WEBVTT - S3E8: National Hangover

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, it's your host ed helms.

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<v Speaker 2>Here.

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<v Speaker 1>Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to remind you that my brand new book is coming

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<v Speaker 1>out on April twenty ninth. It's called Snaffo, The Definitive

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<v Speaker 1>Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups, and you can pre

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<v Speaker 1>order it right now at snaffoodashbook dot com. Trust me,

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<v Speaker 1>if you like this show, you're gonna love this book.

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<v Speaker 1>It's got all the wild disasters spectacular face plants we

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<v Speaker 1>just couldn't squeeze into this podcast. And here's the kicker.

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<v Speaker 1>I am also going on tour to celebrate that's right.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm coming to New York, DC, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago,

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<v Speaker 1>San Francisco, and my hometown Los Angeles. So if you've

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<v Speaker 1>ever wanted to see me stumble through a live Q

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<v Speaker 1>and A or dramatically read about a kiddie cat getting

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<v Speaker 1>turned into a CIA operative, now's your chance again. Head

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<v Speaker 1>to snaffoo dashbook dot com to pre order the book

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<v Speaker 1>and check out all the tour details in day, or

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<v Speaker 1>just click the link in the show notes. That'll work too. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>that's it, on with the chaos. This is Snaffoo Season

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<v Speaker 1>three formula six previously on Snaffoo, Norris and Gettler finally

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<v Speaker 1>got the nation's attention.

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<v Speaker 3>You have the chief medical examiner of one of the

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<v Speaker 3>most important American cities accusing the federal government of a

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<v Speaker 3>planned program of extermination.

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<v Speaker 1>The DRIs tried to shrug it off. You can't poison poison,

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<v Speaker 1>but the backlash sent Mabel Walker Willebrandt packing. Hoover had

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<v Speaker 1>no use for her any longer.

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<v Speaker 2>She was kind of an irrelevancy.

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<v Speaker 1>Support for prohibition was on the ropes only when possessing

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<v Speaker 1>the instincts of a wild beast would desire to kill

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<v Speaker 1>or make blind the man who takes a drink of liquor.

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<v Speaker 1>James Duran, Prohibition Commissioner, is seated at a long table.

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<v Speaker 1>Spread Out around him are accounting documents, charts, lists of

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<v Speaker 1>warehouses across the country where industrial alcohol is stored. He's

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<v Speaker 1>flanked by his staff. He's been pulled into a Congressional

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<v Speaker 1>budget hearing for nineteen thirty. It ain't the c SPAN era,

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<v Speaker 1>but you can practically see the sweat steaming up Duran's

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<v Speaker 1>round glasses. Stories have been swirling in the press about

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<v Speaker 1>the Bureau's violence, its corruption, its cruel and casual approach

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<v Speaker 1>to mass poisoning, which means that when Duran sits down

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about funding his agency, he finds himself in

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<v Speaker 1>a defensive posture. Part Way through, the congressman from New York,

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<v Speaker 1>deliciously named mister Robert Bacon, decides to make Duran answer

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<v Speaker 1>the kinds of questions he usually ducks.

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<v Speaker 4>You will recall fall there were a number of deaths

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<v Speaker 4>in New York City due to wood alcohol poisoning.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Sir Bacon presses him on whether or not the

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<v Speaker 1>people in New York were killed by his formulas, the

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<v Speaker 1>ones that pumped lethal toxins into the industrial alcohol supply.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, did he sacrifice these people on the

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<v Speaker 1>altar of prohibition. Let me just say personally, I love

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<v Speaker 1>this moment. It's like, yeah, we're finally going to get

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<v Speaker 1>it all from the horse's mouth. I know we're back

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineteen twenties, but the drama of this moment

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<v Speaker 1>it's what I love about history. It's why we do

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<v Speaker 1>this damn podcast. As Deborah Blum says, the last.

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<v Speaker 3>Thing you want is for your people to be called

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<v Speaker 3>murdering chemas in a congressional hearing.

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<v Speaker 1>So true, Deborah, with the screws finally being put to Duran.

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<v Speaker 1>Would citizens finally get answers for the deaths of their

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<v Speaker 1>loved ones? Would Duran, or anyone else for that matter,

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<v Speaker 1>finally be held accountable for the Treasury Department's deadly poisoning scheme.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm at Helms and this is Snaffo, a show about

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<v Speaker 1>history's greatest screw ups. This is season three, the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Formula six. How prohibitions war on alcohol went so

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<v Speaker 1>off the rails the government wound up poisoning its own people.

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<v Speaker 1>In our final episode, James Durand faces a reckoning, first

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<v Speaker 1>in Congress and then for his career. Along the way,

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<v Speaker 1>his Prohibition boys finally catch George Cassidy, But that slippery

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<v Speaker 1>George has one more trick up its sleeve. As the

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<v Speaker 1>Great Depression pushes Prohibition off center stage, Charles Norris and

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<v Speaker 1>Alexander get takes stock, and so do we. In the

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<v Speaker 1>US Senate mailroom, a new clerk is sorting the day's

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<v Speaker 1>incoming letters. It's the spring of nineteen thirty, another election year.

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<v Speaker 1>There's plenty of mail flying in and out as senators

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<v Speaker 1>coordinate their campaigns. But this new clerk can't stay focused

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<v Speaker 1>on his work. He keeps looking up, watching the flow

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<v Speaker 1>of people coming into the building. He's got his eyes

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<v Speaker 1>peeled for one thing in particular. He's looking for a

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<v Speaker 1>green hat. He's looking for George Cassidy, as George's son says.

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<v Speaker 2>So this guy had it out for dad and he

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<v Speaker 2>wanted on bad.

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<v Speaker 1>The clerk job. It's a ruse, just a cover. The

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<v Speaker 1>guy's name is Roger Butts, and he's a young prohibition

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<v Speaker 1>agent on his first big assignment. He's just twenty years old,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's been specially assigned to catch and I quote,

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<v Speaker 1>the man in the green hat. You gotta admit your

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<v Speaker 1>brand is strong when even the haters are using your handle.

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<v Speaker 1>Duran's Prohibition Bureau is making one final play to bring

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<v Speaker 1>him down. The mailroom charade goes on for a while,

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<v Speaker 1>but just scanning government offices for suspicious behavior isn't getting

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<v Speaker 1>him anywhere. So Butts gets off his duff and takes action.

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<v Speaker 1>He starts asking around, say, do you know if.

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<v Speaker 5>There's fella called the man in the green hat. I'm

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<v Speaker 5>trying to get something for the holidays, to make a

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<v Speaker 5>little whoopie yep.

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<v Speaker 1>According to his own testimony, Butts is and I quote

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<v Speaker 1>in search of some whiopie, one of those W words

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<v Speaker 1>spelled with an H. I love those whiskey while what ever.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone eventually obliges and introduces Butts to Cassidy. Two days

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<v Speaker 1>later in the Senate stationary room, Butts squares George up

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<v Speaker 1>and determines he matches the physical description he was given

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<v Speaker 1>by the Prohibition Bureau. But on this day, Cassidy isn't

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<v Speaker 1>supporting his typical green hat. He's dressed to the nines

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<v Speaker 1>in a blue suit, but his hat is damn What

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<v Speaker 1>a tricksteh. So Butts orders a fifth of gin. They

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<v Speaker 1>shake hands, but Cassidy doesn't fall for the trap. Rather

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<v Speaker 1>than deliver it to Butts personally, he passes the bottle

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<v Speaker 1>off through a third party. No evidence, no gotcha. Butts

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<v Speaker 1>tries again and again, but round after round, Cassidy is

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<v Speaker 1>just a little too slick for him.

