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Speaker 1: The following is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com

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Speaker 1: and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club. This He's Talking Cowboys

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Speaker 1: training live from the Dallas Cowboys World Hours at the

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Speaker 1: Star in Chris Jody, Hello again, and welcome to another

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Speaker 1: edition of One Talking Cowboys one on one. My name

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Speaker 1: is Heckman Harrison, and today I have a very special guest.

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Speaker 1: This guy is a part of a company that is

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Speaker 1: taking over pro football football in general. Uh these initials

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Speaker 1: p f F. If you don't know the name, I

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Speaker 1: promise you you should. And they are standing at the

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Speaker 1: finish line waving the flag on their competition. And this

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Speaker 1: guy is amazing. He's a jose A degree from Loyola

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Speaker 1: merrimonth In mat Madox, a former teacher and now currently

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Speaker 1: the chief revenue Officer, data scientist and co host of

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Speaker 1: PF Forecast. This guy's a genius. He's gonna play humble

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Speaker 1: and deny it. However, the one thing that he cannot

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Speaker 1: deny is that he has the best hairline and all

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Speaker 1: of analytics. Man, my guy, mister George Jory, how are

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Speaker 1: you saying? I don't know how I'm gonna ever talk

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Speaker 1: that intro that was the nicest thing that just about

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Speaker 1: anyone's ever said about me. But man, I appreciate. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to talk Cowboys, to talk to football, and everything

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Speaker 1: you said about PFF I think is true, and I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm happy and excited and thankful to be on a

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Speaker 1: great team with a lot of people around me that

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Speaker 1: are honestly doing some really cool and awesome stuff. So

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Speaker 1: it should be a lot of fun. Man, I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to talking to you. Oh good, George. Man, Well, listen.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I gotta tell you, I'm a

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Speaker 1: big fan of you guys. You and Eric, you guys

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Speaker 1: are it's ere Gas mcgold listening to you guys. I

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Speaker 1: get a lot of my facts from you and Eric,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know how you maintain a straight face

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Speaker 1: with that guy, because I'm telling you here is hilarious.

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Speaker 1: But look, one of the things that I've been doing,

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Speaker 1: and I've argued about this part in the segment because

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Speaker 1: I think it's very important, man, But if you could

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Speaker 1: tell me, give me your quarantine chronicles, give me the

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Speaker 1: cliff notes to what it's been like dealing with COVID nineteen. Man,

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Speaker 1: First off, I would say, Man, I I thank God

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Speaker 1: above for the fact that I still have a job

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Speaker 1: and my health. So that part has been fantastic, And

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's been harder, keeping a straight face

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Speaker 1: when Eric makes some sarcastic comment that like two people

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Speaker 1: in the world will get, or the fact that I

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Speaker 1: am without a gym, which has honestly been one of

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Speaker 1: the hardest parts of the whole quarantine. I've been quarantining

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Speaker 1: here in DC. I live in since Stan that's where

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Speaker 1: pfact is. But my girlfriend works and lives in DC

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Speaker 1: see and can't really pick where she's going to be

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Speaker 1: because of her job. So I have been annoying her

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Speaker 1: to no end in her small little studio without a gym,

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Speaker 1: and so I've been doing all kinds of weird body

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Speaker 1: weight workouts in this small, like tiny, cramped space. And

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Speaker 1: so that's been a huge part of my quarantine. In

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Speaker 1: addition to look, every night you sit there and you go,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't have to I don't have to

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Speaker 1: go anywhere tomorrow. Maybe one glass of tequila or a

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Speaker 1: glass of wine won't kill me. So that's basically been

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Speaker 1: my quarantine wrapped into one man. Listen, I feel you

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Speaker 1: in the quarantine. Fifteen is for real, and I'm a

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Speaker 1: sufferer fifteen myself. I mean, look times like these Knat

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Speaker 1: chocolate chip cookies. Okay, so let's be real about it,

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Speaker 1: or another shop tequila, whichever you prefer. You're so spot on.

