WEBVTT - Abomination w/ Michael Boatman 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.960 Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.760 We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the 0:00:06.840 --> 0:00:08.799 vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. 0:00:09.119 --> 0:00:10.240 These are our stories. 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:27.120 Done done. 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.200 Hi, Hi, Hi, Welcome to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:34.560 I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger. This is a 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:39.479 podcast where we talk SVU, true crime and talk to celebrities. 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.440 So thrilling and up top, we catch up. We catch up. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.479 Yes, we're as always were in the time machine. So 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:49.080 we will be just returning from a glorious whirlwind tour 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.080 of the Northeast. Thank you to everybody who came out. 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:52.680 We loved seeing all of you. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.560 Well, So, a few weeks ago, I was talking about 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.200 two different things that I thought was one thing. Yeah, 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.880 so I was talking about a crime in Japan, and 0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.760 I said that the documentary The Serpent was about it. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.119 The Serpent's about something else. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.399 Oh okay, it's about a man killing tourists. 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:12.760 So shit, So it's something different. 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:15.160 And I don't know why my brain put them together 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:17.080 into one one thing. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:18.039 So I just wanted to. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:20.960 Shit smarter any which way you sliceaid. I'm sure that's 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:25.160 what happened. Yeah, So well, I want to hear from 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.319 you because you went to go see the movie that's 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:35.520 swooping the Nation M Threegan, uh, Megan, And I thought 0:01:35.560 --> 0:01:37.280 it was gonna be I told you this, but I 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.840 thought it was going to be like I thought it 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.520 was a rated R Chucky, like there would be like 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:44.679 a little doll spilling blood everywhere. But I think it 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:47.440 was just more like a campy, fun horror movie because 0:01:47.440 --> 0:01:48.320 it's PG thirteen. 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.480 Yeah, but Chucky also is not scary like it is. 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:53.840 When you're a kid and he fucking murders people with 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:55.760 like blood and knives like it's all raided. 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.800 There's blood and knives, well a machete in this one. 0:01:59.080 --> 0:02:00.520 Oh really, is there a lot of blood? 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.560 There's an okay amount of blood, I mean whatever, whatever 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.240 amount of blood's allowed for a PG thirteen, But it's yeah, bloodless, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:09.120 you know what I mean. 0:02:09.320 --> 0:02:11.800 Right, there's ripped off body parts. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:14.720 I saw and I saw a marketing thing they did 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:18.160 on Instagram where they just had like fifteen girls dressed 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.000 as Megan dancing on the deck of the Empire State 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.480 Building and doing her weird like like googly dance that 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:26.079 she does well. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.840 You know what I learned, Megan is girls. It was 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:34.720 an actress. They filmed that with real girls wearing masks. Yeah, 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.480 there are real dances. So yesterday a few friends were 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:42.239 showing me just like the making of and it's. 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:43.519 They're real girls. 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:48.560 That's why it's like so fucking cool. On top of it, 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:50.920 it's like Nazgi. I just love that they didn't take 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:52.160 themselves too seriously. 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:53.960 It's silly. It's funny. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.400 Everyone is so pretentious, like I feel, you know, they're 0:02:57.400 --> 0:02:58.440 like Babylon. 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.280 We don't care, we don't I don't need Babylon. 0:03:01.639 --> 0:03:03.800 I didn't even know Babylon was a thing until I 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.359 got to the movies and saw posters. But that's supposed 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:08.919 to be the big thing. No one cares. We want 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:09.680 little robots. 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:10.079 That's well. 0:03:10.080 --> 0:03:12.120 I bombed at the box office, but it might do well. 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.320 It gets nominated for stuff. It's three hours long. You 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:17.919 know what I think everyone, I'm just gonna say it 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.800 as everyone is a little bit tired about movies about 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:25.000 the magic of Hollywood, like the Fableman. Yeah, and that's 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.640 always the ones that win. The ones that win are 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.760 always like jerk Off Circle jerk picks about the magic 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.280 of cinema and it's like, okay, we all like movies. Whatever. 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:35.800 I don't know that's the problem. Give them, give them 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.400 three gin the fucking Oscar and then we'll talk. Yeah. 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.960 And I just love Alison Williams finding this like horror, 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.000 no emotion, niche for herself in her life. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:46.680 Like I'm just really proud of her. 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.040 Have I said on your podcast before that I wow 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:50.000 a babysit for her. 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:51.360 Yes, but you could say it again. 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.800 It's huge. Okay, No, I haven't seen her in years, 0:03:54.880 --> 0:03:57.520 but my friends at MTV interviewer on a red carpet 0:03:57.560 --> 0:03:59.600 for like get Out or something, and they were like, oh, 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.000 we work with your old babysitter, Charc like, and she 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.320 goes she was there when it all started because I 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:07.360 used to do I used to do Disney sing along 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.400 songs with her. We used to like sing and like 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.000 dance around to Disney. But then I let them watch 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.640 Run and Stimpy one time and told her not to 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:15.680 tell her mom because her mama told me no Nickelodeon 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.320 and she told, yeah, you can't trust kids, and she's like, 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:22.599 you know, I can't. You know, I'm gonna tell my parents, right, babe, 0:04:22.640 --> 0:04:25.880 like from get out No. 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.880 I loved those Disney singalongs because like the little Mickey 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:29.920 Mouse would bounce. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:33.800 Towards I loved those totally. We would do it in class. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.359 I just like her and her NEPO baby like comment 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:38.560 was perfect. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.680 Like she's what did she say? She just goes, yeah, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:42.400 it's not that big of a deal. You could just 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:45.240 admit it and know that you had a leg up. 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.880 But still, you know, do good work and nothing matters 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:49.800 and eventually people won't care. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.480 Yeah, like the most basic great thing. 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.599 Because Jamie Lee Curtis had a quote like that too, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.240 and then she came out with a wild one like 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:59.440 they like she was like, we deserve the right to exist, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.240 and it's like okay, Like they're just their worlds are 0:05:03.279 --> 0:05:06.440 too small. I just feel like Kate Moss's sister being 0:05:06.480 --> 0:05:09.080 like it had nothing to do with me being Kate 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:09.880 Moss's sister. 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:11.360 It's like, are you out of your mind? 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:13.720 Like I just I don't. 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.680 Brook Smith, our former guest the Woman in the Well 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:18.719 from Silence to the Lambs, one of the best Nappo 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.640 babies able to talk about it, admits it doesn't care, 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.120 like what's so bad? What's so bad? I don't get it. 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:28.200 Your mom's Zuma Thurman. Just say it help getting a 0:05:28.279 --> 0:05:29.560 Quentin Tarantino audition. 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:34.120 Yes, she's like my mom being Uma Thurman had nothing 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.039 to do with me being cast in that movie, and 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:38.240 it's like, what what are you talking about? 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.120 She's a muse. 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:45.080 I don't know, but right, Alison Williams is amazing and 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.680 Brian Jordan Alvarez is in Meghan Me I'm three again. 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.599 I can't even say it like you and Ronnie Chang. 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.880 So that was like fun too to see some familiar faces. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:56.320 I don't know. 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:57.000 I loved it. 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.400 I love I don't know are personally. Does he do 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:01.240 stand up? No? 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.120 I think we might be just internet friends. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:07.039 But yeah, and I think he's like a sketchy character guy, right, Yeah, 0:06:07.160 --> 0:06:08.960 sketchy sketch comedy. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.920 Yeah, he does like front facing really funny characters like 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.720 I following, Like I'm in a Southern waitress on your 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.080 first day of work and it's her like training you, 0:06:19.240 --> 0:06:21.719 but she's like, You're not supposed to do this, but 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:23.080 I always do. 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:25.279 Yeah. 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.680 One of the best undercover bosses is retro fitness. 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.520 Have you ever seen that? No, there's like a. 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:38.560 Woman ah Jack Jacqueline, and she is so disrespectful. She 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.279 legit like tells client like customers at the gym, like 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.560 go fuck yourself, and like the boss like the owners 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.360 trying to and she goes, I don't give a shit. 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:48.240 I just told you what to do, Just do it. 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:50.719 And then she obviously gets fired. In the end, she's 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.520 wearing a diamond cross, just swearing at the TV like 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:57.640 soapiss it's the best go find undercover boss with our 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:02.800 queen Jacqueline retro fitness so good. Yeah, well, also, yeah, 0:07:02.839 --> 0:07:04.479 did you watch Golden Globes at all? 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.680 I checked out the winners. I looked at a couple 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.800 of speeches. I saw Jennifer Coolidge is like hilarious, like 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:14.160 very touching speech to Mike White, and then I just 0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:16.560 this morning saw a red carpet with her where they 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.080 were like, are there any part roles that you want 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.040 to play next? And she goes, I've always wanted to 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:26.360 play a dolphin. It's oh, what are you talking about? 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:27.640 She's so funny. 0:07:27.640 --> 0:07:29.880 And I love when Mike White one he went, well, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.360 you all passed on this, so this makes it even 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.920 better and he was like oh to the actors, he goes, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:39.400 you all passed and don't pretend you didn't. You all 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:43.080 passed and it makes this moment even sweeter. Something like that. 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.000 I only watch it. I just you know, I don't 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.440 have Twitter anymore, but I'll go look at the trending topics. 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:50.840 Sometimes I'm super early. I feel like a word season 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.000 doesn't usually get going into like feb And it's like January, 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:59.480 like ten No Golden Globes. Always January, okay, always January, 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.800 super February. I did also like that Ryan Murphy let MJ. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.760 Rodriguez take a moment as the first transactress to ever 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.000 win last year she won in the non televised and 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.200 so he like let her get up and like, you know, 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:13.920 take a bow and that was really sweet. Yeah, and 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:15.600 so I saw a couple of clips, but I didn't 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:17.480 watch the show, which is weird. I'm a I'm an 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.600 award show person. I think I've just they started to 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:22.880 really bore me these like days. 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.400 Well, I think once you see how the sausage is made, 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.120 it's like not as cool either. Like I grew up 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:32.400 with my family, awards shows were everything my dad. 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.160 I mean, my dad would let us get. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.160 Pizza and we would watch and then we'd get the 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.880 magazines of all the best dress during the week, like right, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.719 we loved it. But now you know, it's like a 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:46.480 pr circuit, Like it's just the Golden Globe started because 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:47.080 the press. 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:50.760 Celebrities were talking to the press. Did you tell me this? 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:52.920 I know you told me this, you told I'm the 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.120 pot or no, no, I don't think so the Golden 0:08:56.160 --> 0:08:58.200 Globes is just like the foreign press and no one 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.880 talked to the press, and they're like, well, no one 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.199 loves awards more than celebrities, so they created this award 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.000 show just to get interview exclusives with celebrities. 0:09:07.080 --> 0:09:09.199 Yeah, it's like all kind of based on stuff. 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:10.959 But what I really want to talk about someone who 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.840 didn't watch the whole thing, just Twitter, Internet, some BuzzFeed 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:20.600 clips Gerrod Carmichael, it's like you haven't seen anything about it. 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:22.320 Just the Shelley thing. 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.760 He I don't get it, Like I don't get why 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:26.280 he did it. 0:09:26.280 --> 0:09:29.440 It wasn't funny and it was basically like I just 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.400 hate people that are like, well, I didn't even try, 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.680 so it doesn't even matter. I just hate cynicism. I 0:09:34.720 --> 0:09:37.079 hate people that don't try. And it's like you can 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.559 make points and be funny, like it was Ricky Gervais's 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.840 scathingness with not a joke insight. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.040 But the mention of Shelley miscaviage. Did that bother you? 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.120 Because I thought that was kind of like, oh, damn, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:50.560 at least somebody's talking about it. 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:52.160 Oh, it didn't bother me. It was just towards them. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.720 And it was right before like Tom Cruise people came. 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.800 I'm just saying, people were like talking, like people. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:58.440 Weren't listening to him. 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.480 He had to spend most of the time going, why 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.480 do I have to keep telling you guys to shut up? 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.840 Shut up, stop talking because people stopped listening to him 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:06.400 because he. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.560 Was just not caring at all, like playing it like 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:10.520 anti comedy. 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.959 Well it was anti comedy, and he wanted to make 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.120 points of like this is racist as fuck. 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.800 I hate this, I hate all of this. Hollywood is bullshit. 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:19.400 I don't give a shit about any of you, like 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:22.959 very and so people were just talking and the Shelley 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:27.160 bar everyone just went like, oh, I know, I loved that, 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:32.040 but it just I don't get him. I don't get it. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:33.839 I never have gotten it. I don't get it. 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:37.640 Yeah, yeah, when I meet him, he's nice, but like, oh, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.160 he's so lovely to me. The first time I met him, 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:42.800 He's like, when you come to LA, I'll help you 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:45.120 get on shows. And then he did, he like emailed 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:47.160 people for me to get on shows, like he's always 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.280 been so nice. But yeah, I haven't talked to him 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:51.719 in a while, and I don't I haven't seen a 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.880 lot of the new stuff, like the specials and the whatever. 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:59.800 I just feel like, I like, obviously awards are stupid, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.800 but they mean a lot to people, Like a lot 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:06.200 of people work decades, like Mike Whites and Tears, like 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.080 things mean a lot to people, like it takes a 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.520 lot of work to be able to be there, and like. 0:11:12.559 --> 0:11:15.080 And nobody wants you to be too cool at anything, 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.640 like that's it. Yeah, don't be at a don't be 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.480 like speaking at an insurance conference and be like I'm 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.560 too cool to be here, Like then, don't be speaking 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.319 like I mean, don't be too cool. And then I 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.120 went on Twitter for anyone to be like he would 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.320 you guys, you know, and all the people that did 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.120 like him were like, the jokes are supposed to. 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.000 Be not funny. You just don't get it. 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.720 And it's like, I actually do get it and anti 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.880 I don't like anti comedy people. Andy Kaufman. I've never 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:44.560 seen a piece of it. I don't give a shit, 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:48.280 Like it's not for me, but I don't know. I'm 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:50.480 gonna watch the full. I'm gonna watch more and more 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:52.080 just to like make sure. 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:54.360 Yeah, you're making me want to watch it now. Yeah, 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:54.880 I want to. 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:55.360 Check it out. 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:59.280 We should watch it together because I want to see 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.800 if I still think what I'm thinking while seeing all 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.880 of it. But it was just like that's why I 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.200 hated the Kathy Hilton putting lipgloss on. I don't like 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:10.360 anyone taking away from people like doing things that really 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:11.960 do matter, and I don't. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:15.520 I think it's cool to care and that's that. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.320 But he got paid half a million, and I can't 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.320 believe they let him do it, Like I really, did 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:21.120 he have writers? 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:23.760 I wonder, like I'm sure did they know what he 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.240 was doing? Like maybe not? Because I heard that he 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:29.400 likes to rewrite a lot of things, Like I think 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.319 he likes to have his own hand on the steering wheel, 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.959 you know what I mean? Like I don't he maybe 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:37.120 had writers, but I think he had final say on 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.679 everything that he said. For judging from what I've known 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:41.079 about what I've heard about him. 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.360 I just feel like you can be a badass and 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:45.760 say all the fuck's up shit and still be funny, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.640 like the I just don't get why you want to 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.720 not be funny. But he also was first comedy special 0:12:51.800 --> 0:12:53.840 he had. He brought notes up and doesn't care. 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.320 He doesn't care, and it's just like so rewarded in 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.400 every way, and I don't I don't know. 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:01.800 It's just something I don't understand at all. 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:04.360 Well, it's kind of like I have a friend in 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.520 comedy who, like, he books a million commercials. He books 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.679 so many commercials, and he goes into the attitude at 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:13.480 every commercial like I don't give a fuck if I 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:15.640 get this, and he gets it all the time. It's 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:18.440 like it is rewarded in this business. Like they'll be 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.640 like will you shave? And he'll be like nope, and 0:13:20.679 --> 0:13:22.920 he'll get it, you know what I mean. Like they'll 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:25.200 they'll just be like, you know, other people are going 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:28.120 into commercial auditions being like, hey, babe, how are your kids? 