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<v Speaker 5>Since Cassidy knew the House office building better than the

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<v Speaker 5>agents did and understood the Senate's side, it was mighty

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<v Speaker 5>hot to mislead him.

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<v Speaker 1>Finally, Butts decides he needs to take a different approach.

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<v Speaker 1>He corners a staffer for a senator he knows as

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<v Speaker 1>a customer of Cassidys, and he reveals he's an undercover agent.

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<v Speaker 5>The man was not surprised. He said he had been

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<v Speaker 5>suspicious of me for some time.

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<v Speaker 1>Suspicious or no. The man agreed to help Butts make

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<v Speaker 1>the arrest. The staffer calls Cassidy to place in order,

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<v Speaker 1>and George drives out to the parking lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>Senate Building to make the drop.

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<v Speaker 6>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if George let his guard down or what.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe this particular staffer was a regular someone he trusted.

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<v Speaker 1>Regardless to George, it was just a normal day. As

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<v Speaker 1>his son Fred says.

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<v Speaker 2>He would have parked someplace close by.

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<v Speaker 1>When suddenly prohibition officers surround his car. They grab him,

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<v Speaker 1>pull him out. They popped the trunk and rummaged through

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<v Speaker 1>his vehicle.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he was going in and he nabbed him.

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<v Speaker 1>I think we can all see Butts smugs smile right.

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<v Speaker 1>All that hard work is finally paying off. He got

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<v Speaker 1>his man. But that smile fades because George is smart.

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<v Speaker 1>No bottles on him, no liquor in the car. A

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<v Speaker 1>trailing vehicle tries to pull away, and the prohibition agents

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<v Speaker 1>realize Cassidy is leading a two car caravan, the liquors

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<v Speaker 1>in the car behind him. Agents spring away from Cassidy

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<v Speaker 1>to stop the second car. I imagine it from George's perspective.

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<v Speaker 1>Pushed onto the hood of his car, officers grabbing his wrists.

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<v Speaker 1>He's got to be hoping his accomplice can shift into

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<v Speaker 1>reverse and peel out of there. But Butts and the

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<v Speaker 1>other agents are too quick. The second driver can't maneuver.

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<v Speaker 1>He stopped and dragged out. The search that follows turns

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<v Speaker 1>up a mother load.

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<v Speaker 2>He probably had, you know, half a dozen or more

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<v Speaker 2>suitcases in the car.

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<v Speaker 1>Butts says they nabbed at least six fifths of gin.

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<v Speaker 1>George's mind must have been racing as Butts popped open

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<v Speaker 1>the suitcases and counts the bottles. Was this finally it?

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<v Speaker 5>For him?

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<v Speaker 1>His wife at home? What would she do if he

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<v Speaker 1>was in the slammer? Maybe he hoped he could skate

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<v Speaker 1>by because of his two car plan. He's got deniability, right.

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<v Speaker 1>They can't pin the liquor on him. But with the

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<v Speaker 1>liquor in hand, Butts and the other agents turn their

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<v Speaker 1>attention to George. When they go through his pockets, they

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<v Speaker 1>pull out something even more incriminating than a hip flask.

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<v Speaker 1>They get their hands on the key to his whole operation.

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<v Speaker 1>A little black book. It's George's client list. It seems

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<v Speaker 1>like many extra legal entrepreneurs before him. George took notes

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<v Speaker 1>on his criminal enterprise, and it's clear from his ledger

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<v Speaker 1>he's been bootlegging in Congress for a decade. The case

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<v Speaker 1>was a slam dunk for butts in the bureau. When

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<v Speaker 1>George went to trial, he found he was facing a

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<v Speaker 1>year and a half in jail. That was bad enough,

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<v Speaker 1>but then something else really got his dander up. As

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<v Speaker 1>the court's decision came down, they ruled it was not

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<v Speaker 1>a punishable crime for his m customers to purchase alcohol.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, while George was taking the fall, every

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<v Speaker 1>gen guzzling senator preaching the good word of prohibition was

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<v Speaker 1>effectively immune from charges. The law wasn't going to lay

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<v Speaker 1>a finger on them.

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<v Speaker 2>It was just a matter trying to catch them in

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<v Speaker 2>such a way that it doesn't implicate high ups.

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<v Speaker 1>So George decided, if the courts weren't going to give

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<v Speaker 1>his sanctimonious customers their due, he would do it himself.

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<v Speaker 7>Doctor Duran, are you familiar with the amendment providing that

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<v Speaker 7>no industrial alcohol should be denatured by any material injurious

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<v Speaker 7>to the human system, Yes, sir.

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<v Speaker 1>Back In his budget hearing turned culture war interrogation, James

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<v Speaker 1>Durant is fending off charges that he's been diabolically poisoning

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<v Speaker 1>American drinkers and cackling behind his spindly fingers. Robert Bacon,

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<v Speaker 1>the New York congressman asking the questions, wants to force

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<v Speaker 1>Duran to admit mass poisoning through the denaturing program. But

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<v Speaker 1>it's not just about that. He's trying to attack prohibition itself.

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<v Speaker 1>So Bacon brings up a case where drinkers in upstate

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<v Speaker 1>New York had tapped into a vat of methanol and

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<v Speaker 1>dropped dead. He points the finger at Duran. This is you,

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<v Speaker 1>This is your fault. These people died because of prohibition.

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<v Speaker 1>Duran deflects, you will.

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<v Speaker 4>Recall this fall, there were a number of deaths in

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<v Speaker 4>New York City due to wood alcohol poisoning.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, Sir, Bacon's convinced these deaths came from industrial denaturants.

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<v Speaker 1>Duran counters that the wood alcohol could have come from anywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>These deaths by methanol aren't on him. In fact, since

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<v Speaker 1>he's facing a Congress from New York. He pulls in

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<v Speaker 1>the testimony of one famous New Yorker as evidence for

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<v Speaker 1>his side. He brings in analysis from Alexander Gettler.

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<v Speaker 8>The toxicologist of the City of New York, testified that

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<v Speaker 8>the autopsies showed that pure wood alcohol only was found

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<v Speaker 8>in the brain cells of the people who had died.

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<v Speaker 8>It had no relation to the National Prohibition Act.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, this moment is, for lack of a better word,

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<v Speaker 1>bananas because, as we know, if it weren't for prohibition,

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<v Speaker 1>no one would be breaking into industrial warehouses to drink

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<v Speaker 1>after shape ingredients. They could just walk down to the

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<v Speaker 1>liquor store on the corner and pick up some gin.

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<v Speaker 1>For Duran to say deaths like this had quote no

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<v Speaker 1>relation to the National Prohibition Act, it's just well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>an insult to anyone's basic intelligence.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, Is he a trustworthy source, No, he's not

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<v Speaker 3>a trustworthy source.

