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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media book Club, the club Club Club Club

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Speaker 1: Club Club Club that'll never get old. Everyone loves it.

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Speaker 1: Everyone loves thinking back to the era of when every

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Speaker 1: conversation had to be on zoom and you realized you

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Speaker 1: couldn't sink anything. This is Cool Zone Media book Club.

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Marta Kiljoy, and this is the book

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Speaker 1: club that you don't have to do the reading for

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Speaker 1: because I do it for you. And this time I

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Speaker 1: mean that more than usual, because I'm going to do

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Speaker 1: some reading and then I'm going to talk with my

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Speaker 1: friend about that reading. I'm going to talk to my

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Speaker 1: friend Greg. Hi, Greg, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing well? How about you?

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Speaker 1: I'm doing good. I'm up late, so I have like energy,

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Speaker 1: which of course is logical and will serve me. Well, no,

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Speaker 1: it isn't. I'm going to crash really hard after we're

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Speaker 1: done recording, but other than that, I'm okay. So the

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Speaker 1: story that I want to read to you, Greg is

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Speaker 1: a story that you've already read. And I know that

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Speaker 1: because when I read this story, I reached out to

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Speaker 1: you because my friend Greg, for anyone who's listening, is

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Speaker 1: let's call you an anarchist technology enthusiast that's a normal

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Speaker 1: thing to say. Is that a fair way to describe you?

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Speaker 2: Yes, If it has a circuit, I probably opened it

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Speaker 2: up or played with it or learned how it works.

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Speaker 1: Awesome. This is a science fiction story, rather a speculative

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Speaker 1: fiction story that appeared on the website crimethink dot com

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Speaker 1: earlier this week. It appeared on March twenty.

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Speaker 2: First.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go and read it yourself, it's

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Speaker 1: at crimething dot com, slash whatever stuff. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Just search it, but don't google it. As we'll talk about,

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Speaker 1: you should probably duck duck go it. This is a

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Speaker 1: story called Survival, a story about anarchists enduring mass raids,

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Speaker 1: and it's a thought experiment. It's speculative fiction and kind

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Speaker 1: of one of the oldest definitions of that, one of

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Speaker 1: the oldest concepts of that, which is just literally, hey,

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Speaker 1: what would happen if and what kind of like science

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Speaker 1: and technology can we use to address a set of problems?

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Speaker 1: And before we start, I'll say what I overall think

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Speaker 1: is that I find this a really interesting thought experiment,

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Speaker 1: but one that I have, like I had some maybe

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Speaker 1: critiques of and so that's why I decided to talk

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Speaker 1: to my friend Greg, and so we're going to kind

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Speaker 1: of read this story and then talk it through to you.

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Speaker 1: And this is going to be a two week thing

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Speaker 1: because this is a slightly longer than normal story. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, Greg, what are your first thoughts going into

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Speaker 1: this thing that people don't know what we're talking about yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that my first thoughts are about

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Speaker 2: the same. I think that it's always good to write

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Speaker 2: out things, to imagine scenarios that you might be in,

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Speaker 2: so you can preemptively think through how you would deal

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Speaker 2: with them. And I think that this story does a

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Speaker 2: good job of that. And I think that, like part

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Speaker 2: of the reason why I wanted to talk about this

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Speaker 2: with other people is that I think we could go

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Speaker 2: a little bit deeper and then maybe come out on

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Speaker 2: the other end where people can think about it a

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Speaker 2: little bit more an actionable way in their everyday lives,

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Speaker 2: as opposed to reading this and then you know, going

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Speaker 2: on to the next terrible thing of the day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point. We had to start this

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Speaker 1: late because I had just reinstalled everything on my computer

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Speaker 1: and part of my process of de googling, and I

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Speaker 1: encourage people to not necessarily do exactly that. But this

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Speaker 1: is a really good moment in your life. Whoever you are,

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Speaker 1: you probably interact with technology, you actually do because you're

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Speaker 1: listening to this, and it's a good moment to readdress

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Speaker 1: the ways that you do it. So this story, we'll

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Speaker 1: just start reading it to you. So there's a little preamble.

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Speaker 1: In November nineteen nineteen, United States President Woodrow Wilson launched

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Speaker 1: mass raids against the entire anarchist movement. The United States

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Speaker 1: police simultaneously arrested thousands of anarchists in many different parts

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Speaker 1: of the country, shutting down their newspapers, organizations, and meeting halls.

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Speaker 1: That part's not fiction, just to interject, that's just the

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Speaker 1: thing that happened. If similar raids were to take place today,

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Speaker 1: they would occur in a technological landscape involving mass surveillance

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Speaker 1: and targeted electronic attacks. Those who survive would also have

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Speaker 1: to adopt different tools. Section one Escape. When the police

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Speaker 1: battering ram hits his door at four eleven am, Jake

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Speaker 1: is in his boxers on the floor playing an emulated

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Speaker 1: side scroller. The adrenaline hits and within seconds he has

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Speaker 1: jammed his bedroom window open, sliding down into the backyard

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Speaker 1: and often a run, his socks instantly soaked in the grass.

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Speaker 1: He hears shouting, but doesn't look back to check if

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Speaker 1: there are pigs looking out his window or chasing him

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Speaker 1: from the side of the house. He jumps the back

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Speaker 1: fence more awkwardly than he imagined, getting a splinter deep

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Speaker 1: in his left hand, but he ignores it and dashes

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Speaker 1: over the roof of the neighbor's shed, trying to remember

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Speaker 1: every detail of the surrounding blocks. In what feels like

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Speaker 1: an instant, he's two blocks away, hiding behind some bushes

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Speaker 1: as a squad car drives by. His breath sounds to

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Speaker 1: him like the loudest thing in the world, and his

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Speaker 1: mind spins as he imagines a neighbor coming out behind him.

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Speaker 1: He's in nothing but boxers and muddy socks, and his

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Speaker 1: hand is dripping blood. Nothing happens. The squad car crawls

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Speaker 1: down another block. Time to move. Vera is almost home

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Speaker 1: from work, listening to music in her headphones when she

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Speaker 1: comes around a bend and sees the corner of a

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Speaker 1: swat outside her punk house. She pivots immediately down another street,

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Speaker 1: casually continuing her walk while pulling out her phone. She

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Speaker 1: knows she should immediately turn it off, but first she

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Speaker 1: texts a group chat house being raided and then turns

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Speaker 1: it off. Maybe that warning will help someone. Many phone

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Speaker 1: batteries remain active even when the device is off. She

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Speaker 1: knows right now, some lazy junior officer could be noticing

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Speaker 1: the GPS or her network connection triangulating her as she

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Speaker 1: moves away. Should she throw it? Should she abruptly stomp

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Speaker 1: on her phone out here in the street. There's a

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Speaker 1: drainage vent coming up. She could toss it in and

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Speaker 1: keep walking via hesitates. Her phone is encrypted, but against

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Speaker 1: everyone's advice, she uses a short password. If they dig

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Speaker 1: it out of the drain, she doesn't know how to

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Speaker 1: pry out the SD card. Stomping on the whole device

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Speaker 1: might draw attention and not even destroy the main memory.

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Speaker 1: Time is of the essence, so she makes a hard

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Speaker 1: choice quickly and tosses the whole thing in the drain.

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Speaker 1: She's just a normal person on a walk, and she

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Speaker 1: keeps walking away vera hears a car rolling up behind

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Speaker 1: her slowly. It takes every ounce of willpower to keep

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Speaker 1: walking normally, not to look back and terror. Maybe she should,

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Speaker 1: Maybe she should just run for it. The car parks

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Speaker 1: behind her, and there's the sounds of a mom unloading

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Speaker 1: young kids. She's not being followed where to now. Julie

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Speaker 1: and Maggie sit at their dining room table. Just want

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Speaker 1: to point out that I'm not only reading this story

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Speaker 1: because it has a character named Maggie in it, but

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Speaker 1: that was a consideration and a bonus. I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: everyone writing in Maggie's, Margaret's and Magpies. Julie and Maggie

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Speaker 1: are sitting at their dining room table, struggling not to

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Speaker 1: reflect panic at each other. Only one news outlet is

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Speaker 1: even reporting the nationwide raids, and there's almost nothing there.

