Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going, and welcome to nerd if sometimes
Speaker 1: your host if you away and sitting across from he
Speaker 1: has always eased Danny Fernandez. Yeah, and you know, feeling good.
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're deep into Black History Month. We're
Speaker 1: in the second week. Oh did you like that Google ad?
Speaker 1: I watched it so many times, which it was Google
Speaker 1: put out this ad. I think it came out the
Speaker 1: week of the Super Bowl, and it was like the
Speaker 1: most the most googled performance. It was Beyonce, the most
Speaker 1: googled athlete, it was lebron the most googled I think
Speaker 1: musician or something was Prince. It was just like showing
Speaker 1: like these are all black artists that like have have
Speaker 1: taken over you know, and just iconic history makers. It
Speaker 1: was really neat. I'll send it to you. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: so dope. Well yeah, so, you know, I wanted to
Speaker 1: do something special this year for Black History Month end,
Speaker 1: kind of like shine a spotlight on I think one
Speaker 1: of the most influential black people in comics, which is
Speaker 1: Dwayne McDuffie and his legacy which was you know, uh,
Speaker 1: way more than just him, but Milestone Comics and Milestone Comics. Uh,
Speaker 1: you know with just the t LDR before we really
Speaker 1: jump into it was this initiative by d C that
Speaker 1: like allowed for just black people, Like They're like, here,
Speaker 1: we'll give you a space to run with it. So,
Speaker 1: you know, whenever I want to do something black, I
Speaker 1: I have a very short list of friends who I
Speaker 1: come through first. And you know on the top of
Speaker 1: that list is Ed Greer for you've seen them on
Speaker 1: New Negroes on Comedy Central. You have a new rebooted
Speaker 1: show we'll talk about at the end, and you know
Speaker 1: all over Screen Junkies and the Nerd Goat podcast, which
Speaker 1: we've both been on. How you doing, guys, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for having me back. You know, I wanted
Speaker 1: to come back, and you know, I'm glad this is
Speaker 1: the perfect subject to kind of bring me back into
Speaker 1: the fold. Yeah. So if he what was your because
Speaker 1: I was on the Nerd go I was on Ed's
Speaker 1: podcast talking about my goat, which is vegeta, And I
Speaker 1: would give you one guess was yours? Goku? Oh? Yeah,
Speaker 1: did he come on before or after? Mek Shoes to fill?
Speaker 1: Actually a little tiny, little tiny pointed shoes to fill? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know, Yeah, No, it's I've been. Uh. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: been interesting getting back into anime because I remember the
Speaker 1: defense I was in anime. I was kind of in
Speaker 1: um and I didn't realize this until Yester this morning
Speaker 1: when I was watching A Bunch. But like i've like
Speaker 1: since we've did krilling, it was when I kind of
Speaker 1: started watching DBC again and that's when I kind of
Speaker 1: watched a little bit of um dB Super and then
Speaker 1: I was kind of watching Attack on Titan and One
Speaker 1: punch Man. But I was kind of out of out
Speaker 1: of you know, the loop wise because I it was
Speaker 1: came up in a discuss essentially like I'm the only
Speaker 1: one who liked anime in my last relationships, so like
Speaker 1: when you watch things together to just watch the default thing,
Speaker 1: and I think slowly and slowly anime became less a thing.
Speaker 1: I watched it now, like I'm watching so much anime.
Speaker 1: Uh And it was one of those things where I
Speaker 1: got hooked. And now me and Brodier on our crunchy
Speaker 1: roll account and it's funny because I can see what
Speaker 1: Brodie is. Oh yeah, he's right now, he's watching Dragon
Speaker 1: Ball Super and I was like a little thug to here.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, Brodie, but yeah, he's been
Speaker 1: watching that and he was watching Samurai Pizza Cats at y. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's like going in the deep dive because you know,
Speaker 1: he's also learning in Japanese. But like, yeah, right now
Speaker 1: I've going through Mob Psycho season to catch up on
Speaker 1: my hero and then I'm always start getting Tama. So
Speaker 1: I think that's a good way to say. That's what
Speaker 1: I'm geeking out about this week is anime. I'm deep
Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, what about you, ed, what are you
Speaker 1: geaking out about? Oh? Man, that's why I asked you
Speaker 1: guys before, because you anything. No, you know what I
Speaker 1: like to start problematic. I am from Kansas City, so
Speaker 1: I think you know, okay, oh that's a big deal
Speaker 1: on the Nerd Show. But I mean, were you born
Speaker 1: in Kansas City? I was also born in Kansas City?
Speaker 1: Really yeah, I never knew that this all these years.
Speaker 1: I know. I'm sorry. I have no lineage to it
Speaker 1: because my dad just lived there for a year, like
Speaker 1: with a job, Like he got a job out there
Speaker 1: and we were there for a year and that was
Speaker 1: the year that I was made and born. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: that is where I was born. But no, but just
Speaker 1: I was I lived in Kansas City until I was
Speaker 1: a grown ass man and moved out here to pursue
Speaker 1: my dreams. So my whole childhood, we were like the
Speaker 1: bottom line is when you like sports, right, when you
Speaker 1: like sports, it's one of these things where you identify
Speaker 1: with these guys, these pituitary cases, pushing each other around,
Speaker 1: ducking on each other, whatever the sport it is, you
Speaker 1: identify with this. And we weren't bad like the Cleveland
Speaker 1: Browns where we would never win and there was no chance.
Speaker 1: We were like every time we were just so close.
Speaker 1: We were just had one side of the ball wasn't
Speaker 1: good enough. All this kind of stuff. So now the
Speaker 1: least problematic Native American names, oh my gosh, in the
Speaker 1: in the world. At least they're the King's you know.
Speaker 1: So but so, yeah, my chiefs, I'm very happy that
Speaker 1: they wont I'm very happy that they're bi racial quarterback.
Speaker 1: I'm very glad. You know he's right quarterback to win
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl? Well yep, and uh and I think
Speaker 1: the youngest m v P but I might. I'm not
Speaker 1: get that into it, but like you, but yeah, that
Speaker 1: was what was wild is we were at my house
Speaker 1: when we were watching the game, Jakis wanted to throw it.
Speaker 1: Everyone was like, who's your did you want to throw
Speaker 1: it at your house? Because that's hilarious that you you
Speaker 1: offered up somebody to tell well, I mean he came through.
Speaker 1: It was so funny because I laughed and I meant
Speaker 1: to text you this, but that's like this party was
Speaker 1: how I knew Jackies was type A and I was
Speaker 1: me because I was like, Yep, we're gonna get a
Speaker 1: bunch of food and when the food gets here, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna buy the food of the day of and Jakis
Speaker 1: is like, all right, I'm I'm pre ordering the pizza
Speaker 1: so that it arrives right at the second quarter. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, people are great get stuff done.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we is. But it was great. It came together.
Speaker 1: But when we were there, you know, I'm a Saints
Speaker 1: guy and Jakis he's from Chicago, so he's a bearss guy.
Speaker 1: But we're like, yeah, we're going for the black quarterback.
Speaker 1: That's the that's the team we're going for. And it
Speaker 1: was so funny because like Teresa Lee was there, who
Speaker 1: is a forty Niners fan because she's from the Bay,
Speaker 1: Like she was the only person there who was repping
Speaker 1: her team, and everyone else was like, no, we just
Speaker 1: want the black quarterback to where And you know, and
Speaker 1: I gotta say, it goes just the tiniest bit beyond that,
Speaker 1: just for me, because, like I said, bottom line, sports, sports, sports, whatever, boring.
Speaker 1: But like when you're when you're from a crappy little
Speaker 1: town and you know, not not dispend the city, but
Speaker 1: when you're when you're from a place that nobody cares about,
Speaker 1: and then you the whole world has to watch you
Speaker 1: for three hours, you know, That's what That's how I felt.
Speaker 1: I felt the whole world had to watch my boys.
Speaker 1: And they were all like, ah, this is boing as
Speaker 1: San Francisco, this San Francisco that like, my girlfriend is
Speaker 1: down with San Francisco. And I'm like, look, I ain't
Speaker 1: trying to Bernie Sanders shoe, but it need to be
Speaker 1: some redistribution of these ships. You know. It says a
Speaker 1: redistribution of these championships need to take place, a wealth
Speaker 1: reallocation of the championships. Son, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So you need to relax and and vote for these
Speaker 1: young chiefs. Thank you very much. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was a great game. What about you, Danny. Well,
Speaker 1: the thing I'm geeking out about is hair Love, which
Speaker 1: our friend Matthew Cherry actually wrote, produced and directed, which
Speaker 1: so we are recording this Saturday, the day before the Oscars.
