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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Solid Verbal Hell that for me, I'm

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Speaker 1: a man, I'm forty.

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Speaker 2: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to

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Speaker 2: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?

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Speaker 1: Edith Steak is that whoo whoo?

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Speaker 2: And then and Tye, welcome back to the Solid Rebel

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Speaker 2: boys and girls. My name is ty Hildenbrandt. Dan Rubinstein's

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Speaker 2: in California right now, so you're stuck with me today.

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Speaker 1: But I've got a.

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Speaker 2: Special guest going to talk with our friend Pete Sampson

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Speaker 2: of the Athletic. It has been a very active off

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Speaker 2: season for all things Notre Dame. I want to talk

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Speaker 2: to him about Tommy Reese. I want to talk to

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Speaker 2: him about Sam Hartman, about new coaches, about this ongoing

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Speaker 2: conference realignment discussion that we continue to have, if only

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Speaker 2: because we have to, so stay tuned for that. That'll

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Speaker 2: come up here in just a few moments. Head on

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Speaker 2: out to verbalers dot com if you want to help

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Speaker 2: support the podcast, it's the best way to do so.

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Speaker 2: You get access to our discord. If nothing more, make

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Speaker 2: sure you go on out to YouTube, subscribe to the channel,

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Speaker 2: make sure you hit subscribe on whatever podcasting app of

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Speaker 2: choice is yours. We'd love to have you with us

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Speaker 2: all off season long. We do two public episodes per week.

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Speaker 2: We also offer the bonus stuff on our Patreon. Dan'll

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Speaker 2: be back next week. In the meantime, let's just jump

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Speaker 2: right in. Let's talk to our friend Pete Sampson of

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Speaker 2: the Athletic. All right, joining me now, longtime friend of

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Speaker 2: the verbal. You know him from the Athletic, you know

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Speaker 2: him from the Shamrock podcast. You know him as Pete Sampson, Sir,

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Speaker 2: How you doing good?

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Speaker 3: Sort of enjoying a slow off season for the last

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Speaker 3: forty eight hours because the rest of it has been

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Speaker 3: a little bit nuts around here. But yeah, spring practice

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Speaker 3: is it's hard to believe it's two weeks away and

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Speaker 3: we've yet to talk to Sam Hartman, which is sort

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Speaker 3: of like the big thing here, So very very interested

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Speaker 3: to do that this week.

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Speaker 2: Was there ever a moment in time where you were

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Speaker 2: concerned that Sam Hartman might leave too?

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Speaker 3: Yes, because I mean, these grad transfers are such business decisions,

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Speaker 3: right Like, I don't think there's a lot of grad

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Speaker 3: transfers are coming to play for our lady on the

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Speaker 3: Dome or you know, spend some time.

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Speaker 1: At the the grotto.

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Speaker 3: It's you know, how do I get in better position

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Speaker 3: to make it at the NFL? And you know, say

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Speaker 3: what you want about Tommy Reese, it's a very pro

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Speaker 3: style approach, sophisticated offense, and that's what Hartman was looking for. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think even in Jared Parker, the new

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Speaker 3: offensive coordinator's introduction, he acknowledged I think he used the

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Speaker 3: word anxiety with Sam Hartman and getting with him and

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Speaker 3: sort of explaining, Okay, here's what we're going to do,

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Speaker 3: you know, and Marcus Freeman's talking about pro style, pro style,

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Speaker 3: pro style. But yeah, it's like you got to Sam

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Speaker 3: Hartman came here as a business decision, and then the

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Speaker 3: reason of that business headed to Alabama. So I think

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Speaker 3: getting that settled and we'll talk to Hartman for the

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Speaker 3: first time on Wednesday this week.

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Speaker 1: That's that was That's significant.

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Speaker 2: What what questions do you have for him?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, how he processed Reese's departure. You know,

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Speaker 3: the reason he came to notre name left, So how

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Speaker 3: do you how do you sort of view the experience

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Speaker 3: here and and how it's changed after essentially two months.

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Speaker 3: That's the biggest one. And then you know sort of

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Speaker 3: why he decided to do the the sixth year at all.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's my understanding he was sort of a

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Speaker 3: late round draft pick, as is, how much can that

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Speaker 3: improve coming to Underdame?

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Speaker 1: What what does he.

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Speaker 3: Want to improve coming to Unredame, you know, And then

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Speaker 3: I think just sort of what what his expectations are

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Speaker 3: for for this offense here and what he could do.

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Speaker 3: And I mean, he's put up ridiculous numbers at Wake Forest,

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Speaker 3: but you know, he's never had an offensive line quite

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Speaker 3: like the one he's going to play behind a Notre Dame.

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Speaker 3: You know, how does that sort of factor into where

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Speaker 3: he wants to be and how you know how coming

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Speaker 3: to nor Name can help him from an NFL point

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Speaker 3: of view.

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Speaker 2: Pete, do you have any sense for the chronology of

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Speaker 2: events with respect to Hartman coming to Notre Dame, Because oftentimes,

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Speaker 2: right when we hear about a player throwing his name

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Speaker 2: in the transfer portal, we're the last to know. There's

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Speaker 2: been a lot going on behind the scenes. As he

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Speaker 2: just said, Tommy Reeves, maybe the reason that Hartman came

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Speaker 2: to end to start, what did that process look like.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think that they were sort of

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Speaker 3: kicking the tires on that from very third party points

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Speaker 3: of view for a while. You know, it's not I

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Speaker 3: always say like it's sort of like rounders. If you

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Speaker 3: just can't spot the sucker at the table in the

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Speaker 3: first ten minutes, you're the sucker. Like if a kid

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Speaker 3: enters the transfer portal you don't know where he's going,

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Speaker 3: you're the sucker.

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Speaker 1: He's not coming to you.

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Speaker 3: So you got you got to do your leg work

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Speaker 3: ahead of time on that and be prepared for this stuff.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's a tangential relationship there where you know, Reese,

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Speaker 3: who is Tommy's dad, who was in scouting at Notre Dame,

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Speaker 3: was actually a wake Forest when they.

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Speaker 1: Recruited Sam Hartman.

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Speaker 3: So it's not it's not like they didn't know what

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Speaker 3: they would be getting into there from the get go.