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<v Speaker 1>To be clear, it's true in the case of these

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<v Speaker 1>particular methanol deaths that Get's analysis showed they were killed

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<v Speaker 1>by pure wood alcohol, not wood alcohol that was mixed

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<v Speaker 1>into liquor. But Duran is using Getler's judgment of this

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<v Speaker 1>one case to deflect from Norris and Gettler's bigger analysis

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<v Speaker 1>that prohibition was causing people to turn to denatured alcohol

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<v Speaker 1>and that it was poisoning them. And by the way,

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<v Speaker 1>James Duran knows what he's doing. See behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>After the Christmas poisonings in nineteen twenty six, Duran must

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<v Speaker 1>have gotten a little nervous. Could those deaths actually be

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:35.680
<v Speaker 1>his fault? He wrote directly to the New York Health

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Commissioner and asked for the city's data on the deaths.

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:42.400
<v Speaker 1>The commission wrote back, it is my belief that some

0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 1>of these deaths were due to methanol or other substances

0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:50.800
<v Speaker 1>employed to denature alcohol. So Duran had it right there,

0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:53.560
<v Speaker 1>in black and white. The New York Health Commissioner made

0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:58.960
<v Speaker 1>the damning connection denaturing alcohol was killing people. But back

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.080
<v Speaker 1>in the present, now sitting in front of Congress, Duran

0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.440
<v Speaker 1>has the audacity to tell the committee that Gettler's work

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:10.640
<v Speaker 1>exonerated him. It was a bold strategy. But then Duran

0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:12.280
<v Speaker 1>was never going to just roll over.

0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.560
<v Speaker 3>He's clearly defending their policies and saying, no, this wasn't us.

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:20.440
<v Speaker 3>My reaction is that's exactly what I would say if

0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.400
<v Speaker 3>I was James Duran, which is deny all responsibility and

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:24.240
<v Speaker 3>wash his hands.

0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.320
<v Speaker 1>I hate to be the bearer of bad news here,

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:36.680
<v Speaker 1>but this is a show about screw ups. Duran's gambit worked. Deny, evade, deflect.

0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>It's an old playbook, and Duran was a natural. It

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.080
<v Speaker 1>was practically a reflex for him.

0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:44.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is not going to be a confessional moment.

0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.680
<v Speaker 1>And here's the real downer representative Bacon. He backed down.

0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.800
<v Speaker 1>He asked a raft of questions, but at the key

0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.720
<v Speaker 1>moment when he could have asked some you know, follow ups,

0:15:55.960 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 1>he just kind of wilted. The hearing moved on. Just

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.480
<v Speaker 1>imagine Duran wiping his forehead with a silk hanky and

0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 1>allowing himself a sly satisfied smile. No handcuffs, no trial,

0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:11.360
<v Speaker 1>just a little chit chat behind closed doors and a

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.160
<v Speaker 1>slick set of lies, and he was home free. I mean,

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>that's so fracking insane. Do all the stuff we've talked about,

0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:25.200
<v Speaker 1>hurt and poison and kill so many people and just

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>walk away. The Prohibition Bureau was well aware that people

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>were getting injured, even dying from drinking industrial chemicals. They

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.320
<v Speaker 1>knew the system in place to manage those chemicals was

0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:40.360
<v Speaker 1>porous and corrupt. They knew it was getting out into

0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:44.880
<v Speaker 1>bootleg liquor. They knew that denaturing industrial alcohol was not

0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 1>deterring people, and in fact, it was just killing them.

0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.120
<v Speaker 1>The indifference to all of those deaths by Duran and

0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 1>the Dries in Congress was negligent at best. Personally, I'd

0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.680
<v Speaker 1>go for cruel, reckless, and rooted in a callous disregard

0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:07.919
<v Speaker 1>for human life. But even if Duran was able to

0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.119
<v Speaker 1>smoothly lie his way out of this one moment of

0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:15.960
<v Speaker 1>congressional accountability, not everyone was so easily fooled. Duran might

0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:19.120
<v Speaker 1>deny the link, but after the public outcry from Norris

0:17:19.160 --> 0:17:23.159
<v Speaker 1>and Getler's report, the American public was finally connecting the

0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:27.840
<v Speaker 1>dots between national prohibition and people dying in their own

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:35.159
<v Speaker 1>towns and neighborhoods. And in nineteen thirty they got a

0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.480
<v Speaker 1>little more affirmation from a bootlegger in a green hat,

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 1>George Cassidy. As his case wound through the legal system,

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.320
<v Speaker 1>George made a connection a reporter at the Washington Post.

0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.959
<v Speaker 1>I imagine him chatting with folks as he walked in

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>and out of the courtroom. George was a colorful character,

0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.600
<v Speaker 1>and this was a high profile bust. Some newshound was

0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:06.000
<v Speaker 1>bound to catch him on a potty break. So that

0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.439
<v Speaker 1>meant when the verdict came down and he was going

0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.159
<v Speaker 1>to take the fall and no one else was going

0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:15.119
<v Speaker 1>to pay any price at all, George knew exactly what

0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:19.159
<v Speaker 1>to do. He was ready to tell his story. So,

0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.800
<v Speaker 1>as Garrett Peck says, he gave the Post their first

0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:24.840
<v Speaker 1>scoop of the century.

0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.840
<v Speaker 9>At this point, a really great newspaper at the time

0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.080
<v Speaker 9>as the Evening Star, and the Post is just this

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:33.639
<v Speaker 9>small arrival of the city, kind of a gossip newspaper.

0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:36.400
<v Speaker 9>But they get this great scoop, and they asked Cassidy

0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:39.560
<v Speaker 9>to spill the beans on Congress and he writes six

0:18:40.119 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 9>front page articles.

0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:45.720
<v Speaker 1>That's right, six front page articles each morning. People around

0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>the country waited with baited breath for the next installment

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.320
<v Speaker 1>of Old George's expose to land on newsstands. Will somebody

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:55.520
<v Speaker 1>please arrest me for bootlegging so I can get that

0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:59.120
<v Speaker 1>kind of press anyway, Three weeks before people were set

0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.560
<v Speaker 1>to cast their ballots in the nineteen thirty midterms, a

0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:08.120
<v Speaker 1>bombshell landed that made voters reconsider witchbox to check extra

0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:09.720
<v Speaker 1>extra Read all about it.

0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.320
<v Speaker 6>The government's hypocrisy on prohibition.

0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:16.240
<v Speaker 1>Exposed On October twenty third, nineteen thirty, George wrote, I.

0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.680
<v Speaker 10>Saw a side of prohibition no one else has seen.

0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 10>I would say that four out of five Senators and

0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.560
<v Speaker 10>Congressmen consume liquor, either at their offices or their homes.

0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:26.919
<v Speaker 10>This is a conservative estimate.

0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:29.160
<v Speaker 1>October twenty fourth, we would have a.

0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.199
<v Speaker 10>Few rounds of drinks, sing a few songs, and have

0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.680
<v Speaker 10>a general good time. And on the twenty fifth busiest day,

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:36.480
<v Speaker 10>I have a put into the House office build and

0:19:36.520 --> 0:19:39.680
<v Speaker 10>I made forty seven calls on customers kept me hustling

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:41.680
<v Speaker 10>from the time the offices opened at three o'clock in

0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.600
<v Speaker 10>the morning until well along in the evening. On occasions,

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.280
<v Speaker 10>I've heard members of the House and Senate making strong

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.480
<v Speaker 10>arguments on the floor the prohibition was being well enforced

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:54.879
<v Speaker 10>when I knew good stuff was being regularly delivered at

0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.000
<v Speaker 10>their own offices.