Speaker 1: It's nominated for an OSCAR and it's a short. If
Speaker 1: you haven't seen it yet, I think you can catch
Speaker 1: it online. We saw it in theaters because it ran
Speaker 1: before Sony actually picked it up. He did a kickstarter
Speaker 1: that was very successful. Sony Pictures Animation picked it up
Speaker 1: and it aired before Angry Birds too, and that's how
Speaker 1: Iffy and I saw it. Um. But it's nominated for
Speaker 1: an Academy Award, and so that you're listening to this
Speaker 1: after the awards have already aired, and I'm I'm hoping
Speaker 1: that he had the best time and I know that
Speaker 1: it won. So I'm just gonna go ahead and put
Speaker 1: that energy out there. Um, and this is we're saying
Speaker 1: congratulations Matthew on Yep, yep, yep. So the story follows
Speaker 1: dad who has to do his daughter's hair for the
Speaker 1: first time. Usa Ray is also in it. Uh. It's
Speaker 1: great and UM excited for Matthew and his whole team
Speaker 1: to be at the Academy Awards. Well, I guess this
Speaker 1: town to jump in it today. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: we're talking about Milestone Comics and this this if I think,
Speaker 1: if anything, you may know about Milestone, even if you
Speaker 1: don't think you know about Milestone, which is you know
Speaker 1: about Static and that was a product of the Milestone
Speaker 1: Comics era. Uh so, uh, I mean what before we
Speaker 1: even get into this, what's what's your experience with Milestone?
Speaker 1: And because you were you were hip, You're like, this
Speaker 1: is this is my m No, you put it out
Speaker 1: on Twitter. It was like, yeah, man, I talk to
Speaker 1: some black creators and comic creators. We're gonna talk about
Speaker 1: some Masstone and somebody just feel these offers. And I
Speaker 1: saw what was coming back and I was like, what wait,
Speaker 1: wait are the people replying? Well, I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I probably jumped it. I'm even before anybody could reply.
Speaker 1: You know that the fact that there weren't in one
Speaker 1: nanosecond five billion people on there just wasn't a front
Speaker 1: to myself. So yeah, which, by the way, I want
Speaker 1: to say that we just shout out we had clear
Speaker 1: your partner on for the Planets episode, and that was
Speaker 1: someone in imediately who when she I like posted, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, who knows? And she's like, I cannot believe
Speaker 1: you didn't ask me. And I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you're right. I am sorry, but I think I guess
Speaker 1: we're an insistent couple. Yeah, I mean you are a
Speaker 1: non legeable couple. Y'all are like nerd couple. Girls. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're like nerd nerd couple of royalty. You know what,
Speaker 1: after we break up, I'll remember these, remember these loud
Speaker 1: of tory statements with some bubble head that doesn't know anything,
Speaker 1: like yeah, but yeah, I think they issue you one
Speaker 1: when you get on right. So the bottom the bottom
Speaker 1: line is I I know I love her and she
Speaker 1: gets everything I'm talking about. But Milestone was before even
Speaker 1: her experience with comics or whatever. So Milestone to me
Speaker 1: is like kind of my childhood. Like when I was
Speaker 1: like in boy Scouts. We would go out in the
Speaker 1: woods and do the boy Scout jazz, but when it
Speaker 1: came nighttime, we bust out the flashlights and read or whatever.
Speaker 1: I would have. I would have this Bolestone comic. My
Speaker 1: friend would have another one woman, have an X man woman,
Speaker 1: have this. We have a little library in a tent reading.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put a pause on that because I just
Speaker 1: learned something about you and I don't want to move faster.
Speaker 1: You were in the Boy Scout, Dude, I was a
Speaker 1: senior patrol leader. I was doing it. That's another black
Speaker 1: history moment right there, like black Man and the Boy Scouts.
Speaker 1: Let me tell you something mean, Gene, I'm sure. Wow.
Speaker 1: Do you have pigs? Uh? Picks? Oh no, No, I
Speaker 1: would never allow. I met your mom's Facebook. Does she
Speaker 1: has an album that's like My Children or something that
Speaker 1: you're in there? Ye? Well, not at the bottom like
Speaker 1: what Boy Scouts. Honestly, for me was like my mom
Speaker 1: really did try to get me out in the woods
Speaker 1: and stuff, you know, uh, to leave her alone so
Speaker 1: she can mack on some dudes. Now, basically she you know,
Speaker 1: is she trying to get me, you know, to live
Speaker 1: outside the urban experience so called you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: see the trees because she grew up in Higginsville, Missouri,
Speaker 1: with fishing and hunting and all this kind of jazz,
Speaker 1: so she wanted me to get down with it. But honestly,
Speaker 1: it just taught me about like, uh, you can make
Speaker 1: anything not fun with the opper leadership. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: became a senior patrol leader stuff. I never got a
Speaker 1: Eagle Scout because by the time I was about to
Speaker 1: get Eagle Scout, I was like maybe fifteen, and I
Speaker 1: started driving and stuff. And as soon as you got
Speaker 1: a car, boy Scouts is done. You've got something better
Speaker 1: to do. Every weekend, every night, you've got something better
Speaker 1: to do. See for US California l a kids, that
Speaker 1: was skateboard and everyone was on skateboards. Then when you
Speaker 1: got the whip and that's that's when the real skaters
Speaker 1: were made. Like are you skating the more skate spots?
Speaker 1: Are you tossing that because that was your vehic mode
Speaker 1: of transportation? Exactly? Mindo. Yeah. So so bottom line milestone
Speaker 1: to me and method Man has talked about this. A
Speaker 1: lot of people who are big in the nineties, like
Speaker 1: grown people in the nineties have talked about this. When
Speaker 1: you could go into a combook store and see four, five, six, eight,
Speaker 1: black or so called minority lead comics all under the
Speaker 1: DC banner, right next to X men, right next to you.
Speaker 1: Don't have to go into the back near the porn
Speaker 1: where something and I'm not trying to disk those comics
Speaker 1: that a lot of black creators got mad at Milestone
Speaker 1: when they first came out, because Milestone was like, it
Speaker 1: would be like if you and I try to make
Speaker 1: a comic, you and me, and then Danny goes gets
Speaker 1: on d C and we try to make a comic
Speaker 1: and Danny's comic on DC is blowing up. So she's
Speaker 1: a minority where minorities, but her minority comics is blowing up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we mad because we don't have the infrastructure. That's
Speaker 1: what's starting to happen with with Milestone when they first
Speaker 1: came out. But no negatives aside when we were when
Speaker 1: we were kids, we didn't know about all that. All
Speaker 1: we knew was was the first time I'm gonna look
Speaker 1: at these comics and it wasn't black for black sake.
Speaker 1: It was like these people happened to be black in
Speaker 1: the same way supermanded Batman and Alquaman and Wonder Woman
Speaker 1: and and and just happened to be white, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So, and they weren't just black comics
Speaker 1: that had the first gay comp The first gay character
Speaker 1: I ever saw in a comic book was in one
Speaker 1: of those the first uh yeah, the first lesbian relationship
Speaker 1: I ever saw. It was in there. The first interracial
Speaker 1: relationship I saw that wasn't inflected with all this intracurricular bullcrap.
Speaker 1: It was just a matter of fact relationship was in
Speaker 1: those comics. So that's kind of what it meant to me,
Speaker 1: just as a primer for us, is that it was
Speaker 1: the first time I could see blackness is not like
Speaker 1: some people have called them the black and the Black comics,
Speaker 1: and that's not true. They were diverse and what they say, uh,
Speaker 1: equality seems like oppression. You're not used to it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah it's And I want to this is a
Speaker 1: good time to inject this. I think I might have
Speaker 1: said it on an earlier episode, and I want to
Speaker 1: keep talking about this, but just this is an This
Speaker 1: was from an era like the nineties where a time
Speaker 1: where if you had black lead or black you know, uh,
Speaker 1: things that featured a lot of people of color and minorities,
Speaker 1: it was interminority. Here's thing. There was a black movie
Speaker 1: that was a black content and and people would treat
Speaker 1: it as if like, oh, I'm I'm I'm not black,
Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna watch it. When it's like, no,
Speaker 1: we don't We don't look at media and go, oh
Speaker 1: that's a white that's a white thing. We're not gonna
Speaker 1: watch it. We watch it just the same. So why
Speaker 1: is all of a sudden now it's this red light.
Speaker 1: And I think that really did kind of hurt a
Speaker 1: lot of movies and why we started lying to ourselves
Speaker 1: when that industry lie went that we couldn't have black
Speaker 1: leads because they wouldn't sell overseas. And now we've disproven
Speaker 1: that time and time again. But I'm sure some people
Speaker 1: are still trying to stick to that lie. But yeah,
Speaker 1: you you I think about Tales from the Hood. I
Speaker 1: don't know if you've watched it again recently, but that
Speaker 1: movie is a movie that if it came out now
Speaker 1: would seem like a get out, you know, because it
Speaker 1: is a horror movie that the horrors of the movie
Speaker 1: are things that were affecting the black community. The first
Speaker 1: the first story was a police brutality, the second domestic violence.
Speaker 1: The third, um you know, just a racist, uh like
Speaker 1: um politician and hilarious to see like the dude from
Speaker 1: l a lock and getting trampled by black creatures. Well
Speaker 1: funny enough. Uh, you know, we talked about it on
Speaker 1: Who Shot You? And Joel our researcher who has also
Speaker 1: been on the show, a friend of all all different parts.
Speaker 1: She brought up that that movie came out a year
Speaker 1: after Jeff Sessions almost one, Um, we're not Jeff Sessions.
