WEBVTT - Facing a New Era of American Extremism

0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.160
<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

0:00:04.240 --> 0:00:09.000
<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, we mentioned

0:00:09.240 --> 0:00:11.720
<v Speaker 1>fall is underway, which means things like football, kids back

0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:13.680
<v Speaker 1>at school, the new round of Supreme Court cases. There's

0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:15.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot going on, and I believe later on this

0:00:15.840 --> 0:00:18.560
<v Speaker 1>week there's another hearing by the January six Committee that's

0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.880
<v Speaker 1>investigating the US Capital attack and the role that groups

0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:24.640
<v Speaker 1>such as the far right group known as the Proud

0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Boys played in the takeover and protest of the US capital.

0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:31.319
<v Speaker 1>So perfect. Next guest, Yeah, we're very pleased to have

0:00:31.440 --> 0:00:34.440
<v Speaker 1>with u. Andy Campbell. He's an investigative reporter for the

0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.559
<v Speaker 1>Huffington's Post. Huff Post my former place of work, and

0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:39.640
<v Speaker 1>Andy a former colleague of mine. He's also the author

0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.360
<v Speaker 1>of the new book it's called We Are Proud Boys,

0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.000
<v Speaker 1>How a right wing street gang ushered in a new

0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.400
<v Speaker 1>era of American extremism. And he joins us right now

0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.800
<v Speaker 1>in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. And you good to

0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:52.000
<v Speaker 1>have you with us. Congratulations on the book. So happy

0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:53.760
<v Speaker 1>to be here and good to see you again town. Yeah,

0:00:53.760 --> 0:00:55.520
<v Speaker 1>it's good to see you as well. Um, take us

0:00:55.560 --> 0:01:02.160
<v Speaker 1>back to here, UM and the the genesis of the

0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Proud Boys goes back before. But as you write in

0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.800
<v Speaker 1>your book, was a very important moment for the Proud Boys.

0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:12.440
<v Speaker 1>Right during during Donald Trump's rise, a reactionary talk show

0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:15.320
<v Speaker 1>host named Gavin McGinnis who was also co founder of

0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.080
<v Speaker 1>Vice Media. UM. He sort of gets kicked out of

0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:23.400
<v Speaker 1>of Vice Media for his awful, awful rhetoric with the company, UM,

0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.039
<v Speaker 1>and he takes his audience with him, starts his own

0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:29.319
<v Speaker 1>show called The Gavin McGinnis Show, UM and and doubles

0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:33.880
<v Speaker 1>down on this misogynist, bigoted rhetoric. And to his audience,

0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:38.440
<v Speaker 1>he's pelting them with with bigoted tenants. UM. One of

0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:42.080
<v Speaker 1>his tenants was to quote venerate the housewife. He thought

0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:45.240
<v Speaker 1>that women and women in the workplace were responsible for

0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.960
<v Speaker 1>the end of masculinity. He also gave them a tenant

0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:54.120
<v Speaker 1>to accept that white men were responsible for the success

0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:57.280
<v Speaker 1>of Western culture. So he's pelting them with these sort

0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:02.960
<v Speaker 1>of white supremassist ideologies. And he takes that audience and

0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.880
<v Speaker 1>and decides, I'm going to activate these guys. I'm going

0:02:06.920 --> 0:02:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to build them into a gang. And he called them

0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.240
<v Speaker 1>the Proud Boys, and he told them, you are going

0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:15.839
<v Speaker 1>to take Trump and the GOP's grievances and you're gonna

0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.919
<v Speaker 1>get out there and do what the krusty old hats

0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:21.600
<v Speaker 1>of the GOP won't do and fight them out in

0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:26.640
<v Speaker 1>the street. And you know, six years later. Uh, They've

0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:31.040
<v Speaker 1>been involved in so many acts of political violence over

0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the years. I mean, these guys, um were involved in

0:02:33.880 --> 0:02:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Unite the Right attacks in cities across the country, and

0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.880
<v Speaker 1>of course, uh their outsized role in the January six insurrection.