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:29.600 Oh my god, it's so great to see you. Okay, 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:31.120 do you want me to overhear? Like, and he just 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:33.880 goes in and is like, when is this fucking over? 0:13:33.920 --> 0:13:35.920 Are we done yet? Like and gets it books it 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:40.320 every time, So it's wild, you know it is wild. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:41.040 I don't know. 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.760 I'm curious how everyone felt about it or if he 0:13:43.800 --> 0:13:45.840 had fun at the parties, Like I wonder. 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:49.800 If he had fun. It's just like I it's just 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:51.880 confusing to me. 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:54.480 But if he really pulled one on them, I guess 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.640 that's a cool prank getting paid a lot. And then 0:13:56.679 --> 0:13:59.640 the Golden Globes switeted like that was amazing, thank you 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.920 for your incredible work. And then all the comments are like, what, 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.920 like are you talking about? 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:09.959 I love how you're just signing into like member sign in. Yeah, 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:13.560 you're just like logging on too, no sign in Twitter, 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:15.600 just checking out the free public Twitter feed. 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.040 Yeah, I just do it for like White Lotus. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:18.520 I did it. 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:20.640 I loved seeing the White Lotus. 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.200 It's the only place where people are having conversations about 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:27.360 stuff still. Unfortunately, because I didn't even know the Golden 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:28.960 Globes were happening, I was on the phone with our 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:32.520 friend and I saw something. I go, wait the Golden 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:35.840 Globes today. It was I saw like people that we 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.400 both follow, like Meg's Stalter. So I saw her on 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.880 the red carpet and was like, oh, that's today, Like 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:41.920 I truly didn't know. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.080 Well, I thought it was because of Twitter, but I 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:45.800 guess not. I thought it was because I don't have Twitter. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:47.760 I'm out of the loop. But you're you have it 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.240 and you're out of the Oh. No, I was totally out. 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:51.240 Was totally out. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.360 Well, you know, I go on my own Twitter for 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.120 like a little bit sometimes in the morning, and then 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:56.760 I go on the that's messed up Twitter, which is 0:14:56.800 --> 0:15:00.720 all just like releasey fanfic and like rammed shit. You know. 0:15:02.600 --> 0:15:04.840 No, I also didn't know it's on a Monday, like 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.280 that felt weird or Tuesday whenever. What I thought it 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.360 was a Sunday thing. I thought, yeah, Sunday I usually is. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.880 You're right, I was obbious about that. 0:15:14.200 --> 0:15:14.640 I don't know. 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.720 Well, I have an episode of my podcast that you 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:18.920 know I've been telling you about NonStop called The Town, 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.200 which is like an industry podcast about Hollywood, which I 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:25.280 think non industry and industry people both listen to. But 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.280 there is an episode waiting on my phone that's like, 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.040 why are we losing award shows? Like why are people 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.240 just so totally dropping award shows. So I'm interested to 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:34.920 listen to what. 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.600 He Oh, I'll do theories, and then once you listen, 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.200 you can like te tell me the truth. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.480 Well, I think the Internet ruined everything. 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:46.360 Yeah, because you could just see the best speeches, you 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.520 could see who won. You don't have to watch. There's 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.080 no surprise, there's no excitement. Also, people aren't going to 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.640 the movies. We also are all watching such different things exactly. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.760 Everything's very yeah except White Lotus. 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.800 I think that really after the Nation, but and I 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.360 love that Jeremy Allen White one. 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:07.760 I didn't watch The Bear yet, but I do like him. 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:11.200 Yeah, and I really loved everything everywhere all at once. 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:13.760 So I'm happy Michelle Yo is getting like all the 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:15.840 props that she's getting for that movie. I feel like 0:16:15.880 --> 0:16:18.160 she's gonna win the Oscar too. Well the Guy one 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.040 too Oh yeah he did too. 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:20.320 Yeah. 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.400 Yeah, and I guess see I I googled him. I 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.240 guess he was like he acted in the eighties as 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:27.760 a kid. 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:32.480 Yeah, he's from Goonies or no, it's another big eighties. 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:37.800 It's Goonies, Goonies and Harrison Ford Indiana Jones. 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.360 Yeah, and then he like dropped off forever, and he's 0:16:40.400 --> 0:16:42.640 so have you seen it not yet? 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.280 Because I see it in the movies and it's on 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:50.440 Delta flights, but usually Delta's for fun, Like, I don't know. 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.480 When I'm in the air, I don't want to watch 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:54.320 this incredible film, you. 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:55.880 Know what I mean? And you and it's not the 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:57.640 kind of movie where you want to like doze off 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.480 for a few minutes and then pick it back up, 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.440 like yeah, you got to really focus on it. 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.320 So I have a flight where I'm in first class 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.440 lay down and it's in the afternoon. I'm flying from 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.399 like one to nine pm, Like it's chill, So maybe 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.440 that's where I'll finally watch it with like my meal. 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:15.879 Oh yeah, that'll be chill. That will be nice to 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.639 like cozy up and watch a movie. I am number 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.679 five on the list for an upgrade tomorrow and there 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:24.600 are nine seats for tonight and I'm excited. Okay, I 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.320 don't know if it's going to happen, but I was 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.760 like looking this morning, it was like ooh la la, okay, 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:33.119 let's get started with our episode today. We don't really 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:34.800 have a ton of tour dates coming up because we 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:37.680 just wrapped our big fall winter tour. But we will 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:43.920 be in Vancouver at the JFL Vancouver uh Festival, which 0:17:43.920 --> 0:17:46.200 is awesome. We'll be there on February twentieth, so get 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.679 tickets for that. Those are available at That's messed up 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:51.879 live dot com. And I believe we'll be announcing a 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:53.080 few more dates soon. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:59.760 And watch the Instagram. Yeah, I'll do like a YouTube thing. Subscribe, No, 0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.159 subscribe to any subscribe and yeah, oh but give us 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.600 some give us some nice reviews and some stars if 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:11.760 it feels good. The Taylor Swift camp fans really made it, 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.000 did a debt. They made a and it bothers me. 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:19.840 But you know what, somebody told me. Somebody told me that, like, 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.040 it's just the number of reviews that you get, Like, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:23.960 even if they're bad, it's still that they told you 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.119 a number of reviews. No, I feel like it was 0:18:26.200 --> 0:18:28.200 Hannah or somebody. So they were like, yes, your bad 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:29.120 reviews are good. 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:29.520 Yeah. 0:18:29.560 --> 0:18:31.240 So it's like, fuck you all the people that give 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:35.680 us one star reviews, jokes on you. All Right, let's 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:45.280 get started. So we are doing Abomination season five, episode eight, 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:48.040 taking it back to two thousand and three, and we 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:51.520 open on a lady in a crossing guard vest and 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.679 she's corralling a bunch of children across the street and 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:56.600 she's like talking to them in kid talk. She's like, 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.480 let's stop, look and listen when we cross the street. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:00.800 Whatever. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.520 But then as the kids go under. 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.080 Her breast as much of a trope as like jogging 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.040 through the park. I feel like there's been a crossing 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.200 guard with young children in like ten episodes. 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:11.280 Yeah, that is a thing. 0:19:11.480 --> 0:19:13.440 It's always like we're gonna be safe, and then it's 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:15.679 like a dead body or a van snatches a child, 0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.680 like this does happen. Yeah, maybe we could be crossing guards. 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:22.440 Maybe that's where we're going off, begging for casting. Maybe 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.040 we would make great crossing guards that are kind of fighting. 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.560 Wow, this is my corner, you know, this is the 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.639 street I walk the kids on. And then you're like, 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.360 I've been here for ten years. Okay, yeah that could 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:36.720 be us. But this lady's like all nice with the kids, 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.480 and then under her breath goes, I hope a cab 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.280 doesn't splatter you all over midtown, you little brats. And 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:45.200 it's so funny to me. She hates her job and 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.359 she sees something and I can't tell. She like works 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.200 for the school and as a crossing guard, just wearing 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.359 a crossing guard vest. But anyway, she sees something and 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.520 suddenly we see her eyes widen, her whole face changes, 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:59.040 and she yells to her coworker get the kids inside. 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.240 We pan around what she's seeing and it's like an 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.840 arm poking out from under a blanket, and it's very 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:07.200 likely attached to a dead ass body. And finally there's 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.720 a little bit of excitement in this bitter crossing guard's day, 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.560 so I'm happy for her. And then Benson and Stabler 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.440 are on the scene with a UNI breaking it down, 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:19.920 and the guy's like white male twenties naked, wrapped in 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.000 queen size sheets, the condoms in there with him and 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:25.320 fluids on the body, so of course they called the 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.040 sex police. His neck is broken, his scalp is torn up, 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:31.320 and there's like a white powder in it, and there's 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:33.919 blue stuff on the sheets, like a melted plastic, like 0:20:33.960 --> 0:20:38.960 melted nylon, and a building super found a pillowcase in 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.360 the bushes that matches the sheets. I don't know really 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.480 where that ends up, but inside are the guy's clothes, 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:47.440 no wallet, so a piece of paper is the only 0:20:47.480 --> 0:20:49.480 thing on him with anything identifying on it, and it 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.440 says seventh and Bleaker, Thursday, seven pm. The uniform guy 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:55.680 is like, well, she must have shown him a real 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:58.679 good time before she killed him, and Stabler's like, dude, 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.159 number one lesson at SPU school, an erection is a 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.440 side effect of asphyxiation. And the cop goes, oh, because 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.680 I was gonna say he was scared stiff, and Stabler 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:09.320 wins is at the middle school joke, and then we 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.280 dive into the credits, so I guess this dead body 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:15.440 had a boner anyway. So top of act one, Stabler's 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.879 complaining about how many doors they'll have to potentially knock 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.719 on because you know, the corner of seventh and Bleaker 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.600 is poppin', and Finn comments also, if the guy was 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:25.959 killed there in the village, that's one hundred blocks from 0:21:25.960 --> 0:21:27.600 where the body was found, it's a long way to 0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.080 lug a body. One of them must live near the 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.119 dump site or she had help moving the body. And 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:34.399 I love this like heteronormative narrative, Like they find a 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:36.040 naked man with a condom on and they're like, a 0:21:36.080 --> 0:21:37.880 woman killed him. A woman killed him in the middle 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.000 of sex, like could not have been a man. Being 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:42.160 gay does not exist in twenty two thousand and three 0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.880 or anything, so there's no hit on the prints from 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.360 the sky. And then enter our csu Queen Judy Ciper, 0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.800 and she goes, this was challenging, and you know it 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:53.479 must have been a challenge if it was challenging for her, 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.479 because she's figured out a lot of shit before. And 0:21:55.520 --> 0:21:59.479 she goes, I found gypsu particles in his hair and 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.800 flakes flat late Tis paint in eggshell white, so it 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:04.800 looks like his head was bashed against a wall. That's 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:08.239 what the white stuff was. And the bed sheets are 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.880 more interesting. She says, they put that blue substance under 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:15.240 infrared spectrometer. It's nylon, like what sports apparel is made 0:22:15.240 --> 0:22:17.919 out of, and it was melted onto the sheets and 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:21.040 they're like, maybe from a faulty dryer, and Finn's like, oh, well, 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.600 I've fucked up a lot of laundry and have eggshell 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.800 white walls, so maybe this is my building. And they're 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:27.680 like and June's is like, yeah, but I don't think 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:31.159 you killed this guy. And they found two blood types 0:22:31.200 --> 0:22:33.800 in the seamen that were in the sheets, so your 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:36.200 victim spent his last night with another man a scan 0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:39.359 I wrote Scandal. It's two thousand and three. So Kragan's like, 0:22:39.440 --> 0:22:42.760 go out and check the gay bars, and they're at 0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:45.240 Now they're at a gay bar and like probably near 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.880 seventh than Bleaker, and Hugo is there. Oh no, I'm sorry, 0:22:47.960 --> 0:22:50.679 it's called Hugos. I love to call this guy Hugo. 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.879 He's just like a haughty unloading beers. He said he 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:56.120 worked till four am, but after ten he doesn't really 0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:57.760 remember much. One of the perks of working at a 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:59.360 gay bars that you never have to buy your own drinks. 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.960 That's what he says. So he calls over the bouncer 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:04.359 and the bouncer's got like a thick New York accident. 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:06.479 He's like, never seen him here, but I know that face, 0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:09.119 and he's like he's a model or something like the 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:12.520 posters that they plaster a construction sites. So now, Benson, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:14.760 it's stable or just go out to a nearby construction 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.520 site and start ripping posters off the wall trying to 0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:20.880 find this guy. And they do find a poster, of course, 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.000 because it's television that says it's him and a woman 0:23:24.119 --> 0:23:26.640 standing together and underneath it says we chose the path 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.520 to love. There's a cross. This is very gaudy and 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:33.040 then not gaudy, like over the top God at like 0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:37.080 a lot of God, and live goes looking pretty heterosexual. 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.439 And it's a advertisement for a place called ReGenesis. So 0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.200 now we cut to Huang George Wang with the lowdown 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.879 and he's like ReGenesis is a Christian ministry service advocating 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:50.720 freedom from homosexuality through prayer and counseling. It started in 0:23:50.720 --> 0:23:53.760 the eighties as the so called ex gay movement, and 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:55.879 it was started by two x gays called Derek and 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.600 Kelly Singer. And they don't condemn homosexuality outright, like they're 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:01.840 not into gay bashing. They just think it's a sin 0:24:01.840 --> 0:24:04.239 and that everyone has to resist the sin. I just 0:24:04.400 --> 0:24:06.280 I mean, I mean, this is a question that tail 0:24:06.320 --> 0:24:09.280 as old as time. It's not anything original, but like, 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:11.440 why won't these people mind their business? 0:24:11.760 --> 0:24:13.400 Why can't they mind their business? 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.360 Yeah? I just don't get it. Well, I definitely think 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:19.800 when people are gay bashing, I think what these people 0:24:19.840 --> 0:24:22.040 think they're doing is helping people get over like a 0:24:22.080 --> 0:24:24.720 gambling addiction. Like it's the same thing as gambling or 0:24:24.800 --> 0:24:27.360 drinking too much, like listen, you just have to avoid 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:29.679 like this. That's that's what I get the idea that 0:24:29.720 --> 0:24:34.360 ReGenesis is trying to do. So bd Wong says it's controversial, 0:24:34.960 --> 0:24:38.359 and fucking Stabler is like, okay, so if someone thinks 0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:41.880 being gay is a sin, not saying I do, what's 0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.600 wrong with wanting to change? And bd Wog's like, it's 0:24:44.640 --> 0:24:47.480 the assumption that you can change, like they claim they've 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.399 converted people back to straight with no proof, and surprise, surprise, 0:24:51.560 --> 0:24:55.600 Doctor's aka science say it's bullshit. So let's find out 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:58.080 who this poster boy for the X gay movement pissed off. 0:24:58.160 --> 0:25:01.960 So now we're at the Regenicis headquarters and the founders, 0:25:02.320 --> 0:25:05.080 Derek and Kelly Singer are sitting there and they tell 0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:07.960 him that this guy's name is James Reid. They saw 0:25:08.040 --> 0:25:10.240 him over six months ago was the last time, and 0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:11.679 they were trying to reach out to him but not 0:25:11.720 --> 0:25:14.080 getting an answer. He thought they were judging him, but 0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:16.720 they weren't, and they're like, you weren't. You didn't think 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:19.520 it was bad he was gay, And Derek is like, 0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:22.280 you think we're religious fanatics and God turned us straight. 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:25.040 It's a struggle. We fight it every day and it's like, 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:26.800 why would you want to live like that? I really 0:25:26.800 --> 0:25:29.720 don't get it. But it was James's idea to be 0:25:29.800 --> 0:25:32.840 on the poster. Initially he wanted people to like to 0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:35.879 know that homosexuality doesn't have to control you. But he 0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:38.880 had doubts and Benson said, yeah, like he had a boyfriend. 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:40.560 That doesn't look good for you guys, and they're like, 0:25:40.600 --> 0:25:43.640 you think we killed James, like and they're like, well, 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:46.000 maybe you felt betrayed. This makes your whole organization kind 0:25:46.000 --> 0:25:48.040 of look like a sham, like your poster boy did 0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:51.760 not get actually successfully converted. And they're like, I wouldn't 0:25:51.800 --> 0:25:53.479 care if he had a hundred boyfriends if it made 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:56.760 him happy. I knew it didn't. And they're like, okay, well, 0:25:57.000 --> 0:26:00.439 what's the address? So at his apartment. We're now at 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:02.960 James Reid's apartment and there's no blood on the bed, 0:26:03.240 --> 0:26:05.520 but there's a syllabus for a clinical psych class at 0:26:05.600 --> 0:26:08.760 Hudson University and it looks like he's going for his masters. 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:10.800 They find picks of him on vacation with a guy 0:26:10.880 --> 0:26:14.040 named Phil and live is talking shit about the gay 0:26:14.080 --> 0:26:17.399 conversion idiots convincing themselves they're happy, and Stabler's like, maybe 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.199 they are, and she's like, okay, so suppressing your sexual 0:26:20.240 --> 0:26:23.479 desires makes a gay person a good Christian? Like that's fucked. 