Speaker 1: Who's the other KKK David Duke when he almost won
Speaker 1: the presidency and it's like, wow, we almost had a
Speaker 1: KKK Grand Wizard as a president, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: now we just have a closeted one burn, one more
Speaker 1: one star review. Why is my Hood orange? Scifically because
Speaker 1: he's doing a hate monger cosplay. You know, there's never
Speaker 1: any nice mangers except for cheese mongers. Yeah, I called
Speaker 1: people make cheese cheese mongers and fish mongers, I guess.
Speaker 1: But everything else hate monger, fearmonger. Yeah, mangers get a
Speaker 1: bad y. Yeah, like yeah, you know what, we've already
Speaker 1: pushed our limits. Yeah, let's hop into it. So. Milestone
Speaker 1: Comics launched in and closed in ven It was a
Speaker 1: black owned and created comic book company that sought to
Speaker 1: make comics that capture the complexities of black life. In
Speaker 1: other words, there's not one kind of black person in
Speaker 1: these books, capturing all of those nuances, subtleties, and complexities
Speaker 1: allowed an opportunity for young black readers to see their
Speaker 1: lives reflected in superheroes. The characters were allowed to be humorous, serious,
Speaker 1: or even arrogant in their demeanor without fear of stereotyping
Speaker 1: or type casting. Yep. And that's one of the main
Speaker 1: things that I got out of when I first started
Speaker 1: looking at it. And it's not necessarily correction of what
Speaker 1: you said earlier, Iffy, but it's like it isn't that
Speaker 1: d C was just thinking about, let me go ahead
Speaker 1: and see how I can give these black creators some
Speaker 1: kind of Now, that was not the case. Denny's Cowen
Speaker 1: had become sort of a star artist at d C,
Speaker 1: so that was that in. Dwayne McDuffie had done a
Speaker 1: little work for Marvel and a little work for them
Speaker 1: as well, so they were kind of in the machine. However,
Speaker 1: what happened was Dwayne and Christopher Priest wrote a lot
Speaker 1: of the background stuff. The guy who reinvented Black Panther
Speaker 1: basically Dwyane, Derek Dingle, Michael Davis, somebody else I'm forgetting
Speaker 1: right now. They got together as a collective and made
Speaker 1: a comic book Universe like on spec and then walked
Speaker 1: it into d c's offices. And to d c's credit,
Speaker 1: they didn't just throw the fools out the window. You know,
Speaker 1: they were like because they had done so much work.
Speaker 1: So just I'm not trying to be a jerk, but
Speaker 1: it shows you how much preparation. Also, some history that
Speaker 1: I want to add to it, and what might have
Speaker 1: helped their cause is this launched in which was one
Speaker 1: year after Image Comics launch, which means that was one
Speaker 1: year where they watched some of the top comic creators
Speaker 1: dip out. Because they did so, I think DC was like, oh,
Speaker 1: we don't want Image Comics part two, let's jump in
Speaker 1: on this. That's an important piece of context because that
Speaker 1: that is a time when it just dawned on everybody
Speaker 1: that comics aren't from two companies. Yeah, comics are from
Speaker 1: everybody if you have the proper infrastructure. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: was That's an important piece of yeah, because I can't
Speaker 1: imagine what they would have hated more than one other one,
Speaker 1: because like you were saying, they established and that's what's
Speaker 1: so interesting. And this is I think how this whole
Speaker 1: series is gonna end up going is me taking elements
Speaker 1: of this and sprinkling in it today and like hopefully
Speaker 1: dropping help acknowledge to anyone listening. But that's the important
Speaker 1: thing is because I think a lot of times and
Speaker 1: you know, me and ED know this a lot because
Speaker 1: with comics and comics, we talked to other young comics
Speaker 1: and black comics, and there's idea where it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: there are more than one way to do anything. But
Speaker 1: I think one of the most important parts of making
Speaker 1: honest work happen is becoming that type of undeniable where
Speaker 1: it's like they bunch you on the team so like you,
Speaker 1: like you, you can't ask. You have to demand almost
Speaker 1: where and when you're in the position to demand, that's
Speaker 1: when you can make change happen. And that that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I was saying when I said that they
Speaker 1: came in with whole bibles, to big fat bible stack
Speaker 1: of backstory for all the characters, possible story arcs, that
Speaker 1: they came so prepared that you were gonna have to
Speaker 1: throw them out there, out of there with all that
Speaker 1: work done and with all that potential thrown out And
Speaker 1: just think about how people used to pitch books. I
Speaker 1: guarantee you that similar level. White creators didn't have to
Speaker 1: come in with it all the way done. That's still
Speaker 1: today like to not to change this thing. But like
Speaker 1: we've talked about, Yeah, we were talking about me selling
Speaker 1: my show, and I had my entire bible. I had
Speaker 1: ten episodes mapped out, I had five season art like
Speaker 1: what each character's season arc would be, and I sold it.
Speaker 1: But you know, and they paid for my bible. But
Speaker 1: I can guarantee someone has sold out the studio like, well,
Speaker 1: it's a guy, but his farts talk and uh, it's
Speaker 1: like six seasons adult Swim. I will. I've seen and
Speaker 1: not to be too critical of of of women creators
Speaker 1: or anyone else, but I have seen the letter that
Speaker 1: Lena Dunham wrote that got people so interested in girls.
Speaker 1: And it's tight, but it's light. It's tight, but it's like, well,
Speaker 1: and I think the way to look at this, And
Speaker 1: it's so funny because I always come at it where
Speaker 1: they like, look, I'll even look. I'll even come from
Speaker 1: your side, and I know what happened. I know you
Speaker 1: aren't actively like I'm trying to choose one over the other.
Speaker 1: But what happens is it easier for you to see
Speaker 1: potential in someone that looks like you, because they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're just like me than a person of color. So
Speaker 1: then they have to show you all this potential that
Speaker 1: you now at this point, it's like I can't let
Speaker 1: that get away. Like you said, with all those Bibles
Speaker 1: and all that stuff. It was almost a threat because
Speaker 1: it was like, all right, you don't really like this,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make this. We we haven't ready to go.
Speaker 1: So they d C was in the position where they
Speaker 1: had no choice. Absolutely, I agree with that assessment very much.
Speaker 1: And again it meant a lot to us kids because
Speaker 1: when you looked at the comic book characters, people of
Speaker 1: rand this pointing to the ground, but Black Panther is
Speaker 1: a genius, kung fu, super rich king of a super
Speaker 1: future place that you get to be a black character
Speaker 1: for that super hard skin ghetto superstar hero, all this
Speaker 1: kind of stuff like I don't know about that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, And like all yet, you either
Speaker 1: have to be the paragon of virtue or somebody who
Speaker 1: literally did crime fighting for money, and it was almost
Speaker 1: no in between unless you wanted to carry Captain America
Speaker 1: shield like the Falcon did for fifty years or something,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, unless you wanted to be
Speaker 1: sort of a valet for a white character, or like
Speaker 1: Ebony White in the in the old Will Eisner Spirit series,
Speaker 1: where he literally looked like straight Sambo style, So we
Speaker 1: got Sambo style Super King in the Future, or Negro
Speaker 1: who gives says, give me five dollars some to get
Speaker 1: Debo saving you in the Hood character, which is what
Speaker 1: Luke Cage was. Yeah, that's a whack diaspora of blackness
Speaker 1: to be choosing from. So that when you picked up
Speaker 1: a Milestone comic and so one of them was a teenager.
Speaker 1: We're gonna go into all the characters when I was
Speaker 1: a teenager. One of them a Republican, one of them
Speaker 1: a lawyer, one of them is a technologist, one of
Speaker 1: them is this. It's like yeah, all right, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: And we're gonna really hit Static because there's something very
Speaker 1: important of static. Uh, and we're gonna do a Static
Speaker 1: episode because he gets his own episode. We're going to uh,
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break and then we're gonna
Speaker 1: jump into Milestone Comics. Hey, Hey, how are y'all doing?
Speaker 1: Welcome back to Nerdificent. I'm if you whidy ways sitting
Speaker 1: across from me as Danny Fernandez and sitting in with
Speaker 1: us is friend all around superhero of podcast and you
Speaker 1: know talking head shows on the internet and hilarious comedian
Speaker 1: Ed greer Na. That's a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I want to get it all so people know, you know,
Speaker 1: so it is. It is so funny because like we
Speaker 1: talked about this before, but people know you from a thing,
Speaker 1: so they'll always say a thing when it's like, but
Speaker 1: I do other things. If he's from BuzzFeed. Actually you know,
Speaker 1: I'm an actor to you know, it's funny time. I
Speaker 1: hope people get hung up on something they saw you do,
Speaker 1: like one time or something you remember of time. Like
Speaker 1: I used to go to the comedy store and when
Speaker 1: I was waiting to go up, I would draw so
Speaker 1: to get the mcs start to bring me up. This guy,
Speaker 1: hilarious guy, great artist. But nobody wants to hear that
Speaker 1: right before you trying to make him laugh. He's about
Speaker 1: to make me bust up here, great artist, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And coming up next to the stage,
Speaker 1: it's in van God, you're doing like slam poetry. I
Speaker 1: think it's the other way that you're like, yeah, he's
Speaker 1: really vulnerable and wrong. Oh my gosh. But yeah, we're
Speaker 1: talking about Milestone and we're about to jump into the comics.
