1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,879 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Donald Trump says ultimately Putin is 4 00:00:11,920 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: going to take over all of Ukraine. Wow. We have 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,440 Speaker 1: a jam pack show today. The Washington Post, Plumbline Blogs. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: Greg Sargeant, we'll talk to us about why we're pealing 7 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: Michigan's right to work law was a huge deal. Then 8 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: Vices Cameron Joseph talks to us about the Claremont Institute 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: snuggling up to Ron de Santis after being Trump's brain 10 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: for many years. But first we have former congressmen and 11 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: current best friend of mine, Mondair Jones. Welcome back to 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: Fast Politics. Fan favorite Mandare Jones, Oh, fan favorite. Okay, 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: I've been promoted. I apologize, but it's true. Trump was 14 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: indicted yesterday or incited depending on your autocorrect or indicated. 15 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: I think according to what you truth and truth social Yes. 16 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: By the way, I went to a dinner last night 17 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: with a bunch of political writery people and they were 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: like One of them was like, now every indictment is 19 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: going to come down. I was like, really, no, I 20 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 1: don't think that's how it works. I have great faith 21 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: in the prosecutor down in Fulton County, Georgia, and I've 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: got more faith in the special prosecutor at at Main Justice, 23 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: and I do Mary Garland, and so I think they'll 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: indict when they're good and ready. Yeah, I do think 25 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: that those indictments are amin it based on the public 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 1: reporting here. These Republicans are right. There was so many 27 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: machinations about this. Right, you had Linda Graham weeping on 28 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: television like a televangelist, begging people to send donations to 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, right, begging people. What are they thinking. I 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, lindsay I suppose once additional terms 31 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: in the Senate. I don't know why he needed to 32 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: cry when he did that. I mean thinking just kind 33 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: of tow the party line, as damaging as that is 34 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: to our democracy without the the water works. And it's 35 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,360 Speaker 1: just really sad how far he has fallen from the 36 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: standpoint of integrity. I think John McCain is rolling in 37 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: his brave because of what is his dear friend has 38 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: been doing his past several years. But I will just 39 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 1: say I think all of these people are very happy 40 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: that Trump is finally getting indicted for things They do 41 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: not want him to be the nominee, even though he 42 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,639 Speaker 1: is even more likely, it would appear, to become a 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: nominee after having been indicted by several different prosecuting authorities. 44 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: They don't want to piss off the base, and unfortunately, 45 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: the base is not persuaded by efforts to hold Trump 46 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 1: accountable for whether it is inciting violence at the Capitol 47 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: on January sixth, or trying to overturn the election results 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: in Georgia, or holding on to classify documents when he's 49 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 1: been told he has to return them right, and lying 50 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: about what classified documents you have. That's what I'm sort 51 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: of struck by. Its like there were some Republicans, I 52 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: mean some thought leaders of the Republican Party like Kat 53 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: Turd and also Eric Ericson, who both said I put 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: them basically on the same level, who said, like, you 55 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: have now made Trump president again, and I actually don't 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 1: think that's true. I think that what they were responding 57 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: to is they now know Trump will win the nomination. 58 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: I think that's right, that he's more likely today to 59 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: win the nomination than he was before news of the 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: indictment came down. But I'm also not a hundred convinced 61 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 1: of that theory because as we get closer to the 62 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: primaries on the Republican side, which will take place next year, 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: I'd like to imagine that Republican voters, as disappointing as 64 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: they may be on a certain level, are concerned with electability. 65 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: And by then, I expect that Trump will have been 66 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: indicted by the Department of Justice at the level by 67 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: the DA in Folts County, and of course he has 68 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: been indicted by the Manhattan disc Attorney. That's not something 69 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: that is exciting for a for the average general election voter. 70 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're if you're an independent, you know 71 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 1: you're you're concerned about that, and you're more likely to 72 00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: vote for Joe Biden than you would be in the 73 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: absence of those indictments. And I think that there are 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: still some Republicans who are concerned about whether their nominee 75 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: can win in the general election. That's this theory, right, 76 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: That's the theory is that you are nominating someone because 77 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: they can win in a general election and not because 78 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,359 Speaker 1: you you know, you're trusting a weird QAnon plan that 79 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: doesn't really exist. Yes, I'd like to believe that. I mean, 80 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: I don't know. You know. The thing that's so I 81 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: want to say interesting, but it's really kind of what 82 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: if there's a sort of negative word for interesting. The 83 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,920 Speaker 1: thing that's so worrying about where we are right now 84 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: is that there this is a sense in which this 85 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: Republican party is controlled by its base, and its base 86 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: is not living on Earth one. That's right. There is 87 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:15,280 Speaker 1: in fact an effort to completely delude the base Republican 88 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: voter into thinking that facts are not reality. I mean 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: that takes the form of Tucker Carlson's show, and Crime 90 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 1: Time and pretty much every show at Fox News, with 91 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: maybe one or two exceptions. According to the discovery that 92 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: we now have in the Dominion voting case, which is 93 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: an extraordinary lawsuit that I think will end favorably for 94 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: Dominion and hopefully be a boon to those of us 95 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 1: who want to see truth prevailing democracy remain, democracy continue. Yes, 96 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about that. So you know, 97 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,679 Speaker 1: we are in the run up to this Dominion case. 98 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: If I were Ruper Murdoch, which I am very much not, 99 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: thank god, I wouldn't want to settle this case. If 100 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: I'm your attorney, and I'm urge you to settle this 101 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 1: thing as soon as possible. In fact, I would have 102 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: urged you to settle it a long time ago. Now. Oftentimes, 103 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: and I know this from from having practice law for 104 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: several years, clients don't do what you advised to do. 105 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: And I think there's actually been some reporting to this effect. 