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Speaker 1: Raffie is the voice of some of the happiest songs

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Speaker 1: of our generation. Baby So who is the man behind

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Speaker 1: Baby Beluga? Every human being wants to feel respected. When

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Speaker 1: we start with young, all good things can grow from there.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chris Garcia, comedian, new Dad and host of Finding Raffie,

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Speaker 1: a new podcast from My Heart Radio and Fatherly. Listen

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Speaker 1: every Tuesday on the I Heart Radio app or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Executive producer Paris Hilton brings back

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Speaker 1: the hit podcast How Men Think, and that's good news

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Speaker 1: for anyone that is confused by men, which is basically everyone.

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Speaker 1: It's real talk, straight from the source. How Men Think

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Speaker 1: podcast is exactly what we need to figure them out.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be fun and formative and probably a

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Speaker 1: bit scary at times because we're literally going inside the

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Speaker 1: minds of men. Listen to How Men Think on the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. The Gangster Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation

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Speaker 1: that revolves around the underworld and criminals and entertainers to victims,

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Speaker 1: crime and law enforcement. We cover all facets of the game.

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Speaker 1: Gangster Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify promotilstit activities. We just discussed

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Speaker 1: the ramifications and repercussions of these activities because after all,

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Speaker 1: she played gamester games. You are ultimately rewarded with gangster prizes.

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Speaker 1: Our Heart Radios number one for podcasts, but don't take

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Speaker 1: our award for it. Find Against the Chronicles podcast and

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Speaker 1: my Heart Radio app or wherever you get your podcast. Well,

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Speaker 1: come to spookke You Week, a week where we are

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Speaker 1: not really any spooky or honestly than the average things happening,

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Speaker 1: because everything happening is is terrifying and like ghosts and

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Speaker 1: Google's are are a lot more fun. Anyway, what are

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Speaker 1: you hang up in this podcast? Don't listen? Go watch

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Speaker 1: Herbert West Reanimator have some fun um. But if you

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Speaker 1: decide to keep listening to podcasts for some reason, we

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Speaker 1: have a bunch of spooky content for you this week.

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Speaker 1: How was that? How was that introduction? Sophie? Oh bad? Right?

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Speaker 1: Get going? Do your think? Yeah? My my thing? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're doing We're doing spooky Spooky Week, which is very

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Speaker 1: excited about. But yeah, every everyone I've told about Spooky

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Speaker 1: Week they're like, oh, so it's just a regular week

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Speaker 1: for for the show, Like, yeah, pretty much it's more fun,

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Speaker 1: but it is in a few ways. It is actually

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Speaker 1: gonna be more fun because this the spooky spooky mind

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Speaker 1: goddamn bit. Yeah, spookoky mind bedding kails actually do have

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Speaker 1: do have some more fun than just the solely depressing ones.

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Speaker 1: I mean, was this was the first theme week that

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Speaker 1: we all agreed upon. This the first like, can we

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Speaker 1: do something around spooky nous near Halloween? And everybody youtly

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Speaker 1: said yes, yes, this is the first theme week. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have we we have. We have been promising Nut

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Speaker 1: Week coming up. Eventually we're going to tease about things

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Speaker 1: that made us nut or where we talk about the

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Speaker 1: legumes mostly legumes. Okay, that's fair, Um, but anyway we

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Speaker 1: should we should have start off our first, our first

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Speaker 1: spooky tale. Um, so I'm going I'm going to tell

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Speaker 1: a very very spooky tale of a of an entire

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Speaker 1: French town going going mad over the course of a

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Speaker 1: single week. Hell yeah, probably probably with the help of

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Speaker 1: psychoactive drugs and a certain three letter agency. You know what,

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to get to do. Garrison, somebody,

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Speaker 1: you can't be racist against the French. They're like the

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Speaker 1: British or Americans. I didn't get a new messages saying

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Speaker 1: that your French accent was very racist to the French.

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Speaker 1: There is a certain number. It's like the Germans. There's

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Speaker 1: a certain number of genocides after which people get to

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Speaker 1: make fun of your country and it's not racist. And

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Speaker 1: that number is, let's say three. Honestly, the worst part

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Speaker 1: of this story is that we're probably doing critical support

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Speaker 1: for France. I mean in a way. Well, honestly, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna be kind of more critical support to the CIA

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Speaker 1: by the end of this one. Um. Yeah, that's that

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Speaker 1: is the most critical support can be. So anyway, our

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Speaker 1: very spooky tale begins in nine in a small, charming

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Speaker 1: French village called Pont Saint a Spray, which is how

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say that. Yeah, there you go. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: not much happened in this little, picturesque, little little town

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Speaker 1: on the south side of France. You know. Uh. On

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Speaker 1: the day we start, it's just like a regular summer day.

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Speaker 1: People are going about their routine, going to their jobs,

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Speaker 1: kids are playing in the street, enjoying some delicious freshly

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Speaker 1: baked bread. Um. But suddenly strange things begin happening. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna start off with some of the more mild,

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Speaker 1: mild mild effects here. So on in August fifteen, first dozens,

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Speaker 1: then hundreds of people began first just complaining of nauseau,

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Speaker 1: you know, and some people with some like stomach and

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Speaker 1: abdominable pain. They're coming up less often, less often noted,

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Speaker 1: there was a few instances like vomiting and diarrhea. Um.

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Speaker 1: Only about thirty percent of people had diarrhea. That is

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Speaker 1: that is a weirder, weirder thing. Yeah, that is on

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Speaker 1: like a town wide basis three significant sorry, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a significant strain on the sewage of the people affected.

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Speaker 1: It's just going to be like a few hundred versus

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Speaker 1: I was taking drugs with a group of friends. The

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Speaker 1: third of them had diarrhea. I would say, we might

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Speaker 1: need to go to a hospital. We have taken some

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Speaker 1: of that. Perhaps what we got was tainted. There is

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Speaker 1: there is Yeah, well, well we're talking about what actually

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Speaker 1: what the actual drugs being used here are going to be,

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Speaker 1: but something where that's not an uncommon side effect. But yeah, yeah, first,

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Speaker 1: first nausea, a little a little bit of vomiting, stomach pains, cramping, um.

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Speaker 1: Hospitals began reporting people experiencing alternating warm and cold waves

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Speaker 1: over there in body. Uh. The British Medical Journal recalls

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Speaker 1: abundant sweating and a disagreeable odor, which I'm guessing the

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Speaker 1: odor is just because there's all those sweating people in

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Speaker 1: the same cramped hospital room in the summer, in the

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Speaker 1: summer heat. Yeah, so anyway in their fringe, so a

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Speaker 1: lot of scargo sweats. I don't want to get more

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Speaker 1: messages like that. I have to stop to do it more.

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Speaker 1: By the way, do we know that the diarrhea was

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Speaker 1: the result of whatever substance or maybe it's just the

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Speaker 1: wine ships Again, we don't we there's no way to tell.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, patients began complaining about weird pains and pressure

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Speaker 1: around their neck, which yeah, um. And one of the

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Speaker 1: one of the most reported symptoms was insomnia, in some

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Speaker 1: cases lasting several days. Uh. Quoting the British Medical Journal,

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Speaker 1: the first symptoms appeared after a latent period of six

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Speaker 1: to forty eight hours. The digestive disorders quickly became worse,

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Speaker 1: with burning sensations through the entire digestive tract. Some experienced

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Speaker 1: sensations of burning at the anus, a state of giddiness persisted.

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Speaker 1: I mean, who's not giddy when your anus is burning?

