WEBVTT - How Chinese is our Chinese Food? 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.920 Guess what, Mango, what's that will? I've been saving this fact. 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:06.520 I've got a great fact about Chinese takeout containers. So 0:00:06.760 --> 0:00:09.000 you're not talking about that life hack about takeout boxes, 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.200 are you? Wait? I said this was my intro. I've 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.520 been saving this one, and now you're trying to derail it. 0:00:13.560 --> 0:00:16.080 And of course now I'm curious and want to know 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.160 what this life heck is, all right, so so tell 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:21.200 me what it is. So it's pretty cool. It turns 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:24.440 out that Chinese takeout cartons can double his makeshift plates 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:26.880 like this was all over the YouTube's a few years ago. 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.040 But if you pry the wires off the takeout container 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:32.960 and then you unfold the box into like a large sheet, 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.200 it collapses into a giant plate for sharing. I mean, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.240 I guess that's kind of cool, but I'm having a 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.400 hard time picturing that, just seeing like noodles going everywhere. 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.640 But my fact is a little bit different. So did 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.800 you know that the takeout box actually originated as an 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:51.479 oyster pail? According to Snopes, the box was invented in 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:56.000 eight by an American inventor, Frederick Weeks Wilcox, and was 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:58.840 created as this leakproof way to carry around a clump 0:00:58.840 --> 0:01:01.800 of oysters. But since Chinese restaurants were some of the 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.360 first to offer delivery services in the twentieth century, they 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.440 just repurposed the things to carry around tiny portions of 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:11.520 delicious foods. And that's just one of the amazing facts 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:35.480 we're about to share on Chinese restaurants. So let's dig in. Hey, 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.080 their podcast listeners, welcome to Part Time Genius. I'm Will 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.000 Pearson and as always I'm joined by my good friend 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:43.000 Maes Ticketer and on the other side of the soundproof glass. 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:47.040 Wait is he Is he sliding egg rolls onto his fingers? Yeah? 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.320 I think he's making egg roll hands, like you know, 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.360 you just put them on your fingers. I'm wave at people. 0:01:51.800 --> 0:01:55.920 That's impressive. Well that's our friend and producer Tristan McNeil. Alright, Mango. 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:57.880 So one of the things that God is asking today's 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:01.520 big question about how Chinese is Chinese food is this 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.160 great article I saw a vice and it's about the 0:02:04.200 --> 0:02:07.840 first American style Chinese restaurant that opened in Shanghai and 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:10.600 it's called Fortune Cookie. But before we talk about that, 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:13.480 you actually used to work at a Chinese restaurant, right, Yeah, 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.280 that's right. So I waited tables at this wonderful Pan 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.000 Asian restaurant in Birmingham. I'm sure you remember, but it 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.400 was when we were just starting Metal Floss and the 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.360 family who owned it couldn't have been nicer, Like they 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.960 used to fix all the staff this big Chinese meal 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.120 at the end of every night, and I just thought 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.040 it was so caring. But also it's where I learned 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.919 the recipe for light soy sauce. Really, so do you 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.800 want to share that with us? Sure? Well, one night, 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.080 when I just started, it was like my turn to 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.240 refill all the soy sauce dispensers on the table, and 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.919 you know, I found the jug of regular soy sauce 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:47.919 to fill them off with, but I couldn't find a 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:51.280 light soy sauce jug. So I kept looking and looking, 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.000 and when I finally asked a fellow waiter for help, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:56.320 he just looked at me like I was an idiot. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.600 Like he poured the container a half full of regular 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:01.960 soyce us and then filled the rest up with water, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.680 which technically I guess is a lighter soy sauce, but 0:03:05.960 --> 0:03:07.640 I'm not sure I would have figured that out either. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.440 So in your defense, I think you're okay. But were 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:12.079 the meals they cooked you at the end of each 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.320 night different from what they served during the day, Yeah, definitely. 0:03:15.360 --> 0:03:18.200 I mean they used these more adventurous ingredients and they 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:20.520 were a little more authentic Chinese. I guess you'd say, 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.280 m hm. But that's what's interesting, right, I mean, the 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:26.280 first Chinese restaurants in America were launched during the gold Rush, 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.360 way back in eighteen forty nine, so we've actually had 0:03:29.400 --> 0:03:32.080 almost a hundred and seventy years to diverge from the 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:35.680 Chinese Chinese food and kind of forge our own cuisine here. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.080 I like these of we here. I'm not sure I've 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.720 contributed that much to this cuisine. I don't know. You 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.560 worked at that restaurant for like a year or so. 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.280 I feel like you had a real influence though. But 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.320 you know, American Chinese food has been isolated from China 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:50.880 for a pretty long time now, so you kind of 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:53.840 expect it to be foreign to people there. But it's 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.000 also kind of a funny idea to start an American 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:59.560 Chinese restaurant in Shanghai, you know. So I was curious 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.680 about this. Was it just like a novelty thing? That 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.720 they were doing. No, so the co founders Fung Lamb 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.960 and Dave Rossi, they were really serious about this and 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:09.760 they went to a lot of effort, you know, like 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.120 to get the American taste. They use Skippy and their 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.160 peanut sauces and Philadelphia cream cheese and things like they're 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:20.080 crabb rang Goon. They use Motts apple sauces as sweetener, 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:23.160 mainly because that's what a lot of American restaurants used 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.760 to use as sweeteners. That's really funny. So I know 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.440 when my parents first came to the States in the 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:31.640 early seventies, there really weren't a lot of Indian grocery 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.840 stores in the US, so you'd have all these approximations, 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.000 like if you couldn't find Bossmouth the rice, you just 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.040 use Uncle Ben's. Or if you couldn't find these, like 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:42.800 tortillas would work in a pinch, Like there are tons 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.120 of these little tricks that everyone sort of new. Actually, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:47.280 I think I remember in the grocery store not too 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.520 long ago seeing Uncle Ben's both as like for Indian 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.839 dishes and for Chinese dishes. If I'm not Uncle Ben's 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:57.159 got you covered whatever you're trying to cook. But that 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.760 that's very much what happened in America. I mean, you 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:02.320 may you do with what you could, and it's how 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:05.440 dishes like beef and broccoli started to become a staple here. 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.360 But the question is why bring American Chinese food to China? 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:12.919 And the founder's answer was basically, you know, comfort food. 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.080 There were these two Cornell grads who saw this enormous 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.960 expat community there in Shanghai, and their rationale was kind 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:21.760 of like, you know, look when you're having a tough 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.600 time and feeling homesick and all you want to do 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.479 is wallow in the taste of something familiar for a 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.880 lot of people, you know, a carton of orange chicken 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:33.239 and something fried and a cold beer would do the trick. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:36.760 So they were serious about this concept, and they imported 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.400 American brands. They even flew Lamb's dad over from America 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:44.280 to get his grandfather's recipes to get all these flavors. Right. 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:47.800 That's so funny to me, but it really feels like 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.400 a hard sell. It's like, you know, taking a pizza 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.240 hut and trying to open in Italy. Did locals take 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.480 to it or was it just for ex pats? Well, 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:57.719 Chinese people did start coming in. I mean, it's it's 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:00.880 way more appealing than it might sound. And the Instagram 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.120 photos of the food and the plates and the decor, 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.279 they all look pretty amazing, to be honest. But you know, 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.000 the duo did have to alter the branding to the place. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:11.880 So what do you mean about that? Well, instead of 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.039 calling it Chinese food with an American twist, they actually 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.479 had to sell it as American food, something I had 0:06:17.560 --> 0:06:20.080 not really thought about, but it it kind of made sense. 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.360 But they're all these little funny stories along the way, 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.200 Like they had their staff debone the chicken because that's 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:29.320 how we like our General So's, but all the dishes 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:32.280 in China are bone in and people like bones and 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.200 their food for flavor, and so the staff truly thought 0:06:35.240 --> 0:06:38.479 these people were crazy and trying to convince cooks that 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:42.599 stuffing cream cheese into wantons was normal abroad and you know, 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.480 not some sort of abomination. That was a different struggle. 