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Speaker 1: Messages saying leave and then delete. This group chat keep

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Speaker 1: popping up for both of them, little spatters of reports

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Speaker 1: on raids and then silenced. A friend who is always

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Speaker 1: too frantic is spamming everyone asking for updates. Then suddenly

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Speaker 1: she's silent. There's an hour of nothing. They trade terse

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Speaker 1: updates with a friend who lives far away. Someone local

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Speaker 1: suddenly appears online, but only to post a meme and

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Speaker 1: a dead channel and then disappear. The same music plays

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Speaker 1: on the same radio stations. The wind blows through the trees,

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Speaker 1: A cousin asks for advice with a preschool situation, totally oblivious.

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Speaker 1: The local news does a puff piece about local business,

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Speaker 1: the neighbors get a pizza delivery, and your favorite podcast

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Speaker 1: is interrupted by advertisements. That's a thing that happens. It's

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Speaker 1: totally in the story. I totally didn't just I added that.

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Speaker 1: I added it right now, here's the ads.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: What ads, Greg, do you think that we should add here?

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Speaker 2: It's probably for Signal, Yeah, and ad for Signal and

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Speaker 2: potatoes and sweet potatoes and wearing a mask. Those would

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Speaker 2: all be good ads I would support.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, this is brought to you by all

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Speaker 1: of those things. I know we'll talk about a little

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Speaker 1: bit more later. But Signal is having a moment right

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Speaker 1: now in the news because of some major OPSEP fails

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Speaker 1: on the part of the government. But it doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: that Signal itself is broken. Everyone. Signal is the current

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Speaker 1: most effective and encrypted thing. Honestly. The fact that our

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Speaker 1: enemies use it is part of the evidence of that.

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Speaker 1: All right, But the story, they're probably not going to

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Speaker 1: come for us. We haven't done anything. Their confused dog

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Speaker 1: is whining with shared nerves. Maggie keeps eyeing the go

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Speaker 1: bag by the door they packed together months ago. That afternoon,

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Speaker 1: Julie had made a show of being a good sport,

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Speaker 1: humoring her need to prep. Now all Maggie can think

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Speaker 1: about is everything they're missing. Julie's passport has just expired.

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Speaker 1: Can they get across the border If only they had

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Speaker 1: done a dry run. They take the dog out on

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Speaker 1: a walk, leaving all devices home, whispering potential plans to

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Speaker 1: one another, trying not to draw attension as a jogger

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Speaker 1: passes them by. When they get home, there's a private

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Speaker 1: message on Instagram from a friend saying they're putting together

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Speaker 1: a legal defense committee. First meeting will be public at

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Speaker 1: a public park. They're inviting some local liberal journalists as shields.

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Speaker 1: Somebody at the local ALLT Weekly says she's writing a story.

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Speaker 1: There's a lawyer coming from a big name liberal thing.

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Speaker 1: The Internet keeps being really slow, doesn't deliver messages, and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly delivers three all at once. Loading a lot

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Speaker 1: of websites just returns errors. They're so sleep deprived of

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Speaker 1: stress that when they finally crash together on the couch,

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Speaker 1: they sleep right through the Defense Committee meeting. A friend

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Speaker 1: knocks loudly on their door and they nearly die of

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Speaker 1: heart attacks. Assuming it's the cops. His report back is terse.

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Speaker 1: Almost no journalists showed. Most of the folks who went

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Speaker 1: have been grabbed. One was driven down off her bike

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Speaker 1: on her way home. An old liberal lawyer went to

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Speaker 1: the county jail with a court order and the cops

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Speaker 1: just laughed and arrested her. He's going underground, and he

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Speaker 1: suggests they do too. But Julie and Maggie have a life.

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Speaker 1: They have jobs at least for now, as they've both

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Speaker 1: called out sick, and they have a house. They're normal now,

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Speaker 1: even law abiding. Burn a few posters, donate a few

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Speaker 1: books to the neighborhood little libraries, to lead a few accounts.

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Speaker 1: Maybe they can pass upstanding citizens. If we leave our

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Speaker 1: shit here and stop paining, we'll lose everything we've built

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Speaker 1: since poverty, plus have to pay some ridiculous fine. If

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Speaker 1: they do get raided, maybe it'll just be a few

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Speaker 1: days in lock up, in and out, just a performance

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Speaker 1: of a crackdown. The lips will get mad about the lawyers. Surely,

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Speaker 1: neither of them has been able to cook since the

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Speaker 1: raids first started, so they drive out together to grab pickup.

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Speaker 1: Waiting for a light, Maggie stares at something on the

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Speaker 1: side of the street and then leaps out of the

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Speaker 1: truck's passenger side door without a word. Julie is frightened

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Speaker 1: at first, then furious, but when she pulls the truck

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Speaker 1: over and heads back to Maggie, she sees her partner

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Speaker 1: kneeling next to a homeless man lying at an odd angle.

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Speaker 1: We don't have our phones. We can't call a paramedic,

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Speaker 1: she reminds Maggie, but then recognition dawns on her. It's

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Speaker 1: one of their friends. Under the mess of blisters and

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Speaker 1: swollen bruises, his eyes are open, staring at nothing. He

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Speaker 1: lived in one of the first punk houses that was rated.

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Speaker 1: He never went to anything besides some hardcore shows. He

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Speaker 1: was just a baker. They don't pick up their meal.

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Speaker 1: They head home, dog go bag some last minute additional ideas,

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Speaker 1: camping gear, encrypted backup drives, medicine, dry food, clothes, blankets, phones,

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Speaker 1: and leftover devices, smashed house key hidden somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: yard for a friend. Maggie looks at her cheap Cassio watch.

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Speaker 1: That's time, we need to go. That's the end of

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Speaker 1: section one, and we're gonna read section two today too,

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Speaker 1: but first we're gonna talk about section one and what

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Speaker 1: should we talk about with it.

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Speaker 2: So one thing that came up for me initially is

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Speaker 2: that I'm not really familiar with the nineteen nineteen raids,

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Speaker 2: and so I was wondering if you could talk a

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Speaker 2: little bit about that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So there is one of the things that

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Speaker 1: about this particular piece that I think kind of stood

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Speaker 1: out to me is like, not necessarily, it's a thought experiment, right,

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Speaker 1: and it's projecting the idea of like what if they

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Speaker 1: came for the anarchists? And I think actually, as we

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Speaker 1: go further into the piece, we'll learn that it's talking

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Speaker 1: about like what if they came for the radicals in general, right,

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Speaker 1: in a big mass roundup that includes anarchists. But there

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Speaker 1: is a historical precedent for specifically coming after the anarchists.

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Speaker 1: The first Red Scare was nineteen nineteen nineteen. I want

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Speaker 1: to say maybe eighteen as well, I'm not certain, And

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Speaker 1: they often get called the Palmer Raids. And I don't

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Speaker 1: have all my notes in front of me, which is

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Speaker 1: terribly embarrassing because I had all the time in the

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Speaker 1: world have my notes in front of me, but I

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Speaker 1: did not. But basically, these were raids that came after

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Speaker 1: primarily an immigrant anarchist group across the country, but especially

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Speaker 1: in York City and specifically Russian anarchists and Russian labor

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Speaker 1: organizing around New York City. And there's all these like

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Speaker 1: great photos you can look up of like, well, there's one,

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Speaker 1: there's this great photo of these like super dapper anarchists

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Speaker 1: hanging out and they're like nice wool coats and nice

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Speaker 1: hats and stuff, waiting for deportation. Fashion is probably not

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Speaker 1: the most important thing when you look at that particular photo,

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Speaker 1: but they do have nice fashion.