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Speaker 1: Am I? Right? I do like like this is like

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Speaker 1: this is like the like the clear side that there's

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Speaker 1: like some some psychoactive job going on because like your

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Speaker 1: anus is burning and yet your very born. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like that sign from that what is that from a

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Speaker 1: rejected by what? What? What's the cartoonist? Like myanus is bleeding,

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Speaker 1: but like you're down, you know, you're down for it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're John Millenney impression. No no, no, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a John Lillinny impression. So that's just your poison, the

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Speaker 1: millennial brain. Don Hertzfeld. Yeah, great artist, Yeah, great artist.

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Speaker 1: So these pale and limp patients, still quoting the British

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Speaker 1: Medical Journal, these pale and limp patients showed inconspicuous trembling

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Speaker 1: of the extremities, and they complained of disorders of the

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Speaker 1: visual accommodation and especially being unable to read. So this

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Speaker 1: this is this is the more mild. This could be

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Speaker 1: a long one there. So this is for many people affected,

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Speaker 1: this is where the symptoms stopped. After suffering for insomnia

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Speaker 1: for a while with you know, mild disorders of the

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Speaker 1: visual accommodation UM, and you know, and the stomach pains

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Speaker 1: and like weird like neck things. After they were able

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Speaker 1: to sleep. That was the sign of their recovery. Is

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Speaker 1: like the ability to sleep again, Afric the insomnia war off,

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Speaker 1: but in a in around fifty of the cases reported,

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Speaker 1: the effects were much more intense. Um. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: continue from the from the medical journal first and then

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Speaker 1: get into some of the more colorful reporting around the incident. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Quoting the Medical journal again, Vivid visual hallucinations appeared, in

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Speaker 1: particular themes of visions of animals and of flames. All

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Speaker 1: of these visions were fleeting invariable in many of the patients.

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Speaker 1: They were followed by dreamy delirium. Yeah, that's that's about right.

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Speaker 1: That's actually pretty good description of like l s A LSD.

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Speaker 1: Those kind of like the movies always get it wrong

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Speaker 1: because you're not usually not like you're not seeing some

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Speaker 1: sort of like visual like cartoon world. It's it's these

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Speaker 1: kind of like fleeting impressions of visions and things in

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Speaker 1: the corner of your eyes. Yeah, it's a pretty good

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Speaker 1: especially on lower like it is unclear what exactly they

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Speaker 1: were on because then they definitely can be the more

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Speaker 1: cartoon lag. I mean, you can get full open eyed hallucination,

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Speaker 1: like especially the shogun chemicals will do that, but I

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Speaker 1: don't get it so much with like LSD L s

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Speaker 1: A L s A. If you want to shoot yourself

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Speaker 1: that is that is some Hawaiian baby wood row seats

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Speaker 1: from home depot and have yourself a horrible right. So

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Speaker 1: the delirium seems to be systematized with animal hallucinations and

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Speaker 1: self accusation. It's weird, weird terms from them from self accusations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I think I think they're trying to get at

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Speaker 1: ego death, but they don't have terms for it yet,

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Speaker 1: either that or that like sometimes you're hallucinating it like

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Speaker 1: overcomingly guilt like oh I did this terrible thing or yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody's angry at me or whatever like can continuing from

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Speaker 1: the Medical Journal self accusation and and it was sometimes

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Speaker 1: mystical or macabre in some cases terrifying visions were followed

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Speaker 1: by fugus, which is an old um for like fugues.

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Speaker 1: It says, it says fugues. Yeah, it's it's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's like it's like extreme. It's extreme dissociation. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of a little bit. Yeah and two and

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Speaker 1: two patients threw themselves out the window. Um. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: delirium was of a confusal kind, which could be interpreted

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Speaker 1: for some moments by a strong stimulation. Every attempt at

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Speaker 1: restraint increased the agitation. Well, yeah, that's it restraining. I've

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Speaker 1: had to restrain a number of people and it does

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Speaker 1: not calm anyone down, especially especially when you're tripping hard. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This sounds like a real, real bad time. Not the

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Speaker 1: thing to do. In severe cases, muscular spasms appeared. The

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Speaker 1: duration of these periods of delirium was varied. They lasted

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Speaker 1: several hours, several hours and some patients and in others

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Speaker 1: they persisted overnight. So that and then here it's it's

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get a little bit darker and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have more fun. Um. We observed four fatal cases,

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Speaker 1: three men and one woman. Three of these people were

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Speaker 1: old and in bad health. One of the men was

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Speaker 1: only twenty five years old and had been in good

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Speaker 1: health previously. They died in a muscular spasm in a

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Speaker 1: state of cardiovascular collapse. I think this is probably mostly

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Speaker 1: due to how the doctors were handling these patients. I mean,

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Speaker 1: obviously your your blood pressure wanto can elevate when you're hallucinating.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it also has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with the way they were being handled. Yeah, you're right. Um,

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Speaker 1: the disorder has developed more quickly in children, but also

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Speaker 1: left them more quickly. An interesting feature some of the

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Speaker 1: cases was that the delirium it was the first sign

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Speaker 1: to be noted. So it depends people come up came

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Speaker 1: up on different ways, right, Some some of them first

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Speaker 1: had weird body feelings, some of them first started just

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Speaker 1: seeing stuff. Um. One other interesting tidbit that we're not

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Speaker 1: going to spend much time talking about, but like around

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Speaker 1: two weeks after this initial incident, some symptoms started to reappear,

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Speaker 1: either through like a secondary poison egg or it was

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Speaker 1: like some kind of like acid flashback. Yeah it must,

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Speaker 1: it must, because I've done a buckload of acid. I've

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Speaker 1: never had a flashback. Um I did at one point.

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Speaker 1: I mean I have like done some damage and so

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Speaker 1: I have permanent tracers. But it's not like my guess

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Speaker 1: is they got I think the idea that there are

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Speaker 1: like acid flashbacks that are vivid hallucinations has been pretty

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Speaker 1: heavily debunked. My guesses they got redosed. Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I might fight you good. It's like it could be

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Speaker 1: that it was traumatic enough that like they're having they're

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Speaker 1: dealing with PTSD and kind of that's what's happening. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, And I think I definitely have seen

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Speaker 1: enough reports that would see acid flashbacks definitely actually being

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Speaker 1: a thing in some cases, especially in the early days

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Speaker 1: of studying these types of drugs and like the sixties,

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Speaker 1: like the CIA reported a lot of stuff around acid

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Speaker 1: flashbacks around the people that we tortured. But I guess

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Speaker 1: it's it's tied to torture. That could just be PTSD.

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Speaker 1: Stuff could be PTSD. It's also I mean, one thing

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Speaker 1: you have to know, and I don't know what kind

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Speaker 1: of dose these people were getting with the CIA, with

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Speaker 1: dose people, they were sometimes of people doses people do

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Speaker 1: not take, like you do not take that much, like

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Speaker 1: hundreds or thousands or millions of yeah, ridiculous irresponsible doses. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So now now we're going to get to some of

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Speaker 1: the some of the more fun descriptions here, which we

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Speaker 1: can actually kind of like based on our experiences can

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Speaker 1: actually kind of see like what was actually going on

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Speaker 1: in these people's heads. Um, So basically we had at

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Speaker 1: least dozens and dozens of people tripping very very hard. Um.

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Speaker 1: The local postman was doing his rounds on his bicycle

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Speaker 1: when he was suddenly overwhelmed by nausea and wild hallucinations.

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Speaker 1: Quoting him, it was terrible. I had the sense, I

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Speaker 1: had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire

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Speaker 1: and the serpents coiling around by arms. Yeah, that guy

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Speaker 1: had some other stuff going on. Yeah, because the very

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Speaker 1: first acid trip was on a bicycle when Heinrich Kaufman

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Speaker 1: like made it, dosed himself. He started coming up I

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Speaker 1: believe it was in Amsterdam, like riding his bicycle, which

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Speaker 1: is like, well, this is lovely. Yeah, I've made something cool.

