1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Hey there, it's your host ed helms. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 2: Here. 3 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Real quick, before we dive into this episode, I wanted 4 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: to remind you that my brand new book is coming 5 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: out on April twenty ninth. It's called Snaffo, The Definitive 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: Guide to History's Greatest screw Ups, and you can pre 7 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: order it right now at snaffoodashbook dot com. Trust me, 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,600 Speaker 1: if you like this show, you're gonna love this book. 9 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: It's got all the wild disasters spectacular face plants we 10 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 1: just couldn't squeeze into this podcast. And here's the kicker. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: I am also going on tour to celebrate that's right. 12 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: I'm coming to New York, DC, Boston, Atlanta, Philadelphia, Chicago, 13 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and my hometown Los Angeles. So if you've 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: ever wanted to see me stumble through a live Q 15 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: and A or dramatically read about a kiddie cat getting 16 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: turned into a CIA operative, now's your chance again. Head 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: to snaffoo dashbook dot com to pre order the book 18 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: and check out all the tour details in day, or 19 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: just click the link in the show notes. That'll work too. Okay, 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: that's it, on with the chaos. This is Snaffoo Season 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: three formula six previously on Snaffoo, Norris and Gettler finally 22 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: got the nation's attention. 23 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 3: You have the chief medical examiner of one of the 24 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 3: most important American cities accusing the federal government of a 25 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: planned program of extermination. 26 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: The DRIs tried to shrug it off. You can't poison poison, 27 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: but the backlash sent Mabel Walker Willebrandt packing. Hoover had 28 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 1: no use for her any longer. 29 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: She was kind of an irrelevancy. 30 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: Support for prohibition was on the ropes only when possessing 31 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: the instincts of a wild beast would desire to kill 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: or make blind the man who takes a drink of liquor. 33 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: James Duran, Prohibition Commissioner, is seated at a long table. 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: Spread Out around him are accounting documents, charts, lists of 35 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:17,119 Speaker 1: warehouses across the country where industrial alcohol is stored. He's 36 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,359 Speaker 1: flanked by his staff. He's been pulled into a Congressional 37 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: budget hearing for nineteen thirty. It ain't the c SPAN era, 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: but you can practically see the sweat steaming up Duran's 39 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: round glasses. Stories have been swirling in the press about 40 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: the Bureau's violence, its corruption, its cruel and casual approach 41 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: to mass poisoning, which means that when Duran sits down 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: to talk about funding his agency, he finds himself in 43 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: a defensive posture. Part Way through, the congressman from New York, 44 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: deliciously named mister Robert Bacon, decides to make Duran answer 45 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: the kinds of questions he usually ducks. 46 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 4: You will recall fall there were a number of deaths 47 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 4: in New York City due to wood alcohol poisoning. 48 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: Yes, Sir Bacon presses him on whether or not the 49 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: people in New York were killed by his formulas, the 50 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,239 Speaker 1: ones that pumped lethal toxins into the industrial alcohol supply. 51 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 1: In other words, did he sacrifice these people on the 52 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: altar of prohibition. Let me just say personally, I love 53 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: this moment. It's like, yeah, we're finally going to get 54 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,359 Speaker 1: it all from the horse's mouth. I know we're back 55 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: in the nineteen twenties, but the drama of this moment 56 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: it's what I love about history. It's why we do 57 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: this damn podcast. As Deborah Blum says, the last. 58 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: Thing you want is for your people to be called 59 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 3: murdering chemas in a congressional hearing. 60 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: So true, Deborah, with the screws finally being put to Duran. 61 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: Would citizens finally get answers for the deaths of their 62 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: loved ones? Would Duran, or anyone else for that matter, 63 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: finally be held accountable for the Treasury Department's deadly poisoning scheme. 64 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm at Helms and this is Snaffo, a show about 65 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:24,360 Speaker 1: history's greatest screw ups. This is season three, the story 66 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,359 Speaker 1: of Formula six. How prohibitions war on alcohol went so 67 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: off the rails the government wound up poisoning its own people. 68 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: In our final episode, James Durand faces a reckoning, first 69 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: in Congress and then for his career. Along the way, 70 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: his Prohibition boys finally catch George Cassidy, But that slippery 71 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: George has one more trick up its sleeve. As the 72 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: Great Depression pushes Prohibition off center stage, Charles Norris and 73 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:24,839 Speaker 1: Alexander get takes stock, and so do we. In the 74 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: US Senate mailroom, a new clerk is sorting the day's 75 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: incoming letters. It's the spring of nineteen thirty, another election year. 76 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: There's plenty of mail flying in and out as senators 77 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: coordinate their campaigns. But this new clerk can't stay focused 78 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: on his work. He keeps looking up, watching the flow 79 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: of people coming into the building. He's got his eyes 80 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: peeled for one thing in particular. He's looking for a 81 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: green hat. He's looking for George Cassidy, as George's son says. 82 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 2: So this guy had it out for dad and he 83 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 2: wanted on bad. 84 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: The clerk job. It's a ruse, just a cover. The 85 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,159 Speaker 1: guy's name is Roger Butts, and he's a young prohibition 86 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: agent on his first big assignment. He's just twenty years old, 87 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: but he's been specially assigned to catch and I quote, 88 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: the man in the green hat. You gotta admit your 89 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: brand is strong when even the haters are using your handle. 90 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: Duran's Prohibition Bureau is making one final play to bring 91 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: him down. The mailroom charade goes on for a while, 92 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:32,559 Speaker 1: but just scanning government offices for suspicious behavior isn't getting 93 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: him anywhere. So Butts gets off his duff and takes action. 