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Speaker 1: I feel like everyone when the quarantine started, and I

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Speaker 1: was one of these people, was like, Okay, I have

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Speaker 1: all this opportunity ahead of me. I'm going to learn

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Speaker 1: a new language. I'm gonna read three books that I'd

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Speaker 1: never have gotten to read, and I'm gonna get in

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Speaker 1: great shape. And then all of a sudden it was like, oh, wait, no,

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Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. I'm gonna be lazy. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: watch some show that I've already watched three times, and

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Speaker 1: when it comes to ordering ice cream, I'll probably get

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Speaker 1: four point four pints instead of three, because why not, George,

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Speaker 1: I feel you man, Listen, let's get down to it.

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Speaker 1: And the one thing that I am so fascinated about

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Speaker 1: the PF, and I am a pinging subscriber to PF.

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Speaker 1: I love you guys in by the way, yeah, of course,

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Speaker 1: of course listen. And the other thing is you and

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Speaker 1: Eric have got to mention me as a friend of

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Speaker 1: the show. Boy. I'll talk about that later, all right.

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Speaker 1: But the thing about PFF that I find so fascinating is,

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Speaker 1: you know, the vision of Neil Hornsby that started in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen or two thousand and four, and with Chris

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Speaker 1: collins Worth the partnership and taking this thing to the

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Speaker 1: next level. What you guys have brought to foot and

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Speaker 1: your motto of judging every player, every play, every game

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Speaker 1: has added a completely new dimension to evaluating football. Like

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Speaker 1: for guys like Will McClay, Senior vice president of Player Personnel,

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Speaker 1: this is invaluable. And you see coaches endorsing PFF. You

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Speaker 1: see you know in the NC double A endorsing PF.

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Speaker 1: How have you guys been able to capture this large

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Speaker 1: market in such a short period of time, you know?

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned Neil, and Neil had a hobby honestly

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Speaker 1: that he was super passionate about it. And I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's something that you always hear in stories where

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Speaker 1: there's a success at the end, is someone's just really

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Speaker 1: passionate about something. And I don't know anyone that loves

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Speaker 1: football more than that crazy englishman Neil Hornsby, who if

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Speaker 1: you've ever heard his accent is startling, as as is

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Speaker 1: his football knowledge. And Chris tells a great story about

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Speaker 1: the first time that he ever talked to Neil. He

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Speaker 1: had heard about I think after the Giants won their

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Speaker 1: first Super Bowl and a super Bowl and mentioned PF

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Speaker 1: I think it was actually maybe their second one, and

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Speaker 1: had mentioned PF because they've been using it. And he

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Speaker 1: calls up Neil and he tells the story. He goes,

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Speaker 1: I thought I'd dialed the wrong number because when I

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Speaker 1: heard him say hello, I was like, this can't be it.

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Speaker 1: Some Brits gonna tell me about football, and he says,

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Speaker 1: you know, within ten minutes, he goes, this guy knows

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Speaker 1: more about football than I do. And it's a testament

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Speaker 1: to what analyzing every player on every play and every

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Speaker 1: game can do, and also being humble about it, saying, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to let my preconceived notions or beliefs

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Speaker 1: about a player draw me in any direction. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be brutally honest with how they've performed on that

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Speaker 1: play and in that game and in that season. And

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Speaker 1: I think it's helped, you know, it's obviously helped our

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Speaker 1: company a ton that Chris has invested, and you know,

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Speaker 1: it's such a hands on I talked to Chris more

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Speaker 1: than just about anyone. He has a wealth of knowledge,

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Speaker 1: obvious slee but he leverages PF. He really cares so

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Speaker 1: much about when he's calling a game, being right and

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Speaker 1: being accurate and doing a service to the game that

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Speaker 1: we're watching the best game of the week. Um. And

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Speaker 1: I hear the impact of PF in basically every game

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Speaker 1: that he calls, if not every play. UM. And it's

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Speaker 1: it all comes down to passion, you know. Neil is

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Speaker 1: passionate about it. Chris is passionate about um, you know,

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Speaker 1: calling the game of football. And I'd like to think

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Speaker 1: that myself and all the people that work um, you know,

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Speaker 1: kind of under the cover of darkness in Cincinnati, we

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Speaker 1: all love football too. And so it makes grinding those

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Speaker 1: extra few hours, whether it be coding something up or watching,

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Speaker 1: you know, an extra few games of film, makes it easy.

