WEBVTT - Selects: The Tailesin Massacre 0:00:00.850 --> 0:00:03.510 Hi, everybody. We're inching toward the end of the year. 0:00:03.630 --> 0:00:06.229 It's December 10th, 2020 in COVID time. 0:00:06.970 --> 0:00:09.650 And we are here to tell you about the episode, 0:00:09.670 --> 0:00:14.440 or at least I'm here, the Taliesin Massacre. It's a 0:00:14.470 --> 0:00:18.739 massacre that happened at the perhaps Frank Lloyd Wright's greatest work, 0:00:19.420 --> 0:00:23.280 Taliesin in Wisconsin. And I picked this one because, geez, 0:00:23.300 --> 0:00:26.960 by this time, I will have long done this in 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:27.480 real time. 0:00:27.620 --> 0:00:28.450 But I. 0:00:29.130 --> 0:00:32.490 am going and have went to the Green Bay Packers, 0:00:32.950 --> 0:00:35.530 the Atlanta Falcons at Lambeau Field playing the Green Bay Packers. 0:00:36.170 --> 0:00:37.990 And I knew this game was on the calendar. And 0:00:38.010 --> 0:00:41.330 I went with my good friend, Adam Pranica, the greatest generation, 0:00:42.050 --> 0:00:44.979 and my good friend from high school, Robert Chahade. And 0:00:45.020 --> 0:00:48.380 we all met up in Green Bay with Adam's uncle, 0:00:49.320 --> 0:00:51.440 Uncle Pete Pranica, by the way, who is the voice 0:00:51.460 --> 0:00:54.660 of the Memphis Grizzlies. So I can say this with confidence, 0:00:54.700 --> 0:00:56.160 even though it hasn't happened yet. I know I had 0:00:56.180 --> 0:00:58.640 a great time talking to Uncle Pete. Because I've long 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:00.100 wanted to meet him, and I'm a big fan of 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.580 the NBA. My mom's from Memphis, and so I know 0:01:02.620 --> 0:01:03.900 we had a lot to talk about. It's kind of 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:05.620 weird because I know this is all true, but it 0:01:05.660 --> 0:01:09.380 hasn't happened yet. But on my list, I don't know 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.170 if I made it or not. I guess time will tell. 0:01:11.610 --> 0:01:13.190 I wanted to go see Taliesin. I know we're playing 0:01:13.209 --> 0:01:15.910 golf at Whispering Pines, and I know that went well. 0:01:16.610 --> 0:01:18.229 I don't know how I shot yet, but I know 0:01:18.290 --> 0:01:19.810 that Whispering Pines is lovely, and it had to be 0:01:19.830 --> 0:01:22.230 great unless it was pouring down rain. 0:01:22.250 --> 0:01:23.310 But who cares? Play in the rain. 0:01:24.209 --> 0:01:26.449 But, like I said, maybe I'll follow up and let 0:01:26.470 --> 0:01:28.190 you know if I actually made it out to Taliesin. 0:01:28.209 --> 0:01:31.420 I'm not sure if the calendar had enough space. But 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.280 at the very least, I was well prepared with my 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.580 knowledge of the Taliesin Massacre, and you will be too 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:37.100 if you listen right now. 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:46.640 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:01:52.900 --> 0:01:55.860 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:01:55.900 --> 0:02:00.010 there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's here, and this 0:02:00.090 --> 0:02:06.470 is Stuff You Should Know, the long-awaited Frank Lloyd Wright edition. 0:02:07.710 --> 0:02:08.190 Sort of. 0:02:08.210 --> 0:02:09.990 Yeah, kind of. 0:02:10.090 --> 0:02:13.770 I mean, you know, it's not a full biography, but 0:02:14.430 --> 0:02:17.990 it definitely covers a very dark period of his life. 0:02:18.850 --> 0:02:19.230 Oh, yeah. 0:02:19.669 --> 0:02:23.019 One of the darker periods that any... artiste could have. 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:25.760 And make no mistake, Frank Lloyd Wright was an artiste. 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:28.019 He was an artiste of architecture. 