0:06:46.200 --> 0:06:48.400 But the local seemed to really enjoy the food. Is 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.320 kind of this foreign experience, and this comes from a 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:54.280 Vice article, But apparently two petite women came in and 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.400 ordered fifteen dishes, and then after they saw the first 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.880 two entrees, come out just how huge these American portion sizes. 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:05.000 Where they looked at each other and couldn't stop laughing. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:09.080 That's really funny. And I mean fifteen family style dishes 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:11.440 would be like a week's worth of food. Oh no, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.920 cadn't win our When our family orders Chinese food here, 0:07:13.960 --> 0:07:16.040 I think we get two dishes just for like four 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:18.280 or five of us. So it's pretty crazy. But you know, 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:21.400 people were also delighted by the Chinese food takeout Carton's. 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:24.360 They'd actually never seen them before in real life, and 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.680 so they said, oh, that's like the Big Bang theory. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:29.800 You know what what Sheldon eats. I mean, what's crazy 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:31.720 is that the Big Bang theory makes sense to people 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:36.120 in China, but boneless chicken doesn't. Right, So I mean, 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:38.400 I kind of want to eat of this list. I know, 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:42.080 I was actually curious too. But unfortunately Fortune Cookie closed 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.680 back in two thousand sixteen, and it had had a 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:47.360 really good run and and supposedly it was doing fine, 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.680 but the guys just got homesick and they decided to 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:52.160 close up shop. But you know the reason I brought 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:54.520 it up is that the restaurant gets written about in 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.880 a couple of ways. I mean, there's people who laugh 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.240 at the concept and then and people who want to 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:02.600 argue that America in Chinese food is a legitimate cuisine. Yeah. 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:04.560 So to me, when when I think of Chinese food, 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:08.040 it's always American Chinese food. And I actually remember when 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:10.320 I was really little. I was so excited the first 0:08:10.360 --> 0:08:12.960 time I went out for Chinese food and Bombay, Like 0:08:13.080 --> 0:08:14.600 normally when I was in India, we need at my 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.160 relatives houses, and I guess I was tired of eating 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.200 Indian food all day every day, so I was really 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.880 amped to go out. But then we went and I 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.320 was like, what is this? I was promised Chinese food. 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.240 I mean, Indo Chinese is its own delicious thing, and uh, 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.920 if you haven't tried it, it's really great. Like chili 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:36.000 chicken is a dish that you don't get anywhere else. 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:38.960 Go Beventurians, this cauliflower dish, it doesn't exist in China. 0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.760 It's pretty incredible. But there's also one other really strange 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.080 thing I remember about going to Chinese restaurants there, and 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.280 it's that you can actually split your food very specifically. 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:50.440 So if you want to share a soup with someone, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.120 you tell the waiter like one by two and they'll 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.440 take your one order and split it into two bowls. 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.720 Or if you want two bowls of noodles or something 0:08:57.800 --> 0:08:59.480 and want to split it three ways, you can actually 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:03.240 say two by three, and like you can order in fractions. 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.720 How crazy is that? Can you say three by four? 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.640 You just keep going. It reminds me that old snl 0:09:09.679 --> 0:09:11.960 skit where that bank was bragging about, like if you 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:14.320 give us a dollar and you want back eight dimes 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.679 and four nickels, that's fine. If you want eight nickels 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:23.200 and yeah, But Indian Chinese and American Chinese, they they 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:26.000 actually aren't the only hybrids, right, There's a lot more. 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.200 I mean, the truth is the Chinese food, you know, 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:30.320 probably depends on where you were at the time. So 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.840 like there's French Chinese food with salt and pepper frog legs. 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:37.120 There's like a distinct Mexican Chinese food. They have dishes 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:39.680 like baja fish and supposedly it tastes a little like 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:44.200 a fajita. There's Caribbean Chinese, Cuban Chinese, Peruvian Chinese. Like 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.440 they're all over the place, and they're all these distinct 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:49.360 cuisines and I kind of want to try them. All 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.880 that is. That is pretty cool. But let's bring it 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.120 back to America for a minute here. And you know, 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.520 one of the things I didn't realize before this episode 0:09:56.559 --> 0:10:00.000 was just how many Chinese restaurants there are in America 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.280 up so I was looking at the count. Did you 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.439 realize that we have over forty one thousand of them? 