106 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: But my god, this is really embarrassing. I mean, tuber 107 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 1: Crompson is now admitting to a conversation he had with 108 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trumpton, which he apologized for the text messages that 109 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 1: he seemed to which is about his public and admission 110 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 1: that we're going to get I think, And of course 111 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: he only went on far right media to describe that conversation, 112 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: But if you continue to read the Wall Street Journal, 113 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: you're not going to hear anything Dominion gas right. I 114 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: also feel like Dominion really has a kind of Thalmann 115 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: Louise like drive off the cliff mentality with this case. 116 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of young, Yes, you're a little, thank 117 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: you very much, a little young than Jesse and I 118 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: thank you. What if someone is bragging about being in 119 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: their thirtieth year. So the whole Felma and Louise baying 120 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 1: is something em says, Oh Jesus Christ, no longer fan favorite, 121 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 1: fan un favorite Manda Jones. My apologies, yah it, but yes, 122 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,559 Speaker 1: dam by Louise. It's a story of two actress, middle 123 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: aged actresses. I guess they were young then, but anyway, 124 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: they drove off a cliff. They were willing to take 125 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: themselves down. Oh good, I'm glad I could give you 126 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: this insight into popular culture. Delighted. It's very There's a 127 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: lot of bragging about how young he is here, but anyway, 128 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: we'll allow it. No. I look, I mean, I just 129 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: if I go to Florida, I'll never hear about it, 130 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: because I'm sure this stuff has been banned already by 131 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: Ron de Santas. Right, exactly banned by Ron de Santras. 132 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: We had on this podcast in the last episode we 133 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:58,360 Speaker 1: had JENSACKI and she was talking about this idea that 134 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: this White House really can kind of sit back and 135 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: let the Republicans destroy themselves on each other. Do you 136 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 1: think that's a wise move for Democrats? To an extent, 137 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: She's certainly write that the contrast is not one that's 138 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: difficult for Democrats to draw. But I do think at 139 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: the same time, and I don't think she would disagree 140 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: that Democrats need to be making the affirmative case. We 141 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: need to continue to remind people about the crisis of 142 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: abortion care in this country, which only grows worse by 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,679 Speaker 1: the day. We need to continue to remind people of 144 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:39,439 Speaker 1: the implications for our democracy of having these people continue 145 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: to not certify elections, and it's otherwise subverts elections and 146 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: suppress the right to vote. More than anything, we need 147 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: to talk about how they are trying to repeal provisions 148 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: of the Inflation Reduction Act, for example, which would actually 149 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: reduce our deficited and allow us to actually tax very 150 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: wealthy people in this country so that we can continue 151 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: to provide necessary government programs to people in me and 152 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 1: yes to lower prices such as the price of prescription drugs. 153 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: All of these things are economic initiatives that Democrats are 154 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: in favor of and that Republicans have been an active 155 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: opposition too. This is like the most Republican thing I've 156 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: ever heard. I can't remember who it was, but one 157 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: of these horrible Republican congressmen was like, we should take 158 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,959 Speaker 1: the money in the Inflation Reduction Act that's for solar 159 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: panels and use it to arm teachers. That's absurd and 160 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: I was like, but this is like the perfect Republican thing, 161 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: and I would like to talk to you for a 162 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: minute about the Thomas Massey conversation. Jamal Bowman, Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, 163 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 1: I mean that's that's actually what came to mind when 164 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: you just said there. And then of course there's there's 165 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: Tim Burchett out of Tennessee, who literally said to a reporter, 166 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: not going to fix it, right after he was asked 167 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 1: about the MAVs shooting in his home state, in his 168 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: home state of Tennessee. So these are not serious people. 169 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: When he said we're not going to fix it, put 170 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: that on a T shirt and talk about it. Now, 171 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: that's something you want to make the affirmative case. You 172 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: want to remind people of what this guy said, because 173 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: it was the most honest thing that we have heard 174 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: from Republicans in Congress. I would submit in many years. 175 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: We're not gonna fix it. So these are not people 176 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: who go to Congress and who enter public life because 177 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: they want to solve problems. These are people who at 178 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:43,599 Speaker 1: most want to maintain the status quo, if not actively 179 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: make things worse, for example by arming the same teachers 180 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: who they don't trust to select books for their children. 181 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: I know, this is an amazing bit of sorcery. They 182 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: don't trust teachers to pick books, but they do trust 183 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: teachers to carry guns. I want to ask you about that. 184 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: A screaming match, though, because what was interesting to me 185 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: was people got really mad at Jamal. The people on 186 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: the Reich got really mad at him, and they were like, 187 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: this is not the way you conduct yourself. Okay, sure 188 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: we're in Trump world. But the thing is what struck 189 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: me was here is Thomas Massey, who basically wants to 190 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,000 Speaker 1: make the government as small as possible, and drowned in 191 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: a bathtub saying that the answer is arming teachers because 192 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: they know that's the that's sort of their favorite response, 193 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 1: because they know that nobody wants that. Teachers don't want it, 194 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: Democrats don't want it, Republicans probably don't even really want it. 195 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: They just know that it's like a great throwaway line. 196 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: That's right. And you know what's remarkable about that exchange 197 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:54,719 Speaker 1: between Representative Jamal Bowman and Representative Massey is that Massey 198 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: didn't just walk out of the Capitol building as he 199 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: saw and heard the Representative Bowman yell about what had 200 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 1: happened in Tennessee and the cowardice of Republicans. He stopped, 201 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 1: he engaged him in a conversation, and I think that's 202 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: because he was triggered by the righteousness, the moral clarity 203 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: of the things that Jamal Bowman was saying in that moment, 204 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: which is that it was cowardice. It is cowardice for 205 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress not to try to fix it, not 206 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: to support an assault weapons laugh, because we have children 207 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: being murdered in school on a regular basis, and Republicans 208 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: are like me. I mean, so there's nothing funny about it. 209 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: It's horrendous. But it's so horrible that it's like almost 210 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: in some way commuder. They equate banning assault weapons like 211 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: AR fifteens, these weapons of war with taking away all 212 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: firearms that exist in American society. It is so intellectually dishonest. 