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Speaker 3: But I think there was a lot of consternation around

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame of nil how is this going to factor

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Speaker 3: into it? Is going to work against Notre Dame, whether

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Speaker 3: that be Florida was a possibility that was sort of

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Speaker 3: rumored for Sam Hartman, and I don't have really a

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Speaker 3: great understanding of you know what the nil opportunities are

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Speaker 3: for Hartman at Notre Dame other than just to say

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Speaker 3: that the quarterback at Notre Dame is a very lucrative position,

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Speaker 3: and I think that he will be He'll monetize that

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Speaker 3: because it would be hard not to. But I think

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Speaker 3: for most of it, Hartman was looking for a bigger

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Speaker 3: stage that most importantly was going to turn him into

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Speaker 3: a better pro prospect. So that's that's sort of where

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Speaker 3: like the biggest question is like, Okay, well, is Notreame

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Speaker 3: still the place that's going to turn you in a

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Speaker 3: better pro prospect. That's that's one of Marcus Freeman and

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Speaker 3: Jared Parker's big big points to convince Hartman about. And

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Speaker 3: you know, I think that's that's where spring practice is

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Speaker 3: significant in a different way for Notre Dame, because Hartman's

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Speaker 3: going to have to know you're gonna want to prove

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Speaker 3: it to him a little bit that yeah, we're pushing

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Speaker 3: your game forward in a an NFL developmental kind of way.

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Speaker 2: I will say I was very reassured after the news

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Speaker 2: broke from you and others about Tommy Reese going to Alabama.

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Speaker 2: I think it was that Friday night, Sam Hartman posted

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Speaker 2: a video on his Twitter of him working late Friday

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Speaker 2: night weight room. It felt to me like that is

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Speaker 2: not something you post if you are planning on leaving

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Speaker 2: and going elsewhere. So obviously things can change very quickly

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Speaker 2: in college football, But at least for the moment, I

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Speaker 2: feel I feel somewhat confident that we're in a good place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I think that's if he has a good experience in

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Speaker 3: spring practice. I think I know he's had a good experience,

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Speaker 3: just sort of like being at Notre Dame and you know,

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Speaker 3: the culture of the program, and just like the guys

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Speaker 3: here are like the guys probably he was with at

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Speaker 3: Wake Forest. Like that's a positive. So all signs point

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Speaker 3: to like this will work out just fine, But there

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Speaker 3: is always that flicker of like, Okay, college football is

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Speaker 3: a very drunk sport. Anything could happen at any time.

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Speaker 3: You'd never want to rule anything out. But I think

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Speaker 3: that overwhelmingly stuff isn't a good spot with Hartman and

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame. The longer this goes on, and that once

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Speaker 3: spring practice starts in a couple of weeks, I think

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Speaker 3: it will further kind of strengthen Notre Dame's position in

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Speaker 3: Hartman's relationships here.

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Speaker 2: I was hoping you could help us unpack the whole

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Speaker 2: Reese thing. If that's okay. I'm sure you've probably grown

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Speaker 2: a little bit tired of talking about it. But you know,

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Speaker 2: after Brian Kelly left, the partnership between Marcus Freeman and

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Speaker 2: Tommy Reese was something that I think was very easy

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Speaker 2: to get behind. Right, even people who didn't like Notre

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Speaker 2: Dame found that easy to root for. There was, I think,

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Speaker 2: from a Notre Dame fans perspective, a sense of continuity

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Speaker 2: that was reassuring about that setup and played out. You know,

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Speaker 2: I think we can debate the merits of what went

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Speaker 2: right what went wrong, but I was hoping you could

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Speaker 2: give us some insight into what was that relationship like

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Speaker 2: between Freeman and Reese.

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Speaker 3: I mean, my understand talking to sources very close to

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Speaker 3: both of them, as they had a good relationship, that

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Speaker 3: it wasn't. I think it was portrayed as an arranged

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Speaker 3: marriage sort of after the fact. I don't think it

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Speaker 3: was ever that way. Like if Marcus Freeman could have

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Speaker 3: gone back and hired any offensive coordinator a year ago,

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Speaker 3: I think he would have hired Tommy Reese, so that

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Speaker 3: sort of retention made perfect sense. I think from a

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Speaker 3: professional development standpoint, it made a lot of sense for

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Speaker 3: Reese where he had more autonomy to a point when

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Speaker 3: it came to filling out the staff, I think Reese

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Speaker 3: probably expected to be able to pick and choose who

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Speaker 3: he had in different spots, and Freeman's sort of put

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Speaker 3: his foot down on Jared Parker as the tight ends coach, right,

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Speaker 3: So that was a point of like, all right, we're

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Speaker 3: not co head coaches here. I'm not the head coach

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Speaker 3: of offense. I'm the offensive coordinator. Marcus Freeman is the

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Speaker 3: head coach. What he says goes. So that took a

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Speaker 3: little bit of an adjustment because I think Reese thought

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Speaker 3: when the job came open that he would be like

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Speaker 3: not maybe a serious, serious candidate, but like more than

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Speaker 3: a token, like hey, we'll talk to you and just

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Speaker 3: see what your thoughts are on this. And I think

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Speaker 3: it got to a point like Reese is a big

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Speaker 3: professional development guy, and when he flirted a little bit

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Speaker 3: with Mario Cristobal at Miami a year ago that you

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Speaker 3: know that job went to Josh Gattis. It was purely

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Speaker 3: for professional development standpoints, very well, compensated by Notre Dame,

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Speaker 3: But how do.

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Speaker 1: You push your career further forward?