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.560 Yeah. Have you ever, how many houses of his have 0:02:31.580 --> 0:02:32.460 you seen or buildings? 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:37.250 I've seen a bunch. I've been to Hollyhock in Los Angeles. 0:02:37.260 --> 0:02:40.970 I've been to a Usonian, I can't remember which one, 0:02:41.310 --> 0:02:45.970 in Washington by the, one of the, I can't remember 0:02:46.010 --> 0:02:48.940 what other historic house it's by. They moved it. I've 0:02:48.980 --> 0:02:52.240 been to, there's a Usonian in Alabama, Chuck, in Florence, Alabama, 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:56.489 which is really neat. Been to Fallingwater. Been to Talias 0:02:56.540 --> 0:02:58.730 in West. I think that's it. 0:02:59.290 --> 0:03:01.370 Yeah. I've been to a handful myself. I've been to 0:03:01.430 --> 0:03:04.970 one in Tulsa and a couple in LA. Of course, 0:03:04.990 --> 0:03:08.250 the Guggenheim. I think we've both been there. I have not. 0:03:08.550 --> 0:03:08.870 I have not. 0:03:08.889 --> 0:03:09.350 No, really? 0:03:09.870 --> 0:03:10.110 Yeah. 0:03:10.669 --> 0:03:13.049 All the times you've been to New York and all 0:03:13.090 --> 0:03:15.130 the museums, you never step foot in the Guggenheim? 0:03:15.590 --> 0:03:18.790 It's true. I've never been in the Guggenheim, sadly enough. 0:03:18.870 --> 0:03:21.250 I saw a movie where there's a shootout in the Guggenheim. 0:03:22.930 --> 0:03:25.310 I highly recommend going to the Guggenheim. It's great. 0:03:25.710 --> 0:03:29.639 Okay. I thought it was George Costanza that designed the Guggenheim, 0:03:29.660 --> 0:03:30.440 not Frank Lloyd Wright. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.180 That's right. He always wanted to be an architect. 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.600 That's right. 0:03:35.740 --> 0:03:39.030 My favorite line for that episode is when he talks 0:03:39.100 --> 0:03:42.390 about the redesign plans of the Guggenheim and they go, really? 0:03:42.870 --> 0:03:44.880 He goes, Yeah, it really didn't even take that long. 0:03:45.060 --> 0:03:48.110 That's right. Yeah. He's saying that he was the one 0:03:48.230 --> 0:03:49.170 who redesigned it. 0:03:49.790 --> 0:03:52.390 Like it's impressive that it was just a really quick job. 0:03:52.410 --> 0:03:56.730 Right. Yeah, that's a classic. But we're not talking about 0:03:56.750 --> 0:03:59.620 the Guggenheim today, Chuck. We're not even talking about Hollyhock House. 0:03:59.660 --> 0:04:05.580 We're talking about specifically Taliesin, which is widely regarded as 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:12.030 Frank Lloyd Wright's genuine bona fide masterpiece, like his greatest 0:04:12.100 --> 0:04:18.710 work ever. I think it said that it's his autobiography 0:04:18.990 --> 0:04:22.770 written in wood and stone, that it's just him. And 0:04:23.050 --> 0:04:25.810 not just him in a specific time and place, but 0:04:26.350 --> 0:04:29.040 for decades where the work, his earliest work to his 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.960 latest work, all showed up and appeared over time at Taliesin. 0:04:33.779 --> 0:04:36.680 Yeah, I mean, there's a lot there. It was his 0:04:36.740 --> 0:04:43.330 home at times. It was his studio of school. an 0:04:43.350 --> 0:04:48.670 800-acre estate. This was family land. It was his favorite 0:04:48.710 --> 0:04:51.570 hill in Wisconsin in the river valley there where his 0:04:51.610 --> 0:04:53.450 Welsh grandparents originally homesteaded. 0:04:54.150 --> 0:04:56.130 And so it was very personal to him. 0:04:56.810 --> 0:05:00.000 So he did things like make the roof so it 0:05:00.020 --> 0:05:03.800 doesn't leak water into the offices below. 0:05:03.820 --> 0:05:06.200 Like some of his other properties. 0:05:06.500 --> 0:05:07.220 Exactly. 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:07.940 Yeah. 0:05:08.300 --> 0:05:10.300 He wasn't one to just move his desk, right? Right. 0:05:10.339 --> 0:05:10.520 Right. 