WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Cooking and Friends with Nancy Rommelmann 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.640 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:12.039 During a recent episode of The Big Podcast with Shack, 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:16.280 the ex NBA star had on Jason Kelsey, who is 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:23.200 retiring from NFL football after playing for the stinky Philadelphia Eagles. Sorry, 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.280 I'm a Cowboys fan. I had to include that Jason 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:30.000 Kelcey is married to Kylie Kelsey and the two have 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.760 been in the public eye more often recently since Jason's 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.680 brother Travis started dating Taylor Swift and a lot more 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:39.839 interest into the Kelsey family and their podcast and everything, 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:42.159 so we kind of know a little bit about the relationship. 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:46.480 On Shaq's show, Shaq was talking about his own retirement 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:49.159 and he told Jason, quote, I made a lot of 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.520 dumbass mistakes to where I lost my family and didn't 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.160 have anyone. I was an idiot. I lost my whole family. 0:00:56.720 --> 0:00:59.720 I'm in a one hundred thousand square foot house by 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:03.520 my end quote. I of course clicked on the comments 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:06.000 under the clips of these comments that he made on 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:10.120 his show, and they were generally saying that Shaq cheated 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:13.240 on his wife with like hundreds of women and destroyed 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:16.440 their relationship. I assume that's true, and I assume that 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:20.040 that's what Shack means by the mistakes he's made. I've 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:24.479 seen such an uptick in podcasts and just general kind 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.160 of clips and information aimed at men telling them that 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.440 if they're on the path to making money, then they'd 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.440 be suckers to settle down with just one woman. It's 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:38.640 such bad advice, and everyone knows that. Like one loser 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.720 bro who insists that men are only as faithful as 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:45.600 their options, implying that men with money should get to cheat, 0:01:45.760 --> 0:01:48.920 and any man not cheating just doesn't have the opportunity. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:52.000 That guy is said, don't be like that guy. What 0:01:52.080 --> 0:01:54.760 Shaq is saying is that you can have all the money, 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:57.120 but if you throw away your family along the way, 0:01:57.240 --> 0:01:59.400 then it will not have been worth it. And you know, 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.120 that's like the most obvious advice ever. The image of 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:06.320 him in his ten thousand square foot house alone is 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:11.200 actually really depressing. There's this trope that if you're rich 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.000 and you're sad, then you could just dry your tears 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.840 with your money. Well, here's an incredibly wealthy man issuing 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.160 a warning to another man to not end up in 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.720 his same situation, and he seemed to be specifically telling 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.200 Jason Kelsey this because when Jason retires and suddenly has 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.520 a lot of time on his hands, not practicing, not playing, 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:37.320 maybe Shack understands that times of change like that can 0:02:37.360 --> 0:02:40.960 make a wealthy man more susceptible to making mistakes or 0:02:41.000 --> 0:02:43.960 being put in situation where those mistakes are more likely. 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:46.720 I think it's interesting to think about the times in 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:51.560 your life where something could trigger you to feel unsettled 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.560 or uncomfortable in your life. If you get used to 0:02:54.600 --> 0:02:57.000 doing something like having a career and then you don't 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.520 have it, that can definitely leave you susceptible to maybe 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:04.440 acting out. For the average person when you're going through 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.480 a time of change, whether moving like we've talked about 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.560 on the show, or your kids leaving the house, or 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:12.240 making any big changes to your life, I think it's 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.160 smart advice to be extra careful about what you're doing 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.280 and who you're doing it with. You don't want to 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.120 be like Shaq alone in his ten thousand square foot house. 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.919 Coming up next and interview with Nancy Rammelman. Join us 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:29.840 after the break. Welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show 0:03:29.880 --> 0:03:34.639 on iHeartRadio. My guest today is Nancy Rammelman. Nancy is 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:38.240 a journalist who writes for such publications as Reason and 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.119 The Free Press, as well as writing the substack Make 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:44.760 More Pie, and co host of the podcast Smoke Them 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.640 If You Got Them. Hi, Nancy, Good morning Carol. I'm 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:50.240 so happy to be here. I'm so happy to have you. 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.840 I have to say that we talk on this show 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:58.280 a lot about making friends, especially after moves, because so 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.480 many people have moved in the last few years, you know, 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.680 the Great Migration, And you moved from Portland to New York. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:09.320 What year was that, July twenty nineteen, twenty nineteen. I 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:11.839 knew it was pre pandemic, which is rare because most 0:04:11.880 --> 0:04:14.600 of these big moves are happening, you know, during the pandemic, 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:16.960 right and you you know, you already had a lot 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:19.960 of friends in New York. But you have this amazing 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.520 social gravitational pull. I just see you as this like warm, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.799 welcoming person who everyone wants to be around. Like, whenever 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.560 I see you, I smile. How do you do that? 