213 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: We used to have an assault weapons band. It was 214 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: wildly effective from nineteen ninety four to two thousand and 215 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: four when it expired, and it is something that is 216 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: the minimum I think that Congress Cannon should do, you know, 217 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: along with universal background checks. But it's just pathetic, you know. 218 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,079 Speaker 1: Byron Donalds out of Florida saying that people are responding 219 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: emotionally to this, Well, yeah, we should all be so 220 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: outraged Byron Donalds is a new trumpy congress person who 221 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: actually comes from doesn't he come from the weapons industrial complex? 222 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: So Byron was I think in the financial services industry 223 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: as as he often brags about before he was elected 224 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: to Congress, and is you know, really positioning himself as 225 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: the one of the heir apparent heirs apparent to Donald Trump. 226 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,959 Speaker 1: I just think when people say things like this, we 227 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: ought to believe that, right. I mean, so what he 228 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: is saying is that he thinks a conversation about common 229 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: sense reforms to end gun violence in this country and 230 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 1: to stop the uniquely American problem of gun violence is 231 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: a mere emotional response. Right when Tim Burchess says we're 232 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: not going to fix it, like, we have to take 233 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:25,239 Speaker 1: what they're saying in these moments of honesty very seriously 234 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: and vote these guys out of power. And that's where 235 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: I think it's not enough for us to just sit back. 236 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: I think we have to be talking about this on 237 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: the stump, and you certainly have to talk about medicare 238 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: and so security because I think more than any policy 239 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: issue that is going to make a difference at the 240 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: polls in November twenty twenty four. And you see it 241 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: in the visceral reaction that Republicans have to the legitimate 242 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: charge that they do want to cut it. So security 243 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: and medicare being made by Democrats, right, what do they do? 244 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: The thing I really want to ask you about is 245 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: George Soros. George Soros one of the sort of most 246 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 1: I think demented talking points but really is so popular 247 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: with this group on the right, is that this idea 248 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: that somehow George Soros has caused these indictments to come 249 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: down on Trump. I am without words, this is really 250 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: sinister stuff because it is steeped in anti Semitism, which 251 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: is at this point pervasive within the Republican Party, is 252 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,920 Speaker 1: certainly among the leadership. I mean, they use words like globalists, 253 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: and they cite to George Soros in particular as really 254 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: the guy who spawns all of the liberal trouble that, 255 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: from their perspective, is being caused in this country. And 256 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: here was George Soros in an interview with Semaphore saying, actually, 257 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: I didn't donate to Alvin Craig. She knows, so you know, 258 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: we know what this is about and you know it. 259 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 1: It's the loudest people are of course, the same folks 260 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: who are out here saying that they are Jewish basic leaders, right, 261 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: and it's this is Marjorie Taylor Green and her Ill 262 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 1: even as they try to accuse some members of the 263 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: Democratic Party of anti semitiss as a Jew. It's always 264 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 1: been incredible to me that they believe Ilhan Omar is 265 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 1: an anti semit They can't tell you why, they just know, right, 266 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: Like my favorite thing to ask people, you know, I 267 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: have a lot of fancy friends who hate Elhan and 268 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: I'll say, well, why do you hate her? Oh, because 269 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,119 Speaker 1: she's an anti semit Well what's anti Semitic about her? Well? 270 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: You know, And they can never write, they can't ever 271 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 1: follow through on that because why would they. But then 272 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: you have actual anti Semitism, like real anti Semitism, like 273 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: George Soros is running the American justice system, and they're 274 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: completely silent. If anything, they're shopping the idea. Donald Trump 275 00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: literally announced his campaign by dining with Nick Flintez and 276 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: Kanye West, who I guess it recently has said that 277 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: Jonah Hill has helped him change perspective. But like, seriously, 278 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: How can you support someone like that while claiming that 279 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 1: you care about combating anti semitism as it is just 280 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 1: completely incredible stuff and quite worrying. What do you think 281 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: comes next here? I mean, we're definitely going to see 282 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: a lot of Republicans debase themselves for Trump, right. I mean, 283 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,520 Speaker 1: what do you think to the extent that Donald Trump 284 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,680 Speaker 1: is even more likely to win the Republican nomination as 285 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 1: a result of these indictments which will continue to pile up. 286 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: I think these swing district Republicans earn a lot of 287 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: trumble because it is going to be exceedingly difficult to 288 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: disassociate from that guy at the top of the ticket. 289 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: And he is even more toxic and will be even 290 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: more toxic in twenty twenty four than he was in 291 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: twenty twenty. And now they're already competing against the headwinds 292 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: that the decision to strike down Roe v. Waite by 293 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,720 Speaker 1: the far right supermajority of the Supreme Court has wrought, 294 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: as well as the salience now of their longtime project 295 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: of cutting so security and medicare at a time when 296 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: seniors need those programs more than ever because of inflation 297 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,399 Speaker 1: and everything else going on in our economy man Dare Jones. 298 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back, even though you are incredibly young. 299 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: I'm actually not so young. I'm just Greg Sergeant writes 300 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: the plumb Line blog for The Washington Post. Welcome too 301 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: Fast Politics, Greg Sargeant, Thanks for having me own another day. 302 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: Another weaponization committee explained to me what you were saying 303 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,879 Speaker 1: before we started recording. Once again, Jim Jordan floated the 304 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,440 Speaker 1: lie that will just not die, right, which is the 305 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: Democrats denied Republicans the chance to cross examine witnesses on 306 00:19:04,160 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: the January sixth committee. They've telled this lie constantly, right, 307 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: But what actually happened is the following Nancy Pelosi did 308 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: nix two out of Kevin McCarthy's five choices, one of 309 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: which was Jim Jordan. But the reason she did that 310 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 1: was because everybody knew that Jim Jordan, and I believe 311 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: it was Jim Banks, had been chosen expressly for the 312 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 1: purpose of sabotaging the very possibility of having any kind 313 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: of real January sixth accounting. A three year old could 314 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 1: see that