0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.080
<v Speaker 9>The Washington Post was a wet newspaper, and they knew

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.000
<v Speaker 9>exactly what they were doing, which was to embarrass the

0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:03.040
<v Speaker 9>dry cause.

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.439
<v Speaker 1>What's black and white and wet all over? Yeah, a

0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:12.280
<v Speaker 1>wet newspaper doesn't sound particularly threatening, but with this story,

0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:15.720
<v Speaker 1>they were torching the dryes. It goes national.

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.159
<v Speaker 9>Other newspapers around the country are all reporting on this.

0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:21.639
<v Speaker 1>This is a scandal, a good old DC scandal that

0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 1>couldn't have been more perfectly timed if you were a

0:20:25.080 --> 0:20:28.160
<v Speaker 1>wet and gunning to kick prohibition to the curb.

0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 9>The last one of them was published one week before

0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:32.720
<v Speaker 9>the midterm election in nineteen thirty.

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 10>You can't blame these men for taking the same means

0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.920
<v Speaker 10>of refreshment and relaxation other people enjoy. If there's any

0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.760
<v Speaker 10>difference between members of Congress and other people in their

0:20:41.800 --> 0:20:44.520
<v Speaker 10>personal habits and tastes, I didn't see it in ten

0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 10>years In and about Congress.

0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:50.719
<v Speaker 1>As Fred Cassidy says, they didn't take any prisoners, and

0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 1>neither did The Washington Post. They followed the George Cassidy

0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.640
<v Speaker 1>stories with another series from Butts himself, with headlines like.

0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:02.560
<v Speaker 10>Prohibition in the Senate, Cassidy's arrest and caesarre of black

0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:04.879
<v Speaker 10>book Bear five bucks.

0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, they definitely went for the Bear Butts thing, and

0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.720
<v Speaker 1>God bless them for it. But of course, exposing the

0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:15.639
<v Speaker 1>hypocrisy of the dries wasn't the only factor in the election,

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.840
<v Speaker 1>because in nineteen twenty nine it was.

0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.119
<v Speaker 5>Panic sixteen and a half million shares of stock sold

0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 5>in a single day at any price.

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:30.199
<v Speaker 1>That frenzy set a wrecking ball through the economy.

0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 9>You have the collapse of the stock market, signaling the

0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.399
<v Speaker 9>Great Depression. People are really getting cynical at this point.

0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:40.080
<v Speaker 9>Who's just the worst economic catastrophe in our nation's history

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 9>is absoutely unreal. And the Democrats seized on this. They're like, look,

0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:47.639
<v Speaker 9>let's create jobs again, alcohol, let's do it. You know,

0:21:48.320 --> 0:21:50.280
<v Speaker 9>you know, Cassidy had done a huge amount of damage

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.520
<v Speaker 9>here to the drys and people were all just like,

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:54.760
<v Speaker 9>we're done with this. Let's let's elect some wets and

0:21:54.800 --> 0:21:56.359
<v Speaker 9>let's end this thing because it's not working.

0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:00.760
<v Speaker 1>That November, the wets flooded the House, going from seventy

0:22:00.760 --> 0:22:03.879
<v Speaker 1>six seats to one hundred and forty six. Republican states

0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.920
<v Speaker 1>like Ohio and Illinois and Kansas flung aside dry Republicans

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 1>for wet Democrats. As for the man who helped push

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:15.000
<v Speaker 1>the title wave, George Cassidy was behind bars, locked away,

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>serving his time, well sort of.

0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.160
<v Speaker 2>According to my mother and Hill, he never spent one

0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:22.200
<v Speaker 2>full night in jail.

0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.120
<v Speaker 9>He's sitting around, play with a ward and to play

0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:25.000
<v Speaker 9>poker and whatnot.

0:22:25.680 --> 0:22:28.320
<v Speaker 1>He was handed an eighteen month sentence at a jail

0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:30.920
<v Speaker 1>about two blocks away from his house on Capitol Hill.

0:22:31.119 --> 0:22:33.119
<v Speaker 2>So you go get dressed up in the morning, go

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.800
<v Speaker 2>into the jail, sign and go do his work in

0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.880
<v Speaker 2>the jail. After his shift was over, he'd come back

0:22:39.000 --> 0:22:39.760
<v Speaker 2>sign out.

0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:41.840
<v Speaker 9>So they let him go home every night.

0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

0:22:42.680 --> 0:22:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, the old George remas treatment a jail term fit

0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.359
<v Speaker 1>for a king, King of the bootleggers, at least.

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.320
<v Speaker 9>As part of Cassie's Lee agreement. He tells the judge

0:22:52.359 --> 0:22:54.920
<v Speaker 9>he will stop bootlegging. And by the way, I got

0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 9>his FBI folder, he did not stop bootlegging.

0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.120
<v Speaker 1>And remember Cassidy's little black book, replete with the contact

0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.359
<v Speaker 1>information of each and every one of his customers, every

0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.840
<v Speaker 1>politician who secretly solicited bootlegged liquor. While the Treasury Department

0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:12.960
<v Speaker 1>got their hands on that little book, James Duran and

0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.200
<v Speaker 1>his bosses, So what did they do with this comprehensive

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:19.920
<v Speaker 1>list of every fat cat and hypocrite in Washington? Did

0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>Duran sneak into their offices and drip methanol into their whiskies. Well,

0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:27.960
<v Speaker 1>of course not. But at least they cracked down on them, right,

0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:33.120
<v Speaker 1>not a chance. In fact, they did the exact opposite.

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Every photocopied record of Cassidy's client list was tossed into

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.439
<v Speaker 1>a fire and burned. If George Cassidy got the treatment

0:23:40.480 --> 0:23:43.560
<v Speaker 1>of a king, then the members of Congress were I

0:23:43.600 --> 0:23:48.760
<v Speaker 1>don't know emperors. The point is, even when it's clear

0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.960
<v Speaker 1>and emperor has no clothes, in the American old boy

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.399
<v Speaker 1>crony system, he can always count on a James Duran

0:23:55.520 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 1>to cover his ass. After the nineteen thirties midterms, prohibition

0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:07.080
<v Speaker 1>was really on the ropes. Alexander Getler and Charles Norris

0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 1>have spelled out the failures of the Prohibition Bureau's denaturing program.

0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Cassidy exposed the dry politicians for what they were, hypocrites

0:24:16.280 --> 0:24:21.200
<v Speaker 1>getting sloshed. James Durand's crew, having failed miserably in their

0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.400
<v Speaker 1>poisoning campaign, were totally flailing.

0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 3>The strategy at the federal government was that we're running

0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:30.960
<v Speaker 3>out of chemical options, Let's try everything.

0:24:32.680 --> 0:24:36.920
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen thirty one, Duran's chemists rolled out another new

0:24:37.040 --> 0:24:39.359
<v Speaker 1>formula for denaturing alcohol.

0:24:39.640 --> 0:24:45.280
<v Speaker 3>Formula fifty nine B. Okay, now we've tried fifty eight.

0:24:45.760 --> 0:24:48.360
<v Speaker 3>Maybe there was a fifty eight A. But there were

0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:52.000
<v Speaker 3>dozens of these formulas, each with a different number, each

0:24:52.119 --> 0:24:57.240
<v Speaker 3>with a different mix of things. This whole panorama of

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:01.640
<v Speaker 3>industrial chemistry gets thrown at the wall in this period,

0:25:04.119 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 3>and then they kind of give up.