Speaker 1: But one thing I definitely wanted to talk about that
Speaker 1: really is a standout in this like awesome kind of
Speaker 1: power move they're able to pull with d C is
Speaker 1: the fact that even though they were published through d
Speaker 1: C Comics, they did not fall under d C Comics
Speaker 1: editorial control, which I think is very important because there's
Speaker 1: a lot of times you have black things, but the
Speaker 1: people you know making the decisions are still white, and
Speaker 1: there are and it's not even necessarily Sometimes it's not
Speaker 1: even necessarily that they're like actively trying to prevent anything.
Speaker 1: It's that they just don't get it. And I've noticed
Speaker 1: in um some of my working relationships. Obviously none of
Speaker 1: the ones that I've done recently are on right now,
Speaker 1: But I feel like when I say it like that,
Speaker 1: it makes it seem like that, but I'm not. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying I'm trying. It's just one of those things
Speaker 1: where you're trying to make a statement about working relationships
Speaker 1: and you don't want anyone who happens to be listening
Speaker 1: and working with you to think they're talking about just
Speaker 1: if you think I'm talking about you, I'm not. Maybe,
Speaker 1: but like there's this you know when when when the
Speaker 1: way you process create, the way when the way you
Speaker 1: create and process you know, the information that you use
Speaker 1: to create, and the default is whiteness, and it's coming
Speaker 1: from a place of blackness that maybe hilarious. You know
Speaker 1: you you you'll be like, oh, this isn't funny, and
Speaker 1: it's like, no, you just don't get it, like no
Speaker 1: one know. I think a lot of times, a lot
Speaker 1: of especially if you've been established in a comedy or
Speaker 1: as a creator, you don't want to admit that you
Speaker 1: just don't get it and you don't know what the
Speaker 1: funny thing is, so you tell yourself, oh, it's just
Speaker 1: not funny. And I think that's what causes a lot
Speaker 1: of edits a lot of reasons that, uh, people of
Speaker 1: color are just portrayed either to perfect or horribly. UM.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who remained nameless, who wrote on
Speaker 1: a very popular show. UM and he came in and
Speaker 1: he was black and there was a black character. And
Speaker 1: he remember him telling me one day and I think
Speaker 1: I've told this story before, where he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I know why this character is underwritten is because they're
Speaker 1: always so afraid to show him in a way that
Speaker 1: they feel might come off as racist, that they don't
Speaker 1: do anything at all, which is worse, you know, actually
Speaker 1: very common. Yeah. So, and I think that's that's the
Speaker 1: importance of having the decision makers be black, because now
Speaker 1: you have people who are confident in their decisions that
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, that's fine. Yeah we can show a
Speaker 1: flawed black person because I a black person, know this
Speaker 1: isn't offensive, because that we have to show, like you said,
Speaker 1: the diaspora. And what's what's really wild about all that
Speaker 1: is just to just put to wrap up this part
Speaker 1: of it is that we as black people, we as minorities,
Speaker 1: people of color, whatever, whatever. The buzzword of the work is, Uh,
Speaker 1: we have a PhD and white Tollogy. I knew you
Speaker 1: were a poet, so vulnerable but said set the way,
Speaker 1: so seductive, so vulnerable, so vulnerable, But yeah, we have
Speaker 1: a PhD in white allog just to get just to
Speaker 1: get along. Yeah, so when we have to write Superman,
Speaker 1: I can write up up in a way with the
Speaker 1: best of them, but you might not be able to
Speaker 1: write what Jefferson Pearce is going through as black lightning,
Speaker 1: and that's fine as long as everybody admits that, and
Speaker 1: people kind of don't just play to your strengths, try
Speaker 1: to enhance your weaknesses. Maybe it'll be great to try
Speaker 1: to learn about other cultures the way that we are
Speaker 1: forced to. Yeah, because there are definitely some white writers
Speaker 1: who could throw down as a black Yeah. I was
Speaker 1: just about to say, because I want to say it,
Speaker 1: because every time we talk about this there I get
Speaker 1: a d M. And it's like, look, I get I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to dunk on you in a negative way.
Speaker 1: I get that you're really trying to get answers, but
Speaker 1: you always get the d M of being like, well,
Speaker 1: how do I write these characters of color and this that?
Speaker 1: And should I just send it to a I was like,
Speaker 1: you should hang out with your black friends. You should
Speaker 1: see how they act and like, you know, really and
Speaker 1: not from a observation, like really talk to him like
Speaker 1: it because it's through connection. Because to to your point, Yeah,
Speaker 1: the the guy who wrote both Dolomite is my Name,
Speaker 1: uh and Hustle and Flow was white. Like that that's
Speaker 1: a white directed directed bad directed but like that and
Speaker 1: it's just through Like it was surprising that knowing that
Speaker 1: both those movies he did, because it's one where it's like,
Speaker 1: all right, you might have got dolomite on on the flute,
Speaker 1: but also Hustle and Flow, which means that you you
Speaker 1: know a little something, you've you've talked to people, and
Speaker 1: straight up he wrote Hustle and Flow just to get
Speaker 1: it straight up. He wrote and directed Hustle Flow, which
Speaker 1: is about a Memphis pamp. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it was thoroughly enjoyed by black people, and I
Speaker 1: think it's the same way. Whereas, like, you know, if
Speaker 1: I want to write on I was about to snitch
Speaker 1: on this idea I've had, and I was like, I
Speaker 1: ain't trying to blow my blow my load on the
Speaker 1: pod to your point, Oh my gosh, I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: to your point, um, Steven L. Sears, who was on
Speaker 1: a podcast with he wrote on Zena and a bunch
Speaker 1: of other things, he was actually, oh, we were on
Speaker 1: the podcast together too. Yeah. He was saying that it's
Speaker 1: easier to write from that white male perspective because that
Speaker 1: is the lens through which all media has been told.
Speaker 1: Like that is just the fish bowl that we live in.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like what you were saying that
Speaker 1: it's harder for them because that's all the media that
Speaker 1: there has been has been catered to them. That it's
Speaker 1: actually easier for us people of color to write their
Speaker 1: stories than it is in reverse, because that's where we learned,
Speaker 1: Like like you know, once again, a little a little nugget.
Speaker 1: A lot of times, when you want to write your
Speaker 1: first pilot, what you're gonna do is you're gonna download
Speaker 1: popular pilots. I read for my first pilot. I think
Speaker 1: I wanted to do an ensemble, so I read through
Speaker 1: Parks and Wreck rather little community. What stories are those?
Speaker 1: What's so the the the foundations of me learning to
Speaker 1: create our white stories. So yes, of course, but then
Speaker 1: as I move forward and I want to tell my
Speaker 1: own stories, I have the bound not only do I
Speaker 1: have the foundation of no speaking their language, but also
Speaker 1: learning to speak my language and translate it into their language.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the difference, you know. Yeah, but also
Speaker 1: but at as far as the milestone thing. Add to
Speaker 1: that the constrictions of comics. War An Ellis has always said,
Speaker 1: comics are kind of crazy. If you think about it.
Speaker 1: The fact that superheroes dominate nine of comics is insane.
Speaker 1: It would be like if of novels were about nurses
Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, you know what, just I
Speaker 1: guess the whole art form got obsessed with one style
Speaker 1: of storytelling. It just went full boor into it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So basically, there are constrictions of comics.
Speaker 1: So like when you look at the Mouthstone Universe, everybody
Speaker 1: in the Mouthstone Universe not only has to be a
Speaker 1: unique character has to be from the black black perspective
Speaker 1: or minority perspective, but also they have to still fit
Speaker 1: into these rigid guidelines of what is a comic book.
Speaker 1: You know, you've got your teen character, which is static.
Speaker 1: Static represents uh, sort of a spider Man guy, Like like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm a regular geek. You know, I read
Speaker 1: I read a little Tolkeien, I read a little Heinlan,
Speaker 1: I read a little you know, Octavia Butler. I read
Speaker 1: a little this little that, and I'm a smart guy,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I get superpowers. The wish
Speaker 1: fulfillment that he felt as a fan of genre fiction
Speaker 1: was almost revolutionary. And then you see like a blood syndicate.
Speaker 1: Blood Syndicate was probably the I'll leave them for last.
Speaker 1: They're probably the most unique. But then like you've got
Speaker 1: icon which is Superman, you know, and you have a
Speaker 1: hardware which is Iron Man, and so it's like it's
Speaker 1: like trying to create with within this small structure. The
Speaker 1: fact that they were able to do so much was
Speaker 1: kind of fantastic. But yeah, so DC Comics uh just
Speaker 1: essentially had no editorial control, but they were are able
Speaker 1: to uh not publish any material they just strictly objected to.
Speaker 1: But Milestone Media, which is also very prolific, retained the
Speaker 1: copyrights of their properties and had final say on all
Speaker 1: merchandising and licensing deals pertaining to them. And in essence,
Speaker 1: DC licensed the character editorial services and create creative content
Speaker 1: for the Milestone books for an annual fee and share
Speaker 1: of the profits. So that I mean they essentially this
Speaker 1: truly is image walking. So they can run because they
Speaker 1: learned from that mistake and they're like, okay, well we'll
Speaker 1: give you the space, we will give you the control,
Speaker 1: because this is all like like if you just take
Speaker 1: the the aspect of them being black out of it,
Speaker 1: this is everything Image wanted they wanted to be able
Speaker 1: because you know, this was right around the era where
Speaker 1: people started making cartoon TV shows and selling T shirts.
