measure an outcome, They

0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:17.520
<v Speaker 1>don't actually tell you what the company is really like

0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.280
<v Speaker 1>doing as a as a and um. And if you're

0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.639
<v Speaker 1>an investor and you really believe in this and and

0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.720
<v Speaker 1>by the way, we believe that it's actually the path

0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:33.880
<v Speaker 1>to better profits and better long term sustainability of a company. UM,

0:03:34.200 --> 0:03:37.120
<v Speaker 1>then I would look behind the curtain and ask yourself,

0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:40.520
<v Speaker 1>does the business model actually support it? Does the business

0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.360
<v Speaker 1>model do better? And you know, a great example of

0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:46.320
<v Speaker 1>that is, you know, if you're you know, Facebook can

0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.720
<v Speaker 1>say all at once about like we're going to be responsible,

0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:51.960
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna we're gonna do this with our AI and

0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:56.000
<v Speaker 1>all that kind of thing. But Facebook's fundamental business model

0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:58.840
<v Speaker 1>works against it being able to hold to the hold

0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.600
<v Speaker 1>that line. So you know, if you're an investor, look

0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.840
<v Speaker 1>behind the scenes and ask yourself, does the business model

0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:09.560
<v Speaker 1>actually support those good intentions? Okay, this is we only

0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:11.440
<v Speaker 1>have about a minute left, but we're gonna come back

0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:12.640
<v Speaker 1>with you and we're gonna have more time. But this

0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:14.520
<v Speaker 1>is a question that certainly requires more than a minute

0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:15.880
<v Speaker 1>for an answer, so we can you can think about

0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.800
<v Speaker 1>it more too. Is it possible to do this to

0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.560
<v Speaker 1>succeed in this framework as a publicly traded company or

0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.800
<v Speaker 1>do you have to do this as a private company?

0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.080
<v Speaker 1>Because when Carol and I report on earnings every quarter.

0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.640
<v Speaker 1>It's top line, it's bottom line. I'm not saying do

0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:35.039
<v Speaker 1>they not have you know, do they not impact the environment?

0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.719
<v Speaker 1>Were they thinking about their workers? Were they contributing to society?

0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.960
<v Speaker 1>We don't ask those questions. Amazon stock did not move

0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:49.360
<v Speaker 1>higher today because of you know these metrics, right right? Well,

0:04:49.680 --> 0:04:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the short knowing you learn a much time. The short

0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.839
<v Speaker 1>answer is yes, And I can explain why when we

0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.400
<v Speaker 1>come back, if that's what you want me to do, perfect, Absolutely,

0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:01.480
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna come back with Kevin many, founding partnered Category

0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Design Advisors. He's got a new book out, Intended Consequences,

0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.240
<v Speaker 1>How to Build market leading Companies with Responsible Innovation. I

0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:09.880
<v Speaker 1>want to get back to our guests. We're talking with

0:05:09.960 --> 0:05:13.320
<v Speaker 1>Kevin Maney, author of Intended Consequences, How to Build market

0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:16.520
<v Speaker 1>leading Companies with Responsible Innovation. He is founding partner of

0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Category Category Design Advisors. Excuse me, and he's still with

0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:23.000
<v Speaker 1>us on the phone in New York City. So when

0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:25.400
<v Speaker 1>you look out at the landscape, Kevin, and you work

0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.880
<v Speaker 1>with a lot of companies, and you you help UM

0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.320
<v Speaker 1>companies when it comes to messaging and strategy and innovation

0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and communication UM. But when you look at our companies

0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.000
<v Speaker 1>that are their startups, are those that have been around.

0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Who do you think gets it right? Well, so let

0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.840
<v Speaker 1>me let me jump in that from the also from

0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.520
<v Speaker 1>the earlier question about can public companies do this? Oh,

0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:53.560
<v Speaker 1>I'm sorry, I forgot about that. No, no, but these

0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:57.440
<v Speaker 1>these things actually converge because because you know, one of

0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.919
<v Speaker 1>the most successful companies I'm a planet at doing this

0:06:00.279 --> 0:06:04.360
<v Speaker 1>is Tesla and UM. And if you think about Tesla,

0:06:04.400 --> 0:06:08.520
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's business model is depends on it helping

0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:11.440
<v Speaker 1>with climate change and in fact, you know, and must

0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.280
<v Speaker 1>runs the company as a climate change company, not as

0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:16.560
<v Speaker 1>an electric car companys. Why it's in batteries and then