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Speaker 3: I think working for a first year head coach, you

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Speaker 3: can make an argument that, like the professional development angle,

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Speaker 3: there is like not a selling point. However, having the

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Speaker 3: atonomy just sort of run the offense you see hit

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Speaker 3: without Brian Kelly sort of looking over your shoulder, that

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Speaker 3: was a positive to stay. I mean the ultimately get

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Speaker 3: to a point where like which head coach in college

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Speaker 3: football is sort of runs the best finishing school for

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Speaker 3: a coach? I mean, it's Nick Saban a hundred times

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Speaker 3: out of one hundred, Right, maybe you could say it's

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Speaker 3: Kirby Smart just because he is Nick Saban, just the

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Speaker 3: younger version. So I think that ultimately the opportunity for

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Speaker 3: Reese just kind of leave the Notre Dame nest and

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Speaker 3: just sort of like, all right, you don't get the

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Speaker 3: benefit of the doubt and Tuscaloosa like you did around

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Speaker 3: South Bend a lot of times. That that ultimately sort

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Speaker 3: of got him to a point where it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I need to do something else. But more importantly, if

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Speaker 3: I do something else, it needs to be with somebody

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Speaker 3: like Nick Saban or Kirby smart, like, those are the

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Speaker 3: places I need to go because that, you know, opens

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Speaker 3: the door, like do you want to go to the NFL?

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Speaker 3: Nick Saban's a great person to learn from. Do you

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Speaker 3: want to be a college head coach? Same deal? So

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Speaker 3: that's I think ultimate. I don't think there was any

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Speaker 3: like I'm getting away from Marcus Freeman. I think they

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Speaker 3: have a good relationship. They're like working together, but for

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Speaker 3: it's always about professional development first and foremost, and Nick

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Speaker 3: Saban offers that at the highest hized level.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think anybody can fault Reese for taking

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Speaker 2: that job. As he said, it's a clear step up.

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Speaker 2: It puts him on a rocket ship for a big

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Speaker 2: job probably within the next five years, and he's still

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Speaker 2: a really young coach. I like what he did at

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Speaker 2: Notre Dame. I think he was very good at maximizing

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Speaker 2: several of the parts of that offense, but I don't

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Speaker 2: know if he ever fully optimized the whole thing. You know,

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Speaker 2: like nobody's going to look at Notre Dame's offense over

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Speaker 2: the last couple of years and say, wow, that was

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Speaker 2: a machine, right that didn't happen? And you know, if

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Speaker 2: you read the Internet. There are reasons for that, per

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Speaker 2: the Internet. They range from Notre Dame not having enough

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Speaker 2: talent to Tommy Reese's overrated. Where are you on that spectrum?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean they didn't have enough talent at receiver.

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Speaker 3: There were times where they didn't have enough talent at quarterback,

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Speaker 3: but ultimately that's the fault of the offensive coordinator, who

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Speaker 3: is Tommy Reese. So those are like, it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a circular argument about like what was the problem. It's

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Speaker 3: it's players, not plays. I thought Reese is like a

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Speaker 3: play caller, like is it does it at a very

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Speaker 3: high level like Saban would seem to agree with that,

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Speaker 3: So I'm I feel good about.

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Speaker 1: My opinion there.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the reason Notre Dame had Jack Cone

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Speaker 3: and Drew Pine and inexperienced Tyler Buckner at quarterback was

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Speaker 3: came down to Reese. You know, they didn't take a

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Speaker 3: grad transfer in the in the market a year ago

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Speaker 3: when they should have. You know, Buckner wasn't ready to

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Speaker 3: go in a way that he needed to be last year.

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Speaker 3: You know, they they took half a season to figure

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Speaker 3: out that Jack Cone needed to get the ball out

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Speaker 3: of his hands in two seconds or less. Not six

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Speaker 3: seconds or more. So I think Reese certainly has faults.

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Speaker 3: I've written about them a bunch, but I think there's

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Speaker 3: a there is a section in Our Name fan base

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Speaker 3: that that Reese can do no right. Yeah, maybe because

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Speaker 3: he was the guy that was keeping Everett Golsan on

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Speaker 3: the bench ten years ago and they just haven't gotten

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Speaker 3: over it. So he's a very polarizing figure out Notre Dame.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree with you, Like his offenses were not

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Speaker 3: killers at times. The run game was and the way

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Speaker 3: they used the tight ends I thought was creative and

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Speaker 3: sort of like fit what Notre Name wants to be,

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Speaker 3: like very blue collar and smash mount type stuff. But

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Speaker 3: I do think when Notre Name fans watch games in

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Speaker 3: other leagues and they're like, holy crap, they like start

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Speaker 3: at thirty five points and Notre Dame is like scratching

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Speaker 3: and clawing to get there, there's got to be a

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Speaker 3: different level out there. Like there's you can run pro

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Speaker 3: style offense, and I understand the development aspect, but like

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Speaker 3: these college style offenses, if that's such a thing, Like

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Speaker 3: Tennessee runs a college style offense pretty damn effective. So

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame maybe moving in that direction would be would

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Speaker 3: be a little bit healthy.

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Speaker 2: We had a really interesting debate about this point with

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Speaker 2: Tommy Reese. Is this a good for Alabama on Arthur

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Speaker 2: Ball or discord? And you know, as I said, there

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Speaker 2: was a full spectrum of responses that came out. I

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Speaker 2: think he deserves credit for helping build the running game

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Speaker 2: this past season, knowing that every opponent knew it was

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Speaker 2: coming because of Drew Pine. They knew it was coming.

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Speaker 2: They knew it was either going to Michael Mayer one

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Speaker 2: of the running backs, and building that offensive line in

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Speaker 2: the manner that the staff did, and then crafting a

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Speaker 2: ground game around it in a way that was really effective,

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Speaker 2: notably against Clemson. I think that deserves a lot of praise.

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Speaker 2: But I think you said it. They didn't have a

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Speaker 2: killer offense really at any point in his tenure at

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Speaker 2: Notre Dame. And I'm just curious to see how that

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Speaker 2: translates to Nick Saban Alabama in the SEC.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's gonna have killer talent on the outside there.

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Speaker 3: It already does. Like, no, he won't ever start Drew

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Speaker 3: Pine at Alabama. Now, Zach gonna start Jack Cone at Alabama.

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Speaker 3: They're just going to be at a higher level from

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Speaker 3: the get go. That said, Bill O'Brien has caught all

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Speaker 3: sorts of crap towards the end of last year and

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Speaker 3: they're averaging what like forty two points a game, and

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Speaker 3: there's like Bill Brian, like is it time for him

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Speaker 3: to move on? It's his offense gotten stale, And I'm

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Speaker 3: just like Notre Dame would kill for these this.

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Speaker 2: Perose Heisman Trophy winning quarterback. He's going to get on

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Speaker 2: the top ten of the draft, right.

