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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greace.

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Speaker 2: Finally your Vandersloute, the man, as many of us has

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Speaker 2: been saying for years, who murdered American beauty straight, a

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Speaker 2: student bound for pre med school who murdered her is

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Speaker 2: finally ensnared in an American courtroom. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 2: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 2: at Crime Stories and on Serious XEM one eleven. First

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Speaker 2: of all, I want you to hear as I did

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Speaker 2: in court Natalie's mother, Beth Holloway. We did not know

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen. The courtroom was packed. Are

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Speaker 2: supposed to start at nine point thirty sharp on the

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Speaker 2: eighth floor in the Hugo Black Federal Courthouse. We had

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Speaker 2: been waiting. I had been waiting a couple of hours

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Speaker 2: to make sure I could get into the courtroom. And

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Speaker 2: when I left to drive to Birmingham, it was pitch dark,

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Speaker 2: and all I could think about was Beth Holloway and

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Speaker 2: what if I, God forbid, would ever have to be

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Speaker 2: in her shoes seeking justice for my child that was murdered.

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Speaker 2: The courtroom was packed. Deputies were trolling up and down

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Speaker 2: as they should have been the aisles to make sure

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Speaker 2: that there were no weapons, that nobody had their cell

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Speaker 2: phone out, everyone was following the rules. There were armed

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Speaker 2: guards at every door and every possible exit for you.

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Speaker 2: On vander Slut. Beth, Natalie's mother, walked into the courtroom

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Speaker 2: and literally it was like the bride. They come down

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Speaker 2: the aisle, everything gets quiet and people turn. She came

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Speaker 2: in back straight as an arrow and took to her seat.

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Speaker 2: Your vander Slute came in looking much worse for the wear.

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Speaker 2: He looked like an old man, flabby and dissipated, looked

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Speaker 2: like a bum. They've been sleeping on a bench, apart bench.

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Speaker 2: And I looked at him and I thought, do you

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Speaker 2: have any idea the wake of pain you have left

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Speaker 2: behind you, how many people's lives you have twisted up

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Speaker 2: and contorted it? Apparently he has no idea. He just

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Speaker 2: sat there like nothing was wrong. And then Beth spoke,

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Speaker 2: I want you to listen to something she had to say.

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Speaker 2: After listen, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I don't really look at it as saying goodbye to Natalie,

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Speaker 3: because we wake up every morning and the hope that

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Speaker 3: filled her her life and heart feels ours today. So

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Speaker 3: we feel like we carry Natalie with us even forward now.

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Speaker 4: And that's a good that's a very good feeling.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, it feels victorious and more Eran Vanderslow's

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Speaker 3: confession means we have finally reached the end of our

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Speaker 3: never ending nightmare.

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Speaker 4: And for me, reaching the end of the nightmare being

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Speaker 4: over is better than closure.

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Speaker 3: It's been eighteen years since Natalie disappeared, and Notalie would

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Speaker 3: be thirty six years old today.

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Speaker 4: I still miss her every day. It's been a very long.

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Speaker 3: And painful journey, but we finally got the answers we've

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Speaker 3: been searching for for all these years. We finally today

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Speaker 3: we got justice for Natalie.

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Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know right now. But first to my longtime

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Speaker 2: friend and colleague, forensic expert Cheryl McCollum, founder director of

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Speaker 2: the Cold Case Research Institute and start a hit podcast,

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Speaker 2: Zone seven. Cheryl. She has much bravado as she's speaking

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Speaker 2: right after we all got out of court yesterday. But

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Speaker 2: in the courtroom, Cheryl, when she stood up, you're right

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Speaker 2: there beside me. That's what I broke down and started crying.

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Speaker 2: When she her voice cracked and she said, in my mind,

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Speaker 2: in my heart, Natalie will be forever, young, forever, eighteen, forever,

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Speaker 2: with the world before, forever and beautiful. That's how she

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Speaker 2: will live in my heart. And just the diametrically opposed

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Speaker 2: factions in the courtroom, with Beth and Natalie's dad on

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Speaker 2: one side with the state and Vanderschlout in his fleet

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Speaker 2: of attorneys on the other side. I will never forget

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Speaker 2: when she said that. So with all of her bravado,

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Speaker 2: all of her bravery, all of her valor, she is hurting.

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Speaker 2: She is hurting it. I heard she promised she would

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Speaker 2: be right back in the classroom today, going right back

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Speaker 2: to work. And I didn't realize Cheryl, that by going

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Speaker 2: to Aruba and staying for so long trying to find Natalie,

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Speaker 2: she lost her job, She lost her teaching credentials. She

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Speaker 2: had to come back, ultimately and go back to school

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Speaker 2: and start all over from scratch. She lost her tenure,

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Speaker 2: she lost everything looking for Natalie.

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Speaker 5: She was fighting more than one battle. She had to

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Speaker 5: fight to get her livelihood back. She had to fight

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Speaker 5: for justice for her child. But I'm with you, what

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Speaker 5: we saw yesterday in that courtroom was nothing shy of

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Speaker 5: the transformation. She was fearless, she was laser focused on him.

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Speaker 5: She spoke directly to him twice, and you know when

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Speaker 5: she find as, you know, she turned and she looked

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Speaker 5: at her son, Matt, and she said, Matt, we did

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Speaker 5: it because you know, he was younger than Natalie and

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Speaker 5: this has been his whole adult life, is fighting for justice.