that was what was going on. So it 315 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 1: was after that that Kevin McCarthy pulled his other three 316 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,160 Speaker 1: choices and he did this in a calculation which went 317 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,439 Speaker 1: something like this, well, okay, if there are no Republicans 318 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: on the committee, and again, Adam Kinsinger and Liz Cheney 319 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: are Republicans, but not in Republican land, right, But if 320 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: there are no Republicans on the committee who are actual Republicans, 321 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 1: then we'll be able to cast entire affair as a 322 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: partisan witch hunt against President Trump. They always call him 323 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,959 Speaker 1: President Trump, right, right, right, because in their minds, he 324 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: will always be president. He will always be president, He'll 325 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: always be President Trump. That was a disastrous miscalculation on 326 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: McCarthy's part. For one thing, it allowed Democrats to tell 327 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 1: the actual story of what happened on January sixth without 328 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: any saboteurs. And then it also didn't work. It didn't 329 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: taint the investigation in the eyes of the American public, 330 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the middle of the country. Poles 331 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: showed that people saw the charges is extremely serious and 332 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 1: so it was just a disaster, and they just keep 333 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: lying about it to this day, and it's it's just 334 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: a joke. First, let's talk about what's happening in Michigan, 335 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: where they've sort of countered an anti woke a GOP frenzy. 336 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: Michigan is such an interesting state because it's very good, 337 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: very popular, female governor, you have a female Secretary of State, 338 00:20:55,560 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: female ag they're all Democrats, and they're really working now 339 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: on the state legislature. Yeah, I mean, the big context 340 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: here is that Michigan, of course, was one of the 341 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: three Blue Wall states that Trump cracked in twenty sixteen, 342 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: in the heart of the Midwest, right in the center 343 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: of the Democratic base, in the center of the birthplace 344 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,080 Speaker 1: of labor. Michigan is often thought of as that, and 345 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: that was a huge shot to Democrats right legitimately, so 346 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,399 Speaker 1: what Trump accomplished was pretty amazing. But in twenty twenty 347 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: Biden was able to win Michigan and then in twenty 348 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: twenty two Democrats took control of the state legislature on 349 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: the governorship, so that was a real routing of Republicans 350 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 1: by Democrats. And so they're using this power now to 351 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: try and do two things right. One is to restore 352 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: a semblance of satin the on the culture war front 353 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: by passing protections against discrimination for LGBCQ and rescinding an 354 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,479 Speaker 1: old abortion band. But at the same time they're also 355 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: taking steps to strengthen labor in the state, which, as 356 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: you guys all know, has been in serious decline for 357 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: a long time. So they're in the process of repealing 358 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: right to work, which is a tremendous thing for both 359 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: labor and Democrat Can you explain what right to work 360 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: is for the few people who are not completely right 361 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: in on this, this is a vast oversimplification, but the 362 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: gist is it allows workers to free ride on the 363 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: benefits of negotiated union contracts without paying any dues. And 364 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: it's been catastrophic for organized labor. Not just it, but 365 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: it and other factors have been catastrophic for organized labor. 366 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: And so when Republicans took control of a bunch of 367 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: state legislatures in twenty ten, which as you know, is 368 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: a huge routing for the Democrats, one of the big 369 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: things they did was due these quote unquote right to 370 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: work laws in places like Michigan, Wisconsin, which are really 371 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,800 Speaker 1: in the heart of the Democratic slash labor stronghold or 372 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: work in the heart of and so that was a 373 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: tremendous blow. And so to undo that is a pretty 374 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 1: major victory and a very significant event for Democrats on labor. 375 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: You'd feel like Michigan is kind of a template. I'm 376 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: hoping that it is right. What we're seeing here is 377 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 1: that Democrats are using their power fairly aggressively to fortify 378 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: both labor and LGBTQ slash abortion rights at the same time. 379 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,639 Speaker 1: What I'm kind of hoping is that that can be 380 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: a template for crafting a kind of pro what you 381 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: might call a pro work or social liberalism that can 382 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: really counter the claim of Republicans in red states that 383 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: their reactionary agenda is somehow more in sync with working 384 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: class values than social liberalism is. If democrats can deliver 385 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: for working people economically while also defending their social values 386 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: fairly aggressively and succeed and make a lot of working 387 00:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: people feel represented, then that could be, you know, something 388 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 1: of a paradigm shift, or at least the beginnings of war. Yeah. 389 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:06,119 Speaker 1: I mean, that seems like a really important data point, 390 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: if that makes sense. Yeah, I hope so. I mean, 391 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: I think there's a long way to go before this 392 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing can really be shown to work, but 393 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: it would certainly be a bit of a game changer 394 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: if it did so. The opposite of what's happening in Michigan. 395 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,640 Speaker 1: I think is what's happening in Florida, right. I mean, 396 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 1: so we often are told to look at the contrast 397 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 1: between Rondes Sans the government of Florida and Gavin Newsom, 398 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,879 Speaker 1: the governor of California, right, and Newsom, for his own purposes, 399 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,160 Speaker 1: is very eager to play up that contrast. But as 400 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: you just pointed out at the beginning of this discussion, 401 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: Gretchen Whitmer is a very popular female governor right in 402 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: the industrial heartland. She presided over a real turnaround of 403 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party's fortunes in a swingy state. Do we 404 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: think it's a swing state? I think I think it's 405 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: a swingy state. For sure. It's swingy, right, like you know, 406 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: it's not I think people have said this before, but 407 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 1: it's not a swing state until it is a swing 408 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: state exactly, And so you know, I think in twenty 409 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 1: twenty four it could be swingy again. The better comparison, 410 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: I think, or the more interesting one, is the DeSantis 411 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: versus Whitmer comparison. Each one of them has a pair 412 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: amount of control, and each one is implementing their agenda 413 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: pretty aggressively and using their power pretty aggressively. I think 414 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,960 Speaker 1: maybe in a way, De Santis is more aggressive on 415 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: the culture war quote unquote culture warfront than Whitmer is. 416 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,440 Speaker 1: Whitmer in fairness is not she doesn't usually talk about 417 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 