Speaker 1: And there they were seeing them these create uh, these
Speaker 1: characters creating being taken by their bosses and money not
Speaker 1: getting to them. So Image was like yo. And then
Speaker 1: now Milestone was like yo when they gave them it,
Speaker 1: and no, I was just gonna say, if you don't know,
Speaker 1: we did an episode on Image Comics, So if you're
Speaker 1: not clear on the history of that and kind of
Speaker 1: how these these huge creators broke away to make their
Speaker 1: own comic book company, definitely check that out after you're
Speaker 1: done listening to this. And that was our little comic
Speaker 1: book box that was like, go do issue this this note? Baby. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: What I was gonna say is, uh, that's absolutely correct.
Speaker 1: And what's what's interesting about that is it's it's it's
Speaker 1: truly the best of both worlds. You have d C
Speaker 1: and Warner Brothers behind you, but you have creative control.
Speaker 1: When you look at what Images doing, it was even
Speaker 1: more like it was kind of hard for them at first.
Speaker 1: They had to go through Malibu Comics, you know, for
Speaker 1: a little while, and then you see things like the
Speaker 1: Wildcats cartoon and different stuff that came out. It didn't
Speaker 1: have the support of something like d see, so nothing
Speaker 1: that image could make in other forms could ever be
Speaker 1: as big as like Static Shock. Caustic Shock has Warner
Speaker 1: Brothers behind. You know, Superman might pop up in that piece. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you're independent all the way. Independent image comic can't
Speaker 1: really compete with that, And like I said earlier, a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of comics creatives right now start
Speaker 1: getting saltinger to Mr Peanut over this situation. Right, Baby nuts,
Speaker 1: baby Nut is our new king, this baby phenomenon, stop it,
Speaker 1: you know, I know that, Like I think Grout might
Speaker 1: have been one of the first Yeah, I know, and
Speaker 1: we've forgotten about we're saying that so far beyond the
Speaker 1: baby Grout is like like when when Gay Coleman started
Speaker 1: getting too old and they added that other kids anyway,
Speaker 1: But yeah, so you know, the Milestone brand ran story
Speaker 1: arcs around action, but they would also look at race
Speaker 1: and black sexuality. Being part of DC Comics helped open
Speaker 1: a wider distribution for them to uh just another back
Speaker 1: at Malibu Comics. That was hard to achieve, uh, And
Speaker 1: there was a multitude of other publishers launching new universe
Speaker 1: who didn't receive the exposure they could have because they
Speaker 1: were billed as solely comic books for black people. Boom,
Speaker 1: Uh with what I'd said earlier, Um, but the comics
Speaker 1: bust in did hurt the company, and soon the founders
Speaker 1: took on more lucrative careers with other comic book companies.
Speaker 1: When and then when the sales declined, Milestone closed up shop,
Speaker 1: but has gained like a cult like following. And you know,
Speaker 1: I think the strongest one that had survived has been
Speaker 1: Static But Milestone UH did continue his partnership with Warner
Speaker 1: Brothers and d C. So like Static Shock, the animated
Speaker 1: television series ran four seasons between two thousand and two
Speaker 1: thousand four. In the two thousand ten, DC printed a
Speaker 1: final run of the Dakota Verse UM, which basically was
Speaker 1: the universe that a lot of the Milestone characters lived in. UH,
Speaker 1: and it was titled Milestone Forever, and it wrapped up
Speaker 1: the storylines of all the major characters owned by Milestone. UM.
Speaker 1: Which cool and all, but let's open it back up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I bet they will. Well, I mean there's there's little drama. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: which we will get into. But one of those major
Speaker 1: characters was Icon, which you were talking about. Ed. For
Speaker 1: people that are not familiar with this comic, can you
Speaker 1: kind of give them a breakdown? Yeah, Basically, it's a
Speaker 1: it's a little redo of the of the Superman myth.
Speaker 1: But the interesting addition that they made was, so there's
Speaker 1: an alien craft. A guy, an alien escapes from his
Speaker 1: planet drops here and he's from like a weird kind
Speaker 1: of shape shifty race basically, and when the craft lands,
Speaker 1: it's like during at the Antebellum South, so it's slavery days.
Speaker 1: Rocket lands and a black slave lady comes up to
Speaker 1: the to the to the pod, it puts her hand
Speaker 1: on it, and it scans her DNA in order to approximate,
Speaker 1: almost like Transformer style, what the dominant culture is. So
Speaker 1: they assume the dominant culture is this black woman who
Speaker 1: touches the thing. So out of this pod comes a baby,
Speaker 1: a black little baby could taken care of, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's a Superman, but it's black. He's a black person,
Speaker 1: so he uh, he kind of has extremely long lived
Speaker 1: So when we were entered the series, his name is
Speaker 1: Augustus Freeman. He's been alive since slavery days, and he
Speaker 1: is a stone cold Republican because in his day, Lincoln
Speaker 1: freed the slaves. So he's just down with the Republican
Speaker 1: Party all the way through and becomes a lawyer and
Speaker 1: adjudicator and a really rich man, but doesn't use his
Speaker 1: superpowers for good because obviously he has experienced a world
Speaker 1: where people kind of reject that aspect of him, so
Speaker 1: he turned it off. It just was a regular person
Speaker 1: for like hundreds of years, for like a hundred years,
Speaker 1: I guess, I'm so, was this mc duffie that did this? Yeah, yea,
Speaker 1: So this was McDuffie and Dennis Cowen, who fun fact
Speaker 1: did the liquid Swords logo for the Jism. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: also went on to do the Boondocks. You helped produce
Speaker 1: the boon Knocks TV series, So he yeah, he went on. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So McDuffie said this, Uh, this is a quote. I
Speaker 1: try to put superheroes in situations where being strong or
Speaker 1: being able to fly or fight aren't the answers. This
Speaker 1: was in the nine interview with with the Detroit Free Press.
Speaker 1: He said, we've dealt with team pregnancy, abortion, racism, and
Speaker 1: anti semitism, being able to hit somebody harder doesn't help
Speaker 1: you deal with that. You will not find situations in
Speaker 1: my stories where the hero overcomes a villain merely by
Speaker 1: force of strength. Usually usually you will find that violence
Speaker 1: escalates the problem and creates new problems. So was this
Speaker 1: comic if he just stayed that way? Was it problematic?
Speaker 1: Or was it? Except like, well, what they did was
Speaker 1: they challenged some of those old school um attitudes that
Speaker 1: he had. Because in the initial I think the very
Speaker 1: first issue, even some some key kids and a girl
Speaker 1: that's with them sort of like just kind of going
Speaker 1: along with her thug boyfriend to kind of do what
Speaker 1: they're doing, and just oh no, robin a house. Oh no,
Speaker 1: this girl is involved in this robbery of Augustus Freeman's house.
Speaker 1: And he comes downstairs and supersup and other people run away,
Speaker 1: but Raquel stays she's more or less captured by him,
Speaker 1: but she's like intrigued by him about his superness, and
Speaker 1: she's like, what's up, homie, And she basically starts to question,
Speaker 1: if you're this powerful, why aren't you doing anything? You're
Speaker 1: a black superman, what the hell is wrong with you?
Speaker 1: And the whole book is more or less through her
Speaker 1: eyes as she sort of chastises Icon into assuming the
Speaker 1: mantle of a superhero because she sees it such a waste.
Speaker 1: And she's constantly challenging his political views, challenging his h
Speaker 1: his his lack of motivation to help his people, challenging
Speaker 1: the fact that he, uh, he's got a bootstrap mentality,
Speaker 1: but he's a super powerful alien. Of course, you think
Speaker 1: that people can pull themselves by the bootsteps. You can
Speaker 1: fly stupid, you know. So it's it's it's was really
Speaker 1: challenging certain conservative ideals. But at the same time, the
Speaker 1: very fact that a black book, totally black controlled, would
Speaker 1: have a bunch of conservative ideals in it at all
Speaker 1: is amazing. It's about diversity of thought. Now, trust me,
Speaker 1: I don't know Clarence Thomas, but I'm just saying, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, diversity of thought is necessary and important. Well,
Speaker 1: it's because it's one of those things where you're kind
Speaker 1: of just kind of levying and showing like the both
Speaker 1: sides and how you may end up on this side
Speaker 1: and that side. So I mean, that's prolific, and that's
Speaker 1: and is this is something I'm probably gonna repeat, but
Speaker 1: that sounds like something that could be on air right
Speaker 1: now and when people that. That is the main thing
Speaker 1: and the reason why I wanted to come on and
Speaker 1: talk to you guys about this is these people came
Speaker 1: along right at the right time, but at the wrong time,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They kind of out right
Speaker 1: at the right time to get their deal, but right
Speaker 1: when people stopped buying records. If you think I just
Speaker 1: got on, yeah that's great. People don't buy records, no,
Speaker 1: what you know, That's kind of what happened to them.
