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Speaker 1: Bushkin. Hey everybody, it's me w Cabell. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: week eight of my new podcast, Who's with Me? How

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Speaker 1: long can a podcast be new? I feel like until

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Speaker 1: it's been around like Dull episode twenty, I feel like

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Speaker 1: that's still new anyway. Today's guest is the Amazing the Balletic,

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Speaker 1: literally the Balletic, the ballet dancer Misty Copeland. Missy Copland

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Speaker 1: has the distinction of being the first African American principal

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Speaker 1: dancer at the American Ballet Theater. She is now retired

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Speaker 1: from that theater, but not retired from dancing. We talk

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Speaker 1: about that a lot in this episode, the difference between

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Speaker 1: being retired from one thing but not being retired from

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Speaker 1: the thing you love to do, which for her is

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Speaker 1: spreading the word of ballet to black and brown girls.

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Speaker 1: She talks about her foundation, the Misty Copland Foundation, which

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Speaker 1: has that man before we get into what I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about today. Also, remember I got stand up dates.

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Speaker 1: You can go to my website wcmout bell dot com.

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Speaker 1: We got some dates coming up in Bellingham, Washington in

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Speaker 1: the fall. Got a date coming up at Stanford University.

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Speaker 1: I don't know the dates. Their way in the fall,

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Speaker 1: just go to my website wcmout bell dot com get

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Speaker 1: those tickets if you're in one of those areas. Again,

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Speaker 1: they come up in the fall September October ish. But

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Speaker 1: today it is day Monday after July fourth, which I

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Speaker 1: think makes it the sixth of July. You know, holidays

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Speaker 1: are weird. You get your days all confused. Yesterday's one

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Speaker 1: of those days where I asked my wife what day

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Speaker 1: is today? Like I know the date, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know the day. It was Sunday, So today is the

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Speaker 1: Monday after the big America Birthday party. Here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: So I was three years old when the Bisentennial happened,

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Speaker 1: which I don't remember it. But what I do remember

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Speaker 1: is that for several years after the bi centennial there

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Speaker 1: were still talk and memories about the Bisonennial. The big

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Speaker 1: thing we had was a two dollars bill and I

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Speaker 1: guess they're still out there, but that was around. A

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Speaker 1: lot after that there was also just like T shirts

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Speaker 1: and memorabilia. There's a lot of like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: just stuff and talk and I guess it's hard to

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Speaker 1: say pride, but about the bizentennial, it really made a

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Speaker 1: big impact on American culture. This made an impact, but

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Speaker 1: not the kind I think that we thought it was

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Speaker 1: going to have when we look forward to this date

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Speaker 1: in the past. Not that I'm some big raw raw

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Speaker 1: America guy, but you just would have thought it would

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Speaker 1: be easier to have America celebrate itself. But not with

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump in office. There's not a lot of collector's

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Speaker 1: items that are going to come out of the America

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Speaker 1: two fifty. I'm sorry the Freedom Too fifty celebration. It's

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Speaker 1: important to say Freedom to fifty America two fifty was

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Speaker 1: the nonprofit that was founded, the non partisan nonprofit that

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Speaker 1: was founded to help us celebrate America's tw hundred fifteth

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Speaker 1: birthday party. But Donald Trump and his people started Freedom

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Speaker 1: two fifty, which was definitely a for profit, partisan operation

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Speaker 1: to make sure they funneled all the money to them. Yeah. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's not gonna be a lot of collectives items out

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Speaker 1: of the celebration. I think we have a lot of

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Speaker 1: collective grief about the state of this country. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. It's really interesting. I sort of was, you know,

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Speaker 1: not looking forward to July fourth. I mean, me and

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Speaker 1: my family do a thing we do every year. We

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Speaker 1: hang out with my wife's siblings and my kids cousins.

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Speaker 1: It's very sort of like Middle America. It's in the

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Speaker 1: part of California where you're allowed to shoot fireworks off

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Speaker 1: in the streets where it's legal. So it's very like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we do like the like like not a barbecue,

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Speaker 1: you know, but like we fribes some hot dogs and hamburgers,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, not like you don't say

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Speaker 1: barbecue and confuse anybody out there about a real part.

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Speaker 1: Now it's it's appropriate, it's great, it's a great time.

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Speaker 1: But when I was looking forward to this, I just

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Speaker 1: thought there'd be a lot of you know something. There

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Speaker 1: was a lot of anything other than a lot of

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Speaker 1: white nationalists who showed up in the DC area to

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Speaker 1: do some of that uh say it loud, I'm white

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Speaker 1: and I'm proud stuff that they like to do. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you've seen the footage, but there's been

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Speaker 1: There were these masked men wearing white masks, uh, and

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Speaker 1: sunglasses and and and beige baseball caps and and black

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Speaker 1: sort of like blue polos and khaki pants. It looked

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Speaker 1: like casual ku Klux Klan Friday. But in this case,

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Speaker 1: casual spelled with a K. Yeah. So a bunch of

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Speaker 1: these guys showed up on July fourth. They'd been showing

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Speaker 1: around the country. Apparently they're the Patriot Front, and a

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Speaker 1: really powerful photo came out of it. It's a photo

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Speaker 1: of the of these Patriot Front, the casual Ku Klux Klan,

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Speaker 1: all on the DC Metro, which is like the DC

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Speaker 1: Subway if you don't know. And they are packed on

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Speaker 1: the DC Subway, all of them, because they're going to

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Speaker 1: their their clan rally. And there's a black woman who's

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Speaker 1: sitting on the subway sort of looking at the guy

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Speaker 1: who's taking a picture of her. And the photo has

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Speaker 1: gone everywhere. It's gone viral. There's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: talk about that photo. She's currently still unnamed, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have heralded her for her bravery and courage.

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Speaker 1: She was certainly brave and courageous to sit there. But

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Speaker 1: the biggest thing I look at is a person who's like,

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Speaker 1: what the fuck am I gonna do now? The look

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Speaker 1: in her eye she looks at the guy taking the

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Speaker 1: photo is like, hey man, you gonna put that camera

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Speaker 1: down and help. Yes, she is super brave. I'm not

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Speaker 1: taking that away. From her. But I think by looking

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Speaker 1: at the bravery, we're also skipping past the humanity of

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Speaker 1: a person who is surrounded by virulent racists as she's

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Speaker 1: just trying to live her life. And it really just

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Speaker 1: sort of struck me that it is once again another

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Speaker 1: black person in this country who ends up in a

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Speaker 1: photo that is going to define an era, and it's

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Speaker 1: gonna end up in history books. I'm sure it's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna win up some prizes, and it's a photo of

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Speaker 1: a black person who's just trying to live their life

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Speaker 1: and get to their day. You know. I think about

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Speaker 1: like Ruby Bridges being trying to go to schools, surrounded

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Speaker 1: by like state troopers to get her in and out

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Speaker 1: of school safely. I think about the black folks who

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Speaker 1: were just sitting at lunch counters trying to order sandwiches

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Speaker 1: or trying to order lunch, and suddenly there's white people

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Speaker 1: yelling at him. There's that picture in Arkansas of all

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Speaker 1: these white people yelling at these black people trying to

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Speaker 1: go to school in the back as a very young

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Speaker 1: Jerry Jones, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys, who was like,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't a racist, I was just curious game, Jerry Jones, Sure,

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Speaker 1: you know there's We're just say my favorite, But my

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Speaker 1: favorite photo of American racism is the one out of

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Speaker 1: Boston called the Soiling of Old Glory, where it is

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Speaker 1: a black man who I later found out found out

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Speaker 1: last year was a lawyer who was going to headed

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Speaker 1: to work and he just happened to be working where

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Speaker 1: they were white people in Boston. Racist white people were

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Speaker 1: having a rally because they were mad about the integration

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Speaker 1: of the Boston public school system, and so they were

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Speaker 1: having a racist rally. And this black guy in a

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Speaker 1: suit is just going to work and there is a

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Speaker 1: white guy who apparently is swinging an American flag at him.

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Speaker 1: But the way the picture caught it look like he's

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Speaker 1: about to stab the guy stab the black man with

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Speaker 1: the American flag. That's my favorite. If I had to

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Speaker 1: say favorite, I'm doing scare quotes if you can't see

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Speaker 1: picture of American racism. But this is the black guy

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Speaker 1: in a suit who is just you know, has achieved

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Speaker 1: high in life and is doing the best he can

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Speaker 1: and suddenly his day is interrupted by American racism and

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Speaker 1: the flag, the American flag is being used as a

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Speaker 1: weapon on him. So yeah, I just feel bad for

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Speaker 1: this black woman because this is the story she's going

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Speaker 1: to tell for the rest of her life. I mean,

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Speaker 1: somebody's gonna identify her. You can't be anonymous for long,

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Speaker 1: even if you want to be, and now she's just

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Speaker 1: gonna be. I mean, all I can hope is that

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Speaker 1: she's able to monetize it, which is a weird thing

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Speaker 1: to say that she doesn't just yeah, you were in

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Speaker 1: the photo. Anyway, the photographer's making money, Reuters, the news

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Speaker 1: organizations making money give it you just you just tell

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Speaker 1: your story, you know. So it's just anyway. I bring

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Speaker 1: all that up to say because on July third, a

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Speaker 1: giant news story drop, which I feel like, even by

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Speaker 1: Monday is already like sort of not landed the way

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Speaker 1: it should have. A representative Jared Huffman, who's a congressman

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Speaker 1: out of California who I had never heard of before.

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Speaker 1: He dropped a ten minute YouTube video and a fifty

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Speaker 1: five page report which you can see on House gov

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Speaker 1: House dot gov that is titled from Vanity to Insanity,

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Speaker 1: How the White House cheated the American people out of

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Speaker 1: their two hundred and fiftieth birthday, which actually feeds into

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Speaker 1: the thing I'm talking about, how it just didn't feel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we knew, like there was a concerts where

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Speaker 1: artists dropped out, and you know, there's all the footage

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Speaker 1: coming out of like those women rehearsing on the stage,

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Speaker 1: dancing and a piece of the stage falls off. We

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Speaker 1: knew this was not being run well. But he put

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Speaker 1: out a fifty five paid report, Jared Huffman saying that

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Speaker 1: this whole thing was basically a shell company Freedom two

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Speaker 1: fifty and a criminal operation from Stem to Stern, which

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Speaker 1: is no surprise, but just the level of detail that

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Speaker 1: Jared Huffman has put out there that to me, the

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Speaker 1: biggest thing is that, oh, this is a crime right now.

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Speaker 1: It's not like inappropriate or not presidential. It's an active,

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Speaker 1: ongoing crime scene. And I made a video for it.

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Speaker 1: We can link that in the show notes. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things I said is like, I would love

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Speaker 1: it for the country's birthday of that the president was arrested.

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Speaker 1: Come on, Democrats, what are you doing? I said, democrats,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing? And a lot of people were like,

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Speaker 1: democrats aren't in power, They're not in control. I don't

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Speaker 1: ever understand that because you always got to be doing

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Speaker 1: something to get ready to be in control, or you

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Speaker 1: got to be doing things to plan and strategize. I mean,

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Speaker 1: as a black person in this country, we would be

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Speaker 1: nowhere if our ancestors should be like, well, what are

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Speaker 1: we going to do? We don't have any power, we're enslaved.

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Speaker 1: What are we going to do? So I don't ever

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Speaker 1: subscribe to the like there's nothing you can do. There's

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Speaker 1: always something you can do, especially if you're in the

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Speaker 1: type of leadership positions and power positions that democrats that

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Speaker 1: democrats are in, whether they're not in power scare quotes. Again,

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Speaker 1: you have power, you're in a very privileged position. Again,

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Speaker 1: I live in the barriers. So my congresswoman is Latifa Simon.

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Speaker 1: I know she's working hard to get her ducks in

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Speaker 1: a row when it's time to get that man. So

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Speaker 1: just but it just feels like people are so apt

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Speaker 1: to just like, well, the Republicans don't respect the you know,

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Speaker 1: the rules and laws and power. Why are Democrats will

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Speaker 1: be like, we got to wait till November before we

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Speaker 1: can do anything about this man destroying our country from

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Speaker 1: the inside out. In the video I made actually also

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece for my sub stack where I compare

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Speaker 1: all this to that scene in Goodfellows where Henry Hill

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Speaker 1: talks about how the mob will enjoy hanging out at

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Speaker 1: a restaurant, and then they'll take over the restaurant, and

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Speaker 1: they will take advantage of all the restaurant's resources until

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Speaker 1: they finally put so much debt on the restaurant and

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Speaker 1: do so many crimes in the restaurant that they have

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Speaker 1: to burn the restaurant down. And that's what Freedom to

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Speaker 1: fifty was. Donald Trump's burning down of America as a

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Speaker 1: way to make himself more money. So I don't think

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Speaker 1: we just stand here and let him burn it down.

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Speaker 1: What can you do? What can you do? You're listening

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Speaker 1: right now, I would say, first of all, on a

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Speaker 1: very basic level, make sure you're registered to vote, just

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Speaker 1: to make sure that when your election comes you're ready

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Speaker 1: to do something. So maybe and then the big thing

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Speaker 1: is also register the people in your life around you

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Speaker 1: who aren't registered to vote, like you can do it.

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Speaker 1: You can hand them your phone, you can take it

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Speaker 1: to vote dot org and just hey here registered to vote.

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Speaker 1: You can just next time you're all together, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: start doing that next time with all my wife's family.

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Speaker 1: I say always family, just because that's most of the

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Speaker 1: family I got out here. But uh, you know, just

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Speaker 1: take that and just say, hey, why'd you register to vote?

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Speaker 1: Real quick? Are you registered? Just registered? Vote? It's not

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Speaker 1: about asking them who they're voting for. Just register them

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Speaker 1: to vote, get them thinking about it. And also again,

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Speaker 1: let your congress people know, let your state, your senators know,

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Speaker 1: let your mayor know. You know, be polite, but call

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Speaker 1: them on those numbers you can do. And there's a

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Speaker 1: thing called five calls dot org which will help you

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Speaker 1: make calls to anybody you want to your representatives to

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Speaker 1: let them know you're not happy about this. And you'd

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Speaker 1: like the president to be not just impeached because that

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Speaker 1: does nothing, but also like you know, arrested and pulled

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Speaker 1: out of office. You know, you can't arrest the president.

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Speaker 1: There's so many things the right does every day that

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Speaker 1: you can't do. I'm ready for some can't on this

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Speaker 1: side of things anyway. Today's episode is with the awesome,

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Speaker 1: the incredible Misty Copelan. We talk about her career, We

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Speaker 1: talk about her collaborations with a man named Prince Rogers Nelson.

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Speaker 1: We talk about actually I talk a lot about the

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Speaker 1: beef with Timothy shallow May. I don't think she had

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Speaker 1: beef with Timo Timothy shallowmey, but remember Timothy shallow May

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Speaker 1: basically said that like ballet was a dead art when

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Speaker 1: he was doing his Oscar campaign. That campaign didn't go well.