94 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: He starts asking around, say, do you know if. 95 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 5: There's fella called the man in the green hat. I'm 96 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 5: trying to get something for the holidays, to make a 97 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 5: little whoopie yep. 98 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: According to his own testimony, Butts is and I quote 99 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: in search of some whiopie, one of those W words 100 00:06:55,279 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: spelled with an H. I love those whiskey while what ever. 101 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: Someone eventually obliges and introduces Butts to Cassidy. Two days 102 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: later in the Senate stationary room, Butts squares George up 103 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: and determines he matches the physical description he was given 104 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: by the Prohibition Bureau. But on this day, Cassidy isn't 105 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: supporting his typical green hat. He's dressed to the nines 106 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: in a blue suit, but his hat is damn What 107 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: a tricksteh. So Butts orders a fifth of gin. They 108 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: shake hands, but Cassidy doesn't fall for the trap. Rather 109 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: than deliver it to Butts personally, he passes the bottle 110 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: off through a third party. No evidence, no gotcha. Butts 111 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: tries again and again, but round after round, Cassidy is 112 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: just a little too slick for him. 113 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 5: Since Cassidy knew the House office building better than the 114 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 5: agents did and understood the Senate's side, it was mighty 115 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 5: hot to mislead him. 116 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: Finally, Butts decides he needs to take a different approach. 117 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: He corners a staffer for a senator he knows as 118 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 1: a customer of Cassidys, and he reveals he's an undercover agent. 119 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 5: The man was not surprised. He said he had been 120 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 5: suspicious of me for some time. 121 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: Suspicious or no. The man agreed to help Butts make 122 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: the arrest. The staffer calls Cassidy to place in order, 123 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 1: and George drives out to the parking lot of the 124 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: Senate Building to make the drop. 125 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 6: Now. 126 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if George let his guard down or what. 127 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: Maybe this particular staffer was a regular someone he trusted. 128 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: Regardless to George, it was just a normal day. As 129 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: his son Fred says. 130 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: He would have parked someplace close by. 131 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: When suddenly prohibition officers surround his car. They grab him, 132 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: pull him out. They popped the trunk and rummaged through 133 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: his vehicle. 134 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, he was going in and he nabbed him. 135 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 1: I think we can all see Butts smugs smile right. 136 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: All that hard work is finally paying off. He got 137 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: his man. But that smile fades because George is smart. 138 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: No bottles on him, no liquor in the car. A 139 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: trailing vehicle tries to pull away, and the prohibition agents 140 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: realize Cassidy is leading a two car caravan, the liquors 141 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: in the car behind him. Agents spring away from Cassidy 142 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: to stop the second car. I imagine it from George's perspective. 143 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: Pushed onto the hood of his car, officers grabbing his wrists. 144 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 1: He's got to be hoping his accomplice can shift into 145 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: reverse and peel out of there. But Butts and the 146 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: other agents are too quick. The second driver can't maneuver. 147 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: He stopped and dragged out. The search that follows turns 148 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: up a mother load. 149 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 2: He probably had, you know, half a dozen or more 150 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 2: suitcases in the car. 151 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 1: Butts says they nabbed at least six fifths of gin. 152 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,319 Speaker 1: George's mind must have been racing as Butts popped open 153 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 1: the suitcases and counts the bottles. Was this finally it? 154 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 5: For him? 155 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:06,840 Speaker 1: His wife at home? What would she do if he 156 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 1: was in the slammer? Maybe he hoped he could skate 157 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: by because of his two car plan. He's got deniability, right. 158 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: They can't pin the liquor on him. But with the 159 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: liquor in hand, Butts and the other agents turn their 160 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: attention to George. When they go through his pockets, they 161 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: pull out something even more incriminating than a hip flask. 162 00:10:25,440 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: They get their hands on the key to his whole operation. 163 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 1: A little black book. It's George's client list. It seems 164 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: like many extra legal entrepreneurs before him. George took notes 165 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: on his criminal enterprise, and it's clear from his ledger 166 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:48,320 Speaker 1: he's been bootlegging in Congress for a decade. The case 167 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: was a slam dunk for butts in the bureau. When 168 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 1: George went to trial, he found he was facing a 169 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: year and a half in jail. That was bad enough, 170 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: but then something else really got his dander up. As 171 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: the court's decision came down, they ruled it was not 172 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: a punishable crime for his m customers to purchase alcohol. 173 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 1: In other words, while George was taking the fall, every 174 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: gen guzzling senator preaching the good word of prohibition was 175 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: effectively immune from charges. The law wasn't going to lay 176 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: a finger on them. 177 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 2: It was just a matter trying to catch them in 178 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 2: such a way that it doesn't implicate high ups. 179 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: So George decided, if the courts weren't going to give 180 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:34,440 Speaker 1: his sanctimonious customers their due, he would do it himself. 181 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 7: Doctor Duran, are you familiar with the amendment providing that 182 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 7: no industrial alcohol should be denatured by any material injurious 183 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 7: to the human system, Yes, sir. 184 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: Back In his budget hearing turned culture war interrogation, James 185 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: Durant is fending off charges that he's been diabolically poisoning 186 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: American drinkers and cackling behind his spindly fingers. Robert Bacon, 187 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,439 Speaker 1: the New York congressman asking the questions, wants to force 188 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:17,080 Speaker 1: Duran to admit mass poisoning through the denaturing program. But 189 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: it's not just about that. He's trying to attack prohibition itself. 