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Speaker 5: And they did that yesterday. If it were not for

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Speaker 5: Beth Holloway, that would have never happened.

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Speaker 2: You know what, you just gave me a flash, because

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Speaker 2: there's nothing like this, brother, sister love. John David is

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Speaker 2: a big teddy bear, my big boy. He's six '

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Speaker 2: five now and he's just fifteen. The only two times

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Speaker 2: he has ever pushed somebody at school was when they

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Speaker 2: said something about his sister Lucy, and I think one

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Speaker 2: was just trying to get a date, but yeah, that

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Speaker 2: didn't work out. And the only time ever my daughter

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Speaker 2: has ever had an active ounceid I know of. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: somebody made fun of John David. She went up to

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Speaker 2: them in the hallway with her big, thick, three ring

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Speaker 2: binder notebook and waked him on the forehead. My little Lucy,

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Speaker 2: she probably weighs ninety pounds, just attacked a big guy

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Speaker 2: and beat him in the head because he made fun

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Speaker 2: of John David. What I'm saying is, you don't really

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Speaker 2: hear a lot about Natalie's brother, but he was front

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Speaker 2: and center yesterday, and I cannot imagine what his life

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Speaker 2: has been like. We think of Beth so much, but

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Speaker 2: her heart, well, it's hurting. What about Natalie's brother? More

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Speaker 2: from We could go on, but I want you to

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Speaker 2: hear more from Beth Holloway today.

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Speaker 3: I can tell you with certainty that after eighteen years

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Speaker 3: Natalie's case it's solved.

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Speaker 4: As far as I'm concerned, it's over. It's over.

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Speaker 3: Uran Vandersfold is no longer the suspect in my daughter's murder.

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Speaker 4: He is the killer.

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Speaker 2: And we hear her talk about the case and whether

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Speaker 2: she's satisfied with your Vandersloot's story about how Natalie died.

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Speaker 2: Are you satisfied because I'm not. Some of it doesn't

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Speaker 2: fit together for me, but we'll get to it. Listen

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Speaker 2: to Beth.

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Speaker 3: In the course of his family prosecution here for extortion

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Speaker 3: in wire fraud indictment, he gave a proffer in which

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Speaker 3: he finally confessed that he killed Natalie. He described when

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Speaker 3: and how he killed her, and he said that after

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Speaker 3: killing her on the beach in Aruba, he put her

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Speaker 3: into the water and that was the last that he

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Speaker 3: ever saw her. That was all verified by a comprehensive

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Speaker 3: and conductive, conclusive polygraph test. Even with this confession, though,

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Speaker 3: he can't be tried here for Natalie's murder, But I'm

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Speaker 3: satisfied knowing that he did it, he did it alone,

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Speaker 3: and he disposed of her alone.

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Speaker 4: I won't give you the details of his brutal confession.

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Speaker 3: Those will be forthcoming when the proffer is made public.

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Speaker 4: You will also have details at the plea agreement which

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Speaker 4: was reached.

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Speaker 3: His sentence of the extortion and the wire fraud will

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Speaker 3: run concurrently with a sentence in Peru for killing Stephanie Flores.

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Speaker 4: And that's fine with me. Thanks to a lot of

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Speaker 4: very smart and.

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Speaker 3: Dedicated people here, I got the answer I've been searching

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Speaker 3: for for the past eighteen years.

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Speaker 2: You know, yesterday, as Cheryl McCollum and Joe Scott Morgan

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Speaker 2: and Beth's best friend Ginger Strickland, we're all in front

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Speaker 2: of the courthouse. We came straight down and hit the airwaves.

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Speaker 2: We were wondering I may know the US law like

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Speaker 2: the back of my hand. But I did not know

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Speaker 2: the Ariuba law I'm now learning. I was hoping that

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Speaker 2: your Vanderslut's confession would lead to a murder prosecution in Ariba.

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Speaker 2: It's not happening. They actually have a twelve year statute

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Speaker 2: of limitations on homicide jury. Who's jumping in? Is this

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Speaker 2: Dale del cars is with me? That's just who I need.

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Speaker 2: High profile lawyer joining us out of Jacksonville, former FBI,

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Speaker 2: former cop, author of Arrest Proof Yourself. And now he's,

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Speaker 2: as I said, a high profile criminal defense attorney. You

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Speaker 2: can find him with del Carson law. Go ahead, d'ale,

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Speaker 2: jump in. It's not going to happen, right, No.

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Speaker 6: It's not going to happen. And there's no jury down there.

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Speaker 6: And his father, of course was a judge in our route,

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Speaker 6: but down in the ABCS, so you know there are

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Speaker 6: connections there that really would argue against any additional prosecution.

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Speaker 6: Of course, he's got to go back to Venezuela and

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Speaker 6: serve the rest of his term.

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Speaker 2: Doue.

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Speaker 7: It's Peru.

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Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: The thing is del Carson jumping off what you just said.

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Speaker 2: Not only is the statue of limitations twelve years for homicide,

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Speaker 2: and it's been over twelve years. They would not prosecute

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Speaker 2: this case if I handed it to them on a

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Speaker 2: silver platter with all the evidence, if it was on

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Speaker 2: top of the Christmas tree, they would not prosecute it.