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Speaker 1: Why is the postman riding a bicycle to deliver packages?

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Speaker 1: And because it's fifties, it's not there to France. I

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Speaker 1: mean that's I'm sorry post So Yeah, the mailman fell

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Speaker 1: off his bike and was taken to the taking into

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Speaker 1: a hospital in a nearby town. He was putting a

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Speaker 1: straight jacket and he shared a room with three teenagers

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Speaker 1: who were also tripping and the teenagers would change to

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Speaker 1: their beds to keep them under control. Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: how it sounds horrible. Flashbacks to this, to being chained

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Speaker 1: to a bed tripping, Yeah, that's bad. Some of my

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Speaker 1: friends trying to get out the window. They were thrashing

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Speaker 1: wildly screaming, and the sound of the metal beds and

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Speaker 1: jumping up and down, the noise was terrible. I would

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Speaker 1: prefer I would prefer to die then go through that again,

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Speaker 1: which you know, totally terrible. This sounds like like the

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Speaker 1: worst acid trip you could go. That sounds like about

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Speaker 1: the worst way you could have a trip go. It

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Speaker 1: sounds awful. So back in the French town, a little

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Speaker 1: girl screamed as she was being chased by man eating tigers.

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Speaker 1: A woman sobbed about how her children had been grounded

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Speaker 1: into sausages. Oh great, and specific a large men founded

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Speaker 1: off terrific beasts by smashing its furniture and using the

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Speaker 1: wood as weapons. Good for you, buddy, Good for you.

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Speaker 1: Husband and wife right around chasing each other with knives. Again,

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Speaker 1: probably something else going on there. My guesses we're not

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Speaker 1: just talking the acid and that, because I have again

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Speaker 1: been on acid a lot around knives and other weapons.

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Speaker 1: I have never chasing someone. I've never chased someone around

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Speaker 1: with knives like a couple who was on the verge

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Speaker 1: of a knife chick. I think I think the important

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Speaker 1: part here is that like in this French town, like

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Speaker 1: acid wasn't a thing yet, Like like like lucinogenic drugs

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Speaker 1: weren't a thing right, even like even like mushrooms weren't

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Speaker 1: popular around this time, no one knew what what the

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Speaker 1: hell was going on. Like they just think that they're

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Speaker 1: just basically losing their minds, like they're like there's there's

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Speaker 1: no other explanation for what's happening to them. And let's

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Speaker 1: just say that the most shocking thing that has come

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Speaker 1: out so far as that when Robert was on acid,

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Speaker 1: he wasn't chasing people with knives. That seems like it's honest,

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Speaker 1: Like depending on your acid trip, you wouldn't want to

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Speaker 1: chase some with a knife, Like it's not that's not

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Speaker 1: the kind of we would we would like during this

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Speaker 1: we would we would take a bunch of drugs and

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Speaker 1: grab my a K forty seven and hike out into

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Speaker 1: the woods and we would shoot down a fir tree

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Speaker 1: and we would drag it back to a clearing and

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Speaker 1: we would bury it standing up, and we would drape

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Speaker 1: it in pig and testines and put a pig's heart

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Speaker 1: on it, and when we cover it in gasoline and

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Speaker 1: light it with firecrackers and dance around it like the

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Speaker 1: pagans of old. But there was nothing aggressive about no.

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Speaker 1: You you you very rarely would want to hurt somebody

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Speaker 1: on acid. And my experience like you generally a generally

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Speaker 1: are at least like way more compassionate in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways. Um. But if you have no idea what

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Speaker 1: acid is and you're just you're in the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 1: and you're losing your mind and you're seeing weird things that, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can see how this would maybe cause some other

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Speaker 1: types of behavior you just think that is angry at you,

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Speaker 1: like like like it's like they're not they're not dosing

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Speaker 1: themselves either, like they're being dosed right like they don't.

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Speaker 1: It's very different where like you're deciding to go with

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Speaker 1: a trip versus this is happening to you, and you

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Speaker 1: have great decision. I think for basically anyone in this position,

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Speaker 1: the logical assumption would be, oh, the devil has taken

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Speaker 1: over our town and our minds have we have been

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Speaker 1: infested with demons? Like that's what else are you going

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Speaker 1: to assume? You're not gonna be like, oh, this drug

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Speaker 1: that's just barely been invented and that nobody really knows

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Speaker 1: about yet except for weird nerds. It must be some

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00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: version of that that I've taken accidentally. No, you're going

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Speaker 1: to your blood. So one interesting time. But before we

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Speaker 1: before we go and break um, even some of the

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Speaker 1: local animals had been affected by whatever poison the town. Um.

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Speaker 1: There there was there was one dog in particular that

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Speaker 1: kept chewing on rocks until its teeth chipped away. I

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00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 1: don't like this. And and ducks were behaving very odd. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's described they were. They were walking around erect and upright,

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Speaker 1: like penguins in a line, and they're just like weird,

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Speaker 1: weird behavior from ducks. Kind of thing I've heard so

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Speaker 1: far that kind of makes me want to dose our

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Speaker 1: ducks scared. We are not We're not wasting acid on

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Speaker 1: the ducks. I mean, there's a lot of things you

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Speaker 1: could give ducks. We're not. We're not giving ducks asset.

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Speaker 1: That's not a thing about giving ducks drugs is they're

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Speaker 1: all monsters. That is true. They are monsters and rapists,

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Speaker 1: every one of them. Yeah, ducks. So anyway, a reoccurring

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Speaker 1: theme was that people were running around wildly and being

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Speaker 1: very fearful of like monstery animals and encroaching flames. Um

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Speaker 1: it sounds like the ducks were having a good time

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00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 1: though their ministry of silly walk shit, Like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know what all these people are bummed about. This is

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Speaker 1: rad okay. So when when you first said that, I

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Speaker 1: heard dogs, and I was like, that is the most

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Speaker 1: terrible I ever heard. Ducks is much funnier. It's like

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Speaker 1: duck standing like very upright, like penguins walking around in

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Speaker 1: the line. I think ducks might enjoy it. I think

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Speaker 1: dogs are a little too aware of what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Grison dog. The stone thing was about the dog, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the dog scar Yeah. I just don't know that the

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Speaker 1: dogs enjoy because, like I've seen dogs accidentally eat large

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Speaker 1: amounts of pot and whatnot and they get weird. They

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Speaker 1: they're they're pretty scared. They're pretty they're pretty scared. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what is also very spooky? Yeah, capitalism

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00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 1: had all of these spooky advertisements to sell things advertisements

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00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: are also a form of mind control. Speaking of the

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Speaker 1: CIA in the fifties anyway, profoundly damaging. What's up? Guys,

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Speaker 1: Shop Blow and I'm Troy Millions and we are the

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00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 1: host of the Earnier Leisure podcast where we break down

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. The Gangster Chronicles podcast

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Speaker 1: is a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld and

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Speaker 1: criminals and entertainers to victims's crime and law enforcement. We

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Speaker 1: cover all facets of the game. Gangster Chronicles podcast doesn't

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Speaker 1: glorify promotilst of activities. We just discussed the ramifications and

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Speaker 1: repercussions of these activities because after all, she played gamester games.

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Speaker 1: Find against the Chronicles podcast and I Heart Radio app

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Jake Halbern, host

386
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: of deep Cover. Our new season is about a lawyer

387
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 1: who helped the mob run Chicago. We controlled the courts,

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00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: we controlled absolutely everything. He bribed judges and even helped

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00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 1: a hit man walk free until one day when he

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00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,880
Speaker 1: started talking with the FBI and promised that he could

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Speaker 1: take the mob down. I've spent the past year try

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00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 1: to figure out why he flipped and what he was

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Speaker 1: really after. From my perspective, Bob was too good to

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00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 1: be true. There's got to be something wrong with this.