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.920 So this particular house, and it still is, it's a huge, 0:05:16.100 --> 0:05:20.080 enormous house. I think it's 21,000 square feet. It's a 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:25.160 classic example of what's called the prairie style, which is 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.880 a style of architecture considered to be the first genuine 0:05:28.940 --> 0:05:33.400 American style of architecture that Frank Lloyd Wright founded back in, 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:38.150 I think, the 1890s, maybe the late 1890s. And it 0:05:38.190 --> 0:05:41.830 takes its inspiration from the surrounding environment. It's meant to 0:05:41.890 --> 0:05:44.920 blend in with the environment, work with the environment rather 0:05:44.950 --> 0:05:48.020 than to dominate it. So there's a lot of horizontal lines, 0:05:48.060 --> 0:05:51.140 a lot of natural materials, a lot of woodworking. And 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:56.260 Taliesin is very much in that style. I think it 0:05:56.580 --> 0:06:00.930 has 524 windows, which is a lot of windows. And 0:06:01.670 --> 0:06:05.270 it also has no gutters. There's a lot of cantilevered roofs, 0:06:05.350 --> 0:06:09.529 which kind of overhang pretty far, so there wasn't necessarily 0:06:09.550 --> 0:06:11.670 a need for gutters. But I read that Frank Lloyd 0:06:11.690 --> 0:06:15.170 Wright specifically didn't want gutters because he wanted icicles to 0:06:15.250 --> 0:06:17.370 form on the eaves of the roof so he could 0:06:17.750 --> 0:06:21.490 look out of those 524 windows in the Wisconsin winter 0:06:21.850 --> 0:06:23.330 and see all the icicles hanging. 0:06:24.460 --> 0:06:26.619 Ed, do you like the prairie homes, that style? 0:06:27.260 --> 0:06:31.520 Yeah, yeah, I do. My problem with Frank Lloyd Wright's 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.839 work is that it's so dated and old-timey that it 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:41.680 almost like It almost makes me a combination of scared 0:06:41.820 --> 0:06:46.720 and nauseous. You know what I'm talking about? Sure. Have 0:06:46.740 --> 0:06:49.680 you ever looked at a wicker wheelchair from, like, the 0:06:49.740 --> 0:06:50.919 turn of the last century? 0:06:50.940 --> 0:06:51.800 Yeah, yeah. 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:53.740 You just kind of get the creeps from it for 0:06:53.779 --> 0:06:54.920 some reason. Okay. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:56.850 You get that same feeling. I mean, you know, he 0:06:56.870 --> 0:06:59.590 did the bulk of his work 100 years ago. 0:06:59.610 --> 0:07:01.550 Right. You know, somewhere in that range. 0:07:02.110 --> 0:07:09.550 But it was also very technologically– advanced. And like, he 0:07:09.590 --> 0:07:12.520 was just doing some really interesting stuff. So the way 0:07:12.580 --> 0:07:17.559 that a very dated, once technologically advanced piece of work 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.520 can kind of cull that weird feeling out of you. 0:07:21.580 --> 0:07:23.670 But at the same time, I'm like in genuine awe 0:07:23.710 --> 0:07:25.410 of the stuff he did. Like falling water is one 0:07:25.430 --> 0:07:27.690 of my favorite houses in the entire world. 0:07:27.990 --> 0:07:32.710 Sure. I mean, it's gorgeous. Amazing. What about you? I 0:07:32.730 --> 0:07:32.950 like them. 0:07:32.980 --> 0:07:33.300 All right. 0:07:33.330 --> 0:07:34.060 They're, they're fine. 0:07:34.380 --> 0:07:37.550 Um, Some of them, and I have some here in 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:39.470 the neighborhood that pop up every now and then. Some 0:07:39.490 --> 0:07:43.270 newer builds are in the prairie style. And I like 0:07:43.290 --> 0:07:45.970 them more than some other kinds and less than some 0:07:45.990 --> 0:07:46.489 other kinds. 0:07:46.670 --> 0:07:47.350 Let's just say that. 0:07:49.110 --> 0:07:50.030 You like craftsmen? 0:07:50.810 --> 0:07:53.620 Well, sure. I live in a craftsman. That's my favorite. 