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Speaker 1: So I appreciate all the kind things you said. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna hook you up. Though you have been

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Speaker 1: very kind. We might even have to get you on

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Speaker 1: the forecast. I don't know how you feel about that, man,

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Speaker 1: I feel real good about it. But listen, I got

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Speaker 1: to ask, well, no, I have to ask this question.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if you watch Sunday Night Football, Chris Collinsworth,

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Speaker 1: it's shameless plug for PF every Sunday night. You know

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Speaker 1: he's saying something about a PFF stat But the thing

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Speaker 1: that I find very remarkable is the fact that coach

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Speaker 1: like coach Mike McCarthy, and you know, the year before

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Speaker 1: before he received the job as the Cowboys coach, he's

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Speaker 1: that was one of the things that he delved into.

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Speaker 1: He talked to Peter Peter King about that in an

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Speaker 1: in an interview, saying that how valuable Pro Football focus

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Speaker 1: was to him revamping his strategy as a coach and

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Speaker 1: optimizing his play calling, everything from that to grading players.

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Speaker 1: And like I said, for you guys, as an organization,

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Speaker 1: coaches swear by you. How did you earn that trust

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Speaker 1: so quickly? Well, one of the things that Chris does

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Speaker 1: every single week, and this is a part of the

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Speaker 1: production of Sunday Night Football, is but he talked to

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Speaker 1: every coach and I mean the Packers were on a

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Speaker 1: few Sunday night games in their day, so you know

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Speaker 1: he's talked to Mike McCarthy plenty of times. And that's

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Speaker 1: how they prepare, and so coaches have become familiar with

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Speaker 1: us in really two ways. Their departments, whether it be

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Speaker 1: analytics or scouting, or their coaches are leveraging it on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis to help prepare for games, to evaluate players,

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Speaker 1: you know, just to watch film more efficiently. And then

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Speaker 1: on the other side of things, they see, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, people calling the games and you're you're right

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Speaker 1: about this are using it to talk about the game

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Speaker 1: more eloquently, and so coaches have become very familiar with it.

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Speaker 1: And Mike McCarthy, who I had the pleasure of sitting

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Speaker 1: down with and talking to for about an hour when

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Speaker 1: he came to Cincinnati. You know, they're able to let

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Speaker 1: their hair down and just be like, Hey, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to come here and I'm going to talk football, and

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Speaker 1: I might learn a few things. I might push back

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Speaker 1: on a few. We learned so much. I think it's

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Speaker 1: always fun to talk about how much you teach other people.

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Speaker 1: But I've learned a ton from listening to, you know,

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Speaker 1: the different coaches we talked to at the combine as well,

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Speaker 1: and I am excited to see what this Dallas Cowboys

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Speaker 1: team can be because Mike McCarthy did a lot of

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Speaker 1: things that were innovative. I mean everyone thinks about that

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Speaker 1: end with Aaron Rodgers, and it was ugly. I mean

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Speaker 1: I talked to some people that were questioning whether Rogers

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Speaker 1: was realistically kind of throwing them under the bus with

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Speaker 1: some of his play. So that's about as ugly as

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Speaker 1: it gets. But before that, there was this offensive explosion

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Speaker 1: that Green Bay had. I mean, they had a great

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Speaker 1: quarterback play. Obviously they had great receivers, but that was

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Speaker 1: one of the best offenses year in and year out.

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Speaker 1: And now in Dallas, he's got a nucleus that honestly

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Speaker 1: is not that dissimilar. I mean, they've got three stud

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Speaker 1: wide receivers that you're excited to watch, they have a

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Speaker 1: great offensive line, they have a quarterback look. Dak Prescott

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Speaker 1: is not Aaron Rodgers from the talent perspective, but he's

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Speaker 1: pretty darn good. And if he brings some of these

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Speaker 1: new efficiencies that he is fine tuning with, whether it

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Speaker 1: be situational play calling, whether it be going forward on

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Speaker 1: fourth down things that he has, you know, maybe he'll

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Speaker 1: admit in some situations has messed up on in the

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Speaker 1: past that could make for a really exciting season. So um,