Speaker 1: They got on and they had the freedom. But like
Speaker 1: that's when the boom busted. That's when the image guys
Speaker 1: unfortunately started putting out a budget of stuff, bunch of
Speaker 1: late stuff. People started putting a chrome chrome cover on everything.
Speaker 1: Look at my comics they spinning. Yeah, we got spree
Speaker 1: Wells on our gun. Yeah. So, like they came along,
Speaker 1: it's just a matter of good timing and bad timing
Speaker 1: at the same time. But also they were way ahead
Speaker 1: of their time and the diversity of thought and the like.
Speaker 1: They took on corporate stuff with hardware, hardware, the character
Speaker 1: of hardware. And there was a genius kid who a
Speaker 1: guy like super rich guy sponsored him and said, hey, kid,
Speaker 1: I'll give you some money to go to the gifted school,
Speaker 1: and just helped him out, just a real like benefactor type,
Speaker 1: you know, white benefactor Mr. Drummond situation. And when that
Speaker 1: kid grew from fifteen to five, he ended up working
Speaker 1: at that guy's company and making all these idea patents
Speaker 1: and ideas and all this stuff, just brilliant engineering. And
Speaker 1: he goes to his boss and goes hey, the characters
Speaker 1: names Curtis Metcalf. He goes hey, can I'm Curtis Metcalf,
Speaker 1: your your award? I made you buildions of dollars? Can
Speaker 1: they get a couple of points? And he's like, let
Speaker 1: me make something clear. You're not my family. You're a tool.
Speaker 1: I bought a tool and the tools working well, so
Speaker 1: screw off. You don't get nothing peace. And then that
Speaker 1: caused him to be like, well, damn, that's really dispectful.
Speaker 1: I really feel bad about that. And then he starts
Speaker 1: to look into his boss's activities and sees it his
Speaker 1: boss as a super criminal who has has his fingers
Speaker 1: and all these pies. He's like a real Marchiavillian Spider type.
Speaker 1: And so he the credit metap character true to the call,
Speaker 1: you know, the circular thing of storytelling. He doesn't just
Speaker 1: launch into a thing to fight his boss. He goes
Speaker 1: and tries to tell the s FBI, the Securities Commission.
Speaker 1: He sends them evidence this dude is bad. And when
Speaker 1: they do nothing, that is when he creates the hardware suit,
Speaker 1: which is basically, I don't want to call it black
Speaker 1: iron Man, but let's call us let's let's call an
Speaker 1: iron man an iron man, and that that's when he
Speaker 1: starts taking on, you know, the evil of his boss
Speaker 1: and his boss and all this technology and stuff. So
Speaker 1: it's like it's this corporate battle and physical battle. But
Speaker 1: he only did it because the system failed him. Yeah
Speaker 1: you hear that, joker fans, That's that's the actual system
Speaker 1: failing somebody. Anyway. I'm sorry, Oh, we're just getting so
Speaker 1: into it. Let's take that quick break. But when we
Speaker 1: get back, we're gonna be charged up. Like we all
Speaker 1: all our brains took a blue chee and we're back,
Speaker 1: still talking about Milestone comics. So we talked about Icon
Speaker 1: a little bit of hardware, which is all these things
Speaker 1: are exciting and in the end, because these all sound
Speaker 1: like great shows, but there are rights things because everyone
Speaker 1: who made it do retain the copyright, so and a
Speaker 1: lot of these people this was the nineties, there's still alive,
Speaker 1: so it's you know, and we'll get to uh. There
Speaker 1: was that that whole rights thing. It kind of came
Speaker 1: into play with the like the closing the book on
Speaker 1: it um because I guess Robert Townsend to have a
Speaker 1: little action there. There's been attempts by people like you know,
Speaker 1: Reginald Hudling. Yes, that's what I'm thinking of, people like
Speaker 1: that to uh and maybe even Townsend at some point,
Speaker 1: but uh, to kind of redo the universe. As the
Speaker 1: copyrights are still sort of there, you could theoretically redo
Speaker 1: the universe within. There's some I think rights issues because
Speaker 1: they try to do the Milestone universe as they did
Speaker 1: a retcon. DC makes so many universes that when they
Speaker 1: just want everybody to fold into the main team, they
Speaker 1: just go, well, super Boy punched a prism in space
Speaker 1: and not now everybody's on the same team and now
Speaker 1: you can go talk to them do whatever. So all
Speaker 1: the universe are combined. So basically they tried to do
Speaker 1: a run where like Icon has always been here with Superman,
Speaker 1: but like that doesn't even make sense. Yeah, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like the two Superman's, two Iron Man
Speaker 1: type guys, the sthetic that it just didn't make sense
Speaker 1: for those people. I hate the separate and unequal or
Speaker 1: separate equal, I hate all of that. But the codea
Speaker 1: Verse really was a more complex place than the DC universe,
Speaker 1: So combining them that form of integration really dulled the
Speaker 1: fine blade that was milestone. I mean, yeah, just the
Speaker 1: and I was just so for those who don't know,
Speaker 1: I've been writing on sci fi great Debate, so I've
Speaker 1: been literally looking at Nerds stuff daily, writing jokes about them.
Speaker 1: But I was just looking because I'm trying to say
Speaker 1: this in a way that doesn't spoil the thing that's
Speaker 1: probably going to be in the show. But like, essentially
Speaker 1: I was looking at the um the geology or is
Speaker 1: that is that? Is that the word? I'm looking for geography,
Speaker 1: the geography of like Marvel versus d C. Whereas like
Speaker 1: d C has such weird geography, Like Gotham used to
Speaker 1: be in New Jersey, Like that's that's where it was
Speaker 1: originally stated to be. It was a city just outside
Speaker 1: of New Jersey. There was a picture on the US
Speaker 1: map and then it became its own place, and then
Speaker 1: Metropolis is his own place, and so like yeah, to
Speaker 1: kind of echo ats point, like there's no way to
Speaker 1: fit the Dakota Verse in there, because it's already hard
Speaker 1: enough to fit the actual country that these planes leave on,
Speaker 1: Whereas like Marvel did the smart thing of like where
Speaker 1: and I guess this Stanley quote is if uh, Spider
Speaker 1: Man broke his arm in Fantastic four, then in the
Speaker 1: next Spider Man issue, he still needs that broken arm,
Speaker 1: like he Stanley from the beginning was like, no, this
Speaker 1: has to make sense if this is supposed to be
Speaker 1: a world where d C they never cared about it. It
Speaker 1: It was all supposed to be just one off stories
Speaker 1: for all of their properties. And then when Marvel started
Speaker 1: doing it because that's how businesses, d C tried to
Speaker 1: do it, and now it's just super convoluted. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: DC also blended other universes they bought, like, you know,
Speaker 1: other comic book universes that try to fold in, and
Speaker 1: it was just like like, like, why is shas Um
Speaker 1: running around? Was Superman like literally what It's like they
Speaker 1: just look at the point at each other, like the
Speaker 1: Spider Man me, you know, honestly, they couldn't do it,
Speaker 1: but it would be a hard overhaul and they'd have
Speaker 1: to do what Marvel did, which has had their cabal
Speaker 1: of writers sit down and discuss these things. Oh, I
Speaker 1: think they might eventually do that in the d c
Speaker 1: U a thousand percent because those are the I mean,
Speaker 1: his film was one of the best best that came
Speaker 1: out in their new saga, along with Wonder Woman. Um
Speaker 1: So we talked a little bit about Static that you
Speaker 1: said is like a Spider Man archetyagi. He also was
Speaker 1: incorporated into the DC universe and became a member of
Speaker 1: Teen Titans. Can you talk a little bit more about
Speaker 1: his character, Well, basically, Virtual Hawkins was kind of you
Speaker 1: know when comic books, there's always nerds because nerds supposedly
Speaker 1: are the people who read comics, and it's you know,
Speaker 1: Sara type is true and a lot of instances, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad that we're living in the years of the Nerds,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I'm glad we're living at
Speaker 1: the I want to say Revenge because that's a problematic film,
Speaker 1: but but like we're the years of the Nerds with
Speaker 1: a z on it baby, it's hip hop, but yes. Uh.
Speaker 1: Virgil was like a nerd uh person almost like how
Speaker 1: they're trying to do Billy Batts and Shazam now. And
Speaker 1: now that I think about it, a person who dreams
Speaker 1: or or would like be like us dreams of power,
Speaker 1: fantasy dreams are being super and then you mess around
Speaker 1: and get super, you know, And that type of personality
Speaker 1: has a different reaction to becoming super. There's a different
Speaker 1: sort of responsibility because they're they're um, they're familiar with
Speaker 1: the fiction, you know, they're familiar with the responsibilities of it.
Speaker 1: So he didn't have to get taught that you have
Speaker 1: to go be a superhero. He knew he had to,
Speaker 1: but it was also still a problematic And it's also like,
Speaker 1: you know, your black mama, don't don't aunt aunt May
Speaker 1: went to sleep at seven and didn't know what was
Speaker 1: going on. I think you could go do everything. Virgil
Speaker 1: had a black mama, so it was a lot of
Speaker 1: machinations to get out of the house to go Yeah,
Speaker 1: well that's and that's the fun of it, And I
Speaker 1: like it's there's everything. I know, there's no way to
Speaker 1: really make this pop off, So I feel comfortable just
Speaker 1: openly talking about but like, after watching Black Panther, I
Speaker 1: went home and wrote a pitch for Static. I wrote,
Speaker 1: I made a whole deck. I like broke down the characters,
Speaker 1: like I was ready because I just had a contact.