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Speaker 3: I get it, Like, but that's like to do. Reese

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Speaker 3: will have to produce. It's at such a higher level

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Speaker 3: in Alabama than he ever did at Notre Dame, just

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Speaker 3: as like a bare minimum. And how he handles that

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Speaker 3: pressure and that scrutiny down there, because like he's he

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Speaker 3: definitely is he whether he reads it or he hears it.

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Speaker 3: People around him read it and hear it and it

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Speaker 3: get back to him, and he knows about who's ripping

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Speaker 3: them and what they're saying, and sometimes he'll clap back

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Speaker 3: at you and sort of how he answers questions and

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Speaker 3: press conferences. So that's gonna he's going to have to

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Speaker 3: like mature. I think a coach down there because you

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Speaker 3: can't be in Paul Finebomb country and be worrying about

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Speaker 3: what's being written on al dot com or what's being

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Speaker 3: said about you on the Fine Bomb Show. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame was a much more comfortable ride for him

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Speaker 3: in terms of criticism than anything that Alabama would.

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Speaker 2: Be like on the Notre Dame side of things. By

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Speaker 2: all accounts, including your own, Marcus Freeman felt that this

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Speaker 2: was kind of a make or break moment for him,

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Speaker 2: and it sounds as if the hire was taking extraordinarily seriously.

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Speaker 2: Brought in a bunch of people to help give him

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Speaker 2: input on it. Some big names of course tied to

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Speaker 2: the job, Joe Moorehead, Andy Ludwig, many others. Can you

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Speaker 2: give us that timeline of events that led to Freeman

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Speaker 2: ultimately promoting his guy Jared Parker.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that was a fascinating process because at the beginning

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Speaker 3: you're talking to people in the agent space and around

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame and there's like this, this may be the

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Speaker 3: most important hire that Marcus Freeman makes in his time

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Speaker 3: at Notre Dame because it may determine how much time

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Speaker 3: at Notre Dame actually has and then to see him

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Speaker 3: sort of hunt Colin Klein, who's not experienced, but he

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Speaker 3: really liked his offense, very creative. And Andy Ludwig, who

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Speaker 3: really sort of fit, you know, multiple tight end sets,

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Speaker 3: bloodging you over the head with your offensive line and

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Speaker 3: your run game. Like okay, well that fits with what

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Speaker 3: Notre Dame wants to do. Like I was impressed he

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Speaker 3: took big swings with that. Neither of them hit. The

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Speaker 3: Ludwig situation was very dramatic, I should say, like he dramaki.

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Speaker 3: It's just like, this is not how it should work.

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Speaker 3: Like you just you make your you do your interviews

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Speaker 3: in behind closed doors, and then you announce them like

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Speaker 3: they bring him to a hockey game. Everyone's like, well

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Speaker 3: that's a sign, like this is the white smoke. It's

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Speaker 3: like you go to a hockey game. It's the white

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Speaker 3: smoke from the the Papal Chimney of twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 3: But to see that sort of fall up hard or

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Speaker 3: whether it's a buyout or a what happened?

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Speaker 2: What happened, because there are two schools of thought, right,

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Speaker 2: either he got cold feet or Notre Dame wasn't willing

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Speaker 2: to pay the buyout. I think both sides have kind

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Speaker 2: of denied.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, right, both circumstances. What happened.

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Speaker 3: I've heard about eight different sides of the story. I

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Speaker 3: was told that, like Notre Dame didn't necessarily know the

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Speaker 3: buyout figure when the interview process began. I think that

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Speaker 3: they maybe believed it was like a reasonable buyout opposed

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Speaker 3: to the Ludwig buyout was actually close to three million dollars,

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Speaker 3: which is absolutely insane for an offensive coordinator. I also

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Speaker 3: think that Ludwig just wanted to stay at Utah. He's

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Speaker 3: from Utah. His greatest success have been with Whittingham. They've

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Speaker 3: got a lot coming back. That program's really humming right now.

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Speaker 3: It's got some family situations out there, we're being close

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Speaker 3: to you know, being local is important. So I think

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Speaker 3: it was sort of everything. But yeah, that got really

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Speaker 3: hot and interesting. You don't really hear about offensive coordinator

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Speaker 3: hires going that sort of sideways or publicly sideways like that.

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Speaker 3: So maybe there's a lesson there for Notre Dame and

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Speaker 3: a young head coach about like, okay, this is this

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Speaker 3: is the way to approach that. I know Freeman wanted

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Speaker 3: to sort of give Ludwig a taste of what Notre

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Speaker 3: Dame was about. Which is, you know, at its best.

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Speaker 3: I think Notre Dame feels like the world's biggest high school,

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Speaker 3: where like, you know, sports are supporting each other and

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Speaker 3: like the community is sort of all into Notre Dame.

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Speaker 3: So he want to give him a taste of that.

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Speaker 3: In doing that, I think that set expectations that this

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Speaker 3: deal was done, and then when it wasn't, sort of

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Speaker 3: people got their their ackles up there.

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Speaker 1: So it was, you know, getting to Jared Parker.

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Speaker 3: I think after the concline and let Ludwig, they just

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Speaker 3: needed to make a decision. And I do think that

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Speaker 3: for how good Reese was, he was not a Freeman guy.

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Speaker 3: And there is value and you when you talk to

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Speaker 3: college head coaches, there's value in having a guy you

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Speaker 3: can trust one of the time with everything about how

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00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,720
Speaker 3: you communicate it, how you coach it, that you're going

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Speaker 3: to be there to have their back. And Jared Parker

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Speaker 3: is definitely one of those guys from Marcus Freeman, so

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Speaker 3: I can see the value in that. But that's a

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Speaker 3: big change from this is the maybe the biggest hire

401
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Speaker 3: Marcus Freeman is going to make to Okay, we're going

402
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Speaker 3: to go with somebody in house that we can really

403
00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 3: trust and believe in that it was. It was definitely

404
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Speaker 3: a weird, weird process. Not not how I think it.

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Speaker 3: Marcus Freeman expected it to play out from the get go.

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Speaker 2: Now friendship forged in the fires of West Lafayette, or

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00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,840
Speaker 2: they carpooled to work to get like all these stories

408
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,919
Speaker 2: that I've read about Jared Parker and Marcus Freeman.