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:26.600 And here's Stabler with his very regressive sexuality as a 0:26:26.680 --> 0:26:28.560 choice argument, and our queen has to put him in 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:31.359 his place. So they find some hate mail, twenty to 0:26:31.400 --> 0:26:34.240 thirty letters that are addressed from Nebraska, and they're like, 0:26:34.320 --> 0:26:36.520 let's go talk to this boyfriend Phil. They find this 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:38.639 old ass flip phone with a number in it for Phil, 0:26:39.320 --> 0:26:41.119 So now we're talking to Phil, who is a doctor, 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:43.480 and Stabler does call him doctor Phil, and it's very 0:26:43.480 --> 0:26:46.320 funny to me. And they're like, you didn't report your 0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:48.840 boyfriend missing and he's like, my ex boyfriend. We broke 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:51.199 up three months ago. He has no family, so I'm 0:26:51.240 --> 0:26:53.399 paying for the funeral. And they're like, why did you 0:26:53.400 --> 0:26:54.960 break up? And he's like, we weren't the loves of 0:26:55.000 --> 0:26:56.480 each other's lives, but I think we got what we 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:58.560 needed from each other. We met at ReGenesis and then 0:26:58.560 --> 0:27:01.080 we realized how dumb it was, and we and doctor 0:27:01.119 --> 0:27:03.640 Phil says, I used to think being straight would be easier, 0:27:03.640 --> 0:27:05.879 but now I just can't imagine being anyone other than 0:27:05.880 --> 0:27:08.440 who I am. And he said that's the one good 0:27:08.440 --> 0:27:11.280 thing about ReGenesis is like I met James and was 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:13.040 able to leave and realize how dumb it was and 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.879 live my truth. And so he says, regenicis people are 0:27:15.920 --> 0:27:18.639 basically good people. They just believe in God's road map. 0:27:19.440 --> 0:27:20.719 So they asked him, do you know who wrote all 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:21.960 this hate mail? And he goes, well, he wrote a 0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.719 bunch of articles bashing ReGenesis, so he made himself a target. 0:27:24.800 --> 0:27:26.639 So really it could be any of the people that 0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:29.600 are homophobic in this world. And he said also that 0:27:29.720 --> 0:27:31.639 James was seeing somebody, but he was deep in the 0:27:31.680 --> 0:27:34.879 closet and that they figure maybe this person will come 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:37.159 out to attend the funeral. So now we're at the 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:40.240 funeral and there's a full protest going on with members 0:27:40.280 --> 0:27:44.240 of the Church of Eternal Providence in Nebraska. They're picketing 0:27:44.240 --> 0:27:47.280 and chanting, they're yelling God hates you and all this horrible, 0:27:47.359 --> 0:27:50.040 vile shit. And one of the protesters is this, like 0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:53.240 truly decrepit man with the yellowest nasty teeth, who I 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.840 am hoping and praying that they didn't just cast this 0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:57.720 man like this, and that they added some yellow to 0:27:57.800 --> 0:28:01.200 his teeth. Because it's a problem. Who knows this guy, 0:28:01.520 --> 0:28:04.359 you know, he knows all of God's exact thoughts and feelings, 0:28:04.400 --> 0:28:06.360 and he wants to let these people know that they 0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:10.280 are you know, abominations and is yelling slurs at them, 0:28:10.640 --> 0:28:13.159 and Phil starts like a fight. Phil arrives at the 0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:14.800 funeral and is like, get out of here, and he's 0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:17.359 doing the like he's pushing with the gross teeth man, 0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:20.639 and in all the shoving, gross teeth man crosses the 0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:24.960 line of what is considered legal protest area where they've 0:28:25.000 --> 0:28:28.280 been permitted. So now he gets arrested. So now top 0:28:28.320 --> 0:28:31.119 of AC two, we're talking to you know, mister bigot, 0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:34.120 mcyellow teeth. Reverend Mitchell Shaw is his name, and he's 0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:36.760 doing the Lord's work blah blah blah. He quotes the 0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.440 Bible about homosexuality is a sin and worthy of death. 0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:41.520 And now we get Stabler coming in at least to 0:28:41.800 --> 0:28:43.920 be put to good use with his Catholic school education, 0:28:44.040 --> 0:28:46.120 and he's like, like, the Bible also tells me I 0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:48.040 can sell my daughters into slavery and I should be 0:28:48.040 --> 0:28:50.000 put to death if I work on Sundays, Buddy, like, 0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:52.120 what are you talking about? And this man was like 0:28:52.440 --> 0:28:54.760 nine to eleven happened because there's so many gay people 0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:57.760 in New York, like it's fucking out of control, and 0:28:57.840 --> 0:29:00.280 Stabler is pissed. He calls him a bigot hiding his 0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:03.360 bullshit behind the lord. And then we have a lot 0:29:03.400 --> 0:29:06.000 of Olivia saying the F word and quoting his letters 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:09.680 to James, and he admits to writing them, but he says, 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:12.000 you can't prosecute me for writing letters, and he wishes 0:29:12.040 --> 0:29:14.160 he had killed read but he was a thousand miles away. 0:29:14.840 --> 0:29:17.400 Now the squad is all making fun of this gross 0:29:17.440 --> 0:29:19.840 old man, but Craigan says, the police back in Nebraska 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:22.479 do confirm it is his alibi, Like he was picketing 0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:25.840 a totally other innocent person's funeral, probably in another state. 0:29:26.400 --> 0:29:29.440 So Novak says, caught him loose, and Benson's like yeah, 0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:32.280 but one of his followers of his congregation, like totally 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:35.240 could have you know, decided to take it a step further. 0:29:35.680 --> 0:29:37.880 And Novak's like, yeah, proven, maybe I can get him 0:29:37.920 --> 0:29:41.080 on the fighting words doctrine. But then, as we so 0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:44.400 often wonder with the show, what about the semen these 0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:47.160 people like, because these people wouldn't have had sex with him, 0:29:47.160 --> 0:29:49.320 they would have just killed him. So like, is what 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:51.280 we still need to find out this mystery boyfriend? Like 0:29:51.320 --> 0:29:55.120 what's going on? And a lot of people left before 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:56.920 they could talk to them because of the fight that 0:29:57.000 --> 0:29:59.040 broke out, so that scared some people off. But so 0:29:59.600 --> 0:30:01.840 Munch found a camera that one of the church members 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.720 must have left behind and he's like, oops, they must 0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:07.959 have left it behind, wink wink, and Novac is like 0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:09.600 I didn't hear that. And he's like I'm just going 0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:11.280 to develop their film for free and then get it 0:30:11.320 --> 0:30:14.160 back to them, and Cragan is like, go show those 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:16.520 pictures around to like all the people you talk to 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:18.080 at the funeral and see if we can like make 0:30:18.080 --> 0:30:21.640 some ideas. So now we're at Hudson University and a 0:30:21.680 --> 0:30:24.360 professor is like, like I told you, I don't really 0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:27.040 know James's friends, I just know his research. He was 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:30.959 working on a long term study on reparative therapy and 0:30:31.160 --> 0:30:34.959 the theory that same sex attraction is arrested development and 0:30:35.000 --> 0:30:37.880 can be cured. And they're like, well, most shrinks think 0:30:37.920 --> 0:30:41.560 that's crap, and he's like, yes, I agree, it's experimental 0:30:41.600 --> 0:30:45.200 and it's unproven at best, and at worst, patients develop anxiety, depression, 0:30:45.240 --> 0:30:50.400 increased risks of suicide having been subjected to repairative therapy. 0:30:50.680 --> 0:30:54.040 And so his research was proving that reparative therapists know 0:30:54.160 --> 0:30:57.520 their treatment doesn't work, but pray on vulnerable patient patients 0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:00.440 like snake oil salesman or like many religious peace. So 0:31:00.520 --> 0:31:03.320 his whole thing was going to debunk all this reparative 0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:07.120 therapists like work that you guys are all bullshit. And 0:31:07.160 --> 0:31:09.120 the only people who have even read his proposal are 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:12.400 three professors, and he goes, actually there was a fourth one, 0:31:12.400 --> 0:31:15.080 but he resigned. His name was Roger Tait, and he's 0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:17.880 a proponent of reparative therapy, and that's why he wanted 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:19.920 to have him on the study for like you know, 0:31:20.560 --> 0:31:24.800 all sides, I guess, and he thought there were methodological 0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:27.880 problems with the study, and that's why he resigned from him. 0:31:28.520 --> 0:31:30.760 So now we're talking to Roger Tait, and it is 0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:34.840 the late great George Siegel or SEAgel, I think, and 0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:38.000 I know him from Look who's talking? Just shoot me. 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:40.920 He was also more recently in the Goldbergs and then 0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.120 he did pass away in twenty twenty one, and I 0:31:44.160 --> 0:31:46.680 love this man. I loved him in movies. I've seen 0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.080 him in forever and he's like an act like was 0:31:49.080 --> 0:31:52.840 a big actor in the seventies and eighties as well. Anyway, 0:31:52.880 --> 0:31:55.760 he says, listen, I disagreed with James, but I liked 0:31:55.840 --> 0:31:58.760 him and I respected him, and we debated in symposiums. 0:31:59.720 --> 0:32:03.120 Rodger believes being gay is a complex pathology and that 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:05.600 if you identify the root of the neurosis, you can 0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:09.160 change the neurotic behavior, and his research shows that an 0:32:09.160 --> 0:32:13.600 overbearing mother combined with a distant father influences psychosexual development, 0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:18.000 Like the gay man wants a relationship with his dad 0:32:18.040 --> 0:32:20.040 and then he seeks it out with other men. And 0:32:20.120 --> 0:32:21.880 I see is like, that must have pissed you off 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:24.120 that James's research was going to torpedo your work. And 0:32:24.360 --> 0:32:26.560 he's like, his methods were shoddy. He was probably never 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:28.440 going to be published, and I felt sorry for him. 0:32:28.760 --> 0:32:30.960 He treats a lot of men who try to fill 0:32:31.000 --> 0:32:34.200 their empty lives with anonymous sex and loveless relationships. And 0:32:34.280 --> 0:32:36.760 James tried to convince himself that he was normal, But 0:32:36.840 --> 0:32:41.000 how could he have been? This is so like such 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:45.920 like an old episode in my mind. Munch is like, oh, 0:32:46.000 --> 0:32:48.760 if an overbearing mother and a distant father are what 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:51.920 make you gay, then color me gay. And they pass 0:32:51.960 --> 0:32:53.720 a guy going into the office, and Munch does a 0:32:53.760 --> 0:32:56.440 little tricky thing and he asks the receptionist excuse me, 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.080 was that Elliott Stabler? And he goes, no, that's Ian, 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:03.080 doctor Tate's. So the woman just offers this information love it, 0:33:03.200 --> 0:33:04.920 like if it was a patient, she wouldn't be able 0:33:04.960 --> 0:33:07.920 to tell you who that was. Anyway, Munch recognizes the 0:33:07.960 --> 0:33:10.440 dude and goes, that guy was at the funeral. So 0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:13.520 we find out that Ian Tate is twenty years old. 0:33:13.840 --> 0:33:16.720 He dropped out of school upstate after one semester and 0:33:16.760 --> 0:33:19.000 now is in community college. The mom is dead. The 0:33:19.040 --> 0:33:22.080 father pays for the apartment, which is surprised half a 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:23.600 block away from the dump site. 0:33:23.760 --> 0:33:27.640 Not even like, oh, this guy is so familiar looking 0:33:27.680 --> 0:33:31.040 to me the sun and I don't know from where 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:33.000 I know him, Like he's in one episode of Six 0:33:33.000 --> 0:33:33.480 Feet Under. 0:33:33.520 --> 0:33:34.360 I'm like, is that it? 0:33:34.520 --> 0:33:36.960 Like I'm looking at all his credits and I'm like, 0:33:37.240 --> 0:33:40.160 none of these are connected to me, But this man's 0:33:40.160 --> 0:33:41.920 face is it just from SVU? 0:33:42.320 --> 0:33:44.760 Like Lisa, when I tell you I wrote the exact 0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:47.800 same thing I wrote. This is Jonathan Tucker. He looks familiar. 0:33:47.840 --> 0:33:49.360 I thought i'd seen him in more, but I think 0:33:49.400 --> 0:33:51.480 I only know him from Hannibal, the TV show. He 0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:54.040 was in Hannibal, which I watched. That must be where 0:33:54.040 --> 0:33:56.040 I recognized him from. He was also in Parenthood. Did 0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.320 you watch that? I did watch Parenthood. I just saw 0:33:58.360 --> 0:33:59.920 that he was in ten episodes. 0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:03.200 So I'm trying to but I don't remember Bob Little 0:34:03.280 --> 0:34:04.320 Christina Bambert former. 0:34:04.480 --> 0:34:07.960 Oh he was running for mayor. Okay, yeah, so we 0:34:08.040 --> 0:34:09.879 both know him from like one show. But I thought 0:34:09.880 --> 0:34:11.400 i'd seen him in like a lot of stuff, but 0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:15.919 I haven't. He's also Injustified and American Gods and yeah, 0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:20.480 that's this guy. He's in Echoes with Daniel Soon Jada. Oh, 0:34:20.560 --> 0:34:22.640 excuse me, we need to watch that now. 0:34:22.880 --> 0:34:24.719 It really came and went like you would think a 0:34:24.760 --> 0:34:28.319 Netflix show would be more in the No, do you 0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:30.480 think it was in other people's You should watch and 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.520 it's trending and it's just not in ours, Like we're 0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:35.000 Daniel Soon Jada fans. 0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:37.799 I know you got to know by my Google search 0:34:37.840 --> 0:34:40.560 that I'm looking up on I'm on Daniel Sujatta's IMDb 0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:45.719 Paige Weekly. But anyway, they find out that yes, the 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:47.800 father pays for a department so close to where the 0:34:47.840 --> 0:34:49.960 body was dumped, and that there were over fifty calls 0:34:49.960 --> 0:34:53.880 between Ian the son, and James Reed the night, including 0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:56.320 the night of the death. So they're like, so, doctor 0:34:56.320 --> 0:34:58.799 Homophobe's son is gay and killed his boyfriend. If he 0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:00.440 was ashamed to be gay, maybe he just had to 0:35:00.480 --> 0:35:03.719 destroy James And so a lot I think it's wrong 0:35:03.800 --> 0:35:05.520 saying this that a lot of gay people suffer from 0:35:05.560 --> 0:35:09.400 internalized homophobia and from a culture that demonizes him. Plus 0:35:09.440 --> 0:35:12.319 a dad who spent years promoting being gay as unacceptable, 0:35:12.640 --> 0:35:14.680 so he would have done anything to keep the illusion 0:35:15.040 --> 0:35:18.399 of being straight. So now they go talk to Ian 0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:22.319 tape and he's like, James Reed, never heard of him, 0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:24.680 And they're like, okay, liar, we have the phone records. 0:35:24.719 --> 0:35:26.840 And he's like, yeah, James was harassing me because of 0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:29.000 my dad, and he calls him the F word as well, 0:35:29.160 --> 0:35:32.560 and Stabler says most homophobes are repressed homosexuals, which is 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:35.319 a myth and that's not true, but you know, that's 0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:37.239 what Stabler is throwing out at him to try to 0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:37.959 get him to roll. 0:35:38.160 --> 0:35:39.919 I know it's like a myth, but I do feel 0:35:39.920 --> 0:35:42.440 it's sometimes true. But why is it offensive? Like, I 0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:46.040 know people are offended by that kind of thinking, but 0:35:46.120 --> 0:35:49.680 in my head of like, you know, doth protest too much? 0:35:50.880 --> 0:35:52.919 Yes, the lady doth protests too much? 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.640 Yeah, it's like my whole thing is, if like you're 0:35:55.719 --> 0:35:58.960 living or truth in your best life, why like you 0:35:59.000 --> 0:36:02.600 would understand why, like if you were in like and 0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:04.840 a loving thing, you would want that for everybody. So 0:36:04.920 --> 0:36:07.440 I just assume people that are so hateful of others 0:36:07.560 --> 0:36:09.880 are jealous because they don't get to live their true life. 0:36:10.880 --> 0:36:13.040 But obviously some people are just hateful fucks. I was 0:36:13.040 --> 0:36:16.080 just wondering why it's offensive. Yeah, I know, I'm reading. 0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:18.520 I was reading an article about it really quickly, but 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:21.200 then I just got stuck on something else, so I 0:36:21.480 --> 0:36:23.040 don't I don't think I finished it because I wanted 0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:24.239 to know too, I would. I wanted to know if 0:36:24.239 --> 0:36:25.919 that was true. So I looked it up and it's 0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.319 and I found out that it was a myth. But 0:36:28.400 --> 0:36:34.040 every Republican Bossian that is against gays is always found 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:38.799 tapping on a bathroom stall, yeag sex workers. They're always caught, 0:36:38.840 --> 0:36:41.000 They're always caught with stuff on their hard drive. Like 0:36:41.520 --> 0:36:47.320 it is wild that every Christian leader and Republican government 0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:51.280 official that hates gay people. It's like it it seems 0:36:51.280 --> 0:36:53.400 like they're always found out to be doing gay stuff. 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.759 So I don't know, because it's like is it worth yeah, 0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:58.520 like because to me, there's almost something a little bit 0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:01.200 worse about not only being a big but being a hypocrite. 0:37:01.239 --> 0:37:03.480 Like you can like if you're a bigot, that's not 0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:05.640 trying to stop but you're also a bigot that's like 0:37:05.680 --> 0:37:07.960 trying to actively stop people from living this life that 0:37:08.000 --> 0:37:10.200 you kind of wish you could live. That's why I'm 0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:12.839 always like grossed out by these Republican like you know, 0:37:13.680 --> 0:37:16.240 politicians that are toe tapping in the bathroom. But anyway, 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:17.160 that's a great question. 0:37:17.080 --> 0:37:20.160 Because it makes it seem like everyone in the closet 0:37:20.440 --> 0:37:23.320 is hateful in a killer and that's not Yeah, like 0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.920 I'm sure there's times people in a closet that you 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:30.680 know aren't hateful. Yeah, it's it's complicated, But to think 0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:32.239 it's a full myth, I think is. 0:37:32.239 --> 0:37:36.120 Like also not true. It happens well I think it's 0:37:36.160 --> 0:37:38.839 to say that most of them are repressed. I mean, 0:37:38.840 --> 0:37:42.640 it was is the myth. There obviously exists homophobes who 0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:43.799 are who are homosexual. 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:47.640 Obviously no one's seen American Beauty. 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:49.960 That's one of my favorite movies. 0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:52.680 I know Kevin Spacey has turned out to be kind 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:56.799 of a criminal, but that movie really does it for me. 0:37:57.280 --> 0:37:59.440 That really that movie was a big one for me 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:04.319 back in the day. But anyway, Live is like, be 0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:06.239 honest with us, and he's like, I'm not gay and 0:38:06.280 --> 0:38:08.680 I didn't kill him. And Stabler is like helping some 0:38:08.800 --> 0:38:10.640 old lady out of the building and Lives like, okay, 0:38:10.640 --> 0:38:12.280 they why don't you just give us a DNA sample 0:38:12.320 --> 0:38:14.719 And he's like nope and walks away and they don't 0:38:14.719 --> 0:38:16.960 have cause to compel a swab, and it's like, fuck 0:38:17.000 --> 0:38:19.279 this old lady. Stabler was really grabbing the door so 0:38:19.320 --> 0:38:20.840 that he could go in and do some snooping and 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.920 check a dryer that melts clothes or whatever. So now 0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:25.960 we're in the laundry room and they're just like feeling 0:38:26.040 --> 0:38:30.200 laundry machines and Stabler finds one that's hot, hot, hot, 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:32.640 and he finds a piece of melted nylon in the 0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:35.439 lint trap and says this should get us a warrant 0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:39.080 for Ian's apartment. And it's like, how how could like 0:38:39.320 --> 0:38:43.040 literally a piece of a nylon in a communal dryer 0:38:43.320 --> 0:38:47.560 get you a warrant to someone's apartment. I'm obviously as 0:38:47.719 --> 0:38:50.160 as always willing to go along to get along for 0:38:50.200 --> 0:38:52.840 the sake of television, but that is not a smoking 0:38:52.840 --> 0:38:54.680 gun to get a warrant. And it's kind of nuts 0:38:54.680 --> 0:38:57.920 to me. At Ian's apartment, the place has been cleaned 0:38:58.520 --> 0:39:01.880 and recently painted, and Live finds a bit of uneven 0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:04.600 wall that looks like it's been recently patched, and Sabler goes, 0:39:04.800 --> 0:39:07.839 got a saw and and and then he goes bring it. 0:39:08.000 --> 0:39:10.359 Like the way he says it is so funny because 0:39:10.360 --> 0:39:12.799 Stable just goes bring it. Got a saw? 0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:14.120 Yeah, bring it? 0:39:14.400 --> 0:39:16.040 And I want everyone to go back and watch it 0:39:16.120 --> 0:39:18.759 on Hulu, like right now, it's made me laugh so much. 0:39:19.040 --> 0:39:21.640 I listened to it six times. And so now this 0:39:21.719 --> 0:39:24.600 man is sawing open the wall. Ian comes home with 0:39:24.680 --> 0:39:27.160 his dad Roger in tow and they're demanding a warrant. 0:39:27.200 --> 0:39:29.080 They slap it in his face and he's like, I'm 0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:32.080 calling a lawyer. And Stabler goes, yeah, like, let's see 0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:34.560 what we see in here, and they open up this 0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.160 patch of wall and on the beams behind the wall 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:41.239 there's just straight up blood and hair sitting right there 0:39:41.280 --> 0:39:43.760 on the wall on the beams, and it's like, Wow, 0:39:43.800 --> 0:39:45.400 you got a crew to come in here for a 0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:47.640 deep clean and a spackle, but no one thought like, hey, 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:49.719 let's wipe off this blood that's like visible to the 0:39:50.000 --> 0:39:53.880 to the untrained eye, like it's wild. And then Stabler 0:39:54.000 --> 0:39:56.719 goes all that plastering for nothing, and they arrest Ian 0:39:56.800 --> 0:39:58.800 and the dad goes, I'm getting you a lawyer. Don't 0:39:58.840 --> 0:40:00.480 say a word something. A lot of s of you 0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.920 suspects do need to be told. Top of act three, 0:40:04.280 --> 0:40:08.080 And we get this court clerk who is announcing the 0:40:08.200 --> 0:40:11.120 case and he's got a Southern accent and is very 0:40:11.440 --> 0:40:13.640 noticeable to me. And he's the one in the courtroom 0:40:13.680 --> 0:40:16.359 in the episode design who goes, how I patrol just 0:40:16.360 --> 0:40:18.279 found mistrust? Remember that guy? 0:40:18.920 --> 0:40:21.719 How can I forget? Yeah, how can I find get? 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:25.760 A full phone phone conversation in the courtroom. 0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:27.479 But also a kind of a brag. 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:31.719 At our Sacramento show, we met a sonographer, yes, and 0:40:32.000 --> 0:40:36.000 she told us that stenographers are hot and cool, and 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:38.360 she doesn't like being portrayed as an old idiot with 0:40:38.400 --> 0:40:39.319 old technology. 0:40:39.880 --> 0:40:42.480 Yeah, they don't use the like doop doup thing anymore, 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:44.279 where like your hands just move along. I think they 0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:45.000 use different shit. 0:40:45.080 --> 0:40:47.840 There's a shorthand and you get to create your own shorthand. 0:40:47.880 --> 0:40:52.120 We learned, and she was hot, and she brought her daughter, 0:40:52.239 --> 0:40:54.320 so shout out it's our stenographer friend. 0:40:55.040 --> 0:40:59.640 Yes, stenographer from Sacramento. Anyway, this man was funny to me. 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:02.200 And he's been in five episodes of SVU and three 0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:04.600 episodes of Regular Law and Order, always just as like 0:41:04.600 --> 0:41:06.239 a court clerk, and I love the idea that the 0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:08.040 show's just like bouncing back and forth, like we just 0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:09.680 need a guy to like read out a court number. 0:41:10.080 --> 0:41:12.600 So he's like doc at seven three four case of 0:41:12.640 --> 0:41:15.600 Ian Tate or whatever. And then holy shit. His lawyer 0:41:15.680 --> 0:41:20.560 is Daphne Zuniga. She's from Spaceballs and Melrose Place. Obviously 0:41:20.640 --> 0:41:22.760 a huge part of my childhood. I watched this woman. 0:41:22.840 --> 0:41:25.480 I've watched hours of this woman. As I throw my 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.719 brow and I'm like, who who she's princess. She's the 0:41:28.760 --> 0:41:33.480 princess in Spaceballs. She's like a huge part and just 0:41:33.719 --> 0:41:36.200 was one of the stars of Melrose Place, like she 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:40.560 and Grant show had this like hot romance. And I 0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:42.879 guess she was also more recently a regular on One 0:41:42.880 --> 0:41:45.120 Tree Hill, which might hit for some of our listeners 0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:48.480 as well. So here she's playing Emma De'schelle and. 0:41:48.680 --> 0:41:50.600 So we don't get Postslater going. 