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Speaker 1: you know, not not to get too carried away with it,

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Speaker 1: but I am really the Cowboys are one of the

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Speaker 1: teams that I'm most interested in seeing this season. God

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Speaker 1: willingly have one. Yeah, we're gonna have one. Man, We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have Well, I'm just claiming it right now. But

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Speaker 1: you you kind of segue into something that I really

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Speaker 1: want to talk about, and that's Dak Prescott. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Pro Football Focus has a very interesting perspective on how

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Speaker 1: you guys grade quarterbacks. I mean from formation to empty

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Speaker 1: you know, to no pressure or two pressure, things like that.

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Speaker 1: And when you look at Dak's grade from his first

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Speaker 1: year all the way through the fourth year, pretty much average.

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Speaker 1: He's about high seventies, but first year in the eighties,

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Speaker 1: fourth year in the eighties as well, and that's indicative

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Speaker 1: of all the yards that he's had. Looking at the

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Speaker 1: lack of an extension and Dak playing under the franchise tag,

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Speaker 1: and the thing that's alarming about it is historically franchise

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Speaker 1: quarterbacks have never had to play under the franchise tag.

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Speaker 1: Were you and it's too I guess there's questions two sided?

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Speaker 1: Were you surprised that Dak didn't receive an extension based

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Speaker 1: off of those numbers, And what do you believe Dak

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Speaker 1: Prescott has to do to be considered amongst that upper

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Speaker 1: echelon of quarterbacks in the NFL. Great question. I was surprised.

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Speaker 1: I guess I'm less surprised this year than I was

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Speaker 1: surprised that he wasn't one of the first players they

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Speaker 1: went to lock up. And you know, I think sometimes

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Speaker 1: you are faced with a ton of different situations, and

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Speaker 1: obviously the Cowboys were, and you kind of, you know,

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Speaker 1: you maybe lose track of which one is really the

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Speaker 1: most important. If I looked at all those players that

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Speaker 1: the Cowboys had to lock up, Dak was one with

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Speaker 1: a bullet Because it doesn't matter who your stud receiver is,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who your running back is, doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: who your edge defender, your best edge defender is if

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Speaker 1: you can't have a quarterback throwing the ball accurately and

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Speaker 1: making plays. So I thought that following looking just at

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Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Eagles what they did with Carson Wentz, which

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Speaker 1: I thought was a really shrewd move, which is to say, look,

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Speaker 1: I know, the price for quarterback play maybe the hardest

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Speaker 1: to fined skill in the world is only going up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's only there's no way that it's going down,

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Speaker 1: and so locking a guy up early would make sense.

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Speaker 1: So after they decided, you know, they're not going to

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Speaker 1: do that, it then made me less surprised this year

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Speaker 1: that they couldn't come to an agreement because clearly the

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Speaker 1: Cowboys had a view of Dak press Scot that he

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Speaker 1: was not as valuable as Dak thought he was. And

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Speaker 1: if you look at what the Frank Guise tag gives

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Speaker 1: him this year, which is about thirty two million, and

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Speaker 1: then you go, okay, well next year, I mean, how

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Speaker 1: bad does he have to play? Cannot be worth another

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Speaker 1: franchise tag because there aren't quarterback options growing on trees.

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Speaker 1: We saw with Kirk Cousins he didn't have that great

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Speaker 1: of a year after his first franchise tag and tag

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Speaker 1: him again. You just don't have that many options. So

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Speaker 1: to me, the Cowboys put themselves behind the eight ball,

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Speaker 1: and Dad Prescott is now the guy with the leverage.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's got an amazing supporting cast around him.

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Speaker 1: He's already had, you know, arguably his best year. His

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Speaker 1: rookie year was great. But I thought last year, he

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Speaker 1: kind of put the team war on his back. He

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Speaker 1: was our third most valuable player using wins above replacement

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Speaker 1: over the course of the regular season, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean that is a testament to what he kind

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Speaker 1: of took on himself. And now as a coach, I

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Speaker 1: thought Kellen Moore did a great job of leveraging the

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Speaker 1: passing game and the right sit and now I think

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Speaker 1: with McCarthy there's going to be an extra bit of innovation,

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Speaker 1: willingness to let Dak shine. That betting on yourself in

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Speaker 1: that situation sounds pretty appealing to me. So so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is I'm surprised the Cowboys

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Speaker 1: missed it a year ago, and at this point I'd

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Speaker 1: be very surprised if they are able to get Dak

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Speaker 1: Prescott at any sort of discount. Ever, again, yeah, everyone

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Speaker 1: knows the price is going up, it's not going down.