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00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 1: I wouldn't trust the guy. He looks like a little scum,

396
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: big liar, still big, and he looked like what he

397
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,199
Speaker 1: was or at. I can say with all certainty I

398
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: think he's a hero because he didn't have to do

399
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: what he did, and he did it anyway. The moment

400
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: I put the wire around the first time, my life

401
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: was over. If it ever got out, they would kill

402
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: me in a heartbeat. Listen to deep Cover on the

403
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: I Heart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get

404
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: your podcasts. We are back from the spooky advertise. Yeah anyway. Um. So,

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00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: I think another another reoccurring factor for why a lot

406
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: of these people have very similar types of experiences around

407
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,520
Speaker 1: like snakes um which we're talking about later, and like

408
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: flames is like with this many people trapping and no

409
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,159
Speaker 1: one has the tripping as I think it's really easy

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Speaker 1: for an idea or a fear to spread from one

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00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 1: person to another while they're tripping. Um. With like this

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00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,680
Speaker 1: many people, I think if someone says something, it's gonna

413
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 1: start happening to someone else. And it's kind kind of

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00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of this like cascading effect where they're all developed

415
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: these very similar fear is because it's almost like being

416
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 1: spread like an infection. Um. So there was there was

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00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 1: a one man convinced that red snakes were devouring his

418
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,520
Speaker 1: brain and he jumped out a window. Oh did he

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Speaker 1: live this? He did live. Um, I'm not guessing a

420
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: lot of these. It's it's like France and the fifties,

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Speaker 1: So I'm guessing most of these buildings are not super

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00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: They're they're not super high up now, No, they're like

423
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: fall enough foot or two. Although here we have another one.

424
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: Another mad reportedly left for a window, yelling, look everyone,

425
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: I'm a dragonfly. Men. The men broke. The men broke

426
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: both legs, but he stood up and continued running, looking

427
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:05,560
Speaker 1: d king Sigma stigma behavior. Yeah, absolute, this is a

428
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: new kind of man. Just drapped. Look everyone, have a

429
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 1: dragonfly breaks both legs, he keeps running. Based on the

430
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: information you've provided us, I can't say he's not a dragon. No,

431
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: he is an absolute, absolute king. Good for I hope

432
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: he had a great life. Yeah. Another one saw his

433
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: heart escape through his feet and beseeched the doctor to

434
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: try to put it back into place. You don't want

435
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: to have that happen. That doesn't sound fun. You want

436
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 1: to keep that somewhere around the middle of your body.

437
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 1: Someone sprinted down the lane, claiming that he was being

438
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 1: chased by bandits with donkey ears. A nearby river, a

439
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 1: man was convinced that he was a circus tight rope

440
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,679
Speaker 1: walker and attended to balance his way across the cables

441
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 1: of a suspension bridge. How do you know it doesn't

442
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: say the report does not tell you sound like he's

443
00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: not in the death report. Yeah, he's therefore, and therefore

444
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: another another person did try to die in the river.

445
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: He tried to jump into the river, only to be

446
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: saved by his friends. And he was screaming, I am dead,

447
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: I am dead, and my head is made of copper,

448
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 1: and I have snakes in my stomach and they are

449
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 1: burning me. It's such a weird description of like tripping

450
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 1: and saying like my head is made of copper. I'm

451
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: trying to think of, like what was going on? What,

452
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: like what what series of events did did he spiral

453
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: down in his brain to have that sentence I did?

454
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure it's it's it's definitely I can

455
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 1: definitely see it happening. I just I just can. I'm

456
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: trying to think, like we're exactly what what happened to

457
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: get to that point. It's really real interesting. I think

458
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 1: some of these are hard because again, it's like these

459
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 1: people just think literally think they're going insane or that

460
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: like this stuff is just actually happening to them. Like

461
00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: you were, like when when you're tripping on acid, you

462
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: already kind of have the feeling that there is moments

463
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: where you feel like this is like this is like

464
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: never gonna end, even though even though you know you

465
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,400
Speaker 1: know you're on acid. These people don't know that, right,

466
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: Like these people don't have the reassearnce like no, I

467
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: took acid, I'm on a drug, this is gonna be over.

468
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 1: They think this is gonna last forever, right Like they

469
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: think this this is just the world now, Like this

470
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: is just one of those Robert Anton Wilson, who is

471
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 1: a thinker I enjoy a lot, writes a lot about

472
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: how to calm people down when they've taken too much,

473
00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: and most of his advices around talking about like okay,

474
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: well how long ago did you take it? Hey, Well,

475
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: that the good news is that this is going to

476
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: end here. You know, it's only gonna last this long,

477
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: like you're you're through this point. Oh, this is the

478
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: this is the second hour, freakies, and by the third

479
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: hour you'll be fine again and enjoying it. Like it's

480
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: all about making keeping in people's minds like this is

481
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: going to pass. So yeah, you're right, like this is

482
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 1: the fucking worst way to take drugs, alright. So local newspapers, uh,

483
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 1: and also like in national newspapers described described this as

484
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: a among the stricken delirium rose patients thrash wildly on

485
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: their beds, screaming that red flowers were blossoming from their bodies,

486
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: people throwing themselves from rooftops, men and women throwing their

487
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: clothes off and running in the streets naked, and children

488
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: complaining their stomachs were infested with coils and snakes, Which

489
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: I mean half of that sounds like, yeah, that's like

490
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 1: a normal good time just running around the streets naked

491
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 1: on acid other and I was like, yeah, that doesn't

492
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 1: seem pleasant with coils and snakes near stomach, but also

493
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: like flowers blossoming fund your body. I can I can

494
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 1: I can understand that kind of sensation. Um, but like

495
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,399
Speaker 1: it definitely definitely wasn't all horrible and the night like

496
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: nightmares we we were. We already mentioned the giddy people

497
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: with burning anuses, um, but for like the full on

498
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: tripping folks. According to the New York Times, there's reports

499
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 1: of people like hearing heavenly choruses and seeing you know,

500
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: bright colors. The world look beautiful to them. Um. Apparently

501
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: the head of the farming co op wrote hundreds of

502
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: pages of like enlightened tripping poetry. That that guy must

503
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,800
Speaker 1: be as because knowing nothing, he starts tripping, not knowing

504
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,520
Speaker 1: he's tripping. It's just like time to make some fucking art,

505
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: you know what? This head state is good for writing

506
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: some ship just like went to his cabinets, wrote poetry.

507
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: That's fucking awesome. That's a guy. I'll bet he handled

508
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 1: just everything that life through it. Well, Like that says

509
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: a lot about you when you're like, oh, demons have

510
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: infiltrated my brain. I guess I'm gonna hang out in

511
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: my cabin and write some poems hundreds of pages. Wow,

512
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,160
Speaker 1: like I could. I could hardly write ship on acid.

513
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine trying to write poetry. I've done a

514
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: lot of creative stuff on acid, creative stuff. Yeah, I

515
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: just feel like specifically, like reading and typing can can

516
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: be hard at certain points, you know, if if you're

517
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: like coming down that it can be easier, but really

518
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: good for like writing, It's good for ideas that you

519
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: later can flesh out into writing. But yeah, so unfortunately,

520
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: you know, because this was you know, no when it

521
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,760
Speaker 1: was going on, many people were taken to local asylums

522
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: in straight jackets and tied onto beds, making things undoubtedly

523
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: worse for people tripping. It's one of those things I

524
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: can't even be angry at them because like they don't

525
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: know what's going you know, like you have no idea

526
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: what's going on the whole, Like every attemptant restraint increased

527
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 1: the agitation line is like horrifying from the concept of

528
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: like you're tripping, you you you do, you don't know

529
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: what's going on, and people are tying you down to beds,

530
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:25,959
Speaker 1: making you feel like you're even more stuck in this

531
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: permanent seat of delirium. It's just it just it is

532
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 1: the worst nightmare. Yeah, all of this is horrible. The

533
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: mayor of the town said, like, I've seen healthy men

534
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: and women suddenly become terrorized, ripping in their bed sheets,

535
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: hiding themselves beneath their blankets to escape their hallucinations. So yeah,

536
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: it's it's if you, if you, if you don't know

537
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: what's going on, pretty pretty pretty scary except for the

538
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,000
Speaker 1: poetry guy. Good for him, Yeah, good for him. Um. Yeah.