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:56.000 What about One Tree Hill? Yeah, she this is her 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.680 only episode of SVU. She's not like a recurring lawyer 0:41:58.760 --> 0:42:02.279 though I don't know why. She's pretty fun and Ian 0:42:02.360 --> 0:42:05.160 Tate pleads not guilty, and Casey asks for remand since 0:42:05.160 --> 0:42:07.440 he's a violent homophobe and his lawyer claims he was 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:11.440 defending himself after being sexually assaulted by James Reid, and 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:13.920 this is the first time Casey's heard of this assault 0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:17.640 excuse at all, and she's like and Emma's like, well, 0:42:17.640 --> 0:42:20.400 you're an SVU ada and you should know that victims 0:42:20.440 --> 0:42:22.239 delay reporting all the time. And they're like, well, we 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.400 found his semen at the scene. And she goes, but 0:42:24.480 --> 0:42:27.040 if a woman orgasms when she's rape, does that mean 0:42:27.080 --> 0:42:28.920 she really wanted it? And that is a good point 0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:30.680 and I did right. If a woman owes when she's 0:42:30.840 --> 0:42:33.120 ard and I'm just wanted to explain how I take notes, 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:36.440 and the judge is like, I'll hear proof of the 0:42:36.520 --> 0:42:39.120 rape later and remands him, which is shocking for like 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:41.480 a white boy with money to get remand you know 0:42:41.560 --> 0:42:43.960 when he also claims that he was a victim. So 0:42:44.080 --> 0:42:47.080 now Casey is talking to the late Senator Fred Thompson 0:42:47.160 --> 0:42:49.520 the DA about how this assault thing is bullshit and 0:42:49.520 --> 0:42:51.440 it's an attempt at a gay panic defense, which she 0:42:51.480 --> 0:42:54.640 says rarely works. She says in the Matthew Shepherd case, 0:42:54.719 --> 0:42:57.360 the judge didn't even allow the defense to present a 0:42:57.400 --> 0:43:01.520 gay panic defense, but in New York he points out 0:43:02.000 --> 0:43:05.439 gay panic falls under extreme emotional disturbance. But Casey said, 0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:07.920 jury still don't buy it. And I looked it up. 0:43:08.320 --> 0:43:12.719 And in twenty eighteen, two Democratic senators introduced a bill 0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.440 that would ban the gay and trans Panic defense at 0:43:15.480 --> 0:43:17.920 a national level, but it died in committee. In twenty 0:43:18.000 --> 0:43:22.239 nineteen nineteen, it was reintroduced to Congress as the Gay 0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:24.920 and trans Panic Defense Prohibition Act of twenty nineteen. It 0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:27.520 died at the end of twenty twenty. Reintroduced in April 0:43:27.520 --> 0:43:29.239 of twenty twenty one, and it seems to still be 0:43:29.320 --> 0:43:32.040 in committee, but has a very low chance of passing, 0:43:32.040 --> 0:43:34.400 which fucking sucks because I don't think that that should 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:38.440 be a legitimate defense anyway. The DA tells Casey, it's 0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:40.839 just wonder thinking that being gay as a sin for 0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.239 your murder charge to be knocked down to manslaughter, and 0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:45.479 he goes that Texas case did a lot for gay rights, 0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:47.919 but it also incited a backlash, and what he's talking 0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:51.280 about is Lawrence versus Texas, which is in two thousand 0:43:51.280 --> 0:43:53.279 and three, the same year with this episode came out, 0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:57.320 the Supreme Court ruled that sodomy laws, which are basically 0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:02.200 any adult non procreative sexual activity, are unconstitutional. 0:44:03.080 --> 0:44:06.360 And just while that, there's a group of people that 0:44:06.400 --> 0:44:10.480 are like, that's not It's like, mind your fucking business, 0:44:10.840 --> 0:44:12.440 these fucking losers. 0:44:12.719 --> 0:44:17.400 I just yeah and so yeah. So he's like, basically, 0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:20.439 the ADA says, you got to prove this guy is gay, 0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:22.440 so that the gay panic defense goes bye bye. And 0:44:22.480 --> 0:44:24.600 the tricky par is not playing the politics of it. 0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:26.480 They want to make this about straight versus gay. You 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:29.080 need to make it about murder. So now we're at 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:31.239 a diner and the gang is chatting over food and 0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:34.719 it looks I literally fat rewound it six times. It 0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:36.880 looks like Live is eating a pile of tuna on 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:39.879 a bed of lettuce. Stabler had a burger but left 0:44:39.920 --> 0:44:42.640 one half of the bun behind, and then some fries, 0:44:42.800 --> 0:44:44.920 and then Casey had some kind of sandwich, maybe a 0:44:44.960 --> 0:44:46.880 turkey club. And they do have onion rings for the 0:44:46.880 --> 0:44:49.080 table in between all of them, but maybe they were 0:44:49.080 --> 0:44:52.600 bad because they look untouched. Benson is poking at her 0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:55.160 food and is reporting that Ian is a loser with 0:44:55.200 --> 0:44:57.960 no friends and that he only really talked to his dad's. 0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:01.120 He has no subscriptions to gay mag gaines, no receipts 0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:04.520 from gay bars, like nothing that indicates that he was 0:45:04.600 --> 0:45:07.160 gay or I'm sorry, is gay. This is we're talking 0:45:07.160 --> 0:45:10.080 about Ian, and Live says she wouldn't be surprised if 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:12.719 James was his only boyfriend he's ever had. Munch shows 0:45:12.800 --> 0:45:15.520 up with some bad news. There is an assault report 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:18.359 from the night of the murder from Ian Tate at 0:45:18.360 --> 0:45:21.120 the hospital. But why didn't the lawyer present that to 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:23.000 get him bail? That's what I would like to know, 0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.719 Like your honor, we have a hospital report, you know, 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:28.640 I don't know why. Now we're talking to the E 0:45:28.800 --> 0:45:31.440 R nurse who confirms that this guy checked in at 0:45:31.440 --> 0:45:33.960 eleven oh five. He had a I think she's had 0:45:33.960 --> 0:45:37.560 a fourteen cm laceration on his right arm. Fourteen centimeters 0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:40.520 seems like a really big laceration, bruises on his Tourso 0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:43.520 and he said he got mugged. Benson points out that 0:45:43.520 --> 0:45:45.759 the cops weren't called till the morning, and she's like, 0:45:45.840 --> 0:45:47.799 welcome to Thursday night at the Knife and Gun Club. 0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:50.719 We were busy, bitch. And she said she would have 0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:52.600 asked about a sexual assault if she had seen any 0:45:52.640 --> 0:45:55.359 signs of it, but she didn't, and so like, and 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:57.719 there's also she confirmed that there's no way this man 0:45:57.719 --> 0:45:59.840 could have left and come back if you leave you 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:02.759 your spot. So now Benson and Stable are talking about 0:46:02.760 --> 0:46:04.879 the timeline, and they're like, when would he have had 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.359 time to jump the body with this hospital visit where 0:46:07.360 --> 0:46:09.359 he probably had to wait hours and like, you know, 0:46:09.440 --> 0:46:11.400 it was not there at eleven o'clock, but it was 0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:13.400 there at like eight am, So like, when would he 0:46:13.440 --> 0:46:15.480 have time to move the body? And it had to 0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:18.000 have been his father, no one else in his life 0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:19.920 is a dump a body for you kind of friend. 0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:24.160 So we got to play daddy at the scene. So 0:46:24.320 --> 0:46:26.920 now we're talking to a friend of the pod Eternal 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.440 Hatty Daniel sun Jada, who we were just talking about 0:46:29.480 --> 0:46:32.439 aka Bert Trevor, and he's like, yep, you guys were right. 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:35.240 And we're looking at the patch of wall that he removed, 0:46:35.320 --> 0:46:37.839 that they removed from Ian's house, and he shows them 0:46:37.880 --> 0:46:40.760 how the second type of blood. When you push someone's 0:46:40.840 --> 0:46:43.160 head through the wall and your hand goes through, you're 0:46:43.160 --> 0:46:45.399 gonna like scrape your hand at the top when you're 0:46:45.400 --> 0:46:47.680 pulling your hand out. So at the top of the 0:46:47.680 --> 0:46:49.719 hole they find a second type of blood and that 0:46:49.760 --> 0:46:53.200 would be the killer's blood type. It's not Ian Tates type, 0:46:53.280 --> 0:46:56.000 but it is or not blood type. They did the DNA. 0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:59.280 It's not Ian Tates, but it's a close male relative. 0:46:59.560 --> 0:47:03.280 Boom go the dynamite And now we're at Riker's. Novak 0:47:03.400 --> 0:47:06.040 is talking to Ian and his lawyer Daphne Zuniga and 0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:08.239 telling him she's got a sweet deal for him if 0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:10.600 he recance his statement, and he's like, it's the truth. 0:47:10.640 --> 0:47:12.239 I thought he thought he forced himself on me and 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:13.719 I fought back, and they're like, okay, when did you 0:47:13.800 --> 0:47:17.279 jump the body, and he's like, I don't recall, and 0:47:17.400 --> 0:47:20.920 they're like, why does this matter? And Casey Novac is like, 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:23.400 I think your client knows, and he goes, he caught you, 0:47:23.440 --> 0:47:26.320 didn't he and Hean's like shut up, and then they're like, 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:28.799 we found your father's blood. And the lawyer is like, 0:47:28.840 --> 0:47:30.759 then you have to drop the charges, and Casey's like, 0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:32.440 why don't you sit your ass down? Because if your 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:34.759 client doesn't want to go down for accessory, he better 0:47:34.800 --> 0:47:37.560 listen up. So she slowly sits down, and it's very 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:40.799 satisfying to see Casey just whip people into shape. He 0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:42.920 kind of says to Casey, you have no idea, and 0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:45.480 then Casey starts in on this like little monologue about 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:47.759 how James knew how you felt like wanting to change 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.239 yourself but you can't. He was someone who understood you, 0:47:50.280 --> 0:47:52.520 and now he's gone. You went to the hospital not 0:47:52.560 --> 0:47:55.000 because James attacked you, it's because your father attacked you. 0:47:55.320 --> 0:47:57.320 And then Ian spills the tea. He's like, he didn't 0:47:57.320 --> 0:48:00.719 mean to. He was shocked seeing me like that, and like, 0:48:00.840 --> 0:48:02.919 just tell them he wasn't himself. It wasn't his fault. 0:48:03.000 --> 0:48:06.799 So he's like really into making sure his dad doesn't 0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:09.480 get in trouble for killing his boyfriend. And so next 0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:11.919 they're barging into Daddy Tate's office and he's like, what 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:14.040 the hell and they arrest him. Is asked in what 0:48:14.120 --> 0:48:16.120 looks like a bunch of gay men that he's trying 0:48:16.120 --> 0:48:19.120 to reprogram. So now we're at the top of AC four. 0:48:19.480 --> 0:48:21.920 We see Novak pulling up to the courthouse on a 0:48:21.960 --> 0:48:24.279 bike with a helmet and everything. I don't know if 0:48:24.280 --> 0:48:27.480 we've ever seen this again, but I'm here for it. 0:48:28.160 --> 0:48:31.480 And right when she gets there, we meet a defense attorney, 0:48:31.600 --> 0:48:35.040 Dave Seaver, who is in seven episodes of SVU, three 0:48:35.080 --> 0:48:38.640 original recipes, including this current season of the New Lawn 0:48:38.719 --> 0:48:40.120 Order reboot, but. 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:41.200 This is his first episode. 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:43.399 This is his first appearance, and he has defended some 0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:47.439 classic wild people on the show, like the mushroom guy 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:50.759 from Wet, the twin Sessed con artists from Bombshell Like. 0:48:50.840 --> 0:48:52.719 He's been all over the place. He's in family, He's 0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:55.720 the one about the brother I slept with my sister, 0:48:56.320 --> 0:48:59.919 So a lot of good ones. Also interesting thing about 0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:03.839 Dave Sever the Wikipedia. The fandom Wikipedia says that his 0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:08.000 full name is Mary and Dave Sever, But I wonder 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:09.480 what episode it is where we find out that his 0:49:09.520 --> 0:49:12.680 real first name is Marian. Also, it's revealed in an 0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:15.080 episode of Law and Order that he not only is 0:49:15.120 --> 0:49:17.839 a lawyer, but he graduated from Harvard Medical School too. 0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:20.279 I wonder if Neil Baher was trying to like put 0:49:20.320 --> 0:49:22.480 a little bit of himself into this Dave sever character. 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:24.880 Yeah, but I know if your first name is silly, 0:49:24.960 --> 0:49:26.239 you always go with the middle name. 0:49:26.320 --> 0:49:28.720 The people are sure that I know a lot of guys. 0:49:28.760 --> 0:49:32.120 So funny to me, he's a very secondary character on 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:34.200 the show that he has a secret first name. That's 0:49:34.200 --> 0:49:37.160 funny to me. Like it's not like we find out 0:49:37.160 --> 0:49:39.880 that Olivia's first name is really like Priscilla, you know. 0:49:40.200 --> 0:49:45.320 Like I've I always have loved him because he he's funny. 0:49:45.480 --> 0:49:49.600 He's he's like always got a funny line. He's sassy 0:49:49.640 --> 0:49:53.879 and confident and fun Yeah, he's even though he's only 0:49:53.920 --> 0:49:57.359 been only but like in seven episodes, he's really made 0:49:57.400 --> 0:49:59.520 an impact, like I assumed he was in twenty plus 0:49:59.520 --> 0:50:02.759 episode because he is so memorable as that. 0:50:02.880 --> 0:50:03.040 Well. 0:50:03.120 --> 0:50:05.880 This actor's name is Michael Boatman. He's a longtime, very 0:50:05.920 --> 0:50:09.319 successful actor. His resume includes Spin City, Rless and The 0:50:09.320 --> 0:50:11.839 Good Fight. So maybe you've not seen him in twenty 0:50:11.880 --> 0:50:13.799 episodes of s View, but he's been in hundreds of 0:50:13.800 --> 0:50:18.239 episodes of televisions. Absolutely, he's out there, he's rich, he's 0:50:18.280 --> 0:50:22.439 out there. So he immediately teases Casey about the bike 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:25.600 and is like, how environmentally conscious? It's funny, and then 0:50:25.640 --> 0:50:28.719 he introduces himself, but Casey passes on the handshake and 0:50:28.760 --> 0:50:32.120 he's the guy that's defending Roger Tate. Casey immediately roasts 0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:33.600 him and is like, oh, yeah, I remember you from 0:50:33.640 --> 0:50:36.680 state Senate elections. I didn't vote for you, yep, aren't. 0:50:37.320 --> 0:50:40.720 And he's like, no one did. It's okay. My shrink 0:50:40.719 --> 0:50:43.600 says it's made me less self destructive, and I'm like, wow, 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:46.200 how are you self destructive? Man who is a high 0:50:46.280 --> 0:50:49.200 powered lawyer as well as holding a medical degree from Harvard, 0:50:49.480 --> 0:50:51.399 I'd love to hear what you do to like let 0:50:51.440 --> 0:50:55.560 loose And Casey's like, dude, you want the conservative vote, 0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:57.400 that's fine, but this ain't the client to do it with. 0:50:57.480 --> 0:50:59.600 This guy's not about family values. He's just a straight 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:02.040 up kill. And Dave's like he was defending his son 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:04.959 from a rapist and Casey says Ian admitted that sex 0:51:05.040 --> 0:51:07.080 was consensual, so that's actually not going to work, and 0:51:07.120 --> 0:51:11.040 He's like, yes, his client was wrong, but he's still 0:51:11.160 --> 0:51:14.680 justifiable homicide because he thought that he was being attacked. 0:51:14.880 --> 0:51:17.480 So he slaps emotion on Casey and now we're in 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:19.759 the judges chambers and he's pitching his defense to the 0:51:19.840 --> 0:51:22.640 judge that Roger Tate thought James Reid was raping his 0:51:22.680 --> 0:51:25.560 son Ian. He brings up a penal code which says 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:29.080 you can use deadly forced to stop force ablesodomy, and 0:51:29.160 --> 0:51:31.800 Casey's like, well, that's fucking dumb, because no reasonable person 0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:34.920 thinks that two men having sex means rape automatically. And 0:51:35.280 --> 0:51:39.640 his research, this man's research focuses on aggression, deviant behavior, 0:51:39.640 --> 0:51:42.400 and promiscuity in gay men, so he's got the studies 0:51:42.400 --> 0:51:44.239 to back it up. And Novak's like, his studies are 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:47.160 not accepted by the scientific community. They are bullshit. And 0:51:47.160 --> 0:51:49.719 Steever's like, I'm not trying to say that they are 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.640 like legit studies. I'm using them to go towards his 0:51:53.880 --> 0:51:56.440 proof of his state of mind. He didn't know his 0:51:56.520 --> 0:51:59.560 son was gay, so this is basically like a second 0:51:59.600 --> 0:52:03.080 hand panick defense. Like gay panic defense. You know, it's like, 0:52:03.560 --> 0:52:05.799 my son couldn't possibly be gazed with this man's attacking him. 0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:08.120 And Casey's like, this is an attempt to encourage and 0:52:08.120 --> 0:52:12.120 exploit bigotry against homosexual sexuals, and he's going for jury nullification. 0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:14.200 I don't really know what that means, and I'm sure 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:17.000 probably look it up, but we have so many lawyer listeners, 0:52:17.040 --> 0:52:19.439 somebody just tell me what dury nullification is. The judge 0:52:19.480 --> 0:52:21.799 doesn't want to throw out a defense just because the 0:52:21.840 --> 0:52:24.200 jury might believe it. He wants to let the jury decide. 0:52:24.239 --> 0:52:26.560 So now we're in court. Ian is on the stand, 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:28.680 explaining that his dad has a key to his apartment 0:52:28.680 --> 0:52:30.279 and the night of the murder, he was bringing over 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:32.080 dinner and Ian thought that he was out of town. 0:52:32.440 --> 0:52:35.040 He describes how his dad called him in bed, pulled 0:52:35.080 --> 0:52:37.160 James away from him, pushed him into the wall two 0:52:37.280 --> 0:52:40.000 or three times. He heard a crack and James stopped 0:52:40.000 --> 0:52:42.760 fighting and he was dead. So his dad then attacked 0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:44.839 him and kept asking how can you do this? How 0:52:44.880 --> 0:52:47.279 could you do this to me? Now, Dave sever gets 0:52:47.280 --> 0:52:50.120 his turn and quickly calls Ian a lifelong liar for 0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:53.960 being in the closet, like so wild. He's like, have 0:52:54.080 --> 0:52:55.920 you ever seen your dad be violent before? And He's like, 0:52:55.920 --> 0:52:57.480 he's never been violent with me. The only time I've 0:52:57.520 --> 0:52:58.960 ever seen it was when a kid was picking on 0:52:59.000 --> 0:53:01.200 me at school on a fight with the kid's dad 0:53:01.200 --> 0:53:03.440 and broke his nose. And so Dave Sever's like, oh, 0:53:03.440 --> 0:53:05.920 so he's only violent when he's defending you. And then 0:53:05.920 --> 0:53:09.200 he says, why did you confess? And Ian is like 0:53:09.520 --> 0:53:12.040 so self hating. He's like, nobody gets that this all 0:53:12.040 --> 0:53:13.799 happened because of me and because of what I am. 0:53:13.920 --> 0:53:16.160 If I weren't so sick, I could have controlled myself. 0:53:16.520 --> 0:53:18.080 It was my fault, and I didn't want my dad 0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:20.759 going to jail for my mistake. Very fucked up. And 0:53:21.360 --> 0:53:24.120 you know, I hope he won't. We see what happens. 0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:27.239 So in the next scene, Dave Sever is interviewing one 0:53:27.239 --> 0:53:29.759 of Roger Tate's colleagues who has a wild accent. This 0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:32.320 is called Connecticut lockjaw. It's like, I'm from Connecticut and 0:53:32.400 --> 0:53:34.080 this is like she talks in a way where her 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:36.920 mouth never opens when she speaks, and she's like, we 0:53:37.000 --> 0:53:40.480 did a study with Tate on ten thousand homosexual men 0:53:40.920 --> 0:53:43.880 and found like, it's a horrible her voice. I like, 0:53:43.960 --> 0:53:46.719 this actress is funny to me. It's so funny this 0:53:47.080 --> 0:53:49.000 way of talking. But I knew women like this in 0:53:49.040 --> 0:53:51.160 Connecticut where I grew up, Like older women with like 0:53:52.800 --> 0:53:53.680 and voices like. 0:53:53.640 --> 0:53:56.200 This, if it stops the wrinkles from forming, you know, 0:53:56.320 --> 0:53:58.080 like Beckham, smile. 0:53:58.320 --> 0:54:03.400 Keep your face completely, bi. No. One time this woman. 0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:06.120 I worked at this store in my town, very fancy shop, 0:54:06.160 --> 0:54:07.960 and the woman who owned it was like this very 0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:12.640 older woman with Connecticut lockjaw, helmet, hair set hair, very like, 0:54:13.920 --> 0:54:18.799 just that vibe. And she one time came in and 0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:20.560 said something to my friend that my friend and I 0:54:20.600 --> 0:54:22.000 say to each other all the time, and she goes, 0:54:22.400 --> 0:54:25.840 little sweetheart, tell your mother I left the pills in 0:54:25.880 --> 0:54:29.440 the garage, and like, that's our favorite thing. I've known 0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:31.520 this girl for twenty plus years. I was sixteen when 0:54:31.520 --> 0:54:35.200 this joke happened, and I've been saying it for more 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:37.560 than thirty years. I'll say that, No, no more than 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:40.279 twenty years. God, I'm I'm not fifty six. Okay, let's 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:47.040 see forty six. Anyway. Their study of ten thousand men 0:54:47.160 --> 0:54:50.120 that are gay found that they solicited sex from miners 0:54:50.280 --> 0:54:53.160 engage in high risk behavior and had violent sexual relations 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:57.040 with more than heterosexual people. And it's like, actually, in 0:54:57.120 --> 0:55:00.439 our research, we found that heterosexuals actually loved have sex 0:55:00.480 --> 0:55:04.920 with minors, so this is definitely not real research. She 0:55:05.040 --> 0:55:08.160 says that gay men have psychological problems. They're more likely 0:55:08.160 --> 0:55:11.040 to be depressed, alienated, enough issues with rage. Now it's 0:55:11.080 --> 0:55:13.359 Novak's turn, and she's like, so, remind me where your 0:55:13.360 --> 0:55:16.640 studies have been published, and she's like they're still being considered, 0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:19.840 and Casey goes, good luck with that, and it's very great, 0:55:20.280 --> 0:55:23.840 and so she's like, why does every other study actually 0:55:23.880 --> 0:55:26.239 say that pedophiles are more likely to be heterosexual And 0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:28.680 she goes, well, that's a bias within the so called 0:55:28.719 --> 0:55:32.120 mainstream psychology, and it's like okay, Tom Cruise. So then 0:55:32.239 --> 0:55:36.120 Casey goes, so, when the APA, the American Psychiatric Association, 0:55:36.560 --> 0:55:39.480 removed homosexuality from its list of mental disorders in nineteen 0:55:39.520 --> 0:55:42.000 seventy three, that was all a big conspiracy, and like, 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:45.840 you know, it's like, this woman's testimony is bullshit. But 0:55:45.880 --> 0:55:49.520 now we've got Roger on the stand and he's like, 0:55:49.560 --> 0:55:52.000 I never suspected my son was gay. I wish I had, 0:55:52.080 --> 0:55:54.040 And they're like, would you have disowned him? And he goes, no, 0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:56.160 I love him. I would have done anything to help him. 0:55:56.160 --> 0:55:58.920 And Casey's like, so you guys are close, but you're 0:55:59.000 --> 0:56:01.319 not that close if you know he was gay, And 0:56:01.400 --> 0:56:03.560 Casey goes, you were also gonna let him take the 0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:06.160 fall for murder. You love Ian, but not as much 0:56:06.200 --> 0:56:08.759 as you love yourself, and he goes, I was protecting 0:56:08.760 --> 0:56:10.759 my son from a man I thought was raping him. 0:56:11.080 --> 0:56:14.160 Casey goes, why dump the body, conceal the evidence, why 0:56:14.239 --> 0:56:16.080 not call the police and tell them what a righteous 0:56:16.120 --> 0:56:18.920 guy you are? And I love that. I'm like, hell hella, Casey, 0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:22.439 Hell yeah yeah. So basically this guy go This guy 0:56:22.600 --> 0:56:25.160 tries to really turn up on Casey and he's like, 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:27.319 how'd you how dare you question my love for my son? 0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:30.640 And Casey's like, oh, because your whole defense is predicated 0:56:30.640 --> 0:56:32.680 on him being a deviant, So how is that love? 0:56:32.800 --> 0:56:35.920 And Casey is a really great lawyer. So at the squad, 0:56:36.000 --> 0:56:38.400 Casey shows up to tell the gang that two jurors 0:56:38.400 --> 0:56:41.480 are believing this asshole, so it might be enough to 0:56:41.480 --> 0:56:44.359 hang the jury. And then Casey's like, all I've done 0:56:44.520 --> 0:56:46.920 if this doesn't If this gets like a mistrial, then 0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:48.839 all I've done is out this poor kid, and like, 0:56:49.000 --> 0:56:51.880 I feel bad about that. And then she goes, Stabler, 0:56:51.920 --> 0:56:53.919 you've got kids, you ever wonder if they're gay? And 0:56:53.960 --> 0:56:56.040 he goes, I haven't asked, and Live goes, you know 0:56:56.080 --> 0:56:57.839 your kids, you would know if one of them was gay. 0:56:58.239 --> 0:57:00.759 And Tate's whole defense is that he never had any 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:03.040 inkling at all, and Casey's like, I just don't buy it, 0:57:03.080 --> 0:57:06.680 but I can't prove it. And so Casey mentions he 0:57:06.719 --> 0:57:08.640 had a girlfriend in high school and Lives like, oh, 0:57:08.719 --> 0:57:11.480 we never found a girlfriend because we were looking for boyfriends. 