0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:08.840
<v Speaker 1>It was like the government's heart just wasn't in the

0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:12.880
<v Speaker 1>whole mass poisoning thing anymore. There were no more incendiary

0:25:12.920 --> 0:25:17.359
<v Speaker 1>newspaper stories about new deadly formulas. Prohibition Bureau officials, the

0:25:17.400 --> 0:25:21.399
<v Speaker 1>Treasury Department, they all simply quit talking about it. They

0:25:21.440 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 1>started quietly backing away from the crime scene with a

0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:28.000
<v Speaker 1>nothing to see here shrug, as if the killing of

0:25:28.040 --> 0:25:34.359
<v Speaker 1>thousands of Americans never happened. Deborah spent years combing through

0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>reports from newspapers, medical examiners, insurance companies, and coroner offices

0:25:39.560 --> 0:25:42.919
<v Speaker 1>and came to her best estimate on the final body count.

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:47.159
<v Speaker 3>I added up all the numbers to about ten thousand deaths.

0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:49.800
<v Speaker 3>That number is the best estimate that I could come

0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:52.320
<v Speaker 3>up with for every report I could find from that

0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:56.480
<v Speaker 3>period in the nineteen twenties. What the actual number is

0:25:57.119 --> 0:26:00.560
<v Speaker 3>I don't know. I think it's higher, but don't have

0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:02.520
<v Speaker 3>that evidence, and I'm not sure anyone does.

0:26:04.000 --> 0:26:08.000
<v Speaker 1>In the early nineteen thirties, support for the dry cause crumbled.

0:26:08.600 --> 0:26:12.240
<v Speaker 1>The violence of liquor raids played apart. If you're keeping track,

0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.640
<v Speaker 1>that's Richard Hart and the other agents like him. Corruption

0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.480
<v Speaker 1>at every level of enforcement played a part. Two big

0:26:18.520 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 1>thanks to George Cassidy for dragging that one out into

0:26:21.080 --> 0:26:24.760
<v Speaker 1>the open, and the outrage over the poisoning scheme that

0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:28.560
<v Speaker 1>was a body blow to the support for prohibition. Gettler's

0:26:28.600 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 1>research in Norris's Essay exposed just how callous, how morally

0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>indefensible prohibition enforcement had become by the time nineteen thirty

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:43.160
<v Speaker 1>two rolled around. Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Democratic candidate for president,

0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:47.840
<v Speaker 1>declared that if elected, on day one of his presidency taps,

0:26:48.000 --> 0:26:50.119
<v Speaker 1>we're going to be wide open once again.

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:53.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, candidate once for apeal.

0:26:56.800 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 10>And I am confident that the United States America want.

0:27:01.520 --> 0:27:02.000
<v Speaker 11>For a pail.

0:27:04.280 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 1>You hear that one guy hollering, I love that guy.

0:27:08.040 --> 0:27:10.199
<v Speaker 1>If my beer mug had been sitting empty in the

0:27:10.280 --> 0:27:13.800
<v Speaker 1>cabinet for ten years, yeah, I'd be voting for that too.

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:18.840
<v Speaker 4>From this date on the eight ain't Amendment's doom. I

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:25.240
<v Speaker 4>pledge myself go a new deal for the American paper.

0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:32.520
<v Speaker 1>On election night nineteen thirty two, Roosevelt won in a landslide.

0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:39.560
<v Speaker 1>All you again, bum ugly again. As he addressed the nation,

0:27:39.680 --> 0:27:42.280
<v Speaker 1>the banner behind him was adorned with his campaign slogan,

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:46.440
<v Speaker 1>happy days are here again. The American people had spoken.

0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:51.920
<v Speaker 1>It was closing time on prohibition. The drinkers in Congress

0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>rushed to pass the twenty first Amendment.

0:27:54.400 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 9>It goes right from Congress right to the states for ratification.

0:27:57.760 --> 0:28:00.680
<v Speaker 9>The first aid that ratifies it is the crowd state

0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:04.600
<v Speaker 9>of Michigan, an excellent beer state. I might add the

0:28:04.640 --> 0:28:08.600
<v Speaker 9>Prohibition Amendment. The eighteenth Amendment took thirteen months to ratify.

0:28:09.040 --> 0:28:12.119
<v Speaker 9>The twenty first Amendment. The repeal Amendment took eight months,

0:28:12.560 --> 0:28:15.200
<v Speaker 9>one state after the next. It's just like dominoes. The

0:28:15.200 --> 0:28:16.719
<v Speaker 9>ell just fell bop.

0:28:16.800 --> 0:28:20.359
<v Speaker 1>The champagne brewers could brew again, bars could serve again,

0:28:20.800 --> 0:28:23.720
<v Speaker 1>and that means everything's going back to normal.

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Right.

0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:31.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, No, Prohibition had been an extremely violent mess. It

0:28:31.359 --> 0:28:34.240
<v Speaker 1>had changed the American way of life. It hadn't stopped

0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:38.640
<v Speaker 1>the drinking, but it had driven it underground, created black markets,

0:28:38.840 --> 0:28:44.200
<v Speaker 1>destroyed legitimate businesses, the pre prohibition saloons, those immigrant living

0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:47.600
<v Speaker 1>rooms at the heart of working class neighborhoods. They never

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 1>really came back. And of course the real cost was

0:28:51.720 --> 0:28:57.840
<v Speaker 1>in human lives people. So many people had been hurt

0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:01.720
<v Speaker 1>and killed along the way. So you're probably wondering the

0:29:01.760 --> 0:29:05.320
<v Speaker 1>same thing I'd been wondering the whole time. Was anyone

0:29:05.440 --> 0:29:09.320
<v Speaker 1>actually going to answer for all of that? The boys

0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:14.080
<v Speaker 1>in Washington already knew exactly who to pin the blame on,

0:29:14.960 --> 0:29:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Mabel Walker wille Brandt. As time went on, they made

0:29:19.200 --> 0:29:23.000
<v Speaker 1>her the figurehead of everything that went wrong with Prohibition enforcement.

0:29:23.520 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 1>During her time as Assistant Attorney General. She had been

0:29:26.680 --> 0:29:29.680
<v Speaker 1>the face of the law, even swapping burns with Al

0:29:29.720 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 1>Smith on the campaign trail. Right, Not that we gotta

0:29:32.600 --> 0:29:35.240
<v Speaker 1>feel sorry for her after everything she did, I mean,

0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:38.040
<v Speaker 1>she gave a thumbs up to the KKK. You can't

0:29:38.080 --> 0:29:41.520
<v Speaker 1>just brush right past that. But by pinning it all

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 1>on her, they made Mabel escapegoat for the worst abuses

0:29:45.840 --> 0:29:49.280
<v Speaker 1>of the Prohibition Bureau. All of the blood spilled, the

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.920
<v Speaker 1>whole pile of corpses they got dumped at Mabel's feet.

0:29:53.520 --> 0:30:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Prohibition Porsche her fault by making Mabel Walker win Lebrant

0:30:00.960 --> 0:30:06.640
<v Speaker 1>the fall gal. Everybody else got off scot free. Take

0:30:06.720 --> 0:30:10.080
<v Speaker 1>Duran himself. He weaseled out of accountability for the way

0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:13.240
<v Speaker 1>he ran the Prohibition Bureau and covered up for Congress.