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:06.800 I mean, that feels insane to me. Yeah, And just 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:08.880 to give you a sense of scale, you could actually 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:12.480 take all the Starbucks in America, all the McDonald's in America, 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:16.000 then throwing all the taco bells in America, adding all 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.440 the waffle houses in America named some really good food here, 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.920 and you'd still be several thousand short. There's actually this 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.040 great Jennifer eight Lee Ted talk where she talks about 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.599 the numbers and mentions the ubiquity of Chinese restaurants in 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.440 American history. And one of the things she says is 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.600 that the Cuban missile crisis was resolved in a Chinese 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.040 restaurant in d C. And she also said that the 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.640 building where John Wilkes Booth plotted to kill Lincoln is 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:44.160 now a Chinese restaurant, and apparently it's called Walk and Roll. 0:10:45.840 --> 0:10:47.880 I mean that has to be the best thing about 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.880 the place that John Willis Spooth stayed right like that. 0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:53.959 That's now a Chinese restaurant, But I love that it's 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.680 a punny restaurant title. I know you love your ponds. 0:10:56.720 --> 0:10:58.920 But actually there was this article in smith sony and 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.120 about how a lot of China these restaurants have the 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.880 same names. Like if a restaurant has an animal in 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.800 the name, chances are it's a panda or a dragon, 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.760 and they use the same descriptors like golden or lucky 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.480 or the really helpful number one or whatever it. Maybe. 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:17.840 I mean that's partially because Chinese restaurants were like early 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.200 McDonald's or like Irish bars, they have the same field 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:25.160 in general menus because it made the clientele feel at home. Yeah, 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.520 I never thought about that, but it does make sense, 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.880 and and that formula worked and new restaurants often followed 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.080 that pattern. But you know, one of the reasons you 0:11:33.080 --> 0:11:35.040 see garden in the title a lot is that the 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:38.480 Mandarin word for garden actually doubles as a word for money. 0:11:39.000 --> 0:11:41.360 So it's a little hopeful word play that that's pretty 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:44.120 much lost on most of us that don't speak Mandarin. 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:47.319 But Anyway, that's a little off topic. I know you 0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:50.800 researched how Chinese food restaurants got their start, so why 0:11:50.800 --> 0:12:00.240 don't we dive into that a little bit after a break. 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.000 Welcome back to part time Genius. So one thing I 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:11.200 can't stop thinking about is how Chinese restaurants in America 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.840 predate the Civil War. I mean, I can't exactly picture 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.720 Lincoln eating at a Chinese buffet, but you never know, 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.320 it could have happened. Yeah, that's pretty amazing. So this 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:23.600 is what historians have pieced together about the history of 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.760 Chinese restaurants. So the first Chinese came over during the 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:29.480 Gold Rush from Taishan, which is a city in the 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:33.320 southeast coastal province of Guangdong. The area had actually struggled 0:12:33.360 --> 0:12:36.360 through a number of rebellions and some turmoils, so the 0:12:36.400 --> 0:12:39.600 opportunities in San Francisco, especially during the Gold Rush, seemed 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.320 intriguing to them. And it's kind of staggering that most 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:44.680 Chinese in America came from this region for a very 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:47.720 long time. First we Feast, which is a great food site. 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:50.480 They also note that the cuisine of the area was humble, 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.960 so as clariss Away, puts it basic stir fries with 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:57.120 rice and vegetables plus whatever meat was available, and the 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:00.440 flavor profiles veered to the sweeter end. So that basically 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.520 where we got our foundation for Chinese food. That's pretty interesting. Yeah, 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:07.520 And and the first wave of migrants certainly weren't chefs, 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.679 so there's actually a little discrepancy on who they were exactly. 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:13.080 So most of the descriptions you read will tell you 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:14.920 about the chow chowse, which were these hole in the 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.280 wall places for Chinese workers that you could actually spot 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.679 by their little yellow triangular flags hanging outside them. You 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:23.480 could get to dinner for as little as ten cents 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.320 at some of them. Many of them had these one 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:28.160 dollar all you can eat menus, and you actually see 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:31.480 how pliable the food is, like American veggies just get 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:33.319 subbed in for what they had back home. And I 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.680 actually kind of assumed that the first migrants were here 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.280 to work on mines or railroads, but it's actually a 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.679 slightly different story. So there's a professor of Asian American studies, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.079 this guy Himing Lou, who points out in his book 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:49.800 From Canton Restaurant to Panda Express that Canton restaurant, which 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:51.920 was the first Chinese restaurant in America that we know about. 