0:57:12.280 --> 0:57:14.480 So they're like, go find go visit this little girlfriend 0:57:14.520 --> 0:57:16.560 and see if she knew. And I don't know why 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:19.360 that would matter, but here we are. And so now 0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:22.439 we're talking to Sandy and she's like, I haven't talked 0:57:22.440 --> 0:57:24.080 to Ian for years. And they're like, yeah, but you 0:57:24.120 --> 0:57:26.320 guys dated in high school, and she goes, we were 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:28.360 good friends, but I wouldn't say that we dated. He 0:57:28.400 --> 0:57:30.680 was never really interested in the physical part and he 0:57:30.760 --> 0:57:32.520 never came out to me. But I just knew and 0:57:32.560 --> 0:57:34.320 I was happy to be his beard. So like he 0:57:34.320 --> 0:57:35.880 wouldn't get the shit kicked out of him like the 0:57:35.920 --> 0:57:38.680 other guys. And did you ever tell anyone that Ian 0:57:38.760 --> 0:57:39.959 was gay? Like tell his dad? 0:57:40.120 --> 0:57:42.160 This is an interesting I forgot who I was with 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:46.160 talking about it, but like I would love some sort 0:57:46.200 --> 0:57:49.200 of reunion of all the girls that knowingly went with 0:57:49.280 --> 0:57:52.240 their gay best friends to prom and homecoming and all 0:57:52.240 --> 0:57:54.800 the dances. Yeah, I don't know who I was talking 0:57:54.800 --> 0:57:57.040 to her about what, but it does seem like. 0:57:58.720 --> 0:57:59.960 Something special. 0:58:00.560 --> 0:58:03.400 It seems like a special little club to be special bond. 0:58:03.760 --> 0:58:04.440 Yeah. 0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:07.440 So so yeah, they're like, did you ever tell anyone 0:58:07.480 --> 0:58:09.360 like Ian's dad that he was gay? And she's like, 0:58:09.440 --> 0:58:11.560 Ian would have killed me, Like, no, I didn't do that, 0:58:12.000 --> 0:58:14.680 And then from behind them we hear we see Sandy's 0:58:14.680 --> 0:58:17.880 sassy mom leaning on the doorframe going I told him, 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:21.320 and I love her already, And she's like, well, like. 0:58:21.360 --> 0:58:23.920 For a second, you, for a second, you weren't scared 0:58:23.960 --> 0:58:27.240 that she was bad. I told him what like for 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.000 a second when she goes, I told him, you didn't 0:58:29.000 --> 0:58:30.640 even for a second think that maybe she was like 0:58:30.680 --> 0:58:33.280 a bad Christian, like a lunatic too. That was like, 0:58:33.360 --> 0:58:35.960 just so you know your son is gay or right? 0:58:36.040 --> 0:58:39.160 Away. She was God, I didn't get that vibe. I 0:58:39.160 --> 0:58:40.200 thought she was no. 0:58:40.320 --> 0:58:42.600 I was scared for a moment, and then I like relax. 0:58:42.720 --> 0:58:45.040 I was like, Okay, this is one of our friends. Like, 0:58:45.120 --> 0:58:47.000 but I was actually nervous. 0:58:46.720 --> 0:58:48.840 For a second. She like reminds me of one of 0:58:48.840 --> 0:58:51.160 my aunts. Like she's just like funny to me, like 0:58:51.200 --> 0:58:52.800 my aunt Grace. I feel like she reminds me of 0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:54.960 you met her like and she's just like listen. He 0:58:55.040 --> 0:58:56.840 was such a sweet boy. He was like my second child. 0:58:56.880 --> 0:58:58.920 I could see was suffering, and I thought Rogers should know. 0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:01.920 I told him and Roger's senior or I told them that. 0:59:02.000 --> 0:59:04.640 During their senior year, I called him and I said, Roger, 0:59:05.120 --> 0:59:07.880 you should talk to Ian. He's very depressed. I said, Roger, 0:59:07.960 --> 0:59:11.560 your son is gay, and you're making an incredibly difficult situation. Worse, 0:59:11.920 --> 0:59:14.600 you need to be a father. And then she says 0:59:14.640 --> 0:59:17.680 that Roger Tate thanked her and said never contact me again. 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:21.360 So that one overwhel And now we're in a conference 0:59:21.400 --> 0:59:23.720 room at the DA's office and Casey's sitting there with 0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:28.000 Ian as his father and Michael Bowman walk in and 0:59:28.600 --> 0:59:32.440 Novak has a one time offer Murder two twenty to life, 0:59:32.560 --> 0:59:34.160 and she goes, I won't go for the hate crime, 0:59:34.200 --> 0:59:35.840 and he gets to choose the prison that he goes 0:59:35.880 --> 0:59:38.200 to and Seever's like, twenty years, what the fuck are 0:59:38.240 --> 0:59:40.800 you talking about? And then she brings up Sandy's mother 0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:43.840 and Ian goes and like, you see the dad's eyes 0:59:43.880 --> 0:59:46.600 widen and he's like, fuck, like this woman, I didn't 0:59:46.640 --> 0:59:49.080 think she'd come back to haunt me. And Ian goes, 0:59:49.320 --> 0:59:51.960 you knew all this time, all these years, and you 0:59:52.040 --> 0:59:54.800 knew and he's like, it's not like that, and Ian goes, yes, 0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:57.480 it is. Dad. I told myself it was okay if 0:59:57.480 --> 0:59:59.920 he thinks gays are sick and freaks, because if he 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:02.000 he knew about me, and he really knew me, he 1:00:02.040 --> 1:00:04.840 wouldn't say that or think it. And now he realizes 1:00:04.960 --> 1:00:07.920 his dad was purposefully hurting him all these years, and 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:09.919 who would do that to someone they love? Like, who 1:00:09.920 --> 1:00:12.000 would do that to their son? It's like when people 1:00:12.040 --> 1:00:15.240 are like I love you, I just vote against your interests, 1:00:15.320 --> 1:00:17.040 you know, like I love my gay son, I just 1:00:17.160 --> 1:00:19.920 vote completely against their interests. It's like so fucked up. 1:00:20.320 --> 1:00:22.919 So he goes, how can you think that you could 1:00:22.960 --> 1:00:25.120 make me more straight than I've already tried to make 1:00:25.160 --> 1:00:27.840 myself and he's like, all you've done is make me 1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:29.800 wish I were dead, and then he walks out and 1:00:29.960 --> 1:00:32.000 to Roger, it looks like maybe it's sinking in a 1:00:32.000 --> 1:00:36.160 little bit. And now outside, Casey's talking to Ian outside 1:00:36.200 --> 1:00:38.480 the courthouse on a cute little bench and she's like, 1:00:38.520 --> 1:00:41.520 your dad took the plea and he's sitting there like 1:00:41.760 --> 1:00:43.680 every time somebody walks by, I wonder if they know 1:00:43.720 --> 1:00:46.200 that I'm gay, and he says James always talked about 1:00:46.240 --> 1:00:48.360 loving being gay and said that guys are more fun, 1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:51.320 and Casey's like, I gotta agree, because you know, Casey's 1:00:51.320 --> 1:00:54.520 a little horn dog. And he says everything's different now, 1:00:54.560 --> 1:00:57.360 and Casey apologizes for kind of like outing him before 1:00:57.360 --> 1:00:59.280 he was ready for that to happen, and he goes 1:00:59.480 --> 1:01:01.760 and she says, I'm sorry, and he goes, yeah, I'm not. 1:01:02.400 --> 1:01:04.960 And then he walks off, and we hope maybe this 1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:07.240 guy has a good life living in New York as 1:01:07.240 --> 1:01:09.680 an out gay man, and that's dick wolf baby well. 1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:11.920 And hopefully once his dad goes to jail, he can 1:01:11.960 --> 1:01:14.880 take all his dad's money to live in a nice place. 1:01:15.080 --> 1:01:20.760 Fucking yeah, squeeze that asshole for all these worth Yeah. 1:01:20.080 --> 1:01:22.439 And I hope that also that guy going to jail 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:24.920 just kind of like puts all that research just like 1:01:25.320 --> 1:01:26.960 out the window, Like no one's going to publish a 1:01:26.960 --> 1:01:29.080 guy who's in jail for killing his son's boyfriend. 1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:32.720 I mean, people learn that today on Twitter. It's trending. 1:01:33.080 --> 1:01:38.720 You know, Fauci created, uh created coronavirus all over again, 1:01:38.760 --> 1:01:40.480 and people are like, the studies show it. 1:01:40.480 --> 1:01:42.200 It's like you can find a study to do anything 1:01:42.200 --> 1:01:42.520 you want. 1:01:42.720 --> 1:01:45.160 You quit Twitter? Are you still on there? Seeing what's 1:01:45.160 --> 1:01:48.520 going on? I only go on for White Lotus, got it? 1:01:48.560 --> 1:01:50.560 So you don't have to sign up. I just learned. 1:01:50.600 --> 1:01:52.840 So I just like I right after I watch an 1:01:52.840 --> 1:01:55.560 episode of White Lotus, I just google White Lotus Twitter 1:01:55.600 --> 1:01:58.919 trending and then I just go through all the White 1:01:58.960 --> 1:02:01.680 Lotus tweets. I just want to see all the theories. 1:02:01.680 --> 1:02:03.080 I want to see what I missed. I want to 1:02:03.080 --> 1:02:05.480 see insight there are you know. 1:02:05.680 --> 1:02:06.959 I love the memes, I. 1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:08.920 Love the fun you know, I love community. 1:02:09.560 --> 1:02:12.960 Yeah all right, well I'll take you through, you know 1:02:13.880 --> 1:02:15.920 some info after this break? 1:02:16.440 --> 1:02:17.200 Can't wave. 1:02:30.760 --> 1:02:32.080 Welcome back everybody. 1:02:32.280 --> 1:02:36.240 So this is mostly about Fred Phelps in the Westboro 1:02:36.320 --> 1:02:40.360 Baptist Church. But I just wanted to cover who I 1:02:40.400 --> 1:02:44.240 think the seagull guy was based on a little bit. 1:02:44.800 --> 1:02:45.880 Was Charles W. 1:02:46.440 --> 1:02:52.960 Socarides Socrates. Yeah, who cares? We hate this guy? You know, 1:02:53.080 --> 1:02:56.880 I don't know how to pronounce someone that sex, so Charles, 1:02:56.920 --> 1:02:59.640 it's definitely based on this guy. He Charles was a 1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:03.680 psycho biatrist and psychoanalysts who publicly, for a long ass time, 1:03:03.760 --> 1:03:07.520 even after it was considered scientifically like unacceptable to do so, 1:03:08.080 --> 1:03:12.720 that homosexuality was a condition amenable to treatment and conversion therapy. 1:03:13.360 --> 1:03:15.560 He died in two thousand and five after working as 1:03:15.560 --> 1:03:18.160 a clinical professor of psychiatry for many years at the 1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:20.800 Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx till nineteen 1:03:20.840 --> 1:03:23.320 ninety six. My thing is, I looked up this Albert 1:03:23.360 --> 1:03:26.280 Einstein school and it's ranked like fifty six. 1:03:26.320 --> 1:03:29.120 It's very good. My mom's partner went there, So why 1:03:29.360 --> 1:03:32.680 how is this quack a teacher there? That's a great question. 1:03:33.280 --> 1:03:35.640 Because there was like a smart guy from my high 1:03:35.680 --> 1:03:38.520 school who went there too, and I just always thought 1:03:38.520 --> 1:03:43.000 it was good, ranked well in New York City. And 1:03:43.040 --> 1:03:45.320 then it's like they have this guy who truly thinks 1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:47.960 being gay is a disease, Like, it just doesn't make 1:03:48.000 --> 1:03:51.360 sense to me. Yeah, maybe he had ten here is 1:03:51.400 --> 1:03:54.280 that how it works? Like, I just I don't get it. 1:03:54.280 --> 1:03:56.960 Could be who knows. But he believes that being gay 1:03:57.040 --> 1:04:00.800 is a Eurotic adaptation that in men stems from absent 1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:03.800 fathers and overly doting mothers. So that's like one hundred 1:04:03.840 --> 1:04:06.920 percent from the episode. And he wouldn't just admit he 1:04:07.040 --> 1:04:11.200 was wrong, even after the a PA rescinded its definition 1:04:11.240 --> 1:04:13.720 of homosexuality as a form of mental illness in nineteen 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:16.120 seventy three. And he did have a child who is 1:04:16.160 --> 1:04:19.680 openly gay and is now a nationally prominent gay rights advocate. 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:23.720 But he during his life inflicted suffering on the lives 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:27.440 of gay and lesbian people and anyone in the LGBTQ 1:04:27.560 --> 1:04:29.120 plus community in general. 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:32.680 So and I guess this was he wasn't religious. 1:04:33.080 --> 1:04:35.480 I don't think so it's not like, well, the Bible 1:04:35.560 --> 1:04:38.840 says this, But I just like that his first three 1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:41.160 marriages to women ended in divorce, and he had a 1:04:41.200 --> 1:04:46.640 fourth wife, Like, yeah, why is being straight so good? 1:04:46.920 --> 1:04:49.120 Like you can't keep a wife? I don't understand. 1:04:49.680 --> 1:04:54.440 Yeah, no, this guy seems like a piece of shit. Yeah, 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.280 piece of shit. Okay, So we're gonna move on. So 1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:58.760 I just thought I would do a little blurb on 1:04:58.800 --> 1:05:02.200 this guy. I don't if you wanted to know more information, 1:05:02.320 --> 1:05:02.959 go read a book. 1:05:03.000 --> 1:05:05.400 It's not my job. But we're moving on to the 1:05:05.400 --> 1:05:07.760 Westboro Baptist Church. I feel like you guys all know 1:05:07.800 --> 1:05:11.880 about him. So Fred Phelps truly nobody wanted to be 1:05:11.920 --> 1:05:14.520 around this man. Like he died in March of twenty fourteen, 1:05:14.920 --> 1:05:19.000 and all the articles were like he's dead, good riddance, Like, 1:05:19.120 --> 1:05:21.280 as one of the articles wrote, he has very few 1:05:22.280 --> 1:05:23.720 admirable achievements. 1:05:24.000 --> 1:05:25.920 And then one of them was like he was a 1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:29.520 colossal jerk. He's dead, like no one was. 1:05:29.960 --> 1:05:32.360 No one liked this man, as Squire ended an article 1:05:32.400 --> 1:05:34.400 about him after his death that said, only the good 1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:37.720 die young. Fred Phelps was a very old man, so 1:05:38.640 --> 1:05:41.040 very hated individual. 1:05:41.720 --> 1:05:43.560 But he didn't mind. He really didn't mind. 1:05:43.600 --> 1:05:45.680 And he had a quote in My Enemy with the 1:05:45.720 --> 1:05:49.920 Witch's Tall Eagle where he said, if I had nobody 1:05:49.960 --> 1:05:52.640 mad at me, what right would I have to claim 1:05:52.640 --> 1:05:55.560 that I was preaching the gospel? And his whole thing 1:05:55.720 --> 1:05:57.760 was like people were mad at Jesus too, so they 1:05:57.760 --> 1:06:01.600 should be mad at me. Yeah, that's kind of his vibe. 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:04.880 So he everyone hated him, and he kind of thrived 1:06:04.920 --> 1:06:09.720 off being hated. He was born November thirteenth, nineteen twenty nine, 1:06:09.960 --> 1:06:14.360 in Meridian, Mississippi. And even though the Westboro Baptist Church 1:06:14.400 --> 1:06:18.720 has absolutely no ties to Baptist denomination association at all, 1:06:18.760 --> 1:06:22.720 like they've very much separated themselves, most members disavowed him. 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:26.280 He was still ordained as a minister in Southern Baptist 1:06:26.800 --> 1:06:30.040 Convention at age seventeen, So I guess you don't need 1:06:30.120 --> 1:06:33.400 much education to become a Baptist minister since this guy 1:06:33.600 --> 1:06:39.080 became truly ordained at seventeen years old. Since nineteen fifty one, 1:06:39.160 --> 1:06:44.240 Phelps has been arrested repeatedly for assaults, battery, threats, trespassing, 1:06:44.680 --> 1:06:48.600 disorderly conduct, and contempt of court. He has been convicted 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:51.680 four times, so he's served like two thirty day jail 1:06:51.760 --> 1:06:56.240 sentences for disorderly conduct for verbal harassment in nineteen ninety four. 1:06:56.480 --> 1:06:58.480 Do you know about him? Like obviously we all know 1:06:58.520 --> 1:06:59.960 about the church and everything, but. 1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:03.160 Like, yes, you do, No, Actually, like I know about 1:07:03.200 --> 1:07:05.600 him very passively, so I'm interested for you to tell 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:07.800 me more. But I read a really interesting article about 1:07:07.840 --> 1:07:10.720 one of his granddaughters who used to be part of 1:07:10.760 --> 1:07:13.800 his thing and then has fully left, and it was 1:07:13.840 --> 1:07:16.560 just an interesting thing about her disentangling herself from this 1:07:16.600 --> 1:07:18.480 like horrible, bigoted organization. 1:07:19.440 --> 1:07:22.920 Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely touch on that granddaughter, Megan. 1:07:23.720 --> 1:07:27.400 I watched a really cool interview with her, So he 1:07:27.680 --> 1:07:28.680 was I tried. 1:07:28.680 --> 1:07:31.520 There was one documentary, but you had to order a DVD. 1:07:32.560 --> 1:07:33.760 I was streaming. 1:07:33.840 --> 1:07:36.000 I was like, I'm not ordering a DVD, and then 1:07:36.040 --> 1:07:39.360 the other doc was like you had to download BBC Player, 1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:41.560 and I'm like, you know what, I guess I'm back 1:07:41.600 --> 1:07:45.120 to reading. So, like I said, he was a deeply 1:07:45.200 --> 1:07:49.800 disagreeable personality. He liked to pick fights with neighbors. He 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:52.120 had a thirst for notoriety, and he knew how to 1:07:52.160 --> 1:07:55.400 get it. His first little taste of fame was in 1:07:55.480 --> 1:07:59.720 nineteen fifty one when Time magazine profiled his street preaching 1:08:00.000 --> 1:08:02.760 who say It against dirty humor? He did not like 1:08:02.840 --> 1:08:06.120 dirty jokes, and in nineteen fifty two he also got 1:08:06.400 --> 1:08:09.400 a Time right up Like for doing street ministry work 1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:13.520 on college campuses against petting and making out and backseat 1:08:13.560 --> 1:08:16.560 of cars. So I guess he hated hand jobs and 1:08:16.680 --> 1:08:18.479 getting and felt getting felt up. 1:08:18.880 --> 1:08:22.360 Yeah, I don't know. Don't even get him started on fingering. 1:08:22.520 --> 1:08:25.320 Oh my god, you're going straight to hell. 1:08:26.439 --> 1:08:29.400 But he was just obsessed with human sexuality and controlling 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:32.840 it for truly six decades. And so I'm doing what 1:08:32.880 --> 1:08:34.559 you're not supposed to do. But like, what was this 1:08:34.640 --> 1:08:38.240 man hiding? Like what are you hiding, sir? So up 1:08:38.240 --> 1:08:40.920 in everyone's business. I feel like he's like fucking sheep 1:08:41.000 --> 1:08:44.000 or something, or like eating shit in a dominatrix office 1:08:46.160 --> 1:08:50.760 while while evangel I can't even say the word evangelizing. 1:08:51.360 --> 1:08:53.960 And I went to an evangelical college to say that 1:08:55.240 --> 1:08:59.000 while evangelizing whatever. And you know, one of the worst 1:08:59.000 --> 1:09:02.000 states in America in Arizona. So he was in Phoenix 1:09:02.120 --> 1:09:05.360 and that's where he met Margie Simms and they got 1:09:05.400 --> 1:09:08.519 married in nineteen fifty two, and two years later they 1:09:08.600 --> 1:09:13.000 settled in Topeka, Kansas. He founded the church in nineteen 1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:17.679 fifty five, and he described it as primitive Baptist, so 1:09:18.240 --> 1:09:22.439 whatever that means. To make income during this time, he 1:09:22.520 --> 1:09:25.640 sold vacuum cleaners and baby carriages, so he is like 1:09:25.680 --> 1:09:29.800 a salesman of some sorts and wildly though, he was 1:09:29.880 --> 1:09:32.400 able to get a law degree from Washburne University in 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.840 nineteen sixty two after attending and getting kicked out and 1:09:35.880 --> 1:09:38.400 having to shuffle around four different colleges and none of 1:09:38.400 --> 1:09:42.000 them seem real. He went to Bob Jones University, that's 1:09:42.080 --> 1:09:43.760 a bowling man, that's a bowling star. 1:09:43.920 --> 1:09:44.960 That's not a college. 1:09:45.120 --> 1:09:51.040 He got kicked out, John Muir univers College, Prairie Bible Institute, 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:54.400 and Arizona Bible Institute, where he was finally able to 1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:55.200 get a degree. 1:09:55.520 --> 1:09:56.599 So that's his education. 1:09:56.800 --> 1:09:59.160 And so most of the family, they live on the 1:09:59.160 --> 1:10:00.080 family compound and. 1:10:01.600 --> 1:10:02.320 They all kind of. 1:10:02.280 --> 1:10:06.160 Practiced law so and before that, like all thirties, so 1:10:06.160 --> 1:10:09.000 he had thirteen kids, and all thirteen kids had to 1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:11.439 sell candy door to door in the seventies and the 1:10:11.479 --> 1:10:14.000 proceeds were the main income source for the family. 1:10:14.479 --> 1:10:16.200 So he straight I hate when I see this. 1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:19.439 He's straight up as like running up subway basketball kids 1:10:19.479 --> 1:10:22.639 selling em and m's business to support his family. 1:10:23.520 --> 1:10:27.320 Yeah, it really hurts my soul when I see children 1:10:27.360 --> 1:10:29.720 having to sell things with like parents glaring at them 1:10:29.760 --> 1:10:33.519 from the distance, like it's just not a good way 1:10:33.520 --> 1:10:35.360 to live, and I feel really bad. So these kids 1:10:35.360 --> 1:10:39.040 had to go door to door selling candy. But I personally, 1:10:39.439 --> 1:10:42.120 for just my basketball team, I loved the briefcase of 1:10:42.160 --> 1:10:43.400 chocolate bars I got to sell. 1:10:44.000 --> 1:10:46.240 It was like receis sick. It was like a fun 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:46.800 ass box. 1:10:46.840 --> 1:10:49.040 Sometimes we would sell airheads in a ziploc bag, but 1:10:49.080 --> 1:10:51.519 when I got that little chocolate briefcase, I did really 1:10:51.600 --> 1:10:52.000 enjoy it. 1:10:52.360 --> 1:10:55.000 I always sold magazine subscriptions in wrapping paper. 1:10:55.760 --> 1:10:58.400 My parents wouldn't see anything. Like my parents wouldn't let 1:10:58.439 --> 1:11:00.360 me participate in things like that. 1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:04.240 It was called the Great Paper Chase and which when 1:11:04.280 --> 1:11:07.120 it was MAGA, when it was magazine subscriptions. I probably 1:11:07.120 --> 1:11:08.519 talked about this on the podcast. But my mom's a 1:11:08.560 --> 1:11:10.680 pediatrician with two offices, so she would just buy a 1:11:10.680 --> 1:11:12.519 ton of subscriptions for magazines at her office. And I 1:11:12.560 --> 1:11:15.439 would always win the limo ride to McDonald's. I want 1:11:15.439 --> 1:11:18.120 to take a limo ride to McDonald's, but like twenty 1:11:18.120 --> 1:11:19.920 of us would win the limo ride to McDonald's. There 1:11:19.920 --> 1:11:21.280 were like twenty of us in the limo. Was like 1:11:21.320 --> 1:11:24.080 the top twenty sellers, Like it wasn't just me. Imagine 1:11:24.120 --> 1:11:26.400 me alone with like a happy meal, well and the 1:11:26.439 --> 1:11:29.559 principle or something. You know, sometimes you get to do 1:11:29.920 --> 1:11:30.679 something like that. 1:11:31.000 --> 1:11:32.080 No, but it is weird that. 1:11:32.040 --> 1:11:35.360 It was like they encourage children to just knock on 1:11:35.439 --> 1:11:39.360 doors and sell wrapping paper, like even after kids were 1:11:39.360 --> 1:11:40.320 put on milk cartons. 1:11:40.400 --> 1:11:44.320 Yeah, I did that. I knocked on doors in my neighborhood. Yeah, 1:11:44.439 --> 1:11:46.200 I was like, do you want any wrapping paper? And 1:11:46.200 --> 1:11:48.280 then like, we don't even have it on us. They're 1:11:48.280 --> 1:11:50.400 buying it all out of a catalog. Yeah, oh yeah, 1:11:50.400 --> 1:11:54.600 you're not like carrying bins. Yeah, we're like, we'll be 1:11:54.640 --> 1:11:56.400 back to deliver it when it comes in. It's the 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:57.160 weirdest thing. 1:11:57.920 --> 1:12:00.479 So, yeah, the kids were just out there working like 1:12:00.600 --> 1:12:05.240 Cara Clank and people from their town hated them as well, 1:12:06.000 --> 1:12:08.160 but if they needed to win a case, they would 1:12:08.200 --> 1:12:09.360 still go to them for cases. 1:12:09.800 --> 1:12:11.640 And that was who said that. 1:12:11.680 --> 1:12:14.679 Religious writer Bill Sherman after visiting the town and family, 1:12:14.760 --> 1:12:17.439 and he told that to NPR. So eleven of his 1:12:17.520 --> 1:12:21.479 thirteen children have law degrees. Yeah, and they have this 1:12:21.600 --> 1:12:23.320 law firm and they actually did a lot of civil 1:12:23.400 --> 1:12:26.519 rights cases and stuff like that. But so, yeah, everyone 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:29.080 in the town is disgusted hates them, but if they 1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:31.120 have to go to court, they go to this family. 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:33.040 But is it like civil rights, Like I have the 1:12:33.040 --> 1:12:34.840 civil right to not make a cake for a gay 1:12:34.880 --> 1:12:36.160 couple because I don't believe in it. 1:12:36.240 --> 1:12:40.200 Like no, like they truly represented black people when. 1:12:40.040 --> 1:12:40.839 They had issues. 1:12:41.360 --> 1:12:44.519 Oh wow, Yeah, money's money, I think to them, and 1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:45.360 they're latigious. 1:12:45.360 --> 1:12:46.240 They're very litigious. 1:12:46.240 --> 1:12:49.479 We'll get more into like what drives them, but they're 1:12:49.520 --> 1:12:53.639 just like very litigious, that's all I have to say. 1:12:53.800 --> 1:12:57.800 Like they they outside of the selling candy. Like, the 1:12:57.880 --> 1:13:02.200 way this church makes money is suing towns that won't 1:13:02.280 --> 1:13:03.799 let them protest and winning. 1:13:04.439 --> 1:13:06.000 Like they know the laws so well. 1:13:06.040 --> 1:13:09.720 They're kind of geniuses in the law and litigation, and 1:13:09.800 --> 1:13:12.280 so they kind of sue people constantly and win. 1:13:12.400 --> 1:13:14.120 They're terrorized. They're like terrorists. 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:17.960 So yeah, like I said, so, the family law practice 1:13:17.960 --> 1:13:20.679 pays for the bills for all their travels across the country, 1:13:21.040 --> 1:13:23.759 and they also make money suing the communities that stop 1:13:23.800 --> 1:13:27.519 them from demonstrating. And the children of the Phelps family 1:13:27.560 --> 1:13:30.120 are raised in the church's beliefs and their upbringing offers 1:13:30.280 --> 1:13:33.920 very few changes or like chance, very few chances to 1:13:33.960 --> 1:13:38.599 integrate into mainstream society. They have no friends, Like everyone 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:41.000 in school kind of hated them. They were outcasts, all 1:13:41.040 --> 1:13:43.879 the children, and they are taught to hold hateful beliefs 1:13:43.920 --> 1:13:46.400 and that anybody not in their church is going to hell. 1:13:46.520 --> 1:13:50.200 And that is that four of the children are estranged 1:13:51.160 --> 1:13:54.880 and nine are still in the church today. One of 1:13:54.920 --> 1:13:58.799 his strange children, Nathan, said that Phelps abused his children 1:13:58.840 --> 1:14:02.160 and his wife and it cultated an atmosphere of fear 1:14:02.320 --> 1:14:06.599 to maintain his authority. And the strange kids have talked 1:14:06.600 --> 1:14:09.000 about being beaten with a mattic handle, which is a 1:14:09.040 --> 1:14:14.040 type of ax. So he was a physically abusive man. 