0:02:42.480 --> 0:02:45.760
<v Speaker 1>UM so his small time gang that started here in

0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.080
<v Speaker 1>New York City, uh came to be known as the

0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:53.200
<v Speaker 1>national Architects of of January six. And he helped me

0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.000
<v Speaker 1>out here because I feel like extreamist groups have always

0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:59.520
<v Speaker 1>been with us, right, uh, in our US culture, and

0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:03.399
<v Speaker 1>yet I feel like you didn't necessarily hear about them

0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:06.120
<v Speaker 1>or you know, and this is a group that's out there,

0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:08.440
<v Speaker 1>and you think about the impact that they've had on

0:03:08.480 --> 0:03:12.440
<v Speaker 1>our culture and our society. What's different. Well, the Proud

0:03:12.440 --> 0:03:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Boys were smart. After the Unite the Right rallies of Charlottesville,

0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:21.280
<v Speaker 1>which they had a hand in, UM, they realized that

0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:24.480
<v Speaker 1>that just being uh you know, sort of a fighting

0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.240
<v Speaker 1>hate group wasn't gonna last very long. A lot of

0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:30.079
<v Speaker 1>the groups that that took part in the Unite the

0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.440
<v Speaker 1>Right rallies dissolved immediately after that because people were like

0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:37.200
<v Speaker 1>those guys are Nazis. And the Proud Boys got a

0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.000
<v Speaker 1>new leader named Enrique Tario, who was very well connected

0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.080
<v Speaker 1>in the political scene in Florida, uh so connected in

0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.600
<v Speaker 1>fact that he was friends with Roger Stone, Trump's top confidant,

0:03:48.120 --> 0:03:52.960
<v Speaker 1>um Enriquetario told me he realized we needed to become

0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.160
<v Speaker 1>a more political machine if we're going to position what

0:03:56.880 --> 0:03:59.800
<v Speaker 1>we want to do, which is the violence right as

0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.640
<v Speaker 1>as something you know, regular Americans on the right we'll

0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:08.520
<v Speaker 1>see as patriotic, as as defenders of Trump against what

0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.080
<v Speaker 1>they describe as the leftist threat in the street. And

0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:14.720
<v Speaker 1>so he turned them into a more political monster and

0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:19.600
<v Speaker 1>positioned what they do as protected speech and and and patriotism.

0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.440
<v Speaker 1>Where are you seeing the rhetoric that you write about

0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:28.040
<v Speaker 1>in this book seep into American political discourse inside Washington

0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:31.840
<v Speaker 1>d C. You hear a politicians speak and are there

0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.280
<v Speaker 1>cases where you say that is something that I've heard

0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:40.240
<v Speaker 1>from Gavin McGinnis. I think Gavin McGuinness echoes the GOP

0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.960
<v Speaker 1>and and and vice versa. I mean, Gavin pushed uh,

0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:49.760
<v Speaker 1>anti immigration, anti Muslim rhetoric and and what he wants

0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:51.719
<v Speaker 1>them to do and what they have done in the

0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:55.800
<v Speaker 1>years since Gavin has kind of stepped aside, UH, is

0:04:56.279 --> 0:05:00.200
<v Speaker 1>that they take the GOP and and Fox New his

0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:04.280
<v Speaker 1>rhetoric as marching orders. So, for example, over the summer,

0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the Proud Boys have been going to drag Queen's story

0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.279
<v Speaker 1>hours across the country and showing up to intimidate people.

0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.200
<v Speaker 1>They showed up to an event in Nevada at a

0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:18.200
<v Speaker 1>public library that had been going on for years. Um.

0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.719
<v Speaker 1>But one of them brought a rifle and started making

0:05:20.800 --> 0:05:24.520
<v Speaker 1>their way toward the door. Parents and children screamed and

0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:28.919
<v Speaker 1>and and ran. Uh. This is happening at a rapid clip. Um.

0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:33.160
<v Speaker 1>But but it's no surprise that Fox News all summer

0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:37.520
<v Speaker 1>has been railing against lgbt Q, against drag queens, um

0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and you know, characterizing them as as groomers, as coming

0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:46.799
<v Speaker 1>for your children. And so it mirrors the rhetoric where

0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:50.240
<v Speaker 1>the Proud Boys are looking at uh, you know, Fox

0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.640
<v Speaker 1>News and Donald Trump and saying this is what we

0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.400
<v Speaker 1>need to go out there and put violence to andy.

0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.440
<v Speaker 1>When when you and I were working together at Hugh Post.

0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.640
<v Speaker 1>You were not writing about UH, the Proud Boys. You

0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.280
<v Speaker 1>were not writing about American extremism. How did you come

0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.039
<v Speaker 1>to start writing about it? And why write this book?