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Speaker 2: That's really cool. Not the raids, but the fashion. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's good context because yeah, I think that this piece

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Speaker 2: tries to open with that and contextualize I believe also,

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Speaker 2: you know, international policing was invented to hunt down anarchists

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Speaker 2: around the world, so yep, But nowadays do we really

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Speaker 2: feel that this is sort of like, like our anarchists

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Speaker 2: a threat in this same way that they were in

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Speaker 2: nineteen nineteen.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of less about whether or not we

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Speaker 1: are a threat and whether or not we're perceived as

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Speaker 1: a threat. And a few years ago, like last Trump ter,

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Speaker 1: he absolutely was mentioning anarchists by name, although kind of

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Speaker 1: in that catch all way of like these anarchists and antifa,

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Speaker 1: you know, without any like the whole thing that the

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Speaker 1: government is always trying to do and everyone's always trying

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Speaker 1: to do is sort of pretend like we're not actually

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Speaker 1: a specific ideological branch of socialism. It's just a catch

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Speaker 1: all word like terrorist or whatever.

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Speaker 2: And why was I going on about that?

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Speaker 1: Mostly because it bugs me, But like, I think it's

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Speaker 1: completely possible that they would come for like Antifa, I

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Speaker 1: think personally, a much more realistic threat model is what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing now, which is coming after organizers, coming after

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Speaker 1: people who are specifically related to specific protest movements, which

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Speaker 1: of course very much includes an awful lot of people

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Speaker 1: that we know and care about who may be anarchists.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that's fair, But.

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Speaker 1: Okay, what else? Okay, so we've got the context. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So in the first scene.

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Speaker 2: The person jumps out the window with no shoes and

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Speaker 2: no pants and no shirt, and it got me thinking

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Speaker 2: sort of around how when we do preparedness, we're usually

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Speaker 2: prepared for a disaster, and I think of it, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, one of the things that I keep in

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Speaker 2: my bedroom is a fire extinguisher because I figure for

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Speaker 2: most scenarios, a fire extinguisher is going to be useful.

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Speaker 2: But like in this case, maybe I need a pair

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Speaker 2: of slippers by my bed, which in the if I'm

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Speaker 2: woken up in the middle of the night, do I

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Speaker 2: know where my shoes are? Or like do I have

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Speaker 2: the right pants on? Definitely something to consider. I think

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Speaker 2: if you're preparing with this particular threat model, and then like,

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Speaker 2: you know, how how do we think about go bags

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Speaker 2: a little bit differently? And you know, I think most

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Speaker 2: of the time when we do go bags, it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: you're going to be in a vehicle, You're going to

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Speaker 2: be going to a shelter. But how does this change

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Speaker 2: with this particular threat model.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, like, one of the things that's nice

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Speaker 1: about go bags is that they theoretically are useful for

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Speaker 1: all kinds of situations. And like, most of the time,

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Speaker 1: for most people and in general, I think, including right now,

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Speaker 1: the primary purpose of a go bag is for disaster stuff.

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Speaker 1: Right A wildfire is still a more realistic threat model

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Speaker 1: for most people, including most people probably listening to this,

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Speaker 1: or like earthquakes or I don't know, you just like

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Speaker 1: really are antsy and want to get out of town

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Speaker 1: or whatever, or like your friend calls you frantic and

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Speaker 1: needs your help and they are two states away and

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Speaker 1: they're like, or you need to get here now, please come,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, well, fortunately, everything I need to sleep

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Speaker 1: in my car is in the bag right here, plus

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Speaker 1: my car, you know, so you can throw it into

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Speaker 1: your car and get going. But I do think it's

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Speaker 1: kind of interesting to think about this particular threat model

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Speaker 1: with go bags and preparedness, of the idea of kind

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Speaker 1: of a more urban camping model, which is actually I

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Speaker 1: mean it's literally my own background as a former travel

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Speaker 1: kid or whatever, you know. I slept on a lot

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Speaker 1: of rooftops and things like that. The idea of traveling

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Speaker 1: with a tent was completely nonsensical to me, because I

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Speaker 1: was like, tent, you put up a tent, they know

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Speaker 1: where you are, you know, because I was just always

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Speaker 1: sleeping illegally in different places, and so like, the sleeping

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Speaker 1: bag was the only object that really.

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Speaker 2: Mattered to me out of all of that.

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Speaker 1: Maybe a tarp if it's going to be really wet,

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Speaker 1: but I wouldn't even string up the tarp. I would

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Speaker 1: just tacco in it. I'm not recommending this. I was

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Speaker 1: like twenty years old, but like, reading this particular piece

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Speaker 1: has made me think more about threat models where you're like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well I gotta go and I might need to sleep

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Speaker 1: rough for a couple nights in different places. You know,

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Speaker 1: what do I need for that. The shoe thing is

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Speaker 1: really interesting to me. I wear boots, and so like

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Speaker 1: I'm not throwing on my boots to run away or whatever,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, maybe my crocs, you know, maybe

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Speaker 1: that's the move or maybe like kind of slip on

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Speaker 1: running shoes or whatever. But something that you brought up

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Speaker 1: when we were talking about this beforehand was the kind

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Speaker 1: of like, well, it's not like crazy realistic to get

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Speaker 1: out a window and out in the backyard during a

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Speaker 1: house right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I feel like in house rates, they

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Speaker 2: surround the house and they try to, you know, shock

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Speaker 2: you into compliance. So yeah, this person seems like they're

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Speaker 2: very good at parkore, which is, you know, something I

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Speaker 2: wish I was more limber for.

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Speaker 1: I get the impression that this particular character is a

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Speaker 1: graph kid and it's okay, yeah, a little bit used

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Speaker 1: to I'm going to move very quickly and stealthily and like.

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Speaker 1: And I actually wonder because when I watch videos of

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Speaker 1: house raids, because I have a normal person's brain and

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Speaker 1: do normal hobbies, I don't think they always surround the house.

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Speaker 1: I think that if they're doing like the full swat

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Speaker 1: or whatever, they might, right, But I don't know, And

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Speaker 1: so I think that there is a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a like, I mean, a lot of this is just

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Speaker 1: pure luck, right this character is playing emulated side scrolling

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Speaker 1: games at four fourteen am or whatever it is. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I do like thinking this like sort

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Speaker 1: of different threat model as relates to our go bags.

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Speaker 1: But I would actually say with this piece in general, right,

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Speaker 1: this is less about we need to change our threat

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Speaker 1: model to include this as what we're doing now, and

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Speaker 1: more like thinking about, well, this might come up, you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about it more when we get into the

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Speaker 1: other sections about the different methods of communication and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But it's like, it's not stuff that we should start

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Speaker 1: doing now. Like I don't think that I'm gonna have

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Speaker 1: to start sleeping with clothes on. I'd hate to start

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Speaker 1: sleeping with clothes on. That's really just the main problem

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: Makes total sense.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, all right, and then okay, there was another

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Speaker 1: thing that I was thinking about. Right at the very end,

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Speaker 1: they're like, I'm and he puts on. I think it's

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Speaker 1: a I don't remember which character it is. Someone has

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Speaker 1: their Cassio watch, and specifically I think they're flagging that

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Speaker 1: it is a like full function non smart watch. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was kind of clever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I prefer calculator risk launch if I

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Speaker 2: have to pick.

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Speaker 1: But wait, do you really have a calculator wristwatch?

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Speaker 2: I don't. I'm posing right now, but I think it

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00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,200
Speaker 2: is useful just to think of, like, okay, how can

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Speaker 2: I tell time without my cell phone? And I think,

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Speaker 2: like the cell phone does occupy a very large space.

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Speaker 2: And I think as we're thinking about and well, we

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Speaker 2: can go into sort of the phone and like being

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Speaker 2: attached to your phone. But you know, it's like do

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Speaker 2: you have a map in your car? Like I've thought

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Speaker 2: about getting sort of a a road out list, for example,

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Speaker 2: just in case, like I don't have GPS service because

399
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Speaker 2: and also I've been in situations where GPS has thrown

400
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Speaker 2: me on the road that is completely covered in snow,

401
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,000
Speaker 2: and I'm like, uh oh, maybe I need to know

402
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Speaker 2: how to get out of here.