190 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 1: So Bacon brings up a case where drinkers in upstate 191 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: New York had tapped into a vat of methanol and 192 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: dropped dead. He points the finger at Duran. This is you, 193 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: This is your fault. These people died because of prohibition. 194 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: Duran deflects, you will. 195 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 4: Recall this fall, there were a number of deaths in 196 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 4: New York City due to wood alcohol poisoning. 197 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: Yes, Sir, Bacon's convinced these deaths came from industrial denaturants. 198 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: Duran counters that the wood alcohol could have come from anywhere. 199 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: These deaths by methanol aren't on him. In fact, since 200 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: he's facing a Congress from New York. He pulls in 201 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: the testimony of one famous New Yorker as evidence for 202 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: his side. He brings in analysis from Alexander Gettler. 203 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 8: The toxicologist of the City of New York, testified that 204 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 8: the autopsies showed that pure wood alcohol only was found 205 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 8: in the brain cells of the people who had died. 206 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 8: It had no relation to the National Prohibition Act. 207 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: Now, this moment is, for lack of a better word, 208 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: bananas because, as we know, if it weren't for prohibition, 209 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: no one would be breaking into industrial warehouses to drink 210 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: after shape ingredients. They could just walk down to the 211 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: liquor store on the corner and pick up some gin. 212 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: For Duran to say deaths like this had quote no 213 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: relation to the National Prohibition Act, it's just well, it's 214 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,319 Speaker 1: an insult to anyone's basic intelligence. 215 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 3: You know, Is he a trustworthy source, No, he's not 216 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 3: a trustworthy source. 217 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: To be clear, it's true in the case of these 218 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: particular methanol deaths that Get's analysis showed they were killed 219 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 1: by pure wood alcohol, not wood alcohol that was mixed 220 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: into liquor. But Duran is using Getler's judgment of this 221 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: one case to deflect from Norris and Gettler's bigger analysis 222 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: that prohibition was causing people to turn to denatured alcohol 223 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: and that it was poisoning them. And by the way, 224 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: James Duran knows what he's doing. See behind the scenes. 225 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: After the Christmas poisonings in nineteen twenty six, Duran must 226 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: have gotten a little nervous. Could those deaths actually be 227 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: his fault? He wrote directly to the New York Health 228 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: Commissioner and asked for the city's data on the deaths. 229 00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: The commission wrote back, it is my belief that some 230 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: of these deaths were due to methanol or other substances 231 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: employed to denature alcohol. So Duran had it right there, 232 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: in black and white. The New York Health Commissioner made 233 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: the damning connection denaturing alcohol was killing people. But back 234 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: in the present, now sitting in front of Congress, Duran 235 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,440 Speaker 1: has the audacity to tell the committee that Gettler's work 236 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: exonerated him. It was a bold strategy. But then Duran 237 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: was never going to just roll over. 238 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 3: He's clearly defending their policies and saying, no, this wasn't us. 239 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 3: My reaction is that's exactly what I would say if 240 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 3: I was James Duran, which is deny all responsibility and 241 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 3: wash his hands. 242 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, 243 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: but this is a show about screw ups. Duran's gambit worked. Deny, evade, deflect. 244 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: It's an old playbook, and Duran was a natural. It 245 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,080 Speaker 1: was practically a reflex for him. 246 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 3: I mean, this is not going to be a confessional moment. 247 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: And here's the real downer representative Bacon. He backed down. 248 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: He asked a raft of questions, but at the key 249 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: moment when he could have asked some you know, follow ups, 250 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: he just kind of wilted. The hearing moved on. Just 251 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 1: imagine Duran wiping his forehead with a silk hanky and 252 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: allowing himself a sly satisfied smile. No handcuffs, no trial, 253 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: just a little chit chat behind closed doors and a 254 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 1: slick set of lies, and he was home free. I mean, 255 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: that's so fracking insane. Do all the stuff we've talked about, 256 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: hurt and poison and kill so many people and just 257 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: walk away. The Prohibition Bureau was well aware that people 258 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: were getting injured, even dying from drinking industrial chemicals. They 259 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: knew the system in place to manage those chemicals was 260 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: porous and corrupt. They knew it was getting out into 261 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 1: bootleg liquor. They knew that denaturing industrial alcohol was not 262 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: deterring people, and in fact, it was just killing them. 263 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: The indifference to all of those deaths by Duran and 264 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: the Dries in Congress was negligent at best. Personally, I'd 265 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: go for cruel, reckless, and rooted in a callous disregard 266 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 1: for human life. But even if Duran was able to 267 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: smoothly lie his way out of this one moment of 268 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: congressional accountability, not everyone was so easily fooled. Duran might 269 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 1: deny the link, but after the public outcry from Norris 270 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: and Getler's report, the American public was finally connecting the 271 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: dots between national prohibition and people dying in their own 272 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: towns and neighborhoods. And in nineteen thirty they got a 273 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: little more affirmation from a bootlegger in a green hat, 274 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:50,880 Speaker 1: George Cassidy. As his case wound through the legal system, 275 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: George made a connection a reporter at the Washington Post. 276 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:56,959 Speaker 1: I imagine him chatting with folks as he walked in 277 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: and out of the courtroom. George was a colorful character, 278 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: and this was a high profile bust. Some newshound was 279 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: bound to catch him on a potty break. So that 280 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: meant when the verdict came down and he was going 281 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: to take the fall and no one else was going 282 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: to pay any price at all, George knew exactly what 283 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:19,159 Speaker 1: to do. He was ready to tell his story. So, 284 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: as Garrett Peck says, he gave the Post their first 285 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: scoop of the century. 