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.600 It started in eighteen forty nine. It was used as 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:58.240 a three person banquet hall. And his point is that 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:00.760 the first wave of people from China weren't like these 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:03.640 cheap day laborers that we might think about, but these 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:08.120 rich dealmakers who like smelled opportunity. He calls the men 0:14:08.160 --> 0:14:11.600 of wealth and ambition, and they were like craters and 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.440 grocers and merchants. You can see it in some of 0:14:14.440 --> 0:14:16.920 the guests lists. Like Lou found that there was a 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.040 dinner for a state senator at Canton Restaurant and it 0:14:20.120 --> 0:14:22.960 was specifically to grease the wheels to allow Chinese to 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:25.760 buy land. I'm actually going to quote the l a 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:29.480 review of books here quote Canton Restaurant was both a 0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.800 meeting place for those emigreates hungry for a taste of 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.800 home and a strategic cultural outpost where Chinese merchants and 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.760 entrepreneurs could meet. It was where they could wine and 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:43.640 dine potential American allies and business and politics. So like, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.880 whatever the case, the food was already starting to feel 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.200 a little more American to make outsiders feel welcome. Yeah, 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.080 and I'm with you on that. I mean, I really 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.080 didn't have a great understanding of what some of these 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.480 earliest restaurants where, nor that they've been around for so long. 0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.720 And I've definitely heard more about the chow chows than 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.920 any of these fancier banquet halls, for sure. But the 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:06.800 chow shows also made like this huge impression, right They 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:09.440 were called chow shows because they were filled with groups 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.680 of hard working people, so like, this was the second 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.240 wave of immigrants who had come in and weren't nearly 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:17.800 as wealthy, and they were just there chowing down. And 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:20.560 while there aren't any like menus or flyers from these 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:24.280 Chinese establishments, there are ads for their competitors. So we 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:27.360 know that competing restaurants started offering free potatoes with their 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.680 meals to beat the Chinese one dollar all you can 0:15:29.720 --> 0:15:33.120 eat places, and obviously this is a strategy that did 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.600 not work. Actually, uh Time magazine found an early account 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.920 of a patron visiting one of the earliest Chinese restaurants 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:42.280 in San Francisco, and what's staggering about it is that 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:45.120 it talks about the cleanliness and hospitality at the place. 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.280 This is the quote the best restaurants were kept by Chinese, 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.440 and that's far from the stereotype that you read about 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.920 like early Chinatowns. So were they were they doing good 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:59.040 business or what? Yeah, I mean, it seems like there's 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.920 this figure from first we faced that by eighteen sixty five, 0:16:02.040 --> 0:16:04.360 the rice industry was worth over a million dollars a 0:16:04.440 --> 0:16:08.040 year and they were charging six dollars a sack, which 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.400 was one of the most expensive items in a California 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:12.960 grocery store. That's about the price of like tea, or 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.080 gin or oil. I mean, the demand for Chinese food 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:18.800 must have been really high around that time. Well, a 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.560 million dollars in eighteen sixty five, I mean that that 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:23.920 was a ton of sales, and it's that's pretty crazy 0:16:23.960 --> 0:16:26.080 to think about. You know. Actually I saw that the 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:30.560 oldest continuously operating Chinese restaurant in america's in Butte, Montana. 