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Speaker 1: And like you said, the frenchise sac thirty two million

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Speaker 1: dollars and next year, I believe is thirty seven million dollars,

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Speaker 1: And that's sixty nine million dollars in two years. And

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Speaker 1: I don't think Dak would be disappointed with that. Neither

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Speaker 1: would none of us would, George, none of us would.

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Speaker 1: But the truth of the matter is is that you

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Speaker 1: you know, you've seen this circumstance with Kirk Cousins, but

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Speaker 1: at the same time, when you find a young guy

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Speaker 1: like Dak prescotting, you just look over the years at

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Speaker 1: the numbers. It's, in my opinion and based off of

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Speaker 1: what I'm getting for Pro Football Focus, deck is trending

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Speaker 1: in the direction of your upper echelon quarterbacks in the NFL.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's hard because you go, Okay, well, I

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Speaker 1: just saw the Kansas City Chiefs win a Super Bowl

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Speaker 1: with Patrick Mahomes and Patrick Holmes is transcendent. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to find a Patrick Mahomes just you know,

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Speaker 1: in the next draft, right or the next ten drafts,

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Speaker 1: so the next twenty I mean, how often did those

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Speaker 1: guys come around? And so you say to yourself, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: where's the cutoff? Like where can I win with a quarterback?

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Speaker 1: And I'm looking for a guy that can have a

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Speaker 1: top ten season, and I believe that Dak Prescott is

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Speaker 1: a guy capable of having a top ten season. I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you were drafting quarterbacks right now, and we did

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Speaker 1: at PF a few weeks ago, which I thought was

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Speaker 1: a really interesting exercise. We redrafted the league. Here was

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Speaker 1: a guy that went in the top ten, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's right on. I don't think he's a guy

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Speaker 1: you've taken the top five, but you're not going to

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Speaker 1: find those guys. Uh, you know, just at will. You

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Speaker 1: can't say I'm gonna get rid of Dak Prescott and

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Speaker 1: go find myself a top five guy. That's not going

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Speaker 1: to happen. So um, I think you have to pay

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Speaker 1: for a top ten quarterback and you have to understand

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Speaker 1: that you're probably going to set, you know, some sort

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Speaker 1: of standard. I think Mahomes was interesting and that it

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Speaker 1: was definitely a bar that was right, you know, raised

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Speaker 1: a bit, but it wasn't as much as people want

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Speaker 1: to believe. I mean, it was a ten year deal.

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Speaker 1: It was basically kind of these two five year deals.

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Speaker 1: Obviously the total figure was massive, but it also allowed

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Speaker 1: them to sign Chris Jones. You know, like the money

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Speaker 1: that that Patrick Mahomes is getting over the next two

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Speaker 1: years is about what Miles Garrett is getting, so you know,

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Speaker 1: so there are different ways to look at these things

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Speaker 1: than just kind of the overall macro view and and

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Speaker 1: with quarterbacks, you're just going to have to set you know,

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Speaker 1: some of those um you know those parameters, you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to extend them a little bit and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: have to accept it. And not every guy is going

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Speaker 1: to be Patrick Mullins. But if you can get top

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Speaker 1: ten play, it's worth it because there are ten guys

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Speaker 1: in the world that can give that to you. And

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Speaker 1: Dak Prescott it was weird his rookie year. He had

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Speaker 1: such a good supporting cast, and then kind of throughout

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Speaker 1: the organization. I felt like from coaching on down, it

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Speaker 1: really petered out in those next two years. And with

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Speaker 1: a Marti Cooper coming in, a receiver that could actually

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Speaker 1: get open, and now he's got three of them, he's

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Speaker 1: got a solid offensive line. I would say what we