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Speaker 2: They were never going to prosecute your vanishloot. I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure why. Maybe it's because of the father who was judged.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's because how awful it is for tourism. They

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Speaker 2: never lifted a finger to help Beth when she was

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Speaker 2: there desperately trying to find her a daughter. And we

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Speaker 2: Cheryl and Ginger and Beth and I recently went back

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Speaker 2: to Aruba to try to uncover some clues we had

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Speaker 2: heard about. We had not had our feet on the

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Speaker 2: ground in the central area of Aruba downtown twenty minutes

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Speaker 2: before the Aruba police tried to arrest Beth and me.

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Speaker 2: So no way in huble l are they going to

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Speaker 2: prosecute him. They wanted to prosecute Beth and me. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl right.

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Speaker 5: That it absolutely happened, and you made the greatest point

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Speaker 5: ever you said in seventeen minutes, y'all have tried to

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Speaker 5: arrest me and bev Holloway and y'all have not done

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Speaker 5: anything to arrest him for the murder of her child

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Speaker 5: in seventeen years.

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Speaker 2: That did not get me very far. But that is

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Speaker 2: in fact what I said, and it is and was true.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about a proffer. A profer is something you

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Speaker 2: offer the court. It's not always heard by a jury.

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Speaker 2: The profer in this case is your Vandersloop's confession. And again,

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Speaker 2: did he kill did he murder Natalie? Yes, he murdered

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Speaker 2: Natalie Holloway. I'm saying that since the evidence became a

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Speaker 2: parent the week that she went missing, But we learned

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Speaker 2: so many more of the details. Also, I'm not buying

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Speaker 2: his story. Hook line and sinker, see if you agree. Listen,

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Speaker 2: I do deep hawk em fetish, get out, come with

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Speaker 2: you though.

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Speaker 8: What happened? Did Arkansattee leave? They they leave.

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Speaker 9: They go back to their home. I assume they go

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Speaker 9: back to their home. They get in their car and

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Speaker 9: they leave. I'm actually with I'm actually with Natalie walking

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Speaker 9: along the beach, I find the space before we get

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Speaker 9: to the before we get to the Marriott Hotel where

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Speaker 9: I lay her down. We lay down together in the

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Speaker 9: sand and we start kissing. Each other. I start, I

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Speaker 9: get her to kiss me again. We start kissing each

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Speaker 9: other and I start fielding her up again and she

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Speaker 9: tells me no.

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Speaker 2: And according to Vanderslie the Double Killer, yes, he also

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Speaker 2: killed a young girl in much the same scenario, Stephanie

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Speaker 2: Tossiana Floroes. He killed Flores and Peru. That's why it's

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Speaker 2: in jail over there. But this is where the trouble starts.

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Speaker 2: Right there. She said no. Listen.

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Speaker 8: It tells me she doesn't want me to feel her up.

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Speaker 8: I insist. I keep feeling her up either way, and

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Speaker 8: she needs me in the crotch.

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Speaker 9: When she needs me in the crotch, I get up

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Speaker 9: on the beach and I kick her extremely hard in

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Speaker 9: the face.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, she's laying down.

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Speaker 9: Unconscious, possibly even even dead, but definitely unconscious. And I

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Speaker 9: see right next to her, there's a there's a huge

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Speaker 9: cinder block laying on the beach.

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Speaker 2: A cinder block. Okay with me. In addition to our

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Speaker 2: all star panel, Ash Short, Senior Editor the Daily Wire,

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Speaker 2: and you can find Ash at the Daily Wire dot com.

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Speaker 2: Ash thank you for being with us and all his

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Speaker 2: many many stories in the past. I think we counted

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Speaker 2: up between eight and Chen the other day. I've never

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Speaker 2: heard him mention a cinder block or beating her with

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Speaker 2: a cinder block before.

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Speaker 10: This is a news story, right, absolutely, it's a completely

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Speaker 10: news story because he says exactly what he did. I mean,

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Speaker 10: his other stories include the lie he told best when

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Speaker 10: he extorted money out of her, where he said that

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Speaker 10: he was buried in the foundation of a house, a

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Speaker 10: house that didn't even exist at the time that she died.

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Speaker 10: I mean, they've said that they left her at the

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Speaker 10: hotel and saw security guard following her footage. Security footage

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Speaker 10: showed that was a lie. I mean, he said all

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Speaker 10: of these different things, and yes, this is the first

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Speaker 10: time a cinder block has been mentioned. And I'm right

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Speaker 10: there with you in this. Can we believe this story?

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Speaker 10: Now he said it in this proper so he's under

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Speaker 10: penalty of perjury. But this story, like any many of

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Speaker 10: his other stories, can't be corroborated. I mean, Beth mentioned

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Speaker 10: polygraph but I mean you and I both know polygraphs.

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Speaker 10: They're in admissible, they're not really reliable. And so unless

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Speaker 10: at some point back in two thousand and five, a

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Speaker 10: bloody cinder block was found and police have that there's

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Speaker 10: no way to corroborate this, and with the twelve year

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Speaker 10: statue of limitations, he won't face anything, which it's convenient

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Speaker 10: that he says it. After those the statue of limitations

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Speaker 10: has gone and it's just there's no way to prove this, So,

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Speaker 10: I mean, we can accept this. We all knew that

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Speaker 10: he did this from the beginning, because of the changing stories,

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Speaker 10: because of the life, because he was the last person

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Speaker 10: to see her, you know. But at this point, is

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Speaker 10: this actually how it happened? I mean, Aukham's razor would

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Speaker 10: kind of say yes, right, but is it actually true?