0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Then he stepped down as commissioner in nineteen thirty and

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:20.840
<v Speaker 1>went back behind the scenes. Behind the scenes position was

0:30:20.960 --> 0:30:28.200
<v Speaker 1>drum roll please, Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol. Remember how the

0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Prohibition Bureau got shifted over to the Department of Justice

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:34.400
<v Speaker 1>once Mabel was gone. Well, it was part of a

0:30:34.400 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 1>big show by Congress to make it look like they

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:41.400
<v Speaker 1>were really changing things now. They passed the Prohibition Reorganization Act.

0:30:41.920 --> 0:30:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Not only did it send prohibition policing over to the DOJ,

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>but in its place, the Treasury established a new bureau,

0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:52.960
<v Speaker 1>the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol. Duran was the new bureau's

0:30:53.120 --> 0:30:57.080
<v Speaker 1>first employee. Once a commissioner, always a commissioner, I guess.

0:30:57.600 --> 0:31:01.200
<v Speaker 1>In other words, with Duran having burned Cassidy's black Book,

0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:05.960
<v Speaker 1>essentially covering Congress's ass, none of those guys we're gonna

0:31:05.960 --> 0:31:09.320
<v Speaker 1>come after, Duran. But one year into the new job,

0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 1>that's definitely not the same as the old job, Duran

0:31:12.320 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 1>published his first annual report. It's big news. He's finally

0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:19.920
<v Speaker 1>reversing course on the whole denaturing thing.

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:24.680
<v Speaker 8>The Bureau adapted a new policy on January first, nineteen

0:31:24.760 --> 0:31:28.400
<v Speaker 8>thirty one. It eliminated the use of wood alcohol. He

0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 8>revoked completely denatured alcohol Formula number one and replaced wood

0:31:32.560 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 8>alcohol with a new non toxic dnature and developed after

0:31:36.720 --> 0:31:38.400
<v Speaker 8>several months of intense research.

0:31:40.160 --> 0:31:43.920
<v Speaker 1>And sadly, that's as close as we get to an admission.

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>It's like, yeah, the wood alcohol we were using was bad.

0:31:47.360 --> 0:31:50.680
<v Speaker 1>It killed people, but we're stopping all that and oh look,

0:31:50.920 --> 0:31:53.320
<v Speaker 1>check it out. It turns out we can actually come

0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 1>up with a non toxic way of denaturing industrial alcohol.

0:31:56.360 --> 0:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Who knew? Not sure? I really trust the guy after

0:31:59.800 --> 0:32:03.520
<v Speaker 1>you know everything, and now he's got a pass. He's

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:05.920
<v Speaker 1>just passing the word along. Don't worry all that little

0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:11.160
<v Speaker 1>poisoning snafoo, that won't happen again. To add one more

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:15.120
<v Speaker 1>olive to this already extremely dirty martini of a career,

0:32:15.680 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 1>I bet you can guess what Duran did when liquor

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:23.600
<v Speaker 1>became legal again. He became a lobbyist for the country's

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:28.920
<v Speaker 1>biggest distillers, and he set out to fight against government

0:32:29.000 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 1>regulation of alcohol. God damn, I mean you remember his

0:32:34.200 --> 0:32:36.920
<v Speaker 1>wife was a member of the Women's Christian Temperance Union.

0:32:37.480 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 1>She was the one who wrote that book saying it

0:32:39.640 --> 0:32:43.160
<v Speaker 1>was bad to even cook with alcohol. I'm dying to

0:32:43.240 --> 0:32:45.840
<v Speaker 1>know what she thought when old honeymun turned around and

0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:49.800
<v Speaker 1>started chilling for big liquor. And he wasn't the only one,

0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:53.200
<v Speaker 1>which brings us, for one last time back to Mabel

0:32:53.240 --> 0:32:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Walker will le Brandt. We left her falling off the

0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 1>tightrope in Washington, but let's just say she was also

0:33:01.200 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 1>able to make a nice soft landing because, as Terry

0:33:04.400 --> 0:33:07.440
<v Speaker 1>Winter says, when prohibition ended, she went to work for

0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:12.640
<v Speaker 1>a wine company. It is like, yeah, these people. In fact,

0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:15.360
<v Speaker 1>what makes it even crazier is that Mabel started working

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:20.440
<v Speaker 1>for this wine company before prohibition ended. I mean, does anyone,

0:33:21.000 --> 0:33:25.040
<v Speaker 1>anyone have a single atom of genuine conviction. It's just

0:33:25.160 --> 0:33:29.000
<v Speaker 1>also cynical. Not that Mabel made that her life's work either.

0:33:29.400 --> 0:33:32.600
<v Speaker 1>She kept climbing from position to position. Eventually she became

0:33:32.640 --> 0:33:36.200
<v Speaker 1>a lawyer for two other interesting industries, the airlines and

0:33:36.680 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 1>oh wait, what's this the movies. Hey, that's what I do. Also,

0:33:42.560 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>I got to say It's a little ironic that, of

0:33:44.480 --> 0:33:47.600
<v Speaker 1>all the people to comment on what went wrong with prohibition,

0:33:48.000 --> 0:33:51.000
<v Speaker 1>it may have been Mabel herself who put it best.

0:33:51.560 --> 0:33:54.760
<v Speaker 11>The violence which has accompanied enforcement of the prohibition law

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.200
<v Speaker 11>has done more than anything else to instill in the

0:33:57.240 --> 0:34:01.160
<v Speaker 11>public mind the question and the doubt can prohibition ever

0:34:01.240 --> 0:34:05.360
<v Speaker 11>be enforced? Is it worth the price in human life?

0:34:06.080 --> 0:34:10.719
<v Speaker 1>Adios Mabel. It wasn't all your fault. That wasn't not

0:34:11.080 --> 0:34:11.640
<v Speaker 1>your fault.

0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:22.000
<v Speaker 3>Prohibition was a huge mistake in all kinds of ways.

0:34:22.239 --> 0:34:25.440
<v Speaker 3>What I hope is that we actually learned from the mistake.

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:30.640
<v Speaker 3>I hope that understanding our history will add something to

0:34:30.960 --> 0:34:33.320
<v Speaker 3>the idea that we're not going to repeat the mistakes

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:33.960
<v Speaker 3>of the past.

0:34:36.960 --> 0:34:40.120
<v Speaker 1>It started as a moral crusade as a minority of

0:34:40.200 --> 0:34:44.279
<v Speaker 1>hardliners fought to remake American life in their own squeaky

0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:48.279
<v Speaker 1>clean image. A powerful political lobby turned it into a

0:34:48.280 --> 0:34:52.520
<v Speaker 1>wedge issue. Congress made it a crime. It was a

0:34:52.560 --> 0:34:56.080
<v Speaker 1>culture war that made it all the way to the Constitution.

0:34:58.880 --> 0:35:00.960
<v Speaker 1>Does all of this feel a bit familiar to you?