539
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: So by by the time the effects had subsided for

540
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: everyone affected, which is around like a few days after

541
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: the initial reported like nausea, like, you know, it didn't

542
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: affect everyone at the same time. You know, some people

543
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: got dosed later on. It's it's unclear what exactly because

544
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: it's of the fifties, we didn't have a great idea

545
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: of the exact timeline of events of like when the

546
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: first effects were felt and like how all the spaced out.

547
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 1: But this whole instant arrassed lasted around like a few

548
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: days for like everyone, everyone totaled. Um. It was supported

549
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: that anywhere between like three hundred and five hundred people

550
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: had felt the effects, um, you know, around fifty feeling

551
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: very very extreme like open eye like hallucinations of objects

552
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: that aren't even there, like like very extreme hallucinations. Um.

553
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: And and four people did die in connection to the poisoning.

554
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: UM at least where people died. It's again it's unclear

555
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: for exact numbers for a lot of this stuff. UM.

556
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: An investigation into the sudden outbreak of the madness was

557
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: probably underway. Town officials wanted to get to the bottom

558
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: of this as quickly as possible. Do you want to

559
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:58,719
Speaker 1: figure out what was happening? Yeah? Um? And the blame

560
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: fell onto a single batch of bread what so among

561
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: the common denominator among those affected that they all allegedly

562
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: consumed bread from one specific baker. He was accused of

563
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: using er got contaminated rye flower, and he was arrested

564
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,440
Speaker 1: and a temporary imprisoned. UM. Also, a nearby miller that

565
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 1: he got the flower from was also arrested and given

566
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: some of the blame. UM. The funny part is that

567
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,520
Speaker 1: around this time, the French government had a very top

568
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: down grain distribution system that originally controlled everything about where

569
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: the grains were milled, where they were sent, and what

570
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: bakers could use which flower, so bakers had no choice

571
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: and what type of flower to use or what kind

572
00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: of grain they could use in baking. It was all

573
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: decided by other people. Bread is like real big deal

574
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: and pretty pretty pretty important. Yeah, for the record, just

575
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: like air got poisoning. There are a lot of cases

576
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 1: of like different like dancing manias and whatnot in like

577
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: the medieval in midi e. Full Europe, or like whole

578
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: towns will be well, everyone will start like dancing or

579
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: like hallucinating, and you know, they always came down as

580
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: like these people assumed apocryphal of stories about like demon

581
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: possessions or whatnot. And now a lot of the suspicions

582
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: like oh yeah some aragod gotten No, yeah it was

583
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: it was it was just or poisoning. It seems like

584
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: one of the rougher trips to go on. I'm not

585
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: super clean, it's no. I mean I've done l s A,

586
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: which I think is similar similar to yeah, they're tripp

587
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,200
Speaker 1: to means that are like really rough and it's I

588
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: would not don't don't do l s A. No, Hawaiian

589
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: baby would row seeds for if you're going to take

590
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: L s A, then actually like synthesizing, which is a

591
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: felonate um. But you can just buy Hawaiian baby wood

592
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: roase seeds and eat them and you will have maybe

593
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 1: the worst trip of your life. Great advice from the

594
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,479
Speaker 1: from the pod. Um so yeah, on on on on

595
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: the on the on the rye and ergot topic, The

596
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: past growing season was especially wet and ergot fun guy

597
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,360
Speaker 1: did grow across the country's rye fields. Um. But the

598
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: amount of ergot on the rye and the amount of

599
00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: rye used in baking was thought to not be enough

600
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: to induce any any type of poisoning. UM. In fact,

601
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,760
Speaker 1: that the last time or like orgot poisoning had struck

602
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: France was back in was back in eighteen sixteen, so

603
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,320
Speaker 1: almost like a century and a half before this incident.

604
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 1: And there was a century if it's the fifties, right,

605
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: little less than a century no, so the last instant

606
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 1: was eighteen sixteen. This was no no so a century

607
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: and a half ago. Um. And no other towns anything,

608
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 1: and no other part of France was affected by anything

609
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: similar to this. Um So the ergot thing is kind

610
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: of iffy um it. But the organ explanation was the

611
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: only thing that doctors investigators could come to would do,

612
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: like you know, the their their limited knowledge around brain

613
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: altering substances, and just pressure from town officials to get

614
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: to the bottom of this so that they had something

615
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 1: to blame and people could like move on. Um. But

616
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: you know, as a result, not much evidence really backs

617
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: up there backs up, there got claim and a lot

618
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 1: of experts today kind of deem it bunk um it

619
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: doesn't There's and and there's a bunch of like, um,

620
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 1: there's this thing hike key on that the Greeks would

621
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: take that was like this Greek hallucinatory thing that they

622
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: think it was because they were putting grain and wine

623
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: and it might have been air got poisoned, but also

624
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: like people enjoyed it. And so there's a lot of

625
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: debate over whether or not it could have been argot

626
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: But I don't know, Um, I don't know what else is.

627
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:36,399
Speaker 1: There are other other theories about what it might Boy

628
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 1: is it the CIA? Where can they get to it? So, yeah,

629
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make much sense that the high amounts

630
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 1: of ergot rye would only be in one batch of grain,

631
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:47,920
Speaker 1: used in a single batch of bread from just one

632
00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,399
Speaker 1: bakery and one small town. Doesn't doesn't really make sense. Um.

633
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: Other explanations um that people have come to includes like

634
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: mercury poisoning and overuse of other fungicides. These have been

635
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: mostly disproven. Yeah, that seemed like mercury poisoning. No, but

636
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 1: there is a guy who likes to drink some mercury,

637
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: you know boy. So yeah. So there's a lot of

638
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: other theories around, like fungicides being used, but those have

639
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: been kind of disproved by some people, but others still

640
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,239
Speaker 1: point to them as possible explanations. But but there is

641
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: one other theory that we will focus on that features

642
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: two of my favorite things, LSD and the nineteen fifties CIA.

643
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: Because if you're gonna pick a c I A, they

644
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 1: had the most fun, the most right, like, you know

645
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: who else has a lot of fun? Garrison who is

646
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 1: also the nineteen fifties c I A whoms our sponsors,

647
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: Oh really to happen here is sponsored only by the

648
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: fifties CIA, only the one from the fifties. Yeah, when

649
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: you order any of our product products, they will come

650
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: to your house and inject you with seven thousand hits

651
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: of LSD. Hey free, Hey, that is that sounds like

652
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,239
Speaker 1: a great deal on a You're saving a lot of money.

653
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: You are saying that that is a lot of free

654
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: a lot of acid for the amount of money you're spending.

655
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: You won't do more acid. That's for sure. That that's

656
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:12,520
Speaker 1: acid for life. You want do it again? Yeah you might,

657
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: you probably, probably you won't have to do it. You want?