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Speaker 10: Did anyone else help him? Did the Talipo brothers help

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Speaker 10: him at all? Did his father get involved?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 10: These are things that I still have questions about it.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you ask short that and so many

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Speaker 2: other things. The only thing we can really agree on

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Speaker 2: and really know for sure is that he killed her.

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Speaker 2: The rest is a little fuzzy. I want to hear

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Speaker 2: more about that cinder block.

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Speaker 11: Listen, when you say cinder block, looking at the walls

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Speaker 11: of this place is like those.

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Speaker 9: Exact same cinder blocks. I see a huge cinder block

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Speaker 9: laying on the beach. I take this and I smash

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Speaker 9: her head in with it completely. Her face basically, you know,

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Speaker 9: collapses in. Even though it's dark, I can see her

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Speaker 9: faces collapsed in.

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Speaker 8: Afterwards, I don't exactly know what.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 9: I'm scared. I don't know what to do.

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Speaker 2: So what does he do with Natalie's body? According to him,

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Speaker 2: and you could take that with a box assault lessen.

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Speaker 9: And I decide to take her and to put her

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Speaker 9: into the ocean. So I grab her and I I

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Speaker 9: have half pool and half walk with her into the ocean.

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Speaker 8: I push her off.

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Speaker 9: I walk up about my knees into the ocean, and

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Speaker 9: I push her off into into the.

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Speaker 8: Into the into the sea.

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Speaker 9: And yeah, after that, I get out, I walk home.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe that with me is professor of forensics

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Speaker 2: at Jacksonville State University. He is the author of Blood

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Speaker 2: Beneath My Fate. More important, he is a death investigator.

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Speaker 2: He has evaluated over one thousand death scene and he's

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Speaker 2: a star on to hit podcast Body Bags with Joe

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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. Joseph Scott Morgan. It doesn't make sense to

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Speaker 2: me that he would pick up her body and walk

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Speaker 2: out to the water just place it in the water,

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Speaker 2: and that it wouldn't wash up, her body wouldn't wash

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Speaker 2: up or be spotted the next day. I find that

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Speaker 2: very difficult to believe.

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Speaker 12: Every single person on this panel, and I know within

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Speaker 12: your audience a good percentage have been to the beach. Nancy.

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Speaker 12: We know how tied works just on the surface alone.

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Speaker 12: Do you realize how far out into the surf and

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Speaker 12: pass it literally past the serf you would have to

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Speaker 12: go in order to facilitate this to get a human

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Speaker 12: remain out so far that it would not come back

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Speaker 12: into shore or land somewhere. Now, I know that we're

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Speaker 12: talking about an island. However, that's the one thing that

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Speaker 12: kind of sticks with me in this particular case. How

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Speaker 12: do you facilitate getting her remains out there so that

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Speaker 12: you can assure that they're not going to come back

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Speaker 12: in Unless the only thing I can think about, and

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Speaker 12: I put a lot of thought into this since we

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Speaker 12: left Birmingham yesterday, unless he got just incredibly lucky and

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Speaker 12: sea life took over at that point in time in

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Speaker 12: that approximate area and began to do what they do

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Speaker 12: with remains when they find them. But I'm not going

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Speaker 12: to say it's a one in a million shot, but

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Speaker 12: I think therein lies a big question. It's a conundrum

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Speaker 12: when you look at it. Logically, we heard a lot

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Speaker 12: about boats. How I think even he threw his dad

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Speaker 12: under the bus relative to his dad helped him acquire

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Speaker 12: a boat. He's alluded to these brothers having had something

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Speaker 12: to do with the boat. We know that either he

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Speaker 12: nor his dad owned a boat, and for me, it's

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Speaker 12: just an odd thing. And also one other thing, coincidentally,

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Speaker 12: is the proximity of the cinder block that he's alluded to. Now,

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Speaker 12: I have seen in fishing areas where people will beach boats,

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Speaker 12: and they will use center blocks many times to facilitate

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Speaker 12: the beaching of a boat to keep it secured so

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Speaker 12: it's not washed back out. But I'm just saying, this

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Speaker 12: is kind of a random object to find there in

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Speaker 12: this resort area, just lying on the surface of the beach.

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Speaker 12: They want to try to keep these areas pristine and

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Speaker 12: pretty so that tourists walk about. And you're telling me

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Speaker 12: there's a cinder block just happened to be laying there

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Speaker 12: immediately adjacent to Natalie's body. Is kind of odd.

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Speaker 2: Yet we are being told everything that Jurin vander Slut

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Speaker 2: said has been verified by a comprehensive and exhaustive investigation

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Speaker 2: take host on Beth Holloway speaking to that in our

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Speaker 2: cop one.

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Speaker 3: In the course of his family prosecution here for extortion

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Speaker 3: and wire fraud indictment, he gave a proffer in which

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Speaker 3: he finally confessed that he killed Natalie. He described when

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Speaker 3: and how he killed her, and he said that after

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Speaker 3: killing her on the beach in Aruba, he put her

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Speaker 3: into the water, and that was the last that he

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Speaker 3: ever saw her.

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Speaker 4: That was all verified by.

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Speaker 3: A comprehensive and conductive, conclusive polygraph test.

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Speaker 2: Joining us right now is a guest renowned in his field.