1: it in the terms that we're talking about, right. I 418 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: mean DeSantis is running for president, right. I mean that's 419 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: what's happening there. This is not like Whitmer is just 420 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: trying to govern a state. Right. I think that's true. 421 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: And as a result, DeSantis is trying to play to 422 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: a national ideologically charged audience in a bit of a 423 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: different way, right, because there's no world in which De 424 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,400 Speaker 1: santist is. I mean, everything he's doing is all about 425 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,880 Speaker 1: getting in front of Trump's people, right, and also showing 426 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 1: I think goop elites. As I wrote in this piece, 427 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,120 Speaker 1: I think one of the things that's going on here 428 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: with the anti woke stuff is he's trying to signal 429 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: to gop elites that he can actually capture the mega energy, 430 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: but in a way that will be less destructive and 431 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: less self destructive and counterproductive politically for the Republican park. 432 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: So a lot of these display is right. So I 433 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,480 Speaker 1: think when he goes over to Texas and scoops up 434 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,479 Speaker 1: a bunch of migrants and flies them to Florida, then 435 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: flies them to Martha's vineyard. It's kind of a wink 436 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: wink at the at the gop elite donor class as well. Right, Yeah, 437 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: for sure, he's basically saying, look, guys, the base has 438 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: kind of really lost its mind in the Trump era, 439 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,160 Speaker 1: and somebody's got to be able to say to them, 440 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,480 Speaker 1: we're delivering on your preoccupations. Well, look I can do it. 441 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: I can fly migrants all over the place, you know, 442 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: and so the bottom line will be fine, right exactly, 443 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: just explain a little bit about this book band name bill. 444 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: I mean, the thing with all these Republican bills is 445 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: they're very sloppy. So you know, like with the abortion bands. 446 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: You know, they're not clear, so the doctors don't know 447 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: who can get treatment in who can right. I think 448 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: that the vagueness is a very is a real feature 449 00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: of a lot of these quote unquote anti woke bills. Right. 450 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: One of the things that we keep seeing over and 451 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,639 Speaker 1: over is that the bills are drafted in such a 452 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: way that it's really hard for teachers and educators and 453 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: school officials to figure out exactly what's allowed and what 454 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: isn't and the result is that rather than risk running 455 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 1: a foul of the law, they actually kind of self censor. 456 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 1: And some of the savvier observers of this stuff, and 457 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: I agree with them on this, think that that's really 458 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 1: a feature of these laws, that they're deliberately designed this 459 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 1: way in order to create kind of an atmosphere of 460 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: fear and self censor. So you mentioned that the Florida 461 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: book band stuff, Well, you know, there's a there's a 462 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: there's a bill that's going through the state legislature in 463 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: Florida right now that's getting attention because it would expand 464 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,399 Speaker 1: quote unquote don't say gay, which is the limits on 465 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: classroom discussion of sex and gender identity, right. But also 466 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 1: in that bill is a thing that clarifies the way 467 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: the book bands are enforced in the following way. What 468 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,680 Speaker 1: it actually does is it makes it possible for single 469 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: parents to not just object to a book, but also 470 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 1: once a book or classroom instruction material is objected to, 471 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: it has to be removed promptly, right before any kind 472 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 1: of oversight or evaluative process unfolds to vet the objections. 473 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: So if that passes, right, what that's going to do 474 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: is it's going to make it even more inviting for 475 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: your kind of local moms, for liberty parent who's sniffing 476 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 1: how books to bend everywhere she can, to just say, here, 477 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: ban this one, ban that one, I object to this 478 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 1: that I object to that one, and they'll be pulled 479 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,760 Speaker 1: without any kind of oversight process determining whether the objections 480 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: are legitimate. It's interesting because it's like you have these 481 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: Republicans who are so they're so mad at teachers, right, 482 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,000 Speaker 1: they feel the teachers who teach too much stuff about 483 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: gay rights, that these teachers are grooming their kids, right. 484 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: But then when you have someone like Thomas Massey's screaming 485 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: at I'm sure you saw that incredible screaming match. I 486 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: did was being yelled at by Thomas Massey, and you 487 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: did absolutely think to yourself, or at least I did. 488 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 1: I thought to myself like, this is you know, Massey 489 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: was screaming, if you want to keep these children safe, 490 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 1: you should arm the teachers, which is like one of 491 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 1: republicans favorite talking points because they know that Democrats will 492 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 1: ap never armed teachers because teachers won't go for it, 493 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: and it's predict Jamal Bowman and Tom Massey. Yeah, So 494 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I mean it is one of those 495 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 1: another one of those times where they've made up, you know, 496 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: a bad faith talking point. Yeah right, I mean everything 497 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: is just about you know, not acting right. Everything is 498 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: just about encouraging the belief that, well, if there's violence, 499 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: the only answer to it can be more guns, right, 500 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: and so in almost I think you're right that they 501 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,239 Speaker 1: know that teachers won't do it. In addition to that, 502 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: they also want to further the idea that we could 503 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 1: all be safer if Democrats just would drop their opposition 504 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: to being a hyber on society, you know what I mean. Yeah, No, 505 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: it's just a completely strange bad faith what you would 506 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:54,560 Speaker 1: expect from this party with this Thomas Massey. I mean, 507 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: you watch that video. It's now really you know, viral 508 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 1: sort of smugness of Thomas Massey. I found that pretty infuriating. 509 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: But that's kind of how Republicans feel about these gun crimes, right, 510 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,760 Speaker 1: which part of it, there's sort of smugness like if 511 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: you want a solution, let's arm the teachers. Like, you know, 512 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: they're not really interested in having a discourse with Democrats. 513 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: They're pretty damn pleasing themselves for all the victories they've 514 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: had on quote unquote gun rights right, and everybody talks 515 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: about those pictures of some of these Republican congressmen with 516 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: their families, all of them holding ars or whatever, and 517 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 1: they do look awfully smug. No one's going to take 518 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: that ar from my four year old. You know, I'm 519 00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 1: being a little glid. They're not literal, but that's sort 520 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,360 Speaker 1: of what the vibe actually is. I mean, it's just awful. 