658
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: You want to do any expenses ever again? Yeah you'll,

659
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 1: You'll survive, You'll just be a very different person by

660
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: the end of the Yeah, you you won't survive your

661
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: body with someone. At the end of that trip, someone

662
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: else will wake up. So speaking of waking up, here

663
00:37:31,040 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 1: products conquer your New year's resolution to be more productive

664
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: with the Before Breakfast podcast. In each bite sized daily episode,

665
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: time management and productivity expert Laura Vanderkam teaches you how

666
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,080
Speaker 1: to make the most of your time, both at work

667
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,439
Speaker 1: and at home. These are the practical suggestions you need

668
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: to get more done with your day. Just as lifting

669
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: weights keeps our body as strong as we age, learn

670
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: new skills is the mental equivalent of pumping iron. Listen

671
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: to Before Breakfast wherever you get your podcasts, Hey Leath

672
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: the listeners take here. Last season on Lethal Lit, you

673
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: might remember I came to Hollow Falls on a mission

674
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 1: clearing my aunt Best's name and making sure justice was

675
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: finally served. But I hadn't counted on a rash of

676
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: new murders tearing apart the town. My mission put myself

677
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 1: and my friends in danger, though it wasn't all bad,

678
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to be real Ify Tig, I like you.

679
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: But now all signs point to a new serial killer

680
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: in Hollow Falls. If this game is just starting, you

681
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 1: better believe I'm gonna win. I'm Tig Torres and this

682
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 1: is Lethal Lit. Catch up on season one of the

683
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 1: hit murder mystery podcast Lethal Lit, a tag Torre's mystery

684
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 1: out now, and then tune in for all new thrills

685
00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: in the season two, dropping weekly starting February. Subscribe now

686
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,439
Speaker 1: to never miss an episode. Listen to Leave the Lit

687
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

688
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,240
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. When P. T. Barnum's Great American

689
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,000
Speaker 1: Museum burned to the ground in eighteen sixty five, what

690
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: rose from its ashes would change the world? Welcome to

691
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,320
Speaker 1: Grim and Mild presents an ongoing journey into the strange,

692
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: the unusual, and the fascinating. For our inaugural season will

693
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,360
Speaker 1: be giving you a backstage tour of the always complex

694
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 1: and often misunderstood cultural artifact that is the American Side Show.

695
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: So come along as we visit the shadowy corners of

696
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,440
Speaker 1: the stage and learn about the people who were at

697
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: the center of it all in a place where spectacle

698
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: was king. We will soon discover there's always more to

699
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,719
Speaker 1: the story than meets the eye. So step right up

700
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: and get in line. Listen to Grim and Mild Presents

701
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 1: now on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

702
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. Learn more over at Grim

703
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: and Mild dot com. Slash Presents SO nineteen fifties c

704
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: I a UM Wild Time in two US A nine.

705
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,880
Speaker 1: Hank p. Albarelli is an an American writer and journalist

706
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: released a book called A Terrible Mistake, which focuses on

707
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: the suspicious death of a CIA scientist named Frank Olson,

708
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: who worked on the CIA mind control experiments during the

709
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: late forties and early fifties. While researching the book, Albarelli

710
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: claims to have come across a number of old CIA

711
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 1: and White House documents referencing the pont St De Sprite incident,

712
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: and he claims that the village was the target of

713
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: a CIA experiment on the mass effects of LSD and

714
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: that around the time that Frank Olsen wanted to sever

715
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: his ties with the Army and CIA. Frank started talking

716
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: about his participation in the experiment, which may have led

717
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: to the government off in Olson. So I know that

718
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 1: is a lot and it is slightly more than justice speculation.

719
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: We're going to get into the evidence here shortly. UM.

720
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,400
Speaker 1: But by now it's pretty well known that throughout the forties, fifties,

721
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: and sixties, both the U. S. Army and the CIA

722
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 1: tried to use hallucinogetic hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD as

723
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: both an offensive weapon and as a way to make

724
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: like psychic super soldiers. The programs like MK Ultra and

725
00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: k Naomi, Project Bluebird, Project Artichoke, UM, lots of lots

726
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: of these things were trying to find different ways of

727
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 1: using LSD for like offensive and defensive means. UM. Some

728
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: of the interest was promoted by it was was prompted

729
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,919
Speaker 1: by reports of the Soviet Union doing experiments with drugs

730
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,920
Speaker 1: around the same time. Also stuff around like you know,

731
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,359
Speaker 1: hYP like like like like psychic powers and hypnosis. This

732
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: was very popular around this time for for lots of

733
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: different intelligence agencies. UM. But so albare Eli uncovered report

734
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: from nineteen forty nine by the director of the Edwood

735
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: Arsenal which many which which was where many US government

736
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: LSD experiments were carried out. And this report stated that

737
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 1: the army should do everything, everything is post everything, everything

738
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: possible to launch so called field experiments using this drug. Later,

739
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: in his to us A nine book, Albrely claims that

740
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 1: he found references to a government document with the label

741
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: RETTU SPRI and f Olsen files s O span slash

742
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:17,240
Speaker 1: France Operation File inclusive Olsen Intel files. Hand Carrie to Bellan,

743
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,520
Speaker 1: tell him to see to it that these are buried. Um,

744
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: this document does exist like we we were like we

745
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 1: we we we do have this label on on this document. Um,

746
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: but like the actual contents of documents are are gone.

747
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: But this is this is this is this is just

748
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:38,040
Speaker 1: a label that is being referenced as so the document

749
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: label references Frank Olson and David Bellan. So Bellan was

750
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,080
Speaker 1: the executive director of the Rocketeller Commission, created by the

751
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: White House in the mid seventies to investigate abuses carried

752
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: out worldwide by the Central Intelligence Agency. So Albrely believes

753
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:56,919
Speaker 1: that the that the French town Lst incident Um, which

754
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,400
Speaker 1: is like the Ponce St Spre, which is the name

755
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: of the town and the Ethelson files mentioned in the

756
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: document would definitely show that if the document hadn't been buried,

757
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: as it was said in the in the label the CIA,

758
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: it would show that the CIA was experimenting on the

759
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,840
Speaker 1: townspeople by dosing them with what he thinks was LSD UM.

760
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: Now there is also a bit more to it than

761
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: that um. Using Foya's he got ahold of another CIA document,

762
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: a two page report from my team fifty four detailing

763
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 1: a conversation between a CIA agent and a representative of

764
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 1: the San DAWs Chemical Company. So this the San Das

765
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 1: base was the place where Albert Hoffman invented LSD in

766
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: night Um and it was it was it was only

767
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: a few hundred kilometers away from pont st A Spree,

768
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: the town where this happened, So the chemical company was

769
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: actually pretty pretty close relatively to like europe um and

770
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: it was also the only place where LSD was being

771
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 1: made at the time. And they were providing both the

772
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: Army and the CIA with a lot of a lot

773
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 1: of acid. But you mean they're also giving it like

774
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: they're also giving it to universities. They gave lots to

775
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: Timothy Learia. Initially they were they were, they were they

776
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: were giving a gut to a lot of different universities

777
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 1: and people, but including the US government. So the c

778
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,880
Speaker 1: I A. The CIA agent wrote um in this report

779
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: that was like he was detailing a dinner he had

780
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: with this representative of the chemical company, and he reported

781
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: that after having several drinks, the scientists started talking about

782
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 1: the pomp sat desprite incident. The send off official burned

783
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 1: out the pomp sat a spirit secret was that it

784
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: was not the bread at all. Continued to send off

785
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 1: official for weeks. The French tied up our laboratories with

786
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,720
Speaker 1: analysis of the bread. It was not the grain ergot,

787
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,960
Speaker 1: It was a die ethyl laminated Sorry it's it's the

788
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:48,520
Speaker 1: last part of the LSD. Yeah, the die ethel lemonide

789
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: like compound. So yeah, surgic diethyl acid is what LSD

790
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,400
Speaker 1: stands for. So yeah, he the side just said that

791
00:44:55,480 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: it was. It was like it was like basically an

792
00:44:57,560 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 1: LSD like compound. Um. So that's that was the that

793
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: was reported detail like a dinner that a CIA agent

794
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:10,280
Speaker 1: had with this scientist. Um. And that document was uncovered

795
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: and that was it was from like the fifties. Now

796
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: this this this next part has a little bit less

797
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: proof to it because there's no documents backing this up.