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:16.519 But it's just this one sunset it. There's not really 1:14:17.720 --> 1:14:20.759 there's not a bunch of information about the abuse within, 1:14:22.400 --> 1:14:23.080 so I don't know. 1:14:23.080 --> 1:14:25.280 And then like Megan, the granddaughter that ended up. 1:14:25.360 --> 1:14:29.120 Escaping, like there, she was quoted saying, like outside of 1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:31.040 all this fucked up shit that they made him do, 1:14:31.280 --> 1:14:34.839 like they did homework together and events and they cooked together, 1:14:34.920 --> 1:14:38.439 and like there, it was weird for her because they 1:14:38.439 --> 1:14:42.720 did good parental or grandfathery things. But then also were 1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:45.599 demons and so it's kind of like hard. So his 1:14:45.640 --> 1:14:49.880 first church service was held November twenty seventh, nineteen fifty five, 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:54.080 and in nineteen sixty four he founded the law firm 1:14:54.080 --> 1:14:58.599 that I mentioned, Phelps chartered, and it represents the church 1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:02.120 in all of its civil suits. The Kansas Supreme Court, though, 1:15:02.200 --> 1:15:04.960 dispart him in nineteen seventy nine, stating that he showed 1:15:04.960 --> 1:15:08.280 little regard for the ethics of his profession. He's also 1:15:09.080 --> 1:15:13.000 run He tried to run in five Democratic primaries in Kansas, 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:13.800 but he never won. 1:15:14.560 --> 1:15:17.080 Why Democratic, Well, he hates everyone. 1:15:17.280 --> 1:15:21.400 He like, he hates Ronald Reagan, he hates Republican like 1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:26.400 the he hates everyone. It's not Wow, it's not based 1:15:26.600 --> 1:15:28.840 on Republican Democrat, right wing, left wing. 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:31.240 Anyone outside the church is going to hell like he does. 1:15:31.400 --> 1:15:33.160 Right, But if anybody's going to vote for somebody like that, 1:15:33.200 --> 1:15:35.200 it's it's Republicans more likely. 1:15:35.400 --> 1:15:36.880 Oh no, you're totally right, am. 1:15:36.960 --> 1:15:38.840 I read somewhere the only two people that he liked 1:15:38.840 --> 1:15:41.000 were Fidel Castro and Saddam Hussein. 1:15:41.479 --> 1:15:44.200 Oh my god, and that once? Is this just like 1:15:44.280 --> 1:15:48.439 a megalomaniac with like probably some serious issue. I mean, 1:15:48.479 --> 1:15:50.479 that's like, well, he was born in nineteen twenty nine, 1:15:50.520 --> 1:15:53.760 isn't that like the depression. Yeah, so he grew up 1:15:53.760 --> 1:15:56.040 starving maybe like he didn't get the nourishment he needed 1:15:56.040 --> 1:15:58.760 for his brain cells to form. Like who fucking knows. 1:15:59.439 --> 1:16:01.799 So we're going now like that's kind of the background 1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:04.680 on him. And now for the Westboro Baptist Church. So 1:16:04.720 --> 1:16:08.120 the website is still active and it's God Hates f 1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:11.800 Words dot com. Like that's the website. You're you are 1:16:12.600 --> 1:16:14.840 not Westborough Baptist Church. And what happens when you go 1:16:14.880 --> 1:16:17.280 to it? Oh, I went to it. I'll yeah, I'll 1:16:17.520 --> 1:16:18.960 you know, I can. I can tell you right now. 1:16:18.960 --> 1:16:20.519 It's on their website. 1:16:20.560 --> 1:16:21.639 It's kicking. They're up to. 1:16:21.640 --> 1:16:23.800 Date, like they have up to date of all the 1:16:23.880 --> 1:16:26.479 latest sermons, some of which are like days ago from 1:16:26.520 --> 1:16:29.800 when we're recording. Like they are uploading YouTube, like they 1:16:29.800 --> 1:16:32.880 are uploading videos and sermons to this day. And they 1:16:32.880 --> 1:16:35.760 have public a public preaching schedule. So if you're free 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:39.200 in February, they'll be at the T Mobile Center in 1:16:39.280 --> 1:16:44.320 Kansas picketing the juds Bruce Springsteen and Disney on ice. 1:16:45.040 --> 1:16:48.920 So if that's what you'd like to be doing. So, 1:16:49.080 --> 1:16:49.720 Westborough's a. 1:16:49.720 --> 1:16:53.320 Kansas based church that the Southern Law Poverty Center describes 1:16:53.360 --> 1:16:56.920 as a family based cult and arguably the most obnoxious 1:16:56.960 --> 1:17:00.280 and rabid hate group in America. And even so, they 1:17:00.280 --> 1:17:03.360 are socially conservative Christian like right vibes. 1:17:03.400 --> 1:17:04.880 They are not patriots. 1:17:05.320 --> 1:17:08.879 They're on the compound as an upside down American flag. 1:17:09.080 --> 1:17:10.519 They've stomped on the flag. 1:17:10.840 --> 1:17:13.760 So yeah, they hate everyone, not just liberals, like they 1:17:13.760 --> 1:17:16.160 went after Ronald Reagan. They don't give a fuck, they 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:20.920 really don't. They believe that God is unforgiving, a vengeful 1:17:20.960 --> 1:17:24.920 God poised to destroy a nation of sinners. He began 1:17:25.000 --> 1:17:28.200 his anti gay demonstrations around nineteen ninety one after one 1:17:28.280 --> 1:17:32.280 of his grandsons was propositioned at Topeka Gauge Park. But 1:17:32.439 --> 1:17:34.800 like that sounds gay as fuck. Of course there's some 1:17:35.360 --> 1:17:38.280 propositioning happening. I don't know, like Gauge, I don't know. 1:17:38.920 --> 1:17:41.400 So that's when they started, and then they gained notoriety 1:17:41.400 --> 1:17:44.400 in nineteen ninety eight when it's members picketed at the 1:17:44.400 --> 1:17:47.519 funeral of Matthew Shepherd, who was a twenty one year 1:17:47.520 --> 1:17:50.959 old student at the University of Wyoming who's brutally attacked, 1:17:51.439 --> 1:17:53.799 tied to a fence, and left to die, all because 1:17:53.840 --> 1:17:54.400 he was gay. 1:17:55.080 --> 1:17:58.120 That one of the most horrific crimes in the nation. 1:17:58.240 --> 1:18:01.200 I would say they started protesting at the funerals of 1:18:01.200 --> 1:18:06.080 public figures. Children I'm like killed in bus accidents, soldiers 1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.240 killed in war. One time, they were planning on protesting 1:18:09.240 --> 1:18:12.400 at a nine year old's funeral of Christina Green, and 1:18:12.439 --> 1:18:13.880 she was one of the victims. Do you remember the 1:18:13.880 --> 1:18:16.920 shooting in Tucson. It was outside of a supermarket where 1:18:16.960 --> 1:18:21.320 six people died. Another thirteen were wounded, including US Congresswoman 1:18:21.360 --> 1:18:25.320 Gabrielle Gifford's. So they wanted to go protest at this 1:18:25.400 --> 1:18:29.280 nine year old's funeral. So Arizona actually quickly enacted legislation 1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:31.919 to ban protests within three hundred feet of the funeral 1:18:32.320 --> 1:18:35.080 and made it illegal for protesters to be present within 1:18:35.840 --> 1:18:38.400 within an hour of the funeral's start or finish. And 1:18:38.439 --> 1:18:40.800 the church actually decided not to attend and ruin the 1:18:40.840 --> 1:18:44.559 child's funeral because a radio station offered airtime for exchange 1:18:44.600 --> 1:18:47.360 of not going. Because their whole thing is like attention. 1:18:47.479 --> 1:18:50.360 They just want attention. Yeah, fame, fame, fame. They did 1:18:50.360 --> 1:18:53.240 the same thing when five Amish girls were murdered in 1:18:53.280 --> 1:18:56.960 the Pennsylvania schoolhouse in two thousand and six another like that, 1:18:57.040 --> 1:19:00.519 I remember that really shocking my life, life, in the 1:19:00.520 --> 1:19:03.040 life of this country. And it's so fucked up thinking 1:19:03.080 --> 1:19:06.640 how many more shootings have happened since. Like I just 1:19:07.000 --> 1:19:11.320 I just remember that like ruining, ruining my life, like. 1:19:11.720 --> 1:19:13.599 That was so horrific. And now it's like. 1:19:15.040 --> 1:19:17.280 That was just somebody just walked into a schoolhouse and 1:19:17.360 --> 1:19:20.160 killed a bunch of kids. I don't remember this Amish kids. Yeah, 1:19:20.520 --> 1:19:22.639 my god, but they. 1:19:22.479 --> 1:19:24.559 Did the same thing, like they didn't pick it for 1:19:24.600 --> 1:19:27.960 one hour of airtime on a talk show. Shirley Phelps Roper, 1:19:28.080 --> 1:19:31.599 she's actually the daughter and she's in charge of the 1:19:31.640 --> 1:19:35.320 cult today. She was on Hannity and Colmes on Fox 1:19:35.400 --> 1:19:38.040 News on October third, two thousand and six, and she 1:19:38.080 --> 1:19:41.920 said they did deserve to die about the Amish girls. 1:19:42.520 --> 1:19:44.800 Thank you Fox News for giving her a platform. Yeah, 1:19:44.840 --> 1:19:46.760 that's actually what I was thinking. It's like I just 1:19:46.840 --> 1:19:48.439 I don't think I was in the know as much 1:19:48.520 --> 1:19:50.519 or maybe Fox News and like Trump and everything has 1:19:50.600 --> 1:19:51.720 changed and made it worse, Like. 1:19:51.920 --> 1:19:54.839 How fuck what the fuck? They've always just been twisted? 1:19:55.479 --> 1:19:55.800 Mm hm. 1:19:56.720 --> 1:19:59.439 You would have someone on talking about how these like 1:19:59.560 --> 1:20:01.479 young girls desert to die. 1:20:01.479 --> 1:20:03.479 It's like sick to me, it's really sick. 1:20:04.080 --> 1:20:04.559 So yeah. 1:20:04.600 --> 1:20:06.640 And then after all of that, the dozens of like 1:20:06.760 --> 1:20:09.599 dozens of states and for the federal government passed laws 1:20:09.600 --> 1:20:11.960 to create buffer areas near the sites of funerals, so 1:20:12.000 --> 1:20:15.120 they kind of like help legislation to leave people alone. 1:20:15.640 --> 1:20:19.160 And a lot of times Fred Phelps would like call 1:20:19.320 --> 1:20:21.720 ahead of time and get all the permits in a 1:20:21.800 --> 1:20:25.479 row to protest at these places, and then it would 1:20:25.520 --> 1:20:27.760 get a media frenzy and then he wouldn't even go 1:20:27.840 --> 1:20:30.240 because he would be offered the radio, like he just 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:33.679 wanted attention, So sometimes he wouldn't even attend some of these. 1:20:33.760 --> 1:20:34.840 It was just to like. 1:20:36.800 --> 1:20:37.599 Create a storm. 1:20:38.040 --> 1:20:40.519 The Southern Poverty Law Center states that the church claims 1:20:40.520 --> 1:20:43.599 to have picketed more than forty thousand times since they 1:20:43.680 --> 1:20:46.840 started in June nineteen ninety one. Other reports had like 1:20:46.880 --> 1:20:49.920 fifty three thousand. But this is just like off of 1:20:49.960 --> 1:20:53.760 their word and they're truly unhinged. Reportedly, they picketed a 1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:58.280 local restaurant in Topeka, Kansas every day for three years 1:20:58.320 --> 1:21:00.839 because its owner knowingly and Lloyd a lesbian. 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:02.439 It's so fucked up. 1:21:02.920 --> 1:21:06.720 In twenty eleven, Shirley Philips Roper, the churches spokeswoman, said 1:21:06.720 --> 1:21:09.360 to NPR that the members want to punish Americans for 1:21:09.439 --> 1:21:13.479 tolerating homosexuality. They pick at funerals to make people angry, 1:21:13.520 --> 1:21:16.160 to reject God and be condemned to hell. So they're 1:21:16.320 --> 1:21:19.280 like twisted, like they don't want to save people like 1:21:19.320 --> 1:21:23.240 what we're used to Christians doing. She continues in quotes, 1:21:23.280 --> 1:21:26.240 We're supposed to blind their eyes, stop up their ears, 1:21:26.280 --> 1:21:29.519 and harden their hearts so they cannot see, hear, or 1:21:29.640 --> 1:21:34.160 understand and be converted and receive salvation. One of the 1:21:34.360 --> 1:21:37.360 granddaughters who ended up leaving, Megan Phelps. Roper, said that 1:21:37.439 --> 1:21:40.880 when she was eleven, mother Teresa and Princess Diana died 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:43.240 in one week, and in their home what. 1:21:43.320 --> 1:21:45.880 Was said was, oh, look, two wars died in one week. 1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:49.240 So like that's how she was raised, Like that's the language, 1:21:49.240 --> 1:21:53.560 and that's how she learned about life. And yeah, like 1:21:53.600 --> 1:21:55.960 they just knew nothing else, but like that's how everything 1:21:56.040 --> 1:21:56.679 was talked about. 1:21:56.720 --> 1:21:58.559 They were celebrating that people were in hell. 1:21:59.680 --> 1:22:03.280 Yeah, and Megan was asked one time on Reality Check 1:22:03.320 --> 1:22:07.400 with John Avlon, extremist beat on CNN, if there was 1:22:07.439 --> 1:22:10.200 ever any questioning in the house or discussions if this 1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:13.000 was the best way to go about life, and she 1:22:13.120 --> 1:22:17.599 said absolutely not, lol. And I've mentioned this, but she said, 1:22:17.640 --> 1:22:20.599 like success to them was to get attention, and the 1:22:20.600 --> 1:22:22.960 more attention they got meant that the media and people 1:22:23.920 --> 1:22:26.920 and for them, that was evidence for them that God 1:22:26.960 --> 1:22:30.519 made their work prosper So attention was validation that they 1:22:30.520 --> 1:22:33.240 were doing the right thing in the eyes of God. 1:22:33.720 --> 1:22:36.479 And their goal of picketing isn't to win followers, but 1:22:36.560 --> 1:22:40.240 only to warn people of their coming damnation. They believe 1:22:40.280 --> 1:22:43.000 that God does not love everyone. They believe God does 1:22:43.080 --> 1:22:45.920 not preach love, but that he is a vengeful God. 1:22:46.000 --> 1:22:48.040 And they claim that God doesn't just hate the sin, 1:22:48.200 --> 1:22:51.640 but also the sinner, so like truly hateful, because I 1:22:51.640 --> 1:22:57.479 feel like sometimes religious people like hide their bigotry by 1:22:57.560 --> 1:22:59.519 pretending it's love, but these people are not. 1:23:00.080 --> 1:23:02.880 They don't pretend. Yeah, they're just like I'll pray for you, like, 1:23:02.960 --> 1:23:06.640 but they don't, you know, wish you damnation Like these 1:23:06.680 --> 1:23:11.920 people seem to celebrate in people's internal damnation. Yeah. 1:23:11.960 --> 1:23:14.240 And they had a huge win in March of twenty 1:23:14.280 --> 1:23:17.439 eleven in the Supreme Court, where the First Amendment protected 1:23:17.439 --> 1:23:19.080 their right to hold antigay. 1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:20.440 Protests outside the military funerals. 1:23:20.960 --> 1:23:24.000 So even with all the funerals they were protesting and 1:23:24.040 --> 1:23:27.519 the attention that they received, and this like huge victory 1:23:27.520 --> 1:23:29.600 in the Supreme Court. You would think this is like 1:23:29.640 --> 1:23:33.479 a giant enterprise. But the church only had one hundred members. 1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:37.479 There were only one hundred members of this church because 1:23:37.520 --> 1:23:41.320 they're too extreme. They're too extreme to be big, I know. 1:23:41.400 --> 1:23:43.559 And and it's all from the family of one man. 1:23:43.760 --> 1:23:46.760 Like it's mostly all family members or distant families, so 1:23:46.960 --> 1:23:50.200 it's all people related to Fred Phelps. They have no 1:23:50.320 --> 1:23:54.040 friends anywhere, no other Baptists, no far right organizations. They 1:23:54.040 --> 1:23:57.840 are very isolated, very very isolated. They're banned in the 1:23:57.920 --> 1:24:02.000 UK and Canada, and the group neither slit sits nor 1:24:02.040 --> 1:24:06.920 accepts outside donations. Fred died in twenty fourteen and has 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:09.360 been and like I said, it's been being run by 1:24:09.360 --> 1:24:12.800 his daughter, Shirley Phelps Roper, who is the public face 1:24:12.880 --> 1:24:17.000 of the church with her sister Margie Phelps. No communications 1:24:17.040 --> 1:24:19.400 are allowed with those who leave. The children that have 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:21.880 left have spoke out about the brainwashing they received from 1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:24.920 a super young age. And again like allegations of physical 1:24:24.920 --> 1:24:28.839 and mental abuse, Megan Phelps Roper. She was Phelps's granddaughter 1:24:28.880 --> 1:24:32.120 and began protesting at funerals when she was nineteen years old. 1:24:32.520 --> 1:24:34.880 She said, their whole life centered around the church, and 1:24:34.880 --> 1:24:37.559 it was mostly family and extended family members, and that's it. 1:24:37.600 --> 1:24:40.040 And she grew up with the mentality of like us 1:24:40.080 --> 1:24:43.599 against the world, and we were good and everyone was bad, 1:24:43.680 --> 1:24:45.840 and we all had to warn them, and that they 1:24:45.880 --> 1:24:48.160 were the only hope that to save these people, if 1:24:48.200 --> 1:24:50.679 they could ever be saved, was this group. 1:24:51.360 --> 1:24:51.720 She said. 1:24:51.720 --> 1:24:55.800 They were also careful to never ever use their personal beliefs, 1:24:55.840 --> 1:24:59.040 like all the signs said God hates and you know, 1:24:59.040 --> 1:25:01.439 it was all about God's standards and his standards of 1:25:01.479 --> 1:25:03.360 living and had nothing to do with them. 1:25:03.680 --> 1:25:06.240 So it wasn't like we hate it, We're just like 1:25:07.040 --> 1:25:08.200 God hates this. 1:25:09.320 --> 1:25:12.880 She was appointed to running the Westboro Twitter account and 1:25:12.920 --> 1:25:16.160 that's when she began questioning the church's hateful teaching. So 1:25:16.160 --> 1:25:18.519 that was in two thousand and nine, and so then 1:25:18.520 --> 1:25:23.120 people started asking questions and digging into her theology via Twitter. 1:25:23.320 --> 1:25:25.519 This is like an actual good thing that happened with Twitter, 1:25:25.560 --> 1:25:28.000 and she was able to have her faith shaken. And 1:25:28.040 --> 1:25:30.160 when she started to feel and then she like started 1:25:30.160 --> 1:25:33.120 to feel empathy and then became ashamed of what she 1:25:33.200 --> 1:25:37.520 was doing, and Twitter helped her find internal inconsistencies. 1:25:38.240 --> 1:25:40.200 She actually met her now husband on. 1:25:40.120 --> 1:25:42.080 Twitter and he was one of the people tweeting with 1:25:42.120 --> 1:25:46.880 her to help like change her opinions. And she said 1:25:46.920 --> 1:25:48.840 she was like really shocked because. 1:25:48.680 --> 1:25:52.000 I can't believe Twitter changed somebody's opinion. I know, Like 1:25:52.520 --> 1:25:53.920 I can't believe it happened. 1:25:54.360 --> 1:25:57.320 I know, and like it was just cool because she 1:25:57.360 --> 1:26:00.479 said obviously, like there was so much like fuck you, 1:26:00.560 --> 1:26:00.920 fuck you. 1:26:01.520 --> 1:26:02.519 Yeah, she was. 1:26:02.520 --> 1:26:04.639 Really shocked because but she was used to that because 1:26:04.640 --> 1:26:07.720 it's us versus the world. And then what shocked her 1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:10.080 was like the empathy she received from people and people 1:26:10.160 --> 1:26:14.360 actually questioning her and being kind and like and her. 1:26:14.240 --> 1:26:15.519 Husband was one of those guys. 1:26:16.160 --> 1:26:18.280 So she left the church in twenty twelve with her 1:26:18.320 --> 1:26:21.679 sister Grace, and they flee to South Dakota. You know, like, girl, 1:26:21.800 --> 1:26:25.640 there's a lot of better states to go to. I'm 1:26:25.680 --> 1:26:27.559 being so mean to these states in. 1:26:27.520 --> 1:26:30.679 This Yeah, you did say something mean about Arizona before, 1:26:30.720 --> 1:26:32.040 and I do want to say that when we were 1:26:32.040 --> 1:26:34.400 at Tempe, Arizona doing a live show, you really enjoyed 1:26:34.400 --> 1:26:35.000 the hotel there. 1:26:35.000 --> 1:26:38.120 I remember, I always have a good time in Arizona. 1:26:38.360 --> 1:26:41.320 I do a joke about this, but like republic Republicans 1:26:41.360 --> 1:26:44.600 who can't afford a boat is embarrassing to me, like 1:26:44.680 --> 1:26:48.840 to be landlocked Republicans and they're all swingers. I don't know, 1:26:48.920 --> 1:26:51.960 Like I just do funny jokes about Arizona. It's fine, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1:26:52.000 --> 1:26:55.960 But South Dakota truly like no comics go, check schedules, 1:26:55.960 --> 1:26:58.679 no comics go, and no musicians, no one. 1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:00.320 They don't have anything out. 1:27:00.479 --> 1:27:02.080 I don't even know if they have an art museum 1:27:02.240 --> 1:27:06.920 outside of the Mount Rushmore, which is like a disgusting thing, 1:27:07.160 --> 1:27:10.880 you know, like if you have fun things to do 1:27:10.920 --> 1:27:12.240 in South Dakota, let me know. 1:27:12.360 --> 1:27:13.880 My sister went with, you know once. 1:27:14.800 --> 1:27:17.639 So the next month, like after her and her sister 1:27:17.720 --> 1:27:22.080 Grace left, was the Sandy Hook massacre and Westboro announced 1:27:22.120 --> 1:27:25.160 it would protest the memorials, and she said she remembers 1:27:25.200 --> 1:27:28.479 feeling relief like not having to be there, and then 1:27:28.520 --> 1:27:31.479 she felt distressed over the amount of time she had 1:27:31.520 --> 1:27:35.200 done the exact same thing. And since she left, there's 1:27:35.200 --> 1:27:37.559 an understanding that even if her family sees her in 1:27:37.560 --> 1:27:40.360 public there should be absolutely no interaction at all, and 1:27:40.400 --> 1:27:43.080 they pretend not to see her, but she still tries 1:27:43.120 --> 1:27:45.200 to reach out to them because there's nothing to lose 1:27:45.240 --> 1:27:47.200 on her end, Like, she still doesn't get to see 1:27:47.200 --> 1:27:50.400 them anyways, So she sends birthday gifts and letters and 1:27:50.479 --> 1:27:52.760 does public interviews and hopes that they'll see her and 1:27:52.840 --> 1:27:56.200 like learn something new and be able to leave. But 1:27:56.320 --> 1:27:59.200 now she has a daughter and she's married to this dude, 1:27:59.280 --> 1:28:02.759 and she is still in South Dakota, but she really 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:05.719 misses her family, and she doesn't think that she's special, 1:28:06.280 --> 1:28:08.439 and she hopes and believes in their family and like 1:28:08.520 --> 1:28:11.280 the family's ability to change, because she's just like them 1:28:11.800 --> 1:28:14.040 and that I really like too, Like she just was 1:28:14.080 --> 1:28:16.600 like I was with them, I was brainwashed. I did it, 1:28:16.640 --> 1:28:18.720 and I was able to see the light. So she 1:28:18.840 --> 1:28:22.559 kind of has hope that one day they can all 1:28:24.280 --> 1:28:27.960 learn something and get out of there. So I watched 1:28:28.000 --> 1:28:31.320 an interview when she wrote her book in like twenty sixteen, seventeen, 1:28:31.680 --> 1:28:34.880 and she ended up thanking this guy John for writing 1:28:34.920 --> 1:28:39.080 this big article in twenty thirteen because she said she 1:28:39.120 --> 1:28:41.280 had never she didn't know people were going to be 1:28:41.320 --> 1:28:44.519 empathetic to her and like having that article be written 1:28:44.560 --> 1:28:47.880 about her in such a kind and like hopeful manner 1:28:48.040 --> 1:28:50.880 changed her whole perspective on the world, and like having 1:28:50.880 --> 1:28:53.960 all the comments and support really helped her, and she 1:28:54.080 --> 1:28:57.280 was quote in twenty thirteen. We were told a lot 1:28:57.320 --> 1:28:59.680 of things that weren't true, and we assume they were 1:28:59.720 --> 1:29:02.800 true because we didn't see any evidence otherwise, but we 1:29:02.800 --> 1:29:07.439 weren't really looking. And that really stuck with me because 1:29:07.520 --> 1:29:12.040 it made me think about like the George Floyd protests. 1:29:11.520 --> 1:29:12.200 And like. 1:29:13.680 --> 1:29:18.360 The Biela movement and just like being someone that felt like, 1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:22.439 why wasn't I taught this in school? And then a 1:29:22.439 --> 1:29:25.760 friend of mine tweeted, like you knew you were being 1:29:25.800 --> 1:29:27.960 taught the truth and you didn't go look for it, 1:29:28.479 --> 1:29:30.720 And I just remember being like, yeah, I guess I 1:29:30.800 --> 1:29:33.360 never searched for the truth, and I never educated myself 1:29:33.400 --> 1:29:37.360 more on like civil rights and black history in America 1:29:37.479 --> 1:29:38.920 and like not knowing these things. 1:29:38.920 --> 1:29:41.599 So sometimes we can blame school systems or what. 1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:43.400 We're given, or the media or anything, but we have 1:29:43.439 --> 1:29:46.240 to remember, like if you're not looking for the truth 1:29:46.400 --> 1:29:49.320 or trying to expand your mind, that you can be 1:29:49.439 --> 1:29:54.720 stuck in some regressive, bad things and to just like 1:29:54.800 --> 1:29:58.240 always be on the lookout to change your mind. 1:29:59.080 --> 1:30:01.320 Yeah, and that's bad. 1:30:01.400 --> 1:30:04.960 So hopefully, I mean they were a group with a 1:30:05.000 --> 1:30:08.720 lot of notoriety, So hopefully you guys learned something new 1:30:08.840 --> 1:30:10.920 or learned deeper shit about these people. 1:30:11.160 --> 1:30:14.760 But if not, I hope you hate South Dakota. I 1:30:14.800 --> 1:30:17.680 don't know what to tell you. Ah, And we have 1:30:17.920 --> 1:30:20.160 gad she got out. I really did like that article 1:30:20.320 --> 1:30:23.960 talking to her, like it was like there's possibilities. Sometimes 1:30:23.960 --> 1:30:25.400 you just think some of these people are beyond hope 1:30:25.439 --> 1:30:27.679 and like there is possibility of like getting them out. 1:30:27.760 --> 1:30:30.519 So yeah, it's just like hurts my heart knowing like 1:30:30.600 --> 1:30:33.240 her mom and aunts and these people that raised her 1:30:33.320 --> 1:30:36.760 are just like fuck her bye, You're dead to me now. 1:30:37.080 --> 1:30:40.439 And there's interviews with the mom there's like them like 1:30:40.520 --> 1:30:42.920 prota and she like they just don't give a fuck 1:30:43.000 --> 1:30:44.200 about the people that leave. 1:30:45.040 --> 1:30:48.840 Yeah. All right, Well we've got a great interview that's 1:30:48.880 --> 1:31:00.439 going to cleanse this palette perfectly, So don't go anywhere, Okay. 1:31:00.520 --> 1:31:03.559 Our guest today is an actor who's been a fixture 1:31:03.600 --> 1:31:06.880 on your TV for over thirty years. You know him 1:31:06.880 --> 1:31:09.759 for his roles in Spin City. R Less China Beach 1:31:09.880 --> 1:31:12.879 and The Good Fight But Today and many other episodes 1:31:12.920 --> 1:31:15.920 of SVU, you know him as the snappy defense attorney Dave. 1:31:16.000 --> 1:31:20.160 Sever guys, enjoy our conversation that we enjoyed so much 1:31:20.240 --> 1:31:22.080 with the amazing Michael Bowtman. 1:31:22.600 --> 1:31:24.719 Congrats on such an amazing career. 1:31:25.000 --> 1:31:27.280 Oh, thank you so much, thank you. 1:31:27.400 --> 1:31:30.080 I feel like you've killed it or what you know. 1:31:30.880 --> 1:31:33.360 That's a great question. I have to say. I'm one 1:31:33.439 --> 1:31:37.840 of those people that surprise surprise. I'm an actor. I'm 1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:43.479 a little neurotic. I'm a little not paranoid necessarily, but 1:31:43.520 --> 1:31:46.320 I'm definitely always sort of looking for the next, you know, 1:31:46.400 --> 1:31:48.320 the next hill to climb, if you will. 1:31:48.400 --> 1:31:48.600 You know. 1:31:49.400 --> 1:31:51.680 So every once in a while when someone comes up 1:31:51.720 --> 1:31:54.320 to me and says, as this is what happened to 1:31:54.360 --> 1:31:58.360 me just last night. I watched your show all the 1:31:58.360 --> 1:32:01.559 way from kindergarten to and this is an adult person 1:32:01.600 --> 1:32:04.160 talking to me, and she was talking about China Beach, 1:32:04.200 --> 1:32:06.479 which was a show I was on at the very 1:32:06.479 --> 1:32:09.040 beginning of my career in nineteen eighty eight. And this 1:32:09.200 --> 1:32:12.400 is like an industry professional person who's an adult with kids, 1:32:12.400 --> 1:32:15.799 and I was just like, wow, really, I still feel 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:19.120 like I'm eighteen years old. I don't, you know, totally 1:32:19.200 --> 1:32:20.679 And then I look back and then I go, wow, 1:32:20.720 --> 1:32:22.240 I guess you know, I've been around for a while. 1:32:22.280 --> 1:32:25.800 But listen, it makes I'm so grateful and happy to 1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:29.559 still be here and I'm one of those fortunate people 1:32:29.760 --> 1:32:32.559 I get to do something I love. As the joke goes, 1:32:32.720 --> 1:32:35.560 I would do this for free and they pay me. 1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:39.080 You know, I mean, so, wait, where do people recognize 1:32:39.120 --> 1:32:40.760 you the most from when they approach you? 1:32:41.240 --> 1:32:41.599 Oh? 1:32:41.640 --> 1:32:42.040 You know what. 1:32:42.080 --> 1:32:47.280 As time goes on, it changes. Of course, when China 1:32:47.320 --> 1:32:50.240 Beach was on, it was that. When SPA, when Spin 1:32:50.360 --> 1:32:52.640 City was on, it was that a lot. That was 1:32:52.680 --> 1:32:55.080 the biggest one for a long time because I had 1:32:55.080 --> 1:32:58.080 a larger audience and it was on for six seasons. 