Speaker 1: I couldn't like do it. And it was kind of
Speaker 1: and it was funny because the whole idea, the whole
Speaker 1: energy around the pitch was guys, this is y'all Spider Man.
Speaker 1: M this is y'all Spider Like. That was the pitch.
Speaker 1: This is y'all Spider Man. Like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: look at home Coming. You don't watch it come back?
Speaker 1: This is your Spider Man and so like and so.
Speaker 1: And that's what makes Virgil so cool is because you know,
Speaker 1: to go back to that old, old old at this
Speaker 1: point now Donald Glover quote where he's like, it was
Speaker 1: so weird that people didn't think Spider Man to be black,
Speaker 1: that they didn't believe that there's a black kid from
Speaker 1: Queens without parents who's really into science. You know. That
Speaker 1: is if you took the hero that everyone loved out
Speaker 1: of it and was like, this is the elements of
Speaker 1: a kid. That's that's what makes it more offensive is
Speaker 1: you would paint that as a black kid. You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he doesn't have parents and he's in queens. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's a black you know. But but you put
Speaker 1: a character that everyone wants to be and then then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden it was like, no, that's definitely
Speaker 1: a white thing, and and just just really quickly about
Speaker 1: his his overall story. Bottom line, he was a nerd kid,
Speaker 1: his friend was a big jock. His friend was getting
Speaker 1: outside pressure to do gang stuff and ended up in
Speaker 1: a thing called the Big Bang. Now, get your minds
Speaker 1: out of the gutter or out of space. The Big
Speaker 1: Bang was an event where all the gangs of Dakota
Speaker 1: warrior style decided to get together and fight. Now, they
Speaker 1: may have been pushed into that by other forces, but
Speaker 1: the bottom line is that together to a big fight.
Speaker 1: And at that big fight, the cops had wind of it,
Speaker 1: and this secret organization that I'm forgetting now had wind
Speaker 1: of it too, and so they thought, well, let's just
Speaker 1: eliminate all these fools, and or let's drop some stuff
Speaker 1: on them that will pacify them and ruin them, but
Speaker 1: as a super special mutagen. Basically, the bottom line, all
Speaker 1: the gang bangers are fighting warrior style, like can you
Speaker 1: dig it? Imagine that scene, can you dig it? And
Speaker 1: then the cops show up throwing gas canisters of super
Speaker 1: mutagen at gas and it killed everybody. People just died.
Speaker 1: It was horrible. It's like the nineteen seventeen. It was horrible.
Speaker 1: But the people that survived got unpredictable superpowers. And Virgil
Speaker 1: had gone to the Big Bang to try to save
Speaker 1: his friend and that's how he was exposed to the gas.
Speaker 1: So he got superpowers, and a multitude of other people
Speaker 1: in the city who were not heroic types, were not
Speaker 1: a nurse in the fiction, were not good people, you know,
Speaker 1: got a lot of powers. So that became the Rogues,
Speaker 1: Galleries and all the different a lot of the other
Speaker 1: characters in the Whole Mouths universe. And Blood Syndicate. Yes,
Speaker 1: absolutely that they were a street gang that I think
Speaker 1: the majority of them lived for some reason. They had
Speaker 1: something something in their makeup. A lot of their members died,
Speaker 1: but a lot of them lived. And the Blood Syndicate
Speaker 1: were unlike Virgil, they didn't have a lot of book
Speaker 1: learning and all this jazz. They were just a straight
Speaker 1: up street gang that was I think. They were called
Speaker 1: the Paris Bloods and they were trying to take care
Speaker 1: of their little patch of land. And so they went
Speaker 1: to the gang like the warrior style to do their thing,
Speaker 1: and the mutagen got on them. Uh, they became a
Speaker 1: gang with superpowers. So they want a gang would do.
Speaker 1: They went and beat up their enemies and then but
Speaker 1: the thing is that community started seeing them as like, well,
Speaker 1: y'all got all this power, why don't you help us?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, Yes, we'll give your gang tribute,
Speaker 1: that's fine, but help us please. So then they start
Speaker 1: busting down crack houses and stuff. And then but unlike
Speaker 1: a lot of heroes, they would take the money they
Speaker 1: burned up the crap. I could take the money. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like when I when I was just think
Speaker 1: about reading stuff like this when you're ten, when you're twelve,
Speaker 1: when you're fifteen or whatever. Just think about reading something
Speaker 1: like this at that time. How it like in forms
Speaker 1: your mind as to like, all these concepts can go
Speaker 1: with reality. It doesn't have to be so so so sucro,
Speaker 1: so so saccharin, so fake oology. It doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be that. It could be reality, reality and the real
Speaker 1: stresses of life. But again, who would bring that to
Speaker 1: the table. But minority creators, you know, because we have
Speaker 1: to deal with reality while we're you know, we don't
Speaker 1: have sabbaticals to think about all our projects. We don't
Speaker 1: get to backpack in Europe very much and think and
Speaker 1: to form who we are, you know, really get into it.
Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of time for naval gazing.
Speaker 1: We have to deal with real reality while we're trying
Speaker 1: to make our dreams happen. So that was it. And
Speaker 1: I didn't want to shout out one last comic before
Speaker 1: we start closing up, which was Zombie with an Axe,
Speaker 1: and it was about a Korean American scientists, so that
Speaker 1: that was cool because it's like, you know, and that's
Speaker 1: one of the I think lessons I want to take
Speaker 1: away from all this where it's like, you don't have
Speaker 1: to just stop, which uh with skin folk, you know
Speaker 1: you can, you can you can branch out without and
Speaker 1: also use that ability to represent others, uh, which I
Speaker 1: thought was real dope. And they didn't stop at that,
Speaker 1: And they also they didn't stop at black black people
Speaker 1: weren't perfect. In This and the and the blood Syneticka comic,
Speaker 1: they find out that one of their compadres who's a male.
Speaker 1: They find out that he actually got super When he
Speaker 1: got superpowers, he changed his sex because he was a
Speaker 1: woman and he always knew that he was a man.
Speaker 1: So when he got the power or yeah, when he
Speaker 1: got the power to change himself from biologically female to
Speaker 1: biologically male, he took that chance. But when people found
Speaker 1: out that he that he was that way, there were
Speaker 1: some problems. There wasn't always automatic acceptance. One of the
Speaker 1: team members was was Puerto Rican and black I think
Speaker 1: named Fade, who was like sort of an intangible vision
Speaker 1: type character and stuff who was gay and was hiding it.
Speaker 1: You know, There's a character called Flashback who was a
Speaker 1: literal crackhead. And I know how funny that can sound,
Speaker 1: but you're trying to do supermissions, but you're trying to
Speaker 1: squirrel away some crack too. I mean, just the problems
Speaker 1: that I just keep calling me man, you know that
Speaker 1: that whole thing to trying to be a superhero, that's
Speaker 1: straight up on crack That Another member named Boogeyman, who
Speaker 1: was a rat. He had turned into a humanoid rat
Speaker 1: when somebody comes in takes their powers away. One day,
Speaker 1: they find out he's white, and they they're very prejudice
Speaker 1: against him and try to kick him out of the
Speaker 1: group before cooler heads prevail. So you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's not about how black people are
Speaker 1: so perfect and white people are so evil and no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, there's anti this and anti that, anti blackness
Speaker 1: from black people, anti you know, uh, anti poor people's
Speaker 1: sentiments from black characters are ostensibly black characters. It was
Speaker 1: so complex, it was almost like a gad to die.
Speaker 1: It was too complex. The world wasn't ready for it. Right, Oh, man,
Speaker 1: that's that's freaking beautiful. So director of House Parties Ladies,
Speaker 1: Man Baby Kid Ready Hudlind Uh in two thousand and eleven,
Speaker 1: organized a launch party at Golden Apple, Los Angeles down
Speaker 1: the street UH for his website. Dwayne McDuffie, shortly following
Speaker 1: the release of his animated adaptation of All Star Superman,
Speaker 1: was scheduled to appear at the event. Cowen would be
Speaker 1: there too. McDuffie tragically passed a day before his scheduled appearance,
Speaker 1: and the loss Uh the launch party turned into a
Speaker 1: memorial for McDuffie. Hudlind said it was supposed to go
Speaker 1: from seven and nine end up starting at six. As
Speaker 1: soon as I got there, there was a mob around
Speaker 1: the block and went to about eleven o'clock. It just
Speaker 1: kept going and going. At a certain point, it seemed
Speaker 1: like every black creator on the West Coast was in
Speaker 1: the room. We all gave remarks about Dwayne. It was
Speaker 1: a celebration, joyce, it was all these things. Golden Apple
Speaker 1: had ordered all these extra books for the event, and
Speaker 1: by the end of the night, the stocks were bare.