521 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: It's such an insulting way to talk to the country 522 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: when it experiences these types of traumas. It's just a 523 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: way of saying, you know, well, okay, this is pretty bad, 524 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: but it could always be worse, and we'll high rights. 525 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,120 Speaker 1: And they're also saying, well, you know this is this 526 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:07,320 Speaker 1: is pretty bad, but you know we're kind of winning here, right, 527 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,720 Speaker 1: We're getting our way, and you, you know, you hysterical 528 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: liberals are losing so tough. Greg Sargent, thank you so much, 529 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Cameron Joseph is a senior political reporter. Guys, welcome, 530 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: too fast Politics. Cameron Joseph, we are talking about Trump's 531 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: favorite extreme think tank. But then we're going to talk 532 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: about something else. But first, this is super interesting because 533 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: the Claremont Institute. I hesitate to use the phrase the 534 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: brains behind Trump is um because it feels like an oxymoron, 535 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: but it is kind of true, absolutely, And you know, 536 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: these are not dumb guys, especially, I mean, there's multiple 537 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: people at the Claremont Institute, and I think you kind 538 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,920 Speaker 1: of have to at some level evaluate them one by 539 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: want in terms of both fealty to the actual constitution 540 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: and intelligence. But they're smart folks who think a lot 541 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: about years. Some of them at least think a lot 542 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: about Founding and the American Founding and have read a 543 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,320 Speaker 1: lot of the traditional documents. Really kind of gave Trumpism 544 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: a intellectual and ideological form in some ways, took the 545 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: id of Trump and charted it into something coherent, or 546 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: at least put it into a co current system of 547 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: right wing conservatism, and you know, the Founding and Jacksonian 548 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: principles and all of these things, and did a lot 549 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 1: of work to try and make Trump palatable and acceptable 550 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: on the right early on before he was president, and 551 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, kind of swear his populist urges with traditional 552 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 1: conservative viewpoint and before a lot of other conservatives were 553 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: willing to bear hug him. Really embraced them, and it 554 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they're like books. There's an old school 555 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: of the Claremont Institute that's very conservative but kind of 556 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: more not as fascist, I mean, like thumbsuckery, traditional traditionalist. 557 00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: They come out of the Strausseeans School and the Straussians. Yes, 558 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: continue on going. Yeah, I'm sure everybody here is very 559 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 1: familiar with Leil Strauss and Harry Joffler, the guy who 560 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: my college kid goes to a great book school where 561 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 1: they're obsessed with straus Anyway, continue sorry, Yeah, the teal 562 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,359 Speaker 1: the r here is they were a pretty normy conservative, 563 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: very conservative but pretty not out there think tank for 564 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: many decades. And you know, the guy who founded it 565 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: was very goldwater speech writer, and you know a lot 566 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: of the fastors who wrote there were, you know, kind 567 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: of across the spectrum of conservatism. Would write for the 568 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 1: Claremont Review of Books, including a couple of my old profts. 569 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 1: There's a Claremont Institute and then a bunch of those 570 00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,720 Speaker 1: guys teach at Claremont McKennitt College, which is a separate, 571 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: unaffiliated institution, which is where I happened to have gotten 572 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: to school. And you know, if you're writing there, you're conservative, 573 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: but there were a lot of different perspectives of conservatism. 574 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,320 Speaker 1: And then what happened was around twenty fourteen, Harry Jaffa, 575 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 1: I think it was twenty fourteen, Harry Jaffa died, and 576 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: there's this kind of new class of much further right, 577 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: much less happy warrior mentality guys who came in and frankly, 578 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:29,319 Speaker 1: they're almost all guys, and started pushing this and in 579 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: a pretty wild new direction. And it just happened to 580 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 1: coincide with the time that President Trump was becoming President Trump. 581 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: And one of the senior fellows there, you might actually 582 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: recognize the guy's name, Michael Anton, wrote this essay that 583 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: everyone talks about is kind of the tipping point of 584 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: the claimants too, because it turned off some of the 585 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: old folks so much that some of the older contributors 586 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: stopped pubeting. People kind of were like a little seized 587 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,880 Speaker 1: out by it. Frankly, man, it made a ton of 588 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: news and attracted a new cohort of much further rights 589 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: kindness to some scary types. And the essay was called 590 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: you might remember, called the Flight ninety three election, where 591 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: he literally compared the choice between Hillary Clinton and Donald 592 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:20,120 Speaker 1: Trump to the choice facing the folks during nine to eleven, 593 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: and the opening mind would charge the cockpit or you die. 594 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: The idea like, maybe Trump isn't great in every way, 595 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: but we're going to lose our country to the crazy 596 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: liberal progressive leftists who wanted to destroy the country and 597 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: this horde of immigrants they want to bring in was 598 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,399 Speaker 1: intently trust to this argument, right, an absolutely insane, insane 599 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: thing to say in every way shape in form. Yeah, 600 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: So he wrote this essay. It went viral, which was 601 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: unusual for the Clarmonts too, because exactly a very well 602 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: known group outside of conservative Republican circles and Russia. Limball 603 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: read it the entire essay on air. It had been 604 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,839 Speaker 1: an anonymous but Anton quickly claimed ownership of it, and 605 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:07,600 Speaker 1: then Trump put him on the National Security Council as 606 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: soon as he was in office, and so Anton didn't 607 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 1: last a super long time there, but he kind of 608 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,840 Speaker 1: became this much bigger influencer on the right and claremont Insito, 609 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, that became a bit of a little feeding 610 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: ground for the Trump administration and a couple of the folks, 611 00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 1: including Michael Pack, who used to be the president of 612 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: the Claremont Institute was very close with Steve Bannon, wound 613 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,120 Speaker 1: up running the division that controls Radio Free Europe and 614 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 1: all of those things and basically tried to turn them 615 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: into propaganda arms. And then they have these fellowships, these 616 00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:47,760 Speaker 1: week long like learn about classical texts and learn about 617 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: how Lincoln thought of the founding and how that fits 618 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: in with modern conservatism and all that. These training programs, 619 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: these week followed programs, and it's kind of a you know, 620 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: a right of passage for conservatives on over the last 621 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,040 Speaker 1: few decades, and they started picking much further out there 622 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 1: guys for this, like Jack Sobiak, like the guy behind 623 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,439 Speaker 1: you and so. But a lot of those guys wound 624 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 1: up working in the Trump administration. So how did this 625 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: group decide that they no longer want Trump and want 626 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: to Sandis instead. So it's interesting because they are kind 627 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: of we're like, Okay, Trump is usful, we think that 628 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,439 Speaker 1: he's helpful, we think he has the right instinct. We're 629 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 1: going to try and help him get this ideology in 630 00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: format this out so that this is more programmatic and effective. 