798
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:20,400
Speaker 1: But l Brelli also claims that Dirk is diggig to forward.

799
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: CIA researchers reached out to him and revealed that revealed

800
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: some details of some possible details of the method of

801
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: the poisoning. They told him that the village was subjected

802
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:39,800
Speaker 1: to an air blitz of pull rized LSD. I'm sorry,

803
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: that's fucking based so to force the people taking the

804
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 1: substance through the air. According to the researchers, this manner

805
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 1: of of this manner of distribution proved mostly unsuccessful, um,

806
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: forcing the CIA to move onto phase two, which was

807
00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: contaminating local food. So apparently the air if if the

808
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: air blitz was a thing, it didn't work super well. Um.

809
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: Although actually about to have Sophie Bias a plane. We'll

810
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: talk about this later, but um, the c A did

811
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: do more air blitzing um of of acid in New

812
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: York City. Actually, they would ride around in cars um

813
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: in like poorer and poorer more like multicultural areas, UM

814
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: shooting LSD out of the back of the car to

815
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 1: see what would happen to FA, I mean take out

816
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: the racism and that really is a dream job, just

817
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: driving around cities air dosing people with acid and random

818
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: smoking cigarettes. Probably. So with the conclusion drawn that it

819
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: was one of the town's bakeries being the source of

820
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: the poisoning, Albrel says it was possible that LSD was

821
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 1: put in or onto the bread um. So yeah. And

822
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 1: also lots of the scientists, lots of the scientists dispatched

823
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:01,720
Speaker 1: to investigate the reasoning after it took place, where actually

824
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,840
Speaker 1: from the Sandaws Chemical company. Um. They studied the situation

825
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 1: for like two or three weeks UM and gave the

826
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: explanation that would later be kind of disproven, uh, that

827
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,839
Speaker 1: it was got poisoning, which they they told the town

828
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 1: officials and the British medical journal. Um what what? What

829
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:16,719
Speaker 1: no one knew at the time was that one the

830
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:19,279
Speaker 1: existence of LSD in the first place, UM, and two

831
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: that San DAWs was the company making it and giving

832
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,359
Speaker 1: these drugs to the U. S. Army and to the CIA. UM.

833
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: And apparently apparently Albert Hoffmann himself went to the town

834
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 1: to investigate this incident UM. So yeah. And one last

835
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: thing on like the physical evidence side of things UM.

836
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: Albarelli also found an undated White House document that appeared

837
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:43,359
Speaker 1: to be part of a larger file that had been

838
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: sent to members of the Rockefeller Commission, uh, containing the

839
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:48,920
Speaker 1: names of two French nationals who had been secretly employed

840
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,280
Speaker 1: about the CIA, and made direct references to the quote

841
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: pont Saint Sprit incident um. Also it was linked the

842
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: document linked former CIA biological warfare expert and the chief

843
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,080
Speaker 1: of the Fort Derek's Special Operations Division. So those are

844
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: all places that they were experiencing with this similar kind

845
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: of thing. Um we we we have mentioned the Rockefeller

846
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,440
Speaker 1: Commission a few times now for remember the names uh,

847
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 1: Frank Olsen, the guy one of the CIA researchers on LSD,

848
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,359
Speaker 1: and David Bellan where they were they were? They were

849
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: on the label of that missing document. So but Bellin

850
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: was the executive director of the White House Commission to

851
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: investigate the CIA's abuses and crimes, which was called the

852
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,320
Speaker 1: Rockefeller Commission. It was formed by President Ford in nineteen

853
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 1: seventy five to investigate abuses and other activities by the

854
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,840
Speaker 1: CIA and a few other intelligence agencies that were operating

855
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: within the States. Um. So the Rockefeller Commission revealed not

856
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 1: only like the reason why we know, but M Kaeltro

857
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: was because the Rockefeller Commission this is this is how

858
00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 1: we know this was a thing. Um. So it not

859
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: only revealed stuff about like programs around m k Ultra,

860
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 1: but also revealed the details of the CIA dosing their

861
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: own scientist Frank Olsen with LSD and possibly killing him. Um.

862
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: There's also so like, there's like a Netflix series about

863
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: this called Woodwords, haven't. I haven't actually watched yet, so

864
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't know how good or accurate it is, but

865
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: they did. They did make a series a few years

866
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: ago about the death of Frank Olson. Um and all

867
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 1: of the weirds got yourself surrounding both his job and

868
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: and and and and his death. Um. We do love

869
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 1: the CIA, folks. So the The commission also concluded that

870
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 1: the head of the CIA's LSD program, doctor Sydney ghost Leap,

871
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: destroyed all of the drug programs records in nineteen seventy

872
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 1: three to hide the details of possibly illegal actions, and

873
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,440
Speaker 1: he was personally involved in the torture of Frank Olsen. Um.

874
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: Twenty years after Mr Olsen's death and ten years after

875
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: the elistic experiments were halted, a doctor Godlieb ordered the

876
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: destruction of all the records of the program, including a

877
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: total of one hundred and fifty two separate files. This

878
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: came shortly after other reports that that that records were

879
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 1: being destroyed by Richard helms the the then Director of

880
00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 1: Central Intelligence. So it's undoubtedly true that the CIA was

881
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: up to up to some ship involving LSD around around

882
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: the exact time period of this French Town incident. Yeah,

883
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: it's certainly not like you're not coming out of nowhere

884
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: suggesting the CIA may have dosed all these people, but

885
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: they set it to a bunch of folks. If they

886
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,960
Speaker 1: didn't do it here, they've done similar ships. It's also

887
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,279
Speaker 1: it's also worst mentioning at this point that like this

888
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: is like the point where the CIA is also running

889
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:29,520
Speaker 1: this like enormous heroin network out of France, as like

890
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: if they basically basically had this whole they have this

891
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: deal with the French where they're like, okay, so the

892
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: French mob can like basically move all the heroin they

893
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 1: want and exchange they'll like stop the communists and taking

894
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: control of the point of Marseillas. And so this is

895
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:43,719
Speaker 1: this is all also going on like at the same

896
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: time that they're doing the LSD stuff. It's great. Yeah,

897
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: so's there's some storians that think the LSD theories not

898
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: hold enough water. Um. Stephen Kaplan, it's the US historian

899
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 1: specializing in the French food history and the author of

900
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: the two book Cursed Bread, which follows this incident. Um.

901
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: He says that he is h I've numerous objections to

902
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: this paltry evidence that this that this against the CIA.

903
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: First of all, it's clinically incoherent. LSTI takes effects in

904
00:51:08,440 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: just a few hours, whereas the inhabitants, where the inhabitants

905
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,840
Speaker 1: showed symptoms only after thirty six hours or more. For

906
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:17,040
Speaker 1: the more, LSD does not cause the the digestive elements

907
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,279
Speaker 1: or the vegetative effects described by the townspeople. Um. And

908
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: So to both those claims, I say they're not necessarily true. Um.

909
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,479
Speaker 1: It's it's it's unclear how soon the delirious effects took

910
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: place for some people. They were they forced effect felt Um.

911
00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,880
Speaker 1: So the whole thing about like the effects only taking

912
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: effect after thirty six hours, that's not that's not necessarily true. Um.

913
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: And Also LSD can definitely have nauseating or digestive effects.