Speaker 1: You could not find a copy of Black Panther or
Speaker 1: any black character in the place. Was just stripped. That
Speaker 1: My biggest regret in life is that I couldn't be here.
Speaker 1: You know that that this event has passed me and
Speaker 1: I couldn't have been there because I mean, like, like,
Speaker 1: there are a few events like this that are just
Speaker 1: moments that you missed. One of those moments was when
Speaker 1: Carl and Lamar flew out to S and L for
Speaker 1: Eddie's Uh he was at the after party, and I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, y'all couldn't give a memo, Huh can
Speaker 1: get him, you know? But yeah, so. But a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks later, many of the same names assembled at
Speaker 1: a more traditional memorial for McDuffie, and after the event,
Speaker 1: Darek goes to Dennis and myself and says, it's been
Speaker 1: too long. We have to restart Milestone. We're not just
Speaker 1: going to be a legacy company company, Hutlin said. There'll
Speaker 1: be some fantastic creations made. We're gonna certainly revive characters,
Speaker 1: but we're not just gonna revive them. We're gonna make
Speaker 1: them relevant for the generation. And uh so, so they're
Speaker 1: getting ready to just do this reboot. But then two
Speaker 1: years of illegal battles with d C followed, and the
Speaker 1: following July, d C Comics announced the creation of Earth
Speaker 1: M within their multiverse, which would be home to the
Speaker 1: earlier Milestone characters as well as new ones, and one
Speaker 1: or two Earth M Imprint titles would publish annually, as
Speaker 1: as well as mini series and one shots. No further
Speaker 1: developments took place until October two thousand and seventeen, and
Speaker 1: that's when they would be returning in two thousand and
Speaker 1: eighteen with five titles, including Milestone, a new static series
Speaker 1: duo which was based on the Zombies, and two other titles,
Speaker 1: Earth M and Love Army. But then Charlotte Charlotte Fulton Dway.
Speaker 1: McDuffie's widow, who had inherited his fifty percent share to
Speaker 1: the original Milestone, sued in August two thousands seventeen over
Speaker 1: being excluded from the revived company despite the new Milestone
Speaker 1: taking over the original Milestones. I P. So that's kind
Speaker 1: of where it kind of lasts. That's the last we've
Speaker 1: kind of heard of Milestone, and that's kind of why
Speaker 1: I think a lot of Milestone stuff And you know,
Speaker 1: there's people were trying to people were asking if Static
Speaker 1: would show up in the Black Lightning series and stuff
Speaker 1: what but but now but it's issues like that because yeah,
Speaker 1: they do all share part of that and now they're
Speaker 1: kind of dealing with that. I hope to see some
Speaker 1: more of them in the future. Uh. It's it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where I think it'll get worked out
Speaker 1: once they decide, once they know and get some good
Speaker 1: development on some of the One thing I gotta say though, this,
Speaker 1: I like Reginald Hudland. I know reginal Hudland. I have
Speaker 1: had meetings with Reginald Huntland. I have been attached to
Speaker 1: projects with reginal Hutland. Okay, I'm ready to say it. Reggie.
Speaker 1: The only part where Reggie's wrong in this is that
Speaker 1: every comic company is a nostalgia business. All of these
Speaker 1: storylines in every single one of these comic books that
Speaker 1: are sixties, seventies, eighties, closest to being of now a
Speaker 1: civil war. Civil War was was published in Marvel and
Speaker 1: like two thousand eight to them six. I'm like, at
Speaker 1: so that's still fourteen years old, but almost by the
Speaker 1: time it gets on screen, so it's like twenty year
Speaker 1: old and thirty year old and fourty year old. Things
Speaker 1: are literally what we're building these universes around. So the
Speaker 1: milestone comics that from my goofy youth as is, are revolutionary,
Speaker 1: as I have just elucidated just now you know what
Speaker 1: I mean to this podcast, so you can see that
Speaker 1: they were far ahead of their time, which means they
Speaker 1: write on time for right now. All this because concept
Speaker 1: of updating them, I just think it's not it's not
Speaker 1: necessarily wrong headed. Obviously there's gonna be some modifications that
Speaker 1: have to be made, but to say that they need
Speaker 1: an overhaul to be palatable to people of the now,
Speaker 1: it's a little to me, a little silly. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel based on everything we talked about in this episode.
Speaker 1: I think you can almost put Icon out as is
Speaker 1: a black Republican, you know, with all the infighting in
Speaker 1: within our communities now, you know, I think across people
Speaker 1: of color, not just black people. Just imagine him having
Speaker 1: to go somebody asking Icon, how can you still be
Speaker 1: a Republican giving what's going on right now, and him
Speaker 1: having to give an honest answer or do something with
Speaker 1: the superpowers to change that. Just imagine that. I also
Speaker 1: want to say I might be working on something that
Speaker 1: has a black Republican and that started before this conversation. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want to say that full disclosure. I'm about
Speaker 1: to write a Blessed to Get movie tomorrow. Also, speaking
Speaker 1: of um, if your sci fi is a great debate,
Speaker 1: Reginald Hudlin shared my great debate video, So he will
Speaker 1: always have a soft spot in my heart. And also
Speaker 1: he follows me and is great. He's a brilliant person.
Speaker 1: No I know. Yeah, So it's at that point I
Speaker 1: just think it's like we kind of get told that
Speaker 1: we have to change so much that even somebody as
Speaker 1: much in the industry as him and as great as
Speaker 1: him can be kind of told a couple of things
Speaker 1: of a few too many times where they kind of
Speaker 1: seep in and I just think he knows that we
Speaker 1: could drop these joints right now. Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call him bout this, like, hey, Veggie, come on, we
Speaker 1: can tell you all right, well, uh, it's time to
Speaker 1: say goodbye to everyone and you know, get get get
Speaker 1: back to getting where the getting at where people find you.
Speaker 1: Did you hear that slurp when I was slurper dumbant?
Speaker 1: So that's not what I was. I was just trying
Speaker 1: to cut off if before he said something that we'd
Speaker 1: have to cut off anyway, Okay, you know what you'd
Speaker 1: have to cut off? Where can we catch you at?
Speaker 1: You can check me out on Screen Junkies at eleven
Speaker 1: Pacific standard time every Monday and Tuesday. It's YouTube channels
Speaker 1: got about seven million subscribers. We talked about pop culture
Speaker 1: news and I seem to be the Minister of hot
Speaker 1: takes over there. And you can also check me out
Speaker 1: at ed Greed Destroyers on Twitter and Instagram. On Instagram
Speaker 1: you see my art and my podcast promos, and on
Speaker 1: Twitter you see my goofy thoughts and uh, last things last,
Speaker 1: I have a podcast called nerd Goat Podcast where we
Speaker 1: talked to interesting people like yourself about their favorite fictional character.
Speaker 1: I love it. It's going strong. We've got a strong Patreon.
Speaker 1: It's paying a couple of bills every month. It's like
Speaker 1: it's like a real, real thing. But last things last,
Speaker 1: we have a thing called reboot It, which I'm very
Speaker 1: proud of. It's our YouTube channel. Me Billy Business from
Speaker 1: Screen Junkies and my Tuoka, patres, Ron Swallow and Bill
Speaker 1: Costanzo from nerd Goat. We're sit in a room and
Speaker 1: John Peters, the legendary producer, has put us in this room,
Speaker 1: and he gives us a dictate that we must reboot
Speaker 1: Back to the Future in an hour. We must reboot
Speaker 1: James Bond in an hour. We must reboot Star Wars
Speaker 1: in an hour. And we do it. We do it
Speaker 1: in an hour and one take, one continuous take, no editing,
Speaker 1: and it's just it's a fantastic thought experiment. I would
Speaker 1: really like people to check it out. Reboot it YouTube page,
Speaker 1: reboot it. Love it so cool. Um and I need
Speaker 1: to come back on nerd Goats different. You know we're
Speaker 1: gonna do villains this time, So both of you guys
Speaker 1: are going to come on and do your favorite fictional
Speaker 1: villains and it's gonna Nerd goes evil. My guy's kind
Speaker 1: of a villain, but just misunderstood. Now he's he's he's
Speaker 1: a hero. Now I'm at Miss Danny Fernan is on
Speaker 1: all the things, y'all. I wrote in a book called
Speaker 1: The Good Immigrant, which I've promoted here and there the
Speaker 1: last year. It's a collection of essays from authors of color,
Speaker 1: and now it's on audible so you can hear me.
Speaker 1: You love my voice so much, you can hear me
Speaker 1: read my essay because now you can get it on audible,
Speaker 1: and all of the authors, I think, except for maybe
Speaker 1: just one um because of scheduling conflicts, you can listen
Speaker 1: to them read their essay. It's also out on paperback,
Speaker 1: so check that out. And if he where can everyone
Speaker 1: catch you? You You can catch me at if you wide
Speaker 1: away on Twitter and Instagram. If the s on Twitch
Speaker 1: every night Monday through Thursday at eleven pm Eastern eight
Speaker 1: pm Pacific time on super Punch Superpunch powered by Twitch.
Speaker 1: We're doing weird stuff popped by uh. And see how
Speaker 1: many times I referenced Bible black Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: like we always say, every week at the end of
Speaker 1: the episode and time it perfectly stay. We did