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Speaker 3: That could be a fantasy things thing for you next

410
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Speaker 3: year about it. Oh yeah, the carpool. The carpool is

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Speaker 3: going to be a big one.

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Speaker 2: I don't think there's any denying that. Do you feel

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Speaker 2: disappointed that they want Jared Parker?

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Speaker 3: Not really, you know, it's like I'm surprised, but I

415
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Speaker 3: wouldn't say disappointed. It was like I think it was.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely a departure. The result is different than what

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Speaker 3: I thought the process was going to lead to. I

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Speaker 3: thought the process was going to lead to Notre Dame

419
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Speaker 3: hiring an experienced offensive coordinator with a track record of

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Speaker 3: quarterback development, and it didn't.

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Speaker 1: It led to a guy with some.

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Speaker 3: Experience as an offensive coordinator who doesn't coach quarterbacks. But

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Speaker 3: I could see where Freeman's head is at. If you like, okay,

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Speaker 3: you go Parker as offensive coordinator Gino Goodoley, who is

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Speaker 3: another Freeman guy who does have some offensive coordinators experience,

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Speaker 3: Joe Rudolph's offensive line coach or Chris Harry Easton. Freeman

427
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Speaker 3: and Rudolph go back to Ohio State together. So it's like,

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Speaker 3: I understand how the pieces fit together. It's just not

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Speaker 3: the puzzle I thought Freeman was working on when the

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Speaker 3: process started.

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Speaker 2: What does the Parker lash GOODOULI, because I presume he'll

432
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Speaker 2: have some input into it offense look like. Is it

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Speaker 2: a modified version of what we've seen over the last

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Speaker 2: couple of years with Reese? Will it go in a

435
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 2: different direction altogether? What's your sense?

436
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 1: I think that it will be.

437
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 3: It will be similar to how Reese ran it in

438
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,920
Speaker 3: terms of it's It will be a run first approach.

439
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 3: That's where it's going to start for Notre Dame. I

440
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:28,639
Speaker 3: don't think they're ever going to air it out like

441
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 3: you know reference Tennessee. Like's not going to have four

442
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 3: receivers outside the numbers every play, but it needs to

443
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 3: have more of a vertical pass game threat. The quarterback

444
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 3: upgrade should help that. The receivers should be better than

445
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 3: they were last year when there just was not much

446
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,680
Speaker 3: of a connection between I think Pine Buckner and what

447
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,360
Speaker 3: notre name had at receivers, and I don't they were

448
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 3: not overly talented in that position last year either, So

449
00:22:56,280 --> 00:23:01,480
Speaker 3: it has to have more options than a world beating

450
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 3: tight end and elite offensive line. Their offensive line should

451
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 3: still be very good. Their running backs are great, but

452
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,800
Speaker 3: they got to push the ball vertically in a way

453
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 3: they couldn't last year. So that's I think that that's

454
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 3: not like a change in offensive scheme. It's just like

455
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: your players are better at those positions. Like if Reese

456
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 3: was still the offensive coordinator, I think this would have

457
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,719
Speaker 3: been his best offense at Notre Dame by far. And

458
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 3: so I think Jared Parker in a lot of ways

459
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,400
Speaker 3: is set up for success because of the players he'll

460
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 3: be sort of putting into various pieces. But Sam Hartman

461
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 3: is obviously the biggest of that group.

462
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 2: I'm interested on what that puzzle looks like on the

463
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 2: quarterback side of things. You know, I mean you listen

464
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 2: to our show, Pete. You know I've been talking about

465
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 2: the quarterback spot at Notre Dame for as long as

466
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,439
Speaker 2: I've had a show, have been you have been covering

467
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,879
Speaker 2: long Notre Dame longer than just about anybody, so you

468
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: understand the questions around quarterback. As you said, it is

469
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: a prestigious spot. It does not feel like a spot

470
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 2: where they've had a whole lot of transcendent talent over

471
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: the last fifteen to twenty years. They had guys come

472
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: through there, but Sam Hartman now I think represents a

473
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 2: moment of real optimism for where the offense can go.

474
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,920
Speaker 2: We had a question on a Verballer discord from someone

475
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:18,480
Speaker 2: I know, you know, Catherine b who is revered on

476
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: our Verballer discord as well as the Athletic comment section

477
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 2: of course, but her question is specifically around CJ. Carr,

478
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: the big commit that they've got in the class of

479
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. I will broaden it a little bit

480
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 2: and ask what does that pathway look like from your

481
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,359
Speaker 2: standpoint at the quarterback position? Because Sam Hartman's won and done,

482
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 2: and they did take Kenny Minsche their recruit that came

483
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,400
Speaker 2: in as part of the twenty three class, CJ. Carr

484
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 2: coming in with twenty four. Tyler Buckner is still there

485
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:52,680
Speaker 2: at time of recording. How does that quarterback roadmap appear

486
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 2: to you as we record this in early March twenty

487
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 2: twenty three.

488
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 3: I think it's it's muddled, which is fine. I think

489
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,160
Speaker 3: one of the things I want to see Notre Dame

490
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,680
Speaker 3: do that they didn't do last year is be more

491
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 3: aggressive and cutthroat with how they handle that position. I

492
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,359
Speaker 3: think they've had much more of like we have a

493
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 3: good culture in our room, and we're sort of a

494
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 3: developmental program, and like no, no, no, no, find the best

495
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 3: guy and play him.

496
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: And I'm not.