286 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 9: At this point, a really great newspaper at the time 287 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 9: as the Evening Star, and the Post is just this 288 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,639 Speaker 9: small arrival of the city, kind of a gossip newspaper. 289 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 9: But they get this great scoop, and they asked Cassidy 290 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 9: to spill the beans on Congress and he writes six 291 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:41,280 Speaker 9: front page articles. 292 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: That's right, six front page articles each morning. People around 293 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: the country waited with baited breath for the next installment 294 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: of Old George's expose to land on newsstands. Will somebody 295 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: please arrest me for bootlegging so I can get that 296 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 1: kind of press anyway, Three weeks before people were set 297 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: to cast their ballots in the nineteen thirty midterms, a 298 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: bombshell landed that made voters reconsider witchbox to check extra 299 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: extra Read all about it. 300 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 6: The government's hypocrisy on prohibition. 301 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: Exposed On October twenty third, nineteen thirty, George wrote, I. 302 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 10: Saw a side of prohibition no one else has seen. 303 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 10: I would say that four out of five Senators and 304 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 10: Congressmen consume liquor, either at their offices or their homes. 305 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,919 Speaker 10: This is a conservative estimate. 306 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: October twenty fourth, we would have a. 307 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 10: Few rounds of drinks, sing a few songs, and have 308 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 10: a general good time. And on the twenty fifth busiest day, 309 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 10: I have a put into the House office build and 310 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 10: I made forty seven calls on customers kept me hustling 311 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 10: from the time the offices opened at three o'clock in 312 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 10: the morning until well along in the evening. On occasions, 313 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 10: I've heard members of the House and Senate making strong 314 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 10: arguments on the floor the prohibition was being well enforced 315 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 10: when I knew good stuff was being regularly delivered at 316 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 10: their own offices. 317 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 9: The Washington Post was a wet newspaper, and they knew 318 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 9: exactly what they were doing, which was to embarrass the 319 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 9: dry cause. 320 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,439 Speaker 1: What's black and white and wet all over? Yeah, a 321 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: wet newspaper doesn't sound particularly threatening, but with this story, 322 00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,720 Speaker 1: they were torching the dryes. It goes national. 323 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 9: Other newspapers around the country are all reporting on this. 324 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: This is a scandal, a good old DC scandal that 325 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,080 Speaker 1: couldn't have been more perfectly timed if you were a 326 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: wet and gunning to kick prohibition to the curb. 327 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 9: The last one of them was published one week before 328 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 9: the midterm election in nineteen thirty. 329 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 10: You can't blame these men for taking the same means 330 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 10: of refreshment and relaxation other people enjoy. If there's any 331 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 10: difference between members of Congress and other people in their 332 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 10: personal habits and tastes, I didn't see it in ten 333 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 10: years In and about Congress. 334 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:50,719 Speaker 1: As Fred Cassidy says, they didn't take any prisoners, and 335 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: neither did The Washington Post. They followed the George Cassidy 336 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: stories with another series from Butts himself, with headlines like. 337 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 10: Prohibition in the Senate, Cassidy's arrest and caesarre of black 338 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 10: book Bear five bucks. 339 00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 1: Okay, they definitely went for the Bear Butts thing, and 340 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: God bless them for it. But of course, exposing the 341 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: hypocrisy of the dries wasn't the only factor in the election, 342 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: because in nineteen twenty nine it was. 343 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,119 Speaker 5: Panic sixteen and a half million shares of stock sold 344 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 5: in a single day at any price. 345 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,199 Speaker 1: That frenzy set a wrecking ball through the economy. 346 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 9: You have the collapse of the stock market, signaling the 347 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,399 Speaker 9: Great Depression. People are really getting cynical at this point. 348 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 9: Who's just the worst economic catastrophe in our nation's history 349 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 9: is absoutely unreal. And the Democrats seized on this. They're like, look, 350 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 9: let's create jobs again, alcohol, let's do it. You know, 351 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 9: you know, Cassidy had done a huge amount of damage 352 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 9: here to the drys and people were all just like, 353 00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 9: we're done with this. Let's let's elect some wets and 354 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 9: let's end this thing because it's not working. 355 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 1: That November, the wets flooded the House, going from seventy 356 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: six seats to one hundred and forty six. Republican states 357 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: like Ohio and Illinois and Kansas flung aside dry Republicans 358 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: for wet Democrats. As for the man who helped push 359 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: the title wave, George Cassidy was behind bars, locked away, 360 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: serving his time, well sort of. 361 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 2: According to my mother and Hill, he never spent one 362 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:22,200 Speaker 2: full night in jail. 363 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 9: He's sitting around, play with a ward and to play 364 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 9: poker and whatnot. 365 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: He was handed an eighteen month sentence at a jail 366 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: about two blocks away from his house on Capitol Hill. 367 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 2: So you go get dressed up in the morning, go 368 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,800 Speaker 2: into the jail, sign and go do his work in 369 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 2: the jail. After his shift was over, he'd come back 370 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:39,760 Speaker 2: sign out. 371 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 9: So they let him go home every night. 