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Speaker 1: I wonder why. But yeah, So Timothy shallow May and

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Speaker 1: I talk a lot of with that because she had

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Speaker 1: some clap back forward and also she performed at the

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Speaker 1: Oscars doing ballet at the Oscars, so we talked about that,

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Speaker 1: and we also talk about her want to make sure

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Speaker 1: that ballet is more open and accessible to black and

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Speaker 1: brown girls, and even through emojis in the color of

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Speaker 1: ballet shoes. So mistery Hoping is a ballet revolutionary. Enjoy

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Speaker 1: the episode. Hey, thanks for watching an episode of Who's

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Speaker 1: with Me. If you're on YouTube, please like and subscribe, share,

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Speaker 1: hit that hype button. I hear it makes all the difference.

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Speaker 1: Please like, subscribe, share, hit the hype button. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: Focome my podcast. I started like we're in the middle

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Speaker 1: of it. I always start by giving people their flowers,

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Speaker 1: and you're one of those people where it's like there's

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Speaker 1: too many. I mean, it's just so many flowers to give,

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Speaker 1: but I want to start specifically because as I started,

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Speaker 1: I may have been out of the loop. When you

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Speaker 1: popped up at the Oscars, I felt like I hadn't

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Speaker 1: been told. I wasn't ready. Me and my whole fame

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Speaker 1: were like, wait, what is that, missy. I'm on my

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Speaker 1: phone like trying to figure you, to figure it out

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Speaker 1: and talk about such a moment of triumph h and

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Speaker 1: also such an unexpected and deserved moment, you know, for

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Speaker 1: you to like sort of like and also the then

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Speaker 1: the cherry on top of it, like of Timothy Shallow maybe,

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Speaker 1: and they're like having to like yay, ballet yay, just

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Speaker 1: what I wanted on a night where I didn't win,

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Speaker 1: but like, just there are many times I think of

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Speaker 1: this about ballet dancers. As you know, my wife Melissa

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Speaker 1: is a contemporary answer. Just the athletic achievement alone, forget

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Speaker 1: the tech, forget the beauty, just putting inside the beauty,

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Speaker 1: but just the like as as somebody who follows sports,

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Speaker 1: and and as much as I don't like I don't

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Speaker 1: like Lebron James because I'm support a different team sports,

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Speaker 1: don't like him, but like to see him at his

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Speaker 1: age do what he's doing. Like, I think I like

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Speaker 1: him a little bit now, just because now now I'm

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Speaker 1: seeing him do things that have to be a little

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Speaker 1: impressed to know what you had gone through with your

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Speaker 1: with your surgery, and then you just be like you,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the oscars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I mean it was definitely not how

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Speaker 2: I imagined I would come back to the stage. And

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Speaker 2: when I would come back to the stage, you know,

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Speaker 2: I was thinking I had my hip replacement surgery at

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Speaker 2: the end of December.

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Speaker 1: I mean, just like a dramatic pause, because that's the

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Speaker 1: thing that when people hear about, it's usually somebody who's

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Speaker 1: you know, older people, and it's not so they can

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Speaker 1: start to do pirouettes again, so they negotiate their way

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Speaker 1: up and downstairs and walk to and walk to and

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Speaker 1: from the kitchen. Yeah, it's not generally a thing. So

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Speaker 1: you can get back into like the highest level of

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Speaker 1: athletic achievement possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, I mean, you know, and the surgery, like

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Speaker 2: all of it kind of just happened like pretty quick.

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Speaker 2: I had my farewell performance leaving American Ballet Theater after

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Speaker 2: a twenty five year career there in October of twenty five,

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, and was having some hip pain and

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Speaker 2: was in a lot of pain actually during that my

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Speaker 2: final performance and then afterwards was the first time that

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Speaker 2: I heard that they I would need a hip replacement. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, my and my plans, you know, even just

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Speaker 2: stepping away from America Mallley Theater, whether I would have

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Speaker 2: had a hip replacement or not, my plan was to

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Speaker 2: kind of just like take a beat, take a pause,

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Speaker 2: and maybe in twenty twenty seven come back to the stage.

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Speaker 2: And so when Ryan Coogler's scene called and they're like,

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Speaker 2: you know it's been it was a little under three

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Speaker 2: months after my hip surgery, and uh, and they were like,

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Speaker 2: you know, Ryan really would want you to be a

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Speaker 2: part of this moment and what it what it meant

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Speaker 2: for the film, what it meant for Sinners in that

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Speaker 2: incredible scene where you know you kind of see this

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Speaker 2: like lineage and history of of of dance and music

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Speaker 2: and indigenous dance in music in America, black dance and

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Speaker 2: black music. You know, uh, that scene, you know he

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Speaker 2: said that I was, you know, a part of the

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Speaker 2: inspiration for like the black ballerina who's in it, and

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Speaker 2: even what she's wearing was inspired by the ballet Firebird,

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Speaker 2: and so he was like, this is the moment, Like

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Speaker 2: you've got to be on this stage, like you know,

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Speaker 2: for all that it represents. And so I was like, listen.

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Speaker 2: He was like, you could just stand there. You don't

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Speaker 2: have to dance. You could just walk out and stand

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Speaker 2: there and it'll mean so much. And I was like, boy,

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Speaker 2: I can't just walk out of stand You.

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Speaker 1: Could just walk out, just maybe with your walk.

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Speaker 2: I was like, listen, I'm gonna say yes, but I

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Speaker 2: don't know what I'll be able to do. And so

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Speaker 2: I went into the basement, got my point, she's out.

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Speaker 2: They were locked up. I was like, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna need these again. And so I was like

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Speaker 2: totally because I was not planning on using them for

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Speaker 2: some time, and flew out to La went into the

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Speaker 2: studio with all of these incredible artists that were on

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Speaker 2: the stage and was like, let me see what I

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Speaker 2: can do and uh, and you know, you know, there

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Speaker 2: was a bigger purpose I think for being a part

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Speaker 2: of that and what it meant for Ryan that night,

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Speaker 2: what it meant for Michael B. Jordan, what it meant

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Speaker 2: for Black artists and creators at the Oscars, and it

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Speaker 2: was it was worth me, you know, putting them on again.

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Speaker 1: There's a somewhat viral video from from like this year

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan, not Michael B. Jordan. I guess

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Speaker 1: I gotta say it.

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Speaker 2: Michael Jordan.

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Speaker 1: Michael Beer. The first Michael Jordan that we knew about, Like,

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Speaker 1: told the story about being in an airbnb and there

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Speaker 1: was a basketball hoop in the backyard and the family

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Speaker 1: who owned the house was somehow there and they asked

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Speaker 1: him if he would if he would shoot a free throw,

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Speaker 1: and he talked about the pressure he felt in that moment,

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Speaker 1: but it was like as if the guy who had

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Speaker 1: accomplished all bits you have to make this. Yeah, there's

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Speaker 1: like a little kid, Jordan Jersey, and it's like all

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Speaker 1: the things Michael Jordan has done, he feels He said

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Speaker 1: he felt pressure in that moment, as if it was

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Speaker 1: like the playoffs and he had to hit like a

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Speaker 1: game winning three pointer. But this was a free throw

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Speaker 1: in the backyard. I get and I sort of thought

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Speaker 1: about that and this is like, hmm, I have to

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Speaker 1: come out and do the and somehow do the thing

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Speaker 1: that I'm known for even though and you weren't as

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Speaker 1: you weren't gone as long as Michael, but you also

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Speaker 1: went to you know, yeah, what kind of pressure do

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Speaker 1: you put on yourself in that moment too? Because, like

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Speaker 1: you said, Ryan was like, you can just sort of

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Speaker 1: He probably would have said if you just sit on

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Speaker 1: a couch, and he'd have been fine to have you

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Speaker 1: talk about the pressure that you put on yourself to

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Speaker 1: actually like, no, I'm not going to just be there.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do something that is that is impressive

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Speaker 1: even if I hadn't had a hip or placement.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that's something that's ingrained in

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Speaker 2: us as dancers, specifically as ballet dancers, is like that,

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Speaker 2: you know, it has been so important to me, even

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Speaker 2: in creating my foundation, that to be exposed to and

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Speaker 2: to be a part of your building on skills and

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Speaker 2: developing parts of yourself that you can take with you

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Speaker 2: no matter what you do in your life. And so

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Speaker 2: I feel like ballet has really prepared, like given me

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Speaker 2: the confidence and just wherewithal to like always be prepared

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Speaker 2: as prepared as possible, you know, and and putting my

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Speaker 2: best foot forward no matter what the situation is. No

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Speaker 2: matter how big how small, and so I think it was. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: It's like always been pressure on myself. I'm never really

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Speaker 2: like thinking about like other people and necessarily their expectations

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Speaker 2: of me, but my own. And so once I got

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Speaker 2: to it, I mean I only had three days of

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Speaker 2: rehearsal before we went out into the performance, so I

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Speaker 2: was like kind of like getting myself back in it

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Speaker 2: for three days and that was kind of crazy. So

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Speaker 2: but I was like, you know, I felt good and

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Speaker 2: I felt confident before I went out there, But once

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Speaker 2: I go out there, like and specifically in spaces like that,

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Speaker 2: there are more like concert kind of commercialized dance situation,

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Speaker 2: you know, opportunities for me are like way less pressure.

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Speaker 2: So I felt like a party like I was, you know,

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Speaker 2: like even like the head of the Oscars came up

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Speaker 2: to me before and was like, oh my god, are

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Speaker 2: you nervous? There's millions and millions of people want and

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Speaker 2: I was like, and I was like, no, I'm good.

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Speaker 2: Like like, you know, the difference in like the kind

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Speaker 2: of like the situations of dancing at Lincoln Center in

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Speaker 2: the Metropolitan Opera House or like you know in Moscow

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Speaker 2: or you know, wherever it may be a la scala.

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Speaker 1: And is aren't necessary. I mean at the at the Oscars,

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Speaker 1: everybody's there really just like oh my god, They're like

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Speaker 1: show me.

424
00:21:47,304 --> 00:21:50,104
Speaker 2: So you know, I was like, this is fun. Like

425
00:21:50,224 --> 00:21:53,664
Speaker 2: I was so excited to go out there and in

426
00:21:53,704 --> 00:21:57,104
Speaker 2: those moments to and when you might be exposing people

427
00:21:57,144 --> 00:22:00,184
Speaker 2: to a craft or something that they might not know

428
00:22:00,264 --> 00:22:02,263
Speaker 2: much about or seeing it in a different way. And

429
00:22:02,344 --> 00:22:04,584
Speaker 2: to see me collaborating with different artists was like just

430
00:22:04,624 --> 00:22:05,664
Speaker 2: a cool opportunity.

431
00:22:06,224 --> 00:22:09,303
Speaker 1: That's so. I mean, that was so amazing. So I

432
00:22:09,304 --> 00:22:11,584
Speaker 1: want to go back to your said you didn't know

433
00:22:11,624 --> 00:22:13,464
Speaker 1: you were gonna have a hip or placement until after.

434
00:22:13,264 --> 00:22:14,944
Speaker 2: You after my performance?

435
00:22:14,944 --> 00:22:17,184
Speaker 1: What do you what's going through your head? When did

436
00:22:17,224 --> 00:22:18,344
Speaker 1: doctor go surprise?

437
00:22:18,784 --> 00:22:20,584
Speaker 2: Or I was really excited?

438
00:22:21,544 --> 00:22:26,384
Speaker 1: I was okay, man, I'm not prepared for any of this. Yeah,

439
00:22:26,824 --> 00:22:28,584
Speaker 1: I got a bad ankle and I'm not excited.

440
00:22:30,144 --> 00:22:32,704
Speaker 2: You know. For me, it was like it was a

441
00:22:32,744 --> 00:22:36,504
Speaker 2: solution to the problem and and I'm all about, like,

442
00:22:36,624 --> 00:22:39,584
Speaker 2: let's get this taken care of. Let's keep things moving

443
00:22:39,704 --> 00:22:41,544
Speaker 2: instead of like living in this gray space. You know,

444
00:22:41,664 --> 00:22:44,384
Speaker 2: leading up to my to my farewell performance, I hadn't

445
00:22:44,464 --> 00:22:48,904
Speaker 2: danced in over five years. Uh so I really my

446
00:22:48,984 --> 00:22:50,624
Speaker 2: body wasn't in shape. So it was a lot of

447
00:22:50,664 --> 00:22:53,144
Speaker 2: preparation just to get to the stage to do one performance.

448
00:22:54,224 --> 00:22:56,504
Speaker 2: And in that time I started to feel pain that

449
00:22:56,504 --> 00:22:59,104
Speaker 2: I never experienced my whole career. And I went in.

450
00:22:59,184 --> 00:23:01,664
Speaker 2: I had X rays and MRIs and all the things,

451
00:23:01,704 --> 00:23:04,984
Speaker 2: and they were like, you have label tear and you

452
00:23:05,024 --> 00:23:06,944
Speaker 2: have bone spurts, and so there are all these things

453
00:23:06,944 --> 00:23:09,144
Speaker 2: that you can't There's not really much you can do

454
00:23:09,264 --> 00:23:12,104
Speaker 2: for them. So I got you know, the courtisone shots,

455
00:23:12,104 --> 00:23:15,023
Speaker 2: and I did some PRP injections, but they take your

456
00:23:15,064 --> 00:23:17,504
Speaker 2: blood and you know, they spin it and they inject it.

457
00:23:17,864 --> 00:23:20,304
Speaker 2: I did all these things that did nothing. Actually felt

458
00:23:20,304 --> 00:23:23,584
Speaker 2: worse after, and so I was living in this like

459
00:23:23,704 --> 00:23:27,504
Speaker 2: in between, like do I just rest for a long time?

460
00:23:27,784 --> 00:23:29,744
Speaker 2: But I was in pain in my everyday life, just

461
00:23:29,784 --> 00:23:33,104
Speaker 2: sitting like walking. So when they said you needed a

462
00:23:33,144 --> 00:23:36,264
Speaker 2: hip replacement, it wasn't like, oh, let's just try this injection.

463
00:23:36,624 --> 00:23:38,464
Speaker 2: I was like, Thank the Lord.

464
00:23:38,704 --> 00:23:40,464
Speaker 1: Let's just get all that bad stuff out of there

465
00:23:40,744 --> 00:23:42,144
Speaker 1: and replace it with some better stuff.

466
00:23:42,144 --> 00:23:44,824
Speaker 2: Start over and give me, you know, just a way

467
00:23:44,864 --> 00:23:46,664
Speaker 2: to start fresh. And you know, I just I'm not

468
00:23:46,784 --> 00:23:51,504
Speaker 2: afraid of like injury and and that process. So it's

469
00:23:51,504 --> 00:23:52,263
Speaker 2: not new to me.