497
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 3: Saying that Ian Book wasn't the best guy because he

498
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 3: won thirty freaking games for Notre Dame. But there have

499
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 3: been times over the last few years where I think

500
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 3: Notre Dame has sort of deferred to having good vibes

501
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: in their quarterback room and not been as cutthroat with

502
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 3: competition as they need to be. I think taking Sam

503
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: Hartman is a cutthroat move because you risk, well, you

504
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 3: lost Drew Pine, you're risk losing Tyler Buckner. But you

505
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 3: know what, that's fine because you're upgrading the position, and

506
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 3: then a year from now you'll have Buckner, Carr Minchi,

507
00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 3: Steve Angeli, if he's still here, somebody's going to win

508
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 3: the job. It doesn't matter if it's car or Buckner

509
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: or Minchi or Angelly, two of them will probably leave,

510
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 3: and I think Notre Dame has to be like, well,

511
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: that's fine, then we'll just go get another transfer. I

512
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 3: think one of the things you see other programs do

513
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 3: is they go out and try to find a dude

514
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 3: every year at quarterback, and I think Notre Dame has

515
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,399
Speaker 3: sort of been like every other which is just like

516
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 3: not good enough. When you're banking on a one, you're

517
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,680
Speaker 3: essentially hoping you have one hundred percent hit rate, because

518
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: when you don't, then you have this huge gap in

519
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 3: your roster of quarterback talent. I think that's not needs

520
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 3: to be more aggressive and recruiting and more willing to

521
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 3: take transfers at that position to cover up cracks if

522
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 3: they exist, and spend less time thinking about like, Okay,

523
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 3: everyone's in a happy camp mood here in this room.

524
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:49,679
Speaker 3: Just like, no, this is the most important position on

525
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,840
Speaker 3: the team. Be cutthroat about who you can get in there,

526
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 3: and be recruiting your butt off at all times to

527
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: make sure you're getting a top two hundred level quarterback

528
00:26:59,119 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 3: every cycle.

529
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,920
Speaker 2: It will be interesting to see how the Hartman experiment goes,

530
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: because if he is able to elevate his draft stock

531
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: in a meaningful way that tends to help other potential

532
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 2: transfers with any discomfort they might have about coming to

533
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: South Bend.

534
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: I agree.

535
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 3: I mean, I think Jack cones experience was good. It's

536
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 3: not like he turned him into an NFL draft pick

537
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 3: AXFL quarterback starting XFL quarterback. You did start a touch

538
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 3: on to ali z Mac if you're that's right, if

539
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 3: you're a deep dive on not name former tight ends.

540
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 3: But he had a good experience here. I think Sam

541
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 3: Hartman has a chance to have a great experience here.

542
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 3: I don't think that you want to just have Notre

543
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,520
Speaker 3: Dame's quarterback room be like the you're starting a grad

544
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 3: transfer every year, but you at least want whoever next

545
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 3: year Sam Hartman is to look at Notre Dame and

546
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, okay, well he had a good experience there,

547
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: and maybe that's a spot I should look at. Maybe

548
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 3: it's next year's Devin Leary or next year's Brennan Armstrong,

549
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 3: who knows like cks are moving all the time. So

550
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: it's important for like branding of the program to be

551
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: like you can come in here and play right away.

552
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 3: This is a big stage. Everyone's going to know who

553
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 3: are you are on a national level. Like I think

554
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 3: Sam Hartman was a good college football story at wake Forest.

555
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 3: He is one of the college football stories at Notre Dame,

556
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: and that's an important thing that Notre Dame can sell

557
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: and distinguished itself from other places.

558
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,880
Speaker 2: You mentioned the NIL structure earlier, Pete, I haven't heard

559
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 2: a whole lot about Notre Dame and what Notre Dame

560
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 2: is doing in the NIL space. What is their position

561
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 2: on NIL, How are they accommodating, how are they competing

562
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 2: with some of what we've heard elsewhere with collectives and

563
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 2: big money deals being thrown around to prospects and transfers alike.

564
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 3: So big money deals to prospects is a big no

565
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:52,960
Speaker 3: right now. Their NIL collective is it's called fund. Brady

566
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 3: Quinn and Tom Mendoza, who now the business school here.

567
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: Sort of head that up.

568
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: It's much more of like sort of charitable works format

569
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 3: where players are compensated for working in the community, whether

570
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 3: it be like Boys and Girls Club or Center for

571
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: the Homeless, things like that. But so there's actually what

572
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,720
Speaker 3: you do work to realize NIL dollars. And then if

573
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 3: you're Michael Mayer or Kyle Hamilton use zoom into six

574
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 3: figures because like for profit businesses want to work with you.

575
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: But in terms of the recruiting aspect of it, Notre

576
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 3: Dame's approach is more like, if you come here and

577
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 3: you're a dude, you'll make money, opposed to you'll make

578
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: money before you come here and prove anything. Not Name

579
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: is not in the game right now to put out

580
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 3: I think NIL contracts or promises to prospects just to

581
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 3: show up so that I don't They may maybe they

582
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,479
Speaker 3: will change with that down the road, but they've been

583
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 3: very reluctant on that. I think Notre Dame is an

584
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 3: institution has said like they're for NIL, and they've been like,

585
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: you know, champion or a proponent of it, and like

586
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 3: in theory, yeah that's true, but where NIL has gone

587
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: is not where it was. I think theoretically people at

588
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 3: institutions thought, I think people in business.

589
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: Knew it was going to go this way all the time.

590
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 3: But No Name's approach has been much more you can

591
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 3: make money here and make a lot of it if

592
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: you're a player, but just to come here, we're not

593
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 3: going to compensate you just to show up. So it's

594
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: a kind of a different approach to maybe some other places.

595
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: So in like two years, Pete, when they have to

596
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:33,640
Speaker 2: change that policy, Yeah, how would you envision them changing

597
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: that in a way that is true to Notre Dame.

598
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 3: That's a tough one because that's I think that there's

599
00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: a way to work sort of their NIL approach into

600
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 3: recruiting where you can talk to these the top prospects

601
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 3: and say, hey, come here, here's what you'll do.

602
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 1: Here's how you can monetize that.

603
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 3: Right now, their approach is much more with fund at

604
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: least as like every player is compensated in the same way.

605
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: It's sort of at the same figure. So whether you're

606
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: the fourth team middle linebacker, the starting quarterback, that's sort

607
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: of a team wide NIL activity. I don't I don't

608
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 3: know how that sustains itself two three years down the

609
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,960
Speaker 3: road when you're sort of looking at the value Sam

610
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 3: Hartman brings to the program versus the second team long

611
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 3: snapper and like, wait a minute, one guy is the

612
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: reason that we made the college football Playoff. And that's

613
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: that's something I think Note name is going to have

614
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: to adjust to over time. They're and I think that

615
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 3: They're aware of that. They're just trying not to sort

616
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: of overstep into like a football players is university employees world.