0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:08.880
<v Speaker 1>I was a street level crime reporter back when we

0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.200
<v Speaker 1>worked together, and you know, I covered acts of violence

0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:15.719
<v Speaker 1>across the country during Trump's rise, those acts of violence

0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:19.080
<v Speaker 1>made their way into politics. Through the rise of Donald Trump,

0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.000
<v Speaker 1>we saw any number of extremist groups coming together under

0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.600
<v Speaker 1>the banner of Trump thinking that they had an ally

0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.000
<v Speaker 1>in the White House. And the ones that stood out

0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.760
<v Speaker 1>to me were the Proud Boys. Because these guys wanted

0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.880
<v Speaker 1>to be lionized for their violence, they wanted to talk

0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.000
<v Speaker 1>to the press, they were proud of what they did.

0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.960
<v Speaker 1>UM and so you know, focusing on them turned out

0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.240
<v Speaker 1>to be a good bet because now they orbit so

0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:46.280
<v Speaker 1>many acts of political violence, including January six, and so

0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:50.120
<v Speaker 1>as January six was happening, and as they continued their

0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:53.159
<v Speaker 1>violence despite a lot of their leaders going to jail,

0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:56.359
<v Speaker 1>I realized that this is the warning shot that we

0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.520
<v Speaker 1>need to write the going forward. This cycle of political violence,

0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:05.240
<v Speaker 1>held aloft by the GOP and and media, UH is

0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.440
<v Speaker 1>going to continue. And so that's why I wrote it,

0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.880
<v Speaker 1>is there a typical demographic of an individual who is

0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:14.240
<v Speaker 1>a proud boy. Proud boys are of a lot of ideologies.

0:07:14.280 --> 0:07:17.200
<v Speaker 1>There's neo Nazis and people of color within them, but

0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.600
<v Speaker 1>the majority of them are are white guys who are

0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.680
<v Speaker 1>angry and want to fight out Trump's grievances. How much

0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:25.560
<v Speaker 1>is also that they feel like they've just been left

0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:28.280
<v Speaker 1>behind in this economy. I think there's I think there's

0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.880
<v Speaker 1>an element of that, but again it's the violence that

0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.520
<v Speaker 1>they're aiming for through those grievances. You know, as I

0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:36.760
<v Speaker 1>was thinking about you coming on listening to you talk,

0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, is this our ku Klux Klan in terms

0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:42.360
<v Speaker 1>of our times? Ku Klux Klan? Is that how we

0:07:42.400 --> 0:07:46.160
<v Speaker 1>need to think about it? There are absolute comparisons to

0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.240
<v Speaker 1>be made. I mean, this is a force that is

0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.720
<v Speaker 1>racist at its core. They've made inroads with politics, and

0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.200
<v Speaker 1>they've made inroads with the American public. But with the clan.

0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.640
<v Speaker 1>You have to remember, the clan didn't lose power because

0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.600
<v Speaker 1>people rebuffed them. The clan lost power because so much

0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:07.040
<v Speaker 1>of the American public shared that ideology that they weren't

0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:11.000
<v Speaker 1>really needed anymore. And and that's the fear going forward

0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.440
<v Speaker 1>with these guys is that uh, you know, enough people

0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:17.640
<v Speaker 1>are going to see political violence as a normalized option

0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:21.320
<v Speaker 1>in politics. Uh, that the Proud Boys may not be needed.

0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:25.640
<v Speaker 1>But it's not all just white members, right, All Proud

0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Boys are not just white. I get asked about this

0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:30.680
<v Speaker 1>a lot. And you know, the Proud Boys, first of all,

0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:34.160
<v Speaker 1>their racists at their core, right, Gavin Gavin gave them

0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.800
<v Speaker 1>a tenant that they have to accept if they join.