403
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Speaker 1: You know, I keep a road out list in my vehicle.

404
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Speaker 1: I actually use it as my example whenever I watch

405
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Speaker 1: because again I have normal person hobbies. Whenever I watch

406
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Speaker 1: like right wing people's vehicle bug out vehicle prep stuff

407
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: on YouTube, which to be clear, I don't look for

408
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Speaker 1: the right wingers, is just to an overwhelming majority of

409
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Speaker 1: the people who are like, check out my truck, it's

410
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Speaker 1: full of stuff, are a right of center and they

411
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Speaker 1: all like have these like back of seat mounted AR

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Speaker 1: fifteen mounts to put their AR fifteen on the back

413
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Speaker 1: of their seat, And I'm like, that's the pocket that

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Speaker 1: the at list goes in. Think in your life about

415
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Speaker 1: the number of times you've needed an atlass versus the

416
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Speaker 1: number of times that you've needed not only an AR fifteen,

417
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Speaker 1: but a truck AR fifteen ready for rapid deployment. Like

418
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: that's a that's a non thing as far as I

419
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Speaker 1: can tell. Like, if you are going to be rapidly

420
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Speaker 1: using your rifle in a vehicle, you're in a war

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Speaker 1: and you're not the driver. So yeah. Whenever I see those,

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00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,719
Speaker 1: I always am like the map pocket. You covered the

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00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: map pocket. Oh yeah, get a road.

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Speaker 2: Outlyss This podcast is brought to you by road Outlasses.

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Speaker 1: And Rand McNally or whatever.

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00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, but yeah, I think we can go into

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Speaker 2: the section. So they freeting the character's name, but they

428
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Speaker 2: see the houses being grated, and they automatically realize that, like,

429
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Speaker 2: oh wait, I'm carrying a tracking device on me, And

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Speaker 2: then there's this tension within the piece around what should

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Speaker 2: I do with this? So they first talk about the

432
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: phone being encrypted but using a short password, which the

433
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 2: good advice is use an alphanumeric password that is sufficiently long.

434
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 2: Now for our phones, you mostly open it one handedly.

435
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: You probably are doing something else, and like most of us,

436
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 2: probably either use face unlock. There's fingerprint idea unlock, which

437
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,160
Speaker 2: those are pretty secure except for if somebody is physically

438
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: takes your face or your finger inputs it on there.

439
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: Also, I believe that the police are allowed to force

440
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: you into biometric unlocking a phone, whereas they're not allowed

441
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,239
Speaker 1: to well, they're like theoretically not supposed to force you

442
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: into passwords.

443
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I mean I think the reality here is

444
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 2: that most people probably have like a four digit pass

445
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: code for their phone, and then the piece also mentions

446
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 2: an SD card I'm unaware of. I think there's like

447
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,640
Speaker 2: four phones that are currently on the market that have

448
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: SD cards. Most of the mainline phones don't, and so

449
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 2: the data is on the phone. It is not removable.

450
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 2: You can't remove the battery of a phone. Even when

451
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: a phone is it off, it can be tracked. These

452
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,360
Speaker 2: are just facts. So one thing and kind of going

453
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:32,920
Speaker 2: back to the go bags and like I think having

454
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 2: a Faraday bag is something that would be useful as

455
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 2: well for people. Is like, if you want your phone

456
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 2: to be more off or at least not traceable, being

457
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 2: able to just throw it into a bag could help

458
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 2: it at least not contact other radios. But there's also

459
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 2: operating systems, so these are all Android based. You know,

460
00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,399
Speaker 2: iOS is what it is. And you know, there is

461
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 2: questions of whether or not the standard encryption algorithms have

462
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 2: backdoors the police can access. But there is a an

463
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: OS called graphinos that is commonly recommended, but it does

464
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: like it does de Google you, So if that is

465
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,720
Speaker 2: what you're trying to do, you're trying to get away

466
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: from Gmail and all that you will get there, and

467
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 2: Graphios only runs on the latest Google hardware, like the

468
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 2: Pixel line of phones, just because they want to keep

469
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 2: it very up to date and not have to support

470
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 2: a ton of phones. So it's like the three latest

471
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: phones or something like that. So if you are sufficiently

472
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,679
Speaker 2: paranoid and you want to play around with that this

473
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 2: kind of stuff, I recommend that. But there's also other ones,

474
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: like there's linear jos, which is another alternative OS for

475
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 2: Android phones that you can you can choose not to

476
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: download Google apps or not, and then calyx Os, which

477
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 2: is another project that's doing similar goals.

478
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: So I think it's interesting with phone security because like,

479
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 1: none of the things that you're talking about, to my understanding,

480
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: none of those stop the basic your phone is a

481
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: tracking device thing, right, Like theoretically, all they're capable of

482
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: doing is like limiting bad actors from accessing the data

483
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: on your phone. Is that a fair way to put it?

484
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I would say that, you know, data encryption

485
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,240
Speaker 2: in general is really good for maybe not always, like oh,

486
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: I'm trying to avoid law enforcement, but if my phone

487
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: is stolen, I don't want my credit card or my

488
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,720
Speaker 2: files in the hands of somebody who could use it, right,

489
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 2: And I think like there was a piece I was

490
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: reading that was related to phone security that suggested treat

491
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 2: your phone like encrypted landline and only connect to it

492
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 2: over Wi Fi not cell phone networks. Then that particular

493
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 2: device would never get that triangulation data from the cell networks,

494
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 2: which is interesting, and then it would have you have

495
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: signal on that phone, and then it just never leaves

496
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 2: your house and then it's never on your person. But again,

497
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: I think that that that is a perfect scenario when

498
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 2: most of us are gonna we like the convenience of

499
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 2: how itself phone. You would like to be able to

500
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: look up things and talk to our friends.

501
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: So I also think it's a different threat model. Like

502
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: I think that's the threat model of like which many

503
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: maybe you dear listener, in the current context, are a

504
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: person who does valiant crime, let's say, right, and in

505
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: which case absolutely, but like, and I recognize the point

506
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,880
Speaker 1: of like, the more people have secure practices, the more

507
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: that they can't pick people out. Is like, ah, this

508
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: person probably does crime because they do this thing. But

509
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 1: I would say that like for most people, I think

510
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: in the current threat model, like the odds of me

511
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: needing to take a call from my sick family member

512
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: while I'm out for twelve hours is like, that's more

513
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: important to me than like that my cell phone hasn't

514
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: pinged off of any towers recently in the average scenario.

515
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: And so, and I think that that's what's interesting about

516
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 1: this particular thought experiment piece is that it's presenting a like, well,

517
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,239
Speaker 1: all of that shit's out the window. And if all

518
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: of that stuff's out the window, then you're just like

519
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 1: in a totally new terrain. And so I think that

520
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 1: there's I don't know's it's complicated, but I really do

521
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 1: like that. I like that they point out that they're like, Okay,

522
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: I'm going to throw my phone down the sewer now

523
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: and all of that.

524
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 2: Which I don't think is a bad idea if that

525
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,720
Speaker 2: is what you're paranoid about. I didn't have sort of

526
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: an issue with that exactly. Yeah, But I do think

527
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 2: sort of understanding the limits of the technology you're carrying

528
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,600
Speaker 2: on you, I think is important and totally be aware

529
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: when you are bringing a listening device to somewhere.

530
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's just a place that just keeps

531
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: track of everything you do. Although all cars from like

532
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 1: what twenty fourteen onwards also do that, but we could

533
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that be a different point. Yeah anyway,

534
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 1: all right, Well, is that I forget section one? You

535
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: want to start on section two?

536
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: Yeaht sweet.

537
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: Section two resources. Jake has been tagging and dumpster diving

538
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: for years, so he knows his neighborhood pretty well. Just

539
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: as he's noticed what gets cleaned and what does not,

540
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: he's noticed what gets moved and what does not, what

541
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: gets paid attention to and what does not. There's a

542
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: moss covered rock in a local park that never gets moved,

543
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: no one even goes near it. There's a roof of

544
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: an abandoned building littered with garbage. Long ago, Jake took

545
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: two plastic bottles and sealed each inside a ziploc bag

546
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: with a small amount of cash and two USBs each.