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.600 It's called the Pekan Noodle Parlor, and it's been around 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.800 since nineteen eleven. Also, it's on the top floor of 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:39.480 what used to be a saloon, and apparently a lot 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.440 of Chinese restaurants were located on upper floors because the 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.680 rent was a little bit cheaper. Yeah, it's funny, like 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:48.120 I actually walked upstairs to dim some places in New 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:50.360 York and wondered why they didn't just operate on the 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.760 first floor. But I guess this was a trick that 0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.560 was used everywhere for cutting costs. I actually read that 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.880 there were two fifty thousand Chinese who came to the 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:01.520 dates before, and I want to say, I think it's 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:03.720 like ten thousand or twenty thousand of them ended up 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.560 in Montana because all the mines there. Yeah, it was 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.679 definitely a sizeable portion of them. But all right, so 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.600 we've got all these new Chinese immigrants who are hard working, 0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.159 and we've got child child slowly popping up in different 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:17.840 places to serve them. So, you know, it feels like 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:20.240 we probably should take a few minutes just to talk 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.040 about the racism that they faced and and really how 0:17:23.080 --> 0:17:26.760 that played a role in all of this evolution here. Yeah, 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.040 that's right, and this is a sad history, but it's 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.000 ultimately why we have so many Chinese restaurants. Basically, the 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:34.760 Chinese suffered through what a lot of immigrant groups go through. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.240 Like they were simultaneously praised for their hard work ethic 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:42.320 but also scapegooded for taking lower wages and for taking 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:44.720 all the quote good jobs which were fun things like 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.480 working on the railroads or working in the fields. So 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.359 you see attempts to hold them back. There's actually this 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.280 California mining tax that was implemented against foreigners. It pops 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.960 up in the early eighteen fifties, and as this momentum builds, 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:02.159 it turns into the Chinese Exclusion Act of two and 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.359 this is a horrible act, is specifically targeted people from China, 0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:10.080 and it doesn't actually get repealed until ninete. Well, it's 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:11.959 you know, it's sad when you think about how quickly 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:13.879 that we could turn on a group. And I found 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:16.639 this very protectionist rant from eighteen seventy nine. It was 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:19.320 by Senator James G. Blaine of Maine, and in it 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:22.080 he argues that quote, you cannot work a man who 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.280 must have beef and bread and would prefer beef alongside 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.760 a man who can live on rice, and that it 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:29.879 would bring down the beef and bread man to the 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.840 rice standard. Basically, he was saying that the Chinese were 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.480 driving down wages because they needed inferior food to work. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:38.879 And of course, as you could probably guess, he was 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:41.760 an early supporter of that Chinese Exclusion Act. You were 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.600 talking about. I mean, what's crazy is that that's almost 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:46.720 like the most mild put down of what else was 0:18:46.760 --> 0:18:48.920 going on at the time. Yeah, I mean there was 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:52.159 terrible racism. So Jennifer eight Lee talked about how they 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.040 were first called dog eaters and then cat eaters and 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.720 rat eaters, and you know, in her talk she actually 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.880 showed this old box of rat poison that said they 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.800 have to go right under the product name and this 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.239 picture is of a Chinese man eating a rat. And 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.240 there's really no subtlety here. I mean, the subtitle is 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:12.720 very clearly referring to both the vermin and the immigrant. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:14.919 But you know, the funny thing is that good food 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.040 is still good food. And there's that old phrase the 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.600 way into someone's heart is through the stomach, Like I'm 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:23.760 not sure that's biologically true, and no, it's fact checked that, 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.640 but the stomach is kind of one out in the end, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:31.680 and specifically, Chop Suey changed American opinions about Chinese food. Well, 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:33.359 that was part of what was interesting in doing the 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:35.400 research for this week is that you see, there's no 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.760 dish with as much controversy as Chop Suey, and I 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.040 think might now most people have heard that chop suey 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:44.320 was a dish invented in America, and the story goes 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:47.000 that a bunch of American workers decided to go into 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:50.280 a chow chow and their belligerent and pushy, and it's 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.800 closing time, but they're demanding to be served, and so 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.320 the chef uses whatever he's got left in order to 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.520 just stretch this meal. He throws it all in a 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:01.199 walk and they go crazy for it. And when they 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.080