0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.079
<v Speaker 1>Anybody can join, but they have to accept that white

0:08:40.080 --> 0:08:44.280
<v Speaker 1>men are responsible for the success of the West. And

0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.520
<v Speaker 1>and there are people of color. There are also neo

0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:50.679
<v Speaker 1>Nazis and the Proud Boys, but they are all gathering

0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:54.240
<v Speaker 1>under this banner of getting to fight out their rage

0:08:54.320 --> 0:08:57.040
<v Speaker 1>in the street against the left and against Trump's opponents,

0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.360
<v Speaker 1>and that can create strange bedfellows. Just just last weekend,

0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:05.679
<v Speaker 1>Nazis joined Proud Boys in Texas, UH for for a

0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.160
<v Speaker 1>Drag Queen Story our event they were protesting. And and

0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:11.960
<v Speaker 1>also on top of that, the very few people of

0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.400
<v Speaker 1>color that are members of the Proud Boys are held

0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.520
<v Speaker 1>aloft constantly by the Proud Boys as evidence that they're

0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:21.360
<v Speaker 1>they're not racist, they're not white supremacist, and that has

0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.200
<v Speaker 1>served to put a veil in front of them when

0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.600
<v Speaker 1>they're confusing the media and law enforcement. Hey, Andy, over

0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.679
<v Speaker 1>the summer back in June, we saw footage emerged from

0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.840
<v Speaker 1>Idaho about the Patriot Front gathering to protest an lgbt

0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Q event. And I'm wondering where the relationship is between

0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Patriot Front, Proud Boys, and other sort of right wing extremists.

0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.760
<v Speaker 1>Help us kind of untangled that web, right that this

0:09:45.840 --> 0:09:48.800
<v Speaker 1>is a this is a machine and a cycle of

0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:51.400
<v Speaker 1>of extremism that we're seeing in front of us right now.

0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.240
<v Speaker 1>For example, Q and on conspiracy theorists and Alex Jones

0:09:56.280 --> 0:10:00.000
<v Speaker 1>type plant to see that satanic pedophiles in the form

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.120
<v Speaker 1>of drag queens are coming for your children. Uh. Donald

0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:08.240
<v Speaker 1>Trump and Fox News sanitize and grow that seed for

0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.440
<v Speaker 1>their audiences, push it out to millions of people, and

0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:16.400
<v Speaker 1>then the extremist street groups like the Proud Boys, Patriot Front,

0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.520
<v Speaker 1>oath Keepers who are also big on January six, come

0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:22.559
<v Speaker 1>to burn it all down. And so the Proud Boys,

0:10:22.720 --> 0:10:27.000
<v Speaker 1>I see them as uh, both normalizers of political violence

0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:31.200
<v Speaker 1>but also the pointy end of this extremism machine. Now,

0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.600
<v Speaker 1>if you lop off one of those parts, there is

0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:37.040
<v Speaker 1>somebody they're already ready to take take it on. And

0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.440
<v Speaker 1>and the scary part about what we're seeing now is

0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.040
<v Speaker 1>that everyday Americans are joining these extremist groups in the streets.

0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.439
<v Speaker 1>And so you are seeing how big are they? I

0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:51.120
<v Speaker 1>would say, in there in the you know, five thousand

0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.760
<v Speaker 1>to ten thousand range. They may have been bigger at

0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.880
<v Speaker 1>one point. But but you know, people ask, well, why

0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.120
<v Speaker 1>should I worry about them if if they're not going

0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:01.719
<v Speaker 1>to knock on my or one day. They haven't been

0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:04.720
<v Speaker 1>known to do door knocks. But their their threat lies

0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:09.199
<v Speaker 1>in their ability to coalition build um. They can gather many,

0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:14.040
<v Speaker 1>many extremists and everyday Americans together under one banner wherever

0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.000
<v Speaker 1>they are in the country. Are you afraid doing this

0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.200
<v Speaker 1>at any time? Because you were embedded right within? I mean,

0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.679
<v Speaker 1>certainly writing for a tough post, I've I've gone. You know,

0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I've been in face to face with proud boys over

0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:30.720
<v Speaker 1>the years. Originally, they weren't a threat to me because

0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm a white guy, and and they don't think that

0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.320
<v Speaker 1>they can intimidate me. It's true, and it's it's but

0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:42.040
<v Speaker 1>now I have gotten married to a fellow extremism reporter

0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 1>and and now that she's in the picture, we have

0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.440
<v Speaker 1>received some threats because they see a woman or you know,

0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.920
<v Speaker 1>whenever they see a person of color, they know that

0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:54.400
<v Speaker 1>that they can add an intimidation factor in there, so

0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.319
<v Speaker 1>not before maybe a little bit. Now, can you talk

0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.000
<v Speaker 1>a little bit about your reporting and how you went