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Speaker 1: saw last year is way more indicative, but we'll see

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Speaker 1: going forward than anything else. Now we're going to switch

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Speaker 1: over to the other side of the ball, and the

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Speaker 1: question is about our linebacker linebacking corps. The thing is,

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Speaker 1: two years ago PFF had Jalen Smith and Layton vander

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Speaker 1: Ess ranked as the top duo of linebackers in the NFL,

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Speaker 1: and that's saying a lot with the kind of youth

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Speaker 1: and talent that there is at the linebacker position. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: last year man not the same, all right, the percentages

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Speaker 1: away down Layton Vanderas obviously dealing with the neck issue.

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Speaker 1: And also I'm sure Jayala Smith would agree that last

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Speaker 1: year wasn't possibly his best year statistically. Going forward and

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Speaker 1: looking at this new Cowboys defense, and you and Eric

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Speaker 1: have made a lot about pass rush versus pass protection

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Speaker 1: and things like that, but just the efficiency of the

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Speaker 1: linebacking group from for the Dallas Cowboys, how do you

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Speaker 1: see the improvement there being something that asks to the

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Speaker 1: overall success of the Cowboys defense. Something that we try

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Speaker 1: to talk about is going from season to season, people

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Speaker 1: are really tied to what they saw the last year.

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Speaker 1: So they see a defense play well the last year

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Speaker 1: and they go, all right, they're going to be dominant

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Speaker 1: again the next year. And there's a way to test

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Speaker 1: this mathematically. How confident should you be? And defense is

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Speaker 1: something that you just don't have a lot of confidence.

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Speaker 1: It's in from season to season things fluctuate, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of that is because they're playing defense. The offense

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Speaker 1: is the one that decides where to go. With the ball,

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Speaker 1: so they control a little bit more of these things.

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Speaker 1: And so just by its very nature, defense is more volatile.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got things like injury. Right, Layton Vanderesh

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Speaker 1: was great and then he was injured and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: so great. I want to say his mistackle rate doubled

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Speaker 1: last season. Jalen Smith was not quite himself either. But

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Speaker 1: we just came out today with our linebacker unit rankings.

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Speaker 1: My man Steve Palozzolo put them together. I have a

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Speaker 1: couple of beefs with him. There's you know, let's not

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Speaker 1: mix that up. But he has the Cowboys at number two.

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Speaker 1: I'll let everyone listening go find out who number one is.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I quite I guess I kind of

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Speaker 1: agree with it, But that tells you the potential for

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Speaker 1: these guys. Now it comes down to health, and it

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Speaker 1: also comes down a little bit to luck. Are you

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Speaker 1: playing a bunch of great offenses that can take advantage

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Speaker 1: of you? Because the offense ultimately dictates things. But here's

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Speaker 1: what I like about both those guys. They're both athletic

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Speaker 1: and they can cover. And if I am thinking about

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Speaker 1: a linebacker in today's NFL, I know we are you know,

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Speaker 1: sort of tune to think about linebackers. The guy that's

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Speaker 1: a hard hitting, you know, football player, if their ability

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Speaker 1: to cover is the number one thing that I'm looking for,

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Speaker 1: and both those guys have shown the ability to do that.

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Speaker 1: So if I'm looking at what could be, Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: could be the best linebacking unit in the NFL this year, certainly,

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Speaker 1: and they're one of the teams that has the best

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Speaker 1: chance to do it. Okay, now, I'm telling you, I've

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Speaker 1: heard a lot of fascinated arguments from you and Eric,

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Speaker 1: and I think that one, when it comes down to

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Speaker 1: pass coverage versus pass rush, is very intriguing. And I

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Speaker 1: think you used the example of us an illustration of

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Speaker 1: Aaron Donald beating his guy and create and getting a sack.