0:07:54.180 --> 0:07:55.780 I like craftsmen, too. I think they're good. 0:07:56.700 --> 0:08:00.860 I love a highly slick modern home. I don't want 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:02.220 to live in one, but I love them. 0:08:03.090 --> 0:08:04.730 I would not want to live in one either. Those 0:08:04.770 --> 0:08:07.330 are hit or miss with me. Like some of them 0:08:07.370 --> 0:08:10.450 are just too, just God awful. Some of them are just, 0:08:10.550 --> 0:08:12.410 when they hit the nail on the head, you're like, wow, 0:08:12.430 --> 0:08:15.450 that's one of the best houses anyone's ever designed and built. 0:08:16.030 --> 0:08:19.390 But they miss, it's almost like documentaries and horror movies. 0:08:20.130 --> 0:08:22.630 There's a lot of them, but only very, very few 0:08:22.690 --> 0:08:26.800 like are truly great. That's my impression of modern homes. 0:08:27.340 --> 0:08:27.700 Yeah. 0:08:27.860 --> 0:08:30.880 I'm into, we're into architecture though as a couple, Emily 0:08:30.900 --> 0:08:31.180 and I, and. 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:32.260 We watch a couple of- Oh, I thought you meant 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:36.260 you and me. Great. Well, us too. It's a triad. Well, 0:08:36.280 --> 0:08:37.319 I guess throw you and me in there and I 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.040 guess we'd be a portion. 0:08:39.610 --> 0:08:42.189 But we have a couple of shows that we love 0:08:42.210 --> 0:08:44.830 to watch that are, there's one called Grand Designs on 0:08:44.870 --> 0:08:46.110 Netflix that I highly recommend. 0:08:46.130 --> 0:08:48.540 And oh man, what's the other one? 0:08:48.550 --> 0:08:51.450 There's this couple, not a married couple, but a pair 0:08:51.510 --> 0:08:52.570 that travels the world. 0:08:53.110 --> 0:08:55.370 The Great British Architecture Bake Off? 0:08:55.910 --> 0:08:59.620 No, that's not it. I can't remember what it's called, 0:08:59.660 --> 0:09:00.880 but Grand Designs is really good. 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.689 I mean, and they follow these you know, sort of 0:09:03.870 --> 0:09:09.270 impossibly built houses designed and built by these incredible lunatic 0:09:09.350 --> 0:09:12.339 dreamers who are obsessed with sort of a thing. It 0:09:13.270 --> 0:09:16.739 seems to be the common thread is these obsessives. And 0:09:16.780 --> 0:09:19.000 it leads to something beautiful and great, you know, usually. 0:09:19.380 --> 0:09:22.900 For sure. Yeah. So one of the things about Frank 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.600 Lloyd Wright is that he is, including during his lifetime, 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.140 he's considered one of the greatest architects to ever live. 0:09:29.660 --> 0:09:35.500 Certainly the most popularly well-known, maybe, I guess you'd put it. Like, 0:09:35.940 --> 0:09:40.240 anybody who's ever heard of any kind of architecture, even vaguely, 0:09:40.300 --> 0:09:42.560 is probably familiar with Frank Lloyd Wright. 0:09:43.500 --> 0:09:43.820 Agreed. 0:09:44.260 --> 0:09:48.349 So, when he put all of himself into Taliesin, he 0:09:48.370 --> 0:09:51.349 was building a home for himself, and I think it 0:09:51.370 --> 0:09:54.390 was completed in 1911. And, like, it's worth pointing out, 0:09:54.470 --> 0:09:57.229 he was returning to his childhood home, to the valley 0:09:57.730 --> 0:10:02.500 where his clan, like, settled. Like if you look around 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:07.160 Spring Green, Wisconsin, everybody's got the name Lloyd in there somewhere. 0:10:07.460 --> 0:10:11.610 Like his maternal ancestors settled that area. And he was 0:10:11.660 --> 0:10:14.290 literally building on this hill, his favorite hill when he 0:10:14.309 --> 0:10:16.390 was a child, like you were saying. But he was 0:10:16.470 --> 0:10:18.750 doing this. in the midst of one of the biggest 0:10:18.809 --> 0:10:21.150 scandals like any architect's ever gone through. 