0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.040
<v Speaker 1>solar and getting into all these other things. So UM,

0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:22.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, to go back to that earlier comment about

0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.680
<v Speaker 1>UM that to really be a responsible innovation company you

0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.360
<v Speaker 1>have to have it baked into the business model. Your

0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.440
<v Speaker 1>business has to do better if you do the right

0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:34.839
<v Speaker 1>thing better, And in Tesla's case, the more it helps

0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.040
<v Speaker 1>get carbon out of the out of you know, the atmosphere,

0:06:38.040 --> 0:06:39.920
<v Speaker 1>carbon emissions out of the atmosphere and all of that,

0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.839
<v Speaker 1>the better of the businesses because it's selling more electric

0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.599
<v Speaker 1>cars and selling more batteries whatever. UM and so it's

0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:49.680
<v Speaker 1>it's absolutely possible for public company to be that as

0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.800
<v Speaker 1>long as it's baked into the business model and UM.

0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.760
<v Speaker 1>There are all sorts of startups that i've you know,

0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.360
<v Speaker 1>counter worked with. We feature one, for instance, in a

0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.800
<v Speaker 1>book called City Block Health and City Blocks found a

0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.960
<v Speaker 1>way to be UM to have build a profitable business

0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.240
<v Speaker 1>on the idea of bringing healthcare to the populations that

0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.840
<v Speaker 1>I can't afford it, to get it late from homeless

0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.360
<v Speaker 1>people and like that. UM and and so the more

0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.720
<v Speaker 1>that it helps people who can't get healthcare get healthcare,

0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:21.320
<v Speaker 1>the more profitable and the better the company is. And

0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.640
<v Speaker 1>it's valued at over a billion dollars. Now it's a

0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.480
<v Speaker 1>private company, but it's uh, you know, certainly has an

0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:28.880
<v Speaker 1>intent to go public at some point. Hey, Kevin, I

0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.120
<v Speaker 1>want to I want to go back to this Tesla example,

0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:34.480
<v Speaker 1>because I think of Tesla and I definitely think of

0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:37.200
<v Speaker 1>the business model from the perspective of climate change and

0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.840
<v Speaker 1>being a climate first company. But at the same time,

0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I think of the way that Elon Musk has come

0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.400
<v Speaker 1>into criticism for the way that he's treated employees in

0:07:44.440 --> 0:07:46.720
<v Speaker 1>the past, the way that the National Labor of Relations

0:07:46.760 --> 0:07:50.880
<v Speaker 1>board ruled that Tesla had fired a worker illegally who

0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.080
<v Speaker 1>was involved in union organizing. So I'm just wondering how

0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.120
<v Speaker 1>you square those things because and look, even this week

0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.840
<v Speaker 1>we learned from the President that a Berg story about

0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:04.920
<v Speaker 1>how the President doesn't want to even mentioned Tesla because

0:08:04.920 --> 0:08:07.200
<v Speaker 1>it's not a union company. So how do you square

0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.200
<v Speaker 1>that in this in this framework? Well, I mean, look,

0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.200
<v Speaker 1>I agree with you there there is a caveat that

0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Elon Must himself at times acts badly. Um. But I

0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.280
<v Speaker 1>just want to, you know, take the step away, to

0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:25.080
<v Speaker 1>step away from that, just to the idea that back

0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.680
<v Speaker 1>to the idea that Tesla is a company that is

0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.560
<v Speaker 1>built on a business model that helps the planet, you know,

0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:36.839
<v Speaker 1>with climate change, um and and so on the bottom line,

0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.120
<v Speaker 1>the better the company helps the planet, the better the

0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.000
<v Speaker 1>company does and it will be more profitable if you

0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.719
<v Speaker 1>a better stock and all of that. Elon Must may

0:08:46.160 --> 0:08:49.439
<v Speaker 1>do some weird things that that you know, hurt the

0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.200
<v Speaker 1>company as a as an individual, um, But I think

0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:56.920
<v Speaker 1>we have to separate those things from each other. Yeah,

0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.400
<v Speaker 1>because it's interesting. We have a lot of conversations, Kevin

0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:04.600
<v Speaker 1>have just how executives and the c suite and senior

0:09:04.640 --> 0:09:09.520
<v Speaker 1>officials kind of square profitability against doing right. Like I've

0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:11.679
<v Speaker 1>talked to, you know, senior officials at a B in

0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Bev And I mean they're constantly seeing the environment because

0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:21.120
<v Speaker 1>access to water, access to barley hops, you name it.