547
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: Then he buried one bottle in the dirt underneath the rock,

548
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: and taped another bottle underneath a non functioning vent on

549
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: the roof of an abandoned building. In each bottle, one

550
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: USB contains an encrypted key pass x database with a

551
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: distinct log in information of every online accounty has, as

552
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: well as a vera crypt encrypted folder with various files.

553
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 1: He wants to make sure he never lost, scans of

554
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: his IDs, photos of friends, including a GPG key pair.

555
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 1: He has encrypted both with a passphrase of five randomly

556
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 1: chosen dictionary words committed to memory, veritable sasquatch, humdinger, locality peeps.

557
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 1: He has practiced this every night for weeks, building all

558
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: kinds of associations and mnemonics. Unencrypted on the drives are

559
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 1: executable files to install keypassx vera crypt and GPG on

560
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: any new computer. On the other USB is a full

561
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: install of the TAILS operating system. Jake knows he looks

562
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: a mess in his boxers and muddy socks, but he

563
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: gets to the park and digs up the bottle without

564
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: a squad car seeing him or some vigilante neighbor raising

565
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: a fuss. The twenty and two tens inside will have

566
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: to be enough. Luckily, there's a small houseless encampment near by,

567
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: and an old lady is willing to part with a

568
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 1: sweater for ten. A free box happens to have a

569
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: two large pair of sneakers. He desperately tries to make

570
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: his boxers look like shorts and walks to a thrift store,

571
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: quickly emerging with a backpack, a T shirt, a baseball cap,

572
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,680
Speaker 1: and a pair of pants. A visit to a corner

573
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: store bathroom with a razor and hair dye, and his

574
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: appearance is at least a little different. He buys a

575
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 1: cheap first aid kit for the splinter in his hand.

576
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: With his cash broken into change, he can catch a

577
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: bus across town. When Jake gets near the first house

578
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: of comrades, not only are the cops there, but his

579
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,760
Speaker 1: friends are still in their underwear and hog tied. On

580
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 1: the lawn. A cop is violently molesting a friend of

581
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: his under the pretense of a search, while others laugh.

582
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: Jake keeps moving. At the second house, there are no

583
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: squad cars, but the front door is visibly missing. Jake

584
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: notices someone sitting in an unmarked car across the street.

585
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: He keeps walking. The third house he tries belongs to

586
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: a largely a political friend. It's a struggle to try

587
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 1: and get him not to proclaim surprise loudly on the

588
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 1: front porch and not to talk near devices. I just

589
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: need to borrow a couple hundred men. Then I'll be

590
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,640
Speaker 1: out of your hair. I never saw you, you never

591
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: saw me. Please, Jake leaves with a hundred a filled

592
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: water bottle, a better hoodie, a better pair of shoes

593
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:36,800
Speaker 1: with dry socks, and a dusty old laptop. It's not

594
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,720
Speaker 1: enough bus fare to get to the border. He needs

595
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: a sleeping bag, but Ori Ei has been implementing stronger

596
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,080
Speaker 1: anti theft policies, and the longer he focks around town,

597
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: the more likely he is to get stopped. He's terrified

598
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: of facial recognition and tracking software on the buses, and

599
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: his thrift store baseball cap isn't going to protect him forever.

600
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: He scopes out the city bust terminal from some distance,

601
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: but it looks like this one checks id and there's

602
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: a cop wandering around. Instead, he catches a city bus

603
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: out to a distant suburb on the edge of rural

604
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: two lane roads, trying to hitch Hopefully the cops out

605
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: here aren't actively looking for him and won't harass a hitchhiker.

606
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: A state patrol car passes him without incident. He has

607
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,919
Speaker 1: no success for hours, and it starts to grow dark,

608
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: so it's back to the city. Worried about cash. In

609
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: the middle of the night, he climbs the roof of

610
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,760
Speaker 1: his second stash, but it's missing, probably the tape eroded

611
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,879
Speaker 1: months ago and it fell off. Hope the person who

612
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: found it could use the cash if they opened one

613
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 1: of the USB's it would just prove cryptic. No way

614
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: to ever learn what was encrypted. It's a cold night,

615
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: sleeping rough without a sleeping bag, and in the morning,

616
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 1: Jake takes refuge in the back of a cafe where

617
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: he still has enough cash for a warm drink. He

618
00:34:57,520 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 1: takes out the dusty old laptop from his friend, the

619
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: Tails USB, booting it and accessing the Internet over tour.

620
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: The connection to the Tour network has trouble, so he

621
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,880
Speaker 1: chooses in figure connection and selects different bridges until he

622
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: finds one that works. A few anarchist counter info sites

623
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: are reporting the raids, but a surprising number of sites

624
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 1: are down entirely. Local news says almost nothing besides statust blather.

625
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: Social media is trash with speculation from those least informed.

626
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,839
Speaker 1: Foreign no blogs and indie media sites have the most

627
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: relevant reporting. Signal is down something about centralized architecture. Comments

628
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: speculate about international law, but it doesn't matter right now.

629
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 1: Rise Up allegedly melted their servers with thermite during a raid,

630
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: and we're all arrested. Proton Mail has apparently been collaborating

631
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: injecting spyware onto user's devices, and some people are surprised

632
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: by this wire is temporary unavailable. A few people leave

633
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,760
Speaker 1: links urging people to use various apps or tools Jake's

634
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: never heard of. But do you know what they should use?

635
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: Greg for all of their secure communication? They should use

636
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: whatever's advertised next, and we're back. Other people debate the

637
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: technical merits, but he has a hard time understanding. One

638
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: new app is blowing up pretty quickly. Lots of people

639
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,399
Speaker 1: attest to it being good, but this seems mostly based

640
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: on them finding it easy to use. One person says

641
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: they are still trying to use a smartphone, but then

642
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: goes quiet. One account that was quiet for a while

643
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,760
Speaker 1: starts speaking differently. In the comments section on a formally

644
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: obscure site, someone says this is big C. I'm free.

645
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: A group of US are forming up at a location.

646
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 1: Contact me through a secure channel. Jake knows that this

647
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,959
Speaker 1: is Cookie, a local organizer. After a little struggle, Jake

648
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 1: manages to get the most popular new encrypted communication apps

649
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 1: temporarily installed on his tails instance. He joins one of

650
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: the public channels that some comments encouraged using It's basically

651
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: like telegram or discord, a flood of posting and arguing.

652
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: Folks who survive the raids using these new accounts try

653
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 1: to imply who they are without saying it openly. It's

654
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,000
Speaker 1: an amateur hour shit show of oblique flailing. Remember that

655
00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:38,880
Speaker 1: one time we did that one thing, I was the

656
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: one that woked green. Turns out one of the worst

657
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 1: assholes in the scene was still free, and he is

658
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: using the opportunity to crow even when the crewed only

659
00:37:49,280 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: you would know x games imply an account as a

660
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 1: given Comrade Jake knows that such details could simply be

661
00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: copy pasted from a compromised device via some man in

662
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: the middle. Attack where the cops sit between two parties,

663
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: relaying their messages back and forth as if they're the

664
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: other person. There is not enough to trust in an

665
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: Internet post. To meet up, Vera walks immediately to the

666
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 1: house of her old friend Cat. She scopes the front

667
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: from down the street, notices Kat Subaru is missing, and

668
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: makes her way in through the backyard. Vera has held

669
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 1: on to a spare key for years, but their friendship

670
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: is almost entirely offline. They don't even bring devices when

671
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: they hang out. As far as the outside world knows,

672
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 1: Cat is just another park ranger doing ecological restoration. Ten

673
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: years ago, they burn down a condo together. Vera cries

674
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:45,000
Speaker 1: and trembles the second she closes the back door behind her,

675
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: falling into a fetal position. Cat's house is pristine, beautiful, safe.