0:35:01.680 --> 0:35:05.440
<v Speaker 1>It should, because it's basically the world we still live

0:35:05.520 --> 0:35:09.040
<v Speaker 1>in today. Our political system is set up so that

0:35:09.160 --> 0:35:13.880
<v Speaker 1>certain people benefit from nasty, unending political fights for starters

0:35:13.960 --> 0:35:15.960
<v Speaker 1>take well lobbyists.

0:35:16.840 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 12>The term lobbyist actually comes from the fact that they

0:35:19.560 --> 0:35:21.840
<v Speaker 12>would come and they would wait in the lobby outside

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:24.920
<v Speaker 12>the chamber, and so they were the lobbyists who would

0:35:25.160 --> 0:35:27.000
<v Speaker 12>stay there in the lobby and speak to the needs

0:35:27.000 --> 0:35:28.640
<v Speaker 12>of the constituents, which.

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Was a real service. That's my friend Josh Graham Lynn.

0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:36.319
<v Speaker 1>He directs a bipartisan anti corruption organization called represent Us

0:35:36.719 --> 0:35:39.640
<v Speaker 1>and Full Disclosure. I do some work with them too.

0:35:39.840 --> 0:35:43.200
<v Speaker 12>But what's ended up happening is there's nothing really preventing

0:35:43.239 --> 0:35:46.680
<v Speaker 12>lobbyists from taking congress people out to dinner, or hey,

0:35:46.719 --> 0:35:50.000
<v Speaker 12>you want to borrow my jet, or even worse, Hey

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:52.120
<v Speaker 12>you've done a great job in Congress, and when you leave,

0:35:52.160 --> 0:35:54.640
<v Speaker 12>you should come work for my lobbying firm. We can

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.160
<v Speaker 12>offer you ten million dollars a year. It's called the

0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:00.680
<v Speaker 12>revolving door. And it's a huge problem.

0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Look no further than Mabel Walker, Willebrandt and James Duran

0:36:04.840 --> 0:36:07.640
<v Speaker 1>to see that this was a huge problem during prohibition.

0:36:08.200 --> 0:36:10.800
<v Speaker 1>To hear more about how it's still a problem today.

0:36:10.960 --> 0:36:13.680
<v Speaker 1>Keep an ear out for our bonus episode with Josh

0:36:13.719 --> 0:36:18.560
<v Speaker 1>coming very soon, and this revolving door for lobbyists. It's

0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:21.680
<v Speaker 1>just one of a number of systemic problems in the

0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:23.440
<v Speaker 1>way our government functions.

0:36:24.200 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 12>Most of the American people want common sense solutions that

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:30.239
<v Speaker 12>are best for the most of us, and instead what

0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:34.879
<v Speaker 12>we get are ideological, hot button divisive rhetoric and then

0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:38.080
<v Speaker 12>divisive policy getting passed. And part of the reason for

0:36:38.160 --> 0:36:40.920
<v Speaker 12>that is that it's actually better for those in power.

0:36:41.440 --> 0:36:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Most people in the nineteen twenties didn't want prohibition. Sure,

0:36:45.480 --> 0:36:48.480
<v Speaker 1>maybe they knew alcohol could hurt people, but they also

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.880
<v Speaker 1>had a sense that banning it outright was probably not

0:36:52.080 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the most sensible solution.

0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:56.120
<v Speaker 12>The laws that get passed and the way the government

0:36:56.160 --> 0:36:59.719
<v Speaker 12>operates is actually wildly out of step with what most

0:36:59.719 --> 0:37:02.840
<v Speaker 12>of us would consider reasonable or common sense, because it

0:37:02.840 --> 0:37:04.840
<v Speaker 12>doesn't get people fired up, it's not hot button, it

0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:06.160
<v Speaker 12>doesn't fuel the culture war.

0:37:07.080 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 1>But as the historian Paul Thompson says, people have to

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:12.520
<v Speaker 1>be internally persuaded of a reform.

0:37:12.880 --> 0:37:15.120
<v Speaker 12>Law is not how you change people's minds.

0:37:15.239 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 9>You know, if there's no willpower, you don't write a

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:19.480
<v Speaker 9>lot of band something that's just stupid.

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:21.200
<v Speaker 6>It's just a mess.

0:37:21.600 --> 0:37:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Well said Paul. Let me reiterate that law is not

0:37:26.000 --> 0:37:29.120
<v Speaker 1>how you change people's minds. I mean, think about the

0:37:29.160 --> 0:37:33.080
<v Speaker 1>prohibitions we still live with today, bans on abortion, bands

0:37:33.080 --> 0:37:36.520
<v Speaker 1>on weed. We've only just overturned the ban on gay marriage.

0:37:36.600 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Since the nineteen twenties, when the Temperance movement played on

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:43.400
<v Speaker 1>racist fears and gave guns to domestic terrorists. It feels

0:37:43.440 --> 0:37:46.160
<v Speaker 1>like we've been caught in one culture war after another.

0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:50.200
<v Speaker 1>When lobbyists get those issues written into law, we end

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:53.920
<v Speaker 1>up enforcing moral codes with some kind of kindergarten justice.

0:37:55.040 --> 0:37:57.319
<v Speaker 1>But setting off a culture war is like taking a

0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:01.239
<v Speaker 1>jackhammer to the foundations of your own house. It just

0:38:01.400 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 1>might bring your entire home crashing down around you. November

0:38:18.120 --> 0:38:21.600
<v Speaker 1>nineteen thirty three, New York City, the Waldorf Astoria is

0:38:21.600 --> 0:38:24.520
<v Speaker 1>putting the finishing touches on three new bars, one of

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.240
<v Speaker 1>them with blue and gold columns and a mirrored ceiling,

0:38:27.680 --> 0:38:31.640
<v Speaker 1>is the jewel of the city. The Hotel New Yorker

0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:34.760
<v Speaker 1>has purchased one hundred thousand dollars worth of top shelf

0:38:34.800 --> 0:38:37.720
<v Speaker 1>whiskey and is building out a new basement wine cellar

0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:42.000
<v Speaker 1>to house the world's finest wines. All anyone knew anymore

0:38:42.120 --> 0:38:45.120
<v Speaker 1>was bath dub Jen The waiters at Lewis Sherry's on

0:38:45.160 --> 0:38:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Park Avenue relearn the appropriate wines for each course. A

0:38:49.000 --> 0:38:52.279
<v Speaker 1>hardy barolo with your steak, maybe a Chardonnay with your

0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:56.560
<v Speaker 1>chicken cordon bleue. Requests for liquor licenses filed at New

0:38:56.640 --> 0:38:58.600
<v Speaker 1>York City Hall are coming in at a rate of

0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:02.120
<v Speaker 1>one thousand a day. At Bloomingdale's on the Upper east Side,

0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:04.480
<v Speaker 1>the line snakes out the door and around the corner,

0:39:04.920 --> 0:39:07.640
<v Speaker 1>customers waiting for doors to open so they can snatch

0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:11.200
<v Speaker 1>up bottles of imported scotch and wine. As for Charles

0:39:11.239 --> 0:39:14.480
<v Speaker 1>Norris Well, the end of prohibition is in sight, but

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.520
<v Speaker 1>he's still got plenty of work to do. He travels

0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:21.719
<v Speaker 1>through New York, the waterfront, the Bowery, collecting data and

0:39:21.760 --> 0:39:25.440
<v Speaker 1>writing down his observations for his annual report. The city

0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:28.800
<v Speaker 1>is still far from perfect. The Great Depression now brings

0:39:28.800 --> 0:39:31.200
<v Speaker 1>its own litany of suffering to the people around him,

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 1>but the destructive wake of prohibition is finally dissipating. As

0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:40.040
<v Speaker 1>he passes the Gothic edifice of Bellevue, it's hard not

0:39:40.120 --> 0:39:43.400
<v Speaker 1>to remember the worst days of the poisonings, when the

0:39:43.440 --> 0:39:46.480
<v Speaker 1>hospital was surrounded by bodies.