372 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 2: Ah. 373 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,360 Speaker 1: Yes, the old George remas treatment a jail term fit 374 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: for a king, King of the bootleggers, at least. 375 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 9: As part of Cassie's Lee agreement. He tells the judge 376 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 9: he will stop bootlegging. And by the way, I got 377 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 9: his FBI folder, he did not stop bootlegging. 378 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,120 Speaker 1: And remember Cassidy's little black book, replete with the contact 379 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: information of each and every one of his customers, every 380 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 1: politician who secretly solicited bootlegged liquor. While the Treasury Department 381 00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: got their hands on that little book, James Duran and 382 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: his bosses, So what did they do with this comprehensive 383 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 1: list of every fat cat and hypocrite in Washington? Did 384 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: Duran sneak into their offices and drip methanol into their whiskies. Well, 385 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: of course not. But at least they cracked down on them, right, 386 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: not a chance. In fact, they did the exact opposite. 387 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: Every photocopied record of Cassidy's client list was tossed into 388 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: a fire and burned. If George Cassidy got the treatment 389 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: of a king, then the members of Congress were I 390 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: don't know emperors. The point is, even when it's clear 391 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 1: and emperor has no clothes, in the American old boy 392 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 1: crony system, he can always count on a James Duran 393 00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: to cover his ass. After the nineteen thirties midterms, prohibition 394 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: was really on the ropes. Alexander Getler and Charles Norris 395 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: have spelled out the failures of the Prohibition Bureau's denaturing program. 396 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: Cassidy exposed the dry politicians for what they were, hypocrites 397 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: getting sloshed. James Durand's crew, having failed miserably in their 398 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,400 Speaker 1: poisoning campaign, were totally flailing. 399 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 3: The strategy at the federal government was that we're running 400 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 3: out of chemical options, Let's try everything. 401 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty one, Duran's chemists rolled out another new 402 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: formula for denaturing alcohol. 403 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 3: Formula fifty nine B. Okay, now we've tried fifty eight. 404 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,360 Speaker 3: Maybe there was a fifty eight A. But there were 405 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 3: dozens of these formulas, each with a different number, each 406 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 3: with a different mix of things. This whole panorama of 407 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 3: industrial chemistry gets thrown at the wall in this period, 408 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 3: and then they kind of give up. 409 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: It was like the government's heart just wasn't in the 410 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: whole mass poisoning thing anymore. There were no more incendiary 411 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: newspaper stories about new deadly formulas. Prohibition Bureau officials, the 412 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: Treasury Department, they all simply quit talking about it. They 413 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: started quietly backing away from the crime scene with a 414 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: nothing to see here shrug, as if the killing of 415 00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: thousands of Americans never happened. Deborah spent years combing through 416 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: reports from newspapers, medical examiners, insurance companies, and coroner offices 417 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 1: and came to her best estimate on the final body count. 418 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 3: I added up all the numbers to about ten thousand deaths. 419 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 3: That number is the best estimate that I could come 420 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 3: up with for every report I could find from that 421 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,480 Speaker 3: period in the nineteen twenties. What the actual number is 422 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,560 Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's higher, but don't have 423 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 3: that evidence, and I'm not sure anyone does. 424 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: In the early nineteen thirties, support for the dry cause crumbled. 425 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: The violence of liquor raids played apart. If you're keeping track, 426 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: that's Richard Hart and the other agents like him. Corruption 427 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: at every level of enforcement played a part. Two big 428 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: thanks to George Cassidy for dragging that one out into 429 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: the open, and the outrage over the poisoning scheme that 430 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 1: was a body blow to the support for prohibition. Gettler's 431 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: research in Norris's Essay exposed just how callous, how morally 432 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: indefensible prohibition enforcement had become by the time nineteen thirty 433 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 1: two rolled around. Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Democratic candidate for president, 434 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: declared that if elected, on day one of his presidency taps, 435 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,119 Speaker 1: we're going to be wide open once again. 436 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, candidate once for apeal. 437 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:01,760 Speaker 10: And I am confident that the United States America want. 438 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 11: For a pail. 439 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: You hear that one guy hollering, I love that guy. 440 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 1: If my beer mug had been sitting empty in the 441 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: cabinet for ten years, yeah, I'd be voting for that too. 442 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 4: From this date on the eight ain't Amendment's doom. I 443 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 4: pledge myself go a new deal for the American paper. 444 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: On election night nineteen thirty two, Roosevelt won in a landslide. 445 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: All you again, bum ugly again. As he addressed the nation, 446 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: the banner behind him was adorned with his campaign slogan, 447 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: happy days are here again. The American people had spoken. 448 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: It was closing time on prohibition. The drinkers in Congress 449 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 1: rushed to pass the twenty first Amendment. 450 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 9: It goes right from Congress right to the states for ratification. 451 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 9: The first aid that ratifies it is the crowd state 452 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 9: of Michigan, an excellent beer state. I might add the 453 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 9: Prohibition Amendment. The eighteenth Amendment took thirteen months to ratify. 454 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 9: The twenty first Amendment. The repeal Amendment took eight months, 455 00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,200 Speaker 9: one state after the next. It's just like dominoes. The 456 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,719 Speaker 9: ell just fell bop. 457 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,359 Speaker 1: The champagne brewers could brew again, bars could serve again, 458 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: and that means everything's going back to normal. 