470
00:23:53,064 --> 00:23:55,864
Speaker 1: So I guess you understood that, like because if I

471
00:23:55,904 --> 00:23:59,064
Speaker 1: knowing nothing about anything, like I recently went to the

472
00:23:59,104 --> 00:24:02,424
Speaker 1: doctor because I have my left ankles bad, and he

473
00:24:02,504 --> 00:24:09,704
Speaker 1: was basically just like yep, kind of like age.

474
00:24:09,144 --> 00:24:10,744
Speaker 2: Where it's just this is what it is.

475
00:24:11,064 --> 00:24:12,824
Speaker 1: This is what it is, and you know, yeah, you

476
00:24:12,864 --> 00:24:16,024
Speaker 1: can take you can take like you know, hyperprofen and

477
00:24:16,064 --> 00:24:17,424
Speaker 1: you could. He was very nice about it.

478
00:24:17,424 --> 00:24:18,624
Speaker 2: I'd be like, no, give me a new foot.

479
00:24:19,024 --> 00:24:22,024
Speaker 1: Yes, but then I'm like, I'm probably not gonna go

480
00:24:22,064 --> 00:24:23,384
Speaker 1: as hard in the pain as you did if I

481
00:24:23,384 --> 00:24:25,023
Speaker 1: get a new foot. I'm not gonna like, you know,

482
00:24:25,184 --> 00:24:27,144
Speaker 1: I saw the videos of you, like all the things

483
00:24:27,144 --> 00:24:28,504
Speaker 1: you do, and I'd be think I could get the

484
00:24:28,504 --> 00:24:30,024
Speaker 1: new foot and be like that's fine, you know what

485
00:24:30,064 --> 00:24:35,024
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't do all the rehab necessary. And

486
00:24:35,064 --> 00:24:37,384
Speaker 1: maybe he, maybe the doctor knew that, like you're not.

487
00:24:37,744 --> 00:24:40,344
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not deserving of this new limb.

488
00:24:40,864 --> 00:24:42,543
Speaker 1: You just got just a new way. It's a new

489
00:24:42,544 --> 00:24:44,584
Speaker 1: way to people identify you, which which come out the

490
00:24:44,584 --> 00:24:46,344
Speaker 1: guy would come out with the limb, Oh, yeah, that

491
00:24:46,384 --> 00:24:50,104
Speaker 1: come out. But you've sort of show that the hip

492
00:24:50,104 --> 00:24:51,784
Speaker 1: replacement was actually going to be a way to get

493
00:24:51,824 --> 00:24:54,104
Speaker 1: back to be able to continue to dance without pain.

494
00:24:54,304 --> 00:24:57,144
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think also just living my life too, without

495
00:24:57,224 --> 00:24:57,744
Speaker 2: without pain.

496
00:24:57,784 --> 00:24:59,384
Speaker 1: But sitting without pain, Yeah.

497
00:24:59,304 --> 00:25:01,984
Speaker 2: Sitting sing without pain, walking by the pain. But but yeah,

498
00:25:01,984 --> 00:25:05,984
Speaker 2: I mean leaving American Ballet Theater. You know this or

499
00:25:06,024 --> 00:25:08,263
Speaker 2: the road retirement keeps getting used and it's not at

500
00:25:08,304 --> 00:25:12,224
Speaker 2: all retirement, you know. I it's just stepping away from

501
00:25:12,264 --> 00:25:14,224
Speaker 2: this company that I, you know, spent so much of

502
00:25:14,264 --> 00:25:16,824
Speaker 2: my life with. But I still want to continue dancing

503
00:25:16,864 --> 00:25:20,184
Speaker 2: and and really in a way that uh, you know,

504
00:25:20,304 --> 00:25:24,024
Speaker 2: feels like it's my voice and the stories I want

505
00:25:24,064 --> 00:25:27,384
Speaker 2: to tell, and and so it feels very freeing to

506
00:25:27,464 --> 00:25:31,944
Speaker 2: be in this, in this place of ownership and kind

507
00:25:31,944 --> 00:25:33,744
Speaker 2: of power over this next stage.

508
00:25:33,904 --> 00:25:35,904
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the word retirement then seems to be

509
00:25:35,984 --> 00:25:38,304
Speaker 1: the I mean, I understand retiring from that company, but

510
00:25:38,344 --> 00:25:40,744
Speaker 1: that's not that's certainly not how I took it in.

511
00:25:40,784 --> 00:25:42,784
Speaker 1: And I think maybe all most people, I think.

512
00:25:42,664 --> 00:25:44,464
Speaker 2: We thought retirement from ballet.

513
00:25:44,544 --> 00:25:47,784
Speaker 1: Yeah, retirement from the way that again the athlete thing

514
00:25:47,824 --> 00:25:50,704
Speaker 1: went after retires, right, Like there's all this talk now

515
00:25:50,824 --> 00:25:53,144
Speaker 1: like Lebron James. Maybe when is he going to retire?

516
00:25:53,384 --> 00:25:55,224
Speaker 1: No expects when you retire, she's then going to go

517
00:25:55,224 --> 00:25:59,384
Speaker 1: play basketball in China. You know, Like I'm retired from

518
00:25:59,384 --> 00:26:02,464
Speaker 1: the NBA to go play basketball in Europe. It's generally

519
00:26:02,464 --> 00:26:05,944
Speaker 1: like retirement, like I'm done on the professional level. Yes,

520
00:26:05,984 --> 00:26:08,144
Speaker 1: I will play basketball in my backyard or whatever. But

521
00:26:09,024 --> 00:26:12,064
Speaker 1: you so there's this is like I just gets good

522
00:26:12,064 --> 00:26:14,104
Speaker 1: to know this is like opens up the opportunity for

523
00:26:14,144 --> 00:26:16,304
Speaker 1: you to do things that are more your creative vision.

524
00:26:16,304 --> 00:26:18,904
Speaker 2: Is that I'm here absolutely, okay, Okay, so.

525
00:26:18,824 --> 00:26:20,744
Speaker 1: That you can. So it's not like about dancing in

526
00:26:20,744 --> 00:26:21,944
Speaker 1: somebody else's program.

527
00:26:22,584 --> 00:26:26,584
Speaker 2: It's I don't know if I would say that. It's

528
00:26:26,704 --> 00:26:32,184
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I got a whole I got a

529
00:26:32,184 --> 00:26:32,544
Speaker 2: whole plan.

530
00:26:32,544 --> 00:26:33,263
Speaker 1: I'm your manager.

531
00:26:34,424 --> 00:26:37,824
Speaker 2: Okay, let's do it the mysty team.

532
00:26:38,184 --> 00:26:38,384
Speaker 1: You know.

533
00:26:39,184 --> 00:26:42,784
Speaker 2: I look at this next phase is like, how am

534
00:26:42,864 --> 00:26:46,664
Speaker 2: I kind of like the narrator in this next chapter

535
00:26:47,104 --> 00:26:49,864
Speaker 2: of my story? Whereas I spent you know, so much

536
00:26:49,904 --> 00:26:55,064
Speaker 2: of my career being this vessel uh to tell other stories,

537
00:26:55,144 --> 00:26:57,384
Speaker 2: other people's stories, and you know, and you look at

538
00:26:57,464 --> 00:27:01,904
Speaker 2: ballet and this lineage and this history and tradition and

539
00:27:01,904 --> 00:27:05,543
Speaker 2: and it's so fascinating to be a black woman in

540
00:27:05,584 --> 00:27:10,224
Speaker 2: this body telling these white European stories that were written

541
00:27:10,584 --> 00:27:14,064
Speaker 2: hundreds of years ago. You know, though I love like,

542
00:27:14,144 --> 00:27:17,304
Speaker 2: you know, I wouldn't have done ballet for as long

543
00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:19,904
Speaker 2: as I have if I didn't love, you know, and

544
00:27:19,984 --> 00:27:21,704
Speaker 2: connect to a lot of it, but then so much

545
00:27:21,704 --> 00:27:23,944
Speaker 2: of it and you don't. And so to be in

546
00:27:23,984 --> 00:27:26,984
Speaker 2: a space where and I don't even necessarily see myself

547
00:27:27,024 --> 00:27:31,544
Speaker 2: as always being the storyteller, oh yeah, you know, even

548
00:27:32,184 --> 00:27:35,784
Speaker 2: you know, in this next phase of dance, I want

549
00:27:35,784 --> 00:27:37,224
Speaker 2: to be able to curate shows that it's not just

550
00:27:37,344 --> 00:27:40,184
Speaker 2: me dancing in and it's collaborations with other artists, so

551
00:27:40,224 --> 00:27:42,944
Speaker 2: it's not just kind of like, oh, I'm just kind

552
00:27:42,944 --> 00:27:46,144
Speaker 2: of creating like a misty company.

553
00:27:46,664 --> 00:27:50,144
Speaker 1: I understand, like curating like yeah, choreography, Yeah, yeah, that's

554
00:27:50,184 --> 00:27:53,744
Speaker 1: I mean. I think one of the best things about

555
00:27:54,704 --> 00:27:57,023
Speaker 1: in the list of good things about my life, one

556
00:27:57,064 --> 00:27:59,864
Speaker 1: of the best things that helped me was because she

557
00:27:59,984 --> 00:28:04,304
Speaker 1: was in dance and contemporary modern dance and also in

558
00:28:04,344 --> 00:28:06,344
Speaker 1: the barrier that made you get into some I feel

559
00:28:06,344 --> 00:28:09,464
Speaker 1: like the dance scene and the performance arts scene are

560
00:28:09,464 --> 00:28:13,264
Speaker 1: often aligned. I've seen some weird things.

561
00:28:13,344 --> 00:28:15,984
Speaker 2: All I'm saying it's really and they're deep. You're exposed

562
00:28:16,024 --> 00:28:17,624
Speaker 2: to it. A lot of people are not.

563
00:28:17,864 --> 00:28:20,304
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what I mean. I'm like. It made

564
00:28:20,344 --> 00:28:23,464
Speaker 1: me understand that, like, the world of performance and art

565
00:28:23,664 --> 00:28:26,464
Speaker 1: is more vast than I can imagine. And it also

566
00:28:26,504 --> 00:28:29,824
Speaker 1: made me understand just because I don't like a thing,

567
00:28:30,264 --> 00:28:37,544
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean the thing doesn't have value, like I

568
00:28:37,584 --> 00:28:39,424
Speaker 1: could be like, huh, I didn't get any of that.

569
00:28:39,744 --> 00:28:42,104
Speaker 1: I don't know what that was about. And then I

570
00:28:42,464 --> 00:28:44,464
Speaker 1: guess it wasn't for you come out because everybody else

571
00:28:44,464 --> 00:28:47,264
Speaker 1: seems to be or or nobody does. But those people

572
00:28:47,264 --> 00:28:48,024
Speaker 1: are having a good time.

573
00:28:48,584 --> 00:28:54,744
Speaker 2: The incredible thing about art, you know, it's subjective and

574
00:28:54,824 --> 00:28:57,544
Speaker 2: people are coming at it, you know, into it with

575
00:28:57,584 --> 00:29:00,744
Speaker 2: such different experiences and lenses and and that's what's so

576
00:29:00,864 --> 00:29:03,264
Speaker 2: incredible and beautiful about it.

577
00:29:03,384 --> 00:29:23,264
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna hammer this point too much longer.

578
00:29:23,304 --> 00:29:25,344
Speaker 1: But the other thing about it, and this is the

579
00:29:25,344 --> 00:29:27,624
Speaker 1: part about it that I think drove me and think

580
00:29:27,664 --> 00:29:31,224
Speaker 1: about his his sort of flippancy, is the idea that

581
00:29:31,264 --> 00:29:34,304
Speaker 1: like and you certainly understand isn't. One of the reasons

582
00:29:34,304 --> 00:29:39,624
Speaker 1: is specifically that ballet wherever it's at in American culture

583
00:29:39,864 --> 00:29:42,264
Speaker 1: is about accessibility for people to get to the art form.

584
00:29:42,344 --> 00:29:44,824
Speaker 1: For a young girl, Yeah, to get to a young

585
00:29:44,824 --> 00:29:47,704
Speaker 1: black girl, especially a young girl who any even young

586
00:29:47,744 --> 00:29:50,064
Speaker 1: white girls who live in like Appalachia or whatever, to

587
00:29:50,184 --> 00:29:53,944
Speaker 1: get to in a way that like every asshole has

588
00:29:53,984 --> 00:29:57,424
Speaker 1: an acting class, just like I mean, it's just true.

589
00:29:57,504 --> 00:30:00,064
Speaker 1: There's an accessibility thing, the same way I think about sports,

590
00:30:00,064 --> 00:30:04,184
Speaker 1: Like the reason why Venus and Serena Williams so we're

591
00:30:04,224 --> 00:30:07,224
Speaker 1: so noticeable is because their dad was like, I'm taking

592
00:30:07,224 --> 00:30:09,424
Speaker 1: you to a tennis court and We're gonna do this

593
00:30:09,464 --> 00:30:12,304
Speaker 1: in ways that like most black people is going to right.

594
00:30:12,264 --> 00:30:13,664
Speaker 2: So it's not in their communities.

595
00:30:13,784 --> 00:30:14,984
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean.

596
00:30:15,224 --> 00:30:18,984
Speaker 2: You know that's literally why I built the programs that

597
00:30:18,984 --> 00:30:23,144
Speaker 2: I built around through my foundation. You know that so often,

598
00:30:23,624 --> 00:30:25,904
Speaker 2: you know, black and brown kids are plucked out of

599
00:30:25,904 --> 00:30:29,624
Speaker 2: their communities and taken into places where they're not seeing themselves,

600
00:30:29,704 --> 00:30:31,864
Speaker 2: and there aren't teachers who look like them or understand

601
00:30:31,864 --> 00:30:33,944
Speaker 2: the journeys they've been through or where they come from,

602
00:30:34,104 --> 00:30:39,064
Speaker 2: and instead, like, why can't we bring these opportunities to

603
00:30:39,104 --> 00:30:41,064
Speaker 2: them in their communities and meet them where they are?

604
00:30:41,624 --> 00:30:45,464
Speaker 2: And you know that was my experience actually with ballet.

605
00:30:45,544 --> 00:30:46,864
Speaker 2: You know, it was at a boys and girls club

606
00:30:46,864 --> 00:30:50,704
Speaker 2: where I took my first ballet class and then went

607
00:30:50,704 --> 00:30:52,664
Speaker 2: to the local ballet studio that was right there in

608
00:30:52,704 --> 00:30:57,064
Speaker 2: my community. And I think that, you know, there's something

609
00:30:57,424 --> 00:31:01,344
Speaker 2: to that that gives kids like the confidence and in

610
00:31:01,384 --> 00:31:05,864
Speaker 2: a sense of belonging that they can be in this space.

611
00:31:05,904 --> 00:31:07,464
Speaker 2: They don't have to be taken out of their communities

612
00:31:07,464 --> 00:31:10,784
Speaker 2: to thrive. But all of that to say that, yes,

613
00:31:10,864 --> 00:31:13,824
Speaker 2: just be because something you know is extremely accessible or

614
00:31:13,824 --> 00:31:17,264
Speaker 2: popular doesn't mean that it has incredible value or or

615
00:31:17,384 --> 00:31:18,784
Speaker 2: lasting value.