676
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 1: Vera rocks back and forth, trying to remember breathing exercises.

677
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 1: Has her heart always been as loud? Is she dying?

678
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 1: After an eternity? She gets up and starts doing stretches

679
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 1: and exercises. She pictures herself punching through the faces of

680
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: the cops. Back at her house, she knows she needs

681
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: to work out the adrenaline. Cat's house is like a

682
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: warm security blanket. Everything is just right. Vera lies on

683
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: the floor of the living room for hours, not moving,

684
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: listening way too attentively to the sounds of cars going by.

685
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,839
Speaker 1: Is Cat even in town? Should she make something from

686
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,840
Speaker 1: her food in the pantry. The slow crunching sound of

687
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 1: Kat's subreu coming to rest in the driveway is an

688
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: immense relief. Kat is surprised about the raids, but she

689
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: grasps the severity, hugs Vera and tries to throw lentils

690
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: and veggies in an instapot while listening and asking questions.

691
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 1: While dinner cooks, Cat brings out an old laptop she

692
00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: rarely uses, and they check the major news sights together,

693
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: careful not to enter search terms or anything that might flag.

694
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: In some sense, it's a relief to learn the raids

695
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: were beyond just Vera's house. They're not targeted at Vera specifically,

696
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: but no one seems to have been released yet, so

697
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 1: it's clearly not safe to leave. Kat makes up a

698
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: futon for Vera in the basement. Of course, you can

699
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: stay the night. You can stay as long as you need.

700
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 1: Vera takes off her earrings and places them carefully beside

701
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:28,320
Speaker 1: her work bag. In each earring is a tiny sliver

702
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: of a USB stick. Each of them is just like

703
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: Jake's encrypted KEYPASSX database, encrypted filesystem, GPG keys, installation executables

704
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: for Vera, crypt and KEYPASSX. In the morning, Vera will

705
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: investigate what can be done with Kat's laptop. Julie and

706
00:40:49,680 --> 00:40:53,200
Speaker 1: Maggie make three stops before heading out of town, first

707
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,960
Speaker 1: at Julie's bank, where she successfully empties most of her

708
00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: account into five thousand in cash, But at Maggie's bank,

709
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,439
Speaker 1: the teller disappears for a long while and doesn't come back.

710
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: You know what, never mind, I'll go to a different bank,

711
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: Maggie says to another teller, using her best imitation Karen voice.

712
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: They drive off heads on a swivel for cop cars. Finally,

713
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,919
Speaker 1: they slip a note into a friend's mailbox explaining where

714
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: to find their house key and some instructions for their lease.

715
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,560
Speaker 1: They collect every credit or debit card they have and

716
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:31,880
Speaker 1: tape them together under a seat, never to be used again.

717
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: They take off quickly back roads to avoid license plate

718
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: readers than long country roads. It's hard to navigate without

719
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,840
Speaker 1: their phones. Each of them picks a personality type and

720
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 1: fashion style that signals no political or subcultural allegiance. They

721
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,759
Speaker 1: make up a backstory about how their friends and try

722
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: to bicker in convenience stores to avoid looking queer. They

723
00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: pick up a bumper sticker they'd otherwise be livid at

724
00:41:59,280 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 1: and slap it on. At a camp site two hundred

725
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: miles away, they go through all their remaining belongings. They

726
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: have a tarp, a tent, two sleeping bags, a gallon

727
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,879
Speaker 1: jug of water, a sawyer microfiltration water purifier, a five

728
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 1: gallon bucket of rice and beans, a camp stove, a

729
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: couple pads, trashy books for boredom. They end up buying

730
00:42:23,239 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: basic comforts like folding chairs with their cash reserves. It's

731
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: just a camping trip until it isn't. They go on

732
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: a hike with their dog and talk about communities they

733
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 1: can flee to a land defense occupation that became permanent,

734
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,120
Speaker 1: a log cabin squat built deep off of any path

735
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: on federal land. A friend's organic farm with some partially

736
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: abandoned yurts. They discuss the pros and cons of various

737
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 1: cults they know. In the end, they drive to the

738
00:42:54,280 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: furthest option, the organic farm. The drive is long on

739
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: a thin, winding back road. They stack up behind a

740
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,240
Speaker 1: long line of cars. Local vigilantes are performing an inspection

741
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: to check for antifa. A middle aged white lady with

742
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,919
Speaker 1: an ar waves them through cheerily. Stay safe out there.

743
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: The next town has a small rally for democracy along

744
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: the central drag. Besides in Arby's, a couple dozen liberals

745
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 1: and folding chairs hold cardboard placards making puns about the

746
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: suspension of a cable news channel. At a gas station,

747
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 1: Julie overhears two men confidently talking about the investment opportunities

748
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: in real estate being opened up as all the cockroaches

749
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: are removed. One night, they sleep in their car in

750
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,240
Speaker 1: a Walmart parking lot on the advice of a friendly

751
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,520
Speaker 1: night auditor. At a cheap motel, new regulations, I can't

752
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: take a cash deposit, and there's this thing I got

753
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: to enter your IDs into that wires them nationally. When

754
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: they finally arrive at the farm and are allowed the gate,

755
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,759
Speaker 1: there are already fifteen other people there, extended family of

756
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: the owning couple, plus a couple of woofer hippies, and

757
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: two coteries of obvious radicals who are cagey and cold

758
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 1: to anyone they don't know. Everyone is antsy, different groups

759
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 1: cook different food, panicked envy flickers in some eyes. Two

760
00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: weeks in and Julie keeps to herself. Maggie spends her

761
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: time trying to suck up to the owners and befriends

762
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,720
Speaker 1: an artistic nerd with one of the other radical groups,

763
00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 1: an old, balding white dude, and a black hoodie keeps

764
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: snapping at their dog. A trip into town for balk

765
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: food goes badly after the nerd insists on wearing a

766
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: mask and a confrontation breaks out with a local. A

767
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 1: backed up toilet in the farmhouse makes the owner's dour

768
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: for a couple of days. One night, the situation boils

769
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 1: over and folks start openly talking about the raids. There's

770
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: fury over who has a device and who can be

771
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 1: trusted to have a device, who is putting everyone else

772
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 1: in danger, who has a right to be here, who

773
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:07,680
Speaker 1: has a right to anything? After someone brings up land back,

774
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 1: someone else screams, who do you think you're fooling? Who

775
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: are your people exactly? You're not indigenous, You're as white

776
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:18,600
Speaker 1: as me, and an awkward physical fight breaks out. The

777
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: next morning, there are immigration police visible in the distance

778
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,959
Speaker 1: at the neighboring farm. One of the hippies finds three

779
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 1: young girls hiding down by the river and rushes them

780
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: into one of the plastic yurts everyone else is hiding in.

781
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: Dogs bark in the distance. Julie joins the couple that

782
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,919
Speaker 1: owns the farm and meeting the immigration agents. Her dog

783
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: barks at theirs and they put them away. The immigration

784
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: agents are some of the newly deputized conspiracy heads that

785
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 1: barely have any training, and Julie is able to find

786
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: common cultural ground with them, ranting about how genetically modified

787
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 1: organisms or poisoning the land, leaning hard into the persona

788
00:45:56,360 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: she's studiously built on the road. The wannabe Jeni side

789
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: airs laugh at her jokes and leave, waving back to her.

790
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 1: The girl's white uncle was allowed to remain a nasty

791
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: gash across his forehead. The rest of the family is

792
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: being taken to one of the deportation camps, where people

793
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,800
Speaker 1: die of dehydration. He's profoundly grateful for the rescue of

794
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: his nieces. Over the next month, the adjacent farms begin

795
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: to merge. A dugout hiding spot becomes a tunnel network.

796
00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,799
Speaker 1: Maybe it'll suffice to hide folks if CoP's return. Some

797
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 1: new folks arrive fleeing other things. Tensions break down, relationships

798
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:42,240
Speaker 1: begin to form across the groups. One of the quieter

799
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: members starts opening up giving lectures on centropic agriculture, and

800
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: an array of projects rapidly consume all the spare land

801
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: across the farms. As people get busy developing personal domains

802
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 1: and projects to be invested in the overall vibe improves dramatically.