1:32:58.520 --> 1:33:00.400 But then I was also on a show called Arlists 1:33:00.439 --> 1:33:03.240 at the same time, and so, but that was a 1:33:03.280 --> 1:33:04.400 more specific audience. 1:33:04.439 --> 1:33:07.000 It was guys, how did you do that? 1:33:07.040 --> 1:33:08.320 At the same time, I. 1:33:08.200 --> 1:33:11.439 Had an unbelievable agent, Bob Gersh, thank you very much, 1:33:11.520 --> 1:33:14.080 who just sort of juggled it in a way that 1:33:14.160 --> 1:33:17.200 made it kind of and he was really smart because 1:33:17.439 --> 1:33:20.320 what happened was they actually shot it two separate times 1:33:20.320 --> 1:33:22.840 of the year. So spin City shot from the fall 1:33:22.920 --> 1:33:26.080 and to the spring, and then Arlest shot over the 1:33:26.120 --> 1:33:28.720 summer months. So that was because initially they were they 1:33:28.760 --> 1:33:30.479 weren't sure they would be able to make it work. 1:33:30.479 --> 1:33:33.479 But when they realized that, you know, I'd basically be 1:33:33.600 --> 1:33:36.720 sitting all summer unemployed if I didn't do it. 1:33:36.760 --> 1:33:38.479 And you're like, oh, well, that makes sense. 1:33:38.520 --> 1:33:41.559 So it's just a really great piece of agenting work 1:33:41.800 --> 1:33:43.160 and good fortune on my part. 1:33:43.360 --> 1:33:46.200 Wait, but for China Beach that did you meet Neil Bear? 1:33:46.320 --> 1:33:47.920 And did that have anything to do with SVU? 1:33:48.400 --> 1:33:50.200 No? You know what's crazy? 1:33:51.320 --> 1:33:55.040 And all I want to say, maybe I think I 1:33:55.120 --> 1:33:58.480 might have spoken to Neil once in all of these years, 1:33:58.840 --> 1:34:01.680 like on the phone, Like maybe at the very beginning 1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:09.720 when I started SVU back in Oh god, you know. 1:34:09.200 --> 1:34:11.519 You started around three. 1:34:11.600 --> 1:34:12.759 That well that makes sense. 1:34:13.000 --> 1:34:15.320 Yeah, And I feel like maybe he maybe he sent 1:34:15.400 --> 1:34:18.840 a message or I I just remember some distant conversation 1:34:18.960 --> 1:34:21.920 with him. And then every time I was on the show, 1:34:21.960 --> 1:34:23.840 I'd go, where's Neil Bear? Where's Neil Bear? 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:24.120 Never? 1:34:24.520 --> 1:34:27.519 And I never I haven't laid eyes on the guys. 1:34:27.560 --> 1:34:28.080 Crazy. 1:34:28.360 --> 1:34:31.720 It's crazy, it really is. I'm like you know, I 1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:34.880 got this great job. I love this. I just started 1:34:34.960 --> 1:34:39.360 up again on the new the new old Law and Order. Yeah, 1:34:39.439 --> 1:34:42.720 you know, playing the same character. And it's you know, 1:34:42.760 --> 1:34:45.040 it's like, thank you Neil Bear. You know, I've never 1:34:45.080 --> 1:34:48.240 been able to speak to him. Every episode I watch, 1:34:48.280 --> 1:34:50.320 I go it's the straight craziest thing in. 1:34:51.040 --> 1:34:53.080 Our podcast a couple of times. And maybe if he 1:34:53.120 --> 1:34:56.040 comes back on, we'll be like, Michael Bowman wants to 1:34:56.080 --> 1:34:56.519 talk to you. 1:34:56.680 --> 1:34:58.360 Please get us, get us together. 1:34:58.479 --> 1:35:01.519 And you know what, both those shows, well, all of 1:35:01.560 --> 1:35:03.559 those shows, all of the Dick Wolf shows, there's such 1:35:03.600 --> 1:35:06.200 a sort of a big They're just all part of 1:35:06.240 --> 1:35:09.559 such a huge machine. It's sort of hard to just 1:35:09.640 --> 1:35:13.360 like pin down one moving part of it just because 1:35:13.400 --> 1:35:14.680 you happen to be on the set, you know what 1:35:14.720 --> 1:35:14.920 I mean. 1:35:15.000 --> 1:35:17.639 There's so much going on so well. 1:35:17.479 --> 1:35:19.479 So if it wasn't through Neil bhar how did your 1:35:19.520 --> 1:35:22.640 Dick Wolf journey begin? How did you start in the 1:35:22.640 --> 1:35:23.599 Dick Wolf universe? 1:35:24.240 --> 1:35:28.679 So I got a call, Wow, that's such a great question. 1:35:28.840 --> 1:35:33.560 I did I did? I think it was Law and 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:38.320 Order first. So spin City ended in two thousand, Arlest 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:44.879 ended in two thousand and one, so around that time. Actually, 1:35:44.920 --> 1:35:47.960 while we were still while Spin City was still happening, 1:35:48.320 --> 1:35:52.880 they started this convention on SVU where they wanted sort 1:35:52.920 --> 1:35:58.360 of a recurring stable of defense attorneys. So Barry Bostwick 1:35:58.439 --> 1:36:00.400 I think, was the first of us on spin City 1:36:00.479 --> 1:36:03.600 to you know, to to sort of get called. And 1:36:03.640 --> 1:36:06.880 I remember him telling me before before they ever came 1:36:06.920 --> 1:36:10.000 to me to offer me the part of Dave sever 1:36:10.479 --> 1:36:13.439 he said, yeah, I guess they're looking for some just regular, 1:36:13.520 --> 1:36:16.080 you know actors, you know, familiar actors to play these 1:36:16.120 --> 1:36:18.559 sort of to come in and out. And I went, oh, 1:36:18.560 --> 1:36:20.840 that's cool. And then literally like two days later, I 1:36:20.840 --> 1:36:22.120 got a call, Hey, do you want to come on, 1:36:22.520 --> 1:36:26.120 you know, play this character. Yeah, And now, of course 1:36:26.320 --> 1:36:31.839 no actor ever thinks you know, my god, ten twelve thirteen. 1:36:32.400 --> 1:36:34.960 I think you know, years later, you know that you 1:36:36.000 --> 1:36:39.360 are kind of playing the same part, but that the 1:36:39.400 --> 1:36:41.919 world has expanded in so many ways. 1:36:42.000 --> 1:36:44.320 You know that that you can sort. 1:36:44.080 --> 1:36:48.439 Of become I mean, yeah, a recurring character, but over 1:36:49.040 --> 1:36:51.160 I mean literally now almost decades. 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:57.120 Yeah, you know, I think I think he's so memorable too. 1:36:57.200 --> 1:37:00.360 You were really funny, You're the funniest defensive Maybe Susie 1:37:00.439 --> 1:37:03.680 Esmond too, But like, as far as all the attorneys, 1:37:03.760 --> 1:37:09.560 you really have all the fun You're like kind of sassy. 1:37:09.640 --> 1:37:14.439 Like I've never been called sassy, and really I love it. 1:37:14.720 --> 1:37:15.320 I kind of love it. 1:37:15.400 --> 1:37:15.799 I wrote. 1:37:16.160 --> 1:37:19.320 I wrote funny, sassy, honest, self aware, and flirty. 1:37:19.760 --> 1:37:21.240 That's what I wrote about David. 1:37:21.600 --> 1:37:23.960 You know what, now that I think about it, that 1:37:24.040 --> 1:37:25.720 all of those have sort of been called for. 1:37:26.240 --> 1:37:27.200 It's kind of crazy. 1:37:27.320 --> 1:37:30.679 I have defended or prosecuted at one point or another, 1:37:31.439 --> 1:37:34.479 some actors and actresses that have gone on. 1:37:34.960 --> 1:37:38.600 I think I represented Zoe Saldana. 1:37:39.320 --> 1:37:42.720 Yeah, not her her dad, but yeah, did you know 1:37:42.800 --> 1:37:45.479 she would be in billionaire franchise movies? 1:37:45.960 --> 1:37:50.040 Of course not. You know, it's like, you know, pretty 1:37:50.080 --> 1:37:52.120 girl young I think she was. 1:37:52.320 --> 1:37:53.599 I don't know how old she was, or in her 1:37:53.600 --> 1:37:57.560 early twenties maybe, And then I, oh, god, who was 1:37:57.600 --> 1:37:58.879 the Paula Paula? 1:37:59.200 --> 1:38:01.759 Well, that's who you are really flirting with, Paula Patten 1:38:01.960 --> 1:38:02.559 and wet. 1:38:02.880 --> 1:38:05.200 And you know what, I never Wow, you're good. 1:38:05.600 --> 1:38:08.320 I never ever saw that episode, and I always wondered 1:38:08.360 --> 1:38:12.760 if that if that impression came off, because you know, 1:38:13.040 --> 1:38:15.200 it didn't call for it necessarily in the script. But 1:38:15.439 --> 1:38:18.439 I'm the kind of actor where you know, if if 1:38:18.439 --> 1:38:21.639 you give me a little, if you give me a leash, 1:38:21.760 --> 1:38:22.960 I'll take it. 1:38:24.080 --> 1:38:24.720 I'll run with you. 1:38:24.760 --> 1:38:27.880 Yeah, you should watch that one because it's a silly 1:38:28.000 --> 1:38:32.000 episode like Bensony. It's mushrooms on accident and gets high 1:38:32.080 --> 1:38:33.120 like it's a silly one. 1:38:33.240 --> 1:38:35.080 Oh my gosh, yeah, okay, I have to see it. 1:38:35.080 --> 1:38:36.120 I always wonder and. 1:38:36.040 --> 1:38:38.720 Like Paula Patten is very beautiful and it feels like 1:38:38.760 --> 1:38:40.960 you're not the only man in the episode that is flirting. 1:38:41.000 --> 1:38:43.760 Oh you know, like pretty much every man that encounters 1:38:43.760 --> 1:38:45.000 her is like hello. 1:38:45.720 --> 1:38:46.920 But that's hilarious. 1:38:47.000 --> 1:38:49.920 But in that episode. We actually just cover that episode 1:38:49.960 --> 1:38:52.240 at one of our live shows that we do, and 1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:55.040 you have such a funny moment because the actor Dave 1:38:55.160 --> 1:38:57.920 Crumholtz fires you like you're not in that episode for 1:38:57.960 --> 1:39:00.160 too too long, because he fires you really quickly, and 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:02.640 then you walk out and you go big mistake, and 1:39:02.680 --> 1:39:06.400 it's like a very pretty woman moment. It's like big mistake, huge, 1:39:06.520 --> 1:39:07.240 and we love it. 1:39:07.600 --> 1:39:08.599 Oh that's funny. 1:39:09.160 --> 1:39:11.880 So I literally for our live show. For our live 1:39:11.880 --> 1:39:14.439 show recently, I literally just took a picture of your 1:39:14.439 --> 1:39:17.000 face and I super imposed it on Julia Roberts from 1:39:17.000 --> 1:39:19.880 that scene and pretty woman. Yeah, and I wish I 1:39:19.880 --> 1:39:21.120 could show it to you right now, but I just 1:39:21.200 --> 1:39:22.280 don't have any right. 1:39:22.640 --> 1:39:24.400 Wait, how is it that? How do you do a 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:27.280 live show this way? This is hilarious, but we have 1:39:27.360 --> 1:39:28.160 power points? 1:39:28.200 --> 1:39:30.400 But yeah, we do a power point. So I was like, 1:39:30.439 --> 1:39:32.679 we were joking about how you had this pretty woman moment, 1:39:32.720 --> 1:39:34.320 and so I took a photo of your face and 1:39:34.360 --> 1:39:35.760 I put it on jewel and I don't know how 1:39:35.760 --> 1:39:37.840 to do photoshop at all, So it's like a very 1:39:37.960 --> 1:39:41.400 crude square picture of your head just splatter on her. 1:39:42.040 --> 1:39:43.120 You know, that's. 1:39:43.000 --> 1:39:45.759 Hilarious, A pretty woman moment? Oh my god? 1:39:46.920 --> 1:39:47.479 How is Oh? 1:39:47.560 --> 1:39:49.519 Yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna be like, how's 1:39:49.560 --> 1:39:50.320 Barry boss Wick? 1:39:51.200 --> 1:39:53.320 Love that man, love that man? 1:39:54.439 --> 1:39:58.519 Emailed or texted with him, I don't know, back in 1:39:58.560 --> 1:40:00.400 the summer, just hey, how's it going? And you know 1:40:00.479 --> 1:40:02.519 he's in La now. He went back to LA with 1:40:02.560 --> 1:40:06.479 his family and he's he's he's very Bostwick here. You know, 1:40:06.680 --> 1:40:09.679 the one of the craziest moments of another crazy moment 1:40:09.880 --> 1:40:14.759 of just synchronicity and weirdness that didn't necessarily happen because 1:40:14.760 --> 1:40:18.880 of SVU, but It was all while we were both 1:40:19.640 --> 1:40:21.639 had you know, by now we're sort of both back 1:40:21.720 --> 1:40:22.720 and forth in a little bit. 1:40:22.720 --> 1:40:25.960 I think maybe i'd done it once or twice and 1:40:26.040 --> 1:40:30.240 Bostwick had done it once. At one point we were 1:40:30.640 --> 1:40:33.080 where were we We were on a lunch break or something, 1:40:33.160 --> 1:40:36.559 if I recall, and it was around Halloween. Now we 1:40:36.600 --> 1:40:39.160 all had a green room on the set of Spin City. 1:40:39.200 --> 1:40:40.880 We were all, you know, we and most of us 1:40:41.000 --> 1:40:41.400 ate together. 1:40:41.520 --> 1:40:44.360 Mike Fox would come in sometimes and we'd all play 1:40:44.360 --> 1:40:46.880 ping pong or whatever. Just shoot the shoot the crab, 1:40:47.040 --> 1:40:50.960 Connie Britton, you know, Jennifer Esposito, just everybody who was on. 1:40:51.040 --> 1:40:53.280 I don't know if you know this, but Jennifer Esposito 1:40:53.439 --> 1:40:56.120 ends up. She ends up with iced tea in Sbu. 1:40:56.600 --> 1:41:00.479 There they get married, Yeah, they get there, they don't 1:41:00.520 --> 1:41:02.519 get married. They have a wedding, and then they don't 1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:05.120 get married. Yeah kidding. 1:41:05.160 --> 1:41:07.680 I never saw that. I have to look that up. 1:41:07.720 --> 1:41:08.439 Oh my god. 1:41:09.439 --> 1:41:15.360 But the surreal Bostwick moment. Bosswick would come by. Barry 1:41:15.360 --> 1:41:18.960 has a scathing sense of humor. I mean he he 1:41:19.040 --> 1:41:20.120 can just cut you down. 1:41:20.000 --> 1:41:23.320 With a look. I mean, he's an enormous, handsome man. 1:41:23.439 --> 1:41:25.320 He's six foot four, you know, he walks in. 1:41:25.800 --> 1:41:27.840 He's one of the only men other than maybe George 1:41:27.920 --> 1:41:30.000 Clooney or is that I've seen who You walk down 1:41:30.040 --> 1:41:32.800 the street with Barry Boswick and the women all and 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:36.120 some men just sort of they swoon. I mean, he's 1:41:36.120 --> 1:41:43.840 this impressive guy, so completely completely Coincidentally, we're at lunch 1:41:43.840 --> 1:41:46.559 one day. Bostwick's nowhere to be seen. He's up being 1:41:46.640 --> 1:41:50.400 doing Barry Bostwick stuff, being a legend, me, Alan Ruck, 1:41:50.800 --> 1:41:57.160 Connie Britton, I think, probably Esposito, Alexander Chaplin. We're all 1:41:57.320 --> 1:42:01.599 in the in the green room and Rocky Horror Picture 1:42:01.600 --> 1:42:05.920 shows on. So we're watching Rocky Horror Picture Show. It's 1:42:05.920 --> 1:42:08.280 so great, oh you know, and we're having fun and 1:42:08.320 --> 1:42:11.040 the people who know all the responses, yeah, bitch, you know, 1:42:11.080 --> 1:42:15.759 we're all doing that. Barry Bostwick walks into the room. Okay, 1:42:16.479 --> 1:42:19.800 now this is all just an accident. Bostwick walks into 1:42:19.800 --> 1:42:22.600 the room and he goes, oh, you guys are watching that, 1:42:22.640 --> 1:42:24.519 and he turns around and walks away, and we all go, no, 1:42:24.640 --> 1:42:25.400 come in, come in. 1:42:25.479 --> 1:42:28.559 You know, it's so fun, so much fun. Well, we 1:42:28.680 --> 1:42:32.920 start watching this thing and then something unbelievable happens. The 1:42:32.960 --> 1:42:36.840 time warp number comes up, we get up, and then 1:42:36.880 --> 1:42:40.479 Barry Bostwick gets up and we're doing the time warp 1:42:40.840 --> 1:42:46.280 Brad and watching Brad on the screen. And at that point, 1:42:46.280 --> 1:42:48.639 I literally thought the universe was going to like swirl 1:42:48.640 --> 1:42:50.080 down some kind of a drain and we were going 1:42:50.160 --> 1:42:52.600 to pop into a whole other universe. And it was 1:42:52.640 --> 1:42:56.759 one of the most surreal, crazy moments of my career. 1:42:57.120 --> 1:42:59.160 And he remembered all the steps, you know, do this 1:42:59.240 --> 1:43:00.160 step in the you. 1:43:00.160 --> 1:43:02.759 Know, Yeah, that is so funny. 1:43:02.760 --> 1:43:06.000 I think when you work with shows, you work on 1:43:06.080 --> 1:43:08.720 shows like that, that that. I think it's also a 1:43:08.760 --> 1:43:10.840 function of being a New York actor. 1:43:11.360 --> 1:43:12.679 You work with you know. 1:43:12.760 --> 1:43:15.680 The group of people I work with on SVU, you know, 1:43:16.240 --> 1:43:17.160 it's unbelievable. 1:43:17.479 --> 1:43:19.840 You know, everybody wants to be on these shows. 1:43:20.160 --> 1:43:23.479 Yeah. So then this was your first episode Abomination, and 1:43:23.520 --> 1:43:24.920 I know it was like a long time ago and 1:43:24.960 --> 1:43:27.040 you've done so much, but like, do you have memories 1:43:27.080 --> 1:43:30.080 of doing this very first episode? Like, you know, you 1:43:30.120 --> 1:43:33.360 show up on the scene, you immediately start sassing Novak 1:43:33.479 --> 1:43:35.559 and then you have like you have a you kind 1:43:35.560 --> 1:43:37.840 of you have a lot of court time in this. 1:43:38.439 --> 1:43:41.200 Like, who was the who was I defending? 1:43:41.560 --> 1:43:46.360 You were defending the father of the guy who this 1:43:46.479 --> 1:43:48.519 father saw his son having sex with a man and 1:43:48.560 --> 1:43:53.360 thought that the man was raping him, so he killed him. 1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:54.000 The legend. 1:43:55.479 --> 1:44:01.000 Wow, wow, that that blows my mind. Yeah I didn't. 1:44:01.040 --> 1:44:03.559 I didn't actually remember that, but I do remember now 1:44:03.560 --> 1:44:05.960 as you as you're saying, it's standing there, and it's 1:44:06.000 --> 1:44:09.120 another one of those moments, Oh my god, it's George Siegel. 1:44:09.479 --> 1:44:10.479 What am I doing here? 1:44:10.640 --> 1:44:10.880 Who? 1:44:11.200 --> 1:44:14.559 Yeah, I'm a little goofy kid from Chicago who read 1:44:14.720 --> 1:44:17.880 you grew up reading comic books, and now I'm here, you. 1:44:17.800 --> 1:44:21.519 Know, with George Siegel. And yeah, he couldn't have been sweeter, 1:44:21.680 --> 1:44:25.360 couldn't have been funnier and more gracious, you know. And 1:44:26.120 --> 1:44:30.400 it was one of those moments where and I'd experienced 1:44:30.400 --> 1:44:32.640 this a little on China Beach at that point. Oh no, no, no, 1:44:32.880 --> 1:44:36.280 Spin City, I'm getting my entire career mixed up. Of course, 1:44:36.280 --> 1:44:39.280 we you know, had big stars, and but he was. 1:44:39.560 --> 1:44:43.240 He's an actor. For me. There are wonderful movie stars 1:44:43.280 --> 1:44:47.000 and television stars, and there are really great actors, you know, 1:44:47.040 --> 1:44:49.800 who are also those things. And he was one of 1:44:49.800 --> 1:44:54.439 those you know yea to this. I love watching actors. 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:58.240 I will forget my own line sometimes in scenes with people. 1:44:58.680 --> 1:45:01.200 With Christine Baranski on the show I was recently on it. 1:45:01.680 --> 1:45:04.360 There's been times where I've just been like, boatman, it's 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.240 your line. Oh, you're so good. 1:45:08.520 --> 1:45:11.720 She I would be so distracted. She's just like in 1:45:11.760 --> 1:45:14.360 my top Like, I love her so much. I don't 1:45:14.400 --> 1:45:15.680 know how I could focus. 1:45:16.200 --> 1:45:19.599 Yeah, well, I'm gonna shift it into a full different thing. 1:45:19.600 --> 1:45:21.400 I don't know if you know this, but you're in 1:45:21.439 --> 1:45:27.760 two incest episodes. Yeah, you were in Families and Bombshell. 1:45:28.920 --> 1:45:31.760 The one was like Twins. It was Rose McGowan and 1:45:31.880 --> 1:45:33.479 the Hawkeye from Sons of Anarchy. 1:45:33.840 --> 1:45:33.960 Oh. 1:45:34.160 --> 1:45:36.759 Another one was like a young Man and Jane Seymour 1:45:36.880 --> 1:45:39.439 was in it. But I was just wondering when you 1:45:39.479 --> 1:45:41.600 read those episodes or you like, what like, do you 1:45:41.640 --> 1:45:44.080 remember reading for the first time some of the more 1:45:44.320 --> 1:45:47.320 kind of wild episodes of SVU and Yeah, I was 1:45:47.320 --> 1:45:49.320 just wondering if you read them, if you're ever like. 1:45:49.360 --> 1:45:55.040 Geez I am, I'm a writer as well. 1:45:55.160 --> 1:45:56.759 I love I write horror. 1:45:56.800 --> 1:46:00.200 I write sort of dark science fiction, so I'm a 1:46:00.200 --> 1:46:00.840 horror guy. 1:46:00.960 --> 1:46:02.240 I love horror. 1:46:02.640 --> 1:46:05.240 But I like monsters, I like frank I like Dracula, 1:46:05.320 --> 1:46:07.479 I like vampires, serial my. 1:46:07.479 --> 1:46:12.520 Husband all this stuff that you like, sexual sadists. 1:46:13.720 --> 1:46:16.880 It's it's it was a little too real, you know, 1:46:17.040 --> 1:46:20.360 for me at that time, and I frankly remember thinking, Oh, 1:46:20.360 --> 1:46:23.720 that show's never gonna last. Oh no way. Society is 1:46:23.760 --> 1:46:26.240 not ready to know that people do that stuff. I mean, 1:46:26.520 --> 1:46:30.120 And now, of course here we are in season eleven 1:46:30.200 --> 1:46:31.559 hundred or whatever, twenty four. 1:46:31.720 --> 1:46:32.400 Yeah. 1:46:32.520 --> 1:46:34.760 No, that's so funny because my husband is like you, 1:46:34.840 --> 1:46:37.760 he's a horror person, and he when he like over 1:46:38.040 --> 1:46:41.799 watches me see Ansvu, He's like, this is more horrific 1:46:41.840 --> 1:46:44.840 than anything I watch. He's like, how do you watch this? 1:46:44.920 --> 1:46:46.719 And I'm like, I don't know. How do you watch 1:46:46.760 --> 1:46:48.840 like a chainsaw guy kill a bunch of people? I 1:46:48.840 --> 1:46:51.519 don't know, Like, but you know, it's like, we have 1:46:51.640 --> 1:46:52.799 different versions of horror. 1:46:52.840 --> 1:46:55.240 I guess all of us. It's definitely true. 1:46:55.280 --> 1:46:59.120 And in those instances, you know that kind of horror 1:46:59.160 --> 1:47:01.400 is ridiculous a guy with a chainsaw, or it's a 1:47:01.479 --> 1:47:03.320 vampire or you know what I mean, there's some part 1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:05.759 of you that knows. And in my case, for instance, zombies. 1:47:05.800 --> 1:47:07.880 I love any of the Night of the Living Dead stuff, 1:47:07.880 --> 1:47:11.479 all of that stuff. This show, though, I literally remember, 1:47:11.560 --> 1:47:13.760 even before being on the show, watching the first few 1:47:13.760 --> 1:47:17.200 episodes and just being like, I can't believe this is 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:19.479 gonna they're letting this stuff on the air. I can't 1:47:19.479 --> 1:47:21.839 believe they're even talking about this subject. 1:47:21.960 --> 1:47:25.280 We but you touched on something that I actually wanted 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:27.160 to talk about about, like the difference between being a 1:47:27.160 --> 1:47:28.040 guest star and being. 1:47:27.880 --> 1:47:29.000 A regular on a show. 1:47:29.439 --> 1:47:32.000 Have you had any like guest star horror stories or 1:47:32.200 --> 1:47:34.400 from that, have you learned how to treat guest stars 1:47:34.479 --> 1:47:37.240 differently than maybe you would have and kind of whatever 1:47:37.280 --> 1:47:38.599 you want to talk about that subject. 1:47:38.680 --> 1:47:44.000 Uh, you know what, It's interesting there is a strange 1:47:44.200 --> 1:47:48.439 cast system. As you know, every I've been so fortunate 1:47:48.479 --> 1:47:52.519 every show that I've been a regular on, everybody's been great, 1:47:53.040 --> 1:47:58.479 and it's extended to it's sort of goodwill or now 1:47:58.640 --> 1:48:00.599 I guess they would call it sort of paying it forward. 1:48:00.640 --> 1:48:03.800 But yeah, you want to make the guest stars feel 1:48:03.840 --> 1:48:06.759 at home, because if you I mean all the actors 1:48:06.760 --> 1:48:09.000 that I respect, for instance, I mean all the guys 1:48:09.040 --> 1:48:11.320 I worked with on Spen City, we had all been 1:48:11.640 --> 1:48:14.599 Richard Kind and you know, all of us at Alan Ruck, 1:48:14.640 --> 1:48:17.479 and we had all been in enough jobs before that 1:48:17.520 --> 1:48:20.439 to have been in that position to be a guest star, 1:48:20.600 --> 1:48:24.040 you know what I mean. And so people literally, people 1:48:24.160 --> 1:48:28.280 like Jennifer Garner, you know, years later, would come up 1:48:28.320 --> 1:48:30.320 to you on the street and I just know this 1:48:30.360 --> 1:48:33.240 person is Jennifer Garner, for instance, and she'd say, well, 1:48:33.240 --> 1:48:35.639 I played the girlfriend of so and so in season three, 1:48:35.680 --> 1:48:37.320 and I'm like, oh my god, of course you did. 1:48:37.600 --> 1:48:40.719 Wow. You guys were so nice to me. You guys 1:48:40.720 --> 1:48:43.360 couldn't have been sweeter. I felt you made me feel comfortable. 1:48:44.120 --> 1:48:48.719 That hearing that always makes me feel great because it's how, yeah, 1:48:48.760 --> 1:48:50.840 it's how I would want to be treated. And the 1:48:50.880 --> 1:48:57.120 folks on SPU were always Chris Maloney immediately, because I 1:48:57.160 --> 1:48:58.639 was a little I was a little afraid of him 1:48:58.640 --> 1:49:00.360 before I met him. It was a little afraid of 1:49:00.360 --> 1:49:03.559 that guy he looks like, because he looked in his 1:49:03.640 --> 1:49:06.559 presentation and on the show, he looked like the kind 1:49:06.560 --> 1:49:09.120 of guy that used to chase me home from school 1:49:09.160 --> 1:49:11.040 and steal my lunch when I was a kid, back 1:49:11.080 --> 1:49:14.280 to Chicago, and I immediately saw him and the muscles 1:49:14.320 --> 1:49:18.160 and and and you know, he just he he. I 1:49:18.200 --> 1:49:20.479 think he had seen he liked me on Spin City, 1:49:20.560 --> 1:49:22.599 or maybe he was a China Beach fan, I don't remember, 1:49:22.600 --> 1:49:25.280 but whatever, the first time in that first episode I 1:49:25.280 --> 1:49:28.479 walked out, he couldn't have been funnier and greater, and 1:49:29.200 --> 1:49:33.960 Marishka was really really sweet, so and everyone else that 1:49:34.040 --> 1:49:36.360 I had. So it seems to be a thing, especially 1:49:36.520 --> 1:49:38.599 I think especially in New York, because there's just sort 1:49:38.640 --> 1:49:41.800 of a huge circulating round of people that you kind 1:49:41.800 --> 1:49:45.400 of worked with over and over again, different, you know. So, yeah, 1:49:45.439 --> 1:49:48.519 it's I think it's important to make the guests feel 1:49:48.640 --> 1:49:51.200 great because you're you're really coming into sort of a 1:49:51.240 --> 1:49:55.080 home environment, almost almost a family environment, where you know, 1:49:55.120 --> 1:49:57.960 everybody's got their little private jokes and bits and stuff 1:49:58.000 --> 1:50:01.360 and yeah, you know, so, yeah, it's I've been very 1:50:01.360 --> 1:50:05.160 fortunate in that way, and this show was absolutely the 1:50:05.200 --> 1:50:05.720 same thing. 1:50:06.360 --> 1:50:08.280 Well that's good because we hear Maloney can be a 1:50:08.320 --> 1:50:10.519 little stand offish, so I think maybe he liked you 1:50:10.560 --> 1:50:12.360 from stuff he'd seen you in, so you got the 1:50:12.400 --> 1:50:15.000 good treatment. Well, I was going to ask you before 1:50:15.000 --> 1:50:17.400 because you were talking about like being on these all 1:50:17.439 --> 1:50:19.400 these different sets for law and Order and stuff, but 1:50:19.479 --> 1:50:23.040 like you hadn't really been on you hadn't been on 1:50:23.080 --> 1:50:24.800 it for a while, and then now you're back on 1:50:25.160 --> 1:50:29.760 original recipe The Rebooths season twenty two. How does it 1:50:29.800 --> 1:50:31.880 feel any different? Because it's been like a little while 1:50:31.920 --> 1:50:36.240 since you've been in a courtroom as Dave sever It. 1:50:36.240 --> 1:50:41.639 Had been so long that I was surprised they wanted 1:50:41.680 --> 1:50:44.479 me to come back as the same character. I thought, maybe, oh, 1:50:44.840 --> 1:50:48.640 maybe it's a chance to kind of No. When I 1:50:48.720 --> 1:50:51.000 got there, they had I think it had been nine 1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:56.240 years or maybe more between my last appearance and this recent. 1:50:56.160 --> 1:50:59.479 He'sn't eleven is wet and bombshell. So yeah, ten years. 1:51:00.280 --> 1:51:04.040 Oh my god. They had all my old suits, which 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:05.639 was hilarious, and they really. 1:51:05.479 --> 1:51:07.439 Hope you haven't gained any weight at all. 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:11.599 Well yeah, unfortunately, Well some of them listen. 1:51:11.720 --> 1:51:14.479 I'm one of those people who my weight goes up 1:51:14.520 --> 1:51:19.760 and down depending on my mood. Yeah, and so, but 1:51:19.960 --> 1:51:23.160 now I couldn't fit anything. So I did a very 1:51:23.200 --> 1:51:27.040 extensive fitting, which is always encouraging for an actor because 1:51:27.040 --> 1:51:29.200 you go, oh, okay, maybe they'll have me back. 1:51:29.560 --> 1:51:32.280 Also, styles have changed in ten years. I can't just 1:51:32.320 --> 1:51:33.920 throw you back in those old suits come up. 1:51:33.920 --> 1:51:37.439 Oh absolutely as great as great and timeless as this 1:51:37.520 --> 1:51:40.519 show is and the Mothership, and yeah, you look at 1:51:40.520 --> 1:51:42.960 some of those old episodes, you know, Chris Chris Note 1:51:43.080 --> 1:51:46.439 in those suits, You're like, oh, wow, wow, that lapel 1:51:46.560 --> 1:51:49.880 is really and I'm not even a fashion guy, but yeah, yeah, yeah, 1:51:49.920 --> 1:51:52.960 it actually can get a little uncomfortable, like what is Wow, 1:51:53.120 --> 1:51:57.320 those are bad suits, I mean bad timing wise. 1:51:57.640 --> 1:51:59.880 Right, I'm sure they were top quality at the time 1:52:00.160 --> 1:52:00.559 for sure. 1:52:00.680 --> 1:52:05.240 Sure. Yeah, they do have good costume people. So I 1:52:05.240 --> 1:52:07.720 mean they just had you on season whatever it is, 1:52:07.760 --> 1:52:09.920 twenty two of Long Order, the reboot. I mean that 1:52:09.920 --> 1:52:12.559 that means to me that the SVU door is always open. 1:52:12.600 --> 1:52:13.880 They can have you back any day. 1:52:14.640 --> 1:52:18.040 Yeah, and I'm ready for it. There I am, baby, 1:52:18.200 --> 1:52:19.400 I am. I love it. 1:52:19.520 --> 1:52:22.960 And your character was never mean to the victims, because 1:52:22.960 --> 1:52:26.120 that's why like Barry Bosswick, you know, he's on the 1:52:26.240 --> 1:52:27.200 edge of likability. 