616
00:31:18,944 --> 00:31:21,624
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, that doesn't. That doesn't inherently make that

617
00:31:21,704 --> 00:31:25,024
Speaker 1: make it more valuable or also we're also living in

618
00:31:25,064 --> 00:31:27,664
Speaker 1: a moment in time, and the thing that you think

619
00:31:27,744 --> 00:31:29,384
Speaker 1: is so cool right now in one.

620
00:31:29,344 --> 00:31:31,664
Speaker 2: Hundred years right may not, like you.

621
00:31:31,664 --> 00:31:34,864
Speaker 1: Know what I mean, I think that's got proof.

622
00:31:34,624 --> 00:31:38,224
Speaker 2: That this is still hundreds of years old, and like

623
00:31:38,344 --> 00:31:39,224
Speaker 2: you still.

624
00:31:38,984 --> 00:31:40,944
Speaker 1: Doing it just over one hundred years old, Like it's

625
00:31:40,944 --> 00:31:43,344
Speaker 1: not like it's you know, so yeah no, and you know, obviously,

626
00:31:43,544 --> 00:31:46,104
Speaker 1: I just I just feel like it had That's about

627
00:31:46,104 --> 00:31:47,624
Speaker 1: the Bay Area has done for me. When I moved

628
00:31:47,624 --> 00:31:49,504
Speaker 1: out there in ninety seven and I realized, oh I

629
00:31:49,544 --> 00:31:51,304
Speaker 1: moved out to the Bear right after I guess how

630
00:31:51,344 --> 00:31:54,064
Speaker 1: you started dancing in ninety six, just that that that

631
00:31:54,344 --> 00:31:57,344
Speaker 1: midnight after Yeah, so, which is when I sort of

632
00:31:57,384 --> 00:32:00,384
Speaker 1: like grew up, even though it was an adult, but

633
00:32:00,424 --> 00:32:01,944
Speaker 1: it was really much. I started to meet lots of

634
00:32:01,944 --> 00:32:05,024
Speaker 1: different people, and I really have the best thing the

635
00:32:05,064 --> 00:32:08,344
Speaker 1: Bearrier taught me. Among the things was the value of

636
00:32:08,464 --> 00:32:12,024
Speaker 1: shedding up and listen, like being in spaces where it's like,

637
00:32:12,104 --> 00:32:14,224
Speaker 1: I don't think my opinion is needed here, and if

638
00:32:14,224 --> 00:32:17,224
Speaker 1: I'm quiet, I'll learn some things like because I was

639
00:32:17,264 --> 00:32:21,104
Speaker 1: around like so many different types of people, gender, sexuality,

640
00:32:21,224 --> 00:32:24,864
Speaker 1: artistic expression, us on the world.

641
00:32:25,144 --> 00:32:27,064
Speaker 2: You know, I feel the same whenever had come to

642
00:32:27,104 --> 00:32:30,264
Speaker 2: the Bay, I'm like, yeah, I just just like take

643
00:32:30,264 --> 00:32:31,224
Speaker 2: it all in all.

644
00:32:31,664 --> 00:32:35,504
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, you're talking about like the next phase

645
00:32:35,544 --> 00:32:38,384
Speaker 1: of your career, and I know that you and Don

646
00:32:38,464 --> 00:32:42,704
Speaker 1: Porter are currently working together, which I was just like, yah, yay,

647
00:32:43,544 --> 00:32:47,824
Speaker 1: incredible doctor director. Yeah, how did that relationship come about?

648
00:32:47,824 --> 00:32:49,824
Speaker 1: And where are you at in the process? Yeah? And

649
00:32:50,104 --> 00:32:52,704
Speaker 1: uh and when can I see it? Those are my

650
00:32:52,704 --> 00:32:53,464
Speaker 1: three questions.

651
00:32:54,344 --> 00:32:57,584
Speaker 2: So I amongst you know, many things that I have

652
00:32:57,744 --> 00:33:00,464
Speaker 2: going on in my career, you know, they're all connected

653
00:33:00,504 --> 00:33:04,024
Speaker 2: and tied to the arts, and and just kind of

654
00:33:04,064 --> 00:33:06,624
Speaker 2: through line of dance in ballet and the importance of

655
00:33:06,664 --> 00:33:10,864
Speaker 2: it and bringing it to different spaces and different mediums

656
00:33:10,904 --> 00:33:13,944
Speaker 2: and how it can be delivered in different ways when

657
00:33:13,984 --> 00:33:17,064
Speaker 2: you have different platforms. And so I started a production

658
00:33:17,184 --> 00:33:20,264
Speaker 2: company called Life in Motion Productions some years ago now

659
00:33:20,424 --> 00:33:23,624
Speaker 2: and we've gotten some good momentum. So there's some really

660
00:33:24,064 --> 00:33:26,504
Speaker 2: cool projects that are that are on the horizon that

661
00:33:26,544 --> 00:33:30,704
Speaker 2: are in development, and this documentary being one of them.

662
00:33:30,904 --> 00:33:35,104
Speaker 2: So my partner Leila and I we've been kind of

663
00:33:35,184 --> 00:33:39,824
Speaker 2: capturing ourselves, like filming different things, like throughout my journey

664
00:33:39,864 --> 00:33:42,944
Speaker 2: over the last like through the pandemic we did, and

665
00:33:43,704 --> 00:33:46,864
Speaker 2: kind of like not knowing what this would be, where

666
00:33:46,864 --> 00:33:49,104
Speaker 2: it was going, yeah, but just kind of capturing things.

667
00:33:49,504 --> 00:33:53,144
Speaker 2: And Don came on board. God when did she come

668
00:33:53,184 --> 00:33:59,024
Speaker 2: on board? Maybe halfway through last year leading up to

669
00:33:59,344 --> 00:34:04,464
Speaker 2: my farewell and really kind of you know, I mean

670
00:34:04,504 --> 00:34:07,064
Speaker 2: she was really excited on board. Actually, Leila and I

671
00:34:07,064 --> 00:34:10,343
Speaker 2: had spoken to her years ago and we didn't really

672
00:34:10,384 --> 00:34:14,984
Speaker 2: know what we just like having the conversations meeting different creatives, directors, producers,

673
00:34:15,024 --> 00:34:16,864
Speaker 2: and and she was like, I would love to work

674
00:34:16,864 --> 00:34:19,543
Speaker 2: together at some point, so we kind of came back

675
00:34:19,584 --> 00:34:23,383
Speaker 2: to revisited. We've done a lot of filming. She did

676
00:34:23,384 --> 00:34:27,744
Speaker 2: an incredible job of capturing like so much amazing footage

677
00:34:27,783 --> 00:34:30,264
Speaker 2: of my farewell performance, and so many people that didn't

678
00:34:30,464 --> 00:34:32,823
Speaker 2: get an opportunity to be there live and see it

679
00:34:33,183 --> 00:34:34,224
Speaker 2: will get to see.

680
00:34:34,584 --> 00:34:36,304
Speaker 1: That's I think that's the thing I kept visiting.

681
00:34:36,743 --> 00:34:39,623
Speaker 2: That's exciting, which is very exciting. But we're still we're

682
00:34:39,663 --> 00:34:42,663
Speaker 2: still filming. I'm hoping that we'll be done by the

683
00:34:42,783 --> 00:34:45,504
Speaker 2: end of this year and then really thinking about next

684
00:34:45,623 --> 00:34:48,343
Speaker 2: year where we'll see it in different festivals and what

685
00:34:48,424 --> 00:34:49,424
Speaker 2: distribution will look like.

686
00:34:49,623 --> 00:34:51,984
Speaker 1: Nice. I mean, it shouldn't go with that saying that,

687
00:34:52,064 --> 00:34:54,303
Speaker 1: like it's it says a lot about who you are

688
00:34:54,344 --> 00:34:56,183
Speaker 1: and your impact on the world that this will be

689
00:34:56,183 --> 00:35:01,344
Speaker 1: your second documentary that I mean, there are some people

690
00:35:01,384 --> 00:35:03,743
Speaker 1: who have to write multiple memoirs in their life, you know,

691
00:35:03,904 --> 00:35:07,263
Speaker 1: like Maya Angela wrote multiple memoirs, and I think that

692
00:35:07,504 --> 00:35:10,143
Speaker 1: you're at a multi You're a multiple memoir person. You're

693
00:35:10,183 --> 00:35:12,984
Speaker 1: like the the different phases of things you're doing in them.

694
00:35:13,183 --> 00:35:18,783
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really cool to have the opportunity to kind

695
00:35:18,783 --> 00:35:22,303
Speaker 2: of step into all of these different spaces, And you know,

696
00:35:22,344 --> 00:35:25,743
Speaker 2: I never really I don't know where this comes from,

697
00:35:25,824 --> 00:35:28,703
Speaker 2: where it came from, but I never looked at American

698
00:35:28,743 --> 00:35:32,584
Speaker 2: Ballet Theater as like the end goal. Even as a

699
00:35:32,623 --> 00:35:34,864
Speaker 2: young girl though that I mean, that was the company.

700
00:35:34,904 --> 00:35:36,983
Speaker 2: I was like, this is it, Like that's the place

701
00:35:37,024 --> 00:35:39,024
Speaker 2: I have to be, But I never saw it as

702
00:35:39,984 --> 00:35:42,623
Speaker 2: like I felt like, oh, this, this will be such

703
00:35:43,024 --> 00:35:46,104
Speaker 2: a beautiful journey to be on. That'll take me somewhere else.

704
00:35:46,464 --> 00:35:48,383
Speaker 2: And maybe that was like the mentors I've had in

705
00:35:48,424 --> 00:35:50,863
Speaker 2: my life. Maybe it was my first ballet teacher that

706
00:35:52,623 --> 00:35:54,663
Speaker 2: saw so much potential in me in a way that

707
00:35:54,743 --> 00:35:57,183
Speaker 2: I never experienced, like as a child, like I'm one

708
00:35:57,183 --> 00:35:59,823
Speaker 2: of six children, I'm the fourth. I come from a

709
00:35:59,864 --> 00:36:03,143
Speaker 2: single parent home, and we were like we were houseless

710
00:36:03,143 --> 00:36:05,263
Speaker 2: for most of my upbringing and it was just like

711
00:36:05,303 --> 00:36:09,663
Speaker 2: a lot of struggle and survival and I never experienced

712
00:36:09,703 --> 00:36:13,824
Speaker 2: someone like wanting to pour into me or see possibilities.

713
00:36:13,864 --> 00:36:16,903
Speaker 2: And so when that first ballet teacher was like I've

714
00:36:16,904 --> 00:36:19,424
Speaker 2: never seen a talent like yours, like wanting to invest

715
00:36:19,464 --> 00:36:21,863
Speaker 2: in me, and it felt bigger than just me as

716
00:36:21,864 --> 00:36:23,584
Speaker 2: a dancer. It felt like wanting to invest in me

717
00:36:23,623 --> 00:36:26,424
Speaker 2: as a human being, and I think that sparked something

718
00:36:26,424 --> 00:36:29,064
Speaker 2: in me where I think I always saw ballet as

719
00:36:29,064 --> 00:36:33,383
Speaker 2: this incredible tool that can take me places rather than

720
00:36:33,464 --> 00:36:37,504
Speaker 2: it being the destination. And I think that's really served

721
00:36:37,544 --> 00:36:40,303
Speaker 2: me throughout my career, to be able to expand and

722
00:36:40,303 --> 00:36:43,944
Speaker 2: step into different spaces while still taking ballet with me

723
00:36:44,703 --> 00:36:46,984
Speaker 2: as like, I don't know, I don't know if that makes.

724
00:36:46,783 --> 00:36:49,983
Speaker 1: Sense pas No, no, no, it makes sense. Not that it's

725
00:36:50,024 --> 00:36:52,423
Speaker 1: a fast track to a different life from the one

726
00:36:52,464 --> 00:36:54,183
Speaker 1: you from me, like you said, being one of six

727
00:36:54,183 --> 00:36:57,184
Speaker 1: in houses with a single parent. Though, there's this aspect

728
00:36:57,223 --> 00:36:59,703
Speaker 1: of like how do I improve my circumstances and the

729
00:36:59,743 --> 00:37:03,424
Speaker 1: circumstances of those around me, and ballet becomes like, you know,

730
00:37:03,584 --> 00:37:05,383
Speaker 1: not in a cynical way, Oh my god, I'm good

731
00:37:05,384 --> 00:37:06,663
Speaker 1: at this. I didn't know I was good at this.

732
00:37:06,984 --> 00:37:10,344
Speaker 1: I didn't know. Now this opens up possibility.

733
00:37:09,824 --> 00:37:13,783
Speaker 2: Possibility, not the end goal. Yeah, and that's really been

734
00:37:13,864 --> 00:37:16,024
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's the you know, I wrote my

735
00:37:16,064 --> 00:37:17,743
Speaker 2: first book when I was twenty nine years old. That's

736
00:37:17,743 --> 00:37:20,263
Speaker 2: when my first memoir came out, and I think I'm

737
00:37:20,263 --> 00:37:23,543
Speaker 2: working on my eleventh at the moment. I know it's

738
00:37:23,584 --> 00:37:27,064
Speaker 2: been it's you know. But it's just I feel like

739
00:37:27,143 --> 00:37:29,383
Speaker 2: when I step into something like I want to do

740
00:37:29,623 --> 00:37:31,824
Speaker 2: like we're talking about, I want to do my best

741
00:37:31,904 --> 00:37:33,904
Speaker 2: and I want to like, you know, keep it moving

742
00:37:34,024 --> 00:37:36,663
Speaker 2: and as long as people are interested, like continue creating

743
00:37:36,663 --> 00:37:38,903
Speaker 2: in those spaces. And so it's exciting to step into

744
00:37:39,703 --> 00:37:44,223
Speaker 2: the producer space and film and television and media and

745
00:37:44,263 --> 00:37:47,743
Speaker 2: that area because there's so much we can say as

746
00:37:47,864 --> 00:37:50,223
Speaker 2: dancers and kind of bringing movement into that space and

747
00:37:50,743 --> 00:37:53,183
Speaker 2: movement as a storytelling tool in a way that we

748
00:37:53,344 --> 00:37:56,703
Speaker 2: used to do in old Hollywood and that I would

749
00:37:56,743 --> 00:37:59,703
Speaker 2: love to see come back in a way that feels

750
00:37:59,743 --> 00:38:01,863
Speaker 2: relevant and makes sense for like where we are.