459 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 2: Right. 460 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 1: Well, No, Prohibition had been an extremely violent mess. It 461 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: had changed the American way of life. It hadn't stopped 462 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,640 Speaker 1: the drinking, but it had driven it underground, created black markets, 463 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: destroyed legitimate businesses, the pre prohibition saloons, those immigrant living 464 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,600 Speaker 1: rooms at the heart of working class neighborhoods. They never 465 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: really came back. And of course the real cost was 466 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 1: in human lives people. So many people had been hurt 467 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 1: and killed along the way. So you're probably wondering the 468 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 1: same thing I'd been wondering the whole time. Was anyone 469 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,320 Speaker 1: actually going to answer for all of that? The boys 470 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: in Washington already knew exactly who to pin the blame on, 471 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 1: Mabel Walker wille Brandt. As time went on, they made 472 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: her the figurehead of everything that went wrong with Prohibition enforcement. 473 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: During her time as Assistant Attorney General. She had been 474 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 1: the face of the law, even swapping burns with Al 475 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: Smith on the campaign trail. Right, Not that we gotta 476 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: feel sorry for her after everything she did, I mean, 477 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: she gave a thumbs up to the KKK. You can't 478 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 1: just brush right past that. But by pinning it all 479 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: on her, they made Mabel escapegoat for the worst abuses 480 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 1: of the Prohibition Bureau. All of the blood spilled, the 481 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: whole pile of corpses they got dumped at Mabel's feet. 482 00:29:53,520 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 1: Prohibition Porsche her fault by making Mabel Walker win Lebrant 483 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:06,640 Speaker 1: the fall gal. Everybody else got off scot free. Take 484 00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: Duran himself. He weaseled out of accountability for the way 485 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 1: he ran the Prohibition Bureau and covered up for Congress. 486 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: Then he stepped down as commissioner in nineteen thirty and 487 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 1: went back behind the scenes. Behind the scenes position was 488 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:28,200 Speaker 1: drum roll please, Commissioner of Industrial Alcohol. Remember how the 489 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: Prohibition Bureau got shifted over to the Department of Justice 490 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 1: once Mabel was gone. Well, it was part of a 491 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: big show by Congress to make it look like they 492 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: were really changing things now. They passed the Prohibition Reorganization Act. 493 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: Not only did it send prohibition policing over to the DOJ, 494 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: but in its place, the Treasury established a new bureau, 495 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 1: the Bureau of Industrial Alcohol. Duran was the new bureau's 496 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: first employee. Once a commissioner, always a commissioner, I guess. 497 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: In other words, with Duran having burned Cassidy's black Book, 498 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 1: essentially covering Congress's ass, none of those guys we're gonna 499 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,320 Speaker 1: come after, Duran. But one year into the new job, 500 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: that's definitely not the same as the old job, Duran 501 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: published his first annual report. It's big news. He's finally 502 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: reversing course on the whole denaturing thing. 503 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 8: The Bureau adapted a new policy on January first, nineteen 504 00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 8: thirty one. It eliminated the use of wood alcohol. He 505 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 8: revoked completely denatured alcohol Formula number one and replaced wood 506 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 8: alcohol with a new non toxic dnature and developed after 507 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 8: several months of intense research. 508 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: And sadly, that's as close as we get to an admission. 509 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, the wood alcohol we were using was bad. 510 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: It killed people, but we're stopping all that and oh look, 511 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: check it out. It turns out we can actually come 512 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,160 Speaker 1: up with a non toxic way of denaturing industrial alcohol. 513 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: Who knew? Not sure? I really trust the guy after 514 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,520 Speaker 1: you know everything, and now he's got a pass. He's 515 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,920 Speaker 1: just passing the word along. Don't worry all that little 516 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: poisoning snafoo, that won't happen again. To add one more 517 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: olive to this already extremely dirty martini of a career, 518 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: I bet you can guess what Duran did when liquor 519 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: became legal again. He became a lobbyist for the country's 520 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: biggest distillers, and he set out to fight against government 521 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: regulation of alcohol. God damn, I mean you remember his 522 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: wife was a member of the Women's Christian Temperance Union. 523 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: She was the one who wrote that book saying it 524 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: was bad to even cook with alcohol. I'm dying to 525 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: know what she thought when old honeymun turned around and 526 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 1: started chilling for big liquor. And he wasn't the only one, 527 00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: which brings us, for one last time back to Mabel 528 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: Walker will le Brandt. We left her falling off the 529 00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: tightrope in Washington, but let's just say she was also 530 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: able to make a nice soft landing because, as Terry 531 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: Winter says, when prohibition ended, she went to work for 532 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,640 Speaker 1: a wine company. It is like, yeah, these people. In fact, 533 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: what makes it even crazier is that Mabel started working 534 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 1: for this wine company before prohibition ended. I mean, does anyone, 535 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: anyone have a single atom of genuine conviction. It's just 536 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: also cynical. Not that Mabel made that her life's work either. 537 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: She kept climbing from position to position. Eventually she became 538 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: a lawyer for two other interesting industries, the airlines and 539 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: oh wait, what's this the movies. Hey, that's what I do. Also, 540 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: I got to say It's a little ironic that, of 541 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 1: all the people to comment on what went wrong with prohibition, 542 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: it may have been Mabel herself who put it best. 543 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,760 Speaker 11: The violence which has accompanied enforcement of the prohibition law 544 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 11: has done more than anything else to instill in the 545 00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 11: public mind the question and the doubt can prohibition ever 546 00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 11: be enforced? Is it worth the price in human life? 547 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: Adios Mabel. It wasn't all your fault. That wasn't not 548 00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: your fault. 