803
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: Food gets people become more open about what devices they

804
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:06,359
Speaker 1: held onto, but it doesn't matter as much because all

805
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 1: of the old Internet is gone. A few specific corporate

806
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:14,120
Speaker 1: sites remain accessible whitelisted by telecoms for the sake of commerce,

807
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,200
Speaker 1: but almost everything else is gone. You can get Amazon

808
00:47:18,239 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 1: deliveries and send Gmail, but it's impossible to reach Wikipedia,

809
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: much less Athens, indie media, or any no blogs. The

810
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 1: farm establishes a consensus on how devices are to be used.

811
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: The owners maintain all of their devices in the farmhouse,

812
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 1: air gapped from everyone else. News stories and everything else

813
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,880
Speaker 1: are downloaded to a USB by one person for an

814
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: hour every day, then passed around the three laptops everyone

815
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 1: else shares. There's one burner cell phone for the whole farm,

816
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: bought with cash at one of the last walmarts where

817
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 1: that is possible. It's kept turned off and wrapped in

818
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 1: plastic bags under a rock five miles away along the

819
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:03,400
Speaker 1: side of the road. It's for emergence and strictly overseen usage.

820
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: No one will put it simcart in or turn it

821
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:11,400
Speaker 1: on near the farm or its stash location. Having swapped

822
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: out plates and tags, Julie and Maggie occasionally drive into

823
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,399
Speaker 1: the local town. They sit behind a cafe in their

824
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: truck while it's closed at night, and tap into the

825
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,520
Speaker 1: still active Wi Fi with their laptop running. Tails signal

826
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: is long gone. Tour is totally inaccessible, even using the

827
00:48:28,239 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: latest smuggled bridges on the plane Internet. They've managed to

828
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: register two Gmail accounts using the farm's collective burner phone.

829
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: How can they find other comrades? How can they talk

830
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:40,960
Speaker 1: with them?

831
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 2: Well, if you want to.

832
00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: Know, you're going to have to wait till next Sunday.

833
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: But what you don't have to wait for is me

834
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 1: and Greg talking about this chunk. Okay, and so section

835
00:48:54,440 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: two that we just listened to, so much more happened,

836
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: and Okay. The first thing I want to say, just

837
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: sort of flag. There's a piece where they're like, oh,

838
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: the autistic nerd and I'm like, okay, we've all met that,

839
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: or maybe we are that or whatever, and then it

840
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: was like ah, then they wore their mask to the

841
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: store and refused to not And I just want to

842
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:19,040
Speaker 1: like the flag that I'm like and could have been

843
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: phrased a little differently, making the autistic character be the

844
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,879
Speaker 1: one who does that. I don't know whatever, Maybe that's

845
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,080
Speaker 1: me being to twitter brained about it, and I don't

846
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: know the I have no idea about the neurodivergence or

847
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,360
Speaker 1: non neurodiversions of the author of this piece.

848
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.

849
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: Okay, I have a bunch of questions about this part.

850
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: And this is the kind of the part where I'm like,

851
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 1: that's part of why I brought you on.

852
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: I think I'm going to be a US sped drive

853
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: kingpin now and that's what I'm investing in. So it's

854
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: going to be after the raids, We'll all need lots

855
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 2: of USB drives.

856
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: I know. And it's interesting because're gonna need lots of

857
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: mostly small USB drives, small USB drive I think we're

858
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: gonna need a couple big ones to have lots of

859
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: legally purchased media on. Yeah, and okay, So there's a

860
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 1: bunch of different programs they talk about. They talk about

861
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: key pass X, they talk about via crypt, they talk

862
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 1: about GPG, and they talk about tour where.

863
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: Do you want to start well? And they also talk

864
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:24,399
Speaker 2: about tails, which is just we can go through. Why

865
00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: don't we talk about what each of these things are

866
00:50:26,239 --> 00:50:29,440
Speaker 2: just for the uninitiated, So key pass X, which is

867
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 2: to be clear, is defunct now thanks for putting that out.

868
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:35,200
Speaker 2: Key pass X has turned into a new project, key

869
00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: pass XC, so if you're looking around for it, it's

870
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 2: now called that. And so that is generally a password manager,

871
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 2: and so I strongly recommend that anybody listening to this

872
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 2: start using a password manager. Use a different password for

873
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,080
Speaker 2: every single one of your accounts. And this is not

874
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: advice as a radical, This is a device as a

875
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,399
Speaker 2: person who uses computers, if one of your accounts gets

876
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 2: popped and you use the same passwords for everything, all

877
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 2: your accounts are popped, and also use Tube factor authentics. Okay,

878
00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:05,600
Speaker 2: speel over, but keep AXC is an encrypted database of

879
00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 2: all of your passwords. So you use one big password

880
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 2: that you hopefully memorize, and then you never have to

881
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 2: remember your other passwords. Now there's some advantage to this.

882
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,000
Speaker 2: From another perspective is like you don't really know your passwords,

883
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,160
Speaker 2: so if like somebody were to ask you, hey, what's

884
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 2: your email password, You're like, I don't know, and you

885
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 2: can legitimately say that you don't know. But I think

886
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: it's a good practice to use a password manager. So

887
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,600
Speaker 2: that's what keyp pass x or keep assexc is. Vericrypt

888
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:39,360
Speaker 2: is an application that is used to encrypt files or drives,

889
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 2: and so if you wanted to encrypt like a large

890
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 2: piece of something, you would use varicrypt and be able

891
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 2: to decrypt it like that. GPG is another way to

892
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 2: encrypt messages or files that the emphasis is on asymmetric encryption,

893
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: which I will go with a little nerd moment. In

894
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 2: asymmetric encryption, you have a public key and a private key.

895
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 2: You keep private key to yourself and you're able to

896
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 2: share your public key out to anybody and then they

897
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,400
Speaker 2: somebody else will use your public key to encrypt something

898
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:12,919
Speaker 2: intended for you. Now, one of the most common ways

899
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 2: that this is used is through email. There's been applications

900
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 2: in the past, like a nigmail to make this more

901
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 2: easy for people. But just know that GPG is used

902
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: for encrypting files or messages and that sort of thing.

903
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 2: But it's quite manual. It's a process where you have

904
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 2: to set up your keys, you have to set up

905
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,760
Speaker 2: and maintain a public and a private key pair.

906
00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: It's also kind of like a pain in the ass,

907
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: like just frankly, yes, and the reason it's fallen out

908
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: of favor. If you ever hear anyone talking about PGP

909
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: pretty good privacy, that's kind of the closed source version

910
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: of this. And what people actually use is GPG, which

911
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:54,879
Speaker 1: stands for what you told me what it stands for.

912
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 2: GPG is a new privacy guard. Which the difference is

913
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 2: is PGP is closed so GPG is open source. So

914
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 2: the code for my understanding is that they're functionally the

915
00:53:05,239 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 2: same under the hood, and one is open source and

916
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 2: one is not.

917
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,839
Speaker 1: The reason people have moved to things like signal or

918
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: end to end encrypted email, things like proton mail is

919
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: which is only end to end encrypted if the originating

920
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:26,680
Speaker 1: sources also an encrypted mail provider. But the reason people

921
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:28,400
Speaker 1: have moved to that is not just so that they

922
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: can invite journalists into their chats. But that's going to

923
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:35,279
Speaker 1: be a dated reference soon. It might already feel dated

924
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: to you. It might be sick of people talking about it. Anyway,

925
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,799
Speaker 1: is that signal is just so much easier to use,

926
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: and I actually think that there is a for most

927
00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:48,719
Speaker 1: people in most situations. The ease of use isn't just

928
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:54,280
Speaker 1: a convenience, it's actually literally more secure because it's harder

929
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: to fuck up. It's really easy to fuck up GPG. However,

930
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: as the rest of this piece is going to later

931
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: get into, there might be situations where it's kind of

932
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 1: the only thing going yeah, because you kind of can't

933
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: you can't kill this one.