0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.400
<v Speaker 1>around about reporting this over the last few years. Yeah,

0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I mean we were we were covering their rallies. Uh,

0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of from day one. A lot of

0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.640
<v Speaker 1>them happened in Portland, Oregon, you know, a liberal town

0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.960
<v Speaker 1>where where they believe that they could kick the hornets

0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:15.880
<v Speaker 1>nest in terms of leftism, and and they would show

0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:20.760
<v Speaker 1>up um for you know, maga events is what they

0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:23.160
<v Speaker 1>called them, wait for leftists to come out and then

0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:28.040
<v Speaker 1>and then track them down and beat them into submission. Uh.

0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>This was ongoing, you know, and we were shouting it

0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:33.640
<v Speaker 1>from the hilltops over and over. But I don't I

0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 1>don't think it was until uh, you know, Donald Trump

0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 1>sits on stage and says stand back, stand by at

0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:43.280
<v Speaker 1>the presidential debate in that most Americans knew about their violence.

0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:45.320
<v Speaker 1>What was that moment for for you as a reporter

0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 1>who covered this? I mean, did that legitimize the Proud

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Boys movement. I mean it certainly made them feel that way.

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.840
<v Speaker 1>You can argue that Trump didn't intend to activate the

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Proud Boys with that, and he was specifically asked to

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.400
<v Speaker 1>disavow them, and he did not. He blamed the left

0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.160
<v Speaker 1>and then said old boys, stand back and stand by.

0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.800
<v Speaker 1>But but the Proud Boys took it as marching orders,

0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:07.080
<v Speaker 1>and and they started gearing up for what they called

0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.160
<v Speaker 1>on a blog post civil war, their last stand for

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Trump on January six and and Trump's inability to rebuff

0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.320
<v Speaker 1>them is just indicative of the GOP's embrace of them.

0:13:17.400 --> 0:13:20.520
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to Roger Stone, uh, sat down with him

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.800
<v Speaker 1>last year. Uh and and he told me, admitted to

0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 1>me that he'd been advising the Proud Boys through their

0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 1>political ambitions for years. Andy, before we let you go. Um,

0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.000
<v Speaker 1>there is sort of a silver line into this entire coverage.

0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:36.720
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned that you met your wife, who is a

0:13:36.720 --> 0:13:39.400
<v Speaker 1>fellow reporter on extremism. You met her at a at

0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.160
<v Speaker 1>a neo Nazi rally. Yeah, Unite the Right. Uh in

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:48.360
<v Speaker 1>sen we were both reporting for competing publications. Uh and

0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and we are you know from that day. Just recently

0:13:51.840 --> 0:13:55.440
<v Speaker 1>we got married in France. And uh, you know love

0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.880
<v Speaker 1>it a Nazi rally, a hopeless place. Uh, the story

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.040
<v Speaker 1>you can tell your grandkids. Hey, just quickly, um thirty

0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.440
<v Speaker 1>forty seconds here, based on your reporting, based what you

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.920
<v Speaker 1>learned about the Proud Boys, is there some conclusion as

0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.920
<v Speaker 1>the January six Committee continues to do its investigation about

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.320
<v Speaker 1>some connection between the Trump administration, the White House at

0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.320
<v Speaker 1>the time, and the Proud Boys so quickly, Well, not

0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:20.000
<v Speaker 1>only did Roger Stone tell me he'd been advising them

0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 1>for years, but I'm interested to see their sedition trial

0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:25.960
<v Speaker 1>coming up this winter because Proud Boys have already agreed

0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 1>to testify against their own and we may learn a

0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.160
<v Speaker 1>lot about their relationship to Donald Trump and and the

0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:36.720
<v Speaker 1>people around him. Certainly they've been doing security for top

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:40.640
<v Speaker 1>level media pundits and politicians. So we're going to learn

0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:42.800
<v Speaker 1>a lot this winter. Well, we learned a lot in

0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:44.960
<v Speaker 1>talking to you and through your book, Andy Campbell, thank

0:14:45.000 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>you so much. Investigative reporter at have post his book.

0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.000
<v Speaker 1>Check it out. We are Proud Boys, how a right

0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 1>wing street gang ushered in a new era of American extremism.

0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>If you missed it, it'll be on our podcast and

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:56.080
<v Speaker 1>in our weekend show