617
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,600
Speaker 3: That's that's not Name does not want to go there

618
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 3: at all. I understand why they don't want to go

619
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 3: there there, but there are other schools that are willing to,

620
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 3: so I think notre name. This is like sort of

621
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: constant reevaluation of like what are you comfortable with in

622
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 3: the NIL space. I do believe that Narnae is getting

623
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 3: more and more comfortable with NIL.

624
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 1: But this ain't A and M or Oregon or Miami.

625
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 3: That's what's happening up here, and I don't think that's

626
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 3: ever what's going to happen up here.

627
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: Pete.

628
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 2: We're recording this around let's say, ten am Tuesday morning,

629
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 2: and I saw a tweet come across from our friends

630
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 2: over at Reddit CFB that the University of Colorado has

631
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: scheduled a special executive session for Wednesday to discuss quote

632
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: a legal advice on a specific matter end quote an

633
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: athletics update on.

634
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: The PAC twelve.

635
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 2: You are a college football fan first and foremost. You

636
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 2: understand the climate right now with respect to the PAC

637
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 2: twelve and media rights and how things could suddenly go

638
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: boom at a moment's notice. I am not going to

639
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 2: say that conference realignment, another round of it is definitely

640
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 2: going to happen. I don't know what's going to happen

641
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 2: in college football. It feels like you need to fully

642
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,480
Speaker 2: qualify every statement because things change so quickly. But there

643
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: is a world in which the Pac twelve the cintegrates.

644
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: There is a world in which Oregon and Washington end

645
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 2: up in the Big Ten. There is a world in which,

646
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: in very short order, we start talking about Notre Dame.

647
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: Where does what does Notre Dame do? How does Notre

648
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 2: Dame fit in?

649
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 1: Start talking about Notre Dame well, right, but.

650
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: Continue talking about Notre Dame in maybe a more realistic

651
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: way than we have in these hypothetical states that we've

652
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 2: been in over the last decade or so. What does

653
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: that ongoing conversation look like from the Notre Dame standpoint?

654
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: Is it?

655
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: Is it something that they have warm to, either because

656
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 2: the situation around them has changed, or because the money

657
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 2: has changed, Like, what have you heard on that side?

658
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 3: The money has changed big time. You hear people at

659
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: Notre Dame talk a lot more about the financial implications

660
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 3: of conference, full joining of the Big Ten or the

661
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 3: SEC like, what that would look like, what that would

662
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: feel like for the sort of the ability to compete

663
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: with Michigan, Ohio, State, l Maama, Georgia financially. That's much

664
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 3: more of I think a front burner topic that's ever

665
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 3: been for Notre Dame. I my personal opinion is that

666
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 3: if Oregon and Washington joined the Big Ten, Notre Dame

667
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: makes sense at that point. It makes and I mean

668
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 3: not name always makes sense for the Big Ten. I'm

669
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: saying Notre Dame. It would be a logical decision to

670
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 3: then join for Notre Dame because you're not joining a

671
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 3: regional conference anymore. Like in the early nineties when this

672
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,359
Speaker 3: happened the last time in the Big Ten, thought maybe

673
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 3: Notre Dame was about to go. You know that the

674
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 3: East Coast was what State College, and the West Coast

675
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 3: was Iowa City. I mean, now it's it's the legit

676
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,400
Speaker 3: West Coast and the legit East Coast. There's not a

677
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 3: there's never been a national conference quite like that. If

678
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: you had Oregon in Washington that mix like, I don't

679
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 3: I don't think Notre Dame would feel sort of pinned

680
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,040
Speaker 3: in the way that it would if it was just

681
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 3: sort of stuck playing Thanksgiving weekend in Iowa City or Minneapolis,

682
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 3: opposed to Los Angeles or Palo Alto. So I think

683
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,799
Speaker 3: there's a world where joining the Big Ten Notre Dame

684
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: what actually celebrated it, opposed to begrudgingly do it. And

685
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 3: if the Big Ten gets a little bit more national,

686
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 3: it's already getting more lucrative, then I could see the

687
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 3: day coming where that just it's too It makes too

688
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: much sense to sort of put off conference affiliation just

689
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 3: because independence isn't important. And I understand that it is

690
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,839
Speaker 3: critical to the institution. But that version of the Big

691
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 3: Ten I think would be very very attractive to Notre

692
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 3: Dame and the like if you spend it forward the

693
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 3: Florida State Clemson discussions where you hear their athletic directors

694
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 3: talk about like this, we can't sustain this. I mean,

695
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 3: what happens when when they depart there? What does the

696
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 3: acc look like? Is that still a home for you

697
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 3: if you're Notre Dame for all your other sports? I'm

698
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 3: not so sure that it is. So it's it's definitely

699
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: worth monitoring. But like many things at Notreame, they don't

700
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 3: need to be the team that jumps first. They can

701
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 3: wait until like, Okay, this is the perfect situation. Now

702
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,840
Speaker 3: we're going to make a move. I think Oregon, Washington,

703
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: I don't know if you could convince the Big Ten

704
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 3: to take Stanford as well, but if you did that,

705
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 3: then I think Notreame would look at that and be like, Okay,

706
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 3: these are schools we like to associate with competitively, academically,

707
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 3: it's a good.

708
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: Fit geographically, yeah.

709
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: I mean, look, if another shoe were to drop and

710
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 2: the PAC twelve goes by bye, if Oregon and Washington

711
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: go into the Big Ten in short order, which seems

712
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 2: like it's very much on the table at that point,

713
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: the writings of the wall. At that point, it seems

714
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: inevitable that another round of more massive tectonic conference re

715
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 2: alignment's going to go down. And Notre Dame if you're

716
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: Jack Swarbrick, if you're the university president, right, this is

717
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: a conversation among presidents, not so much ads. You have

718
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 2: to start sussing out, all right, what is what is

719
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 2: our place in all this? And you know that's that's

720
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 2: got to be a conversation that goes on a regular

721
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,239
Speaker 2: basis especially in today's day and.

722
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 3: Age, and I think it's worth keeping in mind. Like

723
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,479
Speaker 3: I really everyone gets overheated about like what's next?

724
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: One is gonna happen? Like Notre Dame.