751
00:38:02,663 --> 00:38:06,144
Speaker 1: So there's the physical component of what you do. There's

752
00:38:06,183 --> 00:38:09,064
Speaker 1: the art, not that the physical art or separate, but

753
00:38:09,104 --> 00:38:11,544
Speaker 1: that it's like it's not just about how many piroetes

754
00:38:11,584 --> 00:38:13,223
Speaker 1: you can do, It's about like how can you make

755
00:38:13,263 --> 00:38:15,423
Speaker 1: this all beautiful and connect this? So there's the there's

756
00:38:15,464 --> 00:38:18,104
Speaker 1: the art side of what you do. But then because

757
00:38:18,143 --> 00:38:20,744
Speaker 1: you are in this position of like being the first

758
00:38:20,864 --> 00:38:25,144
Speaker 1: black woman everywhere everywhere you went in ballet, you're the first,

759
00:38:25,223 --> 00:38:27,183
Speaker 1: I feel like my mom I always joke about, was

760
00:38:27,183 --> 00:38:29,663
Speaker 1: like she always was in as she's eighty nine. But

761
00:38:29,703 --> 00:38:31,944
Speaker 1: she was always the first black woman to turn left

762
00:38:31,984 --> 00:38:34,024
Speaker 1: on this street in the history of Indianapolis, you know

763
00:38:34,104 --> 00:38:36,824
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like everywhere she went, the first black

764
00:38:36,864 --> 00:38:40,383
Speaker 1: woman to walk in this door to see exactly, like

765
00:38:40,464 --> 00:38:42,584
Speaker 1: all the she was just in that air because she

766
00:38:42,743 --> 00:38:46,104
Speaker 1: was like making new ways and didn't believe in being

767
00:38:46,143 --> 00:38:48,943
Speaker 1: held back. She was the first. You know, we've never

768
00:38:48,984 --> 00:38:51,944
Speaker 1: had a black woman say excuse me at five or

769
00:38:52,024 --> 00:38:56,183
Speaker 1: five pm on the street corner. So you're in a

770
00:38:56,223 --> 00:39:00,744
Speaker 1: position like that which carries its own weight, does that weight?

771
00:39:00,864 --> 00:39:03,463
Speaker 1: And I'm not that I'm in the same position, but there,

772
00:39:03,504 --> 00:39:05,704
Speaker 1: But I talked about like when you're a black person

773
00:39:05,703 --> 00:39:09,663
Speaker 1: who's notable, you sort of become, you know, a little

774
00:39:09,663 --> 00:39:12,623
Speaker 1: bit of spokesperson for the race. Absolutely, and and you

775
00:39:12,824 --> 00:39:14,584
Speaker 1: and I sort of always have to be clear about

776
00:39:14,783 --> 00:39:16,503
Speaker 1: when I'm when I think I'm seeking for the race

777
00:39:16,623 --> 00:39:18,423
Speaker 1: versus this is amouth thought, you know what I mean,

778
00:39:18,464 --> 00:39:20,263
Speaker 1: Because I don't want I don't want, I don't I

779
00:39:20,303 --> 00:39:21,504
Speaker 1: want to be able to have my own thoughts. And

780
00:39:21,504 --> 00:39:22,903
Speaker 1: I also don't want black people think that I think

781
00:39:22,904 --> 00:39:24,064
Speaker 1: everything comes out of my mouth.

782
00:39:23,944 --> 00:39:27,344
Speaker 2: Is about all of us, right, absolutely.

783
00:39:26,824 --> 00:39:29,383
Speaker 1: So I'm so proud that young black people can like

784
00:39:29,424 --> 00:39:32,143
Speaker 1: anime openly. I feel very like I feel like I

785
00:39:32,183 --> 00:39:36,424
Speaker 1: thought so that could happen, just because it's like liking

786
00:39:36,464 --> 00:39:37,823
Speaker 1: things like that when I was a kid was not a.

787
00:39:37,743 --> 00:39:41,183
Speaker 2: Thing to talk about it totally. So yeah, it's it's

788
00:39:41,223 --> 00:39:45,824
Speaker 2: an interesting it's an interesting like place to to hold,

789
00:39:45,944 --> 00:39:47,823
Speaker 2: like a space to hold in place to be in.

790
00:39:49,303 --> 00:39:49,543
Speaker 1: That.

791
00:39:50,464 --> 00:39:53,663
Speaker 2: I feel like I've had such incredible support, like from

792
00:39:53,703 --> 00:39:57,143
Speaker 2: the black community and like the role models and the

793
00:39:57,223 --> 00:39:58,623
Speaker 2: mentors I've had in my life that.

794
00:40:00,104 --> 00:40:00,743
Speaker 1: I always just.

795
00:40:00,703 --> 00:40:02,823
Speaker 2: Felt like it was like we're all here with you,

796
00:40:02,984 --> 00:40:05,743
Speaker 2: so it never felt like we're expecting these things like

797
00:40:05,824 --> 00:40:09,664
Speaker 2: pressure in that way. I just felt always have felt

798
00:40:09,703 --> 00:40:13,904
Speaker 2: proud to to like push and fight, and it wasn't

799
00:40:13,984 --> 00:40:17,663
Speaker 2: like if I don't know, there were some moments that

800
00:40:17,783 --> 00:40:21,064
Speaker 2: I put pressure on myself, for sure, but it was

801
00:40:21,104 --> 00:40:23,263
Speaker 2: more I think thinking not about like how the black

802
00:40:23,263 --> 00:40:26,104
Speaker 2: community would feel like they wouldn't look at me as

803
00:40:26,143 --> 00:40:28,144
Speaker 2: a failure, like if I weren't promoted a principal dancer.

804
00:40:28,143 --> 00:40:30,423
Speaker 2: I think it was more about like, well, what will

805
00:40:30,464 --> 00:40:33,263
Speaker 2: cut what the realities of what will happen next if

806
00:40:33,344 --> 00:40:36,423
Speaker 2: I don't reach this point you know, I like whether

807
00:40:36,464 --> 00:40:38,663
Speaker 2: it was the first time I did Swan Lake and

808
00:40:38,743 --> 00:40:40,544
Speaker 2: if I don't, you know, I was the first black

809
00:40:40,584 --> 00:40:42,663
Speaker 2: woman to perform the lead in that role at American

810
00:40:42,703 --> 00:40:46,143
Speaker 2: Ballet Theater in there, I don't know, like eighty year history,

811
00:40:46,783 --> 00:40:50,823
Speaker 2: and and like, oh, if I don't do this exactly

812
00:40:50,864 --> 00:40:53,143
Speaker 2: how everyone's expecting me to do it, meaning the ballet

813
00:40:53,143 --> 00:40:56,104
Speaker 2: critics like will a black woman ever be given this opportunity?

814
00:40:56,544 --> 00:40:56,623
Speaker 1: Are?

815
00:40:57,464 --> 00:41:01,263
Speaker 2: Those are the types of things that definitely I've experienced

816
00:41:01,303 --> 00:41:09,064
Speaker 2: for sure, because yeah, you represent all of us. If

817
00:41:09,104 --> 00:41:10,944
Speaker 2: you can't do this the way we want you to,

818
00:41:11,303 --> 00:41:13,544
Speaker 2: then no one else can either, even if you're.

819
00:41:13,424 --> 00:41:16,064
Speaker 1: Just making a better choice for you, but also may

820
00:41:16,104 --> 00:41:18,464
Speaker 1: be more interesting for the thing exactly, it's not the

821
00:41:18,464 --> 00:41:20,864
Speaker 1: way that it has been done before totally.

822
00:41:21,384 --> 00:41:24,783
Speaker 2: So there's there's that. But again, I've had like just

823
00:41:24,904 --> 00:41:28,663
Speaker 2: incredible support where it's like stop me out of it, like, girl,

824
00:41:28,824 --> 00:41:30,584
Speaker 2: get back to it. You got work to do, Like

825
00:41:30,663 --> 00:41:33,624
Speaker 2: Debbie Allen. You know, it's like whether it's Debbie Allen

826
00:41:33,743 --> 00:41:37,743
Speaker 2: or it's Prince or it's you know, Susan fails Hill,

827
00:41:37,824 --> 00:41:41,863
Speaker 2: like Valcarlate, like so many incredible black people in my

828
00:41:41,944 --> 00:41:47,064
Speaker 2: life that have have just been like, you know, yes,

829
00:41:47,263 --> 00:41:50,104
Speaker 2: like we're all so proud of you, but this is

830
00:41:50,183 --> 00:41:52,823
Speaker 2: you out there doing this, you know, I.

831
00:41:52,743 --> 00:41:54,504
Speaker 1: Mean you just you just snuck prints in there, like

832
00:41:54,623 --> 00:41:56,783
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's quite I mean not that you're

833
00:41:56,864 --> 00:42:00,544
Speaker 1: name dropping because you knew it, Like it's very rare

834
00:42:00,584 --> 00:42:04,904
Speaker 1: person you know, like Prince h who like who you

835
00:42:05,024 --> 00:42:05,504
Speaker 1: worked with?

836
00:42:05,783 --> 00:42:08,463
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, many years for.

837
00:42:08,384 --> 00:42:11,464
Speaker 1: Many years and who was another time I feel like

838
00:42:11,544 --> 00:42:13,464
Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler reaching out of the mist and saying, I

839
00:42:13,504 --> 00:42:15,504
Speaker 1: need you to do this. Prince also did that for you.

840
00:42:15,703 --> 00:42:18,743
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he played such an important role in my

841
00:42:18,824 --> 00:42:22,783
Speaker 2: life and a very critical time in my career. I

842
00:42:22,824 --> 00:42:25,783
Speaker 2: think I was twenty six twenty seven when Prince and

843
00:42:25,783 --> 00:42:28,424
Speaker 2: I first started, when we connected and first started working together.

844
00:42:28,984 --> 00:42:34,263
Speaker 2: And to have a black artist and him specifically who

845
00:42:34,303 --> 00:42:40,024
Speaker 2: was just so so I don't like, he spoke to

846
00:42:40,183 --> 00:42:43,504
Speaker 2: exactly what I needed in that time, which was like

847
00:42:44,024 --> 00:42:46,623
Speaker 2: you don't have to fit into this mold, like you

848
00:42:46,703 --> 00:42:49,544
Speaker 2: can be exactly who you want to be and the

849
00:42:49,663 --> 00:42:53,263
Speaker 2: artist you want to be and coming from like the

850
00:42:53,303 --> 00:42:58,623
Speaker 2: ballet world, which is like you know, uniformity, and it

851
00:42:58,703 --> 00:43:00,423
Speaker 2: was like exactly what I needed to hear because at

852
00:43:00,424 --> 00:43:02,344
Speaker 2: the time, I was the only black woman at ABT,

853
00:43:02,663 --> 00:43:04,943
Speaker 2: you know, for ten years of my career. But during

854
00:43:04,984 --> 00:43:09,503
Speaker 2: that time that I was working with him, and him

855
00:43:09,544 --> 00:43:12,623
Speaker 2: just like changing the my perspective on things, you know,

856
00:43:12,703 --> 00:43:15,783
Speaker 2: instead of feeling like so isolated alone, he was just like,

857
00:43:15,824 --> 00:43:18,423
Speaker 2: you're so special to be the only out there, and

858
00:43:18,464 --> 00:43:20,943
Speaker 2: like everyone's gonna look at you. Is that what you want?

859
00:43:21,344 --> 00:43:21,623
Speaker 1: You know?

860
00:43:22,024 --> 00:43:24,143
Speaker 2: And so it's just it was, you know, that was

861
00:43:24,183 --> 00:43:27,143
Speaker 2: just like a kind of bigger picture thing that he

862
00:43:27,223 --> 00:43:28,823
Speaker 2: But there were just so many little things in terms

863
00:43:28,864 --> 00:43:31,743
Speaker 2: of like the artistry and and not being afraid to

864
00:43:31,864 --> 00:43:37,663
Speaker 2: like be different, and that he represented so well, and

865
00:43:37,703 --> 00:43:40,783
Speaker 2: then just seeing a genius perform like right in front

866
00:43:40,783 --> 00:43:46,183
Speaker 2: of him working with them was an unbelievable experience. And

867
00:43:46,223 --> 00:43:48,984
Speaker 2: I feel like I had massive growth as an artist

868
00:43:48,984 --> 00:43:50,464
Speaker 2: in the years that we worked together.

869
00:43:50,824 --> 00:43:53,144
Speaker 1: And plus that's the song that I saw you to dance,

870
00:43:53,223 --> 00:43:55,104
Speaker 1: The Beautiful Ones is like that is one of those

871
00:43:55,223 --> 00:43:55,464
Speaker 1: like I.

872
00:43:57,384 --> 00:43:59,903
Speaker 2: Know when he chose that song, I was like, thank God,

873
00:43:59,944 --> 00:44:03,623
Speaker 2: and he shows that one. I mean, he's cause I've

874
00:44:03,703 --> 00:44:06,664
Speaker 2: danced to so many of his of his songs on tour.

875
00:44:06,864 --> 00:44:09,384
Speaker 2: You know, he would literally just he would have like

876
00:44:09,424 --> 00:44:11,743
Speaker 2: a piece of paper and he would just jot down,

877
00:44:11,783 --> 00:44:14,263
Speaker 2: like all the songs he wanted to have, you know,

878
00:44:14,504 --> 00:44:17,023
Speaker 2: perform that night. And he'd be like, uh, you're gonna

879
00:44:17,064 --> 00:44:20,104
Speaker 2: dance to all of these And I'm like, what do

880
00:44:20,143 --> 00:44:23,263
Speaker 2: you mean, Like, as a ballet dancer, like, we have

881
00:44:23,464 --> 00:44:26,743
Speaker 2: choreography that is set and we rehearsed for a very

882
00:44:26,783 --> 00:44:29,064
Speaker 2: long time. So it was the first time I went

883
00:44:29,104 --> 00:44:31,064
Speaker 2: out and just improvised.

884
00:44:31,344 --> 00:44:33,384
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's wow.

885
00:44:33,743 --> 00:44:34,984
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was pretty crazy.

886
00:44:35,104 --> 00:44:37,903
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think we all understand that. But yeah,

887
00:44:37,904 --> 00:44:41,384
Speaker 1: I don't think that ballet is a choreographed art form generally,

888
00:44:41,904 --> 00:44:43,584
Speaker 1: and there's but he was just like.

889
00:44:43,663 --> 00:44:45,383
Speaker 2: He was like, just come out here and just make

890
00:44:45,504 --> 00:44:49,183
Speaker 2: something up. I was like what. And so like that

891
00:44:49,263 --> 00:44:52,183
Speaker 2: first the first tour, we were in like some small

892
00:44:52,263 --> 00:44:56,024
Speaker 2: places in France, like traveling around and and like the

893
00:44:56,064 --> 00:44:59,064
Speaker 2: first performance I remember it was like this outdoor amphitheater.

894
00:44:59,104 --> 00:45:01,343
Speaker 2: I wish I could remember exactly where it was, and

895
00:45:01,424 --> 00:45:05,264
Speaker 2: it was like sold that I mean full, it was full.

896
00:45:04,663 --> 00:45:05,464
Speaker 1: And I was just.

897
00:45:07,424 --> 00:45:09,424
Speaker 2: I mean it was like, yeah, a lot of people.