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Speaker 1: But you attribute Jalen Ramsey value add to Aaron Donald

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Speaker 1: getting the sack because you, on average, quarterbacks passed the

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Speaker 1: ball two and a half seconds and Jayla Ramsey just

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Speaker 1: sticking the quarterback hold the ball for that tenth of

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Speaker 1: a second creates that value for Aaron Donald. Now that

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Speaker 1: permeates not just through the coaching staff with bringing in

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Speaker 1: guys or drafting guys like Jayla Ramsey. That also goes

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Speaker 1: up to the general manager and how you pay guys

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Speaker 1: when you look at it on the back end side

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Speaker 1: being creating that value. I think that when you talk

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Speaker 1: to football purists, the knowledge is build from inside out

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Speaker 1: and not outside in. But the numbers are supporting different

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Speaker 1: Speak to that man and how that changes football. It's

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Speaker 1: definitely a nuanced conversation. And I think sometimes you can

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Speaker 1: throw out, you know, we live in a world where

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Speaker 1: you've got to get your point across in ten seconds

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Speaker 1: and or one hundred forty characters or less, and so

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Speaker 1: you'll say something like pass rush is more valuable than coverage,

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Speaker 1: or pass rush matters more than coverage, and immediately you've

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Speaker 1: offended someone because you've made it seem like their life's

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Speaker 1: work as a pass rusher does not matter. And that's

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Speaker 1: not the case. But the prevailing conventional wisdom has been

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Speaker 1: pass rush matters way more than pass coverage. I think,

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Speaker 1: honestly a lot of it is because what do you

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Speaker 1: watch on TV when you see a quarterback and you

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Speaker 1: see the pass rushers and sacks are certainly super important,

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Speaker 1: but those happen view and far between, right, So what

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Speaker 1: is happening on all of those other plays and coverage

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Speaker 1: plays a massive role, especially now that the passing game

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Speaker 1: is so important, and so you know, it's not something

429
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,199
Speaker 1: that's impossible to test. We grade every coverage player, we

430
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: grade every pass rusher, and you can test out the

431
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: value of having high grades or a pass coverage unit

432
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: versus high grades for a pass rushing unit. And what

433
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: you see is being elite as a coverage unit versus

434
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,960
Speaker 1: being elite as a pass rush unit. The difference is

435
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: like almost two wins on average in the favor of

436
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: the coverage nit. And I think this has been borne

437
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: out in a lot of successful teams. And give you

438
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 1: a couple of examples here. The New England Patriots have

439
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:20,200
Speaker 1: invested in a multifaceted coverage unit. Their defensive backs are awesome.

440
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: They stifle teams. And if you can name a pass

441
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 1: rusher on that team right now, and you're not a

442
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 1: Patriots fan, I applaud you. You know, like there aren't

443
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: that many. I mean, they're leading guy in terms of

444
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: pressures last year was a reject off ball linebacker named

445
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 1: Kyle van Noy from the Detroit Lions. Like he wasn't

446
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: good enough for the Lions and they're terrible teams. So

447
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: that tells you about the ways that you can scheme pressure.

448
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: You know, you can glitz and creative ways you can

449
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 1: run stunts. But in coverage, yeah, you can put guys

450
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: in a position to win. But as you spoke to

451
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,440
Speaker 1: if Jalen Ramsey can't cover for two seconds and you're

452
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 1: playing a good quarterback, you're done. And I'll take it

453
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: one step further. Even if you have a good number

454
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: one guy and a good number two guy, if your

455
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: number three guy can't cover, guess what, I can pick

456
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,959
Speaker 1: on him all day long. So not only does it

457
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: take understanding the value of coverage, it takes investing in

458
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: it a lot, because you have to put five guys

459
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:21,239
Speaker 1: out there that can cover. On the defensive line, you

460
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: can get one guy. You know, if you have Aaron Donald,

461
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: you have a pretty good pass rush. So thinking about

462
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: all of those components can help you invest You know,

463
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,000
Speaker 1: I would take tons of shots at defensive back, be

464
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 1: willing certainly more amenable to paying some great pass rushers

465
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: because I'm confident they'll be able to continue that play

466
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: and I'm confident that they'll help my pass rush as

467
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: a whole. But it might make me shy away from

468
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: being the chiefs and paying two guys you know, that

469
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: much money. So there's so many different ways that comes

470
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: into play. It's a fascinating conversation. It's I'm glad we're

471
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: able to have that conversation here instead of me just

472
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: offending ninety percent of the people out there by telling

473
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 1: him pass rush doesn't matter. The analytics movement is here.