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Speaker 2: IRV Brandt is with US Senior Inspector US Marshall Service

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Speaker 2: in the International Investigations Branch, Chief and Inspector DOJ Office

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Speaker 2: of International Affairs. Author of multiple books, including Solo Shot,

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Speaker 2: Curse of the Bluestone, which was great, and Flying Solo

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Speaker 2: Top of the World. Still reading it and you can

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Speaker 2: find him on Twitter at Jack Solo, author IRV Brandt.

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Speaker 2: I'm just trying to think how this whole thing is

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Speaker 2: going to play out. There were a few contrarians yesterday

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Speaker 2: that suggested this was a bad deal, and Cheryl, you

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Speaker 2: were there Jo Scott, you were at the courthouse, Cheryl.

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Speaker 2: I was really impressed with the judge as short, if

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Speaker 2: you know anything differently as joining us from the Daily Wire.

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Speaker 2: This judge, I thought was amazing. This was an offer

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Speaker 2: from the state excepted by the defense and approved by

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Speaker 2: Beth and her family. What else can be done? Because

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Speaker 2: a few contrarians were complaining it was a bad deal

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Speaker 2: because he will never be prosecuted for murder in Aruba

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Speaker 2: because this confession cannot be used for a local prosecution.

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Speaker 2: I learned that researching last night. But the reality of

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Speaker 2: Brandt is that Aruba was never going to prosecute him.

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Speaker 2: Even if he had climbed to the top of the

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Speaker 2: Holiday Inn and screamed out I did it. They were

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Speaker 2: never going to prosecute him. They didn't care about a

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Speaker 2: missing American teen girl. They just didn't care. It was

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Speaker 2: very clear to me. I saw it with my own eyes.

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Speaker 2: They were never going to prosecute him for murder. So

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Speaker 2: confession or no confession, that's a wash to me. As

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Speaker 2: far as what can be done now, arub has been

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Speaker 2: out of the picture from the get go Peru the

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Speaker 2: judge of brand and guys jump in if you remember differently,

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Speaker 2: Karen starked, I'm gonna get your opinion on this as well.

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Speaker 2: The judge kept saying yesterday, or she kept saying that

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Speaker 2: should there be any change in your condition in Peru,

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Speaker 2: In other words, the law changed like you did here.

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Speaker 2: That's how Charles Manson has gave the death penalty. The

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Speaker 2: law changed. If the Peruvian law changes and he gets

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Speaker 2: out early, if he is paroled, if he for whatever

395
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Speaker 2: reason is out of jail, he returned to the US

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Speaker 2: to serve the rest of this twenty year sentence. Now

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Speaker 2: I guarantee you he's not going to book his own

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Speaker 2: boat over here. He would have to be found by

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Speaker 2: the US Marshal Services. Where you come in, orb Brant.

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Speaker 2: But what do you make of what is happening and

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Speaker 2: how is this going to play out when he gets

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Speaker 2: back home to Peru.

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Speaker 13: Well, Lincy, the case is now under the jurisdiction of

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Speaker 13: the United States Marshall Service. The FBI maintains jurisdiction until

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Speaker 13: the time of sentencing. And now that Urine has been

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Speaker 13: sentenced and he's been remanded to the custod of the

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Speaker 13: United States Marshall Service, he's going to be taken back

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Speaker 13: to Peru by the Marshall Service or in cooperation with

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Speaker 13: the FBI. That happens quite frequently also. But he's going

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Speaker 13: back to Peru to serve his sentence, and he's got

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Speaker 13: that federal sentence running concurrently, so it acts as a

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Speaker 13: detainer on him in any case that parole, like you said, a.

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Speaker 11: Law change, an appeal, you know, anything that could happen

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Speaker 11: that may get him released early in Peru.

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Speaker 13: It's going to default the United States, you know, to

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Speaker 13: the United States Marshall Service, going back down there, picking

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Speaker 13: them back up, bringing him back to the United States,

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Speaker 13: putting him in the Federal Bureau of Prisons to serve

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Speaker 13: the rest of his twenty year sentence. The like we

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Speaker 13: discussed previously, Aruba has no interest in him. They've never

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Speaker 13: had any interest in them. They're not going to be

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Speaker 13: asking for him when he's in Peru. And I'm highly skeptical.

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Speaker 6: That even if they did, even if they.

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Speaker 13: Said they were going to prosecute him on something. I

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Speaker 13: don't think Peru would extradite to Aruba because there'd be

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Speaker 13: a real escape. Aruba authorities may release him trial.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no way with Peru send him back to Aruba.

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Speaker 2: I mean or if you had seen the way I mean,

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Speaker 2: Cheryl bag me up on this, or if you disagree,

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Speaker 2: say so. There's no way Aruba we would have ever

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Speaker 2: prosecuted this. Even with a confession, they turned away from

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Speaker 2: the truth. I don't know why they wanted to protect

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Speaker 2: him the way that they did, other than his father

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Speaker 2: was a judge and it affected tourism. But there's no

435
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 2: way even if Peru had sent him back that they

436
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 2: would have prosecuted me. In fact, they probably would have

437
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,959
Speaker 2: engineered away. He would probably have escaped.

438
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 5: Well, they let him escape as far as I'm concerned.

439
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 5: After the extortion, they let him get on a plane

440
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 5: and go to Peru. They let him leave the island

441
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: and Nancy, they did everything in their power to help

442
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 5: cover up. If you remember, Bed did a police report

443
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 5: and when she went back to sign it, they had

444
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 5: translated it and it was in Dutch. She didn't even

445
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 5: know what she was signing. She couldn't read it.