934
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then also the piece mentioned TOUR, which stands

935
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: for the Onion Router. It's bundled as a browser, but

936
00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 2: it is a way to route your traffic through many

937
00:54:23,239 --> 00:54:26,359
Speaker 2: different other computers that are on the Tour network, so

938
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 2: your where your traffic is coming from and where it

939
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: exits is not easy to track. And then tails OS

940
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 2: is a operating system that runs as a live USB

941
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 2: drive that enables you to utilize Tour without having to

942
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,000
Speaker 2: install it onto a computer. You plug in the USB drive,

943
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 2: you boot it up, and it launches the operating system,

944
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 2: and when you turn the computer off, everything is wiped,

945
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 2: so it doesn't leave data behind unless you tell it to.

946
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, so.

947
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: A lot of tools are brought up. Okay, my other

948
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: big question about this section is they talk about the big, easy,

949
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 1: convenient tools going down. For example, they mentioned proton mail

950
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:17,319
Speaker 1: has been injecting spyware onto people's computers, and to be clear,

951
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,719
Speaker 1: proton mail doesn't really have a they're not really our comrades,

952
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:26,439
Speaker 1: you know, but they're also not American, and so from

953
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: my point of view, and maybe I'm being naive, I'm

954
00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: a little bit like stuff that's not American is going

955
00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: to have like way less of an interest in cooperating

956
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,440
Speaker 1: with a fascist American government. But maybe I'm being naive

957
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: about that.

958
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know about that. I do know

959
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: that proton Mail was involved in some court cases where

960
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,839
Speaker 2: they gave up IPI information, but they didn't give up

961
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,280
Speaker 2: message datic because again they didn't have it, because proton

962
00:55:55,320 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 2: Mail is an email provider that does into encrypted emails

963
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 2: by default, you don't even have to think about it

964
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,760
Speaker 2: if you're emailing another proton Mail account, which is nice.

965
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 2: It's you know, the theme of security in this day

966
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:10,160
Speaker 2: and age is that it's a lot of like you

967
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 2: don't see it, but it's happening behind the scenes. Signal

968
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 2: does this, proton Mail does it, but again it's a

969
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 2: centralized service and we don't know what pressure they may

970
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 2: get in the future.

971
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's a good point, okay. And then specifically

972
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: the talking about Signal going down like that, that is

973
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: kind of one of the key pieces to this particular

974
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: thought experiment is that signal as a centralized thing has

975
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:36,560
Speaker 1: gone down, and I want to ask you about how

976
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: how realistic is that.

977
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: So my understanding is that in the twenty nineteen and

978
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:47,839
Speaker 2: that signal was taken down in Iran, and I think

979
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 2: it had been taken down other times before, along with

980
00:56:52,040 --> 00:56:56,200
Speaker 2: the entire Internet at times in Iran. Iran has the advantage,

981
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 2: at least from the government's standpoint, of having a Internet

982
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 2: that's very easy to turn on and off. My understanding

983
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 2: is that in the United States that'd be a lot harder,

984
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: and so a general Internet going down scenario would look

985
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 2: a lot more like the ISPs themselves, either blocking or

986
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 2: throttling traffic. The cell phone providers are actual easier to

987
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: shut down, and there's an example in twenty eleven during

988
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,720
Speaker 2: the Oscar Grant protests in the San Francisco Bay area,

989
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 2: the Barrier Rapid Transit System BART shut down their cell

990
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 2: phone service on the underground tunnels because they thought that

991
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: activists were using that to coordinate their protests. They were

992
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: able to do this because they own the entire cell

993
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,720
Speaker 2: phone network that was underground. You don't get cell phone

994
00:57:39,760 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 2: networks from above ground, and so people had no service

995
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 2: at that time Signal itself going down, though again I

996
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: don't know the details of how Signal is hosted, but

997
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:52,720
Speaker 2: if it's not distributed enough, you could just shut down

998
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 2: a few of the servers depending on it. But I

999
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:58,560
Speaker 2: do imagine, given the fact that Signal is open source,

1000
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 2: that if something like that were to happen, you might

1001
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,000
Speaker 2: see people be spinning up their own versions of Signal.

1002
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 2: And I think that the piece also talks about like, oh,

1003
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 2: there's these other apps that come up, and who knows

1004
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: if they're good or not, and you would definitely see that. Yeah,

1005
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: there's reasons to assume that, like in crisis, people are

1006
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:16,640
Speaker 2: going to try to figure out other ways to get

1007
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 2: around things, and you'll have to use your best judgment.

1008
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 2: But I don't think it's unwarranted that Signal could go away.

1009
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 2: But I think it would given the fact that we've

1010
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:31,840
Speaker 2: seen also government officials utilizing signal. Maybe that's an advantage

1011
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 2: in the in the realm of like maybe it is

1012
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 2: critical infrastructure in this way where we wouldn't see it

1013
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 2: attacked in that way. And like tour for example, is

1014
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:45,600
Speaker 2: used by the CIA, they have a vested interest in

1015
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,040
Speaker 2: not shutting down the tour network.

1016
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1017
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,760
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm.

1018
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 1: Under the impression that Signal is both an app that

1019
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: you can use and also a protocol like a system

1020
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: by which to do similar things, and that the Signal

1021
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:00,959
Speaker 1: protocol is used another end and encryption.

1022
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 2: Well like WhatsApp for example.

1023
00:59:02,880 --> 00:59:04,000
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, fair enough.

1024
00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:07,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, So WhatsApp uses the Signal protocol, which is the

1025
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 2: encryption protocol that Signal uses. And it's actually the largest

1026
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 2: deployment of the Signal protocol because in the USUS is

1027
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: used a little bit less, but across the world it's

1028
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: much more prevalent.

1029
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: So okay, and then actually it's probably worth distinguishing. Then

1030
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:24,160
Speaker 1: why is Signal more secure than WhatsApp?

1031
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 2: I think it's an issue of trust for me, I

1032
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 2: don't have the details right now, but like WhatsApp is

1033
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:34,160
Speaker 2: owned by Facebook, yeah, and so there there's reasonable, you know,

1034
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: suspicions of like are they keeping things the right way?

1035
00:59:38,080 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 2: That's personal paranoiase. And I think one of my caveats

1036
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 2: to this whole piece is that you all should be

1037
00:59:44,640 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 2: doing your own research. If you're listening to this and

1038
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:49,720
Speaker 2: trying to take advice like this is we express some opinions.

1039
00:59:49,760 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 2: We express some details, but like, at the end of

1040
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 2: the day, you're gonna make your own choices, and maybe

1041
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,600
Speaker 2: WhatsApp is actually the better option for you because you

1042
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 2: have family internationally and having access to that encryption is

1043
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 2: super important.

1044
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I think that kind of covers these two sections.

1045
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,600
Speaker 1: Is there anything I'm missing, anything we're missing?

1046
01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 2: No, I think that that's good. It's always fun to

1047
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 2: talk about this stuff.

1048
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we'll come back next week and we're

1049
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 1: going to talk about the second half of this story.

1050
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,160
Speaker 1: And also, if you're listening and you're like, wait a second,

1051
01:00:22,720 --> 01:00:25,560
Speaker 1: this isn't the barrel, we'll send what it may. That's

1052
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:29,120
Speaker 1: because I interrupted my own book to talk about this

1053
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,640
Speaker 1: because it felt more timely. But within a couple weeks,

1054
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,400
Speaker 1: I'll get back to telling you the adventures of Daniel

1055
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,120
Speaker 1: Okain on book club. But in the meantime, take care

1056
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: of each other because we got it.

1057
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:42,000
Speaker 2: Talk to you soon.

1058
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,400
Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

1059
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

1060
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

1061
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

1062
01:00:55,480 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 1: You can find sources for it could happen here, Updated

1063
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:01,720
Speaker 1: monthly at cool Zone Media dot com Sources. Thanks for listening,