0:39:46.640 --> 0:39:49.560
<v Speaker 3>Bellvue is close to the river. They would stack the

0:39:49.640 --> 0:39:53.600
<v Speaker 3>bodies up on piers behind the hospital. Sometimes when there

0:39:53.719 --> 0:39:57.320
<v Speaker 3>was a catastrophe, some kind of multiple fatality thing, the

0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:00.759
<v Speaker 3>bodies went to Bellevue. And there are actually the newspaper

0:40:00.800 --> 0:40:03.560
<v Speaker 3>reports of the time where bodies were really stacked up.

0:40:04.800 --> 0:40:09.000
<v Speaker 1>That was the thick of prohibition. But now the peers

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:09.680
<v Speaker 1>are clear.

0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:18.080
<v Speaker 3>He's thinking, in this city, this imperfect, amazing city, is

0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:22.279
<v Speaker 3>coming back to what it should be. People see him

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:25.960
<v Speaker 3>walking away in the dusk with this feeling of a

0:40:26.040 --> 0:40:34.520
<v Speaker 3>job done.

0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.560
<v Speaker 1>Nineteen thirty three, Utah becomes the thirty sixth state to

0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:44.239
<v Speaker 1>ratify the twenty first Amendment that seals it Prohibition is overturned.

0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 1>In New York, Bellevue Hospital makes an announcement, to little fanfare,

0:40:49.560 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the formation of a new department, forensic Medicine. It's the

0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:56.560
<v Speaker 1>first of its kind in the country. The head of

0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:59.040
<v Speaker 1>the department will be Charles Norris and the head of

0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:03.760
<v Speaker 1>toxicology Alexander Getler. In the next chapter of his career,

0:41:03.840 --> 0:41:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Norris loved the stage and the microphone, relishing his position

0:41:07.760 --> 0:41:11.239
<v Speaker 1>as the face of public service. Meanwhile, Getler continued to

0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 1>live out his days a private man in a public job.

0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:16.279
<v Speaker 1>He was offered a chance to do a TV show

0:41:16.280 --> 0:41:21.080
<v Speaker 1>on forensics CSI before CSI, but that wasn't his style.

0:41:21.520 --> 0:41:24.239
<v Speaker 1>He kept his head down and he worked hard, but

0:41:24.560 --> 0:41:29.000
<v Speaker 1>he still couldn't avoid controversy altogether. In fact, according to

0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:32.319
<v Speaker 1>his grandson al the family still remembers that one time

0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:36.080
<v Speaker 1>Gettler's wife, Alice, dropped by the courtroom to see Getler

0:41:36.120 --> 0:41:36.520
<v Speaker 1>in action.

0:41:37.400 --> 0:41:40.840
<v Speaker 13>My grandmother never went to the courtroom, and because he

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.200
<v Speaker 13>was always in there testifying, and she went there once

0:41:44.239 --> 0:41:47.120
<v Speaker 13>and the jury found the defend and guilty for murder.

0:41:47.560 --> 0:41:49.440
<v Speaker 13>He said, if I ever get out and the two people,

0:41:49.440 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 13>I'm going to go get you know, the DA and

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 13>that son of a bitch Gettler.

0:41:53.480 --> 0:41:55.080
<v Speaker 1>So after that she went.

0:41:55.320 --> 0:41:56.880
<v Speaker 13>She never went to another court case.

0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:00.839
<v Speaker 1>That threat brought home the gravity of Gettler's work to

0:42:00.880 --> 0:42:04.719
<v Speaker 1>his family, but to Alexander, that was the cost of

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<v Speaker 1>doing work that really mattered. After Prohibition, even more new

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<v Speaker 1>poisons were entering daily life. Leaded gasoline, the newly discovered

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<v Speaker 1>in highly toxic element thallium, sold as a rat poison,

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<v Speaker 1>but so dangerous it was eventually banned. Not to mention

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<v Speaker 1>an old poison in the air, whose danger was just

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<v Speaker 1>starting to emerge cigarette smoke. Alexander worked against all of

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<v Speaker 1>these poisons, and in fact, Getler is still celebrated today

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<v Speaker 1>by the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. They give an

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<v Speaker 1>award in his name to toxicologists who develop new techniques for

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<v Speaker 1>chemical analysis. And he wasn't alone, because he launched a

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<v Speaker 1>generation of forensic geniuses who followed in his footsteps. They

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<v Speaker 1>went on to lead forensics labs from Long Island to

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<v Speaker 1>Puerto Rico.

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<v Speaker 6>There was like this Gettler family tree of people that

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<v Speaker 6>he trained, and then who they trained, and who they trained,

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<v Speaker 6>who then went on to train other people, to the

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<v Speaker 6>point of like people who were still alive and still

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<v Speaker 6>working and training other people.

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<v Speaker 1>They were a special club. They were chemists and toxicologists

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<v Speaker 1>dedicated to public health, public servants who made sure that

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<v Speaker 1>we wouldn't accidentally poison ourselves in the pursuit of better

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:27.680
<v Speaker 1>living through chemistry. They carried on his legacy. They even

0:43:27.760 --> 0:44:13.200
<v Speaker 1>called themselves the Gettler Boys. Snafu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film,

0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:17.279
<v Speaker 1>Nation Entertainment, and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with

0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:22.239
<v Speaker 1>Gilded Audio. It's executive produced by Me, Ed Helms, Milan Papelka,

0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Mike Falbo, Whitney Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. Our lead producers

0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:31.280
<v Speaker 1>are Carl Nellis and Alyssa Martino. This episode was written

0:44:31.280 --> 0:44:33.920
<v Speaker 1>by Carl Nellis and Albert Chin, with additional writing and

0:44:33.960 --> 0:44:38.600
<v Speaker 1>story editing from Alissa Martino and Ed Helms. Additional production

0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:42.960
<v Speaker 1>from Stephen Wood, Olivia Canny, and Kelsey Albright. Tory Smith

0:44:43.040 --> 0:44:46.320
<v Speaker 1>is our associate producer. Our story editor is nicky Stein.

0:44:46.719 --> 0:44:49.880
<v Speaker 1>Our production assistants are Nevin Callapoly and a kimminy Ekpo.

0:44:50.640 --> 0:44:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Fact checking by Charles Richter. Our creative executive is Brett Harris.

0:44:54.680 --> 0:44:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Editing music and sound design by Ben Chuck. Engineering and

0:44:58.200 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 1>technical direction by Nick Dooley Andrew chug Is Gilded Audio's

0:45:01.840 --> 0:45:06.719
<v Speaker 1>creative director. Theme music by Dan Rosatto. The role of

0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:10.959
<v Speaker 1>Mabel walkerwell Brandt was played by Kerrie Bische. Special thanks

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<v Speaker 1>to Alison Cohen, Daniel Welsh and Ben Ryazac

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<v Speaker 10>Ju