446
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,040
Speaker 2: I do remember that, And I also remember Beth telling

447
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: us that when she was frantically looking for Natalie, she

448
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 2: went and waited, i think five hours outside the chief

449
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:28,959
Speaker 2: of Police's door his office. He finally came out and

450
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: he had been having his haircut and eating, eating while

451
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 2: his mom is out there waiting. I think five hours.

452
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,840
Speaker 2: He's behind his office door eating and having somebody cut

453
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: his hair. And his response was something like, oh, we'll

454
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,280
Speaker 2: find her. She'll turn up. And that was it.

455
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 6: But Nancy, let's talk about the profer. Though in the

456
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 6: federal system of profer is only as good as it

457
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 6: is truthful. What that means to me is the defense

458
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 6: attorney is that he hasn't told the empirety of your crew.

459
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 6: In other words, they're lies connected with it. It can

460
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 6: later be to through two co conspirators that clearly were

461
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 6: involved and should have been charged with some sort of

462
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 6: assisting in the homicide.

463
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: Oh hey, I'm glad you said that. Hold on, del Carson,

464
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 2: I want you to hear more of what Jorn vander

465
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 2: Slut said from the horse's mouth about the two co defenders.

466
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 2: Do you notice how in this which I believe to

467
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 2: be largely let me just say embellish to protect his

468
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:42,560
Speaker 2: father and the Kalipo brothers. The father is dead, Yourn

469
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 2: Vanderslute gave his dat a heart attack. The Kalpo brothers

470
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: are very much alive and could tell the truth. So

471
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: he manages to clear them of any involvement. Take a listen,

472
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: ower Cup one two for this is your vanderslout.

473
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 14: In his own words, Puss, she asked to go back

474
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 14: to her hotel, But I was just trying to get

475
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 14: dropped off a little bit further away from her hotel

476
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 14: so we could walk back to her hotel.

477
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 8: And I might still get a chance to be with her.

478
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 8: That's what I was hoping for. Okay, So what happens.

479
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 9: Yeah, the puck drops me off at a place a

480
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,239
Speaker 9: little right of the of the Marriott hotel known as

481
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 9: the Fishermen's Huts. This place, it's not so far from

482
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 9: you know. The next hotel is the Marriott. In the

483
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 9: next hotel after that is another Marriott, which is a timeshare,

484
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 9: and then it's the holiday and.

485
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 8: Well we walk along the beach.

486
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: So there, you say, he's protecting them so they'll never

487
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 2: go back on him and say what really happened that night.

488
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: Regardless hearing this and knowing this evidence about the cinder

489
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 2: block and what was done to her daughter, Beth Holloway

490
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 2: manages to put on a good face and stay strong,

491
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 2: becoming somewhat of a symbol to parents all over the

492
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: country whose children have been murdered. Let's now recut one

493
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 2: three six. This is Beth Holloway.

494
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 4: It feels victorious.

495
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 3: I feel like you finally begin to transition from the

496
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: victim to the victor, and it begins to make the

497
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 3: pain and suffering feel somewhat less intense because you are here.

498
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 3: You are at this point the pinnacle of the journey,

499
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 3: and you've gotten justice and you've gotten the answers you've

500
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 3: been so desperately seeking. So it felt victorious.

501
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 2: And more in one three five.

502
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 3: This has been the most unimaginable journey, and I know

503
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 3: everyone has been with us on this and we were

504
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 3: so appreciative of it. But for us to finally put

505
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 3: this to rest and be as I said, it's better

506
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,440
Speaker 3: than closure because our never ending nightmare had to end.

507
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 3: And we are so grateful that we can say that

508
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,920
Speaker 3: today that it is over.

509
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 15: And that is getting justice for Natalie.

510
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace joining us is or.

511
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 2: Now psychologist, TV and radio trauma expert consultant Karen Stark

512
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: Karen with a c at Karen dot com. Karen, I

513
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: know Beth was being brave, and she was incredibly brave

514
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. In fact, there was one point Cheryl

515
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: tell Karen about when Beth Allway turned around and what

516
00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: she said to Vandersloot.

517
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 5: She looked right at him and said, you don't look

518
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 5: good your hands. I don't think you're gonna make it.

519
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: You look like hell, I don't think you're gonna make it.

520
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 2: And he did, Karen Stark, he looked so dissipated, nothing

521
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: like he has ever looked in any of the videos

522
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 2: or the photos we've seen before. This looked like an

523
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,359
Speaker 2: old guy that has been drinking too much, having too

524
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: many drugs, eating too much. Behind bars. We know he's

525
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: fathered I think two children behind bars, he's gotten married,

526
00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 2: has gotten divorced for a younger woman. Where do you

527
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: meet a younger woman behind bars? Anyway, he looks nothing

528
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,800
Speaker 2: like he did when he murdered Natalie, when she turned

529
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 2: around and looked at him and went, you look like hell.

530
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,760
Speaker 2: I don't think you're gonna make it. But my question

531
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: to you, Karen Stark, is it's like a performance. It's

532
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 2: okay to keep your game face and stay strong. And

533
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,040
Speaker 2: it was a long, grueling day for her, and a

534
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 2: day that she's probably dreamed off for many many years.

535
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 2: But I find it hard to believe that at night,

536
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,760
Speaker 2: when she puts her head on that pillow, she doesn't

537
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 2: think about her girl, Nancy.