725
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 3: Can they can be last? They can move last in

726
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: this They don't. They're not running away from anything.

727
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: They're not. It's not like UCLA.

728
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 3: Where it's like, oh my gosh, how are we going

729
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,440
Speaker 3: to meet our debt obligations? We have to join the

730
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: Big ten almost as like a cost savings measure. Like

731
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 3: Notre Dame can take its time, it can sort of evaluate, okay,

732
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 3: where does what does the Big ten meteorites world look?

733
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: Like? How big is that conference?

734
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,239
Speaker 3: What happened to the ACC And then it can make

735
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:46,240
Speaker 3: a decision because it's like once you join a conference,

736
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 3: I don't you can't unring that bell.

737
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: If you're Notre Dame. So make sure it's.

738
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,560
Speaker 3: Exactly how you want it to be, because the Big

739
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 3: Ten is never going to be like you know what,

740
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 3: we're full. You know, we just took Oregon and Washington

741
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 3: and Notre Dame. There's just not any room for you.

742
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 3: Like that's note name is such a guaranteed money maker

743
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: for them that they they're open for business all the

744
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 3: time for Notre Dame. So not Name can sort of

745
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 3: pickt spots if that spot if it makes sense for

746
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 3: them to do it.

747
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 2: Pete Sampson of the Athletic, I got one final question

748
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 2: for you, then we'll let you run. And you're a

749
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: busy guy these days. What are you watching for in

750
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,400
Speaker 2: spring camp? What are like your top three things that

751
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 2: you're watching for? Is Notre Dame starts for spring practice?

752
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,080
Speaker 3: Well, Sam Hartman for sure. I mean that's number one

753
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:35,399
Speaker 3: outside of Sam Hartman. You got to make sure he's there,

754
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: so that's important. I think that Note Name's defensive line

755
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,959
Speaker 3: is going to potentially take a pretty big step back

756
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 3: this year. So how do they mitigate that they took

757
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 3: a grad transfer from Ohio State Javonte Jean Baptiste, which

758
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 3: is a great name. Can he be sort of the

759
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:02,399
Speaker 3: Isaiah Foski light? They need help front? And I'm not

760
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: sure that their recruiting class is going to be sort

761
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 3: of an instant impact group. But how that position shakes

762
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 3: out would be top of my list, after Sam Hartman

763
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: and then.

764
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 1: The receiver group.

765
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:18,080
Speaker 3: They had three mid year enrollees, Tobias Merriweathers a sophomore

766
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 3: or will be a softwore in the fall that they

767
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 3: had big expectations for. Had one catch last year, it

768
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 3: was a touchdown. They think he's got like big time

769
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,880
Speaker 3: number one receiver type ability. So that's high on my list,

770
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: and I think after that, I would say that probably

771
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 3: the offensive line as well. I mean that Joe Alton

772
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:40,360
Speaker 3: Blake Fisher are their two tackles. They're both NFL guys.

773
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 3: But the inside of the line's going to have to

774
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 3: be rebuilt a little bit. Zeekrel's back at center. No

775
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,680
Speaker 3: Harry Heastan, No Chris Watt, who is a very popular

776
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 3: sort of assistant offensive line coach here. He departed for

777
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: the Colts. So how that gets rebuilt? Those sort of

778
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:01,000
Speaker 3: the two trenches and the quarterback, the receiver, like note

779
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 3: name should be good on both lines all the time.

780
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: They should then they definitely will on the offensive line.

781
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: But can the defensively get caught up and then you know,

782
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 3: can we see a flash? Can we just get a

783
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 3: Kevin Austin again at wide receiver? Somebody You're like, you

784
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 3: throw the ball up and you good things are going

785
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: to happen. Because they just didn't really have much of

786
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,919
Speaker 3: that last year outside of Michael Mayer. So those that's

787
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 3: where I'm most curious to see Notre Dame on how

788
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,440
Speaker 3: they look during springball.

789
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 2: Pete, where could people find you? Just just as an

790
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: important reminder, yes, many places.

791
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: The Athletic dot com would be the biggest, but then

792
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 3: also my friend and colleague math Fortuna and I we

793
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,439
Speaker 3: host our own Notre Dame podcast called The Shamrock. It's

794
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 3: currently on a bit of a high as as Fortuna

795
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 3: is on paternity leave. And then also on Twitter if

796
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 3: you want to if you're still into that thing at

797
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: Pete Sampson underscore so many places, but the Athletic and

798
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: the Shamrock, those print end podcasts, that would be the

799
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 3: two best spots.

800
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 2: Very good, Pete, thank you so much for your time.

801
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,719
Speaker 2: As always, we will absolutely have to connect at some

802
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 2: point here in the near future to provide an update

803
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 2: as the year rolls on.

804
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 1: A lot to talk about. Definitely thanks DIY.

805
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: All right, there you go, Pete Sampson of The Athletic,

806
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: of The Shamrock podcast, go and check out all Pete

807
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: has to offer a great source for all things noted Dame.

808
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 2: He will be back on this show at some point

809
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: in the next couple months, if only because I'm a

810
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 2: Notre Dame fan, I'm selfish and.

811
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: It's my show.

812
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 2: I can do that. Dan, I'll be back next week again,

813
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: as I said at the top, spending some much deserved

814
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 2: time away with his family in sunny southern California. In

815
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 2: the meantime, make sure you hit subscribe so you don't

816
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: miss any of our episodes. Also going out to verballers

817
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: dot com. That is our Patreon. You can be a

818
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 2: certified you can be a Premium for Baller get access

819
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:52,959
Speaker 2: to bonus episodes our discord server. I am doing our

820
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,719
Speaker 2: weekly bruin a this week with my mom. Mama h

821
00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 2: is always a very very popular character on the show,

822
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: not just because she birthed me, but because she's mom Age.

823
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: Everybody loves momage.

824
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 2: So verballers dot com is where you can go for

825
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 2: more info on that. And last, but certainly not least,

826
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,399
Speaker 2: going out to the YouTube channel. We're posting pretty much

827
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 2: every day clipped from the episode, full episodes, the works.

828
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 2: We would encourage you to check that out and leave

829
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 2: us feedback. In the meantime, as always, stay solid