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.240 How do you help other people do that? 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:34.600 This is very funny because when we were talking about 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.039 the questions you're going to ask that you like to 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:40.680 ask your guests. I will I will say that one 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:42.920 thing is that I love to cook, and it's not 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.680 so fun to just cook for yourself, so you wind 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:50.080 up opening your home. But also I just like it, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:53.680 and people like to not just be on their computers. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:56.080 You want to meet new people. You don't know what's 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:57.559 happening all the time. 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.800 And when I got this little place, I had moved Fromland. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:02.320 Moore, had like, you know, a four bedroom house with 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:03.080 a garage, the. 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:05.080 Whole kind of thing, to all of a sudden, this 0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:08.200 little place in Chinatown, and it was just super fun 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:10.599 to build it out and build a sound studio and 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:11.159 have people in. 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.359 And then, as you know, because you were here a few. 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.039 Times during the pandemic, you know, we all kind of 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.920 went into our houses for about eight weeks and then 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:22.240 I was like, no, we're having We're going to have 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:22.960 people over for lunch. 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:23.800 We're just going to do it. 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:25.719 And I was back and forth between reporting on the 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:28.039 riots in Portland, but when I was home, I was like, 0:05:28.120 --> 0:05:29.839 let's just let's just open the doors. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:35.600 And people really needed it, and we just never stopped. Yeah. Yeah, 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:38.559 I was at a party at your house in June 0:05:38.640 --> 0:05:41.760 twenty twenty one, so still you know, pretty pandemic. Ye, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.479 it was amazing, and we like we had my husband 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.800 and I were there and it was just this amazing party. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:51.400 And then like some friends of ours who like aren't 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:55.200 in our you know, writer political world, texted and they're like, Hey, 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:56.880 we're out in the city. You guys around And I 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:58.360 was like, Oh, we're at this party, you know, come 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.120 by and they still talk about your party. They're still 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:05.040 like that party, you know, June twenty twenty one, just 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.920 this amazing, amazing time. It was something that people really 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.039 weren't doing. And again, I just think you have this 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:15.320 ability to bring people together, Like, do you have any 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.480 advice for people on how to be I mean other 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.640 than learn how to cook like you, how do you 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:23.520 navigate having people like you know, how do you attract 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.720 people to you the way you do? Tell us everything 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:28.200 what you see. 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.080 I think I just really like having people around and 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:35.400 also being able to connect people. I mean, you know this, 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:38.480 when we've been at parties here, it's not like everybody 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:40.400 has the same opinions or they come from the same 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.200 world at all, and you sort of put them in 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:47.000 the super collider and then you're just all enjoying each other. 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:48.640 And first of all, first of all, tell your friends 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:53.440 they're welcome back anytime, never the address. And I don't know, 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.040 I think especially we may have noticed this more Carol, 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.320 because it was so stark during the pandemic. I remember 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.200 when I first started to have the lunches here. I 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:05.160 think it was August twenty twenty, which, you know, still 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:06.480 really in the thicket things, right. 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:07.279 It was so funny. 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.320 People would creep in here like they had not left 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:10.760 their house in three months, and. 0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:14.520 Then they remembered, Oh, we really really need this and 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.240 really want this. I just like doing it. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.240 I had people here the other day. It was the 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:20.840 super Bowl, where about have six or eight people. I 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:22.880 invited a friend of mine who's in a play right here, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:24.400 and he's like, well, I can't come, but the whole 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:25.240 cast wants to come. 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:27.760 I'm like sure. I had eight people i'd never met 0:07:27.760 --> 0:07:30.320 here for the super Bowl and it was great. It 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:33.600 was great. So yeah, I just took a lot. So 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.160 how did you become a writer? What was your path 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:37.320 to it? So? 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.560 I moved to Los Angeles from New York City, where 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:44.960 I'm from when I was twenty four, and I had 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.440 a baby not that long after, and at the time. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:49.000 I'd gone to La to be a movie star, as 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:54.200 I'm sure you can guess. And I started reading scripts 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:56.360 for a living when I was pregnant, which is like 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.640 you'd go Julia Roberts agent would give you a script 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:02.360 and read it and do a summation and then recommended 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.400 or not. And I got really fast at it, and 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:05.720 I could do it at home, and I knew I 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.400 wanted to be home with my kids. Plus we didn't 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:08.560 have any money. It wasn't like I was going to 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.240 hire someone to raise my kid, right, And then that 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:15.720 segued into journalism, and by the time I was thirty, 0:08:16.120 --> 0:08:18.400 I never had another job. It was also, you know, 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.080 it was the nineties. There was a lot of money 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:22.760 in You could make money pretty easily. You could write 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.320 for a ton of places, and I just it turned 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:27.400 out I was good at it and I. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.000 Loved it, and I've never I knew the minute I 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:29.280 did my. 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:32.640 First article of Carol, which was a like five hundred 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:36.440 word piece on genital piercing, which is so old. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.400 Whatever it was the next where was that published? 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:42.760 Okay, so it was this lad magazine called Bikini, which 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:43.800 was also part of Ray Gun. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.880 Maybe this is a billion years ago. But anyway, they 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.640 sent me to do this article about genital this salon. 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:51.680 I'm like, wow, I go to this place in Lost Bilis. 0:08:51.720 --> 0:08:54.040 I'm talking to these people. This couple walks in. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:56.400 They're like, you know, in their twenties, and they said 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.240 they were getting their engagement rings or wedding rinks. And 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:01.079 I was like, well, what are you going to do 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:04.320 when people ask to see them? And she's like, well, 0:09:04.320 --> 0:09:06.120 we'll show them. And I was like, that's it. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.320 I'm never having another job. That's it. Like this is 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.120 magic and I never have I've never had another job. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.440 So do you feel like you've made it? I think 0:09:15.480 --> 0:09:16.679 it depends on the week. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.840 You know, sometimes you have really good weeks. I can't 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.560 remember what the exact expression. Expression expression is. It's like, 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.800 you know, writing is no fun or or not writing 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:30.560 is no fun, but having written. 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:31.360 Is the best feeling. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:35.160 So when you see you know, you know, yeah, you've 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.839 finished that piece and you just can you can dine 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.640 out on it for a matter of hours or even days. 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:42.319 But then it's like the gas runs out of tank 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:44.080 and you just got to just have to keep working. 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.000 Yeah, sometimes you feel. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:48.040 Great, you have a book that's published, or you do 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.679 a story that really moves people and then you communicate 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:53.160 with them and then that leads to the. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:55.679 Next article and you can feel really good. But then 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:58.319 when you're not haven't written for a little while, you 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:04.000 just feel crappy and have I made it? I don't know. So, yeah, 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:08.040 that feeling of publishing. I mean when I publish in 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.360 the post, for example, I used to just do it 0:10:11.360 --> 0:10:14.920 would be Mondays, so Sunday night it would hit the 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.440 internet and I had like Sunday night, I'd be refreshing, 0:10:17.520 --> 0:10:19.560 And you know, it was years in. It wasn't like 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.520 my first, my tenth or my fiftieth article at that point. 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.880 It was years and years and years and I still 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.560 like loved it so much, and I totally get that feeling. 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.360 And I have to say, I think I avoid places. 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.640 I avoid writing for places where I don't know when 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:35.559 it's going to run, because I'm like, no, I need 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:37.199 I need to know. I need to know when I'm 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.840 going to get that boost of like happiness and my 0:10:40.000 --> 0:10:43.040 piece is out there. And yeah, when. 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:44.599 You're funny working on a piece for a while in 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.199 your letter, like when is it going to run? Yeah? Hello, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.720 I wrote book reviews for a long time for the 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.440 Wall Street Journal, and they have a fantastic Saturday section. 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:58.000 And yeah, every time I'd be like, I have h yeah, 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.520 I know, babe had went two weeks, it goes like 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:05.840 last Saturday, right, Yeah, there's Saturday newspapers. 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:08.440 It's a great it's a great section. It's a great session. 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:11.280 So if you weren't doing this, if you needed a 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:15.160 plan B, what would it be. Probably work as a baker. 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:17.600 I had worked as a baker, like when I first 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.439 went to LA and then when my husband had a 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.600 series of coffee shops, I'd baked for his coffee shops 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:22.280 for about a year. 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:25.320 But I really just bak for pleasure. So I don't 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:27.040 know if I want to do it as a job. 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.800 You know, I always thought this is going to sound 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.920 so ridiculous when I go with pharmacy and get my 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:36.520 get a prescription filled, and I always watched the farm 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.400 and it's so organized and clean, and I was like, 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:40.839 that'dn't be a bad gig. 