898
00:45:09,824 --> 00:45:11,863
Speaker 2: And I went out there and I was just like

899
00:45:12,064 --> 00:45:14,704
Speaker 2: doing my thing, like and I don't know the audience

900
00:45:14,703 --> 00:45:17,463
Speaker 2: probably wasn't really that engaged. It was like prints coming out,

901
00:45:17,504 --> 00:45:19,504
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, and I'm like moving around

902
00:45:19,584 --> 00:45:22,183
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, I he was like,

903
00:45:22,223 --> 00:45:23,783
Speaker 2: you know, when I come out, then we can turn

904
00:45:23,824 --> 00:45:26,503
Speaker 2: transition and then I'll go into my song and I'm

905
00:45:26,544 --> 00:45:28,464
Speaker 2: doing my thing and I'm like working so hard and.

906
00:45:28,464 --> 00:45:29,143
Speaker 1: You're making it up.

907
00:45:29,424 --> 00:45:30,984
Speaker 2: I've been making it up and I'm like, you know.

908
00:45:30,944 --> 00:45:39,304
Speaker 1: And doing that misty couple thing, you know, the soft shoe,

909
00:45:39,464 --> 00:45:42,424
Speaker 1: the shuffle I was liked.

910
00:45:43,703 --> 00:45:45,983
Speaker 2: And then I was like, let me do a grand

911
00:45:46,024 --> 00:45:48,064
Speaker 2: bop mo. So I kicked my leg up and the

912
00:45:48,143 --> 00:45:51,943
Speaker 2: whole audience went and I was like, that was the move.

913
00:45:52,024 --> 00:45:56,584
Speaker 2: And I turned around. The princes had come on and

914
00:45:56,623 --> 00:45:58,303
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm gonna walk away now.

915
00:45:59,544 --> 00:46:02,104
Speaker 1: I love your impression of yourself and then I and

916
00:46:02,143 --> 00:46:06,943
Speaker 1: then I shuffled out the door, did the grand did

917
00:46:06,984 --> 00:46:27,343
Speaker 1: the moon walk out the door. The fact that he

918
00:46:27,464 --> 00:46:30,623
Speaker 1: was just like, go do your thing, yeah, and like

919
00:46:30,703 --> 00:46:33,264
Speaker 1: You're like, but we haven't had a year rehearsal.

920
00:46:33,464 --> 00:46:37,183
Speaker 2: I know that trust. I mean, it gave me this

921
00:46:37,303 --> 00:46:40,504
Speaker 2: sense of confidence that like I can do this and

922
00:46:40,584 --> 00:46:43,223
Speaker 2: there is more in there, and you know, I really

923
00:46:43,303 --> 00:46:45,823
Speaker 2: wanted to work with him. I wanted to work with him,

924
00:46:45,824 --> 00:46:48,184
Speaker 2: but it was like to be able to bring ballet

925
00:46:48,263 --> 00:46:51,584
Speaker 2: to these stages and it was really amazing and something

926
00:46:51,623 --> 00:46:56,223
Speaker 2: that is so powerful that happens, you know, I mean

927
00:46:56,303 --> 00:46:58,064
Speaker 2: up until like my you know, my last performance, but

928
00:46:58,143 --> 00:47:00,024
Speaker 2: like going to the stage store and meeting fans and

929
00:47:00,024 --> 00:47:02,464
Speaker 2: them saying I had no interest in ballet until I

930
00:47:02,464 --> 00:47:04,303
Speaker 2: saw you perform with Prince, and now I come and

931
00:47:04,344 --> 00:47:06,623
Speaker 2: see American Maley theater, I go and whatever it is,

932
00:47:06,623 --> 00:47:08,104
Speaker 2: and it was like sparking that interest.

933
00:47:08,703 --> 00:47:11,944
Speaker 1: So you're saying that you made ballet more popular. I'm sorry,

934
00:47:12,104 --> 00:47:15,064
Speaker 1: I'll stop. I'll stop, i'll stop. Ballet's getting more popular,

935
00:47:15,143 --> 00:47:18,984
Speaker 1: so i'll stop, I'll stop, I'll stop. Uh. Was there

936
00:47:19,024 --> 00:47:20,823
Speaker 1: any sort of like because I don't know understand I

937
00:47:21,143 --> 00:47:23,384
Speaker 1: know that ballet there's like a season like when like

938
00:47:23,743 --> 00:47:26,104
Speaker 1: and there's like this is the season? Did you have

939
00:47:26,183 --> 00:47:29,743
Speaker 1: to did it conflict Prince asking you was there? I

940
00:47:29,743 --> 00:47:32,863
Speaker 1: would imagine there about be some ballet people who were like, wait,

941
00:47:32,864 --> 00:47:33,743
Speaker 1: what are you about to go do?

942
00:47:34,024 --> 00:47:36,984
Speaker 2: No, there was some of that, but not because I

943
00:47:37,143 --> 00:47:40,223
Speaker 2: was so my career is first and foremost. It did

944
00:47:40,263 --> 00:47:43,904
Speaker 2: not matter what opportunity and who came calling. I never

945
00:47:44,024 --> 00:47:48,024
Speaker 2: missed shows, rehearsals, nothing to work with Prince, and that

946
00:47:48,183 --> 00:47:51,344
Speaker 2: was important to me, like in all my partnerships and collaborations,

947
00:47:51,424 --> 00:47:53,663
Speaker 2: is that they understand what it takes to do what

948
00:47:53,743 --> 00:47:55,623
Speaker 2: I do and I'm not going to just step away

949
00:47:55,663 --> 00:47:58,984
Speaker 2: because i have this opportunity, that's you know, And Prince

950
00:47:59,143 --> 00:48:02,183
Speaker 2: was amazing with that, Like he worked around like my

951
00:48:02,303 --> 00:48:04,343
Speaker 2: schedule when it came to the thing.

952
00:48:04,263 --> 00:48:07,224
Speaker 1: You hear about Prince, he worked around my schedule.

953
00:48:07,263 --> 00:48:09,303
Speaker 2: It was wild, Like you know, he would have he

954
00:48:09,344 --> 00:48:12,183
Speaker 2: would have an you know, different structure of the show

955
00:48:12,223 --> 00:48:14,703
Speaker 2: if I wasn't going to be there. But I performed

956
00:48:14,743 --> 00:48:18,143
Speaker 2: with him quite a bit at Madison Square Garden and

957
00:48:18,464 --> 00:48:20,944
Speaker 2: I was in Nutcracker season at the same time. We

958
00:48:20,944 --> 00:48:23,584
Speaker 2: were performing in Brooklyn at BAM America Malley Theater was

959
00:48:23,584 --> 00:48:25,504
Speaker 2: so it was literally at the same time. And so

960
00:48:25,944 --> 00:48:27,823
Speaker 2: any night I wasn't on, I would go over to

961
00:48:27,904 --> 00:48:31,584
Speaker 2: Madison Square Garden, I would perform with him. But he,

962
00:48:31,904 --> 00:48:33,904
Speaker 2: you know, it was kind of like this is what

963
00:48:34,064 --> 00:48:34,984
Speaker 2: it has to be.

964
00:48:35,303 --> 00:48:38,304
Speaker 1: That says a lot about his respect for you. Because

965
00:48:38,303 --> 00:48:40,584
Speaker 1: I just want to highlight again Prince not known for

966
00:48:40,703 --> 00:48:43,703
Speaker 1: like just i'll take I'll wait for you. That's not

967
00:48:43,743 --> 00:48:47,263
Speaker 1: a famous Prince quote. Just whenever you're ready, I'll be here.

968
00:48:47,783 --> 00:48:50,023
Speaker 1: That's not what he's known, what he was known for,

969
00:48:50,303 --> 00:48:52,183
Speaker 1: But that time, what you believed in wanting to work

970
00:48:52,223 --> 00:48:52,464
Speaker 1: with you.

971
00:48:52,544 --> 00:48:55,383
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean his investment in young artists. I think

972
00:48:55,504 --> 00:48:58,064
Speaker 2: maybe a lot of people didn't get an opportunity to

973
00:48:58,143 --> 00:49:01,303
Speaker 2: really know and see. And I watched it firsthand, you know,

974
00:49:01,703 --> 00:49:05,343
Speaker 2: him like always like had his you know, hand on

975
00:49:05,384 --> 00:49:08,383
Speaker 2: the pulse of like what's new and what's happening and

976
00:49:08,504 --> 00:49:12,864
Speaker 2: just wanting to uplift you know, artists and young artists.

977
00:49:12,904 --> 00:49:14,903
Speaker 2: And so he was really committed to that.

978
00:49:15,544 --> 00:49:19,824
Speaker 1: Wow, as we talk about the idea of being committed

979
00:49:19,824 --> 00:49:27,424
Speaker 1: to things, your commitment to ballet shoe emojis.

980
00:49:26,984 --> 00:49:29,143
Speaker 2: Dude, ship still doesn't happen.

981
00:49:30,464 --> 00:49:34,504
Speaker 1: But I just was like, because it is, it's totally meaningful.

982
00:49:34,504 --> 00:49:36,663
Speaker 1: I want to care about that. It is not it is.

983
00:49:36,864 --> 00:49:39,423
Speaker 1: It's not nothing to say that, Like we should all

984
00:49:39,424 --> 00:49:42,823
Speaker 1: be able to see ourselves, especially in the technology we're

985
00:49:42,864 --> 00:49:45,223
Speaker 1: using every day. Yes, And I mean I remember the

986
00:49:45,223 --> 00:49:47,464
Speaker 1: first time when I realized when they finally made it,

987
00:49:47,504 --> 00:49:50,383
Speaker 1: like the hand emojis can be different colors. And I

988
00:49:50,424 --> 00:49:52,223
Speaker 1: remember having this thought because they were all like sort

989
00:49:52,223 --> 00:49:56,344
Speaker 1: of a you know, Rangy yelled like a Simpson's hand, yeah,

990
00:49:56,344 --> 00:49:59,303
Speaker 1: which was which is white? The Simpsons are white, it's

991
00:49:59,303 --> 00:50:01,863
Speaker 1: not you know. Uh so that sort of stood in

992
00:50:01,904 --> 00:50:04,223
Speaker 1: for white people. And then when they said it was

993
00:50:04,263 --> 00:50:06,104
Speaker 1: different and there was like like four or five, like

994
00:50:06,223 --> 00:50:08,504
Speaker 1: maybe five different shades, and I had this thought of like,

995
00:50:08,984 --> 00:50:11,584
Speaker 1: am I the darkest shade? Second time?

996
00:50:11,663 --> 00:50:12,744
Speaker 2: How do you view yourself?

997
00:50:12,864 --> 00:50:14,984
Speaker 1: It's funny, and how am I telling other people that

998
00:50:14,984 --> 00:50:15,664
Speaker 1: I view myself?

999
00:50:15,904 --> 00:50:17,863
Speaker 2: I know how much I have friends where I'm like,

1000
00:50:18,024 --> 00:50:18,904
Speaker 2: that's not your color.

1001
00:50:19,783 --> 00:50:21,504
Speaker 1: Well I have to be. I was like, I'm choosing

1002
00:50:21,544 --> 00:50:22,424
Speaker 1: the darkest shade.

1003
00:50:22,504 --> 00:50:23,303
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.

1004
00:50:23,663 --> 00:50:25,504
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's that's what I'm supposed to do.

1005
00:50:25,544 --> 00:50:27,823
Speaker 2: And I've got people do They've been like why why

1006
00:50:27,864 --> 00:50:29,904
Speaker 2: is it so dark? I'm like, that's how I see myself.

1007
00:50:29,944 --> 00:50:31,943
Speaker 1: That's us, and I want you to know that it's

1008
00:50:32,143 --> 00:50:35,584
Speaker 1: that it's about it's also that I'm black and I

1009
00:50:35,584 --> 00:50:38,104
Speaker 1: see myself as it's not just about the skin tones.

1010
00:50:38,104 --> 00:50:40,663
Speaker 1: It's about the representation. Like because I was about like

1011
00:50:40,663 --> 00:50:42,464
Speaker 1: if I picked too light of a thing, so like, oh,

1012
00:50:43,143 --> 00:50:50,423
Speaker 1: that's how you see yourself. Thanks, he's high yellow, Like, yeah,

1013
00:50:50,504 --> 00:50:52,783
Speaker 1: so I remember having that thought. So when I saw

1014
00:50:52,824 --> 00:50:54,663
Speaker 1: you doing the thing for ballet shoes, saying that, like

1015
00:50:54,743 --> 00:50:58,343
Speaker 1: we need to have the the toe shoes need to

1016
00:50:58,344 --> 00:51:01,464
Speaker 1: be the need to be multiple skin tones, I was like, yeah.

1017
00:51:01,344 --> 00:51:04,224
Speaker 2: Of course, Well you set this up very beautifully because

1018
00:51:04,223 --> 00:51:06,343
Speaker 2: I feel like, you know, in the way that you

1019
00:51:06,344 --> 00:51:09,464
Speaker 2: you talked about the importance of you know, how we

1020
00:51:09,504 --> 00:51:12,663
Speaker 2: communicate in the same age, and especially how young people do,

1021
00:51:12,783 --> 00:51:15,343
Speaker 2: and emojis and what they represent and being able to

1022
00:51:15,384 --> 00:51:17,823
Speaker 2: see yourself and use your that's your voice in a

1023
00:51:17,824 --> 00:51:21,463
Speaker 2: lot of ways. And and I mean I've been trying

1024
00:51:21,504 --> 00:51:24,904
Speaker 2: to get this done for a very long time, and

1025
00:51:24,944 --> 00:51:26,783
Speaker 2: there's just so much pushback. I mean, I think there

1026
00:51:26,783 --> 00:51:29,304
Speaker 2: are some other ways in which you can like create

1027
00:51:29,303 --> 00:51:29,984
Speaker 2: your own.

1028
00:51:29,824 --> 00:51:35,464
Speaker 1: And now where you can sort of create your own emojish.

1029
00:51:34,183 --> 00:51:38,584
Speaker 2: And color, right right, But yeah, I mean I think

1030
00:51:38,623 --> 00:51:41,344
Speaker 2: that it just it's it's just goes hand in hand

1031
00:51:41,344 --> 00:51:45,504
Speaker 2: with the idea of what the ballet slipper and the

1032
00:51:45,544 --> 00:51:48,263
Speaker 2: tights and this kind of uniform represent and what the

1033
00:51:48,303 --> 00:51:52,744
Speaker 2: color which is called European pink, what that represents in ballet.