0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:24.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean, climate change has impacted them pretty dramatically. And

0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.600
<v Speaker 1>so a company like that is taking measures because I

0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:30.120
<v Speaker 1>think it has to for the existence of its business.

0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.679
<v Speaker 1>But it but it's tough because it does feel like

0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.320
<v Speaker 1>we have a lot of conversations of people saying they

0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:38.280
<v Speaker 1>want to do good, whether it's the environment, whether it's

0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.040
<v Speaker 1>for workers, workers rights, you name it. And yet when

0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:45.080
<v Speaker 1>it comes to it, that talk doesn't always lead to action.

0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Well's true, and and in tastes like a company like

0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.880
<v Speaker 1>a B and I mean, it doesn't really have a

0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.240
<v Speaker 1>way that I could that I know, and I don't

0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:56.320
<v Speaker 1>know where the company is in that way, but I

0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:02.000
<v Speaker 1>do drink it spear but but the but the uh,

0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:04.800
<v Speaker 1>But I don't I don't understand the way that A

0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:09.680
<v Speaker 1>B Inves could possibly have baked into its business model

0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.559
<v Speaker 1>that it is doing well for people or the planet

0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:17.680
<v Speaker 1>or whatever, um, because basically it's you know, it's selling

0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.719
<v Speaker 1>us drinks. I mean, UM, that's the business model. More

0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:23.880
<v Speaker 1>itsells that, the better it's going to do. It's you know,

0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:26.480
<v Speaker 1>the climate change stuff is a nice to have rather

0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:28.720
<v Speaker 1>than it must have in terms of its business model.

0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:33.640
<v Speaker 1>So that's not responsible innovation in your view, right, you know,

0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:36.880
<v Speaker 1>it's it's trying to be responsed. But our argument with

0:10:36.920 --> 0:10:39.680
<v Speaker 1>this book is that if you want to create a

0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:44.280
<v Speaker 1>company or run a company that UM is sustainably going

0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:48.680
<v Speaker 1>to be responsible UM over the long run, it has

0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 1>to have a business model that actually supports that and

0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:55.320
<v Speaker 1>not not just we call it in the book, there's

0:10:55.360 --> 0:11:00.320
<v Speaker 1>there's two aspects of responsible innovation we call mindset and mechanism.

0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.199
<v Speaker 1>And mindset is great. Lots of companies in the mindset

0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:04.720
<v Speaker 1>we want to do better, we want to do good,

0:11:04.760 --> 0:11:06.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're to stakeholders, all this kind of stuff.

0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.679
<v Speaker 1>But if they don't pair the mindset with a mechanism

0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.680
<v Speaker 1>that supports it, the first time there's some pressure on

0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.280
<v Speaker 1>profits or something goes awry, they're going to abandon that mindset.

0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:19.920
<v Speaker 1>And the only way to make that sure that those

0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.719
<v Speaker 1>UM that happens over the long run is if those

0:11:22.760 --> 0:11:25.680
<v Speaker 1>two things are inextricably linked. Right, And I know you

0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:29.520
<v Speaker 1>you you talk about key consequence indicators casey eyes as

0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:31.240
<v Speaker 1>a way to kind of keep track of it. Hey,

0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:34.920
<v Speaker 1>just unfortunately got about forty seconds or so. How do

0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 1>you deal with a tough issue like inequality? And we'll

0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:39.400
<v Speaker 1>have to have you come back and talk more, but

0:11:39.600 --> 0:11:44.920
<v Speaker 1>how do you deal with something like that? You know again,

0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, um, there's there's one. It's one thing. If

0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.520
<v Speaker 1>you're talking about inequality and hiring practices and all, again,

0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:53.760
<v Speaker 1>that's not baked into the business model. That's having a

0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:57.320
<v Speaker 1>nice mindset of like we want to do this. You know,

0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>even something like I just mentioned like city Block for instance,

0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:04.959
<v Speaker 1>which is trying to help healthcare inequality by helping people

0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:08.600
<v Speaker 1>get healthcare who can't afford it, building a good business

0:12:08.640 --> 0:12:13.120
<v Speaker 1>on that. That's a way to actually help with inequality. Well,

0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.760
<v Speaker 1>let's continue this in the future. Kevin Maney, thank you

0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:18.920
<v Speaker 1>so much. Founding partner Category Design Advisors. The book Intended

0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Consequences How to build market leading Companies with Responsible Innovation