631 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,640 Speaker 1: And you know, they thought very hard. At the end 632 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,399 Speaker 1: of the Trump administration, John Eastman is the other guy 633 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,880 Speaker 1: you might actually know from the Parana. It was the 634 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: architect of the legal argument and legal strategy to try 635 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,759 Speaker 1: and help Trump's coup efforts, and he was one of 636 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: the guys who spoke on January sixth on stage alongside 637 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani. He was in the war room with Trump 638 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: guys trying to overturn get Congress to block the certification 639 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480 Speaker 1: of Biden's win. On January sixth, during the riot, he 640 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: had a very angry exchange with Pence's guy, who basically said, 641 00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: this is your fault, and he responded, no, this is 642 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: your fault for not going along with our plot. Basically paraphrasing, 643 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:18,240 Speaker 1: but that's what he was saying, and has continued to 644 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: push this stuff. So they're super in the bag for Trump, 645 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: and so it's really interesting to see over the last 646 00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,839 Speaker 1: couple of months especially, but it's been building for over 647 00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: a year now. A lot of these clear monsters, and 648 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: that's what they like to call them, Clear monsters, have 649 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: embraced the Santists and the most visible obvious example of 650 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:41,320 Speaker 1: this was, for the first time in the group's forty 651 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,719 Speaker 1: three year history, opened a borough basically like a little 652 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: office in Tallahassee and the Santis ruled out the red carpet. 653 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: He and his wife, Casey, who is also his closest 654 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: confidant and political advisor, met with them and was at 655 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: this meeting with Anton and with Ryan Williams, the head 656 00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:03,720 Speaker 1: of the organization, and Arthur Millick, who heads their DC office, 657 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,280 Speaker 1: and Sky Jenner, who's the new head of the Tallahassee office, 658 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 1: and old time. Sure will get intimately into some of 659 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: the interesting things he's had to say a little bit. 660 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: But they had a big meeting with them in February, 661 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: and DeSantis has since had Yanner on a panel going 662 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:25,239 Speaker 1: after a diversity, equity and inclusion basically using him as 663 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: like an academic vouching for why you need to get 664 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 1: rid of the EI in public schools. They also have 665 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: had I don't know if you've heard about that this 666 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,879 Speaker 1: little liberal arts school that they've done a hostile takeover down. 667 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,160 Speaker 1: Yeah new College. Yeah, so the new College. They came 668 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,200 Speaker 1: in and they basically got rid of most of the 669 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: board at this tiny school that is a pretty good school. 670 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,360 Speaker 1: It's got some issues, but the academics are pretty solid 671 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,759 Speaker 1: there and very liberal student population. So explain the thinking here. 672 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,239 Speaker 1: Do we think the thinking is they just decided Trump 673 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: couldn't win, so they moved on. Yeah, there's different folks there, 674 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,840 Speaker 1: and some of them that's a rationale on reasoning is 675 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,680 Speaker 1: like Trump lost and that's bad. Some folks there still 676 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: think Trump won and had it stolen from him. But 677 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: I think that the common thread here is that they 678 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: like a fury from Trump, but they like that DeSantis 679 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 1: takes that and puts it in ideological frame. And you know, 680 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 1: DeSantis has been quoting one of the old thermout scholars 681 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: for years, Angelo Codevilla, who died shortly after the last 682 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: election after basically arguing that Ashley Babbitt you shouldn't have 683 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: been killed him as murder during January six. But there's 684 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,000 Speaker 1: an ideological kinship here. And you know, you can't really 685 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 1: say that Trump is an ideological anything. He doesn't happen 686 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 1: that type of ability to actually think through things comprehensively 687 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: in the thing. Wait, they see an eager kinship here. 688 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,600 Speaker 1: I mean that this is a bit of a bromance 689 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,919 Speaker 1: between DeSantis and the Claremont Institute because frankly, they see 690 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:07,320 Speaker 1: things pretty similarly and the threat of wokeism that de 691 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: Santist is always talking about and how he likes to 692 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 1: talk about how Florida's where Woke Goes to Die is 693 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: very much in the clare Line Institute's wheelhouse. And you know, 694 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,440 Speaker 1: they both think that Black Lives Matter is this totalitarian 695 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,399 Speaker 1: threat that is going to destroy the country. And they 696 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: think that the sixteen nineteen project with the New York 697 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 1: Times is a fundamental threat to American patriotism and full 698 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: boot lies and misrepresentations, and they really see it as 699 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:41,200 Speaker 1: an existential threat. And Tom Klingenstein is the big money 700 00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,680 Speaker 1: man behind the claremontits too. It's also the heads of 701 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:47,160 Speaker 1: Order Directors likes to call it the Cold Civil War. 702 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,320 Speaker 1: So give me a little bit of a sense here 703 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,440 Speaker 1: of what is happening with DeSantis now. So he has 704 00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: this Claremont Institute backing, which I guess will equal more money. 705 00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,279 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't right, I mean, what is the 706 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 1: relevancy of this? I mean, Trump's space is Trump's space. 707 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,280 Speaker 1: They don't care if the elites go with the Santis. 