1034
00:51:53,143 --> 00:51:59,263
Speaker 2: So you know, it's it's deep. You're given these items

1035
00:51:59,864 --> 00:52:04,064
Speaker 2: that are really like, this is your entry point into this,

1036
00:52:06,663 --> 00:52:09,424
Speaker 2: you're going to start. This is your uniform, and for

1037
00:52:09,504 --> 00:52:12,383
Speaker 2: that first thing to be like, but you are not

1038
00:52:12,424 --> 00:52:14,584
Speaker 2: a part of this. We don't really see you in

1039
00:52:14,623 --> 00:52:17,024
Speaker 2: this space because we're giving you European pink tights that

1040
00:52:17,064 --> 00:52:19,983
Speaker 2: are supposed to represent your skin color, and European pink

1041
00:52:20,024 --> 00:52:24,263
Speaker 2: ballet slippers or point shoes, and and you know the

1042
00:52:24,344 --> 00:52:26,223
Speaker 2: dance suit of Harlem and Arthur Mitchell. I think, you know,

1043
00:52:26,223 --> 00:52:28,424
Speaker 2: you're really the first people to step into in the

1044
00:52:28,464 --> 00:52:32,223
Speaker 2: ballet space and say like, we're going to actually show

1045
00:52:32,263 --> 00:52:35,104
Speaker 2: you what it is to represent our skin tones. And

1046
00:52:35,104 --> 00:52:38,183
Speaker 2: and he really, you know, did that. And and these

1047
00:52:38,223 --> 00:52:41,984
Speaker 2: big ballet brands just never caught on or felt that

1048
00:52:42,104 --> 00:52:44,584
Speaker 2: it was worthy or worth their money or whatever it was.

1049
00:52:44,623 --> 00:52:47,624
Speaker 2: And it wasn't until during the pandemic that a big

1050
00:52:47,663 --> 00:52:52,263
Speaker 2: shift happened, you know, as as black and dancers was

1051
00:52:52,303 --> 00:52:54,743
Speaker 2: one of the things that these big companies started to do, like,

1052
00:52:54,984 --> 00:52:58,504
Speaker 2: oh okay, we will start making some some you know,

1053
00:52:58,783 --> 00:53:01,743
Speaker 2: ballet slippers and tights and different in different shades. And

1054
00:53:02,024 --> 00:53:07,343
Speaker 2: I wasn't dancing, and you know, black and brown tass

1055
00:53:07,384 --> 00:53:08,783
Speaker 2: is like we always just knew, like, oh, we have

1056
00:53:08,864 --> 00:53:12,183
Speaker 2: to like find some leggings, fine, some tights, find some

1057
00:53:12,424 --> 00:53:14,904
Speaker 2: whatever at the drug store that's in our skin color,

1058
00:53:14,904 --> 00:53:17,303
Speaker 2: and then we color our own point shoes to match

1059
00:53:17,303 --> 00:53:22,024
Speaker 2: our skin, like in the whole process. And it wasn't

1060
00:53:22,104 --> 00:53:25,703
Speaker 2: until my very final performance after twenty five years of

1061
00:53:25,743 --> 00:53:29,024
Speaker 2: dancing at American Maley Theater, that I performed in point

1062
00:53:29,024 --> 00:53:32,944
Speaker 2: shoes that were made in my skin color. Isn't that wild?

1063
00:53:33,143 --> 00:53:33,824
Speaker 1: That's wild?

1064
00:53:33,944 --> 00:53:39,183
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's why. And so it means it means some.

1065
00:53:39,223 --> 00:53:42,984
Speaker 1: First blood dancer ever, but we don't have the thing

1066
00:53:43,064 --> 00:53:47,263
Speaker 1: she needs to feel good about herself. Yeah, yeah, I.

1067
00:53:47,183 --> 00:53:49,663
Speaker 2: Mean it's a part of the it's a part of ballet.

1068
00:53:49,783 --> 00:53:52,463
Speaker 2: It's a part of the aesthetic is creating this this

1069
00:53:52,663 --> 00:53:55,104
Speaker 2: long through line of for your body. So you know,

1070
00:53:55,143 --> 00:53:57,783
Speaker 2: when you look at a ballet dancer in the way

1071
00:53:57,783 --> 00:53:59,303
Speaker 2: that we're used to seeing it, a you know, a

1072
00:53:59,344 --> 00:54:04,104
Speaker 2: white woman, you see their skin and the tights, it

1073
00:54:04,143 --> 00:54:06,263
Speaker 2: looks like this in the point shoe that finishes it,

1074
00:54:06,303 --> 00:54:08,183
Speaker 2: and it's this beautiful long line. And you see a

1075
00:54:08,223 --> 00:54:09,823
Speaker 2: brown dancer and you have brown skin, and all of

1076
00:54:09,824 --> 00:54:13,263
Speaker 2: a sudden you have the break of pink. You know, yeah,

1077
00:54:13,384 --> 00:54:16,904
Speaker 2: it's tight and shoe. It's going against everything we're working

1078
00:54:16,944 --> 00:54:18,823
Speaker 2: so hard in the studio to achieve to.

1079
00:54:18,864 --> 00:54:22,464
Speaker 1: Create this long line. It's interesting because we uh So.

1080
00:54:22,584 --> 00:54:25,023
Speaker 1: My first kid's book is coming out in the fall

1081
00:54:26,424 --> 00:54:29,904
Speaker 1: and written with my friend Adam Man's back and the

1082
00:54:29,984 --> 00:54:33,263
Speaker 1: artists a woman named Brianna Chambers, and it's about it's

1083
00:54:33,424 --> 00:54:35,504
Speaker 1: it's about my family, but it's like a silly it's

1084
00:54:35,904 --> 00:54:38,424
Speaker 1: I wanted to write a silly kid's book because everybody

1085
00:54:38,464 --> 00:54:39,703
Speaker 1: would be like, come, I was gonna write a book

1086
00:54:39,703 --> 00:54:41,584
Speaker 1: about how kids need to be less racist. I'm like, no,

1087
00:54:41,944 --> 00:54:44,464
Speaker 1: those are for adults. It's the adults who need to

1088
00:54:44,464 --> 00:54:47,344
Speaker 1: be less racist, not the kids. The kids are generally

1089
00:54:47,344 --> 00:54:50,984
Speaker 1: fine if the adults teach them right. And so I

1090
00:54:51,064 --> 00:54:52,343
Speaker 1: just wanted to write a silly kid's book in the

1091
00:54:52,384 --> 00:54:54,024
Speaker 1: way that the books that my kids respond to. But

1092
00:54:54,424 --> 00:54:56,664
Speaker 1: there's images of my family and it's my three daughters,

1093
00:54:56,663 --> 00:54:59,743
Speaker 1: it's Melissa, it's my mom, it's me and one of

1094
00:54:59,783 --> 00:55:03,024
Speaker 1: the key things that I made sure to do so

1095
00:55:03,064 --> 00:55:06,783
Speaker 1: it's so it's Melissa, me, my three kids, and my mom.

1096
00:55:06,864 --> 00:55:11,143
Speaker 1: Six people. Each of us have are different shades. You

1097
00:55:11,143 --> 00:55:12,544
Speaker 1: can sort of say me and my mom are the

1098
00:55:12,584 --> 00:55:14,863
Speaker 1: same shade, but we're not. If you put our skin,

1099
00:55:14,944 --> 00:55:16,584
Speaker 1: our hands next to each other, you could say that,

1100
00:55:16,623 --> 00:55:18,904
Speaker 1: like my daughter Sammy and my youngest daughter Peanut of

1101
00:55:18,944 --> 00:55:21,463
Speaker 1: the same shade because they have that mixed girl yeah,

1102
00:55:21,584 --> 00:55:23,383
Speaker 1: but they're not if you put them next to each other,

1103
00:55:23,584 --> 00:55:25,104
Speaker 1: and then you can say that Juno and Melissa are

1104
00:55:25,104 --> 00:55:27,024
Speaker 1: the same shade, as you know, as Juno knows, we

1105
00:55:27,024 --> 00:55:28,944
Speaker 1: talked about she can pass and if she you know,

1106
00:55:29,104 --> 00:55:32,663
Speaker 1: if she's got that that hidden ability, some white people

1107
00:55:32,663 --> 00:55:34,064
Speaker 1: are gonna be like, hey, let me tell you about

1108
00:55:34,104 --> 00:55:36,783
Speaker 1: these black people. She's gonna she's gonna write it down

1109
00:55:36,783 --> 00:55:40,343
Speaker 1: and give it to me, but her messer are not.

1110
00:55:40,623 --> 00:55:42,704
Speaker 1: So we really work to make sure that it's six people,

1111
00:55:43,303 --> 00:55:44,304
Speaker 1: six different shades.

1112
00:55:44,544 --> 00:55:47,064
Speaker 2: I love that. I cannot wait to see that.

1113
00:55:47,663 --> 00:55:48,864
Speaker 1: I can I can show you when we're done, I

1114
00:55:48,904 --> 00:55:50,743
Speaker 1: can show you some of the images. But yeah, because

1115
00:55:50,743 --> 00:55:52,944
Speaker 1: it's it's but it's And that was my way to

1116
00:55:52,984 --> 00:55:55,303
Speaker 1: be like, this is not a book that's going to

1117
00:55:55,344 --> 00:55:58,423
Speaker 1: address race and racism head on, but it's also about

1118
00:55:58,464 --> 00:56:02,183
Speaker 1: a family of six people with that DNA shows you

1119
00:56:02,223 --> 00:56:03,864
Speaker 1: that DNA does a lot of different things when you

1120
00:56:03,904 --> 00:56:04,944
Speaker 1: start mixing up you know.

1121
00:56:05,424 --> 00:56:06,183
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.

1122
00:56:06,384 --> 00:56:10,263
Speaker 1: Yeaheah, so that I do take that ways in which

1123
00:56:10,424 --> 00:56:13,464
Speaker 1: especially kidskids who are on their computers or on their phones,

1124
00:56:13,783 --> 00:56:16,703
Speaker 1: can find things black and brown kids that look like them,

1125
00:56:16,824 --> 00:56:18,943
Speaker 1: you know that they're not just sort of like, oh,

1126
00:56:18,984 --> 00:56:21,263
Speaker 1: I guess I got this one. There's just this one

1127
00:56:21,344 --> 00:56:23,743
Speaker 1: yellow Bart Simpson hand that I got our bartzips and

1128
00:56:23,824 --> 00:56:27,343
Speaker 1: ballet shoe or whatever it is. Yeah, before I let

1129
00:56:27,384 --> 00:56:29,223
Speaker 1: you go, thank you, thank you for doing this.

1130
00:56:29,783 --> 00:56:30,864
Speaker 2: It's been such a pleasure.

1131
00:56:30,864 --> 00:56:33,024
Speaker 1: It's been so great. I really appreciate it. You know,

1132
00:56:33,064 --> 00:56:37,944
Speaker 1: we have uh no, I think we met sort of pandemic. Yeah,

1133
00:56:38,303 --> 00:56:39,504
Speaker 1: we sort of on on.

1134
00:56:39,424 --> 00:56:42,223
Speaker 2: Twitter, didn't we And then Zoom we did.

1135
00:56:41,984 --> 00:56:43,904
Speaker 1: We did some Zoom general meetings.

1136
00:56:44,703 --> 00:56:46,703
Speaker 2: I connected with you maybe when I was coming to

1137
00:56:46,783 --> 00:56:48,944
Speaker 2: do my film in Oakland and.

1138
00:56:48,904 --> 00:56:52,584
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes. And then I went to my first

1139
00:56:52,623 --> 00:56:56,303
Speaker 1: white party in Martin's Vineyard. You were there. Yeah, never

1140
00:56:56,344 --> 00:56:57,663
Speaker 1: had to go buy all white.

1141
00:56:57,984 --> 00:57:00,143
Speaker 2: Because I was never That was so much fun and

1142
00:57:00,143 --> 00:57:02,623
Speaker 2: it was rainy in the mud, and it was like,

1143
00:57:02,663 --> 00:57:04,064
Speaker 2: this is great for a white party.

1144
00:57:04,143 --> 00:57:06,224
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was great. It was Yeah, it was so funny,

1145
00:57:06,344 --> 00:57:09,263
Speaker 1: Like I never sort of avoided. If somebody said this,

1146
00:57:09,424 --> 00:57:10,904
Speaker 1: you have to dress this party, I was like, I'm not.

1147
00:57:11,703 --> 00:57:14,623
Speaker 1: But it was in the vineyard for the black season

1148
00:57:14,623 --> 00:57:17,744
Speaker 1: of Martha's Vineyards. We have to hang out there, and

1149
00:57:17,824 --> 00:57:21,423
Speaker 1: so I'm just really excited for whatever the next thing

1150
00:57:21,504 --> 00:57:24,024
Speaker 1: is for you. Yeah, and you seem to be surrounded

1151
00:57:24,024 --> 00:57:29,144
Speaker 1: by great people and down so somewhere out there by

1152
00:57:29,144 --> 00:57:31,144
Speaker 1: a penultimate question, I had this, and then one more

1153
00:57:31,664 --> 00:57:35,864
Speaker 1: there is a little black girl, a little brown girl

1154
00:57:36,424 --> 00:57:40,704
Speaker 1: who wants to do something like this, who sees you

1155
00:57:40,784 --> 00:57:44,544
Speaker 1: and goes that, what would you? What do you say

1156
00:57:44,584 --> 00:57:45,744
Speaker 1: those little girls out there?

1157
00:57:46,904 --> 00:57:49,863
Speaker 2: You know, I think first and foremost when you when

1158
00:57:49,904 --> 00:57:55,224
Speaker 2: you discover like a passion, that it's so important to

1159
00:57:55,304 --> 00:57:58,744
Speaker 2: keep revisiting and reminding yourself of why you're doing it,

1160
00:57:59,464 --> 00:58:02,464
Speaker 2: that you're doing it for yourself, that you're you're doing

1161
00:58:02,544 --> 00:58:06,383
Speaker 2: something that you because it brings you joy. And I

1162
00:58:06,384 --> 00:58:11,784
Speaker 2: think a way to continuously, you know, achieve that is

1163
00:58:11,824 --> 00:58:16,584
Speaker 2: by having support. Like to me, like the backbone of

1164
00:58:16,624 --> 00:58:19,464
Speaker 2: my success has been the mentors that I've had around me,

1165
00:58:20,144 --> 00:58:22,863
Speaker 2: Like I through so many different chapters, I'm like, if

1166
00:58:22,904 --> 00:58:24,863
Speaker 2: I didn't have that person in that moment, who knows

1167
00:58:24,904 --> 00:58:28,184
Speaker 2: where I would be, And so I think it's really vital,

1168
00:58:28,224 --> 00:58:32,264
Speaker 2: whether it be a friend or a teacher, or an

1169
00:58:32,304 --> 00:58:34,704
Speaker 2: adult in your life or your own parents, it's so

1170
00:58:35,624 --> 00:58:40,383
Speaker 2: valuable to have a support system around you to be

1171
00:58:40,424 --> 00:58:46,423
Speaker 2: able to be there to process and you know, keep

1172
00:58:46,464 --> 00:58:49,704
Speaker 2: you on track and and sure you on and support you.