914
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:46,879
Speaker 1: Yet so that's that's that's that's not that's yeah, and

915
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: and but but like there were other types of symptoms

916
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: that are not common for what we think of as

917
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: like modern LST. Again, this is the nineteen fifties, and

918
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 1: we don't know what they were actually on it did

919
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: It's maybe not. It may not be what we think

920
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: of as like LSD. Now it could be slightly that

921
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: you know that this is a whole class of psychoactive

922
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 1: drugs that's unclear what they were all actually being dosed with. Yeah,

923
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:08,920
Speaker 1: who the funk knows what they were being given and

924
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: who the funk knows what the actual like dose amount was. Yeah,

925
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 1: we no no idea. It's also you know, I think

926
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:17,040
Speaker 1: it's leary was the origin of the phrase that like

927
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,040
Speaker 1: the things that determine what happens on a trip or

928
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,399
Speaker 1: set setting in dose, so your mindset, where you take

929
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,160
Speaker 1: it and who you take it around and the dose

930
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: and the fact that these are somewhat unique symptoms could

931
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: be to the fact that like other people taking acid

932
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: have never taken it this way and without knowing what

933
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: acid is like. So Kaplan's other objections revolve around like

934
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 1: the delivery system. He says it's absurd this idea of

935
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: transmitting a very toxic drug by putting by putting it

936
00:52:45,880 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 1: in the bread as for pulver as to get for

937
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: ingestion through the air. That technology wasn't even possible at

938
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 1: the time. Most compelling lee why would they choose the

939
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: town of pont Sta Spree to conduct these tests. It

940
00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:57,680
Speaker 1: was half destroyed by the U. S. Army during fighting

941
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: with the Germans in the Second World War. It makes

942
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: no sense. And and to that, I say, that makes

943
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 1: it the perfect town for the CIA to funk with me. Yeah,

944
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: they generally would choose to dose someone with acid because

945
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: it sounded funny, Like. I think the fact that this

946
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,360
Speaker 1: town was already kind of like only half inhabited and

947
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,560
Speaker 1: half destroyed by the by the Second World War, that

948
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 1: makes it the perfect town to funk with like. And

949
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,399
Speaker 1: also they also, the CIA and the government very much

950
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:28,640
Speaker 1: did have the means to try to distribute stuff via

951
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: the air, because we can see other we can see

952
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 1: other documents around the time of them doing this too,

953
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: specific areas of of New York City. They also tried

954
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:38,960
Speaker 1: to poison the entire New York Subway with LSD in

955
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:41,120
Speaker 1: the fifties, but that was shut down by higher ups

956
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:45,040
Speaker 1: in in the central intelligence. Um. Fortunately, God, what a

957
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: time that would have been. But but cap But but

958
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,440
Speaker 1: Caplan isn't sure or got the responsible either. Um. He

959
00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: says that inhabination would not have worked because it doesn't

960
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: make sense that only one sack of grain would have

961
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: been affected. Um and he says if it was, the

962
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: effects would have been way more widespread. He rules out

963
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 1: LSD in the grounds and the symptoms of people suffered,

964
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,040
Speaker 1: although similar don't quite fit what we modernly think of

965
00:54:09,080 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 1: the drug. Also, I don't I don't think Captain's ever

966
00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: taken LSD, so I don't think I think it probably

967
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: not being air got. But I don't think you know

968
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,319
Speaker 1: as much, yeah, he all he also he also He

969
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,800
Speaker 1: also points out that LSD probably wouldn't have survived the

970
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 1: fierce temperatures of the Baker's oven, although Albarelli counters that

971
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,080
Speaker 1: it could have been that LSD could have been added

972
00:54:27,120 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: after the fact to the surface of the break. You

973
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:30,960
Speaker 1: could just drop it on, you could you just drop

974
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 1: it on with like with like liquid blodders, which also

975
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 1: explain how the effects were so different from person to person,

976
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:37,959
Speaker 1: because one person maybe having a whole drop of LSD

977
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: where somebody maybe only have like a tiny little like

978
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,720
Speaker 1: you know, spec of like speck of like like moist liquid.

979
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: So I can explain some things. But you know, this

980
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: is still pretty much a mystery. You know, it's very clear,

981
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: this very much, very well could have been some kind

982
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 1: of hidden LSD c I a experiment UM, or the

983
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: CIA could have just been, you know, interested in studying

984
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 1: what happened the town since they were also doing studies

985
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: into psychoactives substances at the time. Um, it could be

986
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,439
Speaker 1: either or UM. And that's where its spooky because you'll

987
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:13,000
Speaker 1: never know. So, yes, that is that. That is the

988
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 1: spooky incident of a French town basically thinking that they

989
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 1: lost their minds. And then you know they love to

990
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:24,520
Speaker 1: see it, do we. It's it is a little funny.

991
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,360
Speaker 1: It is definitely a little funny. Um. It's it is

992
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:32,000
Speaker 1: a great example of like the worst way to trip. Yeah,

993
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 1: that that's that's pretty high up there. Um. Anyway, critical

994
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 1: support to the CIA for josing random people with acid.

995
00:55:39,640 --> 00:55:42,319
Speaker 1: Always one of my favorite sets of stories. You you

996
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,720
Speaker 1: love to see it, so yeah, tune tune in, tune

997
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: in tomorrow for more spooky, spooky story and you can

998
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: follow the spooky social media that poisons your brain at

999
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: papen here pod and cool Zone Media which yes, Twitter

1000
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,480
Speaker 1: will poison your brain. That that's justice, spooky um, spooky

1001
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 1: way worse for your brain than surprise. C I A

1002
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:25,799
Speaker 1: asked to be honest. The acid wears off. Give us

1003
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 1: over attention. We need everything you've got fast. Waiting on

1004
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,000
Speaker 1: Reparations would beat the podcast. Tune in every Thursday politics

1005
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,399
Speaker 1: and wordplay. We fight for the people because they got

1006
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 1: us in the worst way. From the Hill Cooper, the

1007
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: Bombay to Kanya, from the left on Clay to what

1008
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 1: the neo kanse every Thursday the heavy conversation and to

1009
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 1: break us off with some break because we're waiting the reparations.

1010
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app,

1011
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:57,640
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The art

1012
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: world it is essentially a money laundering business. The best

1013
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: fakes are still hanging on people's walls. You know they

1014
00:57:04,520 --> 00:57:08,440
Speaker 1: don't even know or suspect that their fakes. I'm Alec

1015
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:12,759
Speaker 1: Baldwin and this is a podcast about deception, greed and

1016
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: forgery in the art world. I just walked in and

1017
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: saw this bright red painting presuming to be a Rothko.

1018
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:25,680
Speaker 1: Of course, art forgeries only happen because there's money to

1019
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:29,440
Speaker 1: be made, a lot of money. I'm listening to what

1020
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 1: they're paying for these things. It was an incredible mans

1021
00:57:32,720 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 1: of money. You knew the painting was fake. Um. Listen

1022
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: to Art Fraud starting February one on the I Heart

1023
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1024
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 1: After thirty years, it's time to return to the halls

1025
00:57:56,920 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 1: of West Beverly High and hang out at the peach pit.

1026
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:01,760
Speaker 1: On the pod cast nine O two one o MG,

1027
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: visit Jenny Garth and Tori Spelling for a rewatch of

1028
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: the hit series Beverly Hills nine O two one oh.

1029
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 1: From the very beginning, we get to tell the fans

1030
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:13,240
Speaker 1: all of the behind the scenes stories to actually happen,

1031
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: so they know what happened on camera obviously, but we

1032
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,439
Speaker 1: can tell them all the good stuff that happened off camera.

1033
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:20,600
Speaker 1: Listen to nine O two one O MG on the

1034
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1035
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: your podcasts.