538
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,879
Speaker 16: She will never ever stop thinking about her girl, which

539
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,879
Speaker 16: she said. And I feel like she really needed this

540
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,719
Speaker 16: to be closure for her, to be the end.

541
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 2: You know, there's no closure for a crime victim. I

542
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,879
Speaker 2: don't know why you keep saying that. Karen Stark, Well, she.

543
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 16: Needed some kind of finality. She needed this to be

544
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 16: the end. She needed to hear him say that he

545
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,120
Speaker 16: killed her. And let's face it, Nancy, listen to his voice.

546
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 16: This is a man who has no feelings. He could

547
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,759
Speaker 16: be reciting a book, reading a poem to us, no

548
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 16: feelings at all. He went home, he watched TV, he

549
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 16: watched porn.

550
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: WHOA hold on Mustang? Sally, Wait a minute, can you

551
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 2: say that a look a little bit more slowly.

552
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 5: Well, that's what we heard, that he went home.

553
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,439
Speaker 2: We heard what we heard that he went home.

554
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 16: That he looked at soccer scores, that he watched horn.

555
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 16: It reminds me of when he killed Floris and he

556
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 16: ate breakfast and took his shower, no ceiling.

557
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: With her dead body lying right there on the hotel room.

558
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 16: Floor right there, right there, and I doesn't and I

559
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 16: found it doesn't interesting?

560
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: Is that ass jump in?

561
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 5: Yeah?

562
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 10: In the courtroom yesterday, Vanderslleut reportedly said that you know,

563
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 10: I'm not the man I was back then, and that

564
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 10: a way that stuck out to me, because the man

565
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 10: you were back when in two thousand and five when

566
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,880
Speaker 10: you killed Natalie Holloway, or the man you were in

567
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 10: twenty ten when you extorted her family and then murdered Flora.

568
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 10: When did you have this change? And when did it

569
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 10: happen happy to occur after the statute of limitations and

570
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 10: he did in vaccine? Why does he have no feeling

571
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 10: and now confessing when if you had this changed and

572
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,840
Speaker 10: he was a new person, why didn't you say anything?

573
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 4: Then?

574
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: You know what, it's really interesting the timing as short

575
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 2: ass joining us in the daily wire. You're absolutely right.

576
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,560
Speaker 2: He suddenly has a change of heart and actually brings

577
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 2: up that he has now met Christ behind bars, and

578
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm all for that and he can

579
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 2: minister to other inmates behind bars for the rest of

580
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: his life. But he just had to get that in.

581
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 2: Is that you, Karen start.

582
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 16: Go ahead, Yes, it is, because there's no way that

583
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 16: he changed.

584
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 5: It's not possible.

585
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 16: We are talking about somebody who was a murder of psychopath.

586
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 5: He doesn't change.

587
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 16: And I want to add something that whole story with

588
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,320
Speaker 16: the cinder block. I feel as he was looking around

589
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 16: and he saw cinder blocks, and then he said, oh,

590
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 16: you know, that would be a good thing to put

591
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 16: into my story. I'll mention a cinder block, because we

592
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 16: can't believe a single thing that he said.

593
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 2: There was a moment in that courtroom that really twisted

594
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:10,800
Speaker 2: my heart when Beth was describing how Natalie will always

595
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 2: be alive for her, that she's frozen in time at

596
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,520
Speaker 2: eighteen with the world before her. Now that was not

597
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:24,000
Speaker 2: being recorded. I can only do a secondhand version of

598
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,400
Speaker 2: what Beth really said, but she said something to that

599
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,959
Speaker 2: effect after court. Listen to our one three eight.

600
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: Natalie was a very bright, very smart, dedicated young lady.

601
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 4: She was on her way to college.

602
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 3: She was headed to medical school after that, and.

603
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 4: I have no doubt she would have made it all

604
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 4: the way.

605
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 3: So we love her, we miss her very much, and

606
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,279
Speaker 3: we wake up every morning with thoughts of Natalie. But

607
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,800
Speaker 3: now we wake up knowing that we have reached justice

608
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 3: for Natalie.

609
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 4: She was truly the best sister I could have ever

610
00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 4: asked for.

611
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Kosha feels so bad from Matt Holloway, the brother

612
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 2: and all that family has been through our Brant. You're

613
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 2: the US Marshall's expert. Tell me again, if his sentence

614
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 2: is reduced for any reason in Peru, will we get

615
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,359
Speaker 2: him back to serve the remainder of the twenty years

616
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 2: he just got in the Hugo Black Federal Courthouse on extortion.

617
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 13: Absolutely nanty the Office of International Affairs and cooperating with

618
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:36,399
Speaker 13: the proving government. We'll keep track of this case and

619
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,520
Speaker 13: they will be notified by Peru if for some reason

620
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 13: his release state changes and the United States Marshall Service

621
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 13: would go down there, get them, bring them back to

622
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 13: the United States, and he would be placed in a

623
00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:02,000
Speaker 13: bure prisons facility to finish his senate He's going to

624
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 13: do the next twenty years.

625
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: This guy needs to be in sapromax are brand not

626
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 2: conjugal visits and a jug of wine over in his

627
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: Peruvian penthouse in the prison. As short I believe I

628
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:18,479
Speaker 2: heard the number of twenty forty three. Is that when

629
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 2: he could be released?

630
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 10: Yes, but he was sentenced to twenty eight years for

631
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,359
Speaker 10: the murder, but he was also I believe, given an

632
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 10: additional eighteen years because he was selling drugs in prison.