549 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 3: Prohibition was a huge mistake in all kinds of ways. 550 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,440 Speaker 3: What I hope is that we actually learned from the mistake. 551 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 3: I hope that understanding our history will add something to 552 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 3: the idea that we're not going to repeat the mistakes 553 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:33,960 Speaker 3: of the past. 554 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: It started as a moral crusade as a minority of 555 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: hardliners fought to remake American life in their own squeaky 556 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: clean image. A powerful political lobby turned it into a 557 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: wedge issue. Congress made it a crime. It was a 558 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: culture war that made it all the way to the Constitution. 559 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: Does all of this feel a bit familiar to you? 560 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: It should, because it's basically the world we still live 561 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: in today. Our political system is set up so that 562 00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:13,880 Speaker 1: certain people benefit from nasty, unending political fights for starters 563 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: take well lobbyists. 564 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 12: The term lobbyist actually comes from the fact that they 565 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 12: would come and they would wait in the lobby outside 566 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 12: the chamber, and so they were the lobbyists who would 567 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 12: stay there in the lobby and speak to the needs 568 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 12: of the constituents, which. 569 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,879 Speaker 1: Was a real service. That's my friend Josh Graham Lynn. 570 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 1: He directs a bipartisan anti corruption organization called represent Us 571 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: and Full Disclosure. I do some work with them too. 572 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 12: But what's ended up happening is there's nothing really preventing 573 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 12: lobbyists from taking congress people out to dinner, or hey, 574 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 12: you want to borrow my jet, or even worse, Hey 575 00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 12: you've done a great job in Congress, and when you leave, 576 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,640 Speaker 12: you should come work for my lobbying firm. We can 577 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 12: offer you ten million dollars a year. It's called the 578 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,680 Speaker 12: revolving door. And it's a huge problem. 579 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,520 Speaker 1: Look no further than Mabel Walker, Willebrandt and James Duran 580 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: to see that this was a huge problem during prohibition. 581 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: To hear more about how it's still a problem today. 582 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: Keep an ear out for our bonus episode with Josh 583 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: coming very soon, and this revolving door for lobbyists. It's 584 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: just one of a number of systemic problems in the 585 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 1: way our government functions. 586 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 12: Most of the American people want common sense solutions that 587 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,239 Speaker 12: are best for the most of us, and instead what 588 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,879 Speaker 12: we get are ideological, hot button divisive rhetoric and then 589 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 12: divisive policy getting passed. And part of the reason for 590 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,920 Speaker 12: that is that it's actually better for those in power. 591 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,440 Speaker 1: Most people in the nineteen twenties didn't want prohibition. Sure, 592 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,480 Speaker 1: maybe they knew alcohol could hurt people, but they also 593 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: had a sense that banning it outright was probably not 594 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 1: the most sensible solution. 595 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 12: The laws that get passed and the way the government 596 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,719 Speaker 12: operates is actually wildly out of step with what most 597 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 12: of us would consider reasonable or common sense, because it 598 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,840 Speaker 12: doesn't get people fired up, it's not hot button, it 599 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 12: doesn't fuel the culture war. 600 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,080 Speaker 1: But as the historian Paul Thompson says, people have to 601 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 1: be internally persuaded of a reform. 602 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 12: Law is not how you change people's minds. 603 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,520 Speaker 9: You know, if there's no willpower, you don't write a 604 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,480 Speaker 9: lot of band something that's just stupid. 605 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 6: It's just a mess. 606 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,759 Speaker 1: Well said Paul. Let me reiterate that law is not 607 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: how you change people's minds. I mean, think about the 608 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: prohibitions we still live with today, bans on abortion, bands 609 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:36,520 Speaker 1: on weed. We've only just overturned the ban on gay marriage. 610 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: Since the nineteen twenties, when the Temperance movement played on 611 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: racist fears and gave guns to domestic terrorists. It feels 612 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,160 Speaker 1: like we've been caught in one culture war after another. 613 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: When lobbyists get those issues written into law, we end 614 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,920 Speaker 1: up enforcing moral codes with some kind of kindergarten justice. 615 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:57,319 Speaker 1: But setting off a culture war is like taking a 616 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: jackhammer to the foundations of your own house. It just 617 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 1: might bring your entire home crashing down around you. November 618 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three, New York City, the Waldorf Astoria is 619 00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:24,520 Speaker 1: putting the finishing touches on three new bars, one of 620 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,240 Speaker 1: them with blue and gold columns and a mirrored ceiling, 621 00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: is the jewel of the city. The Hotel New Yorker 622 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: has purchased one hundred thousand dollars worth of top shelf 623 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,720 Speaker 1: whiskey and is building out a new basement wine cellar 624 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: to house the world's finest wines. All anyone knew anymore 625 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: was bath dub Jen The waiters at Lewis Sherry's on 626 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: Park Avenue relearn the appropriate wines for each course. A 627 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: hardy barolo with your steak, maybe a Chardonnay with your 628 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: chicken cordon bleue. Requests for liquor licenses filed at New 629 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: York City Hall are coming in at a rate of 630 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 1: one thousand a day. At Bloomingdale's on the Upper east Side, 631 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,480 Speaker 1: the line snakes out the door and around the corner, 632 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,640 Speaker 1: customers waiting for doors to open so they can snatch 633 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 1: up bottles of imported scotch and wine. As for Charles 634 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: Norris Well, the end of prohibition is in sight, but 635 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: he's still got plenty of work to do. He travels 636 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: through New York, the waterfront, the Bowery, collecting data and 637 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:25,440 Speaker 1: writing down his observations for his annual report. The city 638 00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,800 Speaker 1: is still far from perfect. The Great Depression now brings 639 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: its own litany of suffering to the people around him, 640 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: but the destructive wake of prohibition is finally dissipating. As 641 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: he passes the Gothic edifice of Bellevue, it's hard not 642 00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,400 Speaker 1: to remember the worst days of the poisonings, when the 643 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: hospital was surrounded by bodies. 