1:52:27.560 --> 1:52:29.280 Unfortunately, Oliver Gates is. 1:52:30.720 --> 1:52:34.120 Not always that mind and some like bully these victims 1:52:34.160 --> 1:52:38.639 and you're got yeah, like the do you think, yeah 1:52:38.680 --> 1:52:41.720 Oliver Gates, Right, yeah, he's not one of he's not 1:52:41.800 --> 1:52:42.920 the worst, like he's. 1:52:42.840 --> 1:52:45.599 Got high I mean, I think people pay money for 1:52:45.600 --> 1:52:48.519 for Dave sever but people pay like huge bucks for 1:52:49.120 --> 1:52:53.480 Oliver Gates, and so he has like, yeah, he's unscrupulous, 1:52:53.520 --> 1:52:55.559 you know, he'll he'll just go after whoever. 1:52:56.280 --> 1:52:58.160 Do you watch a lot of stuff you're in. 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:06.360 No, not not typically, not that I I'm really critical 1:53:06.560 --> 1:53:08.840 of myself, but not in a bad way. I just go, ah, 1:53:08.880 --> 1:53:10.439 you could have done that better. All that worked out 1:53:10.439 --> 1:53:13.840 pretty well. I mean, so typically I don't watch if 1:53:13.880 --> 1:53:17.280 anyone's around when people are, you know, because it's you know, 1:53:17.520 --> 1:53:20.600 it's a different experience. I mean, I'm watching it for 1:53:21.160 --> 1:53:23.000 tips of how to do something better, you know what 1:53:23.000 --> 1:53:26.720 i mean, and they're watching it sort of like like 1:53:26.760 --> 1:53:28.080 I was with Barry Bostwick. 1:53:28.479 --> 1:53:31.719 It's very Bostwick and that's very Bostwick at the same time. 1:53:32.000 --> 1:53:35.280 Yeah, so yeah, I mean, but like I said, I 1:53:35.320 --> 1:53:39.360 haven't seen a lot of things, and even even my 1:53:39.680 --> 1:53:41.719 last show, The Good Fight, I just I didn't. 1:53:42.439 --> 1:53:44.639 It's not that, you know what it is. I'm also 1:53:47.000 --> 1:53:50.519 I I'm obsessed by YouTube. 1:53:51.360 --> 1:53:56.960 YouTube. YouTube blows. YouTube is Mankind's greatest invention. If I'm 1:53:56.960 --> 1:53:59.439 looking at a screen these days, I'm looking look at 1:53:59.479 --> 1:54:01.720 something on YouTube. I'm learning how to do something. And 1:54:02.760 --> 1:54:07.800 you know I'm a UFO person. I must Yes, I got. 1:54:07.320 --> 1:54:09.200 In UFO footage. That's where it is. 1:54:09.920 --> 1:54:12.320 Get that beautiful flying saucer footage. 1:54:12.400 --> 1:54:15.280 So no, I just today this morning, one of my kids, 1:54:15.320 --> 1:54:17.559 you're a dad. One of my kids locked the door 1:54:17.600 --> 1:54:19.360 to the bathroom and then shut it. So and I 1:54:19.400 --> 1:54:21.719 didn't know how to open it. And I youtubed a solution. 1:54:21.960 --> 1:54:24.599 Within two seconds, I had it back open. So something 1:54:24.800 --> 1:54:25.799 was really helpful. 1:54:26.360 --> 1:54:27.960 It really is, it really is. 1:54:28.080 --> 1:54:30.040 So I guess I say all that to say I 1:54:30.120 --> 1:54:35.440 don't watch a lot of scripted content. Uh, and I'm 1:54:35.440 --> 1:54:37.080 going to say something weird. Does anyone ever tell you 1:54:37.120 --> 1:54:38.880 that you you look like Sarah Steele? 1:54:39.400 --> 1:54:40.840 I wrote that on one of the questions I go, 1:54:40.960 --> 1:54:42.400 I get told I look like Sarah Steele? 1:54:42.400 --> 1:54:43.600 What do you feel since you. 1:54:43.560 --> 1:54:45.000 Were wait, who is that? 1:54:45.840 --> 1:54:49.280 She was the little girl in uh spanglish? But she 1:54:49.480 --> 1:54:51.560 was in the Good Fight. 1:54:51.960 --> 1:54:58.040 Yeah, she's a fantastic, fantastical Google you could be fan. 1:54:57.920 --> 1:55:01.520 Of her because she was an episod of girls and. 1:55:02.040 --> 1:55:03.560 To like this girl. 1:55:03.720 --> 1:55:07.600 Yeah, when when when you guys first popped on remember 1:55:07.600 --> 1:55:10.280 at the beginning of this in this meeting, when and 1:55:10.320 --> 1:55:12.040 I just heard your voices when you popped on. At 1:55:12.040 --> 1:55:14.680 first I thought I was being punked. I was like, Sarah, really, 1:55:15.720 --> 1:55:18.400 but yeah, you guys you you you you might have 1:55:18.560 --> 1:55:20.480 You're like a secret twin out there. 1:55:21.280 --> 1:55:21.480 Yeah. 1:55:22.000 --> 1:55:24.760 Yeah, I love her that when someone said that, because 1:55:24.760 --> 1:55:27.520 sometimes when people say you look clicks or whatever, you 1:55:27.600 --> 1:55:29.040 never know what's going to come out of their mouth. 1:55:29.080 --> 1:55:31.200 And when I heard that, I go love that. I'll 1:55:31.200 --> 1:55:32.560 take that, thank you very much. 1:55:32.920 --> 1:55:38.000 I've had as actually from SVU. Someone came up to 1:55:38.040 --> 1:55:40.240 me once and said, hey, you're the lawyer on SVU 1:55:40.320 --> 1:55:42.720 and I said, one of them Tuba get in June. 1:55:42.760 --> 1:55:50.120 You're right, No, no, uh, hey you're the lawyer from SVU. Yeah, 1:55:50.160 --> 1:55:52.800 I'm one of them for sure. Hoody from Hoody in 1:55:52.800 --> 1:55:56.560 the Blowfish, I love your music, man, I swear to god. 1:55:56.720 --> 1:56:00.160 People are wild. They think Hoody was in a. 1:55:59.720 --> 1:56:04.720 S v you God, Hey, you know, I don't know 1:56:04.720 --> 1:56:05.640 what to tell you. I've had people. 1:56:05.640 --> 1:56:07.960 I've had people come up to me and request a song. 1:56:08.480 --> 1:56:10.480 Come on, say just a little, one little, just a 1:56:10.520 --> 1:56:13.960 snatch of song for my daughter. Dude, I'm not I'm. 1:56:13.800 --> 1:56:16.240 Not that so funny, Oh my god. 1:56:17.280 --> 1:56:21.360 And that they have appeared on svu huh and. 1:56:21.320 --> 1:56:23.680 If it was the guy from Hoody and the Blowfish, like, 1:56:23.960 --> 1:56:25.800 why would you want to sing to you right now? 1:56:26.840 --> 1:56:27.240 Of course? 1:56:27.800 --> 1:56:29.720 Are you? Are you back in New York still? Do 1:56:29.720 --> 1:56:31.040 you still? Do you work out of New York? 1:56:31.680 --> 1:56:33.600 Oh? Yeah, yeah I live here. I live in New York. 1:56:33.880 --> 1:56:34.560 I love it. 1:56:35.720 --> 1:56:38.720 Yeah, guys, I would come back anytime. This has been 1:56:38.720 --> 1:56:39.280 so much fun. 1:56:39.400 --> 1:56:41.760 Yeah no, I feel like we had like twenty thousand 1:56:41.760 --> 1:56:46.240 more questions to ask you, but because yourself so many stories, No, 1:56:46.400 --> 1:56:47.680 this was incredible. 1:56:48.000 --> 1:56:48.840 Yeah, anytime. 1:56:49.040 --> 1:56:51.880 Look, you know I love doing I love I love 1:56:51.920 --> 1:56:53.840 the show, and I love doing this. 1:56:53.960 --> 1:56:56.400 So I'm thank you for inviting me. 1:56:56.840 --> 1:56:57.120 Yeah. 1:56:57.160 --> 1:56:59.920 Cool to see someone so talented and great just like 1:57:00.080 --> 1:57:01.880 work for so long and enjoy their work. 1:57:01.960 --> 1:57:03.520 So thank you so much for doing it. If you 1:57:03.560 --> 1:57:05.600 will have you back on with Diane, we'll do like 1:57:05.640 --> 1:57:07.400 a fireside chat all of us. 1:57:09.680 --> 1:57:12.200 Why. I would love that. I would love that. I 1:57:12.240 --> 1:57:13.080 love that woman. 1:57:14.000 --> 1:57:18.120 We will definitely tell Center your regards. Oh yeah, do 1:57:18.160 --> 1:57:20.240 you want to plug anything coming up? Or I don't 1:57:20.280 --> 1:57:22.240 know if that movie is like still under wraps, but 1:57:22.280 --> 1:57:24.560 do you have anything now that people should check out? 1:57:25.360 --> 1:57:28.600 I you know what I've got I've got a short 1:57:28.640 --> 1:57:30.960 story that I just that was just sold to it 1:57:31.040 --> 1:57:33.280 and I'm trying to sort of plug my writing work 1:57:33.280 --> 1:57:36.040 a lot these days because people are reading, but they're 1:57:36.080 --> 1:57:40.680 reading online. It's sort of Yeah, there's an anthology of 1:57:40.920 --> 1:57:46.760 short stories called Dominion Stories from the African Diaspora and 1:57:46.800 --> 1:57:50.360 it's science fiction, fantasy and horror stories from from African 1:57:50.360 --> 1:57:55.040 American and African and Afro Caribbean actors all over the world. 1:57:55.120 --> 1:57:58.000 And it's on Amazon. You can find It's a great book. 1:57:58.000 --> 1:58:01.240 It's been nominated for some you know, literary awards, and 1:58:01.280 --> 1:58:02.880 I have a short story there though. 1:58:02.880 --> 1:58:04.520 Oh cool, we'll put a link to it in our 1:58:04.520 --> 1:58:05.080 show notes. 1:58:05.080 --> 1:58:07.240 Also awesome, thank you very much. 1:58:07.360 --> 1:58:10.920 Yeah, my cousin writes a lot of shorts and horror 1:58:10.960 --> 1:58:13.400 shorts and stuff, and like, I know how hard that is, 1:58:13.440 --> 1:58:14.919 like getting that stuff published. 1:58:16.360 --> 1:58:18.080 I'm actually on my way to work on one now 1:58:18.120 --> 1:58:21.920 because I got invited to join another anthology of end 1:58:21.920 --> 1:58:22.800 of the World story. 1:58:22.960 --> 1:58:31.360 So you know, zombie's here Armageddon baby. Oh yeah, what 1:58:31.520 --> 1:58:34.360 a guy. He did that from a library. His power 1:58:34.400 --> 1:58:36.440 went out. I would have still was like, gotta do 1:58:36.520 --> 1:58:38.680 this podcast. We both would have canceled. I would have 1:58:38.680 --> 1:58:39.680 been like, I don't know what to tell you. My 1:58:39.760 --> 1:58:41.720 powers out, and he was like, I'll be at the 1:58:41.720 --> 1:58:44.920 public library talking about SVU. What a great guy. But 1:58:45.080 --> 1:58:47.800 I mean that's why he's had such an amazing career. 1:58:48.000 --> 1:58:49.920 I think he shows up. I don't think, you know. 1:58:50.040 --> 1:58:52.880 I think he shows up. He works hard, and he cares, 1:58:52.960 --> 1:58:54.760 you know, the opposite of Gerad. 1:58:55.280 --> 1:58:59.760 Yes, he shows up and he shows out. I mean 1:59:00.080 --> 1:59:05.160 his sassy confrontations with Casey Novak on her bike. I'll 1:59:05.160 --> 1:59:05.840 never forget it. 1:59:06.160 --> 1:59:08.520 Yeah, I just am obsessed with him. I'd like to 1:59:08.640 --> 1:59:10.800 be invited to Thanksgiving at the Boatman House. 1:59:10.800 --> 1:59:14.360 They really would. I think that's what I'd like to do. 1:59:14.800 --> 1:59:17.360 Lots of kids running around, That's not. 1:59:17.440 --> 1:59:21.560 Why, but I think it would be a good time. 1:59:23.600 --> 1:59:28.680 Well, this episode, obviously is It sucks that it's so old, 1:59:28.720 --> 1:59:30.240 and I feel like a lot of it still holds 1:59:30.320 --> 1:59:33.200 up today, with like people that still you know, Yeah, 1:59:33.240 --> 1:59:36.200 what is the rule? Gave funerals and stuff like that, 1:59:36.280 --> 1:59:37.280 what's the rule? 1:59:37.360 --> 1:59:40.560 Like it takes two generations to change anything or something? 1:59:41.320 --> 1:59:42.320 Yeah, I don't even know. 1:59:42.360 --> 1:59:45.640 I might have fully made that up, but it's wild 1:59:45.720 --> 1:59:48.640 that things are the same. I mean, same with the 1:59:48.680 --> 1:59:51.200 Nazi episodes in the early seasons, like we're true. No, 1:59:51.640 --> 1:59:55.440 we've digressed as a society. You like, I don't, I 1:59:55.480 --> 1:59:58.760 don't know what happened. We've truly went backwards. It used 1:59:58.800 --> 2:00:03.640 to be like chill, like now people like we might 2:00:03.680 --> 2:00:05.800 have talked about this, but now people get so mad 2:00:05.840 --> 2:00:08.280 at any black show and it's like no one would 2:00:08.320 --> 2:00:11.120 get mad at Fresh Prince. No one was like, oh 2:00:11.200 --> 2:00:14.040 whoa culture, Now we have Fresh Prince, Like that wasn't it, 2:00:14.120 --> 2:00:16.560 Like yeah, family matters. 2:00:16.960 --> 2:00:19.160 Yeah, Like there used to just be shows and. 2:00:19.120 --> 2:00:21.680 Everything, and now they're like fuck Abbot elementary or. 2:00:21.640 --> 2:00:26.640 What yeah, or Blackish Blackish black people. It got under 2:00:26.680 --> 2:00:30.080 people's skin, you know, or insecure, Like it's like oh great, 2:00:30.160 --> 2:00:34.080 all of that. It's like it's gone backwards and people 2:00:34.160 --> 2:00:39.120 are just so angry at nothing and are so regressive 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:43.640 and like, I don't know, I don't get it. I 2:00:43.760 --> 2:00:44.360 really don't. 2:00:44.440 --> 2:00:46.880 Yeah. I feel so sad for the main character Ian 2:00:47.000 --> 2:00:49.360 in this movie. I mean in this episode that you 2:00:49.600 --> 2:00:52.720 just like are struggling with your own identity and then 2:00:52.760 --> 2:00:55.200 your father has made it his life's work to prove 2:00:55.280 --> 2:00:58.120 that like you're a like you're an abomination and that 2:00:58.160 --> 2:01:00.320 you need to be like fixed. 2:01:00.160 --> 2:01:02.520 You know, and that the dead knute But thenk got 2:01:02.520 --> 2:01:06.720 he got one on his dad, like fuck his dad. Yeah, wait, abominating? 2:01:06.760 --> 2:01:11.240 Why is the abominable snowman? Is that because of abomination 2:01:11.440 --> 2:01:13.120 or those are just two separate words. 2:01:13.720 --> 2:01:18.280 I think abominable means Yeah, I don't know why that 2:01:18.360 --> 2:01:19.680 is in reference to a snowman. 2:01:21.240 --> 2:01:21.760 Yeah, I don't know. 2:01:21.840 --> 2:01:23.960 Casey is looking at Casey? Are you looking it up? 2:01:24.400 --> 2:01:27.000 But back to Globes Talk and another thing. And it's 2:01:27.040 --> 2:01:29.360 one of the top podcasts too, But like, I will 2:01:29.360 --> 2:01:31.560 never watch Yellowstone. 2:01:31.680 --> 2:01:34.480 What it's one of the top TV shows. You said podcasts? 2:01:34.520 --> 2:01:37.000 Well, yeah, though the podcast of the rewatch is number one. 2:01:37.000 --> 2:01:39.800 It's the number one show in the nation. Yeah, everyone's obsessed, 2:01:39.840 --> 2:01:42.160 Like the recap show is number one on all the 2:01:42.240 --> 2:01:45.320 charts imber speaking. 2:01:45.480 --> 2:01:49.000 Sorry my bad, No, that's crazy. I didn't know there 2:01:49.040 --> 2:01:52.160 was a Yellowstone podcast. What the fuck you know there is? 2:01:52.240 --> 2:01:56.920 There's a Yellowstone universe, yeah, like they're doing prequels and 2:01:56.960 --> 2:02:00.440 all this stuff. Oh yeah, because I I think an 2:02:00.640 --> 2:02:04.240 original Yellowstone takes place like now in Montana. I might 2:02:04.280 --> 2:02:06.680 be wrong, am I right? Casey? Do you know anyway? 2:02:07.200 --> 2:02:09.440 I think it just takes place like now in Montana, 2:02:09.520 --> 2:02:12.720 and then some of the spinoffs are like, Okay, this 2:02:12.800 --> 2:02:15.560 is twenty years earlier with the same family or whatever. 2:02:15.680 --> 2:02:19.160 You know, like because people are so into it, what 2:02:19.400 --> 2:02:21.240 is it? You know? I watched Big Sky for a 2:02:21.280 --> 2:02:23.360 long time and that took place in Montana, but that 2:02:23.440 --> 2:02:26.320 I don't fat at nighttime, so I'm not watching. 2:02:26.640 --> 2:02:27.640 I will not watch it. 2:02:27.760 --> 2:02:30.160 You're not wikipediaing, you're not finding out. 2:02:30.440 --> 2:02:32.960 There's like one girl I really follow on Instagram and 2:02:33.080 --> 2:02:35.200 she just got really into it and she's like, oh my, 2:02:35.320 --> 2:02:38.560 and I'm like, maybe I'll have that, like, but I don't. 2:02:38.840 --> 2:02:41.120 It feels so like something my parents would watch and 2:02:41.120 --> 2:02:44.240 that I would never watch. Yeah, I'm happy for Kevin Costner. 2:02:44.320 --> 2:02:46.960 I've always been a fan Our family Message in a Bottle. 2:02:47.000 --> 2:02:48.400 I remember watching that in the theater. 2:02:49.440 --> 2:02:52.640 Have you ever watched the movie with Kevin Kostner and 2:02:52.760 --> 2:02:56.920 Dane Cook called Mister Brooks. It's one of the worst 2:02:56.960 --> 2:03:00.280 movies I've ever seen in my entire life. Watched it 2:03:00.360 --> 2:03:03.040 and was Virginia and Jared's parents' basement, and we were 2:03:03.040 --> 2:03:06.080 both like, this movie is so bad because it was 2:03:06.120 --> 2:03:08.640 when people were like, yeah, Dane Cook's a movie star 2:03:08.760 --> 2:03:12.000 and you're like, I don't know, like and it does not. 2:03:12.720 --> 2:03:15.800 No, they really pushed him. He couldn't do movies. He 2:03:15.880 --> 2:03:18.080 got a couple and it didn't work. Your hair looks 2:03:18.080 --> 2:03:20.560 cute like that? Oh, thanks around. 2:03:20.880 --> 2:03:23.920 I never do that. It was my jam when I 2:03:24.000 --> 2:03:26.280 was like a kid, I would always tell my babysitters, 2:03:26.280 --> 2:03:27.920 can you put my hair some hair up, some hair down? 2:03:28.760 --> 2:03:29.280 It's cute. 2:03:29.280 --> 2:03:33.480 My babysitters brushed my hair too, so cute. 2:03:34.320 --> 2:03:34.560 Yeah. 2:03:34.960 --> 2:03:37.600 Yeah, I brushed Rosie's hair every morning and it's a nightmare. 2:03:38.520 --> 2:03:39.800 Well, but she has curly hair. 2:03:39.880 --> 2:03:43.360 Do you You're not supposed to brush curly hair without it, like, 2:03:43.440 --> 2:03:44.280 unless it's wet. 2:03:44.840 --> 2:03:47.160 Yeah, I wet it with like Leavin conditioner. 2:03:47.400 --> 2:03:50.600 Is it the bottles with an octopus on it? Is 2:03:50.600 --> 2:03:52.600 it like a no body wash? 2:03:52.760 --> 2:03:56.240 That's her body, that's her, that's her bubble, that's Osky shampoo. 2:03:56.560 --> 2:03:59.680 But no, Rosie, I got special curly hair shampoo. I'm 2:03:59.720 --> 2:04:02.600 starting or early. I'm like, you get different shampoo from 2:04:02.640 --> 2:04:04.800 Oscar like even though he's got curly hair too. But 2:04:04.840 --> 2:04:07.320 it's not quite the problem that rehearses yet. So they 2:04:07.320 --> 2:04:10.320 have kid curls yeah, and there's not a haircut in sight. 2:04:10.400 --> 2:04:12.640 By the way, she's not interested in a haircut at all. 2:04:12.680 --> 2:04:14.880 It's already like down her back. So I don't know 2:04:14.880 --> 2:04:16.320 if we're getting to but I don't know what we're 2:04:16.360 --> 2:04:16.680 gonna do. 2:04:17.240 --> 2:04:20.800 I watched a viral video of a dad taking his 2:04:20.920 --> 2:04:23.560 little son who had long hair, in for a haircut 2:04:23.600 --> 2:04:26.520 and then surprised the mom with the haircut, and the 2:04:26.560 --> 2:04:28.600 mom was like happy to see the kid. But I 2:04:28.640 --> 2:04:31.280 was like, that's like fucked up. I thought it was 2:04:31.320 --> 2:04:31.880 fucked up. 2:04:32.360 --> 2:04:35.840 Why to cut your kid's hair like the first haircut? Oh, 2:04:35.880 --> 2:04:39.600 without the mom? Yeah, that is weird. That is really weird. 2:04:40.080 --> 2:04:43.360 I just the Internet's ruined everything, Like I don't believe 2:04:43.360 --> 2:04:48.040 anything anymore. Like I watched a horrific video where the 2:04:48.160 --> 2:04:51.040 dad is on speakerphone talking to a kid, screaming at 2:04:51.080 --> 2:04:54.000 the kid, and the mom is just videotaping it, and 2:04:54.040 --> 2:04:57.200 it's the dad being pissed because the mom filed for 2:04:57.280 --> 2:04:59.800 child support, and the dad's telling the kid, well, then 2:04:59.840 --> 2:05:01.080 I'm picking you up anymore. 2:05:01.120 --> 2:05:01.520 Fuck that. 2:05:01.680 --> 2:05:02.360 Talk to your mom. 2:05:02.400 --> 2:05:04.920 If I'm paying child support, You're never gonna see me again, 2:05:05.360 --> 2:05:07.840 never again. I'm never picking you up. You're not coming here. 2:05:08.040 --> 2:05:10.000 She wants money, then that's what you get, and like 2:05:10.400 --> 2:05:13.680 screaming at this kid. The kid got on the internet, right, 2:05:13.800 --> 2:05:16.000 the kid is hysterically crying. I mean it's blurred to 2:05:16.120 --> 2:05:18.920 face and the mom is just taping it. Maybe it's 2:05:18.920 --> 2:05:21.280 for court, she's taping it. Yeah, why are you putting 2:05:21.280 --> 2:05:24.520 it online? Like yeah, what? But also that dad has 2:05:24.600 --> 2:05:29.000 damaged this child forever. I don't It's just like even 2:05:29.040 --> 2:05:33.440 doing nice deeds like the or people, not the pranks, 2:05:33.480 --> 2:05:35.360 like I'm going to college, and then it's like people's 2:05:35.400 --> 2:05:38.720 reactions to gifts, to everything, and it's like I love 2:05:38.760 --> 2:05:42.760 sweet things, and now I don't trust the authenticity of 2:05:42.800 --> 2:05:43.600 these videos. 2:05:44.000 --> 2:05:49.400 Yeah, oh well, I'll definitely be taking my children for 2:05:49.440 --> 2:05:51.400 their first haircup, but I'm gonna leave Oscars for a 2:05:51.440 --> 2:05:53.680 long time. Jared's against having him have long hair, and 2:05:53.720 --> 2:05:56.920 I'm like, why is he against it? I don't know. 2:05:57.000 --> 2:05:58.480 He's like, I don't know if I really want him 2:05:58.520 --> 2:06:00.280 to like go super long, and I go, we're not 2:06:00.320 --> 2:06:02.680 cutting his hair until he's at least three, so get 2:06:02.720 --> 2:06:03.520 on board. 2:06:03.800 --> 2:06:06.400 Like yeah, it's cute and. 2:06:06.440 --> 2:06:08.640 He has like curly hair already, and I just can't 2:06:08.680 --> 2:06:10.160 wait to see what happens if it turns into like 2:06:10.200 --> 2:06:12.040 a big puffball, Like I can't wait to see it. 2:06:12.200 --> 2:06:13.120 He might have a jo fro. 2:06:13.720 --> 2:06:17.400 Yeah, I'm excited. And it's blonde. How weird, how weird. 2:06:17.800 --> 2:06:18.879 It's gonna look crazy. 2:06:19.080 --> 2:06:21.960 I'm really excited. Okay, we can't keep talking about this. 2:06:22.080 --> 2:06:24.840 I did get really sad with the child supports stuff, but. 2:06:25.520 --> 2:06:27.840 Well, this actually kind of goes into our what would 2:06:27.880 --> 2:06:29.360 sister pow go right into it? 2:06:29.480 --> 2:06:30.080 My big thing. 2:06:30.160 --> 2:06:33.840 I just want to say, like, yeah, I don't have 2:06:33.960 --> 2:06:34.680 kids if you don't. 2:06:34.520 --> 2:06:36.000 Want to take care of them, Like, don't. 2:06:36.160 --> 2:06:38.760 I don't know how that's such a hard concept for people, 2:06:38.880 --> 2:06:42.080 Like just don't do it. I don't, it's so easy 2:06:42.120 --> 2:06:44.480 not to do it. I don't understand why you would 2:06:44.480 --> 2:06:45.560 ever do. 2:06:45.440 --> 2:06:48.960 That if you didn't want to do it, right, that 2:06:49.040 --> 2:06:53.320 kid is fucked forever. What a sad sad I would 2:06:53.360 --> 2:06:54.720 never let that see the light of day on the 2:06:54.760 --> 2:06:56.880 internet if I had to get it for court or something. 2:06:56.960 --> 2:06:59.400 I get that, but like, yeah, that would not see 2:06:59.400 --> 2:07:01.280 the light of day. Like you think it's a punishment 2:07:01.360 --> 2:07:03.960 to pay for your kid to do what is happening? 2:07:04.120 --> 2:07:04.560 I don't know. 2:07:04.680 --> 2:07:06.800 Yeah, get your kid to eat. It's not even for 2:07:06.840 --> 2:07:08.920 your kid to like do activity, it's like for your 2:07:08.960 --> 2:07:12.040 kid to eat and have clothes. Anyway, this week's what 2:07:12.160 --> 2:07:14.680 was Sister peg Dow? Yeah, this is the week are 2:07:14.720 --> 2:07:16.320 what was Sister peg Dow? Which you know is our 2:07:16.320 --> 2:07:19.440 weekly segment where we point you to an article, organization, 2:07:19.560 --> 2:07:23.600 maybe another podcast episode, something to help you, you know, 2:07:23.920 --> 2:07:26.280 kind of inform what we talked about on today's episode. 2:07:26.280 --> 2:07:29.360 And obviously today we saw like horrendous behavior of a 2:07:29.480 --> 2:07:33.120 parent handling their child coming out and being gay, and 2:07:33.200 --> 2:07:36.000 so I wanted to point you towards p Flag, which 2:07:36.080 --> 2:07:41.560 is you know, a longstanding uh organization. It's the first 2:07:41.600 --> 2:07:45.360 and largest organization dedicated to supporting, educated, and advocating for 2:07:45.760 --> 2:07:49.440 LGBTQ plus people and their families. So it's a I 2:07:49.480 --> 2:07:53.160 have first heard of p Flag referenced in Reality Bites 2:07:53.240 --> 2:07:55.360 the movie, So it's been around for a long time 2:07:55.440 --> 2:07:59.960 and their mission is to create a caring, justin a 2:08:00.080 --> 2:08:03.240 firming world for LGBTQ plus people and those who love them. So, 2:08:03.800 --> 2:08:05.600 if you know someone who has a kid who might 2:08:05.640 --> 2:08:07.760 be gay, or someone whose kid has just come out 2:08:07.800 --> 2:08:10.320 to them and maybe they need an organization where they 2:08:10.360 --> 2:08:12.040 need more resources because I'm sure a lot of people 2:08:12.040 --> 2:08:14.400 are like, Okay, what can I do to help my kid? 2:08:14.440 --> 2:08:17.160 Now that they've told me this pflag dot org. They 2:08:17.200 --> 2:08:19.600 have a lot of information and as always that will 2:08:19.600 --> 2:08:22.720 be storied the day the episode comes out wide and 2:08:23.080 --> 2:08:25.400 always we save our what would sister peg dos on 2:08:26.040 --> 2:08:29.080 a highlight on our Instagram called WWSPD Thank you so 2:08:29.160 --> 2:08:32.680 much for that. Kara and Casey just wrote us Yellowstone 2:08:32.720 --> 2:08:36.760 is in Wyoming and I'm a little bit Montana, so whatever, 2:08:36.800 --> 2:08:37.320 they're the same. 2:08:37.360 --> 2:08:37.960 It's a mountains. 2:08:38.000 --> 2:08:40.080 Oh okay, okay, so I wasn't totally crazy. 2:08:40.520 --> 2:08:43.800 And then abominable is the adjective version of abomination. 2:08:44.240 --> 2:08:45.800 Wow, but how. 2:08:45.640 --> 2:08:49.200 I guess it's abominable because it's so huge that it's like, again, 2:08:49.320 --> 2:08:51.920 it's not the same size as a normal snowman. You know, 2:08:52.120 --> 2:08:57.760 it's abominable, Like, oh, abomination means huge. No, abomination means 2:08:57.800 --> 2:09:00.320 you're like against the norm or you're you're out of 2:09:00.360 --> 2:09:00.800 the norm. 2:09:01.120 --> 2:09:03.640 Oh yeah, you know he lives in a cave. Yeah yeah. 2:09:04.240 --> 2:09:10.200 Abominable is like causing moral revulsion. Yeah, it's like causing discuss, 2:09:10.240 --> 2:09:14.040 causing discuss. It's not necessarily size, but it's like causing 2:09:14.080 --> 2:09:15.400 fear and unpleasant Wow. 2:09:15.400 --> 2:09:17.640 Okay, see first time speaking on the pod. 2:09:17.960 --> 2:09:20.640 So that's why he's abominable because he causes revulsion because 2:09:20.640 --> 2:09:24.040 he's so huge with his big snowman claws and everything. Yeah. 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:25.480 But in the movie Monsters, Inc. 2:09:25.560 --> 2:09:30.040 He's cute, you know, So I forgot that he's supposed 2:09:30.040 --> 2:09:32.440 to be a bad guy. Like all of my references, 2:09:32.480 --> 2:09:35.720 he's a cutie. He's a cutie trying to chill out. 2:09:35.840 --> 2:09:39.720 I remember it from like a clay Nation stop motion 2:09:39.880 --> 2:09:40.480 Christmas thing. 2:09:40.520 --> 2:09:42.800 Yeah, but he also wasn't that evil in that right? 2:09:43.560 --> 2:09:44.600 Like he has a big part. 2:09:45.040 --> 2:09:48.120 Yeah, probably so does the Grinch, you know, everybody in 2:09:48.160 --> 2:09:48.800 the end. 2:09:50.040 --> 2:09:55.080 Next week obviously another episode will Never Stop. Real Fake News, 2:09:55.120 --> 2:10:00.320 Season eighteen, Episode seventeen, Join us and and you know 2:10:00.920 --> 2:10:02.120 peacock Hulu. 2:10:02.920 --> 2:10:03.280 That's it. 2:10:03.320 --> 2:10:06.960 I don't know the six internationals. We're obsessed with all 2:10:07.000 --> 2:10:09.280 of you. We're so lucky we get to do this. 2:10:09.880 --> 2:10:12.720 And I hope your January has been going good and 2:10:12.760 --> 2:10:14.720 you haven't put too much pressure on yourselves. 2:10:14.880 --> 2:10:17.200 Yeah, because you know what, we've decided that February is 2:10:17.200 --> 2:10:19.720 the new January. So if this month sucked, fucking throw 2:10:19.760 --> 2:10:22.520 it away, because February is where we start over. See 2:10:22.560 --> 2:10:23.120 you next week. 2:10:33.840 --> 2:10:36.040 That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production. 2:10:36.480 --> 2:10:38.600 If you have compliments you'd like to give us or 2:10:38.680 --> 2:10:40.920 episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email 2:10:40.920 --> 2:10:43.640 it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. 2:10:43.920 --> 2:10:47.080 Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod 2:10:47.320 --> 2:10:50.200 and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us 2:10:50.240 --> 2:10:52.080 personally at Kara Klank and. 2:10:52.240 --> 2:10:53.280 At glitter Cheese. 2:10:53.640 --> 2:10:56.320 As always, please see our show notes for sources and 2:10:56.360 --> 2:10:59.680 more information. Thank you so much to our producer Casey 2:10:59.720 --> 2:11:02.640 O Brah and to our mixer John Bradley and our 2:11:02.680 --> 2:11:06.040 guest booker Patrick Cottner, and to Henry Kaperski for our 2:11:06.080 --> 2:11:09.360 theme song, and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank 2:11:09.440 --> 2:11:13.720 you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, 2:11:13.760 --> 2:11:17.960 and everybody at Exactly Right Media. Dun Dun