0:10:22.030 --> 0:10:24.989 Yeah, so as you'll see through this show, and if 0:10:25.010 --> 0:10:28.690 you know anything about the man, Frank Lloyd Wright had 0:10:28.770 --> 0:10:30.370 a bit of a wandering eye and a bit of 0:10:30.410 --> 0:10:35.470 a philandering habit. And he had an extramarital affair with 0:10:35.510 --> 0:10:38.710 a woman named M-A-M-A-H. 0:10:39.790 --> 0:10:41.870 Mama? Mama? Borthwick. 0:10:42.130 --> 0:10:45.370 Huh? I don't know. I've been testing it out, too. 0:10:45.470 --> 0:10:46.350 I said Mama. 0:10:46.850 --> 0:10:47.050 Mama? 0:10:47.929 --> 0:10:48.189 Sure. 0:10:48.929 --> 0:10:49.370 Borthwick. 0:10:49.429 --> 0:10:53.460 And she was, you know, they met in 1903. Wright 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:55.290 was in his mid 30s at the time. He was 0:10:55.340 --> 0:10:59.020 already really famous as an architect. And he was commissioned 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:03.660 to design a house for her and her husband, Edwin Chaney. 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.179 And they were it was going to be built there 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.360 in Wisconsin, pretty close to Chicago, where Frank Lloyd Wright. 0:11:10.179 --> 0:11:10.819 Was at the time. 0:11:11.700 --> 0:11:13.980 She was pregnant in her mid 30s at the time 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:19.189 with her second child. and got really involved in sort 0:11:19.230 --> 0:11:22.290 of working with Frank Lloyd Wright very closely. And that 0:11:22.450 --> 0:11:25.100 sort of, you know, the classic story, at first it 0:11:25.130 --> 0:11:28.100 starts out platonic, one thing leads to another, and before 0:11:28.140 --> 0:11:30.140 you know it, they're bumping uglies. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:34.440 That's right. Smashing, as the younger kids say, from what 0:11:34.460 --> 0:11:34.700 I understand. 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:35.900 Yeah, I just heard that for the first time the 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:37.020 other day. Didn't know that was a thing. 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.990 So it's a thing now. So Frank Lloyd Wright, by 0:11:41.030 --> 0:11:44.110 this time, had six kids of his own, and he 0:11:44.150 --> 0:11:48.410 had made a name for himself around Chicago, building homes, 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:55.200 designing homes for the well-to-do, especially in the Oak Park neighborhood. Apparently, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:12:01.060 just between 1900 and 1910, he designed 50 prairie houses. 0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.040 So he'd made a name for himself. But apparently, by 0:12:04.090 --> 0:12:09.689 the time, I think 1908 was when He, no, 1907 0:12:09.690 --> 0:12:12.709 when they started their affair. By the time 1907 rolled around, 0:12:12.750 --> 0:12:15.290 he was getting kind of tired of doing the same thing. 0:12:15.350 --> 0:12:18.130 It's kind of like he was cursed. Like this school 0:12:18.150 --> 0:12:22.569 of architecture that he developed was so popular that he, 0:12:23.170 --> 0:12:25.670 that's all anybody wanted. And he had gotten bored with 0:12:25.710 --> 0:12:28.500 it by that time. So he seems to have been 0:12:28.630 --> 0:12:32.000 unfulfilled professionally and kind of took it out on his 0:12:32.100 --> 0:12:35.459 family in about the worst way you could possibly take 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.809 things out on your family short of Cutting them up 0:12:38.850 --> 0:12:42.709 with the machete. Yeah. 0:12:43.170 --> 0:12:47.069 By 1908, it was a pretty much well-known open secret 0:12:47.910 --> 0:12:51.210 in Chicago and of that high society in Chicago that 0:12:51.250 --> 0:12:54.740 this affair was going on. And he was sort of 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:57.120 looked down on from his friends and his neighbors and 0:12:57.140 --> 0:13:02.960 his peers, different colleagues. His poor wife, Kitty, was long-suffering 0:13:03.020 --> 0:13:06.210 because she kind of stood by his side anyway. And 0:13:06.309 --> 0:13:09.270 he realized that he really wanted to leave his family. 