644 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 3: Bellvue is close to the river. They would stack the 645 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:53,600 Speaker 3: bodies up on piers behind the hospital. Sometimes when there 646 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 3: was a catastrophe, some kind of multiple fatality thing, the 647 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 3: bodies went to Bellevue. And there are actually the newspaper 648 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,560 Speaker 3: reports of the time where bodies were really stacked up. 649 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: That was the thick of prohibition. But now the peers 650 00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: are clear. 651 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 3: He's thinking, in this city, this imperfect, amazing city, is 652 00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:22,279 Speaker 3: coming back to what it should be. People see him 653 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,960 Speaker 3: walking away in the dusk with this feeling of a 654 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 3: job done. 655 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,560 Speaker 1: Nineteen thirty three, Utah becomes the thirty sixth state to 656 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: ratify the twenty first Amendment that seals it Prohibition is overturned. 657 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: In New York, Bellevue Hospital makes an announcement, to little fanfare, 658 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: the formation of a new department, forensic Medicine. It's the 659 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: first of its kind in the country. The head of 660 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: the department will be Charles Norris and the head of 661 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,760 Speaker 1: toxicology Alexander Getler. In the next chapter of his career, 662 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 1: Norris loved the stage and the microphone, relishing his position 663 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:11,239 Speaker 1: as the face of public service. Meanwhile, Getler continued to 664 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: live out his days a private man in a public job. 665 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: He was offered a chance to do a TV show 666 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: on forensics CSI before CSI, but that wasn't his style. 667 00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: He kept his head down and he worked hard, but 668 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: he still couldn't avoid controversy altogether. In fact, according to 669 00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: his grandson al the family still remembers that one time 670 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:36,080 Speaker 1: Gettler's wife, Alice, dropped by the courtroom to see Getler 671 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:36,520 Speaker 1: in action. 672 00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,840 Speaker 13: My grandmother never went to the courtroom, and because he 673 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 13: was always in there testifying, and she went there once 674 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 13: and the jury found the defend and guilty for murder. 675 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,440 Speaker 13: He said, if I ever get out and the two people, 676 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,680 Speaker 13: I'm going to go get you know, the DA and 677 00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 13: that son of a bitch Gettler. 678 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:55,080 Speaker 1: So after that she went. 679 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,880 Speaker 13: She never went to another court case. 680 00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:00,839 Speaker 1: That threat brought home the gravity of Gettler's work to 681 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,719 Speaker 1: his family, but to Alexander, that was the cost of 682 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: doing work that really mattered. After Prohibition, even more new 683 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: poisons were entering daily life. Leaded gasoline, the newly discovered 684 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: in highly toxic element thallium, sold as a rat poison, 685 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: but so dangerous it was eventually banned. Not to mention 686 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,480 Speaker 1: an old poison in the air, whose danger was just 687 00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: starting to emerge cigarette smoke. Alexander worked against all of 688 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:35,200 Speaker 1: these poisons, and in fact, Getler is still celebrated today 689 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 1: by the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. They give an 690 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: award in his name to toxicologists who develop new techniques for 691 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,759 Speaker 1: chemical analysis. And he wasn't alone, because he launched a 692 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,839 Speaker 1: generation of forensic geniuses who followed in his footsteps. They 693 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 1: went on to lead forensics labs from Long Island to 694 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico. 695 00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:58,400 Speaker 6: There was like this Gettler family tree of people that 696 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 6: he trained, and then who they trained, and who they trained, 697 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 6: who then went on to train other people, to the 698 00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 6: point of like people who were still alive and still 699 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:07,600 Speaker 6: working and training other people. 700 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,880 Speaker 1: They were a special club. They were chemists and toxicologists 701 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,719 Speaker 1: dedicated to public health, public servants who made sure that 702 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 1: we wouldn't accidentally poison ourselves in the pursuit of better 703 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: living through chemistry. They carried on his legacy. They even 704 00:43:27,760 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: called themselves the Gettler Boys. Snafu is a production of iHeartRadio, Film, 705 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:17,279 Speaker 1: Nation Entertainment, and Pacific Electric Picture Company in association with 706 00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 1: Gilded Audio. It's executive produced by Me, Ed Helms, Milan Papelka, 707 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: Mike Falbo, Whitney Donaldson, and Dylan Fagan. Our lead producers 708 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,280 Speaker 1: are Carl Nellis and Alyssa Martino. This episode was written 709 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,920 Speaker 1: by Carl Nellis and Albert Chin, with additional writing and 710 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: story editing from Alissa Martino and Ed Helms. Additional production 711 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 1: from Stephen Wood, Olivia Canny, and Kelsey Albright. Tory Smith 712 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,320 Speaker 1: is our associate producer. Our story editor is nicky Stein. 713 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: Our production assistants are Nevin Callapoly and a kimminy Ekpo. 714 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:54,240 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Charles Richter. Our creative executive is Brett Harris. 715 00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:58,120 Speaker 1: Editing music and sound design by Ben Chuck. Engineering and 716 00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: technical direction by Nick Dooley Andrew chug Is Gilded Audio's 717 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: creative director. Theme music by Dan Rosatto. The role of 718 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,959 Speaker 1: Mabel walkerwell Brandt was played by Kerrie Bische. Special thanks 719 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: to Alison Cohen, Daniel Welsh and Ben Ryazac 720 00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 10: Ju