474
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: Either you get on or get rolled over basically is

475
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: the term for this man. But look, those are all

476
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: of my tough questions. I am it is man. I'm

477
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 1: honored to have this opportunity to talk to you because, look, man,

478
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: I'm a part of that analytics community. I think it's

479
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 1: taking over football in that situational awareness is everything and

480
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: when you can maximize on that, that's where you and

481
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: guy's like Eric come in and so but listen, man,

482
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,960
Speaker 1: this is the exciting part of this show because I'm

483
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: at my rapid fire questions. There's just random things that

484
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: I think around the house when I'm doing my chores,

485
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: and I figured out to ask you these all right, George,

486
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: So I'm ready for you guacamole or hummus. Oh, I'm

487
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:51,160
Speaker 1: lo the knees. So a real good hummus is gonna

488
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: get it for me. But man, comparing it to guacomole

489
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: is tough because those are like my two favorite foods

490
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: out there. But I have to side with my nationality.

491
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: I have to ask you that you know, I know?

492
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: All right? Now, are you a d Y kind of guy?

493
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 1: Are you an Angie's List kind of guy? I'm a

494
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: DIY kind of guy because I hate spending like an

495
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: extra twenty five thirty dollars on something that I'm not

496
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,159
Speaker 1: I'm not eating. Basically, I'll spend it on good food

497
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: and everything else. I gotta do it myself, all right.

498
00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: All right, now, you're you're all right, You're you're a

499
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: fitness guy. So if you got one set, you're gonna

500
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: max out and you're going heavy and you need that

501
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: one jam to play through your earbuds. What's that one song? Man?

502
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 1: I was just thinking about this and I had such

503
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: a hard time. Um, I'm gonna go with till I

504
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: collapse by eminem All right, my man, I'm man, Okay.

505
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: So open a day you get an opportunity to sit

506
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 1: in a stadium charges in rams game? Whose side are

507
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: you sitting on? La? Charges in La Rams? I'm going

508
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:02,440
Speaker 1: with the La Rams. Um, I like Sean McVay, and yeah,

509
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,640
Speaker 1: that's that's about where i'd go. It's a tough one

510
00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: because I was in so cal for a good part

511
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: of my life and before either of those teams were there.

512
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: And I have friends that have latched on they they've

513
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: jumped on the bandwagon. They've all jumped on the Rams bandwagon.

514
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 1: So I'd be sitting with my friends there all right.

515
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:22,919
Speaker 1: Oh good, Now I'm gonna say a name, and you

516
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: tell me what you think about this guy to rail

517
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:31,240
Speaker 1: Boys entertaining, entertaining, All right, Now, I heard he was

518
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: one of the guys that got you to watch him football,

519
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, to he is your guy, right, I love to.

520
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: I mean I will never forget where I was standing

521
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: when I watched at incredible catch, the catch two point zero. Um.

522
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: I just found him so refreshing. I find him funny

523
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: in an organic way. And those are people we all know,

524
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 1: those people right where You're like, just being around that guy,

525
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna laugh and have a good time made me

526
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: really enjoy the game of football. I don't think he

527
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: gets enough credit that too many people hate on to

528
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: with you on Matt Man Now, George. Tell the people

529
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: how they can find you. On social media. You find

530
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 1: me p F underscored George. You'll find my sarcastic comments.

531
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 1: Know that, And occasionally I'll throw out a good stat

532
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 1: here or there, probably pointing in the direction it's some

533
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: good PF content, because the person that probably enjoys reading

534
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: the articles that we pump out more than anybody else

535
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: is this guy right here. So I'll lead you in

536
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: the right direction. But you can follow our main handle

537
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: as well, PF on Twitter, you find us on Instagram.

538
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 1: We've got some real talented people putting some good content

539
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: out there. So wherever you're looking, we've got you covered. Hey, George,

540
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: don't you worry about the gym's closing moment, because you

541
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: still look like the best crop top model I have

542
00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: to see. Man. Yeah, the man. I appreciate it. Thank you, brother, Yeah,

543
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and thank all of you for

544
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: joining us here on Talking Cowboys. We'll see you. There's news.

545
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: He was named Stree