0:13:10.170 --> 0:13:12.870 And he did so. He said, I did not know 0:13:12.890 --> 0:13:16.830 what I wanted. I wanted to go away. And he did. 0:13:16.910 --> 0:13:21.429 In September of 1909, Frank left with her, went to Europe, 0:13:21.590 --> 0:13:25.610 left his wife and his six kids behind. And here's 0:13:25.650 --> 0:13:28.550 one of the more selfish quotes I've ever seen from 0:13:28.809 --> 0:13:32.070 a husband and father. And this was in his autobiography. 0:13:33.010 --> 0:13:35.270 So when family life in Oak Park in that spring 0:13:35.290 --> 0:13:39.150 of 1909 conspired against the freedom to which I had 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:42.740 come to feel every soul entitled, I had no choice. 0:13:43.740 --> 0:13:47.219 Would I keep my self-respect, but to go out a 0:13:47.260 --> 0:13:53.179 voluntary exile? So he really felt, and you know, those 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.099 were his words in his autobiography. So he wasn't, he 0:13:56.140 --> 0:13:58.300 had no illusions about himself, but he very much felt 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:00.970 that you know what, I'm Frank Lloyd Wright and I'm 0:14:01.010 --> 0:14:04.070 a man and I deserve this by my right. 0:14:04.390 --> 0:14:07.050 Yeah, so those are two key points. He's a man, 0:14:07.190 --> 0:14:10.189 so he deserved it. But more than anything, he was 0:14:10.250 --> 0:14:13.390 a legend in his own mind, which was sustained and 0:14:13.710 --> 0:14:16.820 verified by the public at large. But he was Frank 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.900 Lloyd Wright. So more than anybody, he deserved that to 0:14:19.980 --> 0:14:22.460 go do whatever he wanted. And, you know, whatever the 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.880 consequences were for other people emotionally, to hell with that. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.660 One other thing that I think is worth pointing out 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:33.420 is that he had money problems basically his entire life, 0:14:33.500 --> 0:14:36.060 despite the fact that, I mean, this man designed the Guggenheim. 0:14:36.100 --> 0:14:40.590 He designed some of the most iconic buildings and houses 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:43.890 in the United States. And he had money just coming 0:14:43.930 --> 0:14:45.890 in by the truckload, but he would spend it as 0:14:45.930 --> 0:14:48.450 fast as he could get it and then some. So 0:14:48.830 --> 0:14:53.010 at this point in time, when he left his family, 0:14:53.390 --> 0:14:57.270 he apparently left them in financial straits as well. There, 0:14:57.390 --> 0:15:03.700 there was, um, there's a biographer named, um, Paul Hendricks and, uh, 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.400 Paul Hendrickson, I'm sorry. And he points out that there 0:15:06.420 --> 0:15:09.700 was a $ 900 grocery bill that, um, was laying on 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.340 the kitchen counter when, when, uh, Frank Lloyd Wright walked 0:15:12.420 --> 0:15:14.620 out on his family, which I mean, at least pay 0:15:14.660 --> 0:15:17.609 the grocery bill. So the family that you're leaving in 0:15:17.670 --> 0:15:18.990 a lurch can eat, you know? 0:15:19.970 --> 0:15:23.470 Yeah. So his, uh, his mistress left her two kids, uh, 0:15:23.490 --> 0:15:26.230 with her husband and, She went on a train to 0:15:26.260 --> 0:15:28.510 New York City, met Frank at the Plaza Hotel. 0:15:28.990 --> 0:15:32.670 They had a few days there of, I guess, smashing. 0:15:33.530 --> 0:15:37.810 And then went to Europe, and he was famous the 0:15:37.850 --> 0:15:39.910 world over, so it's not like he could lay low. 0:15:40.430 --> 0:15:44.190 Very famous face, very famous dresser of fine clothing and 0:15:44.210 --> 0:15:47.190 those hats. So he didn't exactly blend in anywhere he went. 0:15:47.650 --> 0:15:51.570 So he was found out in Berlin. Chicago Tribune had 0:15:51.590 --> 0:15:55.010 a headline that said, Leave families, semicolon. 