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.000 Yeah, working, I don't think this sounds ridiculous at all. 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:46.200 My plan B is I think i'd be a really 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:51.760 good DJ. So so you know, it's dream big on 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:54.880 this show is really you know what it's all about. 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.640 You want to be a pharmacist back there with your clean, 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.240 organized world, like organizing everything. I see it. I could, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.040 you know, I need things orderly? Yeah can Yeah. I 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.040 feel like yours requires a lot more school than mine, though. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.520 My plan B and you could just do it tonight, girl, right, 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.080 get everybody's dancing, And that's really I feel like I could. 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.320 I think I could just organize music well, like I could, Like, 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.200 I know what people want to hear next, if they're happy. 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.840 You know, I have zero skills in that area. So 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.480 I'm coming. I love it. We're going to take a 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:29.840 quick break and be right back on the Carol marco 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:38.680 It Show. So you recently went to Israel, which seemed 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:42.000 like an amazing trip. How was it, As you know, 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.000 Israel is complicated, It's always a complicated place. 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.760 And then to drop in when they have I was 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.440 on the Bill Schultz Show yesterday and I compared it 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:51.920 to be getting kicked in the heart. 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.920 They not not just the emotional stuff, but. 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:58.559 They really have to have a real reset in how 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:02.280 they think about how their own survival, of their government, 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:07.400 of the military, and I it was a difficult trip 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.719 in terms of the people I hung out with, I 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:15.440 hung out for four days, that the missing hostages and 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.360 families for them, these are I'm talking to mothers whose 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:21.000 children are still in Gaza and they're still there now. 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:25.320 This is not easy. However, that piece ran in reason. 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:31.840 To see how the country pulled together after October seventh, 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:33.800 you know, especially in light of the fact that for 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.720 the past you know, fourteen months they've been rebelling against 0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:40.880 their own government, is pretty amazing. And you realize what 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.840 is baked into the Israeli psyche is that they need 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.920 to save their own lives. They're never going back to 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.800 what it used to be. Ever, that's not going to happen, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.320 and so to be around that is pretty amazing. 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:56.680 One thing I also love about. 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.960 Being in Israel, especially in Tel Aviv, is this constant 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.880 everybody looks you in the eye, everyone wants to talk 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.400 to you, and there's just this incredible energy going. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.160 I feel like that might just be you. But okay, no, 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.800 I know, what do you think? I don't know. I 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.640 don't know. I love Israeli as I'm married to an Israeli. 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:16.160 You know, I have a lot of Israeli friends. I 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:20.600 would not say that they are extra friendly. Well, I 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:24.560 don't know, friendly is the world. They're very very willing 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:28.440 to be confrontational. How's that right, Like right, yes, for sure, yes, 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:34.960 very willing to be confrontation. No, no, no, no, I 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.280 you know I had I had an Israeli friend say 0:14:37.280 --> 0:14:40.640 to me something like, you know, the trans insanity that 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.720 we're going through in America could never happen in Israel 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:45.800 because they'd be like, no, what are you crazy? No, like, 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.760 you know, no, no, biological boys can play in girls 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.720 sports next, Like, they just they're not polite. They're not 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:54.040 polite enough to be like, well, I don't know, let 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.200 me think about your feelings, like no, you know. 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.000 No, they're they're they're like New Yorkers that way, yeah 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:00.400 or whatever. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.840 We're just like no, we're just getting onto the next 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.720 topic here. We're not going to fool around this. Except 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.440 I feel like New Yorkers have like slid off of 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:09.880 that a little bit in the last I mean that 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.560 the pandemic, you know, obviously crushed my feelings on badass 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.360 New Yorkers standing up for it. But you know, and 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.480 I have definitely concerns about the migrant situation and the 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.960 fact that New Yorkers are not like kind of fighting 0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:25.320 back on it, Like, you know, people are suffering in 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:28.400 the city, and yet like the people who are coming 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:30.960 here legally get all this free stuff. And it's it's 0:15:31.000 --> 0:15:33.080 hard for me to watch New Yorkers just roll over. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.880 Especially the pandemic was really the that point for me 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.200 where I don't think, you know, Israelis would necessarily I 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.160 mean they kind of did also, so I shouldn't say that. 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:45.640 Yeah, New York was a was a strange place. I 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.560 was traveling a lot during the pandemic because I was 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.480 covering the situation in Portland. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:52.960 But I was surprised, as a you. 0:15:52.920 --> 0:15:56.600 Know, born and bred New Yorker at how sort of 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:58.400 obedient people. 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:02.520 Want complacent like the place and see. Yeah, I remember 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:03.400 taking off my mask. 0:16:03.440 --> 0:16:05.600 I don't remember the exact date, but it was definitely 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.480 before we were allowed to and I'm like, screwid, I'm 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.800 not I'm not doing it. So, yeah, get some dirty 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:12.640 hooks on the subway. 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.720 I don't care. Right, was it your first trip to Israel? 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:17.600 My second? 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:23.600 So you may recall back in November twenty twenty twenty three, No, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:24.480 twenty twenty two. 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:27.760 The reasonally crue ones. Yeah, well not really reason so much. 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.280 It was the Israeli consulate here took over a bunch 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.200 of journalists. It was Matt Well to Michael moynihan and 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:33.640 me the reason CR. 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:41.240 And we all went over on their dime but zero obligation. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.160 And I went over early with and they've talked about 0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.640 it at this point, so it's no with Leifang and 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.040 Jesse's single and we toured around with bits l M 0:16:49.240 --> 0:16:52.280 very left wing group, which was actually really. 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.640 Smart to do because it was a complicated country. They 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.000 don't all agree, so you can kind of get a sense. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:00.760 And I was in Hebron at that point, and I 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:03.480 was back and he Brew on this trip, and that 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.040 is a weird place, as you may or may not know. 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.199 Yeah, very very strange. So what was strange about it 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.000 for people who may not well? So it's cut in. 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.360 It's split into you've got H one and H two 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.600 and H one and I'm hopefully I'm not swapping these. 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:21.880 H one is where it's all Palestinian, right. You live there, 0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:23.400 there's economy, you. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:25.399 Walk in bebbe clothes. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:27.919 Turkish coffee. It's just like a busy busy you know, 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.560 you pay in Mexico City or something though it's also 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:35.359 sort of depressed because it's isolated and it's surrounded and 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.240 you have to like get in and out of checkpoints 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.360 that are run by the Israeli military, and certain things 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.920 were closed down, but it's still very vibrant. 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.919 You cross over to the other side and everything is 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:49.240 boarded up and sealed up, all the buildings, there's nothing. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:53.600 It's truly ghosty. It's looked over by the Israeli military. 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:55.920 If you are Palestinian, you can live there, but you 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.160 can't have a car, so you can't really get any 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:02.560 place unless you us into H one, which is easy. 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:04.600 Oh, but then getting out. 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.879 That's kind of up to the two Israeli guards that 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.119 are at the gate. So maybe they wait you, you 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:12.200 wait three minutes, maybe you wait three hours in the 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:16.000 rain with your kids. Like it's weird, it's messed up, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:18.760 and there's reasons. I hung out with the Palestinian activist, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.360 I hung out with settlers, and they can both tell 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.320 you they all want the same thing, but they see 0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:27.720 it from different ends of the tube. And frankly, they 0:18:27.760 --> 0:18:31.399 both have points. They both have points. So that's an 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.040 interesting piece that I have to get to. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:35.960 I have to write this. Yeah, I can't wait to 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:39.280 read it. Do you feel like you know what you're 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.240 talking about? Like Israeli unity right now? You know the 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:46.920 post October seventh moment. Do you feel like America can 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:49.600 ever get to a similar place of unity? Like I 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.360 don't feel like a terrorist attack like that would unite us. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.639 I don't think. I feel like I don't know if 0:18:54.640 --> 0:18:57.159 those days are even possible, the post nine to eleven unity, 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.119 for example. I don't think we could ever do that again. 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:07.000 I think that something happened around twenty fifteen twenty sixteen, 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.560 when Trump was stole the nominee. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.560 People kind of lost their minds. On both sides. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.840 You had the Trump derangement syndrome, and then you had 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:20.919 the Trump epiphantic love affair. You know, I see the 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.280 portraits of Trump as Jesus, and I'm like, hi, everyone, 0:19:24.400 --> 0:19:29.639 maybe stop drinking the kool aid and we It just 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:35.280 split people so intensely, and everybody believes not only that 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.840 they're right, but that the other side is driving this 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:39.760 country into hell. 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:42.840 I think, you know, I don't belong to any of 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:44.000 either of these tribes. 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:48.040 And as a journalist who absolutely adores getting in my 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:51.639 car and driving around this country, and talking to people 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:56.440 in Texas, in Kansas, in Oklahoma, in New York State. 0:19:57.400 --> 0:19:58.679