1173
00:58:51,184 --> 00:58:54,903
Speaker 1: So look for those mentors, Yeah, find those people out

1174
00:58:54,904 --> 00:58:57,544
Speaker 1: there who see you for who you are, make you

1175
00:58:57,584 --> 00:58:58,624
Speaker 1: feel good about yourself.

1176
00:58:58,704 --> 00:59:00,863
Speaker 2: Yeah, and open yourself up to that. I mean, it's

1177
00:59:00,864 --> 00:59:02,984
Speaker 2: so easy to have it be right in front of you,

1178
00:59:03,064 --> 00:59:04,863
Speaker 2: and then if you're not ready to receive it and

1179
00:59:04,904 --> 00:59:07,543
Speaker 2: open to receive it, then it's going to just pass

1180
00:59:07,584 --> 00:59:07,863
Speaker 2: you by.

1181
00:59:08,064 --> 00:59:12,224
Speaker 1: Yeah. With my kids, like whenever there's teachers that I

1182
00:59:12,264 --> 00:59:15,424
Speaker 1: see my kids responding to or or I see a

1183
00:59:15,424 --> 00:59:18,943
Speaker 1: teacher that I think my kid, I try to try

1184
00:59:18,984 --> 00:59:20,264
Speaker 1: to work hard for my kid to be like that.

1185
00:59:20,304 --> 00:59:22,984
Speaker 1: I think that person that's true. I think that might

1186
00:59:23,024 --> 00:59:24,903
Speaker 1: be your person right there, And I try to tell

1187
00:59:24,904 --> 00:59:28,184
Speaker 1: the teacher, thank you for seeing my kid. I appreciate.

1188
00:59:29,184 --> 00:59:30,504
Speaker 1: I don't want you to think that I think that

1189
00:59:30,504 --> 00:59:33,464
Speaker 1: that's not It's extra work to be a mentor in

1190
00:59:33,504 --> 00:59:36,584
Speaker 1: a situation like that, Like everybody can every teacher can teach,

1191
00:59:36,984 --> 00:59:38,904
Speaker 1: but it's extra work to say I see you and

1192
00:59:38,944 --> 00:59:41,624
Speaker 1: I want to support you, separate from the time that

1193
00:59:41,664 --> 00:59:45,384
Speaker 1: you're right in my face. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

1194
00:59:45,424 --> 00:59:47,504
Speaker 1: This conversation has flown so easily that I feel like

1195
00:59:47,704 --> 00:59:49,984
Speaker 1: I missing something. Is it really easy to talk to

1196
00:59:50,024 --> 00:59:54,304
Speaker 1: mister Copeland? It is? It is just we we got

1197
00:59:54,304 --> 00:59:56,904
Speaker 1: the Prince. We did it. I mean, we know. I

1198
00:59:56,944 --> 00:59:59,823
Speaker 1: got to make fun of Timothy Shallowing several times. This

1199
00:59:59,904 --> 01:00:02,024
Speaker 1: was really this was the dream. If I had to

1200
01:00:02,064 --> 01:00:04,383
Speaker 1: schedule the you laughed a bunch and I don't know,

1201
01:00:04,504 --> 01:00:06,744
Speaker 1: I think, is it Can it always be this easy?

1202
01:00:06,904 --> 01:00:09,024
Speaker 1: First off, there's everything anything you ever need from me

1203
01:00:09,264 --> 01:00:11,463
Speaker 1: or think that I can be valuable in anyway. I'm

1204
01:00:11,464 --> 01:00:13,184
Speaker 1: on team Misty Copelan, thank.

1205
01:00:12,984 --> 01:00:14,863
Speaker 2: You so much. Same here.

1206
01:00:14,944 --> 01:00:17,184
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I appreciate well this already did that, so

1207
01:00:17,224 --> 01:00:21,784
Speaker 1: thank you. I like to ask people because the podcast

1208
01:00:21,864 --> 01:00:24,343
Speaker 1: is who's with me? And I feel like that's the

1209
01:00:24,384 --> 01:00:27,984
Speaker 1: most important question to ask in these times of like

1210
01:00:28,144 --> 01:00:29,944
Speaker 1: are you with me? Because you're with me, we can

1211
01:00:29,944 --> 01:00:32,904
Speaker 1: then figure out everything else. And I also learned that

1212
01:00:32,944 --> 01:00:35,504
Speaker 1: my audience likes homework. They like to be told what

1213
01:00:35,624 --> 01:00:38,504
Speaker 1: to do by good people and how to support people

1214
01:00:38,504 --> 01:00:41,104
Speaker 1: out there during these hectic times. Is there a COVS

1215
01:00:41,264 --> 01:00:44,464
Speaker 1: organization that you want people to pay attention to or

1216
01:00:44,504 --> 01:00:45,464
Speaker 1: look into or support.

1217
01:00:45,544 --> 01:00:48,144
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's so many, there's so many. There's

1218
01:00:48,184 --> 01:00:50,744
Speaker 2: so many. You know, of course, you know the Misty

1219
01:00:50,744 --> 01:00:52,584
Speaker 2: Copland Foundation and the work that we're doing. We're only

1220
01:00:52,624 --> 01:00:56,104
Speaker 2: four years old and you know we have Yeah, I mean,

1221
01:00:56,384 --> 01:00:59,144
Speaker 2: it's it's important work. And we're we're in the Bronxon

1222
01:00:59,184 --> 01:01:00,864
Speaker 2: and Harlem. We haven't kind of gotten out of the

1223
01:01:01,224 --> 01:01:03,864
Speaker 2: New York area yet, but I think just in you know,

1224
01:01:03,944 --> 01:01:07,504
Speaker 2: it's it's free ballet classes offered in these communities, and

1225
01:01:07,584 --> 01:01:10,904
Speaker 2: it's in it's we've created the curriculum, like the framework

1226
01:01:11,184 --> 01:01:14,504
Speaker 2: specifically for these kids. So it's not your traditional ballet class.

1227
01:01:14,824 --> 01:01:17,343
Speaker 2: And there's live musicians in every class of all kind

1228
01:01:17,384 --> 01:01:19,784
Speaker 2: I mean, we've got like jazz musicians, musicians, we have

1229
01:01:19,864 --> 01:01:24,024
Speaker 2: African drummers like everything. It's not just classical you know piano.

1230
01:01:24,344 --> 01:01:26,704
Speaker 1: But anyways, so wait, I don't want to anyways that

1231
01:01:27,224 --> 01:01:29,704
Speaker 1: you have set up in the Bronx and Harlem free

1232
01:01:30,224 --> 01:01:33,383
Speaker 1: ballet classes in neighborhoods that are black and brown neighborhoods.

1233
01:01:33,424 --> 01:01:35,784
Speaker 2: It's in community centers, in the after school setting.

1234
01:01:35,584 --> 01:01:38,064
Speaker 1: And community centers and school settings and curriculum that is

1235
01:01:38,064 --> 01:01:40,224
Speaker 1: designed for those kids to meet them where they're at. Yes,

1236
01:01:40,304 --> 01:01:42,744
Speaker 1: so they don't feel like they're walking into the pink shoe,

1237
01:01:42,744 --> 01:01:46,544
Speaker 1: pink tight area and somebody's got and something, everybody's in

1238
01:01:46,584 --> 01:01:50,064
Speaker 1: tuxedos and right meeting them.

1239
01:01:49,904 --> 01:01:51,784
Speaker 2: Where they are in their community.

1240
01:01:51,304 --> 01:01:54,184
Speaker 1: And making them feel good. Okay. So I just feel

1241
01:01:54,224 --> 01:01:56,104
Speaker 1: like if people are listening and they look into that,

1242
01:01:56,144 --> 01:01:58,224
Speaker 1: there might be some people who have who like I

1243
01:01:58,264 --> 01:02:00,504
Speaker 1: want to bring that to my community. And my four

1244
01:02:00,544 --> 01:02:02,584
Speaker 1: oh one k is popping right now, and so let

1245
01:02:02,584 --> 01:02:04,704
Speaker 1: me figure out. So I think absolutely, I don't think, yeah,

1246
01:02:04,704 --> 01:02:06,064
Speaker 1: I think this is something we definitely.

1247
01:02:05,784 --> 01:02:09,904
Speaker 2: Want, yeah, Misticolan Foundation. But I think just investing in

1248
01:02:09,944 --> 01:02:14,104
Speaker 2: the arts and dance in general. Go see your local

1249
01:02:14,304 --> 01:02:19,984
Speaker 2: community performers, spend the money that you might put aside

1250
01:02:20,024 --> 01:02:23,584
Speaker 2: to go see sports, you know something or other. Go

1251
01:02:23,664 --> 01:02:26,424
Speaker 2: see Beyonce or Taylor Swift, you know. I mean I

1252
01:02:26,424 --> 01:02:29,904
Speaker 2: think that what's what's often said is like, well, that's

1253
01:02:29,984 --> 01:02:32,624
Speaker 2: that's not for us, it's too expensive, but you know whatever,

1254
01:02:32,664 --> 01:02:34,424
Speaker 2: and it's like, well, just I think it's really about

1255
01:02:34,704 --> 01:02:38,664
Speaker 2: rethinking how you you know, allocate your phones, allicate your funds,

1256
01:02:38,744 --> 01:02:42,383
Speaker 2: and and maybe taking a chance on investing in the

1257
01:02:42,504 --> 01:02:43,383
Speaker 2: arts in that way.

1258
01:02:43,544 --> 01:02:46,184
Speaker 1: I think. I think that's a big major point, Like

1259
01:02:46,264 --> 01:02:49,104
Speaker 1: investing in the arts sometimes sounds like you know, funding

1260
01:02:49,184 --> 01:02:52,624
Speaker 1: a foundation or something, but sometimes like go see some ballet, yeah,

1261
01:02:52,824 --> 01:02:55,863
Speaker 1: go see some go see some jazz. And I think

1262
01:02:55,864 --> 01:02:56,984
Speaker 1: for me, I want to add to that thing I

1263
01:02:56,984 --> 01:02:59,784
Speaker 1: said earlier, Go see something that you don't normally see, right, Like,

1264
01:02:59,824 --> 01:03:01,144
Speaker 1: go see something that you're like, I don't know what

1265
01:03:01,184 --> 01:03:04,184
Speaker 1: this is, and understand that even if you didn't vibe

1266
01:03:04,184 --> 01:03:06,904
Speaker 1: with it, it's still it opens you up to more things.

1267
01:03:07,184 --> 01:03:09,823
Speaker 2: You know, Curiosity so important.

1268
01:03:09,904 --> 01:03:13,184
Speaker 1: Go go go see something, Yes, go see something? Yes? Yeah,

1269
01:03:13,784 --> 01:03:16,544
Speaker 1: invest in the arts by going to see some art yes. Yeah.

1270
01:03:17,104 --> 01:03:20,064
Speaker 1: All right. Well and my last question, so who's with me?

1271
01:03:20,104 --> 01:03:20,624
Speaker 1: Are you with me?

1272
01:03:21,304 --> 01:03:23,504
Speaker 2: Oh? I am wit you all right?

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01:03:25,144 --> 01:03:26,904
Speaker 1: I just want to make sure I was asking. I

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01:03:26,904 --> 01:03:31,863
Speaker 1: feel like that's a big question. I'm glad you asked that.

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01:03:32,184 --> 01:03:35,144
Speaker 1: I've been waiting. No, not at all, not one bit.

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01:03:35,544 --> 01:03:36,344
Speaker 1: It's been good talking.

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01:03:36,944 --> 01:03:39,784
Speaker 2: Oh, this has been so wonderful. Thank you so much

1278
01:03:39,824 --> 01:03:40,343
Speaker 2: for having me.

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01:03:40,544 --> 01:03:42,343
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm so honored that you came and we

1280
01:03:42,424 --> 01:03:44,464
Speaker 1: figured it out, and I mean once we booked you,

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01:03:44,464 --> 01:03:47,624
Speaker 1: I was like, I got it, New York said yes.

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01:03:48,664 --> 01:03:50,304
Speaker 1: Although I'm staying at a hotel in New York.

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01:03:50,184 --> 01:03:52,384
Speaker 2: Because I'm close to the airport.

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01:03:52,504 --> 01:03:56,784
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've made better decisions in life. At least I'm

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01:03:56,824 --> 01:03:57,904
Speaker 1: close to the airport tomorrow.

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01:03:58,064 --> 01:04:00,264
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much.

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01:04:03,224 --> 01:04:05,504
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Who's with Me again? I

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01:04:05,544 --> 01:04:08,824
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed the conversation with mister Copeland. I really

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01:04:08,904 --> 01:04:10,584
Speaker 1: enjoyed talking to her. I like how much she laughed

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01:04:10,624 --> 01:04:12,704
Speaker 1: as a coming. It's fun when somebody laughs a lot,

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01:04:12,744 --> 01:04:15,664
Speaker 1: and I appreciate that. Thank you for laughing laughing Misty Again.

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01:04:15,904 --> 01:04:19,744
Speaker 1: Check out the Misty Copland Foundation. Also check out Misty

1293
01:04:19,744 --> 01:04:21,584
Speaker 1: Copland dot com to keep what's going on with her.

1294
01:04:21,664 --> 01:04:24,383
Speaker 1: You're here talk about her documentary projects she's doing with

1295
01:04:24,424 --> 01:04:28,144
Speaker 1: the Amazing Don Porter, So check that out. Coming soon

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01:04:28,224 --> 01:04:30,383
Speaker 1: to somewhere near you, or maybe coming at some point

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01:04:30,384 --> 01:04:32,704
Speaker 1: to somewhere near you, But check that out. Follow Misty

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01:04:32,744 --> 01:04:35,624
Speaker 1: on all her social platforms. She's big on Instagram and again,

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01:04:35,784 --> 01:04:38,104
Speaker 1: Misty Coplan Foundation so that more black and brown girls

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01:04:38,144 --> 01:04:40,423
Speaker 1: have access to ballet. I know some of you out

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01:04:40,424 --> 01:04:42,584
Speaker 1: there have big enough focatry you can help that help

1302
01:04:42,664 --> 01:04:46,304
Speaker 1: them out. Thanks to Rabagrant Productions for doing all the

1303
01:04:46,304 --> 01:04:48,504
Speaker 1: things I don't want to do, all the technical things.

1304
01:04:48,824 --> 01:04:52,744
Speaker 1: Thanks to Pushkin Industries for hosting the podcast. Thanks to

1305
01:04:52,784 --> 01:04:55,464
Speaker 1: who knows best productions, which is me and my wife

1306
01:04:55,544 --> 01:04:58,144
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in the offices right now, and thanks to

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01:04:58,184 --> 01:05:00,384
Speaker 1: you for listening. And thanks to Chris Daoud from the

1308
01:05:00,464 --> 01:05:03,704
Speaker 1: legendary band Fishbone for doing the theme music. And as always,

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01:05:03,904 --> 01:05:06,383
Speaker 1: in this next week, do something good for yourself, for

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01:05:06,464 --> 01:05:15,384
Speaker 1: your community and for the world. Take care, expect the