0:15:56.190 --> 0:15:58.630 Nice little switch there. Elope to Europe. 0:15:59.510 --> 0:16:02.910 And this whole time, poor Kitty, she says, it appears 0:16:03.050 --> 0:16:05.770 like any other ordinary mundane affair with the trappings of 0:16:05.790 --> 0:16:08.030 what is low and vulgar. But there's nothing of that 0:16:08.070 --> 0:16:10.070 sort about Frank Wright. He is honest and sincere. 0:16:10.170 --> 0:16:12.040 I know him. My heart is with him now. I 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:13.460 feel certain that he will come back. 0:16:14.580 --> 0:16:17.260 And that's one of the saddest parts about all this 0:16:17.340 --> 0:16:19.900 is she was sort of like, he's just philandering a 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.050 bit and he'll come back to us. 0:16:21.490 --> 0:16:23.910 Yeah, it is sad. But also, you know, whatever his 0:16:23.990 --> 0:16:26.910 kids were thinking, too. Like, well, I guess dad didn't 0:16:26.950 --> 0:16:30.790 love us enough to stick around. Another, I think, kind 0:16:30.830 --> 0:16:35.330 of telling clue about Frank Lloyd Wright's enormous arrogance was 0:16:35.370 --> 0:16:41.670 he called his and... What are we going to call her, Chuck? 0:16:44.070 --> 0:16:44.430 Mamma? 0:16:44.450 --> 0:16:46.270 I'm calling her Mamma. 0:16:46.790 --> 0:16:47.050 Okay. 0:16:47.430 --> 0:16:53.940 His and Mamma's... flight to Europe after abandoning their families. 0:16:54.260 --> 0:16:59.020 He called it a spiritual Hegira. And I had not 0:16:59.070 --> 0:17:02.870 seen that word before. And it turns out Hegira, H-E-G-I-R-A, 0:17:03.670 --> 0:17:08.889 is what Muhammad's exodus from persecution in Mecca was called. 0:17:09.450 --> 0:17:12.109 And he left Mecca to go to Medina, where he 0:17:12.150 --> 0:17:15.229 founded Islam. And to Frank Lloyd Wright, this is what 0:17:15.250 --> 0:17:17.290 he and his mistress were doing when they abandoned their 0:17:17.330 --> 0:17:18.609 families and fled to Europe. 0:17:19.010 --> 0:17:21.010 Yeah, he thought a lot of himself. 0:17:21.450 --> 0:17:24.750 He was an SOB, man, plain and simple. He's a 0:17:24.820 --> 0:17:30.300 classic example of having to compartmentalize the genius of the 0:17:30.380 --> 0:17:34.020 work and just the complete horribleness of the person, you know? 0:17:34.340 --> 0:17:36.600 I know. I know. But it can be done. It 0:17:37.220 --> 0:17:42.139 can be done. I disagree with anybody who says, you know, 0:17:42.160 --> 0:17:45.300 there's certain exceptions, I'm sure. But anybody who says, well, 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:49.220 this person held some pretty terrible views— So we shouldn't 0:17:49.540 --> 0:17:51.500 pay any attention to their work from that point on. 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.760 I disagree with that. I think that there are tons 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:56.700 of exceptions to that rule, although there are tons of 0:17:56.770 --> 0:17:59.370 exceptions to the exception to that rule, too, if that's 0:17:59.790 --> 0:18:00.750 not confusing enough. 0:18:01.410 --> 0:18:03.730 Well, I think it's a personal decision. If someone wants 0:18:03.790 --> 0:18:06.990 to never gaze upon falling waters again, then that's their choice. 0:18:07.330 --> 0:18:09.950 Totally. It's not like I'm going to, you know, grab 0:18:09.970 --> 0:18:13.989 them by their hair and, like, make them look. But 0:18:14.010 --> 0:18:16.990 I would disagree with them in a lot of cases. 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.409 Yeah, like Manson's music. Fantastic. 0:18:19.630 --> 0:18:21.170 Just beautiful stuff. 0:18:21.369 --> 0:18:22.090 Really good stuff. 0:18:22.350 --> 0:18:22.850 For sure. 0:18:23.570 --> 0:18:29.510 So Frank Lloyd Wright returns to Chicago in 1910. 0:18:29.510 --> 0:18:30.870 Meemaw stayed behind. 