633
00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 10: I don't know if that's running concurrent, so I mean

634
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 10: it could be a long time, but there is a

635
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 10: finality to his sentence, So twenty forty three.

636
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 13: Yes.

637
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 10: And the thing when I go back to him saying

638
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 10: he's a changed man. If he hadn't been captured for

639
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 10: Stephanie Flores's death, I mean, this guy would have been

640
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 10: an international serial killer, right, Like what would have stopped him?

641
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right? Now, wonder have there been other victims?

642
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 10: Right exactly? Because we know, okay, Aruba, have other people

643
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 10: gone missing? What about in Peru the time after he

644
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 10: extorted Natalie's mother, the FBI and Aruba police like allowed

645
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 10: him to go to Columbia. So is anybody missing in Columbia?

646
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 10: You know? I mean these other places. And him saying

647
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 10: that he's a changed person, like if he gets out,

648
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 10: I don't see him just going and living a quiet

649
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,879
Speaker 10: life or anything. I mean, this is a person who,

650
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,240
Speaker 10: at seventeen years old was turned down by a woman

651
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 10: and kicked her in the space, and then his thoughts

652
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 10: were to murder her.

653
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if we need any other evidence, then

654
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:46,799
Speaker 2: what Ash Short is giving us. Just Scott Morgan, it's

655
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 2: been in the last handful of years that he impregnated

656
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:56,120
Speaker 2: a woman from behind bars, married her, had at least

657
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 2: one I think two children with her, and then dumped

658
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 2: her for a younger jail visitor. Don't the mother of

659
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 2: his two children for a younger woman. I mean, this

660
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:08,760
Speaker 2: guy has not changed.

661
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:11,680
Speaker 12: No, he hasn't. And here here's the thing. You know,

662
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 12: when you compare what happened to this poor woman, Stephanie

663
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,280
Speaker 12: in Peru, the brutality. You know, some people have described

664
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 12: that scene as being a wash and blood. It's not

665
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 12: too far removed from the trauma that he's talking about

666
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 12: that that he inflicted upon Natalie at that moment in

667
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 12: tom But I do have one more thought about this Nancy,

668
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 12: relative to this kind of serial behavior that he's engaged in.

669
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:44,640
Speaker 12: We've heard a lot about hibbinol GHB date rape drug,

670
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,799
Speaker 12: and I really wonder Nancy, after all these years, if

671
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,280
Speaker 12: he's if he was bold enough to perpetrate this and

672
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 12: in that environment in which he had, he apparently just

673
00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,640
Speaker 12: had free reign. You know, I talked about being a

674
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 12: spoiled brat down there being facilitated by you know, he's feral,

675
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 12: is essentially what it comes down to. I really wonder.

676
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 12: One of the profiles that was put forth, and some

677
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 12: of the things that have been suggested about him, is

678
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 12: that he would track women that he knew we're leaving

679
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 12: like the next day, and the bartenders were onto it,

680
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 12: Taxi drivers were onto it, hotel managers perhaps were onto it.

681
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 12: How many of these women, How many of these poor

682
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 12: women out there did he attack on their last night

683
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,720
Speaker 12: in Aruba? And just out of pure shame, these women

684
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 12: got on a plane just wanting to put that behind them,

685
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,799
Speaker 12: and they never spoke a word about it. Nancy, how

686
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 12: many other women are out there that this guy victimized?

687
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Dale, Joseph.

688
00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 6: That's a really excellent point, because in those areas where

689
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 6: people go to visit, like Aruba, it's not unusual for

690
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 6: there'd be a concept of individuals who prey on those tourists,

691
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,879
Speaker 6: and that's something that everyone wants to suppress because it's

692
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 6: in the better interests of these communities that live on

693
00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 6: tourism to not have that exposed at all. But it

694
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 6: was certainly true when I was working in the Virgin Islands,

695
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 6: and those systems were in place and had been there

696
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 6: for quite some period of time. And it's not unlike

697
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 6: a school of fish. If you're around a school of

698
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 6: baked fish, you will see in the perimeters the arracuda

699
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 6: just mysteriously appearing and disappearing because they're waiting for our meal.

700
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 6: And that's vandersloop.

701
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 5: Nancy, I got to jump in here, go ahead, dear.

702
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 5: I want to remind everybody that they recovered human bones

703
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 5: that were mixed with dog bones, and then Ruba just

704
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 5: let that.

705
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: Go and they were were they of a female European descent? Correct?

706
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 2: So who was that and how did he know they

707
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: were there? Which tells me there's another victim exactly right.

708
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 5: So if you look at his he gets females alone,

709
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 5: he isolates them from their group, He gives them the GHB.

710
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 5: He attempts sex with them. Then these two victims stepany

711
00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 5: floors and Natalie Holloway refused him. He bludgeoned them first

712
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,760
Speaker 5: with a part of his body, then picked up an object,

713
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 5: in both cases on the same date, causing great bloodshed.

714
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 5: These were impulsive acts, and again he beat them until

715
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,839
Speaker 5: they were dead and then in one regard he went home,

716
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 5: watched TV, watch porn. In the other he went and

717
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 5: had breakfast like it.

718
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: Was nothing, absolutely nothing. The words from Beth Holloway will

719
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 2: forever ring in my mind, and my mind and my heart.

720
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 2: Natalie will be forever eighteen goodbye friend,