708 00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,919 Speaker 1: I'm not sure that makes any difference to them. Well, 709 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,319 Speaker 1: I think that there's different wrinkles here, and I think 710 00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: to Santis's best argument, and you know, Obviously he's got 711 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,799 Speaker 1: some flaws as a candidate. He's not exactly great on 712 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: the stump or in talking to actual human beings, whether 713 00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: they reporter. Isn't that sort of what candidates are supposed 714 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,719 Speaker 1: to be good at? But yes, continue, yes, I mean 715 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,560 Speaker 1: the biggest selling points for the Santis is a he 716 00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: just wanted a landside. It be how he wanted a landslide, 717 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,240 Speaker 1: and what we used to be a swing state while 718 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,360 Speaker 1: pushing the state super hard to the right. Clairmont insite folks, 719 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,360 Speaker 1: what they're so enamored with and what they want to 720 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: help them go further in is this right wing project 721 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: like to talk about how the states are laboratories for 722 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,600 Speaker 1: democracy that old quote, and this is kind of de 723 00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: Santis is attempting a laboratory of illiberal democracy and right 724 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,279 Speaker 1: and they're involve all been helping it, you know, in 725 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,800 Speaker 1: small ways with Charles Kustlers, professor at CMC and also 726 00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: you know, a head of Clarmount Review of Books, one 727 00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,520 Speaker 1: of the publications is now on the board at New 728 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: College along with two other Claremont affiliated guys. Three of 729 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,000 Speaker 1: the six appointees had some Claremont ties and they're you know, 730 00:44:19,239 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: doing this hostile takeover new college that Castler also recorded 731 00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,600 Speaker 1: some lectures for this new Civics program that the Santists 732 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:31,759 Speaker 1: is designing for the state of Florida. Basically like this 733 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: is how you should look at America and it's going 734 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: to be in K twelve public education. And then you 735 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,680 Speaker 1: know they're they're taking bigger swings in terms of changing 736 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: the law around basically getting rid of the EI programs 737 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 1: at college. It right diversity inclusion. Talk to me a 738 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: little bit about this other story you did about de 739 00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,160 Speaker 1: Santists getting some of Ted Cruise's people. Yeah, look Ted 740 00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: Cruise and run The Santa's have a couple of things. 741 00:44:55,560 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: They both are unpleasant and not appealing their eyes, whose 742 00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: personalities may limit them as candidates, but they have huge 743 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:08,520 Speaker 1: appeal with I knew obtific conservatives who don't love Trump. 744 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,640 Speaker 1: Ted Cruz was limited by Ted Cruz in the last campaign, 745 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,680 Speaker 1: and part of the reason that he was not the 746 00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 1: GOP nominee was what you just said. He's not exactly 747 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,240 Speaker 1: the most likable guy, but his team was really good. 748 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:23,799 Speaker 1: And the reason that Ted Cruz mattered as much as 749 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,200 Speaker 1: he did and managed to win a bunch of these 750 00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:30,600 Speaker 1: Caucus states when Trump was dominating in other elections was 751 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,719 Speaker 1: because his organization was really good and the head of 752 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: oat organization was Jeff Row, and Frow, his campaign manager, 753 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: just went to run the superpack supporting De Santis and 754 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,399 Speaker 1: brought in a bunch of former Cruise guys, including David 755 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: Polanski who has really deep iowatized, really good data and 756 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,880 Speaker 1: digital guy, including Chris Wilson, pulling the Atlantics guy from 757 00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: the Cruise campaign. These were frankly the best folks in 758 00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: the primary and kept Ted Cruze competitive and tie where frankly, 759 00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,719 Speaker 1: he didn't necessarily deserve to be that competitive because he 760 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: wasn't that great at candidate at times, and built some 761 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,759 Speaker 1: of the networks that they needed to win voters and 762 00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,160 Speaker 1: organized Trump in some of these states where you could 763 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: do that in caucuses rather than primaries where it was, 764 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,040 Speaker 1: you know, kind of more culti personality driven. And so 765 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,359 Speaker 1: them going to De Santa's win, I think that they're 766 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 1: going to be blocked off a little bit because they're 767 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: on the superpackground in the campaign side. But it's interesting 768 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,320 Speaker 1: and it's not just that you know that the first 769 00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:30,080 Speaker 1: congressman to endorse Ron De Santis and he's not even 770 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,200 Speaker 1: in the race yet is Chip Roy who I talked 771 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,760 Speaker 1: to about this, and Chip is Ted Cruz's former chief 772 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:38,920 Speaker 1: of staff, and you know, if you want to go 773 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,880 Speaker 1: way back, Chip was really instrumental in when Ted Cruz 774 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:46,319 Speaker 1: and House Republicans shut down the government to try and 775 00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:48,440 Speaker 1: get rid of a Philbamacare. Chip was the guy basically 776 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,880 Speaker 1: running the show during that. So they're very close, and 777 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,440 Speaker 1: so Chip's endorsement is interesting. There. Ken Cucinelli, who's the 778 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,359 Speaker 1: former Attorney General of Virginia, big mucky muck in the 779 00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:03,480 Speaker 1: anti immigration and conservative religious space, lost a race for 780 00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 1: governor of Virginia, was a huge time Cruise endorser last 781 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,919 Speaker 1: time around. He is heading this organization along with Rowe 782 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,080 Speaker 1: and Mike Lee, who hasn't actually endorsed yet, but you know, 783 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 1: was helped Kushnelli lead the floor fight against Trump during 784 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,719 Speaker 1: the Republican National Convention in sixteen. They obviously lost. It 785 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,600 Speaker 1: was very embarrassing first day for Trump at his own convention. 786 00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:27,280 Speaker 1: Was at recent to Santis fundraising of that down Florida, 787 00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: And so you start seeing this kind of ideological kinship 788 00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: with the folk on the right who resisted Trump in sixteen, 789 00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:37,680 Speaker 1: most of whom fell in line and did a lot 790 00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,080 Speaker 1: of things to back the dear Leader during his presidency. 791 00:47:41,560 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: Are pulling away into Santis as the guy now fascinating. 792 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Cam. I hope you'll come back. Yeah, 793 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 1: I hope that was useful in that too. Rambley Milly 794 00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:05,320 Speaker 1: jugged Fast, Jesse Cannon, No Texas, I'm no Labels. They're 795 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: up to some serious fuckery right now. Tell us all 796 00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:12,480 Speaker 1: about it. So No Labels is a group started by 797 00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:17,520 Speaker 1: Nancy Josephson and Mark Penn, maybe because Mark Penn is 798 00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:21,400 Speaker 1: very mad at the Clintons for them not doing what 799 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: he wanted. I don't know. He has some kind of 800 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:29,640 Speaker 1: fight with the Clintons, and they are working on getting 801 00:48:29,640 --> 00:48:33,320 Speaker 1: on the ballot in all of these states that Biden 802 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,319 Speaker 1: won so they can deliver the election to Trump. They 803 00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,120 Speaker 1: are saying that it's because the American people desperately want 804 00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 1: Joe Mansion, but that's not really true. They really know 805 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,040 Speaker 1: that if there's another reasonable candidate, it will divide the 806 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,799 Speaker 1: vote and Donald Trump will win the election. So if 807 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:51,760 Speaker 1: you're a Republican and you give to No Labels, maybe 808 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,719 Speaker 1: that makes sense. But if you're a Democrat and you're 809 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,719 Speaker 1: involved in no labels. It's time to take a long, 810 00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: hard look at yourselves because these people are really really 811 00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:05,320 Speaker 1: they deserve that moment of fuckery and everything else. That's 812 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,600 Speaker 1: it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, 813 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,600 Speaker 1: and Friday to your the best minds in politics makes 814 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,919 Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoyed what you've heard, 815 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going. 816 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,280 Speaker 1: And again, thanks for listening.