0:18:30.890 --> 0:18:36.120 She stayed there in Europe for another year because she 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:39.639 was getting a divorce from Edwin Chaney. And so she 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.200 stayed there wrapping that up. Frank moved back with Kitty. 0:18:43.740 --> 0:18:47.190 He had no intention of staying. And I think it 0:18:47.230 --> 0:18:50.680 was pretty clear to Kitty at this point because she said, Mr. Wright, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:52.800 I wonder if he made her call her that. 0:18:53.460 --> 0:18:53.700 Mr. 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:56.619 Wright reached here Saturday evening, October 8th, and he has 0:18:56.640 --> 0:18:59.210 brought many beautiful things, everything but his heart, I guess, 0:18:59.750 --> 0:19:01.330 and that he is left in Germany. 0:19:02.270 --> 0:19:03.570 But he came back a bit of a pariah. 0:19:03.590 --> 0:19:03.730 Yeah. 0:19:04.950 --> 0:19:08.250 Oh, just a tad. They were pariahs before. There was 0:19:08.270 --> 0:19:11.990 a woman who grew up living next door to Mama 0:19:12.030 --> 0:19:15.260 and her children. And she, years later in her diary, 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.000 recounted a time when her mom refused to give Frank 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:21.440 Lloyd Wright cream when he came over from next door 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:24.100 to borrow some and said that they were sinners and 0:19:24.140 --> 0:19:27.040 she wasn't going to help them out at all. So 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:30.670 when they left for Europe, made headline news for leaving 0:19:30.690 --> 0:19:33.690 their families, and then he returns, moves back in with 0:19:33.730 --> 0:19:37.969 his family. Just long enough to plan his next home 0:19:38.369 --> 0:19:42.850 for him and Mama. Like, yeah, the people in his 0:19:42.950 --> 0:19:48.450 social orbit did not take very kindly to that. Professionals, neighbors, friends, 0:19:49.030 --> 0:19:53.080 gossip colonists. basically everybody in the Midwest who had anything 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:56.320 to do with anything, like, rejected him and Mama. 0:19:57.100 --> 0:19:59.899 Yeah, and to boot, when he gets back, because he 0:19:59.960 --> 0:20:04.760 needed seed money for his new home, he had a 0:20:04.780 --> 0:20:07.960 benefactor named Darwin Martin, and he said, hey, listen, I 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:11.840 want to build this great cottage And this affair is 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:14.520 long over and this is going to be a cottage 0:20:14.560 --> 0:20:16.980 for my mom. And I promise it's not going to 0:20:17.020 --> 0:20:21.580 be our little smash shack. And so give me $ 25, 000 0:20:21.020 --> 0:20:22.760 to get this project going. 0:20:23.260 --> 0:20:23.800 He got it. 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.869 He moved into the home with his mistress. And I 0:20:28.350 --> 0:20:33.430 think by Christmas 1911, they were officially living together there 0:20:33.470 --> 0:20:34.109 in Greenspring. 0:20:34.390 --> 0:20:37.000 Yeah. He said, thanks, chump. Thanks for the money. And 0:20:37.380 --> 0:20:40.600 because just trashing Frank Lloyd Wright as a person is 0:20:40.619 --> 0:20:42.640 a lot of fun, I want to add this detail too. 0:20:43.740 --> 0:20:47.820 Darwin Martin, his benefactor, over the course of Frank Lloyd 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:52.960 Wright's career, lent Frank Lloyd Wright 75 grand total. And 0:20:53.180 --> 0:20:58.500 when the stock market crashed in 1929, Darwin Martin lost everything. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:03.280 Like he was flat broke, went from an extraordinarily wealthy 0:21:03.300 --> 0:21:07.240 man to just flat broke for the rest of his life. 0:21:07.980 --> 0:21:11.530 Frank Lloyd Wright never repaid any of that money, but 0:21:11.660 --> 0:21:14.469 he made sure that when his autobiography came out that 0:21:14.530 --> 0:21:16.150